House of R - ‘Lanterns’ Episode 2 Deep Dive

Episode Date: August 24, 2026

Mal and Jo are back to dive deep into the second episode of ‘Lanterns,’ “Trust Fall.” They talk about everything from Hal’s detective work to our first look at Sinestro! (00:00) Intro(08:15) Opening Snapshot(22:58) 2016(32:06) Cold open(46:30) Hal works the case(53:14) A very harried Sheriff Kerry(01:01:57) Of corpses and mansions and super suits(01:17:58) Hello, Earl!(01:20:05) John (and his bird) get Lantern-napped(01:23:29) Kerry and Hal team up(01:32:41) Of Manhunters and Red Lanterns???(01:40:33) Sheriff Kerry’s very wary(01:48:24) Trust is running very thin in Rushville, Nebraska(01:57:28) Enter Sinestro(02:02:08) Rapid-fire Theory and Comic Spoilers Corner Hosts: Joanna Robinson and Mallory RubinProducer: Carlos ChiribogaProduction Assistant: Scott LeeStudio Production: Jacob CornettSocial: Jomi AdeniranAdditional Production Support: Arjuna Ramgopowell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, welcome back to House of R. I'm Jonah Robinson. That's Mallory Rubin. And we're here today to talk to you about Lantern, Season 1, Episode 2, Trustfall. Yes. Malari. Joanna. We're back from Baltimore. Ah, in the name of Tom Osborne or whoever it is you worship. What a wonderful few days we've had. Delightful to be back here with you at the crack of dawn. Crack of this podcast. And we're mere hours away from our like midnight screening of essentially. of Labyrinth.

Yeah. So it's going to be a full day for us. A lot of caffeine ahead of us. Yes. Probably a couple Advil for me at least. I don't know about you. So let's get into this slightly unhinged podcast. Can't wait right after this.

Two and five Canadians will hear the words you have cancer. That's why every step and dollar raised matters. On September 19th, join thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation walk. Challenge yourself, friends, and family to walk. 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research. Together, we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer. Register today at pmcf walk.ca.ca. When you buy furniture from Wayfair, you're not just getting furniture, you're setting your home up for a lifetime of memories.

Visit Wayfair.ca. today or download the Wayfair app. Furniture made for all of life's moments. That's Wayfair. Wayfair, every style, every home. Programming Reminders. Yes. It's Monday when you're listening and watching this unless something has gone dramatically wrong in the edit, which I'm sure it won't. Jeez. And so in general, I just want to put that caveat out there in case.

Knock on wood. There's a lot of people here today. Yeah. You think the fantasy guys are just going to pop into the edit bay and take over? Yeah. Yeah. The high fits cut? Could be.

Honestly, it would be great. What about the Danny Kelly cut? The DK cut would be elite. Just incredible. The fantasy football guys are here. The watches here. today. There's a lot going on here at Sycamore. But we're here today to talk to you about lanterns as we will, hopefully every Monday going forward. That is the plan. Oppenheimer.

Yes. Again, unless something goes dramatically wrong tomorrow, Oppenheimer will be coming out later this week. So that is very exciting. Sean Fantasy is here to wrap up our Nolan rewatch project. Thrilling. And then Buffy season five, parts one and two are on the horizon. We got a lot At the, I mean, thank you, Baltimore. Thank you everyone on the Eastern Seaboard. That's right. Thank you to folks from like Florida and like all over the place who came to see. Florida was wild.

Detroit. Yeah, Detroit. To throw out the first pitch at the Orioles Yankees game, don't worry about the score. It doesn't matter. But Malley threw out the pitch. It was amazing. We did House of Our Live. It was House of Our Night at Camden Yards.

And it was honestly just a life highlight. It was wonderful. It was incredible. The Bad Baby's Rule. Thank you to the O's for hosting us. There were hundreds of listeners there. We tried to talk to as many of them as we could. Yes.

We did not see a lick of the game because we were just a meeting and a greeting. But everyone was so lovely. But there was a lot of like Buffy enthusiasm among that crowd. Yeah. Which was great to see. Delightful. A lot of bad babies in their custom, bad baby. And House of Arm merch, also a thrill.

And who would you say won the Apple Wars at Cannes? I would say that as usual, Team Green feels more compelled to express support because they know how badly Team Green needs it. Sure. Green Apple after Green Apple enthusiast greeted us. in Baltimore, and that's just a fact. So thank you to our entire team who came out with us. House of our squad, Ringer Squad Squad, Spotify squad.

What would we do without Elizabeth Fehrman? You ever think about it? I cry. When I think about it, Elizabeth, astonishing. Elizabeth, Tessa, the best. Who, like, organizes the whole thing. And then also Boots on the ground is taking every single photo with our listeners. You know what I mean?

Just like doing everything. Arjuna, Carlos, Jomi were there. Carlos had to miss a whole game because he was editing the podcast. Jordan from Spotify was there. And then for the OOS. I mean, Patrick, incredible. You got to meet Eve and Kevin, Kevin Brown, Sarah, Kevin Brown crashed the live event. That was wonderful, Voice of the Orioles.

And Danny Hyfitz was there. Hyfitz was, I would say, inextricable from the experience, which was one of the most memorable days of my life. Danny Hyfitz was giving us, like, mother bear energy, and it was just, like, incredibly sweet and kind. Mallorybin, how are you feeling? Genuinely, it was a life highlight. It was an incredible experience. I was so proud of you. I cried.

There were some glistening eyes. Yeah. It was lovely. I was very much in a state of like until the last second, you know, is this real? Is this happening? Is this legit? This is a big prank. And I was very stressed for various reasons heading into it. And then the day itself was just euphoric. Just a joy to be there with you to get to bring you and our house of our family home. You got to meet my family. You got to meet so many of my best buds who were there. You got to see part of my hometown. And you got to go to Camden.

You know, one of the genuine sacred temples and spaces not only in baseball and in sports, but in my life. Certainly. A beautiful field. Wonderful. Gorgeous. And to be there, to get to do the live show, to get to do House of Art at the warehouse before the game, and that to get to go down on the field and we got to take a bunch of photos, the OS gave us custom jerseys. That was insane.

Incredible. And I got a pair of the city connects. Yeah. Which I had missed the drop for. I mean, I tried for the drop, but I didn't get it. That was just like such a perfect gift for you. You were just sort of like, wow, you guys know me. You guys really know me.

I felt seen known and understood. Thank you, Patrick. And the bad babies were just as always a delight during the pot itself. was so fun and wonderful. To go down and do the pitch, just incredible. It was really cool and great and fun. And then we got to hang with the bad babies in the in the Pure Wager Pavilion out in center field for the whole game. And it was just like a delight. It was really surreal and wonderful. And I'm thrilled that we got to do it. And I hope that we're invited back in 2007, 2008, 2009, frankly, as long as we're making House of Our. We would like to make this an annual event.

Let's just throw this out there to the Baltimore Orioles, Patrick, if you're listening. We heard from a lot of people who were like, I wish I had been there. I know. The tickets were sold out. I would have come. Yeah. Let's do it again. Let's run it back.

Round two. Yeah. Bigger, slightly bigger venue. In the warehouse. Oh, my God. So it was just incredible. Thank you for doing it with me. I won't truly remember it until I die.

I'm right now. You know, I'm not like often posting on social media, but I am like how many Instagram posts is too many before it becomes embarrassing? We're going to find out. I feel like I've done. We're going to find out. I feel like I've done. more than you have, and that's incorrect. You were there right away.

That's incorrect. But this is how I know you're... You should like flood the feed. You're a creature of the internet and you know how it's done. I'm like, no. I gotta go hit Pickles Pub and then, oh no, and 24 hours of past. You were there too. I haven't been to Pickles in a thousand years. That was also fun just to be home. We had some obstacles also in Baltimore. Anyway, we should talk about... We should talk about lanterns. There's a lot to talk about... We'll probably keep talking about this Baltimore experience until we die. Forever. Will we do a live show at some point in Rushville, Nebraska? No. I'm open to it. Okay. I am open to doing a live pod from the field.

Give us some pioneers merch. Is Rushville Nebraska a real place? I think so. Is it? Okay, maybe then. I thought it was fictional. Okay, spoiler warning. A little different this time than last week. In general, we say comics canon is fair game. We will talk about it to give context. We're not going to like deep, deep, deep into comics lore. There are some storylines that we were just sort of like, huh, do we want to, like, does the casual listener want to know about what happened to Hal Jordan in this particular storyline? We weren't sure. And we're actually quite, we're wondering if it's going to be a key part of this season. Right. And genuinely don't know. But if it is and then we've talked about it, it's like, it's a spoiler for people. Right. When it wasn't intended to be. So we're being cautious.

So we're going to do like a rapid fire sort of a comics lore, really more of a listener theory corner because we got a lot of listener emails about these comic storylines. So we will have a section at the end where we will give you fair warning that if you want to be hypervigilant about spoilers, this section is coming. We're not going to have, we may or may not have our usual sort of like horn sound. But we will definitely with our brains and our hearts and our minds and our mouths give you warning to. to leave if you don't want to know. Anything else? No, I think that sounds exactly right. Maybe we'll expand that section as we go across the season.

We'll see. Who knows? Who knows? Let's go now to our opening snapshot. Quick facts. Episode 2, Trustfall. Yes. Directed by James Haas, written by Vanessa Baden, Kelly, and Chris Monday.

Or Bob, maybe. Anyway, Vanessa is also, I believe, a producer on this show. Week 2 reception for Lanches. Just really quickly, check it in on the old, unreliable tomato. meter. The critic score has gone up 94% from critics. Wow. Fan score has gone slightly down 82% from fans. Still good. From fans. Still quite good. Yep. Still quite good. And then we didn't have numbers when we recorded our podcast for episode one. But with the usual caveats when they're like, best HBO max debut on a Sunday when the rain conditions were this or whatever.

Yeah. But like quite a good debut. Outperformed it. Well, Welcome to Derry, The Penguin, and True Detective Night Country. So, like, pretty solid numbers. And with every expectation that they'll sort of, like, go up and up from there. But, like, a pretty good start for True Detective in general. Maladur Rubin, episode two. You loved episode one. How did you feel about episode two?

I quite enjoyed it. I really did. I think that splitting... Because so much of... There were a lot of things that worked for me about the premiere. But so much of what worked about this as not only... about the first episode is not only an episode of television, but as like an onboarding into this experience of this series

was the energy between the rapport between Hal and John. And so to split them up at the beginning of this episode could have gone so wrong. Malsy. Yeah, I thought it was really bold and really effective because it not only shows us how they're each navigating life and what they're pursuing and how they think, how does Hal go and conduct an investigation do some true detecting, right? It allows us to understand, you can only really understand a relationship if you understand

the people inside of it, right? And so to have glimpsed them as a duo first and then get to see how they navigate the field and their circumstances on their own, but still find creative ways like the phone call when John has arrived at Hal's house, and not only are they interacting by saying things to each other, even though they're not in the same physical. space, you know, as we'll talk about more when we get to that scene, that's like such an intimate thing and such a revealing and illuminating stretch to have John walk through house nearly empty home. What does that tell him? You've not been to my home yet. Well, I haven't been invited. You have. The doors open. Oh, the old standing invite, but that's what I do and we all know.

That's bullshit. I know. Turnabout's fair play. So I really loved splitting them up. I thought it worked quite well. And then obviously they're brought back together at the end. And not only are they brought back together, they're brought back together with a ticking clock. This new 48-hour circumstance, the manhunter, the hunt for the Manhunter is on. I thought once again the way that this episode found the balance between the grounded, rooted Rushville, Oroco City stretches and the glimpses and peppering in of comic book elements. You know, we end this episode with not only how Jordan in the suit. after seeing John find the suit, find the lantern, power charge the ring, we get a rushed, hurried vow. Howl suits up flies into space and is talking to Sinestro at the end of this episode. So I thought that was also really smart. We're only two episodes in, largely in our canvas jackets in the town of the small town in Nebraska.

And then we end in space with Sanestro. So we're like signaling we are still in a Green Lantern story, even though this has been so deliberately crafted in this kind of tonal space. So I'm just really great. There's a lot of interesting shipping fodder here for the Carrie Halheads out there. Oh, I thought it was for the Sinestro Halheads. That as well. And then obviously the most important thing in the entire episode is that we meet Earl Jordan.

You know, how Jordan Peck guy. You thought I was in before, folks. My God. Are you a good gardener? Can you keep plants alive? wouldn't know. I haven't really tried. I think I would be okay at it.

A lot of tepawares of beef and bison. As you know, our fridge at pretty much any time is mostly just full of left of beverages. Beverage is usually. We don't have a lot of food in the house. We have a lot of snacks in the pantry and a lot of ice cream in the freezer. And the fridge is mostly just beverages. And then we order a lot of food. So I think I could clear the necessary space for some beef bison blend.

I have this in the notes later, but I just need to get, like, address it right now. Do it. Really shocking setup. honestly. Like, delighted to meet Earl Jordan, delighted to find out that Hal not only has a carnivorous plant, alien plant that's his, like, pet, his pal or whatever, but has given it his last name. It's so sweet. It's very sweet. So to see the stacks of Tupperware that say Earl Jordan's meal prepping for Earl. It's very charming. Yeah. From a food storage point of view, you've got concerns. I am someone who does like regularly like cook meat in the house and you have to rotate it between

the freezer and then defrost it and then heat it unless you're buying fresh all the time. Right. That much thawed meat in the fridge is such cause for alarm for me. And I know that Hal didn't know necessarily that he was going out of town. But even if he was in town, that much raw, thawed meat right next to where you're keeping your bottle of Coke and your ketchup. And your course light. Is a no. Well, there are, I think, two possibilities.

One, Hal maybe not thinking so much about food safety, that strikes me as possible. Two, and this would be a little bit of an asterisk on the Hal Jordan Peck. I'm, well, Earl Jordan. Does Earl possibly just need to eat like 12 times a day? Like, is that maybe just two days worth of food? Yeah, sweet little sunfire needs to devour people. Exactly. And then I shift into...

It's irresponsible to leave your pet like that. What was the plan? Yeah. Hal, you're popping all over the galaxy. Nobody on call to check in and feed, Earl. Yeah, he's just supposed to be going out to tacos with Johnny. And then he'd, like, you know, fucked off to Nebraska. So he didn't, like, have a plan in place.

