House of R - ‘House of the Dragon’ Season 3 Premiere Reactions | Talk the Thrones

Episode Date: June 22, 2026

Chris Ryan, Mallory Rubin, and Joanna Robinson are back and ready to talk all things Westeros! They jump right into breaking down ‘House of the Dragon’ Season 3, Episode 1. They discuss the Battle of the Gullet, get into Alicent and Aemond’s heated talk, and end with what we all need: a little dragon math to know which dragons are with which people. (00:00) Intro(01:18) CR’s recap(06:09) Favorite moment of the episode(14:41) Pace of the show(18:49) The Battle of the Gullet(24:55) Rhaena and Sheepstealer(28:40) What were Jace’s motivations?(32:32) Corlys Velaryon and his family(36:47) Who won the Battle of the Gullet?(39:20) Alicent and Aemond’s relationship(44:33) Divisions inside Team Green and Team Black(47:28) Alys the witch and the Isle of Faces(49:23) What is Daemon up to?(51:33) What is Criston Cole up to?(56:37) Episode 1: Dragon math Hosts: Chris Ryan, Mallory Rubin, and Joanna RobinsonProducers: Aleya Zenieris, Carlos Chiriboga, and Scott LeeSocial: Jomi AdeniranSet Production: Jonathan Ratliff and Gitu MehraAdditional Production Support: Arjuna Ramgopowell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello and welcome to Talk the Thrones. My name is Chris Ryan. I am joined as always by Joanna Robinson and a lady who has been swearing oceans are battlefields for years. The bitch fist. Incredible. It's Valerie Rubin. I hope that sticks. Formally requesting that that sticks.

Should that just be like your Chiron on here? Yeah, great name for a ship. Great new moniker. Oh, man. We are back after two years. Wild. Waiting for House of the Dragon to return. We're here to talk about all the hot.

action in the first episode, everything that's fit to print on audio and video. We are coming to you after the season three premiere. Let's jump right in with the recap after this. Are you one of those media strategy people clicking through slides, scrolling spreadsheets? Yes? Good. This is for you. Because on Spotify, there's an audience that's different, locked in, loyal, invested. They're called fans. Fans don't just listen to music. They feel seen by it like it belongs to them. So when your brand shows up on Spotify,

that's who you're talking to. And you're right next to artists like me, Lizzo. So, are you ready to talk to fans? Spotify advertising. You're among fans. Okay, guys, lots of blood, lots of fire, lots of nautical warfare in this one. Let's dive into the recap.

Excited. I miss this. The action picks up two years later for the audience, but just two seconds later for the characters that is modern TV, baby! Raina Targaryen is right where we left her, test driving sheepstealer somewhere over the veil. It's going about as well as when I tried to learn stick on my dad's Mazda and almost left his transmission on a Vermont highway.

Back in King's Landing, Amon is doing the first 100 days thing that new leaders like to do after ascending to the throne that his brother abdicated. And when I say abdicated, I mean he ran for his life with Laris and took a bunch of of gold with him. He only gets so far getting picked up somewhere on the road by Reneer's men who decide to sell Agon and Lars for a price. And speaking of Renira, she's having one of what will be many spirited political debates with her annoying son, Jase.

Sheesh. She wants to go all in on the Allison Peace Plan, but Jase is skeptical. He goes full Admiral Akbar warning her, it's a trap, but does she listen? She does not. By the way, this entire peace plan rests on Amon not being king and flying to meet Chrissy Cole in the Riverlands. But what this book presupposes is, what if he didn't? When Allison returns to King's landing, she finds out that Amon has declared himself King,

lays out the alliance of the high towers by land and air and the triarchy by sea, and she tries to persuade Amon to fly to Cole's aid, and he says no. But then one thing sways, and that's getting to plant. A big wet one on his mom's lips. Yep. Works every time.

So he is now saying he's going to go help Kristen Cole. It's throads, baby. Did you miss the incest? I wasn't expecting mom's son. I got to tell you. On the black side of things, Dame is killing the shit out of a bunch of Lannisters somewhere in a field.

But he's a builder, not a destroyer. And before you know it, he signed up a new group of fighters to his cause. I have to admit, I don't know who these people are. Can't wait to ask you guys all about it. Somewhere sad, Kristen Cole is exploring his pain through art. Right. When Sir Gwain tells them that they need Aman to show up,

and that they have some serious HR violations happening in camp. But Chris is like sad girls or sad boys for Vita. Your favorite. Elsewhere. And I'm really, I feel like I could use a map. You weren't like Isle of Faces. I got it right away. I did not know this.

All of Hugh and Adam are contemplating what to do with a relatively newfound dragon flying rights and dealing with the appearance of Alice the Witch, who kept Damon Targaryen company when he spent all that time with the trees. last season. Yeah, including dreaming that he was fucking his mom. Oh. Right. Same as it ever was. We've also got Sir Corlis making amends with Alan.

And all of this is kind of a side dish to the massive seafood feast we are about to get for the second half of the episode. Surf and turf. So we're on the water. And on one side we have Thai Lannister, right? Thailand. And Chicago is the Triarchy commander. Yeah. And on the other side, we got Corlis, Allen, and the Reniro Line forces.

It's a battle of the Gullet. That's right. We'd goll it on the morrow. Long promised, huge naval battle. In terms of air support, there's some internecine conflict between Reneira and Jays over who flies, who buys. Jay solves this by locking his queen mother up in her studio apartment. Great move. And he and Bala fly to Corliss's aid.

And Corliss could use it because Loire is tooling him up, honestly. The only thing going against the triarchy is Loher's desire to make Corlis personally pay by burning down your treasure room. They take this duel all the way to the shallow waters. There's some navigational stuff going on. Yes. Make some cool naval maneuvers. And all while Jason Vermax and Bela and Moon Dancer light up the Green Fleet and also some of the Black Fleet. It's not an exact science. Well, we'll leave that to Raina and Sheep Steeler. It gets a little confusing up there. Then in quick succession, but not necessarily in this order, the following things happen. Rainer arrives, shows how not to train your dragon.

because Moon Dancer gives them the term friendly fire a new spin, a new meaning. Jason Vermax get harpooned twice. Corliss gets thrown into the sea and his status is unknown. Alan wrestles with Lohar and stabs the triarchy leader to death, bringing the stage

of the battle of bloody end. And then Jace gets killed when Vermex crashes into the sea and he gets shot with a bunch of arrows. Vermex gets killed too. Yeah, well, I'm sorry, I'm leading with the prince. More importantly, I would say than the air to the throne. Well, Thailand, Lanister.

In the drink, in the kit. I won't go in. My whole plan is to not go into the drink in my kid. I think he's dead. So that would be two Lannisters dead in this one episode. I think he's fine. I'm unsure. We'll see.

We get to the end of this episode. A couple of bodies. Yeah. A lot of turquoise. Some dragons lost. Our dragon lost. But what's the biggest headline? What was your favorite part of this episode, Joe?

