House of R - ‘Lanterns’ Episode 8 Deep Dive

Episode Date: October 5, 2026

Mal and Jo are back to dive deep into the ‘Lanterns’ season finale, "Dirt and Stars." They talk about the reveal of who killed Hal, Sinestro’s failed manipulation attempts, John’s new oath, and more! (00:00) Intro(06:24) Opening Snapshot(15:08) “You Brought Schlitz”(01:09:29) Caught Monologuing(01:33:33) Lanterns, Divided(01:36:36) Noah Did It! Kind Of!(01:49:57) Kerry Did It! Actually!(01:58:56) Lanterns, United (Mostly)(02:05:42) A New Motto Hosts: Joanna Robinson and Mallory RubinProducer: Carlos ChiribogaProduction Assistant: Scott LeeStudio Production: Jacob CornettSocial: Jomi AdeniranAdditional Production Support: Arjuna Ramgopowell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

and welcome back to House of Our. I'm Joanna Robinson. Joining me today. Oh my gosh. I would let her get away with literal murder. It's Mallory Rubin. Joanna, if you could see the inside of my head, you'd never stop screaming. It's been five years and I still feel that way, you know, about you, about myself. I know. Our five year anniversary on Sunday. That's right. So yesterday when people are listening. That's right. Yeah, five years, half a decade together. That means we've known each other for, gosh, close. to a decade. Yeah. More casually, but, dang, deeply and intimately for five years. Deep, deep, deep, deep. Magical.

We're going to talk more about our love for each other. If I were to blip out hologram style, I would like the last thing I say to be, I love you. I love you. Too late for a spoiler warning. I love you, true. We're going to talk about lanterns finale right after this. All right, if you, just in case you missed it. Yes.

We talked to Tom King about. about lanterns in general in the lanterns finale specifically and also about dip and apples and sex and everything you like to talk about. That's right. That is already in the feed. It's there. That went up. It dropped yesterday. Check it out. Listen to it. Fantastic conversation and fantastic interview. It was so fun to hear from Tom about this season and just in general. Really a wonderful chat. One of my favorite things, and I've said this to you before, but it's our fifth year anniversary, so I'm just going to say it again. Whenever we do interviews and Mallory makes one of her just like beautiful eloquent points and the person, and who we're interviewing just like has to mutter under their breath. Wow. So well said. So brilliant.

Which Tom King, an absolute legend in the realm of storytelling, did do to Malay Rubin inside of that interview. So you're making me blush. I will. But I have a sunburn. I can't tell. I can't tell. You're still glowing from Hawaii.

I can't tell it all. Oh, God. Quick programming reminders. That's right. We're wrapping up our time with D.C. this week that we'll be back. Clayface is coming. You know. We're weeks away.

Yeah. So we'll stay in the realm of D.C., but Marvel also has something, and it's not just reheated nachos of Avengers Endgame. That's right. It is Vision quest. Can't wait. We're so excited. So we're going to do a rewatch of Wanda Vision.

Delightful. Agatha is still sort of banging around my brain. Agatha, we spent two and half hours on every week together. And guess what? We had the time of our fucking lives. So if you're like, I want to listen to that, go do it. But we didn't get to pot about Wanda Vision together. It was before our time, which means it was over five years ago.

That, I got to say. harrowing to confront. Yeah. Harrowing to confront how long ago Wanda Visioner. That feels to me like it was yesterday.

So if you can't remember Wanda Vision, that's right. We'll be talking about it in a special sort of catch-up episode. And then we're just diving into Vision Quest.

A show that I have not seen a single second of other than the trailers, but I just really want it to be good. I want it to be good. I love this. You know, I usually like guard myself

and I'm so cynical. I really want it to be good. What if it's great? It needs to be not only because then we could all share our great Vision Quest show together, and that would be wonderful, but because it's going to be... A devastating blow for the Joe hype meter,

like you leaning into this enthusiasm, you've allowed yourself to be like, this can be great. What if it isn't? So it's almost like, spoiler warning for the Landers finale, you open yourself up to love something, and then it gets you shot in the head, something like that. Because, yeah, hopefully that's not how it goes.

Like a halcicle on a bench somewhere? Tough. Hopefully that's not how it goes. Okay. Yeah. Spoilers for the lanterns and alley. Too late. Too late.

We already did it. How can folks keep track of everything that we're doing, including, I mean, Wicker's coming. That's right. Well, I bet. Cool me. I bet it is. Wicker is coming. How many orgasms in Wicker?

Let's set the over under right now. Oh, God. And like, Olivia Coleman's a real shouter, so I'm excited to see. I've seen the favorite. I know how it goes. Oh my God, I fucking love that movie. What's coming up? We already told you, how can you follow it?

Thanks for asking. Here's what I'd recommend. Follow the pod. Yeah. Follow House of R on Spotify. Yeah? Or wherever you get your podcast. But here's the thing about following on Spotify.

You can watch full video episodes of House of R on Spotify or the Ringervverse YouTube channel. That means, like, yeah, you could listen to Joanna talk about both. And you should. But you know what else you could do? You could watch her. Bob like an apple in a sea of books surrounded by tomes. That was really fun. In this very studio. I really missed you. I'm crushing, I've decided, as you know, to make a change in my life for I'm like, vacation is good and that's something I'm going to do. So I'm not going to allow myself to feel bad about having taken one, but I was sad to miss that. But what a wonderful treat for the bad babies, incredible stuff. Wonderful. Just delightful. And one of the most

requested books that people wanted to hear about was dungeon crawler Carl, which they can hear you talk about. Soon. Where? Yeah. The Jeslinik Book Club. I'll be joining Anthony now. Jeslinic Book Club is on the Ringer Podcast Network. What a time to be alive. Just incredible. Delightful. It's wow. Anthony was your guest for House of Reeds. Delightful. And yeah, I'll be chatting. I'll be chatting with him about Carl. Princess Donut, who is now in my life. I want to thank all the bad babies who said, you need to let Princess Donut into your life. You were right. It's great stuff. So yeah, follow along, follow the pod. And also, while you're at it, follow House of Our Pod.

Say it again. At House of Our Pod. Perhaps the first time ever that I've said that correctly instead of saying outhouse of our pod on Instagram, TikTok, etc. Follow at Ring Reverse, of course, as well. And, you know, see what fun stuff we're getting up to over on social. Who knows? While you're at it, send us your emails because the inbox is always open.

Hobbiton Dragons at gmail.com. Please do. I think that's it. I think that covers it. Hey, have we mentioned spoilers for the entrance finale? We're going to talk about everything. It's too late. Let's go now to our opening snapshot.

Mallory, before we dive deep. Yes. Let's keep its surface level. Great. Let's do something superficial. Why not? Episode 8, Dirt and Stars. Directed by Alex Lockaroff, who directed the previous episode, talked about his storied history inside of television directing.

Written by Murderers Row. Tom King, have you heard of him? He's been on our podcast. Damon Lindelof, have you heard of him? He's been on our podcast. That's right. And Chris Mundy, have you heard of him. He's on the Midnight Boys.

Beo, beo. So all three have been here in the Ring of Earth's family. Molly Rubin, talk to me about the finale. I really liked the finale. I thought that overall the season was, ooh, you heard the Baltimore there. Overall, overall, going down to the ocean on. I thought the season of TV was great.

just had a wonderful time covering the season. The finale was not my favorite episode of the season. I think the pen ultimate, episode seven, was just, I think for both of us, we agree. The peak, it was really exquisite and we'll stay with me. But the finale, rooting itself in and orienting around conversation, character, emotion theme, that's our shit, you know. And I think the fact that this was such an intimate. and personal finale, it was not a string of set pieces and big finale.

Yeah. To an ending. It was so deeply human. Suit up moment. No, like, none of that. And I don't, you know, like, overall people are loving lanterns. That seems to be prevailing a reaction. But I do remember when the first couple trailers came out, people are like, hey, you're

going to have some lanterning in your lantern show? That's right. So I'm curious if people, you know, I agree with you. Like, this is my preference for a finale of this kind is to have these kind of conversations. See what the masses think. But, you know, I'm just curious if they were like, if they'll miss it at all or if they're like, that was so engrossing, I don't care. Or if they're like, hey, we wanted more constructs from our season of lanterns, you know? So maybe so.

I don't, I genuinely don't know. Yeah. I'll be curious to see that as well. But, like, the reaction has been so high that I'm hoping. I also, episode seven was by far my favorite. I thought it was just like exquisite storytelling, just really, really good. I liked exactly what you were talking about in terms of like conversation, character, emotionality for the finale.

There are some things that even though this finale did have, feel like it had space to breathe inside of conversations, thinking about like John and Kerry on the sidelines of the game, just sort of having that conversation, like Noah and John in the car having that conversation. Like there was time to breathe, but they still felt like I was. missing a few things. Like we sped past a few sort of emotional beats, a few steps along the way. Yeah. So I, you know, sometimes we talk about how greedy we are. Like I would have taken maybe another half hour inside of this episode to, to like be with Sinestra a little longer or like, you know, get some like Stewart family stuff that's more than just montage, you know, just like some

of the moments I was just like, I wanted even more. Yeah. I think on that front, the other thing that I found myself thinking, not necessarily about time spent inside of this episode, but kind of in retrospect now across the season. Because Noah, as we had really, I think, we and Lantern's viewers, you know, in Mass, had begun to anticipate that this was going to be a very Noah-centric conclusion. I do wish that we had spent a little more time with Noah. And specifically inside of the Carrie Noah relationship, given, you know, how her feelings for her son, to this big moment. It's ultimately her relationship with Noah is inextricable from what

happens inside of her relationship with Hal. And I think it's so key since, because this finale, there's a lot that happens for John and John is our main character, so that is as it should be, but there's a lot that happens for John in terms of like trusting his gut or, you know, all the or just sort of like leading with his heart

and all this other stuff that is really important. But since the crux of this episode has to do with sort of like what will Noah choose or is Noah someone? someone worth risking possible mass violence to protect the potential good nature inside of this boy, I would like to know him a bit better in order to feel those stakes. Yeah.

And I think it certainly worked. I mean, I thought that the car ride with John and Noah was really great, that sequence in the conversation. I think that it worked quite well as a parallel to John's journey and through the John lens. That stuff really landed. It would have just amplified it further if we had a deeper attachment to know on understanding of him. Obviously, the more we know him, the harder it is to...

Like, hide the ball on him. Hold the reveal for the finale. So that's the calculus always, obviously. That's kind of like what it felt like that they were just... I mean, we got, you know, we got a goodly amount of him, but like in one episode, basically. And I felt like a case of trying to hide the ball a bit deprived us of just a little bit more time. Yeah. I think that the Hal Carrey opening and the Hal John conclusion were wonderful.

And for people who have really grown invested in these characters over the course of this season of television specifically, just a really, really, really, like, rich way to conclude the run. The other kind of big picture note on the finale is just that I was struck by, and I think this is to the finale's credit, ultimately into the season's credit, there's certainly open threads, you know, Noah's out there, right? So who knows what happens? Senestro's hanging out on the fear toxin planet. Worrying. John is now, he has forged his own oath and said these words and put on the ring, you know, just amazing. And he is now Earth's green lantern. He'll take the dirt. Guy's got the sky.

According to him. Sure, yeah. But it was. I don't know that guy agrees. Well, Guy just. Or that Leanna will take that lying down. Yeah, guy. It's code.

Incredible. Paracal. Guy, you are. That was just wonderful. This finale was very focused on concluding this season of television. It was very contained ultimately. Do you see strands for the future, but it holds up as a season of TV that is its own thing? Which is satisfying.

I don't think we're going back to Rushville ever. I'd be surprised if we saw Carrie or Billy again. We might. You know, like, I think if Noah, here's what I'll say. I was watching this finale. I quite liked it. I think if Noah had left off the screen even more, there could be a potentiality for, like, future Noah's stuff. I'm not sure that that's the sort of impression that that character made where we're like, we have to know more about Noah and his Huskers career and whether or not the Manhunter will emerge, etc.

I will be tracking Noah Macon's Heisman campaign. Let me say it now. I'm invested. I'll be tracking his draft stock. I want to know where McShay and Mench have him on the big board. I'm invested. Remember when... I have no idea what that means.

Remember when Tom King made a football reference and I understood it? Very special moment. If we hadn't sold you already on the interview, there you go. What more do you need to hear? I got it. She really did. Sports show is thriving right now. It's true.

I did go to a Valkyrie's game. I was like to go watch the play of game in the bar. Did you have a great time? I had a great time. Incredible local lesbian bar. The bartender bought me a tequila soda. It was delicious and expensive. Thank you so much for that.

Had a great time. And then Survivor was on after. Oh, my gosh. What a night. But the Valchari's lost. And I was just like, this is part of it. This is part of a burgeoning fandom. She gets it.

As you emotionally invest and you're there for the sorrow as well as the joy. The pain of suffering through the defeat makes it all the richer and more delicious when for just a moment you taste glory. Ultimately, for most sports fans, the balance is tough. You don't get to feel the joy a lot. We're recording this to take you behind the curtain on a Friday afternoon. There is another Valcuree's game tonight, so we'll see how they do. Start posting some Instagram, real video reactions.

I will be watching. I don't know if I'll be posting my reactions, but I will be watching. We'll see. We'll see. Heartbreak felt great in the lesbian bar. I'll tell you that much right now. Let's go now to our deep dive. From the studio that brought you WandaVision.

I was an Avenger, but I'm not a hero anymore. On October 14th, the Vision returns for the final chapter of the groundbreaking trilogy. That family wasn't real. You sure about that? I had a father called Vision. How is this possible? Don't miss the two-episode premiere of Marvel Television's Vision Quest. Nothing bonds a family together quite like Mortal Jeopardy.

Streaming October 14th, only on Disney Plus. You brought shlets? This was just all very important and special. This is really good. No, you have been number one booster, the buddy Garrity of the Carrie Hal relationship. So I was thinking about you a lot. Thank you. But I was thinking about myself as well because I thought this is really, really good.

But it's like all of this is here. I mean, going to the finale, when we discussed last week our theories, we were talking about, no, we were talking about Billy. I was like, Billy and the dip. Did he do it? Turns out Jason Ritter's just here. Look, hands him in a mustache. You know what? There are worse things to be.

Exactly. Worst gigs out there, certainly. Carry high on our suspect list. Yeah. This whole thing, this whole flashback, as told to us by Sinestro, well changed to a chair. Incredible. Interesting to think about. Yeah.

This whole flashback is here to be great and also to like twist the knife and make it all the more painful for when she tells him later. Knowing that, that like, part of the point of this sequence is to make what happens later in the episode all the more painful. Does that change how you experience it on the rewatch? Hmm. I did find rewatching this episode to be a real exercise and anguish, but in a way I enjoy. You know, I like to feel sad. I like to luxuriate in the tragedy.