But, yeah, I understand that he doesn't have a lot of attachments. We understand that this is a key part of his character. But you need to have, like, a pet sitter that, you know, someone, a person. Someone's definitely cleaning that house. That property is immaculately kept despite being devoid of possessions. The grounds are manicured. Grounds are stunning. Someone's cleaning all of the empty.

There's a little robot snake in the pool. Like someone is checking it. So maybe someone's feeding her all, but how wanted John to go check in still? I have food safety concerns. Listen, in our era of constant food recalls and food parallels, I think this is a good flag on your part. Okay, great. Here's what I want to say. I also really enjoyed this episode.

I appreciate it as like a piece of entertainment, a piece of storytelling, and then also as like a, not to like say something kind of douchy. Like someone who like studies how TV is put together. Sure. I thought this was really masterfully crafted because when you are launching a world like this for people. Yeah. And you need to introduce a lot of rules. This episode is heavy with exposition. Really heavy.

You mentioned the suit. We get the suit. We get the lantern. We learn the rules of a different thing. We learn about Manhunters in the first place. Like, you know, there's just like a lot to learn inside of this episode. And it is really deftly deployed. and we'll talk about some sort of like some screenwriting tricks that they used to make sure that it all felt like it moved at a quick pace.

And there's a lot of showing, not telling, but there's also a lot of telling in this episode. And oftentimes I can go very poorly. But to your point, they didn't really bogged down the premiere with a ton, a ton, a ton of exposition. There was a lot. But like it wasn't like, here's the lantern. Here are the rules. The lanterns. Here's that and this, that and the other thing.

So I thought that was smart to wait until episode two to do that. The episode one focus, as you pointed out, was really on that, like, how. John relationship. And then, yeah, I just really enjoyed, not just the two of them separated to see how they work on their own, but also to see how both of them work without the ring. Like, who are they depowered? Who is Hal after the last 5% of the ring kicks off and he falls and he spits out gravel? And he has to like haul those naked alien corpses around all just by them. Just like grit and ingenuity, you know, and John.

So jealous. John, who's not a, like, superhero without, you know, he's not, he doesn't have, like, superpowers necessarily, but he holds his own in a fight with, like, like, obviously superpowered aliens, you know, and the fight on the freeway. And I was listening to The Official Podcast, and they were talking about how I had already noted, like, what a good on-screen runner, Aaron Pierre is, but they noted that, like, Stump Performer Swap? That he was like a track star and they shot it with a double, a stunt double, and they're like, actually, Aaron goes faster. That's amazing. So they swapped Aaron in for that. And I was just sort of like, you could tell because the camera doesn't have to hide his face and it's actually him.

So like, this is such a promising action star in the making. Like, you know, the places he could go after this. I've also been having a really fun time in the last week. You know, I mentioned that I was like familiar with the Green Lantern, basic lore. But I've been having a really good time sort of like when I can grab time between Trust of Baltimore, something like that, digging into sort of the Green Lantern comics history and like what the character has meant over time and how that has changed. The different, of course, people have had the monikers.

But also just thinking a lot about how the Green Lantern, no matter his moniker, or her moniker, is a superhero that really engages writers and artists. Because, you know, John Stewart, Hal Jordan, whoever they are, that character is like a collaborative storyteller with a person who's making the art. So because the comic writers and artists are crafting the story. They're drawing the story and they're writing this story. But let's say Hal Jordan is also actively participating the story because depending on what he decides to create, that determines, like, where the story goes from there. So like Green Lantern as a storyteller superhero and why that has really engaged the creatives behind this character. It's a great show.

And then there's like a bunch of other stuff that I will talk about as we go. But like that's just been like really fun for me to educate myself a bit more on this character and what this character is meant to the various people who have written him and occasionally her over the years. It's a great flag early in the pod. And, like, we got a few fun little nuggets on that front acknowledgments of that idea in this episode. Something like at the end, you know, obviously everything with John manifesting the bird and what that tells us about his prodigious abilities. Yeah. But, you know, something at the very end, like, you know, we talked last week about the glimpses of John sketching and the through the two-way interrogation mirror, et cetera, and like the idea of perspective and artistic ability and John Stewart as architect and artist. But just more broadly, you know, you have a moment at the end.

of this like Hal saying, well, what's up with that bird? You know, we'll talk about that scene more when we get there. And the bird, wonderful bird. We talked about it all, but I loved the bird. That was just delightful and so rich in terms of what it tells us about everybody who's observing that, but also John who is making it and then letting it go, right? There's so much to parse there. But the note from Hal of like, well, what's that about?

That came from your subconscious. Exactly. You know, so what that tells us about, there is often in the field in a moment of need something very practical, something utilitarian about a construct. if you want to, you know. Something very flirtatious, like a bottle opener. But yeah, then there is the deeper rooting in what you carry inside of you and how what you project into the world, what that conveys about who you are and what you think and how you feel.

And given the through line that we're tracking and that is, you know, inherent to Lantern's canon, but that we are both so interested in like what is this show, a prestige TV drama on HBO, interested in mining on the emotion front, right? Fear and will and anger and other emotions. and how they inform each other, like, what do all of these? You know, there's a really interesting aspect of this episode where, you know, Anton says, like, have you ever had somebody, you ever been deceived by somebody you love? John's just like, yes.

Yes. And we're like, what, who, when, and then, not only is that such an intriguing note to give us for John, feels very intentional that this is in the episode where we meet Sinestro. Yeah. And we're thinking about what is Hal's version of that. So to your point about structure, the fact that this is such a. a meaty and intriguing episode for them as individuals, but those parallels are there. Beef and bison, meat. Beef and bison, homemade meal prep. Really great. I agree with what you said about the,

what do they do without the ring? It's very, we talked about this recently in the context of covering another property, but it's very, if you're nothing without that suit, then you shouldn't have it, right? What does the ring and the power of the ring and being chosen do for you? But also, like, you are the person who is wearing it or suiting up. And what I like about it. And what I like about what they show us in this episode is like there's so, you know, from the beginning and again, you, you, you outlined this theme for me when you had watched

the episode before I had this idea of like, what is earned versus what is given to you. And all of, all of what the show has already told is about how John has had to like work and train his whole life to, you know, feel like he deserves to be here has earned this spot or whatever. And then

Hall it was just given to him. Like that dichotomy is there. But also, Hal is not useless without the ring. And I think that that's like a really fun like complication because there could be a version of this story where he is like the privileged white man who was given this thing and then he's nothing without it. And he and the thing that is so interesting is like he believes he is nothing without it. But we watch him in this episode.

Yeah, he gets shot. That's not great. But like do so much. Through and through. Glad you're a fan of his work. Yeah. Do so much like ingenuity wise without the ring. Right.

And so to see him, you mentioned, you've mentioned. you flag this last week, but to sort of like to see his competency is important. It's crucial. Okay. Let's go down to the deep dive. Wonderful. All right. Before we start with sort of the opening of this episode, I do want to just have like a little pre-chat about 2016, this entire episode. And so we had talked about the various, you know, 10 years apart timelines that we might explore, 96, 86, 2006, you know, 2026. Were you surprised to see that this episode was just in 2016? I don't, yeah, maybe a little, but I don't, I think just like reflecting on it now after the fact, I don't know if I was honestly even consciously thinking about it while watching it,

like, oh, we're not moving through time. I think that the split of the two primary leads of the show would have made also moving through time feel maybe a little. full, a little overly full, overly stuffed. So I think keeping us rooted in the present, the present, not of our lives here in 2006, but the primary, what seems to be the primary timeline of the show, makes sense, given that we were in multiple locations and that our primary figures were apart. Some people don't like to watch the previews for next week on, so if you don't want to hear this, hit fast forward like once or twice, we'll keep this quick.

They showed the preview for episode three at the end of it. Certainly appears like we're moving through time next week in a very John-centric episode. So that's exciting. I wonder if each episode will function a little bit differently about where we are on the map, where we are in time. I just think that maybe we'll get all of it at some point. I think some people, and it doesn't matter, but like I think that some people thought with this sort of true detective idea that it would be more closely hewing to what some seasons of true detective have been, which is like we're splitting time sort of evenly between these two things. Right. And that is not the case here.

we're still, we were primarily in 2016 in the first episode and we are entirely in 2016 in this episode. So we'll see, as you said, where we go from here. But I thought that was interesting. I will say, like, because we had speculated about the possibility last week based on where the premiere ended with, you know, how bullet hole in his forehead on the snowy bleachers. To that point, will we have that kind of tandem investigation across time? Maybe that still happens. It's possible that still happens. We talked about like the number of shots and then this season on where John.

has a goate and seems to maybe be set in that future Guy Gardner's appearances, etc. I was happy to come into episode two and be with Kyle Chandler. Kyle Chandler and Nair and Pierre. So if that is more a like this is looming in the distance, but we are largely operating in 2016 with them together or maybe glimpsing the past versus spending a ton of time in the future,

I mean, I'm open to all possibilities. I think that would be my preference given me. I'm a deep and abiding enthusiasm for howlchews. A howl full story. Okay. Exactly. Are we shifting from Alien Watch to Manhunter Watch or do we have room for both inside of this episode, inside of this series?

You know, we were doing like, we're talking about Secret Scroll Watch, which is a leftover from, you know, Marvel and Secret Invasion. And, yeah, great show. So as we shift into, and we got a lot of emails about Manhunter. watch and Manhunter theories, which we'll talk about a little bit later. But I'm still open to like anyone can be an alien. Anyone can be a manhunter. I mean, we meet other aliens.

Exactly. I think that given that we meet Anton, still to this day, I'm like, spares from the wire. Oh, yeah. Until the day I die, that'll be just, it's like, that's one help it. That's like when I go, oh, it's Frank Sabaka. Frank Sabaka is. Chris Bauer. It's always a Frank Subbacca.

Always a Frank Sinbacca. You know, you know, Natina's whole crew are like, we're here for, we're hunting the hunter. So here's what I'm saying. It's all in the mix. We're in Rushville, Nebraska. Yeah. We got our eye out for a manhunter.

Yes. I'm not content to say that's all we should be looking for in Nebraska. I quite agree. I quite agree. Who else has taken off a hoodie and is standing there in short sleeves shivering on a snowy field like Whalen loves? It's a great question. It's a great question. As being of Whalen, we got a lot of emails from listeners with suggestions for names of aliens. I put most of them in here in the document.

I was curious if any stuck out to you as particularly delightful. Should you do a dramatic reading so that we can hear out loud how many of them actually really sound like Alien? Obviously, it varies like accent to accent. So Alan Haley, Haley Ann. Haley Ann is pretty good. Haley Ann is tough to top. Gabe said Haley Ann, nothing like a good old Southern double name to give you that human energy. And I agree.

Haley Ann is probably the winner. There's a lot of great ones here. Jacob suggested to Elon. Would that be so surprising? Elon the alien? Oh, man. Our listener, Alan, who's not an alien probably, wrote in to let us know,

and I know this is true for a lot of people that John Stewart in the animated Justice League is like their Green Lantern. And they grew up with John Stewart, a very important person. And a very important person for a lot of people in terms of like, this is the first time I saw a superhero

would look like me. It was John Stewart in this animated series or in the comics or whatever. Yes. But Alan wrote in not only to say that, but also to share a photo of himself. This is incredible. He worked at Six Flags over Texas back in the 2000.

I did it because DC had a partnership to put costume characters in the park. So I could audition to be John Stewart, one of the coolest experiences of my life. And it's a photo of him with his mom. I love this so much. And he looks amazing. This is so good. It's very sweet. So thank you for that photo.

Thank you, Alan. We also got several emails from listeners talking to us about Jessica Cruz, who is a person who has had the Green Lantern moniker. inside the comics. And a character with social anxiety. And to really dig into that character as an example of how the comics has over the decades veered from this idea of like, we were talking about this idea of emotional absolutism. So veered from this idea of fear, no fear, fearlessness to this idea of overcoming fear. And the distinction between those two.

So it's not just an absence of fear. It's like you feel the fear, but you do it scared anyway, right? And so there's this section where she's talking about her social anxiety. And she says, the ring doesn't fix it. Right. I don't get better from this. I fight anxiety every day. It's the biggest battle I have.

And then also, when a new green lantern is chosen, they're inducted to the core with a specific phrase. You have the ability to overcome great fear. So again, it's just this idea. And like, I understand that, again, to go back to last week's episode, I understand that that was not the point you were making that it was just like a complete binary like that. But I do think when we think of something like John Sr. shooting an apple off of his child's head in order to like make sure his child feels no fear. And we got a great email about that. That I'll read a little bit later. But like that there maybe have been some versions of that. Or if Hal feels like he's not allowed, you know, he has no attachments. He doesn't know anyone. He lost a parent. That's the scariest thing one can experience.

And so he will not connect or he lost Sanestro. And that's the most traumatic thing that someone can experience his mentor. And so he will cut himself off from people and that is a way to avoid fear. But to avoid fear completely feels like the thing that leaves you the most open. Sure, of course. Absolutely. To influence and warping. Yeah.

I mean, yeah, this is what I was saying last week. It's so interesting to me about this version of the story from these creators who are obviously, you know, we're Damon Superfans. That's no secret to anyone. But, you know, Ozark, true detective, you know, Tom King's work, you know, what Monday has made. Like, I think with these performers and the HBO Sunday Night's slot and just also like what we got right away in the first episode, that line from Carrie about, you know, know, these lonely, like, signaling in a number of wastehouse right away that the show was going to be interested in interrogating what it means to have to tell yourself, I'm not afraid. Right.

Like, that is just such an interesting place to find any person, but particularly somebody in a very visible position of carrying the burden of being the chosen one or trying to seek out that mantle and saying, like, I'm the one who can do this thing. everybody's eyes are on me all the time. So I also think that like those burdens of expectations, you know, that Monday and all the rest have talked a lot about in terms of like how being the first human. Yes. Green Lantern. There's no, there's no blueprint for this having to deal with the burden of expectations. But again, I think back to like the Jedi and like this really unreasonable expectation of like perfection and purity and how that leads to the fall for so many

of them because you cannot be that perfect paragon of what have you. Certainly not. All right. We open with what I'm calling the Maddie Saracen in a shower. Tim Riggins running in the rain, ice bucket challenge. Coach Taylor, tough love special. I don't know how they did in the caption. Yeah, he wrote cold open.