I think it's Vermax drowning, oddly enough, because that's the moment. I, like, genuinely, I had trouble connecting with the Battle of the Gullet for some of the logistical reasons that we will talk about. But all of the Vermax stuff, not you, Jace, all the Vermack stuff really worked on me. And mostly it's like a sound design thing. And, you know, I've talked about our pal, Paul Fairfield, who does the dragon noises, but just this sound of Vermax in distress. And then I think I was texting the van about this this morning. I actually think my real connection here is as an elder millennial, I was traumatized by

Artax in the swamps of sadness from the never-ending story. Yeah. And watching Vermax, like, flounder in the water as she goes under is, it was tough. But I have, like, really emotionally connected with it. And that's what I really want from House the Dragon is, like, a real emotional connection to what's going on. What about you, Mel? On a related front, obviously, I'm despondent, hate to lose a dragon always.

I think there are some major book to be. show changes in Gullet that we'll talk about as we go today. But a thing that feels very connected to like a central thesis and mission of the show with what ended up unfolding here with Raina and Sheepstealer is the connection all the way back to the series premiere, this idea of like the hubris of control, right? This thing that Vesaris said to Reneira at the very beginning of the series, the idea that we control dragons is an illusion. And the show has found ways to remind us of that time and time again, Amin and Vagar again. against Luke and ARAX, Rana flying right into battle with a wild dragon that should have never

been claimed. And I think that that thematic text of the Targaryens believing that they are gods because of their dragons, but not actually being in control of the seat of power that they claim to own and command and ride is fascinating. My one beat of that one A would be the introduction of Ormond High Tower with personal popery bubble to mask the stench. I think this is like pretty rude. I didn't even mention an Ormond, yeah.

But really great as a way to introduce us to this character, incredibly entertaining. Yeah, really good. debut performance. Can I give my one B? Yeah. I've come to die for the dragon queen. Your biggest, why is this line not in a trailer note? I was like, why isn't this in the trailer?

Roddy the Ruin, the Starks. It's the Starks, the Winter Wolves. Is yours Brazos? No, my was kissing your mom. Sure. You have brought up incest more times than I think we anticipated. in the first few minutes. I was texting you about incest this morning, this very morning.

Yeah. Because it happens to feature in all three of the shows I'm covering in depth. Is this incest summer? It's Cape Fear. It's the vampire list at and it's House of the Dragon. Yeah. We've seen the Targaryians get up to some funny stuff in the bedroom. And I think that in the absence of Agon or in Agonne in his diminished form, you know,

maybe not as charming as it used to be. I have a lot of Amen stock. And I thought that this scene between Amon and Allison was the most interesting. Because it had some ambiguity. You don't know what he knows, that his mother knows. You don't know whether the kiss is out of sexual desire or throwing around power and being like, you're subservient to me and always. And I think that House the Dragon has had its best to me when it's a little bit more gray area rather than. I have to go over here to do this because otherwise this will happen and I'm telling the truth, you know?

I think it just works better when you have a character whose motivations or desires are a little bit more confusing or hidden. Yeah. And you like when people who are related fuck. You've always been team incest going back to Jamie and Circe. You just don't it. I just think it's a beautiful poetry about the nuance of story aside. You like when people who are related. I have a zag I want to get to about that.

But first I do want to ask you guys. Incredible performance from Chris Ryan so far today. I love this. I do want to ask this. What's wrong with it really? No, it's not what's wrong with it really. It's not wrong, but could it be more right? Is what I'm basically saying.

Okay. You really are team nuance today. I wanted to ask you before we get two in the weeds with the episode. Yeah. The thing I had to get my head around when watching it was it has been two years since the show has been on. This show begins instantaneously as this second season is over. I mean, it's essentially an extension of the action. the second season.

I, as you may have been able to tell from the recap, did not do a tremendous amount of rewatching before we started this up. I was actually very impressed. We didn't get to like, we didn't, by our choice, didn't look at the recap. Yes. And you had all the names right. Yeah, you did. I mean, I really did almost destroy my

dad's car. So, I mean, it really I really could have sold that. You had some personal lore in there? I was curious whether you found it confusing or needed an adjustment period during the episode to be like, okay, yes. And now this is happening, this is happening, this is happening.

I'm asking two of the brightest minds I've ever met, so I'm sure you didn't. Well, I think it's more interesting if, like, did you? Yes. Yeah. Yeah, I was confused. I'm curious how disorienting it's going to be for people who aren't sick in the head like we are. No, you're beating me at a point of like maximum, like, not sure if I have any real estate left in my brain.

But I definitely felt like confused. I honestly forgotten Allison's plan, you know? And so when the first scene of Reneira is Allison came and saw me and she's like at this peace plan and we're going to do it. I was like, what was that? Like, I forgot. Yeah. I sort of admire, I think, that the show made that decision to just pick up immediately and not. I worry a little bit.

It's hard to know, right? Like how it would have gone if we had done a little bit more catch up, I think given the response to the end of season two, which was a lot of the season was really fun. And then we basically ended on a trailer for season three instead of the gullet. And we'll talk more about the gullet that we got at the beginning of season three. I think undeniably, while it was a fun start to the season, it would have been a excellent end to season two. There's just no question, right? There's just kind of like there's no debating that. So I think to just throw us right back in and say there's going to be something a little bit unrelenting.

I hope it's not too unforgiving, right? I hope that people don't find it like inaccessible. Maybe there's a little bit of a period of acclimation. Certainly it has been a really long time. There are a lot of characters. There's a lot of information. My hope, though, is that maybe just the, like, propulsive nature of the story beats and the action, grip people enough that they're willing to hang with it, refresh, maybe check out podcasts such as this one to catch up, not that you should need to listen to podcast to understand what's happening. You should do it because you like being in the world. And then that the action and the melding of action, those big set pieces in a Targary and Civil War, Dragon War, with the story beats, right, the subtler story beats, the interesting conversations in Great Room. in the political drama is like a blend that people are happy to be back with. I will not be

surprised if people are like, this is awesome. We're back. And I will not be surprised if people are like, it's been a long time. I can't really remember what is happening. And it's taking me a little while to get comfortable again. A question we've been asking ourselves as we've been covering the trailers and stuff like that is that does the night of seven kingdoms coming out earlier this year, earlier this year help House of the Dragon in terms of people who had a great time in Westrose and they want to stay in Westrose? Or does it hurt House of the Dragon? Because to, like, to the question, You asked, you know, Night of Seven Kingdoms required so little buy-in, you know, for you to be completely oriented in the world. And it's such like a simple premise for you to sort of sink your teeth into.

