House of R - 'House of the Dragon’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive

Episode Date: July 1, 2026

Mal and Jo are back to dive deep into the second episode of ‘House of the Dragon’ Season 3, ”Queen's Landing.” They break down everything from Aemond's arrival at Harrenhal to Rhaenyra’s arrival at King’s Landing. (00:00) Intro (06:39) Opening Snapshot (20:57) Opening Credits Check-in (23:11) Mopping Up the Gullet (27:55) Rhaenyra Receives Jace’s Body (45:09) Rhaena and Sheepstealer Return to the Vale (54:04) A Post-Fishfeed Musical Interlude (01:04:14) Daemon and Alys Say an Ominous Farewell (01:16:49) The Search for Corlys (01:29:26) Aegon and Larys Make Their Escape (01:33:40) Alicent Springs Into Action (01:44:23) Aemond Takes Harrenhal—At a Cost (01:51:05) Daemon Shares Choice Words With the Seeds and Mysaria (02:00:29) Daemon Reminds Rhaenyra of Their Purpose (02:06:56) The Blacks Fly to King’s Landing (02:09:48) Taking the Red Keep (02:18:00) Rhaenyra Takes a Head—and a Throne (02:31:08) Book Spoilers! Explore the exclusive collection at ⁠Target.com.⁠ Hosts: Joanna Robinson and Mallory Rubin Producers: Carlos Chiriboga and Scott Lee Studio Production: Jacob Cornett Social: Jomi Adeniran Additional Production Support: Arjuna Ramgopowell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Greetings. And welcome to House of Arr, a ringerverse podcast on the Ringer Podcast Network. I'm Mallory Rubin joining me today because today, Kings Landing receives its queen. Me? It's Joanna Robinson. Queen of my heart. Whose head do I take? Well, I'm the only other one in the studio right now.

So that's worrying. Guys, come on in. Joe, we are here, of course, to dive deep. Deep, profoundly deep. all the way to the bottom of the lake shore. Fish feet, fish feet. Except there's too many bones in the way. Bones. House of the Dragon. Yeah, a little Baltimore accent came out over there. Yeah, other side of the table. Wow. What a twist. We're here to talk about Hottie. House of the Dragon. Season three, episode two, what an episode it was. It's called Queens Landing. We are going to go beat by beat through the entire thing right after this. This episode of House of R is presented to you by Target. years, Pokemon has shown that adventures are better together, and Target is calling all trainers

to the celebration. That's because there's something for every era of fan in the Pokemon and Target limited time collection. Thought you found them all after the first drop? Think again. Drop two just landed featuring life-size Pokemon puzzles and an instant print digital camera. The entire collection is in store and online, so check it out now. Explore now at Target.com. Before we do any of that, we're actually going to share some programming. Wow, what a lie. I know. We always say right after this, it's never right after that.

No. Never. But you hook them. And then you hope they stay. Programming reminders, here's what else we have cooking right now. Talk the Thrones. Every Sunday. Immediately.

Legitly. After the latest Hot D episode, we gather with our best beloved, Christopher Ryan. Love him. For Talk to Thrones. So Sunday night, T, T, T, T, E, P, 3. be there. Not a good sign that I can't get out full words, like at the beginning of the pod, but we'll see how it goes today. We'll see how it goes. It's going to go very well. I think the state of peak exhaustion really worked for us last week. We'll see if we could tap into

that same mania today. Okay. I have high hopes. I have high hopes. In addition to talk the thrones and then, of course, the House of the Dragon deep dives on Tuesday evenings, we are covering the vampire list at. We're having a blast. Check out that show if you're not watching it. You can watch it on AMC plus. Plus. See. And then our pods will be up on

Mondays most weeks. TBD next week we have a little bit of a schedule wrinkle we're working through. And so if the Lestat episode is late next week, I promise we have a really good reason. This is news to Carlos in real time

because we haven't talked to him about this. He's in the control room like, what the fuck are they talking? We found that last night. We might have a conflict. So we're doing our best and we'll get Lestat up as soon as we can. It will be there.

We'll be rocking out. Maybe we'll do the entire thing in song. We'll find out. I can't wait to find out. And then, you know, we're only a couple weeks away from The Odyssey, so that is thrilling. Yeah. We also have one, one Nolan revisited film left, Oppenheimer. So that is something that we will talk about at some point.

At some point. In the coming months? Weeks. Weeks. Do we know when? We don't. But at some point. We're also, it's July.

That's right. Ish, almost. I was like, I just assumed you were right when you said that. It's not. Almost. It sounded right. You could have said it's September. And I would have said, yep.

It's almost July. Yeah. We're going to Comic-Con. We are. Can't wait. We'll have more details soon. More details, but we will be there. There will be some in-force.

In-force. So plan and prepare accordingly. Joanna, how can everybody follow along? How can they get breakouts from the pods, memes and photos, updates on what might be coming at Comic-Con, etc? Oh, my gosh. At House of Our Pod are relatively new-ish. Outhouse of House of Our Pod is the rude troll fan parody account. I said at House of Our Pod.

is our newish, new-esque. Nobody start outhouse House of Arr. Don't do it. It's not nice. It's already taken. That is where you can find all those aforementioned breakouts. You can also find us full video pods on YouTube or Spotify. Sometimes, very rarely, but sometimes we have visual aids.

I do apologize to the podcast listeners for doing a prolonged map segment without any. clue for the podcast listeners about what direction I was talking about on top of the radio. Ah, the audio media. Yeah. Remember, remember how podcasts are for people listening? And I was like, here you'll see this. Anyway, that's a rarity. Usually you can also just listen to us. Follow the pod, wherever you get podcasts. That's right. Email us, hobbits and dragons at gmail.com. Yeah. We're getting some great House of Our emails for House of the Dragon. Thank you so much for sending those in. And that's it. That's it. Fumble my way. way through that.

You did great. Spoiler warning? Oh my God. Spoiler warning. Here's how we do it during the Thrones runs. If it happened in the episode of television that we're covering today, guess what? We're going to talk about all of it. It's all on the table.

Anything that's ever happened in House of the Dragon to date could come up today. If it's ever happened in another Thrones television program, Game of Thrones, another of the Seven Kingdoms, it could potentially come up today. In terms of book information, we'll sprinkle, we'll dabble. smattering. It will smatter some book quotes and context. Quote. The Baltimore came back to the proper side of the table.

We'll dabble some book quotes. Going down to the ocean, huh? I'm going to watch the O's, have an addie beau. Some book quotes as we go for context, clarity. But if it's a nugget about the future, anything about story beats that are yet to come. Helena saw on a dream or Alice saw in a puddle. We'll talk about it in the book. spoiler section.

Which you will be warned of as we near it. Yeah. Which, which stuff go. Carlos will have a spooky sound effect for you to signal that the book spoiler section is upon us and that'll be at the very end of the pod. So you only have to worry about that late. Stick around if you want to. At that point, leave if you don't want to hear book spoilers.

Okay. Is the upstart pup to Craven to face his queens? We'll find out because it's time to pod. It is time for the opening snapshot. Snake. I love that sort sound. Joanna, before we talk about episode two of season three, just a quick update. One of the things we asked last week is, how many people do we think watch the premiere?

Like, what is the audience going to be for the season as we go? So after we recorded, there was an answer to this question. 21.5 million global viewers after just three days per WB for episode one. We don't have figures for episode two yet, so is this going to take up, hopefully? That is an 8% dip from season two. That is obviously still a fuckload of people compared to how many people watch most television shows in the peak TV streaming era.

But something to track. Anecdotally, yes. We were going to track this as we go too. We talked about this a bit last week. What is the temp check? What is the read for you? People in your life, people on the old interwebs. Did you feel a...

I felt an positivity around episode one. I felt an uptick beyond that for episode two. A substantial uptick for episode two. People are like... We're back. We really liked episode two. along with, and I'm not trying to, like, this is a jubilant moment. I think this is an excellent episode of House the Dragon, people are really excited about it. That's great. The other

thing I heard was from people, wow, what a great season two finale that was. I mean, there's no question. Right. It would have been sensational. A sensational season two finale. And so that's just sort of the slight caveat is that it still feels like this belonged at the end of a previous season. No question. And so, you know, that's something to think about how does that impact this season? Because if we think about, you know, episodes one and two as episode 9 and 10 of season 2. That means season 3 as it

exists is only six episodes long. Right. You know. Right. So. These things are all impossible to pull apart from each other because had season 2 been 10 episodes and ended that way, maybe seasons 3 and 4 would have been longer than just 8 episodes.

Maybe we would have been in 10 episode territory the whole way. I think, you know, Condolin team definitely wanted those other episodes at the end of the previous season. I hope they feel really vindicated and validated as people are saying like, hey, this would have been great. And they're like, you hear that money people? All the shit that people were talking about, the season two finale, we didn't want it that way.

And they didn't want it that way. And what if you just let us do this? I was thinking back to all of our season two trailer breakdowns where we're like, this is definitely where the season's going to end. Runeira takes Kings Landing. That's happening. Gullet, for sure. Rinaina taking Kings Landing. We're going to pan away.

We're like, wow. On the throne. What an incredible moment that's going to be. We're like, wow, they're really hiding Gullet. Weird that go it's not in any of the season two trailers. They must be finishing the effects. Yeah. Well, what sweet summer children?

We were. But set the table. Again, we'll go through all the beats in the deep dive. But set the table, Joe, as you already just kind of alluded to, you loved this episode. People are hyped about the episode. Queensland, 64 minutes. Hey, I see what they did there in the episode name. With Chris before Talk to Thrones.

We were like, we didn't have the episode title at that point. So we were like, what do we think this is called? Queenslanding didn't occur to me, but it's strong. You know what's really funny is that. The only option I came up with was I was like, what if they did, we light the way? And then I was like, wait, didn't they do that for the Reneer's wedding in season one when Allison walks in in the gray dress? That was called, We Light the Way. Directed by Claire Kilner, who directed this episode.

And you also brought up We Light the Way when talking about the blood pool shot at the end of this episode with Otto. And you were like, remember, Reneer's wedding blood pool shot. Claire Kilner, just like bookending her fantastic work here. I mean, she's just incredible. I talked about her a lot and talked to her talks about her various inspirations for this episode, hearing her talk about it, thinking back through, you know, so this episode is written by Sarah Hess, who's written a ton of episodes. Yes. And directed by Claire Kilner, who's directed several episodes. Yes.

They're both EPs. Yes. Yes. And Sarah Hess is the co-head writer. So this is a power team. Yes. Coming in for this episode. And I think Claire Kilner has really proven herself at this point in my eyes is like, if it's a Claire Kilner episode, I'm going to be.

really excited to see what she does. And like going back to her first episode, King of the Narrow Sea, I just like remember us at the time talking about some of the visuals of that. That's when Reneer and Damon go into the bowels of the pleasure den and like, you know, have their night out on the town. This podcast owes so much to that episode. It's really true. It's really true.

I googled that just to make, even though we've said it one million times, I googled it just to make sure I had it completely right. and dumb AI, so AI's dumb. But the dumb AI result was like, Otto's famous line from House of the Dragon, I was like, if it's famous, that's because of us. I don't think it is, but if it is. Incredible. It's because we wielded into fame. We light the way, the blood wedding in season one, the Green Council, which is the penultimate episode of season one.

That's a blight on the record, that episode. I don't know, like, because. But not through the fault of direction. I think the opening of that episode. of like, you know, Vesaris is dead, like what's going on? Like, I remember the opening of that episode being really good. Yeah, that stuff's quite good. You know, death by small ball, still iconic to this day.

I can't get over everything in the dragon pit with Males and Renice and everything. It just still doesn't make sense. But that's not Claire Kildner's fault. That makes no sense. It's never made a single lick of sense. It's bizarre. Did you see on social media, there was this tweet going around where it was like, if Lady Olena had had a dragon, like the whole thing.

like the war would be over. And it was like comparing Olena to Rainier's or something like that. And they're like, I'll tell you something right now. Oletta would have torched this shit out of the greens. You're a dragon be a dragon? No question. I did not see the tweet. I barely go on Twitter as you know.

I basically go on. But sometimes tweets make their way into Instagram, so I don't know what you've seen meme-wise. That is true. Every now and then someone will post a tweet on an Instagram story every now and then on a carousel. There you go. That's the extent of my Twitter exposure other than the three times a year that I tweet out this podcast and then I look at my Twitter and I'm like, all it is is tweets about House of the Dragon and Joe.

Feels right. It feels good. It feels right. Last time at least, Claire Killet, the only one she did in, no, that's not true, but she directed Reneer the Cruel. Cargall Boyle. Yes, the episode two and episode five of season two. Cargall Meadle Bowl.

Your favorite. You love Cargle Bowl. My favorite thing that's ever happened. Anyway, Claire Kilner, what a star, really, really brought it in this episode, I think. It's just such a treat to have. of Joffrey and his beaten bloody head and the blood pool from season one, episode five, back on our minds. It's like, Otto did do something good at the end. You gave us an excuse to remember Joff.

Do you think... I was actually thinking... Before his namesake, other joff comes back into the story. I was thinking about poor dead Joffrey. When Simon Strong dies in this episode during Pride Month, and I'm just sort of like... Listen. Yeah. In the same episode where he was like,

young, virile young man. What brought you here? Incredible reply from Damon when he's like, and which of those brought you through Glade and Glenn? Wonderful. You know what's really fun about that? Sorry, we are going to go in order probably. You know, we'll do what we want.

We're going to talk plenty about the fish feed, obviously. Fish, feed, and that song. But Sean from the History of West Rose podcast, pointed out that if they are indeed like improvising lines there in the Fish Feed song, Damon is like still going because Simon says when the Riverlands were ascendant music and meat and virile young men. Yes. And Damon says, and which of these delights drew to us through Glade and Glenn? Like he's still.

He just can't stop. He's still dropping bars. Yeah. Yeah. Get Damon Targaryen on the vampire listat tour bus. and do it now. Oh, yeah, his big boss. His rendition of big boss would have been really good.

Oh, Damon would lay down. Epic disc track. Amon, killing a gay icon during Pride Month. Kristen Cole beat one to death. So bros who gay bash together stay together. We'll see how Kristen and Amon do. But happy pride. Simon Strong.

We'll miss you. I'm really bummed. I'm despondent about Simon Strong. Even though we knew it was coming. It's still devastating because he's been such a delight. I also thought this episode was just wonderful. It's natural. Really, really excellent.

Some astonishingly great performances. and moments that feel, and I overused the word iconic. Who do? Legendary. I don't say this lightly here. I think there are moments in this episode that feel like they will stand the test of time as signature pantheon thrones, visuals, and throne's moments.

Renira receiving Jace's body and the performance from Emma Darcy in that scene. Unquestionably, the visual of Renera ascending to the throne reflected, as you noted, in the pool of Otto's blood. and what that tells us not only about that moment, but the cost of war and the inextricable nature in the stretch of the canon, the Dance of the Dragons for House Targaryen,

of your achievement and your pursuits and the toll and the cost of that. And the cost of war is where we open this episode, and it's a through line of the story and a question that should be in our minds the whole time. And Allison and Reniro looking at each other is something that I think Thrones fans will carry with them moving forward at the end.

It's just amazing. Emma's face on the throne, This thing that she has always, I mean, she, Renira, they, Emma. Yes. She, Ranira has always wanted to sit on the throne. And then here it is. And that, to me, is the three line of this episode is just sort of like, what do people actually want? What are they given and what do they want?

You know, like, Alas wants a castle and Damon's like, we'll see. You know, Ulf wants a hug. But he gets a slap in the fucking face. It gets a slap in the face instead. But it's just sort of like this idea of like, you know, what does Alan want, does he want his, Corlis' name, or does he just want, like, some love and respect? Like, what are you want? What do you want? What are you given? And, and then also what happens when you get, finally get what you want, right? Was it actually what you wanted all along?

Let's ask Raina, you know? How does it feel to get the thing you finally want and find yourself in that sense? Feels great. She looks great. She looks great. She looks great. She's thriving. Everything is going really well. Yeah. Jane Aaron's like, great, I got a dragon. This is great. comes no with no baggage attached. This is wonderful for me. Yeah, I agree that through line is really rich text to parse in this episode. And Reneera, with Reneer most of all, but Allison, so many of the characters. And then that through line, too, of, like, trust and loyalty and what you can rely upon

and what you have to doubt at all moments. And whether you're ever really in a position to be able to identify that, like, it's just a, this was a really good Thrones episode for balancing character dynamics, introspection, the relationships between them, the way that this episode called upon and rewarded the history that has passed between the characters, but also our history as viewers with the characters. Like, you know, there are definitely some house that Dragon fans still that are like, did we need five episodes of basically prequel?

You watch an episode like this and that feels like a decision that was appropriate to make, for example, right? So, you know, there's all of that. And then there's something that is like epic, like the taking of the throne. That is just a huge, huge, huge moment. To go back to your balance point, which I think is such a good one, something that Claire Kilner said is that action without emotion is useless, right? And so she's always mindful as a director of making sure that we like feel the action.

And I think that's a problem I had with the Gullet in episode one is I didn't feel as emotionally connected to it as I wanted to. Lohar being your long-established favorite character who are the most invested in. You didn't feel it. Everyone spent years invested in Lohar. So, you know, so that's what I'm always asking for. When we talk about spectacle versus whatever, like, I don't mind spectacle. If it's tied to something emotional, like Rook's Rest, you know, as you brought up, like, my emotions were so tangled in that moment. And I can and Obi-1 facing off on Mustafar.

Same, same. Same level. Exactly the same. So- I agree. and I knew you would agree. So, you know, I, like when you have something in this episode, like, Aeman arriving on Vagar at Heron Hall, like, all that looks really cool. And I don't take that for granted.

I don't take for granted how good the dragons look. Like, that's amazing. Because if they look shitty, we'd be taken out of the story. It's very immersive to see these dragons rendered so beautifully, and they're everywhere. You see Sheep Steeler in the back arena. You know, Sheep Steeler didn't have to be in that scene, but Sheep Stiller's there. Carraxie taking like a little drink from Possibly my favorite moment in the series to eat.

The corpse-infested waters of the godside. If you're a dragon, it tastes delicious. And a lot of those corpses were probably roasted before they went in there. An umami flavor to the water. Exactly. Really cat-coded moment for Caraxies right there. But the dragons are everywhere. They are amazing.

