House of R - 'House of the Dragon' Season 2, Episode 5 Reactions | Talk the Thrones

Episode Date: July 15, 2024

What comes after you kill a dragon? Well, Chris Ryan, Mallory Rubin, and Joanna Robinson talk about the latest episode of 'House of the Dragon' to find the aftermath of Rook's Rest and break down our characters' next moves. Hosts: Chris Ryan, Mallory Rubin, Joanna Robinson Production: Jack Wilson, Felipe Guilhermino, Chris Wohlers, Kevin Cureghian, Bobby Gibbons, Jonathan Frias, Ryan Todd, Cory McConnell, Aleya Zenieris, Arjuna Ramgopal, Steve Ahlman, Jomi Adeniran, Abreanna Corrales and Yvonne Wang Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Services not available in all areas. Hello and welcome to Talk the Thrones. We are here to talk about season two, episode five of House of the Dragon. My name is Chris Ryan. This is Ringer Senior Staff writer Joanna Robinson. And joining us, as always, is Haren Hall's guano expert. Mallory Rubin. Before we get started, I hear tell that you two will be appearing at the Ringervverse live on Wednesday

at the L-ray Theater along with Midnight Boys and the whole gang from Ringerverse. If you can hear my voice, if you're in Los Angeles, if you want to make an incredibly expensive trip across the globe to come. Go to the ringer.com slash events or the Al Ray's website to get tickets. Yeah, come hang. Hi. Hello. Hello. How's it going? A bit of a chatty-cathy episode. Not a lot of dragon fights. You love conversation, though. Zero, but I love, you know, the injuries. But like, nothing wild happened in this episode, right? Nothing strange and unusual. What's the headline? Is it sex with mom? Yeah. Or there are secret dragon riders? Why not both? It's definitely sex with mom. I did not have

Damon dreams he's eating out his own mom on my 2004 bingo card and yet here we are. I didn't have you saying the phrase eating out in the first two minutes of the day. Yes, he did. Yes, you did. You knew. Why don't we get straight into the recap?

Because there's actually a lot to turn through here, but I really want to talk about this episode with you guys. How about that? Let's do it, man. All right, let's get to the recap. From the people who brought you the summer blockbuster, let's parade a child's dead body through the city center while his mom and grandmother ride shotguns.

comes the award season contender. Check out this big dead dragon that are incinerated king killed. Sequel's are back in Kings Landing. And is there a doctor in the house? Because the ruler has somehow survived being on fire and falling from the sky, but Morrissey voice, Agon's in a coma, I know, I know it's serious. Really quick.

Oh my God. What's Agan's favorite Smith's record? That's right, it's the queen is dead. Wow, wow. Wow, wow, wow. His armor is fused to his body and he broke his leg, at least broke his leg. That was gruesome. As we all know, because we get a really close up shot of it. Allison is sad.

Amon is amen and Kristen has a hack for getting flesh off of his sword, and it's lemon juice and salt, and I thought that was really helpful. I would be trying this at home. I have a vast sword collection. Between the damp cabbage leaves that went on Agon and the lemon and a salt, were you ready for salad or some kind? Use everything. I am hungry. It's lunchtime.

There you go. The official story being trotted out is that Agon fought valiantly and brought down Reneas. But Allison has a feeling Amon did some unbrotherly shit up there. Back on Dragonstone, Reneera and her war council are still fighting about how to even fight, much less win the war. Jase is doing his own research, telling Bailey he's going to go talk to the phrase at the twins, instead of doing his assigned task of getting Damon back on planet blacks. Speaking of Damon, he's really feeling himself in exile.

Rather than acting as Rainer's emissary, he is positioning himself as the actual king equal to her on the Black's org chart. He finds himself presiding over the Blackwood and Bracken beef. You got it, man. You crushed it. And makes the helpful suggestion that maybe the Blackwood should do some extrajudicial shit to the Brackens in order to persuade them to join the team. Reneira is looking into some unorthodox practices as well, engaging Massaria to open a new front in the war, one of espionage. And the espionage involves sending a chambermaid dressed as red riding hood back to the gates of Ken Glandy. Great luck for Alinda.

Don't know who she is Alinda? Alinda Massey. Alinda visiting Diana? She should wear a name tag. Didn't know who that was. We get a bunch of new faces and some familiar locales. Raina is at the air reach to cash in on Lady Jane's offer of 15,000 soldiers for some dragon protection. The issue of dragon and dragon rider availability is a huge one for the blacks.

Jace's trip to the twins goes somewhat better, but he still has to profit. the phrase that they can have Harren Hall in return for their support, despite the fact that that place is currently occupied. Ah, Harren Hall. Your favorite. Shalach with bat shit, leaking like a sieve, and entirely out of money. That's my favorite Smith album. If you've ever lived in summer in Philadelphia. It's current occupant, Damon is having wet dreams about his mother.

Quite wet. Although I was wondering if it was his sister, I couldn't tell. Or both. I'm going to email Joe and Or Sigmund Freud to explain that. that dream to me. When he is quote-unquote awake, Damon is doing statecraft like only he can, getting lost in the semantics of his title and undermining Reneira in the process. While we're talking titles, the Greens need someone to step in for the semi-permanently recovering Aegon. So Allison throws her name in the ring, but she is shut down by the sausage

fest that is her green council, including Laris and Kristen, the little double cross, who award Amon the title of Prince's Regent? Prince Regent. Prince, Prince, Regent. Yeah. Amen finally gets what he always wanted. Lord Protector. When Allison follows up with Kristen, her paramour sounds like a changed man. Watching your army get turned into a pile of cigarettes, we'll do that to you. I for one love PTSD Chrissy. We get some small folk stuff and find out that things continue to go south for Hugh, are Smithy with the sick kid. The misery heaped on the people is echoed when Alice Rivers confronts Damon over what the war crimes, you know, over the war crimes at the Blackwoods visited on the Brackens. Reneera has,

has her third or fourth dark and stormy chat of the episode, when she and Jace realized they've got plenty of dragons, but not enough riders. So they decide to go looking for bastards, complete with an all-the-presidents men library shot, Claire Kilner. I see you. Much of the rest of the episode is chest-peas moving. Bela gets a grieving cordless to accept Renira's hand position.

