House of R - 'Lanterns' Episode 7 Deep Dive

Episode Date: September 29, 2026

Mal and Jo are back to dive deep into 'Lanterns' Episode 7. From the Halogram, to Noah Macon's ceremony and the reappearance of a significant character, your favorite Lanterns have you covered. (00:00) Intro (3:55) Opening snapshot (14:50) Deep dive (15:50) “Brother, it’s all that matters.” (58:28) “Don’t Think Twice, It’s All Right” (1:09:33) “I was in jail? I was in love?” (1:29:12) “Biggest thing to happen in this town.” (1:35:29) “You’re real.” (1:45:59) “I ever teach you about Einstein-Rosen bridges?” (1:52:21) What in the Half-Blood Prince…? (2:02:00) “I’m fearless 'cause I’m broken.” (2:09:04) Outwit, outplay, and outlast (2:16:11) Outro Hosts: Joanna Robinson and Mallory Rubin Producers: Jamie Yukich, Scott Lee and Aleya Zenieris Studio Production: Jacob Cornett Social: Jomi Adeniran Additional Production Support: Arjuna Ramgopowell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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You can get the good stuff for less, the stuff that lasts, because there's no point in tightening your belt if it's just going to break when you do. Get the good stuff in store at Marshalls today. Hello and welcome back to House of Art. I'm Joanna Robinson and joining me today. To defend the use of red apples as nightmare fuel, it's Mallory, Rubin. Oh, boy, that hot but possibly evil sheriff's going to be back after her brunch. We better get to it.

Do you think that's you, the hot yet evil sheriff of House of ours? Certainly not. Back from the brunch that was your vacation. Did I stretch that too thin? Yeah, what do you mean, summon? I'm not your genie. I could have also worked, you know, upon the return. Lantern stuff, go.

Let's do it. We're going to talk about lanterns. Have you heard of it? Episode seven, guess what? A phenomenal episode of television. We're going to get into that. a deep dive, if you will, right after this. All right, before we dive into those red apple infested waters, quick programming reminders,

the program's a little influx right now. We are doing the Lantern finale next week that we do know. For sure. Yeah. Vision Quest is coming up pretty soon. Only a couple weeks away. A couple weeks away. Two and a half weeks.

Sheesh. And then we have some thoughts about what we're going to do in between and you get to find out real time what those are. We're having a great time. How can folks figure out what all of those ambiguous clues mean, Mallory Rubin? Here's what I'd recommend follow along. Why not? Follow the pod on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast.

You can watch full video episodes of House of R and the Midnight Boys. Beep, pew. On Spotify, Incredible, and on the Ringervverse YouTube channel while you're at it. Follow our new-ish social handle at. Outhouse of R? Outhouse of R. Our bod is also thriving on Instagram right now. at House of our pod on Instagram, on TikTok,

of course, follow the ringerverse. And send us your emails. The inbox is open. We don't know yet exactly when we'll be recording the finale pods, but keep the Lantern's emails coming. Oh, please. They've been wonderful so far. And send us your Vision Quest emails, like Joe said.

That's just around the bend. Send us your Wicker emails. Please continue to send your book recommendations. That's right. We are going to do some sort of House of Reeds. Just got shifted slightly. One of us is going to do it, the one who's been preparing to do it. I will be.

Sorry, I'm so sorry. I will be doing House of Reeds. It is still happening. And I will not be absent because I don't like reading. I love to read. I'm not prepared for that podcast. We just did not give her any prep. We were supposed to happen when she was gone and it didn't.

Now it's going to happen when she's in town. I can't wait to listen. Spoiler warning for today. Yes. Everything is going fine. Lantern's episode 7. Everything up through. Yeah.

Did you watch this episode? You should have. It's great. Up through episode seven. No finale. we haven't seen it. I've not seen the finale. We don't know what's happened in the finale.

We have no clue. Maybe at some point today we'll mention the, you know, the teaser for the finale that they showed at the end of this episode. Sure. Rich taxed. Boy, there were some interesting glimpses in there. Some speculation time for sure. And anything in the comics.

Anything in the DCU. That's right. Anything in the MCU if we want to talk about Einstein, Rose, and Bridges or like anything like that. We can. Yeah. Stranger things. That's right.

Naturally. You know. And that's about the Great Gatsby, possibly. I have certainly some Harry Potter once again. I think both of those will come up as we look across and see a blinking light. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

It's a sail toward an island. As we center of a lake. You know, ceaselessly against the past. Sounds great. That's our spoiler warning for classic literature. Let's go now to our opening snapshot. Okay. We are here to talk about episode seven,

the Jordan boys legacy, obviously. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But Mallory, you're on a much-deserved vacation for episode six podcast. I was sick. We were going to pre-record. Anyway, long story short. Yeah.

You were not here. Thank you to Rob Mahoney for filling in. Shout out Mahoney. The best. A little legend. But the bad babies are devastated to not get your takes on a couple things. Number one.

Yeah. Earl Jordan finding out that Hal Jordan has died and his devastation. How was your devastation when you saw that? Crushing. Yeah. Genuinely, as I have said before on this very podcast, I mean, everybody knows how I feel

about the connection with a pet in general. I don't want to start sobbing at the beginning of the pod, so I'll leave it there. But as I have said before on the pod, one of my great fears throughout my life has been, obviously losing your pet. That's just a horrible thing, that I would die and that my cat would not understand what had happened to me. That was something that used to torment me every time I left the house. So it was very sad to see Earl learn about Hal's passing in that manner.

I was glad that John and Earl were able to rediscover their spark pretty quickly. You know, that's a lovely thing to see. Yeah. You and Rob went through it, but I also was thinking about the location of Earl's perch. Bedside? It's intimate. It's intimate. I was glad that, you know, you and Rob,

discussed the fridge meat situation given your respective culinary pursuits and that you guys had a chance to work through that with each other. I wouldn't say we worked through anything. I would say the battle goes on. How do you feel? I mean, I know you don't keep a ton of. Yeah, we don't really, we're not like cook. Yeah. Well, so as you know, I am I am very paranoid about all sorts of like health and safety issues. So I mean, you're on my side. I see what both of you were saying. You can just say you're on my side. I think that the like I think that Rob's let's cook the meat while it's nice and fresh. Sure, of course.

Preparable, obviously. Wonderful. I would like my meat to not be rotten. Rotten. Same. But I don't feel equipped to comment on when that happens as somebody who is mostly ordering my food. So I don't know. Wow, there are good people on both sizes arguments as Malia Rubin.

The other thing is the bad baby. want you to weigh on it is so we find out it's canonical this thing that you had been hoping for the hot yet possibly evil sheriff carry and hal yeah they've been fucking they had a relationship an intimate emotionally intimate well and a change and afresh in the sheets and hopefully quite physically intimate relationship we did not get to see it on screen it happened off screen how do you feel about that listen uh on the one hand i'll take implied sex over no sex uh-huh we have have one episode to go still in the season and I am I'm holding out for flashbacks. Oh, flashbacks. Okay, great. Follow up. Yeah. Now that we know that the halogram is corporeal, which was a big question I had,

he can touch things. That's right. Would you settle for a halogram 20 years earlier on the old back muscles, you know, on the old like limber situation? I think that I think that until the second Hal Jordan and left this mortal coil. Those hips were ready to thrust. Okay. You know, so any... I missed you. I missed you.

There's a lot that Rob can do, but he can't do that. You know, I was sad, really sad to miss that pot. It was wonderful to listen to you guys talk about it. I had a great time on vacation. I am jet-lagged as fucking barely hanging on. My eyelids or sunburnt, but wasn't going to miss talking about this episode. There was no way we were going to have this episode happen without you. Like zero chance.

No, there's so much to get to. And I want to say, I want to thank you for commenting on the jacket, the new jacket as well. You're welcome. I do that for you. When you feel seen and known and understood, yeah, it makes a difference. You want to talk about Martin Jordan's jacket? Well, that was really actually genuinely, that was kind of clarifying because as you know,

I've been very hung up on the halogram jacket and that felt like even though they're, they're different. That's a very like a matching leather hue. And yes, that felt like a connection to Martin, to dad. So that was clarifying. My favorite Hal jacket is still the primary 2016 double RL jacket, which is simply iconic, but they've all been great. Yeah, I hope that we get to see some actual sex, whether it's with the halogram or in a flashback, I'll all accept either. I'll accept them gladly.

I'm glad to know that those two really connected. We have a lot of opportunities in this episode to talk about that. My favorite thing in episode six, though, was the eulogy. And I thought that I hope it mattered. I hope I mattered was just gobsmacking and gorgeous and absolutely wrenching and really, really just incredible. And there were a lot of incredible things in this episode, which I thought was absolutely wonderful. Episode seven was my favorite of the season so far. Episode seven is by far my favorite of the season so far.

So this is the Jordan Boys Legacy, directed by Alec Sackeroff, who is a Thrones guy. He did The Climb and Mockingbird, among other episodes. An Ozark guy, so he knows Chris Muddy from his work on Ours. He did worked on Rome, Dexter, boardwalk, you know, sort of like he was like Alan Taylor's DP before he was a director. So like I always love when people make the move from from cinematography to directing and then they always have like a very distinctive visual style. And I think visually this episode is quite special. And in addition to all the other things. Chris Monday, if you listen to the official podcast, Chris Mundy was like very clear that when they

get to the yellow planet that we have at the end of the episode, he's like, that was not in the volume. We were out in a desert somewhere. Obviously, CGI enhanced. But I think the visuals of this, you know, because we've been off world to go to, you know, a prison, but to go to another planet and sort of see what another world would look like inside of this grounded, you know, universe that they're trying to give us was really excited. An apocalyptic hellscape.

That happens to be yellow. Yellow? Notable. Could be interesting. written by Tom King, have you heard of him? Dan and Lindelof have you heard of him? And I got to say, Power Squad.

This is not surprising to me that this was my favorite episode of the season. This is the Linda Loffiest episode of the series so far. It is daddy issues all the way down. Yep. Could not be more. What's the greatest answer to a mystery of person? What's in the box?

It's Sinestro. It's a planet, but it's also Sinestro. What's in the hatch? It's Desmond. What's in the box? It's Sinestro. There's just like a lot of like incredible therapy speak that works for me. You know, how do we break, you know, cycles, generational cycles.

Just like all this stuff was such a rich text for me. And the way in which we got to see this relationship between Hal and John, the one they couldn't have in life that comes through here in the afterlife. to watch this hal, even though he is like a kinder, gentler howl, but still a quite damaged hal, to watch him grapple with finding out, A, what a terrible, finding out, again, what a terrible mentor he was to John, but also, you know, I was in jail. I was in love. Oh, my God. You know, finding out that he was capable of having a relationship with a woman and, and capable. And then it was over so quickly, like just at the end of his life, you know. And then what that. unscrews on, you know, that lid unscrewed on sort of his shame and trauma and how that allows him to then share with John inside this episode. I just thought this was phenomenal, phenomenal episode television. Yeah, I really, really adored this one. I think this one will, the whole season has been great, but I think this episode will really stand the test of time and stick with us. I can't wait to see, you know, knowing there's only an hour left. It feels like we're on the brink of a really

strong conclusion to this season. And also there are a lot of questions to answer and mysteries that remain. But we have made such thematic and emotional progress. And it's a hard balancing act to be able to continue to propel the plot forward in this way while really allowing us to feel that we have made that individual and collective growth for our characters. I obviously agree on the on the Lindelaw front. You know, you feel all of those hallmarks here in such a satisfying way. And again, Like to be able to do that, you know, Lost is one of our shared favorites in a show that we just, we adore. And we love to think about it. And we love to revisit and we'd love to spot connections to across shows that are clearly influenced by it, whether or not people who helped to make loss or run loss were involved. Can I just tell you that Adam Scott in the New York Times like top 100 shows, Adam Scott being like, you know, I watched, I rewatch loss as we were making Severance season one. And I'm like, I know. I know. I know you did. Guess what? I know.

It's a wonderful rewatch. You know, there were so many episodes of Lost, and nothing can touch Lost. It's just a, it's a pantheon show, but. Yeah, when are we even the tattoo episode of Lanterns? I know, I know. Oh, man, I think about those jack tattoos a lot. But yeah, I mean, even the fact that like, different contexts, but the word failsafe is invoked here. You know, you mentioned the hatch.

when we get that framing of Hal and John looking into the box, it is so Jack and John looking down into the hatch in a way that really just invites those parallels. But as you said, the daddy issue is the question of what we inherit and what we pass down and what we feel we can or can't escape, what we're defined by, what path we can try to chart for ourselves. It's also present. I think it was really great to hear Tom King talk on the official pod

about the trauma that is so present in his work and why he loves to mind that and explore that. And even how he thinks about continuity, and that, of course, is connected to the idea that is right there in the title of this episode and very present thematically in this episode in this season, which is like legacy, right?

And some of that is inside your family or inside your core. And some of that is something that you build over time. And some of it is something that a version of you realizes you couldn't build over time and how hard that is to confront. I thought that this episode is an examination of, like, missed connections,

brief connections, lost connections, and then second chances in surprising forms was just really, really lovely. And I just am so delighted to be back to talk about it with you. Jet lag and all. Let's just get right into the deep dive, shall we? Let's do it.

All right, so we open with a Hal, Dorden, flashback, cold open. This is obviously not our first flashback of the season, but again, I think it is the lostiest that we've gotten so far. We're in 1975. Could have easily been 1976, but we did 1975.

We broke the... We've shifted. The decades pattern. Just as we did with Carrie, that was a fun little wrinkle there. It's true. Well, I kind of like that idea that, like, you know, those 10-year increments are sort of John's path. And then, like, Carrie and Hall are on a different path, something like that. But you and I had talked about this earlier in the season of, like, whether or not we would get a Hal flashback episode and we got the John Flashback episode.

And I think we both agreed. I mean, I certainly think this was your story. stands was sort of like if we got a whole hell flashback episode it would depend when they would deploy it it might sort of halt the momentum of the season so instead of getting a full flashback episode we get a sort of like lengthy open and then a you know book end inside of this episode yeah so how did that sort of parceling of the story work for you i thought this was the perfect choice you know as we discussed a lot when we dove into episode three it is tricky to figure out the right way in place to do this, as we also talked about at that time, you know, the lost

approach to flashbacks where you are in the primary contemporary timeline and the thing that you're glimpsing from the past allows you to understand or unlock something and, you know, a different degree of context from what the character is going through. There's no real way to do that without literally doing that, right? It's just, it's just true. Yeah. And so, To distill this down in such a fashion. And of course, we have moved through time. We have moved through different structures in some capacity in every episode, right? We're not always just rooted in one moment.