And I think even, you know, first of all, they intend to come back next, like next year. Right. And also like the setup of the, yeah, the setup of that show is just sort of like. There's a squire. Yeah. And they're going to have adventures. And the adventures are kind of going to reset every, you know what I mean? And so it's just sort of like this just requires a lot more.

of your investment. And that's what we love. It's, it's sort of what we do, but, you know, for the gen pop, I don't know. It's, uh, I will say this for the, to the show's credit. The tempo was just remarkably improved for me, uh, over the first two seasons. I thought even the domestic scenes, the interior scenes, those people talking in the room scenes that you referred to, we just moved. We moved through them. They spoke more quickly. I thought they had people out in the world doing things in a way that like, Sometimes, like, maybe in previous seasons, there was a degree of, like, a static kind of, like, I'm kind of standing in this one room in King's Landing for a long stretch of the season. I'm in Harrenhol for six episodes. But even, like, your point about the James Norton Hightower introduction, having him have a prop to, like, be like, I, you know, I have highfalutin sort of high-born tastes.

And I don't want to smell shit and piss and all this stuff that comes along with war. They gave him a bit. Give him a bit. We love a bit. I think that I wonder how much of that and like there have been a lot of glowing reviews

of the season for critics. And what I saw again and again was the pace, the pace, the pace, the pace is improved, the pace is improved. And I wonder how much of that has to do with, you know, season one was 10 episodes. Season two is eight episodes and it really felt like they ran on a budget, but like they ran on a road.

You know, the way they pace the season, they just sort of like, they look down and there was air underneath their feet. And they're like, oh, no, we got a tube continued this story. And so, yeah, I wonder if to tell the satisfying arc that they want to tell this season, they're just like, we got to get to it

and we got to keep things rolling. We know what the battles are that are coming. And already they've allieded a couple. So, like, you know, there's going to be economy of characters and economy of battles inside of the stretch of history, I think, to leave some air for really necessary character moments that give us that emotional buy it. Because that's the tradeoff, right?

I think that the critiques of the end of season two, whoa, we didn't get the battles that we were promised. We didn't get Gullet. We didn't like this. Everybody is amassing on Harenhall and on the god's eye and we just sort of watch them all march. You don't want to end up in a place where we're like the end of Game of Thrones where it's flipped completely and it's like only about the style and the flash and the spectacle and it's not about the substance that you've come to love and has gripped you so fully in the characters in the first place. It has to be the balance. You know, they have an end point too,

right? A four season plan now. Knowing that the remaining seasons are going to be eight episodes. hopefully that allows that better pace and feeling and flow and rhythm to continue. This is like a smaller beat in the first episode, but I think maybe emblematic of what we're all identifying. Egan and Laris, there's a version of that in season two where like they are just in the on the Ravens shit throne as Egon so poetically and beautifully puts it for quite a while. It's like three minutes before they're found by the Staunton Man. Laris has a plot in a scheme, a scheme and a plot. The deception that he's working. Just gives up that crown.

On the night of the Seven Kingdom's front, I'm sure everybody watching at home is going to be like, we just need egg to time travel 80 years into the past and be like, here's a tip. Shave your head. If you're trying to remain incognito on the road and you've got this telltale locks. Then badly burn, you've got five remaining hairs on your head. Just shave it. Just shave it. Just say goodbye at that point, you know?

But that just all started happening so quickly, you know? And it was, there were moments of humor in this episode that I, not like, It wasn't a laugh right. But I think that has been an issue that some people have had with House of the Dragon is when you rewatch Game of Thrones and certainly Night of the Seven Kingdoms. When you rewatch Thrones, there's just so much levity in the mix. And it's tough when you're just in the middle of like horrible civil war. But there were moments like Helena really cracked me up in this episode when she's talking to Allison. She's like from the king.

King. Yes. You know, like I thought the Laris Aegon stuff was really funny. Yeah. Ormond was hysterical. Ormond was really good. So, yeah, there's, you know, in terms of, like, keeping the pace going, there is a nice, like, shifted tone to go along with it. Yeah.

Kristen, your guy not laughing much. No laughter in that camp, no. Still pretty dour with your boy. Yeah. But I do enjoy the arts and crafts. I'm excited to talk to you about your thoughts on him going back to his family sigil. I'm excited for the SVU episode that's barely going to unfold at his camp. Yeah.

Paint by number is really having a moment. Do you think Gwayne is eager to get back because he's like, I can't get my Botox treatments out of the row? I got to get back. To the castle. And in a similar way that the show itself is kind of trying to serve a bunch of different masters where it's like there are people who know all this stuff. We're trying to illustrate it for them. There are people who are just casual television watchers.

It's been two years. We have to catch them up. I thought that the Battle of the Gullet was interesting because this is something that Thrones heads are probably like, cool. One of the pivotal moments in Westro's history is about to play out in front of me. But on the other hand, you need to. situate everybody into like what the hell is happening? Why is everybody so mad? They've all got boats. I thought that the, I was kind of like impressed that Condole and company decided to just

be like, we're throwing you in literally in the deep end of the ocean. And you got to catch up. You got to catch up with like all these maneuvers, what might be important to Corlis, what's important to the triarchy. What did you guys think of the execution of the Gallet? I am pretty mixed on it. I think they did everything that they could and had to do. I think a problem they're going to, a challenge they're going to have the season is in this stretch of the book, there are so many battles with characters we've never heard of. You know, so in this episode they put Damon inside of a battle to get us invested in that battle. Otherwise, like, who do we care about who's there, et cetera?

So obviously we theoretically care about Corliss and Alan and Bela and Jace. But Jase I'm like irritated with at this point, though, you know, due to some adaptive changes. You got your way. You know? And so then it's just like kind of really coreless. And it's also challenging, you know, they did a great job with Rook's Rest, but it's also challenging to get us emotionally invested in Dragon Battle when you've got these little, you know, people on the backs of these giant CGI effects. It's really hard. It's hard to, like, connect.

I was watching it, believe it or not, pretty attentively. And I found myself confused as to who was on which dragon and which dragon was doing what thing at various moments. So, I mean, the battle was like... This is your signature corner. Yeah. The battle was like, oh, come on. You know what I mean, though, right? Yeah, the battle was like 24 minutes of this episode thereabouts.

I liked everything else in the episode more than I liked the battle. But also, that's pretty standard for me. I'm not like the big like battle episode person in general. It's fucking hard to make naval battles on film. Oh, sure. Like it's the reason why people look at Master Commander and they're like, that's one of the best action and venture movies of all time. A shared fave.

Is because you can tell where the boat is in relation to the other boat all the time. And you kind of have a sense, even with all the naval jargon that they're throwing around of what they're trying to achieve. Well, that's two boats. So you really have and like, and maybe like a fake boat. But there's a lot of red shirt boats out there on the sea. What did you make of it? So I think especially because we had this two-year gap of anticipation,

anticipation for us, the fans, the viewers, but also then of like the machine that makes House of the Dragon talking up the episode and saying that this was going to be really worth the weight in this great thing, which like in general I would say is not an advisable strategy. Just like let the thing be great. That's an own goal entirely, yeah. Sports Joe. Sports Joe!