Reneera gets Lord Broome to go to Heron Hall and see what's up with Damon, and Masaria's spy arrives at the gates of Kings Landing. Mission Unknown. How excited are you that you have stable espionage and all the presidents that I will be have that you and Andy that's right look I like what I like and here's what I also like I'd like to make a little announcement to our viewers talk the throne's viewers a bit of news I was looking right into the camera I have moved from green curious to green super pack bundler oh ragingly green whoa ragingly green partially because on house of R you and Mitchell joined you and spoke glowingly yeah about the influence of Michael Mann's heat and

on his performance in this show. That was a big moment for you. Not you. But there were a couple of scenes here, all green related where I was like, ride or die. I love these guys. Is it because Agon is no longer in charge

and you're like, A-man's a guy I could follow into battle? I mean, I wouldn't really have much of a choice, would I? I mean, is it just because you think those characters are more interesting than what's going on over in Dragon's time? There's just something about the crackle of the energy

of the council meetings of like everything that's happening over there that is just much more interesting TV to me. But look, I remain. We support you, man. I'm not an decided voter, but I am persuadable. We support you, ride or die, you know, it's a good philosophy. It's a necessary one.

The or die. If you're following Eamon. Yeah. Now, can we talk about my favorite scene of the episode? Yeah, we would love to. Which was your favorite scene of the episode, I said her. Kristen and Alisa in the yard after she's been more or less deposed, not deposed, but she doesn't get the promotion that she was looking for to become sort of the agent. Yeah, yeah.

And Kristen, you know, they talk about the idea that the war's gotten away from them. And that Kristen is somehow protecting Allison from the horror that's about to unfold. How about Chrissy's little voice crack? Oh, man, when he said terrible. Yeah. The show does an incredible job of making us feel empathy for the monsters. Like, I felt when Allison said, I did not give you leave to say my name to a guy who spent many a night inside of her. I felt for him.

I did. I did. Genuinely. So we'll circle back to talk about the council meeting in more detail that led to this great courtyards. And I agree, this was riveting. Let's hit Kristen first, and then we'll hit Allison. So from the Kristen perspective, I mean, our guy is shook. Yeah. Well, sorry. Your guy is shook. Yeah, I mean, he had a really tough dance of the dragons out there, you know? Yes. There are a few things that I loved about this. So one, and he says this, right, when I saw at Rook's rest, their armor melted, there were men walking that were on fire. We have given the war to the dragons.

Kristen has PTSD, and we talked about this last week, waking up to a new world. But I think the really effective part of that is that it's not just PTSD from the horror of Dragon Battle, it's the very personal guilt and culpability that he is carrying because he plotted this with Amid. Now, I think it's worth saying out loud that I think Amid would have done what he was going to do no matter what. He didn't need Kristen's sanctioning, right? But from Kristen's perspective, he now has to carry the fact that he, like, helped plot this with Amon.

They were in cahoots. He enabled Amid to go do this horrible thing and unleash this viciousness on the world, this fire and blood on the world. And I think that, like, the way that Kristen couldn't make eye contact with anybody in the council meeting elsewhere and the sword cleaning meeting, can't make eye contact with Amid. Can't make eye contact with Allison. Like, he knows that Amid waited too long to arrive. He walks up on him with his sword out at the end. And I think in between that, we should assume that he saw what Aymann did in the sky because we get a shot of Kristen watching Aeman fly in and looking up.

I think we should assume that he watched him burn his brother and is like carrying that with him. This is the guy that I've chosen to align with. Yeah, he says I could not say, but like, absolutely he could. He chooses not. I love, like, Fabian Frankel is so good in this episode. Great performance. And you know I'm like the number one Kristen Cole hater, but like I love a character on an arc as well. And so like the fact that he's moving through something is really compelling.

And that decision to not make eye contact with people is something that he's done before when he had his like first small council meeting as hand. And I just love it. It's so good. The discomfort that you feel. The character, you're speaking of his arc, he carries shame with him in so many different arenas of his life. Like in his personal life and his professional life. Like he is kind of, I think being a, well,

A warrior was the one place where he felt like everything made sense and now it doesn't anymore. Yeah. Right? So now he's like, I'm ashamed of what happened in the one place that I thought I knew what was to go. Exactly. This is my arena. I feel like we've seen him have shame but then have this outward sort of bravora or nastiness. And this is the first time that shame has just like permeated everything.

Yeah. It's like heavier than the armor now. That's what I loved about the lemon and salt, right? Because we've heard him talk so much about the fidelity of being in the king's guard, the purity of the white cloak. This is a thing you can't wash out. What has happened here? You can't. And so to the sparing point.

That was a great line. Holy shit. Like in both directions for both of them. Because from his perspective, I think he believes that that's true. I'm the sworn sword and the way that I justify my behavior to myself is that I say I'm protecting someone. It's the righteousness, right? It's that divine protection.

Well, Allison doesn't want to be spared, as she says out loud, right? And this was the great, one of the things that the show across its episodes has done so well since the rupture between Allison and Renera is like show us how similar their experiences are. Right? And so neither of them want to be spared. Neither of them want to be sidelined. But the man around them are telling them that that's the appropriate thing. That's the necessary thing. I think also like very crucially in this specific scene, like again, we'll get to that council scene. But in this specific scene, he's trying to explain to her something we already knew she didn't understand. You love this line from season one when she's, talking to Aymann about his inability to claim a dragon and she says your obsession with those beasts goes beyond understanding because she doesn't get it she's like dragons was a big deal and Kristen's like maybe yesterday I might have slightly agreed with you but I've seen some shit now and dragons it's a whole different world I love her self-delusion in that scene because

she's still talking about temperance and justice and he's like what do you what are you talking about man we left that five miles back on the road this temperance and justice or how about like on the self-delusion front when she says of Amen, do you know what he is, what he has somehow called? Yeah, what's up with that? Somehow Palpatine returned and somehow I raised a psychopath. Wow, I wasn't expecting some Rise of Skywalker in my hot day. I was ready. Let's connect to Allison. Let's go to that Green Council meeting. Because I thought that the way it was sort of depicted was great with the sound fading away from Allison when she realizes what's happening. There is a lot of like, I am realizing what's about to happen if you didn't think that this story was a tragedy.

you probably do now. And she's sitting there. And I thought that the most effective part of that scene, Joe, was Amon's quiet the entire time. He just sits there, stock still. He knows exactly what's going to happen. He knows these guys are going to go for him. And he's like, are we done with the pop circumstance? Can I get up now?

And then he's just like, here's everything. Here's the five point plan. Cut down the rat catchers. That was amazing. As Mal mentioned, like we have been tracking Allison walking through. Renier's footsteps having an affair with Kristen, the Mooney scene that we got before, and then here she is getting passed over.