To give us this moment with Hal, I think especially because, like, you know, thinking about episode six, that diner scene, right, the cafe scene, John goes led by Bernadette, he has this one conversation with Hal and then instantly how it's gone, it's gone, it's over, right? Right. And the proximity of those things, the interaction, the thing we glimpsed, and then the realization that there would never be another opportunity for it, at least in that form, you know, to open this episode with young Hal. And like, some of it is what has happened inside of the season, but some of it is just lanterns. Hal Jordan's father has died and that is a seismic defining thing in his life. And we know that. For the very first episode of this season. Yeah. And we know that from the film and we know that from comics canon. And we know it's just in the air. And so there is this, even though I found so much of what we witnessed in this opening stretch, which I'm excited to talk about like every part of this opening, I thought it was amazing.

So like affirming and heartening, even though there are little warning bells inside of it, right? Yeah. I would say many. Starting a fight with your sons coach. We have some notes. It does not. Or like. Brother, I told about it.

Or, you know, like telling your child the story of the mental health history and your family and saying. Don't tell your mom. Don't tell your mom. You've got to carry. She can't carry it. You can't. You a child have to carry it. We have some things to work through.

I have notes. But also then there's this glimpse of this bond and to know, and we hear, you know, later just a couple months, a couple months later. Right. We know how close it is. But before we even know, we know we are watching this one thing and that it's going to be all we see because Martin's gone. And that's just hanging over that whole interaction, the finality of it and the loss. And the voice that we have from the beginning of the season, Hal saying, well, like, once a kid loses their parent, that's the worst thing that can happen. What else is there to be afraid of?

And the clarity that comes from what we witness in this flashback, but also then what we hear the hallogram share with John, right, on the lake, on the boat, what he carried with him. And the way that his navigation of his assessment of his own fear and his own feelings and this idea of his inheritance, led him to this life of a mask in many forms. Like it was just so, so, so sad. I found it absolutely heartbreaking. Also some incredible needle drops in this episode, including the stretch. My gosh. Very Mallory core to hit you with the Dylan.

We got a Dylan cover and Queen. Like, come on. It's for you. It really felt like it was. For you to bring up the structure of loss, which is inside of an episode of Lost, as we mentioned before, we get flashbacks that help illuminate

the plot that's unfolding in front of us. We get a version of that inside of this series, but it's done less directly. And what it does is it rewards rewatches. Oh, yes. And so as we're peeling back the onion of understanding on 1st John, then Carrie a bit,

and now on, on Hal, when you go back and rewatch, it just like all these lines take on different meaning, you know? And so every time that Hal has talked about his father, throughout the season, you can go and rewatch those. Or every time he talks about,

not being afraid. And then we find out that, like, you know, he's one of the most fearful people alive. Right. I know from experience in my own family, like, anytime there is like mental health or dementia or all this sort of stuff that feels like a ticking time bomb inside of you, this idea that like his father tells him like, you know, it's in the blood. Yeah. Which is like curse language. You are cursed. And this came from my father. And it's coming for me. And it's going to come for you. And so for young Hal on the TV to say like you lose your father, what else is there to be afraid of? Yeah. But he's in a full body clench of fear.

Yes, absolutely. That he is going to become his father. And there are many ways in which he like ran towards becoming his father from the jacket to, you know, the charm and the swag. You know, like, and this depiction of Martin Jordan. And again, this is just like what incredibly good writers can do with very little screen time and a great and a great performance. Yes. Like, Jake Miller as Martin Jordan, we only get a few minutes of screen time with him. Yeah.

But you just like, he's, it's just the perfect encapsulation of the kind of dad that a young kid who doesn't really fully understand the scope of what's happening. The damaging thing that his father is doing to him in his moment would just hero worship. His dad is cool and handsome and nice to him, you know, and like. Tender. Funny and like kind and says it's okay to be afraid. Yes. But also, here's some lifelong. damage that I'm just about to hang around your neck via a key, you know, like all this sort of stuff.

So like all of that looming over Hal and informing who he becomes, who he doesn't want to be, informing why he might never make a connection with Carol, let alone anyone else. If he's like, if I make a connection with people and then I become what my father became, what my grandfather became, then I'm going to devastate them the way that my father devastated me and devastated my mother. Yes. You know? And so like I cannot have people around me.

because I am a bomb. It makes it easier, no ties. Yeah. Keep people at a distance for their own safety. It's a lonely fucking job. And it's like something that he positions to John in episode four when he says those things is for their safety, but also there's a self-preservation aspect to it. I think to your question about like, how did this work as the moment and the way to get this? I think that this show, any good show, any nuanced assessment of a human being would say that there are infinite moments in your life that determine.

in who you are and that inform who you are, right? But I think also there is an aspect of this that is an acknowledgement that there are certain things in your life that are just bigger than other things, right? And that cast a shadow. They are there forever. And that part of the way that you can try to understand them or look at them in a different way is

with the help of other people. And that if you shut yourself, offer that. I mean, I think what we saw on this was like, I love what you're saying about that this would be the guy that How would worship. And of course. And there are even just something about, you know, how Jordan baseball guy is like a canon, but it means even more to me in the Kyle Chandler verse, obviously, something so perfect about the story we get in the idea of the pitcher, this question, you know, I thought you were a team player, are you a team player son? That that was there before even Martin's death, this question of like, Hal, are you a guy who's going to end up

being friends with the other members of the Lantern Corps? You know, there's something there are ready. And then there's something that deepens and calcifies and concretizes. The fact that Hal looks at his father and sees so much love and pride and belief and encouragement and the loss of that that he would want to live his life in that person's image, right? He said he was fearless. He told me my grandpa said he was fearless and that that's what he's going to project and tell himself and that he will understand that whole time that there is something underneath that. That is very different indeed and that everybody carries. And the fact that Martin primed Hal for this but didn't actually tell him. Like that's, Hal finds that in a piece of paper. Right. That clarity. He's like

something that's stay between your father and me and you won't understand. Exactly. Yeah. It's, it's so good. The team aspect that you raise, I think is fascinating because we get two scenes inside of this episode where we, we rattle off the names of several teammates. We get the names of the boys on the Tigers with Hal. here and then later we'll get the names of Noah's lineman. And so and the way, the contrast between Noah, we've decided on this podcast

is some flavor of villain. When we talked about it in episode five, I think we were like 98, 99% We had just, it's like, it's like a hundred percent, 99.99% that he is a man hunter. I think we were there. any, but it's just, it's, it feels like a lock. No, definitely a Manhunter.

What, what he did is still, I think, a question. But I think no matter what the Manhunter quality of him is, carries with it a sinister implication. Sure. And so the idea that like Noah, who is some flavor of villain inside of the story is like the team player, is the guy who like won't do his hat ceremony without his guys there. Yep.

His offensive linemen, his defense, you know, like his protection. Yeah. Look at you. For sure. You know what I mean? But like I understand this sort of like manhunter impulse for protection. Yes. But, you know, so like I need to have my like guys around me in case a sniper comes.

So they'll like throw their body in front of me or something like that. Like all of that is in the mix with this manhand. Are the aliens sending you any different from the edge rushers trying to sack you at the end of the day? I was going to see the same thing. Something to think about. Question for our time. It's a great question. But.

But nonetheless. If we were to look at these two guys and say like, one of them wants all of his guys at his ceremony and the other one wants to punch all of them and you would say who's the hero, who's the villain, that's the muddy question that this show is asking for us, which I really love. All right.

Oh, and he says his defense, so I really love the title this episode, right? The Jordan Boys legacy will hit it a bunch of times. The Jordan Boys, first of all, just like really hits at this Arrested Development. aspect that is true of Martin and is true of Hal. I like them both, but they are boys and not men in many regards, right? It reminds me of like, Germany has declared war on the Jones boys, like, thinking about, like, which is another one of my favorite stories of all times, a great father and son story, but like the Jordan boys, the Jones boys. Thinking about John Stewart as one of the Jordan boys, essentially, like, you know, given the key that he receives, you know.

That's a great arm kid coming back as an echo at the end from Hal to John. Yeah, that's a great arm kid. But another repeated line is here in his defense, young Hal in his tiger's uniform just says, come on, which is the same exact thing that Hal Jordan said in court in Rushville. When the judge is talking to him, and he's just like, in my defense, come on. You know, and it's just sort of like same as it ever was for Hal Jordan. He's still that kid in many regards. I would like to know what we mean by almost no hitter.

Just throwing that out there. Okay. What is it almost? Is it one? Is it one hit? Do you give a three hits? Okay. You know, I would have some follow-up questions.

If you were the coach, would you let Hal Jordan finish the game? Oh, yeah. I side with Martin and Hal at the end of the day here. Even though Little League is sort of about like, let's let all the boys play. I mean, of course, as always, it's in a good tale, it's complex. Yeah. you know, and you feel a little bit ashamed of where you're like, brother, it's all that matters. I was like, brother, it's all that matters. Danny Bachner stuff. How many chances do you get

to complete a note? The Danny Bochner slander from Hall here was so funny. Like, Danny fucking Bockner. I'm going to hand the ball in Danny fucking Bacher. How good is Danny Bockner stuff? This was just, this killed me. It was so clarifying. It really did just cement so much for us in a really, really great way. You fought your whole team like you sat same as it ever was, right? With who this. The bar fight that we watch, you know, we watch Hal take on the entire bar to, you know, to land his ass in jail. A total, like, the more things change. Yeah. Glimps of the past, even though so much will change and does change for Hal and there are these progressions.

And that feels very true, too, to me about human nature, that there are, like, things that are there forever. And then there are things that evolve, right? I thought also just, like, on the same as it ever was front, you know, coach saying to, to Martin and to how you can still fix this. Just apologize. Well, if there's one thing we know how Jordan doesn't like to do, now Hallogram will wind up in a different place. But our primary Hal like drove all the way for sorry you're not going to get. Yeah.

Right? And so that's there too. And in general, even something like, okay, whether it's the mogo or the squirrel, okay, where people really at my funeral, why are you lying to me test later or really rich thematic moments like this, I think that the show has been very, very deft, like even expert at

forging these connections and bits of very few things have been tossed. We've been saying this the whole season. Like it feels like everything is purposeful. Very few things have been tossed out that are just like, they're here and they're not going to matter and you're not going to feel the ripple or the parallel in some other point of the season. There's just been a very satisfying aspect of watching it. It makes it all feel like a very

yeah, we were talking about sort of like the tight weave on the tapestry of the story or very like sturdy puzzle. And I feel that way about many turns of the plot here. Like the, the tidiness of how coming back, halogram appearing, wondering if John's the one who killed him, insisting on seeing the sheriff.

Yeah. And the sheriff just happens to be the love interest who he needs to like have this very tender scene with. But like that's such tidy storytelling. You know what I mean? Like this is a on the shorter side of runtime episode. And there's just like, there's just like 47 minutes. Just so lean.

So lean. Okay. Brother, it's all the fucking matters too. Just the turn. This is great because there are layers. Like it's comic. This is so ringer. This is so ringer core. Brother, it's all that matters.

Brother, it's all the fuckers. I do, you're right. Like I actually feel we will be quoting that pretty regularly moving forward. We'll have the really tender. I hope I'm. mattered references and then one of the brother it's all the fucking matters brother it's all the fucking matters is like so

ringer and it's so like why sometimes I am like should I be here? Stop! Stop it! Father to son by Queen plays. There's the pitcher but there's like there's the test pilot like fighter pilot

aspect of this. There's the lantern. There's the earth's first hero. The fact that you have, there's like something on there's an underbelly of that Right. Brother, it's all the fucking matters. That's bad. And like dangerous and reckless. No question, right? Undeniably. And then there's a little bit of that. What level of that do you need in you to be able to like say that ring is mine? And then if you have it, but you're terrified to lose it because it's the only thing that defines you. But what's so great. I mean, we've been talking about this from the beginning, but like what's so great about 2006 Howl versus 2016 Hal is like, you know as again as we address the daddy issues all the way down the like pre-senestro betrayal post-sinestro betrayal watching hal say you've got my ring like at being upset and then being like

kind of genuinely like all the pride congratulations yeah you know what i mean like i trained you and now you're the green lantern and it's just sort of like that's amazing that's incredible when he realizes john can keep keep him activated when he takes the ring off like that's all it is all so shocking and yeah so the fact that you can see this martin defending his son moment and feel a level of like oh boy that kid had a father who stood up for him and that's like there's something heartening about that. But it's almost like Jordan, like it's almost like Jordan, like, Jordan, were treated even more into the Martin Jordan. That's all the fucking matters sort of sentiment and just clutch the baseball that much tighter.

That's right. What I was going to say about like sort of where this comes versus where it would come inside of an episode of loss is if it were an episode of lost with 22 episodes of season, how clutching the baseball and how grasping the ring in a fight with John would, would be in the side of the same episode and there would just be like a whooshing cut from one to the other. You know what I mean?

And the lines that they drew would be like a bit more overt because we would have time to just like be in that moment. Right. And that's not really the time that they're working with here. But the parallels are, could not be clear.

It's not like it's hard to draw those to yourself. Father to son, a great needle drop, a very on the nose needle drop, but I'm not mad about it. When it comes back at the end of the episode, who boy. There's a bunch of lyrics that we could get into

inside of this song. But here's a section. Won't you hear us sing our family song? Our family song really feels like our family curse sort of thing. Like this is our legacy, right? Now we hand it on. But I've heard it all before.

Take this letter that I give you. Obviously, like that's the most on the nose part about all this. Take it, sunny, hold it high. You won't understand a word that's in it, but you'll write it all again before you die. Again, there's like a, you know, we got some emails about this song and people saying like, I never thought of it as like a naked. If it was always very much like, you don't understand what your parents are going through until you become an adult yourself.

Like there, and that's all true. Yeah. But like, you won't understand where that's in it, but you'll write it all again before you die is so to me once again, sort of like fatalistic curse language of just sort of like, here's this letter that I'm giving my son that explains the mental health, you know. strain that runs in our family of depression, you know, it's not named, but that's what I would say. Maybe it's something else. But like, you will write it all again before you die is like you're going to write your own letter to someone else. And it's going to say the same thing that mine said and that my father said. And that's not what happened.