You know, and that's incredible. I don't take that for granted. But with like Amon and Vagar at Heron Hall, it's Amon being like shanked in the side and then crawling on the floor and saying, like, help me. That's the juice for me. Yes. Here's my one I didn't need it from this episode. Yeah.

Two episodes into the season, two sexual assaults. And I'm like, you know what? It's, yeah. I understand it's a proud throne's tradition. Yeah. I don't think they should be so proud of it. I don't, I think there are so many ways we could have conveyed a similar story for Allison here about like, no matter how much conniving she does or whatever as. a woman, she's still powerless in many ways. There are things that we could have done, but I didn't

need that part of this episode at all. I definitely agree. Yeah. But I loved this episode otherwise. Me too. Big fan. Should we head to the Bells of a Pleasure Dead? Should we head to the deep dive? Let's do it. Oh, there's that screech. Okay, before we get to the actual episode, just quickly, opening credits check in because the tapestry in the opening credits evolved across season two. And here is our first update inside of season one. The gullet has been stitched in into the fabric on the heels of the sewing. We get the kind of blue thread for the water. I thought that looked cool and great.

Oh, it did. And the way the tapestry was like waving. Really neat. Lohar makes the tapestry, which like, frankly outrageous. My favorite character that I've been long invested in. Looked amazing. The design of it is incredible, obviously. Do you think it's a spoiler that there's a blood pool around Loha

and a blood pool around Jace, but not one of our own Corley's? I was interested to see how many people Yeah, for mere minutes How many people left Because I actually did get You know, Chris had asked us about Courtless After episode one And then I did get some texts from friends

Who were like, is the sea snake? Okay Glad you mentioned Arrow riddle Jace Who of course belongs on the tapestry Erd to the Iron Throne This is a huge moment in the war deserves to be commemorated

in the opening credits and in the tapestry of history. Do you know what I'm going to say? Where's Vermax? Where the fuck is Vermax? I'm sorry, but to not put sweet baby Vermax who died for these buffoons? Bottom of the gullet. Let's pan down through that gorgeous blue thread. It's already there.

Really tough. I know. Are you mad that Bailey didn't try to haul Vermax's body on the back of Moon Dancer to wing him home? Thank you for asking. Thank you for asking. You're welcome. I feel seen and known and understood. I didn't consider it possible or practical for Bela or anyone to retrieve Vermax's body.

However, I did think it was quite amusing in a way that I respect on the show's behalf, that Jace very kindly died with one arm over a wooden plank so that his body could be retrieved. So that Bailey could just like, uh? You unkem up? Thank you, Jase. You did one thing right at the end. end. Mop-up,

mopping up in the gullet. This is where we begin the episode. The seeds have come in, Joe, for mop-up duty. And we talked last week in episode one about this adaptive change to not have Ulf and Hugh and Adam at the gullet. And, you know, we see their additional dragons, the force of the flame, kind of like, just clearing out the remnants here, though some of the remnants will remain. And I can't wait to talk about our favorite characters in the history of television.

Hang on and Laris. Still don't know how we got here, but here we are. Give me credit. You were on it minute one. Larris? Minute one. Minute one. I think you were early on Agon.

I think you were early on Tom Glengarney's Agonne. The remarkable performance from the first. Yeah. The first scene. Just great stuff here. They did not arrive in the thick of the action as in the text, but they got there at the end so that Dolph can say, we were at the Gullet 2, which I found just incredibly amusing. Um, Vermithor and Silver Wing, uh, and Sea Smoke, but, and Seasmoke, you know, has seen some battle, but Vermethor and Silver Wing are massive dragons. Yeah.

Uh, if they had been at the gullet, like the thing about Vermax. Tiny. And moon dancer. Youthful tender. So those like, tweens, you know, they are susceptible to these, uh, you know, grappling hooks, whatever we're calling them. Uh, poniards. I don't know. But, um, in a way.

way that these older dragons wouldn't be. The Bronze Fury would be tough to take down, to pull down with one of those. Follow question. Tell me. Do you think Damon is so weird about Hugh and Ulf because their dragons are bigger than his dragon? Oh, you think it's a dick measuring contest? I do. I mean, Corax is a long noodle boy, but.

Yeah, but like, the Bronx Fury. So interesting, because Caraxies has length. Yeah. And Wiggle. You know? Dexterity. You know us how to move? And I think that a lot of what we've seen with the shrieks and the squeaks tells me that Kuroxies is up to some interesting things.

Okay. So I think Damon feels confident, but it's Damon. And so there's always a little bit of insecurity to feel that. So, this is a great shout. This is why you're the best. Franz Fury is big, big boy. Hefty. Yeah.

Girithy. Yeah. So we're weighing a grand old dame. A grand old dame. Joe, on the imagery front, the dragons and otherwise, this is a just, a quick opening stretch, but we have like this real kind of cacophony of sights and sounds. I think that the score is excellent this season so far. I mean, it's always good, but it is really, really resplendent early. And I thought that the use of the musical accompaniment and

these opening moments were really powerful. And then on the visual front, we have, you know, all the floating bodies, right? I like to be under the water and see the fire come from above the water. Blanketing. Yeah. I liked, like, the literalization of last week's episode title, you know, the salt and sea and fire and blood, but just what that shows you about the way that the fire can kind of take over the world? We open with fire and we end with blood. Yeah. Fire and blood.

That's the name of the book. Not sure if you all have heard. That's the fictional history that this show is adapting. I thought that the lake, and this is also something we get to really see in a cool way later when Rennira and the riders are leaving Dragonsoe to head finally to King's Landing. The air is just choked. with smoke and wreckage and the carnage of the battle. And so much of like what we...

Corliss's legacy. Carlos' legacy up in smoke, tough. So much of what we linger in, appropriately, inside of this episode is the personal costs, right? The really intimate loss and toll of what has happened here. So it is, I think, important and helpful to just give us these reminders of how many people died and how savage this battle was.

Like, the fleets are annihilated. and this rooted us and oriented us very effectively from the jump. I do think it's interesting. I don't know if it's, you know, if it's clear to folks watching at home who haven't read the book. But like the battle the gullet, bloodiest battle on water. And then the fish feed. Fish feed. Also kind of a water battle, but bloodiest land battle.

So the two bloodiest chapters of the war, certainly not the last. We certainly have many more skirmishes to come. But we have just gone through the two bloodiest battles, the biggest losses of human life inside of this war in the last couple episodes. Not ideal. Not ideal. Not ideal. And yet no loss was felt more keenly than Prince, J. Ceres. That's a bookline that we love.

Jace is brought home. Fuck those pirates. Bela brings him home. The dragonstone dragonkeepers carry him forward, this procession of his body. How'd you feel about this about the dragonkeepers? So, like, the dragonkeepers last season were, like, pissed about the whole sewing. So, but how do you feel about them bearing Jace's body like this?

Like, I think it's really interesting. You could have had any castle staff sort of acting as Paul Bears here. But, like, you know, obviously at the dragon mount, like having the dragon keepers so close. a moon dancer is ideal. But it just felt really like, Jase, he's a dragon. He was of dragon blood.

Something that was like, you know, obviously he's obviously Reneira's son, but like a part of him that was questioned his whole life. And here at the end, it's these dragon keepers sort of bearing his body. I just thought this whole sequence was, again, just like where the camera was as Jase's sort of like beautiful dead face

just sort of like comes down over. Still serving face even as a corpse. Crowd surfing. Yeah. That's a beautiful observation. And then, you know, the person who would have appreciated it most, of course, is Jace. Who's not there because he's dead. But, yeah, like, to honor the fact that he was a writer and that he died on Dragonback sort of kind of he had unhooked and then just got shot by arrows by the triarchy.

Tough way to go in battle. A battle that he shouldn't have been in because he wasn't ready, but he did die that way. And I thought I really love, like, on the book ends front to, you know, this episode opens with the body. This episode closes with bodies. We've got the decapitated auto. And, you know, we're probably not going to spend much time when we get to the end of this pod and we're obsessing over the auto sequence.

But let's just note, Ironrod also gets decapitated and he deserved to. No one gives a ship, but he did. He died his own down my wife. Very good, very good. Damon coming into decapitate characters who are in the middle of sentences is one of my favorite house of the dragon traditions.

He loves to do it. He loves to do it. So we have these bodies at the book end of the episode, the open and the close. but it just made me think more broadly of like when there is I don't want to be too weird and spend too long talking about corpses here because even we have limits on the house of ours. I'll try to say this quickly.

But like this was on my mind like when a character dies, what happens to that body and what does it tell us about where we are in the story? Like what the context of the moment is and what grace or indignity befalls that body like what it indicates about the moment in time like Ned Spoiler Ned Stark is beheaded

Tough one When they put his head on a pike His head is on a pike Right To be eaten by crows and picked at And that has to look at Equally important I mean I don't like to see lions

Or any animals My arm They did an amazing job with that prosthetic Holy shit Oh my God. Incredible stuff. The prosthetics team is killing it here. You know, and then Ned's

that indignity, but then his bones, and granted it's part of a manipulation, you know, for Littlefinger, but they're presented to Kat. Right. So you have that. Rob and Grey Wind stitched together.

Their bodies befowled, right, a horrifying one. You have the sequences where a character like Taiwan can rest with the stones on the eyes. But then, like, is the corpse rotting? Does it stink?

You know, even so I just mentioned Beeman. Like, that was a very tense death and a tense moment in the story. But then we were treated to this really fascinating quiet sequence where Renice went in to watch the silent sisters at their work and reflect on the inescapable presence of the stranger. So Reneira who could never find Luke's body, right? And that was such an important part of Reneira's grief after Luke was killed at the end of season one. And it was one of the things that Damon when he was like, real dick mode for Damon at that point, right? But he was basically like, uh, the mother grieves and the queen shirks her duties. And Renice had to say to him, I could not accept what happened to my daughter, Lena, until I saw her body.

And this is something that is not an offer to Renera with Luke. It is here. What we witness is so devastating that I think it forces us to ask, like, is this any better? Or is this just misery in a different form? I love this. And, like, oh, you know, we talked about this last week in terms of, like, the various traditions of the various, you know, the Riverlanders returning the body to mud or whatever. Right. Odd that you didn't mention Prince Joffrey's dead body in front of which his mother and his father, who is also his uncle. Yes.

That fucked. I was going to, but it's such a controversial scene and choice that I couldn't quite bring myself to. Or like, break her chains? Why would we talk about that episode? It's great stuff. Boy. I thought this is incredible. You know, like bringing Jason's body in. We talked about this plenty on Talk to Thrones about how incredible Emma is in this scene, how incredible it is for Renira.

Thinking about, were you thinking about, you know, speaking of Searcy, where you think about other, like, mothers inside of Thrones who we've watched, whether it's Searcy or Catlin or Dineris losing one of her dragon babies or whatever, like, you know, these mothers in their and their horror. you know, Circe holding Joffrey's, like, choking purple body and, like, we hate that kid. And we're excited to see him dead. And we don't even really like Circe that much. But, like, there was something so primal about that moment of Searcy holding Joffrey's body or, of course. And then, like, you know, Catlin just screaming and being like, I guess I'll slice this neck while I'm grieving. The Circe shout out is a great one, too, because I think that's a good one to remember the evolution. across loss, which is like helpful to have in our minds as we watch Renera.

Oh, how it hardens into... Yeah, the different response to Marcella and the question of like, is this like the price we pay for our sins? Yeah. And then where we find Circe after Tommon is a point of no return. Emma Darcy said this incredible thing inside the episode about Renira being robbed with the opportunity to be a mother to protect her son. I just thought this is incredible. And I think when they bring Jace's body in and

Reneer is talking to Jace like her child is still alive. Yeah. What have you done? How could you do this? You know, Jase? What have you done? Like the way that Emma decided, you know, she could have played it as like, what have you done? You know, whatever, but like, just this like scolding sort of gently scolding tone or whatever. It reminds me a lot of, you know, that's not how it is between this mother and son, but like, it reminded me a lot of Romeo and Juliet, the like, oh, troll, drunk all and left no friendly drop when Juliet's talking to Romeo's if he's still there, you know, just sort of like, just the inability to accept the reality of what you're confronted with.

And we talked on Talk the Thrones about how horrible it is that Reneer has to go through this experience with an audience. Yes. And what is everybody, what are we reading on the faces of the people in that room? Yeah, they're deeply uncomfortable with her response here, which I say, get a grip and let this lady like lose her marbles for a second. I think it's absolutely fine. Yeah. Her beloved son, second beloved son is dead, you know. Good sons. And yeah. I mean, like, fuck you, Sir Laurent, honestly.

I know. I will say this. I know. The gaw. The moment between Bela and Sir Laurent when he asked how the battle went, she said Tis won. Yeah. Yeah. I actually love that even more than the Coralus line, which is a book line that we were waiting for.

Yeah. His, you know, if this be victory, I hope I never see another. Like, we were waiting for that because that's a book line. Yeah. But Baila saying tis won. Yeah. And his response to that, that really captured that feeling that I had reading that victory line in the book. I agree. And, like, you know, you used the term peer at victory last week and, like, this question of what is the cost and can you possibly justify it? The way that of this episode. And then the show and the dance is a piece of canon overall ask us to think about that, like, in the inside of one relationship or one family or one household and then kind of at scale en masse, that's like inescapable in moments like this.

I think we often think about it for characters like Reneira or Allison who are making these big choices. But I agree. It's like really powerful to see a moment like that for a character like Bala, who. And then you pair it with saying to Alan, you know, Bella saying to Alan later, like, we were children together. You know, we talk about the, like, they were girls together with Allison and Reniro, which Masaria basically directly invokes in this episode.

Someone asked where our writing credit was on that. And I was like, thanks so much. I was thinking of you and us weeping and sobbing in the studio talking about that seed together one of my favorite podcasting memories ever. Slightly less emotion being shared between Damon and Masaria. But, you know, they have their own sort of thing going their own special spark. Yeah. They'd actually do a great podcast together. Damon and Masaria, my God. Can you imagine? I would like to go back in time four years when we first started this and say,

yeah, when we were discussing Masaria's accent, four years or now, I stand by every take. this lady should have a podcast. I stand by every day. Every single day. It is one of the most shocking parts of rewatching House of the Dragon is confronting Masaria's season one accent. It just pulls you over. Boles you over.

Which accent work? Boles you over more. Gabriella in the Vampire Listad, the Great Conversion, or Masaria in season one of House of the Dragon. I still, I give Masaria the edge, because Count Chocula is at least a vampire. And so while it is a bit of a puzzling choice,

it is a choice inside of a story universe that I understand. I will give the show credit this. They didn't bury the character Masari, even though she was deeply unpopular. They're like, she has things to do. We're going to keep her around. And they took the note, and they, you know, turned down the volume on the accent. Great stuff.

We are grateful. On the Emma performance front in this stretch, Claire Kilner, a couple lines from the official pod about just how mesmerizing this performance was thought were really interesting. Claire Kilner described it as deep from the pit of their gut, which is, I mean, poetry, but just that capture something I think about. That's how you podcast, I've always said, deep from the pit of your gut.

It really is. Yeah. Via screech and something primal deep from the pit of the gut. And then Sarah has said, there are not that many actors I would write that scene for. And I believe that that's true, actually. Like, you have to have the confidence that something like that can be rendered on screen at this level. And Emma Darcy is capable of that in a way that is unique. I really just the tracking and the evolution from that, this can't possibly be true denial that you identified into the despair and anger.

of just like the mounting loss. How can a nut, like there's no reprieve, there's no escape. How can this keep happening? Two boys who hid their faces in my skirts. Devastating, right? Absolutely crushing. And what that forces Renera to ask about. And Damon's like, yada, yada, yada.

We have a... It's time to switch to High Valerian. We have a threat today. It's time to switch to High Valerian. And then the wrath. You know, and that blend of emotions, like when will those things kind of co-executive? exist with each other and when will one win the day? This scene, and Renier goes right back in after the wrath kind of breaks through into going

back to Jason's body and scooping him up and cradling him and just sobbing, choking out the despair and the anguish. But that comes after laying in appropriately and rightly to almost every person in. Yeah, Bella, you too. That room, let's see the clip. All of you who knew what Giaceris had done and stood by, and your lives too not forfeit, have you not betrayed your queen? I mean, submit it to the Emmys now.

There's no need to wait. The way she, like, looks at Missaria and her sort of, like, body kind of collapses into the sobs. It just sort of, like, I can't even hold my... myself up under the weight of this grief. It's just incredible stuff. And also, you spend so much time trying to assume the figure of the ruling queen or the warrior. And then we think back to like cutting into ribbons, the gown of the ruling queen, you know, like we talked about last week. It's like, well, what is any of that? First of all, sometimes you can't maintain that image. Sometimes just the raw humanity breaks the dam. But also, like, Ranira is in a moment right now

of asking, what is any of that for? Where has any of that gotten, Renira? Right? And, like, I thought, so I was, Sir Lauren is like an interesting microcosm of a larger circumstance here. I was thinking back to in season one, Damon coming with Sir Stephen and Sir Lauren and basically making them swear their allegiance, right, with Carraxies there to intimidate, trying to teach Jace a lesson about how it's done. And said to them at the time, if you choose treachery, if you swear fealty now only to turn your cloaks, know that you will die screaming. It's so interesting as a, like, Sir Laura did not go to the Greens. He didn't give Renera to the enemy. You could argue this is a deeper and more damning betrayal. Because what it is, and it's this, it's like these things mount. A loss of a person you can trust. And then the constant diminishment by the people who are supposed to have chosen Renira and sworn to abide her.

I mean, the black counsels here. Fuck those guys. Oh, my God. The worst. Forever. The worst. You know, so those guys. guys are here. She's like, fuck you guys, I don't, I don't listen to anymore. Great.

They're useless. Yeah, absolutely. But yeah, Sir Lauren, Marlbride, when he, I was like, you're in so much trouble, buddy. And then when he, like, went to, like, grab her, I was like, don't do that. That was nuts. I was like, don't do that. Don't touch her. Second on the power rankings for this episode, still behind Keltycar and Girardi's being like, you can't be serious about going to Kingslanding. But yeah, Lauren grabbing Renier was fucking nuts. You know, we have some notes for Damon, which we'll get to later on slapping off. I do think that Renera should have slapped Keltigar again, as she very satisfying. I mean, yeah, there's a couple, like, don't fucking touch me moments from the Targs here.