I do, I mean, I think, you know, we'll go beat by beat through all these opening 11-ish minutes and all the things we see and witness and, you know, a glimpse of what briefly. was and could have been and how sad it is to how kind of much joy and and uh gratitude we can feel for the fact that they experienced that together at all but then of course the fact that it's even more devastating that it was ripped away i i do want to like work through together where we're landing ultimately on how carry being the one to pull the trigger like how that sits with the larger examination of fear and what it makes us do and how we react to it and and of course also the opening yourself up to a relationship and getting shot in the head. I think the messages don't ever make yourself vulnerable or known to someone else, right?

So here across me a five-year anniversary. Why ever open yourself up to someone you could just get shot in the head? It's tough. It's tough to contemplate. But if you can... I'm not saying that, but I think the show might be. You know, in the middle you get some world-class garlic bread. I don't know what world-class.

You get to fucking cowboy boots. Best in Western Nebraska. A little bit of local spin there. Yeah. When you have to like quantify where in the state you are in order to claim best garlic bread, I don't know that it's the best. I think that's a fair note. I think that's a fair note.

And also like... Is there a little Italy in Los Angeles? There must be, right? Okay. I don't know. There must be. Shout out all the garlic bread in North Beach in San Francisco. There you go.

And in Little Italy in Baltimore, Baltimore City, downtown Baltimore. So, L.A. if you don't have one, catch up. I'm sure L.A. has one. It just seems impossible otherwise. I mean, that place was called. called like Piscettys. Piscettys was really funny.

And then restaurants still. With love and respect, I don't think that garlic bread is very good. I think that's a reasonable, a reasonable assumption. I like that we opened, you know, right after, like the aftermath of the battle.

We go back. We go back before we spend time in 2026. We're in 2016 briefly. Maggie's dad's leg gets another star making close up. Blown off. Blown to bits.

We get the meat of the leg. We sure do. I mean, it's an interesting in contrast to, because we get Rushville again later. That's right. Filmed in sort of this like golden Americana. Yes,

the water tower is still decimated on the ground, but the flowers are blown in the breeze, you know, so like Rushville, it did rebuild itself to a certain degree. We get this replay of the moment where Carrie saves, I think that's accurate to say, John. Do you think that decision

played into John's desire to, quote unquote, save carry or protect Carrie? I mean, He mentions that it's what Hal would have wanted. But like how much does her saving him here? I was just thinking about Bilbo and Ghalom and Frodo and just sort of pity and mercy. Staying people's hands. You know, we talked about this a little bit with Tom King.

Check out the interview if you haven't yet. And this will come up many times in the pod today because it was so present and so central to, I mean, ultimately the season, but certainly to the finale, just the grace that John is able to find for other people. And I think that what's interesting about John and what's, you know, feels like a very fully realized, even though John is just starting ultimately his DCU journey. We're going to see him in Manit Tomorrow, et cetera. Feels like we have watched a character live a life already, even though this next journey is just beginning. You know, the way that he is able to, in a world where there is such judgment and bitterness and misery all around people all the time, find it in himself. to try to understand somebody else's perspective and point of view and why they made the decision.

And some of that is about what he himself has done and lived through. And some of it is about just making the effort to understand their perspective. So when we get to something like what he says later in the episode to Carrie, it's about Carrie, it's about how it's about his own mother. It's about him. It's all there in the brook. It's a lot about his mom. It definitely is, you know? Yeah, very much so.

So I think that's all there. I think there are so many different strands and elements that put John into the place where he is you know, like he'll joke about it kind of later with Guy will like fuck the chain of command, which is a big change for John. But all of this is in the brough end of like, what does he say right? You know, I'll embrace by fear. I'll do what's right. And thinking about that in a really big, meaningful way. I was really struck by your quoting his newly forged oath that he makes at the end of the episode.

And I was really struck by I'll do what's right because that is such an interesting phrase. without a larger governing body. It's up to you, the individual, to decide what is right. And we like John so much and we admire him and sort of we believe in him. But also I'm quite scared of the fact that he's using this particular lantern. So like, no, no, no, no. So he's just like, I will do what it's right. And I'm like, right now, I do believe that John who's like, I'm going to give Maggie the money anyway.

You know, like, I'm going to carry off the hook for killing my guy. guess. I'm going to hug my family. We'll talk about that. I believe in John and his and his moral clarity. But how long will that clarity stay clear? The lantern is scary. Powerful but scary. I'm excited to talk about that gorgeous. Storman. Great production design. Okay. Events are sort of briefly edited slightly out of order and I think a really fun way where we have that replay of Carrie telling people to stand down, asks where Hal is, John tells her, she walks, is walking up to the motel and then we like cut back to her in front of John again. Very charged look passing between them.

Which I thought was really interesting. Then she walks up to Hal who is slumped in, what I would say is not entirely on Talia Al-Gul style of pose. I would say when we glimpsed Hal less of the, but yes, I was like, is that, are we sure his spine is intact? He's like, I'm fine. And not a single. Do you need a doctor?

No. Not a single twitch of a finger on his body. Like is he paralyzed in any kind of way? It was really worrying. He looked quite hard. One of the things I loved about this so much, obviously, he's, you know, he's strewn on the ground, bloodied face, he's a mess. Are you okay? Are you okay? Like, his worry for her is so clear. If he wanted to, he would, guys. If he wanted to, he would. I mean. And then her worry for him, obviously, is very apparent too. And so seeing 10 years prior

in 2016, before we get to the 26th, you know, the relationship, seeing it, as obviously we have in some capacity mixed in with the humor and the barbs. And being on different sides, you know, opposing forces, like the feelings are there. Like the seeds of the affection on some level, just a tenderness and a level of care? Well, I think even very present. All of that's true. And I think it was even clear when we got that interaction with John the first time. And she's like, where's Hal?

Like, that's her question. Not so I can go arrest him. But like, is he okay? Is he okay? They had this conversation where they both seem to. agree that all of this is Hal's fault. Where are you on this? I don't agree.

Same place. Yeah. I mean. It's so weird. Like we had talked about this before when Carrie, you know, in the previous episode, it said like anything that happens next is your fault. And then they both, while, while Hal is maybe has a snap spine on the ground, like they both seem to agree, but she feels sorry for him anyway.

And I was like, I don't agree. I do believe that Zoe Macon, aka the grandmother, as Sinestro calls her, the manhunter, he's responsible. I believe Anton is responsible. For sure. But what Hal says is for selfish reasons. Yes. And he doesn't really like, I mean, I still think they're doing too much conversing for someone who seems to have a snap spine on the ground of this wrecked motel.

I think we should be calling the ambulance. But he doesn't really go into what those selfish reasons are. My interpretation is he wanted to be the one to take down the manhunter. And he had to cowboy through it. and not call for backup so that he could prove to the guardians that he is still a plus number one Green Lantern material. Yeah. And as we heard him say when we witnessed the Battle of Rushville for the first time, like, I'm going to fucking fly up to Oa and those blue bastards are going to kiss my ring. So for sure, it was still in the throes of like, I mean, you're going to take this off my cold dead body.

And so, of course, all of this is here for us when we hear Hallogram tell John that he's going to be better at it than he ever was. it's just all so great. I thought that I agree with you. I had the same, like, yeah, a lot of blame for Hal, for sure. But a lot of blame to go around. We're in the same place with that. I think the fact that he is accepting, seeing something clearly here in that moment

or how clearly is he saying it, but he is accepting a level of responsibility that will position him ultimately to, you know, not only do the time in this 10-year sentence, he'll tell John in the cafe sequence. But just that he is going to enter this phase of his life, you know, as we'll hear Carrie talk about it, Poscettis? Pescettis.

Posteria. Pascettys Posteria. That he's trying to do the work. Like he's preparing himself to do the work and try to get better to take some responsibility. He's a, what was it, like delivering grocery? Yeah, exactly. Kissing babies, helping old ladies across the street. mowing lawn.

Yeah. And so, like, obviously that could have just come from reflecting in prison, but I think that seeing right away here in the face of John taking the ring off his finger and walking out and the damage

and destruction around him that he's already right there was beneficial. I do, like the, because in this scene, this is where Carrie asks him, like,

what will the guardian say, that's what sets up. You know, they'll say, I did this for selfish reasons and how it's all a tidy solution for them. I don't know that we're going to talk about it

again, maybe when we get to the John Guy scene, but no Leon. I'm the finale. No, no Guardians in the finale. No, Laura Lini and the finale. I was surprised. There's a, there, when we were recounting, like, all the things we felt like they needed to check in on for the finale. It was a long list. It was a long list. And they were like, you know what? We don't, actually.

I think it's fine that Leon is not here. I think it's fine that we didn't, you know, especially since John's stances, I don't work for them. So, like, they don't need to be here. And I love that that's, uh, Laura Lennie's sort of exit from the season. If you go back, it's that scene in the bar. So that's like a. A great final moment. Definitely. But yeah, we did think we might get some guardian stuff and we didn't. Okay, so yes. To answer Rob Mahoney's question from a couple weeks ago, what is Hal in prison for? It looks like reckless endangerment.

Yeah. It got him locked up for 10 years, I guess. 2026. Prison pickup scene. Carrie? Unbelievable. Looks fantastic here. Now, she's always, she's always beautiful.

Yes. Helen McDonald. Just like a strong. striking woman her entire life. Yeah. But I will say, in the, like, bright sunshine with the sun just, like, sort of blowing through her hair, like, she just, like, has this, like, effortless, clean girl aesthetic. She's got the light button down, tucked into the dark-washed jeans with the belt buckle.

Six-back in her hand? She just looks at flowers that she's like, maybe, no. I know she tossed them into the car, but the fact that she brought Hal a bouquet of flowers was so delightful to me. He saw them in the car and he was just sort of like, do you get those for me? You know what I mean? Wonderful stuff. Wonderful stuff.

She looks incredible. She looks great. She looks great. She looks great. She looks great. She looks great. How? Look however you want to look in your life.

I support women looking however they want. I just want to say this is a beautiful woman who looks beautiful and like natural and gorgeous and how walking out of prison to this vision of this gorgeous woman who he is, wooed and corded, showing it for him with the six pack and all the things that these two incredible actors convey with very simple dialogue, right? Like, you're here, I am. That's it. You brought schlitz.

You came. You called. You came. About to. About to. I mean, if they had just fucked in the backseat of the car, who would have complained? Not me. I don't know.

Wait, do we know where that prison is? Hmm. I don't know where it is, but I feel like they're not making it back to the road. Pull over. Side of the road. No, closest motel. I think they checked it into a motel. Why not both?

Yeah. They're like, remember last time we were at a motel and your spine was snapped and everyone was dead? Last dream isn't that long. Yeah, maybe not the most romantic setting for them. Good, good point. Perhaps they found a nice, like, open field somewhere and there was a blanket. The hunger in Hal Jordan's eyes for Schlitz. For all of it. For all of it.

Let me ask you a question. Something I'm going to file away, just in case it ever comes up in the future. It's Schlitz for Hal. If I ever have to greet you as you are being led out of prison. What do you want me to show up with? Like, booze-wise or anything at all? What would be your... You brought Schlitz?

I'll tell you what my best friend does to, like... And it's also you. You were my best friend. I was going to say, weird that I'd be asking if I shouldn't have the answer. Interesting. Here's what I think. Schlitz is a great, like, about a six-pack. Like, that's a great, like...

Cor and Fred, oh, she's not from Nebraska. Gotham girl shows up with a six-pack for Hal Jordan. And they were, like, bring beer to the... the making ranch at the beginning. John bring beer for the meatloaf dinner, all of it, you know. When, because I like the idea of something that you wouldn't get for yourself, but something you really, really like. Right. And something you haven't had for 10 years in prison. It's a mint milano. Pepperidge Farms, Mint Milano. Wow. I don't.

Delicious. They're my favorite. I don't, like, get them for myself just because I don't. And then, like, my best friend occasionally, like, there will, it will just appear. There will be a package. I love a double stuff, Milano. Sure. What's yours? What's your answer? Flaming hot Cheetos.

Okay. Okay. No bad ideas and a brinkshund. Do you want a pair of chopsticks or do you want to get that, you want to get that chito dust all over your fingers? I want it on my fingers. Yeah, you want to be living again. And then like you can't even lick it off. You have to like scrape it with your teeth.

Wow. And you're like, I'm alive. Yeah. Because if I'm in like landlocked Nebraska, I can't ask for like a crab cake or something, I don't think. You know, a steam crab. I was thinking what if I brought you like an ice cold shaker and we had martinis? That would be wonderful. How many olives?

Post-prison martinis. The limit does not exist. It's more olive than martini. Great. Briny. Coldest space. Yeah. What's the line from industry is the coldest?

Salter than the ocean? Brightier than the air. Like, bright is the ocean cold as space. It's great stuff. Wonderful. The best thing Cal Penn has ever done, his martini order in industry. Okay. And working for the Obama campaign.

Okay. So this is where we get those like gold and Americana shots of Rushville. The song is playing. is called right back at it. And if you look up the lyrics, this is very much a song about two people sort of coming back together inside of a relationship. And all of the fear, like, we can do this. We can get back together.

We can make this work except here are like the things I'm worried about or here are the things that might get in the way. It's just like if I can just not get in my own way, trip over my own tail on this, like we can really have something special. but here are the dangers of rekindling something that went wrong before. Yeah. And so I think that there's like, I was almost thinking like, why are we getting these golden shots of Rushville? Very Shire-esque.

Like, this is the thing we're preserving. And if you think about this and also the very extended Friday Night Lights, like football game sequence that we get at the end and the sort of like post-celebration and the Macon family. The actual Nebraska coach Matt Ruhle just there to hand Noah's hat. I was like, I'm texting me. She's like, can't believe this guy's there. I was like, Matt, I texted you, Matt Ruhn. And I was like, real Mike Leach and F&L vibes, because it is, you know? Yeah. And I said, from context clues, I think you're talking about the Scurs guy who shows us. And I was. So there you go.

But, yeah, so this is a thing worth preserving. Yeah. Americana Heartland, the Shire, fresh tilled earth. Like, what do you think? Definitely. I think, you know, here. here with the golden hour. The other place I was thinking about that actually was, it was a humorous moment, but later as John and Noah pull up to the stadium ahead of the game, and there's like the little, like, you know, the little knock on the marching band, right?

It's hard in a small town to find a good marching band. But just that minute where they're sitting there and the music starts to drench the scene, it made me think of the beginning of Black Widow when they're leaving an American Pie place. And there's just something about the glimpse of the small town and the needle drop and the football. And it does this. Like, yeah, this is like the life that you don't know if you deserve it or if you're going to be able to get it or if you're going to keep it. And maybe you can and will and what a beautiful message. And maybe you will shoot your hot boyfriend in the head.