I hope. I hope that how the Hallogram's theory inside this episode that Hal took his own life is not what happened. It's not what happened. But it is a theory we need to like consider. It's certainly in play. I think it, I agree. It's something we have to consider and it feels possible.

I think the fact that we move through a series of theories from Hallogram, as you noted, the John question. He's really like, she killed me about Carrie. And then what he says about himself and it's such a heart-wrenching sequence,

I, you know, there's a moment where Hal says, the hallogram says to John about Zoe when they're like talking through the Manhunter stuff, oh, Hal-Killard her and that's why you hate him. The gut, the gut, can be wrong. The Halogram's gut is not right in this episode. And that feels he's catching up. He doesn't have the same information.

I would say, any version of Howl's gut has not been right. For sure. Plenty of time. That's part of that. Brother, it's all that matters. Bravado, right. Like I'm going to say, I'm always right. I'm going to think I'm always right because that's what I have to project to myself

into the world. But it felt like a way inside of just this episode to kind of remind us of that so that we're like, okay, probably Noah killed this guy, maybe Billy. Yeah, welcome to Theory Corner, Hallogram. We're happy to have you here. We're happy to put John and Carrie and yourself on the board. But yeah, you're missing Noah and you're missing Billy, which I think are both very good. They are contenders one and two. I thought that the- How much is Jason Ritter being on the official pod this week make you think that Billy is the killer? So I'm still leaning, I think I'm if I had to just put down.

like my firm bet. I still lean Noah. I think Noah is still the safest bet, but I think has risen up. Billy is like, I think would be like actually at this point, yeah, the most surprising answer, which makes it kind of fun. Yeah. And it wouldn't, but it wouldn't be surprising in that like really annoying rug pull kind of way. No, no, no. I think it would feel very well. Again, to our like Jason Ritter casting spoiler almost like, why is Jason Ritter here in this role? Like, sure. And he's just shown, he showed up last week. He showed up this week. He showed up this You know, like, he's talking about his dip. He's, he's starting fights with lanterns.

He's feeling threatened by them. Like, yeah. You know? I think the, like, keep my son's name out of your mouth. Like, I need to come. I'm saying to, I, Billy, in this scenario, I'm saying to Carrie, like, I made our dip. At our house, this, like, I haven't let go of this thing. And I'm finding my way to, like, glimpse and access and charge over.

There's a moment not to jump ahead and too far around, but there's, you know, that really gorgeous moment where I heard in the hallogram asked Carrie, like, you know, you know, did I open up to you? Did I tell you things? Oh, we told each other or everything. Feels like that is leading toward. I told you, Noah is a manhunter and then you, a former lantern, had to kind of spring into action. So that could mean that Noah took action or it can mean that Billy in an effort to defend, Billy watching. Or Kerry in an effort to defend Noah.

Sure. And what, though, I got to say on the like the trailer for next week front, that lit. I'm mostly moving off of did it corner just in general after this episode because and I still think it's all still in the brew of like the pain could be I loved you and I had to do this thing and that's all possible but there's a little I mostly am like I don't I kind of don't want that to be the outcome honestly that's more that was just not necessarily a great way to watch TV but like I there's that little glimpse in the in the preview for next week of her like the shock on her face as she walks up those bleachers I don't know I here's here's my current theory. Yeah. Noah and or Billy probably no, but maybe Billy did it. Carrie is covering.

Found, discovered the truth. Yeah, because there's that line about when maybe she cast, you know, found me and put the gun away to protect me, but that logic would apply to. There's like she wants to be there when they open the vaults. That was, you know what I mean? Like so suspicious. Yes, but that could also just be the Noah was a manhunter reveal info in there. But not necessarily. True. And then also the like, The loaded look that Noah and Carrie share during the hat ceremony, where it was, to me, it's hard to read that exchange, but to me, if I had to guess right now, having not seen the finale, I would say, like, he told her he was leaving.

You know what I mean? Like, she's like, he's got to leave, he's going to leave town and go to college. And that's like a deal they struck. And he like went back on the, it almost feels like. She was surprised for sure. And there's like ways you can be surprised where you're like a bunch of people have to come to my house now. And we were all like said you were going to do this. But there seemed to be like more something more loaded in the in the looks exchanged between them. Where it's just almost like I'll cover for you, but you got to get out of town or something like that. But I don't know. He's like we got to play this game. And certainly it feels like something will happen at that football game. Much as something happened at the football game that kicked off the season. I was curious about that. So because some a line that the Hallogram has in this episode is he's like, I'll be gone before. sunrise. So, you know, are they making it back for the game tonight? I think they have to. If you mention in a Kyle Chandler show that there's a Friday night football game, like, I think

we have to go there. No question. We also have to have a showdown at the house with the shotgun and Earl and stuff like that. Yes, a lot of checkoffs. Yeah. X still waiting for us. The game is in the preview for the finale. So whether everyone is there for it or not, something meaningful feels like it'll happen there. I can't wait to talk through the hats that were on display when we get to that scene. I think the other thing on the Billy front is just like that, you know, when we talked a lot about what did Zoe say to Noah, right, remember all the lessons. But there was also the like the thing to Billy was you're here to protect him. And so that's more Billy fodder as well with like the he felt like, you know, protecting his son, but also part of the mission. You know, Jason Rudder did it.

It's just like an answer I'd happily have. And honestly, like, Billy was on on my like list. Yeah. Him being on the official pod this week, like, just, like, just, like, bumped it up a little bit because I'm just sort of like, they just want to remind us that there's nothing that Jason Ritter did in this episode that you would be like, we have to have him on the pod this week. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Other than to be like, he's going to be important next week, you know.

I'm, like, putting it at like 51, 49% split between Noah and Billy at this point. Either feels completely in bounds. I was doing some real free-stream Mahoney on the, like, you know, it's like a 50-second minute teaser for next week, but then going back to the mid-season trailer, which I don't think we ever talked about because it came out after episode five. There's a lot of stuff we haven't seen that's in that trailer. There's most meaningfully of all, of course,

the missing flesh on our guy there. But in that same sequence, you know, Hal is on the ground and he's looking up. And we don't see the face. We don't see the torso, but we see the legs, the feet and the legs. And I was like, whose jeans are those? Whose boots?

Who's belt? Like, it feels to me like it's most likely Noah is walking in that room. But I was like, are those Billy's legs? like, I was like, those are some thick thighs, you know, all state quarterback. Is that Noah or those, I don't know. Or has Jason Ritter been winning the squats? It's possible. It's a good question. On the belly front. Yes. And then we will get back to this 975. We'll get back to five five. But on the billy front. Yeah. Yeah. And this is my most important question of the week. Okay. I'm excited. What do you think his dip is? I'm thinking it's some sort of like seven layer dip.

But it could be like a spinach artichoke dip. What do you think? Buffalo chicken. Yeah. That seems. That seems. That seems. That seems. likely. That's my like number one guess. Yeah. Something with meat, something with cheese. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, again, it could be like a like a like a like a like a like a like a like a taco dip or something. But to taco. Absolutely could be a taco dip. Yeah. That feels like too many steps. I feel like I've watched men make buffalo chicken dip and it's really just dump like a few things in a crockbot and said it and forget it. So that seems like. It's amazing. And very like meaty cheesy sort of like Midwesterny. I mean, we know that Billy was, you know, pulling double duty at the bar. So who knows how many delicious snacks. He's whipped up in addition to his delicious cocktails.

Do you have a favorite dip? Like, what would Billy, if Billy were trying to dazzle his way back into the house that you shared once upon a time, what would be the most successful dip he could bring? That's a good question. I like a spinach dip. I like an artichoke dip. Obviously, I'm from Maryland, so I like a crab dip. That's probably number one. A good crab dip, but a bad crap dip.

They're not doing crab dip. They're certainly not doing that. They're certainly not doing that. I'm like Nebraska. Rushville, Nebraska. That would be one. Wonderful. Yeah.

Like a soft pretzel and some crab dip. That's a great one. Really love that. Here's what I would say. Baba Ginoosh. Babi ganush. I mean, I love a Baba Ganesh.

That's a great baba ginoosh the other day. But I don't think that Billy's smoking egg plant. So, you know. Maybe not. So in this like memory soaked golden light or is that fear, golden light of nostalgia, golden light of fear on the airfield. We see the Jordan boys enjoying red white and blue popsicles. Love a rocket pop.

How still in his tiger's uniform. I'm much more astropop than I am Rocket Pop. I love all sorts of popsicles. I was a big chase down the ice cream truck kid. You know what I love? The baseball glove with the bubble gum ball. Do you ever have those? No.

Oh, it's like the ice cream pop is like a mitt, kind of a pinky brown. And then there's a bubble gum ball that looks like a baseball right in the middle. Young Hal Jordan would have loved it. With love to you. Disgusting. Fucking great. The gum is so, now I haven't had one in like 30. Like hard and warable?

Two years probably. Is it like a bazoo? Joe style bubble gum? It's like, it is, yeah, not even close to as like velvety when you finally break through the, a couple choose in

to a hard piece of bazooka. No, Bazook Joe is forever like, I mean, it's a piece of concrete when you're taking that first bite, but then you get, you soften it up. You can't really do that with the baseball gum

in the middle of the popsicle, but it's still delicious. On the, is it the light of fear, the golden light? I, this felt very to me, again, there's a lot of really heavy, intense stuff to parse here. This still did feel to me ultimately like a show us the shire, you know, show us the bond

and the heart of this connection that is lost because we have to understand how much this person meant to hell and we do, obviously. I also just really like the fact that like, you know, he's in his base, still in his baseball uniform. Yeah. His dad's in his flyboy jacket, you know, face all bruised up from fighting his literal coach. Great choice. Incredible.

You know, eating red, white, blue popsicles. like Norman Rockwell wept. Like this is the most Americana sort of thing you could think of and then contrast that with the sort of like pageantry of Americana that we get at the hat ceremony when it's like we, you know, it's just sort of like the caption

is like patriotic music plays. You know, it's just so much more like performative than this sort of like honey dipped shire the thing worth defending. Yeah. And this idea that like so I, you know, I'll have again more thoughts on the hat ceremony as a college football enthusiasts and someone who's been through my share of national signing day ceremonies

and just in general, like what the hat ceremony and that choice represents and the way that it really genuine, I thought in general, the NOAA stuff did a great job of striking the balance of like, there's something very authentic about how the stuff actually goes. It's all credit to my offensive line. The whole town is like, you're this, we have gotten to gather and watch you excel. And also that it felt undeniably connected to everything we've been primed for on the, this is how the Manhunter operates inside. of the community that he is nurturing to put on his Noah's arc. All great.

There was something about what we saw here with Hal and Martin that was just like, this is how they spend their time, right? To your point. Like the just authentic glimpse. They're at the airfield. So this is like where Martin does his work. This is where Howell end up spending so much of his life. But just the idea that they pop out the cooler and they pop out the chairs and they look across

the way and they sit and they sit. And maybe they sit in their silence and maybe they sit in some sort of thing that they share with each other. You scared? No, it's okay if you are. I'm not. Then put it on. Like what a perfect little moment for us to see because there's a little bit of something in Martin there when he's like, put it on. You know. But also the like it's okay if you are. I know, which is more than like John Sr. or Bernadette ever gave John, I will just say. The most important thing that a father could say to a kid or a mother, but that a parent could say to their child. That's what's so interesting about Martin. He's just such like an interesting, like, contradictory cocktail. Yeah.

I've just sort of like let it go. It's exhausting to hold on to it. But also. Don't carry it. But carry this. I know. Carry this key, which is much heavier, honestly. Yeah.

The way in which this, you know, bequeathing of the key, which comes with this, Are you afraid, which is just the same thing as what happens when you get the ring, right? Like, you know, are you afraid? Here's this ring. Are you afraid? Here's this key. Like, here's this exchange. of jewelry of some kind and like here's what you get to carry and here's the burden and what it

represents and yeah that thing we heard house say to john in episode four when they were tunneling in you know to the making ranch of like you know what was he like fearless and there's the smirk and the side smile one house says that but then right away at least that's what he wanted people to think which was a great like early half seed for us that there was more to martin's story that we would get um we get this whole story about the safe um um A man's job, a man's job is make preparations and his were locked up in a safe in the back of his closet. Akita is fail safe, literal guy or grandpa. What preparations did Hal make for his two sons, John and Earl?

Right, exactly. I mean, how much meat is there for Earl? Not enough. The Jordan boys. John and Earl. How are they being prepared for? I loved this because, again, a very complicated, rich text here, there were only two outcomes. He would either succeed or he would fail.

something that we've talked about since the beginning of the season with the fear and, you know, Will and like the Jedi Council Comp that you invoked in the first episode. When you have like when you exist in a- Do or do not, there is no try? When you exist in a binary. It's all the fucking matters. It's all that's all the fuck matters. It's great.

It's hard to reduce a life to an either-or. And so when you compare that framing. It's not hard. It's stupid. It's impossible. Yeah. And so when you compare. that framing. And again, I think there's such

tenderness and love from Martin here. No, the intentions are good. Yeah, there's the shame. But the messaging is bad and old fashioned. This is also an episode under show about this job. Well, the man's responsibility. And that idea of responsibility too, and then how Hal thinks about being a hero and what is, what are you responsible for? Don't tell your mom. Don't tell your mom. The toxic modeling of romantic relationships that happens here from Martin Jordan, who's just sort of like, I'm not going to tell your mom and you can't

tell your mom. By the way, by the way. Yeah. We know his mom's name. It's Jessica. Jordan. There's an actress cast as Jessica Jordan. We do see the back of her head at the funeral. But like it's a very Tolkien family tree. It doesn't really matter who the mom was

where daddy issues territory. Now, we have Bernadette. Holding down for mommy issues. We might have some Carrie. We might have some Zoe grandmommy issues sort of stuff in the mix. But this is at its core a daddy issue story right now and

Jessica Jordan doesn't much matter. to the conversation. I think that is like very emblematic of, you know, how do you think, how, Martin, Hal, any of the characters, John, John Sr., how did these characters think about their own shame and insecurity and, of course, fear, right? That's the word that is invoked most often,

but those things are all connected to each other, their doubt. And what do you want to or feel compelled to shield or protect somebody from? And so I think there's a version of this where you could look at what Martin does and say that he didn't want his wife to have to carry that and know that. But also then there's the like, but you make your son do it for his entire life. And think he has to do it alone. And also, I'm like, you know, if I'm being so generous to Martin, who I like who I like and want to be generous too. Like it is lovely to say I don't want my wife to have to carry this.

