House of R - ‘House of the Dragon’ Season 3, Episode 3 Reactions | Talk the Thrones

Episode Date: July 6, 2026

Chris Ryan, Mallory Rubin, and Joanna Robinson are excited to give you all of their thoughts on the newest episode of ‘House of the Dragon’! They start off by dissecting the immense pressure on Rhaenyra’s shoulders in this episode, then get into the stereotypes of the Targaryen madness, and finally help us answer the biggest question of the episode: Was Daeron Targaryen, in fact, well met?(00:00) Intro(01:36) CR’s recap(04:19) Is this the best episode of ‘House of the Dragon’?(10:14) The pressures of the crown(13:50) The humor in this episode(16:54) Targaryen lineage and the madness(22:32) Matt Smith’s performance in this episode(25:16) Daemon and Rhaenyra speak of the future(27:18) Seeking counsel from Alicent(31:50) Viserys’s complicated legacy(35:12) Have we seen the real Daeron?(40:55) Corlys and the issue of bastards(45:54) Rhaenyra sucks at diplomacy(49:34) The scheming of Ormund Hightower(50:57) Westeros Geography Corner Part 2(53:25) Hunting for the usurpers(57:14) The Faith and the queenHosts: Chris Ryan, Mallory Rubin, and Joanna RobinsonProducers: Aleya Zenieris, Carlos Chiriboga, and Jamie YukichSocial: Jomi AdeniranSet Production: Jonathan Ratliff and Gitu MehraAdditional Production Support: Arjuna Ramgopowell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, and welcome to Talk the Thrones. My name is Chris Ryan. I'm joined as always by Joanna Robinson and building a world for own construction that neither of us is stepped foot in. It's Mallory Rubin. We are here to break down the third episode of the third season of House of the Dragon right after this. This episode is brought to you by Accenture. When your advertising operations fall out of sync, everything else follows. Spotify and Accenture are working together to reach. invent the rhythm of ad sales, using automation, analytics, and smarter workflows to simplify campaign delivery and access better data across the business. The result? Less time spent on operations, more time connecting brands with the moments and fandoms that matter most. Learn more at Accenture.com slash Spotify. You can listen to and watch Mal and Joe on this very house of our feed in which you are currently listening to watching us. That's right. Correct. On Tuesday. days there will be a deep dive podcast about this episode. You can listen to me and watch me on

the Watch with Andy where I talk about television and just kind of our left field take on pop culture. One of my favorites, as you know. But I heard this episode of the Watch is going to be a dozy. It may have triggered something in Andy. Appreciation. I hope everyone is having a had a great or is having a great July 4th weekend, especially Taylor Swift, who may or may not have had something happen. We are going to get into the recap, not of that wedding, but of this episode right after this. Okay.

I, he's stretching, folks. Tenterhooks. Something special is in store here. God damn Reneera! I didn't know I was working with Lady Macbeth over here. Wow. Wayne Jenkins, welcome to talk to the throes.

What an absolute fucking privilege. Wow. Honor. Is that the entire reaper? Yeah, that's it. We can go home early today. Heavy is the head that wears the crown and gone

is the pest control of King's Landing. Meet the new boss in many ways, same as the old boss. So, Reneer How was your first day at your new job? Well, my husband captured the wrong kid and kept egging me on to realize

my fate as a world-conquering person-burning demigod. My kingdom has no money, no grain, and nobody knows about gluten-free diets. My former father-in-law needs me to make up for his life of horomongering. My ex-bestie is my

prisoner and my tormentor. There are rats everywhere. I don't like the rich and don't trust the poor. Nobody seems to care about my coronation but me. And on top of it all, I am seeing ghosts and I have my period. How about you? It's a little character work.

Coralus is her father, either, kind of, right? Sure, she was married to Lena. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, that's why I was just making sure. I am not joking that that is pretty much the episode, and it is dazzling. The major plot points are Dame getting Ormond to bend the knee, sort of. Dame also taking Ormond's war, Darren Targaryen, sort of.

There's a multi-generational, multi-directional tug of war going on for Rainer's attention and influence with the Misaria advocating for the small folk. Corlis advocating for his bastards. Damon advocating for war and Allison, along with the Dragon Seas. advocating for Rainier to keep her promises. It turns out the treasury has been looted and the agribusiness is failing. The people are hungry and the rich feel overtaxed. Reneira is distracted by the voices in her head

seeking vengeance for her growing list of dead children and the voices surrounding the throne looking for fixes for the many problems of the kingdom. This electrifying first few days in office culminate when she makes what she thinks is a lenient decision to send the recently captured Darren Targaryen to the wall, allowing Allison a chance to say goodbye to her a strange son. But when Allison lays eyes on Darren, she betrays that this is not the droid she's looking for.

And Renier realizes Orman Hightower has betrayed her, sent her a fake kid, and apparently taken Tumbledon, where Hugh's wife had fled, and we're going to get to that. The greens are still greening, and the dance of dragons has a couple more rounds to go. And this is a short recap for my favorite episode of this series so far. Yeah, there we go. Is this the best episode

of House of the Dragon? That is my personal take for reasons that I would love to get into with the two of you. Let's do it, man. Number one, this felt different.

Right? Now, obviously, a lot of it is almost exclusively except for like two or three scenes. A lot of it is told from Reneer's direct perspective. In fact, characters are even shot

from the perspective of Reniro looking at them. The tempo is fast. It's also a little bit addled, as is her POV probably. So you guys tell me, like, am I just high on the supply, or did you think that this was something special and new from the show? I thought this is extremely special. This is once again, writer Sarah Hess, director Claire Kilner, who joined forces on last week's episode,

and Claire Kilner is directing next week's episode. So it's like a three-episode run for Claire Kilner. who I praised to the heavens last week. I don't know whose idea it was to do something this, the word that they've been using is conceptual for this episode, but it is just something very different. We're inside the mind of one character for the most of the episode. The sound design and the score on this episode,

the sort of like high-pitched whining. The rats, always clawing. The rats squeaking, voices, you know, and sound bleeding in from one scene into the next. So we're just going, going, going. And as I was just trying to think about, like, you know, we're watching Reneira. She's stressed out. She's just got a lot going on.

Imagine if we had had something like this for DeNaris, like, in season four or something like that of Game of Thrones, where it's just sort of like the pressures of the mind of a ruler of our Targaryen ruler. And this episode just completely brought us inside of that. And I just think it's really impressive. You weren't similarly moved watching Danny here petitions in Marine. That didn't do quite what this episode did. I also loved this episode.