World Cup Joe is out. Man, World Cup Joe is all in one lately. I love it. So there's just kind of that in general. I think that the Battle of the Gullet had more Loher and Tylin Lannister in it as central figures, kind of to your point about just which characters is it rooted around, than I would have anticipated. I think part of that is because there is a major adaptive change here in the participants.

That said, the Dragon stuff did really work for me. I obviously have just a different relationship to the, like, I think magical creatures aspect of the story. So that part of it, the bond between the rider and the dragons, the fact that the adaptive change, while it took some characters who normally would have been there putting more people into the mix, Ulf should have been there.

Hugh should have been there. Nettles is now officially, we can say definitively, out of the show. Raina has Nettles as dragon. That's definitive. That's no longer something we need to speculate on. So that's just a different set. They made it more of a family affair, right? We have two sisters, Raina and Bela, and then we have Jace, who is, of course, betrothed to Bela.

They're all related, right? Okay. So we could talk. And related to Coralus and Alan who are down the boat. So the family fair thing, I think in real time when we saw Ulf Adam and Hugh on the Isla faces, I was like, whoa. What's happening here and why? I think we'll go way longer on that on the deep dive and some of the, like, ripple effects of that and implications. Is that genuinely insane that it?

happened though. There's a lot to talk about there. I'm actually fascinated. I don't want to spoil this stuff or talk about it too deeply on this show, but I cannot wait to listen to the deep dive because it's also just not a text like the other Game of Thrones texts are. So it's like it is open to interpretation. I'm so sorry. Can I just like do a quick like Isla Faces pause? Just say real quickly, imagine that there was like a book series you loved and there's a place that the book series never went. And canonically, only two characters in all of the history of known characters ever went there. And the story did not go there with them. So it's this magical island on the gods eye, which is the lake right by Heron Hall. It's called the Isle of Faces.

And a bunch of magical stuff is theoretically there. Yeah. But see a green man again? Especially after the dragons die, you cannot get to that island because like you try to get there on a boat and you just can't make it. It's just this like heart. And then they just like, it's like Widows Bay. Yeah, exactly. You got to be in a certain bearing to get to the Lost Island. And so it's just this like impenetrable, magical place. And they're like, what if we had Ulf take a shit there?

Like, it's just a, oh, an insane thing to do. Again, the Night of Seven Kingdoms effect, I think, undeniable. And the need, let's just not, let's not just have them take a shit, but add the fart sounds in for added. On the Isle of Faces, it is a, is a wild. I think it's kind of like cool that they did that, but also I'm, I'm really interesting. You're curious about how it's going to ripple out. Yeah, we'll talk about that both in the deep dive, but also in the spoiler section,

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please contact Connects Ontario at 1-866-531-2-600 to speak to an advisor, free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming Ontario. But, you know, so Jay sees Raina, right definitively. He's like, Raina! Raina sees Baila. Do Bayla see Raina? No.

How many other people saw Raina? Here's the thing. It kind of doesn't matter because what they did see is a dragon come in and attack the other dragons and burn the Valerian fleet. So Raina leaves this. Raina has spent her life to this point desperate for a dragon. Like, maybe this is a thing that's actually worth a quick refresher on for people. Raina did not have a dragon.

Well, Amon took her dragon, right? Well, that was not her dragon. It was a dragon. She could have chosen to claim. It was her mother's dragon. She could have tried, but Amon beat her to it. Amon's a great comp, right? Because when Amon was a kid, we saw that desperation, that loneliness, feeling like you were on the outside of the family defined by this thing that you didn't have access to.

We saw that with Raina, too. Remember when they were in Pento? And she's like, am I going to get to stay? Because I don't have a dragon, right? And her mother's like, sweetling, like, sweetling, like, Some of them don't hatch. Like, some people have a harder road. Yes.

So for her mother, that road was claiming Daegar. For Amund, that road was claiming Vagar. For Raina, we heard last season that Raina had tried to claim sheepsteel. Or, excuse me, sea smoke and almost died in the attempt, right? She didn't just claim sheepstealer. She claimed a wild dragon. This is not a dragon who's had a rider. And sheepstealer has been around since, like, Jeharis, the first youth.

This is an old dragon who's never had a rider because he's wild. Farrell, wild, right? It's a crazy thing to attempt. Reckless from the start before she even decides to just immediately join the battle. A hot take. Maybe Raina shouldn't have a dragon. And maybe it's there was a reason. To your point about like the gray, Chris and how satisfying it is to watch, I think you have the pull of like, of course you would want this desperately.

Of course it would be this thing you need. Of course you would finally fly back to Dragonstone. Loved seeing Sheep Steeler throw Raina some meat after like the flight, right? That was great. Fly back to Dragonstone. You see the smoke and you're like, we have to go help immediately. Raina wants to help. Like the impulse is right, but it is so reckless.

Is it, is it Raina and Sheepstiller's fault that Jace is dead? No, it's Jace's fault. Because Jace had, but kind of. But kind of. It's all in the mix, right? Jase also has his like, I am resenting being sidelined and told I have to stay safe. Look what I did. I brought the veil into the fold.

I brought the north into the fold. I secured the crossing so that the winter wolves who we see arrive could come. Where's my respect? He has no battle experience and he flies a fucking foot above the water. And his dragons killed and so was he. I thought it was a cool moment. So that stuff in the battle I loved. That could have been interrogated a little bit more.

In Jase's argument with his mother, he's just like, you're not, you have to protect yourself because if you go down, this whole thing collapses. Right. Like the entire premise of what we're doing is based on you being queen. But do you, how much of that is real and how much of it is his excuse for his own? Well, I only use that scene as a point to say. I mean, it's both. Raina didn't have that same chance to express the interiority of what was happening to her. She's just a lot of screaming.

Yeah, it's a lot of screaming. So I think in a way, for like a casual viewer, you might be watching this and be like, I think I remember that she was trying to train a dragon or trying to get a dragon. But I don't know how does she know where all the action is happening and how does she know that she's needed? She was just flying home to Dragonstone. She was just trying flying back to Dragonstone and then she sees the battle. Yeah. My favorite like, hey, remember line in this episode is when she goes, that's my sister. You know, like in case you guys didn't know, that's my sister, Bela.

Shout out Bala on Moon Dancer. Bala who actually has done some like battle tactic stuff in her past. She's saving, saves Vermax and Jace. And like, for those us watching the battle who know that, and it's a much more truncated, obviously, situation in the book. A key thing that's missing is that Jace's two younger brothers are specifically. supposed to be on one of the ships and in danger. So Jay's whole motivation is a little less like, I can do this mom and you can and locking

Reneira in a room, which he doesn't do in the books, and more like, I got to go save my brothers. So it's much more like Rob Stark of him, you know, inside of the books. And so they change. Are there not brothers on this one? No, they are. And actually, it's a good shout-out because remember, Raina was supposed to be with them protecting him.