But like, you know what you really don't want your wife to have to do? Live without you. And maybe if you had some. conversations with her about what you were struggling with, you know, maybe this all could have gone differently if you were allowing yourself to be vulnerable, which is the cycle. Yeah. Now, ultimately, he dies soon thereafter, but the cycle that Hal Jordan breaks when he allows himself to be vulnerable with Carrie.

Now, maybe the message is, don't tell the mother of a manhunter all of your deepest darkest secrets. It might not work out well for you. But that's not, that's not the message. Because the fact that he found love at all and that kind of intimacy, intimacy and that kind of vulnerability, I think is endlessly. important to hell. And the fact that that allows him then the hologram to open up to John is so important. I was thinking back to the question you asked earlier in the season when we were starting really to

speculate about Carrie. And like she was a suspect from day one in some capacity. But they're like, well, what would the message be if we want them to get together and form this connection? And then she's the one who kills them. What would that say to us about you open up and then what? And that just simply doesn't feel like what the show is trying to say. No. No, no. I don't think, I definitely don't think that's the The show's like, don't open up to someone. No, of course not. So that feels like it all, it's part of the why I've really moved, carry down the suspect list because I think, I do think there is still a way to do it.

That is very much like their connection was genuine and sincere and it was devastating that she had to do this to protect her son. That would work, actually. You don't like my It's Okay Buttercup theory. I did like, I really did like It's Okay Buttercup as the theory and something that you guys returned to appropriately many times in the episode three pod. you know, on the like either succeed or he would fail. First of all, that's a lot of pressure to put on yourself, right?

There's so much in between. It's just simply not true. No, and then you think, but you think so what I was thinking about. Do we're doing about, but also try because sometimes it's okay. Exactly. You know, the greatest teacher failure is we are what, what they move beyond. I was thinking about last Jedi a lot actually watching this episode and how like. We often are.

We often are. And often because that emotional. nuance and assessment of growth and how you're understanding of in relationship to the things that define you changes over time felt so important actually right and I think that like either succeed or he would fail in contrast to but through the lens of I hope I mattered there are so many different ways that you can matter and so many different people you can matter to and so many different capacities that you can matter in and that's a That, to me, feels like a truer way to live your life, right? Now, Hal failed many times and he did not ultimately make the right decisions in the primary time that we spent with him, right? This was a character who was very, very lost and very, very lonely.

And in that loneliness and isolation, further shot himself off from the path to progress. This is so much to, you know, so much to show about what do your parents teach you, what do you inherit from them, the path? what do you think you have to move toward all of it. And like, I hope I mattered is a way to live your life. And it is a thing to strive for. And it's really devastating to hear that line read when we look out and see that there are only three total people there. Well, but what's so great about that is like that Hal who wrote that I hope that mattered eulogy is the Hal who's still thinking about like all the luminaries will come to his funeral. Exactly.

And I like, Robin and I were talking about him and we both are. agree. And, you know, I think the show wants us to agree that it is sad for Hal who showed up to his funeral. But who showed up to his funeral. Carrie, who like genuinely loved him and John who genuinely loved him and Carol who generally loved him. You know, like those are three authentic connections that, you know, all the, you know, celebrity photos that are on the floor of his house, like, would not be able to convey. There is still a contrast, though, of the Martin funeral glimpses with, right, like the jets flying over and the crowds assembled and the back of his mom. on's head. Okay. Exactly. So we get, because it's fucking exhausting, let a rip. As far as you can go,

go on, that's a great arm kid, this line that will come up. Man, I love that. Again, at the end of the episode, very, uh, Mikey Brasado core, very the bear, letter rip. No question. Um, no question. Okay. So yeah, like, responsibility to make preparations, you know, the idea of the shotgun, the warning to John, you know, don't tell anyone you were here. The safe, the key, point A, point B. He was making preparations. Oh, exactly. Certainly. Do you. You think, I mean, just thinking about how going on Etsy and finding a bird keychain for John, what if, um, I don't think you can go to like, whatever the version of Ace is in, in Rushville, in Rushville and find a bird keychain. What if it was already there? You know, as you and Rob talked about

last pod, there are a lot of, a lot of chotchkes, a lot of little things in that house that, you know, I like the went-to-home goods once possibility that you guys floated, but the little, like, framed testimonial about hope is not something that now Jordan picked up at home good.

So what else was sitting around from whoever he's renting from? Maybe the bird keychain was one of those things. It's hard to say. He sourced that.

He definitely had to go get that poncho. We know that. He sourced that. We know that. I told you that poncho was important. That was great, wonderful stuff.

Okay. Do you think the reason? So one thing that Rob and I were wondering about I was really confused by last week was why this vault was so much bigger than the vault that was back in Hal's house that we saw in episode

two. And so like, you know, we were like, what's in it that's so big that you need, you know, a bigger box in the storage unit? So an option is you need a thing big enough for like Sanestro. Like if he's involved, we'll just go spiraling to theory corner about how Sinestro get on that planet and whether or not Howell's involved in that. whatever. Senester in, Senester out, like a, or is it like a trap for a Noah? Like, I can put a manhunter in here. Yeah. And then lock them up. Like, do you need to be able to fit a person?

Person, which the sort of like wall safe size version of the vault at home would not be able to do. Yeah, because the pocket dimension inside is ample. But as you guys noted, the entryway creates a just big enough for like John's arm and shoulder to like get in there. You know, if you're trying to shove a whole, you know, quarterback in there. You need more room, right? And I'll state one at that. For those thick thighs? Okay.

Oh, man. Yeah. Hold it. It's exhausting. The clutch of the ball at the end of the episode. The clutch of the ring. Geez, good stuff. On the interesting song choice front, you know, we talked about Queen already,

but the shift here is we cut, so the American flag transitions us to Martin's funeral and we get, don't think twice, it's all right. Not Dylan. We get a cover of it. This gave me instant chills, This is one of my favorite Dylan songs. It's one of my favorite songs ever.

I was thinking about you a lot. I just love this song. I had a real holy shit moment. But this is, I would say, definitely a non-traditional context for it. Because that is a very, that's a song about romance and lost romance and relationships. So obviously, that's a thing that shows and movies do is recontextualized songs. But it was just, boy, it really, really hit. And it gave me that, like, good feeling in my spine when the music.

It kicked in endless to see Young Hal fixing his tie. I was never taught how to tie a tie, but I think he's doing it incorrectly. Well, I mean. That's the thing is like I think he hasn't learned how to tie a tie. Because he's like he's doing it in like a knot like you would just tie a knot. Like what I know from watching movies is it's like a this and a fold around of the thing. You know, it's not like a tie it like that, which is what he does because he doesn't know how to tie a tie. Young kid figuring out on his own getting ready for his dad's funeral how to tie tie tie is great.

great instant shorthand for like did his dad have time to teach him that yet? We don't have time for her, so that's fine. The cover of Don't Think Twice is alright is by Melanie, who did Brand New Key, which is the song that Hal puts on at the bar. We also get a second Casey in the Sunshine needle drop inside of this episode. So to your point about sort of like these very neat and tidy echoes across the season, Outcast is back.

But like I like this idea that like perhaps Melanie like Martin Jordan was a real Melanie guy You know what I mean? And it's like we get this version of not that this is like playing at the funeral But like we get this version and like when he puts brand new key on later It's because like it's something that he listened to with his dad Maybe Casey and the Sunshine. I mean that's something that John puts on

But like maybe Casey in the Sunshine band was like something that he listened to with his dad Yeah. Because I'm like yeah because Hal's like that's my jam Yeah I love it. Little Hal looking down into the grave as And we know we're thinking about the Hallogram looking down in his own body and Martin and Hal in those coffins.

Also very like... And then we literally cut to the house. Perfect. Also very, uh, very Jack and John, you know, at the hatch.

Sort of like, anytime, honestly, someone's looking down into something. Literally anytime. I'm just like, oh,

it's Jack and John. Just some sort of open space or depth. Yeah. Um, but yeah, the way it's shot, uh,

where we pan down, we're expecting, well, we're primed for as people who have watched film and television is like, we're expecting that shot that you get

of like the shovel full of dirt that like goes on the camera. And we don't get that because then we just like go. It's this like cold cut to Hal across time where we left Hal at the end of last week's episode. And now we get to hear that, God damn it with that different context. And this is what I'm talking about in terms of like what these flashbacks are supposed to do. I like, I love that you brought out this word shame earlier because I do think that like when you watch lost, a lot of those flashbacks exist to like unearth a shame that that a character.

that we like and admire or don't like, cannot tell the people around them. Their secret shame and how it is fueling their decisions and stuff like that. And so to hear how last week, kind of hilariously go like, God damn it. Like it was like a funny kind of button,

the halogram at the end of last week's episode. Again, a sort of payoff of like the first time John interacts with him when he's like, am I dead? You know what I mean? Like here we go again. So there's like that humor of repetition to it. But like the goddamn it now. seeing himself in the in the coffin is I can't help but wonder like is not I'm dead but did it

finally get me did I kill myself did the thing that came for my dad and came from my grandpa come for me like and I lost the battle with with my own head like that's that's that's my read and again it's just like sort of the narrative uh the juicy delicious narrative feeling of getting a line again and understanding it differently this time is really impactful. We get the trainee interaction instead of junior.

I train you now your earth green lantern shit and this is where we get the reveal and we already mentioned it but he's corporeal. That's right. Lift just reaches. I mean obviously later when Carrie touches his cheek I'm just like how am I supposed to cope with this? This is like unbearable in the best possible way. But when he reached out and lifted John's arm

I was like, okay. He's coroll for you. Let's fucking go. He could do all sorts of stuff. What can't that Hallogram do? I mean, is he going to like show up in the nick of time and shove Billy into Earl's Open Ma?

You know, can he pick up wherever they've dropped that gun? Can Hal pick it up? Yeah. You know, like, that's right. He's got a lot of options. Dive down into the lake now that we know John can kind of project him. Also, because John can... Well, that gun has to come.

Right? I mean, oh, but, but, probably. Does it Bob as well as a red apple does? That's a good question. Would it even fire if it's been dropped in the water? I don't know. I don't know. Maybe you got to dry the powder. I'm not sure. You know, because John can take the ring off and the halogram continues to exist as we know. Helpfully, that means that the halogram and Carrie can fuck without John needing to just be right there activating the construct. That's useful.

I was thinking a lot about Anya and like two Xanders. Poor Carrie. She could have had two, Howells at one point. I thought about it too, now that I had that wonderful double Xander Anya moment as context. What a great episode of TV that was. Loved it. All right. So John claims he's trying to solve how his murder. Oh, yeah. So we get the corporeal, but also that's where we get the like so you can feel things.

Yes, I can feel things. And there's the kind of like, yeah, I can feel like, come on. Yeah, I can feel things. Right. He's, uh, but like, that's important. for us to understand that this digital imprint, this backup of house consciousness, and we see this in this episode,

he will learn, he will absorb information, and he will have an emotional capacity. Like, he's a digital print, so that's not quite the same as an actual person, obviously, but... But Kyle Tamela could be in the story for as long as we wanted him to... I know, it's so good. And just the differences in the performance, obviously the tone.

You miss the sultan pepper though. I do. Do you think his hair can salt pepper out? The hologram? Can the hologram age? That's a really great question. And can he change his outfit? He looks wonderful.

But could he put on the other jacket? Great question. Mine's want to know. Yeah. I mean, like, Rob and I were talking about you and I have talked about this where it's like, I want John Stewart to be the Green Lantern going forward in the DCU. Like that's not a question for me. but like and and you know we know he's going to show up in in the films we know that they are thinking of doing a second they want to do a second season it's it's been such a success that i can't imagine it doesn't get the forgive the phrase greenlight but like but also weird shit is happening at warner brothers that i like it's hard to predict what's going to happen right now um it might have nothing to do with the success of the show but um but i would want the halogram

In a Lantern season two. Now, whether or not Kyle Chandler wants to do that, I don't know. But, like, that's what I want. As a viewer. I mean, same, obviously. I think Aaron here is great. I love John Stewart. I think John and Hal is so much better than either of them alone.

They're just absolutely wonderful together. And that was obviously such a satisfying thing inside of this episode. You know, you mentioned that's the first time you've called me Hal a moment. But the smile on John's face in response to that, you know, the absolutely incredible in the science lab sequence to Carrie Howe conversation is the We were primarily thinking about Carrie and Hal on that sequence

but the like well what about John? What did Howe think about John? Like you know the big fan moment? Like the shift on John's face from like a football team. Come on the ringer. I know. Get on the pod. Let's go. Hot yet possibly evil sheriff Carrie who's constantly making football references. Speaks ringeries with ease.

John's face was like the big fan and just the way that he was when Hal praises him that that's incredible. And John's saying, like, he never complimented me. Like, what we get to watch, they are, they are existing in this space in this hour that we wanted to see them inhabit. And so the idea that that would be potentially ripped away from us, on the one hand, feels to me, like, kind of of a piece with part of the thesis of the show, which is, like,

these things don't stay in your life forever. I'm not ready to say goodbye. I think the more narratively mature thing is for me to say, yeah, it should be over at the end of this season. But I don't want it. I think that's, I don't want it. I think that's the more that there should be stakes to a death. Yeah. You know, I rail against this all the time that like if someone dies, it should matter and they should stay dead. You know what I mean? But if he's like, not only here, but also corporeal so like could fuck or eat or whatever he wants to do, then it's like that he's not really dead. And so then it's not even really that that big of a

swing. When you say eat. Yeah. All versions, whatever you need, baby. But, but here's the deal. here's the deal. What I do love about this episode and what they've done so well all season long is give us all of these ticking clocks. We have this much time to figure it out, right? So the ticking clock of we juiced up the ring,

we don't have a lantern to recharge the ring by. Is there a lantern on that planet? Let's get one. Why wasn't there one in the vault? Why wasn't it wrap? Yeah, I guess when they took the suit and they took the ring and the lanterns, but like, let's get it back. Yeah. Guy Gardner, can you do one more thing for us, please?

