House of R - 'Lanterns' Episode 4 Deep Dive

Episode Date: September 7, 2026

Mal and Jo jump right into another deep dive on Episode 4 of 'Lanterns,' and somehow we’re already halfway through Season 1! They break down some major theories surrounding the Manhunters, the growing mystery and increasingly strange events unfolding in Rushville, and the complicated dynamic between Hal Jordan and John Stewart as their relationship continues to spiral downwards—or perhaps evolve!(00:00) Intro(03:52) Opening snapshot(20:30) Hal’s Sinestro visit continues(51:16) John shops with the townies(58:31) Water tower recon(01:04:09) Bringing Kerry up to speed(01:10:25) Lianna pays John a visit(01:18:28) Drill-time bonding(01:24:54) Inside Macon’s weenie(01:31:21) Macon’s other weenie(01:38:43) Zoe’s visit takes a turn(01:42:46) Slaughterhouse sleuthing(01:54:40) Hector’s gambit meets Hal’s gambit(02:04:56) A frosty car ride homeHosts: Joanna Robinson and Mallory RubinProducers: Carlos Chiriboga and Scott LeeStudio Production: Jacob CornettSocial: Jomi AdeniranAdditional Production Support: Arjuna Ramgopowell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Greetings. And welcome to House of Our. Yeah. A Ringerverse podcast on the Ringer Podcast Network. I'm Mallory Rubin. Joining me today to remind me that I better start doodling junior. Junior. Junior.

It's Joanna Robinson. Which one of us is a squirrel inside of this Green Lantern Corps, do you think? I mean, you are the number one squirrel girl, enthusiast that I know, so I did think of you right away. That's true. And I'm fond of a nut. I like a nut too. Yeah. I like a nut too. Okay. What's your favorite kind of nut? Almond. I like an almond as well. Delicious. Raw. Unroasted. Un salted. Give it to me raw. I was just going to say the same thing. We are here to dive deep into Lanterns, episode four, right after this. Now more than ever, quality matters, but so does Price. At Marshall's,

You don't have to choose. You can get the good stuff for less, the stuff that lasts. Because there's no point in tightening your belt. If it's just going to break when you do, get the good stuff in store at Marshalls today. This episode is brought to by Uber Eats. You can get almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Sorry, you can't get a beach delivered, but you can get a peach. A canoe, no.

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Order minimum of $30 required, valid on grocery, convenience, retail, specialty foods, or flowered delivery orders only. Terms and conditions apply. Okay, programming reminders. Hell yeah. Lantons on Mondays. Correct. That's the hope. I have an upcoming vacation. We'll see if that impacts anything.

But even then, I think we'll manage to do Mondays. We'll figure it out. Yeah. Buffy. Season 5, Part 1 at Long Last, R'd already up. Hell yeah. Season 5, part two, coming later this week. Imminent. On the horizon. Thrilling. That's one of the most anticipated Buffy Pods yet. I mean, for the two of us.

Hopefully for other people, too. People seem really excited about part one. People seem to really love season five. So yeah, part two, season five is very important. And we will talk about it. Can't wait. Joanna, how can everybody follow along? Oh my God. I'm so glad you asked me. Listen, what if they just subscribed to this podcast? What if that's something they did? It's a great idea. What if they followed us on social at House of our pod on Instagram? Mallory has told me that she might fang herself up. Yes.

For an Instagram post later this week. I intended to do it last week and didn't mold the fangs. But once you do, we will have matching molded fangs. What part of your body will you let me bite for an Instagram photo? Literally any. And we haven't even gotten through the intro and they have their first quote card. I know. Great.

At House of our pod on social to see where Mallory decides to bite me with her new fangs. Follow our journey. Obesendragons and Gmail.com. The inbox is always open. As we mentioned on the Buffy pod last week, we are pre-recording this. It's Labor Day weekend, so we were recording this in advance. So we will not have your reaction emails to episode four, though we will read them before we record episode five. So just in case you're like, hey, man, I had said something really brilliant about that.

I bet you did, but I didn't get to read it. So I will look for it later. Thank you so much. But the inbox is always open for all your takes. Spoiler warning. Yeah. Hell yeah. Same as it's been for lanterns, right? If it happened in this episode of television, the weenie, episode for the weenie, then it'll come up today. We're going through the whole episode in chronological order. If it's happened to this point in the HBO Sunday night television program, Lanterns, it might come up today. If it's happened in the comics, how are we approaching that, Joanna? Yeah, there's like a few sort of hot button issues that we're reserving for a spoiler section, I guess. We're calling it like sort of speculation comics lore section at the end.

We don't have one today. Yeah. So don't worry about it. So the spoiler warning was not something we needed to share today. Keep it in mind for a week from now. Sometimes we do. So we'll let you know. Great stuff.

Okay. I believe those are the programming reminders. Those are the spoiler warnings. Those are the follow along how tos. Yes. It's time for the opening snapshot. Episode 4 The Weenie, 52 minutes, directed by Gita Vassant Patel, Hot D. House of the Dragon Legend, Gita. Exciting stuff. That was a thrill. Written by Brianna Gibson.

Joanna gives me. Who worked on Penguin. That's right. A show we loved. And it's... The orange one. According to IMDB, though, IMDB is often unreliable about future stuff, but it's supposed to be working on the chain, which is Damon Lindeloff's next project. So if that's true, someone who was impressive enough in the lantern's room to sort of be brought over to Damon's next project. You love to hear it. You love to know it.

On the penguin front. Yes. And a couple listeners email this about this. Did you see the Kelly MacDonald interview where she talked about how she was watching the penguin to sort of prep for her Gotham-centric character and that she based some of her accent on that, but then had to tone it down because she was doing it. like too much and had to like calm it down. And I was like, is that what that is? She's trying to do Boyd. Like she's trying to do what Colin Farrell's doing in the penguin.

I'm going to need. But flattened out with a couple years in Nebraska. I'm going to need a little bit of like a tail of the tape forensic analysis of that claim. There's this guy, one of my favorite creators who's a, I don't know, linguist. I don't know exactly what his qualifications are. but he breaks down cinematic accents. I love it. I really need him to do a deep dive

on what Kelly McDonald's doing here in this show. But anyway, let's call it Gotham. Sure. With the edges sanded off by Nebraska. Okay. This was an interesting episode because this is a very share of Carrie-centric episode where, again, some amazing story,

some amazing beats, the zingers with Carrie and Hal wonderful, and then some real accent stumper. But overall, aside from Accent Corner, Joanna, how did you feel about this episode of television, episode four? And because episode four is somehow already the midway mark of season one of lanterns, how are you feeling about the season overall at the halfway point here? I can't believe we're through half of it. The fuck. Someday the passage of time will make sense to you, but it is not this day. It is not this day.

I loved this episode. I thought this episode was amazing. I thought this is a fantastic episode. And it's really interesting, you know, we get the remission of the ticking clock in this episode, right, 36 hours. So it's interesting to think about, and, you know, it's a day and we're through a night, right? So less than that on the ticking clock. So we have not had the advantage of seeing the next time on trailer, so we don't know what's coming next week. That's right.

But if the clock runs out in next week's episode, then what is the rest of the season? Is the rest of the season still in 2016? Are we going to get more of that flash? You know, like, are we going to be hopping around in time more? Like, how is it all going to sort of roll out? I'm not ready to say goodbye to Kyle Chandler. I'll tell you that much right now. No.

Boy, was this a great Kyle Chandler episode and a wonderful Aaron Pierre episode. They're just so good together. The Water Tower Recon scene between Hal and John was. just so delightful. Wedge watch was off the charts. Yes. Like absolutely out of control in terms of like everyone trying to drive a wedge between these two guys, which means that we are rooting so hard for them to figure it out.

Yes. And a pal of mine who's a listener was talking about last week's episode and the way in which Hal is dropped in at the end of the episode and how much he loved that idea of like how sort of like being a charming asshole is something that we've been like in enjoying whatever. But the way that he drops in at the end of episode three, and it's just like so much more rancid than it's ever felt before, which we noted. But just sort of like, if it had been Hal throughout the episode, it would have felt different than just like dropping Hall in at the end and just that like Midwest Huxable shit that he says and all the sort of stuff like that. But I'm like rooting for his better angel to come through always, you know.

and then he crashes a car that our guy John is in into a telephone pole. And like without any regard as we got in episode one, without any regard to whether or not that would be a fatal crash. Just a sassy, sorry about the rental. We know it's not, but like that could have killed him. Yeah, oh yeah. I saw Cod stealing. That's what happens in that movie.

Damn spoiler. It's not the point of that movie at all. The point of that movie's baseball, right? Sure. There's a lot of carrying a bat in a trailer. But yeah, I mean, that could have, and we know it's not because we've seen the flash forward, but like that could have easily been fatal. And so how do we feel about our guy, Hal, like, you know, possibly killing our guy John? Obviously terrible.

We've gotten some key canon insights inside of this episode to why all of the rooms in the hospital are open. So maybe Hal is just like plenty of available. No, how's an asshole? As he concedes and as many people observe in this episode, I thought it was just an incredibly propulsive and entertaining episode. It was a great one for the character dynamics. This was once again a very funny kind of crisp episode in terms of the banter. And it was obviously a big episode for moving the story forward on the lower front in terms of what we learn,

in terms of what characters share, kind of a lot of theory corner fodder. big reveals but still have questions. I'm really relieved that Zoe is seemingly like revealed as the Manhunter. That's what seems like the conclusion at the end of this episode. And like, what the only Manhunter? Exactly. We don't know. The Manhunter or A Man Hunter?

Great, great question. But I think that like. Just asking questions. Yeah. I love that. I love when you ask questions. Just asking questions. But I think that like that's a relief to me because it felt it was feeling kind of obvious.

Yeah. Especially like midway through this episode. I was like, if they don't reveal it at the end of this episode, it's going to be really annoying to sort of like be so far ahead of the show. And the show's like, don't worry. We're with you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Are there some mailbags that we should hit before we get into the deep time? Yeah. Really quickly. And then one long one. One listener wrote in to help you out. You did not have one of your classic. That's what I would say to Kyle Chandler lines in last week's episode.

So one of our listeners wrote in to help you. Towards the end of the episode, Halas Jr., if he's coming. Interesting enough, that's what I'd like Kyle Chandler to ask me. Strong same. Okay. I feel about the listeners like horning on your bit. I feel just seen known and understood. Great.

Our listener Nicole asked, quick question for non-combook reader, can women be lanterns? The main question I came away from episode three with was, why wasn't Bernadette a candidate? She seems better suited than John Sr. in many ways. So we've mentioned it before, but Jessica Cruz is in the can. the comics, the first female human lantern. 2014, Jeff Johns and Ethan Van Seiber, Skyver, created her. Jessica Cruz is a really interesting lanternry. We've had a lot of people write in about her.

But we did get a lot of emails from listeners being like, hey, Bernadette seemed like she would have been a really cool candidate for Lanternhood. Or do we think actually the ring was trying to find her? And she just happened to be like out of the room. Got to go check on the kids. know how accurate is that ring in terms of like seeking out who it's looking for or whatever. But I thought that was interesting. But the answer to Nicole's question is there is at least one human female in the comics.

Heather wrote it to say, as a budding bird nerd, which is just a really fun thing to say, I had to look up the weird blue jay looking bird that was watching John intensely in episode three. It turns out that the bird used in the episode was a black-throated magpie jay, which is native to Mexico. It could just be an aesthetic or availability choice, but using that bird gives the credits the idea that the guardians really did use birds to watch John. If the Stewart House was truly in the Midwest, there's no way a bird native to Mexico that doesn't migrate north will be showing up in their backyard. Where are you on Birdwatch? Open. I think the fact that they appear so many times does make it plausible that the Guardians

are checking in. I think certainly it's more likely that the Guardians are keeping tabs on all of their candidates than just abdicating any sort of level of awareness or scouting responsibility for decades on end given the haste with which Leanna was like, here's my opening. I'm ready to make a move, right? Eager. That said, the idea that we all navigate our lives with some level of like confirmation bias and see what we want to see also feels very interesting and appealing, especially with this character set. And so I'm open. I love a bird. I've really, I've just been really interested in hummingbirds recently. They're just absolutely fascinating and majestic. I get so delighted when I see one. Also, as you know, I once saw a pigeon with you on the streets of Chicago and pointed at it and

said nature. So I'm always thinking about birds as well. I liked when we got to see the sketches in John's room that there was like a little little foot, little bird. He's still bird. A little bird foot right there. He's still doing bird stuff and mommy issues. stuff for sure. Our listener Pat wrote in to underline the idea of how early the Guardians had buyers remorse on Hal. Like when they go to visit Bernadette, that's like just after the ring chose Hal. So it's not that the whole thing with Sanestro is what made them unhappy that Hal was the Green Lantern. They were unhappy right away with Hal Jordan. So that's just something to think about. Yeah, I guess. I think that there are potentially other.

interpretation so that that's certainly possible. Why do you think Leanna would show up with a diamond and be like... Because she was on the, like... I mean, I think that the possibility of just a larger need to control what is happening on Earth, independent of any specific flaw with Hal. Maybe there's enough early to clock. We're not going to be able to get this guy to do what we want. He's a little too much of a rogue.

And so given the theory corner stuff, obviously, about what we've already heard from Anton in episode two with John and the way that John and Hal themselves start theorizing then about the crash and Ibn Sur and the Manhunter and what level of involvement did the Guardians have in that and why? And these are not questions that we have answers to at this point. So what exactly from the Guardian's perspective is the risk of whatever has unfolded in Rushville? I mean, there's the just obvious Manhunter answer to that. Right. A manhunter who escaped is a risk to the Guardians.