But yeah, that was a real don't fucking touch me. Why did he do that? That was so dumb. Maybe he's like, well, I'm dead anyway. So I might as well. My life is forfeit. I'm going to make a grand gesture. You know, Kristen was the sworn sword for a while, and that's a different type of loss, right?

That's a, you have shamed me because you didn't want my oranges and cinnamon. And so I have gone to the other side. But then Eric? Cargle bowl. It's the second time it's come up today. Will it be the last? Who can say? Stay tuned to find out.

Is it the moment that turned the tide of the entire war? It could be. Some are saying sin be get sin is a thing that I have heard and know to be true. Oh, okay. Brother be brother. Conflict inside the human heart of twins. It's the only thing worth writing about. Stefan killed at the kind of first attempt, the rough draft of the sewing.

Laurent now, all the counselors are useless. None of them can be relied upon except Masaria, who is kind of now entwined in this, like, what is going to happen in this relationship. You're using the worm language now. Twirling and writhing and wriggling. It's Masaria and Damon. She doesn't even have Jace who was like, honestly, when you saw her sort of like plotting and planning

with Damon gone last season, Jace was like quite constantly her counselor. She certainly doesn't want to talk to Bela. You know what I mean? So it's just sort of like, Damon shows up, whispers some high, valerian sweet nothings into her ears. Holds her hand a little bit when they go into, you know, claim the throne. Like, so.

I love the little handgras. In terms of, like, who is Reneer going to be listening to? Who has her ear going forward? I mean, fuck you, Celtic are. You know, definitely not you. Lauren, you could die the way you choose. Like, that's fine. Incredible, incredible moment just while marching out and not even.

Let him pick the way. He gets to choose. Absolutely loved it. The other choice. One of the characters that Reneira seems safe to say two episodes into season three, probably not going to be doing a lot of game planning and strategizing with, is Raina, who has returned. A seamless transition.

Thank you. Sheep Steeler. When you're tallying up the men in the story who don't listen to women, are you putting Sheep Steeler on the list? Oh. I mean, you have to. At the end of the day, you have to. It's Celticar and.

Sheepstealer. I love sheepsteeler. Just like, just precious. I love that overbite. The design is so impeccable. And I ultimately blame Raina for taking sheepstealer right into battle with no training or confidence that that dragon would be comfortable or responding, which it was not. I got to say. Yeah. I have a lot of notes for Lady Jane Aaron. None of them are fashion tips, though. No. She looks astounding. Yeah. I will say this. You know, sometimes you put stuff on Twitter, I'm not you, because you don't go on Twitter, but sometimes you put stuff on Twitter and you're like, I really hope this does numbers and it doesn't. And then sometimes you just toss up something stupid and Twitter's like that stuff.

Did you have a viral hit recently? I don't know about viral, but like, but I put up a photo of like Lady Jane Aaron in this fit. Yeah. Where the cape kind of looks like wings and stuff like that. You love a cape. And sweet Robin from the final counsel in. in everyone's favorite episode of Game of Thrones the finale. Yeah.

They're basically the same exact outfit. Same shade of blude. Same costume, same collar. Same, you know, the crest is right here. All the sort of stuff like that. And I just said something about like, how Sarah and found their look and they just like stuck with it basically the whole time. But I loved,

I loved her look here. I thought it looked incredible. Would, uh, and sweet Robin was like, that's the one for me? Would, you know, suckling on a teat for some, some breast milk have completed the outfit?

You didn't have to bring up the teat. And yet you did. It's impossible not to if Robin is mentioned. That's absolutely not true. Here's the thing about Lady Jane Aaron. That I think is important to remember. Yes. As she's sort of making her political calculations here,

because she's quite cold to Rana, because she's like, you brought some fucking bullshit to my doorstep. Disaster. I somehow have gotten a raven that has told me that sheepsteeler is being blamed for Jace's death at the gullet. News traveled quickly on this one, got to say. I believe that Jane Aaron has the best ravens, you know, perhaps.

Raina flew up there on a dragon. Yeah, maybe they took a... I mean, who knows where Sheep Steeler went before? Sheep's, like, I got to eat 20 different sheep. That's true. And then she's like, eventually like, let's go talk to Lady Jane Aaron. Okay, anyway, talking to Lady Jane Aaron, Jane Aaron's like, this is a political disaster.

Yes. Sure you are. They're blaming you for Jace's death. Ill advise, I think, for Rana to sort of like... Because at this point, nobody knew that it was Rana now Lady Jail. Jane knows it was Raina on sheep stealer. So I don't know. That's not information I would want around.

Agreed. But she's like sanctuary, essentially. Yeah. And also then Raina goes into like, don't you want to, I heard you want a dragon. Vagar is on the loose. Vagher's at large. Yeah. And in charge.

And we do not know where Vagar is. And you were promised dragons and you got two little baby dragons. You've been pissed about it. You kept complaining about how they were from the end. You got two tiny little dragons. Guess what? Yeah. Now you got sheep stealer, a dragon I can totally control.

And Lady Jane, who has just received very rapid news about what happened to Jace, is like, Okay. Sounds great. I don't expect to see you again, but okay. Why does Lady Jean believe that Raina can back up this pledge? I think she just like wants. Deturant? Yeah.

There's just like a big fuck-off dragon in her neighborhood. Yeah. And she's like, it's like those signs that say like we have cameras or there's a big dog. Beware dog. Yeah. You know, and you don't have a dog. But then people are like, I'll just rob the house that doesn't have that sign. I heard there was a dog here.

I heard there was a giant, unwieldy, underbiting dragon in The Vale. Great stuff. A reminder about Lady Jane Aaron that she does not, she did not become the Lady of the Vale in the Word of the East by marriage, right? She was born and raised in Erin. So it's just like in her to the bones. Her father and her brothers died fighting when she was young and she had to imprison her own uncles to protect her claim. Stuff. So she's been out here.

Yeah, fighting. Fighting. Fighting to hold on. Her whole life. And that's part of why, you know, let's give Jace's flowers once more, because this wasn't actually something that we saw on the show. We just heard it recounted. We got to see Jace in the North. We didn't see him in the veil. But Jace also, like, won that, that pledge that sent the Youngens and Rana up in the first place in exchange for the promise of support. Part of the reason some wippy little dron.

It doesn't even have StormCloud anymore because they were sent off and, you know, where are they? But Jopry and interacts he still. The, you know, to the, like, I have had to fight to hold this, some of it is they're kin, right? Emma Aaron, Renera's mother, Viseras's beloved, first beloved. First lady to die screaming in childbirth. But not the last. I'm not the last. But not the last.

In Aaron, right. So there's a more direct tie of kinship there. But also, like, the fact, and this is explored in fire and blood, the fact that Lady Jane is a woman who is trying to hold on to her. slice of rule. And she's like, ah, Ranira. Inclines her to support. Game recognized game. Yeah, exactly, to support Renera. So that's an interesting dynamic. I thought that Lady Jane showed like real

real hutsba, riding up to challenge Rina with Sheepstiller right there. You could say that's just riding a horse. A horse. You could say it's just like a reckless and irresponsible and dumb to... You did just say that. You could. Some could.

But you kind of got to admire it. I was thinking back to when Raina made the pitch, you know, you said that the queen kind of fucked you. So let me give you the thing you really want. First of all, it's fun to think of the history there, too, because even though this pledge was struck with Jace, Jace flew in, you know, we think of Braun, we think of our beloved Braun, you know, I'll impregnate the bitch, right? The Erie in the veil famously impregnable for men on the ground, for armies on the ground. However, Jace and Vermax flew in from above because Vermex was a dragon

and it at the time reminded Jane of our girl Vesnia and Vagar flying in and just rocking little Ronald Aaron on her lap, right? During the conquest to bring the veil into the fold of the first place. So this idea that the veil is like so assured in its geography but is still vulnerable to dragons, it's like a fun little bit of that geography. Here's what I would argue. Everyone's vulnerable to dragons. Well, don't tell Allison that.

She got Aiman with like a 30 second pitch. It would be fine there. I was thinking back to Raina and Jane in season two because those were ten scenes between them. And I quite... Oh yeah. Jane was never warm and welcoming sort. Not a...

There was no lemon cakes you love lemon cakes moment for Raina. Absolutely none of that. It was all Moondor vibes just in terms of spirit and disposition the whole time. But that exchange of the dragger. will grow in time. I don't have time. I miss, like, feeling powerless. And Raina responded to that, so do I. And that was on my mind watching this, like, in a really striking and sad way for Raina. And as we noted, this is new Raina Cannon for us, because the nettle swap, as we mentioned last week. This is the Monkey's Paw season is what you're saying. Yeah. And this idea of like, okay,

I took a source of conflict. This are the dragons, too big or small. I made an opportunity. Interesting. Fast thinking. I agree. I would not have revealed that I was the rider to anyone. But still, Raina has finally gotten the thing that she wanted more than anything a dragon. And it's not even just, I can't celebrate. It doesn't feel the way I always thought it would. It's, I can't even go home. I feel like I am isolated and exiled from my family, from my inheritance, from all of it. And that is just such a, on the mislike feeling powerful, powerless front,

to finally have a dragon, the thing that should make you feel most powerful and to feel less. just sure in your footing? Not just most powerful, but most accepted by your family. Most valuable, most needed. Yeah, that Raina felt always on the outside, that Bala was on the inside because Bala had a dragon and Rana was on the outside and her dad had no time for her. And she finally found the thing that is supposed to like, you know, she was sent away to babysit because she's useless. And she's like, look at me, I'm useful. Oh, no. Jays is dead. Duff. It's brutal. It's sad. But we do have some cheerful songs.

It is time to head to me. to a post-fish-feed musical interlude. And let's just quickly establish, Joanna. You mentioned the bloodiest battle part, the bloodiest lamb battle of the dance of the dragons began the next day. The fish feed, we kind of wondered last week, okay, are we getting fish feed? Are we not?

Where are you now that we know definitively that the battle is something that has acknowledged? It has happened. We understand that it has transpired, but it was not given to us on full on screen. Does this make sense to you as a, feel like the right choice because it does not feature that many central characters, even with Damon added in.

I'm not mad about it other than, like, you know, maybe the visual of all the bodies on the lakeshore would have been cool. But they gave us bodies on the beach at the Gullet instead, and that's fine. And that took a lot of time and looked incredible. I will just say this. There are other battles to come that I would be more upset to lose, said this. said this one. I think that's where I'm, if we're, if we're bargaining, I can, I can take a song for this battle any day.

I agree. I think like kind of, uh, just thinking about the idea that this is the bloodiest land battle, not getting it feels kind of inherently, I think a little odd, but I'm with you. If that's a choice that's made to really center some things that are, are yet to come. I'll be, I'll be fine with it. Yeah. Here's the real question, though, are we fine with the song? Because we get this post-battle song.

You're the musical expert, and I needed to take me through. My feeling was, Alice, with three fingers, this was not. Yeah, it wasn't my favorite. Yeah. But then I talked to in front of the pod, Jenny O'Youngs, and Jenny was like, this is actually my favorite musical moment in all of Game of Thrones. Because I was like, maybe I need to hear like the national or the hold steady version of this to, like, feel more connected to it.

Okay, what was Jenny's case? Jenny says this. Music is of by and for the people, and it's nice that they're doing a war camp, drunk, in celebratory, very rough around the edges sort of deal. And she compared it Alice with three fingers, which is another similar sort of thing. But I think to my ear, slightly better executed. We're going back and forth on whether or not this is supposed to be like they came up with the lyrics on the fly sort of thing.

They're kind of performing it as if they are. But then there are moments when everyone's singing the same lyrics together. And they're all like very specific to the fish feed. So it's not like. Jenny was bringing up this tradition, both like midi. evil music and like Delta blues and stuff like that, of songs that like the lyrics change all the time because you don't have like recorded versions of them. And so you just like have the tune and the rough framework and then you change the music all the time, the words all the time.

So she, like an example, she was like, green sleeves becomes what child is this? Like this is a, you know, this is a thing that happened. So if there is like a standard frame for this is a battle song we sing and they're like, red fork, red fork, which is the one that they did last week or, you know, whatever or goll it, gall it. You know, if there was like a similar one they did and this is like, fish feed, fish feed. Yeah. Again, there are some lyrics that are very specific to the battle that everyone is singing, that I have some questions about it.

In terms of like tonality. Yeah. Beautiful Oscar Tully with his like gorgeous curls that I was wondering if, you know, when Damon's looking at him when he gets the news about Jace, I was wondering if he was like looking at Oscar, a young man. And it's like, are you ready to step up and mock? We need a new Mock King. Like, thinking about Jace.

because Damon does not take any time really to really in our eyes marinate in the loss of Jace. No, I mean. I was wondering if like that's the one moment where he looks at young Oscar Tully and he's just sort of like these young boys at war with beautiful curly hair. Anyway, Oscar Tully, not the most tuneful singer I've ever heard in my entire life. Matt Smith can sing. Black Allie is here. Black Allie is here. A character that we're excited to see.

She's also singing Tommy Flanagan. is just kind of roaring his way through it. I seems to be having the dime of his life. Great time. But Jenny's point, and I agree, is she was, like, in this age of, like, AI perfection and, like, you can auto-tune anything into perfection. I kind of like seeing just, like, rough and rowdy. Yeah.

And I was reminded, I know I've told you before that I've done this, like, Red Fair camping thing, SEA. One year, my friend Amy and I made up a song about grilled cheese. We were trying to bully our friends into making us late-night grilled cheeses at the campfire. We made up a song on the fly about grilled cheese. Yeah. And then people just kept adding verse. Like, it was like this.

Like, people just kept adding verses. It was very simple. Yes. But you just need to, like, come up with our rhyming couplet to sort of get there. But I was like, oh, yeah. When we built the grilled cheese song, it had harmonies. It had like a refrain. And then people were just adding lyrics to it.

Like, that is true. And then someone wrote it down and it became like sort of enshrined. But we did create it on the fly. So maybe that's what happened. Is it available on Spotify for stream? One can only hope. I did like that capturing the communal spirit

of a battle waged and survived together and like working to commit that to history in real time. The record, yeah. Yeah, I thought that was really interesting. It's just, I think, also fair to say that it will not be a song. Well, you know what? I was going to say it not be a song

that people will be singing and quoting the way they do, the bear in the maiden fair or whatever. And yet we have spent basically all of the last few days shouting to each other. Fish, feed, fish, feed. So maybe I should fuck right off. Maybe it's a banger. And hear what the hold steady does with it. You know, somebody think about it.

Anyway, I just, I'm mixed about it. But something I was thinking about is like, as they're chanting like fish feed and talking about, you know, all the people who died in the battle, right? Now we can't see the water's war because the lake's full of their bones, like all that sort of stuff. With his one good eye, he lacks a prick. Like, all of that is very good. What is Jace, if not food for fishes? I mean, Baylor did fish him out, but, like, he died in the water. Like, you know, and they're like, yeah, we won this one.

Fish feed, fish, feed. But, like, the fish was feeding on their side at a different battle, you know, across the continent. Yeah, I love that. And the kind of hush that falls over. over the collective when Damon is, you know, Damon is the only one reading these words, but right away before he says aloud, the heir to the throne has been killed, they can clock it, they can tell right away that something is wrong. Oscar asks him, is something a miss? And it's, when we're talking about the growth and evolution of Damon's character,

he did not beat the shit out of the person who brought him the scroll this time, as he did in season one. So, you know, progress. So let me think about it. We're a long way away. from the stepstones, but the crowd feeder is always in our heart. Yeah, I thought on the like, does Oscar remind Damon of, like, is he thinking about Jason just the young man? I did think, especially because it is, and we love the Damon Alice scene. So I was delighted to get the scene that we're going to, the sequence that we're going to talk about next. But it is high comedy that Damon is like, Jace has been killed. Yeah.

This massive battle has transpired. and I have been summoned to help Reneer take the iron thrown. It could not be any more urgent moment. He's like, got to go check in on Big Al. Hysterical. You know what else it does? He fixes his hair. Well, I mean, the braid, the curls.

I love this. This is the wig that I was telling you last week I was like sort of waiting for. It's like this kind of half unraveled braided the back. I love it. But he does clean it up. Cleans up the edges. Wow. And like re-twirls the little like four front pieces.

You're checking it with the side piece. You know, you got it. To go talk to. You gotta look sharp. You gotta look sharp. I did like that just moment, though, where he's sitting on the log and he just, for a second, like, closes his eyes and kind of takes a breath and lowers his head. And, like, you can see the grief on his face for a second there, which is nice. And Oscar's, like, right there.

It's an interesting moment. There's a somberness to it. Yeah. And Oscar Tolly, it's been two years. His voice is dropping a wee bit. I know. It's not quite there. I know.

It's increasingly, like, because, as you know, and especially, I mean, now that Black Alley is here. Black Alley, we should say, for non-book readers, is a character who is proficient in battle. You'll have seen her singing in the Fish Feed song. She's got this sort of like black makeup, old black makeup on her face. That's Black Allie, Blackwood. But, um, Ali Blackwood. Hopefully she'll get to do some fighting as well as the singing because she's a badass warrior. I think so. And so, of course, she's Bloody Ben's. Did I never miss an opportunity to mention a young Benjikot, Bloody Ben. And, you know, we're assuming that Oscar is just subbing in for him in full.

Benjikot. Benji's 11. So now that's what made me think of it when you're like, Oscar is, like, grown up. Yeah. Benji's 11. And he, like, sobs when he sees all the bodies. And he cries because there's a lot of bodies. Which is so good.

Because he's 11 and he's in battle. He's just a sweet dog. Oh, Thrones. Black Allie is here. Oscar Tully's here. And Damon says to them to, to, because he's like, I got to go. I got to check him with Allison, then I got to go. March.

Let me in Kingsland. Light Garrison at Heron Hall. Light. Some toasty snacks for Vagar. Leave it at Harenhall. Incredible later when he's lecturing Ulf and Hugh on not, he just, there's no doubt in his mind that they're all dead. Oh, they are all dead. Krustini.

And they are. You know what I mean? And they are. And he's like, come on South. Yep. Right? Yes. Do you want to break the map out again?

So they're going south. Yeah. Something I think about. Yeah. Chris and Cole's going north. Indeed. I liked to. We will be the queen's fist.