Like fire up that guy gardener signal and get him into town. So like the countdown on how much time we have with the halogram. I know. Because he probably has to go. Because, you know, as I mentioned to Rob when you and I had talked to Damon about the halogram and he mentioned the ghost cob. So like this idea that we're going to like lose Hal the halogram in that very like Patrick Swayze end of ghost, sorry for spoilers of the end of the ghost.

the ghost does not stay around forever. Like, that's going to be potentially very, very good. It will be. But then just bring them back for season two. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Make it non-corporial. Just like make it a cost.

I don't know. All right. We finally are here at the opening logo of the episode. I double-checked this opening logo. And it's, I don't think it's any yellower than it was in episode one. This is the question we have is like, is it going to get yellow and yellower? And every week I'm like, is this? yellower, but I went and looked back at episode one.

It's the same, same thing. I was in jail. I was in love. Okay, so before we used to the storage unit, John has a fraught combo with his brothers about needing $300,000 to buy off Maggie. Yeah. This is really here just so that the hallow Graham can like overhear this. Yes.

So that he could know that John was in Nebraska and like all this, all that sort of stuff. So like the Maggie blackmail plot line, I mean, we'll see if it like winds up mattering the finale. But like it's not really measuring. to the rest of the... Feels like a weaker plot, but it is a second ticking clock on the... And I like her hair. But it's a second like ticking clock on the plot.

Yes. Right. For sure. How I measure that time? That was pretty funny. Pretty slick. That was pretty good. I will say right before she said that,

poor Aaron Pierre, it's not his fault, but he was like instructed to like hold the watch into frame. And I was like... But he was just sort of like... Yeah. In frame. Yeah. I mean, you know, makes sense.

they've got their connection, handing the hander the watch. Yes, I agree. Mostly there so that Hallegram could eavesdrop. Also, though, you know, and you and Rob talked about this with episode six, even across that episode, this became apparent. But this question of just like, what is the limit of the rekindling that John has done with his, it's transactional, with his brothers, you know, with, obviously it seemed like there was more of a gap right away. Still with Aaron, but with Marcus, it feels conditional. Marcus was like much more his brother when he was like we you know the Stewart brothers are going to like have this big project now like him

him being pissed that John like for sure this big deal like yeah absolutely that's fine that's justifiable but like it does then put him closer to the like what can you do for me uh sort of transactional relationship yeah well and I think it also it tells us but it also tells John that there is still the voice of, like we're always thinking, John and Hal are, there are our protagonists, so we're primarily viewing every interaction

through the lens of what they are carrying. But there's also, like, the question of what is Marcus feeling? What is Aaron feeling? And there's that doubt for them, right? For Marcus, like you're saying, when Marcus says, you know, at the end of last episode, like, is that just a story you tell? Right? And this question then for us and for John of, like, being reminded

that there is a voice, there's a part of Marcus, that is like, how real is this desire to reconnect? How real is that? Even in this conversation when it's like, wait, did you? Oh, my brothers think it's possible that I killed Hal Jordan. What does that mean? Right?

What does that mean? Even for a second, people close to you in your life think that that's a thing you would have done, right? How can we not then think of how? Very Renier at Renier-Iquare. Yes. How can we not think of Hal in the cafe scene in episode six then saying like, you know, Oh, not only the, I'm not the only killer at this table, but like when he says to John, oh, is the thing that bothers you that your mom doesn't care about the killing? Right? It's all here and connected still. Can I tell you I just think one of the funniest moments this episode is when Bernadette is calling on the phone.

Is that your wife? No, not that. That is funny. Burnett calling on the phone and that's what makes John think about how. So now like when he sees Bernadette, he's thinking about. what were my mom and Hal up to when I was, when I was gone? Those are mostly Rob theories. Those are just asking questions. Those are just mostly Rob theories. And something I did, I'm pretty 89% sure I brought up in a previous episode when

you were talking about this is like this idea of like all good stories are love stories. Right? Yes. And like the hacks comp of just sort of like. You did. Yes. The older mentor and the younger trainee and just sort of like the way in which that story, even stories that are not a romantic love stories when they are love stories and they are about not only falling in love with each other.

So like Deborah Vance and Ava like falling in love with each other in the way that they do, which can be romantic if you choose to read it that way, but does not have to be romantic. And how falling in love with someone is related to falling in love with yourself, like believing that you are worthy of love. So like the way in which that's related to like, I was in love, right? Like I was worthy of love. Someone loved me. I fell in love with someone. Someone loved me back. I was vulnerable with them.

They still loved me. Like I told Carrie everything. I told Carrie about my dad and Carrie still loved me and looks at me like this. She might have killed me. But like looks at me like she loves me. You know, like nonetheless, like that's amazing. But that that hacks comp thinking about Jordan and Hal inside of this episode and the way in which they're like peeling back the layers for each other. finding out about each other, learning about each other.

And by the end of the episode, they're playing our song. You know what I mean? Like, that's a love story. And like, so for the Lindelofiness of this episode, again, every Lindelof story is a love story in its own way. And there are overt ways in which that is true. You know, like inside of Watchmen, you have like a beautiful love story. Inside of leftovers, of course, that is like ultimately one of those beautiful love story. of all time. And like inside of lost, you've got a bunch of minor ones. But I do think that like

Jack and John love story of like these two men who were on, who had such radically different points of view, but nonetheless, nonetheless corresponding daddy issues like and trauma. Yeah. Finding understanding and and like common cause with each other at the end of the day is like the most beautiful thing inside of that show. I really agree. man of science, man of faith, really where we start with John and Howe. And part of the joy of the journey is how we will,

how our thinking of those positions will change, but also how theirs will, right? And something like in this, you know, the arrival at the fortress. Incredible. Really good. So fucking good. You know, when John says,

look, this is the key we found on your dead body. Birds are like my thing. Hal knew that. He wanted me to find this to open the box. So just talk. There's conflict in this moment in real time. But like, we can think of that through Hal and John's eyes. John is able to identify.

Yeah, there's the like, we're doing true detective. We're solving a crime. This is a clue and indicator. I'm following the breadcromb aspect of it, right? There's logic. Yeah. But there is an emotional aspect. to John clocking that Hal knew this thing about him.

And it wasn't just, oh, when you were able to construct that bird and I was threatened by it, it stuck with me. There's like, I knew something about who you were, right? Even though there were parts of that that you didn't tell me. And like, I also just like just, it's a way in which he's chosen by Hal. Yeah. Oh, my, of course. The fact that the Jordan Boy's legacy, that the leaning into the beautiful part of like,

I choose to think of you not as a threat, the trainee who was going to usurp me, who was going to take away the thing that I held on to, but there's an embrace there. When it comes to like totems, you know what I mean? It's like the ring didn't choose him, right? Like the guardians chose him or whatever. But like, Hal chose him and is giving him this object.

And saying you're my successor. Like, I choose you. Yeah, exactly. And it's just like so beautiful. To shift to an embrace there. and maybe it's, there's a... Would have been too on the nose of the bird had been like on a green,

across and a blue background? Yeah, it needs to be for... It needs to be something everyone else could miss. Yeah. But like, yeah, see, I like the hackscom because it's like, I don't know if Ava found something, like, she found a pair of Adidas shorts and a note on it that said, like,

you can't only eat bread. She would know it was from Deborah. Yeah. You know? And that it could only have been from Deborah. Yeah. Because it was a thing that Deborah would know Eva would recognize.

And like, I just really, really loved that part of it. like the, you know, great arm kid and playing our song and all of those aspects. There's the Hal specific part of it to where he says on the boat, like, you said I gave you a key. Did you find this from the box? Like maybe it will lead me to my note where Hal is on his own journey too. Well, and like his fear of that. Yeah. Yes.

What's in there? What truth is in there? But like my note, like, yeah, this truth of like what happened to me, did I kill myself? Yeah. And the fact that. Did I succumb? We don't know the answer to that yet. But the fact.

that Hal is wondering what that truth is, and he is on that journey of discovery, self-discovery still. But like the fact that Hal, our primary Hal, whatever is waiting in there, no a manhunter's secrets or something deep and personal about Hal or all of the above, turns out as a poncho. Ponchos are useful.

We got them at the Oriole game. It's great. Also a planet. Mogo's a fucking planet. Wonderful stuff. The fact that he was... Did we get punches? We did. We got a bunch. We didn't put them on, but we had them for us there because of the rain. Yeah. Yeah. The fact that he's willing to show John whatever that truth is, you know? And like especially because we got the like, did I, was I open with you? Did I open up to you? Did I tell you about my dad moment between the Hallogram and Carrie? And we know not just because of that exchange, but everything we've seen about Hal who's so withholding and guarded what it means for him to show a piece of himself to somebody, like to make that choice. Not only to say to John, I no longer I'm thinking of you just as a person who was trying to.

take from me the thing that I needed to understand who I am, that I clutched the My Precious, you know, ring comp that you guys were talking about last week. But to say also, like, you're worthy of this, too, is just like a really lovely journey for those characters to be on together. It's great. We get the charades bit. Very good. Yeah.

I think it's a bad fucking idea, shocking take from the guy who probably murdered me, absolutely killed me. That was really funny. Listen, you ignorant copy of an ignorant asshole. singers in this structure. This was super funny. A little less than an hour of talk time left on the ring, so let's not like, you know, let's not waste it.

You know you're even worse dead was also very good. Really, really great. And this was where you mentioned that I was in jail. Yeah, I was in love, yes. And like, what Kyle Chandler is doing with his face and with his voice and the quieting, gentling dip? I think, I do think, who.

Aaron Pierre is tremendous in this episode, especially, like the fear flashback sequence. I thought, you know, I love a feroxin. Where's my guy? Crane? I don't know. But I do think that the way that Kyle Chalner says, I was in jail, I was in love. Oh, man.

And the way that Kelly McDonnell performs, you're real. Or just even her face when we see her face when she hears his voice for the first time. Yeah. Is just some knockout stuff. Yeah. And then Jason Britter when he's like, I'll bring the dip. Those three. Just.

Top dear acting. Kelle McAllen's face in that science scene, it reminded me of, I mean, this is a sincere compliment. You know, in the Daredevil opening, the way that the statues crumbled, just the crumbling of her face as all of those emotions

are playing. It was really, really hard-election. Real Boardwalk Empire. There's something, oh, my God. I love Boardwalk. The, oh, Charlie Cox. It really does all connected to Daredevil. I was thinking about her reaction

around Charlie Cox and Bored Walk in this episode. Dude, talk about a shredding, heart-wrenching moment. My God. And also a what's in the box moment. Spoilers. Spoilers. Stuff.

Really bad. All right. The local radio crackles through some country and Bible music. Yeah. This is classic. I'm driving somewhere and I can't get anything good on the radio, including we get a reference to John 1613. Our listener Kat wrote in to let us know that John 1613 reads Vesley.

But when he, the spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own. He will speak only what he hears. And he will tell you what is yet to come. Kat says, then the hologram reappear soon thereafter. I thought that was a nice touch on what he could be able to offer. Also, I really like that. It's interesting, too, that this is when Bernadette calls.

Because it did make me think just on the, like, making preparations front. and the fact that Hal and Bernadette were in touch just like what might Bernadette know? What information is it possible that she's in possession of? Obviously we've, you know, we see all the voicemails like last episode and everything. We know that John Sr. has escaped from the care facility. All of that is going on.

But Bernadette led John to Rushville. She did, right? What other, is it possible that she has something to reveal to John still that can help him in the finale? I found myself wondering about that. How long is this finale? I know. So Hal shows up.

John's like, I made you go away. Like, I didn't summon you, right? And this is where he gets to like summon. I'm not your genie sort of lamp stuff go moment. But I love, I do really love this trope, this comedic haunting trope. You know, again, in Ghost, Whoopi Goldberg won an Oscar being annoyed that a ghost would not leave her alone. One of my TV shows all times, slings and arrows has. has this like, it's even better because in this version, everyone else can see the halogram.

But I think it's even better when like you can't see the ghost and then like people think you're crazy because you're talking to yourself. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that's like always sort of hits with me. But anyway, this just sort of like, leave me alone energy from John. But then Hal being like, you don't really want me gone. If I'm here, it's because you're thinking of me. And honestly, who can blame him?

To that I say, honestly, who can blame him? Who would not be thinking about Hal Jordan? They go to the sheriff to the hot yet possibly evil sheriff's department. Yeah. Guess what? Whole town is closed again on Manhunter business. Last time it was town hall for Zoe protection. Now it's everyone's at the hat ceremony.

Obviously very worrying on the Manhunter front. Also though, sign saying we're closed football. Like could not be more FNL. Could not be more Friday Night. So that was also very great. All right. Then we get the like sort of the memorial for the Battle of Rushville. We get the conversation about her.

name was Zoe. Talking about Manhunter's being deceptive, manipulative on the gut front. So he's wrong about the sort of like, I killed her

and that's why you hate me. But he does immediately say looks like I'm not the only person who filled for a Rushville girl. Like he gets that one right away. So the gut is like 50-50 maybe? I still say 70-30.

Okay. I still say 70-30. I don't know. There was one left. Her name was Zoe. There was one left. I don't. heard with blaring sirens.

Sure. Yeah. Only one. Definitely. Uh-huh. Yeah. One of my only notes on this episode was that it felt like the Hallogram knew more about Manhunters than R. Hal did when he went on a fact-finding mission to Sinestro. I bumped on that just a tiny, tiny, tiny bit. I think when he went to go to the fact-finding mission from Sinestro, he wasn't like, what's a manhunter at all. Yeah.

But he was like, tell me all about the Manhunter's. This seems just sort of like the Manhunters are extinct. Yeah. Right? Which is just sort of like I know they exist. Manh hunters are very deceptive, very manipulative. Oh yeah. I guess that's true.

I don't know. I like there's a tiny tiny time. But I totally buy that how he doesn't know about this. Here's an excuse to go see Sinestro. Oh my guy. Like that makes sense. My guy. Because I don't know how to work through my shit.

If I could close down a town for Sinestro, I would. All right. Oh, man. Listen, I don't know what happened after Jordan last updated me, but I don't kill. Not even a man. Hunter, whatever he did to these people that died, whatever I am, I'm not him.

So we'll help find out in the finale maybe via Sinestro what happened to him in 2006 and 2016 to change him so dramatically. There's a couple options here in the finale when like John knows what happened with Sanestro. So Sanestro can't let it John.

