House of R - 'Lanterns' Episode 6 Deep Dive | House of R

Episode Date: September 22, 2026

Jo is joined by Rob Mahoney to dive into Episode 6 of 'Lanterns.' Our guardians speculate about Noah Macon and his role in the story, discuss the story's shift to 2026, offer their Sinestro thoughts, and more. (00:00) Intro(03:24) Opening Snapshot(19:42) Deep dive(29:38) John gets into the panic industry(33:32) Where’d you go, Bernadette?(38:31) Tell no one(49:15) The scene of the crime(51:35) Chekhov’s bachelor pad(01:02:31) Autopsy table for one(01:05:21) Fortress of storage(01:10:08) Billy, don’t be a hero(01:14:16) Noah wants to be president? I’m sure this is fine.(01:16:38) Don’t be that guy(01:26:05) Self-eulogizing(01:41:48) Outro Hosts: Joanna Robinson and Rob MahoneyProducers: Jamie Yukich and Devon BaroldiStudio Production: Jacob CornettSocial: Jomi AdeniranAdditional Production Support: Arjuna Ramgopowell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, welcome back to House of R. I'm Joanna Robinson. It is not Mallory Rubin. It is Rob Mahoney. Rob Mahoney, how are you doing? The pregnant pause worries me. It's like Guy Gardner flying into Rushville. Don't put that on my hair. That's a very rude thing to say about anybody.

Everybody supports and admires your hair. I don't think that's true, but that particular bull cut, deserving of any horrible thing you can say about it. It's a tough look. All right, we're going to dive into the bull cut, the white leather, all things Guy Gardner. right after this. All right, Lantern

Season 1, Episode 6. Mallory Rubin is on a much-deserved vacation. Yes. I was taken ill last week, which was our plan to sort of pre-record. What was the plan if you had fallen gravely ill? Was it just going to be me solo potting House of Art? Were you ready?

No. Do you think you could crack the four-hour marker if it was just you? You know what? The depths of, I feel like a solo pod, if you can get over the 20-minute hump, the depths of insanity you will stumble into will take you into three and four hours. What's the subject matter that you think you could go longest on if you needed to just like NBA aside?

Yeah. Like pop culture wise, what's the subject matter that you could easily crank out four hours? The Beatles biopic experience. I almost sent you the video of them coming out on the balcony. Did you see it? I got to say I'm coming around on mescal Paul. But Joe Quinn George is like really tough. That's not the one. We're here to talk about lanterns.

Season one episode six. Um, lanterns season one episode seven will come out maybe Monday, Tuesday whenever Mallory comes back from vacation. After that, we're getting ready for Vision quest. We're going to do a Wanda Vision rewatch. Remember WandaVision? What a delightful show. What a delightful half a season of a show. Nope, the whole thing.

And so yeah, we'll be watching Wanda Vision. And then later this week, though, I am doing a book recommendation podcast, House of Reeds. So you guys have been doing a really good job. The listeners have been doing a really good job. Sending in their book recommendations, Hobbits and Dragons at Gmail.com. Rob doesn't read fiction. No. How well representable nonfiction be on this list?

Zero percent, you know? Unless you have some suggestions. You can't do like a nonfiction history of witchcraft? Like, is it below you? If only there were a book about like the Marvel Cinematic Universe or something like that that I could recommend. Like a New York Times bestseller, perhaps? Possibly. Something to think about.

We'll see. So that's what's coming up. Follow us on socials, subscribe to the podcast, wherever you get your podcast. Email us, as I said, at hobbons and dragons at g-mills.com.

Spoiler warning for today. Lantern's up through episode six. I don't have a lot of comic book lore to drop on people today, so I don't think we're really going to do like a ton of like lore diving today, but it could come up. Any other spoiler warning you want to issue?

I think they'll come up as they do. Okay. You know? We'll dip and dive into spoiling. I'm sure all manner of things. Great. Let's go to the opening snapshot. Episode six, I'm just now thinking about your four-hour Beatles

by a big podcast and how much I want to watch it and listen to it. Don't turn to me with a good time. Episode six, bad optics, directed by Stephen Williams, written by Justin Frick Gibson and Damon Lindeloff. Justin wrote the previous episode. Stephen Williams directed a previous episode this season. And these are all people who have worked with Damon Lindelof before. So this is just like a very Lindelofi-versy episode.

Rob Mahoney, I haven't really talked to you in depth about lanterns at all. Somehow we've dodged it. We've just been talking about slow horses and a number of other things. How are you feeling about the show in general? And how did you feel about this episode? I really enjoy the show a lot. Tell me. I think I've just found it so surprising.

Not just like the twist and turns of the plot, some of which are conventional. But like I think the adult nature of it, there have been more like hearts removed from chests than I was expecting. I think part of the reason that certainly the Marvel TV experience, but honestly also the Marvel movie experience, had kind of worn out its welcome was like the guardrails were so clearly defined. We've seen so many of these movies now. We know what they can and can't show.

We know what they will and won't do. Even just the idea that in this episode, like I really thought when we got the flash forward of howl with a hole in his head that this is some shenanigans, right? Like this is a misdirect. This is like they somehow manipulated the halogram to do this. Like there's going to be a way where Hal Jordan is still alive because you don't cast a character this big with an actor this beloved and then take him off the board. I will say there are still people out there who are clinging to that theory.

I mean, that's proof enough that like we just want someone like Kyle Chandler doing this kind of stuff. And it's been so fun that I'm just amazed at what they are willing to do in the places that they're willing to go with this show. So you mean narratively or you mean like in sort of the violence sector or do you mean or maybe all of the above or do you mean sort of like when you're talking about the guardrails for the MCU, I don't know if you meant like sort of from adult content point of view or if you meant, you know, sometimes the MCU would like to say, oh, we're doing these various genres in this film or that. And some, you know, we're doing Winter Soldier. We're doing espionage or whatever it is. conspiracy thriller. But there were always sort of limitations because they were trying to fit the puzzle pieces back together.

And I'm not just here to take some shots at recent MCU for no reason because I think what's really key about this episode is the experiment of can we do a true detective gritty-esque show and still make it fit back into larger continuity. So can we drop Guy Gardner into this world that we've created and does it still feel like it makes sense? And on the one hand, yes, and on the other hand, I know. Like, yes, it does. Like, it really works. I was really nervous about it, but it really works. But I think it only works because he's such a punchline character. It's true. That he shows up looking like a cartoonish buffoon inside of this hyper-realistic world, but it like goes with his character. Do you know what I mean? But not only does it go with this character, it goes with the lanterns. Like, as an

Like as an organization, there's just something inherently goofy about the idea. The magic ring, nature of it. Like, I enjoy lanterns as a concept the most when they're this weird, goofy political apparatus of people like, these random-ass aliens who aren't even trying to get along with each other, they're just all going in different directions at once. Like, that's what makes them fun. And to me, it's, it kind of grounds them in a way. It's still like interstellar and intergalactic. And they're space cops.

Yeah. But have your space cops be goofy enough and understand that in context to each other. I think that's just been the question this whole season is like in terms of the bright green constructs or in terms of Sanestro being here. Like how goofy and comic book do we want to go? And there are certainly people who are like, it's not green and goofy enough or, you know, or it's too serious or it's too dower. And I just think something that Mallory and I've been discussing is just sort of the line they've been walking. And inside of this episode, you know, which is very light on Kyle Chandler, which I, you know, I think the more Kyle Chandler, the better.

And I'm really relieved to see that the hologram is going to be used the way I was hoping it would be used, which is to extend. Possumously. Yes, extend Kyle Chandler's, he can just be around as much as they're willing to pay him and he's willing to leave his ranch in Texas to do it, you know? And so, you know, something we've been worried about is tone and humor. And I think in a microcosm sense inside of this episode, when you get something like, Hal Jordan's self-ulogizing, right? And you've got John with his own complicated relationship with Hal, reading the eulogy, and it is so, like, genuinely funny and then it is genuinely devastating.

Like, I hope I matter. Oh, my God. I hope I mattered, I think it's just going to go down in history. It's funny, I googled that phrase before the episode came out. And there are certain, like, things that hit or whatever. And then I googled it after. And obviously, like, it's, it's juiced by the. fact that the episode just came out, but like now pages and pages of results are just

this show. And that's when you can get a, you know, to go back to Wanavision, when you can get like, you know, what is grief of love for disappearing? Like, I hope this is not that. Why do you, why do you have such hatred for that line? I think it just became so outsized. Does it feel very like, nevertheless, she persisted to you? No, it was almost just like, this is the totem that we're going to hold up to show that the thing we love is serious to everyone else. And it's just like just love the thing you do in its own self-evident truth. It felt like trying to prove something to other people, at least the way that line was weaponized on the internet. That's not, I don't believe I ever weaponized it that way. But I think what I, what it feels like

when you hit something like, I hope I mattered, which is not highfalut in language. It's very simple, but it drills down into a universal truth. And I think that's what, what is grief, but love persevering does. But when you hit something that's, you know, just like feels so true, feels identifiable and quotable and just sort of like, I hope I mattered. Yeah. Really pops. And so in general, like, was this my favorite episode this season? No, but I really, really liked it. I had been worried about like, how is it going to feel when we're just solidly in the 2026 storyline? How is it going to feel to not have as much Hal Jordan around,

you know? And I think the first time I watched this episode, I was a little off balance with it, but on subsequent rewatches, I've really come to, like, love this episode. I think the lack of hal is the important part, right? Like, if John Stewart is going to be a lantern of relevance for the future of this cinematic universe, like he needs to be able to carry stories like this without Kyle Chandler in the frame. Like, Guy Gardner cannot be our only mainstream canonical lantern forever. Well, no, and John Stewart is going to be like our lantern. I mean, too big a character.

Like, I mean, most of my introduction and association with that character is through, the DC animated stuff as are a lot of people of our generation, I think. You're using our generation incorrectly. Am I? Yeah, your generation. Who is your John Stewart? Like, how did you find your way in? From people younger than me watching the animated Justice League.

I wasn't trying to date you. You don't have to outch yourself in this way. But when you started to say that, I was like, yeah, because Rob's of the generation and younger for whom John Stewart is your lantern because of the animated series. We've been talking about that a lot. And so, like, he, I love that. I love the decision to put John Stewart, who was such a sort of, like,

third-tier comic book lantern as the A-team animated lantern for a generation. And now he's our live-action lantern. Like, it's really, it's thrilling, honestly. I think it will be thrilling. And this episode may be more than any of the season is the proof of concept of him as a solo lantern experience. You do have guy coming in for the punchlines.

Yeah. But this is, like, like, like, without how he has a lot of frame to fill, a lot of story to carry. And I personally was delighted at how often this just drifted straight into Rebel Ridge territory. With Aaron Pierre just being surrounded by guys who he needs to beat up, sign me up for as much of that

as you would like to do. You're like, where's the road bike, though? Where's the civil forfeiture happening in here? It's true. One thing that Mal and I had been sort of speculating about it was possibly a way to use Kyle Chandler was to give us flashbacks to what he was up to between 2016 and 2026.

But now that's like, for the most part, off the table, because he was locked up for the last decade. I mean, we can check in on what he was doing. Well, we know what he was doing. In prison, writing letters. He was making the moves. He was courting. I mean, he's going court.