That would really suck. As we continue to celebrate our five-year anniversary, do you think talking about American Pie on the Black Widow podcast is the first time we ever cried together on a podcast? I think it might have been. Whoa. Great question. Because that was our third pod together or second. Loki was. Let's see. So I did...

You did the Lost Podcast. Did we cry? Did we cry about Sawyer and Juliet? I don't think so. Did we want to, but we weren't sure if we could yet. Yeah. Now we know. It was a little earlier.

Yeah, and then we did Black Widow. And then did we do one more? Did we do a Loki one? I think you did something. And then I worked here for five years. Or was it Falcon? There was one other episode early in the MCU TV COVID days. And then we were together and no one can tear us apart.

But I feel like I have. haven't re-listened to that Black Widow episode. Maybe I should, but I feel like we, like, cried about that. And we knew it was meant to be. Beautiful. And guess what it was. Um, can I, have I ever told you about, um, what when the Saints go marching in means to me? I don't think so. Um, we used, this is going to be a bougie sentence. Stay with me. Um, when I was a kid, for Fourth of July, we used to go to the Mandawee, uh, winery in Napa to go see the, they would do like a concert and fireworks. Amazing. At the winery. and after the fireworks playing you out, walking back to your cars, it was always when the Saints go marching in is like how it ended. So that is like Americana to me. It's like we celebrate. We watch a bunch of fireworks.

Adults have been drinking wine in the sun all day. Everyone is behaving badly or whatever. And then when the Saints go marching in play it. That is an incredibly heart-plucking nostalgia tune for me. It just means like childhood and all the stars like that. So when it started playing, I was like, this is so beautiful. And they started like shitting on the marching band. I was like, I still think it's beautiful.

Even if third trombone is a hard chair to fill. Still something. All right, let's go to Piscetti's Pastria. Please. All of the best garlic bread in Western Nebraska. This scene was just delightful. I gotta say, looking fresh on day night. Button downs all around.

Everyone looks great. The fits. New fits, wonderful. A sweet hot hal kind of like hunched and twisting his hands because he's uncomfortable and he's nervous. Like it was a real different energy in a really wonderful way to see from him. Kind of that like you tuck your neck down into your shoulders because like you want to try to shrink out of you and you know you're on stage and in the spotlight and everyone is looking at you. And obviously there's like a heightened intentional, you know, element of it.

But literally everyone is looking. Every single person who's sitting there is like, how dare you fucking show up here. Well, especially when you compare that to like him getting tacos in episode one where he is just like a celebrity and everyone's looking at him for a different reason. Tell me why you don't wear the suit anymore and can we take a selfie and like somebody who has always been in the public eye like feeling that flip on him. Yeah.

It was great, really great little moment. I loved when he said kind of the conspiratorial quiet whisper. Maybe this was a bad idea. And then Carrie said, I'm a grown woman in the law in this town. As fun as it is, I'm not going to spend another month sneaking around with you.

To which I say, release the one month sneaking around cut you, cowards. Cowards. Do you want a montage or do you need like a whole episode that's just them fucking around with each other? I mean, I'll accept anything. Okay. I think a montage, what song would you pick?

One of your dadcore songs. Some CCR. Some CCR would be great. Should we pick something else from Melanie based on your observation from last week? Sure. Last week, it was like four days ago. I mean, definitely something from the mid to late 1970s. For sure.

Because Hal is once again. For sure. He's listening to Cruel to Be Kind from 1979 later. Just rocking out while he's feet in Earl on the post-coital. I know. Plus. I mean, it went badly after that. But great little moment there.

Here's my one note for that, by the way, because we're timelining it to say this is just immediately poised-coy. He still has a sex hair. Yeah. He's wearing the same day-night outfit, but the button down is unbuttoned. Way too many clothes back on. Like, because he was just cowboy boots only and then he put the jeans and the undershirt and the button down. Obviously, I agree. Obviously, I agree.

This is like a, you know, boxer's only moment. moment or whatever, you know. If ever there were a time to do the Crash Davis irons and his boxers here on lanterns, this is it. You deserve that. This is it. You deserve that. I've got a question for you.

Please. You realize they wrote leave asshole on my front lawn. Once you file a report in manure their own, that takes time. And they didn't need to leave the asshole to make the point unless the asshole was the point. Two questions for you here. One, unless the asshole was the point, we think it's a little double entendre. We'll incite into other sex life.

What, like, yeah, what Carrie might be like? looking for in the bedroom, throwing that out there. And then manure their own. Yeah. So did they... I think you saw my many question marks about this in the notes. Did they leave logs? Like, how is Hal in a position to identify this as human?

What does he mean manure their own? Like, what's shit? Like, that is such a weird thing to say because manure... Have you ever referred to human feces as manure? No, certainly not. No. No. Not quoting this.

I don't believe even Biff Tannen. say. Manewer. When talking about other human feces. I do love that that's like, I've, there are some people I have disliked on other people's behalf as much, but like I've always kind of wanted to do the dark web order poo and leave it on someone's doorstep. Because you know, you can like on the dark web order all kinds of weird poo.

What? Did you know that? No. Yeah. You can get like elephant shit to leave on someone's doorstep. And I don't have any like personal enemies. but like in terms of you've wronged someone I know. Yeah, okay.

Like, righteous vengeance on someone else's behalf. But it would be elephant shit from the dark web, not quote, their own. You're their own. I'm definitely not leaving my own shit on anyone's doorstep. No, thank you. I just have so many questions about this. Exactly. Did they take a shit on the lawn and then rearrange it?

Like, you're carving around a sand on the beach. You're like you have stones on. desert island? Or are they transporting it? Like, how did this? I mean, I guess it's a, you know, testament to the community in Rushville and how willing they are to align here when the task requires it. But boy, had a lot of questions about this.

The shit express hack. Internet of shit. A.I. Poop analysis of that. Oh, okay. I'm just looking at what kind of poop you can get. This is all news to me. Yeah, an anonymous poop gifting site was hacked apparently in 2022. So that's tough.

That's the tough. part. I think being able to source weird poop on the internet to take vengeance on people is like kind of harmless fun at the end of the day, is it not? I'm just like, how did he know it was human? How? I mean, you can tell just about things you can tell just by look at them. Right? I mean, if you're walking, if you're hiking, you're like, that's deer poop. That's like owl poop. Yeah, you can be like, like, that's a rabbit. But like, nothing looks like human poop as far as I know. Bear shit looks like bear shit

and human poop looks like human poop. This is reminding me of a moment where once we saw but looked out the front window at home, saw a giant

because the first thing I saw was a bunch of flies, a swarm of flies. Yeah. Saw a giant, giant pile of shit. Told Adam, there's some shit on the lawn.

And he looked at it and he was like, that's human because it's just the size of it. And he went into like, you know, I'm going to find out did this mode and then he checked the camera.

Just a cat taking a gigantic dump on the lawn and then going out of stay. That cat is not well. Going him out of stay. But also I have some questions for Adam. He's like that cat shit is cleaning. It was really big. I don't know. And he was looking through the window from a distance, but this is why people come to Al-Sovar, you know?

I'm sorry, I'm three pages deep on this group search. It's not getting me what I want. We're going to follow up. But anyway, Homasandragastu'su, Gmail.com. If you know where I can get weird poop, zebra poop. Because I think this is maybe an urban legend, but I think it was like that like zookeepers were like selling weird and exotic poop on the internet. But then like, would it stay fresh in transport? Do you have to like, do you want it to quote stay fresh?

Well, if you're going to use it to like vengeance on someone, you don't want to dried up disc that doesn't smell like anything. You want something moist and stinky. What if you light it on fire? Or if your plan is to light it on fire? It doesn't matter. Well, I don't know. Does dry poop catch as well as wet? I know a lot less about this than you, apparently. So I don't feel like I am equipped to answer. Wait, I feel like, I mean, yeah, you use, because you can use manure to like start fuel things. Okay. Anyway, so let me think about.

It sure is. It sure is, folks. It is. Don't make me feel like the weird one when we have said some weird things. Thank you. And you were free to express yourself in any form. I've never done this, but I'm clear. I'm poop curious. Guys, you have your first quote card. Actually, that's like the tenth already. By the way, since we've been talking, I'm just going to say this into a microphone because I can and it's Friday afternoon.

It's my birthday tomorrow. It's our five-year anniversary. You do what we want. Let a rip is not the phrase you want to use so close to the poop thing. We did email Tom King, mirror, like, less than an hour ago to ask for the dip recipe. They've already sent the dip recipe over. Let's get on it. Can I read it to you?

Yeah, right now. So if you listen to our Tom King interview, Mallory did me a solid and asked about Billy Macon's dip, his special dip. Yeah. And Tom said it came from a family recipe book. Yeah. Here's the quote that was sent to us. It's a cookbook owned by my grandma, like recipes from friends, so not hers.

Also, the dip might be deadlier than Sinestro. That's what Tom wrote to us. Incredible. I think it's our responsibility to find out. There are three recipes on this page. One is called special cheese ring. So his family's from Nebraska. So this is all, like, deeply Midwest from, you know, generations previous.

Yeah. Special cheese ring. Trevor's birthday fondue. So this is the cheese section apparently. Oh, I love a fondue. I love a fondue. Yeah, the fondue, the fondue recipe looks pretty. This one is called The Dip.

The Dip. Yeah, here we go. Comes from Anna. I'll withhold her last name in case she doesn't want it out there. but Anna is the one who sent this in, apparently. Okay. One pound hot breakfast sausage. Okay.

Oh my. It's like a Jimmy Dean. Okay. I'm sure. Yeah. Hit the skillet. Okay. Not hot temp, like hot, like hot, like spicy.

I see. Okay. Okay. One and a half. We can do, we can do, we can lower the spice level for you. I enjoy, I enjoy a spicy. A spicy. But you're like, surely one pound of hot breakfast sausages on the meat in this.

No. No? More? One and a half pounds ground round. Okay. Okay, so that's what he mentioned. He was like some shark, right? Okay. One small onion chopped. What kind?

It doesn't say. Okay. I would say yellow. You a small yellow onion? Yeah. Okay. Great. Raw? Well, you're going to brown it with the meat. Okay. We're doing some sauteing. Okay. This I was not mentioned by him, but like, it's not cream. Thank God. It's the Midwest hot dish classic, which is cream of mushroom soup. One cup cream of mushroom soup. Oh. Oh, you have my attention here. One can hot tomatoes. I don't know what that means. Like a peeled tomato, a stewed tomato?

Well, sure, but like what does hot tomatoes mean? Oh, I don't know. Are they spicy as well? Oh, God, I don't know. And then two pounds of velvita cheese. And then it says add cayenne pepper if you want it hotter. Makes a lot good for a crowd, serve with chips. I mean, I think we should make this, but maybe not quite as hot as this calls for.

Because it's hot tomatoes, hot breakfast sausage, and then add kind of. if you want to. This sounds delicious. I think we need the scoops. Oh, yeah, yeah. Like tostito scoos? Yeah. It's a little bowl.

So this might be social content if we decide we want to ruin our stomachs next week. Stay tuned. Stay tuned. Maybe five years is a good run and then we die. Thank you to Tom King for sending us the dip. The best. We may or may not post this on social. Maybe we'll redact the name.

So poor Anna from Nebraska doesn't have to be. You shout it out for her dip. All right. Carrie stands literally by her man stands up one thing I want to say on the costumeing front again all the button downs look great but I thought it was really interesting in this scene all of the background actors inside the scene are dressed in like neutral blues and browns and like yellows it's like very sort of like blend into the background sort of thing and then Hal is dressed in this dark button down and then Carrie has this just like silky white button down so she really just hops among the scene of the patrons of the Piscetti's. And at Pascetti's Posteria Restaurant. White. It's a risk.

Wow. Yeah. Do you think she got some spaghetti? She's a regular at Piscretty. She knows how to twirl her Pistretti to not splash. I would imagine. I'm like, I can't remember the last time I was out of like a like a spaghetti factory, like a Pasteria.

Man. It's been a while. Spaghetti Warehouse, Syracuse, New York. Got me through college. Spaghetti factory. Shout out. But imagine wearing that button down to like ramen. The splashiest of all

like the date night meals that you can have. I mean, listen, if you're about to go home to fuck Hal Jordan, it's just one more reason to be like, better get this off. I gotta soak this. All right. I loved the setup to this being Hal saying, I

know how hard you worked to earn respect in this town. So much of this conclusion of this season is seeing how Hal You know, you already mentioned that we hear him say like his selfish reason. So it's about finding ways to do the selfless thing and think about other people. When he rejects Sinestro at the end, not only are we thinking about Howell's evolution and Hal and John together, but like, it's a pretty selfless thing to be like, I actually am going to pass on that maybe bullshit, but still offer to like resurrect me from the dead. I have some notes on that. For you.

I agree with your larger point, obviously. I do feel like Hal took the decade in prison and spent time on whatever the opposite of the manosphere is. And he's just sort of like, I support your career, honey. Yes, exactly. He's done some. He's done some therapy for sure. When Carrie says he could have gone anywhere, he's still a hero most places. So like Piscetti's a villain, but that talkeria, he might still be a hero.

And just thinking about what it means to be the lantern of a sector and like all the, you know, when you've tasted the pleasure, the galaxy. Like, I liked that line a lot not only because of... Do you think he's a hero in Guadalajara? That's, that was just... Here's a top-tier joy of my life. Listening to Kelly MacDonald in her accent, which I've come to, like... I'm not going to Guadalajara. Guadalajara.

It's really something. Kelly McDonald's accent has really grown on me in terms of like, it's still... Interesting. Of, not of Earth. But this is the thing I say about accents. As long as you're consistent with it, I can just sort of like... get used to it. And so like her vowel sounds are all alien and bizarre, but they're all always the same. That's true. That's sort of like, that's just what Sheriff Kerry sounds like. You know what?

Guala Hara. Like, you know, that's just what she sounds like. That is a good point. She is not doing the Little Fingers accent is not only always astonishing, but changes every two and a half episodes. It's a good point in a very generous read, I would say. Thank you. I just, I did really like reminding us that like, not only did Hal not have to go back to Rushville. although obviously we understand why he is for Carrie, but also to do the penance. This sense of guilt and shame that we hear why did Zoe go back to the Antas Planet, all of it connected. But like just, you know, that there could be places elsewhere in the galaxy that he could go

where he'd still just be idolized where they wouldn't know or care about what had happened. It tells us a lot. It's not just that he chose to go here. It's he chose to go here when he could have gone other places and lived a different life, you know. Though I guess he can't really go off plan anymore. Well, yeah, go off plan anymore. But like I think back like in, you know, his hometown or something like that.