In this very episode, we hear Reneera say of her counsel, they speak around me, but not to me. And that was so perfectly depicted in that sound design and Allison's scene. I was reminded, I think this is so good on the heels of everyone's thinking about Renice, that scene between Renice and Allison

that we love in season one, when she says, this is what the bars that Renice dropped on Allison. She says, you toil still in service to men, your father, your husband, your son, you desire not to be free, but to make a window in the wall of your prison, how you never imagine yourself on the Iron Throne. There's this, I did not have quoting feminist theory on Talk of Thrones on my bingo car necessarily, but like there's this popular Bonnie Burstow quote that's going around, you know, this current wave of feminism,

but it's an old quote, and it's about this idea of like, the daughter and the father will make fun of the mother together, but it will not spare the daughter of her future being made fun of by other men. Like if you allow yourself with the patriarchy now, it's not going to spare you down the road. And that's what Allison did. She's like, you know, Reneira, you're lactating at the small council table. How embarrassing for you.

She, like, betrayed Reneer over and over and over again. Then she's like, but I think it would happen to me. She's basically sending footpicks to Laris. She's with Kristen. She's tried to raise these truly disturbed sons of hers and keep this council together. The rest of these guys are kind of nincompoops, you know, with the exception of the maister. And she's shocked when Laris and all these guys turn on her. So this was like such a brilliant touch.

Because if we think back to one of those really formative Alice and Laris scenes from season one after Otto, one of all of all those many firings. in the same room. In all of Kings Landing, is there no one to take my side? That was what she said to Laris. And Laris and Kristen have been the closest things fraught and perilous, though those circumstances were, two allies and confidats that she had, and they both pick Amon, both of them.

And Amon, remember? And she's like, all those feet picks for nothing? For nothing. For nothing. And like, it's not just right that they don't choose her, that they don't side with. with her. Yeah.

Like, there are two other elements. There's, who are they siding with instead? She didn't even want Aymand at the fucking council meeting at the beginning. She's like, you don't have a ball. What are you doing here? She's afraid of him. The look of horror on her face. When he says to close the gates.

When they're watching over the wall as Agon's bodies being brought in. She clocks the dagger on his belt. How about the fact that we see him from like just the eyepatch side there? So we can't totally read his expression. That was incredible. The silent moments from you and Mitchell as Aman did in this episode, looking down from the ramparts, looking at Egon's body, the way, like you said, he sits in silence here at the council,

the way that he's looking at the throne at the end when Helena walks in, we have to assume from that that she saw this, and Helena has seen this in one of her dreams and also that price, the usage of price there felt so deliberate because it calls back to Otto saying, you know, worth a thousand times the price he paid, one of my other favorite lines for Vagar. But the other thing on Allison was like, the moment when Laris says, I agree your grace, it must be Prince Eamon. what would it say if in response to Reneer's crowning, we raised up a woman of our own. A woman of our own foul, obviously.

But she has to contend with what, like, what Joe was saying. We had a similar conversation. We were like, should we do talk to Thrones with Chris? You know, should we align ourselves with the patriarchy? And, like, now we will live in the bed that we have climbed into. But can I just say, though? She propped up and on. What if Flores kind of has a point there, like politically...

On the man's perspective. I'm just joking. But seriously, as a father of cats. Show me the lie. Show me the lie that, like, Laris is not, like, he's not like, yeah, he's like, he's like, look, like, we just made the whole point that part of Renier's illegitimacy is based on. But that she has to reckon with. But the point is, the reason that this is the case. I hear you, we all understand that you don't think women can rule, but, like, no.

The point is she would be queen regent. She wouldn't be queen, and there have been queen regents before in the history of Westrose, in the dark. Gargarian line. So she's not saying, put the crown on my head, I will rule. She's saying, I will rule the regency while, while Agon is a puddle of goo in his bed. And that was the Tynar-a-N-era, though, because, like, Iron Rade's like, peace time, sure, but war time? And then Alfred is like, well, the Farah, gentler sex, I never doubted your intellect in your humor and your charm. But, like, during war, I would kill him. Upsetting. Or not me, I would kill Sir Al. This is very much like a second son episode.

for Amon's a second son, Damon's a second son, Corliss's his second son, et cetera. But to paraphrase Tyrion, all women are second sons in their father's eyes, essentially, right?

Like, they are all treated the same, which is that you don't have inherent worth. Sure. You have to prove yourself. And for women, as Reneer points out, when she's like, I was never, they never put a sword in my hand. I mean, Renner did a bunch of stuff

when she was, she killed a bore and smeared herself in blood. We all saw it. She read a lot too, so that's good. Yeah. So, yeah. Also good. She did. She was like,

Sort of. Alice was like, pay attention to the text on the printed page, and she's like, I want to go, like, fly and I never jest about cake. Yeah, well, now all the time with Mike or Fisch will come in here, is what you're saying. Now, I want to talk a little bit about unconventional warfare, because obviously this gets brought up. Let's do it. Kristen talks about it with Allison, but you've also got Damon sanctioning the Blackwoods. Kidnapping children, is the implication there? Among other things.

A more intimate form of warfare and vengeance and persuasion. Okay. Persuasion. And Masaria talks about using disinformation and basically getting the small folk to turn against the Greens in King's Landing as an act of war in and of itself. We're actually getting a pretty broad scope of the conflict here, right? Like, it's an interesting, I mean, for the lack of set pieces or action in this episode, a lot of... Yes, we had action.

Yeah. It was, again, Damon going down on his own mother. But what did you think of the sort of the non-Dragon styles of? combat is. I love the comp that you're drawing there to between the two sides and there were a lot of

similarities like Damon telling Willem Blackwood there are things that the Crown can't be seen doing and Masaria in essence makes the same pitch. And Will and Blackwood's like, okay, should we raise your banner while we're doing it? Is it? Sly or flag? Is that? So this is

class. I mean it's a great Damon episode. There's a lot of parts but this is just classic Damon to me. Like doesn't And he did nothing, learn nothing from the blood and cheese mistake. Right? And we see how the aftermath of blood and cheese is informing a lot of things in this episode. Like we'll talk about parading my beloved sweet mailes through the streets and how that went very differently from what Kristen was intending. But Damon, the impact of what happened with blood and cheese on Reneer's claim is clear.

Like one of the river lords at the end, right, when Damon's like, I'll have the man who said that brought before me. It's half the kingdom. That's what people think. And so now these atrocities in the Riverlands, the area he needs to win to their side, they once again are like, look at the atrocities that you have ordered, that you have sanctioned because he's too careless to lock in the details. Meanwhile, like, you're a character, to be clear. Jace can have a cheeky little cup of wine and like, you know, Jesus's diplomacy is just astonishing.

Top tier. I have a quick question for you while we're talking about the River Lords and Damon. Yeah. Chris, have you had to guess? Yeah. What time do you think they got Damon out of bed for that meeting? The hour of the wolf. What time do you think that is?

2 a.m. So you have 4 a.m. Pretty close. Like 4 a.m. meeting. It's gray, right? Like, it's turning. Do you take a 4 a.m. meeting if you want to, like, you know, exert your authority on a region. Do you show up for that 4 a.m. meeting?