Look, clearly no one in this show and in the world is immune to Kyle Chandler's charms, except for John Stewart. Like, he is the one who seems impervious. I don't know. It kind of works on John, too, I think. Certainly by the end, all it took was one self-written eulogy. He's like, man, I'm back. Yeah.

All I know is like Bernadette went from lifelong grudge against this man. Fuck this guy who sat at my kitchen table. Now she's like sending him pinups for the long nights in prison. This is unreal. Is that what you think was going on between Bernadette and how? I think there wasn't nothing going on. Okay, okay. What do you, Rob Mahoney, think you would do if you got a voice memo from Kyle Taylor?

Calling me buttercup? Calling you buttercuff. I think I would be more receptive to it than Carrie would be. Oh, I don't know. I think it kind of worked on Carrie. I think the idea of we are finding our pet names seem to work on her. I just can't imagine a universe in which she accepts Buttercup as like, okay, this is the one we're settling on. What do you think is a, what do you think the endearment that she would go for would be?

That's not for me to say. Okay. I'm just basing up like, yes. But like the person, you can't choose your own endearment. You can't choose your own nickname. You can't choose your own endearment. give a certain amount of veto power. For sure.

I think she liked buttercup. You think so? Yeah. I think there are people like Sheriff Kerry who are hard asses all the time and want to be buttercpped when they're at home. I think that's true. Hard ass in the streets,

buttercup in the sheets? Correct. Or buttercup at least while you're watching. Sure. Cuttled up under the fuzzy blanket together. Split in a pizza. Yeah. And watching the scurs?

The huskers? The scurs, apparently. The scurs, I don't know. You know, let's leave that bee where it's, in the Midwest. But I think regardless of however she would have reacted, had Howe continued to live, now she has to accept it because this is the voice memo she holds dear. And I'm sure we'll replay many times throughout her life. Sad. Yeah. All right, quick mailbag from our listeners, just a couple this week. So on those sort of people still not being willing to give up the idea that Hal Jordan is still alive somewhere, our listener Bill wrote in to say, can't believe Stewie using. Guy Gardner's nickname for John Stewart, went to all the trouble to dig up Hal's corpse

and didn't cut his heart out just to make sure he's not a manhunter. He knows there's a mystery going on in Manhunterville. He knows that Zoe didn't change back when she died. Got to make sure that the corpse is really Hal. So would you Rob Mahoney and all your skepticism endorse cutting out the heart of Hal Jordan

just to make really sure that it's Hal Jordan. Okay. So that email is from Billy? Bill. Bill. What kind of sick fuck are you, Bill? Do your favorite down the camera address. Are we just cutting the hearts out of everybody now? Every corpse that rolls through the morgue? Well, are you not? I mean, Bitsy probably should, but like, I love Bitsy. I mean, who doesn't love Bitsy? But like, where are you on the larger? There is another Skywalker. There is another Manhunter theory. Of course there is. And y'all have been all over it. Noah is obviously a manhunter. Okay. Why else is he is?

the show. Okay. Follow up email from our listener, Joe. If we find out that Zoe named this kid as a not subtle anti-lanterns message, Noah equals no Oa. Let's chalk that up as, he was just going

through all of Zoe's mistake and he was like, he's like, yes, naming children is tough and she wouldn't be the first villain with a desire to coyly mock her adversary looking at you, Ridler. It's fine to settle on Noah for first couple suggestions were Manny or Hunter. But if you're trying to hide another Manhunter, Let's keep her eye on the goal and just name him Kevin.

I actually think Noah's name, I mean, I love the idea that it's Noah. Yeah. I think it's like. I mean, that is cute. I think it's Noah. We're repopulating the earth two by two. That's why I think he's named Noah. I mean, we are going arc heavy in this episode.

There is an arc reference. A little arc reference. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I guess the question is, do you think there's any more than Noah at this point? Noah feels very solid. Well, our theory had been that perhaps Billy was like a shittier manhunter. But the way he just went down. down with one punch from John, I'm taking Billy off the Manhunter board.

Well, plus, and look, this is where it gets a little uncomfortable with the NOAA conversation, but one of the definitive things we know about Manhunters is they fuck. Like, this is what they do. It's true. And look, everyone wanted to fuck Zoe constantly. And it kind of seems like the whole town wants to fuck Noah. I mean, that- Everyone's like really into the hat ceremony.

I had never considered that modern courtship in sports today is really just, the scholarship and recruiting of a hat ceremony. Wow. Think about it. Joe, you're blowing my mind. There is a scene. I kind of spun out trying to hear what they were saying. When John's at the dinner table at Sheriff Kerry's house and she gets a phone call that's like,

hey, did you know that John got into a straight fight with Billy and some rednecks? Noah and John are carry on a conversation in the background. Yeah. And the only thing that closed captioning grabs is like the last. line where he says something like Lila is great, thanks for asking. Hoping that it's a Lila Garrity sort of nod who's to say.

But he says that. And so then I was like, okay, what were they talking about that that's like the end? And so I go back and you hear, it seems like John had been hearing rumors of like Noah's many exploits because he's like, I heard of Elisa or a Lula.

Like he's like, he's like Mambo number fiveing like naming all these girls that Noah's dating. So if you're talking about like who in town has game, I love the hat ceremony sort of like sports analogy, but I also think Noah quite literally is like cleaning up with the L named girls of the town. Yeah, I mean, especially as opposed to- Like the five teenagers who are left in Rushville.

I don't know. And maybe this does kind of feed into Billy as failed Manhunter because that guy is just swaggerless. And frankly, like some of it is having Jason Ritter, an actor, I think, has many great qualities. Deliver threats of physical violence. It's just like one of the least believable things on this show. And what's true about Jason Ritter is I believe he has this like inherent sort of nerdy swagger to him. Yes.

So they've like asked him to turn off all of his charisma for Billy. So yeah, I don't think he's a man. I don't think so either. He could be like a shitty failed manhunter or just not a manhunter at all. That seems most plausible. But Noah, I mean, I would be shocked at this point. And really the tell of all tells in this. this episode. Even if you were never on this train, you didn't buy it to this point.

Lanterns asks you to bend your belief in a lot of things, right? Like there's a magical ring that has infinite capacity to construct anything that your imagination could possibly dream up. I'm on board. Sure. A 18-year-old sits at a dinner table and says the phrase, I love politics in 2026. This is an alien. He wants to be president. I'm sure it's fine. Don't even worry about it. he has like a nine-year-old wrote to FEMA. Don't worry about it. It's fine. Everything's going to be fine.

I'm really excited for Billy to be our new. Billy for president, honestly. We've done worse. You know what we have. Let's go now to, it's not going to be a classic Malarubin deep dive, but we're going to call it the deep dive. Yeah, without Mao, I mean, am I deputized in this situation?

Like, I can at least. Buy the power vested in me. I mean, I would think. And the podcasting core. I can feed a plant. I can drag. I could do something, but, you know, obviously it's not going to be as to do. Dragon sit?

Yeah. What kind of dragon sitter would you be, do you think? Attendant. Okay. You know, responsible. I want to like treat them enough where they like me, but not so much that they're spoiled rotten when Mal comes back. Of course. No, no, no.

You got to keep them lean and mean. On the Noah front, and then we'll start at the beginning of the episode, but on the Noah front, at this point, if he's not the killer, that's, then they will really, have surprised me. Do you know what I mean? Well, so walk me through Noah as killer. Because admittedly, I will say this is my biggest blind spot on the show right now is it's established in this episode that like whatever it is that killed Hal,

he saw it coming, it's like head on, nine millimeter relatively close range. It's either Carrie or it's Noah, that's what I think. It's either Carrie protecting Noah. Yes, as she promised to Zoe that she would do. Or it was Noah himself. Yeah. I'm of two minds about it because there's a part

of me that really suspected her. And I like all the moments inside of this episode where she's like, do you think I did it and called you and this is the cover for me doing it? You know, they're sort of like lambshading the lampshade to sort of just say like, we're just going to say your theory. Yeah. And if we say it, you know, sort of thing. But I agree with John that she's actually quite heartbroken. Yeah. So she could have.

But couldn't she be heartbroken because she had to kill him? She could have killed him and been heartbroken about it. The reason I'm worried that it's or I'm wondering if it's Noah. Because I like the idea that it's Carrie desperately sad that she's doing it. And he just sort of like, does he say like, it's okay buttercup? And like let's her do it. It's okay buttercup. I think he might have even encouraged her.

Okay. Oh, no. You think in the it's okay buttercup. Like I know like you have to do this. I have to be here. This is what it's got to be. But the Noah thing to go back to what Zoe said earlier about killing Abin's sir. You know, when she tells John about that.

And she's just sort of like, she didn't want to do it, but it was sort of just in her nature to survive. So I feel like Hal has figured out is on the case that Noah, that there's something going on with Noah. Like I think Hal, I think he's genuinely there for Carrie. Like, I don't think he's in town just to investigate Noah. Yeah. But I think when he's there, he's like, why does this entire town want to fuck this kid? Like, oh no. Is he a mini manhunter?

Well, at the risk of Buffy spoilers. He's got the Letterman jacket. It's a powerful thing. I can't believe you're referencing a season seven episode of Buffy. There are some bangers. Actually, I don't know that that one's a banger, but it has its qualities. I did write Never Kill a Boy on First Date when John's like, I love an autopsy. It's like, I've seen that before.

Let me ask. Yeah. I didn't have a chance to listen to the last episode of House of Our. Please forgive me. Oh, I do. Did you comment on the official like fighting via lampshade in a show that has been lampshading so heavily. I mean, they're literally beating the shit of each other with lampshades. Brilliant. What a show. This is why. What a series. This is why you're the best.

But like, something that Zoe said to Noah right before she died when she's like, hey, you're a manhunter. I'm a manhunter. Remember the lessons that I taught you when she said that in the last episode? She literally said it. So Zoe said to Noah right before she died, what did I tell you about spying? And he says, see you without being seen. And inside of this episode, we get Carrie saying to John, I just, Noah and I never went there. Like basically, I never told him that I was dating Hal. And then in this episode, Noah says at the dining room table, I know you guys were together.

Do you think I'm a fucking idiot? You know what I mean? So he, it feels like he discovered, using this sort of like, see without being seen, discovered that Hal and Carrie were in a relationship. So could that have been a reason for him? to do something. But would that be reason enough to kill him?

I think it's more that he felt like threatened by Hal and could have killed him. Or Carrie felt like no, it was being threatened by Hal and felt like compelled by her program, you know, her all programming, the way in which they're all sort of under the sway and the spell of the Manhunter. Like where are your obligations? And I think that would fit in really well for the larger conversation the show is having about like where, where. where does your allegiance or your obligation lie? Like the way in which John is being pulled in nine different directions inside of this episode between his brothers and his parents

and then like the pull of Hal and the pull of the ring and the pole of Rushville, I think that's sort of like where does your allegiance lie? Same with like Hal and Sinestro and the guardians and all the sort of thing. Like what law do you obey? And oughtn't be something inside of you?

And I think that's what's so interesting. interesting about where we find John here in 2026 because we're watching him. We know he's going to wind up being a lantern by the end of this series. One would think. We have two more episodes, right? He's got a ring on his finger now. It's back. That's great.

But he has, he rejected it before. So 10 years later, what is different now that he's choosing it? Like, what's eating meat now? Oh, okay. That's it back on the menu. Okay. It's just the iron? Honestly, it might be.