But so they need to say we have to spin this out and be prepared for whatever the future holds now this backwater planet that we never intended to have a lantern at all has a lantern. We better make sure that we control who that lantern is in the future. I think there's a version of it that's more just like futureproofing. Okay. So they're just sort of like just having a human lantern at all makes us nervous. Yeah. And like let's get our arms around how that functions since it's a new thing and make sure because control is so central to how they operate that it's something that they can guide. But maybe just right away they're like, Hal, this is not going to work for us.

Okay. I don't know. Interesting. Okay. And then we get a long email from our listener, Grant, that I am not going to read in full, but I am going to read a lot of it. And I will say, Grant is a listener that I know very well from the Lost podcast day. So this is very much, the reason I'm going to read this in full, it's so up our alley because it's about chosen ones across. like sort of Lindelof properties and sort of what the larger conceit is in terms of the story

we're telling here, right? So this is what Grant says. Whether or not they meant to as outcast wasn't written by Damon Lindelof, it gave off strong John Locke and Daniel Faraday vibes. Think back to the last episode, Kevin Fever, where we see that Richard Alpert is present at the birth of John Locke, then visits him as a boy administering a test for whether or not he was worthy to be chosen. He was not. Elpert was only taking the word of a time-traveling John, who seemed to have answers, though John's whole life turned out to be a con by one of the island's godlike beings, the smoke thing. And also think of Daniel Faraday's mother, Eloise, who turned her son away from his interested music to focus on studying physics,

which doomed him to his destiny, something of which she was well aware. Similarly, John Stewart has been chosen for a destiny his mother visited by an ageless, godlike being who checks in from time to time. Is it a con to force John into a destiny he doesn't want? I'm also thinking of the leftovers where Kevin Garvey comes to believe that he has been chosen since he survives the trials of the Hotel Underworld and International Assassin. And then Grant goes on to talk about this idea of international assassin as like this ultimate, one of the best episodes of television ever, leftover's episode, but this ultimate idea of like this male power fantasy and how like what is being a superhero if not a male power fantasy?

And then he goes on to say, even Kevin Garvey. Harvey at the end rejects the chosen one narrative in favor of love. And he feared love because you have to be weak with another person. You have to be vulnerable. You have to become small rather than seeing yourself as an international assassin or the most powerful man in the world. John Locke sought love his whole life. And that need was why his father could con him and exploit him. Daniel Faraday felt a twisted kind of love from his mother who forced him onto a path he didn't particularly want that resulted in his death. It was interesting to me to hear both Cary's and Whale and analysis of Hal Jordan and the pilot. Quote, he's not fearless, he's lonely, says Carrie. And quote, you want to die Hal Jordan, says Whalen, the alien. Hal leads a loveless life, so has John. Love is interesting in the context of the Green Lantern mythos, as it's typically in the purview of the star sapphires.

We haven't seen a Carol Ferris yet, Hal's constant love interest in the original Star Sapphire. We may or may not meet her, but seeing Howell's empty living quarters and the constant asshole-ish posturing. God, I love this character. It's easy to see that he keeps everyone in arm's length. I wonder if the rest of the season we'll see Hal and John become for each other what they couldn't find in anyone else love empathy or if they'll simply spiral deeper into fear and loathing. I mean, we hear Hal talk about this directly multiple times in this episode. You know, we have a great tunneling underground into the Macon Ranch sequence where John and how both learn new things about each other.

And we hear how engaged with this idea, right, about no ties, right? It's easier and better to have no ties. And then in the first of the car rides, just talking about loss and grief. And in a way, as we'll get to when we go through those scenes, I thought made it pretty clear that he was describing a very specific loss and not just the loss of the parents that he has obviously told us about, including. of this episode, but perhaps the loss of a love. So, yeah, it feels like all of those specific experiences with grief and distance in different forms are specifically fueling what Hal presents to John in this episode as I thought one of the more authentic bits of let me actually try to give you, like impart some wisdom

and mentor you actively with a real thing that I believe and have learned. And so it was like so tragic that that was the thing that he shared. Born out of his experience, it was really, really heart-wrenching. Oi, okay, great emails as always. Let's get to the episode four, deep dive. Okay, deep dive. We start this episode right where we ended episode two.

We pick back up with Hal and Sanestro. Hal is visiting his former mentor in space prison, authorizing the visit with his voice, his name. so surely tipping off the guardians to his presence there and presumably being aware that they would know that he was there, which is interesting to think about, given what we hear in this episode between Leanna and John about the breaking of the oath by making the visit.

But it's very weird that Leona's like, I just do not believe that they do not have surveillance on this cell. So do you feel like it was a test for John or just to see whether or not Howell told him anything? There's no way unless they're really bad at their job. that they don't have... That they don't have cameras and an audio recording on the... I mean, I think especially in this episode where we are prompted to think about the fact that our characters are probably being recorded everywhere they are, because the Hector, not Hammond, but Gutierrez's character.

It's like, I've been recording everything that you guys have been doing in this motel. Let me play what John said about you, Hal. Awkward. You know, that's there because of the effect it has on the characters in that scene and subsequently, but it's also there to make us think who's listening to them anywhere they are. The fact that this is a, like, guardian facility makes it, I think, impossible that they're not recording him. So, yeah, I processed it similarly to the, I mean, who knows, but I think it's more likely that it's akin to the Grey Wolf test during the interview where, like, our deduction was that they know about Al Jordan's involvement in all of that and have all the particulars and that Leanna was just seeing what John would reveal to her. And this feels maybe of a piece.

That said, she did seem nervous. So the idea that, like, there's something that she does not have access to is possible, but also certainly just that the whole, like, rekindling of that bond, which she fears. We also have questions about how Sinestro knows what he knows. Yes. You know, like, how does he know about John Stewart, et cetera? And so, like, is it possible that they don't have surveillance on him? That would be insane to me. That would be crazy.

That would be very bad presenting. Do you have any theories for how the news that has? Hal has a trainee, my trainee has a trainee, actually reached Sinestro? Like, is somebody feeding him information? Right. Does he have an ability to access Intel somehow from afar? Is it an active delivery or retrieval?

Or is there some vulnerability somewhere that, like, allows him to just... I don't know this thing. And then, like, on the sort of Ben Linus from Lost Comp that we made before, it's just sort of like, he seems, you know, if we're using that comp that this, This is a character. And we see him play how like a fiddle inside of this exchange. So like he seems like someone who could at any moment get a guard. I don't know what the guard system is like there.

But like if it's not just digital robot guards but actual like creatures, could he have convinced, you know, seduced mentally, emotionally a guard there to give him information or this, that, or the other thing? I don't know. But I feel like the possibilities are wide open with someone. someone likes Sinestro. Yeah, and how much is his, because so much of this episode, in the season so far is about the power of manipulation, that comes into active play in the discussion at the end of the episode

about what the Manhunter does and like how people prey upon. Tough look for my guy, John. But what was interesting about it is then you can apply. There were so many moments in this episode that were about a person, but you could apply to the entire character set as you think about like, well, who else might that, who else might we be able to like put that on? On the wedge watch front, you know, this is interesting too. It's like, is somebody else who is seeking to put a wedge between Hal and John feeding this information to Sanestro, anticipating that Hal will seek him out?

Like, the guardians, ooh. So you feel like the guardians could be using Sanestro to, like, whisper into Hal's ear to further the divide between. They obviously are, like, afraid of Hal because of Sinestro who killed one of them. So the idea of them being in any way in Cahoots is nuts. However, guardian hubris of saying, like, my enemy can be my pawn, at least intriguing to me, I think, as a possibility. Who the fuck knows? Sinestro asked where the guardians found John. And throughout the early parts of this exchange, there's a lot of like, who cares who gives a fuck stuff from Hal?

I thought that, I mean, the entire Sinestro performance was, I thought, riveting, just incredible. The, I care, Hal. I care. there was something that was so just like mesmerizing and gripping in the delivery. And as we think about the history, which we've heard multiple characters describe, Carrie to Hal in the hospital, John recounting what he knows when Leanna asked him in the interview, etc. We've not glimpsed any of this directly, right? The master apprentice relationship between Sinestro and Hal. And what happened with Sinestro and the Guardians exactly.

like we have the, and you know, this conversation, the incredible, like, is that how you fooled me? Hal himself is still trying to understand what happened, right? And so the moments of actually getting to hear Sinestro say, I care. And like, we know that he has staged a coup against the guardians and killed one of them. We're just now getting to access directly from his perspective for the first time. That venom really potent and exciting. I just love the way he said it, like, because Hal Hopp, too, when he said that. when he said, I care.

Yes. He's saying, you know what the priority in this conversation is? What I want. My priorities. I care. So you answer. And then Hal answered him. Yes.

Which is just sort of like so revealing, obviously, about their dynamic and about the way in which Senestro has trained him. Yeah. Both like in his power set, but also just sort of like to heal, you know? And so and when we think about Hal is this like wounded guy who lost his dad. We talked about this before. And Sanestro stepping in and taking advantage of. of that vulnerability and that wound to, you know, have this warped dynamic with Hal.

And at the same time, I'm still holding on to my Sinastro's right mug until further information was revealed. Of course. Because I mean, I'm so anti the Guardian. Yes, for sure. Maybe they're all wrong. But yes, it's hard to in any way empathize with the Guardian, certainly. And I think, like, especially because of, you know, Hal is pushing and challenging.

But we have heard so often him talk about how, including. in this conversation, John is just obsessed with following commands, the chain of command, following orders. So the fact that we see that kind of like almost on instinct response from Hal, even though he is challenging but kind of then still does it. They found him in the Marines. Fascinating to watch. Two things on that moment.

One, of course, they did not find him in the Marines. We know that, but to just be confronted overtly with the limit of Hal's awareness about the history between John and the Guardians, very painful to confront. I also just loved that this was when Sinestro got up and walked toward Hal and they're looking at each other through the, you know, the kind of like portal like there's a like quality, some sort of magical barrier there. But they can see each other. It's very like, oh, we want dual the fates, like waiting to get to Clivegata Mall sort of thing. But it also looked like there was a kind of mirror like quality because it's translucent, right? It's not so different at you and I.

Yeah, to have that, especially because the show has gone out of its way to give us framings like that with the interrogation scene and things like that. They're standing just across from each other and it's like, are you looking at a version of yourself? The way that in Silence of Lambs, Handel Lecter and Clarice are shot with that plexy between them, that happens a lot where you see a reflection of one in the shot of the other. Yes. And I ask once again, where is Miggs? You know, who is the Migs of this space prison? It is something to think about. We get the great line that we had seen in all of the trailers, you know, because Hal is clapping back, but then Sinestra moves him with a real quickness into that.

Then say what he actually is, my replacement. We cut to John. We'll talk about John when we get to the John scenes. We're going to stick with this Sinestro scene, so we come back to it. And Hal is like, Sinestro is just like, you're going to have to kill him. Just outright says there's no subtlety here. There's no incepting in this moment. It's just you're going to have to kill this guy.

points out, hey, I'm not evil. The murder stuff, that's your department, right? And Sinestra says, no, you're not evil. You're just, what's that word you're searching for? Old. What's that word you're fighting? Fighting. Old, which I just think is, like, I mean, it's, it's a hilariously harsh burn, experienced, right? He says, like, yes. Different. But the idea that Sinestro, it reminds me actually of, you know, we just covered Buffy season 5 part one. Yes. When Drusilla is able to pluck the word effulgent out of Spike's head, like what are Sinestro's abilities to sort of see inside of Hal's head and just pluck out the specific

vulnerability and just say, what's that word you're fighting, right? You're trying to hide a word in your head from yourself, from every, like your biggest shame, your biggest fear is that you're washed and you're old and you can't do this anymore. but I can ferret it out and pull it to the fore. And like how much of that is about Hal and how Sinestro knows him and knows how to push his buttons because of their history together. And how much of it is just like this is being human, you know, that you get old and you have to confront your mortality and you have to confront that the world is passing you by and you have to confront that somebody has put your replacement right there in front of you. Right. So when Hal says here like, Johnny Trihardt, he's too perfect. He's boring. Right. Replace me fine. It's like the bravado.

And then we watch at the, the bookends of this episode are Hal is old scenes, right? There's this conversation here. And then there is Hal having to stand there as Hector Gutierrez plays the recording of John telling Leanna this guy's fucking old. Without the provocation that got him there in the first place to say it. It's interesting to go back to that conversation that Bernadette was having with Leanna, where Leanna says, quote, humans have relatively short lifespans. Like, to your point, it's, we say this a lot when we talk about characters that we're studying. This is so human. It's human quality.

But like inside of this world where there are just so many non-humans, like the fact that Hal is old versus Sanester's lifespan versus all these other creatures in their lifespans, the guardians, etc. It's a very fragile human, specifically human, short lifespan sort of aspect. Yeah. And then you think about Hal and losing his father. so young and the way that he talks about him in this episode and he was a hero, right? And test pilot and so much of Hal's like edge, right? And cool stems from I'm a fighter pilot too. And so you do these things that simultaneously

always always push up against mortality like definitionally and Hal has the most concrete proof of how true that can be. But then also the ring chooses you. And you know, as we've tracked across the episodes these moments where it's like, well, what is the, what is the, there's the I'm famous. I'm in the limelight. Everybody looks up to me. I'm a superhero. Some great, like, well, superheroes don't really lock their doors like moments in this episode too. But, you know, the side of that of like resenting the visibility and the pressure everybody puts on you to solve things all the time is something we've talked about a lot. There's also this part of it of like everybody watching you grow old, right? The days where you like, your back hurts or your hip hurts couldn't be us filming our podcast on camera. Suddenly it's like, right? But, right. Think about that from how everybody is aware. There's the salt in his hair all of a sudden, right? And so the moments to you that feel like part of your decline are there for everyone to see.