I thought it was just absolutely riveting on the soundscape front that you cited. Also, like, the inclusion of clock ticks out in the world, but then the heartbeat in Reneira's head. What a wonderful way to make us feel the kind of surreality and unreality of this moment, but also just the pressure creeping in. It reminded me this whole. episode in terms of how it was structured and conceptualized reminded me of something that Joanna and I have talked about. It is possible more than anything we have talked about over the years. I don't know. If anyone is keeping track at home, but it is the thrill of my life to have the opportunity for us to talk about it with Chris. This episode brought to our screens, like a seminal pursuit for George R. Martin. One of the ways that he talked about the story he wanted to tell in the first place, there are a couple things we like to talk about. One is conflict in the human heart. It's the only thing worth writing about. He likes to invoke Faulkner. But there's a famous

George R. Martin quote from a 2014 Rolling Stone interview. And it is about your favorite thing, Chris. Lord of the Rings. Strups? Okay. The Hobbit scenes in Lord of the Rings specifically. So George loves Tolkien. He loves Lord of the Rings. But he's also like, here's what's different about my world. Tolkien can say that Aragorn became king and reigned for 100 years. He was wise and good. But Tolkien doesn't ask the question, what was Aragorn's tax policy? Did he maintain a standing army? What did he do in times of flood and famine? And what about all these orcs? By the end of the war, Saran is gone, but all the orcs aren't gone. They're in the mountains. Did Aragor pursue a policy of systemic genocide and kill them? Even the little baby orcs, we quote this all the time in their little orc cradles. In real life, real kings had real life problems to deal with. Just being a good guy was not the answer. You had to make hard, hard, hard. decisions. Sometimes what seemed to be a good decision turned around and bit you in the ass, it was the law of unintended consequences. I've tried to get at some of these in my book.

My people who are trying to rule don't have an easy time of it. Just having good intentions doesn't make you a wise case. This episode is that thesis statement rendered in full and beautifully. The visual of Renira sitting on the throne taking the petitions we pan out wide, the barbs of the swords are encasing her like she's in a prison. That's a, to me look no different than the shots we've seen of a dragon and a pen. When she's taking, when everybody's coming to speak their peace to her, like to ask her for petitions, she's scratching at the swords on the, which is exactly what took down her father, right?

Like, didn't he get nicked by the chair itself, right? One could argue. One could argue. One could argue. Would one argue something else? Well, I really liked your new ruler, same as the old ruler, because we did have a very similar petition scene for Agon in season two. episode one, we just have corlis here instead of Otto being like, um, actually, you can't quite

do that. And I'm sitting here being like, did none of these kids get how to be king schooled? You know, like, this is the idea. And Rainier was constantly complaining about this, but it's just sort of like, if either Renier or Agon is meant to be the ruler, don't they need to learn that you can't hunt in the Kingswood or whatever the case may be? Like, you can't make these massive faux paws. And, you know, and then. the repeated question throughout this episode of, what would your father do? Amazing.

As if Vassaris was this like phenomenal king, which he wasn't. Which is just like the fondness of forgetting, right? Like you're just like, well, we've forgotten what that was like. And Allison's really the only person who seems to bring some institutional memory into the building. And she's absolutely can't be seen to be giving her any advice. Speaking of being seen, I thought that this episode,

and it's so cool that the same partnership, creative partnership, did the previous episode in this one. was that when Reneerick kills Otto, Damon says something like, they're all watching you. They're all watching to see what you're going to do. So it sets up this paranoia that not only is she like, I just became quick.

Nobody seems to care. Like nobody's like fluffing me. Nobody is giving me diamonds. Nobody is telling me what a great job I'm doing. They want something from me. Yeah. And the idea also that she's like everywhere I look, whether it's like the lady who's getting me dressed,

the person who's making my food, the person who's supposed to be like keeping the candles from being eaten by rats, which I didn't even know was a thing. They're all possibly from the old administration. Like they used to work for the Greens and they used to work on behalf of the High Tower Power Block that was in there. So really a fascinating way of setting up this person stepping into an absolute hornet's nest or rat's nest. I really agree with you with one exception because I would say she's surrounded by people telling her what she can't do, what she's doing. wrong or Damon saying you should be something else. Reminding her what she said she was going to do.

Right. And I feel like though Masaria does that a bit, Massaria and then Alinda Masa Massey, the person that she has addressing Renera, are the two people who are really pouring honey in her ear and really just sort of saying and giving her a win at the end of the episode. And so that in terms of like Reneer's state of mind and who is helping her and who is hurting her, she's so vulnerable right now to persuasion. or manipulation or paranoia. And so who can slide into rewatching that Aegon scene from season two episode one? It's Laris in the wings watching Agon sort of fumble his way through here and just slips in right after that petition to start pouring poison in his ear.

Yeah. You know, and so, like, who are, and Masaria is really like the frontrunner in this episode, but who are the users and the movers and the shakers who can take advantage of Rainira being so unsteady in her first few days here? And when Laris went up to Egon after Egon heard the petitions in that sequence, the thing he did was try to create division between the idea of Vesaris's legacy and what Egon was going to do because that was that suited Laris. Yeah, to repudiate the previous administration. Yeah, Otto was your father's man. Like, he was too pliant. That was the word he used. The fact that Reneira is in a similar circumstance, but the inversion of it where she is like feeling this compulsion internal and external to reinforce the idea that she was her father's chosen error by saying, I need to be worth the choice he means.

he made, you pair that with the violence that is unfolding, with her god complex, which is different from daimus god complex, but they're both very dangerous. I was chosen by the gods and we are gods. That way lies madness for both of them and for everyone around them. I mean, that is incredibly dangerous way to think and way to hear, but part of the reason that Renera is talking that way is because she's thinking about the prophecy, right? Yeah. Which Viseris told her not agon. So she has inherited this familial burden and legacy, which is about protection. That's also given her like a completely like screwed up idea of herself. Like that like she was born for something much bigger than like.

It's like what could go wrong with being the chosen one? And the thing about the prophecy is it is about protecting the realm. Protecting, securing, ensuring. Is that the outcome of the war we're watching? Look around you in this episode after the gullet or last episode after the gullet. How could anybody talk? themselves into that album. And so you have things like, should I kill this kid, my brother? It's pretty easy to argue either case. Yeah. You know? I also think, in addition to all the things we're saying, this is a funny episode. I was just going to say this. Which House and Dragon often misses the mark on. And, you know, we've praised, you've praised sort of like the Aegon-Lara storyline. There's been a few bright spots of humor. But I think Emma Darcy is given a huge

opportunity to be quite funny in this episode. Every time. lesson is very funny. She's like, whatever she says where she's like, I can't be held accountable for everything Lara Strong has ever decided he might do. Like, if that's what you expect of me, I'm going to come up short here. But like in the nighting the dragon seeds scene, when Ulf is like Targaryen, absolutely not. You know, or like speed running through of hole with Adam, you know, because she knows how controversial that's going to be.

Or sitting down at the rat banquet just being like, you know, a little later than I would have liked You all sort of coming to support me. So I just think that this character gets to be lighter and funnier than we've seen her be, even as she's like kind of unraveling. We are not going to get, I imagine, just because one was headed one way and the other was headed the other way. But like the brief James Norton Matt Smith moment was, it's price and gold. I also thought that, yeah, like all of the Alice and Renera stuff had like real human moments. And I think part of it that I think livened me up was a lot of walk and talk.

a lot of Reneira being introduced or confronted by a dozen people, half a dozen people. This is a woman who's been kind of locked away for a while because they had to keep her in bubble wrap for the first part of this war, whatever it is. And she's been manipulated by all these different people in her life, but she's been out in Dragonstone just kind of like, all right, all right. Like when is it going to happen? And then it happens. And she's like, oh, luck. Yeah. It's like the worst episode of West Wing ever.

You're saying you want a rule. They're saying you're meant to rule. And then there's the business of actually doing it. And the level of detail and the specific choices of those touches, many of which you highlighted in historically comedic fashion in your opening today, Christopher Wonderfite. It's a pleasure to watch you work. Thanks. It really is a pleasure to watch you work.