You know? He's a different man. Well, look, I think there is the. larger, some of the quaint idea within the larger theme that you're exploring there is like, can you ever have a normal life if you were raised to be chosen one space cop? Not just like, who do you listen to? But like, is that even a plausible thing to want for yourself or to expect? I think the answer from this episode is like pretty clearly no.

Like every time he attempts to have it all, it just blows up in his face. People are hanging up the phone. Things are going wrong, left and right. Like that doesn't seem like something that would be in the cards for him. but like he is trying to protect people in his own way, I guess, as a civilian, it's just like there's a limit to that. Like you can only put 20,000 people even in your little dream arc shelter, but you put that ring on your finger and anything's possible.

And it's like, how do you resist that pull? I don't know. To give a little like prestige TV cross promotion, were you thinking at all about the storage container apartment pitch in Slow Horses? They look exactly like them. It looks exactly like. that. Except these are, I mean, blast proof, disaster proof, starfish proof? You don't think Sternloy is, uh, is given us that? I don't think the integrity is quite the same. Here we go.

John gets into the panic industry. Um, he's in midway, he lives in Midway City now, which is, as I'm sure you know, Rob, home of Hawk Girl, uh, canonically in the DCU. I do love Hawk. We all love Hawk girl. I'm going to be honest. Who doesn't? The turtleneck and the overcoat look, which he wears in like various, you know, earth tone hues inside of the steps. Like, this is really his look that he's unlocked. Phenomenal. Oh, you think his earth tones might speak to us? I think we look great.

Arjuna let us know that it's the fall equinox tomorrow. So we're just sort of representing for the autumnal colors. I think we felt it. Yeah. In the same way that John, I'm sure, felt it, the chill in the air. He's like, it is turtleneck season. But it's very, like, polished detective. Very much.

You know, sort of like Jesse Elmorton Law and Order kind of like, look at my overcoat moment. And I think it looks fantastic. It's an incredible look. I think you should only wear that forever. It looks great. If you've at any point in this show been complaining about, oh, why don't they wear the Green Lantern uniform?

It's like, this man has a uniform. It's just a turtleneck and it looks amazing. All right. So what do you think the show is trying to say about the fact that John no longer lives in Detroit? He's moved to Mid-City. Is it just like this distancing from his parents? Yes, which is all over this episode, right?

Like, clearly there's been a massive falling out. There's some hints as to why that may or may not have been the case or whether people are reading the situation correctly, but he refuses to talk to his dad. He's now on first name basis with his mom, not always a great sign. So there's a relationship with his brothers, clearly, and, like, they are trying to kind of hold everything together,

but things have changed for him a lot. And I think trying to move on is one thing, but trying to put some distance between you and your parents as a whole other way. But it's all transactional. Like the relationship that he has with his brothers, you know, like in one case, funding his music career, right? That's a clearly sort of fractured relationship that's based entirely on what can you do for me. And then with Marcus also, like, even though they're partners in this particular endeavor, like, it's still Marcus is like, what can you do for me?

Yeah. Chosen, chosen. I mean, he's not part of anything resembling a traditional family structure. Like, they are his brothers, but they know that he is singled out in a. different way than they are. So this, I mean, this is why I think part of his pitch is so interesting, right? So he's pitching this idea of like, to the sharks. The fact that he is pivoted to, are you a shark tank guy? No, but I mean, this was like, hello sharks. I'm looking for 300 million for 20% of my company. The fact that he's pivoting to mitigating damage from superheroes versus

like being a superhero is, of course, super interesting. But he says, unnecessary loss of life, but even worse was the terror, right? People should never feel that scared. I thought I was on the right path back then, but I was actually moving the wrong direction away from my family. So I did reconnect with my brother Marcus, and he reminded me what I wanted to be. So like the fact that is part of his pitch,

he's like, I've reconnected with my family, which we know is a straight up lie. So like what, you know, what is he self-deluding about or what is pure salesmanship here? And then also this idea of fear, which is, of course, something we've been tracking throughout the entire series. It's so core to the core.

But, you know, Hal accuses him of being afraid. Yes. Right? I mean, what's your read on that? To me, it's like, I think he kind of has him dead to rights there. I mean, Hal's gut is almost always right. It's very strong. Until it gets you shot in the head, I guess, on a bleacher.

But, like, I think Howl's right about his fear. But so is this, John has just ensconced himself inside of this sort of like, I was meant to be an architect. I'm going to make sure other people don't feel as afraid as I felt as I saw everyone feel. Is it the guilt that he's carrying from what happened in Rushville? Like, what do you feel is at the core of this? Is he hiding? Yeah.

I think some of it is probably seeing the fear of real human beings, just normal people in action, as their town is being torn apart by a giant space laser. Right. Like that is a harrowing thing that's like you train your whole life to be a green lantern and you think it's going to be one thing. And you're in the rubble and it's different. I think I'd get over it. I mean, I do, look, you're built of sterner stuff than most. Yeah.

But also, I think the fear... Right inside, it's crystal. No heart. You couldn't quite replicate it all the way. But 99% human, I would say. We do our best. I think the fear with how, that how kind of senses too, is not just, oh, you're afraid now because you've been in the shit. But like, the fear to me is he sees the fear,

or he feels for the first time that fear of like what having this ring will do to me. Right. He sees the effect that it's had on how, how closely he's like gripping. it with his last ounce of energy in the motel and is like, this guy has abandoned everything he ever stood for for the sake of this ring. If I take it and put it on my finger, what does that do to me over time? What does that do to these relationships that are important to me now over time? How does it warp my entire life? I think that's so interesting. And I think that's, you know, exactly yes, why we get that scene with him and Leon at the end of the previous episode where he's just

sort of like, I don't want it. Bye. Fuck you. But like, so to watch him now make that choice. Yeah. To watch him inside of this episode, dig a body up out of out of the grave in, in pursuit of the ring, to even hear from Carol, shout out Carol Ferris, who appears in this episode, but like to hear from her, like the only relationship Hal ever had

was with the thing on his finger. Like, you know, the, the Bilbo vibes are off the chart here with Hal Jordan. So it's interesting to watch John. If we agree that the ring has this sort of like corrosive quality to it, it's interesting to watch John, a character that we like and care about go towards that. Yeah.

You know? Well, I think he's seen that the corrosive qualities of the ring are not just when you wear it. Like that is part of it. And in that moment, that's the acute fear. But then when he refuses it, I think what's implied throughout this episode is all the ways that that corrosive influence is still there, just like your proximity to it. Right. I think to me, that's first and foremost in his relationship to his parents where from the

moment he rejects that ring, there's going to be like incredible fallout because the ring is supposed to give the whole family closure, right? Like, this is the thing his dad was refused and kind of like ruined his life. Yeah. It was the thing that his mom became so obsessed with. It's what it was all for. Right. It was going to justify the apple explosions and the abusive parenting and the endangerment of like,

we're just going to drop you off wherever the hell and you got to get home. Like, yeah. This was supposed to make it all right. And him refusing it, like, there's not really a matter of coming back from that as far as that relationship goes. And that's him not having the ring. Yeah. Let's talk about that a little bit more.

So like the arc language, which we already mentioned. So I just want to again mention this idea of like Noah and the arc gets like sort of an overt shout out here. But yeah, this really this chilly relationship that he has with with Bernadette, his mom. What she says, I guess, which in your mind means she's sending pinups to lock up for how. how do you reconcile what what she says here? We speak sometimes Hal and I were friends. Poor man has no family. He needed a friendly voice

when he was locked up and perhaps some racy photos to say. And we kept talking once he was out. He's different now grown. He's back in Rushville. He eats at the cafe every night, late and he's sorry and he wants click. How do you reconcile the disconnect between what Bernadette says here and what Hal says later? In terms of which part of what Hal says? When John shows up and he's like, I'm here from my

apology and Hal's like, what are you talking about? Oh, there clearly was never any apology. This is like Bernadette's last ditch attempt. He's sorry and he wants. So Bernardad is like, I sense that there's feeling here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And like, these are two, these are clearly two men who do have a lot to say to each other and would never be in the same place to do it of their own volition. Like, she, she knows her son well enough to know. If I bait this hook, he is going to jump at it. She's still manipulating. A hundred percent. Is your assessment here. I think absolutely so. And like, Hal is not wrong again when he asserts the reason she's talking to me in the first place is because she wants to talk to you and can't. Yeah. We got a couple emails from listeners saying they were really happy to sort of see, not happy to see John isolated from his family in this way, but happy to see that the show, that the message of the show wasn't John's parents were right to do what they did and the ends justify the means and all the sort of stuff like that.

It's just sort of like, hey, this was fucked up and abusive. and here's the fallout of like abuse, like child abuse is sort of like you lose access to that child as an adult. And I don't know if there is like some reconciliation coming for Bernadette and John and his dad. But the idea that it's not just sunshine and rainbows because like when Bernadette was like,

go to art school, it's fine, find your happiness. I was watching that and I was like, this feels like bullshit to me. And I feel like it is. Like if if their relationship fell apart and in Hal's estimation, it's not because he killed someone, but because he said no to the ring. Like that means that Bernadette. And we saw that also when Bernadette and John Sr. were on the phone saying like, hey, you have to call the guardians. Like, you're ignoring us.

Like, what are you doing? And in the 10 years ago timeline, like they were actively his handlers inside of that timeline. So like they never moved past this quite toxic decision that they made. And so maybe Bernadette will have a reckoning with that or maybe she won't. But I think it's, I'm really glad that the show, I feel like some people's interpretation was like, not that this was like a great parenting move, but it was sort of an understandable or something like that. I'm just sort of like, no, this is awful. It's sort of my assessment.

I mean, look, it's clearly awful. This is bad parenting. I don't think that's revolutionary. to say. But like, I don't, I feel like that was pretty well conveyed in the show. And like, frankly, the idea of even if you get the ring, but at what cost. Yeah. Like, that's an effective setup for this kind of hero and this kind of journey. And like, again, both in terms of which oaths is it going to follow, but also, like, he's a very different lantern than Hal Jordan in so many ways, just different people. But, like, he was not chosen. He was groomed to be this. And so it's like, if you grow a lantern

in a lab, yes, maybe he is raised without a certain kind of fear. but like what are the tradeoffs of that versus a guy who just kind of has an alien and a ring land in his lap and it kind of works and kind of doesn't. I like the word you used groomed. I think that like, what I think is so fascinating

about the Lantern Corps in general though is like who are any of these guys? You know what I mean? It's like... Gym teachers apparently. Well, like, with love and respect to the gym teachers out there, I'm not knocking them,

but Guy Gardner sucks, you know? Like, hashtag not all gym teachers, but definitely Guy Gardner, you know? He's not the head of the gym teachers union. He's not the best and brightest. The ring choosing guy Gardner is again, I go back to my question about like the, the thought process of the ring. Yes.

The decision making process of the ring. And then to your point, the guardians, or perhaps just the one guardian if Leanna has gone rogue from the larger guardian body. But like the guardians sort of grooming John into this position, like I think they all suit the ring in one way or another. Like it is important that Guy Gardner is not incompetent. Yeah. Like he's good at his job in some way. And Hal is definitely good at his job in some way. And John is definitely very well suited to this job.

But the frailties, maybe that's just the frailty of having like a human guardian at the end of the day. I mean, there's a reason it was not standard of protocol, you know? This is why we love drama, though. It's very true. The frailties of the human being. Characters will come around here. Absolutely. All right.