And then Johnny Tryhard comes in and he's fucking perfect. The line at the end in the slaughterhouse scene with Hector at the end of like, obsolete. Obsolete. And especially because we've gotten these great moments across the season, like we had the line in episode three, the John Leana conversation about like humans aren't programmed, they're raised. And we keep getting these moments where like tech language is used, right? But you're a person. And so if somebody is saying you're obsolete because here's the shiny new model, I'm like, it took me into like a Ishiguro, like Clara and the Sun headspace, right? It's like these are people. So it's just a very painful.

I think this episode has done, like did a really good job of just giving us moments that open these big almost existential questions while also advancing the plot. But So interesting to think about that idea of like humans and mortality and fragility inside of an episode where we have, you know, Makin Senior and all of his resplended naked glory talking about which elephant. What their town has become. Right. And what it has become is a place where humanity doesn't concern them as much anymore. So nobody gets sick. You know, like how long do they live longer than humans usually?

do. We don't know that information yet. But like they're not getting sick. There, you know, there's bounty of plenty. Like, we are living a superior existence because of this godlike benefactor who has come to us. And so to think about, especially when the Manhunter is a constructed property, this idea of these tech terms is sort of. of like how is the entire town of Rushville like had their brains rewired? Absolutely. By the thinking and the language and the influence of this person inside of their community. It's so fascinating that Macon in particular, but the buy-in from the militia and the collective

of like the, you know, what we talked about a lot in episodes one and two, the fear-mongering, the kind of jingoistic isolationist language of let's keep everybody else out who is a threat, that the embrace of the Manhunter who has fueled their superiority and infallibility to these threats, that is like the idea that the other humans then who would come in or aliens who would come in anybody who would come in is potentially a threat and how the Manhunter has such a self-serving thing for the Manhunter to say, like, except me as the one exception to that. Absolutely. And then everybody else's... I think what's interesting. So, you know, a couple things.

First of all, Garrett Dillahunt, 61, looks incredible. And so, like, good job to him and his trainer and all that sort of stuff like that. But the idea of this 61-year-old man, like, looking like this inside of the world of this show is, like, this is what it means to live under the auspices of the Manhunter. There's, like, one scar here to tell you something has gone wrong in the past. Yeah. And then also this idea. So, like, I found it so interesting the way that he kind of repeated this language about, like, the natives and what, you know, the natives of this land and what they had to fear. And I was like, this is such weird, like, messaging, almost like repeated messaging.

And so, you know, something that's interesting about the Manhunters in the comics, various version of the Manhunters and what they've been over the years. But this idea of, like, on various planets, there was this idea of the. cult of the Manhunter's. The Manhunter's, like, show up and get all these humans to basically, like, worship them. And so if you think about Rushville as this sort of, like, cult-like community, that, like, let's say Zoe is the Manhunter. Yeah. Certainly a Manhunter, but the Manhunter. So Zoe shows up. Performs a miracle. Yeah. Cures. Savior. Sure. Why not? Cures Macon Senior of, of cancer, you know, and finds the alpha. Macon Senior. Curesome of cancer. Marries him and is sort of like weds herself to this,

you know, slab of, of grade A American beef that is like running this community. And so, and to have a ranch, which is so associated with cult like behavior in my life. But like to think about, we talked about this multiple times, the entire town emptying out for this meeting of like, what do we do about this lanterns? Like that's not normal town behavior. No, certainly not. So like, In what ways is Rushville like a cult of a Manhunter, or Zoe's cult? Yeah. That she's running from behind the scenes. The way in which, I mean, one of my favorite things that the show has done leading up to this and even in the side of this episode is it's just constantly he.

He, he, he, he, he, the benefactor, he, he, he, you know, in an attempt to hide Zoe from the viewer. but in general sort of like this this form that the Manhunter took from the viewer or from the other characters too both yeah absolutely both but like that's that's like a sort of famous screenwriting trick but also yeah like from the from the detectives as well but just thinking about like yeah this idea of this entire town sort of like oriented around this figure and how she has sort of shaped everyone's thinking and how her messaging is something that they repeat in this sort of cult-like follower fashion. And so for Maken Sr.

Just be like, here's the company line. The company line is this. Outsiders. Because she's afraid of the various aliens who are hunting her. So she has just repeated to them. This is what we need to do to protect ourselves in our community. And our utopian, and aren't you so grateful to me that I have cleared out your hospitals and filled your tables and all these other things?

And I just think that that is the traces of that in this true detective way that we've been seeing throughout is so fun to watch come together and form like a tapestry that makes a lot of sense. I thought there were other kind of fascinating moments in this episode of like seeing some language that doesn't then connect to the reality of the thing. Like they get to the slaughterhouse. That's outside of Rushville 95 miles, but still. But influenced. And it's like you can learn about a man from how they treat animals. And then it's like, we're in a literal slaughterhouse. So there's this real dissonance at play in many different moments across the universe of Rush. I have some questions when we get to those scenes for you about, like, who actually knows

about Zoe versus the Manhunter and how present the idea of a decoy was in many scenes across this episode, but we can hit that when we get there. Back to Sinestro. So he asks Hal if he respects John. And this was interesting because, you know, there's the I didn't say, like I said, respect, clarity here. And we have had now three of four episodes where some central

conversation takes place about the idea of respect, right? And how that's different actually from liking somebody. We had the carry scene in episode one, you know, can't be easy having to learn from someone you don't respect. I do respect him, John, and Hal. In episode three, there was

the Leanna John conversation. You must think something he was chosen instead of your father. My dad served this country honorably. He respects anyone whose job it is to protect people. He taught me to do the same. And so, like, how far that carries you, but what the limit of that is absent some sort of genuine affection or desire to forge affection, especially if you are a character who is in some way confronting the danger of forged affection, which is what Hal talks about multiple times throughout this episode. So that's sort of interesting.

It's very interesting. And it's, I guess what it motivates for us, the viewer, is this hope of pushing past respect into genuine affection. Yes, that would be the desire. Hal's like, all right, fuck off. You don't know anything about Manhunters. Enjoy your solitary fucks. Jack off all you want. I'm gone.

And Senastush, like, all right, we'll talk about Manh hunters. Let's do it. Believe to be extinct, I know some things about their unique physiology. Encourages Hal to, this would be valuable to the Guardians. So disgrace John Stewart by offering a Manhunter up to the Guardians. We don't hear, we do not witness directly in the scene, the crystal heart particular. Or the seduction info that we get also later. That comes up later.

So then the question of like, what else didn't we hear kind of has to be on our minds? How could it not be? Keeps pushing that wedge. Does John speak to the guardians? No, he says he doesn't. Told me about the Manhunter. Didn't have to do that, which of course was also our response to this moment, right? But there will be an active stretch of this episode where Hal has to confront, of course,

that John is talking to the Guardians and specifically what he is saying and what he thinks. But then even there, it's like, could have taken the ring, could have said the oath, didn't. So the push pull of what that actually looks like. Well, then he can be controlled. This is what Sinestro says. Is he fearless? He may be. Then he will be arrogant, overly confident, thus blindly oblivioning.

thus blindly oblivious to your true intent. Is that how you fooled me? I was never anything but myself. My ambition was always a threat. You simply chose not to see it. Do not make the same mistake with John Stewart. This was quite interesting. The bravado of fronting as fearless, leaving you vulnerable, right?

That feeling the compulsion to say I'm fearless or to try to force yourself to actually navigate life without fear leaves you open. Right? It doesn't make you stronger. It leaves you open. And of course, that's been on our mind from Word One of the series. Absolutely. This is an episode where in a very, very key moment we see undeniably that John Stewart is not fearless.

He is terrified about what is about to happen to his parents in the end sequence. And I think that this, you know, the whole season, Hal has talked about his gut, his famous gut. But this exchange at the beginning of this episode, right, is that how you fooled me reminds us that the famous gut has limits? Hal got fooled by one of the people closest to him in the world undercutting that idea that he always knows. He always knows. He's a student of nature, human or otherwise, right? And he can feel something and he trusts that judgment. Well, if he missed this, what else is he missing?

But also this is why. But also the seat of doubt for him. Of course. This is one of the many reasons why. I mean, I think he would resent John being here no matter what. But he is in a fresh position of not being able to trust his own. So even if he likes John, he's like, but should I like John? And is he telling me the truth?

And, you know, John has that similar exchange with Zoe where he's like, everyone's lying to me. Yes. And I know that because I'm lying to everyone. Because I'm like to everyone. Right. Here's what I think is the most interesting word in that exchange you just reenacted. Ambition. I think that is really interesting because there's like many different versions of Sanestro and his motivations in the comics.

And so, you know, what flavor of Sanestro are they positioning for us here? We got an interesting email from a listener who was talking about Sanestro specifically. like this idea of fear and force and how Sinestro specifically in like the Jeff John's run was a post-9-11 commentary. So I was like looking into

that a little bit and this is something Jeff John said in an interview. He says, I think the best superhero stories are metaphors for what we're really experiencing and Green Lantern certainly is that there's a storyline Sinestro core that was really all about post-9-11 fears. Okay. So like this idea of like like Sinestro, in most versions of the Sanestro fall story,

Sinestro was discovered using like too much force, almost fascistic control of his sector, born out of fear or whatever, or whatever you prefer, in terms of like being able to police people, but going except too far in something that howled, in some versions, but in many of them lately, Hal discovers and is like, oh my god, my buddy, my guy, my mentor Sinestro, this is how you're policing your sector horrible. And then again, in some versions, he's like, I'm going to go tell on you to the guardians.

I'm going to report you to the guardians, right? But I love that idea of like when we talk about space cops, which we have and sort of like who gets to decide who does what and thinking about this like Patriot Act post-9-11 America and the surveillance. and state and sort of like what you can justify when you when you have experienced a widespread fear inside of your community and what you can justify yourself. Yes. If you feel scarred by fear and stuff like that. And I thought what was really interesting is like in a version of the Sanestro story is told by Jeff Johns, it's and I have no idea what they're what version they're going to go with for this story, like what version exactly you've heard some aspects of it, but I don't know, like, precisely what version.

But, like, Jeff Johns tells this story about how basically, like, a suicide bomber kills Sinestro's wife, who is Erinsur's sister. And that is, like, a huge motivator for what pushed him. He was already not doing a great job, but, like, pushes him into this state. So like what story are we interested in telling about Sinestro here? And hearing that word ambition. Yeah. When there have been all these versions of the Sinestro story that are sort of about like, let's talk about how someone gets to this point.

How do you get to this point of fearlessness where you feel backed in the corner and you have to use too much force in order to gain control? But ambition doesn't really fit in with that. So like what story are they, you know, does that sound more like, again, the kind of like Lucifer Morningstar kind of thing? kind of thing, like, I should rule, I should be a guardian, I should like, that sort of stuff. So, like, I don't know, I just thought that that word was really, really interesting. And like, and when we're trying to find sympathetic paths forward for all of these characters, right? This is a show that seems very much interested in, like, okay, Bernadette and John Sr. did a bunch of this stuff. But what are the reasons why they did all of this stuff?

Or, like, Hal is an asshole and is feeling prickly? but what are the wounds that got him there? The Sinestro betrayal is one of the wounds, you know? But for Sinestro to say my ambition, so it's just him, not even someone else saying like Sinester's ambition. I just find that really interesting. And I'm like so compelled by this performance. I'm by this character. And I'm really excited to see where it goes.

I really hope that we get quite a bit more time with him in the back half of the season. I don't know what to expect there, given that the now two of the four episodes have included a Sinestro scene. But ultimately it's the same scene. the one visit cut across, you know, multiple episodes. And it's always seen in the trailer of him. Yeah, it doesn't make me confident that there's a lot more coming, but hopefully, like, flashbacks, that would be great. And then maybe obviously setting up stuff for the future of the story. But yeah, you know, I think, like the, I, we like complicated figures and complicated stories.

So I like the idea that Sinestro is, even if there was a at some point more personal or pure root, desirous of, and perhaps it's born out of saying the guardians aren't doing a good job. And so I think I could do better, right? But the fact that it's not just they're not doing a good job, but I could do better is telling, I think, in a story where like the positioning of what is the worthier path working for it or just having it, there's a version of that that can apply potentially to what we learn about Sinestro and the guardians too. You know, the guardians have it and they don't want to let go of it. And Sinestro's like, I've got some thoughts. I also just like, I was thinking about this a lot when I was, I love that point. I was thinking about, it reminds me of when we were talking at the first episode.

I was like, I didn't really love that flying scene. And you're like, oh, well, what did, like, how would you do it differently or whatever? And I was like, I don't have solutions. I just have, like, problems. What I love in this episode is when John is like, you can't just fly in there with your, you big green fists or whatever. And he's like, what do you propose I do? And he's like, here's a whole, he like comes with a solution.

He's like, here's a whole schematic I've put together. You know what he mean? So it's like, John is the kind of guy who doesn't just say like, your way is wrong. He's like, here's the alternate path. And I've thought it through all the way through. It's not just that I think I can do better because of posturing or I'm younger or hotter or all these other things like that. It's like, I've thought about what I think you're going to do.

And I think it's going to involve you getting killed. And I have come up with another idea, another path forward. Yeah, I don't know. It's interesting too because when you have a lot of time, when you're methodical and you act with intention, but also you have a lot of time for that to play out, there's a part of that that leads to really deliberate, thoughtful pursuits. And then there's a part of that. And who knows if we'll learn that this is maybe an aspect of the Sinestro story that leads to like a calcification of whatever that resentment is. And that can be like a, this is a story about emotion, right? One of the things that, like, Hal says to John is,

seems like you're like, you're quieting your feelings, right? And it was an interesting thing to hear from Hal, as we'll talk about when we get to that scene. But like, what happens if you're trying to stifle an impulse and what happens if you're allowing yourself in the time that you do have and the plotting that you're doing to heighten it? Like, those are dangerous in different ways.