It really is a pleasure to watch you work. Because so much of it is like this was very quickly like gone over and then we moved on to a next thing. A small one that sticks out to me when Alinda is dressing Renera and they're having the discussion, should it be jewels? No. Should it be a sword? No. a chain, right?

Just there's like a quick little reach over for like a cracker, a snack. Yeah. Right, you'd be hungry. You're busy. You can't get through your Google calendar. Even though she's just like, and you're on your period. She's like, ugh, I'm bleeding.

Like, porous, you know. The period. Like, this is a great, great little moment and choice on the show's part. It's a different version of the season one finale, Renera's counsel. They can't wait to start plotting the war while Renera is in childbirth. Right? And this is like a monthly version of, A king does not have to deal with this.

Sure. The pain and cramps, the lean, the sweating, sitting on the throne, the specialty for relief brought in the middle of the small council meeting. That she's probably suspicious of. She's like, I don't know who made this. I don't know who mixed it, right? Sure. Yeah. Yeah.

I want to talk a little bit about Reneira in the legacy of Targaryans. Right. Because to your point about whether or not this is, the depiction of Reneira is what maybe the character of De Niroz deserved was just like this kind of, like, detail. and care instead of like, I've just lost it and like now I'm on a dragon and burning everything up. Spoilers for Game of Thrones. I was curious whether or not you thought the show did a good job and what you thought of, is it Targaryen madness? Does that Targaryen madness like get essentially triggered by sitting on a throne? Or is it a dragon that makes them crazy?

Or is it all the inbreeding? I'm sure that doesn't help. Because she, I think she, I thought it was cool how the performance and the depiction of the character changed with her proximity to the throne. Oh, yeah. Yeah. That's a great thought. I just like that there are certain moments in this episode. Like the rat banquet, which I think is like genuinely hilarious and great.

But from the outside, people are going to be like, she served us rats. Yes. What a bonkers thing to do. So the Targary-Gyr-Gyrian, like, George R. George R. Martin's depiction of the Targaryens based on the Roman emperors who have this sort of reputation for madness, debauchery, all these other things. But like in the case of both the Targaryens and the Roman emperors, this madness thing I think is actually a bit overblown.

Oh, is my take. This is... What is Zach? This is why you're the goat. This is why you're the goat. Targaryians. Are we sure they're not saying? I'm not going to defend, like, yeah, there are absolutely bat-shit Targaryans. But this idea that it's like a 50-50 flip of the coin, that's not the math at all. Okay. And it's like the thesis of fire and blood is who tells the history of these people, right? And so I was, as he came in earlier, I was like, I'm reading up on Roman emperors.

Yeah, I was like, why watch Belgium? And she's like, no. Incredible. So this comes, like, who told the stories of the Roman emperors, right? And so this comes from the United Nations of Roma Victrix. Many of the most memorable stories about emperors came from writers who belonged to or sympathize with Rome's educated elite. authors, and they name a few, preserved priceless material, but they were not neutral reporters in the modern sense. They wrote with literary aims, moral judgments, political assumptions,

class prejudices, and sometimes a strong dislike of emperors who humiliated the Senate upset traditional aristocratic privilege. So, like, that is when we're reading fire and blood, and George Ratton's like, this septon said this, and we saw what the septens thinks of Reneer in this episode, right? She thinks they're like voodoo, basically. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Or, you know, or this fool said this, who is telling the story? And we've been talking throughout about the gender bias of that. These men are telling the story about Alison and Reneira as these two, like, bitch queens. And we're like, ah, actually they were that, but also women.

It's like when you sum up this podcast, too. I would say, what's the girl's all about? I would never. But if you're, you know, if you're wanting to tell the most salacious story, you highlight the madness of these rulers. Right. And I'm not saying, I'm not saying it's not there. this is a perfect storm for the god complex. Absolutely.

Is there? The sycophancy that you're surrounded by. All of that, of course, is stoking fires of paranoia and all these other things. But this whole Targaryen 50-50 madness, I'm out on this reputation. What do you think, Mallory? This is like an incredible version of the Grantland, you know, overrated, underrated, properly rated, colon, targ madness from Joe. This is just like, this is what the blogging era was made for. I know.

Two of the greats right here, two of the great internet era bloggers. I, you know, it pains me to say this, but as you were asking this question and throwing out this prompt, what popped into my mind, unbidden and unwanted, was Drogon burning the Iron Throne in the game of God's finale? I had the same thought. Which, like, you know, a lot of PTSD. This is what hurt my mommy. Yeah, but I think your question is a good and interesting one.

And it's like, there are all sorts of answers and factors. And I think with the Targaryans, a dynasty that ruled. for centuries on end and did all of these really unnatural and holy things to maintain not only that hold on power, but the thing that they got to champion as made, this makes us distinct, right? It's to stay on that iron chair, iron throne, right? Chair made of swords. So, like, they do it, as this show has made clear, in part because of this prophecy.

Is there a chain of custody where that is lost along the way? Seems likely, right? And so then you assess it through a slightly different lens. But at the end of the day, whether it is the inbreeding from the incest that is contributing to the madness, which I think certainly it is. To Joe, this is NBD. No big deal. Two of the biggest incest supporters in the known world sitting right here in the studio today, just to be clear, it's the two of them. So those two.

Incest doesn't help. That's like I think when Circe invokes the godslip a coin Targaryen line, it's because she's thinking about the incest that she's. and Jamie committed and what it has maybe done to their children. The dragon riding, that's a magical bond. It makes them like gods, but also part of the reason that they're all fucking each other is because they want to keep the dragon riding line pure. They want to stand the throne. It's all connected, right?

I think the fact that the show gave us multiple characters saying versions of Burn Them All in this episode is there's just no way to say that's accidental. Oh, absolutely. So, like, they were all thinking about this. I got really excited when Rainier is like, burn it all, you know? Damon. Yeah. And he's like, of all the things that made this episode memorable,

the Damon comedy, as you guys have both already said, it was just god tier like Chef's Kiss excellence to watch Matt Smith work in this episode. Though I still say we should have incinerated them all. It's like casual for him. Just another day at the office and a thing we didn't get done that we should have, right? When he like walked away from Renira after they were talking up on the little battlement area, and he's like, still should, just going to throw it out there once more, you should kill Darren.

Like, it's all casual for Damon. It's easy for Damon, right? Renehra at the end, saying, I will burn them all. As a fire is erupted from all of the High Tower, heraldry and all of the trappings of the household, the usurpers literally lit on fire. And then she hears about Tumbledin. She realizes that Ormond is a serious player in the game.

Like, this is no joke, right? The Darren thing, which we'll talk about more, that's not just a casual, like, that's not casual. He's a plotter. He's a schemer. He anticipated that they would come seek Darren if he was prepared. It helps if you could just be like, I promise I'm going to take the Rose Road home. And nobody like checks on that.

I have a lot of notes for Damon on how he handled that. Leave one of those dragons behind. Have the dragon who's right there. Sniff the rider. Do a dragon rider pairing test. Do some due diligence, Damon. Tissarian, the blue queen is right there. Because he's thinking about other stuff.