I'm calling this section, tell no one. Because this is like the keep, okay. Hal and John meet in the diner. Yep. In honor of Mallory, I do have to note the new jacket and the shirling collar on Hal. It's very, very important that we talk about it. Looks great.

Love it. Thank you so much. But what did you make of this? I took the fall. You fell sort of conversation that they have here. Well, so I think this is an important conversation to have, too, about like, How went to prison. Yeah.

And at first I thought when they're talking about this, oh, clearly he went to space prison, right? Like, he went to space cabs, spas cab. FASCaband, wherever Sinestro was being held. The lanterns brought him in. He went to space prison. No, he was in white collar pickleball federal prison somehow.

What crime do we think he committed? You would thrive in pickleball prison, don't you think? I mean, I don't know. As a tennis player, I have very particular feelings about that. But you've stumbled into a whole feud that I don't think we want to get into it. The runtime will swell on this pot

if we get to tennis versus pickleball. So another four hours on pickleball versus tennis. Let's just put it on the books. Okay. But like, what federal crime, do we think Hal Jordan committed exactly? Well, whatever the cover-up was, you know? I guess.

In the sort of like Buffy Sunnydale way, you know, if they're like snakes, sewer, PCP, like, whatever the explanation was for space lasers. Because like, I don't think that the, I know that the full story of Rushville is not out there. I believe there was like some kind of cover up. So, you know, he took the fall for, I mean, he's no longer the lantern. Yes. All of America knows that.

He was famous and he's no longer the lantern. He's disgraced lantern. Nobody came to his funeral. Not the cast of Harry Potter, not the Pope, not Barack Obama. Like, nobody came, right? Not even an alien dignitary. Not even one of the many tentacled creatures who he has had coitus with. Oh, tough.

To taste the pleasures of the galaxy and then to have no one show up at your funeral. Did it mean nothing to you? Wow. Empty. Brutal. But I don't know what the full story that has gone out there and I don't know. And I don't know enough about. federal prison and the laws that could be broken, but I think you could go with like,

nope, I've got no, I've got no suggestions. Hophisandrakis to do you know all.com. I'm honestly curious. I think the cover-up is the most compelling case. And it makes sense in terms of him taking the fall for the circumstances, but also for, like we have to say John's involvement in this too. Like I wouldn't say John is blameless in the fact that Rushville got wiped off the map effectively. That was my question.

Howell takes the blame for Rushville? does the blame belong to him entirely? And I don't think it does. No. And so I do think that like he's saying to John were square. Obviously they're not. He left John to die in a car, you know, that he wasn't like. I don't think that was the plan.

No, it wasn't the plan. He wasn't sure it would catch fire, but he didn't like. The car caught fire. Zoe left him to burn so that she could save him. She could fix him. And she did. I mean, honestly, we should, like, I think we should probably talk about that part of the Manhunter thing, too, not to divert us too much, but like... You want to talk about Noah again? You're in love with Noah.

I'm just, I'm fixated. I just keep gravitating towards him. But if you think about who the subjects or victims or like the people that the Manhunter targets, they're all, like, very desperate, right? Like, people who are on the edge who like needs something very, very bad. Carrying her bangs. Perfect example. Needs a haircut, you know? And so it's like... No, the opposite of a haircut. We need to let them grow out. I mean, you could shave it all day. You can start from scratch. There are options. Okay. But what if in the end, how was one of those people?

Like, what if he found himself in a position where he was potentially being manipulated at the end of all this too? By Noah. By Noah or by, like,

in the weird Noah carry orbit in some way where he was pulled into it. Like, he was someone who needed something very clearly, which is not just to find out who the other manned hunters were. No,

to share a pizza and watch the scurs. To watch the scurs to go back to this place where everyone hates his guts. and make amends and make some amends slash torture himself and it's like

maybe that kind of desperation reeked enough that a manhunter could pick it up from miles away. Do you think he said am I a righteous man? If there's any justice

in the university, he did. But sorry, we got completely sidetracked where even were we? Hal takes the blame for Rushville does the blame belong to him entirely

and I don't think it does. I think John are responsible obviously like Anton and his folks are right. responsible. Obviously, Zoe is quite responsible. I think Hal deserves some credit for any kind of cover that he gave to John, right? That John is unwilling to give to him, but I don't think that

makes them square. He's got a few more lawns to mow and groceries to carry before and like babies to kiss and all that sort of stuff before there's any kind of squaring. And he doesn't get to, I mean, that's what's great about this is that there isn't resolution between the two of them before he dies. Yes. That's actually like Mallory and I have been talking. about that all season of like, do we think they were in a good place when Hal died? No, how delicious. And even more delicious that it's day up, right? It's not just they haven't spoken in 10 years. It's we get this conversation. It does not go super well. Someone gets punched in the face and then that's it. Let's talk about that commute. Yeah. John goes from Mid City to Rushville,

back to Mid City, back to Rushville without changing his clothing. So it's like same day, next day sort of thing. I assume it's like a moisture wicking turtle neck. So it's like, I mean, it smells fresh. Okay. All right. Is he racking up the flight miles? Is he?

Do we know what state mid-city is in? I think generally Chicago-ish is sort of what they have said. So we're Midwest. I mean, mid-city makes sense. Yeah. But even still directs in and out of small town Nebraska. We got emails from Nebraska saying like there's no way that John, like, because earlier in the season when John like flew in and out.

there were like no way is John going to get a direct flight to nearby Rushville, Nebraska. So not a chance. Again, the fact that he went there, went back, and then went back again is a commitment to the cause, you know. And proof of these tragic circumstances that we don't get a second of him being like, Jesus Christ, I got to do this again. Like I got I got a-you just got off a flight. So maybe this is some recent trauma for you. That might be travel-weary and just talking. John and I'll do bond a bit of.

over talking shit on Guy Gardner. As one does. You know, is great. Do you think it's cool or cheesy when they refer to Gotham? This way, when they say ripped off that bat guy over in Gotham, too, put a beacon right in the middle of the fucking down here so people can summon him. I think the cheesy part is not the reference, but the bad guy. It's like the elliptical, like, hey, we're being cute.

Yeah. Everyone would just call him Batman. Yeah. He's very famous. He's Batman. Do you think it's just because they, like, haven't committed to their Batman and who he is? and stuff like that. There's no doubt.

Plus, I'm sure. Maybe they don't call him Batman in whatever it is that gun is cooking up, you know? Plus, I'm sure there's some like weird accounting till somewhere where when you say the word Batman in a movie, it's like some letter has to be sent, some check has to be sent and signed. Like, there's got to be some weird thing around IP that's like that hardened. To the to the cane finger estate. Okay. Do you think Hal goaded John into hitting him? Would there be a reason for him to do that?

I don't think he goaded him. He tells him he scared take up the ring. scared, afraid, absolutely fucking terrified, and then he gets punched in the face. There's just a lot of goading from various people, like Sinestro was goading Hal. Of course. Hal goaded, I just like saying goading. He provoked a group of people in the bar earlier in the season to like beat the shit out of him so he can land up in jail. So I didn't know if you felt like he was sort of doing some provoking here or not.

I mean, he's always clearly a needler. Like he just likes to antagonize people in addition to the, strategic goading. To me this read more as like Superman 2. I can't remember if it was the Donner Cut or not. But the part where Superman gives up his powers and then goes to a diner and

tries to intervene and just gets his ass like fucking kicked. Oh yeah. He's used to swaning around with the ring on. He's used to having it one way which is like if you punch me it's because I let you punch me. Yeah. Like you wouldn't dare otherwise and this is like even though it's been 10 years. And he can't heal it up

the way that he used to be able to. Absolutely not. He's a different man, but at the same time, like, he's still talking shit. But this is the most important thing that I think, or the most interesting thing, when he says, don't tell anyone you were here, please nobody. And there's like a desperation in his voice when he says that. And to me, my interpretation of that is to protect John. He says that to protect John. I agree. Right? Don't tell anyone you were here. And Carrie calls him about, you know, but like if, let's say, let's play the threat out, right? Like, let's say he has discovered that Noah is a mini-man.

Hunter. Okay. And he knows that he's in danger or something like that. Like he's just mere hours away from getting shot in the head or whatever. Bernadette said he seemed scared. He seemed like afraid of something. But he doesn't want that coming back on John anyway. He doesn't want anyone thinking that John knows anything.

Yeah. And so he's just saying, don't tell anyone you were here, please nobody. So that whoever's hunting me will not start hunting you. You know? I think that has to be it. That's my interpretation. The only alternative I could see was like, I don't want you getting looped in or blamed in whatever's about to happen. Like, he feels close enough to something.

But it feels protective of John. I agree. Like the tone, the desperation that you're talking about. I mean, it does speak to what we hear later in this episode, which is like for everything between these guys. Like, he does seem to kind of like part of John. He does like him. Yes. Because he doesn't say, don't tell anyone I was here.

Right. He says, don't tell anyone you were here. All right. we do the whatever the commute is from mid city back to rushville and we're back where we started in episode one with kerry and john at the scene of the crime only we have a lot more intel now what do you now make of john checking the finger for the ring knowing that we know that john knows that hal doesn't have a ring yes his ring has been decommissioned so what does checking the the finger there do i honestly wasn't sure do you think it's just like a a fake out for episode one

maybe it's the fake out maybe it's like the just in case like let me just see did he get it back somehow and that's, that's how he got here. Absolutely. Okay. Because, yeah, the knuckles are referenced elsewhere as like the, he wasn't, he didn't, Hal didn't punch anybody so they can't quite loop everything back to John yet. But this seemed like 100% just a ring check. Yeah, absolutely.

What else you want to say about this sort of crime scene investigation moment? I mean, I love the revisit, for one, with all the context. I just think it's so, it's always so fun reading into every micro expression. And I think just the, especially for John, the mystique in this scene, not just being what happened here, but like how culpable am I going to be in this? Like how accurately can we date this broken nose like to the minute of what happened?

And getting to read that performance within this scene, just it really sung on the second viewing. How much like how much of John's motivation here do you think is his genuine feelings for Hal and genuinely like wanting to know what was happening or what his brother said earlier, which is like, you know, you never left Rushville.

Essentially, you have to get some closure on what happened there. And then how much is it, I have to cover my own ask because I could be blamed for this. I think that's a significant part of it. And they serve the same in goal, right?

It's like if you can find who actually did it, then it's not you. Yeah. And so I think to whatever extent he can contribute to the solving of this with no help from guy, as he has made abundantly clear, then all the better for it.

And I like the idea that like we could revisit this scene one more time if it turns out that Carrie is the one who did it and just sort of like revel in all of the hidden agendas of all the characters inside of these scenes. You know what I mean? Like Carrie's motivated

to pin it on someone else or create some plausible deniability or something like that. Or just move the light away from her. Yeah. And then he's motivated by the fact that he was there and could be blamed because perhaps some shrapnel of his DNA

is on house face. It was a solid punch, you know? Well, so you think, I imagine that we do see a version of what actually happened. It's not just hearsay. It's not just we find out. But like, do you think we're going to see it? I think we're going to see the snowy bleachers. Can't wait.