John. So when we cut to him in between those two, Sanestro Hal Chunks. He's at the motel. We get to glimpse the drawings. There's the bird. As we mentioned, there's the Macon Ranch. There's Zoe. And his dad calls him. And he says, the guardians need to talk to you. Get to the pay phone. 20 minutes. They're going to patch you in. And John says it's a bad time. We're working the case. He hangs up, right? As he's knocking on Hal's door. This was, I thought, really fascinating to see the level of involvement that John senior and Bernadette still have. Like, not just that they're calling John multiple times in this episode

in our conversations, but the like, we'll patch you in. Like, we are directly of the guardians. Yeah. I find it's so fucking insidious that the guard, I mean, like, obviously Leon is about to show up and do like gaslight girl boss gatekeep of all time performance, right? But like, but the fact that like John and Bernadette are so closely involved in their grown ass adult son's job, you know what I mean? And it's just like, you know, let me let me get your mom on the phone.

Like Bernadette get on the phone. Like it's just, that's insane to me. We got a lot of emails from listeners sharing specific stories of families that they've grown up in where their parents behaved in similar ways. And several of them were like, I feel like the story isn't, and I don't think it is. But a lot of our listeners are like, I really need more John reckoning with what his parents have done to him, for him and to him. And as much as, you know, the people who made last week's episode are asking for our, like, empathy as we think about John and Bernadette, like, I do think that John finding himself here trying to be, like, walked by his parents still is a story that the show is very interested in telling. Yeah, I mean, it, the Leana part of it, the Guardian seeking to use the family dynamic. Especially because, you know, we saw it, one of the things we saw Leanna say to John Ash John in the interview in episode three was like about whether John was ready to feel even more isolated from his family, right?

And then we see that at least in this initial fate, yeah, but in this initial phase, these first couple months of the tenure of Green Lantern trainee that Leanna is seemingly doing the opposite working to keep. keep John's parents as present as possible in not only his life, but in his path to the ring. So that part of it is obviously really interesting. And I think, like, what John is going to continue to assess about these dynamics, like, I think that processing his family history, I agree with you, seems very likely to continue to be an interest of the show and of the character. I think that given that we saw the reaction that we saw to Hector saying three minutes on the clock satellite pointed at your childhood home and John's reaction to that, the undeniable love and desire to protect them and affection and connection that he has to them. And certainly then the cautionary tale of Hal saying no ties, it's easier, it's a lonely life, but you don't want the people in your life to get hurt.

you know, it doesn't feel like we're moving nor should we be moving toward John like rejecting the family bond that in fact finding a way to embrace the family bond but on his terms, not the guardian's terms. Yeah. It is interesting just to even track though the change over the course of these episodes

like from calling his dad and saying like what do I do about how he's done all this stuff and like what you know and his father having this great stuff and then him saying like no time right now dad like we're on the case right? Like that's that's just like a over the course of few episodes shift.

No question. And doesn't answer at all when we see his phone ringing when John and Hal and Carrie are together. I really like the conversation that we hear between Bernadette and John, which we'll talk about later when John is sort of like taken up the post of watching the parking lot back at the motel. That's that was really fascinating in terms of the John Hal dynamic as well. Here we see John after Hal does not answer because he's in space. go to the gun and ammo store. Needs a scope. And there's a citizen of Rushville there talking to the cashier, the clerk.

And as soon as John walks in, they're like the big green asshole's sidekick. So we've heard sidekick across every episode of the season. Obviously not something that John likes hearing. And we see once again that everyone in Rushville is like get the lanterns out of here. Now, we will end up hearing that from Leanna, too, which is fascinating in the John scene with Leanna when she flickers into the motel room. Like, why are you guys still here? Nobody wants the lanterns to be in Rushville, notable. But this guy's such a dick to John, right? He's like, guns, scopes, package deal. Sorry, right? And John's like, just totally cool. Okay, here's a lot

of cash. I'll take that one, then just unscrews the scope, leaves the gun, makes a joke about the ham and the tomato on the sandwich, and then says, hey, you all. were a blast and felt like a little bit of a different energy from John. How do you characterize it? I think because it goes right into the next scene, the Water Tower recon scene with Hal, he was just where we get one of my favorite moments of the season so far, the Disney exchange and like, did you just make a joke that just were getting to access more of John's personality?

On the one hand, yeah, on the other hand, I mean the racially coded good old boy, energy like, you know, coming off these guys in waves. And the way in which John, again, like, channeling what his father did say to him in the previous episode, which is like they get to get angry, we don't. And so the way in which he is just sort of like smoothing himself over and just sort of like swallowing it and smiling and just saying like, whatever you need, that's fine, whatever it takes to get me what I want and get out the door. And I'm not allowed to like get frustrated or upset. I will just take it. I thought was really interesting. And also what's interesting is the, I mean, he's a sniper, whatever, but like that one of John Stewart in the

comics most frequent constructions is a sniper rifle in the sort of like post we're allowed to make guns era of Green Lanterns. And so like he's like one of his iconic constructs is a scope. And so like for him to, but he has to go to the store and buy it because he doesn't have the ring and doesn't get to do it yet, you know. Yeah, I mean one of the first times that we. we heard maybe the first time that we heard sidekick invoked was another scenario like that. It was the minute John arrived in town when he goes to the football stadium for the first time and he has that interaction with one of Carrie's deputies, right, who kind of won't let him in as being a dick,

using the radio to kind of keep John at bay. And he had to, from the second he set foot in town had to navigate that kind of reaction response. So that has certainly not changed. To the water tower where John is using the scope to assess what is happening on the Macon Ranch, and then Hal drops in, astisoscope, incredible moment, just hysterical. I loved this scene.

I thought that it was a very humorous note in what was just overall, a very charming and also very fraught and very tense buddy cop, like episode for these two characters. And important to see them connect and important to see Hal actually like take delight in John and not just respect him, but also just like enjoy him. Yes.

And I love all of this. Also, like, you know, his answer of like, where were you? I was in space getting late. You know, like, were you worried about me, Jr.? Like, all that sort of stuff like that. But like, I was in, like, I was in, like, a quick smile. Love it. Where was Hal when he was missing in episode one, right?

Like, yeah. He was absent. Was he visiting Sinestro then? Right. Yeah. How much time has he been dosing the, the Sanestro whispers, you know? Yeah. I mean, it feels like what we were.

we see him approach Sinestro that there's a like I have had to gird myself to confront my I wouldn't be surprised at the first time especially since Leon is like hey he broke his vow so like if they do have any kind of meaningful surveillance. Right. But but I don't know like because again he's just like a deeply unreliable for sure. Yeah. And it also just has that nice effect of like reminding us but also making John feel undeniably. that Hal can go do whatever he wants at any moment in time, and John doesn't know what's happening.

And he's just earthbound and has to pay for his scope and, you know. Yeah, man. I like that Hal lied here and then tell us the truth later. Now it is because, you know, John's like, he gets glad. Leanna told me you broke your mouth. What's up with that? But he could have doubled down. He could have evaded at that point, too, and he didn't.

John starts to share what he's been observing, right? This chopper is coming and going. Same time every day, 917. That doesn't happen by accident. And four guard towers, they all have a line of sight to something that you can't see unless you're in one of those towers. The weenie. Chapper theories? Like, doesn't seem like Zoe's coming and going on the chopper? Tech? Didn't they say it was a decoy? Well, that's what one of the things John says is maybe it's a decoy. But like, a decoy for whom? Well, if it's a show for them, an idea that a benefactor is coming and going, which is the fact that she's here under your nose at all time. So it's just a show. They've started using the chopper because they're in town. Maybe.

Not something they're doing before then. I don't know. Interesting. John reminds Hal and us 36 hours. 36 hours to report Dan. TikTok, baby. The Disneyland Exchange, wonderful stuff. Loved the little smirk from John there.

They didn't let me in. It's the happiest place on Earth, but they said I'd kill the vibe. Just great stuff. Really got to kick out of that, wonderful. Hal says that they need to fill in. Sheriff Keane. Fill in Sheriff Keane, by the way, on stuff that John Solo has figured out. And we've been tracking this across episodes two. You're just going to say fill in Sheriff Kane and leave it there? Yeah, because I'm about to make a sex joke. So I'm going to I'm going to pace myself. Okay, buy your time. All right. Yeah. It's all about the build. It is. It's about letting the tension melt. Yeah. The, you know, the moments in episode two where we got to see how true detecting all of the moments in episode three where we get to watch John. as a Marine out in the field, but just in general, you know, seeing here, like, the observational skills, the recondability, the awareness, the deductive reasoning, right? This is all stuff that John is doing

on his own because we get yet another series across this episode of, God, it seems like there are some, like, problems with this whole Green Lantern set up with Darkness Guns and you're just like fucked, right? All of these limits across the episode, okay, shit, you didn't charge up, etc., etc., someone could just take the ring off your finger and say the oath? Like, oh my God, right? And so we've been tracking across the season. It's almost like Sanestro's right. What can you do without the ring?

And these are all things that John did without the ring, right? So Hal's like, all right, that's a lot good. I've got some Manhunter and tell good. We got to go tell Sheriff Keane, gave her my word. And John ships it, right? He's like, whoa. Ugh. I was like, what?

She's married. And unlike you, I respect the matrimonial bond. Wonderful. And then he says, you know, after just like two bros bonding over chicks, they maybe want to fuck delightful stuff. He's like, let's go. I'll fly us over. And John's like, how's that going to work? And Hal says, well, I can either carry you like a baby or you can hop on pretend like I'm a horse. And I just, I say to that, tough to see someone else living your dreams. Swaddle me down. Let me ride. you daddy. I refuse. I refuse to let them put that on the quote card. Swaddle me daddy is not. Swaddle me daddy is not baby play, Mallory? Let me ride you. I just like the idea just being pressed against. Swaddle me daddy into a microphone. Now filthy bullet hole riddle jacket. Wonderful. Ride I'm like a horse though. That's appealing. Sure. That's it's a horse play is one thing. But swaddle me daddy. Mallory, we have to draw lines somewhere. Pretend like I'm a horse. I'm good. Pats is just

great stuff. Just the delightful scene. When West Jet first took flight in 1996, the vibes were a bit different. People thought denim on denim was peak fashion. Inline skates were everywhere, and two out of three women rocked, the Rachel. While those things stayed in the 90s, one thing that hasn't is that fuzzy feeling you get when

West Jet welcomes you on board. Here's to West Jetting since 96. Travel back in time with us and actually travel with us at westjet.com slash 30 years. Loved it. They bring Carrie up to speed. They go to the bar.

And she's like, yeah, my husband owns it. Everyone in Rushville multitask. That felt notable. Fascinating. I mean, what? Fascinating. She was like a clue, right? Absolutely.

The lawyer is also the bar owner, et cetera. What else are we multitasking doing? Yeah, for real. That really dropped like a clang with a clang. Definitely. They tell her about the Manhunter hiding here. Assassins inbound. The aliens from the football game,

that's not the end of it. They share the clock with her, so that stokes the urgency for Carrie as well. And a little thing, but in this stretch of this conversation, Hal says, the thing that John just mentioned, John.

Not Junior. Not Junior. Then he goes back to calling him Junior. He'll call him Stewart elsewhere. But I was like, oh, he called him John. He called him John. I don't know.

I loved it. Magical. This is how I feel when Buffy called Spike William. It means something to me. Incredible. Carrie asked about the Manhunter. They don't know what it wants. But it's been here a while.

It can take any form. Dun, dun, done. Also, alien detectors won't work because this is something else. Dun, done, done. Also, it could be anyone hiding here in Rushville. Dun, done, done, done. This is like a hysterical. We're just setting up the theorizing among the fans,

some of which we will answer inside of this episode. Like the end of that episode of Night of the Seven Kingdoms when it's like, pan to dunk, pan to egg, pan to everyone in the score. It's like, dunk, dun, dun, dun. Yeah. Carrie. Yeah.

Where are you on her in general in this episode? Yeah. When does she know? Is she helping them? Is she lessen the no than literally everybody else? That doesn't really seem plausible. Well, she's an outsider. She's from Gotham.

But she's been here for how long? Newish in town? I mean, like years though. Yeah. Right? That's a little strange. I'm kind of like back on Carrie watch after this episode actually. Like it felt in some ways her, you know,

showing up to, got a call about two trespassers to help out Hal and John on the Macon Ranch, really putting herself at risk, et cetera. There's a very sincere emotional moment in response to Zoe's death.

What am I going to tell Noah? That's her. What is that? The lovely little fingerhold. Was that? Because she was like. But then right back to work? No, no.

She was like, what am I going to tell Noah? It was his grandmother. Like, is that how you react when the mother of, the grandmother of your child is dead? I mean, but what's the family bond? What am I going to tell Noah?

That was his grandmother. What do you mean? I know. So, yeah, I'm kind of back. And just like in general. Also, Zoe calling her. Let's be clear. Sheriff Kerry was lying to them from the beginning when they show up and she's like,

what do you mean aliens? We can't just say aliens. And then they're like, and then she's like, oh, yeah, we do have alien detectors. That's interesting that you know that. I already knew about the aliens. You know, like it's, she's been performing since. the moment we met her. And I don't know, like a little, just the, um, right in the next moment in the scene, they're like, well, why don't you suspect me? Felt very like. Yeah. So do you think she's a,

do you think she's a manhunter? What do you think? I don't know. I'm just, I think of all of the Hal's famous gut, what's the Chekhov's gut thing? Hal being very sure about Carrie and some carry centric secret. Are you saying what? Sometimes, sometimes, sometimes. Sometimes. like when you're I'm going to use a phrase I don't usually use but it is evocative construct like or leading with your heart

instead of your gut I guess to use the more romantic stuff but like can the gut signal be be scrambled by the heart signal like I looked you up you are from Gotham is very nice to see your photo it's like hell focus my god says senior did you say see your photo or senior

photo my caption said senior photo oh I had seen your phone photo Oh, I had seeing your photo. Yeah, that's what I heard, but my caption said, very nice senior photo. And I was just like, were you looking at her high school yearbook? But also the Bang's comment is intriguing to me.