Did it make you think of Vader's fist? The 500 first? No, it was once again thinking of bone temple. It's always always thinking of bone temple. Always thinking of bone temple. Great stuff. Alice. We already talked about the most important thing that happens in this scene, which is

cracks. He's drinking water so we can move on to the rest. He just looked so cute. He just looked so cute. And again, it's just they're, I appreciate they're just putting dragons and shots where, like, a dragon doesn't have to be. You don't have to have caraxies right there. You know what they're doing a lot more of after years of Dave Gonzalez and others pointing out that they never did it? Oh, disembarking. I have noticed. I have noticed. And in the House of Dragon belts, they, like, showed the rigging of, like, how they, yeah, the blue ladder thing. It works. I know. It looks good. It looks great. It makes you wonder why they weren't. I'm always doing so many disembarkments this season. I've noticed. I have noticed. Shout out, Dave. Shout out Dave. I meant to text you guys about that.

Let me ask you a question. You have to pick. Yeah. Which of these things would you least like to hear from another person who is standing right next to you saying these things to you about you? I have seen that you're coming has been an omen of the end. Doesn't she say and also or a beginning of something else? Yes. Okay, silver lining. Okay, sliver lining. Or go home, Damon. But do not come back here.

Remember what I told you. Which was, of course, you will die in this place. I'm going to go with Oman at the end with a side helping. Every cloud. Of the beginning of something else. Every cloud. A silver lining of death. I just love the ominous signs and portents, portents and signs.

And every Alice in an Alice exchange, it is such a rich text. Damon's just like us, Joe. He's like, what do you really up to? What's your real purpose been? What do you want? What does she tell him? She wants Heron Hall. She wants a castle.

You know, it's interesting. All right. So this is something we talked about when we talked about Heron Hall last season. Yes. Is there's some, like, interesting quotes about sort of, like, where, what Heron Hall looks like. You talked really interestingly on Talk to Thrones about sort of Alice mentioning the wearwood trees that had been raised in order to build it. It's in the beams. It's, you know, his head, Damon's headboard, you know, like, just wearwood wood everywhere.

But the shape of Harenhall itself, Jamie says, the towers of Black Haren's Folly appeared at last five twisted fingers of black misshapen stone grasping for the sky. This idea of Heron Hall is emblematic of, like, reaching and grasping for something. Baylish, who is like awarded Harenhall at one point, he's like, fucking great. Who wants that cursed? I want a haunted fucking castle. No, thank you. He says, Heron Hall has withered every hand to touch it.

No, thank you. You know, and so, like, heron hall is this, like, like, the castle version of a monkey's paw, right? Like, everyone who grabs it. And Alice says this. She's like, they've all mismanish it. You know what I mean?

These dumb dudes don't know what to do with the castle. They all think they want it. Yes. It's so big, but it's so cursed. And so it's like, that's the throne for Rainier. That's the dragon for Raina. that's what this is, and this is, in castle form, that's what Heron Hall is. I love it.

Spooky. Spooky. And then the question is, like, would it be different? Don't want it. Oh, John. Would it be different for Alice? Like, is the nature of her mysterious existence and her magic? You know, we talked, we mentioned this on, uh, talked to Thrones on Sunday, but

Gail Rankin, the performer, you know, telling Entertainment Weekly last year that Alice, like, could be 400 years old. We have these. Hot. I mean, looking. Yeah, looking great. You made the nalessandra cop that should, of course, be on our minds. You know, who was this woman? We've shared this fire and blood quote before. A serving wench who dabbled in potions and spells, says monk in a woods witch claimed septine eustaceous. A malign enchantress who bathed in the blood of virgins to preserve her youth mushroom, naturally, would have us believe. I know that let people call us cackling witches because of an absolutely iconic two-star review that we've. got on iTunes. Maline enchantress is pretty hot. Yeah. Do you prefer from this episode to pull that maligned enchantress out of fire and blood or to just go right to court of cunts from Agon?

I prefer malign enchantress. Thank you so much. We have a split vote here on the panel today. All right. Well, you can be head of the court of cuntz and I could be the malign enchantress. The merch would sell. But you have to do it in the court of mist and fury sort of like court of Thorne and Rose's font. Great. I'm through three of the five books and a couple pages of book for. Sergei Moss don't sue us. Oh, man. Great stuff. But yeah, like Alice's, I loved your Lorax comp last week. She speaks for the trees. Speaking for the trees and this connection to the nature and the people of this place, but just like the magic of it too that isn't extricable from the nature of it, the way that Alice has talked about the creatures and maybe is presenting.

and manifesting as those creatures, right? But, like, I did. You're team goat now, aren't you? Absolutely team good. And it's hard not to be when the character's just like, I'm a barn owl. And also a goat. Which would you rather be? A barn owl, you can fly.

Yeah, it doesn't, is it fun to be a goat? They are cute. Well, they're cute and spooky. You can be milked. Could be nice. Get him into here. I'm good. Thank you so much.

I saw a really cute video of an owl taking a... Getting milked? No, taking a bath and a bowl. It was precious. Kind of like washing the tush. That's really cute. That's just my Instagram algorithm. I don't know what to say.

An owl you like hang out in the forest at night and like scare people and fly around. Or you could deliver mail. Alpost. You can do that? All of it. I'm not working if I'm an owl. You're just, you're just chilling. Are you figuring out how many licks it takes to get to the center of a tutsi pop?

Three. The world may never know. It's three. I do think the fact that, because, you know, we talked about this as well, but, like, Laris citing the curse of Harenhal to Allison to a very memorable season one scene after he has burned his father and brother alive. And that's, like, interesting, too. Like, what choices do people make that they can then pin on the curse? Where do people see the curse acting and guiding when it's the shitty things people do?

My favorite in that umbrella is when Alice last season was like, you know, I'm kind of a maister here. The last maister, I don't know, fled in the night, really weird. Don't know what happened to him. Could have, maybe I sent him spooky dreams. Who's to say? I don't know. And, like, we're reminded here when she's like, I secured the 40,000 river troops.

By murdering an old man. By murdering Grover. Yeah. In his sick bed. I slew a Muppet for you. Tough. Laris had that, like, my dad, you know, thought maybe a maligned enchantress did something to my foot.

sorcery, sorcery in the mix when I was a baby. So there's all of that. Like how many things has Alice been doing to try to get these mortal men out? Even like we've been talking about, you know, the, yeah, you did these things for Damon, you helped him amass this army. Is it just to get that army out of there, right? You told the seeds to go to the gullet. Was it to help?

Or to get them out of there so they don't burn your castle, etc. It's all interesting. But I have to ask. Yeah, tell me. Do you think fewer people would have died or fewer walls or arched would have been scorched and crumbled if Vermithor and Silver Wing and Seasmoke had taken down Vagar. I feel like Vagar did plenty of damage all on her own, you know? I think it's probably worse if they're all there.

I think that Vagar at least took out some support beams in a contained fashion, whereas if the dragons are all thrashing into each other, I mean, especially a fucking olf is in the mix. It's come on. It's absolute chaos. Not the thoughts. But so, Joe, it's not just the question of the magic and what Alice sees there. It's Damon's response. This is something that we were fascinated by.

Carlos, can we see this? I will speak with her. Perhaps there is some other reward she may extend your way. Some other reward. I ask for food and you offer me rubies. For all their worth. They will never satisfy my hunger. That's spark from Damon.

Oh my God. He's like, it's still working for me, honestly. He did not literally... He hungas. slap Alice in the face the way he did Ulf, but... We don't give castles to midwives. First of all, puts up respect on midwives.

Yeah, for real. By the way. Secondly, fuck you, dude. A midwife. I mean, by the way... No name, no title, no, noble husband. No, no, fuck you. Brittle.

Fuck you, dude. Yeah, I thought this was really good. I think what is really interesting about this episode is um... The, like, what has value, right? You offer me rubies. Yeah. But, you know, that's not what I want, right?

Alan, I have nothing to give you now but my name. And yet I count that of more worth than a mountain of gold. Right. Yeah. And I have gold enough to buy her birth, blah, blah, like talking about, like, what it is that Agon wants versus what it is that Laris can give him, et cetera, et cetera. So I just think all of that is really interesting to me. But Alf would love some rubies. He wanted a castle.

He's already best. Also, here's the deal. Inside of this episode, now we know that Allison did a lot of work behind the scenes. Yes. But if Damon worked to tell the tale of taking King's Landing, he would say, you know what got us the throne? The loyalty of my men, my gold cloaks who I used to throw some raging parties for and I let them rape whoever they want and we gilded people and it was great. We were pros together. That's team management.

That's loyalty. Right. Yeah. How's he managing his team these days? Yeah. You know, like he's doing a good job with the Riverman and the Winterwolves. Like, he's just scrapping it up with them. And they're, they're going to be like, Damon, what a guy.

Alice is not going to say that. No. Hugh and Ulf are not going to say that. Taking for granted the people who are helping them achieve what they are achieving currently. And I understand it's different. It's different to be like, I'll be the benevolent boss of the gold cloaks. Yeah. Then here are two upjump dragon riders who are, you know, like, it's more threatening to

him for them to like ask for things and want things because they have dragons. And that's like a different math to him. Right. But at the same time, I'm just sort of like, here's, here's the payoff. Yes. Of a lesson. Yes, exactly. Yeah. And you're refusing to learn from it. Yeah. When you see something like the Luther Damon scene or even something like Allison and Renera and the conversation between Damon and Masario about like, can that still hold this history that they have together? Like putting stock in earning, earning loyalty. from somebody and forging a bond that could potentially stand the test of time, the fact that there are like turns and cloak turns or just turns across the divide,

across the teams. And inside of the teams, there are all of these like, wait, do you know whether you could trust this person? Are you giving them the thing that they need so that they stick around? It's just like a really interesting place to find these characters. I think with Ulf and Hugh, there's so much nuance because like you could also still say, as we talked about a lot last season in covering the sewing, it's insane to put these people you don't know it, to give them weapons of mass destruction.

You don't know them and you have given them this power. Ulf especially, right? So Adam, Adam is an angel, an angel. But it makes it all the more important to say, you have this tool now that we have armed you with. And like maybe when you ask me a question, me, Damon, I'll at least like to show you the fucking dignity to answer you before just marching

upstairs. Renera doesn't, when Alphen and Hughes show up so they can all mount their dragons to head to King's Landing, Reneer doesn't even speak to them. Does not even speak to them. So certainly, certainly something to track. You're a great manager. Just don't let you know. Thanks.

There might be some different opinions among the group, but I appreciate it. It's kind of you to say. Courtless. Yeah. He lost everything. on his team. What is my name? Sorry.

Alan and Adam searching for their father by sea and by sky. I liked when we got one, Moon Dancer and Bela flew overhead. We got that shot of Alan looking up. It reminded me of Adam looking up when Sea Smoke was passing overhead, you know, the dragons sort of entering the fray for the folks who grew up with the fleet. Bela comes to help. Alan has been shouting his father's name looking for him, and Bela comes to not only help with the search, but to just talk to him.

And this is an interesting sequence between these two characters. She's like, don't give up, right? People have been doubting whether my grand sire is going to make it through. And we know that that's true. I mean, part of the reason that Vaman was able to go into the fucking throne room and call Luceris a bastard and challenge Reneira's claim. And Luke's claim as Erdrift Mark that publicly is because Corliss was about to drop dead. Everyone thought he was going to die. I can't believe you've brought up Vaman multiple times in this back head.

I think that's the third time. That's nuts. What is going on? No one else to remember. Two caracoboles and three vehemence. What is happening? My God. Like, to apologize to you and to everyone.

Here's the question I have. Did Corlis need rescuing? He was like, basically on the shore and his face was above the water line. And he was just like sort of being like buffeted a bit against the rocks, but was not in like real danger of drowning. It seemed like. I feel like he would have gotten up on his own eventually. He would have been okay. Does the fact that he...

Especially they don't take him directly to a maister, they just take him to a log, you know? Yeah, to a log to sit and reflect and look at his burning legacy. Yeah. Does the fact that he was completely fine despite being thrown into the drink in his kit? Does it, where are you on Thailand? Tlandaster watch, given that Corliss is A-OK? I genuinely don't know what to say to you about this. You think he's dead.

You think he's toast. I just think it's so, like, we're curious because we don't, Thailand doesn't die in the Battle of the Gullet in the book. So we're like, did they just kill this character? We're not sure. can whatever he does in the book be done by someone else? Or does he have to make a triumphant return? And if he makes a triumphant return, are people going to remember who the hell he is? Well, let me tell you this.

The Otto High Tower came back in this episode and we hadn't seen him for two calendar years. But he was a main character on the show for an entire season. That was never the case for either Jason or Thailand, Lannister. Jason Lannister really wanted to be a main character. I feel like if Thailand shows up, people are going to be like, didn't that guy's head go on a pipe? Yeah, you're probably. You're probably right. It's worse because they're twins.

I don't know. And then they'll come to this podcast and we will say he mud wrestled with Loher. Don't you remember? Laris mentions him in this episode. Thailand, that fucker. The legacy lives on. The legacy lives on. Hashtag Tylin lives.

I'll give that to you. Hashtag makes a solo too happen. I think he's dead. I think he's dead. Let's make a bet. Because we genuinely don't know. I have no idea. And I would say my confidence is like,

Eh? So... I mean, I feel similarly kind of... Okay, what should we bet? Let's have the bad babies way in. Hobbits and dragons at gmail.com. If you can think of the stake we should make on the life of Thailand, Landister, everyone's favorite and most important character

in House of the Dragon. Great. Put it on the board and then if it may be pays off in season four, we won't even remember the bet, let alone the character. Oh, my God. Imagine if Thailand doesn't come back till season four. Honestly, seems completely in play to me. It does.

There are only six episodes left in season three now. Season three is almost over. I'm crazy. The other thing that Bela does, in addition to say... If Jefferson Hall... Have hope. Messages you. No insider trading.

If you get insider info... Jefferson, hit me up. No. Hit me up. If you're listening, let me know. No. No, I would never deceive you. I have no secrets from you.

We loved you and Tenet. Message me. Oh my God. We loved you in Tenant. Incredible. Bela is also just trying to help Alan, like, understand who Corlis is. And this was nice not only to watch kind of a bond forming between Bela and Alan here,

but because Bela does have history. You know, she was Corliss and Rainis's ward, right? These are people she grew up with, her grandparents, the closeness, life in their home. Yeah. And the comfort that Bela had in challenging Corliss, but also Baila's ability to reach Corliss, right? Like when Reneer wanted Corlis to be hand, it was Baylor. who finally is just like, you're salt and see, I'm fire and blood. Yeah.

But let's have a chat about how you're processing all of this and what is the appropriate way to actually channel these emotions. You need a slither puff. And then she says how tired chis of losing people, which was quite sad. And then later in the episode, but we'll talk about it here, Adam finds Corliss washed up like you noted. And then the whole family sits together. Corliss, Adam, Alan, and Beala looking out at the ruins of High Tide. Yeah. And Corliss is like, Alan.

Yeah. And only Alan. It's like Adam, you've got a dragon. You're good. Alan. Alan, we've had a lot of conversations about how I failed you though. I will give you my name. Alan.

You, my son. I will give you my name. Adam, you're also here. Adam smiled, though. He seemed pleased. He seemed pleased with the development. He's like, by the transitive property. Is that am I included in this deal?

I just would have like. And also you, Adam. I know. Alan Valerian sounds great. Adam of Hall. Adam Valerian. Come on. Make it happen. Wonderful surname.

You know, they're looking at high tide, Joe, and we should just say, because I wouldn't be shocked if some people were watching this and they're like, Castle looks fine. Certainly a lot of smoke, a plume of smoke, but like maybe go check, see if anything survived.

We do know from Book Cannon, it's a rap. Spice Town, the whole town burn. Every member of Corlis' household of the Valerian household, hunted down and killed. It's, Yeah.

We've entered a new phase. It's over. It's Jover. It's all over. It's over. What is you, so when Alan says, when Corley says, you know, I have nothing to offer you now, but my name and Alan says, you know, that's all I've ever wanted. I thought it looked like Coral, it was interesting to think about Corliss's relationship to like the idea of the name, right? You know, we've talked about this over the seasons.

Like the history does not remember blood. It remembers names. but to think of simultaneously like the consistency and the variance inside of one idea, like Corlis has also centered the name as the thing that matters. But it was about how that name was forged and established through achievement, ambition, wealth, might. You know, all of the. Yeah. And so the idea that just the, I have chosen you and brought you in could be the part of the name that mattered.

As we watch Otto die. Lesson learned. As we watch Otto die. Yeah. This episode. We should consider Corliss's hand in all of this as well, because Corliss's ambition of getting his kin on the throne has played a role in all of this, right? So he's like, we'll marry Lainor to Reneira, Lena, to Damon. You know, I will pretend that Jace and Joffrey and Luke are my grandchildren.

So, you know, a Valerian will sit on the throne, even though we renegotiated the name or whatever. But, like, one of my kin is going to sit on the throne. Jace is going to sit on the throne. Guess what? He's going to marry Bela. Yeah. Bala is also my kin. You know, I'm just going to get all kinds of Valerian blood on the throne.

That is very important to me. Those paths to the throne are not, you know, Jaff's still here. But, you know, no one knows that Jop's around. But, like, also Bala. Does Baila seem suitably heartbroken that Jace is dead? I think she's... Given that we never saw them smooch and they never really seemed like in love and love, they just really seem like gray pals.

I don't know. But also... Colleagues. Also, her path to the throne. She was supposed to be queen. And now she's not going to be queen. She doesn't really seem to care. I thought that Baila seemed to be carrying the weight of just the family's circumstance

and the fact that all of these terrible things happen to everybody around them all the time and how devastating it is. She's how tired she has to have losing people. She has to do all of the emotional labor in this scene. She's like, let me explain Corlis too. I, the woman, will explain to these men why they are so emotionally constipated around each other. Yeah. Not you, Adam, you're perfect. Adam is perfect.