No, I don't. I think that that was sort of the breaking point of, I mean, here's my big Damon question. We can kind of get into this now if you want to with what he's up to at Heron Hall is how much of his decision-making and his attitude, Joe, do you think, is rooted in the sleepless fugue state that he finds himself in the majority of his screen time. So we don't know, I mean, yeah, like he's doing some chores, but for the most... Yeah, but for the most part, he's rolling around in bed, not eating, kind of not sleeping, Alice is in his mind showing him things. He's having sex with his mother. Yeah. What's up? What's going on?

Great question. Incredible run-down. Here's a key part of it all, which is that no matter what is happening, Damon is never going to tell anyone what happened because a line that is so funny now in Fire and Blood is about Alice. Whatever her powers,

it would seem Damon Targaryen was immune to them for little is heard of this supposed sorceress whilst the prince is held at Heron Hall. Because Damon was like, I was fine. Oh, I was fine. I had a great time. Took some cool meetings with some river lords. Definitely ate that goose.

It was fine. I think it's entirely her just cooking his noodle. I mean, I'm curious how much time you spend on the Damon fan sites because I think this episode is going to be very... I'm too deep in the Chrissy Cole. Oh, yeah. You're just like, is it, is the Tumbur, like, lemon and salts dot tumbler.com? Ever since Fabian Frankel did the, like, Philly Cheesesteak thing with the cast on Instagram, I was like, this is my home here. But he did say it was on a baguette.

Baby saps. We'll get there. Genuinely great video. But the Damon fans who have taken some exception to some of the things that people who work on this show have said about Damon, I think are not going to enjoy this episode. What are you have Damon fans? Like people who are like Damon's the goat? Like what's going on? Well, I don't necessarily need to claim this fandom.

But here's what I will say I think is most compelling about Damon. He is ever a walking, like contradiction. say that, yeah. Right? And so when you think back to season one and his interactions with Vassaris, his brother, there was intense loyalty and this idea of I should sit on the throne. So what we saw from him in this episode where he was just like, it should be me, I should be king, Reneer can't hack it, all this stuff. Like the lack of loyalty to Reneera here, I think is out of character for Damon. And I am willing to let the season play out and see how it goes and see how much he can either break out of that from Alice

or how much it consumes him or how much they're changing his character entirely, I don't know. But do you agree that it felt like slightly out of whack? I mean, Damon's not a good guy. Yeah. And Damon does think he would make probably a better rule than everyone around him,

but I don't think he would be that overtly disloyal. Yeah, I did have a similar reaction. And I think actually because it felt so extreme, maybe this will not be the case. But it makes me feel like more certain that this is a little midlife crisis, little like, I'm feeling it out thing that he's working through. He's moved out of the house. Yeah.

Like, you know, the new place isn't that. Yeah. He still hasn't been. Sometimes I try living in the ADU and I see how it goes, you know? But like, the thing that I was like really, I was really struggling. He's like putting together the IKEA furniture in there and all. Like, okay. Okay.

Too many, like, bolts. Yeah. So, okay. No, no, no. It's a really cool spot. It's getting into shape, but I'll have you guys over soon. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just got to get the bad shit out here.

I got to get the Apple TV to work. So, okay, this was like a little moment, but I loved it. When the brackens say fuck off. Uh-huh. We get the great shot of Keraxies lowering. It reminded me of like Drogon coming down behind Danny with Varis. And you just are prepared for a burning and it doesn't happen. And you cut to Damon and he's like, I can't believe.

I did not think they would be so eager to die. See, now, if he had actually burned them, it would have been the funniest moment in TV history if he was just like, huh? I didn't think they'd be so quick to die. But like I love this because when he says to, because, you know, Will and Blackwood goes on his great, like, you know, he's like the brackets are hatched from the deepest of the seven hell.

It's wonderful stuff from Willam until the horrible things that he does. Very. Which you endorse. No, I do not. Very, like, reminiscent of the mountain under Tywin's orders in season one of Game of Thrones. The Riverlands is always getting in. I would not live in the, I would not.

I would not. The potion from the witch, nor let her salve my opened wounds, and I would not live in the riverlands. We're all going to door. Yes, exactly. When war starts me all over. I personally still, I think, want to go to the reach. But when they reject him, it makes him want them even more. This just felt like the true, the true Damien.

The real insight into him. He says, like, they would rather burn than succumb exactly the kind of man I need. Of course Damon likes the rebel. Oh, yeah. Of course Damon likes the one who's not going to listen, not going to. do the thing that they're told. He's the bold robe. He's basically the Javier Bardemian

from Dune to. It's like he does not that just means he's more of the body. Of course the brackets are too humble to say that they're Chris, can I answer all your burning questions about Damon Targaryen's mom? Because I know you have. Oh yeah, so what the hell? Okay, Alyssa Targaryen. So basically just so we have Sigmund F

coming in on Zoom? Is he here? Sigma F. It's not like the Zoom names are. We've had a couple of these sort of, like, dreamy reveries from him. Some have involved Alice, some have involved Amund. But now we had, I thought, blonde unknown. I had to Google, like, what did Damon's mom look like, but also was his mom and his sister, you know. Definitely his mom.

He says my son. She says my son. And then Alice later's like, what a shame you never got to know your mom? And we cut right to this very vivid sequence after Bela and. they were talking about. And Renera are talking about Alyssa Targary. Because Alyssa is to ride Maly's. Yeah.

So we were, Alyssa had to be on his mind because Maly's just died. His mom's dragon just died. So she's on his mind for that. And I guess a number of other Freudian reasons. But let's talk about Alyssa Targary. The, what does his mom look like question I think is interesting.

Because actually this is not what his mom really looks like. She has dirty blonde hair, mismatched eyes and a broken nose. Hell yeah. I'm with you, man. She's extremely rad. She's like, she's just like really tough. Her nose got broken because like a,

a sword hit it when she was sparring when she was a kid. So she's like a very much like a little a little Ria, a little Reneira essentially, which makes that extra creepy and fun. But I like this idea because he was three when she died. So he didn't ever know her. So he's like,

maybe this is my mom looked like. She took him and Vassaris when they were babies for a flight. On Maly's. Wonderful stuff. Let's talk about Alyssa Targaryen and rioting. Sex lover? Yeah.

I also pulled these exact passages. Unsurprisingly, we got on the same page here. I had no idea I'd open this door. Okay. So, Alyssa Targaryen, when she got married at 15, cool age, to her brother, cool, Baylon. Baylon, who has come up before? Yeah. A lot of mentions of the parents are.