That was hysterical. So, yeah, I don't know. Back on Carrey Watch, I think. But, of course, we do have the 2026 moment as well, which on the one hand, there was such a, what seemed like a lovely little reason to believe that whatever happens in the 2016 timeline, Like the connection between John and Carrie and maybe Hal and Carrie survived that. But then also you're like, fuck, like she's the one with the body.

I don't know. I definitely think broadly speaking, learning what we learn in this episode about Zoe does not end the theorizing. Right? It just opens it up in some ways. And Hal is like, well, okay, the Ob and Sur crash, in answer to her question, Aubin Sur crash, Manhunter, Abt, Identity. It wouldn't be something on the record pre-crash. That's his, like, more rational.

And I saw your photo and I loved it. Yeah. That's the more rational part of it. Yeah, exactly. It's a gentle neg. She asked them to go to Theory Corner. Your bang choices were bad. I mean, she has beautiful hair right now. I'm sure she also looked wonderful with bangs.

Beautiful woman. She's like, let's go to Theory Corner, right? Who do you think it is? And they say, the benefactor. You must know something about the benefactor because, and before mention, if it's the lawyer mentioned first. And then, oh, yeah, this guy is also making son, which again just feels intentional to remind us that this family dynamic is really weird. Like whatever is going on inside of

this unit. She's like we don't have that kind of relationship. Yeah. And Hal is like, oh, interesting. You have my attention. I'm intrigued. But what does that actually mean? Like it feels like an opening for Hal because he has the hots for her. But what does that mean? What is their arrangement? We saw in the previous episode about like owing. Right. Yes. Yeah. So like what is her debt to the making family? Right. Yeah. And Hal had that great like sounds like a woman in debt line. But has he stopped. Is he still, how, how active is that thought for him right now? The heart is just the thumping too loudly.

I'm striking Kuntuck from the record and I'm going back. I'm pure, pure heart from here on out. I support you fully. So yeah, I don't know. I don't know what awaits on the carry front. Something. Right? I think we just keep asking questions.

Leanna. Let's get to Leanna. So John and how they head back to the motel. This is a masterclass. This was just an amazing stretch. A masterclass from Leanna. Wild stuff here. Before Leanna.

Shows up. They're in the parking lot for a second, Hal and John. And John says, any chance that Carrie rats us out? And Hal's like, no, no. My gut is always right, except for that time about Sanestro. Also, I really just liked, like, you know, better to wait six hours than die in the daylight. Like, I'm going to go take a nap, incredible stuff. So John goes to his room, turns the lamp on, there's a flickering, and then the mind fuck begins. You fail to make contact. I'm disappointed. Right away, we know that we're in for just an epic scene here. up question. Why does he have to go to a pay phone and get patched through if she could just hologram her ass into the motel room at any given time? I know. Also, how do you prevent a flickering into the

room at an inopportune time? When Zoe comes to visit later? Yeah, yeah. But do you think Leanna like bopped in and saw him when Zoe was like, oh. Maybe. I'll come back later. Entirely possible. I'd like to know what the hell recordings are. What do you think? Just him jacking off for six hours? A lot of that. Nursing some beers and jacking at him jacking off. Sheriff Kerry's senior photo Probably Yeah, I mean, it's canon I really love the idea that the caption

was just befuddled by Kyle Chandler's Like, folksy, seeing your photo And they're like, senior photo? Great stuff. Why are you still in Nebraska? Leanna wants to know, definitely for no reason, just curious, just checking in on your schedule, it's definitely not because the citizens of Rushville

don't want you here, but also the guardians don't want you here because we're hiding some great secret about whatever led to this crash in the first place. So why do you think so? You think the guardians just don't want them to know more about Manhunters or like... I think it could just be that, right? The connection between the Guardians and the Manhunter who wound up there and Manhunter's more broadly. It's not something that they want more deeply understood.

But if the Guardians know a Manhunter is there, would they not want to find said Manhunter themselves? So they want the guardians out of there so that they can like, you know... come in and take care of it themselves without any information getting out? Yeah, I don't know. Okay. I don't know. Maybe they're trying.

If it were me, I would simply say, hey, dumb cops. That's the Manhunter. Go get them. Because they hear the groups. There's the Guardians. Sure. There are the citizens of Rushville. There's the Manhunter.

They're all multitasking. That's right. Exactly. All multitasking. Sinestro, the lanterns, right? So there's Hal. There's John. Other lanterns.

And of course, there's also Anton and his alien gang. Of course. So how they come into play exactly. Of course, get the call at the end of the episode. We're close. So that's a very like high tension thing heading into next episode. Where the guardians are obsessed with control think they can exert control and practice.

Interesting to think about. Says how lied about his oath or violated his oath lied about where he was. Saw Sinestro. This is the what did they talk about. I was hoping you could tell me seeing that a moment that we already discussed. We agreed that it just feels like a. a test, but maybe also there is a what don't I know about what is going on aspect to it. And then Leanna says, Jordan's actions have accelerated the inevitable.

So we knew about this fear. We heard Leanna say to John in episode three. Sinestro was Jordan's teacher, a father figure. He still harbors deep affection for his mentor. It's quite troubling. And so this is like confirmation bias concern validation, right? We were worried he was going to still be in cahoots with Sinai. and then he went to Sineshro, but also, like, they're just waiting for any moment to say,

we got to get Hal Jordan out of fear. I kind of, I mean, like, we can disagree on this, but I kind of feel like that's how they felt since the moment he got the ring. Yeah, I think that's completely possible. And now they're like, ooh, the Sennestro thing really helps us, you know, trying to put him out there. Yeah, I definitely think that's possible. I don't think it's the only interpretation, but I certainly think it's completely

reasonable and probably even likely. she tells him just take the ring. The moment you put it on your finger recite the oath and you become Green Lantern for Sector 2814. So is this how Guy Gardner is going to get the ring? He's just going to take it and say the oath? Do you feel like he just wandered onto the football field

to rush or Nebraska and just sort of like prided off his finger? He was there crunching tape. He heard that Noah had made allstate and he's like, I got to see it with my eyes. This guy couldn't get a ball through the fucking tire swing mere years ago. Okay. Okay, so this is like an interesting, we have these two paths, the ring chooses you or you work your whole life for it.

Yeah. But then like, is there not also an element of the ring needing to, this is just you could cut the ring off Siron's finger? Like the ring doesn't, there's no, the ring has no choice in the matter if you just take it and say the oath. Isn't this the way the guardians are changing the rules? Yeah. Because the rules have been the ring chooses and they're like, we don't really like the choices the ring is making. And so we're going to like bypass the ring rules. Yeah.

I mean, the rings they created in the first place, to be clear. So, like, I guess they can just change the rules of how the... Do whatever the fuck they want. Yeah, but earlier they're like, we trust the rings, you know, guardian finding ability. And now they're like, no. We don't actually. It's us. We got to do it.

Yeah. So interesting. John says... But again, like, if that's the case. And then Guy Gardner just, like, is watching Noah tape and then, like, takes the crusty, icy ring off of Hal's finger and recites the oath, which, like, where would he learn the oath? But like, let's say he does that. Again, I ask why the guardians aren't more proactively, like, get that guy out of here. Because Guy Gardner is certainly not who I would want to be my guardian of sector. Maybe they're just huge castle fans. It's entirely possible.

They love his hair. They do. I don't know. It feels like there has to be something beyond just, I took the ring and I said the oath that would like cement that in a permanent state. That's wild. Maybe they're just saying, we're getting. giving you the past because we, the guardians have decided that you're our candidate. So if you do it, then it'll work. Yeah, maybe. John's like, man, I didn't know you were going to make me do this by myself. I loved that moment.

I loved him standing up for himself there. I loved the tension in that moment. And then Leanna just turns it on him with such a quickness and says some horrible fucking things. I love Laura Lenny, the great Laura Linney's performance here, because it's almost bird-like, but also kind of alien-like, where she just does a little, like, cock of her head. And she's like, oh, yeah. Your father's weakness. Oh, your father's weakness. The, specifically the stuff about Bernadette's lies and the way that that was positioned to John who like.

And she's like, my gut said no. Which is so wild. It's like we watched this driveway scene. Like this is Leanna's ploy from the word go. Oh, yeah. You know. Gaslight. Yeah.

Yeah. And Hal's been filing these reports on you and he says you're not creative. And then John immediately going with the drawing. He's like, I'm creative. So good. You're too weak, Leanna says. And then John bites. He bites, right?

Tough. replies with the anti-Hal speech that we get to hear twice and Hal gets to hear in a very painful way once. Without the helpful context. I know. He's like, man, junior, he just couldn't wait to talk to talk to you. But I do love that at the end of that clip, when he hears it later, they do include you hear Leanna on the clip so you know who he's talking to. The ring's always been mine that assholes just keeping it warm. Tough.

Do you think that Hal really said those things about John and his guardians reports? Because on the one hand, he doesn't respect or care about the guardians. But on the other hand, he is threatened by John's presence there. I think he said that, but I think he also said positive things. Yeah. That feels right. That feels right to me. Yeah.

And Leon is like, let's not repeat any of that. Just go with the negative highlights here. Drill time. Drill time bonding. Boy, I love this. John Ghost House room shows them the plan. And this is the like, don't just go smash shit, right? Don't use your big green fist and just get shot in the head.

Let's tunnel in. Let's be thoughtful about the approach. Shows them the drawing and Hal says, did you draw this just now? Now we just talked about the, yeah, I'm creative reply. This is one of many moments in this stretch and just in general in the episode where we realize, undeniably, they know nothing about each other. I was really struck by that. Who are you, he says.

Yes. Who are you? I went to art school. The art school thing that obviously John does not know what he's about to learn about Hal's mother. These are huge things to not know about each other. And as they learn them, they form a more authentic connection to each other. I do think that I love this reinforcement of what we were talking about last week in terms of like the kind of constructs that our guy John Stewart makes. And it's just like here's a very complex.

complex schematic that I have drawn in intense detail that I am then going to employ. And that will work. John's... Johnster was title in the comics is the master builder. It's... I loved the... Made me think of Xander or Dracula, but that's okay. Bader.

Yeah. Bader. Master builder. Bader. I thought it was interesting here that just like right when John knocked at the door, how sees him and says, you're all right? Which was interesting for a couple reasons. later in the car

when Hal asks you okay John's like you've literally never asked me that but actually he has and also just because Hal can kind of clock that something's up because John has just had this very intense

exchange that Hal doesn't know about him and he's like something seems a little bit different they're at the edge of the land prepared to tunnel and Hal gives John the ring so right away here it is an opportunity to do what Leanna told him to do immediately And this is such a long, pregnant stretch of John looking at Hal, looking at the ring, considering, thinking, and then not doing it. And, you know, later he will actually say to Hal, like, I could have done this and I didn't.

And I was going to give it back to you. And then when I asked for it again, it was because I wanted to show you what I could do. Like, we go through all those moments where he could have done this and didn't. Yeah. And I think that what feels interesting and true about John and Howell and where we are. with them is that there's probably a part of John right now who's just like, we have a mission. Like, we need to go and figure out what's going on. And I don't want to do this before that. I actually feel responsibility to solve this. And also that he's like, the string is mine and I'm

better suited for it than you are. And also that he's like, I don't want to do this to you. Not in this way and not yet. All those things feel true. Fascinating. It's Hamlet. Think about killing Claudius. Isn't it always? Yeah. It's the best for a reason. Now I'll do it. Classic for a reason. The drill itself, the other thing that, I love what you're observing about the intricacy of what is required for this to work. And then I loved, love, love. We are in their point of view. They're behind it.

So they're watching it move forward. And it is, there is a yellow force that is pushing it for. There's like the engine, the apparatus. And that manifests on screen is a yellow thing inside, the yellow fear inside of the green construct. So fitting because of the conversation specifically that they're having. Did it make you think of the sweeper in Labyrinth where it's just two little guys on a bicycle at the end of it? Now a reference I understand, which is thrilling. Yeah.

A wonderful stuff. What do you think Ludo's up to? Oh, just being friends of rocks. Yeah. That sounds right. I love it. They move forward. And they start to learn more about each other.

This is where Hal's like, how did you learn all this? The art school reveal. And then John learns because How's like, how's your mother, you know? And John says she's great. How's yours? And Hal says dead, cancer. And for the first time, really, we see John snap out of his compose. The construct flickers out. Yeah. We saw John Stewart unconscious and the bird was still going. Un-fucking conscious and that bird maintained. But hearing this about how, because of the empathy and humanity, despite everybody trying to work those wedges, learning this thing about this person. He's not. He was. He was not. He was. Learning this thing about this person. He was. He was. He, he. feel something because of what John's parents mean to him. And so the sorrow, the sincere sorrow that he feels for Hal in that moment, thinking about what it would have been like for Howe to be without both of his parents, was just really struck by that.

And also just the way that Hal says it. So like flippantly, you know. Yes. Hal just confirms what Carrie told John in episode one that he's alone. This is where he said it makes it easier. No ties. He will sort of return to that idea later in the car so we can talk about it a little bit more. Then the other interesting part of this exchange.

here is that John asked what his dad was like and Hal says, fearless, at least that's what he wanted people to think. What was he afraid of? We're here. So this is like what we've been talking about all season and marching toward. This is just Hal projecting, right? Fearless, that's what he wanted people to think. That describes Hal himself.