There you go. That's close enough. We saw this at Comic-Con. You and I both were like, it's Matt Saracen in a shower time. Right. John wants to know why Hal has an alert the guardians about the dead aliens. And we are also curious about why Hal is reluctant to reach out to the guardians.

He looks quite nervous later in the episode when he asked John if he's told the guardians about the Manhunter. What, if anything, do you want to say about this? In terms of the moment at the end of the episode, you know, their conversation in the parking lot, I think in general there's a lot to parse and read on Hal Jordan's face in every conversation he has in this episode. You know, it's just, he's so expressive. And because so much of the question of, like, what is how carrying and how much of, like,

what he's saying to other people is something he's forcing himself to believe in how much is he just, like, lying to himself. What is he not ready to really, like, stare plainly in the face? You know, I think the, like, the conversation at the end, oh, Mr. Chated Command now wants me to break. Like, I think there's a lot of, there are a lot of potential interpretations of it. I think some of it in an episode calls trustful. is always asking ourselves, who is interrogating whether they can trust the other person,

and it's always going in all directions. So, like, John choosing to tell Hal about the Manhunters when he not only didn't have to, but when Anton was like, this guy is like, don't trust him, that's obviously a huge part of the trust fall idea. But frankly, like, Hal is running his test too. You call him the Guardians? No, I work for you. I report to you.

can either of them put their faith and trust into the bond they have with each other? Hal is constantly, constantly, like, this guy is here to be my trainee, but what does that really mean? What does it mean to be teaching this person how to do the thing that I have done? And so when we talk about the big idea of fear, and you mentioned this earlier, like, you know, he doesn't, he's afraid of what he would be without the ring. Well, like, what is a larger version of fear to carry inside of you than, like, what is my function, not just as a hero, but as a person in the world, if somebody else does this thing that I do. And better than I ever did it. Yeah.

Yeah. I think, you know, there are a few times in this episode where characters, whether nefariously or not, are actively trying to drive a wedge between Hal and John. And like that, you know, that wedge is already there just based on the circumstances and their personalities. but the fact that there are these external forces trying to pull them apart. And the fact that we at home, that tension that we at home, are really hoping that they can find a way to be together. Yes. Lanturns, S. You know, and the fact that we know we have hanging over us this future where Hal dies alone frozen on a bleacher. Were they united that point?

When's the last time they had spoken to each other were, you know, did they ever figure it out together or did they figure out it together for a time and then it didn't, and then it fell apart or what happened? We don't know that's. But something that Damon Lindeloff has said many times when talking about story, I think most recently to me when talking about severance is just like the most important thing inside of a story is are the people I care about going to be okay. Yeah. Yes. That's it. Are the people. I care about going to be okay. Will they be able to connect with each other? Right. You know? And, you know, how we know is going to die alone frozen on a bleacher. So, like, in many ways, no, he's not going to be okay. But like, what kind of connection can he find before there? Does he have a connection with Carrie at some point? Did he know the NOAA was all state before John found out? I mean, yeah. And then which is more, you know, we were briefly. Did he train him? That would be, I mean, I like, that's our head canon, whether or not it ends up being sure the answer is yes. We talked about this very briefly at the end last week, but like, what's more tragic?

If Hal and John do forge that bond that we want them to forge and then we lose Hal, or if they don't quite, and those wedges that people are trying to insert. But that was why it felt so wonderful. It's interesting to hear, you know, you mentioned the official pod that that on that, in that discussion, like very quick mention of just how that specifically. like what is the right moment to have John tell Hal about the Manhunters was like a huge discussion in the restroom. And I think this feels really right, deciding to have him do it not only like frankly, practically, because the 48 hour clock, it's like, yeah, we need to get, we're inside of this pressure cooker of that of that countdown. But it tells us that John, despite all of the things that he's

caring about Hal and they're both constantly looking at the other person. Like, you know, there are a lot of moments like that in the premiere that we talked about last week. There are a lot of them in this episode, too, including right in this flight training scene, like, unclenched, so good, right? They're both seeing something in the other one that doesn't sit quite right. But then there's also something maybe to pull them toward each other. And John's choosing to tell how that is a really big, it would be very easy to let everybody else, you know, Zoe and the cafe. Like, if you have to ask, if you can trust them, you already know. But then what does John do right after that in a moment of real intensity where he's like you fucked up the rental car, you don't take anything seriously.

It's all a fucking joke to you. Still, I'm going to tell you this. And attention for us at home is a question of like how much of that is an actual bid for connection and how much of that is his training of the chain of command, you know? Okay, so we have this flying sequence. This is so good. I'm a fighter pilot, so I've heard is real like I have the blood of a caution me from Hal Jordan, how many times he said it.

Oh my God. Really great. But there's a couple moments. And you mentioned Kyle Chandler's face in the play of emotion where, like, this idea of fear. If Hal Jordan is a character who has been heroic in his life but is really having a crisis of fear and insecurity at this moment in his life. Something that Kyle Chandler does repeatedly, he does it here. He does it later when Kerry pulls him over where he's almost like a kid who's been like caught. And then he sort of like squares his shoulders and is like defiant in the moment.

moment, but there's like this childlike fear of like, oh, man, she's pulled me over and I have naked alien corpses in the car, and he's just sort of like, what? You know, he's posturing, right? And so he does it here when he like, when John puts the ring on and he holds it up and how, like, recoils, like, has an instant recoiling of like, are you, as soon as you put the ring on, this is something he's afraid of. As soon as he puts the ring on, he's going to use it on me and take the green lantern from me and it's going to be over. Yeah. Right. So there's this instant recoil and then this sort of like posturing. And then later like when John first tries to fly, he does this like sort of back up. But then he's like, I knew he wasn't going to be able

to do it. You know what I mean? It's just like this, this wordless passage of play of emotions on his face constantly. I liked that we got a version of that from John too in this episode with Earl actually. Like he when Earl first kind of activates and John also is like, whoa. And it's like, Yeah, there are people and part of being a person or a lantern is saying, okay, I got it. I'm like, I'm going to be cool here. I'm overcoming here. Yeah, what is the real, you know, and we love the, you know, we mentioned last week both the kind of dune litany of fear version, which like is, fear is the mind killer, fear is bad,

but still even that, it's about telling yourself with using your training to push through it. We are more prone to the Thronean. Where do you find your courage? You find your courage by working through your fear. that's something that we love inside of Thrones, but also talk about in other stories. The fact that for John in that moment with Earl, it's almost like reflex, right? Part of being a person is responding to, like, to stimuli.

But also there's the bird. He's like, don't eat my bird. And so he's thinking about, like, protecting a thing that at the end of the episode, he will have to put his hand on and turn to dust. That's honestly the wildest moment of this episode. It was great. To watch him, again, from like a screenwriting perspective, to give John something, to protect this entire episode. That's the classic screenwriting, saving the cat sort of thing.

So to give him something vulnerable to protect. And also to see the bird sort of like fly into action during the van fight. The bird is like pecking at the alien who's attacking him. You know what I mean? So like there is a bond between them. No question. John reaching out to catch the bird as he dives. All of us. So for him to just dispassionately, whether that's a performance or not, but dispassionately, you know, turn that that bird into ether is. Yeah. It's another version of these... Stonen. Stoen, all connected, right? Another version of, like, I mean, what is on the Kyle Jordan face front, like, what is playing in Hal's mind in that moment? What is the test always that they're running on each other? But for John, it felt like a...

You're telling me that this has to be something massive in terms of what it says about my, like, psyche, my past. Like, you don't get to know that. But, like, also, right, like, nothing... I determine what matters to me, right? And so it's another version of art. Are you afraid? are you afraid, like, are you defined by any of the things other than the decision you make in the moment to take the next step forward?

It's like feels like John feels like he has to say, I don't need this bird to be with me. Would it be so bad to keep the bird with you? But it feels like he has to do that to prove something. Really, really interesting. To prove that he doesn't need it, but also just to sort of like, that's an insight from Hal. I mean, that has to be true. Yeah. That bird has to mean something to him.

It must. That we will surely find out. But like for him to be like, no, that's a lie and that's a wall, right? No, it doesn't mean anything to me, you know? On the how the flinching and the flight training to you, the other thing, of course, on the fear, there's the like, oh, am I going to, am I about to be blasted back? Or are you going to like bot me in the face with some construct? There's all of that.

Like, where you try to take over in this moment, like you said. There's also just the like the fear that's underlying all of this of will you be better at this than me? Oh, yeah. Will you be so good at this? And he instantly is. And then the, but like you said, the relief of, oh, you can't fly. You can't fly. I get to be better at this one thing.

But then you make this bird. You make this bird that, like, no one can do in comics canon. Like, to make something alive, it's extremely rare for a green lantern to be able to do it, to be able to keep it intact without having the ring on. To pass out. Because what House says is, like, you lose concentration. You lose the bird. And he passes out. And the birds is still there.

Intriguing. Yike. All right. So we get this ring near depletion moment. Our listener, Steve, says, haven't we all had to do work and the charger is at home? Great moment. It is real. I wrote down an iPhone charger as well in my notes because it is a real like, okay, you can do so much. You know, the idea that with the ring, the only limit is your imagination of what you can conceive. Well, that's very powerful. But then these practical caps, right? you've got to remember to charge. Is the lantern with you? The way that it's not just something for us to think about as viewers or readers. But, like, Whalen called that out in the first episode in the interrogation scene with How for a reason, right? How much power do you have left, right? Did you bring the lantern with you?

But this isn't going to have to think about? Is that like a leash or a collar that the guardians have put on the green lanterns? So just sort of that cap on their power, right? You're going to have to go plug in at home. I'll take the lantern with you. And yes, this is just in terms of inside the flow of this. That's more broadly about the canon, what's interesting. So in terms of the flow of the season,

Chekhov's one-time re-up trip. Oh, the 5%. The Fonzie bump on the ring? Obviously, that will come back into play in some moment. The question then becomes, in what circumstance and for? Who over whom's? I hope it's John. He's paying attention.

He's learning lessons. That would be great. All right. How makes John take a flight back to Coast City? Can I just say very quickly? Which is a fictional city, unlike I guess, Rushville, Nebraska. Some San Francisco ties in the in terms of where in California this is supposed to be. The show, we've talked a lot about individual lines that have made us laugh, but just broadly, one of the things that is working so well about the show is that it is funny.

This show could have been so, like, dower and serious. The booked-you-a-window, I don't understand, on an airplane, there are seats near the window and seats near the aisle and seats in the middle, but nobody wants this. is just like the injections of very authentic levity into these conversations. Obviously Unclunch was a great one, you know, cut out the surb bullshit. We both know you don't mean it. Like, this is a funny scene. Yeah, we just talked about all of these really intense character beats

and a lot of interesting lore beats. I was laughing watching the scene. It's a hard balance to strike. I think it's just very impressive so far through two episodes. For us to in that scene learn about rain depletion, trick power-ups, how concentration and constructs are connected, flying. Like, all of that just happens in this one. parking lot scene. And in almost every scene in this episode, at least two things are going on at the same time.

Right. And that is like a really smart way to keep us sort of activated and entertain. Even in like, you know, one of the most egregious lure dumps, but like I love the scene was when Anton is telling him about the Manhunters. And like just the way that is shot where the camera keeps cutting to this device that is being assembled. You know, so the tension is racking up and we're like, what is that? That doesn't look like human. What is that? John's worried about what that is. We don't know what that is. And so like Anton's talking. We're paying attention. But we're also like, what's that?

What's that? What's that? You know? And so that's just like keeps it lively. It keeps it going. Our sweet little bird is watching from the drop ceiling. Yeah. Yeah.

Cutting to the bird, cutting to the device. And you're just like, what's happening? All right. So after the parking lot scene, the flying instruction that is not really a flying instruction, opening credits logo. Howl works the case. We find Hal sitting on the bleachers where he will die. How many times. You think we're going to return to, like, that image of him sitting there on those bleachers as his, like, thinking spot.

And would it make it interesting if, like, if that's his favorite spot to go and think for the rest of the season, then, like, what was he going to have a think about, you know, in the snow when he died? I know. It was quite, it had that real, just authentic, like, oh, man, you feel your heart and your stomach kind of clench when you see him there after how episode one ended. And it makes sense. He's there. He's there to look for clues to investigate the crime. He's panning the scene. He's taking an intel.

He's down looking at the blood spots. But it does just emotionally for us as viewers, we talk about the 48-hour clock. There's this 10-year clock, right? For us, of doom, of peril for this person. So then, yeah, like, I don't know. There's a part of me that wants them to maintain a level of discipline where we're not going to see him there every single episode.

And then there's a part of me that's like, if every episode I see him sitting there and I feel that way, there will be something very effective about that. So, yeah, really good. It's funny. You know, we talked last week, of course, about in terms of this, like, 2026 specter that's looming over the season. Yes. We talked, I talked, I brought up Better Calls-Lall, which is one of my favorite things to talk about.

Of course, Andor, you know, is another version of that where we know where those characters will go by the end of Andor. But of course, and I would say spoilers for loss, but it's been a really long time, this is a lost construction, the flash forward and lost. And so when you're watching Lost and you know certain characters do or do not make it off. the island in that stretch of the story or like what's going to happen to someone like Jack Shepard where you're like he's having these wins but you know that there's there are these losses coming for him like that tension that narrative tension and that that emotional sort of like devastation pre-devastation that's like waiting for you and so even every win for how Jordan feels like a loss because we're one step closer to 10 years from now you know lost as a comp and an influence

welcome always here on the house of our and for us I think to the balancing act then of giving us as viewers moments where we have foresight and awareness of something that the characters don't. Their fate. Dramatic irony. I mean, again, who knows? We got into Theory Corner a little bit last week. Like, who knows what we're actually seeing on that bleacher? But if that is what we're seeing.

But then you pair that dramatic irony with the fact that we, because this is an investigation, starts as the murder investigation. And now it's alien investigation. and the Manhunter investigation, just the benefactor, what other tech is here? Where we're learning, as you're tracking through these bits of the dispensing the lore

and the canon and the mythology, sometimes we're very much in tandem, like, you know, John saying to Anton, like, I actually don't know what you're talking about and we're like in a similar position or maybe if you're a comic book fan, as we'll talk about when we get there, you have more information that you're bringing.