You burned Aaron Hole? No. That's it. Wow. Stunning silence. Oh, my God. But Ulf, the White, the drunken guy, when he was like, I'm a bastard of someone. It's Baylon.

what he said, right? Okay. This is boast. So here's, we just have to read this verbatim because George is really on one here, right? He says, the bride's sounds of pleasure could be heard all the way to Duskendale, yeah, with her brother. Okay. A body, a wench as any barmaid in King's Landing. And she says, I mounted him and took him for a ride and I mean to do the same tonight. I love to ride, she says.

I would like to share one more. Yeah. Flying was the second sweetest thing in the world. she would off say. And the very sweetest thing cannot be mentioned in the company of ladies. Oh, Lisa!

You just read this stuff. And yeah, we have a great time. Join us. And the water's warm. I think even better. And relatives are fucking in it. When she claimed Maly's, her brothers claimed their dragons

when they were 17 and 16. She's like, I'm going to do it at 15. Fuck you. I'm already married, so whatever. I get a dragon. She claims Maly's, rest in peace. And she says, quote, red maidens, the two of us,

but now we've both been mounted. this chick rules. She's the best. Then she shows up in Damon's dreams. Okay. Yeah. So any guesses, to your point about Damon maybe deviating from book characterizations or maybe Damon's standum preferences, how much of Damon's behavior is related to starving sleepless?

You're like back to my question. No, I know. I'm not super normal digression. I honestly have no idea what to say to it. Well, I do think essentially we did have a season one exchange. I am going to answer your question. But we did have a season one exchange between Vassaris and Damon, where Vassaris says, I will not revisit this is a bait.

You were always mother's favorite. It's no great mystery. You were our mother. She had no regard for custom or tradition rules. And I, sadly, was no great warrior. So it is important to Damon, this idea that, like, his roguish, you know, impish, I don't follow the rules. Yeah. I tell a bunch of Riverlanders to kidnap each other's children.

But don't tell me about it, is what mother always loved best about me. Like, you have to stand there and have a harrowing fight with your wife who whispers, you're pathetic. Great stuff when you're in your... Alfred's like, any message for Damon? I'd like to continue our last conversation, which concluded with me whispering, your pathetic game. But what would you rather hear?

Your beloved brother who never asked you to be his hand, say, cast you out from his kingdom time and again. Your wife and niece, say, it was because he never trusted him. to you and I can't trust you either or have your mother whisper to you in your dreams. You were always the strong one. You were always the strong one. The finest swordsman, the fearless dragon rider. Yeah.

You were made to wear it. Yeah. The crown he put on Viseras's head, the crown he put on Reneer's head. Complex guy. I like to, because I prefer my Damon to be not fucking his mom, but also I prefer him to be. Brave take you. Yeah. You have to be said.

You have to be the courage today to share that with us. But like, because I prefer him to be. And Y.T. op-ed. I love you, Damon Targaryen, but stop fucking your mom. Riverlands. Exactly. The Chiron. But to your question about, like, how much of this is Alice is witchcraft messing with his head or sleeplessness, I'm hoping it's a lot.

Because this does feel out of character for him. I prefer him to be, yes, the worst, but a complicated worst that makes him fascinating. And this is just like, he's just like, because they made Chris, he's just like, because they made Kristen complicated in this episode? It's like they had to make Damon uncomplicated and terrible. I'll tell you what almost interested me more than Damon's sex life with his mother. Wow. Impossible. Tell me. I wondered whether Sir Simon was using the war as an excuse to do some long-needed moments. Oh, definitely. Yeah. He was like, oh, by the way, like, we need to get this done. And then there's like some spackling work.

I got the water in the kitchen and I've activated the forge. Can you ask the queen to foot the bill? No, I will guarantee the payment. is under my command. When he mentioned the guano and all the other strong dudes who were in the background of all of those scenes, just like look up. Sensational stuff. Great stuff. Fantastic. It's an active, vast repair undertaking? Yeah.

Like, I think, I don't know. Do you even bother to repair hair and haul? I would simply not. But Heron Hall comes up as an object of desire for the phrase. Did you like being back at the twins? I wanted to ask about this. First of all, why do you? you have, like, if you're running

Westrose, right? Yeah. Yeah. Why would you do it from Kingslanding or wherever, Dragonstone, when you could just be in the Erie and be like, no one could get here, except for a dragon? Give me ten good men and climbing spikes and I'll impregnate the bitch, as the poet of our time. Braun once said, you know? And we hear Lady Jane.

So we're going to the Erie first. Yeah, let's just talk about the Erie first. Lady Jane, we hear it, right? Bela, right? Raina. Lady Jane, Erin. Yes. And so, Of course, we saw the kids, right, went up. So Jaff is there, Tiraxes is there, Storm Cloud is there, Agon and Vassaris. Oh, that is a name for a king. I can't help it, I'm sorry.

Do you think Jane served up any lemon cakes? It's a great question. This is part of what was great about going back to the Erie and to the twins is like so many, you mentioned, Lemon King's just so many Game of Thrones associations for us. But I think the show can rely on us porting into the future of the timeline with our Thrones associations. and then we get some nuggets here about the past. So like when Jane Aaron says to Raina, like, you know, I dislike feeling this way,

which of course Raina agrees with. She's there to try to get those 15,000 men. She's following through on what Rainier asked her to do. Nobody feels good about this, and I thought it was really effective to show us how the fear, we're gonna talk about the procession again with the head and the small folks soon,

but like the fear is seeping through the realm. And so you have a moment like, yeah, it's impregnable. By the way, the redesign of the Erie and the bloody gate looks incredible. Like, this is what the area should look like. The, yeah, sure, it's impregnable unless you're on dragonback reality is something that everybody has to get into. Vesnia, who once again comes up numerous times, right? Vesenae is mentioned at the end between Reneira and Jace.

A lot of Vesna mentions. Don't do what Vesnia did. It would get you canceled now. That was a long time ago, mom. I wouldn't. Oh, man. Great stuff. So, yeah, Vesenia during the conquest, Flew Vagar, down.

into the Erie and took little sweet little Ronald Aaron just like sitting there on her knee I got in I have the air to the veil here bouncing them on my lap and like you will bend the knee so dragon power is just a different thing and that's that would be the case for everybody like when they get to the when they get to the phrase like I'm afraid of vagar I love that moment when jace is like what about my drag vermax is right here yeah but vermax is so cute I love seeing vermax um wonderful I do think it's really fun to go back to the area and be reminded of of the Bloody Gate, the moon door, the sky cells, like all this cool shit that happened at the area. Didn't see any, like, fully grown children nursing on their mother's teeth. I would say that Jane Aaron did not make as much of an early impression as Lisa Aaron did, but there's still time for her.