Oh, yeah. So she decided to go, when she saw like the dragon footprint, the burnt footprint, she stayed in the veil to try to claim sheepstealer instead of going to protect Egon and Vassaris as she had begrudgingly, right? She didn't like that we're near a set of his task. She didn't want to be there. She didn't think it was fair. But like, it was the pledge that they agreed to ultimately. We were wondering what they were going to do with those brothers this whole time because they were just way younger in the show and there was no way that the various things that they do in the battle could have happened with those toddlers. So Jace is there just to prove himself in a battle way,

which is like a much less sort of altruistic admirable thing. It just looks reckless and stupid. But for those of us who know, who are watching and know that he and Vermax are not going to make it out of this alive, the first time he flies low and they hit him with the scorpion, you're like, oh, no, this is it. And then Moon Dancer saves him. And so that's just like a real fake out for bookreaders moment. I mean, you know he's going to go down anyway. Who's the guy from Thrones who's from Iceland who is with Circe and he's really evil? You're on.

Did it give you a Uron shooting Regal PTSD? No, I thought Yeah. Invented the scorpion? So when everybody is like... Bigger crossbow. Yeah. The Grapnel's here.

And this is interesting because I think like that the first one that Lohar fires, it kind of gets the like harness. And so this idea, you're really primed. I thought in a very effectively dramatic way for the fact that,

okay, it actually didn't even pierce the scales, but like the risk is real and does Jace know? Is Jace ready? Like that's another change that, like you said that Bala is here in the first place, but you're right, the season, the fact that Kristen and Gawain were

shitting their pants when Baila was flying overhead in season two were like, okay, bail is ready. She's been on patrol. Yeah, exactly. And part of that there was that kind of unsavory aspect to that in season two of like Reneira being willing to risk Bala but not Jase. This is, I think, an interesting aspect of the Jace Reneera storyline is that there's like a parallelism at play.

They both resent the fact that people want to keep them safe. And they both have like reasons that that's legitimate, but they done it to each other. Like Rineer would have locked Jason in his. room if she had the opportunity. Remember Jace's reaction when Reneer at the end of season two took Adam to Heron Hall? He's like, you're not taking me to Heron Hall with you? Right? He wants to be out on the front lines and he thinks he's on it. But he's never fought in a battle and he's not going to make it out of this first one alive. I mean, that extra beat in his death, because it's so, I agree with you on the sound treatment, the shrieks and the blood pouring out of the wound from the second hit that does break through. And the way the anchor and the weight and Vermax's own attempt to rise is like working against him. It's. so sad. Moon Dancer almost almost gets there to save again. And the triarchy has faced dragons

and this is another interesting family tie like they thought Kerak season C-Smoke at the stepstones, your fave. You know, Damon's showdown. Yeah, Damon and Corley's and they're like, that's right,

you got a crab feeder. The fact that they're like a little more prepared there's a line in the book that's like they're prepared until five come and then no one's prepared for that. Well, because Kristen is like freaks out when he sees one or has basically PTSD Yeah, and the triarchy is like, we've got to scrapnel tech ready.

Like, we kind of know what we want to do. They were prepared for this possibility at least, which is interesting. I was thinking about that, though, because it is, it says a scorpion in the book, and they do make such a big deal of it in Thrones where it's just sort of like, we're reviving this ancient tech. And I'm like, not that ancient, you know. They used it in the gullet. So, yeah.

Anything else from the gullet that you wanted to hit before we move on? Because obviously there's the corallus, uh, Rojahar and Alan beef which was admittedly like new to me I was like I didn't remember that this was like a long-standing like problem um but I did like the fact that naval tactics mixed with personal grievances produced some very interesting stuff yeah um and I thought that all that stuff with the shallows was really cool I agree and the and the battering ram maneuver was really neat. But that was like ultimately, I think it was like a satisfying fight and satisfying conclusion to that plot line. But I can't say that that was at top of mind

what I was going to see the first episode of the season. I think they've been struggling with Alan. I don't know that I want to feel more connected to that character than I do. I feel really connected to Adam. But even though they gave Alan that scene with Courtless in this episode and they've been giving him, you know, but it's all kind of the same.

I was thinking about our guy at Bride Engelsby. and Task in Mary of East Town and how he likes to talk about, you know, these scenes that he likes to put in his shows where it's just like people doing nothing and just talking to each other. And it's a way for you to really like just sink into those characters and who they are.

And for Alan, I feel like his entire purpose on the show has just been, I'm his bastard. You know, it's just like a one plotline kind of person and he doesn't have any friends. And, you know, he just doesn't have, he has a brother that he like his kind of, you know, but it's just been like, here's the broad strokes of who this guy is, but not any of the depth of who this guy is.

And so I just, like, want to be sort of sunk into him and be worried about him. And I just didn't feel that connection in the way I wanted to. I thought it was interesting in there. Let's share a drink. I don't really want to share a drink. While I'm not going to drink alone conversation that there was actually what felt to me like a slight, like a slight updating of the canon, this like, well, I tried to provide a life for you. Yeah, you tried to provide a life, but not a name.

I'm like, wait a minute. You're like, we're screaming at him. in the end of season two about how you didn't have money for bread. That, I think, kind of is connected to what you're saying of maybe the show feels like they need to give us a little bit more like heart there because like... But like too little too late. Yeah, I thought seeing Alan kick ass was fun. It was really fun.

And certainly in the moment, there were like some subtler beats before the big like father when Corliss goes into the water. You're like, okay, something is changing, right? But I thought there were subtler moments before that were just the fact that Corliss is like, I'm going to risk myself to attempt to like enact this maneuver that I know this, this person who hates me will follow. I know Lo Har will follow. And I thought Alan looked at him and was like, okay.

Like, interesting. So there were some subtle things there. I thought the most interesting maybe character beat though was just that Lo Har was right about Corliss getting distracted by high tide burning and that, you know, that felt satisfying and interesting because when he renames his ship from Seasnake to the queen who never was, can't get through the pod without saying the tits on the Rene's figurehead on the mast of the ship now bearing her name.

Do you think one of the first things I texted you guys about? Do you think Alan oversaw the construction of those? Again, it's a family affair. It's on Game of Thrones here. The, you know, the big speech about the ship was like, that was a monument to my glory. And now it's about other things. But Loire is like, if he sees that trophy room burning,

that treasure room burning, like it's going to fuck him up and it did. High tied his ashes now. Yeah. Yeah, this is like, you know, the like history doesn't remember blood. It remembers names. You know, the big speech to Damon to go to the stepstones in the first place was about like, you know, for us, it's like it's made. We got to make it.

And so like to forge that legacy and do all these things and then be really on moored by seeing it up in ashes. What's the word? Nice notical turn from there. I ended this episode, admittedly probably informed a little bit by some of the reviews I've read, some of the interviews I've read surrounding the, you know, production of the episode and the reviews of the season and so forth. And I think the thing that they're trying to get across is that this season, but especially this battle, is about like, you know, the folly of war and there are no winners and the destruction it reeks. And I did come out of it. I wonder whether some people will be watching and be like, so who won?