Like I thought she meant sort of like elsewhere in the world. Yeah. He's still like our, our former Greenlander. Go fly, you know. And especially after a couple of years of Guy Gardner, people are like, what's a, what's a Nebraska town? I mean, on the Guy Gardner front, like, you know, he's like, you tricked me with John later. How hard would it be for hell to be like, Guy, I need you to fly me to a different planet?

That's true. The tentacle one. The tentacle one. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, the crucible, you know, we have very, very different context. But like when Zoe and John in episode five we're talking, you know, like the crucible that forges your greatest self, the idea that Hal is like, this is the crucible for me returning to Rushville. It's a nice little way to reinforce them. I like how almost like Posgetti, Posteria Italian you got there.

No, to do. Oh, okay. It's a me. All right. So she says, he deserves peace. We all do. We all do. I'm wondering if that's on John's mind at the end, right?

Like that the makins deserve piece we all do. You know, that there's, yes, Carrie shot howl in the head. We don't love it. It's not great that, you know, that our guy know is a manhunter. Yeah. Billy seems like kind of a piece of shit. But like how much were their lives warped by Zoe coming to town in the first place and everything that happened in Rushville?

So something to think about. I, you know, the he's with me kind of like end note and sitting down and taking a Way to the guest down. I mean, boy, it's... That look on Hal's face, the gratitude and the flirtation and the smile and the smirk, but it made me think, like... But like, has anyone ever done that? Exactly. Especially coming off of episode seven, which we love so much and what we got to glimpse with Hal.

And his dad, like, it just made me think, God, how long has it been since Hal has had someone really just stand there? Punch his little league coach for him. And punch his little league coach in the face. Yeah. And, you know, we had our notes on that, but there is something about just, like, feeling undeniably that someone is in your corner. Yeah. Absolutely. It was, it was great. Mallory. I'm in your corner. Brother, that's all that matters. Post-coital download about what no one knows and when he knows it. When you first watch this scene and Kyle Chandler is naked in bed, but for the cowboy boots. And they're talking about what no one knows and when he knows it. Did you just hear want, wah, wah, want, because you were so distracted by the scene. laid before you. So I screamed aloud when we cut. I screamed aloud. We cut to this. And Carrie is getting dressed. And then we switch camera angles and we see Hal behind her naked in bed,

sheet over him and then cowboy boots in bed. Now I have some hygiene notes on cowboy boots in bed, but I'm willing to allow it here because I think it means they just changing the sheets. Changing the sheets. And like I like to think just, you know, there was not time to take the shoes off. So desperate were they to touch each other? The, no, no. follow-up. Uh-huh. Cowboy boots had to go back on because you can't get the jeans off.

Well, but is he wearing a wide, like a wide, I guess he's not. Yeah. Imagine how awkward that would be to like kick the jeans off with the cowboy boots too. So I think the cowboy boots came off. I think they came off

and she's like, put the boots back on text. Oh. And he did it. That's what I think. Oh. Maybe I love that, obviously. Let's go with that. Could also be, you know, some different positions.

Needed some arch support. Sure. Maybe they tried it outside. And he's like, got to get some shoes on. Maybe he had to run outside at one point. Like he got naked, had to run outside some point because they left more human fecal matter on his lawn. Hopefully that was complete. This night was just, that was not a part of this night at all.

Hopefully, yes. I was just like, oh my God, they're getting dressed. We didn't get it. We didn't. Now, implied sex. Great. As we've talked about before recently. But then we got the smooch.

We got the smooch. And the little stay. Stay. I just was like melting watching this. I'm willing you to stay. Try asking instead of willing. And then he just says stay. It's like they felt to me here like for.

I loved this, but I will just say this is slightly mothering an adult man. When she's like, try it like a question. Yeah. And he says stay anyway. But I did love it. I, that is undeniable. You're right. I felt that it was like two people have been through a lot who felt probably for the first time in a long time.

like they were just shy middle schoolers almost, you know? Unsure, happy to be chosen by each other, happy to be falling in love, but kind of unsure of what the next step is. And I think the idea of stay, you know, I was thinking back to when John went through Howell's mansion and we talked about this at the time. But like, you know, the no second nightstand, right, in his bedroom when we saw his house. And like all of the reinforcements there that like it was a shelter. for him, but not a home. And also that he was clearly other than with Earl, obviously, shout out Earl, not sharing it with anybody. So stay. It's like, this isn't just sex. This isn't just lost. Like, share my life with me. I really, really, really loved it.

I mean, I both agree with that and also think if he's moving back to Rushville, like, all of that is quite clear. Also, I just want to say, I feel bad for, like, thinking that Hal moved into this shitty place. His house is quite nice. Lovely. I mean, he had a ton of money. So, like, it made sense. I was, like, wondering why he was living in this dingy, like, unless it was, like, penance or something like that. But, no, he lived in this lovely house with an Americana, American flag out front. And it got burnt to shit by some locals. Fire bombed.

Um, I just want to, a moment for the sheets. These are great sheets. These are, like, linen sheets. Oh, I love a lot of sheet. Like, contrasting earth tones. I think it looked like, you know, there's just, like, a sham and everything. Like it's just, it's really good. I don't know if this is like a parachute situation.

I am a personal parachute linen sheet user. Pottery Brown. I love a. No free ads. I love a bamboo. No free ad. No free ads. But parachute, if you're listening.

But quits, we have done ads for you and you have great bamboo sheets. So something to think about. Carrie asked him to go to the game and he's impossibly touched. Oh, my God. Are we meant to think, we have some questions about the timeline? Are we meant to think that this is the game? I think so. It feels like this is, I mean, who knows, but it did feel to me like this is like,

kind of this like final week here, these final days. So let's say it's Sunday night, date night, let's say. Sunday night, his house burns down. Tough. When does he find the, gets resurrected, Monday morning resurrected. Yeah. Does his like weird slow driving detective work to the Hammond Meat Portal factory on a Tuesday? Sure. Why not?

Yeah. Somewhere in all of this has found himself new lodgings. That's right. Has rigged up a shotgun. Yep. Has said something to Bernadette that has encouraged John to come to town. That's right. And Carrie has been to the new house because she knows about the shotguns. Yeah.

We have questions about this. You did some real boots on the ground investigative journalism by asking Tom King about this in terms of Earl. Everyone will have to check that out. But you don't know what I was thinking a lot when Tom King said that. When this fire happens and like poor Earl who's being carried around by Hal is scared and his little like roots. I mean, weird to see him sort of like unpotted like this, but like his little root tentacles are like quivering and fear. Yeah. Like what else can those tentacles do?

Oh my goodness. This is an all time historic showing for me so far on this episode. Unbelievable stuff. Unbelievable stuff. King is one who introduced this idea. Yeah. And then said multiple times that's not canon. This is great.

We love a thruple. We love a pollicle. We sure do. And, you know, if you have a pet, you know, like every now and then they like to watch it is what it is. Watch is one thing. Sure. Watch is one thing. Participate, quite another.

The, I am a little unsure of the timeline because. Yeah. We're shaking on it. So that's my question of like, is this the same game? Yeah. So let's say it did all happen in a week? Right. Because it feels like when how confronts.

Carrie about Noah. That, just that scene, it plays like, this is the first time they have interacted since he found out about Noah. So I was like, is that the first time they've seen each other? But it can't be. Right. It can't be. If she's come to the shotgun apartment.

If she's seen the shotgun. So then it's like, is it maybe not after just the I woke up with a pinch of my flesh removed and was realized Noah was a manhunter. And they had sex again and she didn't know that he had a manned under a whole bunch in his arm. They're exploring every inch of each other every time. So that's, I don't quite, that doesn't totally hold up. But maybe he had to get his like Guadalajara ducks in a row before he

could, like, spring this on her. And they waited until he did the slow car creep and then the Preet. And maybe, I mean, maybe the reason. Shaded with Sinestro and then confront, obviously, all the Carrier competition. But, like, maybe it was something about John being there sort of accelerated his need to say, like, we need to get Noah out of here. Like, John was here. So, like, we need to go. Right? Because, like, things are heating up if John's been here and he's seen me. It's just a little, I don't totally, I can't quite get my mind and arms around. In order. But howl found out Noah was a manhunter and didn't bring it up. So let's, it doesn't make sense. We don't know how to reconcile it.

Let's pretend it is the same game. Yeah. Devastating. Horrible. For her to be like, come to this game and him to be so together. Oh my God. Kind of other people and they kiss and it's like that's where you're going to die. I'm going to kill you.

I was like that very, very much. That's where I'm going to kill you. Tough. Brutal. Absolutely brutal. That's a good example of that moment in particular of like so love. lovely to watch, but really torturous on a rewatch when you know it's pain. Pain, pain, pain, pain.

Cruel be kind. Getting food for Earl. I can't take another heartache. Yeah. It's a great song. They've done a great job with the music. Oh, yeah. The music has been really good.

I do have some questions about the last one. We can talk about it. Noah? Yeah. As we're balancing his sort of like... Wait, we have to talk about Earl for another second before we get to Noah. I'm about Earl. Okay, good.

I was not ready to be. We're on from Earl. I'm about to have about Earl. Thank God. As we weigh Noah's like manhunt, you know, manhunter versus nature versus nurture, whatever. He saved Hal from the fire, much like his grandmother saved John. And Earl. I don't know where he put Earl, but he saved Earl.

Earl. Earl was not singed when we saw him. So, moderated the HBO panel this morning. And I asked a few of my own questions at the beginning, but we have some, you know, pre-submitted questions from the journal. Listen in attendance, and there were a lot of Earl questions, including did know a re-skinned Earl. This was a question. And so I got it in in the final. I was like, we have one minute left.

I have to ask them about this. Because of course you're wondering watching the episode, how can you not be? And they were like, sure. You guys have really gone deep on this, the viewers of Lantern. And then we got it. There was a damon was like, I think Earl regenerates on his own. You know, I don't. So that was interesting that like maybe Earl's just his biology, his physiology, like he is

able to withstand that in a way that Hal or, or, or, another parallel here with Hal and John with the fire and then the Manhunter healing, obviously. But there was not a formal confirmation that Noah had healed Earl, but so we don't. I think he at least fished him out of the fire. Didn't leave him to burn to a crisp, which is something. When he dragged, we used his teenage manhunter strength to drag Hal out of the fire, he scooped up Earl. And whether or not he like regenerated him, I don't, I mean, I do care. But like, the saving was my real question.

And I do want to know if like Earl has, you know, if they have Earl's DNA. Does Earl have some Manhunter blood in his equivalent of like an eye ball, which she doesn't have that? His mouth, I don't know what it would be. I'd like to go back in time to reopen the, did Carrie and Hal have sex in the new apartment? Between him being regrow. Okay. I think it would be a real waste of the brand new, highly sensitized skin. Oh, that's right.

did not have a sexual encounter with Carrie just to try out the newly skinned body, you know. That's a great point. I'm thinking back now to John, you know, he did leave early. Noah's like careful. That's right. You've got your skin is new. Yeah. And we can remember that John said it, you know, he described it when he was on the phone with his parents as like he had like, I'm trying to remember it, but it was something like rolled down like a hill of glass or something like that. So would it be too painful or would it be healing and soothing? What I love about, we still have all the questions we've just asked about Earl's placement by the bed. But just seeing Hal, for a minute one when we met Earl, we were like, Hal Jordan

Pecky, this really adheres us to him. Oh, carrying him around. The instant that the fire hits, the first thing he does is run to scoop up Earl and protect him. And then holding him, cradling him. Like, this was so sweet and wonderful and poor Earl shrieks of terror. And then the stairs collapsed and Hal fell through when I was like, what just happened to Earl is? he's squished under him or what's going on. But it was just very sweet. When you teach your screenwriting course, are you going to rename the Save the Cat section?

Save the Earl. Save the space plant. Maybe. Save the alien plan. Maybe. It's entirely possible. It's entirely possible. All right.

So we get this close up on that Manhunter arm punch that gave so many people so much hope in the trailers or theory fodder. But they know what they're doing. But no. Alas, no. That's right. He has not been cloned as far as we know. Who knows what the future holds?

They've got that DNA. They have that hell DNA. You have it. He has just been healed. One more moment there to believe it was Billy. Even though we knew it was Noah, we were just, everyone was sure. One more moment. You were on thigh watch, so.

I mean, when he walks in and it's the boots and the legs and just the cuff of the jacket, I was like, that could be Billy. But no, Noah, of course. It had to be Noah. I'm interested in the story of Noah figuring out his nature and, like, finding the tech. Like, you know, Sinestro says, like, his grandmother left it to him. So, like, you know, was it just that, like, Carrie doesn't know that no one knows, but Zoe had already told him? And we know that Zoe had been, like, imparting wisdom to him. Had she already told him who he was, did she leave a letter behind, you know, or did he just figure it out?

Because he was somehow faster and stronger than all of his, you know, like, what is the story of Noah Macon figuring out, like, he's not human? Yeah, I was wondering about this, too. I, it's like a little... tough to believe that Carrie wouldn't know that he knew this about himself, I guess, but I don't know. Teenage boys are private. Teenage of their secrets. Yeah, maybe it's not that hard to believe. Um, I- getting Aaron Stanford as pyro energy from him. Oh, I see that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, the hairstyle in particular. I thought, I thought, I thought this kid was really, was really good in the, in the car scene in particular. I, um, yeah, you know, the, like you said, saving Earl, obviously, with just healing Hal, we'll hear him say later, you know, I didn't start the fire. I saw the smoke and I went to help.

Like, this is always burning since the world internment. Sing it. Legally, can I? That's, uh, probably not. I mean, you could, but let's not risk it. The, uh, you know, actually showing us that there is this desire inside of Noah to be good. It's not just him saying it, declaring it later. We've, we know there's proof here.

Yeah, the Zoe not, when did Zoe tell? My head canon, I guess, is Zoe had always told Noah who he was. But whether she had or she left it for him in a letter, the Martin comp, the legacy, right, the Jordan Boys legacy comp or something else, either way. In a safe in the back of her closet? Maybe, yeah, under the workbench. Like, either way, it's a secret that he carries alone. It's a burden that he has that he's not sharing with anybody with his money. with his mom.

And so there's that... Women can't carry these kinds of things. Could be talking about it with mom, but she's, you know... I can't wait to talk about the finger becoming the baby later, the finger DNA.

I mean, I didn't literally become the baby, but the DNA that was just a wild. Really, some real survivor crossover energy there. Okay, we won't, in case anyone who's listening to this is not current on Survivor,

we won't say the person, but I was shocked. I mean, it was in all the trailers. That's true, it was. They showed a chunk of finger. Yeah. That was just a sum tip. It's the open era, baby.