There's guys with wings out there. There's guys of wings on the edge of the world. He's on to the future. I think the question of like, is the grief a road to the madness? That's another, I think, undeniable, like, Danny come. Because while they fucked up Danny's arc in Game of Thrones, I think anyone, we are among the most critical people at the end of Game of Thrones. It was a botch.

However, it's also true that the seeds were planted for DeNaris's madness from the beginning. It just wasn't well executed at the end. Absolutely. And in the books, it's like, it's so. much more apparent. And if they had just sort of slow rolled it instead of tried to like shock us all with it at the end of Thrones, that probably would play better. Yeah, because it felt like she was like

I've got my husband and everything is all good and now I've lost my mind because I like saw two things. Monsendez-was killed. Jora was killed again. Spoilers, we apologize. Hopefully you've watched Game of Thrones. You should check it out. You know, everybody in the kingdom wants to be on the throne instead of me. I'm waiting 30 years for all the TV

series to be made and then watching them in chronological George Martin order. Honestly, it sounds like, a really fun way to spend a couple weekends. A couple weekends. Yeah, you can get through a solid like 14 episodes and a Saturday if you put your mind to it. Mallory is the queen of the binge. No one has ever done it better.

That's why she's like, are they still playing soccer? Do they have commercials? The moment you talked about on the battlemen, we kind of jump around here for the rest of the pot or whatever. But the battleman scene was really cool to me because I love them switching between High Valerian and quote-unquote English or whatever. I also loved this idea like, you know, the show doesn't have the advantage or disadvantage of whatever the books, the source material is, which is like stated in its concept that it's like multiple POVs. Like it's multiple narrators telling you like this might have happened, this might have happened, there's disagreement about this. So the show is like this is the definitive version of what these characters are doing. That being said, that kind of moment of between the two of them.

them gives you an idea of how different characters would see the world anyway. And if these two people are speaking in such almost like mythological, world historical terms about who they are, who their family is, where they came from, what almost destroyed them, and where they want to go, it has nothing to fucking do with any of the people eating rat at the table. I was going to say, meanwhile, the rats are eating the candles. You know what I mean? But that almost in a way, if I can keep going with like this idea. Yeah. She should listen to Damon.

Oh, interesting. Do you think so? Give us your takes on Damon's platform. You can't be like a Targaryen democratic socialist. You have to be like, I am a Targaryen. Counterpoint. Damon? We are going to the moon. Counterpoint? Damon walked up to Ormond and was like, the war has ended. Is that true? Does Damon seem like he's on top of his shit? They could be in Dorn tomorrow, Mallory. Yeah. A honeymoon enduring. I knew you were going to come out riding for Damon's stakes in this episode.

I just think of that. I mean, like, take me to the winged men. That's what I was to see. I don't know. I was kind of watching that saying, Damon has some points. I mean, Damon always has some points. He's the best character. He's amazing to watch. When she's like, we're broke and he's like, why are we broke? You know what I mean? Thailand hid the money? Okay. Let's go get other money, you know? Like, why are we broke? I want to ask one more Targaryen question. This one brings Allison in because I thought that the scene between Reneera and Allison where she's like, well, what did you do when you had all these petitioners? and what do you think my father would do? And Allison's response,

which I referenced in the intro about your father constructed a world of his own that neither of us ever stepped in. Tell me, give me your read on that line. This is one for casuals, I think, like that's several years ago now in my mind that I saw Vassaris last, kind of. So it's any kind of refresher.

Do you feel like Allison was saying the Vesaris you knew was not the real Viceris? Do you feel like she was saying this is a guy who had to build little models and abdicate his dragon riding power because he was so scared of what he could be? I mean, how did you read that line from her? When she says a world of his own construction

that neither of us have set foot in. It was like the Lego set was really big but not big enough to literally walk into. That's part of it. Or is it a gendered thing? I think it's a gendered thing. I think it's just sort of because Viseris is a man, even though he like didn't have his dragon

and, you know, was quite ineffective in many ways, history will remember him as a great king because he didn't have to be questioned constantly whereas Allison was shut out of rooms and Renera was shut out of rooms. I just think that's simply elsewhere in the episode, will you blame me only for what men have done?

This is the language that they're speaking here. And it's just sort of like, Viseris is allowed to be a doddering old dude with his Legos because he was a man and like Reneer can't serve a few rats to some nobles who deserve it? Did you guys have a moment where you're like, oh, okay, at least like a lovely pile of

some sort of grain rice, quinoa, and then it's like, oh, is that? I'm just glad she didn't serve the rat's family style. Are they madgis? They were wriggling. Were they wriggling? No, they were fried.

She threw those in a broiler. Like, they were, they were, there was. Are they maggots? The rats were, I thought it was cussed. No, I thought there was some caramelization on the rats. The rat, the rat looks, like if you were a survivor or the rat, you'd eat that. I would definitely eat that rat. I would definitely eat that rat.

I would like to see the head. I would like to see the head feet and tails removed personally, but. You just want torso. I would like thigh-in-bbed. That's the deal breaker for me. But if it was on a bed of like purled, erbed, purled kuscus. Yeah.

Little garnish. There's some nice, what sort of sauce. There's a protein on that bone. And as he said, we are looking for a gluten-free diet here in the kingdom. Our own Torin Manderlite's like, I loved.

Nice move. I love this introduction of Toran-Manderly. That was great. Chris, your questions are always wonderful. They're real duzies today. Like, I think that on the Alice in front, just in case we don't come back, I just want to quickly say, Helena is in the first scene, too, right?

And then mentioned in the second. Does that make you feel better about J? I just think it bears mentioning and remembering for all of us that Helena's son was also killed. In front of her, his throat was slid as in his bed, right? So, you know, we're all keep a tally. Blood and she's right. You're in your bag today with the calls. Do you think that's why Helena's like, I don't want to be in here in that room?

I mean, maybe it's... That wasn't the room... That was, like, where their nursery was, maybe. Yeah, they were, yeah. I don't know. Niro's like, that's like problem number 90. She's like, you're going to get to see Jihara for an hour every three days. You'll get some visitation privileges and you'll get to go to the godswood.

Allison's saying you may not rule and remain yourself to Renera. I love, it kind of connects to what you're asking and to what you're saying. Like, there is a kind of, if you're a king, you were raised to do this and it's like inherent in your nature. There's also a read on it that. power corrupts anybody that nobody could remain the hold on to the pure way that they want to do it, right? But Allison has that experience that she's sharing. What did this do to her to be thrust into these situations? Even the moments when she saw it actively, the ones where she didn't was weaponized by her father or people around her. I thought it was so effective that it was

presented as, it wasn't a threat. Like this is what's going to happen to you. It was inevitability, right? There was this like nihilistic sense. Its own prophecy. Yes, exactly. Yeah. It's a beautiful way to put it. And it was so haunting as we talk, as Ranira opens the episode, talking about the ghosts and feeling the ghosts, it's like, well, what, how did they all become ghosts? What choices did these people make and what happened to them, right? And some of it is like, oh, this kid with curly hairs walking down the hall and happens to look like Jace. Shout out Harry Collette. Paid for three episodes at least I was happy for her. Bang. I was happy for Harry. When that sag check hits. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But on the Vassarra's front, I was like, I don't know, I think Viseras made a lot of mistakes.

right? And I think that his inability to make a firm decision allow the dance to happen. It's not even to think. Period. Period. Right. Yeah. So he is not blameless. And frankly, the fact then that Renira is sort of starting to deify his memory is wrapped up and entwined with this whole, like, what image do we paint and want to

convey? I thought that Damon's word choice of renounce for, like, renounced his dragon was more fascinating than and I can properly articulate in the podcast. He rode Belarion the Black Dred. Like that is the dragon that Viseras claimed. The most fabled dragon in Westerosi history.