And Jane Aaron is a character who several times her male relatives tried to take control of the area from her. She's like, I've been through it. I am an Aaron, so I'm related. They're related. You know, so I like, I support Rainer this way, but I did ask for a real dragon and not, what does she say, still wet from the egg. This is horseship. I'm sorry.

The way that the people are talking about dragons in this episode, you, as Raina rightly points out, you got two. Tyraxies and Stormplot are there. There were five dragon keep. They're carrying Tyraxies great. They go pretty fast. Show some patience. Yeah.

Yeah. Show some patience. Dude, sure. We saw. Drogan when he was the size of a like lap dog. That's true. That's true. But if any adult dragon shows up, we saw what happened to ARAX at the end of last season.

So we don't want that happening. Can I just, uh, the reason I liked that, uh, Jane scene was because throughout the episode, you've got all these interactions, all these sort of negotiations of, yeah, hey, right, so, uh, in a, in a non-game of Thrones, George Martin style story, it would just be blind allegiance to this flag or the other flag, right? Like, and that's what, we would, we would have this kind of fairy tale version of, of loyalty. Right. And every interaction in this show, and usually in Game of Thrones, is, yeah, I'm loyal,

but, like, I'm going to need this for the loyalty. Yeah. I'm loyal, but I'm going to need you to wipe out, like, a decades-long beef with another family, or I'm loyal, but I need an Air Force. Or I'm loyal, but you have to pay for it, you know, like, and I'm like... Or I'm supposed to be loyal to more than one person. Exactly, yeah. They make you swear and swear?

They do make you swear and swear and swear. On the warfare front and like the phrase and the aries and the airy and all the things we got, can we just quickly say that we got two mentions of Jason Lannister's forces amassing from the West, and we were reminded that your best friend Craig Stark promised a bunch of gray beards to come down. So they keep reminding us of these armies that are headed towards the center of the map. Once again, I do think it bears repeating that Jace secured the north. Sure, they've got to figure out how to get him down. He secured the north.

The veil. He secured the veil, and he just secured the crossing. Like, put that up against anything anybody else has done to this point in the story. Seriously. I said Damon chop five pieces of wood. Okay. That's the real Tony Stark, like, don't take from my pile. Jace goes to this incredibly photogenic bridge at the twins, right?

Talks to the Tullies. The phrase. The phrase. Yes. And says, I need you to basically. bend the knee and they're like, well, how about Harron Hall for them? Why Harron Hall? Because it's a big

castle. That's haunted and full of bad shit. But it is important. Yeah, it's big. Well, the phrase are like upstarts and strivers and that's their reputation. Like this is why all the way in the future in Game of Thrones, what do the phrase want to do? They can't wait to get the Tully's like out. They can't

wait to get River on, right? They always want to collect and improve their standing and improve their worth. I think again, the show is banking on us bringing those associations. Like the terrible things that we have seen happen there. It's gonna make us nervous for Jace. There's a plate of food on the table, like, guess right? Bread and salt. Yeah, like how can it not make us think of everything horrible that we've witnessed there?

As soon as you say, will it go a better way? Will it go? Yeah. As I don't say a phrase, I think people are like, get anxious. No, thank you. Yeah. And even like when they were like, okay, you're asking us to do something that are, the Lord, the Lord Paramount on the Trin, the Tullies, have not given us leave to do, right? And there's that great exchange about like, well, Jace reprised that with like, what about the queen?

Right? And it reminded me so palpably of the Walder Cat exchange from season one, right? Because he basically says that, yeah, the little television program you might have heard called Game of Thrones. It's like it's the exact same exchange and it builds toward that great stark telly Lattister Barathean. Give me one good reason. Well, I actually waste a single thought on any of you. So I think to your point, people do have to have a reason to us. But the thing about the dance is like we're watching it spread.

The Lannister call out is a great one. The map is widening. We've had mentions of the reach, the high tower forces. Like nobody feels safe, whether you're inside the locked gates of King's Landing or further away. You do ultimately, like, you probably are going to have a moment where you have to make a choice. Will it be the same choice as everybody else in your region, though? Well, that's why the Blackwoods and the Brackens have been such an effective way into that question for us. Because it's like, this is happening.

I imagine this being duplicated. They're just using the war for the crown as a convenient excuse to work through the stuff they've been fighting about for centuries. So maybe people use this to just further their own agenda. Maybe it has nothing to do with whether they're team green or team black. Speaking of making a choice, Corliss has to choose whether to become Hand of the Queen or not. By the end of this episode, he spends most of it grieving and moping kind of being little cringing. Grieving and moping.

His wife just that way. Give him a minute. He wasn't, like, but before, like, when Renice was about to fly off, he was just like, I got to go get these barnacles off the boat. You know, like, I mean, the time was then. What did you think of Coralus in this episode? Bala talks him into taking the hand of the queen or at least accepting that, that gesture. What did you make of his episode?

I really liked, I loved when Baila was like, she wasn't just your wife to lose. Like, she was bigger than that. She was a Targaryan princess. That was great. I loved when Bela gave us a free ad for the young Corley's spinoff show when she, like, recapped all of his adventures. I thought this was a really interesting depiction of Corley's here. We were wondering, as book readers, we were wondering how this would play out because in the book, it's not that Renera offers to go and they talk her down and then Rainey's goes. It's that Reneira is, again, off the table, not playing the game right now.

And Reneas goes, and Corley's blames Reneer for that. And he's like, it should have been you. Like why was it my wife? It should have been you. You're the queen. You should have gone. So with absent that, then we're left instead of the rage. I mean, he does say, has she not asked enough of my family, right?

But we're left with the sorrow. And that's a much more interesting note for a character like Corleys, who has lost a son, has lost a daughter, has now lost his wife. But I still, I think this is the most broken we've seen him. Absolutely. And I think it's worth keeping in mind that if you look at every other character on this show, one interaction does affect the next. Absolutely. So he might be returning to Reneira with a slightly different opinion of Reneer. I mean, just because he's taking this job does not mean it's like...

Totally. But it's a smart call of Reneira's too, because when he walked into the Black Council last week... To the rivals, baby. But they like, they hop too. because they were like, we need masculine energy. And she's like, I will be the queen. But I understand that I need at least one dude in this room who's on my side. And maybe Corley's can be that person.

Yeah, it felt really important when she said and handing over. Now, I probably would have gone myself to ask him to me my hand rather than having bailout to have. She has reading to do. But I did think that I do not wish to stand alone line was really striking. It's like very Jora to Danny. No one can survive in this world without help coded. but also like we've talked a lot over the last couple episodes about how lonely and isolated everybody feels.

We had that mirror shot, right, cutting from Damon leaning against the fireplace mantle into Renera leaning against the fireplace mantle. Did you want a split screen? You're like, give me the fall guy, split screen. I have a split screen in my heart in my mind. So like Renira can carry more than one truth in her mind at once, right? She can say like to Jace, I'm proud of you.