Fearless, that's what he wants people to think. Loved hearing this from Hal and knowing that he has that level of awareness. Right? But also, yeah, like, what's this story? with his dad. Are we going to get a Hal flashback, do you think? On the one hand, I would really love it. On the other hand, I'm sort of living in fear of a full, like, de-aged Kyle Chandler episode, given how just absolutely majestic and perfect he looks now. But some scenes I would take, what was he afraid of the way that Hal looks at him and then doesn't

answer because they arrive at the end of the tunnel? I like the idea that the answer to that is he was afraid of leaving his family, which is, of course, John Sr. and that that could be a source of connection for these two. That's kind of what I'm hoping we'll learn. Okay. We'll see. Anything else on the tunneling in and what they learn about each other here before we get to the weenie. But I do love when watching them both Army Crawl and like thinking of them as both having like military backgrounds was really fun.

And then, yeah, I mean, techorama. Okay. What is that fucking? thing in the middle of the room. So they get into the weenie and then they're surrounded. There's the armory, right? We see guns everywhere, but there's the tech and they talk about this. And we've talked about the tech all season and Hal has been like, this is not common tech. And then we see it everywhere. And there's this like chair. Is it a workbench? Is it for surgery? Is it for manufacturing a manhunter's form? You know, what is that that Hal is about to walk toward as he

activates the pressure alarm? It also says, give me my ring, but then we put that on pause for a minute because pressure alarm. Yeah, it's interesting because so in the comics the Manhunter's often used Kryptonian tech. So like, is this a cryptonian device of some kind?

I don't know. I mean, my instinct is this is how we make more Manhunter. That seems most likely. I mean, it looked like... It could be like this is how we take cancer out of the body, but like that seems to be like

the stuff that they have in the hospital. It had a little bit of a... When I first looked at it, had a little bit of a like advanced super tech, yeah, kind of medical bay like stirrups at the bottom thing. And then I was like, this feels like a Manhunter body fabricator. Yeah. That was sort of ultimately what it looked like. So how many Manhunters do you think there are if this is a fabricator?

I'm still trying to like parse how much I think everybody knows. It feels like the whole town understands that there's some bargain that has been made that has allowed them to benefit from this fortune. in terms of who knows about Zoe's identity specifically, right now, my guess, which I am prepared to be very wrong about, is literally no one, not even William. Oh, I think Megan Sr. definitely knows. I feel, I like the idea that he's like, she's my savior, she was my nurse. She was my nurse. But what if she's the nurse identity as a decoy to, I like the idea that she protected her the truth from everyone. But, I mean, who knows?

Maybe he knows. Does Ellie Ben know? Like, do the members of the militia? Do the other members of the family know? No one knows except Ailey Ben. Just Ailey Ben. Or is Ailey Ben a Manhunter? Maybe.

Is everyone in that family a manhunter? Is Jason Ritter a manhunter? That seems. Is Lil Noah a manhunter? Maybe. I mean, maybe. Do Manhunters have an Aviator Nation sponsorship? Do they make, is it Allstate?

He's Allstate quarterback in Nebraska. You know how good at football. You have to be for that to be. True. Do you have to have like a mechanical heart? I mean, we got to, unfortunately, we got to cut young Noah open to find out because great moment when Hal's like, can't, can't, only way to do this to know for sure is? Does Jason Ritter feel like too hapless to be a manhunter? And if little Noah is a manhunter, then Carrie, Sheriff Carrie has to know, right?

Yeah, what does Carrie know? What does Carrie know? What's going on with this family? I like the idea of Jason Ritter being a man. Something's going on with Jason Ritter, for sure. I mean, I do think it's interesting when Hector Hammond says, not Hammond, Guter says, Will Macon. Yeah. Right? Yeah.

And you're like, which. Which will? Yeah. Billy? Yeah. Could be Billy all along? That would be great. He's for sure he's on the suspect list.

No question. I mean, it's Jason Ritter. I know. And he's like not around, kind of. Yeah, he's been in there. Yeah. Which feels like kind of the right. Much like Zoe, honestly, the right calibration of screen time.

We're like, we're thinking about you. We know you. It would be like, oh, that guy if you were actually revealed to be Secret Scroll. Yeah, it would be, it's good Secret Scroll casting because we haven't been seeing him. But we also, and I actually don't know how widespread the Jason Ritter fandom is, but we are huge Jason Ritter fans. But like, for us, we've not forgotten that Jason Ritter is bumping around town, you know. Exactly. Nor will we.

No. Nor could we. Pressure alarm activated. This was wonderful for a couple reasons. Great movie. Good movie, great movie. Just like a couple pros who like Raiders. I love it.

Of all the things to bond over, it's like everyone agrees that Raiders is a great movie. Whether or not you should fuck a married woman and Raiders is a great movie. We've really made some progress here in this relationship. The What Do You Way? Because we've got to do the weight swap, right? We've got to adhere to the canon of the film. 185-ish, perfect kettleball. Is that a kettlebell?

Yeah, kettlebell. I don't go to the gym, kettleball. And then, all right, we got to time it. We got a time to swap. You're like, here we go. And then just immediately the alarms flare. And how perfect comedic timing, I did say ish. Okay.

Killed me. I'm 99.999% sure they're talking about Raiders. Like, of course they probably are. However, there is a very similar scene. I do not think these two guys. were bonding over Monuments Men. But there is a very similar scene in Monuments Men where Mad Damon's character triggers one of these.

And like the whole core has to gather around him. And they're like, how much do you weigh? And he says 175 and then like John Goodman gives him a look. And he's like, no, I don't think it's that. But John Goodman gives him a look. And he's like, well, it was 175 in college. Just like a very similar like 185-ish moment. I do think it's Raiders.

I obviously think that. But I was just like, I don't know why I was thinking about Monument's Men. I think about that movie, a weird amount. Why not? A weird amount. Lantern's Movie Club. This is what I'm hearing. Yeah.

What might Hal and John be referencing in any moment in time added to the syllabus? Lethal weapon, too. The, if you're nothing without that ring, then you shouldn't have it. If you're nothing without that suit, then you shouldn't have it. It comes into play again here because the militia comes in. They've got their special glasses so they can see through the darkness guns. They fire the darkness guns as how well-known short order. Those seem tailor made to disson.

label lanterns because you need to be able to use the ring see. Fairy G. Gray being like, hey, isn't it weird? Yeah. That they have special anti-Spiderman tech? Totally. So are we building toward John being able to forge constructs without being able to see? Such as the depth of his artistic inner eye. The master builder.

Bader. People who didn't listen to the Buffy pot are going to be like, what is going on? You know what? It serves them right for not listening to the Buffy Pond. Okay, well, let's talk about Macon's other weenie. We go in. He is at his desk. They're brought Halen John are brought by the militia into the office.

Macon's at his desk. He's in a robe, as we'll see shortly. And he's on the phone. And he's saying, sir, and 200 ahead and tonight. What is he talking about? Cattle? Cattle. Just because the slaughterhouse business is a part of the...

He never sleeps. A part of the rooms? But also doing that business in his... robe and nothing else. Real Beth and Rip Dutton vibes here. I don't know what that. I mean, I understand what you're talking about, but I don't know what you're talking about. Okay.

Great. Great intimidation move to just like get naked. But also when he's like, what's your medium? Yeah. Fetch some charcoal and some good stock. Not even good paper stock. Good stock. And they have it?

Yeah, they do. Are you talented? Are they like an artie family? I mean, maybe. Or they're just prepared for literally any scenario? If he had said watercolor? I mean. If he had said mixed medium, actually, like, what are they ready?

Did they have this around before? You know, oil paints? That's my question. Or because Zoe's like, I know everything I need to know about this guy. Or can that fabricator in the warehouse make literally anything and they're like, make us some good stock? Good stock paper and charcoal. Use a little thingy. I want to say.

Earl gray extra hot and then also some good stock. Well, I could go for an oil gray extra hot. That sounds great. Just want to say that I appreciate this show because didn't have to allow us to linger on the actual sketch at the end of this scene. He is talented. Yeah, he's, yes. Who am I talking about? Exactly.

Which elephant indeed. Congrats to William Macon. What did you make of of Macon asking Zoe to stay? That was like one of those moments where... That felt like a decoy moment to me, where it's just sort of like he's in charge and she has to do what he's. says. That was one of it's funny because that was one of the moments from like, does he definitely know who she actually is? It really felt like a, he thinks he's in charge. I think he does. Yeah. I don't know. Interesting. I mean, who knows? I just like that possibility. Yeah, yeah.

It's probably a lot more logical for him at least to be fully in the know, given that he is tasked with actually executing the maintenance of this cult across Rushville. I like the idea that she just didn't tell him. I like it. How's like, can you put your dick away? Oh, stir up partner. And...

Sherry says the same thing. The couple that asks him to put his dick away together stays together. Dad, put your dick away. Really made me laugh. That was great stuff. Dad is an interesting thing for her to call him. Really weird. Yeah.

And she's like, it's not like that with Jason Ritter, but like, you know, not everyone calls their in-law dad at all. And she has seemed across the season to have a lot of resentment, Not seemed, has had a lot of resentment for the fact that he is the real source of power in the town. And she's like, I'm the sheriff.

I need the power. That was interesting. How, you know, certainly the observation about the darkness guns and how they're there for lanterns. And Macon doesn't make any attempt to deny it, right? He's like I told you, we're going to be ready for any kind of invasion, any potential threat. This is where we get the, oh, benefactor, boss, savior, God conversation. And here's what we learn. He did cure my cancer.

That's how we met. Zoe was my nurse. Kept me alive after the doctor said I was a goner. Then he came, worked his magic, and voila. His magic, so to speak. Everything changed when he showed up. Crops grow, kids thrive, and you saw the hospital. No one gets sick.

He takes care of us in exchange for our protection. Colty. This was the moment, I will say, when he was like, he cured my cancer. Zoe was my nurse. This is the moment where I was like, there is no way she is not the Manhunter. Yeah, like that is that is the moment where it's like, and if we don't find out before this episode's over, I'm going to be very annoyed. Yes, definitely. Or a manhunter.

That's right. Hal says we're not leaving. We're not going. Sorry. We're not going to go. And by the way, you can't kill me because if you do, all of the other Lancers are going to show up before you can even hide my body. And Macon is completely unfazed. He says he's not a lantern.

I'll just kill John instead. What I really love is that, like, yeah, I'll kill John instead and he's like, go ahead, do it. I don't care, right? But I love this larger plan of like, we can't kill the lanterns. We, the Manhunter or the Manhunter cult, whatever you prefer, we can't kill Hal. Probably can't even kill John because then the other lanterns will show up. So all we can try to do is get them to leave. Is get them out of town. And so when Zoe later's like, just trying to protect you, can you leave?

You know, darn, right? And then blowing her up. Okay, maybe if Zoe's dead, maybe they'll leave. Right. Or they think they have, you know, like, all of this is just sort of like, can you go? Yeah. Can you just go? And then we can all go back to pretending like there isn't a Manhunter hiding here.

That would be great. I was really just so struck by Leanna also being like, why are you guys still here? Yeah. That is fascinating. Yeah. What are they hiding? And how much of it is about Carrie's bangs? Will we see Carrie's bangs?

I hope so. Okay. I hope Hector Gutierrez boots up the footage of Hal just... I mean, if you're a lost fan. Yeah. Jack Shepard's flashback bangs are just like an all-time important piece of lore. When we get a tattoo episode? Hmm.

Sheriff between Gotham and... Anne Rushville, she went to Thailand, she met Biling, and she got some strange tattoos. And she said to someone along the way, let me tell you about Oz Cobb. Oz Cobb. Okay, so Carrie, at least seemingly in the flow of this episode, puts it on the line here by challenging Makin. He says you're making a mistake. She will tell Hal and John that Zoe called her. Yeah. That's interesting, right? Break up the little Macon sequence here. fascinated by that and then Carrie drops in a motel gives them a little bit of a scolding

I've broken into Billy's files I'm this close this was another like I don't know what's happening here I've broken into Billy's files I'm this close like to what

and like you never had the impulse to try to learn about this before that just doesn't make sense back on Carrie Watch gives Hal the ring he says sheriff not even a first date and she says do you ever shut off, which was really funny.

Poor Hal. The Hector John Howe moment at the slaughterhouse later where in the most high tension, there is a ticking three-minute clock and a satellite explosive pointed at John's parents. And even then there's time for Hector to be like, is he always this insufferable? Give us John a rifle. Tells them Macon is going to comfort them. And then John, this is when he's posted up. he's keeping watching. He's on the phone with his mother and he shares the news about the ring.

You know they're going to make me take it. And she says, Bernadette says, then take it. Don't tell me you fell for that man. And John says, oh, come on. Bernadette says, he is a charming motherfucker. And John says, I know exactly what the fuck he is. My feeling is that you don't have this exchange unless John is in fact falling for that man. Do they have, but like, what's the relationship between John's mom and Hal? Other than the same. scene we've seen. The kitchen scene. Yeah, I mean, I guess just that they have been studying him over the years. Because he's like, how's your mother? I mean. Say, how do your mother for me, you know? It's great question. How many other interactions have they had? And just it would just be over

the last couple months. Yeah. But certainly, Bernadette and John Sr. have been watching and observing Hal as this fabled figure with this level of like, that shit that was meant to be ours. So the idea that he keeps people like in his thrall because of his charm, that feels certainly like something that they would think. Lights suddenly coming in through the shades. Phone call ends. Gun up. Door opens.

It's Zoe. And John keeps that gun up for a long fucking time. So you think he already knows. I think he's like something's not right here. If he actually knows, then knowingly fucking the Manhunter doesn't, I don't know that that totally tracks from me. But I think he's like what, you know, when he says to her in their little post-coital cuddle cuss like, I think you're lying to me.