He rode him around a few times. Balaerian was a couple centuries old. And a year later, he died. And that's it. So a dragon king for the bulk of his life had no dragon. And there's this question... But wasn't it also that Vissaris was scared by that flight and didn't go back on the dragon? Right.

There's this question of like when Damon is saying he feared the power and Reneera is calling back to that, you know, opening stress. of the series that we've talked about many times on the pod, like a power man should never have trifled with, like the idea that we could control dragons, that hubris we've discussed, that's what brought Valeria, it's doom. Vesaris was a student of history. The Lego sets we like to joke about, it's old Valeria. He's thinking about the doom of Valeria, the downfall.

The reason the Targaryens are the only dragon riding family is because a Targaryen, Danis, the Dreamer, had a prophetic dream. And by the way, on the what can sometimes lead to madness, prophetic dreams, they don't help. They don't help, Chris. But the doom is like a near biblical disaster. Yeah, it's a cataclysm. And they knew it was going to happen and escaped? That's right.

One of them saw it. Yeah. Okay. Yes. So there's all of this in the mix. You know, Vesaris has this clarity when he's naming or near an air. But back on the Ovalier, we're like, did the Johnsons have dragons too? Like, was it like all these.

There were other dragon riders. And it's, and the Johnsons are like, we're going to stay put. We don't believe in your stupid dream. We love the view of the 14 flames. Yeah. And the Targs are like, we're going to take our dragons and just like hop, skip and jump over the bay and then doom. Okay.

Yeah. So was it wisdom for Viseris to fear of the dragons, to fear the idea that these rulers could control them, the hubris of thinking you could? I think that even though I put a lot of blame on Viseris's doorstep, there's real wisdom, and I love a dragon, there's real wisdom in that, that more of these characters would do well to heed. That is a wiser thing to say than Damon's saying, you will have an empire unassailable, and our children will rule it forever in a day.

But he saw a silver-haired, a cat. with dragons at her breasts in his prophecy. And he's like, that's our line. Yeah. That comes from us. We are gods. Little does he know that a Barathe is on the throne when that happens and then a Stark will wind up on the throne at the end of the day?

The dragons have been gone. Yeah. You mentioned Helena saying like, I can't be in this room. Yeah. One of the really cool underlying themes of this episode was how everybody's personal pain is special to them, but does not make it special to other people. And so Reniro kind of like walking around and everybody's being like, hey, my wife's missing or, hey, like, I gave up everything to get you here.

Now I need you just to sign some paperwork that changes the last name of my sons. Or Allison being like, did you think about that before you beheaded my father? Yeah, incredible. And, you know, Allison's situation where she is not particularly mourning her father and is almost like, I don't really know what to do with this Darren kid. I haven't seen him in years. Like, he's not really, I don't really feel a connection to him, but sure, I'll go check him out before he goes to the wall. But also he was like the one good boy. Right.

Like, Amon and Agon suck. She's like Helena, my bug, my adult. That's too far for her. My Adelbug daughter. She has not built up and Aman and Agon were right in case yet. But Darren. Yep. So can we just say, we think we've seen Darren this season.

There is a redheaded squire hanging around Ormond in the first episode. And we think that's probably Darren. I was distracted by all the perfume stuff. Absolutely. There was like a boy that the camera like lingers on and is right there. And like it was very weird. You asked us about Darren last week and we were like, I don't know, have we seen him? They didn't announce who was playing him.

We were all very confused and it was just so they could pull off this. And there are a couple of characters that are big deals historically in Thrones and specifically in this series that it's like, are we going to see this person or this character? You know, it just felt like so bizarre that they wouldn't do it. And they showed us his dragon last season. And so it was like really weird that they had announced him. That's because they're doing this little bait and switch thing. But we think, and I think this is why the minute Allison walks in the room and she sees the blonde head, she's like, wrong kid. Right.

This kid actually has red hair like me, like my, like Gwain, you know, like a lot of the high towers are redheads. And so we saw a redheaded boy. Interesting. Or he does have the signature hair because why would Ormond have dyed it that color thinking it would fool them? But maybe it's part of the bit is like they don't know who this fucker is. Yeah. I had to respect this on the show. Behaphy, like we were really baffled by the wait for Darren. As Joe noted, a dragon rider

of consequence not being in the story for this long. Season 3 is killing it so far. That remains an incredibly perplexing choice, I think. However, here we are, Ormond, the Hightower Army, Tissarion, Darren, fake Darren, Farron for my fagon young Griff heads. Still waiting for Young Griff on TV. A lot of people are at home like, yeah, you don't know, but they are. There There was a character name Aegon in the books that people thought was fake. So they called him Fagin. So she went by Faron. Not Agon, too.

No, that was like something we were waiting for. Because this is obviously like, she's like, let's just call it, say he's dead. And they're like, okay. And if he comes back, we'll just say he's an imposter, right? Like that was her. That's Agon. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But he's Agon the second? Egan the second. Okay. Yes. The fact that when Darren is finally hearing the story, the show was like,

We're going to wink at how long we made you wait and make you wait a little longer with a fake. Because this fake Darren thing doesn't happen in the text. This is a show invention. I just really kind of admire the Hutzpah. I thought it was really fun. And also a super, super good way to lean into the hilarity of these characters not knowing each other. Like, to Joe's point about Allison saying, like, well, he was, isn't he like the one who turned out? Okay.

When she asked Gawain that last season, like, what's Darren? Like, what's my own son? Like, it was so heartbreaking for her to confront the idea that, you know, And she arrested. Yeah. How's a boarding school? Is the thing that made him turn out okay, growing up away from me? That was a question Allison asked me.

It was heartbreaking. So there's all of that. But Damon's like well-met nephew and then Renera flat out introducing herself to, again, wrong character, not actually him, but her brother. And she doesn't know it's not her brother. I'm your sister. I'm our father's chosen heir. It's not him. This is deliriously good.

It's also really funny because, like, Renira, by all accounts, is like actually kind of a good mom. And so she's so awkward with this kid because she's like, I might have to kill you in the morning. You know, there's all to that. You thought it was weird when she watched him sleep for like four hours and picked up his various like bird carvings and thought about whether to kill him. Mere minutes. It was odd. But it was also a guy. But every time she talked to him, it was so awkward.

She was kind of patting herself on the back for this wall idea. Yeah. She's just like, I'm such a visionary. Like, we're going to get you out of here. She's a progressive. Right. And then she gets up there. And it's just like, all that was for, I should have just lit you on fire.

On the point of, they don't know each other. The one thing I want to say about that fake Darren reveal scene, though, that I loved is that Allison walks in. And from the second Allison walks in, Rainer is like, a wrong kid. Yes. She knows Allison. Oh, she can tell. Like the back of her headshot. Not that, like, Olivia Cook was doing, like, very subtle facial expression.