But there are things that we don't know and maybe Hal has more information than we do. We still have this big thing hanging over of like the halogram and the alert. There's Hale and Rushville and this question of what led up inserted this place in the first place, which we get some little breadcrumbs. So there's this question over this episode of like, what does Hal know? It was really interesting. Yeah, really interesting on this front, I thought, to have the clear, I know I'm leaving a little bit in and out.

But like to have, when John told Hal about the Manhunters and Hal is like reacting, where did you hear that word, right? It's not like he's never heard of the manhunter's, but, so he knows something, something we as viewers don't. And yet he doesn't know everything because he has to go ask Sanestro. So this level of like moving in and out of time and then who has what level of insider awareness when, including us at home, that can just be like really hard to pull off in a way that feels disorienting. Yeah, steady. But so far it's working, I think, quite well. All right, so Howell's working the case? This might be me just being dumb, but like he's on the field.

Yeah. Largely, I know this is a pioneers team. Yes. We get the Pioneer's logo on the coach's jacket later at the town hall meeting, whatever. Like, it's pioneers. But there's also like a Bice, like a go bison sort of. I thought that was just the Kimball, the other team, because it says KB Bison. Oh, okay, okay.

So that was the other team. They had a, they had sign. Probably put up there, you know, they brought the cheerleaders. Some members of their band or something. Thank you for clarifying. That was my. I think they're still learning sports. All right.

So, how he like he does the whole gambit with the metal detectors that are on metal detectors. He drives through town. It looks all deserted. He turns off the car in the middle street and gets out and then he flies up to the ground. This flying looks so much better to me because they did not use a digital double. This is definitely Kyle Chandler on a crane somewhere. You know what I mean? Maybe literally on that street.

I don't know. but like, you know, they just sort of like launched him up. And also the later flying takeoff looked really well, really good because in darkest night, it looks better in darkest night than in brightest day. Sorry. It's just a fact in terms of digital doubles and flying. What does the veil mean to you? What does the oath mean to you?

I love this. This is so, this is so sci-fi and eerie, as will the empty hospital be later, right? Creepy. The fact that the entire town can just press pause on everything that happens. in the town to have a town meeting, that's some sci-fi. That's some Twilight Zone shit. Yes. It also, of course, is a little Dylan Texas is readying for the game, you know, because you see Coach Taylor, you drive it through it. It's like everyone's at the stadium. They're there for the Panthers game. But yeah, there was an eerie quality that carries

into the town hall meeting itself in terms of this large, on the who knows what question, this question of what level of awareness does anyone out? So there's the Macon Ranch militia, But what about the wider town? Because the like, were you talking about me? You were talking about me, the hush that falls over the room and how Jordan walks in. I think there's some fun, you know, speculating to do about what level of like this is going on in my town awareness anybody outside of a certain group has. I thought the, so the re-up of the ring and then immediately the falling, like, first of all, effective. It's just not going to last very long if you do the emergency power up, right?

two episodes in a row where the television show lanterns has shoved Kyle Chandler's perfect, beautiful face into either a brick wall at a bar or the gravelly asphalt. You object. It's my big note so far. I'll just telephone a lovely. All right. It's my big note so far. All right. You mentioned, were you talking about me?

I'm calling this section a very harried sheriff, Gary. We're at the town hall meeting. the charm offensive from Kyle Chandler. Oh, my God. So something I learned that I didn't know is that Alan Scott, who's the original Green Lantern, was designed after characters

from folklore mythology, Gil Kane designed Hal based on Paul Newman. So that's where we're starting. We're starting with Paul Newman, the twinkle in the eye, Paul Newman. Fun fact about John Stewart, 1971, John Stewart, based on Sidney Poitier.

Oh, man. Paul Newman and Sidney Poitier. That's the, film Paris Blues, which rules. And so that's just what Great Lantern says. It's just Paris Blues, but in comics. Genuine legends and icons. Yeah, the hottest men alive.

Yeah. So just something to think about. Oh, ma'am. The detectors here at the Town Hall, at the Legion Hall as well. More alien detectors. Billy Macon, Shirley at his father's behest, wants to come talk to Hal, urges him to go back to Coe City.

We will get that urging again from Macon Sr. Not to mention Sheriff Kerry. Yeah. Several listeners let us know that Melanie Linsky He has appeared on Matlock with her husband, Jason Ritter. Look at that. Good for them. That was something we were hoping for.

Apparently, it's already happened. They already thought about it. Will you be beginning your Matlock journey during season one of lanterns? No. After season one of lanterns. No. I have a lot of other things to watch. But I support the Matlock lovers out there.

I love when he says, chirping about vengeance. What a great phrase. Love that. Yeah. Really, really, really good. And then he says, you don't shoot people because of a gut feeling, talking about what Macon Senior and his militia do. So, like, how do they know it was aliens?

Which is such an interesting thing for him to say when he, like, talks so glowingly about his own gut to be like, you don't just go on gut alone and do something like this. And it's like, Hal's like, but my gut. But I would. Never wrong. Yeah. Because my gut is my gut. It's certain. Do as I say not as I do.

Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was the chirping about vengeance thing. Billy not replying to that. You know, we've talked a lot about what we can read and how, what we can read in John. But what are we reading in any member of this weird little town as well? Billy's response to that was interesting to track, certainly, how much is like, I know something that I'm not saying, how much is fear, right? For a young William Jr. there, that's just asking

junior, just a question. We're just asking questions. The dual response to, excuse me, honey, absolutely killed me. I was going to let you take it from here. It's just a, it's a gift. This is incredible. Again, this was, so funny, just as Hal saying, like, you know, yeah, I don't think I can keep quiet for that long. Really great. And then, of course, he gets the phone call from John and has to leave. But so what was your, okay, when, so because there was so much what seemed to be authentic kind of, maybe bonding is overstating it, but Carrie and Hal inside of the episode, you know, the later sequences. Sitting vigil at his bedside.

sitting by my bedside. Did you, I tried to freeze frame Mahoney my way in to see what she was reading and I could not figure it out. I'm like blind and as I told you, one of my eyelids is like half swollen shut. But yeah, I was, I thought you might have grabbed the title. She, so when they're talking, we can watch these episodes with subtitles. Notably, the murmurs, the chatter when Hal walks in. So it's the case on the screener, at least I'll say, I could check, I confirm this was the case on H. be a max too. I'll have to do that and report back next week. Whatever the townspeople are

murmuring. Ruritabia, Routabega, P's and carrots. Not subtitle. Don't want us to know exactly what they're saying in that little stretch there. So that's interesting. You could pick up on one line I caught. Why don't they go back where they're from? Now, the lanterns, certainly, because so much of this episode, as Hal is discussing in many scenes, is they want me to leave. It makes me think I should stay, right? And Makin just directly is like, get out of here. And as you noted, Carrie has like her maybe slightly more heartfelt version of that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But the fact that Sheriff Carrie in this scene, in a very onstage public setting, where, and she'll later say to Hal, very alicent High Tower to Otto High Tower, like when you cut, you know, when you undermine me at

that table full of men, right, like coded conversation here. But she throws to the coach. We were just talking about the game. And the coach is like, no, we weren't. Yeah. You know, it has to stand up. So she's participating in that fiction, even though later she will be more forthright with him. It seems, how many people in that room have a level of information about anything happening on the Macon ranch, the benefactor, anything else? Or the Macon's the only ones in possession of those facts? What does carry herself know? Great questions. Very curious. Great questions. On this sort of like, we know where this is going. I wanted to talk about that also in terms of the tragedy of this ship you have running, right?

Because like any step forward we make, any sort of like answering to Hun moment that we have in an episode, there's an air of tragedy because it's going to be Carrie looking at his dead body 10 years from now, you know. I just hope that they got 10 years of great sex in before that. We should all be so lucky. Our listener, Atharv, I believe is how you pronounce his name, was talking again about this idea of the 10-year dramatic irony. And they wrote, I also think it's extremely interesting to make a mentor-mente show about the lanterns in a universe where we already know neither is the green lantern in quote present day. Obviously, Guy Gardner is not in the show yet, not for long. But this is one of the better dramatic uses of a universe where we know that in 2016, Hal has the ring and John is his mentee. and yet in 2026,

Hal is dead, and somehow Guy got the ring, and that can't have been what anyone wanted. So how? Why? And Tom King on the official podcast last week

said, Guy Gardner has the ring. Right. Like, that's where Hal's missing ring, it's on Guy Gardner's finger. So, you know, we were like,

oh, there are multiple rings, blah, blah. At that point, Hal's ring, which is not on his frozen little thingies, it found Guy Gardner. Much like Nathan Phillyan, a very important part of my life

for a long time, crashing the conference. Coma Con panel. Yeah. You know? Guy Gardner came in there. And, you know, you had brought up guy, I'll call him guy. He brought up guy a couple times last pod and that question of, yeah, what would it mean?

Would it mean that something had changed about the core rule at that point? Well, here's my question. Or is he interfering? Perhaps did he abscond with the ring? Just, you know, something like that. But theory corner. Tell me. Because can, you know, this question of like,

There can be only one. Right. Let's say there's one ring designated to Earth. One ring. Uh-huh. Can John Stewart be the Green Lantern without a ring? Because of what we learned in this episode. If that is one of the interests of the show exploring that question.

Yeah. They are doing a good job of laying track for examining it. Just thought. There's this great write-up of this 1998 San Diego Comic-Con panel where John Broom, who wrote Hal Jordan for like basically the entirety of the 60s, who was given very few interviews in his life. Basically, he worked at D.C. for like the 1960s and then like left, tried to unionize at D.C. Didn't really work out. Kind of left.

And didn't give a ton of interviews. He hasn't talked about it. But he did this panel in 1998. And reading this write up was so cool because it was like all of these like comic greats came to like attend the panel. And like to hear him speak. Pay homage. Oh, I love it. To John Broome.

But he was talking about how in the 60s when they were doing these Green Lantern comics, that they would start with the cover. They would do the cover art. This is what he said. The cover sometimes provided the story in a sketchy kind of way. Then I'd work out some kind of understanding or explanation of the cover. The cover usually presented some kind of mystery. Something was happening. Someone was getting poisoned or frozen or killed or something like that.

So I just like this idea of like the Hal Jordan Death Tableau in 2026 being sort of this like, okay. that's what's going to happen. Now we need to figure out how we get there. It's the sort of challenge that the show gave itself in this sort of Green Lantern comic tradition, which I really like. Two and five Canadians will hear the words, you have cancer.

That's why every step and dollar raised matters. On September 19th, join thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation walk. Challenge yourself, friends, and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life saving research. Together, we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer. Register today at pmcf walk.ca.ca. Your summer travels deserve an upgrade. With select Chevrolet, Buick, GMC, and Cadillac vehicles connected by OnStar, you can stream, game, and more on the go. Whether

you're headed to a music festival or a cottage getaway, you can access hundreds of apps on Google Play right from your center display. Explore OnStar TechTic. today at OnStar.ca and discover how to take your summer to the next level. OnStar. Better never stops. When you buy furniture from Wayfair, you're not just getting furniture. You're setting your home up for a lifetime of memories. Visit Wayfair.ca. Today or download the Wayfair app. Furniture made for all of life's moments. That's Wayfair. Wayfair, every style, every home. Of corpses and mansions and supersuits. Yeah. I would divide. Like a lot of of times when we sort of lay out the notes, if Hal's doing something over here and John's doing

something over here, we'll take it in chunks. But these are so intermingled. We have to do it together. And this is where I... Is that not the lesson? Perhaps inside of the office. Lanturns. Blake Snyder's famous screenwriting book, Save the Cat, has this among the many lessons about how to hide exposition. One of my favorites is one called, um, Pope and the pool technique, which is originally from a script called The Plot to Kill the Pope, where the Pope is being, like, given details of his day, like, his secretaries are like,

these are all the things you have to do today, but the Pope is swimming while it's happening, and it is such, like, an unusual thing to see that you're just, like, distracted by it. And this is something that, like, the big short made great use of where they're like, here's Mogherovie in a bathtub, you know what I mean? Here's Anthony Bourdain. Like, here's how we're going to do this. A great, one of the primo examples of this is in Jurassic Park. when Mr. DNA is like on screen being like, I know DNA.

And we as an audience, you know, and the, you know, the characters are making fun of the thing they're watching. But we as an audience are against our will learning about DNA at the same time, you know. So it's like these various screenwriting tricks. So, well, John is finding out about the house, how empty it is, what that tells us about how seeing the suit for this first time, seeing the lantern for the first time. Meanwhile, Hal Jordan is dragging naked alien corpses around town. And so there's this, like, distracting comedy element, you know, physical comedy element that's telling a story about what Hal's doing. Right.

Corpstone. That is just sort of like injecting energy into this lore dump that we get of like, and also undercutting. You know, we get this like moment. And in the after episode, they showed a little clip of the making of the episode where they were like, and the director was instructing Aaron Pierre when he's holding the suit and for the mirror, he's like, really take a beat. This is something you've thought about your whole life.

Picture yourself in that. I wrote mirror of Aresed sort of like moment in our notes, right? And then the way the lantern is shot where the camera just gets all kind of like swooshy and swirly or the pocket dimension inside of the box. Like all this stuff is like extremely cool, big, important moments cut to hell with, you know, stuff in a corpse in and out of a trunk, you know? It's just like, that's such smart. storytelling that I really, really admire. It's hard to pick my favorite part of this episode

because it had a lot of scenes I really love. But I do think that this sequence was when I was like, we're cooking. We're really cooking. Do you think that that is why one of the framed Hal was celebs photos that we see that is on the ground but not hung is How with the Pope, a little bit of a wink, a little bit of a nod?

The Pope in the pool. Yeah. Do you think it's also why the Harry Potter castes? I mean, it's the sense with the mirror of air set, you know, and also the dimensions last, that was funny to think back then to the interrogation scene. It's like, they only made 22 of them, and I had to go to every premiere to take photos from them because I'm Hal Jordan and Earth's first Green Lantern.