So I think he's like. I think he knows. I wonder if he knew from, like, the cafe scene. I mean, the fact that once again in this stretch, she's, like, asking questions about how, and of course, as we clocked at the time, asking a lot of questions right away about how Jordan and this relationship and the way,

with SpeedCob, have bosses, all of that. So not the most subtle line of inquiry about, like, hey, so, like, would you mind telling me some things about how Jordan the Lantern Corps, the Guardian's not asking for any particular reason and want to go fucking my truck? Yeah. normal conversations to have.

I did enjoy this sex scene. This was hot. That was great. Really? Huge fan. Everyone looks great. Incredible. Shot really well.

I like how the dialogue and, you know, sort of them in the midst, post-coital, saying goodbye was all sort of edited in out of order. I thought that was really fun and dreamy. I really liked it. Quite, quite, quite good. The cuddling after sex, this is when Zoe's always like, it's got to be the last time. You need to go. Your options are to go or die. Got to go.

And I don't want you to die. I love that the manhunter's, like, main weapon is seduction. And she's like, I'm going to come fuck you. And in the aftergo and be like, you got to go. I just want you to be okay. I'm just trying to protect you. You got to go. I just want you to be okay.

You read this all wrong. I don't owe him. He owes me. He was dying when I first met him and I saved his life. And now I'm trying to save yours. Which is like potentially true. Yeah, genuine. Yeah.

Yeah. Self-serving and genuine at the same time. Yes. Uh, yeah. seems like they have a real connection, real spark. Real spark between. How many people has she had a real spark with, though? I don't know.

I don't know. I mean, does she have to seduce the whole town or is it just Makin senior? You know what I mean? That's, I like that. That the reason Makin just is always like, you know, the taste better off another man's grill is because Zoe has fucked every single person in Rushville. She's like, I just had to. It's just my tactic.

Sorry, my defense mechanism. Drives off. Do you think she seduced Abins her? It's entirely possible Yeah It's entirely possible Like oh fuck he meant like Never knew

He said good luck or off fuck Yeah Quite amusing when Hal is asking about Abinster later And basically just does the full Little finger like pull up your hood memorable shade Memorable shade

Zoe drives off and is immediately exploded by a satellite Just point Just fucking point Hal retrieves this Hal, John and Carrie, who joins him under the protective green bubble, are trying to figure out where the satellite came from.

And it was incredibly easy to figure that out. Just had to unscrew a plate and then put a serial number into the system. Yeah. And there I was. And John's like, hey, guess what? This is bullshit. That was really great. Like, you think we just, like, you're the space cop.

You think we just cracked it in the motel room was such a good John moment. And, you know, credit to Hal because he is ready to just, like, run right into it. Big green fist. Yeah. he's like, good job, Junior. This is the like, you would have at least given me a hurrah. Yeah, right? From episode two.

And it's like, good job. Here's some praise. So I quite like that from both of them. So you were not when Hal did the little, like the little, just finger, the little finger handhold with Carrie here. And Carrie's like, what am I going to tell Noah? He was his grandmother. He already completely overcome my emotion like I was watching the little handhold. Beautiful.

It was. And even just the looking, the way that... When I die, I will mourn you more deeply than that. Then what am I going to tell? We both know I'm going first. She's my call. And then there will be a very intentional lingering shot of you looking at like an item that I left behind. You know, because we watch her looking at the bracelets like they're my chapstick or something.

We'll just be right there and you'll be like... And uncrustable. No, I will have taken that with me to the grave. Like pharaohs of old were buried with their loved ones. You want to bury me with my uncrustable? I love a snack, as you know. I love a snack. Okay, so Maken had NDAs with Atlas Vermin Rucker, but this is Atlas Inc.

Hector Hammond. Shout out Peter Sarsgaard and his gigantic. I'm Hector Hammond, Farhead, Parallax Hive Rise. I'm so happy for you that you get this modicum of payoff for having Rewards. watched the horrible Green Lantern movie. Incredible. I'm happy for you. Incredible stuff. If anyone has not seen the 2011 film Green Lantern, keep it that way. Now you know what you need to know. Yeah. That was a fun little connection there. In the car, on the way to the slaughterhouse that is 95 miles away, Hal asked John how he's doing. And this is when John is like stunned,

says that Hal never asked him that. And Howell says your girlfriend blew up in front of you. I'm handling it. Kind of look like you're shutting down your feelings. Real, like, physician heal thyself stuff from Hal here, I thought. Is this, sorry, I asked you before we started recording, is this where they're talking about the other members of the Lantern Corps? Or is in a different scene? Different Car ride?

This is the same conversation. Yes, they will talk about the avoiding relationships, and then John will ask, do you talk to other lanterns? Yes. It is. Some Lantern Corps? Please. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. Scrolls? So, yes. I mean, there's a scroll called Chip, C.H. Aposter P.P. Great. Love that. Incredible stuff. But the idea of the lantern core. Yes. So this comes from Steve Englehart, who takes over the comic. So Steve Englehart is really controversial and interesting figure. But wrote for both Marvel and DC. And according to him, and you always just like just an entire warehouse of salt whenever Steve Englehart is like, according to me. Okay. Sure. So according to Steve, D.C. begged him to come over to save them.

Okay. He had worked at Marvel. He had worked on a Captain America storyline, the Nomad storyline. So like when Captain America gives up his title, less hot in the comics, but very hot. Inspired the single hottest. Very hot when Steve Rogers is a beard. But Captain America giving up the nomad title and Falcon, it was Captain America and Falcon comics. And so Falcon being the hero.

left behind, Steve Engelhardt is like, good job me. Black superhero. Look what I was doing in the 70s. Aren't I amazing? So they brought me over to D.C. I was working on Justice League of America. What they asked me to do on Justice League was really differentiate the characters on the Justice League.

Like, we had not really found who Batman was yet. I mean, Steve Engelhardt, if you listen to him, is like, I'm the reason the 1989 Batman movie is so great. Like, I did this, I did that. So, like, these are all of his claims. But I do believe this idea that, like, D.C. really looked at sort of what Marvel was doing with their characters. It was like, we, we have these great characters, but we haven't done a great job of, like, individuating them.

So we have this Justice League team, and let's really bring out various personalities. And at this time, don't worry about why, but, like, Hal Jordan's off the table. So John Stewart and Guy Gardner are sort of in the mix. And Guy Gardner was really a character, really was shaped by Stephen Englehart at the time into like who he he didn't invent him but it like shaped him into who he became right but what i like about all of this green lantern core stuff and green lantern core was his idea so like a lot of lanterns at once and all kinds of different lanterns and like he didn't come up with the squirrel that predated him but he came up with a kill log which is like a really important member of the green lantern core etc etc just an incredible sentence but what it he didn't come up with the squirrel

but what i like about all of this is like you you come up with teams like like Justice League or the Avengers or the X-Men or the Fantastic Four or whatever. A reason to have these sort of teams of superheroes is by putting them in contract, like in close proximity with other heroes, you can really figure out like what their specific identities are, what their individual profile, personality profiles are. And especially with something like Green Lantern Corps when you've got like a bunch of heroes who have the same job, the same title, the same whatever. you know.

Yeah, sure. And so like, you know, it's like on flash when you have like multiple flashes and you're just sort of like, okay, now I really understand who Barry Allen is because I've met these other flashes, right? And so it's like, I really understand better who John Stewart is because Guy Gardner, what the fuck, you know? And so I just really like this idea. You mentioned this from the beginning.

The Green Lantern core is this sort of like connected network and the possibility if we're talking about how Jordan is someone who's like, no. ties, darkness, no parents, like, et cetera, et cetera. And this opportunity for community is here. And John Stewart was like, why have you taken advantage of it? He's like, well, none of them are human. He's like, well, I'm human. What the hell? I'm right here.

But like in general, but you hate having me around. Bond with the squirrel, man. You know. I'd love to see it. And we know that he's met, he knows about Mojo because it's a planet and it's his password, you know, and so like

the Green Lantern core existing and Hal being like, but I'm not really part of it is of course very interesting, but also just like as as the premise of this show lanterns with an S is to not just like introduce us to John Stewart outside of the animated world into the live action world off the page of the comic, but to show us to these two guys. And what is putting these two guys with the same eventual title and job really show us about who they are individually? I love all of that.

I really loved that John moved from hell saying, like, let me give you some advice and it's to avoid real relationships into asking about the core, that that was a thought that John had in a connection that he made and something he wanted to understand. And it makes me think too back to like what we were talking about with the hallowgram. And I was like wondering, okay, but he's already out of the suit there. He's not in the place we find him in 2016. He's still uploading himself, but then he stops. And like, because one, You know, when Hal is saying here, keep people at a distance for their own safety. It's a lonely fucking job.

And it felt like I was saying earlier in this pot that a real loss had informed that kind of comment from Hal his parents, both of them. But like, maybe it's a love interest or someone else. Carol. Yeah. Or what else has happened where he's like, I can't get close to anyone anymore. Right. Because it's pre-senestro because, or pre-senester betrayal because we have a clarity on that timeline. And then you build toward that.

And it's like, okay, so the one, maybe we go from Hal to like, how, how far. family guy, Hal relationship guy, how Lantern Corr guy, shit, I, it's all gone. None of it. Like, that is just so fucking sad. It's so sad to think about. And, you know, on the back on Carrie, carry watch corner front, that little finger grab, like, we've seen a lot of wisecrack and smart ass shit from Hal Jordan. The, like, he's falling for this person. He can say across this episode to John, don't get close. Don't let people in. I'm telling you it's for their safety.

Really, it's to protect your own heart, right? Are you nervous about where that leads? Yeah, I'm worried. What's the message of that then? Okay, so if, like, Carrie, if his fondness for Carrie, yeah, leads him down a path that winds him up frozen on that, that bleacher. And so then is the message, like, the one, when Hal decided to open him up to someone that got him killed?

I hope not. What I would still love most is for Carrie to actually, despite all of the signs maybe to the contrary, to be good and fine. Okay. And for them to fall in love and have a lot of sex. We only have four episodes left. Let's get on it. Tick, talk. That's the real ticking clock, folks are coming.

Forget these 36 hours and Anton and the alien hit squad. When are these two going to fuck? And for, you know, as Hal and John both make this progress of kind of rejecting the rigidity of these strictures for how to allow himself to feel happy. and to form a connection to somebody. That would be wonderful. That's my hope. Right. I think it is possible,

not that Hal, it is possible, I think that maybe somebody else seeks to take advantage of that. Like that if Hal is forming a connection. Jason Ritter. Fucking Billy Macon. Hmm.

That would be great. So when John's like, okay, yeah, what about the other answer? I'm a human, but you hate that I'm around and I'm like, yeah, I do. Then John kind of shuts down again, right? He's like, all right, what's the plan? Yeah. Give me the ring. I'll use you as a decoy.

Okay, so we had the decoy comment with the chopper. We have the decoy suggestion here, which Howard Jacks, right? He's like, you're good, but you're not as good as me. And then just full Eric Taylor mode when he says, I like the confidence, though, Incredible. Coach was back for a minute there. Then later with Heptor, I think you're a decoy. Three distinct moments in this episode where the idea of a decoy is invoked. Doesn't feel like that's necessarily just going to be contained to this episode and the reveals in this episode. So what do you feel like the decoy that they're signaling towards is? I don't know. Just all the stuff we already talked about today about what beyond actually Sinestro in the cage. It's a decoy. Maybe. Yeah. Oh, God. It's not actually the guardian.

I mean, that's a, we've already talked about this. That wasn't really William Macon's dick, stunk cock. He was an elephant. It was an actual elephant. Not that one was so funny. Everything's a distraction from Ailey Ben. Ailey Ben is just so good. It's so good.

Okay, they get to the slaughterhouse. Yeah. This is where we get that we can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals. We get the PA voice. Remember, security, the first step toward a safer environment. Stay secure. Stay vigilant. And yet not a.

single person there. And when they're like, cares that I'm done with these weird people. That was really good. Really, really good. Also, this is why I'm a vegan. Like, great punch-up lines inside of this episode. Jazz, that can't be good.

Jazz, that can't be good is very funny. It killed me. Yeah. That was disgusting. The laser, I mean, the portal tech, first of all, always interesting. The DCU so far just obsessed with portals and pocket dimensions and all sorts. That's always fun when we get to see something. Indeed.

quite. Poor cow. This was gross. That felt more like a peacemaker scene to me than a lantern scene in terms of the level of blood and violence. Did it make you not want to have a steak? I've actually been wrestling with this a little bit in my life in general. All meat? I have at least, Adam and I have been talking about it.

I feel real conflict because I love, I love, you do. Meat, I love a steak, I love a burger, I love a chicken tendi. Yeah. But I love animals. and so I feel really increasingly I've been served a lot of like Instagram reels lately many of which I've sent to you and Steve

and then you're like this chat used to just be about cats now it's just literally all animals and you changed the name with the group chat I'm brutal I've gotten all of these reals lately about like a chicken

who's a pet and it's like look at this chicken I should you know the octopus thing that happened to a lot of people look at this hippo look at this chicken look at this whatever

you know what you would love the ducks who eat the Peas. I love them. Where I live in Silver Lake is like right by some kind of PETA headquarters. There is a disturbing PETA billboard like right by my house constantly on rotation. I would not love that. And its goal is and it's at a light that I have to sit at and its goal is just to like devastate me. I don't know. I feel conflict. I do. My best friend who's also you. Nice save. My other best friend. Great save. Wonie pork. because of what she's learned about how intelligent pigs are.

Yeah, but then it's like this is a lot of people with an octopus, right? That's where a lot of people are, like the most intelligent creatures. Yeah, I don't really eat octas. But I mean, yeah, but some people do and then they're like, I can't do it anymore. So then it's like, but where do you draw the line?