I love the I love the Coralus point that you made. And I think it's interesting, too, because Reynese, when Rainis was around, did a consistently excellent job of pointing that out to him, right? of calling him out on his complicity in what had befallen their family. And he, I think, you know, Otto has some evolution. You know, the dinner before the three, this is the three strong boys toast,

really sent it all the shit. Otto had a little bit of like a smile and a nod where even with Otto, you thought, for a moment, could he find his way to accepting this? But mostly, I think we could say that Corlis has inched toward progress in a way that Otto can't claim to have. even though they both have that. You know, of course, that parallel is tantalizing,

given their hatred for each other, right? You know, one of the things that really united Corliss and Damon back in the day of the Stepstone's days was despising Otto. So all of these characters, the fact that they have certain parallels in their behaviors and their tendencies makes the fact that they despise each other all the richer, ultimately. It's going to be interesting to see where Corlis goes moving forward here. I know Corliss has a really good day when he finds out Otto's dead, you know? Me too. I hope you fucking loves it.

You know, Damon is thrilled. We should just note that in Game of Thrones, you know, as we've seen before. We don't have to guess. Damon's like, well, well, turning on each other like spiders. He's loving every second of it. James is like, the rats are, what, uncommon big? Incredible, by the way. They're like, Orwell managed to buy even a minute by saying go down to the black cells

where you definitely could have just gone on your own anyway, and there you will find Jasper Wilde, but whatever they're all making it. I felt like Matt Smith had a real like, the 11th doctor making an entrance tone to his voice. And he's like, the rats are in common bait. You know, it's just like, just like the doctor swanning into some sort of like, you know, alien fracca and just being like, well, this weird thing I said, you know. It could have just fixed his bow tie and we would have been right there. You know, look, he's ultimately doing what he finally doing what he pledged and helping Renera.

But he's still damning. He wants to be the center of things. He can't help himself. He's a showboat. He didn't make his own crown this time. Exactly. I loved that crown. I really did love that crown. That was a great one. The short hair, too. That was fun. We've really seen some amazing damon hair over the years. Wonderful. Speaking of blood hair. So a legitimate, legitimizing a bastard requires, we should just say, royal decree. We know this from Game of Thrones. We've seen this. I think of like Ramsey Snow becoming Ramsey Bolton appealing to the ruling authority to push that through. Or when Stanis, who thought he was king, was like, John Snow, would you like to be John Stark?

or Don Targ. Listen, I don't know the answer to this. So it's Adam and Allen of Hull. If Corliss recognizes them, then they get to have their, like, fun geographical bastard names. What is it around that region, would you say? Oh, interesting, because, like, Drift Mark doesn't have its own. Like I said, they're in the Crownlands, right? Okay.

I guess. So, yeah, they're going to stick with just of Hull, I guess. Because the Crownlands doesn't have a fun one? Let's see. Let's go through the mall. So we've got... Gendry Rivers. Edric Storm. Storm, rivers, water, flower, pike, snow. Sand.

Hmm. Alaria. Snow, sand, storm, flowers. Hill. Hill. Stone, rivers, waters, pike. Hillstone. Yeah.

So they'd have to be waters. Waters. Water's. Yeah. Okay. That was, yeah, Gendry. Yeah, it was Gendry Waters, right? Didn't they fuck up, Gendry?

Maybe. Because it's like the, yeah, great stuff. Anyway. Gendry. Of Hall is a great one. It's a great one. Of Hall. Adam Waters.

Alan Waters. Yeah. Pretty sick. Pretty good. Not as sick as Valarian would be. Valorian would be pretty cool. Speaking of sick. I just, I can't believe how good the egg on and Laris stuff is.

I mean, I can, but I can't. And I'm wondering if you think it's possible. possible to just pull, since I don't think anyone would call House of the Dragon of Comedy, just these scenes and bundle them and nominate the Egon and Laris show for best comedy, just so that they have the honor of finishing as a runner up to Widows Bay. What do you think? What do you think? What do you think?

I'm mistaken. I was surprised. Was like an incredible line delivery from our guy and Matthew Needham. Just like really, really good. Like, and him refreshing us all, telling up the triarchy. That's what's going on here. I mean, I just thought it was really well done. Also the raven cart, the rookery and them sort of talking in the behind the scenes about how like this is how ravens get back to, which is very strange to me.

This is how ravens get back to where they started. I'm like, you can't, don't homing pigeons just like go home? You got a cart a raven around? Doesn't make a lot. Seems inefficient. Real inefficiency. Yeah, is that like their refractory period? They need to like some R&R.

This is like their sauna and like cold bloods. wrong with the refractory period of the raven? I don't know. You know we already talked about gloating fucking court of cunts, which was iconic and hysterical, but it wasn't the funniest moment of this scene, and I think that requires a clip. It's the scream.

It's the screaming and the wailing in pain. I think it's Laris booping the guy on the head with the cage. I thought that was really funny. Incredible. This is just hysterical. I guess this was Tom Glencarnie's idea for him to go, hey, I'm on the guy with the arrow. But, yeah, I thought it was Laris Booping the guy in the head with the cage. I thought that was really good.

That was really good. What I loved about the egg on shiving is, like, there's a way to read it as, oh, it feels good, back in the thick of it, back in the fight, the cry of battle. But I think given the standing, do you or do you not need milk of the poppy because of your, debilitating anguish through line. I like to think that he is just forcing himself to shiv this guy but is so bold over by the pain that he can't help but cry out. Really amusing. Joe, they managed to escape.

As you noted on Talk to Thrones, the fun kind of element of this, the wrinkle of, you know, his brother, Amon, who wants him dead, is the one who secured the triarchy, who have come across this wagon and thus facilitate. the escape and also the fact that team black, quote unquote, another, like, what is really, what is victory really mean if all of these things happen, some of which you see and some of which you don't, unknowingly lose the usurper who actually was back in their snare, was back in their grasp, great stuff because the foe, like they pushed ashore. Yeah. But they have different ideas amid escape here about where to go. Laris, they were on the path to Duskendale. The Staunton

men were going to take them to Duskendale nearest port and then ship them to Dragonstone. And Laris is like, I've got the satchel, I've got the gold. Let's get to the forest for cover. We still can go to Duskindale. Egon wants to head further north, further up the coast, to Rook's Rest, where, as he notes, Cole has left a Garrison from the Battle of Rook's Rest that... Long and the dying. Egon believes will be loyal to him.

And then, yes, this is where Sunfire, his beloved dragon, was to quote Kristen Cole. Long in the dying. Chris noted this on Talk to Thrones. Laris' whole plan is let's escape and wait and bide our time. Yeah. Agon's actions here are not the actions of a character who is content to wait in the wings for long. Right. Duskendale, Rook's Rest, whichever, it's just due east to Dragonstone, and they're still pretty close to King's Landing.

They have not escaped the kind of thick of the character set in the action here. Allicent. we're going to do all the Allison machinations and maneuverings in one stretch here. Because these are kind of like stretched across the episode. We go in and out of different Allison scenes. But we're going to hit them all here at once. So she watches Vagar and Amin Fly Away, right? She's like, time to go.

She's like, I did it. Time to move. Yeah. First up, Dix de plenty has to go down to find Sir Luther Largent and the city watch. Yeah. The risk. the risk that Allison is taking scene after scene here.

You know, we talked last week about how bold it was to write that letter to Ormond, right? Every, she's having this conversation with Luther, but every person sees that she's there. Inside of this episode,

Rickard, finds out, spills to Jasper. So this is, there's real danger here in terms of like who has clocked what Allison is doing and could reveal it. I think, frankly, in a way that makes, there's this rich element with what's happening with Allison and like what is chronicled in fire and blood and what isn't, as we've talked about for seasons now, where on the one hand the kind of gall of like, okay, this has presented us in the text when Luther turns the cloak as because of David. You know, the bond with Damon, which he does say here as well. And maybe without that, Allison wouldn't have been able to convince him. But Allison's role on that is not recorded to history. Right. Oh, yeah. Completely erased.

Arraced. It's actually like in fire and blood, I believe that sequence with the goal cloaks. is like described as unbeknownst to Allison, right? So there's that. But the flip side of it is like, let's get a council of men, Renera. I know. And have a new vote. The great council had fine last time. Everything was fine.

Like where we are. Did you have any, was there any moment for you in this episode, this sequence, going to appeal to the high tower soldiers at the scorpions where you were like, it becomes implausible that at no point in fire and blood or in the histories it's anyone like? Oh, no, no. And actually Allison Tightower had a hand in this or no? I feel like the work of women often gets ignored.

You know? Yep. And if they're like, I don't know, the woo-woo vegetarian queen said no beast should be harmed, you know, like Helena was up here. I don't know. When we meet Helena, right, she's in the gardens. That's right. Doing her bug stuff with her bug journal. Shout out.

What's really fun is like another, I believe I'm right about this, that this is another connection to Claire Killner's episode, we light the way, because that's where when Laris finds Allison in the garden and they're talking about like the flower or stuff like that. She's still wearing red. She hasn't switched to green yet. Right. So I believe that's in we light the way. Yes. And that's when Laris is just sort of like starting to drip poison into her mind.

And it's a big moment of, of, she's already queen at that point. You know, so it's not quite when she talks to Helena about being happier before she was queen. Right. So it's not quite Allison in the garden with Ranira before she was queen. There's that innocence layer. But it's sort of like Allison's in the garden when she was still like mostly well-meaning and trying to like build bridges with Renera. Yeah. And Laris, you know, just the snake in the garden of Eden just sort of like making problems for everyone, you know.

And so to find Helena there in the garden in her like innocent state, I thought was like a really nice location for Claire Kilner to return to. I love that. That's a great shot because I was thinking of all those Alison Renera moments when they were young and what a central state. location this was for them. But the Laris one is really interesting, too, because, like, if I recall he's talking about, like, the flower that's out of place, right? And so then you have the comp here like the bug and it's not the season. And these elements, like something that feels off in the natural order because of what these people are doing. Did you take that to mean, a lot of the viewers took that to mean that, like, this was an inside joke about the fact that

this episode doesn't belong in this season of television? Well, I think given that we also then, And after that glimpse, you can freeze frame on the book, the journal that Allison picks up, which has a drawing of butterfly. And this quote, the lines are distinct as if drawn with quill, they are said to cause death to people around them while living. But so far I remain alive. I think difficult not to think of the George R.R. Martin infamous blog post, Beware the butterflies. This hadn't occurred to me. I think this is a really fun interpretation. I mean, who knows, but...

It would be really funny. Maybe it's wink upon wink in this sequence. Via production design, Ryan Condal has taken his, like, return Perry at Dorado Martin. Elysium of Nath is the name of the butterfly. That's a sick name. Elysium? Yeah. Yeah.

I love that. Ooh. Helena rules. That's just my take. Her bug journal is great. The bug journal is great. The I'd like to raise chickens is great. The no-be-shall-be-harmed and the sweet.

little facial expression. Wonderful. But also, oh my God, no beast shall be harmed. Fia, who plays Helena, is so funny because she has this great, like, I'm pretending to be exactly who I am, which is a, I donate to PETA. I'm vegetarian, you know, blah, blah. But then she, like, gives this look to her mom, like, I did it. Nail it. I crushed that.

Nailed it. Yeah, I loved that. I thought that was so charming and so good. And I like, too, that Helena in this stretch is, like, asking some hard questions. I mean, we talk a lot about Helena's dreams and visions and prophecies and, like, what does, what has she seen in that and what, in those and what hasn't she? So just the way that she was, like, seemed surprised by what Allison was saying about Reneer's on her way. And then the line of questioning about, like, wait, but, like, you did this. Remember, you made Egon King?

Like, you did this. That whole stretch, like, it's not just the cute little goofy moment. She was asking some hard-hitting questions here in a way that I appreciated and trying to piece together her own tapestry of under of like what has happened and how. A tapestry of understanding. I just love Helena. Do you think that Damon, now that he and Helena are in the same place, is going to be like, hey, remember when you were my dream last season?

I hope he asked about it. That was weird. That would be great. Should we talk about it? I hope it comes up. You were in my dream. I hope it comes up. And then the next thing he'd say would be a really weird things happen in my dream.

So was my mom. Yeah. You showing up from across space and time in my dream. Didn't even crack the top five. Didn't even crack the top five. Did you see that hot naked woman with three CGI baby dragons? Did you hear the clip-clop of the green man? Damon's the best.

What did she make of Allison saying to Helena? Because she says her daughter's happiness, right, that Helena is saying she was happier before she was queen. Cut her. Cut her deep. And she wants her child to be happy. And this is like heartening and beautiful for a couple reasons. One, nobody ever gave a shit about doing that for Allison.

That is not a gift her father ever gave her. Quite the opposite, right? But also, this contrast of Alicant making a decision, I am going to try to protect and preserve the people I love and not think about the greater picture. Conditionally, for sure. But Renira is kind of having to assess the others. Yes, yes.

The other side of that calculus is interesting. But then I thought the language of you I may yet regard. Deem was really interesting because like that is about Helena, but it's also about Allison. It's about this absolution for being a bad mom. It's definitely about Allison. She's like, Agon sucks. Aman sucks. He kissed me that sucks. That was tough. I had to ask Gawain if Darren is nice. I hear Darren's great. I hear he's great. But I had to ask because I don't know. For being far away from me. Also, you know, and we talked about this before, but if Alicent is ready to give up Aigon. Yeah. That means she's ready to give up Aeron.

and Darren as well. Yeah. Tough beat for Darren, who, as far as you know, never did anything wrong in his life. Play is a beautiful instrument. A sweet boy. And she's like, well, I'm 16. He's not Helena or Jihara, so I don't care. This remains kind of my one note on the end of this episode, which I thought was broadly

exquisite and wonderful and sets us forward in a remarkable way, is like, the looks to pass between them were charged and electric and I thought just the performance. performances were incredible. I want to boot up the next episode the second that ends. I don't think there's a plausible version of this where Allison believes that Otto doesn't also have to die. Just because the deal was a son for a son, like, Otto can't make it out of this. I think she thought he was already dead. Like, he's just been missing for two years. No, for like many, many episodes. So like, I don't think, I mean, we'll see what that fallout is. I think it's a horrifying thing to walk in on. Yes. But I don't think she could be like, how dare you kill my father?

I don't think that that's the vibe. We're in agreement because I think there has been a reception a little bit. I have seen some like, many people are saying. Many people are saying Allison is going to be so mad that are near a killed daughter. They agreed to a son for son. I don't think that's not how R. No. It's more like I think she walks in.

She's like a son for a son and also my other sons. A few sons for a son. And anyone else. A few sons for a son. Anyone wearing green. Throw around the bus. Anyone who's not. Except Talena and Dehara.

Hiding under these clearly. Recognizable and discernible as ours robes. Alicent and Damon have not always gotten along, but Allison really could have taken a tip from Damon and Mr. Murder Cloak about how to evade immediate detection here. Even Kristen Cole's stupid hat would have helped in this situation. Here's my note. What a thing to say. What a thing to say.

I know you talking about Masaria's accent flowingly and me talking about Chris and Cole's hat. Helena, I know that she doesn't want to ride her dragon Dreamfire, but she has a fucking dragon. Yeah. So like, could she and Allison not have hop skipped and jumped onto Dreamfire and flown off into the Great Blue Yonder. So they would have to get to the dragon pit. You can't be like, Dreamfire! Two weeks in a row now that we have suggested,

why doesn't the character just call this dragon to their window and fly away? I think they're like telepathically late. I think so. It's at least worth a try. Yeah. It's at least worth a try. Dreamy! Dreamy!

Or was they apprehended. Dreamfire, burn all these people. We got to go, except Helena wouldn't do that. No. She's a peaceful creature. Yeah. No beasts harmed, but there was once a beast beneath the board and a lot of small folk were harmed and everyone seemed fine with that. Just smushed.

Joe, speaking of harming the legions. Yeah. And or by legions, very small garrison left behind. Amon, taken Harren Hall at a cost. Kristen and Gawain's finally see Vagar fly overhead. That's the only scene we get with our best beloveds. And they're like, on the Harron Hall, finally at last. Do north.

Amon lands on Vagar. have seen, I mean, obviously we have the history in the canon of Vagan the Conquer, Bilarian, and these mythical moments. But we've, in just this show, seen Damon Land on Karaxies and Reneira fly in on Syrac. So we have other dragon arrivals, obviously, you know, the seeds have been there as well. The scale of Vagar. Claire Kilner said King Kong. She's going for King Kong. It was effectively rendered here. Which is funny because Godzilla's right there. But sure, King Kong. I know. Interesting. It still is right there with Vagar.

Yeah, this is incredible. Watching, you know, we had talked about this in the trailer, but watching Amon like stalk into the castle, very similar shaped to Damon. And to remind folks that one of his dreams where he is not fucking his mom, Damon dreamt of Amon in the castle was following him. And then he turns around, oops, it's just Damon himself. Because Damon's like, well, I've read the book. We're foils of each other. Anyway, so Aiman comes in and in his armor, his sick armor, that they had like a really great feature talking about how they fashioned this armor, his like one-eyed helm. That was cool.

But like, well, he might as well have the extra protection because he doesn't need to see. Yeah. That was a neat detail. Yeah. Kills a bunch of people. Something that I saw people talking about is many people are saying. So he's got the Valerian Steel store. Right?

Yeah, Blackfire. Yeah. It's called Blackfire. Yeah. Not as cool as Orphan Maker, but it'll do. Orphan Maker! He's got the Catspaugger. And we talked about this in the trailer watch, right?

That we saw that he had the Catspaugher. That's Double Valerian Steel. Sure. Yeah. No one that we've ever seen has ever done double Valerian Steel, right? I mean, Viseras just to kind of sit around. A walking stick and a belt ornament does not count. Like, no.

Yeah. Just using it to accessorize. Wait till you see the ripples and the light. Fighting with double Valerian steel. Sick. Sick. And then also, let's put some respect on Simon Strong and the various other strongs who die here. Yeah.

Who's been killed by the Catspaugh dagger? Mm. Night King. Baylish. Spoiler. The Night King. Peter Baylish. Yeah.

Yeah. And Simon Strong. Good company. Hey, Carlos, can we get a side to side of Simon Strong on the Damon and Aman mirror front, how he received both of his unwelcome. guess? This poor fucker! He just wants to eat in peace.

He's like, stop. Can you guys just stop charging in to my dining room? To eat some goose. My God. So, Damon, it's like, I don't really trust that you're not trying to poison me, but he sits and needs treats. Yeah? Not Amon.

We like to talk about the mirrors, and we also have a nice side-by-side of just their armor as they arrive to Harren Hall. Carlos is crushing it with the visual aids here. Amand, the mirrors of the landing, the dragon, the cutting down, you know, Alice has that great line to Damon in season two. It's a touch late to be talking about a strange castle putting its people to the sword. There's the Alice encounter. The difference of what happens when they meet Simon Strong and his kin, though, is quite notable.