Yeah. It's okay, Buttercup. I hope I'm mad. If that line is uttered on this show, I'm just going to be so delighted by that. If he says it's okay, Buttercup, I will feel the same way we felt when there was a furry on the pit. That's how I'll feel about that. Just a sign of a lot. a life well lived. All this

podcast, all this abusive podcasting will have been worth it. It mattered. I hope it mattered. Okay. I'm calling this Chekhov's Bachelor Pad. Because we walk into the house, right? We've got the shotgun rigged up at the door. And John keeps re-rigging it up at the door. So there's like no way that shotgun doesn't go off at some point.

We're going to home alone at some point. Okay. Because Earl is there. And like obviously Earl is going to be eating someone before this season is over. Has to eat someone. Do you think he's going to eat no one? and then just spit out the crystal heart. Oh my God. That would be phenomenal.

Just chomps the whole thing down and spits out the heart. Here's the thing. Like, Earl wouldn't even need to be involved in like an overt attack or people breaking in any way. I don't know who's, I mean, look, this has to be House decision.

He is way too close to that bed. Oh. Like, if you're just a guest sleep, or maybe that's House bed, I don't even know. I don't know who all is like live, laugh, loving in here. But clearly anyone in that bed

is in the plant zone in a way that I would never want to be. We need to move Earl away from the bed. I know he needs the light, but come on. I mean, and we know, so like, again, in honor of Mallory, we must address the line. I mean, it's not exactly the risk, but I made him change the sheets. Yes. The bar is in hell. They're tangling in the sheets. Carrie and Hal are taking on the sheets. It's like having your pet watch you when you're tangling in the sheets with your loved one. Like, you don't want your sentient plant right there. Not just watch you, but like on a perch. Like he's above looking down. I just don't

think that's a good situation for anybody, especially when your plant can literally eat you alive. Can I pitch you and I, uh, uh, sort of a branding for date nights with Hal and Carrie? Yeah. Huskers and Chill? I mean, I'm pretty sure that's already a thing. Scurs and chill. See, Scurs and Chill does not have the same ring to it, unfortunately. You need the Netflix and Chill, Huskers and chill.

Look, football games are very long. There's a lot of downtime. You know, there's, there's a lot of opportunity there for everybody. I don't think there's like great central heating inside. of that bachelor pad. So you know, got to warm up somehow. So you call it a bachelor pad, but it's like a, it's a spinster pad, it seems like. Oh, because there's like homilies on the wall?

I'm just saying, he didn't decorate the place. Somebody else owns it. He has more, oh, you think he's Airbnbing that from like an old lady? I mean, they said he was renting it out. Okay. So you don't think any of that decor is his. Oh, absolutely not. Okay.

He doesn't own decor. That's part of the thing. But that's what I thought it was part of him like changing for Carrie is then he like went to home goods. Oh my God. I didn't even consider that. Yeah, and he's like feathering his nest for her. But her house rules. Her house is a really nice house.

She knows what she's doing. She's like, if I were her, I mean, I understand the reason she goes over there and splits a pizza is so that Noah cannot find out that she's like, otherwise all day night should be at Carrie's house, which is a very nice house. This is one of those couples where it becomes abundantly clear that you need to go there and not here. Yeah, exactly. No, I like the idea that he like bought some stuff for her. Some throw pillows. But only from the first home goods he went to. It's like I'm going to go to one place and whatever they have is now my style sensibility.

And perhaps some yard sales, you know? But you think that's like a little old lady's house that he like. It feels pretty dusty in there. It does. I won't let you. All right. So Earl definitely eating someone. Got to.

I think we are home alone. I think showdown at the bachelor, Pat, or spinster joint if you prefer. And the shotgun's going off. And Earl is definitely eating someone. Is there a third in that? Is there a tick-tack toe? for the traps. I can't remember any other things set up really. If like one of the

sort of inspirational poem plaques that was on the wall, the home good poem plaque falls off the wall. What if there's like a nine mill planted behind one of those? Or it's like it conceals the door to the gun safe, you know? That's your Cape Fear logic thinking. Honestly is. When they mentioned

that the gun is still at large, I did have some Cape Fear energy. But yeah, the gun is missing. It's missing. where could it be? But yeah, no, I think at least those two things happen. But you're right. We do enjoy a rule of three.

So maybe a lampshade will be involved, perhaps. Here's what our listener Ken said. This may sound strange, but I'm thinking about the presence of meat in lanterns. We have Earl who has to be fed meat from the fridge. We have John, who for some reason is no longer vegan. And we have the slaughterhouse. All this has me wondering if meat has something to do with a plot point or if it's meant to be something thematically. Maybe I'm overthinking it.

would love to hear your thoughts. I mean, this is what you're positing. Meets back on the menu. John is now a full blood, red blooded American, so he could take up the lantern mantle. But like, any other thoughts on the presence of meat in the show? I mean, clearly before he was an imposter, you know? Not to say anything about the vegan community,

but I think if you're channeled into the like... We're a pro-vegan podcast. Incredibly. Okay. But I think the guy he was puffing himself up and raised to be... The guy who doesn't drink. Who doesn't? It was like so clean cut.

Yeah. so manufactured, so like optimized. It's like if you were going to design the human diet from scratch, it would be vegan. Right. Like that would make a ton of sense. Yeah. And now he's like letting his hair down a little bit. I mean, to the extent that he has it to let down.

That's what the goatee is. Oh, absolutely. Growing that thing out. Love that. Can we go back to this food storage question that I don't think I got as much of a rise out of malaria as I would out of view about this. When we first see the meat storage situation for Earl, in Hal's house and it's just so much raw meat just in the fridge.

Did you have any questions about that? Oh, the sustainability of that meat? That's so much raw meat thawed at once. I will say, I think different species have different tolerances for like a cell by date suggestion, right? Oh, you think he's serving Earl rotten meat? By human standards, perhaps. I'm just not going to presume what a carnivorous plant can and can eat. I just live a life and maybe I was raised by like a.

fearful family or something like that, but like the meat is mostly in the freezer until like just before you need it, you know? Wait, wait. You buy the meat. Yeah. And it goes straight into the freezer? Unless you're going to cook it like that night or the next day. Yes.

Joe, you can't be living that way. Yes. No. That's safe. It's safe, Rob. Look, freeze. If you don't have plans to cook the meat this week, perhaps, yeah. How many days do you put the raw meat in the fridge?

It depends on the meat. It depends on the timing. It depends on what it says when you buy it. But all of those dates that are on the packaging are like a weird combination of food science plus politics plus economics. I do know that. Okay. Thank you so much. Just laying it out.

I'm just asking you how long, if you buy some chicken thighs and you're like, oh, I thought I was going to make them tonight, but I'm not going to make them. Yeah. How many days are they sitting in the fridge? Several is fine. If it's not processed meat, if it's ground meat, I think it's different rules apply. Okay. But a whole chicken thigh, I'm fine with that. Like several days.

Yeah. Okay. It's fine. It's fresh. It's completely edible. That's not how I live my life. But all of your meat is inferior because it's been frozen. No, because it's well-seasoned and well-cooked.

Yeah, but the texture. I'm not worried about the season. Well, maybe I don't know what to think anymore. I'm concerned. I'm concerned about how long you're letting meat just hang out in your fridge. Absolutely not. Several days is 100% fine. It's tough.

What do you make of the use of Maggie inside of this episode? So we meet Maggie. Well, we met her last week. She was a little girl with the Tweety Bird Watch. Yes. And then we see her when John first goes to see Hal. She's smoking outside. And then she's covering for John here so that she can extort him later.

Very Ozarky, honestly, the spotlight with love and respect to Chris Mundy. But what do you make of her use here? I'm not quite sure. Okay. I will say of all the characters in their utilization in this episode that confounded me a little bit, I would say hers and billies are the two that I'm like, I don't quite see what you're going for here other than clearly. in their conversation, they're setting up the, like, the racial undertones, or in this case, overtones

of that exchange. And it's not an accident that he's like... Oh, you think reparations is an overtone? I mean, the fact that she's like, we're not racist, but I would like some reparations. Wild shit. Special. But like, what is this character supposed to represent? What is she supposed to be? Well, the fact that John doesn't remember her

is not a great look for our guy, John. She was nine. Yeah, yes. If you saw a nine-year-old and then didn't see them and then saw them at 19, You think you would connect to who that person is? On the one hand, sure. On the other hand, it sounds like there's about 10 people still left in Rushville. I mean, like, that's fair.

And on the other hand, she looks exactly like the woman that they cast for her mother. Yeah. Like, I don't know what they, if that's like the same. I didn't look. If it's like the same actress or they got her sister or something like that. But like the casting is insane between. And I feel like of all the people that he would remember, perhaps it would be the weeping child that he like hated a watch to. Maybe.

I mean, look, they have a moment clearly. in the economy of the characters of this kind of thing, clearly it has to be the same girl. Yeah. But he's shell-shocked from just having assassinated his, like, alien lover and also taking the ring that he's been waiting his whole life to get off of Hal Jordan's finger and is stumbling through the wreckage of a city. He is partially responsible for destroying.

I just don't know that his, like, recall is going to be 100% in this situation. You're just letting him off the hook a little bit. Maybe so. Okay. So you think she's justified in asking? for reparations is what you're saying. I didn't say that. Okay.

Just want to make it very clear for the record. I didn't say that. I'm like, in terms of like what she could represent, the fact that she's like a face of this, a non-man hunter, manhunter, manhunter adjacent face, just like an average person, unless she's also a manhunter, but like just a, the face of a damaged Rushville. Right. The, you know, the damage that was done. I think they needed that in some respect or another.

But I also think even just some of the details that we learned, like the fact that no one rebuilt the motel. Right? Like that stuff I found to be really effective. I agree. That everyone who is still here is living in a ruin and that Howl is among the people who moves back to live in that ruin. I found to be really evocative even if we didn't have Mattel. And that goes back to the sort of like Noah's Manhunter case because I'm just sort of like, why wouldn't everyone just leave? Why would you stay?

Yes. And I feel like the only reason to stay is to just circle the wagons around this like one being that they've opened. to raise and protect, you know? It's a great point. And now that you mention it, the idea that Noah is like a highly touted college prospect, impossible. There's no offensive line in this city. Like the other kids he's supposedly playing with, much less against.

What is the caliber of competition here? Mallory has been saying this from the beginning. It doesn't make any sense. I mean, like, that line is in the first episode. Yeah. It's just sort of like what Noah's prospects are. And so it's just like, from the beginning, there's a like, there's something not quite right here.

one's cooking the books. Yes. No one is watching these games. The tape is not out there. Something is rotten in the heart of Rushville and it's not the meat rotting in the fridge. All right. Autopsy Table for One. It's the famous Bitsy who knows who Zoe referenced in episode five.

Right. She said call Bitsy. Tell her we need a table for one. So this is what we find out is that Bitsy's the M.E. On the Maggie front and the Bitsy front, we get two sort of clock clocks that they put on things, right? Like Maggie threatens John. and puts a clock on it. And Bitsy's like,

I can hide the fact that someone died here until Monday. So there's a clock on that as well. Which I would say is partially the reason why no one is showing up to the funeral too. Like some of it might be outreach. Terry told Carol and that's it. It's just, and like Bitsy's like Wikipediaing to like figure out next of kin. It's like how Jordan,

regardless of how disgrace he may be, I imagine by the fact that he was a superhero would be an incredibly public figure who some people would show up for a funeral. It wouldn't just be them alone. The looky-loose sort of thing. Yeah, that's a great point. That's like if they're hiding the fact that he's dead and then like literally it's just Carol who shows up. Interesting. Yeah, because I mean the whole if we go back to the 2016 timeline and they were talking about like what happens if a lantern dies here. This is the whole why Carrie calls John here kind of question that I have, which is just sort of like if a lantern dies here, even a disgraced former lantern, but if a lantern

dies here, then like, the troops will descend. But like Guy Gardner knows. Guy knows that how's dead. Would he not have told the guardians? Like, who all knows that Hal is dead, you know? Especially when Guy is like such a Boy Scout. I mean, at least in a brown-nosing kind of way. Who are we hiding this information from the FBI?