Right? Like you get to the end of the episode and you're like, I think this was like kind of like a really bad, bloody tie. I think that's the point, though, is to have that feeling. Yeah. Did you think that the point was communicated? Yes, I did. I think that the final shot... I think the fact that I don't know means, I guess it was.

Because I'm like, I don't really know like how I'm supposed to feel about this. You could have ended just on Jace's death, right? You could have ended on the... Okay, I had to unhook and I reached for that plank of wood and like, boy, I'm really going to mourn my dragon. But like, we'll find a way through. We'll learn some things. I'll say, Mom, sorry I did the thing to you that like people have been doing for you to your entire life, telling you to sit on the sidelines. Then he gets shot with three arrows and immediately died.

They died. Very tough. They don't know. Ravstarved face. Mooda. The exact Robstar face. We don't end on that. What we end on is the fractured flagship.

And then the overhead shot of Bela and Moon Dancer because sheepsteel and Rainer, Raina have peeled off. And you know Raina's like, fuck, that did not go well and that's going to be a problem, right? Jason Kermak's dead. And it's Raina and Bela flying over devastation, right? Everywhere you look. So, like, is Loher dead?

Yeah. Is the Triarchy in Shambles? Yeah. Like, that's true. But is Team Black going to feel like they won when they took that much damage and the heir to the throne? The crown prince, DeSaris is dead and his dragon is dead? How can you feel good about that outcome? There's this point in the book where they're like, the Valerian fleet lost a third of its ships, tough.

Thousands died. They're like, but nothing was more important. The fact that little Prince Jace was lost at sea. You know, again, who writes the histories? I think on the Jace front, too, like, his insecurity about being a bastard obviously fuels this too, right? because he's always felt that sense that he has to prove himself more than other people. So I do think he wants to keep his mother safe.

Like that's true. I should start using the past tense. He wanted to keep his mother safe. That was true. We aren't sure. We didn't see a body. He was down. He was like gray.

Yeah, the blood left him with the quickness, I think. And, you know, like, Reneera, this is her, the, we were texting the three of us about, like, the shatter. An instrument of war in her hands of what is she doing with it, tearing a garment. because she's not able to leave her own apartments. Your Queen's Guard taking the bros command over yours? And like, imagine you can't overstate how nuts this is. Imagine fighting the Patriarchy your whole life just to raise a member of the Patriarch.

It's so tough. It's so tough. Champion of the looks maxers everywhere with that jawline, incredible stuff, you know? Let's talk a little bit about some of the quieter moments. I do want to talk a little bit about incest. Incents. I want to talk a little bit about Allison and Amund. Is this canon? The kiss?

Yeah. No. No. But I think Amon being very pro incest is canon, right? For sure. Like he, and in the show and in the books, like he has a mature woman. Exactly. He's got mommy issues and he's pro incest.

So we. Those powers combined. We had some memorable experiences on this very show, Talk to Thrones, when Amid thought Sylvie and then drank mother's milk. Yeah. He has, like, fetch me some more milk. had a complicated relationship with his mother for some time. So this did not surprise me that this happened at all.

He also was, like, to Egon earlier on the show, treat your future queen with respect when, you know, Egan would make fun of Helena, like, counting bugs and stuff. And you'd be like, well, you marry if you want to. And Eamon was like, I would be delighted to. I would love to. And he also, like, he also approached Helena last season. That's right. Fly with an animal.

So he's, like, been wanting to keep it in the family for a while now and enjoys a mature woman. And so if, if that, if that, if that. If both of those things are offered at home, why not go for it? Would that be controversial? Well, for Allison, I mean, it's never going to happen. Like she, remember her Reneira, the Reneera fight? When they were the younger cast, the beginning of season three, and she's like, you Targaryens and your queer customs.

Then she had to marry two of her children to each other, right? And then, Laris' footstuff, that's not incest, but it is a sexual. I was going to ask you, what do you think is worse, showing Laris strong your feet or kissing your son? I think that her face is, just, how is this my life? I don't know. That foot stuff was tough. Olivia Cook, fantastic in that kissing scene, but also the scene leading up to it or she comes into the room and is sort of like, this is all my fault. Actually, it's not. But, you know, I'm going to say that.

She's manipulating them. Yeah, she's manipulating. Oh, everything she says is a lie. And I love, so this is an adaptive change. This idea that, like, Alicent is working behind the scenes at King's Landing on Reneer's behalf because she's so tired of war. And so it gives Allison this really active, like, scheming, manipulating thing to do. She's writing letters and pretending they're from. sneaking it out of the palace, yeah, just like sneaking out of the palace, manipulating Amand, lying to the guards, and scheming. And I just, I love that. And, you know, it goes back to watching your right scrolls made me think of her father, of course. But, like, just goes back to, like, what the high towers did in the first place to get into power. So to give Allison this more active role gives Olivia Cook a lot of fun things to play with. And I just really like this as an adaptive choice. I really agree. And I think it still remains the best example of the kind of adaptive choice that the show can make where it's like the competing narratives in fire and blood, the fact that there are different versions of history, that's just an interesting commentary in general. But the fact that like the history for these two women would have been the thing that the men didn't like commit to the page or understand in full is like such a rich vein to continue to tap. I, the boldness on display from Allison here was amazing to see. Like again, you could definitely say reckless, hubris, but I like love it and admire it and I'm so

invested in watching what the two of them do at this point. And, you know, you have the people, you have the council that, you know, Reneer's like, I'm really just fucking done with these guys at this point. Like, why would you, you trust her, but you have Allison, who's, is, you mean those two motherfuckers who heard her screaming in her room and we're like, huh? Well, they're used to it, right? They're like, we started to plot of war with Damon when she was like screaming in childbirth upstairs. Like, plenty of, plenty of whales. Did she pop up another kid? How does that work? I don't know that we ignore. Yeah. But, like, the fact that Allison comes back and is like, okay, the pledge centered on, Amon and Vagar will be gone, and Agon will be here, and neither of those things are true.

It's so easy to just say, it's over. It's done. But she doesn't do that. She doesn't accept her fate, which is real, real meaningful, like character progression, real character on an arc stuff for Allison. She's done with Big Back Tub. It's cool, though. That was so good when she was like, I was in the Kingswood, Amens. Like, you know how much I love to just, like, float in water.