Something I think about Pope Benedict's being here is really interesting. We'll talk a little bit later about some, like the Green Lantern. DC in general is always this sort of like gods and heroes kind of thing, and Green Lantern specifically in the sort of cosmology of that. But this idea of like, revealing superheroes, super's to earth. Yeah. And how you might need to sort of like go make the religious leaders of the world feel comfortable with your presence.

Reminds me a little bit, obviously different lens, but a little, reminds me a little bit of the Disclosure Day conversation, right, about how if people found out that we weren't alone and then in the universe, what role would people's faith have inside of that? We could see in this episode, we could see how with the Golden Trio and then we could see the, the Pope. In the inside the episode, you could see Hal with Obama. And then Hal with Bush. Yeah. Yeah? It takes all kinds. Oh, man. I think Hal post was Trump? Something we don't have to ask ourselves, maybe this early in 2016. Okay. So, potato with a smile or a frown if I left it upside down. That's great. Something, so Kyle Chandler says what we already know, he's a lonely character. We see this very empty house, right?

Hal Jordan historically kind of bad at romance in the comics, right? Carol is someone who's in love with the Green Lantern but has no time for Hal Jordan, one of those classic gambits. You know, we get to glimpse, obviously, lawn chair in the living room, TV, the same lawn chair that he's sitting with at the motel. So this guy loves a lawn chair that he could put a cold one in. But when we got to see the bedroom, you know, one of the thing's house says, John is like, you know, when I lived very years, I have a bed. So he has a nightstand. milk crates. No nightstand on the other side.

No second nightstand. Sad. So there's not a lot of company. It is sad, you know? Here's what, I read this great essay by Ritesh Babu on the website or blog shelf dust, perhaps. I just want to cite it. He says with Hal Jordan specifically, John Broome explored the question that emerged from that 60s hero, at what cost, at what price. Sure, Hale could save the universe every Tuesday, but he could.

never get his life right. He was always a mess. The will they won't they romance of the period and a subversive twist is given a definitive answer after a point as Carol moves on just when Hal prepares to commit and propose. I really like thinking about, you know, you mentioned already today the newsreel, the 60-minute footage that we get of Hal the pilot, you know, saying, well, when you've lost your parent, like what else is starting to fear. This idea that, this question of how now that he is Green Lantern, the way that he thinks about relationships, the way that he thinks about the potential risk to people he cares about, the potential cost of losing them, how much of that is something that has been informed and kind of like chipped into the marble

or chipped out of the marble of Hal Jordan in his stint as Lantern and Green Lantern, and how much of it is this like formative wound of like, well, you can't mourn and you can't mourn someone you never allowed yourself to love, you know? I'm saying inside of a show that Dame and Linda Lough worked on. Somebody has daddy issues that has impacted their ability to connect with other people. Christian, Shepard, is Matt? Do you? The tinkle of the ice and the glass?

Double daddy issues for both John and Hal. Something they could bond over. No question. Just talk about it. Suit time. This is what costume designer Cynthia Summers said in the post episode. He had many of them, the suits. They're fairly beat up.

It's about they're faded because the man himself is faded at this point in time. More crucially for you, perhaps Malia Rubin, we do see the suits. Yeah. In these pristine sort of garment bags. We see a tuxedo. We do. Yeah, bowtie and all. When are we going to see Hal Jordan in his tuxedo?

I guess when he gets back out to meet and famous people and go into premieres again, you know? Okay. We also see what looks like maybe like a really early. It seems to me, not Frays Farray Mahoney, but doing my best, a sort of like green leotard situation. I thought it was just a maybe tight sweater, a form-fitting sweater, but I love the idea that it might be a leotard. Well, there's like the domino mask is also like elsewhere in the thing. So I feel like this is for, if we're, if we're very good. Will we be rewarded?

Perhaps in 1986. Oh, my God. We will get to see 60-year-old Kyle Chandler stuffed into a green leotard and a domino mask. I can only hope. Dare to drive. but also it's the hope that kills you. You know, I mean, that would be, I don't know if I would survive, frankly. I really thought that this stretch, us seeing this through John's eyes, all of it, was just so smart.

The fact that Hal has been here eight years, but barely put any of his own possessions, he doesn't have a lot of things that he, maybe he's like, I don't need to be surrounded by a lot of, you know, stuff and I don't need to, like, have a lot of, like, merch and shit around me to feel like I have connection in the world couldn't be me. You know, he's able to function without that. But there's a note, I think, undeniably of just like, he

has not put down roots in this place. He has not put down a lot of things that have meaning to him because he's not allowing himself to. That was very sad. The most sort of, like, lived in space is the greenhouse where Earl is. No question. Earl is thriving.

Again, maybe perhaps being deprived of multiple meals, but he has a lush, robust space. I did notice, you know, like the bed looked comfortable. Maybe how Jordan, a hot sleeper, because it looked like, you know, it's like a nice, yeah, a top sheet and perhaps like a thin quilt, but not like a big comforter. I'm just, I'm just thinking about what our nights together would be like. But to the suit point, you know, you said like the pristine, kind of like back from the dry cleaner bags that a couple of them are in and there's the one that's out. What that tells us is basically what we already know, because Hal literally said it in the first

episode, she's just not wearing them. He's had no. He's had no. No reason, no compulsion to take them out of those bags, which is... Well, it's very interesting to me. I don't know, and maybe comics would tell me this, but I don't know what protect... Well, so, so... I mean, the point about a character like Green Lantern, which has existed for decades in the comics, is that the lore can change based on who's writing, right? So, like, so I was curious when Hal puts the ring on later on this episode and then takes the sling off.

Right. I was like, oh, does the ring always have regenerative properties? Sometimes. Sometimes, yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. So, like, in terms of putting that suit on at the end of the episode, we've seen him fly without the suit. Right.

Does it give him any kind of protection in space, or is it something he put on so that Sanestro could see him in the suit? That was, yeah. Yeah. Is this a performance for Sinestro or is this a practical, I need this so I don't freeze when I fly through various atmospheres or something like that? Yeah. I would prefer it be that performance. I think so because it's one of those things where like even if the suit does have that practical utility,

he could still just construct something with the ring so that if he didn't want to put the suit on, he wouldn't need it, but he chooses to put it on. So maybe there's a little bit of being pulled back on the daddy issue from being pulled back into that younger version of yourself. I'm going to go meet my fallen mentor and I need to be the hot shot I once was.

Yeah. Surprising and get out the just for men and sort of like go after the girlfriend. It's funny that you say that because there was something that I thought was different about the styling of his hair. Like it was just more quaffed. Yeah. Less rumpled and like, God, he just looked. Dude, the camera angle.

I was like, I need a moment. He just, it's insane. How am I supposed to concentrate on pod prep when Hal Jordan's standing there looking like that? Holy fuck. And on that front, by the way, you know, when John finds the box, finds the, what's in the box, finds the box? And Hal explains, you know, it's a pocket dimension, junior. Just feel around in there and you'll find it. Incidentally, that's what I'd like to say to Hal Jordan,

and I'm going to get one of those in there for you every week. That's my promise to you. You just want to save the social team time on making the quote cards, and you're like, you guys can just reuse that slide over and over again. Oh, my God. You're very special to me. Oh, God. Oh, and just the physical, to your point, too, about the ring.

Like, obviously, infamous 2011 film, you're using the ring to generate the suit. This is a physical, tactile, like, there's a thick, you know, they're the big kind of broad shoulder pads, but there's just like you could wear that into war. I just love that suit. I love that suit. And I've seen some people who like don't like it or really want John to have a different suit. And certainly like John's suit will be different from Hal's suit. That's the way these things go. Yeah. But I think that suit would look great on Aaron Pierre. And it made sense in the show's universe, the world that this show has built. It's a very like, well, I don't, I haven't. I haven't. found out if specifically they were going for this. But to me, it looks like as close to like a flyboy jacket as they could find. You know what I mean? There's just this sort of like leather sort of like broad shoulder to it.

I love that. I think you're right. That seems right. All right. The voice activation is Mogo doesn't socialize. Great stuff. Which is a comic reference to a Green Lantern Mogo who is a planet. Cannot come to the meetings because it's literally a planet.

We love a sentient planet. But what I think is interesting is that is an Alan Moore. story. Mogo doesn't socialize and Alan Moore, you know, obviously near and dear and weird to our hearts. I couldn't find a voice listed in the cast with a box dialogue, though deep in the closing credits, there's a Spanish language voice actor listed for Caja Dementional, which is dimensional box. So, but I was just like, is that a voice I should know? For both the sort of like ring nearly depleted voice, which is a male voice and then the female voice, the box.

Interesting. The box has a female voice? Sure does. Sure does. I really hope we get to see how Jordan spent some time. With the box? In that box. Rummaging around the box? Okay. Reach around and you'll find it. Anything you want to say about Earl that we haven't already.

Okay, here's... I asked you, but I just need to interject. Yeah, please. Tom King claims this is done practically with puppeteers. He said that at Sandy Ocomicon. in the closing credits, three people are credited as Earl Puppeteers. I love this. Jim Sharmats, Victor Broadly, Roderick, Cetorian. That looked so CG to me.

It wasn't mad. It didn't look bad. But that did not look like a practical effect to me. So until I see the behind the scenes, I believe that there were puppeteers on set and they, like, did all this, that, and the other thing. Then I believe they digitally painted over it. Okay. So. You need to learn about the Rocketeers.

You need to see the Grogo animatronic or puppeteering before you're convinced. Well, listen, you, this would make you a good green lantern. You're a skeptic. I will just. And you're going to go investigate. I will turn my microphone in. Don't do that. I need you.

If that is just a puppet. Lower the stakes. Okay. Lower the goddamn stakes we have podcasts to make. What I'm really excited about is that there's so many puppets and labyrinth which you get to see tonight. I can't really say for you to find out about it. I simply can't. Will I look at the puppets with the same reverence that John looks at the suit and the lantern

with? Maybe. What do you want to say about Earl that we haven't already? Just thought this was wonderful. You know, thought it was great. And I think it's very humanizing to know this about Hal that he has, Earl Jordan. And also, I did think it was very sweet that John goes from like, what the hell is this? Like, he's disgusted by the meat.

He's a vegan. All of it. The spoons are all torn up. that's don't eat my bird into like the little like the smirk the little kind of half smile and he just like fucking Jordan like he learned a lot about Hal not only with Earl but by moving through his home and on the one hand I'm inclined to say that Hal wouldn't have shown him or told him otherwise but on the other hand Hal sent him there now we get the other side the the darker underbelly of that later yeah which is like very racially coded yes but the fact that there is like this real

insight into who this person is, what does he care about? What is he not allowing himself to care about? It was just a really rich aspect in the stretch. And I hope that we get a lot of Earl. It certainly sound from the official pod, like we are not done with Earl. And I think that that is frankly appropriate and right. So according to the official pod, Damon named the, named him Earl. We haven't asked Damon yet. Why Earl? I'm happy to throw my guess out the window, which was it was named after the puppeteer Michael Earl who puppeteered. Audrey 2 from Little Shop of Horrors. It's very Audrey 2, Little Shop of Horrors,

coded this particular carnivorous plant. But I always love to honor the puppeteers. That's all. Okay. Can only be you. Will Earl eat a person slash alien slash manhunter before the season is through? Interesting. I don't know how much Earl can move.

Does Earl travel? Because what the best option would be is that Earl comes kind of out of nowhere to save John. or Hal from someone who's attacking him. But does that mean Earl can like hop in his little pot out the green, you know, because if they're fighting in the greenhouse, then we're like just waiting for Earl to like come and chomp someone, right? So it's going to have to happen elsewhere in order for it to feel like a surprise, you know? Yeah.

So maybe it maybe Hal will realize this isn't a, Earl's not going to get his calories. We've got to bring him to Rushville. Okay. It did say no vacancies at the motel. could we build Also it's cold there I don't know It said that they had HBO

At the motel They got that onto the sign In the bed They got a bunch of Harry Potter mentions And HBO on the sign Correct Synergy

So yeah Will Earl make it to Rushville Or will we be spending more time At the Jordan Mance I don't know Well we'll all go back to space Because that's where he's from

Right Oh Maybe that Mean Green Mother from outer space Nice Travis wrote in to say Do we think carnivorous plants have toe beans. And if so, what color are Earl's toe beans? I just want to shout out

the bad babies in Baltimore. There were multiple Vagar slash sunfire toe bean references. Signs are shirts and toe bags. The way you guys make merch based on something we said, and even something we said like kind of recently is delightful. And wonderful. All right. John and his bird get lantern napped. Where are we going? Where's my fucking bird, John says. First thought. Where's my bird? Man, he loves that bird and yet.

Anything you want to say that we haven't said about sort of like this fight? I just thought this was a great action sequence. You know, I was quite worried about the bird the whole time, which is obviously something we're supposed to be feeling. Of course, I'm also worried about John. I thought that the... So what this shows us, you already mentioned the, you know, how it heightens the immersion for Aaron Pierre to actually be doing this. so we get to really stay on him. The fighting inside of the van and then the way that spills out into the street,

this was just a really attention-grabbing and compelling action sequence that had the emotion rooted inside of it. It also, in a way that feels true to the intention of the show so far with how the comicky elements have been deployed, it gave us some of that entwined with the grounded version of the thing. When the pursuers need how to... half a step to reach the top of a car and then lurch forward, you just know, you don't have to stop to think. In the flow of the action, without having to really linger on it, you understand

that that is going to be an alien or superpower being of some sort. John gets, like, hit by a side swiped by a van in a way that he seems like more fine for a human. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. We're knocked out cold for a bit, but then fairly pretty much okay after that. I don't know what Anton's crew, Anton and his crew, what their like CTE and, you know, concussion protocol is right there. You mentioned Hal taking off the sling later and the fact that that, you know, sparked you to look into like the healing

healing factor of the ring. There's also just the like, how tough do the guys need to front that they can be in any moment? Like Hal just being like, well, I'm going to take this sling off and stand up and you know things I don't. And I'm, oh, performance. Yeah, like I'm not going to sit here and firm in front of you. On that front, John, like, running fearlessly into traffic. Yeah.