But like Hal doesn't know yet about the Sanestro coup. So like there is a potential again, how long is a finale? But there is a potential for Sinestro to tell John, like, I'm on your side. Like, you know what I mean? Yes, it feels like that will be.

And what, I mean, what if it comes, again, this is just me. I haven't seen the finale. I don't know. If it comes down between how believing John and believing Sinestro and he chooses to believe John, that would be like a really beautiful moment. Yeah. I was interested that because, right, I mean, we have the reinforcement here. I don't know what happened after Jordan last.

updated me, which we knew we understood, but felt like it was clarified for kind of a reason. Like, he's not been absorbing all of this information about what's happening in Rushville, but also the Sanestro stuff. I did have a moment at the very end where I was like, why isn't Hal like, oh, Sanestro then, you know, when they, like, look down and see him at the end. It didn't seem like he was, like, surprised to find him cloaked on this apocalyptic hellscape. I think I'd have to rewatch, like, how much time he had to, like, look at him. Literally looked for, like half a second at his face. And then he was like, great arm kid. But I would have been like, Sennacher is that you? By the way, great arm kid. Dad? I was like,

Pink Dad? Is he not surprised to see him there? That's interesting. Pink Dad's here? Maybe he doesn't recognize him. It's been 20 years. It's, I mean, and he, and, you know, he had his version of the poncho on. He did. He was like, it was very Spike Season 4. Season 4. Yeah. Totally. It was 100% Spike season four core. Incredible. It's the exact same brown blanket that Spike would wear. I'm so right. Absolutely.

I found the I'm not him line, like hit really hard. Obviously, just a smart ass. Not only does the Hallogram allow us to still spend time with Hal and Kyle Chandler, but it's just like a great way. And we feel those differences so keenly as we've been talking about from the first, you know, the first episode. But like, Hal did a past judgment on himself? It's very Loki.

Oh, yeah, for sure. Just sort of like we get to redo the character arc. You know what I mean? Yes. Absolutely. All right, they see Guy Gardner's signal right next to the Battle of Rushville Memorial. I agree with what John said earlier is very tacky, the proximity. How let's talk about why the ring chose guy over John.

I still remain baffled as why the ring chose guy. Really, a lot of questions. You didn't get to talk about this. Tell me about your experience having guy inside of this world. You know, I just was delighted by it. I thought I thought I was. Yeah, I had been similarly, maybe not quite as concerned as you, but I was a little bit concerned about the tonal mashup and whether it would mesh.

But I thought the, you know, the tight pants and the goofy hair and all that, those contrast played actually. Yeah. Kind of heightened what we were going for. You know, and the multiple mentions in this exchange between Hal and John of, like, Goldtooth could not possibly come up more often than it does, et cetera. Oh, because you're like a gym teacher. No, because like he's an asshole.

Yeah. I'm paraphrasing. That's not exactly how well. But that was just great. It was great. And then John gets to sing some outcast to try to drown. That's right. Hal out.

Spotty Adi Dobellicious. Not the same outcast song he sang with his brothers, but just sort of like a link to his past. So they pull up to the hat ceremony. We've already talked about this Maggie interaction. But she does say this thing about it being the biggest thing to happen in this town since you and your pal. Yeah. I think that's credible and believable that in a small town, a huge football star, like, would have that hold on the town. But also it works as Noah has the whole town in his thrall as potentially

mini-manhunter. It works both ways. I have, I mean, even, and I say this is love because I don't think Chris Ryan is like a huge theorizer. But even like when I was on the watch last week and I asked Chris Ryan who we thought did it, he was like, oh, the quarterback kid. Like, you know what mean? Everyone's on Noah watch. Everyone's on Baby Manhunter watch. Like everyone's on it. At the same time inside of the script there are a couple things that are sort of like cover for that one is sort of like maggie saying this is the biggest thing that happened to our town and then noah saying this isn't about me right we all need a reason to celebrate so like inside of the like let's try to hide the ball on baby manhunter noah have they done a great job i don't know how hard they're trying right frankly

at the end of the day you know but that's there to say like uh to know for no way to give a reason why everyone would close downtown to be at one kid's hat ceremony it's like it's like it's not because I am a specially seductive alien from outer space and this entire town wants to fuck me. It's because we need something to uplift us because we're depressed and we forgot to rebuild. And we're just sort of like, you know, FEMA did what a little it could do, you know, sort of help us. After no one's letter. As you guys said, like the interest in politics and declaration of a desire to be president. Not worrying at all.

Similarly, so now this is fall. It's football season. And so this is not actually the February national signing day, but there's an earlier period you can you can you can commit a number of different times. The hat ceremony, this is a big thing in college football recruiting. And I just want to say I want to comment on one of the hats, which my real like antenna went up. But I like didn't bother, honestly, I didn't bother to freeze Fray Mahoney the hats because I was like, this won't mean anything to me. And Molly will come through. So.

And I'm like, I'll bring the gas me, but you also brought the gasby. So what am I even doing here? There's a running back years ago who committed to Georgia Isaiah Kroll. And he announced not with a Georgia hat, but with an actual bulldog puppy. And that's a hard one to top in terms of the bar that that's set. But I would like to say that I'm relieved that Noah only went with hats given the hats. Now, I couldn't quite tell. I was looking at color.

I think maybe the fourth in the distant based on the exact kind of shade. And I was like, oh, is that Minnesota? For sure we saw a Michigan hat. And for sure we saw a Nebraska hat. Navy. And folks we saw a Navy hat, which I was concerned by. Because mini Manhunter wanting to go to Annapolis and gain access potentially to the naval arsenal. Yeah.

Gave me serious fucking pause. And we lingered on that Navy hat. Like that felt super, super deliberate it. And then I was like, why is no one not making his choice? What? Why? What needs to happen at the game? Because everyone, almost like, oh, he wants to have the game because everybody needs to be at the game.

But as you noted, everyone's already at the ceremony. The other team is it because he still needs the recruiters to be there. The recruiters who are trying to get him to commit. Now, we're in the last fucking episode. I don't know that they have time to introduce somebody from the Naval Academy. But we do have this whole thread of like John's on the line with the colonel. There's like a little bit of a military thing in the background of this show so far. that has, it's not top of my theory corner brain, but it's there.

That's interesting. That is interesting. I was thinking it's because he like, he's like, there's still a green lantern here in town. Yeah. And I haven't like neutralize the local threat yet. Probably just that. Probably just that. I like.

Got to bring him a suit. Check in on the house. Is the shotgun still there? What's up with Earl? Okay, I'll play the game. I'll buy my time. Could also just be folks that the Navy hat was there to explain how Noah who could not throw a ball through a tire when he was a kid has become an Allstate quarterback.

He's a dual threat quarterback. He's a running quarterback. Now it all makes sense to me. Okay. So that was helpful. Why? Navy famous for deploying option techniques in their offense. So if you're if you're playing quarterback at Navy, you're you're a run first quarterback. Everyone wants him to pick Nebraska. Yeah, they want him to stay home. Yeah. Hasker's. Skers. Didn't like skers. Didn't like You didn't skers. Do people not say? No, I know. But like, do people not say that? It's, it was fine, but I was like, we're trying too hard. Not on the show.

But in the, on how? Do you think that like, do people say skers? I guess. Yeah, sure. They say Huskers much more often, I think, that they say scars. I don't feel equipped to comment. I'm not from Nebraska. I don't know if this is like.

Two of the co-creators are. But I don't know if this is like when people say frisco inside of movies and I'm like, you're not from here. Yeah. Well, like when the Orioles... You're not from around here. When the Orioles came out with their new city connection and said, B-more, a lot of people were like, there's no way people from Baltimore say B-Mor.

and I was like actually like they do. Like I saw that and I was like, this is, these are great. Okay. But I could see how other people would think it was. I would have gone with Huskers, scurs, certainly acceptable. It's fine. All right, Billy. I liked the make and love to football sign in the audience, by the way.

Incredible. Also all of the all of the assembled who were like, Noah be my boyfriend, Noah be my fiance, no one marry me, but making love to football was pretty funny. I think that like, we talked about this. Rob and I talked about this last week, this like throw, sort of like in the background throwaway line. where he's like mentioning the name of all these girls and so it's like how many of these girls has Noah fucked all of them possibly um

there were more people there than I thought there would be by the way oh left in the town yeah only a hundred people coming to Carrie's house though I mean I hope I hope Billy made enough dip um oh god billy in his dip what's that mean he's with you Carrie's like give me a fucking break uh okay then we get the the science lab conversation, the you're real moment, right? First, we get John on the phone sort of trying to hush, like, so that Carrie doesn't overhear him with drawing $315,000, an extra $15,000. And I think this is smart. He's drawing $300,000 for Maggie and then an extra $15K for incidentals. Who knows? You never know what you're going to need. Yeah. I got to say, I, more raw meat for Earl. I mean, yeah, bison is a cheap. It can't be cheap, right? The Manhunters have some of John's DNA and now this bank has his

voice print. I've got concerns. It seemed like a bit fishy, did it not? My fishing scam sensors went off there for sure. Something seemed off about that. On the one hand, yes, but on the other hand, maybe not because so much of John's relationship with like that whole plotline has just been

conducted via phone call. So I wouldn't just say it over the phone if it were me. But Like, narratively, he did send his brothers to the bank. He did. So it's like something that he has been like, has him play. You know what I mean? Yeah.

All right. We at this science lab scene. I mean, I think it's so beautiful. We've already talked about a lot of this. Here's one part that I really loved. The ever-charming, ever-swab, Hal Jordan becomes a stammering mess in front of Carrie, right? Trini's right. I'm not your him.

I'm not your Hal. I mean, I would have been, but I'm, I guess, well, and what it used to be. I just wanted to meet you. That's all. We were close. Dude. I mean, I would have been destroyed me. Dextroid me.

I read a germany fan fiction about this, by the way. This is a classic fan fiction plot, by the way. Alternate version of you meets the one who got away. Or like you or the person that you love has like forgotten you. And you have all these memories of your time together with them and they have no memory of you. And then they have to like, this is. not only a classic fan fiction plot, it's kind of like a classic romance novel plot, but it's just sort of like the amnesia plot of just sort of like, I, you meet someone,

they have all this history with you, and you're just sort of like, who was I with this person? And so for how to be like, who were we? I mean, I want the Hallogram to hear the Buttercup voice note. Like I want him to know that he was just like getting pizzas and snuggling under Blacon and watching the scurs. The scour. Sheriff Kerry. the scares. Maybe that's why she started calling him text, even though he's canonically from the DC version of San Francisco. I lost my mind about this. Okay. Text versus buttercup. Like, Tex and Buttercup forever. Love it.

Wait, let's assign them to each of us. Are you texts or Buttercup? Oh, you're text. And your buttercup? Yeah, clearly. It's canon. But like, text is such a good name for him. But I'm like, let's not underline the fact that he's got this bizarre accent that has nothing to do with where he's nor did young Hal have it. You know what I mean? Like, let's not put too fine a point on it. You know what I mean? Coach Taylor is an escapable and frankly I'm okay with it. You know, something, so I did a Q&A with some of the Friday Lights cast

when they were doing this sort of like road show thing earlier this year. And something that Adrian Palicki said on that panel was that Kyle Taylor and Connie Britton used to meet for like breakfast every day on this one like place in South Congress and talk about their characters. Like that they would just like go over their characters. at breakfast every morning. I just love knowing this. I love knowing it too, but in an interview,

well, Monday and Tom King talked about this on the official pod. I think Kelly McDonald's has something similar in Collider, but just sort of like the work that Kyle Chandler does to seem so effortless. Yeah. And the work that he did and Kelly McDonald was like sort of calling out this scene in particular where she was just sort of like, I was preparing myself for like how I had to like, convince myself that this is not the same guy.

She's like, but then I walked in and Kyle had like done all this work that like it was so clearly not the same. Yeah. Hal Jordan, not just because of the hair die, but just sort of like character wise, eyes wise, face wise. Like this was just a different guide. It felt like a different guide to me. And like that's just like Kyle Chandler is so just like we compliment him all the time.

Very handsome. All the things that you're thinking of right now. All the things that you want to say. Like a great guy. like all this sort of stuff like that. But I think he works tremendously hard. He's just so good. To look like he can just do it in his sleep.

Yeah. You know? Yes. Absolutely. I think that the, you know, they talked a lot in the official pod and just in general about. And we can feel it so keenly watching the episode. The hal, our primary howl, that this halogram is not yet as cynical and jaded. Those were the words that they were using.

And that's true. We could feel actually that the cynicism emerging, even just right here when he goes into theory corner, he's like on watch. He's like, you kill me. You kill me. Yeah, like you're paranoid. He's like, oh, your brain is like, has a bullet in it. Yeah. And like, I think being murdered, like allows for some paranoid. Like, that was all so good the way that we can feel this Hal while different and not in the dark place are how wound up in. Well, it's still the same person. Yes. And you can see him getting there. But there's like a couple things that I want to say about this. One is like the way in which this Hal, Halogram, 2006 Hal, is so much better at being John's mentor. And so much more open in so much.

many ways. But then like we have to give 2026 Hal the credit of like for sure being the one to tell Carrie about his dad, which is something 2006 Hal can't even conceive of. And leaving the key for John and and inviting him, inviting him to be a part of this, a partner from beyond the grave. But that damage that's done to to the older Hal from like the senestra betrayal. Yeah. Yeah. So here we have this 2006 Hal sees himself in a coffin. And there's a couple things going on. There's like, somebody betrayed me. Was it my trainee, John? Was it this hot sheriff,

Carrie? Like, who betrayed me? So that's sort of like, I've been betrayed, like batten down the hatches, like put your armor up sort of response. But the fact that like all of that fear-based response is really a reaction to the shame question, which is, did I do this to myself? Am I the person who betrayed me at the end of the day? Guess what the show is so good? It's fucking great.

It's great. I thought the ability in this. this particular sequence. I'm not your him. I'm not your hal. I mean, I would have been, but I'm, I guess I'm what he used to be. The gentleness, the kind of longing, the hope of like, oh, a version of me found this with somebody, the tenderness, the sexiness, obviously. Pretty romantic, huh? Pretty romantic, huh? Like, Carrie's response, this is a great carry episode. Carey's response to that was amazing. This is also, though, where his face changes because the suspicion mounts. So the fact that he is conveying all of that, and then we're watching,

everything playing out on Carrie's face as well. Like that right there, on what he used to be, that seemed to me to be where he came to some sort of deduction. Like he's watching her. He's gauging something. And his face changed a little bit.