But, like, Rennar was immediately like, oh, wrong kid. Got it. I loved that character beat up in terms of their relationship. but I also like the character to be for Allison, just the choice. She could not reveal the truth there. That's a decision she could make to the wall. Yeah. She could preserve the cover, but she doesn't because her goal still is to get the fuck out of there with Helena and Jehara.

And if Renera finds out that that's not really Darren and that Allison knew and didn't tell her, it's a rap for Allison. So she has to make the decision to reveal the treachery of her own cousin in her house, thus leading Renera to go seek out the real Darren. in. Like, the complexity of that is really, really delicious. Well, she's almost being like a method actor pragmatist. It's like, in the moment, this works. Yeah. In the moment, I can be sort of like Renier's weird quasi-confidant and be a little bit emotionally naked with her.

Yeah. But I also happen to know that, you know, Agon is somewhere out there, right? Like, she knows that. Yes. Yeah. And that the High Tower Army is still out there. And, like, all this stuff is still going on. And I also know, Reneer said she would let me go and she didn't.

Right. You know? Yes. Which she rightly calls her out on. Yes. So there's a lot going on. When I brought up that thing about like everybody's pain, especially them, I thought the best example of this was the Corlissine, which was a wonderful moment from Steve Toussaint who like has had to just, you know, stare at the sea a lot in this series and be very stoic. And this breaks him because he's finally decided to anoint these two guys as his, his heirs after his family has been through.

so much and he's lost his essentially his seat of power and his riches and everything he worked for in his life and most of his fleet and all this stuff and he's like this should be easy. All you got to do is just call these guys voyeur and that would be awesome and then... We know you don't have

a problem giving a different last name to some kids. We've seen you do it. Talk me through, first of all there's an obvious overtone of like racial prejudice being suggested in the dialogue but I don't necessarily know whether the characters would necessarily be

talking about that, right? Like, is he saying the line that he uses, say aloud to me, why your children deserve what mine are denied? So she can't say it aloud other than optics, you know? Yeah. What's that about? Well, so Joffrey, who's the last

remaining kid that she had. With Lainor. Sure. With Lainer. Exactly. Yeah, just so. She's like fetched Joffrey. He's next in line, right? So there's one more son of Harwin Strong. Rana's supposed to be babysitting in the veil. He's in the veil. He's up in the veil with your axi's his dragon.

Raina was supposed to go with the blonde babies. With the blonde babies. With the blonde babies. On the gay abandon. The cog. On the gay abandon. But yeah. So I like the read of racial overtones here.

And this is also just sort of like, what's good for the goose is not good for the gander? Like what can royals get away with that Valerians, for all their riches, for all their everything, are not allowed to do? I love this bind that it puts Reneer in because, again, there's just like no real winning for Reneira here. Like, at home, we're screaming like Corliss has supported you, of course, and we like Adam and Alan. Like- Do you fuck with Dragonwriters. I mean, left and right, left and right. But for Corliss to not only confront her about this, but confront her in such a public place where there are people right out of frame who were listening to him scream bastards, which to bring up Vaman. Dude.

This is the thing, right? Vesaris is like, anybody who calls them bastards gets their tongue cut out. Yeah. And then Damon caught Vaman's head off for shouting this exact line. This exact same thing. And the gold cloak is standing right there. Yeah. Hot Luther.

Looking great. But where he's like, well, like, that puts him in a tough spot. And so she doesn't like kill Corliss, nor should she, I guess. But like, he's screaming bastard in such a public place. And like, all of this is being carried out so publicly, as we mentioned. Yes. Which is such a difference between. what she's had to deal with in the past.

Yeah, where she had three members of her council at Dragonstone who couldn't be bothered to help her out. And now there are people. To the detriment of the show I thought, where it was just like, she's just walking into this room and being like, move this piece here. And now I'll go back to my chambers. And now she's just like hopping over rats

and doing all kinds of things. To the no good choices point and the number of moments and character sets and scenarios that applies to. So with Darren, it's like, okay, you think of the you are the challenge Alison Egan moment from season one. And like, that's true.

He is a challenge. The case to kill him is clear. Then you think of, no man is as a curse as the kin slayer. The case not to do it is clear plus everything she says. The courtless situation, like I was thinking of the evolution, the ebbs and flows less than evolution for Rainier here. Because for Jace, for the kids, for Renira, you mentioned Vassaris and his reaction to it, the idea that anybody would publicly imply or outright state that Renera's children were bastards

was such a source of security, anxiety, fear, outright treason, right? But when Reneura got into this, the gods have chosen me, C-smoken Adam appeared, and it told me the gods think I'm the one, and now every choice I make I will justify through that lens. Part of the thing she said heading into the red sewing, which up to the dragon math, but at great bloody cost, was, well then, let us raise an army of bastards, because it was what Renira needed in the moment.

And the red sewing was when Hugh and Ulf ended up claiming their dragons. And a lot of people died, right? So let us raise an army of bastards. It was this big turn from the thing that she had feared and tried to shy away from and suppress to, fuck it, wear it like armor, lean in because it's going to make us stronger. Now we've swam back because she's in the red keep on the iron throne. If Corlis, the Valerians are the most important ally for Renira, period.

If the Valerian fleet had not just been decimated and the gold that Reneera needed was still available and Corliss's whole household hadn't just been sacked and burned, does she have the gall to say this to him to make that choice? Whether the fear is justified or not, I don't think so. And send there's this larger question that Joe has been tracking since the minute the show started, Reneer is bad at diplomacy. Team Black is bad at diplomacy. Except for Jace, RIP. I know, he was good at it. Rnerner. Jays with the twins, the highlight.

real. Renera deciding to feed the common folk, the small folk. Good, great. We applaud it. Renira doing that by feeding rats to lords and ladies and then being like, fuck it, they're just kind of mid. Dude, how many times how about Renera walking around being like

who gives a shit who has heron haul? Like, I have the land. Chris is like, I understand how important heron haul. Yeah, but I was just like, that's a wild thing to just shout. Right. And then give it to Alice who asked for it. And this gets this is this through line and theme we've been tracking of like,

Corliss are really important ally. Your hand. Yeah, the hand of the queen. The hand of the queen wants this thing. You don't care. What you need is more important than what he needs. Hugh chases Renier up the stairs and it's like, what about my living and my wife and the things you promised me?

You know what's so funny about Hugh Hammer, my guy, is when you rewatch season two episode one, the petition scene for Aegon, it's Hugh Hammer showing up and being like, can I get paid? That's right. And here he is once again being like, hey, can I get paid? paid? Like, can someone fucking pay me, please? Yeah. Ulf, like, did they offer Olf? Heron Hall? Does Damon offer a fucking joke about to Ulf? He's like, do you want, no, about Old Town? He's want the High Tower seat.

Like, fuck off. He does actually want a castle. That's been made clear. He's like, um, he's like, oh, and the name of talking about. I agree. It was hysterical. Alice wanted Heron. It made me, and the, Reneer even uses the language in this episode, like, remind them, which is how she, lost her the Baratheans in season one, in the fateful Amen Luke sequence. But Boris Barthi Yeah.

He was like, you're correct. She doesn't, you are fucking killing you. But Boris Barathe was like, she doesn't get to talk to me this way. Yeah.