Anyway. Chickens too dumb to live. Absolutely. I feel very tortured about it lately. So this scene really, I was like, oh boy. A lot of important people in my life are vegetarian and I support this lifestyle. I don't know if I'm prepared to commit.

Chicken would be tough for me to give up. I could probably give up. Pork would be fairly easy, actually. I don't eat it that often. I'd miss a pot sticker, but that's about it. I hate so much bacon. Beef? Yeah.

I mean, I had a burger literally last night. And ribs. You had a burger and ribs? Yeah. And devil eggs. My second time getting deviled eggs this week. Those other double legs are really good though Fucking delicious

But chicken would be really hard As you know I love a Tendi And a chicken wing A crispy chicken wing What about like a Saitan tendi? A fake meat tendi I actually quite like Because it's really like a soy and

Yeah it's the breading and the dip sauce That's really like Okay we can carry on It's something to think about Arjuna is in the control bar right now We are vulnerable Yes We are vulnerable Pita

We can be got apparently Just keep sending those Instagram reels to Mallory and she'll send them to me. The algorithm I am. At least you don't hit me with the horrible slaughterhouse images. It's actually not that.

I would not watch those so then they wouldn't be in my algorithm. It's more than I'm like, look at these, look at this chicken who became a pet. Oh my God. Look at these ducks who people have like, they've fallen in love with the golden retriever. Yeah. And then I have to confront my own hypocrisy

and vileness. with a burger in one hand and then you're like using the rib to scroll how do you scroll if you're eating ribs in a burger at the same time question for the ages

that's a really good meal I appall I appall myself horrible they find Hector in his office type in away drops John's parents

address if I die they die how's like yeah you just acting like you invented it you know great stuff from Hal here

sets the alarm three minutes, time's ticking, and place the tape of John talking shit about Howe, which we have discussed many times. I thought that John here had the real good grace to look pretty embarrassed by this. That felt important.

And a good reminder to us that these microphones are always on. Always on. Halstays cool. Quist is Hector. Oh, what color was obf and sir? My gut tells me this is bullshit. You're a decoy. I'm gonna call your bluff.

An old friend told me some stuff about Manhunters. This is the Crystal Heart thing. Refer to Sinestro here as an old friend. I was like, oh, no, when I heard that. But maybe Sinestro's right. Like you said, who knows? Maybe it's fine. Is it fine?

Probably not. Just because the guardians are bad doesn't mean Sinestro's good. Should I get like a hoodie to mash the mug? I mean, I'd go all in at this point. Like a trucker hat, Senestro was right? That would be great. Okay. You could pull that off, I think.

Right at home on the Macon Ranch. Would have cared. about John's parents before I just heard that recording quote, but now I'm starting to think you know, a hero's journey it should really only start

after the parents are dead. Hal Jordan come on the podcast. All time line. We would love to talk about the hero's journey with Hal Dian. Give us your Cambelian days out. We would love to hear it. Absolutely incredible moment.

Let's hear what you, how you reconcile the idea of refusing the call with the demand of the ring that you accept the call immediately. No refusing the call inside of your hero's journey.

Interesting. I mean, incredible stuff. off here. Okay, so John flipping out about his parents, can I read the same one we got from Christy? Please. About sort of her critique of what we saw from John's parents in last episode. She said, I would think a fearless boy is a loved boy, a guarded boy, a boy born under a lucky star. Nothing bad can happen to you because the guardians are watching out for you. The men on the street can't harm you, not because you are brave, but because you are lucky and

chosen and blessed. If I wanted to create a fearless boy, I'd brainwash him into overconfidence. Maybe that's partly why Hal was fearless and the point the writers are trying to make. I just don't think John is fearless at all. I think his parents were cruel and he's conditioned to follow orders regardless of fear, which is so sad because they express that fear, that they express that fear is a normal part of love. A man should be afraid to die when his family needs him. A boy should be afraid to kill his brother's mom. But I hope that by the end of the show, we learned that we can't really be human without fear. We can't really love without fear. How can we be a good guardian without love? So, like, I don't think Christy is saying anything that, like, we haven't said versions of in terms of, like,

this show is, I do not think that the show is trying to say that what John and Bernadette did to John is the right path forward to fearlessness. But, again, I am curious about yes, he is fearful and obviously like born out of love and fear and protection for his parents. Yes, he's still talking to them on the phone and stuff like that. But like I because I love John and I'm rooting for him and I think he is a great candidate for a faith that I actually don't think is a great faith for anyone. I don't think being Green Lanter seems like it's great. But if he wants it, then I want it for him.

But like there has to be some kind of reckoning with what was done to him. because I just don't think we can leave it there and be like, well, that was the path forward, you know? Yeah. I mean, I think what we see from John here, the fear of loss of someone close to you, is where John Sr. was and what Bernadette works her way back toward eventually saying, you know, that you, it's not a bad thing to not want to hurt the people you love or, of course, by extension, to lose the people you love. Yeah. You know, the language choice of like for in the your obsolete Mr. Jordan Hector line here, like that must be terrifying. There are so many moments here that are a direct appeal to fear, right? That must be terrifying.

It's just another version of, are you afraid? So the fact that like in a sequence where John is exhibiting such very authentic organic fear, I would be deeply, deeply afraid of losing my parents because despite it all, I love them and I don't want anything to happen to them. Hal's fear is being pressed very directly. It's all there for all there for all of them. House Gambit works. So that's just going to cement the like my gut, my gut stuff, right? My gut's fine. Carrie's fine.

This is fine. They're safe. John says, Symmestro, just a blip. Everything else? My old friend. My old friend, my old friend, Cini. What if you were fucking wrong, John says?

Like, okay, your gut, you're gambling with my parents. life with my fear. I'm never wrong. I'm never wrong. That's what you say, right? Especially during the fantasy football drafts, right? I'm never wrong. I posit more that fantasy football is about knowing you'll be wrong many times in being able

to. Pivot. Overcome. Being able to have. Having the will. To overcome fear. To overcome fear. How can a man be brave if he is afraid?

That is the only time a man can be brave. Hector Gutierrez, engineering student. He. came to offer the tech to help my family who, isn't it obvious? Will Macon. Billy. I mean, there has, I mean, maybe not, but like it feels like there should be a reason they're both named Will Macon. But maybe that's just John Stewart Senior, John Stewart Jr.

Just sort of like, this is what we do here in this universe. Frosty car ride home. Yeah. Boy, how. So let me tell you, of all the striking things, the thing that I was most struck. I mean this sincerely, Hal Jordan's sitting quietly. We just have not seen that from him. He's just talking a mile a minute, talking shit, ripping all singers.

And his face was severe and he was driving and processing and connecting the dots, as he's about to say. Yeah. About what this all means. About Zoe. He's like, they keep saying he. And that John knew. And that John had figured it out and not told him. Of course. But like, I feel like I believe Hal in this moment when he gives John basically like one more.

a chance here. Same. Same. To be honest about Zoe. I was ready to forgive you. I'd forgiven you. Like, I believe him. But John is just sort of like, yeah, making senior, obviously. Couldn't be that lady I've been fucking. I loved this so much because like as we talk about fear and fearlessness through the lens of connection, attachment, emotion, John can say all of the things he says here. I haven't told the guardians, because I'm doing, I'm doing this with you. I didn't want to tell you because I didn't want to tell you because I wasn't sure. I, yeah, I started to think that this might be what was going on. Hal is saying, don't get close to anyone.

And John did. And now he's like, yeah, it was definitely willing to make it. Like, badly, clearly lying, kind of discombobulated in a way that is not true to the John that we have seen so far. So, like, is this the Manhunter brainwashing influence at work here? Here's what we get on that front that Hal shares with John, presumably because Sinestro has told him this, Right. They're ruthless. He's my old friend. They assimilate into communities by attaching to weak spots.

Tough to hear if you're John. Wolf. Yeah. They find a path to power every time. And if they identify a threat to that power, they'll manipulate that threat into believing anything they want them to remind you of anyone we know. I will just say that, obviously, how's talking about Zoe? They find a path to power every time. and if they identify a threat to that power

also describes Carrie and the way she's talking about Makin, right? Share Carrie. Now I'm nervous, I'm nervous, I just want these two to fucking be happy. Get a second night stand, Hal. What if both the lanterns fuck a Manhunter? I mean, that would be great. That would be great.

Why not? Why not? Seem like it was fun. It seems like everything in Rushel is going fine. Seems like as long as you don't provoke the Manhunter, everything will be fine. And that's what Zoe's told everyone. This was also a satisfying scene on the everyone's lying all the time front because obviously John is lying.

But even Hal, I agree with you. I had the same, like, when he was like, I gave you a chance here and it would have been fine. But the other, like, I believe you. It's all good. Really? Like, that's a register, like a vocal tone that we have not really seen or heard from Hal Jordan. So everything's a fucking mess. John saying he was going to give the ring back.

You believe it? Believe it completely. Believe it. It's a kernel of doubt. I choose to believe. I choose to believe as well. I choose to believe as well. Guardians saying that Hal broke the vow, and he says, I did.

I saw Sinestro. You might not want to just accept everything that the guardians tell you. Look at what they're doing to me. This is one of those things where hopefully that is received and processed. Let's go back in time when Leon is in your projecting herself into your motel room without being invited in and is like, oh, your father's weakness. Horrible. Horrible. Your mother was full of shit, actually.

Told you about the crystal heart? Among other things. Now, that builds into the ruthless assimilating, attaching to weak spots. But, I mean, it also just makes our theory brains go nuts. What else is Sinestro saying? Among other things. What other things? About whom?

What will Hal do with that? How susceptible is Hal? Very. To what Sinestro tells him. Interesting if he's very susceptible. I agree. I'm concerned. I'm concerned.

I'm worried. Hal pulls over. Call the alien hit squad. They don't want me there. Tell him to meet you. This is smart of Hal, at least. He doesn't just crash the car. He's like, make the call first.

Bring them in. Then I'll run you into a telephone pole. So nervous as soon as he started to drive again. So nervous. John hangs up and there's that great tense moment where he turns to look at Hal. And Hal says, I really did forgive you. I thought you'd be honest about Zoe.

And the just, like, okay, here's what I piece together. I thought it was weird that you didn't seem sad when your girlfriend blew off. Yeah. But I thought maybe you're made a stone. Yeah, you liked her. I really loved the way that Kyle Chandler said that line. I knew you liked her. Yeah.

Yeah. Also, I know that because I'm a person currently falling, falling deeply in love. Do you think Cairys a manhunter? What if Cary's an alien? What does that mean about like the senior photo from Gotham? Hi. What if Carrie's something else? Senior photos.

Be banged something else. I'll be banged something else. She's a guardian. Oh, interesting. Are we going to see other guardians? That was another my bullshit detector went off when Leanna was like, I checked with all the other guardians. Are we sure? Oh, yeah.

She's gone rogue? Yeah. What if Leanna's just doing her own shit out of it? I would believe it of Laura Lennie. I believe anything of Laura Lennie. Who else should be... Do you want, like, the rest of the cast of Ozark? You want a Jason Bateman Guardian and a Julia Gardner...

I'd be thrilled. Julia Guardian? I'd be thrilled. Let's get Wyatt in here. Okay. Tom Pelfrey Guardian? I mean, that would act. That would be wonderful.

Tom Pelfrey would be great in this show. You would. Fantastic. Then I tell you freak out about your parents, like, connected the dots. you're not sad about Zoe because you know she's alive because you know she's a manhunter. Why didn't you tell me? Your gut, junior. Great moment there.

I haven't told The Guardians anything we've been doing because you asked me not to, oh, except that I'm old and tired. Sorry about the rental. That was a real, like, you hurt my feelings. Like, I'm a person and you hurt my feelings, except that I'm old and tired. I loved that. So good. Hope John's okay? I mean, we know he is, but like, damn.

I know. What's going to happen with these two? Next episode. My God, I'm nervous. Well, I think the enemy of my enemy is my friend. So, like, even if they're fighting between the two of them, if there's, like, yeah, an angry alien force is now invading Rushville. And then, like, what will the citizens of Rushville do?

and I have to imagine that John and Hal have to be on the same side inside of that fight, right? Or do you think John is going to be like, I'm Team Zoe actually, sorry? No, that seems... I fucked her, it was too good. How good could the sex have possibly been? Out of the truck?

You don't know, the possibilities are rightless, man. That was great. Like, with some room to move. Boy, that was really something. Yeah. The, like, many reminders that the Anton Alien hit squad will blow up the town if the Manhunter is not presented. So like the stakes are clear.

Yeah. Now we should, we should note we have seen in episode one in the final scene 2026 when John is back driving through town in the snow. The making range is destroyed. Decimated. Is that because of what's about to happen in episode five is 10 years between those

moments? It could have been something else. And no one rebuilt? What's going on in Rushville? I mean, they're all multitasking. With all that multitasking. With all that multitasking. And a time to rebuild the ranch. Maybe that means they were busy doing other stuff. because they had like bars to run.

Okay. I don't know. Anything else that we haven't hit, Theory Corner or otherwise. I feel like we really did it. Fantastic. We will be back for episode five. Next Monday, we will be back between now and then

for Buffy Season 5, Part 2. Delightful. Thank you. Carlos isn't here today, but thank you to Carlos always. Thank you, eternally, Carlos. Thank you to Scott Lee for producing this episode. Hell yeah.

Scott loves this show. Scott loves lantern. So this is just exciting for everyone involved. Thank you to Jacob, Arjuna, Jomi, our entire. green, lantern, core. And the squirrel. And the squirrel.

Chip. How did you say Chip was spelled? C.H. Apostrophe. Incredible stuff. Incredible stuff. Until next time. Just keep in mind that we should be able to concentrate and take personal questions at the same time.

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