You know, so on this idea of fearlessness, this is, this is, our listener, Rogue, cool. Shout out. Rogue. Is it Indy never ready? Who's to say? Rode into say, when hearing you guys talk about the quote, emotional absolutism that the show is indicating this first episode, it made me think about the father's son fear training scene. Do you guys think that the father shooting the afl off of John's head actually instills

less teaches a lack of fear or just teaches John to perform a lack of fear so that he can receive physical acts of love from his father. It made me so sad to think about. I'll suspect we'll find out. Yeah, really sad. James Haas, a EP, inside the episode said there was an almost religious serenity to John because of his marine training, which I thought was really interesting. So just like watching him just like, again, run into traffic and just being like focused.

He's got the bag. He's got the suit. he's got the lantern and he's after his bird, you know, and he's going to escape these. He's not going to escape. But, like, you know, he got close. Yeah, the duffel reaching, going in the other direction, just for a few pieces, but to grab the duffel was a good bit of shorthand for like there's a practical, I am in peril and I will fight to survive. But also this is a mission. Yeah.

The task-oriented nature of the pursuit there. All right. Carrie and Hal team up. It's your dream come true. What do you want to say about this, her pulling him over and what happens next? Is this about me not being on the insurance hysterical? Absolutely hysterical. You shushed me?

You're killing me? Oh my God. I was going to tell me you shushed me. Boy, you know, I'd like to see these two fuck at some point. I don't mind saying it. Your marriage is unsmooth. Your marriage is unsmuth. You mentioned the kid, like, caught with a hand in the cookie jar.

I've been found out quality to this. This was also a very boyish. You know, we're talking about the who. is Hal allowing it to his life or not. But there is something very authentic here. Like, he has a, there's a draw. There's a pull. There are some yearning tendrils here, right?

I've seen a lot of theories, which I think are deeply incorrect. Oh, interesting. That Hal and Carrie have, like, a history of some kind. I feel like there's no, I think it's just based on some lines on episode one, which is like, I can't do this again. And what she means is, like, explain why the lanterns don't have jury. jurisdiction here to John, you know what I mean? But I think some people interpreted that as like, I can't do this with Hal again,

who I have a history. I mean, she has to like tell him she's from Gotham. Like they don't know each other. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They decided to go to the compound. It goes great. Carrie asked to do the talking hell grudgingly agrees, but then surprise as soon as they meet Ben.

Ellie Ben. Ellie Ben? Ali Ben. Ali Ben killed me. You're the best. Ellie Ben. At the gate, how starts yapping? He does what he wants.

He'll say. But just to like, let me do the talking, you know, just not understood how Jordan made into being bossed around just for a minute. What do you think? Yes. I think so. Then he says Calvary. Cavalry. Wow, I can't say that word very well.

He says, cavalry just in the nick of time. And then Cavalry is a lot faster in the movies. Issterical. Is it a great punch up in a script. Just really funny. It's hysterical. Really, really funny. And Macon Cedar rise up and says she'll like, and yet you linger.

Very like, very Gary Dillan, Deadwood, and yet you linger, you know? Of course, famously in Deadwood more than once. Yes. Double Dillan and Deadwood. Double Dillon. He's delightful so far in this role. No surprise, obviously. You know, I said last week that the Macon Ranch stretch was the most kind of shared and coded.

tuffs ride up on their horses while you're a foot and they're a horse. A horse. A foot. Just wonderful. And Macon, and this is another character now in a different way because he's not a lantern. But we can ask this question. He talks about his reverence for the lanterns. You know, I'm a fan of your work. I'm a fan of your work.

Yeah. He, at least it seems this way, isn't intimidated for a second by Hal Jordan in this scene. Not a second. Do you think he knows that the ring is out of juice? Do you think he has cameras around that saw Hal fall out of the sky? It's possible that there's some actual, yeah, CCTV monitoring. That seems plausible, right? He's got these detectors all over town.

Or his question of just what other tech is there. Yeah, his tech is so advanced that even if Hal did create a green bubble around him or something like that, he'd be like, p. I think that's in play. There's also just the fact that Waylon at the interrogation scene last episode was like, okay, but like, How much starch do you have left that making certainly a scholar student of history study the past would know? He's read the transcript. Yeah, that Hal is maybe not powered up. But then also just the fact that he has the backing of this mysterious benefactor that is just so fun for Theory Corner,

he has a reason that he doesn't think he needs to be afraid of the lanterns. So that's interesting. Howell says, oh boy, am I about to be threatened? So good. But my favorite haleline here was, I don't want to disparage your small little town. Really good. Really, really good.

Macon Sr. once again, mentions the settlers colonizing the natives. And as we explore these themes of like fear and security, because later when Zoe's talking to John in the diner, she mentions this idea of security. It feels safe to be around someone like Macon, senior, something like that. Right.

Especially the way that this show is hoping to reflect, like the America we live in, perhaps, especially in 2016 or not. Should we talk about this idea of fear mongering around immigration and what freedoms people are willing to give up in order to feel, quote, unquote, safe? Yeah, I mean, we talked about this a bit last week with the conversation that they had when Macon was grilling and the way that he is trying to seek common ground with Hal through that framing and Hal's like. But so, like, Macon's senior feeling fear around sort of being colonized, if he's thinking galactically colonized, something like that. Yeah. And who has put that?

a seed of fear inside of him, but also him repeating that line any chance he gets as part of pushing that agenda for the whole town. You should be afraid of this alien threat. And I at the Macon Ranch have special tech. So don't you really feel like you should just let me run, tell you what to do? Because I can make you safe if you give your freedom up to me. Yeah, which is harrowing, of course. And then we have Carrie a couple times in this episode, you know, the thing that Carrie says to Hal about, when you do things like this, it just reinforces the idea that he's the real seat of power. And that's obviously something that the show through a couple episodes has trains us to think is bad. And it doesn't even need to train us to think is bad because we hear him say things like what you're identifying.

And you're like, no, no, no, no, right? So there's that. There's the like, just the question of like, so when Hal is talking about the technology, right? I went in a small, small little town. I don't think I've ever seen technology quite this sophisticated. So there's like the question of just what depth of... He's been to space. Yeah.

We see him go to a space jail later and he's like, what's all this? Exactly. So there's a scope and scale to what is happening here that is intriguing. But then another thing that Carrie said that, you know, directly invoking the bird insurrection, right? Like, I was going to try to like disinterrecting in this town. I think it's very personal. purposeful language on the show's behalf to frame it through that lens of modern day political fearmongering. No question. No question. Just like there's no question that Hal is a fan of movies because obviously we got the Potter stuff with Waylon last week and then he says here, tell me the truth. Is he even real the benefactor? Or is this some Kaiser-Sose situation? Great stuff from hell. Yeah. No deep cuts. These are the these are the these are the hits. The play of a hits. Yeah, he likes a busy man, you know, so he does do. And again, I'm not inside the writer's room. room. So I don't know exactly who pitched this particular note. But the idea to call out specifically

the Marlboro Man, that feels Linda Luffy to me, but I could be wrong. But this idea that Wayne McLaren, several Marvel men, I think, died of lung cancer. But specifically Wayne McLaren, when he got diagnosed with lung cancer, like went on a campaign of education about the dangers of smoking. You know what I mean? And so when he says this thing about signing an NDA and he's like, even the Marlboro Man, you know, like told the truth. Right. When push comes to shove, NDA be damned. So I thought that was a really great interaction. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Castle Doctrine, which is something that I learned about this year between Widows Bay and Cape Fear, it keeps coming up. This idea of like, stand your ground is one thing, but Castle Doctrine is another. And it's just sort of like when he's like, he shot me and Kerry's like, yeah, you were on his property. And in real time in that scene when Hal's like, you can't do that. Can he do that? Yeah, he can do that. Yeah, it seems unneighborly. Amazing.

Also, you know, on the sniper front, obviously it sets up the exchange with Hal and John later, right? Oh, yeah, it says, you know, like a sniper, like one of your snipers doing, oh, John knows exactly what it is, exactly what the move is, your famous work. The fact that, like, I like the discussion that we just had identifying the possibility that Macon knows the ring could not be activated there. And so then that maybe makes what I'm about to say moot. But like, it kind of felt to me like even if he didn't know that about the ring, he felt that he had the edge. And they kind of do get the jump on Hal. Like the timing.

Hal couldn't even pretend to really. He gets half the sentence out. He couldn't even finish the cosplay theater of I'm going to just make a shield and block this shot before he's. They call his bluff. Yeah. Yeah, pierced cold. So, I don't know, Macon's level,

the assured way in which Macon navigated that encounter was very, very telling. All right, of Manhunters and Red Lanterns, question mark? Intriguing.

Okay. I already mentioned sort of like how well I thought this scene was executed in terms of like the lore dump with all of the distractions. There's the device, there's the bird,

but there's also the fun, though I think not as funny as I think the show thinks it is, device of Anton's Slipper grasp with the English language. That didn't land super well for me in this scene either, but mostly because I think of, not as a concept that isn't working, but, because like I, you know, the, the, um, uh, I see human isn't your first language.

Yeah. I liked that and I like the idea of this, but I'm just kind of like, I don't know, like proximity actually does make sense in that context. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, it wasn't quite working for me. Yeah.

But I'm willing to see if it works better in other episodes. Um, this is where John finds out how impressive. the bird creation is. Yes. And I'm, this will drive a wedge between John and Hal. This is like the, almost the ingriest we see John at Hal being like, surely you would have given me at least a hurrah. You know what I mean?

Like his absolute boiling resentment at Hal not giving him his flowers when he deserves it or whatever for a job well done. Yes. Was that something that Anton like intentionally planted? to drive a wedge? Or was he just sort of like, because he was asking questions? I feel like he didn't know. But like, was this an intentional wedge driven or just sort of like, I'm just asking questions?

Right. Because he initially is like, how does how I'll continue to project it from such a great distance? He's not projecting it. I am, you're not wearing a ring? The shock of it. Yeah, it's interesting. Manhunter Exposition. You think the Green Lantern came first?

You really don't know. Synthetic and take the form of any species and embed undetected. Oh, uh-oh. Dun, dun, dun. He says, Anton says, we don't know

where the Manhiders came from. Comic creators do. We'll talk about this a little bit more in the comic section. We sort of debated whether or not we should talk

about this here, but we're like, listen. Kind of an abundance of caution. The characters don't know, so we feel like maybe we shouldn't talk about it. Do you want to do

leading Manhunter theories here, given what Anton shares or later? Do you want to do it here? I mean, it just feels like everyone in the Macon family

is the leading contender at this point, right? And the show is making, Macon proper, such an obvious candidate, like, with the, the, Osses-Sosé situation. We got so many emails about Zoe that that seems to be the number one guest from listeners. I think most people

watching the show were, like, Macon's too obvious. Even Carrie is, like, too obvious. I think, so, I think there are a number of times, like, if the benefactor and the Manhunter are the same person. Right. Right. he was used for benefactor and he was used for Manhunter in a way that makes me feel like that's a misdirect off of a female character. So I would take,

I would take Sheriff Kerry. Yeah, sure. But Zoe seems to be the number one. And the way that Zoe shows up at the coffee shop and is like, oh, small town bound to happen. Small town. Right. Want to go back to the truck? I think Billy, also a contender and young Noah.

Oh, yeah. That would be really fun. The whole family. Everybody in that family unit. A kid. Well, and what you were identifying last week about, like, what exactly are the relationships between these people? Like, how did Carrie and Billy become married? I know the answer to this. Can a manhunter make another manhunter? Yes. So, like, are Billy and Noah? I think so. Yeah. Like, made. You know? And if so, will the Manhunters get an endorsement deal with Aviator Nation?

That's a great question. You're always asking the right question. Could be the high school football. coach could be the judge. It's got to be someone we've met already. Yeah, but I just feel like the judge and the high school football coach is not. Yeah. Yeah. We would need a little bit more. Malicia Ben. Oh, Ben. Ailey Ben. It could be Ben. All right. Our listener Jordan says, again, we'll address this a little bit more in comic reader corner. But Jordan says, if anyone wants to know a bit more about Manhunters, the fourth and fifth episodes of Justice League cover it pretty well. And if someone wants to know more about lanterns and how Jordan Green Lantern The Animated Series is one of the greatest one season

shows of all time, 26 episodes of pure will, power, and heart. So a nice endorsement from Jordan. No free ads, but an ad from Jordan for these shows. Okay. We already mentioned that have you ever been deceived by someone you love and John indicating he has? And I'm just excited to find out about that. And just the quiet, not that he would go into a long detailed story

with his captor, but like, yeah. There's a heaviness behind the quiet, the quiet, yeah, there. I can't wait to learn more. Anton is a show original character, but there is a character in the comics. I've seen it pronounced a couple different ways. I would pronounce it atrocitus. Hell yeah. That's what I would say.

I've seen atrocitus, but I think it's atrocitous. Can that be my new nickname? Atrocitus? Mallory Atrocitus, Rubin. Instead of saying calamity, should I start saying atrocity? Yeah, sure. Let's give it a try, see how it feels. Orce.

In the comics, Atrocitus too, after the decimation of his people, by and hunters forms the red lantern. Don, don't, don't. Lanterns, red lantern core. So let me think about. Okay, I'm intrigued. John Stewart gets, well, also, like, what color was the, you're about to talk about the...

It was orange. Was it orange? Was it yellow? Because I had a yellow and red together to make orange, but it was orangey. A little anger. Yeah, a little fear of a little anger. It did look orange, but it is fun because it definitely looked orange,

but it's fun because it's lanterns to be like, Is it actually yellow? It's actually red. It was orange. John Stewart gets Bix cleaned. I wrote down Bix, of course, and then also now, because it's Odyssey Summer, wrote down Odysseus, you know, the siren song. We don't hear it, we don't see it. We are just conveying, we are, it is the torment of what is happening.