Like before we even get to the very end where she's like, I'll go with you that you already mentioned, which was like, we're not even being subtle about it. She's like very afraid of something clearly. She's like, come to my house, hide so that no one sees you,

but stay there. And then we'll all go together. Make sure my son who is a manhunter and by the way I told you about that doesn't see you there. Also Jason Ritter who was on the official podcast doesn't see you there.

He finished making the dip by then. It's just cooking in the crock pot. The fact that did Philly, by the way, was like, with? Yeah. She's like, he's with me. With? Yeah.

She's like, come the fuck on. That was just so good. It was very jealousy. Really great. But so Carrie here when Hal says, and I was open, I was open with you

and she says we told each other everything. The look on her face. there. I mean, wiping away the tears, that question that we already mentioned of like, well, what did she tell hell that maybe she came to regret telling him because he would have led to. We told each other everything giant sirens blaring in my head of like she told about Noah and that's what led to his death, like all of that. But also just like what's lost. Yeah. And this, and to stare into, again, to stare at to the face that you have like loved and been so vulnerable to.

And as far as you know, like, you know, Carrie when we meet. her with her like mini bangs fresh from Gotham like did not strike me as someone who was like had had opened herself to like some great love certainly didn't have with Billy. Has this. Or with her hairdresser? Wow. Really

tough. Shots fired at the wigs. With her son has some sort of version of that but it's like almost programmed into her and it's its own thing. But like so maybe this like this is the first great love of her life that she only got a little bit of time with and to stare into the face of him. and he doesn't remember any of it

because he's not that guy. Would you say that this is a show about how we're programmed and then the little thing that we can finally find for ourselves before it is ripped away? Really tough. Boy.

To listen to the official pod being like, John was programmed just like the Manhunter's a program. I'm like tough. Tough to hear it. We talked about my father and she nods, how he died

and she nods. So there's, again, functioning in multiple ways, very deft, like that's a test, right? Yeah. Where were we really? what did we have? But then, yeah, to your point, like what that tells us,

because we know how shielded Hal has been, like, what it means. Well, we won't know. And we won't fully know until the end of the episode, which, again, is like what rewards a rewatch for this show? It's like, you know, we've gotten these hints and we can sort of extrapolate some things here, but then we get the full truth of it at the end of the episode. And so when you rewatch that scene with the full part of that knowledge and the full Kyle Chandler performance of what that,

did to them and how hard it is for him to share that with John. Yes. And then Carrie, too, because maybe she, leading contender still, she revealed that Noah was a manhunter, Hal's like, I do love you, Buttercup, but I've got to get back to work. A man's responsibility is to make preparations, right? And then Carrie is confronting the guilt and horror of maybe what Noah or Billy did. But there's also, in this moment in particular, right, we talked about my father, how he died, that she knows this thing. And so it if she finds Hal's dead body, she's going to be wondering if Hal killed himself.

How could she not be wondering that? Unless she watched Noah shoot him in the head. Or Bailey shoot him in the head. If the gun isn't there, you know. But if the gun is there, I don't know. Okay. I ever teach you about Einstein, Rose, and Bridges? Hal and John walk back into the storage unit.

And I say, hey, look, it's a metaphor for Hal's intimacy issues. What if I wasn't trying to keep people out? I was trying to keep something in. That was amazing. We had to go right from using football as a comp for their relationship. Like, you like see out at you on the TV, but you know, big fan into keep them out or keep them in. Like, what am I willing to show?

Somebody was just really like the show in miniature. Sometimes it's just easier to fly away than stay on Earth. You know what I mean? Yeah. All right, paper bag and backpack containing a canteen, a canteen, a poncho, protein bars, a gun, and oh yeah, a portal to another planet. Point A and point B. You know, we just saw a coyote versus Acme

very reminiscent of like that visually. That was great. It's weird to me that John's like, what the hell is this when he already went through one earlier in the season, right? For his interview? Yeah, he fell through that. Yeah.

I guess. To get into the derelict mall. So when he's like, what the hell? I'm like, you literally. That did just sort of open. And he was like, you know, we leap of faith. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, this is a different planet. It's like a bigger situation, but it's not like, what is this? this because you've already been through it. He has been through a magical tunnel portal. You're right. But he's also the character who mere moments before in the car ride over when Hal was like, she definitely killed me. You know, I know guilt when I see it. And John said, do you know love when you see it? So we're always, we're always thinking, can you recognize the thing right in front of you

and including a portal that you have traveled through a version of? You know what? You're good at what you do. Oh, my God. Stranger Things fans rejoice. Yeah. The Einstein Rosen Bridge gets a mention or MCU fans. If you think about the bifrost, that's fine too. No labored explanation of you is slinky or paper plate. We just said it. Moved on with our day. Yeah. How space? Space is fine. Something to think that. Something to learn. All right. Oh, man. You told me two things. Jack and shit. Pretty funny. Comes back really quickly thereafter. It's another planet. Air seems

breathable trainee. And then we get a satisfying answer here. Why the fear toxin impacts John, but not how. Of course, technically, I'm not sure if I am breathing. Yes. I was glad that he said that right away because I was like, wait, you're a hologram. How would you know if it's breathable? It's pronounced halogram. Hallogram has been so useful as a, he really helped us. I mean, I did start, I wrote in our notes. I'm going to stop doing the Ogram and just called him Hal, but it's helpful to distinguish. Yeah, I did hallogram pretty much throughout with the occasional lapse into Hal. That's helpful. I got lazy though. So, um, Hal. Collin Carey, the hot, pot, possibly evil sheriff, which you've already mentioned.

Great stuff. This is a question kind of in general with Hal after prison, going back to Rushville, writing carry the letters, all of it. I think that the most emotionally rewarding version of this is that Hal has been in love with this person the whole time, which was the parent in the 2016 timeline, right? Minute one. He wanted to fuck this person and the yearning tendrils were there. Yeah. Okay. But as we talked about a lot in episode five in particular, there's this aspect of the relationship between John and Carrie, Hal and Carrie, where it's like, wait, you were withholding, you were lying, you were covering. So to go back and be like, I want to be together, great, but also like shortly some part of the relationship was, and what else did you keep for me or why did you keep those things in the first place? What are the other layers here? Oh, by the way, is your son a Manhunter? That gut, it depends, it depends how high that percentage is on that gut, you know? Indeed. I'm still saying 7030. you are. So 30's like, oh, you could be wrong a lot if it's 70, 30. But yeah. So and like, I don't think that Howl went back just to keep true detecting. I think, but I think that like

what we've heard about. I don't think he can help himself. Exactly. I think what we, and that connects then to like what Zoe said, right, about like, you know, the conversation in episode five between Zoe and John about, like, when does your nature just take over? And so you do make progress and you do how has to be a character who find who is in a place where he wants to connect to someone that feels i would say like essential in this show yeah but that doesn't it's not mutually exclusive from the other the investigating and like the idea that howl who has lost the ring and the the mantle of green lantern has to learn to live his life without it is like growth and progress of a different sort the idea that he would just stop thinking about that mission or that quote responsibility like doesn't really feel true

to the character. But it's almost one of those like, well, I mean, listen, I don't want Manhunter Noah to be president of the United States. Like, it certainly doesn't seem great to me. But then there's a part of you where you're like, what if you could have just turned it off? Because you've just turned off that true detecting and then had you're happily ever after with Carrie. I know. You know, well, and like, what is there any chance that Noah, you know, because there was that moment with John and Noah in episode six when he brings him the suit, you know, in the conversation about like, but you're happy now?

Like, you know, I wanted, like, I want you to, John's counsel to Noah about, like, the idea of being able to have, like, a maybe an easier or a better or different time. Like, how much of what Zoe programmed into Noah? Oh, 100%. Right. Is there a potential de-escalation? Like, let's say Billy did it. Let's say Jason Ritter did it. And Noah innocent.

Can this young manhunter, like, find a different path? Can he just go put in a few years with the scurs? or maybe at Michigan, don't let Noah go to the naval again. I do think we have to just not let Noah. And just like have sex with every girl on campus or guy, whatever you prefer, no. But like, and both, why not both?

But like, I think that like, it feels like there has to be some sort de-escalation possibility. Yeah. Or a teenager's going to be eaten by a carnivorous plant. One of the two. I'm actually leaning more towards Jason Ritter going in the plant at this point. That would be great. But I did like the idea of Earl eating him

and then spitting out the crystal heart. You know what I mean? That would be amazing. That would be amazing. He could instead just spit out some buffalo dip that Billy's still digesting. All right. Cooked meat not part of Earl's diet.

So you'd have to get rid of that. The Harry Potter references have been coming Fast and Furious all season. But what in the half blood prince is this? I mean, Malar Rubin. Yeah. So, you know, you mentioned Gatsby.

And I think in general, I love the born-backed Ciselessly into the pass line, the end of Gatsby that you already quoted. Obviously, just when you, when we actually reach the island in the center of the lake, the light in the middle of that mechanical. Be on boats against the current. But yeah, the light

in the... The light on the island looks very like... Very green light across the dock. Yeah, 100%. And like what you're striving for and thinking of and longing for. It's more blue and color. But like...

It ended up not being green, but it looked green at first. I agree. It was 100%. I was like, Gatsby. Daisy light. Then... Her voice sounds like money, guys. It's the American Dream. By the way, what do we think that is in the middle?

Could that be a spaceship? The thing that they sail toward? There's like a seat. There's some glass. Or a lab? It looked like like smokestack, you know, mechanical infrastructure. But I was like, could that be a spaceship? Yeah, maybe a lab.

So that's interesting. But yeah. Could one forge a lantern there? Could there be a lantern there? Is Peter Dingledge there? I mean... The handle. He needs me.

He needs the He needs the lightning cable USBC version is yawful Boy I went so quickly from Gatsby to half-blood prints So I think probably many people watching this Had that exact same experience I honestly would have blood first

And then I got to Gatsby Once we were sailing across a poison lake I was like looking for the infari over the edge bobbing apples instead, but ghosts of, you know, courts of a form? You know, they said the official, Tom King, I think, said in a sort of throwaway that it was like a poltergeist reference, which it definitely is. It's definitely also a blood prince. I mean, I would be so, I would not be surprised if someone had to like drink something until it was gone once they got to the center of the island. That's the thing. Like the potion and the fear and the idea of your trauma and the mistake.

of your past and what we watch with Dumbledore and a young trainee and a mentor and like all the sort of stuff like that like I was also thinking a lot definitely like all that sort of stuff it's inescapable yes it's just as they said like salt and see on the inside the episode and you know poisoned sure sure this was like fear toxin and your own trauma rooting to try to thwart you from reaching some sort of goal. It was jewelry-based goal, perhaps. Yeah. Yeah.

I, uh... If Sinestro had walked out with a locket, I wouldn't have been shocked. R.A.B? R.B. R&B. R&B. What are you putting on the locket? Yeah.

The cloak may be engraved with R.A.B. I was also thinking a lot about Dr. Hu. Like, this is a very Dr. Who sort of opening of an episode of Dr. Who were, like, the doctor and his companion land on a planet and something is, happened. There's a mystery. And like maybe everyone's dead. Sometimes that that's what's happened. And they have to figure out what happened there. Right. You know, so for like when John finds this like pile of ash and there's a skull in there. Man. That's like so classic. Who to me, there's like literally an episode where everyone's like fertilizer. You know what I mean? Like, um, so like what happened here on this planet, uh, that we've arrived on?

We had to true detect our way through this. The way that Anton's like memory implantation comes back. for John here. The way that he's like, I didn't understand that the city was in the sky. That was such a cool, fantastical imagery. I thought it looked so cool.

I didn't understand what they were like jumping down from. Hal can't remember if he's been there before all these planets. They blend together. Tasted too many pleasures

in the galaxy, huh? You know? Hazard of the occupation. That gave me a little chill though when John was like, like weird, it feels like I have. And this just all connected

very satisfyingly. This was good. It was really good, but I, like, before he was like, oh, Anton's memories, I had a real, like, has John been like kidnapped and brainwashed and been, you know, like, been intergalactic traveling last 10 years and didn't know it or something like that? And then they're like, no, dummy, it's the thing from early of the season. Got it. Okay. I was in the city and there was this gas and when they breed the gas, they got so fucking stairs. They scared.

They were terrified. They started killing each other and themselves. I just didn't know the city was in the sky. I didn't understand what they were jumping off. now I do so good and then for us to go from that description to the like

you know conversations they're having in the boat and then how this appears in a way that like we're used to the hallow grim disappearing but it's actually like John has disappeared from reality and then the like then we get the apple the first apple and then all the apples John senior young John

we can say this for three corner at the end if that's a better place to do it. But what is your current read on like, so obviously we just, we come to understand from what John says and connecting to the Anton memory from episode two, as you noted, like, the fear gas. Seriously, Dr. Jonathan Crane. Scarecrow come on in. Yeah.

The yellow. Rasmus. So, like, okay, I went, I started really going like, wait, is what? what we understand about Zoe and The Manhunter. We know that the relationship between the Manhunter and Anton was real, but I was like, was the Sinestro? It's a parallel. But my follow question is how much time do we have in the finale to just be like, and everything

we knew about Manhunter's is wrong and everything we knew about Anton was wrong and everything and Sinestro was behind it all along. I think because of that, so a couple things. And also who killed Hal? And then like also how did Senester get there? And who broke Sinestro out of prison? And how many sex flashbacks can we get? And what?

How was Leanna involved? and like what, you know, what does Bernadette know? Like, there's just so much stuff. And what does Billy Macon's dip taste like? And that's among the more important questions. And so there are a lot of them. That's high up on the list. Okay, so Senesra, when we find him at the end of this is like,

get me off this dead God-forsaken planet. I didn't get, I have chosen this as my base vibes. Well, so that's why I was like, did Hal put him there? Yeah, or did Noah? So thank you so much because, you know, I really felt like Rob scoffed off my theory that Noah might have been involved in this. But like, yeah, did Noah put him on the planet? Yeah.

Someone has, it seems, maybe stashed Sinestra. And Hal found the bridge in a bag. In a bag. In the back of Noah's closet or something like that. Because Hal's like, I know something about looking around the back of closet somewhere. It's because of his grandpa. Yeah. It all can access as you know that.