Because Damon doesn't trust that he's not going to be poison, but he does sit and he treats, right? And he engages in to the best extent that he can, diplomacy. Now, I wouldn't say he thrives on that front, but he doesn't just immediately start cutting them down. The bars in hell and Amon did not clear it. Correct. Let's be clear. Yeah. He limboed under that bar and killed Simon Strong and a couple other strong boys, not before one of the strong boys got a shiv in him.

And we should say, we said this on Talk the Thrones, but like in this passage in fire and blood, part of the reason why Amon kills Simon Strong and the rest of the strong household is his history with people with that surname. meeting Jace and, you know, Dauphrey and Luke and all of them, the strong boys. Can't wait to end the strong family line here. And there's also just the fact that like Simon, the fact that Simon greets him warmly and is like, all right, we didn't expect you, but come sit, welcome. It actually for Eamon just reinforces that Simon turned the castle over too easily to Damon. Slipping and flopping. He's like, you're done. He's trying to pull Alaris, which is like, no matter who invades.

I'm ready to welcome them. Alice also ready to welcome, sort of seemingly. But I like that she show one of my, our favorite things about Alice greeting Damon is that everyone is kneeling and Alice just like walks in and her knees are like, my knees don't bend. Not for you, sir. No, she does not bend the knee for him. And then we see her just sort of like looming over Aymond here. And like, you know, we were asking Chris what he thought that exchange looked like. I'm just excited to see it play out.

But here they are. Amund and Alice in Harenhall. Yeah. With the mortal wound. And that wound, that stabbing, is a show choice. This is a new little element here. And I thought it was a great choice, both to have Amand who, you know, is this fearsome, fabled warrior who rides the biggest dragon and actually finally puts on armor for once,

still just because of the hubris that waylays all of these characters get caught by a guy who's no fighter at all. incredible detail and an incredible touch. Good job, Guy. You died anyway. A lot of death via like cheek jaw wound in this season so far. That's a, that's a signature hot D move so far. You know what else died that way? Who? Vatement. Wow, that's what a whole fucking head give. The prosthetic having the to be just an all-time bit of prosthetic. I just thought I would bring up our favorite character Raymond. Fourth time. Is it four? I believe this four. Vagas did not have that one on the board, folks. No, they didn't. No, they didn't. And then, yeah, like the

the kind of helpless aspect of being prone at Alice's feet as he's bleeding out, but also like, you know, those vulnerable visuals we have of A-Mand or like him naked curled up with Sylvie drinking the mother's milk. So this is just great. Really, really, really exciting to see. How old is Alice? Could be 400 years old. Could be 400 years old.

Well, what's that going to do to a guy with a mommy complex? Tune in to find out. The milfiest of old milves. Oh, my God. Alice. Jesus. Talk about something to put on the merch. I love it.

Masaria, Damon, the seeds. Damon is back. He has flown to Dragonstone. And after chatting with Alice, after redoing his hair. After participating in the battles that he's not there for in the book, he's, you know, this is all this little show update here for our guy Matt Smith. It's all working. And we already talked about this exchange with these guys, but he's just like guys it was two days. Ulf and Hugh.

He just lays into them. There's the slap, which we talked about. But the withering rebuke. I was unaware that her grace the queen had required of you in this moment or any other. Your thoughts. I mean, this could not be more condescending or more of a diminishment. Like, this is fucking brutal. And they did fuck up.

But is this the way to navigate it? Probably not, Damon. What would you have done? Would you have said, like, Ulf does not want to be there? Yeah. He's like, camping sucks. I don't want to be here, right? If you're Hugh and Adam, especially if you're Adam, are you just like, I'll stay here, you go find out what the queen wants us to do?

Yeah. You know? Yeah. Hugh and Adam had stayed there, you know? Like, you don't want to be caught alone with Begar, for sure. No, for sure. Yeah. But, like, go find out what we're supposed to do.

Or, like, send a message? Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Adam's like, I got to go to the gullet and just set out this entire King's Landing invasion. Incredible moment that went off here. It's like, Adam left too. Adam left two

My guy, Tom Bennett So good Amazing And then he finds Masaria Damon finds Masaria Sure does I loved your comment on Talk the Thrones About the shot of the two of them

Looking like a painting Like when they're sitting on that bench together I just love that framing In the distance and the arch And then like The unknowable figures of history He's in the dark armor She's in the light dress

And their hair You know it's just this like Real Yingang sort of I love that I went back and looked at it after you said that. I just really love it. So much, well, last time I said that someone did paint that. So never mind. I'm not asking anyone to paint something.

But like that would be a cool painting to have. Paint it. Masaria and Damon at the end of a hallway. Yeah. That would be great. Or, I don't think they've even made the meme yet that you asked for. So I don't know if painting is happening. Babies, what are you doing?

What are you doing? Take me through this exchange between Damon and Masaria and all of the different aspects of their history with each other, with Reneira. Reneira's history with Allison, so many elements of this were called upon here in this exchange. I guess I'll sum it up with a tweet I saw, which is like that feeling when your husband and your sidepiece talk about you getting back together with your situation ship. That covers it, I think. Yeah. So David and Missari used to fuck.

Yes. David and Renira have certainly fucked plenty. Mm-hmm. Masaria and Reneira smooch, did they do more than that? Could be, who knows? Even if it's just the smooch, Damon has clocked the vibes. Sexual attention. Clocked it.

And so, but more than anything, more than like the sort of tangled sexual web we're weaving here. Yeah. Which, plenty of people would also include Alicent and Reneira's vibes inside of that. For sure. Yeah. What we're doing right now is we're jockeying for who's got. got prime placement in Reneer's ear. Who's got the most influence on her?

Right. Miseria getting a little sweaty with her like, hey, remember, who was loyal to you? I hope you send it for me. Here's the crown. You're going to need it. You know, and Damon's like, girl, come on. That was a little needy. You know, but they're both worried about Allison. And they both are House of Our listeners.

And they're like, did you hear they were girls together? They were girls together. I like that even they can find common ground. and it's not trusting Allison, you know? I really, I like with Dame, I really love with Damon. I mean, he's our, he's our shared, he actually is our shared favorite character, right? He's a high on the list. There are a lot.

There's a lot of love. It's tough because Matt, Matt's, I don't know, like, who's my favorite character on House of the Dragon? It's really hard. Do I have to pick someone I want to, like, root for, or do I have to pick some? No, I don't. Obviously, I don't. Yeah. Just someone you like to watch.

I genuinely think it's late. So has. I'm sorry. It's not Damon. It's not the Cargles. I can only be myself. It's either Laris or Alice. Like, that's where I am. It's the truest version of you. Yeah. And we are lucky to be here to witness and receive it. A witch or a schemer. I really think those two are... Which stuff go. I do love Damon in this episode. And I think it's interesting. Again, once again, my favorite History of Westro's podcast. Like, Aziz was dropping those, like, quotes about Damon from the text that are just about like sort of like the way in which he was both. admired and reviled in the kingdom and how you get sort of the full scope of him inside of this episode. This is like an incredible Emma Reneer episode, but it is a really good Damon episode, too. And especially for like when Emma and Matt talk about season two, you know, Emma, Darcy

talked about being in the throne room. This is the, the walk to, the bloody walk to the throne is the first thing they filmed coming back to season two. And Emma was like being back in, there was something about being back on the set of the Red Keep. Yeah. I really felt like I was back in the heart of the show that I'd been off on, like, Dragonstone Island for so long. And Matt Smith has said, I would say some less diplomatic things about, like, finally back with some actors that, and I'm just like, kill rank and rules. Like, you got to share. But they didn't love being at Haran Hall for the entire season.

You know, so they're, like, sort of like, back in the heart of the story, the two of them. And this is just, like, an incredible showcase for both of them. It really is. And I loved the, I mean, the quality of the performance, but also just these, like, subtle beats. show us when characters are kind of like great Gatsby, you know, boats borne back ceaselessly into the past, like the current just pushes them into their old tendencies. Careless. And when we actually...

Would you say that Reneera and Damon are careless, like Tom and Daisy? It's smashing. I would. And when do we actually see progress? Is the thrown the green light? What's happening? It might be. Wow. Fitzgerald, like the bard.

Welcome here on a house of our episode. West egg, dragon egg. It's all the same thing. Kind of. You know, I mentioned earlier, like, Renice having to explain to Damon at the beginning of season two what it would be like for her mother to grieve in this way. And he was like, the queen is shirking her duties. It's the opposite here. You know, one of the things from Masaria questions is like, are you questioning Reneira?

And he's like, no, actually. I'm questioning you. I'm questioning them. Things like that. He's like, but I've seen the light. It's like, I still have notes. I had a vision. I had a vision.

And there was a blonde chick with dragons at her breast. I'd love to tell you about it. Don't ask what else I dream of. Don't ask what else I see. He's like, I've seen season one of Game of Thrones sensation. Everyone's going to love it. You're going to love it.

Oh my God. Season one, really good. He'd be right. He was right. When Masaria was, like, briefly, his prisoner, as she recalls here at the beginning of season two. Oh, yeah, they fucked and also he imprisoned her. That was tough. That was tough. Not everything's about you, Damon.

Not everything's about you, Damon. the Jacob Ben. What about you? What about you? Oh, it's tough. What hurts more? That or the... That's a lost reference.

I don't think about you at all. They're both so fucking brutal. But Damon was like... I think what about... Oh, yeah. This is... Sorry to keep talking about Thrones Twitter, but it's really like doing it for me.

Someone pointed out that Reneera has not like seen, I think seen or mentioned Kristen Cole since the whole oranges and cinnamon conversation. That can't quite. be true. But like since, since like for, for a while. Yeah. Whereas he is where he's just caught like that bitch. That fucking bitch, Reneer. And she's just like, who? Kristen Homes? I've moved on. I've moved on. Kristen, huh? No. So he's Cyril and she's Cassian. Who are you? He's Ginsburg and she's Don Draper. I don't think about you at all.

It's so good. Put those two in an elevator. Stat. Um, Masaria is truthful when she says, because Damon's like, do you trust the queen's judgment, right? And she's like, I wouldn't be here if I didn't. And I think we did see enough in season two to understand that Masaria chose to stand by Rainira, like, for a valid reason, that you are steadfast, right? And like, what would Renera do for the... Well, they're both progressives. You know? Yeah.

I think they would vote down ballot together, right? Renira, like, any feedback on the platform? Masaria's like, get those kids out of the fighting pits. Right? And Reneira, I think, would be like, yeah. Yeah. Otto's like, I'll get to it. Reneer's like, yeah.

Yeah. And then Damon's like, you put egg on on the throne and she's like, nope. But then we go back to the infamous season one penultimate episode and she said to Otto, remember. She was a little pissy at that moment. She had some vengeance to exact. But listen. Jealousy, though. Two episodes in a row.

Turn and Satan into the sea? Sure. I don't. Is that the lyric? Keep going. Masaria is jealousy. Something to track, something to watch, something to think about. But it is time for a more intimate exchange between just Damon and Renera,

because someone has to tell Reneira that Vagar has left Kings Landing at last, and Damon's like, I'm up, I'll do it. Goes in, Reneer's in pajamas and bib. Jim Jams. Just such a deeply relatable human moment. Loved it. And the first exchange here is... If it were you...

Yeah. What else would be there? Is it like a hot water bottle? Is it some tea? Am I in bed or on the couch? You're in bed in your gym jams. Just probably a water. A water.

Yeah, a bottle of water. Probably a book. Okay. Shades down. That's a very like austere sort of like, bring me my bottle of water. I'm like, give me my hot chocolate. On the couch under the blanket of sadness? 12 different pillows.

Beverages of plenty. But in bed really just water. Okay. Yeah. Oh, okay. Oh, okay. I understand. Yeah, I don't like spill.

Yep. I understand. I understand what's happening now. I know. I fail to consider your whole, like, nothing and clean shall ever touch my sheets. Wow. Someone clean things can touch my sheets if I'm lucky. So he defied me.

That is what sons do. Sometimes they also fuck their moms in their dreams. But again, don't bring it up. Don't ask about it. The fact that in this portrait of just unrelenting grief and despair, we also get the anger, right? He defied me that these things are now entwined with each other kind of undeniably. And I was struck on the, like, hubris front, as we've talked about for many characters, including these. The way that they talked about sheepstealer.

You know, Reneer is like, go find this dragon and this rider, and Damon says it shall be done. So that's interesting, given the book to show Swap of Nettles to Raina, like, and that is Damon's daughter. That'll be interesting to watch what happens there. But just the like, it's impossible. It's impossible. You see, boy, that's not true. I knew you're going to do that. I can't help it.

And then I know you know I can't help it. So I'm like, why not? Just do it. The, um... You talk about it with Thrones, but it happens with Star Wars, too. Can't help it. Like, anyone would have described the sewing as impossible before it happened, but it did. So it's impossible that someone could claim a wild dragon.

How could the greens have? have claimed a dragon. Now, it's not actually a team green dragon. They don't know that. But it's more broadly the fact that they're like, how could anybody but us have found a way to change the dragon mat that feels to me very notable? If you're Raina, yeah, how do you feel like no one's even considering you as an option? I know. And like, who possibly could have done this? That is tough. Certainly not our 20-something year old daughter, uh, who's got plenty of targ, blood, raging through her veins. Would it be worth it for them to know it was you just for that one moment of like,

was not familiar with your game. Good job, Raina. Now we have an issue. Is she going to get one of those? I don't know. Great job, Raina. I don't know. Good job, good effort.

Maybe. A good job, good effort? Yeah, that's a sports meme. Okay. This is the quote you mentioned earlier, Joe. The boys who clung to me who hid their little faces in my skirts dead so that I may sit upon a throne of swords. Of course, a throne made of swords makes me think of the Barric John season seven.

exchange beyond the wall. We have to know what we're fighting for. I'm not fighting so some man or woman I barely know can sit on a throne made of sword. So what are you fighting for? Life. Death is the enemy, the first enemy and the last. And as Renera and everyone considers the cost, the toll,

what is worth it? Damon. Godfather three memes her. Yeah. Just when I thought I was out, you pulled me back in. Switches to High Valerian and whispers the proposition. I've always said.

That's the right. Bitch, perfect. Oh, my God. I hope people, the audio listeners only were like, oh my God. They got Pichino in this studio. My God. The prophecy. And the switch to High Valerian to remind them.

Who they are. Their bubble, their cocoon, their history, but also just like their inheritance, this thing now that they have to do. And it's interesting because on the one hand, it's like a reminder that there is more at stake. not just then their family, which is a fucked up way to think about it, but a way you could think about it if you're making these choices, right? Even just this war. You know, there's the like the various, like the realm someone must idea of like who is doing this for the pure thing.

And then who has this kind of other context or reason they're bringing to it. Okay, there's more at stake. The darkness from the north, we have to figure out a way to preserve life. Yeah. But how do we make sure that season one of Game of Thrones happens? Exactly. It's a paradox. It's a must.

It's already happened, and so we've got to make sure it happens. Yeah. As we like to talk about with Reneira, when does that shift from, okay, when I was young, I wanted to eat cake. Then I became the air, and I learned about this thing. Now I have, fuck these guys, you know, Rickard laughing and his men laughing when she pulls the sword, egg on, all of the people who bent the knee to him instead. There's the need for vengeance and the fact that Reneera knows that she was actually Viseris's chosen heir. but there's also the fact that she is the inheritor of the prophecy and she carries the prophecy. And then there's the when does Reneer get drunk on prophecy fear?

And this like red sewing stretch of like I've been chosen. It's kind of like Keltigar. Just like really undermining. Slat me in the face. Really undermining our queen here. As you know, I'm team black. Team Reneer felt really grateful to see Reneer on the throne and I'm pretty concerned. I'm pretty concerned because I think that when Reneer justifies these actions.

Her face just being sobbing wet with tears is not an auspicious beginning to. You know, I think that... The souls of her feet being painted red, like Lupitone red with blood. I think it's fair to say that your march up to the throne being shown to us in the reflection of a pool of blood of your father's former hand and your best friend's dad. It's noticious. It's worrying. It's a harbinger. It's an omen. So, yeah, you know, what do you justify and what do you think is an acceptable choice to make if it's all for the sake of prophecy? That is just the through line of this entire show. And yet it's time to fly to King's Landing. I liked hearing the... To Kings Landing on the morrow.

To the Galite on the Marr to Kings Landing on the Marr. Queens Landing, we should say. I liked this description from the cinematographer on... This was on House of the Dragons Belt, I think, about the shift from through the smoke and the wreckage, the darkness into the brightness, the lightness of Kings Landing.

That was really interesting. And you know, there's this thing, it's like... You have these ominous... You have that, okay, the light, But then you have like the cut from, the sequence was like Orwhile saying to Allison, I don't know what you have done, your grace, but I fear something desperate. And then we cut to Renera's face in darkness and in shadow as the score is like, that's kind of worrying, right?

And this is a passage we didn't share last week from fire and blood, but it's an iconic one. Broke by the loss of one son, Renera Targaryen seemed to find new strength after the loss of the second. Jace's death hardened her, burning away her fears, leaving only her anger and her hate She was still possessed of more dragons and her half-brother, her grace now resolved to use them no matter the cost. She would rain down fire and death upon Agon and all those who supported him. She told the Black Council and either tear him from the Iron Throne or die in the attempt. Riding Leathers? Yep.

Jace's sword on her side. Anything you want to say about that? We'll talk about the Dark Sister symbolism and significance, but there are more than one sword choice here that carries. Her carrying Jase's sword is like, it's so beautiful. And her strapping on a sword in the first place is something that she talked about a lot in season two, of course. So she has a sword. It's her dead son's sword, though. And that is just like, again, what was the cost to get her here to this place?

The trail of blood everywhere, the path of blood. She's walking in a pool of Otto's blood, but it's also Jason's blood and Luke's blood. You know what I mean? On the way up to the throne. When the adult cast is introduced into the show, Season 1, episode 6, and Allison summons Renera after childbirth to the real. Trail of blood. Trail of blood. It's trail of blood, trail of blood, trail of blood. It's long walk. It's long walk. It's long walk. It's baptism by blood. Bafsasus. I was thinking of our guy Vissaris. Me too.