I was like they zoomed in. That was wild stuff. Wild. A lot of us had assumed that Hal had figured out or detected or gut-susted like Noah's identity. But it turns out no, even like having been, had his skin regrown and Noah standing over him, he's like, has to be told overtly. What are you? What are you? I mean, in his defense, his house was firebombed.

He had all of his skin, you know, melted off. He's been bragging about his gut for a really long time. And I'm just sort of like... And he is, to that point, he is obviously like paying attention to Noah because, you know, when he says to Carrie, like, I'm pretty sure Noah knows about us. That felt like he's like, I'm watching how he watches me and awesome, what he thinks and everything. So, yeah, it's a miss for hell. It's a miss for hell.

It's a miss for hell. Do you now that we... So we had, you know, I love podcasting. So it's the best. Love podcasting with you. It's just a highlight of my life. Every now and then I am like, when you're breaking down the show and the level of detail we are, it's impossible to not let your theory brain run wild.

You know, like, I was thinking back to last week with what if a man? What if hell is a man? Undercomes the finale. And you're like, that's not going to happen. I'm like, I know, but what if it did? That didn't happen. That's for the best. This is a different version of that.

I'm not sure I said that's not going to happen like that. No, no, no. Here's the question, though. I support you in all of your theories. I'm glad it didn't happen. I think that would have been like a man. And he didn't even know. I just didn't want it to happen narratively.

Yeah. Like Tom talked about this a bit, but it's just sort of like, if you're going to open your show with we've killed Hal Jordan to walk it back in any kind of way, I think is shitty cowardly storytelling. So this is my question because I think we're in the same place in the finale. Very relieved that that didn't happen. We'll talk about the Hallogram version of this later. But in terms of the fact that that this Manhunter lab does have Hal's DNA, what do you? do you think that they don't do with that. I don't want that. Yeah. Me either. I do want the halogram to come back. Same. Same. That's how I'm going to like thread

that needle of. I still get Kyle Chandler, but the real Hal is dead, you know. So there need to be lasting consequences for a narrative death. Yeah. But we can still have the halogram show up. That jacket. Gone. Gone forever. Okay. Caught monologuing. Sinestro. My God. A quick shout out to Daniel Chin's Sinestro Explainer. Yes. Great stuff from our guy. Daniel crushing that. Really good. This entire, so it's just worth remembering. From the moment, Carrie,

uh, no, from, no, like from the moment outside the prison, she shows up with the schlitz, cowboy boots and all. Yeah. Through the fire, et cetera, et cetera, this is all Sinestra weaving the tail. Telling the tail.

Got to fill them in. Yeah. I'm just curious about the level of detail. I'm curious of how much, I mean, I'm supposed to take this as an objective truth, I believe. Yes. But, like, this is Hal's version that he told Sinester than now Sinester has told John.

Dude, I would just like you to think about Sinester sitting there, chain up being like, and then after they fucked and he was laying there just to the cowboy boots, and she was buttoning up the silky button down. And it was called Pascetti's. Pasteria. And she said the best garlic bread in western Nebraska. This, Hal, this, John, is why humans? Incredible to think about you.

Right. I also, on the kind of Sinestro comedy front, just the very beginning of this when we caught him. So it was Noah who broke you out. We'll talk about that part of it in a second, obviously. But the... Indicated. That boy has become a man and he's powerful. I was like, Sinestro is just everyone in the Rushville stands holding a making love to football sign. Like, that boy has become a man and he is powerful. Noah's hold on everyone. I thought it was a real barmets that energy. Yeah. Okay, take the victory lap here. on Mahoney. We were united.

We love Rob Mahoney. Oh my God. There's no one like them. There's no one like them. But here's what I've learned over years of podcasting. Never scoff openly in the face of someone's theory because it will come back to haunt you. And in this case, I was right about Noah being the one to break out Sinestra, which was just a theory I floated. And Rob was like, no.

Like real scoff energy from Rob. Guess what? I was right. I mean, it was one of many theories. I floated many theories. I floated many theories, but I did float that theory, and he was like, now. Yeah. And I was right.

And you thought of me in that moment. Yes. I did. My vindication. I sure did. Sinas was chained up. Looking like some unholy pink combo of John Locke of Ben Linus, as far as I'm concerned. Amazing.

Exposition dumps about who broke him out of prison. It was Noah. What if, despite this being a very Apple-centric show, he had, you know, opened his mouth and it had just been an orange? Like, John. Let's just rewatch loss. Why not? I twist my arm. Do you think would loss have been in your top ten?

We didn't get your top ten New York Times. It was in my top ten. Oh, was? Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Did you post your top ten somewhere? I didn't.

Okay. I have to find it. I have to find it. But yeah, lost was in my top ten. Hardest one to leave out for me was Deadwood. I agonized. Flip to that and Battle Star a few times. That was a tough one.

But yeah, loss is got to be. No question. Absolutely no question. When Senestro's like, I want to talk to Hal, right? Like, let me speak to your manager. Yes. Sorry he's not available. Then avail him.

Wonderful. Pleased me. Deeply. Deeply pleased by that. John's gut tells him that Noah wouldn't save Hal just to kill him. So John's gut becoming sort of like the driving correct gut force because Hal is like, you got to fire up the lantern or he's going to kill, you know, like Hal's just going to be, the hologram is just going to be wrong.

about Noah and it's going to be John who says, yeah, I believe in this kid. I really, it was for now. Satisfying when John was like, so your gut's always right, but my, yeah, just actually kind of invoked that directly. Really good. Really great. On the satisfying front, little, but the part of the NOAA thing, there were so many reasons that felt likely and like it would make sense, but it is like a nice little, oh,

all this like, you know, Sinestro talks about the tech, right? It's like, all season long, this Manhunter tech talk and this, like, making ranch tech talk and the fact that, like, this question of like, Who would actually have been able to do this thing? You know? There were only so many plausible options. Right. At the end of the day.

Yeah. It's either Wiley Coyote or Leanna or a Manhunter. And Leanna's like, I'm not going to be participating in the finale. Laurelini's like, I've done my days on this show. Okay. So we get the enhanced interrogation techniques. Oh, my God. Some like Gitmo in the Fear Water stuff from John.

This is a tough look from John here, I got to say. I did not endorse this. This was rough. Not my hottest babe. Yeah. I did, though, like the, right before then, the, you know, the question of, like, why's from John, who, of course, is this connection to Zoe. So he's, he's fact-finding a piecing things together in a number of different ways,

but he's like, why would she do that? Like, why would she have come here? Same reason Jordan came back to Rushville weakness and guilt. Now, obviously, Sanestro is a villain. So he is, that is not how we are meant to think about it and see it. And I like this idea of, you know, Sinestro as a character who sees an action like that, what Zoe did going back, what Hal has done, going back to Rushville, as shameful, right, as some sort of limit.

And we see it as, like, what it is, which is an attempt to seek penance for your wrongs, a sign of gross. The humanity, whether you're Hal or a Manhunter, kind of rising, an acknowledgement of the failure. I like that. I like all this, I will say, as. Zoe Macon's defense attorney. So people are... Don't go back to the scene of the genocide?

I mean, no. Zero killers going back to the scene of the crime. Never a thing to do. I just feel like a lot of people are making a lot of assumptions about Zoe's motivation inside of this episode. Like, John's like, I knew your grandma really well and she wanted me to kill Hal and she wanted me to kill her. And I was just sort of like, I can buy that.

But it's just sort of like... Or Senester's like, this is why Zoe did this. And I'm like, I'm not sure that I... Yeah. Feel. What if she had told Noah that? And then Noah told Sinestro. Okay.

Sure. When he was a child, she's like, young grandson. I did a genocide once. And here's an Acme cartoon portal. Don't tell your mom. Have you heard of the Einstein Rose Bridge? Yeah. Could have happened.

All right. Senestano admits that he forged Noah Lantern. Kind of pleased about our dinklage bit from last week. Oh my gosh. I know. That was incredible. The handle, the lantern. It's the axe. This made me think of you because it reminded me of talking, you know, during the Loki run about that look, the threaded gold and the citadel at the time. And Katsuki, yeah. So this, you know, for Sinestro, obviously, the weaponization of fear and everything. The fact that he could take a, he's saying these things about

fear and it's like from the inverse intention and reason, but like he still has a level of clarity that the Guardian's stolen. It's just, you know, from what our heroes are seeing. But, like, you know, there's a version of that where you look at that lantern and it's like, wow, okay. Invoking the idea of embracing imperfection and impurity. Yeah, which is what Kinsugi is about. Yeah. You break something.

You mend it with this, with the gold. Yeah. And you keep, you're not trying to make it look like it was never broken. Yeah. You're trying to create beauty out of the broken parts, the broken pieces. Which fits so perfectly, you know this. That's how the like gets in, Mallory. It's how the like gets in.

fits so perfectly for John's Ark and for Hal's Ark. Of course, Sinestro is like, power, fear, weapon, you know, dun dun, dun, blaring sirens. Can I just say if I had like a dollar for every time Kinsugi came up in like a prestige show that I was covering, it's a lot. They love this as like a thematic sort of visual image and it works every time. It really does. I think this, the design on this lantern is extremely cool. Looks great. We did get, so in the comics, Senestro's exiled to the planet.

Q word. Is that how you pronounce that? Which I think is a play on coward. It's not my favorite. Play on words I've ever seen in a comic book. In the antimatter universe, it's where the weaponers of QRd, Cured, maybe Corde, forged him a yellow ring. We got an email from a listener Matt last week who says, that's fucking cord or keyword, cord, right? In the comic says where Sanestro gets his yellow ring. He has had it for decades before the other lantern colors are revealed. Guy Gardner even uses it for good chunk of the 80s and 90s.

the yellow dust and weather extremes giving big, core, cured energy to me. Did the Manhunters annihilate this place because of the yellow energy of fear? No. Like, was Anton a Weaponer or a thunderer? Like, I don't think they're literally doing that. Yeah. But obviously, they're like invoking this iconic sort of comic location. Certainly, yeah.

And just then, you know, what it means for comic fans to see Sinestro sitting there to think about the potential future. You know, who knows what the future for Sinestro and the DCU is, for lanterns as a show. But the idea of like, okay, our guy is not happy to have been abandoned there. Previously or again when John and Hallegram walk away. He's terrified. He's on a fear toxin planet. Like some kind of castaway.

Don't dip me in. Don't dip me in, castaway. I thought that was a really weird line. Like some kind of castaway was like a really weird exit line for semester. Yeah. And, you know, okay, like, is this the, is this the bridge to Sinestra Corps and to the fear emotion as his primary weapon and fear power? He's going to break loose of the chains, forge himself a yellow ring, and an even, like, consugier lantern. Yeah.

And just rain down terror and fear everywhere. I mean, like. This was not a show that chose to do this ultimately, but, like, if that had been the stinger, It wouldn't have been shocking. No. You know? How worried are you then about what is in John's lantern? Is this where you want to talk about that?

Did you want to do it later when he says the oath? When the hologram says you don't know what that lantern might do, I just say, I agree. Done done, done. By I'm John? Yeah. Here's what I'll do. Yeah, I'll soup up the ring on my cool Kinsugi lantern. Sure.

But then I'm going to go and find another lantern. Get another one. Get another one that's not chocka block full of fear. That would be my recommendation. People replace their iPhone cables all the time. Don't be afraid of being afraid. Great lesson. But also be afraid of that lantern.

But don't charge yourself up with fear juice. It's funny because it felt very emblematic of like the discussions we've been having all season. And then, you know, a very smart choice for that reason where like it does plant those seeds of worry. Okay, what, you know, a fear imbued lantern forged on this fear toxin planet. Does that mean that John is going to be, like, is he being set up to be vulnerable to the future of fear? powered Sinestro Corr or whatever else it might be? Or, you know, is it another way of saying of literalizing the idea that, like, John pairing that with his custom oath, with this outlook that he has, right, of embracing and

accepting fear, right? I embrace my fear. I'll do what's right. Just one more way to make John even stronger, even more advanced and more evolved. That feels like thematically appropriate as a read in this episode. That doesn't roll out the vulnerability in the future, obviously. And I really like just Sinestro saying here, you know, the Lantern Corps thinks that fear makes you weak.

They couldn't be more wrong. If harness correctly, fear can be the most powerful force in the universe. Fear is just evolutionary intelligence. Show me a species that's fearless. I'll show you something on the extinction list because you have like, yeah, he's right that the Lantern Corps is wrong, but he's wrong in his response to that and how he's like channeling it. And he's not talking about conquering fear.

He's talking about embracing it. or weaponizing it to try to instill it in other people. Here's a note that I have for this sequence, and I'm willing to accept the explanation that Senester is not at the top of his game. He's been marinating on the fear planet. It's chained up. We don't know how long it took him to tell that whole flashback story. Huddling under the little tarp.

You know, it's just like not going great for Sanestro. That being said, for the master of manipulation that is Sanestro, I thought this is some really clumsy work. Was it funny? You mentioned this in the Tom King interview. Was it funny to watch him sort of flip-flop back and forth between like how we can overpower him to John? He doesn't want you to have the ring.

But it was just like so badly done. Yeah. Again, I'm willing to accept he's not at it. But like, again, when I'm thinking about the Ben Linus comp, because I'm always thinking about Ben Linus, this character from loss that was so incredible, is like he would have manipulated his way out of this, a conversation into a chicken dinner.

You know what I mean? And so it's just sort of like, I kind of want to see Sinestro be good at this. Sure. Yeah, of course. Yeah. And I mean, that's like if we had more time. I want more time to, in this final stretch, to like watch Sinester be good at it, to maybe watch Sinestro like convince Hal for a minute. Something we asked, we talked to Tom King about and I still have some questions about

is like, when does the hologram learn the truth about what Sinestro did? you had this, like, beautiful comment that you're like, you like that the hologram sides with John despite the fact that he is not the Hal who has gone through the betrayal of Sinestro. But I still think it's like his flip answer of like, you talk too much. Sure. It's annoying is like super weird if the Sinestra of betrayal is the thing that like so broke Hal that it turned him from the 2006 halogram into, I think the word that Tom King used and I loved was ornery. version of himself in 2016. So like what we've been assuming this whole time or, you know, not even assuming, but like sort inferring from the evidence presented to us is that Sinestra's betrayal fundamentally broke

something inside of Hal. So for the Halogram to just be like, Senester, you talk too much, you always did, it's annoying. But like such a sort of speed through a revelation or a conflict that I would have loved to have more time with. I agree. There's like an incongruity there that's. does like kind of ask us to do a little bit of that work on our own. I think the the fact that we have seen Sinestro operate at that expert manipulative capacity in the prison scenes

when Hal visited him earlier in the season and we could see the way that he was able to work him. Yeah. Tell me about John Stewart. Yeah. It makes what you're what you're saying here, I think feel even more keen. But again, you know, marooned on the on the fair planet. I guess it It would have an effect on... Like a cast away. It would have an effect on any of us. But yes, I did quite like that we got from Hal here a version of John rejecting the ring. You know?