I love that. She's like, it doesn't seem like you really need me here anymore. Yeah. But that was, I love that because, like, he was such a fucking. fucking dick to her in, was that episode six maybe of season two after he was regent? He's like, thanks for all your help. When we needed you, we don't need you anymore. Right. And like, for her to know that he would know that that was a real wound for her and then use it to her advantage is brilliant. Like the cupping of the face, all of it. Yeah. I think that if I had a thing I would,

my big takeaway from this episode wound up being like that if you go back and watch a couple of those scenes. Maybe in past seasons, you get a little bit more of a flashing sign that says this is important or like keep an eye on this. And I don't think there was as much handholding in this episode, probably to its benefit, Allison being a sort of secret agent and trying to manipulate Amon being number one. Amon, perhaps knowing that, but still kind of being like, if you kiss me, I'll go fly and help your guy. The other one that I thought was interesting was the whole, what was named the island that they're on? Isla Faces. Aliface's situation

where first pass I kind of was like oh this is almost like comic relief because these are like common folk talking about how crazy the situation is even though these guys are now Dragon Riders

but I think it's important to note the division among those three and also the multiplicity of viewpoints that they express you know and

I think that this show is going to have to balance saying hey now these guys who ride nuclear weapons also have opinions about how things go. Yeah, be careful who you give a dragon to. But I think that, like, Team Green and Team Black have always had divisions inside of them. But I think these are much more interesting divisions. Like, I'm just over watching Rainier and Damon Fight.

I just think we've seen it so many times. And that was like the main fracture inside of Team Black. And it's like watching Jayce throw his mom into her room and watching, yeah, those three dragon riders, brand new dragon riders, watching Raina, who is this. In theory, Team Black, fuck it all up for them at the Gullet. You know, like, all of these blunders and interfighting is just a great, just a great texturizing. Yeah.

And on that texture, they all have different reasons. Raina, like, does it go well know? Is it kind of like a right reasons thing? Yeah. Oof is, like, really, he's an unapologetic striver. Like, it's naked. It's clear to anyone who's paying an ounce of attention. You know, more of those little birds, right, at the bank.

I thought his whole thing is like, why do I need like a title? Oh my God, I can't, yeah, I can't live in a title, I can't drink it, right? Real, um. But don't you think you get more women over the castle? That was incredible. Good, good follow-up point from you there. The real, like, shades of, um, hot pie, like, thinking that just having armor made you a knight. I also was thinking of Melisandra and Gendry with, like, the King's Blood.

That was an interesting bit of old fact story with the Red, Varus as well, for sure. Abusive priests, yeah. Yeah. But, like, you know, sometimes the thing you learn about the characters in the adaptation is that they have more of an active hand. And sometimes you learn that there's more of like a tragic emptiness or a void there. Like the account for Amon going to deciding I'm going to go to Harenhal in the book is Septuyn Eustis tells us that the kin slayer, right? Amon 1-I, Kinslayer, was determined that this should be his victory. He had no wish to share the glories with the glory with his brothers nor any other man. We saw him to your point, beg Helena to

fly with him at the end of last season. And she was like, I've got to issue a very spooky prophecy instead and tell you to fuck off. right? She's like, I'm more than bugs. Thank you very much. Are there bugs there? I don't know. And then his mother, like, manipulating him. I was waiting for him to be like, why are you trying to convince me that Haran Hall is safe? I literally have a mural in my bedroom of Ballarian the Black Dread roasting hair in the black alive. That was weird.

But, like, that's sad that Amon is so alone seeing him, we talked about this with the trailers. The tragedy of Amon, yeah. The demon comp of him just like, like waiting on the throne alone in an empty room to try to feel big and strong. And Alice is knowing that that's the thing, the button to push. Also, holding his dad's sword. The big thing on the ally face is that I probably need a little help with was Alice.

Yeah, she's a witch. And his favorite. Admittedly, I think, glazed over a little bit during, I thought Alice, the character was very interesting. I don't remember exactly what she was doing or talking to Damon about. A lot of dream interpretation. Yeah. A lot of vision questing. When she shows up and is like, oh yeah, you guys should really, you guys should really get involved.

It's pretty bad. Where is she coming from? What is it? I mean, it's hard to know with Alice, but my interpretation is that, I mean, she's telling the truth. They could use her at the Battle of the Gullet. I can't think of another other than like, what the fuck are you doing on the Isle of Faces? Get out of here. But, you know, she has been helping Damon.

So I think she's helping the team black cause at this point would be my theory. I think that feels right and also entwined with that, get out of my home and don't make Dragon War here. Right? Yeah. So like she can achieve both of those things in tandem. You know, some of the stuff that she was saying to Damon last season about like, it's all like, like, we're going to be the ones who suffer, right?

And that's a throughline other character. You know, that's something that Aeman heard from Sylvie, right? Like it's like the common folk like me, the small folk like me who suffer. Alice is the magic around Alice obviously is like really compelling and wonderful. I think the exact total ability to understand her agenda is like kind of an open thing for us to discover in real time

which is something I'm really I think there's also somewhat is the performance who's the actress who plays her Gal Rankin. Gal Rankin gives it an air of I'm not sure if I totally if this is 100% like she's so good but it's like you're like

you're on the back foot I'm on the back foot a little bit Is she about to drug me? Yeah. And will I like it if she does? And will I dream of fucking my mom? A couple of the things. What's Damon doing? Damon is...

What he's supposed to? Honestly, what he's supposed to. Okay. He told Ranira that he like won the Riverlands for her and to a certain degree he did. And he's leading the Riverland charges against the Lannisters and the Westerners and the Westerners. And doing a really great job. We saw when when that's Jason Lannister.

head we see. Thailand's twin. Yeah. But when we saw... They lingered on it for long enough that I was like, I imagine this is somebody important. Yeah. But when we saw him on the march, he had a lion and we were really excited and hoping that he would get eaten by his own lion. Instead, we watched them butchering the lion on the battlefield.

That was tough. This is a kind of a blend of two different battles here, the Battle of the Red Fork and the fish feed. But what's important, I really love the scene when when Damon's like, it's better. if my dragon burns the bodies. And then the guy was like, we have our own class. We have to go back to mud. I thought that was like such a cool.

Well, it's just always great when they remind you on this show that there are. Regional customs. Dozens of shows that could be done. For sure. Yeah. Because we get a lot of Targaryens in our Game of Thrones, but that there are other ways of doing things

and that these people are like, this is a marriage of convenience. I don't necessarily find your way of doing things the most pleasant. And like Oscar put Damon in his place in front of everyone last. season. And so just even to your point of like Damon kind of for once doing what he's supposed to do, you could see how painful it was for him to bite his tongue there. But like he did. He was like, fine. Do it your way because like that's how an alliance works. And I actually need to be the mature

adult, like seasoned expert speaking warrior that I am of season experts. Like the winter wolves being here. The northern forces, the Stark's. Secured by Jace. Let's just give him his flowers once more. The Pact of Ice and Fire. Jace and Craig and Stark, here are my great beards. I will send them down to you. On the ocean. Yeah. Jace got the north to come join the fight. So now Damon, who got everyone to bend the knee to Reneera in the Riverlands also now has Northerners on the bed. Yeah. So we are all converging on God's eye is what I imagine. And Kristen Cole's over here. Kristen Cole, sad boy painting in his tent missed the battle. I just loved the painting. I thought that was such a, this is like the your opening question of kind of is too much going on. Is there too much? Like, where are people going to be? This is like the other side of it. A character, a tiny little detail where you're like, I've spent now four seasons of this show. It's going to take nearly a decade to make all I've spent a decade. You know, thinking about these characters by the end. Will they all make it to the end? No.