And also I resent the fact that you can go do the thing. You can like thwart and ignore my organization. and do the thing that I am not being allowed to do, that I understand on some level I shouldn't do, look what just happened to Egg on. Aged just, like, right? But what do we as Game of Thrones chance programmed to expect from our heroes and our rulers?

Like, John, on the front line, Rob, on the front line, Danny, on the front line, Tyrion, there leading at the Blackwater, right? Sometimes it's his own way. Like, who doesn't, yes. But I love that, like, if we think back to Young Renera, it was another moment where I thought our time with, like, the younger versions of the characters felt really fruitful here. You know, Viserra saying, like,

I didn't give you leave to go to Dragon So, but she didn't, right? Or, like, you should not deprive yourself. And that's why Damon's, like, current crisis as much as I am not on his side in any of this that he is experiencing over in Harren Hall. On the, like, who's more interesting? I kind of understand where you're coming from. I do want to shout out Harry Colette as Jace,

because I kind of, I really like his, like, really pleased with himself smiles. Yeah. He's like, I did a thing. Guess what? I got you the phrase. I did a thing. I did a thing.

But I'm not, okay, so I'm not on Damon's side, but, like, if he thought he was marrying the teenager that he was grooming, and instead he got, he got this woman who is taking, you know, is following her father's model, more than his model, then he's like, this isn't the marriage I thought I was signing up for, perhaps. The episode ends with, we get Alinda. Yeah. who's Masaria's emissary, her spy, I guess. Now, was she always a spy or did she graduate from chambermaid to spy?

I kind of got the sense that she was always a spy. She's, you know, Reneura's personal handmaiden, right? But Masaria had all these agents in the castle, and Larius, like, killed them all, but Alinda had already left for Dragonstone when that happened. So this idea that like... Everybody's like, oh, hey, it's Alinda, right? Like, Alinda and Diana, like, perhaps they were always working for Misaria. That's what it seems like.

Too bad Talia couldn't get in on this. I'll miss her. I'll miss her. In the beginning of the episode, when they're dragging Malyus' body through the city center, I think they're expecting more of a Philly Mummer's Day parade vibe. Yeah, like the one that grew up in a little baseball there. They thought they were doing an auto and they were not doing an auto. Exactly.

Otto never would have done this because Otto, unlike Allison, does understand the value of a dragon, right? We've talked about that in many times. The serious PR miscalculation. Yeah, it's bad. They really thought they were doing something. Abomination. Reneer will answer this.

Like, Reneer is going to take vengeance for this on us. This is a black omen. I thought the dragons. I thought the dragons was gods. Like, this idea that, like, this idea that a dragon is, the dragon is a Targaryen power. Yes.

Dragons are godlike, infallible, cannot be killed. All this sort of stuff. This is, and then they're like, like, oh, guess what, you can kill one. It's just meat is what Hugh Hammer says. That was upsetting and disturbing. Yeah.

Sweet little melee is like still smoking as they, man, the perception? The CGI flies that horrible. What's more upsetting or disturbing? Oh, God. Is it a CGI dragon being dragged through the streets? The answer is that. Whatever comes next. Or Agon being a pile of goo with metal fused to his body that they have to like slowly

remove. Or Damon Targian. That was just, that's like, you're like, yeah, you're watching Game of Thrones. Fucking his mom. Not since Razz's turnip cart. Have my eyes been so drawn to do a carrier? Do you think Chris remembers what happened on Raz's turn up cart? I don't remember Razz's turnip card.

No, like last peep. Exactly. Last speed for Thea and she left the north. No? I do. I do. A different red queen. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Brought egg on back, like, in this little weird. covered with rags, brutal stuff for him. And he was just looking at him being like, yeah, wild. Couldn't be me. But like the way that, oh man, so, and Masaria, it was interesting to like, she had the measure of this, right? Kristen Cole made a mistake.

Yeah. And it's the combination of like that God's point, right? Well, if this can happen to a God, what could happen to us? We're just mortals. But also the blockade and like the crush of the blockade. You guys are doing this. The moldy citrus. Yeah.

The moldy situation is distressing to see. We're hungry. Also, very significantly, Forrest Frey, one of the fray says the winds rising, winter's nigh upon us, aka winter is coming. The blockade is starving everyone. They try to leave. They lock the gates. Right.

Or while I was like, we should start paying attention to the small folk and having a suggestion is to pin them in. Lock the gates. I thought that the way that Masaria said to the discontented rumors or feed, and was just encouraging Rainier to not underestimate because Reneer is like, whoa, are they going to be able to break shields and tear down stone?

It's like, yes, right? Like, it reminded me of... Thousands. Yeah, it reminded me of the high sparrow saying to Olena, like, you are the few, we are the many. Well, and I think this is what we were thinking about this, this idea of the... What?

It worked out well for the high sparrarrow. Well, but he did gain power through the masses. He's a few came back. It didn't work for anyone in that conversation, ultimately. But like this idea. of when we watched that procession with good old baseball head to Harris, we were watching it, knowing something like this was coming because this happens in the book that they parade Mayleases's head through the street and we're like, you're playing with fire.

You think you can take advantage, use to your advantage, the fear and the anguish and the high emotions of the people, but that can turn on you so quickly. Yeah, because if you're starving and they're like, hey, check this out. Do you guys even know what you're doing? because not only can you not feed us, but it seems like you're now tempting fate with, like, bringing down dragons. All right, speaking of dragons,

let's do the drag math before we get out of here. So, first of all, wait, wait, should we ask Chris if he can name any? Let me just see if I can do this, okay? King's Landing. Okay, right? Yeah, so you're going, okay. There's Vagar and Dreamfire, right?

Right? Wow. And then Tresorian? Yes. Are you, Chris, what's happening? Oh my God. Darren's dragon? That's Darren's Dragon.

Okay. Then on Dragonstone. Well, hold on, quickly. Yeah. So you didn't list Sunfire, which, like, this episode, Long in the Dying is what Kristen says. And then Renira says that, like, one of the dragons that Mali is of the two was slain. I'm, like, going to hold off until we see a...

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't, this... Hashtag Sunfire, though. Yeah, until we see it and know for sure. Okay, you got... And the Dragons said there's Syracs? Mm-hmm. Yeah.

And is there Viramax? Yes. Yeah, that's Jason Dragon. And then Keraxes is at Heron Hall. That's right. That's demons. Yeah. Tyraxies and storm clatter at the veil.

What is happening right? I don't know. And then there's a bunch of Alice Rivers stream? There's a bunch of free agents, right? Yeah. Well, you forgot moon dancer. You forgot Moon Dancer and Bela. Vermethore, Silver Wing, sheepstealer, the cannibal, the gray, ghost, and sea smoke, right?