Like Sinestro's pitch of, he can't get you out of his head. He'll stay whole. If we have your ring, I can bring you back to life. For real. Hal's selfishness and certainly with the ring specifically and what it represented, the gollum-asked my precious attach. to it. The halogram is a less cynical, less jaded, all the things we've talked about

for the last two episodes. But still, for his mentor, a person who knows how to work him, who has that sway and hold over him, to pitch him on you bullshit probably, but maybe not like you get to do it again. Yeah. And for a halogram to say no to that,

felt like Eragorn folding Frodo's hand back over the ring and saying I would have followed you. to the very fires of Mordor? Exactly. Just so. Exactly that.

Exactly that. Yeah. So, no, John concludes, I agree with you. I think that, you know, like a powerful moment. Again, I think I would have loved a little bit more time with it. I could have taken a whole episode with the three of these people. Oh, my God. You know, like, I think it would have been great.

John concludes that Noah wanted the lantern in a reign to take his revenge on the guardians, but Detective Hal shimes in and claims that Noah was conflicted. basically by his hat ceremony choice. I mean, the nature versus nurture, Navy versus the skers, right? Really wild that this all comes down to, essentially, that hat ceremony being even more, like, you know, key and I from you, Malie Rubin, as always, as ever. But the hat ceremony, like, choose good or choose evil, choose the Navy or choose the Huskers is like what this finale is about. And at the end of the day, that's why he needed more time because he was trying to figure out who we wanted to be. Well, and get the scouts in to look at his, I guess, puny linemen.

That's right. I'm sort of out on this conversation because, as you know, I don't know anything about sports. But the outrage over the size of the linemen. And also the numbers. I guess they're not wearing numbers that are eligible numbers. Yeah, yeah. So I received many text messages about the numbers. We got a lot of emails about it, a lot of comments.

Yeah. Great stuff. And I noticed you didn't interrogate the career. of the show about it. No. You know, we all have our limits. I, yeah, the, you know, Sinestro's seeing Noah springing him from prison, the Lantern commissioning as like an opportunity, right? Here is a kid who I could potentially use to overthrow the guardians to keep doing a coup.

We love a coup. We love, we love a coup and we love characters doing a coup. I would like that on the Sinestro front. I would like to see that still. You know, I would like to see that story. On the house of our merch front. Do a coup. High up on a t-shirt.

What would be number one? Do a coup? What would be number one? Like, let's go down to the oceans, hunt. Like, which stuff go? Which stuff go? Probably very high up. Obviously, back in the day, it would have been working title, but that's a long time.

Working title is very old. Yeah. The shirt that one of our listeners had at the Baltimore game that was getting the pitmari. Get in the Pitmari. Show us your to be there. Yeah, shows your toby mirror. The bitch that was a little bit of the shirt. promised. That's a great one. God's be good, certainly still. Oh, yeah. Dear me.

Yeah, dear. Oh, this is a stuff, Lionel? Have you heard of him one? Dear me, we, oh, have you heard of him one? Oh, have you heard of them? Oh, my God. Wow. I would probably, oh, boy, those are all good. I might cast my boat for Dear Me though. I might for, is Deladriel here? That's a great one. But if we did Dear Me, it could be the two apples and it can say, Dear Me and each of them. Oh, but then we have to have like a bee flying around in honor of Beesbury. naturally. Limeon, our guy. It all comes back to Honiole. It all comes back to the beach. Oh my God. You know, for no, like, so you're the only one who's ever killed a guardian. That's why Noah broke you out.

I like thinking about, because we're Noah's, so the hat ceremony point and him thinking about different versions of a future. Like, you know, we hear him talk and share a little bit later. thinking back to like the nature or thinking about the nature always wins line from Sinescho here you know revenge but also protection the ability to be ready to defend if they come looking like Zoe was always thinking about what if they come looking and so Noah has to think as we'll hear later like if they would have a ring I would have a lantern that's something he'll say later

you know that Zoe John exchange from episode 5 you said it yourself you can't ignore your nature And then, you know, what she says, I had to. I couldn't help it. Yeah. It's obviously very top of mind, mostly in a tender way when we're hearing Noah say everything that he says to John. But it was hard not to think about it here too when Sinestro kind of taunts, you know,

this like you can't because then you, we don't, the message of the show is not to believe that. It's to, it's to challenge it and say, I can, I can set my own course. But we had this really powerful moment in the show where Zoe was like, I couldn't help it. Right. And later, John is like, and in that moment, she was basically saying to me, shoot me, kill me. That's John's interpretation of that scene. You know the story, you know the story of the scorpion and the frog.

Oh, sure. Yeah, yeah. So I was telling that story to a friend of my once who had never heard the story. And I was like, oh, the scorpion, the frog, like, it is my nature, right? Yeah. There's a body of water. Scorpion's like, hey, Mr. Frog. So me, I know you know the story.

I'm just telling you. microphone anyway. Hey, Miss Frog, will you swim me across the river? Yeah. Right. And the frog's like, you're going to sting me. Yep. And the Scorpy's like, I would never do that. If I did that, we both drown. I would never do that. It would be dumb to do it. And he gets on the back of the frog, the frog swims across, and the scorpion stings him. He's like, why did you do this? And he goes, does my nature. That's how I told that story. And then my friend got that embroidered on a pillow for me. It's like the Scorpy and the frog and says, Tis my nature. But I've been thinking about that a lot when it comes to like Zoe and Noah and all of that. It's just like, is my nature. It's a scorpion. Like, what are you

going to do? Yeah. You know, go go play for the Huskers, I guess. The scurs. The scourge. But then we have, like, Hallegram walking away following John out. It's like he's, that's challenging his nature, rebelling against his nature, you know? So we have all of these, like... But it's the fear, it's the fear, right?

Yes. It's like, that's their nature. They know no other way. And this is what the Manhunter will do, and that's a fear-based reaction. Absolutely. And John's like, I'm thinking about my fear. Am I... What I like about John... And Tom talked about this, like, so beautifully in the interview.

Have you watched it yet? You should go listen or watch our Tom King interview. But like Tom talked really eloquently about how like Noah has become John's responsibility. And what I really like is what that means is that John is not ignoring his fear about Noah. He has fears about Noah. I'm not afraid to be afraid. I'm afraid he might do this. But it's, I'm not going to let that fear drive the car here.

Right? I'm just going to live inside of that fear and keep one eye open, I guess, on what's going on in Nebraska or if he's transferred to Annapolis, you know what I mean? And then I got to take him out. You know, like, that's really interesting to me in terms of like, yes, you're afraid what does that fear bring you to do? And can you let it dominate you or can you coexist with it? Yes. And the, you know, obviously we'll build on this episode toward I'll embrace my fear in the oath, toward the just. Beautiful. The Hal John moment, don't be afraid to be afraid. All of it. The thesis of the season. But like,

when Tom was saying that to us, it made me think of the, the Hal Martin memory from episode seven that we were talking about a lot in the episode seven deep dive pod. He said it was a man's responsibility to make preparations.

And that like what we're seeing from John there, how he's thinking about, like this is like a healthier version of that, right? Like, John has talked so much across the season about, you know, back when it was like, do you like him? Well, like, I respect him and how the lessons from his father about like how he, the admiration for people who like protect, right?

And that's always been there on a part of it. And so John finding his own way. I was thinking, now I'm jumping all over the episode, but like I was thinking of your question, your observation from last week about, oh, it's so interesting that John called out like the institution. Because, of course, here there's like, he's like, I'm not participating in the institution. Right, he disrespected me. He disrespected the institution.

Then here to Guy, he's like, fuck the institution. Yeah. Yeah. And so what a perfect kind of way to coalesce all of that. We're like all of those little germs and seeds are there in John's, John's forged, forged version that makes sense for him. All right. I'm calling this section, lanterns divided. Yes.

John and Howell talk about whether to charge the ring or not. seven minutes of charge left. I don't know where this information came. I guess, like, it makes sense to me that, like, when it was Howell's ring, and he was uploading his consciousness and updating it, I don't know where this, like, fine print came that, like, as soon as John charges the ring,

then the hologram will disappear. So I was thinking about, I was thinking about this, and I guess my, I don't know if this is exactly it, but I think what I, the way I'm interpreting that is it's like, it's not just the charge, it's more when John like, owns the ring.

Bonds with, he's like, yeah, when he says the oath. And it's basically like the factory reset because it will then be his. Right. So there's like an overriding of the... But this is also esoteric and mystical. So I'm like, can't John just say like, hey, ring, I'm about to charge you, but don't delete the howl backup. Well, like even when, yeah, when Sinestro was kind of when he was playing them and pushing,

like, there was a, to that point, it was like, wait, are we, are we sure? Because we know that John is like, This sure? Precocious. You sure? You sure? Like, maybe John can just still... I know.

The bird is still there, even when John loses consciousness, so cannot, can't Hal be there? Yeah. If there's anyone who could do it, it would be John. And if there's any justice in the world, Kyle Chandler will be in season two of lanterns as a hologram. Okay. I quite agree. How reminds John that the 2026 version of him was trying to protect John, but urging him to keep quiet about seeing him in Rushville, right? John's like, oh, now that you're dead, you're trying to.

to protect me. And Howell's like, no, didn't you listen to The House of our podcast? Joanna and Mallory were like, when Al said that thing in the cafe, he was definitely trying to protect John. And this is where like, what were the last words I said to you idea kicks in here so that it can be a callback later. But he's like, what were the last words I said to you? So later he can be like, hey, I was blinking and out of consciousness. Oh, my God, incredible. What were the last words I said before? For posterity. Yeah. For posterity. And so then we can say, I love you to each other. I really love this because in just the flow of this very exchange, the, oh, once you're dead,

like it's got to kind of immediately walk back that once you're dead, Barb, because yeah, the once your dad, Halligrant protection is there. But that reminder that OG Hal also protected John, big fan, live and breathe in hell, the one that they went through all of that dark shit together. He didn't want John to suffer harm. He just didn't know how to tell him that. So we're 20 minutes, 30 seconds into this episode. The hologram blips out and does not come back again for a while.

It was concerning. Yeah. And frankly, if not for the preview at the end of episode seven for this episode, that made it very clear we would be getting another exchange between them. You would have been like very worried? Very worried. Very worried. I'm calling this section. Noah did it. Kind of. Noah moved the portal. Yeah. Great moment. John just charging through at full speed and then fall.

his ass out of that portal onto the ground. Pretty great. No, it kicks him in the face. Dude, he stomps on him. Bump, not curbs, but like, boot stomps him into the face. The last time that John fell through a portal on the ceiling. Oh, I didn't get to ask Tom King this, but I was listening to an old interview with Tom King where he was talking about advice he got from a writer on a panel once.

And this writer was like, hey, if you're ever sitting there and you're stuck in your story, you don't know what to do, just have someone fall from this guy. Just do that. Just have someone fall from the sky, and that's a great way to, like, invigorate yourself and you have to explain it, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, is that why John falls out of the sky into that pile of mattresses in the mall? I didn't get to ask Tom about that, but I hope that that that's why. Oh, man. So no one takes a ring off of John's bootkicked, you know, face.

And then... I quite like, do you think that's a good enough reason to murder someone? Asks if he's okay to drive. Oh, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was pretty funny. It's like, I just kicked you and stopped you, or are you okay to drive? But guess what?

John was, and as we talked about in episode two was that, when John got completely decimated and then was fine, heals quickly. Can take a beating. I think, so we get the, we get them driving. We get, I think, a fairly cheesy overhead shot of two roads diverging in the dark and which one isn't going to be. Yeah, that's not my favorite moment of this episode. But on our sort of like Noah Manhunter front, I actually think one of the biggest clues that, like, something will happen with Noah breaking bad in the final episode or something like that. is the two Cs that were planted between John and Noah in previous episodes, right? So in episode one, we get the exchange that we've talked about plenty,

where Noah is trying to, like, throw the ball. John says, you're aiming, and Noah says, sorry, sir, ever polite. Don't aim, just imagine it going through. Try again. Don't force it. Just imagine. Hey, what I say, what I say. That was great.

You know, how'd you know that? So my dad used to shoot apples off my head, and then Zoe walks up. Right. But so like that early exchange and then in episode six, Noah says, God, please let this week be over. John says, high expectations, huh? And Noah says, yes, sir. Once again, the only bar you need to clear, John says, is the one you set for yourself, nobody else's matter. And Noah says, you really believe that?

And John says, no, of course not. I'm just trying to give you an easier ride than I had. Noah says, but you're happy now, though, right? And John lies and says absolutely. Yeah. But so like those two exchanges led us to believe that there was going to be some moment where John was going to have to say to Noah some version of this lesson, which is just sort of like, make your own path.

Yeah. Walk your own path. You don't have to, no one has to tell you who you're going to be, right? And so like, just because your hot grandmother taught you a bunch of Manhunter lessons doesn't mean you need to listen to those voices screaming in your head to tell you to go to Annapolis and, you know, all the rest. You can imagine your own way forward. And is it you, you know, and the life.

lays out for himself is like married with kids, you know, just like having a normal Americana life. That's all I want, you know, and it's like, imagine it. Then make it happen. Right. You know, put that ball through that tire. Make that happen. Allstate. All state.

That, the exchange on the porch that you just quoted, the only bar you need to clear one and the, your happy one. That was most of my mind in this stretch when in the youth, you're still trying to trying to figure out if I'm going to kill you. I am. Yeah. You don't think I can overcome my programming and the tear going down Noah's face. Like I was thinking about what we talked about last week with just John on the phone with his brother. Yeah, that certainly. You know, John on the phone with his brothers and like, did you kill him? Like when you have to confront what people who know you are in your life, like yeah, what they think you're capable of. And the idea that John was trying to, even before he had this clarity like Grant Noah, that gift of possibility. And then of course

with this clarity. You know, so many of these different moments, not only the ones that they shared that you just outlined, but like just moments for John across the season that come into play in this conversation

in a really powerful way. Like, you know, when Noah says, I didn't burn down House House, I saw the smoke and I went into help, which we talked about earlier. And John's reply to that is,

well, that's the opposite of your programming. So you're not a prisoner to it. And, you know, the way that he talks about programming with Noah, with Carrie, later, that's not programming, that's love, like you wanted to protect you. You know, all of these moments made me think back to that John Leanna interview conversation in episode three that

really we were very struck by at the time. Humans aren't programmed, we're raised. I do not understand the distinction. Well, there is one. And how we've come to see across the course of the season that it wasn't like John rejecting the idea that a human can be programmed. It was that he had to reconcile with the fact that he had been, right? And how just terribly sad that that has been to watch, but also so affirming to see him push a new course forward and chart a new course for himself. So like, yeah.