I mean, because of the halting slow nature of how Reneura marches up to the throne in particular, it was so hard not to think of Vesaris. Really, really good. It was helpful. I thought that Masari gave Raniro the crown, because that is an important symbol. Though like the reminder that she actually was Viseris's chosen heir, you know, that this is her rightful inheritance and that it was stolen from her. Helpful. So appreciated that. The other crown's just out there in the wilderness. I know. Yeah. Did they grab that back? Was that in the satchel, you think, that Lyrus took

the crown in there? I hope so. Yeah. Hopefully, that would be a tough one to leave fine. I want to take it another minute. He's like, I have enough gold and also I bothered to get the ruby encrusted crown. Oh, man. Taking the red key. Joe. Any feedback from anybody as far as you have confronted in the world about the battle tactics here? Have you seen anything? Has anyone mentioned anything? A few people. have noted that it was perhaps, speaking of the hubris

of Targaryens, hubristic of Damon and Rainier to just the two of them. Romantic, but hubristic. Date night? Yeah. You and me, Storm in the Castle? This is our listener, and I believe you pronounce it.

Neve is how you pronounce this name. I believe it is a very fun Irish name. When calculating, this is a comment left on Talk of Thrones, thank you so much. When calculating whether it is good strategy to go into a castle with only your spouse, two swords, and conquest on the mine. One must consider how cool the two of you will look doing it if you succeed. Are you wearing

matching black leather outfits? Do you have matching supernaturally colored hair because you're also related? Is one of you very, very good at fighting? Is the other one radiating a palpable force field of rage and grief? Are you both very, very good looking? Strategy considerations. Makes sense to me. Tick, tick, tick. Tick, tick, all the way down the row. This is so funny. I mean, it's very dumb. It's very dumb that Rineer and David just like the two of them walk in.

Is it fun? They brought air support. Yeah. But no ground support. And the air supporter asked to just like hang back. Yeah. In case we, how would they know if they're needed? I know.

They're really just there in case another dragon shows up. I guess so. I guess so. Jamie! Did you, was there any particular glimpse of, first of all, did you have any of the Bell's PTSD? Always. Seeing dragons over?

Kings landing. It's all it takes. Any of them is like all this for brand to wind up on the throne? Oh my God. Any looks from the small folk below that struck you as particularly notable? We've got all pub pals. We've got Hughes wife. Sylvie. It was like, remember, it's the small folk like me.

Remember, Aymond loves a mommy. Hughes wife. Well, I was actually really struck by Hughes wife because so she's on her way out of there, right? Like that's her whole vibe is like, I'm going to tumble. Yeah. I'll be safe there. Don't worry about it. Does she know that that's her husband up on a dragon? I was wondering that too. I don't know that she knows that her husband has a dragon. I feel like... I would let Hugh send a raven if I were Reneera, you know? I mean, it seems like... Tell your loved ones you have a dragon.

If he must have... Right, right? But let's say he didn't. I don't know why he wouldn't. You know, my dearest wife, like, while he's camping. One of those like civil war. What if he had just been like, yo! Remember our dead daughter? I got a dragon now. It's sick. Sorry I couldn't find enough chicken for the soup, the blockade, but... But I got a dragon now. That was very interesting to me. Does she know that he is a dragon? Follow question. Do viewers who have not done a complete rewatch know that that's his wife?

Or that those are old pup pals or that that's Aymann's preferred brothel worker? And will they know midway through season four who Thailand Lannister is? These are the questions for the time. Oh, my God. The High Tower soldiers in the courtyard. Yeah. They're like, all right, swords down. Damon says the real test is going to be in the inside.

And Claire Kilner is like, bet because I'm going to do a kill bill. Not here with the over-ed-chat. She's like, you know what I did? King Kong and Tarantino, motherfuckers. Incredible. Really, really, really great. And Andy Greenwald didn't like it. Actually, I don't know how Andy feels about Tarantino, but, you know.

Oh, interesting. Something to think about. What's your favorite Tarantino movie? In glorious bastards? That's fine. I just saw Once Upon a Time in Hollywood at the Arrow for the 70 millimeter festival. How was it? So funny, because there were just like a bunch of bros there in their, like, Cliff Booth Hawaiian shirts.

I was like, wow, you got your Cliff Booth cosplay. That dude killed his wife. Something to think about. Anyway. I saw not in the theater, but never in 70mm. It's hard to pick. Yeah. difficult, really difficult.

But it might just be Pulpiction. It might just be that. Completely respectable choice, hard to argue. But the Killbill duology is incredible. And yeah, Gloria Spaster's Rules and Jackie Brown rules and, you know, Reservoir Dogs rules. I love Tarantino. Me too. Give me that blood.

But yeah, she's like, we're going to do an overhead shot. She did a bunch of overhead shots. But she's like, this is specifically invoking, you know, the scene with the bride and the wheel and Go-Go and like all of that. that. So yeah, it's really fun. Fantastic stuff. Then they make their way. They cut through some more soldiers and make their way to the throne room and Damon throws open the doors. And then we and Reneer just get to enjoy a really satisfying moment where he turns and says, your grace, like, it's for you. Not the hateful eight. Okay. Sorry. Wow. That movie was a disappointment. Was there a moment of all the moments with Damon in this throne that was most top of mind

for you in this entire sequence of watching him support Reneira rising to take it? Was it? I was thinking about Vaman Valerian, really. Well, I mean, he did cut his head off in that throne room in front of that throne. And so that is, folks, our sixth mention of Vaman today. They said it couldn't be done. And yet here we are. Damon's sitting on that throne.

Has Reneer entered the room in season one? The Harenhall dreams of cutting Reneer down from that throne, the vision of seeing Renier on that throne. So were we meant to believe that, like, Damon is, you know, true to his word, that his dream drug trip. Yeah. White Lotus Day at Heron Hall has converted him. And he is just, like, sincerely supporting Reneer now. I think so.

He's like, you have to do it. You have to be the one to cut off the head because they won't respect you otherwise. Yeah. Kind of don't anyway. But, like, this will only make it worse. This is the moment you become queen. Yeah. Like, interesting to see.

that. Right or die. Yeah. And, you know, we were always, like, in the very beginning when Damon was doing all of these things, you know, and Vassaris is sitting on that very throne when he has to cast Damon out of the city. Time and time again, if we're being honest about it. You know, we were always like, did, does Damon really want that for himself? Actually, and the show certainly went through a period of saying he thought he did. Even then, we had moments that are some of our favorite in the run of the show to date picking up the crown and putting up the crown. And putting it on his brother's head. He could have knocked him over and taken the seat for himself right there, but he didn't. He didn't, Joe. And so this felt so connected to that moment in particular for me

in a way that felt so rich and rewarding for these characters. And they're a very complicated history with each other. I just loved that. Loved it. Didn't love Rickard, laughing at, you know, I don't know how much we want to get into this out of the book's spoiler section. I think this is fine to say, like, Rickards, Sir Rickard's plot is just completely different in the show because a character who he was supposed to basically be like off with just isn't in the show. Butterflies, baby. Butterflies. So this is a less glorious and charitable outcome for this character.

That was interesting. Do you think the actor who plays Sir Rickard like really upvoted Georgia's blog post? He's like, yeah. Butterflies! Butterflies! Dreamy! The laughter, though, it is definitely. Only like, it's a validation, right?

Every fear. Every fear that Renair has had of, like, what do they think of a woman? Pulls that sword, the one that she has spent. Episode after episode saying was never in my hand, and they fucking laugh in her face. So she does have to cut off Otto's head. And undeniably, she has to cut off Otto's head. And eventually, she does. And eventually she does, and she will.

Luther, they come in. You know, it feels better than seeing the gold cloaks fuck over Ned Stark. This time they sided with our beloved characters. That's exciting. Luther looked great doing it. And then Reneira says, Brer! To me!

Were you not like shriveling inside? You're like, Renneri's not there. Oh my God. Don't say it so loudly and bombastically. I know. It's tough. Now, Damon's like in a pretty good mood about it. You know, he's like we could just sub in this guy, right?

Sub in this guy. It's thrilled. What do you think of the Laris Contingency Plan reveal? I love this. Yeah. Tell me why. Because Laris is my favorite girl. Yeah, so anytime we can mention him.

Great. I love that Laris did this. This is great. I mean, we didn't know where Otto was. We talked to Chris about this and talked to Thrones. We did not know where Otto was at the end of, but basically, Otto left to go back to Old Town and Laris is just like, yoink. Yeah. Throw them in the deepest, darkest, you know, depths, the bowels of the...

Do you know who wrote that episode, Bowels the Pleasure Den episode? Season 1 episode 4, can't remember. Ira Parker. Oh, shit. Ira, you roll. Oh my God. Wow. So in the bowels of the black cells, we find a hot-a-high tower.

I love that Laris did this. Me too. Larris is just ready, whatever he needs to do. And we saw this. When he and Agon were captured in the last episode, he was just like, oh yeah, that's the king. Yeah. Whatever is going to get Laris to stay alive and survive until the next play, he will do it. Right.

And it's interesting to pair those moments across these and reveals across these episodes because it's like, when we talk about trust and loyalty, can you ever really have it with a character like Laris? Like, is the only side he's really on his own? Or does he have an allegiance, but he's ready for... It depends how much he likes your feet, you know? If you let him crank it and you flash a little toe. He stays loyal for at least a minute.

I mean, that's like one of the great rewarding parts about the Laris Auto thing here too. Because, like, you know, I was thinking back to how, you know, we associated very intimately, Allison and Laris. But then when Laris had that stretch with Otto where he was like, no reason I can't do this for you, just to get close enough to be able to snatch him? Or was he sincere? But then it ended up making more sense to do this other thing. Like all of it is in play with him all the time.

When Otto said I'm piecing out to head back to my home and my family, that was season two episode two. Season two episode two. It's been a minute. We got a flash of him in the finale, but that was a long fucking time ago. Brats have grown on Coleman Lodge. I thought Damon's laugh, his laugh of glee. You knew it was Otto, though. As soon as the shadowy figure emerges and is like,

my prince again. Melord, I have a treat my own. A gift. If you ever return from Lord Laris Strong, it's like, this has to be Otto. Here we go. But it is confirmed before we see Otto by Damon's cackle of jubilation that can only calm from seeing his most...

Five stars. Spies. Yeah. Nemesis, rotting away, festering in the black cells. Very, very, very satisfying. What does she make of what transpired, not just between Damon and Otto, but when Damon brings Otto in between Otto and Renera? Oh, I just thought it was so good because, like, this is so complicated for Renera.

Because, of course, like, Otto is the architect of the conspiracy against her. Like, he absolutely is. But also, like, you know, she was raised with him. as like this figure in her household. You know what I mean? And before she was a threat to him in one way or another as he so decided, like he was like almost like an uncle like figure to her. This is her best friend's father. This is her father's closest confidant. So it's just like extremely complicated. I think it would be hard for Renner to behead almost anyone. But like this is just really hard. This like figure of authority for you growing up and all these other things.

Yeah. I just want to say, when I made fun of the way that Reneira, like, did not take his head clean me off and said people were like, I'd like to see you do better. Obviously, I would be way worse at this. Obviously, I would, like, hit him in the, like, knee and the ankle. I do love that Reneer, like, closes her eyes.

Like, you know, it was all, like, very good. Clean, clean break on the second hit. Like, you know, the Valerian Steel doing his job. Valerian Steel very sharp. That's great. Yeah. We mentioned on Talk Thrones. We mentioned the ungrade.

Joy. Yes. And our beloved Roderick. You know. That was even more of a hatchet job. Oh, way worse. Plus it was raining. You know.

It's messy. But like if you, if you want, you know, from the very beginning, Ned Stark saying Hugh passes in sentence must swing the store and using ice to behead, you know, this poor guy who saw a zombie. You know, we've been tracking this ever since, whether it's Theon and the hatchet job he does there, whether it's Rob with a car stark, whether it's DeNaris, having other people do the work for her in Esos, you know, it's just sort of like, who's, who's passing? Eventually, DeNaris is like, I can just roast him with my dragon. Yes. And that at least was like her doing the work. But it's just sort of like, what kind of leader are you? Can you pass a sentence in swing the sword? Can you do it cleanly? Thion just like, Theo, this boy who took Winterfell and was just weighing over his head from the beginning. hacking away at this guy who helped raise him. Yeah.

Much like Otto helped raise Renira, and to a certain degree, a way less degree. Helped raise her by ratting out to her dad that she was trying to fuck her uncle and the bells of a pleasure. And by hopefully suggesting that he could betrothed Renira to her at that point, infant F-brother. He was, he always tried to do his part. Let's keep it in the family.

He always tried to do his part. Let's just keep it in the family. Why not? Oh, fucking Otto. So satisfying to see this. guys had got cut off, though I will miss it. So, yeah. It's a grand throne's tradition. I love that they did this here. This is very different than what happened. I mean, Otto dies here. Otto's still the first to be beheaded. Yeah. But this is very different than what happens

when Renneri takes a throne in the book. And it's, there's a, we'll talk about in the spoiler section, but there's a thing that happens when she takes the throne that we've been talking about in the spoiler section since the beginning. Yeah. Maybe they'll do it later, but they haven't done it here. And I love this way more. I think her walking through a puddle of blood that she had to have an active hand in creating. It's a really good choice. And those bloody steps up to the throne, I think it's an incredible adaptive choice. Yeah.

Really, really smart. I loved everything about this. I think that the fact that Reneira doesn't want to do this and that like... I don't want to. I don't want it. To have to inflict directly that violence, even on someone who deserves it and who you are willing to offer. She wouldn't have any problem with Dame and killing on it. But I think your point is important about just the, again, the history between the characters.

It's not a stranger. I think that Jasper would have been way easier for her. No question. You know, like, the fact that like... Also, shout out Orwell. I know. Who's just navigated his way through this with a mom. A horse.

You know, it's all of the man who passes a sentence to some of the sort stuff. And it's also like, oh, and you're a woman. woman. And they're all wondering if you're going to be able to do it. If you're going to have the Constitution and fortitude. So feeble. And when you see, when you see, when we saw these steps in the trailer, we both knew it was Renera walking through a puddle of blood to the throne. But we weren't sure whose blood it was. But we were like, and I didn't want to spoil that was Roneira taking the throne. And you were just sort of like, it looks like a womanly gait. Yeah. It did.

But I'm like how, well, we've seen Reneira stride confidently. Yeah. You know, so it's not just like a womanly gate. Like, there's just sort of this like tiptoe, like uncertainty of this moment. And I just love that. I love that Reneer does not stride with confidence up to the throne, that she just has to do this horrible thing, that she's crying, that she's like mulling. And I support that, like her just being like, I can't, I can't do it. Same.

I'm not, I'm not disparaging her. Like, one should be horrified to do this, you know. You should feel broken after all of these things about. And then just like, you know, wavering her way up to the throne. Yeah. Just feeling all of the feelings that she's feeling about it. And then Allison walks in and her just having to like sort of steal herself. Just be like, oh no.

And now Allison has to see that I did this. And also, Allison didn't even get away. That was sort of like part of the whole point of this whole thing was that I wasn't, I didn't, I wasn't supposed to have to then deal with the consequences of Allison being here because she's supposed to be gone. Yeah. Allison wasn't supposed to have to look at the toll of it. And Ranira wasn't supposed to have to see that on. And now, like, I was, I'm supposed to take heads. Am I supposed to take Allison's head?

I don't want to. Like, I never wanted to. Yeah. And so, like, all of this, like, uh-oh, what now is there. And then she just sort of, like, squares her shoulders and, like, in, like, microaggressions. Microaggressions. Microaggressions. Microgressions.

What I meant. Like, her face just morphs into something else. And I just think she's incredible. Carlos, can we see it? It's genuine spine tingling chills. Just amazing work from both. Microaggressions on me. and my emotions. Exactly. Yeah. The control you need to take the mastering of yourself. Yeah.

Slight raise of chin. Slight raise of chin. Really good. I love you calling out that we've seen these different postures and modes from Renera before because like the thing that flashes into my mind hearing that is is in the hunt. That confident march back into camp and everybody else is like, whoa, right? And that this should feel like an impossible thing to navigate. And also just the relief, it's all of it, right? All of these things mixed together. And yeah, Viseras, you know, I think on our minds most of all with that, you know, 27-minute long walk to the throne. Excellent.

I love it. You know who else should be there. Jace should be there. I know. Like if she had, if Jace were still around, Jace and Damon would have been on her side. Like who is there and not there to observe this moment? Actually, like, that was on my mind, too, when Otto, just the little quick look that transpires between Otto and Renair here, thinking of how when Vassaris did show up in episode eight in season one, how Otto had to remember kind of like bow out of the way because Viseras had come to support and choose Reneer. That was so great. Oh, man. And yeah, like, I liked on the Roderick-theon front, the way that, like, Roderick's words sent Theon into this, like, complete state of, like, debilitating doubt and shame and insecurity. And he has to compensate for that. this like show.

God help you, Theo, now you're truly lost. If your father could see this. Yeah, all those version of that, my final words will be meant to damn you.

Yeah. The way that Renera respond to that, like, I'm actually not going to let you talk anymore. I'm going to hit you in this. Fine.

Let me say this. Two strokes, it's pretty impressive, actually, for the first time to be having someone. It's pretty impressive. I don't disagree. You know,

I have Dark Sister at home, maybe I'll try it. What, like, melons should I use? not an actual person, obviously. Adam, I promise you'll be spared. What, like a watermel? I was like the mailman.

Who were you talking? What would that maybe like a cantalope? Do you think you could hit it at the exact angle that Vaman's Valerian lost the... Like a baguette. He's a second matchions. Holy fuck. Oh, most powers and magical numbers, so we won't get to eight today, I don't think. That's it.

It's a book, spoiler section time, and I don't need to talk about Vamon there. The... The spoiler, he's dead. He's dead. Head cut right off above the tongue. The Jace sword. not being the one that she uses, but Vesenia's sword,

Dark sister, sharper because it's Valerian's swords. So Damon's like, let me help you out. But the symbolism of one of the ancestral swords of House Targaryen in this moment of becoming queen, but also just the fact that Vesena was, you know, we think of like, a heroine of yours, Taiwan's saying of Vesnia, a heroineer is too, a warrior, sister-wife queen, who Reneera has studied. And for Damon's...