But Bixier, it's for sure Bix. Bixier in terms of like, come enjoy this genocide in your ears. It's going to make every orifice on your face leak because it's just a complete format. He's drooling. His eyes are rolled back. He looks deviant. The same course, the most broken we've seen the very stalwart, John Stewart. And what will the lasting impact of this experience be? Because there's the practical, like,

you've got the 48 hours looking for the Manhunter, learning about the Manhunter's. But what is now literally embedded into his brain, someone else's trauma that John is carrying, yeah, the stamp imprint language. But are there any sort of like Manchurian candidate, like, I can activate you sort of thing? I mean, it's, it's skis. to think about. They drilled something into his brain, right? So like that feels like something we should consider. The effects of our collective loss will remain with you for some time. Not ideal. So fun fact, Manhunter's can be killed as humans in their human form. Good to know. This is a pretty important. Our listener needed to read in and say, because they made a big deal about

the vulnerability of the Manhunter while in human form, as well as the Manhunter's ability to be anyone, this makes me wonder if the Hal Jordan with a bullet in his head at the end of pilot is going to turn out to be the Manhunter, having taken Hal's form. And then is Hal just like on vacation with Earl? He's still in that ruffled bed waiting for you. With me. That's where Hal is. We're together.

There's a second nightstand now. I was about to say you're like... It's full of all sorts of things, folks. I would say aim high. If you're going to start in this relationship with Hal, please demand your own stacked milk crates. We need some drawers. Yeah.

For all your devices. We need some drawers in our nightstands. Sheriff Kerry. Or maybe we don't. If he still is the ring. What can't a lantern make? Wow. The mind is racing. Something for Sheriff Carrie to think about. Sheriff Kerry's very wary. Howe wakes up and Carrie waste very little time. What's with Sinestro? Let me say this about you. Week over week, you've gone from I don't like Sheriff Carrie to really leaning in in the section headers. It's helping me. I really don't like it. So I'm just trying to like accept it. Oh, man. What's with Sinestro?

Yeah. Hal is immediately hackles up about this, but apparently he's so Sinestro preoccupied. He was saying his name in his sleep. Can Sinestro invade his mind while he's dreaming? Something to think about. I don't know. I like, that's, ooh, that would be upsetting. I like the idea that Hal, who is Mr.

Once you've lost a parent, there's nothing to fear. I don't need anyone. Shoot him in the shoulder. Give him a little anesthesia. Maybe those details led to this. Maybe it's just give him a few hours to sleep. It's calling out your name. Mallory.

Yes, hell. You know, the idea that the fears surface in the night, right? That he is not able to fend off to keep at bay to suppress and repress these horrible things that he actually shouts them out when he doesn't have that suppressing element of consciousness in an awaking state. You know what I really wish they had had one of those classic, I forget, I feel like I'm quoting something directly, but if she had been like, do you usually talk in his sleep? And he would have been like, it's been a while since anyone's been in a position to tell me. me, you know, one of those moments? That would have been wonderful. Actually, though, it did actually, that it did make me think like, oh, maybe someone hasn't told

him that since whatever happened with Senestro, right? Like, he hasn't fallen asleep in front of anyone. He doesn't do sleepovers. Yeah, he's a fucking go guy. No, like, not fucking go. Come here. Fuck, get out. Sheriff Kerry pulls up the DC fandom Wiki for a sprightly bit of exposition.

She says, Sinestro, he was a lantern, attempted a coup, killed one of the body. You were the one who took him down. And Howell says, I don't talk about that. Again, from a screenwriting point of view, a screenwriting exposition point of view, this makes us want to know. This is something that Aaron Sorkin does a lot, which is he hides exposition inside of conflict. People are like at odds with each other about something.

And so they're sort of like yelling information at each other in a way that helps us learn about it. And so for her to be like, tell me about Sinestro. He's like, no, you don't get to have this information. And then she's like, too bad I know how to read the internet. Here's the information. Then we're eager to hear the information that Hal wants to keep hidden. Very.

Yeah. And also to like the thing we were discussing earlier about the public life being in the public eye, this idea that this thing that Hal doesn't want to have to acknowledge and face and think about, let alone discuss with a relative stranger who he definitely wants to fuck. But like all she has to do is Google at once. And there it is, the affairs of his life. that maybe his version of like, you know, the have you been deceived by someone you love?

Yeah, this deep wound is something that everybody else is just like a tweet away from learning about, even though he wants to keep it private. It's a very vulnerable position to be in. Very tough. All right.

You already mentioned Thomas William Osborne, something I had to Google, but I did Google. I really love that you're going with Thomas William. Great stuff. Is that wrong? No, it's just Tom Osborne. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah. One of the best coaches in college football history. I wonder how many Nebraska Cornhuskers football nuggets will be sprinkled in here. He's also... A congressman, right? A congressman, right? Yeah, representative.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. When you're talking about this idea that Carrie was like, you're undermining my authority. He seems like genuinely contrived, like actually genuinely contrived about it. Uncharacteristically. Different version of, but like we were saying, it's important to show us he's competent.

Yeah. It's important. How's a dick, but he can't be a dick. Yeah. You know? Like, there's a difference. to actually feel like there has to be a real genuine recognition and acknowledgement that that's a shitty way to make her feel and that him coming in with his ravito and undermining everything she's worked years to establish is kind of fucked up yeah will he continue to behave that way i don't know we'll find out but like the fact that in real time he's like that's not cool you're right i'm sorry important yeah i wouldn't i wouldn't bank on him behaving that way all the time but sometimes he'll have his moments um he's the only patient there

she says she's from Gotham. Move there on a whim. He says sounds like a story. Yes. So is that, that's a Gotham accent that she's doing? Is that what that is? I mean, it's not.

It's not. It's not! Her last name is Kane. There are famous canes from Gotham, Kate Kane, something like that. We also heard her on the phone last week say how to Babs for me. That's right.

So was she speaking to? That would be great. Jim Gordon. That would be great. Great. Love that. Where are all the patients? Half the equipment looks like it was just taken out of the crate. What goes on here?

We've read this sci-fi novel before. There's a couple versions of this sci-fi novel. Childhood's End is one that I was thinking about. Arthur C. Clark. But yeah, aliens come and everything's great. Nobody gets hurt. Nobody ages. Right.

Nobody whatever. Everyone's healthy. At what cost? At what price? For what reason? And again, this scene, this later scene was part of why then thinking back to that town hall meeting. I'm like, well, what? Is everyone just like, this is life and they have no level of awareness and only the Makedz have some level awareness? And everyone else is just like, get the lanterns out of here.

So they stop like kind of interfering with the daily flow of our life. Or are people in Rushville like, we don't need to go to the hospital apparently? No one. The stuff isn't plastic crap. They're not asking questions because it doesn't. like serve them to ask questions. Yeah, right. And then, you know, frankly, like last episode of this show, when John was assessing the scene

at the shooting, one of the things he said was like, and it's Nebraska. So like everyone's carrying. So then when Carrie in this sequence with Hal is like, well, they're all smart enough not to get shot. And obviously there's just some ribbing going on there, but it's kind of like, no. Actually, that's not this town and the flow of life in this town. So that's all interesting. I thought the Walhow, before he was signing out,

and there was no one else on the sign out sheet when he was still in bed, the little, like, they both have a version of the, can I ask you something, right? And, you know, he's got the, it does make a guy wonder, she spins it back with it does make a girl wonder, delightful flirting. It's just wonderful stuff. But, you know, why did you fight me on jurisdiction if you knew they were alien? there's that. The, this is when she provides that I didn't want Billy's dad

insurrecting the shit out of everyone and getting them all paranoid about invasion. But like in order to be able to do that, what level of paranoia has already been fostered to your point from earlier? It makes me, because we're on Manhunter watch now, so it's like on the theory corner front, what is the Manhunter's plan to use William Macon to run the, the militia as defense, but also rally the troops of the town to fend off any aliens who are seeking to find the manhunter? Is it just hiding?

Right. Or is there like a plotting? Is it just concealment or is there like an, like, defense or is it a building an offense? Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And that's something you say in football. Look at you.

Okay. Look at you. Trust is running very thin in Russian Nebraska, which I wrote before I knew what the title this episode was. There's hail, but very little trust. Um, hail in. There's hail in. And it sounds just like alien.

Okay. John just happens to run into Zoe and he gets back into town to clarify that she's not an open marriage. Wait, did she clarify that? Was that your... She says, you've met my husband. Yeah. Yeah. But he seems traditional.

Oh, but then she's like, and when I need a break, I go take it. So that made me think it is an open marriage and that they have an understanding that, like, that they're she's like I do love my husband and I have a life but like if I we have an understanding that when I want to go fuck other people I will okay so what she says he says I mean is your relationship unconventional she says you've met my husband right and he says mm-hmm and she says yeah what do you think and he says respectfully I think he's pretty fucking weird yeah that he is deeply so yeah I think he's pretty fucking weird but you're not and so yes to your point I don't know Garrett Dillahan is just playing such a like,

Macon Senior of the Macon Ranch, and I make my ribs. And like, what about that guy reads as I'm in an open marriage with my wife? The fact that he knows she's fucking other people. But like, is he okay with it? Or does he just have to do what she wants to do because she gets to do what she wants to do?

I think there, it seems to me that their understanding is that she can have sex with other people. That doesn't mean he likes that as her happy or is happy about it, right? I think that's fair, and I think that makes sense. But I also think, have you met my husband, feels real like he's a traditional. Sure. Yeah. Marble a man kind of guy.

No question. Okay. She tries to bomb with John as one of just a few non-white people in Rushville, right? White men with money, they can do whatever the fuck they want, play cowboy, build castles. She says she likes a security that he can provide. I also like that he could have brought some blonde bin. blonde bimbo from Texas to be his arm candy, but he wanted me. Yeah.

No, I'm with my husband because I love him. I know it loves me. Hey, how's your white man? How's your white man? Incredible. Really good stuff. He sent me to fetch his things. Again, that sort of racially coded language here.

Man. And then you already mentioned this. You have to ask a question. You already know the answer. That, to me, feels like a deliberate wedge-driven between John and Hal. Yes. So he drives John back to the motel where Hal is wearing a sling. He won't need in just a second.

And he just says, nope. Don't to fend off any questions, any comments about Zoe. Though he does make, he says, your girlfriend. You know what I mean? Like, he finds his way to make his comments. Your girlfriend's husband. Yeah, but I just like that he says, nope, don't, you know, like, let's not even start here. Let's talk about the code.

Okay. Powers of the ring. He mutters, he races through and mutters the code. So as a follow-up to our conversation last week about what the, what Whaling the alien. you know, reciting the code, why he got so agitated about it. Yes. How does his, the way he recites the code here, like, inform your interpretation of that? I think just like the discussion we had last week, it still feels kind of open to interpretation.

I think I have my read on it, but I'm like willing and waiting to see exactly where it goes. I think it felt very interesting that it's immediately on the, so John tosses Hal the duffel. The lantern's in there, but Hal discovers his suit. And he's like, I told you not to bring this. And then John says, yeah, well, maybe I couldn't bring myself to disrespect it right on the heels of that. Immediately on the heels of that, Hal has to push the ring into the lantern to power up. And it felt to me like the speed with which he did it, right, hurrying through this kind of holy ritual, this sacred thing. Yada, yada, yada, yada, yada, yada.

Yeah. The whispered, you could interpret it as him being almost like, Mr. Now I'm in the era of like cowboy boots and jeans and I don't need to wear the tie because I'm not trying to impress anyone, almost like embarrassed by it a little bit by having to do it in front of someone, or as it being still, despite his evolving over time and altered relationship with what it means to be a lantern, the thing. So John saying that thing about the suit is right before it. The thing that's right after this is him going to see Sinestro. So those are like the bookends, the sandwich of this moment, complicated relationship to, well, who trained him to be a lantern.

what happened to that person, right? So, like, obviously just massive lanterns lore in terms of Sinesha and their relationship. Yeah. I think there's just, like, this is still a holy thing, but I have a complicated relationship to it. And also, it's not something that it's private. It's a private thing, my relationship to this. Yeah. I don't know. I can see that interpret. I really can. I agree with you. I can see it both ways. I think I'm leaning for some reason in, like, it doesn't, he's embarrassed that he has to say it because he doesn't really believe it anymore. But it, but it's a means to an end. And it gets

the juice in the ring that he needs. You know what I mean? And then the question is, will his journey be rediscovering the meaning of that? Yeah, like a deeper connection to that if this is the place that he is or no. Like, is it a journey just to further descent

into like not feeling connected to that oath anymore? And then if the oath is something that you feel a distance from, that wedge, but it's necessary. constantly for you to say it, for you to think about it, for you to be reminded and not only what it's supposed to represent a mean, but maybe what it did actually once mean to you,

Hal Jordan, and you don't feel it anymore, then that's a kind of gnarly space to be in. So I think that that, to me, actually, these are not either oars. They're the same because it's like if it was a sacred, holy thing and now it isn't, or that has been like compromised and befowled in some way, wouldn't the fact that you once felt that way about it make that an even more dangerous and difficult place to be and like space to inhabit? Interesting.

I mean, we've talked about a lot of this already in terms of their back and forth. Did the guardians hide a manhunter in Nebraska? Amnestyra must have brought him here and the manhunter killed him. Is that what happened? So what Anton said was the lantern took the monster into his custody

and guaranteed he'd be executed why I do not know. So that's where Hal goes. Is it that? Is this the connection? But he's just like, Hal's just so certain what happened. Because he's been, as we understand it,

from the premiere, spending decades trying to figure out why did it happen sort of crash here in the first place? Like why here, when we're this backwater that the lantern, core and the guardians, we weren't on the map.

We weren't on the plan. Yeah. So like maybe that possibility helps fill in a, a blank that he's been trying to fill in. I don't mind it as a possibility as a theory. I feel like he says it with like more certainty than I like to hold my theories. I agree.

And then the question is like, well, okay, if that's not that, was Finestro involved in some way? Was Abensur, did he crash on Earth because he was pursuing whoever took? Maybe it wasn't him, but he was after whoever did this thing? So something that Chris Mundy said on the official podcast using a phrase. I learned from you, which is Coaching Tree, was so I feel like I can say this outside the spoiler section, is that Avencer, trains Sanestro. Senestro trains Hal Jordan. Howl Jordan trains John Stewart. So that's the sort of like mentor-mente chain that has existed over time. Yes. When John, when, when Hal looks so fearful about John reporting the Manhunter to the Guardians, that's how I chose to interpret that. Like, have you told the guardians about this, right? That seems to me to be another. fear response. I don't know. I'm just thinking, I'm just thinking about John Broom writing Hal Jordan in the 1960s while also trying to unionize and how he felt like a threat to the authority.