I think it was interesting that Tom King and Chris Mundy on the official podcast last week were really hammering this idea of John having been programmed much like a Manhunter. So like really sort of drawing that connection between John's experience and Noah's experience in the way that like what Bernadette was sort of grooming him to be and what Zoe was grooming him to be. And then also like what does Carrie interceding mean inside of this? You know, like Carrie being like, am I raising a monster? All of that stuff. Yeah. This clear nature versus nurture kind of idea. And it's almost like I was thinking about it's all it almost feels to me less like nature versus nurture and more like the both sides of both of those things. You know,

Because the nurture. He's man and a hunter. And it sure is. And like the, because so much of this is, you know, we hear what Sinestra says and what Zoe says. And like this idea of the nature and the who are you and the what's in there, the Jordan Boys legacy. It's in the blood, all of that. But then like all the programming talk is really an indictment of nurture as well, right? So it's not really a season that came out on the side of nurture purely versus nature or the other or any, you know, binary.

It's really like both of those things can be scary and both of them can be empowering. And you have to really look inside of yourself to figure out what direction the moral compass is pointing in. And so that like going back to John's oath that we hear, you know, like I will do what's right. Yes. You know, I will figure it out. It's not what my mom tells me I have to be. It's not what Zoe tells Noah he has to be. It's not, you know, all of the rest.

It is what Carrie says, except for when she shoots. to hell on the head. But other than that, she seems like a really good mom. When John is saying here to Noah, like, you know, for a long time, I couldn't tell where I started and where my program ended. And he says that he decided, but how could I know? Well, I've been thinking about her all season. The, the, the, the, when he says, like, that's a cop out, right? Because if I can ask myself the question, then I can answer it for myself, this idea that, you know, the progress John has made to get here, not just from 2016, but from, you know, across his entire life. The level of reflection, though, that then kind of, it's not just about being able to break away from the path and the programming,

it's to have the clarity to also work his way back to that house at the end of the episode. That's a hard thing to be able to do, you know, to explore with the character and with the show. Like, that he, again, that gets back to what we were talking about at the beginning of the episode. episode with like the grace and the capacity to forgive like I'm really struggling with the Stewart reconciliation that comes at the end of this episode because like the moment would burn a debt I think is really well done and like a lot of that comes down to Jasmine Cephas Jones performance and all of that stuff is just like yeah it's really well done but him just being like all good with his brothers and his dad after like all his agitation also what's the like what's the

wrap up on his dad's story like what's going like it really feels like we're missing several beats there. That was like a big we're missing stuff moment for me. So it really feels like there was more, maybe we try to ask Tom King about this, he was not biting. But like it really does feel like there was more Stewart family storyline that didn't make it in. But like the Bernadette moment did

did work. But like his brother's going from like fuck you to like we're all good is I just have some questions about it. But like Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. On the Noah front I killed Hal. It was an interesting experience watching this for the first time because as soon as we, as soon as he says it, and then of course what he will say to John and the rest of this conversation about the two parts of him, what one part wants and what the other part wants.

That was just wonderful. Right away when he says these things, like, you know, there's a part of me that wants to live a normal life, right? And then I get these ideas there in me. I don't even think about them. They just exist. If you could see the inside of my head, you never stop screaming. That was an amazing stretch. Not only is that last line

Just like a complete bar and a banger And we have to think You know the Hal equivalent we were saying Has anybody like done for him what Carrie did When she stood up at the restaurant There's this Noah equivalent of like Who has he been able to say these things to No one since his grandmother died

But there's also like Okay Noah's off the suspect list For killing Hal Because as soon as they did that As soon as they had him say that You checked the remaining time on the episode There was that But it was just like

I think that it eliminated him as a candid it, even though I still have questions again, as we've talked about already, of how the Carrie thing totally lands, I don't think they could have Noah say. I want to be good. I want to try to live a normal life and then actually have killed Hal. It would almost like disqualify John from saying to him. I don't know why I feel that about Noah, but not about Carrie in terms of the choice that John makes at the end. I feel like at the end of the age, just should have been Billy who killed Hal. I think that is where I land candidly. Like I don't think the Carrie

Kary Killinghau totally meshes. I don't think Noah based on what we hear here would have been viable

but Billy could have done it. Billy could have done it. I disagree on the Noah front only because they have

the like please like kill me and please don't let me see it coming. Like in terms of like

I did I thought as soon as Noah said like I did it I was like well Carrie did it you know but like

but I do think I don't think it's like, if there had all been a few minutes left. I don't think it's wholly 12th thing because you can say, I want to be good. I want a good life, but I did this thing. Yeah.

And because my programming took over or whatever, I did this thing, and like, please kill me, much like my grandmother wanted to die, I want to die. You know what I mean? For sure. And then John, I don't think John necessarily would have let him off the hook in that regard. Yeah. I mean, it is very. It would have been a very dark ending

If John's like And now I'm gonna kill a teenager Or feed him to Earl Which again until last episode We were like What if that happens? But yeah I think you're right That's my number one

I'm bummed this didn't happen theory I gotta say Yeah I gotta say It's okay buttercup not being Like when she shot him I'm like is he gonna say And I was like

Oh yeah she shot him in the head He has no time for any final words Other than I love you But like it's okay Buttercup I really did want But like early eating someone I really wanted to have happened So it would have been wonderful

I would have liked I think there's like, I don't know, I guess it feels to me, like, even though it kind of has been parallel in tracks with what John is able to, the forgiveness he grants carry, could have done the same for Noah if Noah had killed him. It feels to me like, I don't know, maybe I'm, maybe this is wrong because in this scene, the show asks us, you know, when Noah says, like, you think that's a good enough reason to murder someone, and it's like a good example of the show's just clear direct language and, like, conveying an idea, right? just because I'm a manhunter, I have to, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I'm gonna go, except that Noah could, it's just the danger ratchet's up if you're like, oh, you actually did this. You're not just, like, plodding, going portal A, portal B, you killed Hal. Harder to be like, and now I'm going to go let you live your life, because it's not just a human capacity for grace and forgiveness and a second chance. It's, like, manhunter risk level through the roof. Yeah. That would be, I think, harder for John to be like, cool.

No, no, that's what I'm saying. I think John would have been like, okay. Yeah. Like, so that's why I was like, it can't be Noah. Well, because there's a version of the show where John kills a kid. I know, but so, but that's, but I think at the end of the day, the show is like. Similar to like what Tom King was talking about in terms of mice and men. Sure.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes. You know what I mean? He'll let him celebrate and then he'll just like sniper shoot him from some, you know, like, while he's taking a to a tostito full a dip. And then he gets shot in the head. You didn't see it coming. It was just enjoying that dip. and delicious full of chock over the fact certainly that could have been a direction i guess i'm saying

more based on where it did actually end and that like uh the desire to pursue the the notion of forgiveness yeah then it it just yeah so carry but i don't know okay should have been really carry did it actually this is a bummer for you for everyone where are you on this i actually don't hate it i don't hate it. I'm struggling a little bit with the question you asked me like four weeks ago or whenever it was of, wait, what is that going to do for our embrace of this idea that like Hal needs to just learn to open himself up to other people? Well, it's the right people. And it's not women. Let's be clear. Because women are crazy. As she says twice in the opening, she's like, I'm a mental patient. I'm crazy. I'm like, okay, Carrie.

Okay. Sports stress, you know. It's real. But open yourself up to your, to your male trainees, not to women, they'll shoot you in the head every time. I... Oh, man. I liked this scene a lot. I also liked heading into it just John asks at Hal, I need you. I need you, man. But what I loved about him not appearing is because, like, previously, Hal is like,

I really only show up, you actually need me. And so him not showing up is like, you can do this yourself. Yes. Trainy. Yes. Also, TikTok, I only have seven minutes left on my... And I just want to hear this and I don't want my presence to influence it in any way. Mostly the first.

Mostly you've got this. I liked this conversation a lot. Me too. I liked. I really loved the performance from Kelly McDonald. The like, you know. Really great. Gualaara great.

The shot, whatever. But then we get, we return back to it where we have her like sort of this pained noise she makes. Yeah. This like hurt of what she's done. Yes. You know, and John sang. like, why'd you ask me the one guy? Yeah.

You know, and, you know, I kind of liked all of this. Even though, like, you know, Noah being a Manhunter and Carrie being high on the suspect list was something we were theorizing, like, for several weeks, it doesn't bother me. And I don't think the episode was really trying to, like, shock, shock. No. You know, sometimes you can get, like, a reveal of something you predicted, like, a month previous or whatever. And the show is like, isn't this cool?

crazy. And I don't really feel like that was the point of this episode. No. So in that way, it doesn't bother me at all. I think a lot of the rich, thematic and emotional veins that you've been highlighting and tapping into really land for me. On that sort of be vulnerable, up yourself up to someone front, I mean, I'm with you on that. It is a tough mixed message there. That it's, I overall really liked this sequence as well. I thought both the John Kerry conversation and the flashes to Carrie and Hal and the bleachers were like pretty gripping to watch. And I think that at the end of the day, in many respects, even though there's a lot that's really affirming and empowering and hopeful about lanterns, there's also a lot that's really heavy and tragic about lanterns. And so it fits this choice in what happens and the kind of, you know, the idea that just in an instance, something could go so horribly wrong, that all works.

Yes. I do think it's interesting, though, because, like, so the ending we get, yeah, as I mentioned Tom King, have you, have we mentioned our interview with him? As I mentioned, this is, spoiler for Gosford Park, the Gosford Parkin. Yeah. Which is like, you know, a couple times in that movie, it's just sort of like, does, does a killer need to be brought to justice? Yeah. If, if there will be other moral consequences or if they're not really to blame for what happened or whatever murder.

in certain stances you choose to interpret from Gosser Park, one of my favorite movies of all time. But what purpose could it possibly serve, which is Kelly McDonald's character, Mary McKeithen's like incredible line that she's repeating from another character, what purpose could it possibly serve? But what's fascinating to me about this is like if the idea is that, and this is what Tom said, if the idea is that Carrie is trapped forever in a prison of her own guilt and despair of like I killed, I got to fuck really hot Kyle Chandler and he was here just like doing whatever I said and I killed him and I don't get that anymore. Yeah.

And emotionally devastated to boot and all the rest. Yeah. Except we end with her just like joyously celebrating in slow-mo this Friday Night Lights moment of like, yay, Noah won the game and he's going to Nebraska. And I'm like, that's... She doesn't look particularly haunted in that in the sequence. I'm just saying. It's an astute observation.

I think I like this a lot. I think for John and for Carrie. I think the thing that makes me sad is the Howl part of it. You know? This is so deeply, deeply tragic for Hal. Even the Carrie fear part of it and how watching her kind of lose herself in this fit of terror fits, I think, with, that doesn't feel like to me it undermines the lessons about embracing fear. It's like the idea that Carrie was like, not only have I not told Hal or anyone else about this, I haven't even talked to Noah about it, what the isolation of a problem. burden of a secret and a worry can do to you.

Tara, take the wheel. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. And I really loved from, you know, John, not only his compassion for Carrie. And I think Carrie is the one who is going to want to, you know, or feel compelled to kind of do a version of House penance and work to show contrition and to work through her guilt and shame. I think John is like, go live your life. Just like I'm telling Noah to go live his life. You know, I thought that him thinking back to Bernadette and Bernadette's fear waiting for him. Which we got to see that sequence where she has him walk home alone, which she's sitting. And I've had plenty to say about. But like when she has him walk home alone and we see her.

Yes. Terrified. Yes. And but he didn't see, he didn't get to see that as a child. But I mean, this is the kind of story that we love, which is like the, the. And it goes back to that that letter idea. inside of the, not really the show, but the lyrics from the Queen song, which is just sort of like, you won't understand this until you're an adult. Right. Like, he had this idea of who his mom was and all the things that she did to him because he couldn't see those moments that she was terrified. But as an adult, he can understand them and empathize with them and sort of extrapolate them. And I keep this one section for the musical Hamilton, and this is because it's Jasmine Seifis Jones here, but like forgiveness. this like really important choral moment,

but like that he has that grace inside of him. I agree with you is tremendously important. And his ability, his healing ability to forgive for us, the viewer, for him our protagonist is more important than the forgiven. For sure. And like he has taken a stand and drawn a line and charted a new course, but also found the compassion. And then in finding that for Bernadette, he has given that gift to Carrie of imparting that to hers.

Like that, I thought that was really amazing and beautiful. I think that on the carry Noah front and the, you know, have I raised a monster and why did you call me back here? There's the like also, you know, the Noah part, the did I raise a monster element is what's centered in the conversation. But of course, there's also the like, I deserve to be found out. There's a part of me that thinks I deserve to be found out. You know, there's some of the comps to like Zoe going back to the planet or, pal going back to Rushville, like, I need to think about what I did and I want somebody to know what I did on some level. But what I was really struck by was like, I thought back to the,

we were kind of... Tell the hologram. I want him to know it was me. I want him to know it was me. We got to get some different, some different headdresses in there. Um, we were, you know, we talked in episode four about the very odd, what am I supposed to tell Noah a moment when Zoe died? And now, like, that's, that stands out in a new light of like, she doesn't... mother. What am I supposed to tell him? Who's going to tell him he's a manhunter? But then the thing here is like, we're thinking, no, as a manhunter.

John's thinking, no, as a manhunter. Howell's thinking, no is a manhunter. Though very touched that Howell's not like, I got to kill this kid. He was like, let's all go together and get out of here. Very sweet. The scurs are thinking no as an ace quarterback. That's exactly right. Carrie's thinking about her version of, if you could see the inside of my head,

you'd never stop screaming. Jordan Boy's legacy, it's in the blood. She says, I didn't want to pass on my shitty jeans. She didn't say he's a manhunter, and I'm worried about that. She said, I didn't want to pass on my shitty jeans. She didn't want to have kids in the first place is what she said. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So that was devastating, right?

Just devastating. So, again, I really liked all of this for Carrie and John. How could we want it for hell? It's crushing. This is why the hologram needs to come back to season two. So you continue to collect some dubs as a medial. tour. That's what we get in here.

Lanterns United, mostly. Okay? Uh-huh. We turn the line on for Guy Gardner. Just another kick in the gold tooth for Guy Gardner. Kick in the gold dick. Guy having to see the penis spray-bainted on the side of the beacon was so funny. Oh, my God.

Oh, my God. He's like, you take the stars have fun. I'll take the dirt. This is where we get the title of the episode. Yes. When guys like, is that how? ring and he goes, no, it's mine. Great delivery from Aaron Pierre.