It's not Playboys under Noah's bed because he doesn't need it because he's just having sex all the time. He's getting laid constantly. It's just a bag of a portal to a poison planet where a master evil villain is. No one could have broken Sinestro out, still not ready to totally retire the Leanna theory. Obviously, that's in the mix. Hal for sure, possible. Well, how did Hal do it?

Because it could happen when he was in prison. Did Hal have one of those portals in his prison cell? Or did somebody take, was the prison some cover for whatever Manhunter experiments they were running on Hal? Like, because of that chunk that's missing from his arm. Because that chunk that's missing from his arm in the preview. Like, how had some Manhunter shit done to him at some point? Where did that happen? How long is this finale?

I, so the fact that my current, I think my lean. And then on the inside of the episode, little like, you know, two or three minutes at the end, Damon said, this planet was basically engaged in an unending civil war and a manhunter came to this planet. The weapon that the manhunter designed basically led to the death of an entire species of people. So if we are sticking with Zoe actually did this thing. Right. Maybe this is what sparks like Sinestro. And now Sinestro has already obviously killed a guardian, attempted a coup. That's all happened. It's not like the bloom of Sinestro's break is just going to be introduced in the finale. This is already here. But maybe this is where the like parallax synestro core fear can be our superpower. Maybe what he's exposed to on this planet is part of what spins forward into the Sinestro plot that they're going to set up. Right, because he's been like marinating in the sphere toxin. How, I got to say, how porous is that cloak he's wearing?

Pretty porous. It protected a vampire from the sun on Buffy Vampire Slayer. So I have some questions about it. But, canonically in the comics, there is a yellow fear planet whereupon a yellow ring was forged. You know what I mean? So like this could be that or some version of that. Again, that seems sort of like lab-like where they were, you know. again, if Peter Denglish wants to show up and forge a yellow lantern ring, then he could do it.

If anyone can do it, he can do it. It's true. Anything you want to say that we haven't said already? I mean, like, we kind of skip past the dad reveal stuff, but we've been talking about that. I will say the, the, my old man, he was convinced me, but better off without him. He said he had that pain his whole life, said it was getting worse. He couldn't hide it. He couldn't bear to let us see it.

Couldn't bear to let us see him. Yeah. how look in the mirror, right? He told me all this because my grandfather left it and a note to him had the same pain passed down generation to generation father to son. I'm broken, he says.

The broken line was, boy, very intense. I mean, I think that the, you know, the fact that we go from this John, Jr., John Sr., younger version of John Fear Toxin, Solo Rye, into what Hal will share about Martin was just so powerful like to watch that back to talk.

I thought that this is a pan, the wide shot. Should we go on a fear toxin boat ride together and see what we expose? Sorry, Buttercup. Come on, text. We have a chance to deepen our relationship. If there was anyone I'd do it with,

it would be you. It would be you. You know a lot about me already. I show you a lot of who I am. It's more than I'm not. ready. You can see, but I'm not ready to look at myself that way. I don't. I have it's more of that. Too many boundaries up to get on a fear, toxic boat ride with anyone. But like, I was so struck by, so there, you know, a lot of it is we're looking at John. We're cutting from John Jr. to John senior

from John to young John. But that wide shot of John's sailing into the, the cloud, the plume. And he just looked so, I mean, it's a great kind of comic book splash page visual, right? We always like that. But he just looked so alone. And that's very purposeful heading into, you know, this really massive seismic reveal from Hal. I mean, obviously, we also get a little bit of the comedy of John going through. Yeah, I actually do have a list of all the shit you've done to me. And like, here it is, but there's catharsis in there too, right? Double car crash. The double, that was the double car crash is great. Really interesting. And then the sorry. Yeah. I thought it was really interesting when he said, like, he betrayed, like, what is it, disrespect to me,

disrespect to the institution. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's interesting because, like, John, by the end of it, like, seems so out on the institution himself. Well, but, like, but I kind of liked that because that feels, like, true to the show's desire to say that it's not actually the either-or. It's not you succeeded or you failed.

You let go completely or you embraced in full. It's like, what is John's relationship to this thing? And it has to be something that he forges on his own. So like the way that he's screaming at his younger self when he's saying like, you didn't want this at all. You didn't want them to know you didn't want it all. And he's like, that's not true. Like there is like John actually does have. You think he's right? No, I think that there's like there's truth and there's deception and there's the heightened. Anything that the fear, one of my reasons from this scene is that the thing that the fear toxin is playing on you, playing on is in you already.

Right? Like it's super soldier. Super soldier. Very super soldier serum. right, good becomes great, great. This is why you were chosen. So the idea that there is like a truth to the thing that is voiced, that of course is what would be the most painful thing.

I don't think John ever, like, truly wanted this for himself. This is what you're saying. Like, I don't think young John or young adult John or any of these people, you just want to draw your little pictures, right? Like, I don't think he wanted this for himself. But this is something that we've been talking about. You particularly have been very eloquent on this. but like there's his option here for like,

what does he learn from Hal actually that makes him want to do this? Like what is he going to learn the finale that's going to say to him, actually I want to defend people. I want to protect people. I want to be able to do these things. And so I choose that for me. And how can I use my creativity and like these things that matter to me in order to accomplish that?

So like I do believe little fear toxin, when he's like, you never wanted it all. I think definitely like you didn't want it. It has to be true for it to surface. 70.30. Like you didn't want the thing that they made you think you had to want and that you had no choice for anything else. Like you didn't want the version of it.

Apple shot off your head. Yeah. And in that way. But that doesn't mean that there's not a part of what the ring represents that John admires or that he thinks would allow him. Like even when, you know, in episode six, the arc pitch, like, you know, you and Rob did a great job of breaking. down that scene and all of the interest he's there.

Like the fact that John has, okay, I wanted to be an architect and I'm creative, right? I'm creative. Like, but also he is still trying to figure out a way to help people. And like, yeah. And, you know, like, well, why don't the great Carrie Noah, John scene like, well, why don't you call it like something else that? Like, yeah, that was all really interesting. And so I think that there's something that the, and just, you know, John is a Marine and John is a soldier and John is somebody who is a part of, in many respects, a court. a core.

John is John like was told by so many people by Leanna, by his parents, like you have to go take this from someone else. Take the ball. Take the ball. Right. I just think it's interesting for him to become so disenchanted with those institutions and then still say you disrespected the institution.

And I like that he can be a character who doesn't have to shut himself off from what that could represent for him and his version of the thing in order to like prove that to somebody else. It's just that he has to find his own path to it. I thought that the like, you know, that kind of like, okay, you're alone in that boat

sailing into the toxin. It's all around you. It's in the air. It's in the water. It's in the rain. Loneliness as vulnerability. Isolation is vulnerability. Shutting yourself off from other people's vulnerability.

Getting a glimpse of how it's when Hal pops back, he is able to pull John out, as we hear him say, pull the gun away from his head. My point is like I don't even think Hal ever. left. Yeah. Because he's like, all of a sudden, you lost your marbles. Yeah, yeah, he's like absorbing it all. Yeah. But the fact that like John thinks that he's like, I'm sailing forward alone. Yeah. And that's when he is vulnerable to that.

Was like, part of the fear too, right? It's just sort of like you're all alone here on this boat. Yeah. All right. Just very harrowing. And then yeah, like I thought that everything, the Jordan Boys legacy thing. I mean, like you said, we've talked about it a lot. Very good. Really, really, really, really, really great. And I think that like, we've talked about it from the first minute of the pod. Just the show's thesis on fear really coming fully into light here, you know, with the broken line, like, I'm not fearless because I'm brave. I'm fearless because I'm broken. That that is what this show was interested in exploring, that working through your fear with other people and not feeling like you have to tell everybody that you're fearless, that you have

to put in a box, that internal box, all of the things that you're scared to, examine. Right. It's such a badass moment when he's like, asked me if I'm afraid, you know, like, yeah. Fuck no. Yeah. And then minutes later is just like drowning in a swamp of fear toxin. All right. How could you not be? It's new survivor season. Outweighed out, play out last. Here are our three castaways. It's the hallowgram. Yeah. With mere minutes left on his, his ringtime. I know. The charge has lasted longer this time than the last 5% reupted. But I'm not bad. I'm not mad about it. Yes, but Hal did, like, fly with it on. And then immediately fell out of the sky because it was out of charge.

I'm wondering if, like, project. And we'll also, John is better at everything than Hal is. More efficient energy use. Yeah, exactly. I believe it. Yeah. So, like, I wonder if projecting someone just takes way less energy than, it's like asking your phone to just sort of, like, sit there versus asking it to, like, run five apps at once. You know what I mean?

Yeah. Here are three castaways. The Hallogram. Mirror minutes left on his lifespan. That seems like. John, freshly ponchoed. And Sinestro, have you heard of him, lads? Sinestro is here.

Very exciting. Exciting to have Sinestro. It's thrilling. Here in the finale, the greatest answer to a mystery is a person. Trini, they're playing our song. The two of them are now, you know, they've been at odds. You know, you did this great job earlier in the season of tracking, sort of like, Hal and John together, Hal and John separately. Hal and John in different timelines, blah, blah.

And this is just like, finally at long last, Hal and John working together the way that they should in perfect synchronicity. Can neither playing our song, Great Arm Kid? Like, I think, you know, you are like a son to me and this is our found family and all of that, like really wonderful. Let a rip. The idea that progress for primary Hal and John was not possible

in the way that we hoped it was, but that doesn't mean progress in a form is not possible. possible is like such an empowering and really beautiful message. Guys, all it takes is like you just have to die and then like a projection of yourself from 20 years ago can heal the riffs inside of the various relations. This is a lesson at the end of the day that we all need Guy Gardner because what does have been possible without him? He had to go get the ring.

Something to think about. I'll think about it. Father to son plays again in the flashback Hal goes to get that ball. I think we haven't talked about. I feel like we've done all the theory corner stuff that I think. I wanted to do throughout. Oh, let's see. Who killed how?

How'd Sinestro get there? Yeah. Did Carrie and Hal fuck? I mean, and how often? Constantly. What else is there to do? Will Earl eat someone? Will that shotgun go off?

Yes. Actually, I think maybe the shotgun won't, like the shotgun will fail, but Earl will succeed. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, yeah. Will we find out what Billy's dip is? I don't know if there's time for that.

Of all the things that we have, what happens at the game, right? We got the game. Are they winning the game against Shadrun or whatever they're called? Are the Scur's getting a new quarterback? Yes, these are all great questions. So in the little, like at the end of the episode, you know, the little preview for the finale. Why do they have a chunk of hell's arm? Right.

So we get Sinestro basically making, it seems like John is basically going to like tie up Sinestro and tarragain him and Sanestro is going to make like a fear pitch. that's kind of the beginning of this like teaser for the finale. Ben Linus, we miss you. This could not be more our shit. Honestly, she could not be more our shit. The little Manhunter arm divot for Hal. Obviously it's worrying when in the imprisonment did that happen. What does that mean?

Does that mean that because I think we are both like still feeling that it would be less satisfying if the Hal who died was revealed to be a Manhunter. But does that mean that a Manhunter version of Hal is going to be deployed in the finale? like a recreation of Hal or that they used his DNA for something else? Like, what do they do with that if they have it? It feels to me unlikely that we would learn that they took part of Howell's flesh and did nothing with it.

What would be the point of that? I guess it could just be to get him in a Manhunter layer so he learned about Noah? Maybe. Do you think you're real? Has anything to do with that? Carrie being like, you're real? Is there like a Manhunter version of him around somewhere? Yeah.

She's like, you're real, you're not my Manhunter-Hal sex bot that I've been keeping for myself? You could 3-D print. Yeah. Kyle Chandler, would you? Well, it's like be right back, the Great Black Mirror episode,

like A.I. Ash. Yeah. They had so much sex because he never tired, but like it wasn't the same at the end of the day. But maybe worth a try. Just to find out for sure.

There's a lot of Kyle Chandler in the preview for the finale. A lot. So my question is like, how much of that is halogram with the remaining charge or can we re-up the charge? How much of that is flashbacks?

Were you tracking the assault and pep? And what he's wearing and there's some different stuff in the mix. Like some of it certainly, I mean, we see how, what would you do? John says, don't be afraid to be afraid. Feels like, here we go, boom. Real, like, thesis of the show.

That felt like Hallogram had to be, right? But there's like a firebomb in his Chekhov's house. So is that a, that house didn't look like it had previously burned. So is it, and he's, is that the halogram or is that a Manhunter hell deployed? To what end? honestly, I don't really have a good theory for that, but like, I feel like there's a possibility that we see a Manhunter Hal in the finale. I don't want it.

I don't know how it would feel. How long is this finale? I take the pinch from his arm. I think what you and Rob talked about last week, though, feels like a lock that we have to get one more version of the bleacher scene. Again, there's a quick glimpse of Carrie walking up the bleachers. So not only because of the reveal of who killed Hal, that, of course, that has to happen in the finale, but more so, like, the emotion behind it for the characters.

where they are at that point. And then, yeah, how much of the setup is about John for the future, but how much of it is like, what are we setting up with Sinestro and maybe the Sanestro core and like fear and parallax? I don't know. It does feel like a lot to do in an hour, but it could be a longer runtime. We don't know yet. It could be.

It's maybe, yeah, maybe this is like a, yeah, hour 20 finale or something. That's possible because all of them have been south of an hour. But yeah, maybe that one's a little bit. a little bit meteor. I don't know. Or maybe they're just going to do a lot with a little, which is what they did in this episode. Thank you, Mallory Rubin.

Thank you, Joanna Robinson. Great to be back with you talking about the show. I'll be sad when it's over. One more episode. But then we'll have other things to talk about. Vision Quest, Rings of Power. Dune, have you heard of it? Sheesh, yeah.

Doomsday? Doomsday. Avengers Endgame re-release. Wicker. Made a gazillion dollars. Did you go? Didn't. Me neither.

I was in Hawaii. But I do know. the extra scenes were. Oh, really? Mm-hmm. Do they sound worth it? Sure. Okay.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Exciting. Thank you. Thank you. To our Lantern Corps here today. Jake O'Reoucah,

Alea is working on this episode. I don't know what O'Lea is doing on this episode, but very excited to find out. Thank you to our squad. Joomi at dinner on. Arjuna Rick Powell. Mallory Rubin. Joanna Robinson.

See you soon. Bye. Thank you.