Like, she mentioned the FBI. Like, who are we hiding it from if, like, Guy knows and Carol knows? Well, I think we're, I think in this case, they're hiding it. At least, so the purported reason is we don't want to get in the way of the hat ceremony, right? Like, we don't want to blow up Noah's big moment. Once again, I think everyone's priorities are really warped. Well, look, if Kyle Chandler's on a show where people are feeling away about high school football, like I think we're in the zone. But is that the actual reason, which to be, I would actually understand that, whether you're a parent or a surrogate parent.

Like, I can understand that logic. I'm just not sure that's exactly what's happening here. But like, then you put him in the, in the freezer. And you don't have the funeral until after the hat ceremony, right? You do the hat ceremony and then you say, hey guys, how Jordan died. I think they just don't want people coming to town. You have a very liberal relationship with the freezer. You're just putting way too many things in there for way too long.

Dead bodies? That guy's got to go on the ground. Like, this is his time. Dead bodies can go in the freezer. You're just, I don't know. Your preservation of various meats is concerning to me. Speaking of preservation, storage, let's talk about the fortress of storage. Again, on the sort of like winking reference, how did you feel about fortress of storage?

This is cute in a good way. I liked it. Bird on the keychain. What do you think that means? I don't know. A couple options. Okay. One, it's like how kind of left this for John?

Makes sense. Okay. Two, the birds are actually connected to the guardians in some way. I think it was double fake? Oh, from Bernadette. Yeah. I don't know. why do birds keep showing up randomly?

Motif. Okay. Just for a little salute. Just like. Just lamb shitting the lampshays. Just doing a thing. Okay. I like the idea that it's for John.

Yeah. Okay. I mean, look, it's one of the things they have legitimately bonded over in terms of like, how are you able to do this? Like a moment they had that only, maybe only they and Anton's exploded corpse, assuming that is actually what happened, would remember. So what's in the box? Just the lantern?

because we've got the suit in the ring now. Yeah. The ring has 5% left. That's not going to last this very long. No. So a lantern to juice up the ring. The lantern itself makes sense. We've seen it in there.

The box is, this is a bigger box than the box he had back in his home. So what else could be in there? Well, but even the one at his home was big on the inside. Yeah. It's all tardity, but why is this one bigger on the outside? Honestly, I hadn't even considered that it was. Like if you have an infinite void inside, what's the difference at that point? That's a great question.

I guess you need the clearance in the box to take out whatever is in there, right? Like if you have a car in the small box, you're not getting it out of the front of the safe. So what's the difference? Yeah. Well, it's not car size. But do you want to know my favorite theory that I've seen floated around? Please. That for some reason, Abinzer's spaceship would be in there.

That's not coming out. It's not clearing. I know. So I don't know. I don't know what the bigger boxes for and what's in there besides the lantern. Yeah. I mean, the lantern clearly. has to be in there. We haven't seen it. We don't know where it is.

The ring is at 5% because none of these lanterns charge their shit under any re... Like, they need to charge. Do you think there's a spell inside of the box that preserves raw meat and he can just keep endless storage of raw meat in there? If there was, he would have. Okay. I will say this. I personally, I don't know who you felt about this, Joe.

I was very reassured that the space vaults safe could not be opened with a voice recording because we've just recorded too many pods. Like we would be so cooked. All of our deepest darkest secrets would be out there. Rob, we're already. I mean, we are. But can you imagine if it could also open our safe, you know? Remember how upset you were to learn that my fingerprints unlocked is something?

I just have a lot of concerns about the way you live your life. But like I won't do facial recognition anything. Face unlock, I think is like scary and weird. What do you think you're accomplishing with doing one but not the other? Do you do neither? As much as I possibly can. Okay. Yeah.

All right. Meanwhile, you're just like, yeah, 23 and me, take my DNA. It's a work thing. All right. I just know who's given DNA samples to the Manhunters and it's you. You're like, yeah, sure, take it. I don't care what you do with it. Do you make a little mini Manhunter out of my genetic code?

Cool. How much, like, how much tissue do you need to make a Manhunter? Clearly not much. Could you not just gather like a couple strands of hair? Like, is it sort of like gladys and weapons level of like organic matter that you need to wrap around a twig. You need like three good wraps around that twig. Okay. All right. Because she didn't clarify Zoe didn't clarify what she took exactly. She was like, I took a sample. Well, there was a, there was like a scar. Oh, yeah, he had a mark. Okay. In that case, so we have a sense

of scale at least. Yeah, it's like a punch of flesh essentially. Maybe it has to be flesh. Yeah. Maybe hair is not enough. Maybe it has to be flesh. What about a tooth? We have questions. Toneil clippings. Are they eligible? If you're a manhunter, get at us. Hopitin dragons at gmail.com. I was watching a witch-based story, which will shock and surprise you. And someone mentioned, like, losing a tooth. And I'm like, you lose a tooth. The witch has that tooth, man. Got it.

The witch has that tooth. You didn't lose it. You know where it is. Yeah. The witch has it. Anything else we want to say about the buttercup voice note that we haven't already mentioned? It was very sweet. I really did enjoy it quite a bit.

Kyle Chandler's charisma just through voice note alone is insane. That's incredibly potent. It's really tough. Again, like, Bernadette was powerless. You know, she's just another one of us. Noah gets mentioned again, right? If you want to come over and watch the scars, I know Noah has practice. Again, like, I mean, like, yes, Carrie's life should be oriented in many ways around her child that she's rearing.

Like, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not an alien. I understand that parents care about their children. But I think the show is just very carefully like, Noah, Noah, Noah, Noah, Noah, comes up again with Billy. He's here. He's here. He's here with the suit. Yeah. He comes up again with Billy when, when, uh, he comes up again with Billy when, uh,

John is trying to talk Billy down from the fight and he's like, think about your son. And he's like, you keep my son, he said, things about no one. He's like, you get my son's name out of your mouth.

It's like a trigger almost for, for these people. So I don't know. Do you think there's any way in which Billy did the shooting? Would Billy shoot Hal and would Hal, under what circumstances would Hal accept it? That's where I, because Hal wouldn't be like it's okay,

butter cut to Billy. I mean, that would be a turn of events. What if the voice memo was meant for, like, There's many things that could happen. I think we're really, we're really unfurling this.

Well, I will say the thing about the voice memo that it accomplishes among just like sending us thrills and chills to hear Kyle Chandler contemplate calling a woman buttercup. Yeah. Is it corroborates Carrie's story, right? Yes. That like, this is a real thing.

This is a real thing. They did have a relationship. It's not just a story she's making. And also like, you know, he says she blows him off, ghost him, he's waiting by the phone. She really makes him work from it. So that's you. So this whole story of like, he courted me.

Yeah. took a while, blah, blah, blah, like, this is corroboration of that, which is nice to hear because, like, I don't trust any of these motherfuckers. And I know sure they tell me, I don't believe it. So, you know, at what point do you think John devises the whole plan to get the hologram? Because, like, when he, they can't get into the bigger Tardis box with the voice note alone. Yeah. After that is when he's like, we should have a funeral. Yes. So is it in that moment or is it mere moments later when he's in the store,

getting the beer and he sees the Guy Gardner cut out. Because I feel like seeing the Guy Gardner beverage display is what inspires him to turn on the lantern signal. Or supplements. Was it a supplement or an energy drink? I thought it was a drink. Either way, the product's not moving. No, heavily discounted. Well, bad optics.

That's what he said. The brand has been damaged by what happened in Rushville. This is what happens when you're the branding lantern. Like, it's just not where you want to be. But like, do you think it was John's, like, is the funeral, is the idea for the funeral actually motivated by like he's not a goldfish, I actually cared about him. Or is it this like longer, long con of like, if we have a funeral, then we can plausibly do this. And then we can, you know, get the hologram and then we can open the box. I think the funeral is legitimately designed to get

the ring. Yes. And he doesn't quite know how to do it at first. And then pieces. So it's like a two-part revelation, right? Like clearly the bet, like I need to drag this on and create more avenues to get the ring. How am I going to do that? Oh, wait. Guy Gardner seems like just the. Just the. kind of Rube who might pull this off. And I think in a way that is so... I really want you to call Guy Garner a Rube to his face. I think it would go well for all of us.

Yeah. The plan, as far as how he manipulates guy, is very Hald Jordanie. Yes. He provokes him. He absolutely provoking. And he understands him in the same way that Bernadette pulled his strings, that we've seen various characters manipulate others, where it's like, Guy Garner's whole thing, as we understand it, both here and in the Superman movie is like,

this is not a guy who feels, if you'll pardon it, particularly worthy of this whole thing. Like he's the third choice lantern. Right? Like he was not chosen by the ring. He was not raised to be a lantern. He's like, well, I guess we're just going to go

to this dude instead. Is it the guardians picked him or the ring picked it? I thought the ring picked him. Do we ever get confirmation of that backstory in this canon? I don't know. But either way, we're going so far down the line that it's like, even as John sets up, have this because I let you have it.

I mean, yes, but he's provoking him. He's goading him to your... But he's goading an insecurity that exists because it's true. Yeah, but also, like, you could be third string lantern and that you're still above so many humans on Earth. I mean, that's true, but there's like a billion, there's so many lanterns, you know? In the galaxy. Yeah, there's like

Warthog alien lanterns, you know? It's like, that guy got it over to you. That's my favorite lantern. That's what I'm saying. Wharthog lantern? It's the best. Before we go to that guy Garner scene And we did the Billy fight in the street scene Let's just like linger longer on this meatloaf dinner No one wants to be president

I'm sure this is fine We return to the topic of fear Like can it be avoided? Can it be managed right? This is what he says when he's justifying The fact that he's in the panic room business People want peace and they want safety okay I bring safety to people's homes

99% of my clients will never need to go inside but it's just knowing that it's there. That's the opposite of panic, right? So like this idea, this constant push and pull that we've been talking about all season of like, what does it mean to be fearless? Is it actually being fearless or is it being afraid and doing the thing anyway? You know, all the sort of stuff like that. But I love the idea of like John Stewart, he's an architect.

Let's put him in the panic room business. It's really good. It's very good. Yeah. The part of it though, that look, were I Guy Gardner, where I optics focused. Dude who is kind of a green lantern goes to middle America

accidentally laser nukes an entire city and then wants to sell you a panic room. I don't think the optics are great. I'm going to be honest. I don't see how this business got off the ground. Well, but John is not being blamed for the... That's why Hal took the fall. But even by association, like just being there,

I would think, like, how is that not the first question in every pitch meeting? It's like, so what happened in Rush... And like, I get how you could spin that shark tank. tank style into like, well, I was there. The devastation I saw proved that I understand we need this. I just don't buy. I don't know that anyone would buy that.