Like, so Reneer taking for granted the pledge, it made it extra delicious that Ormond bent the knee swear to an oath. I don't know if you've heard Joe. They make you swear and swear.

Well, also, didn't Orman say one's as good of another as another? He doesn't give a shit about this ceremony. Come on. But also what good is anybody's word if you can't recognize a traitor from somebody who's actually loyal to you?

Of course. And you don't know how to tend the person. You should be tending. Like, they're not taking care of that people. I also think the, like, absolute, like, Ava Perone imagery of Reneera giving out, like, a rudabega to, like, starving people. It's like, here, a potato, you know, you're saving. That scene actually, it felt like a little bit of, like, I don't really, this episode's, like, over budget. we don't have enough for like a lot of extras,

but it actually worked that like 40 people showed up for this big Redera rally and they were like, gee, thanks. You know, like. She also had just like one cart of dry goods. I was like, you know, and there's like five gold cloaks sprinkled about or whatever. I remember.

So the faith watching on the heels of that. The way that she treats Corliss, the way that she humiliates Adam in a way. No question. Yeah. The way Damon nearly beheads Ulf in Nighting him. That was so funny. Really funny.

He's like, okay. All of that goes back to that battlement conversation where he's like, we're not like them. Like, we are special.

Like, it's Targaryen exceptionalism. It's ubermensch weirdness. And it's like, even if these people have dragons, they're not the same as us. And I, you know,

like that doesn't seem like it's going to bode well, you know? Yeah, it's a good flag. Can I go back to your guys, James Norton, Orman High Tower? Oh, yeah.

Please. The fact that the thing is he had this fake kid ready. Yeah. Like he's just 200 steps ahead of these dumb and bred Targaryans. And I'm just like really excited for, I thought the plot was really funny and fun. But it's also just like a great introduction to this character. He hates smelly things. He looks great in his armor and he's fucking smarter than the rest of them.

Speaking of that, the kid who played Gisis getting the episode fee for showing up as a ghost in three. James Norton has had to walk out of two tents and be like, okay. And then he's just like James Norton. Which brings me to map time. Sure, map time. I do think we should just for the, because the episode concludes with this great cliffhanger. Yeah. Of Ormond has gone back on his word.

Really, like, just was unmonitored in. He never meant to stick to that. He was like, let's go back on the Rosewood. Everybody knows that I'm being serious by. this. He has taken Tumbledon. Yes. Tumbledon is where they keep the dragons. Correct?

No. Okay. There just happened to be a dragon keeper who was the... Oh, okay. Yeah, it was really weird. I was confused when that guy showed up and he was like... So they could speak for Lerre. I don't know.

I don't know why that was... He had so much soot on him. I was like, oh, is he just like... It was a dragon keeper. Okay. But that's not where the dragons... No. We're going to do a brief map time and I would like to apologize to the audio listeners of this

podcast. I will speak in cardinal directions this time. We've added something to the map. I don't know if this is able to be seen, but I will speak into the microphone. The orange is Tumbledon. It is southwest of Kings Landing. Oh, a little bit off the water. Yeah.

Well, on the headwaters of the Mandar. On the headwaters of the Mandar. It is the last sort of leal, you know, outpost between King's Landing and where the high towers come from. Okay. So sort of a rehobif, you know, like near the Chesapeed. So it's, it's, oh my God. Love that mid-Atlantic. The controversy last week.

Joe last week was like, should we map this onto England? I just want to say, I rarely read the comments, many people in the comments saying the Camden, Philly Park Barrison was good. Yeah, because they're right next to each other. And Baltimore and they see are further away. I have a filter that only agrees with me. Anyway, regardless, Tumpleton is a town. There's a ton of like innocence there. Yeah.

And they've taken a dragon and a dragon rider who they have inside the town. Darren. Darren and Tessarian, inside the town and the high tower people and he's got thousands of troops. Right, 15,000. 15,000 troops have taken the city. And so it has given them an outpost right next to King's Landing. Yes. That Reneer cannot like burn him out of because to burn him out of there is to burn a bunch of innocents.

Can you grab the map again? Because I just want to do a really quick reset of where various armies are. I mean, this isn't helpful because this is the beginning of last week's episode. I should have made a new map. I think Kristen Cole and the rapists are still up north by the guy. They sure are. Right? Yeah. And the high.

Yeah, they were closing the last stretch to Harenhall after seeing Amund and Vagar fly up. So I know that this is not an actual, like, two-scale map. Certainly not. She has now got forces on her north and south. Yes. And Agon is over here. She doesn't know where Agon is. Right.

But Agonne. Right. Okay. Agon and Laris are over here north of Kings Landing on the coast, heading for Rook's rest. And then she's got Starks or like that other army that the garrison, but they were burned at Harenhall. No, no, no. They left a few people behind, but most of them are marching down to Kingslandings.

Yes. Damon sent them to march, to meet them at Kings Landing. So. We've got some tension. So the point being is like the three biggest targets for her are the three male heirs to the throne. Amen and Vagar up in Heron Hall. But she does, does she know Aiman and Vagar or at Heron Hall? Yes. Yes.

Amen and Vagar up at Harenhall. Well, Agon, wherever he is. They do say they don't know where in this episode. Oh, that was interesting. At large. Yeah, they do say they don't know. We know that Vigar and Eman and Dian and Arrano. They say Vagin is, they're like, where's sheepstealer?

There's a couple of things in this episode that I think the viewers know that the characters don't. Correct. Fair. So they're trying to find Agan's body. They know A. They know Aeman left. Yeah, and Allison's like, just say he's dead. He's burned.

No one will able to be able to identify him. Like, don't worry about it. We replied from Rainer there. It was like, even now you're bargaining for his life. I know. Like, that is what I would have said in that moment. Sorry. I don't know, but I think it's a pretty good solution.

And then that was the great, actually, the great part was that Reneer is like, how dare you suggest that? And then immediately did it. Yeah. And then. It's a good point. It's a good point. So the point is, even in Vagar are, they went north.

Whether or not they know they're near Harrenoll, I guess they don't, even though Vagar is massive and parked outside Harren Hall. but okay. Agon, Sunfire Long and the Dying at large, but, you know, to the east of them.

And then Darren and Tesarian to the south of them. And Raina, who they don't know is the sheepstealer rider. And they're actively hunting for.

Damon's like, don't worry, I'll take care of it. Be Arthur? Exactly. Yeah, Dorothy's More. Sends Bail in this episode.

out to scout, right, for sheepster. By the way, the moment where like Bela and Rainera pass each other in the hall, no words exchanged. Clearly, Renera's like, you were there when my son died and it should have been you. And that's part of why I was willing to say you out. She said that last week. She's like, you're to blame too, you know?

Yeah. So like, that's a source attention. Is there anything else that the characters don't know that we do? I'm trying to think. I don't think so. I think the sheepstealer one was the big one. And where is Vagar? And where is Vagar? And Agan is alive.

And Damon kind of being like, this wacky old midwife up in Harenhall. Yeah. That was such an incredible, like, don't tell on yourself moment. Yeah. I was cracking up. She's crazy. I think I'd met her once. Oh.

I did think it was sweet. Damon looked really sad about Simon. He did. He looked. He was like, oh, shit. Simon got God. That's a bummer. We really bonded over like the.