What the fuck just happened? She gave me all the dragons before you sat down. I was like, this is insane. Actually, Mallory's head explodes. Did I eat the whereward? I'm like an Alice potion. You're doing a good job. You did a pretty good job, I thought.

Incredible stuff. So of course, we have seen Vermethor very briefly, right? That's the dragon, Vermithor, the former mount of your guy, Jaharis. Let's just actually keep it math, math. Who's got more dragons? You just listed them. Who did it sound like had more dragons? The blacks.

Fly a lot. But greens have Begar. Bigar. Right, exactly. So the math is kind of skewed. Dreamfire is on the green team, but that's Helena's dragon. We've literally never seen her ride it. And they do say of Tissarian, I mean, Darren and Tessarian are not in the show yet.

And Iron Rott said earlier in the season, your brother, Darren's dragon nears fighting age. So like not all of the dragons. And Ryan Condal says that Darren is not a dragon rider yet. So they've got Vagar, a roasted toasted sunfire, and I'm not really sure it exists Dreamfire. And a probably coming in season three, Tissarian. Right. Like, you know, we thought we saw little dragon egg kilns under the twins' beds. Like, you know, you can think about eggs in the future.

But in terms of, like, the immediate presence. It's the big east. They got Yukon. That's all it matters. This is, like, real, like, hard knocks dragonstone. You know, we're looking at the roster. We see what positions we've got locked in. But, like, let's scout the talent. Can I ask you, of the free agent dragons, of Vermithor, Silver Wing,

sheepstealer, the cannibal, the gray ghost, N.C. Which do you think is the sickest name? Well, sickest name, but I think sheepstealer is an awesome name, but that's not, I got a dream bigger if I'm a dragon guy, you know, like, so Vermithor. Vermethor is incredible. Like the bronze, the beauty, the former dragon of old king's. But you don't want the cannibal, a dragon that eats other dragons? Well, so, like, this is an important distinction to draw, right? The wild dragons have never been paired.

They've never bonded with a rider. So that's like, you're talking the ultimate Hail Mary. But the reason that Jace is emphasizing Vermithor. and Silver Wing is because they've had writers before. Jahars and the Good Queen Al is saying, like, there's a reason to believe that they would accept a rider. That's like a different calculus. We have a lot of questions about C-Smoke. We don't really

know what to tell you about C-Smoke because we don't know ourselves because in the book, Lainor's dead and in the show he's not dead. And so that's just a big question we have. What's going on with C-Smoke? But yeah, Vermithor and Silver Wing should not be too hard to claim if you're a dirty blonde or a strawberry

blonde or have a blonde streak. Do you remember seeing Vermithor You remember Damon, that's who Damon sang the lullaby to at the end of season one. That was almost, I mean, I was like, fuck yeah, let's go, Dragon Math, let's do it. Jason Reneer are talking about on Pear Dragons. This is the best moment of my life. And then I was like, why are they acting like Damon to make this exact pitch in the season one finale? You got all these dragons in the basement?

So that was, that was a little bit odd. Damon made this exact pitch in season one finale. Now, two of their dragons have died since then. And the free agent dragons are free agents like they're elsewhere or they're just. They're hanging around Dragonstone. They're around Dragonstone. We've seen Seasmook flying. So, Renira and Masaria were watching from Dragonstone and Saw Sea Smoke.

That was when he was kind of, like, restless and lonely. Very sad. Also, Adam of Hull looked up and saw him flying over Driftmark. Damon said in the season one finale that he was on Driftmark. But Driftmark and Dragonstone are right next to each other. So that's like where Seasmoke is. And then the rest of them are in the Dragon Mount or around the Dragon Mound. Sheep.

This is another huge edge, not only the volume. Cannibal's just eaten other dragons. Dragonstone has an edge here. By the way, this is like we didn't actually. answer your question, like, why would you pick to live here? Various answers to the question. But one of them is, like, dragonstone has a volcanic, a volcanic mountain where the dragons love to be.

Like, this is a natural habitat for them. If you're a dragon, I'm sure that's great. The dragon pit in Kings Landing is an unnatural place for them to be. Okay. So this is like another edge for Team Blime. Wait, so I said we should go to the door and where are you going when the war comes? You love the air. Oh, the area.

Okay. Really? You're a mountain guy. You're like, lock the bloody gate. Okay. You're not worried about the moon door? No. I mean, I think I get along with everyone.

So no one's going to push you through? Yeah, fair enough. You're probably right? Anything else from this episode that we should hit before we take off? You think we talked enough about the Vesenia comp? There's kind of like an interesting good and bad part to that, right? The bad, like, mother of Magor, the cruel and suspected sorceress.

The good, fabled warrior. You remember Aria talking to Taiwan and Haranho like about what a great warrior Vesena was? Remember in the beginning of House of the Dragon? Vesenia, that's what Reneiro wanted to name her young sibling. This is a hero, right, for characters like-Lenra. We already have a Vesignia. Yeah, and Ria. Exactly.

I do want to call out Egon muttering mummy as Alicent left the room. That was chill. Agonizing. And then also. Did it make you think of Rob at the Red Wedding going, mother? Definitely. Yeah. But like, almost more striking was Alicent sitting by his roasting flesh, calling him my son?

And looking genuinely upset. Well, I would be upset, too, if my last conversation with my son before he was roasted on his dragon was, yeah, do nothing. And he's like, I got it. I'll do nothing for a while. What else? Cheez's dog. When we saw the rat catchers cut down, the sweet little pup was still there. It's heartbreaking.

I really hope that he finds a good home soon. Yeah, I'm sure animal adoption is number one. What did you make of Alice Rivers just vanishing literally into thin air behind Simon Strong? I rewatched that a couple times after you said that. I think there's plausible deniability that she needs. Maybe she just goes into a hallway that's really like in the... If you rewatch it, she does like walk behind him, but then the camera cuts away from him.

And when it comes back, she's on. But I think that it was shot in a way that suggests that perhaps he is the only one seeing Alice. No, no, no, Simon looks at her. When he looks at her, could he be seeing somebody else? A barn out. You know, like, whatever. Yeah. Yeah.

What do you think of goose and duck coming back as stand-ins for body parts during sex? Did you like that connection to the season one? I'm not a big game person. I mean, I'll eat anything, but like usually, So will Damon. Wow. Can we end there, please? For Mallory Rubin and Joanna Robinson.

I'm Chris Ryan. Join us next Sunday for episode six of House of the Dragon. Talk to Thrones will be here on the YouTube channel of the Ringerverse and on the Spotify feed of the House of Arr. It's been a pleasure. It has but a joy. And I don't mean it the way you think of it.