Oh, you're not buying. I'm certainly not by it. I'm skeptical. I will not be investing at this time. I'm going to leave it to Cuban and everybody else. All right. One of the thing I want to say about this dinner sequence is like at the end of it when when Carrie is sending Noah

away and he's like, I'm not an idiot. I'm not a goddamn idiot. Okay. I know you were together. All of that sort of stuff. John starts explaining himself. to Noah and Carrie's like, don't talk to him, talk to me. But I kind of took that as like, I don't know if this is true, but like, again, Noah's like magnetism that like John is just like addressing his justifications to Noah rather than talking to Carrie about like what happened with Billy. It's just this like irresistible pull to like orient yourself around Noah.

I think that's like possibly very fast. Well, it's, I mean, that's that occasion in particular is so notable. Like he just has no other reason to be addressing those concerns to Noah. Who he has no relationship because he's not a real character on the show. All right. We've been talking about Guy. Anything else you want to say? Okay.

Well, yeah, this is big news. By the way, Sinestro escapes. BTW. Spascaband. Yeah. A lot of Potter references in this show. Does this feel like just Warner Brothers IP that we're just getting the pump and, you know, prime the pumps for the Potter show or like, what are we doing here?

That feels especially shameless. The fact that it is joint IP. I actually. Maybe this is us being a little too in the weeds on this stuff. But when we cover a show and they reference, like an Apple show references something on Netflix or something like that. I have like a weird admiration for it. I'm like, this isn't so craven. It's an attempt at, yeah, like grasping zeit guys kind of centering us in a moment in time or a culture or whatever.

But you're acknowledging that other networks or streamers exist. We are not just a little bubble where this is the only thing that happens. So like this does feel like kind of pumping up sister IP, so to speak. but it's like, it's weird. This is too much. This is too much. The third Potter reference inside this season. The first one I was admittedly charmed by.

Right? Like as the litmus test. Yeah. As the German three of are you a human being? I think absolutely work. And certainly Guy Gardner is not out here canceling J.K. Rolling. This guy doesn't give a shit.

He's like, he's like what? Harry Potter's great. I don't give a shit. I don't know. He did get involved in D.C. Gaza in the Superman movie. So, you know, like his politics might surprise you. That's true. You know, you're right. Thanks for speaking up. Sinestro's

escaped. Yeah. A while ago. Who busted Sinestro out of the joint? Okay. Yeah. He says, how's off the hook because he was in prison? Yep. So, who did it? Who did it? Who does it? Who else do we know that has access to Spascaband? Yeah. No one? The Guardians. Yeah. But why would they break out Sinestro?

Could, okay. So should we put I don't think there's any way in which Sinester could have done it. But could we put Sinester on the suspect list for killing Hal? I don't think he did it. Killing him with a 9mm feels crude. Right. He would taunt him to death. I would think. But like

is there a world in which Leanna, the lovely Laurelini, breaks Sinester out of prison to get him to kill Hal for her or something like that? I think the fact that she would break him out of prison seems like the only option we have narratively available to us because we don't know anyone else who has access to spas caban um do we want to keep calling it spascaband not particularly plus i would say what space caban

seems more i know space caban is way better than spas but like we want to say the goofier thing okay um it can noa in his manhunter capacity yeah fly himself to space i don't know the answer Have we seen Actually have we seen This may be a dumb question Please forgive me Have we seen the Manhunter's fly? No

Obviously not in the show Not in lanterns Yeah I mean especially Zoe was like About to get on a chopper or something Like I mean I don't know what she did To get herself out of that truck

Before it exploded It's true If she just let herself burn up And then like popped herself In the sarcophagus She at least could move very fast Yeah Yeah

I don't think they're going to space As caban though Okay So who done it? Yeah, it's Laura Linney. It's got to be Laura Linney. But which version of Laura Linney? You know, is it this one?

Is it Truman Show? Is it can count on me? Like, it could be any, it could be any Laura Linney. I'm open. What if, honestly, what if all of the Guardians are Laura Linney's? It's a C word. It's a C word. Yeah.

I don't know who could be other than the Guardians of some kind. And I don't know why they would want Sinners or out. Unless he just, like, got it, you know, like, sweet talked himself out. And it wasn't like anyone busted him out. But, like, he just got himself out. He's been in there for a while. and sweet talking a lot. And he's, you know, you get some wiggle room,

you get some privileges, you have access. Clearly he has his ear to the ground in a way that your average prisoner doesn't. But I still think even for the role she's played in this season, Laura Linney is too big a get for what she's done so far. And it's like, I think she's,

it's some of my favorite casting on the show. Maybe, but I also see her being here as like kind of a favorite of Chris Monday who did Ozark with her. It's just sort of like, will you come and be like a cool alien person who's here for just a couple episodes? I kind of see it as the opposite of like,

that kind of casting spoiler where you're just like, surely Laura Linney will do more. We'll do something. Like we were talking about with like Hope Davis and Furious or something like that. You know what I mean? I think this is more like, here's a cool actress who's doing a favor

to someone who she's worked with before, do you know? But it's not even the fact that she's a cool actress. It's like tapping into the opakness of Laura Linney is so easy and tempting that it's like if you have her, why wouldn't you have her release Sinestro? Opaqueness is such a good description of what she can do. I guess it's opacity technically. I apologize.

To all the how. of our listeners. I apologize. It is opacity. I have to entertain this, even though there's no way in which I believe this to be the case. A prevailing theory about who killed Hal. Maybe prevailing is too strong. A theory has been that it's John's dad. And I think it's just because we've seen him fire a gun, question Mark at one point? When he does have a gun at care comfort cove? So this is a thing.

He breaks out, shot out his window with a handgun. Yeah. Is it a 9-mill? You know what I mean? Like I think we just need to mention that John Sr. has a gun. Yes. Has been behaving erratically for long enough that they've put him in some sort of care

facility. Has some kind of grudge against Hal has had it like, you know, for decades. Yeah. Is there, I don't. think this would be interesting or narratively satisfying if it was if it were uh john senior but i just thought i would mention it worth noting i agree it would be quite odd oh on the maggie extorting john front our listener ken rodent to say i don't know if it's plot related but the amount that maggie wants in reparations is 314,536 dollars and 27 cents which is the hex code for a green color

minus the 27 cents okay that's fucking so number 314 536 and i looked it up and it is a very green, lanterny green, is the hex code for green. That is incredibly cute. I don't know if that's something they intended, but I really like that. How could it not be? Okay. All right, let's talk about the Noah John. Okay, because like if Noah's a manhunter

and if he did it or at least there's a confrontation coming, I don't see how he makes it out of the season alive, dimples and all. But this is what John says to him. It's the second time we've seen John give young Noah some advice, right? The only bar you need to clear is the one you set for yourself, nobody else's matters. And then Noah says, you believe that. And then he says, no,

of course not. I'm just trying to give you an easier ride than I had. And then Noah says, but now you're happy though, right? And John says, absolutely without a pregnant pause. Can't you tell how happy he is? Okay. The only bar, like, like, the only bar you need to clear is the one you set for yourself, nobody else's matters. Like, is that telling Manhunter Jr., you don't need to live up to your grandmother's expectations of what you don't need to be present, even though your grandmother might have groomed you to be? Is there a way in which John, who was groomed for greatness and Noah who was groomed for greatness, like game recognized game in some sense?

Can he talk him off the ledge in some way? If he did not, if it was Kerry who killed Hal and Noah is just like a manhunter with a heart of gold and crystal, like, is there a way in which he can sort of be redeemed? Like, what do you think? Can a manhunter be redeemed? I mean, all we know about the manhunters is that they manipulate. and kill to survive and seduce people. And they fuck real good.

Apparently. Yeah. I mean, like, again, ask John Stewart. Like, he was, he was ready to go back in one more time unto the breach and just be like, you know, we got to be sure. Like, we got to confirm. Oh, is that way? I do anything too desperate here.

So, like, I don't know that Manhunter with the heart of gold is something that show is necessarily set up. Is this possible? Of course. Maybe this is the exception to the rule. Maybe they have finally perfected the formula. Maybe whatever is happening, like, has reached its apex. in a more perfect form.

I'm just trying to understand why this sort of John Noah connection, which they've now hit twice. Yes. Like, to what end? If Noah's the villain, you know, will it then be hard for John to kill him or something like that? And that's why Earl has to eat him or like,

what, you know, where are we going with this? Well, I think it's unwitting hero and villain, right? It's like John was born into this stuff, right? Like, it was chosen for him that he was supposed to be a lantern. And if the same is true for Noah where he was like literally manufactured out of somebody's DNA, then it's like he had no part to play all the talk that you raised earlier about like being compelled by your nature. It's like there is a sort of like elemental way in which these two people have to be across purposes, right? Right. So it's like I don't want to do like similar to like,

the resistance. Carrie not wanting to shoot Hal if she had a shoe him. I don't think Noah would have wanted to shoot Hal. Like I do think Noah is like a good kid. Couldn't say. Don't know him. Until you threaten him. Yeah. The whole town loves him. Everyone in this town is to be believed.

I'm like drive by. I'm just sort of like, hey, no. Where are you going? All right. Self-ulogizing. Guy mentions the Phantom Zone. We love to hear it. We get the,

we're about to get the payoff from the extra 5% on the ring. But I love that he's like, the ring's dead. You can't use it. And he's like, I wouldn't put it on. What kind of sick fuck do you think I am? And I love guys line here.

The kind of sick fuck who's at hiding he's a sick fuck incredibly good uh we mentioned the carol ferris uh appearance and then do we need to talk about that more i mean like admittedly i'm not super familiar with carol ferris but this feels pretty significant no i mean significant in what sense like the the way the creators talk about they talk about almost as an easter egg and i think i think that bears like given how they cast it they didn't like cast it with like again a laura lini like an actor that we expect to see again. So it's just sort of like Carol,

let's mention that that before Carrie, Cal did have a relationship. Canonically, Carol Ferris is his love interest in the comics, so let's put this Easter egg in. Yes. Oh, no, I don't think she's going to show up in a justice society movie of some kind. She busted Tenester out of jail.

Honestly, I mean, look, one of the only characters who might be able to do it theoretically. But, you know, like, I guess it's in that weird ground of like once you're referring to these characters, by their full name for Easter egg's sake. I'm like, I guess other than the acknowledgement, is there any reason for it?

But I guess if Howl's going to die, she probably would be at the funeral. It reminded me a lot, actually, of in the Doctor Who episode with David Tennant when Sarah Jane shows up, and he's like, my Sarah Jane. My Carol Farren. As people with great affection and history often do. Just refer to each other by full names as often as possible.

My Sarah Jane. All right. The eulogy. Before we get to the, I hope I mattered, what is grief full of persevering? Honestly, it broke me apart. There's this section as well. My ring has no doubt selected a brave son of a bitch ready to continue my fight into that man or woman. But probably a man, not that there would ever be a never be a female. Lantern, I'm just playing the odds here. Okay. So great. hilarious. But my ring is no doubt selected a brave son of a bitch ready to continue my fight. I'm wondering if like if I'm John reading this. Yeah. And I'm thinking about the fact that I like turned down the ring and then it's guy fucking Gardner has has a ring now. Yeah.

A different ring. But has a ring now. Like do I feel some sort of pull to give how the successor that he deserves? Like in terms of. Does he deserve it? That he wanted, clearly. But also not wanted so much that he would be succeeded in real time. That was the fear talking.