The venison and the currents. But yeah, then to immediately be like, um, there's a lot going on, I know, but like, does anyone have an update on like this one chick who happened to be there? It was nuts. That was crazy, though, on the flip side, very sweet that Rainera can't sleep because of all the ghosts. Goes and curls up in Damon's bed and I'm like interlocking fingers. And he like lifts his arm for her. I was really thinking of both of you who love incest when I saw that moment.

And I was like, I get it. So we leave this episode. So Tumbledon has been taken. That's right. She wants Damon to go to the veil. Yes. To get coin from Jan and never met troops. Some money, but presumably.

Rout row. Sheep Steelers there. Sheep Steelers there. It's worrying. Yeah. And then everything else is just basically topsy-turvy in the kingdom. I will also say that... And we have not seen the scenes from next week, so we don't...

No, we don't know. But I will say that we got immediate... You know, our question was sort of like, last week we saw Masari and Damon sort of jockeying for Reneer's ear. and just like immediately here. They're in the small council room just sniping at each other. I mean, fuck you Keltygar.

And great, because they're like on this crazy political spectrum. Like, it's kind of fun to watch them. Just incredible that Damon's like, who's us? Do we have time for one more topic? Of course. Please. We have time for as much as you want, man.

The seven. Oh, the seption. The septine needing. I mean, this was great because this was so Henry, like, needing to basically like be like, I'll break away from the church if I have to. She didn't have to. actually say that, but there's echoes of that in the same way of your...

You've made yourself very clear. I thought that was awesome. The tension between old gods and new or obviously like very present in Thrones. Her basically being like, I need you to co-sign this and like basically the people need to see that you guys are all behind me and him be like, well technically like, you know, we have not done the... We need an autopsy. We need a coroner. times have not hit, you know. Bongbong, yeah, but he's also like,

your rule, where's the body? Yeah. Show me a body. Where's Tylin Lannister? I mean, how come she can't just be like, here's a pile of ashes, that's Agon? Oh. Maybe, maybe, like you said, we haven't seen the scenes for episode.

She should just burn a bunch of rats. Yeah. And she's like, that's, that's, that's, that's him right there. Also, on that is Thailand and Lannister alive front? Yes. I will say, I'm, I'm defrosting a bit on this because I was like, we don't know. They're doing something here that we don't know.

So I don't have a book answer for you whether or not Thailand Lannister is alive or not. We saw him go in the water. He was wearing a bunch of armor. I was like, that guy's dead for sure. We thought that about Coralus. But like in this episode... You think Thailand's out there with the triarchy? Well...

Pretending to be triarchy? Yes. Someone says, surely he died, you know? And I was just like... That guy's alive. I was like, uh-oh. I think he might be alive. So when the Green Council made its move in the penultimate episode of season one, Thailand was like, don't worry, guys.

I divided the coin. So the idea that we know from season one is that he put the gold in more than one place. That's also good to remember because for a second I was just like, did Laris steal all this money? Like I couldn't remember who took. Laris has bragged elsewhere about taking the Heron Hall coffers into his patrol. There's a lot of money in different places. On the high septent front, we should just say quickly because so this, this, as is discussed in the scene, this member of the faith was there for Agon's coronation at the end of season one. He's the one who anointed him.

At the time, there was this question. And then again, when this guy walked in the scene, I was like, is this Septin Eustis, who is one of the main sources and narrators in Fireblood? It's not, just in case anybody's wondering, his character name is High Septin Balman. Doesn't mean Eustace isn't out there. It's stirring shit up,

but this is not Eustace in case anyone is wondering. It's not a question that I prepared you for, nor is it one that I expect you to just be able to like, but the seven is what Jonathan Price's character was. in Thrones. And so they... Yes, High Sparrow. Yeah.

Go through different periods of being central and exiled to society then. I don't think they're ever exiled. It's just sort of like how prominent they are or how prominent can't... Like, how powerful is the Pope

at any given time? There's always a Pope, but how powerful is the Pope? Yes. And yes. And there... And does he root for the Chicago White's time? Is he American?

Is he pretty dope, actually. Sometimes you get a rat's there. Yeah. The history, I thought the scene did a good job of reminding us because we move across not just our real life timeline, but the canonical timeline. And so what we have witnessed, high sparrow shoutout is great, that's in the future. It's not a lesson Reneira can heed, but there are lessons from the past between the Targaryens and the faith that Reneira should be thinking about. This threat is issued in this episode for a reason

to remind Reneer seriously, like, don't fuck with us. And you used the term Targaryen exceptionalism before, like the doctrine of Targaryen exceptionalism. The Targaryens of the faith have basically like bargain to allow the Targaryians to fuck each other. But the faith has always been like, you guys are unholy and foul and wrong and we're not for it. So when the faith militant to the four fellows. Barbecued by your dragons. So, okay, go ahead.

Do your incest. But if they're not getting money coming in, if there's a political lever for them to pull. This is something that Reneer should be taking seriously because many times the Targary, across both in the past and the future, the Targaryens and the faith have been at loggerheads with each other. You shout out the specific name of a character. Can I shout out one more? Please.

Lady Joanna Lannister. Your favorite. Lady Joanna Lannister. Did she come up in this episode? Yeah. She gets a mention. She's in charge of Cachelly Rock right now because Jason Lannister's dead in Thailand is, who knows where.

In the drink. Yeah. And his kid in the drink. Or pretending to be a triarchy soldier just living out like. I mean, maybe he'll die as a guy. Yeah. Maybe he'll come back. Yeah.

Maybe we'll come back to the stuff to us. I gotta say. Just a tough time to be a woman in Westrose. Just like every single time. Share more. When they're like the triarchy are kidnapping daughters and wives. I was just like, I'm an ally. Asking, we can't pay? Not on my watch.

And even Rainer is like, you think I give a fuck? I mean, she's got other stuff on her mind. Damon's like, we got to feed all these people with the hell. I have to very quickly knight them. Yeah. The nighting scene, which we've already brought up a couple times, I thought that was one of the best, like, real, oh, the tone that you're used to in a moment like this is deliberately being presented to you differently.

I think especially not that it was sort of like made in. conversation with, but especially off the back of a night of the seven kingdom. Watching our guy Raymond and like, yeah. Are we think of my favorite Jamie and Brae? How I like wept during the nighting in that show. It's the sickest moment of that show. I think this. You're like, uh-oh.

This is so good. We can wrap it up there. I thought this obviously was an amazing episode. We're going to miss you next week. I know, no me next week. What will we do? What if it is so good? What if it's such a banger that you're like, guys, I'm back.

I'm back. I'm manifesting. But like I'm just, I'm going to fly back. Yeah, get on your dragon. Dragons are useful. The American Airlines dragon. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. From Oldville area.

Lovely to hang out with you. Please listen to House of R. Check out the watch. Thank you to Alley and everybody for producing us today. And we'll be back. These two will be back next week, next Sunday. And then I will be back the following week. Hell yeah.

See you then. Hey, y'all. It's Kelly Clarkson with Wayfair. Ever order furniture online and wonder what if? Like, what if it doesn't hold up? That sofa was boarding. He's old. You should have ordered from Wayfair. With Wayfair, there's no what if. Just style you love and quality you can trust. Visit Wayfair.ca. Wayfair, every style, every home.