We're on our third season with Kristen. He's been here since the beginning. And he came in with that sigil. And then he became a knight of the king's guard. And he became Lord Commander. and he became Hand to the King. And many times, in a very morally compromised fashion, he would try to gaslight other people into thinking that the sanctity and purity of the white cloak was the only thing that mattered, right? And he lived his life through the lens of that symbol and what it meant.

And now he's like, I've seen Dragon War and I have to like connect back to what it means to be a mortal man again. He's 100% of my favorite character. It's the best character on the show. And we got that in just watching him do arts and crafts for 30 seconds. Can I just say? I think you're right.

He's great. I was so out on Chris, but Kristen Cole is a character on an arc. And now he's sort of becoming a very rich person that I'm really interested in. He's the person also who is the most articulate about the fact that how the viewer is supposed to feel, which is this kind of warfare is not sustainable. It's not survivable. If people are getting incinerated and dragons are falling from the sky and, you know, all this stuff is happening, then there really is no point in marching here and marching there. it's like we're just waiting for our number to get called. Well, and I just want to say in defense of Allison, not that she needs my defense, but like,

that's why she's so hell bent on ending the war. She's just sort of like, I didn't oops. We're doing Oppenheimer here. I did a coup. Can we walk this back into like, how can I? And I will throw my own sons. Yeah. They're always used the same names.

It's tough. But I will throw my own shitty sons under the bus if it means that we can stop all of this. And please. protect my daughter. She's the only day I care about. Here's the selfish part. I really just want. I want to go. I want my daughter to go. I want my granddaughter to go. There are big bathtubs all over the world. So many lakes. So many bodies of water. Yeah, Chris. Like, Kristen, you know, last season he's like to die would like be kind of a relief, wouldn't it? You know? Like, what chance do any of us have? Yeah. And the other thing about that, using the Cole's sigil again, like, and actually particularly

satisfying with Gawain there, because Gawain was one who showed up and who was like, you like took, you're the hand of the king and it was supposed to show up and it was going to be my dad, right? And like the number of withering things that Gawain said to him to remind him of his station where he came from the Gideying Ascent Line in season two. And Kristen, like, used to be ashamed of that. And now he's like, what do I have other than this one thing that I can do with my own hands? I mean, the whole, like, their whole exchange where he's just like, you got to do something about this guy who ravaged a village girl. You do it. And he's just like, hang him if you want. Like, I don't care. You know, like, what difference is in? He's in a Beckett play at this point.

Yeah, exactly. It's really, really good. Did you, what did you think of Ormond? Did you like the, Ormond High Tower introduction? Did you like the bold John Roxton introduction? You know. Did you like the introduction of the mystery lads standing next to Ormond Hightower calling him cider? With red hair and the green hair? I'm going to do this for you. It's like late in the summer and a team calls up a pitcher at a AAA. Yep. And then when like you go to the game or you're watching it and you're just like,

holy shit, this guy's stuff is electric. Yeah, he's throwing 105. And James Norton is down. Like James Norton having a good time playing. a prick, like walking out of that camp like that. I was like, the show needed this. We needed like a change of speed here. And so I'm very excited for him. One king is as good as another is an just like astonishing thing to say out loud. Right next to him being so disgusted by some mud on this little message. Could have been feces. Could have been feces. I will say. You don't know for sure. That guy was like told to ride really quickly. To ride with the quickness. And you think he wiped his ass with Maybe he was just, like, shitting in his pants as he was writing and then, like, stuff gets everywhere.

I don't know. I was trying to scroll. It was kind of fuzzy. We'll have to watch again. Like, what is the note say? I thought the word abdicated was in there. So then when Roxon is like, oh, the king's dead and he's like, one king's as good as another. I'm like, is he allowing this?

It reminded me of the needle plate in Widows Bay. Yeah. I can't read any of that. Yeah, yeah. Tennessee Williams. Two new Valerian steel swords in this scene, Chris. That's true. know that's exciting for you.

Vigilance for Ormond, House High Tower, and Bull John Roxton. John Rockston is played by the actor who plays Brasso and Orr. I recognize it. I know you did, but he's got a blurry steel store. Good for him. We saw Tessarian, you know, the Blue Queen,

the dragon, no rider on Tessarian. Where did we see Tersering? As the messenger is coming in at the camp, she's like in the foreground of the... She's in a pen. Yeah, yeah, foreground of the scene there. It's weird. Make him just pen dragons up?

Well, I mean, there's a lot of... Like, Arther Panorian? Oh, this is a good way to end. Just give me a sense. How many dragons we got now? Let's do Dragon Math. Team Green has... Theran.

Deserian. Vagar. Dreamfire. But Helena won't ride Dreamfire. So really just... Vagar and Tesarian. Yeah, Jihara's got like an egg, but that's not really useful at this point. Team Black has.

Carrax. Carrax. Not Vermax. Correct. Moon Dancer and Sheepstier. Sea Smokes. Sheepstealer. Well, I don't know if they can count sheepstealer if sheepstealer's not going to listen.

Vermeather. Silver wings? Taraxi's up with Joffrey still, right? A little dragon, but, you know, they'll grow. Okay. And on the even littler dragon front, StormCloud. So Team Black is loaded. Gotcha.

And Team Green has basically two, but, but, and this is the World Cup illusion that I sent to you early as week, Beghar is the baddest asses of all the dragon. He's Mbapé. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. All right. Okay.

I think that's a good place to end because anything else would probably be getting into asking you guys questions that you probably couldn't answer without spoiling. Do you hope to see the triarchy again? I'm really done with them, honestly. I don't know what their political ideology is. I don't know what they hope to get out of all of this. I'm going to read you a quote and it's going to put your mind at rest. The triarchy after this, they leave. There's a lot of, okay, they've lost a lot of ships, a lot of sailors, as Joe said. Three cities turned against each other in the daughter's war, but that is outside the scope of this tale. Great.

safe any. Two years, two years later. That is outside of his scope of the tail. Save it for when Tony Gilroy makes Andor but about the triergy. I would watch. That would be great. Thanks so much for joining us.

We'll be back next Sunday with episode two. Joe and Mal. We'll be hitting House of the Dragon deep dive. Yeah, Tuesday night. Tuesday night, House of R. Yeah, what's the plan over on the watch, buddy? We're really busy. We got a lot of stuff going on.

I think we will be talking about House of the Dragon, but I'm not betting the farm that Andy is going to love it. Let's just put it that way. You don't think he's going to emerge on Mike and say, I've come to die for the dragon queen. That's not what you're into. If that happens, I'm going to pod for the dragon queen.

I'll do this all again on Monday with Andy. Thanks for joining us. We'll be back next Sunday.