Like his, that comic creator's relationship with authority at D.C. and how he was this sort of like, to a certain degree, persona non grata rabble rouser inside of this authoritative system that he worked inside of and I'm just sort of like, and also tried to unionize, tried to get the other like writers and artists along with him and then like they got offered like a smidge more money and abandoned him. And so just sort of like, Howell's relationship with the Guardians, how's relationship with the other lanterns, which is something you raised last week. Just sort of like, where is this guy in the larger ecosystem of the Guardians and lanterns? Well, and again, I think it's like, it's interesting what, through the lens of Howell's relationship to the Guardians and theirs to him,

But also in terms of what Hal is worried about John's relationship to the Guardians being. Because that's a threat. Yeah. So it feels like it's all present there. I agree. All right. Enter Sinestro. Yes.

Hal puts a suit on, flies up into space. Again, looks a lot better in the darkest, darkest night. Space prison. Sinestro. All these funky camera angles as he walks through here. Hannibal Lecter vibes. Palpatine Mall vibes. David Lindelof said an interview with Entertainment Weekly Loki

vibes, you know, et cetera, et cetera. Sinestro is Lucifer. Okay, so this is, from that shelf dust post by Ritesh Babu, talking about the religiosity of the lantern dynamic. He says, Oa, which is where the guard, Oas is in essence heaven, while the guardians are the gods, with the green lanterns being the angels. Sanestro, the eternal traitor, is, of course, the devil, or a mild tone. and Lucifer. Cast off in punishment, two, you guessed it, quay word of the antimatter universe,

a.k. Hell. It's why the Green Lantern Ring in this era is a literal wishing ring. It can do anything. It can create life, rewrite minds, manifest storms of steel spheres. You name it. It can do it. The imagination was the limit. Green Lantern was a hero blessed with divine cosmic power, which is also why his lamp was frequently referred to as a mystic lamp. The whole enterprise was magical in nature, a supernatural phenomenon, swimming in religious subtext, which is Moie Linda Lofy At the end of the day here. Hal in the comics invokes the name of the guardians

as the way that people invoke the name of God or Jesus. He'll say great guardians, you know, sort of like as his exclamation. But I was thinking about, okay, I was thinking about all that. Miltonian, Lucifer, great, Loki, great, we love it. Hannibal Lecter, they've all sort of referenced him as a Hannibal Lecter comp.

Where's Miggs? Ben Linus. I mean. Ben Linuson lost. And the way in which... Our favorite. The way in which John Locke will like come back to him. Yes.

For answers. And the way that Ben has this resentment towards Jacob and, you know, the essential, the guardians of the island. And the way in which like Ben is always manipulating and working every angle and finding every weakness and just sort of exploiting it. Yeah. And so just like the way that Michael Emerson is Ben Linus, we agree, one of the greatest. characters of all time in television asks questions and just plants seeds of doubt and fear inside,

you know, and just gets, wriggles his way out of captivity in prison constantly on that show. So to think about Sinestro here, you know, if one still existed, it would be the second greatest threat that existed. Why don't you tell me about John Stewart? Just an amazing I note for the episode. Incredible. I'm so excited for this character, this depiction of this character, this archetype in general, and what he can do to our guy, Hal Jordan, who is, Hal Jordan is to a certain degree kind of an antagonist in this show to our hero, John Stewart. So to give our antagonist a deeper antagonist, a charming, charismatic one at that is an incredibly

exciting storytelling. I also think that the folks over at Asoka, a show that we hope will. We'll be good in season two. We'll find out. Yeah. Could learn something about face pain from this. The pink shade is immaculate. Look great.

Look great. Kyle Chandler to Entertainment Weekly, the more and more we did it, I found myself feeling more respect, that mentor student thing because he gave me what I have, like him or not, there was almost like a father figure sitting in front of me. Daddy issues. You love to see it. All right. Anything else you want to say about this?

I don't think so. Human condition. I can't wait for... Pretty sick is the song that closes out here. Oh, yeah, that was amazing. Sick needle drop at the end. No, I just, I mean, this made me... I'm glad this is a weekly show and not a binge, to be clear.

But it did make me, like, oh, my God. And then the tease for episode three was just so good. So I'm hyped, man. I'm hyped. Between Anton Zoe and Sinestro, I don't think I'm missing it, but maybe I am. On the wedge front? On the wedge front. Wedge Watch.

Wedge Watch 2020. Wedge Watch. And who do I think we'll be best of it? Semestro. If we go back to last week, the phone call between John and his dad. Yeah. Right. So there's that as well.

John's Senior. Okay. Yeah. All right, juniors and seniors. All right. What's happening next is something we're calling Rapid Fire Theory and Comics Spoiler Corner. Yes. So.

And to be clear, not comics that we know are going to have. have a direct bearing on the future of this season. No, these are actually just a bunch of emails we got from listeners that I wanted to read and I just did not want to injure anyone who didn't want to listen to it. So is that enough warning for you to leave if you don't want to hear it? Bye. All right. Kara wrote this before we met Anton in this episode, right?

But Kara said, I have a strong suspicion at the War of, quote, vengeance, the alien Hall and Terragate's mentions refers to the Red Lantern Corps. The show is entitled Greenlanders, but simply lanterns. If Red Lanterns are the aliens shooting each other at the high school football game, this ties to the Manhunter's storyline teased in the weeks to come. This explains how and why a random alien was able to bait Jordan, a guy who started a bar brawl without a hint of agitation, and who just ratified a peace treaty, into executing a stereotypical police procedural body slam into the two-way mirror,

infected with rage. This also explains the sneering recitation of the Green Lantern Oath in that moment. The Red Lanterns exist. following a genocide in sector 666, perpetrated by Manhunters who were created by guardians. A red lantern, that's the other fact. Manhunters made by the guardians. Yes. A red lantern exists to oppose the guardians and knowledge of the Guardian's original sin might be the thing that makes making Hal Jordan the cynical, jaded green lantern, we meet in 2016.

Maybe. This feels completely possible. Oh, absolutely. I mean, I definitely think that Anton and his crew are Red Lantern. In the weeks ahead, we have seen red light sort of. special effects stuff. So I definitely think we're getting Red Lantern stuff this season.

Are we going to get yellow lantern stuff this season? Maybe. It could be... Or finale sort of thing or something like that. And then maybe that's like a season two focus. Right. I like it.

I like too. Okay. Matt wrote in to say DC Comics crossover event called Millennium, Manhunter's sentient space robots that used to work for the Guardians and that the Guardians found unfit and replaced with the lantern

start activating sleeper agents on Earth. Some of them wind up being close friends of key heroes, and some of them had been on Earth for a very long time. In Batman No. 415, for example, Batman discovers his friend Commissioner Gordon has been replaced by a Manhunter when he decides to fight him and comically hurs himself trying to kick and punch a robot good times. The idea of Manhunter's infiltrating Earth has a long history.

They hate the Guardians for replacing them, hate the lanterns as their replacements, and are skilled at blending in physically, but often lack an ability to mimic human, context and emotion, classic robot problems. email from that. Incredible stuff. So could there be other hidden man hunters?

Right. Everybody's talking about this one. This one. Right. But what if there are more? What if, I mean, God. Geez. We don't have a lot of other characters.

I was going to say, I was quickly like trying to think of a single other person we met who we had already theorized about. Right. Yeah. And we could. John Sr. Let's go back and watch that 60 minutes footage again. Okay. Something I think about it.

All right. Brandon. Yes. This is the parallax theory that I was reluctant to bring up in a non-spoiler setting. Okay. Something that makes Hal Jordan unique in comics canon, I don't think it makes him unique, but distinctive in comics canon, is that he's one of the only A-list superheroes who has been a super villain. In the Emerald Twilight arc, Howl's hometown, Coast City, and all of its residents have been white.

out in a bombing. Crayed with grief, Hal used the ring to recreate Co-City, Wanda Vision style, and all of its resonance. The Guardians of the Universe reprimanded him for it as lanterns are apparently forbidden from using the power of the rings for personal gain. Like putting money in a jukebox, perhaps. I don't know. And enraged Hal takes off for the Guardians Planet Oa, intending to drain the main power battery so he can bring the Co-City back for good. Various lanterns try to stop him along the way. Hal defeats each one, takes their ring, leaving them for dead. Eventually, he kills Sinestro and even his close friends kill a wok and enters the power battery to take his power when he emerges. He's the villain Parallax.

Right. The idea of TV Hal going dark on backing up his consciousness, maybe in order to hide something from his bosses, made me think of this arc. I'm also a huge Tom King fan. And one thing King has explored in most of his major stories, Omega Man, Mr. Miracle, Strange Adventures, Supergirl Woman of Tomorrow, Superman up in the sky, even Batman, is a character dealing with sustained trauma, usually via devastating loss or be. being witnessed to or participating in some horrific event, war, genocide, torture, etc. The idea of Hal going through a massive traumatic loss and coming out broken seems right up King's Alley. Just a thought. Yeah. The first episode made a big deal of Hal proclaiming that the death of his father

was the worst thing it could ever happen. So after experiencing it, he was left without fear. Part of Hal's recreation of Coast City was bringing back his long dead father compounding his traumas and parallax in Lantern's lore eventually. And this is where I think we're headed. Yeah. Parallax and lantern's lore eventually was retcon to be sort of a manifestation of fear, a demon that possessed Hal in his weakness and made him break bad. Could be some interesting stuff in there to mind as far as repressing and denying fear and the ways it can come out anyway. Yeah. So this idea of parallax as a demon, almost like the Yellow King and Legion, just sort of like this thing that can live inside of and infect a hero. And so when we watch Kyle Chandler's performance inside of this episode and other episodes and see those flags,

and see those flashes of like fear on his face that he like tries to suppress or master or whatever it is. Like is that the demon that is already inside of him growing and taking greater control of him or? Or is he just so ripe for that vulnerable for infection? Yeah. So here's the question pacing-wise. What do you think is more likely if this is the intention to go in this direction, which would be, you know, quite interesting to watch? Yeah. Is that season two?

Does that happen inside of season one? How, breaking bad. Yeah, breaking bad. Yeah. I don't know. I would rather it be a season two because that means we get Kyle Taylor for more. Yeah, same.

Same. Sue us. Yeah, because it's not a long, long season. It's not. We only have six episodes left already. Yeah. This was definitely the, and obviously after episode two, there's going to just, there's a lot of, okay, who's the manhunter?

Let's go through the contenders theorizing. This was, it felt like the biggest, after episode one theory on the internet. The parallax thing. Yeah. And I wanted to put it in the spoilers. You know, we were sort of discussing where to put it.

And I kind of wanted to put it in the spoiler section just so that like people who don't want to know that like, hell does break bad. Yeah. That's even possible here. Okay. So all of that is interesting to me. Last not least, Jean-Michel wrote in and say,

in terms of whether or not Hal is actually dead. Yeah. Oh, oh, to go back. Okay, this is what I want to say before this. In terms of us asking in episode one, what happened to turn 2006 Hal Jordan into 2016, Hal Jordan, in terms of like the Hallogram versus the Halogram versus the Hal we meet in 2016? Yeah. Do we think the Sinestro sort of like attempted coup happens between 2006 and 2016? And that is what like broke his heart and turned him into who he is.

I think so. I'm still interested in the fact that Hallowgram is not wearing the lantern suit. and had already, like, shed the, like, I need to wear the tie. But he wasn't quite in this, like, that was a shiny leather jacket. It is a little different from the, like, the worker jacket that he's in here, the utility jacket. But yes, it feels to me like something, it feels to me like maybe something about Sinestro's training and mentorship had changed something for how, right? Other events, whatever the case may be, various things in his life, lost loves, et cetera. and then the seismic Sinestro fall

has happened more recently. He had to be the one to put his dad in jail, his space dad in jail. Like even just... His space dad who like... Hal Jordan, someone who lost his real dad and was like just susceptible to someone stepping into being like,

I'm your daddy now, I'm your pink daddy now or whatever. And then he has to put pink space daddy in jail. Yeah. And then every time we want to, to go visit him. He has to voice activate the clearance so that everyone knows he's there to do this. Like that felt purposeful too in that scene. And if Space Daddy is like, hey, the guardians, should they be in charge? Right. Right. Are they right? Just asking questions. Is Jacob right? Does that God exist? Does that exist? Let's get the Thanos was right mug, but for Sinestro.

I mean, again, this is this is the, again, There are multiple creatives in the room here. Yeah. But the constant Damon Lindeloff drum that he bangs across lost, Prometheus, even, leftovers, watchmen. Yeah. This is sort of like, is God out there? Does he care? Is he mad?

Is he my dad? Like all of these questions are constantly here. So like if the guardians, and to put this here in the spoiler section, which I don't know, whatever, But Laura Linney is a guardian in the episode three preview, right? So space mommy, you know, like mommy issues, enter the chat. But like if, and she's doing this very like sort of like 1950s like Donna Reed kind of like as a symbol of like sack or encoded authority is really interesting to me. But if it's like space dad versus space mom and who's right and you and you put space dad in jail but you don't trust space. mom anymore?

Like, complicated. Family. Would you say the conflict in the human heart? Is the only thing worth writing TV about? Maybe. It's the only thing worth making HBO Sunday Night TV about. This is exciting. Yeah, I'm excited.

There's a lot of possibilities here. Anyway, this is Lantern's season one, episode two. I'm sad we're already down to just six episodes remaining. Sheesh. No, I think we did it. I'm really excited to think about. Ben Linus always. Okay. Oh, my God.

Who will say what about you to Sinestro? What about you? It's never been easy. Okay. Thank you to Carlos Chiraboga. Scott Lee, Jacob Cornett, Arjuna and Coppell, Jumia Diner on, everyone, everywhere all at once, the entire city of Baltimore. That's right. And to our favorite hometown hero, Mallory Rubin.

Thank you to coming home to Joanna for coming home with me. The pride of Baltimore. The pride of the Orioles. Malar Rubin. I can make baseball movie references. We'll see you for Oppenheimer. That's right. Which we are recording at the Crack of Dawn tomorrow

with another live event in between, but you will get to consume in like two and a half days, I think. It'll be great. We're doing it. We're doing it. We'll see soon. Bye. will hear the words, you have cancer.

That's why every step and dollar raised matters. On September 19th, join thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation Walk. Challenge yourself, friends, and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research. Together, we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer. Register today at pmcfwalk.ca.ca.