And for Daemon's... Sania in a way they didn't look at Renira. It also feels quite intimate to, like, hand your valet and steal sword to someone. I agree. Use my sword. Yeah. Use it. Why don't you? I'm sure everything will be fine for these characters. And that they will live happily ever after.

Well, the war's over. The war's done. That's a wrap. Yep. Renier's on the throne. The rest of the episodes are just... Honestly, it's just looking for Thailand. Yeah. From here. Dreamfire. Time!

Book spoilers? Let's do it. Okay. If you don't want to hear this... Go. The horn of held hemahead. All right. Can I hit you with an email we got from a listener? Yeah, of course.

Dean, our listener, Dean wrote this in sort of regards to Alice Rivers' The Lorax. Alice is in a perfect position to heal Amon just enough to kill Damon, two dragons and then himself. Take two major dragons and, like, the two most fearsome warriors on. on each side off the board. Yeah. She did that. I'd choose to believe. This passage from fire and blood has always been epic, but thinking of it now with what

we're saying in the show, who told you where to find me? This is what Damon says, Damon. My lady. My lady. She saw you in a storm cloud. Not the dragon. In a mountain pool at dusk in the fire, we lit to cook. are suppers. She sees much and more. My Alice. Oh, mommy. I mean, do you think there's any

chance that there will actually be something like genuine and authentic between these two crazy kids, Amid One Eye and Alice? Or just she's like, okay, Damon's not going to give me what I want, but I can get it through you. Maybe. Put a baby in me. Yeah. The, on the Heron Hall front, sure. You know, this witch queen of Heron Hall future for Alice, like, that is a thing that happens, the book. I guess the question is like... For how long? Yeah. She'll take it, but she will not keep it long. Well, and do they have to, like, move that up maybe? Because, like, there's a lot. That's, like, Regency timeline stuff. Like, will we... Because now you know that we're not doing the agency? No, I've not, I've not accepted that, actually. I mean, I think... I think

Reneera makes it to the very end of the show, like finale. I think the penultimate finale, you're right, but I think they still have to give us something beyond that. I do, I do think Rineer, like, let's say Reneera dies top of the finale. Yeah. Yeah. We do, of course, need to see Agon die. Have to. And it has to be clear that Team Black wins. That's it. That's it.

Yes. Yes. But I don't know that Kregan Stark needs to be there. Why bring Black Alien if they're not going to hitch up? Like, do you think Kreek and Stark's going to show up and people are going to be like, Remember Season 2 episode one? That's Kregan Stark, you know? Yeah.

And they all have been primed to remember him because they will have just been introduced at the beginning of the finale. to Thailand, Lanister again? What if the end of season four is just do you remember these characters? You haven't seen them in four years. The previously on is just like 20 minutes long. You guys thought the six and a half minute previously on at the beginning of the season three was a doozy? Look out. One of the things that I'm curious about is like because Amon is stabbed and incapacitated

here. I presume that that, I don't know, was that like a kidney wound? Like I assume he's going to be out of commission for a bit here, but hopefully not too long. You know, when will we get the like Begar R. raises the countryside. That, and even just him learning about Kings Landing and feeling like such an idiot, like all of that. Is he just, like, going to be in the sick bed? I don't know.

Is he going to be having fun dreams? Is he going to, we talked to this before, but is Alice going to present as Allison to him, you know, sort of thing? Where are you on that? You think it's going to happen? I would love it. Olivia Cook would hate it, and it would be really funny. Vagar sort of, like, taken out her temper on the countryside, like,

that's very anti whatever it is that Alice Rivers wants. That's true. It doesn't seem like she would support that. Yeah. She would just say, let's stay in bed and fuck and I'll give you some mother's milk. How about you don't burn a bunch of trees and also, I guess, the people. Yeah. Yeah.

And here's some rest milk. Suckle up my teeth. She'll tie you over instead. Reneera. Okay, let's talk about the throne cuts that didn't happen. I love this. This is just so interesting. Okay, here's the passage.

As her lord husband, Prince Damon escorted her from the hall, cuts were seen upon her grace's legs and the palm of her left hand wrote eustace. Drops of blood fell to the floor. I know fucking eustace. Drops of blood fell to the floor as she went past and wise men looked at one another, though none dared speak the truth aloud. The iron throne had spurned her and her days upon it would be few. That is one of the all-time like hammer notes in fire and blood.

This is such an interesting... When we think about the adaptation. So your question is like, will it happen later this season? Will the throne cut her later this season? People will be like, ooh. Because if it doesn't happen, why? It's like kind of dumb. It's kind of dumb, dumb.

Like, think about how you convey this in TV storytelling. Like, let's say the throne had cut her. Yeah. Like, let's say she didn't walk the pool of blood. Otto's pool of blood is over here. She takes a clean walk up to the throne, it cuts her. She walks out and some blood stripping. And people are like, peas and carrots, peas and carrots.

Like, did you know that this means supernaturally that the throne has rejected her and she will not keep it long? Like, we don't have that lore. They can have that conversation later when she had to put her rotting fingers in a bowl of maggots like Vassarist. Okay, okay. So which characters are saying it? I mean, I think it would be hard to convey, but it does be... Lord and lady random who's he what's it? Like, I don't know. Why did we do it all with Fasaris then? Because that all felt like such an intentional choice to send up. And then they thought they were going to do it doesn't... This is better. What is so...

What I think is delicious to consider... Yeah. I think you're right to flag that it would be hard to consider. conveyed that, like, aspect of it. I don't know. Someone can be like, Magor. They found him with the blade of the throne through his neck. You know, Magor. Good old Magor. That's what, you know,

Magor's dits. They can do it that way. I don't know. Would that be good? Maybe not. Should you get into TV ready? I'm available. I'm actually not. But maybe I can't be. She's very busy. The idea that the histories

were written by these fucking men. Yeah. presented Rainira as unworthy from the jump? Oh, sure. Yeah. If Keltigar were in that room, he'd be like, Do you guys see that blood? Did you see what happened?

Not that she walked through a pool of blood to get there, but I believe the throne cut her, and that's why she's bleeding. Listen to me. Don't listen to your eyes. Incredible. Question about the cat's paw. Tell me.

Where do you think it goes from here? Because for a second, I was like, does it get lost in the god? Like, does it wind up? up with other Targaryians going forward. Yeah. Or, you know, because Amid has it and he's not

leaving Harren Hall. Right. So, because if you're listening to this and you don't know, he dies at the gods eye. Because Helena, remember who said so? Yeah. She did. Yeah.

A promise is a promise. So, like, I kind of liked the idea that it, like, goes down to the bottom of the god's eye, but like, and then finds his way back somehow. Or, you know, it gets passed down, down, down, and then Robert has it. and then Baylish steals it from Robert or like whatever.

But, like, I kind of like it. Like, the dagger prophecy getting lost in the gods eye is, like, a really cool. Or, like, oops, he drops it over the Isle of Faces or, like, something like that. You know, like, that would be pretty cool. Could a green man just, like, courier it to. Or Alice just has it. Alice having it would be fun. Alice has the dagger prophecy.

She's using it to cut up, like, where would goo in the kitchen. Love it. Use it to stir the call-ins. She grinds in her mortal pestle with a handle. I'm into it. It's interesting in general to think of a few chain of custody questions because there's that. And then there's just like, who else is Renair are going to share the prophecy with? Yeah.

You know, she told Jace. He did. He's dead. Is she going to tell Joffrey little Joffrey? Well, we're in the book spoiler section. So if she does, it's not going to fucking matter because he's going to die too. Do you think they're bringing Joffrey back? Are they just like, don't worry about.

I think, oh my God. They have to. I don't know what they're doing with these children. Joffrey, on the dragon, hubris, and do they understand the actual magic of these beasts? Like, little Joffrey trying to fly his mother's dragon and then dying is one of my, like, it sounds weird to say favorite moments, but it is. You love it when small children die. It's a rich text. But yeah, like, you know, in a desperate moment of trying to bridge these divides, like, would Rainer tell Allison?

Would she tell Egon? Like, does it die inside of this story? see her tell Allison. I could see her telling Masaria. I could see her telling, you know, those are the people really. Egon, I don't think so. But we'll see. She's like, you're a dragon's eating me, but wait. Um, I have no idea. I found this long already for anything. Um, on the Helena front. Oh, yeah. Okay, here's what I want to say about this. Tell me. I usually get so annoyed when I'm watching a TV show and I know that they're like trying to build up my affection for a character right before they kill them. Yeah. But they've just... been doing this with Helena so long.

Like, I've just been, like, into Helena for so long. And they've, I think, ratcheted her up in the last couple episodes of just sort of, like, what a reprieve from the horror of all of this is just sort of like, we're all rooting for Helena. Every single person. All the bugs in the garden are rooting for Helena. The chickens deserve to have Helena. I used to have chickens. I didn't know, Glenn.

We had chickens. Incredible. That's great. Did you have, like, fresh eggs? Yeah. Did you have a rooster? I guess you need one. No, we'd have a rooster.

We had four laying hens. Anyway, the, uh, what was I say? Four chickens. Okay. We're all rooting for Helena, and then Helena's going to skydive out the window. And that's going to be really tough. And I think it's happening this season because, I forget who said, Olivia Cook. Yeah.

And like what advice would you give? And she was like, lock your windows. Sheesh. Good job, Olivia. Anyway, I think Helena's going out the window this season and that's so sad. That is really a bummer. Do you think there is any chance? And I don't like asking this question that Masaria is going to be involved with that.

Because there is one of the tales, nobody knows what happens with Helena's death in fire and blood. Did she follow a butterfly out the window? Did she fire a butterfly? Follow a butterfly out the window. Did she go dreamfire? Oh, three, my own. That's horrible. She's speared, right?

Like so, not that way. Oh, yeah, the guys in control are like, make it in. Oh, God, Christ. One of the accounts. Yeah. Connects the idea of Masaria telling Helena about Mailer, who is not currently in this show, we must acknowledge, about his death.

And that that, like, despair and grief drive. Helena to suicide. That's one of the, like, presented accounts. So Masaria has a connection to a piece of book. Yeah. Do you think that, like, on the, because there seem to be it's stoking this Masaria-Ranera-Aliceant jealousy? Like, because Missouria-Rinera-Alison-Daman. Yeah. Could, is there any path? I don't want this to happen. Is there any path to Maseria? I wouldn't put anything past Missaria, personally. Would she kill Helena? She could. To hurt Allison? She could. And have Allison blame it on Renira? Oh. To put it wedge between them? It feels like in play? Maybe, but like I actually think at this point,

nothing is driving a wedge between Rainier and Allison's. Famous last words, perhaps, but like, so much has happened and the show is like, guess what they're still besties? Ride or die. Yeah. Right or die. Can I talk to you but the thing I'm most excited to talk to you about in this book's further section? Yeah. Alan and Bela. Yeah. More incest. Jace's body, not yet cold because of the ocean waters, but not really like metaphorically cold, right? Yeah. Barely dead. Yeah.

Alan does a little like, like, waver lean into Bailey. He's just like, he's... The vibes are palpable. He's interested. Yeah. He is interested. They are related. And they will marry.

Yes. Incest! But I was just like, this is fast. It did seem quick. Jase is dead. That actually struck me. I mean, that seemed like that's why that scene is there. For sure.

That struck me as, why Bailey doesn't get to like go to Kings Landing for the conquering? Because she's too busy, like, track for her husband who's also her uncle. Oh, we don't have this, like, that many episodes left. Like, we got a lot to do and actually not that many episodes. Correct. So we've got to establish some vibes. What are you most looking forward to seeing on the tapestry in weeks to come?

I hope Otto's head is there from this episode. Butchers ball. Oh, butcher's ball. Well, and this is like on the fish feed front. If we lose fish feed with barely any, I mean, Damon, they have inserted Damon. So he's a character we care about. But to really give us a full. Roddy, Kristen, now Gawain, who didn't...

Isn't it the gold cloaks? So it's Gwain and Kristen in their troops, and then Roddy and Oscar and Allie. And is that going to be it? Is it going to be Roddy who's going to be like... I think so, because we don't have some of the other characters in the mix you need to be here. So Roddy feels like he'll get the Kristen kill shot, I think. That seems likely based on where we are right now. It's not as like, can we get Damon back there?

Oh. Get Damon on Karexies back there to kill Kristen Kohl. I mean, that would be fun. That would be really fun. They're mates. As Chris noted, they have dragons. They can move around with a quickness, you know? That would be really fun.

And then we'll have to have a split at some point where Roddy goes to Tumbleton and Oscar has to keep going to King's Landing. Yeah. Like the lads, even though not all the lads are here have to get. I guess they could all go in all the places together. But Roddy will die obviously in Tumbledon, so sad. Tommy's playing again. A one season guest star. Thank you so much.

Yeah. So Kristen Cole dying. Yeah. Well, and maybe it shouldn't be Damon. Because the whole point about Kristen Cole's death is like, you die sad. Yeah. You don't get to have a big fun scene. No songs.

You just die real sad. No songs about how brave you died. Yeah. Yeah. So Kristen's like, holy shit, and then just dies. I mean, honestly, for that reason, it shouldn't even be Roddy. It should just be no one. It should be someone in the army we haven't even fucking met.

Or Black Alley. I hope it's Black Alley. Or Roddy. She gets to do something. She just like, she's like, shoots him in the throat. She's just like. That would be great. As he's like, well, what if we just like, consider.

Oh, you're going to take a lot of losses too, and they're like, that's why we came back. Roddy gets to kill Gwynne, let's say. I'm not ready to say goodbye to Gwynne. Okay. Not enough time with Freddie Fox. Two betrayers front. Well, we should say, you know, he's lasted longer than he should have. I know.

It should be dead as the gold cloaks turn. So that's nice. As the gold clothes turn. That's my daily soap opera, has the gold cloaks turn. Two betrayers set up here. Just a bounty. Wait, really quickly. If Roddy kills Gwain.

Yeah. And then Ormond kills Roddy. Does that feel like, I killed your potency, you know. As Ormond, as Roddy is killing Ormond. Roddy's bragging about killing Gwain and then Ormond kills him. Is that fun? I don't know. Could be.

And let's, yeah, we got a, yeah. Yeah. I think Roddy having, it's interesting because we just met him. So for Roddy to kill Kristen and Ormond in like the span of a few episodes. episodes. That's like a major kill count, which like makes the most sense based on the canon. But like, that's a lot of bodies to rack up for a fairly new character. And that's why you cast Tommy Flanagan. Yeah. I am sad to have to say goodbye to Ormond at the end of the season, assuming Tumpleton. We don't know for sure. But it seems, it seems like a lock that Tumbledon would be the

finale. They're doing a great job setting up the two betrayers. They really are. Oh, Hugh and Oll. I mean, Ulf is going to be so ready to piece out on Team Black by the time it happens. And then he was like, my wife. My wife. Yeah, his wife's going to Tumbledon, which is not a place you want to be. No. No, it's not. The safest place in the realm.

No safer place. No safer place. Have you not betrayed your queen line from her near it to? Just in general setting up like the mistrust. Adam came too. Of her supporters. Ugh, very tough. What else?

Let's see. Sunfire. Long in the dying. Their God. When do we get to be released from this fiction that they've created on the show that Sunfire is dead? Okay, so let me ask you this. Because in the book, Sunfire being alive and sort of like just their stock healing is like established. And then suddenly it's like Sunfire got away.

So we know Sunfire's gone. Yeah. The thing we don't know about is Egon actually. Yeah. Long stretches of fire and blood. And then that reunion at Dragonstone is like a huge reveal. So will we just be privy to every step of that story and like know that Egonne? and Sunfire

or basically preparing what they're preparing at Dragonstone? Like, will no part of that be a, ooh, a twist as it is in the book given that we're just like, we're traveling this road with EGON. So I guess we'll just,

we'll see it all happen in real time and that'll just be different. Yeah. Okay. It can only keep so many characters off the screen for two seasons. Well, Egan's so fun. Yes.

It's true. Yes. What else? Any other things we haven't? Do you think he puts Lairs on, you know, in the J-spot, just sort of like lumps Laris bodies over the,

over the front of the saddle, takes them to Dragonstone? Maybe. Maybe. Or maybe Laris travels by boat and meets them there. So Tumbledon happens and Agon, do you think Agon takes Dragonstone end of the season? That's kind of why I'm like curious,

because in terms of overall plot beats, long in the dying and long in the getting to Dragon's Stone. Yeah, and like everything that actually happens with Sunfire, a Moondancer, Egon, Baylon, Reneira, other Agon, that should be very late in season four. So, like, that's a lot of episodes to cover. Yeah, does Agan just get to, like, hang out at Dragonstone for a season and just, like, chop it up with Keltigar?

Maybe. That would be fun. The Agin and Lair is comedy show, but make it Dragonstone? Are they not going to do Keltygar's tax? I mean, it doesn't seem like he's getting the invite to King's Landing. I hope he does not make it a lot. Make it over to Kings Landing. Me too.

Anything else? Not really. Laurent. He's going to have his head and face so beaten that they can't identify him other than by the size of his body. Sir Luther, which is just sad given how handsome. We now know he is. Tough one. Tough one.

Yeah. You really like Luther. It looks great. I feel like we did it. We did it. Episode three. Talk the Thrones. Sunday night with Chris Ryan.

I can't wait. I've heard, you know, there was like rumor of this like conceptual episode this season. And that is, I've like heard what episode three is. So I'm really excited to see how that all rolls out. But I feel like they're trying something new with episode three, something a little different. Intriging. Yeah. Intriging.

It seemed like the preseason reviews also were like episode three. High on that. Banger. Cool. That's exciting. Hopefully it's good. Thank you. Thank you to you, my darling, my most beloved.

Joanna Robinson, first of her name. And thank you to our Queens Guard. Reneer's Queens Guard, I rate them higher than the Queens Guard. Ours is crushing it. Carlos Chiroboga. Correct. Scott Lee.

Jacob Cornett, Arjuna Ramga Powell, and Jomi Adon, squad. And anyone else who helped today? Yeah. I don't know if anyone else was here today. Jamie was here last week.

Was Jamie here today? I don't think so. But Jamie, thanks to you anyway. We will see everybody on Sunday night, after House of the Dragon, episode three, for Talk to Thrones, and then we will see you on Monday. Oh, no, maybe not Monday. We don't know when the next list of is. TBD. Sometimes next week. And then next Tuesday evening for the deep dive in episode three. Bye.

A horse!