Nothing else must be replaced in the moment. I'm excited to see what the relationship between. John and the Hallogram is because the Hallogram was much friendlier and much like more excited to train John and stuff like that. And so like there is that part of Hal that still exists in Hallogram but also sort of like inside him like, you know, when Hal in the previous episode in 2016 was like kind of trying to build bridges a bit with John until John was like protecting Zoe and he was like, I was giving you a chance to be honest with me and then you weren't. So you know, there there is. a part that remains in hell that is not corroded by fear. Yes. That wanted to mentor John and have a connection with John. Absolutely. You know?

It was just so suppressed and stifled by everything else. And it's like, that's why this funeral scene overall and really just the idea of a sad, lonely green lantern, I was just like pulled in by it so much. I think because like Superman's isolation is very different. Like he's an alien landed here, planet explode, whole deal. You may have heard of it. Batman is like making a constant like a conscious choice. So I have heard.

Like Batman is self-imposed. Like he's choosing to live that lifestyle. How like had this ring fallen to his lap, spent his life in a hollowed out house with no friends to speak of. Yeah. And basically like gave up, chose the ring over every other part of being human. It felt like over time.

And so like having a character that would follow this power to those ends to the point where he wrote his own. eulogy at a funeral that no one really attended. Yeah. Because they couldn't even, they didn't even know who to contact is like such a, such a rewarding premise for that version of this character. And really like, for all of the complaints about like, oh, is this a show that's scared of its lanternness or that's scared of the fundamental nature of this character?

Like, this kind of read on what it means to be a lantern. Yeah. It's so captivating. Yeah. That I'm okay with people not being in suits. Yeah. If this is the payoff, if it's one thing if it's like ground. for the sake of grounded and it goes nowhere

or just turns into a different kind of show that doesn't have any resemblance to it. This is a core examination of what it means to be not just a superhero but specifically a lantern. And that's something that I think is a reason for this show's existence as much as anything else. Yeah, I really agree. And I think

to think about how going from you know, Earth's first superhero on the news, you know, and, And yeah, what does it mean to be chosen? And can you be chosen and have a life?

And I think Carol being here is not just a my Sarah Jane moment, but also just like a, he had an opportunity to have a relationship with someone. Carrie was not the first person for whom he had an opportunity. And he just like couldn't get past the ring. And the old, like, I mean, if Carrie shot him, this is devastating. But like, the only point in his life when he could finally really connect with someone was when he didn't have access to the ring anymore. This ring is buried.

This ring is like seductive siren called on the official pod. Justin Brit Gibson, the co-writer of this episode was talking about the ring is almost this like toxic ex-girlfriend. Like when he was talking about sort of Marcus not wanting John to go back to Rushville. And John goes back to Rushville because the siren song of the ring that he can't like let go of is part of it. So yeah, it's very the one ring. It's very what it does to Bilbo. What will it do to Frodo and in turn?

I mean, not even that. Maybe more Frodo, maybe more Frodo than Bilbo because it's not just the innate power of the thing, but you've been told throughout your entire life of what's going to happen to you when you put it on and how validating it'll feel. And the fact that John gave it up after like a couple minutes. Yeah. There has to be a part of him that's like, but what did that? But was that the right call? Was that worth it?

What would happen to me? Good or bad? if I did take on this mantle full time. Do you know what I wish? I loved that scene so much when you put it on the bar. I thought it was so good. But there's a part of me

that wish they had done that same special effect they do in fellowship when the ring hits the ground and it's so heavy. Just the feel of the weight of letting that go. Who is responsible for that sound design? It is phenomenal. It's either,

I'm not going to say who's responsible with the sound design. It was either a, I think they magnetized it to make it fall the way that it did. That's not answering. your sound design question. I mean, it absolutely does. Some like movie magic moment,

practical shit. All right, Marcus and John have the fight over the failed pitch. Like, I really like this, like, John, I could do it all and it's like, no, buddy, you can't rob a grave and make a pitch at the same time. To a colonel. I'm sure this will go well.

Ring charge 5%, and then we get the goddamn it, which I think is just like an all-timer great button for the episode. Our listener Steve wrote it to say, being able to see what John Stewart is able to do with 5% of the opportunity that was handed to how Jordan

is going to be delightful. I don't know how long it's going to be 5%. Again, if they can unlock that box and there's a lantern in there because I personally want the Hallogram to be around forever. That would be my preference. I mentioned, I think, in last week's episode

that we had sort of talked to to Damon Liddlewoff off pot about the Hallogram and whether or not it was a reference to quantum leap. Dean Stockwell's character on Quantum Leap is this sort of like hologram character. And I was like, Al, on Quantum Leap. And he was like, yes, he was like, but also it's ghost. And I didn't understand that until now because the hologram as this sort of like ghost,

here to solve the mystery of his own murder is really delicious and exciting. So, yeah. And he can't touch him. I think he's non-corporal. I think so. Yeah. I mean, that would be a lot for even the ring to do to summon a fully sentient corporeal being.

Right. So, yeah, very, very ghosty. Very exciting. I do love that idea. Yeah. Especially, like, if Carrie interacts with him at any point. Oh, my gosh. What a mind fuck.

Yeah. Absolutely sad. Especially because it's like it's how, but not her how. Right. You know? A hal who doesn't even know her. Doesn't know her. And also, as you alluded to, like, has a different.

balance to his personality in a way that like, I'm sure she resists some of the brash or parts of him, but it's like part of what charmed her in the first place. Does she want 20 years younger, nicer hal? Or did she like 20 years older curmudgeonly hal? Look, it's a tough competition. But I think with this stuff, what you're highlighting is like what is interesting narratively, but also like what's good for the future of these characters in this show and this property, right? It's like, we want as much of the halogram as we can get. But the show kind of has to grow beyond. him if it's going to continue. Well, I don't know if the show will continue.

Like, I don't know if there's lanterns, I mean, probably there's lantern season two, but like, you know, John is moving into like the movie space? Right. So like, but once he does, is he firing up Kyle Chandler every time he needs some advice? No, I hear what you're saying that like you want John Stewart as a character to stand on his own and it doesn't need. This is the training wheels, right? And it's like they're very charming training wheels.

And we're all having a great time. We're feeling very balanced together. I hear what you're saying. And I don't, like, I don't disagree with you. It's like when you talk about something like Game of Thrones and you're like it has to be legible to people who haven't read the book. Like there are there are like has to be. John Stewart has to be able to stand on his own without Hal Jordan.

But I just want as much Hal Jordan as I can get. You know what I mean? So like I'm not I'm not going to apologize to that. You're not asking you. Nor should you. But I think that's one of that's going to be one of the tensions coming out of this show too. It's like I'm having a great time with the buddy cop dynamic. With these like mentor, mentee kind of paired up, kind of

participating in at various points in the show. And all of that has been so fun. Yeah. Getting to know who John Stewart's going to be as a character who could go toe to toe with great individual villains, if it is Sinestra or otherwise, other great individual heroes and feel like a peer. Like that's going to take some growing from this point.

And like that to me is why this feels fun and energizing as a series in a way that a lot of the other superhero projects haven't. Like the ones that have introduced people have very rarely felt this rewarding and this promising as far. far as like who they could be. I know that they're like planning to do a lantern season two. I'm just like sort of unsure. And I think the DCU is in is in constant flux.

And so I like it feels like nothing's guaranteed. Yeah. But I do know that they're like planning and developing it. So they want there to be a season two, whether or not we get one I don't know. And whether or not it just means that Aaron Pierre is part of like a larger Justice League sort of in the in the films plans. I don't know. What if they just spin him up?

What if they revive the Pennyworth show, colon the story of Batman's Butler? You just Googled that so you could get the subtitle right. No, it's burned it to my brain, unfortunately. I was just trying to make sure that the show was actually canceled because it seemed like the kind of thing that may have been going on on, like, HBO now somehow. What channel wasn't on? I think it was on HBO Go. Was it not? I thought it was on like epic or like something very strange.

Whatever it was. I was going to say with all due respect to the people making it, but I really don't mean it. It was too good of a platform for whatever that show was. Yeah. Epics. Oh, it was Epic. Look at you. Your immediate recall of all MGM adjacent properties.

It's amazing. Tough to know. I looked it up. Opakness is a word that you can use. Merriam-Webster says so. Apology you were sending. All right. So that's it for Lanterns, episode six.

Anything else you want to say about that we haven't gotten to? Oh, I do want to say one very important thing. I decided in watching this episode, I will be inviting. And I would consider this episode a binding and formal invitation Kelly McDonald to my funeral. I just think what she does in that scene, she's not even reading the eulogy. And it's just like. Does she have to do the Nebraska accent? No, she doesn't have to say a word.

Oh, okay. I just need the pained knowing looks that may portend that she murdered me herself. I don't even care about the implications. I just think what she's delivering there is so powerful. This is a real like, kill me daddy energy, but kill me Kelly McDonald's energy for you. It's really not that. It's just like I love trying to understand what is going through that character's head in those sequences. And it is so rich and so layered and so incredible.

And she's been so awesome all season. I mean, that's why that casting has been so perfect. Because again, like if she is our prime suspect for murder, either her or her child. What if it's baby's first murder? What if it's him holding the gun and she has her arms around him to show him how it's done? And he's like, it's okay, Buttercup. you can teach your teen to murder me. I just really mean it's okay buttercup

and for Earl to eat someone. Those are the things I need. I will be leaping off my couch if it's okay buttercup comes to fruition. We deserve this. I think we've laid the groundwork. You and Mal, your scholarship of this show has been unmatched.

This is where it deserves to go. Anything else you want to say before we go? Only one final note, which is the closing track on this episode, Dan Hauerback. Also very good. It's relying on you for the. that. Very, very good.

I mean, are you, are you a Black Keys guy? I'm not particularly a Black Keys guy, but the Dan Arborbach solo stuff, I do quite like. What's like one step down from a guy? Casual. Black Keys casual. Yeah. Your Black Keys curious.

Yeah, Black Keys curious. Absolutely. Thank you to the entire team. Carlos Chirboga is on vacation, but we're going to think Carlos anyway. Scott Lee, Jacob Cornett is here. Jamie Eukch is working on this. Debraaldi is working on this.

Arjana Rom Capallo is here and Jomey and dinner on social. Thank you to Rob Mahoney for literally getting off a plane to record this podcast with me. Thank you for this important invitation. I do have, sorry, now that I think about it, we have one more important thing to say, which is the existence of the halogram, keeps alive the possibility that these two men, Nathan Philly and Kyle Chandler, might actually be on screen together. Two of my all-time TV favorites. Okay.

We need it. You need your Mal and, because you're a firefly guy, right? Of course. You're not a castle guy? I've seen more of it than I would care to admit because it's like funneled into the post-N-B-A game rerun cycle. So it's just like been on the TV. Yeah, exactly. Got it.

But we salute Captain Tight Pants around here. So we need it. And I really just need Hal Jordan commenting on whatever Guy Gardner's whole deal is. The golden tooth, the bull cut, the white leather. All right. We'll see you later this week for a House of Reeds book recommendation episode. once again send your recommendations hobbits and dragons at dune well.com. I've gotten a ton already.

You guys are very well read and amazing. And then we'll see you back for more lanterns after that. Thank you, Rob Mahoney. See you soon. Bye.