He was just so good. I'm not there, Aaron Moore, Guy, you are. Incredible. And then Guy threatens John with an army. And then John threatens to expose the Manhunter's secret with the, if they search their hearts code. Hysterical. So I guess John knows that the Guardians made the Manhunters, but no one else knows that.

I mean, Guy Gardner doesn't, John knows Guy Gardner doesn't need to know. Right. Yeah. So nobody else knows this. So he's like, I'll tell everyone you made the Manhunters and the manhunters are evil and you're bad. I'm going to tell the squirrel. I'm going to tell the planet. Living secret.

Yeah, exactly. Mogul! Yeah. You've got a crystal heart. Just go check Leanna's mantle. You'll find the proof you need. Yeah. And her pride, her spot of pride.

Yeah. She took her little kid gloves. She put it in a little box and put on the mantle. Oh, man. All right. John asked how what he would do. Oh, you know what on the guy front? Like when John said he died a hero and that's all you need to know, you loved it.

I mean, it's real like, real Harry Snape, like one of them was the bravest man I ever knew. Kind of like, you know, the fact that you don't get to say that to the person directly. But it was just, it was really, like, heartening to hear, I mean, the moment that Hal and John are about to share is bigger. But, like, yeah, to hear, I don't know, just to hear John, John and Hal have talked so much shit about each other across the season. hear him defend Hal to guide. Would you say this is a love story? I would say it was a love story.

And especially just the word hero, it carries so much weight for John. It really does, right? So like, and it was a thing that, obviously Hal no longer thought that he deserved. Beautiful moment. Beautiful. John asked Hal what he would do.

And this is where we get that line. My gut tells me you're going to be better at this job than I ever was. Oh, man. You're ready. How healing. Do you think we should all have the ability to talk to a hologram of our,

parrars from 20 years ago and have them say all the things we ever wanted them to say. That's what hologram technology should be used for. Not for, not for, like, Kim Kardashian's dad to show up at a Kanye concert, but like for us to have some therapeutic healing moments, I think. I'm inclined to agree. Yeah. However. Not AI programmed. A human has to write this script. This was, we saw Tony, you know, working through with his parents, Barf, it gave us Mysterio. It's not great. So that's a risk. For the Quentinbacks out there, it's a risk that they could become super villains because of how we use that tech. Though it is an appealing thing. Depends how cool the sunglasses are. That's true. Edith, where are you?

What are you up to? Speaking of accessories, most guys can't handle jewelry. You're lucky. You're slim fingers like a girl. Man, shut the fuck up. This was so great. Don't be afraid to be afraid. And then Hal puts on a little bit of theater to get John to say, I love you.

It's a ghost ending. We've already referenced ghost a couple times. But if you rewatched the ending of Ghost, this is missing Unchained Melody. playing this is missing the ditto stuff. This is missing all of the tears in Demi Moore's eyes. But like otherwise, it's a one-to-one match. It's a perfect fit. Leaving on a, I love you, Junior.

So coming back to Junior, like we mentioned that in the previous episode, the Hallogram had been saying trainee, which just felt wayless patronizing the Junior. But for Junior to come back here. Junior, which means a lot to me because of Indiana Jones the last year's save. Of course, yeah. But for Junior to come back here.

Without that derisive sting to it. Yes, as a term of endearment. Yeah. And to get to enable Kyle Chandler to leave us on a wink? Oh, my God. What a fucking gift. Only to come back for season two. There we go.

There to dream. And like the fact that Hal, OG Hal, Hal Prime had switched to John, you know? Because of the urgency of the moment. Junior. I mean, my gut tells me you're going to be better at this job than I ever was. into the I Love You was almost unbearable in the best possible way as like catharsis at the end of this shared journey, you know, to think

about in episode three, I don't need a fucking sidekick, right? Episode four, you know, and then in episode five of a Hal saying, you know, you're never going to replace me. Junior derisive, right? And if you're training, we hear what John said to Leanna in episode four, right? Because I've worked my entire fucking life for it, The Rings, always been mine. That asshole's just keeping it warm. That was venom.

Right? That was all around jealousy and fear. And fear and venom. And this year from Hal to John is love, as we will hear in a moment. But then I found myself really remembering how our Hal had also, as we talked about a lot last week, and it touched us so deeply, like, he had also chosen John. They didn't get to experience that together. But the fact that John was like, he left me that key. He knows what birds mean to me or that Carrie got to say to him, like, you know, big fan.

Like, Hallogram has gone on a journey and they have gone on a journey together. of like progress and self-actualization and candor and honesty and openness in their relationship that like our original Hal and John were not able to share. But our original Hal did have this like love for John in there too. It was just obscured by all of those streaks of fear. But it's also this thing, the way we get in our own way. Yes. And we talked about this last week when we were watching the hologram sort of like trained John and we're like, this is what it could have been if Hal was not sort of calcified over with all of his fear. And we're like, and we're like, this is what it could have been. of Hal was not sort of calcified over with all of his fear and heartbreak that came from

the Sinestro betrayal, which once again was a little kind of glossed over. Yeah, I mean, I think don't be afraid to be afraid is like such a, the way that fear was invoked repeatedly across the season as a taunt, right? Are you afraid? Yeah. The challenge, are you afraid, but also like, you're fucking terrified right now, right at the table, etc. Like, the fact that that can be granted there, not only is a pearl of wisdom, especially

because of the way they joke about the, oh, my pearls. Oh, my pearl is. Oh, interesting now. You're asking me for my wisdom. But, like, as a gift. Also, just, like, he's been coach-tailoring this whole time. I know. He just, like, really coach-tailored his way out of this show.

You know what I mean? He really did. Again, only to come back for season two. Dare to Dream, guys. All right. I thought the I love you was just incredible. Beautiful. Incredible.

Beautiful. A new motto, a new oath. Yes. Right. Hero. Hero is the song that plays, this is not my favorite needle drop we've gotten. It just felt a little on the nose for me personally.

John leaves Maggie the money. Maggie, talk about a storyline that didn't end up working. Not very important or interesting. We get the Stewart Family Union, which I've already talked about. And then we get the new oath. In brightest day and darkest night, I'll embrace my fear, I'll do what's right. I choose this ring.

I choose this fight in service to this lantern's light. I had chills while listening to that. And to remind people, the original motto is, in brightest day and blackest night, no evil shall escape my sight, let those who worship evils might be where my power green lantern's light, right? So, like, moving away from this idea of, like, evil,

because, like, we don't live in a binary, you know what I mean? And that's what, like, that's what so much of what John's interactions with Noah and with Carrie and with Bernadette are about, like, what's in the gray and what's in the middle. Right. You know what I mean? And so, right.

I think all of this is. is so strong. I love what Tom said to us about, like, being chosen, chosen versus making a choice. I loved that. I thought that was really good. And then I also just think in terms of, like, the guardian system led by the Lillianna or whatever you want to call it, the way that the guardians have, we talked about this before. I think I referred to it as like a leash. There's a leash that they have on your power because they own the rings and they own the lanterns. And so for him to, like, find this decommission ring and get this spookily forged lantern. But, like, he's got the tools of power now.

Yes. And they were not given to him by guardians. And so to sort of, like, break that myth, that lie that the guardians have told all of the lanterns, which is, like, you need us because you need us for your lantern. You need us for your ring. And for him just be like, actually, I'm going to make my own is fantastic. It's yet another way for John to take something that had been there, but, like, reclaim it as his own. You know, the season long, well, what's the worthier path to the ring?

The ring choosing you or you having to work for it, interview, try. You know, all of these, like, the fact that Hal and John can have the I love you moment, the fact that that friendship, that mentor, mentee, relationship, partnership, trust was so hard one and hard earned, right? So, like, you have Sean taking that different path to the ring kind of in a way, if you just looked at the core facts of it, maps on to the whole, like, I didn't get chosen by it. I had to go work for it and earn it. But he did it on his terms, right? And that period. It was just like a third, a third. Yeah. Yeah. And I just love that. I was already kind of crying from the, I was teary out from the I love you, but then the oath. Like, I mean, I think Aaron Pierre's performance was so wonderful here. Really good. And, you know, you get to see him, like, fly for the first time. And all of that was just amazing.

Across the lantern logo in the sky. Yeah. And, like, the Oath itself, this thing that, like, in the core, everybody recites and this thing that is, like, a shared element. For John, you know, yeah, he's got Hell's decommissioned ring and this Sinestro-forged worrying, like, he licked his lips with hunger when he thought John was about. about to charge the ring, maybe not good. Is he ever going to have a suit?

I wonder. Is he going to show up in the Superman movie with a suit? Maybe. I mean, he did, he revered the suit in a way, but like, you know, now. Endemode making him suit? I don't know. I mean, that would be wonderful. Yeah.

Crossover event. That would be great. You know, just like the centering of fear inside of the oath could not have been a more perfect conclusion to the season. I really couldn't have. Oh, embrace my fear. It's not, it's fear-centered, which it's all been fear-centered, but that it's not a shameful thing. It's not a lie you have to tell, not just other people, right?

But like yourself. Not a lie you have to tell yourself. It's just a part of what makes you human and a part then of what can make you a hero. Beautiful message for John. Beautiful message for everybody watching it. I was really great. I was talking to a friend of mine earlier this week about sort of like, I don't know, personal stressed or angst or whatever I was feeling and how I, like, didn't want anyone to see that. And she was like, who are you being perfect for?

Like who are you being perfect for? What is the point of that? And so like this idea of, yeah, are you so perfect that I can shoot an apple off your head and then we go get a burger after? And, you know, you've been programmed to be perfect your whole life. But like all of the consiguous like fractures inside of you that that causes and how like deep inside of you is going to be shame. Right. to be anything but that unflinching me. And so, like, I honestly, I'm not the first person

say this isn't any revelation, but I do think that shame is like the most toxic. You know, what is shame if not fear with his hat on? But like, you know, is the most toxic thing that exists in our culture. And so we're taught to feel it all the time. We're taught to compare ourselves to other people. We're taught to hide our vulnerabilities.

And I'm just saying, open yourself up. That's right. Just not to Kelly McDonald's. She'll shoot you in the head. But other than that... It's a pretty good life mantra, I think, right there. Be vulnerable. You solved it.

And that's it. That's the end of lanterns. Is there... Do we have anything for Theory Corner? Anything you want to say about a potential season two? What do you think? I mean, obviously, there's just like the overall question of what will be made and when, but like, do you want season two? If Kyle Taylor said it, I do.

This is not a knock on Aaron Pier. I'm like, I'm really excited for him to show up in the Supervan movie. I'm really excited he is like Earth Screen Land. In turn, I, like, I love him. I think he's great. But the show's magic is Hal and John. Yeah. And I, you know, like, I don't know what Kyle Chandler wants to do.

I don't know if they feel like it will be a storytelling cheat for them to bring Hal back. But, like, I just think there's a way to do it where we don't feel like they just undid everything, hand waved away all, all of the cost of this. I still think that, like, goodbye would feel poignant and important. For sure. I think the braver thing to do is to not bring Hal back, but I think in terms of like what I want, I want Hal and John together in season two. Me too. I mean, they were just magical together.

They really, really were. So I will miss it if we never get more. And like, you know, we've always loved Kyle Chandler. Shout out the early edition heads. You know what I mean? Like, we love Kyle Chandler. But I do think this is the first project since Friday Night Lights that has really allowed Kyle Chandler to do. do the full magnitude of what he can do charisma wise.

Like he is one of the most charismatic people to ever be on screen. He did a series of film roles that I don't think really allowed him to showcase that. This happened to a lot of our great prestige TV actors, you know, like Cranston too, where they will just like go do things and you're like, I know you're incredible. But you're not doing that right now. You don't have to just be Coach Taylor because I don't think Hal is Coach Taylor. But it allows him to tap into this thing that no one else can do as well as he can. I know.

It's just amazing. It's truly magical. And so, like, I want Kyle Chandler working forever as long as he wants to forever. But I want him to be in projects that allow him to be as much as he can be. And this is that, you know, at the end of the day. And so, yes, I want Lantern season two, but I do want Kyle Chandler in it. Look, John himself said it. Hal, I need you.

I need you, man. He could do, John can do anything. And you believe it, you can achieve it. You know what I mean? Quite agree. So that's what I want. What do you want? I'm in a very similar place.

I would like them to keep making lanterns because I thought it was really good. But this season also does feel so contained and complete and wonderful. Yeah, I don't know. I kind of like increasingly, yeah. I just have to check his CV. One exception, game night. Oh, sure, of course. It's iconic. It's like Friday Night's Game Night this are the three like places that I really feel like Kyle Chandler got to be full of Kyle. Clearly you're not watching Mayor of Kingsdown and Bloodline. But uh, I watched Bloodline. Oh, don't tell me I didn't watch Bloodline because I watched it and I was like, this is fine. But it's not the best of what all of these people can be. Certainly not. Certainly not. I'm not ready to think about hell. I'm not. Definitely not Godzilla versus Kong. Definitely not Godzilla King of the Monsters. Definitely not.

first man, definitely not Manchester by the C, definitely not Carol. Like, I enjoyed him all of those roles, but there was just like, you know, a lot of people like Super 8. I'm not a huge super person, but like, you know, Zero Dark 30. Like he was doing a lot of these like, Wolf of Wall Street is like close. Yeah. It's pretty close. Yeah. But it's not this. I mean, this is special. And this is what we deserve. Actually, we don't deserve it, but I want it anyway. Same. I think we did it. Yeah. Fun season of TV. Sheesh. I want to I want to give you your flowers and say you have been a lanterns believer from the beginning and I was a lanterns skeptic and I love to be led by you. You know, we all won because lanterns was good.

Lanterns was good. We did all win. And what if Vision Quest is also really good? That would be fantastic. I believe it will be. I believe it will be. I'm not expecting Vision Quest to like, you know, deliver the profundity that is available here in lanterns. Well, I don't know.

Some. Yeah. But like in a more candy-colored sort of Marvel kind of way. Sure. You know what I mean? So like I'm not expecting that Vision Quest is going to be like sort of on par with what lanterns can be. But for what it is. Oh yes.

You know, in Wanda Vision, like absolutely. We loved it. Crushed me. Let's talk about it next week, shall we? I can't fucking wait. Okay. Who are we thinking today? We're thinking.

Oh boy. Carlos Chirboga back from vacation hitting the ground running. Thank you to Scott Lee. Number one lanterns fan. Scott loves lanterns. He loves lanterns. Jacob Cornette. Legend.

Our Jane and Rame Capal. King. Show me a dinner on. Just a prince among men. Tom King, didn't we mention we talked about? Oh, man. Mallory Rubin. Joanna Robinson.

You know, the folks at Ralph Lauren, double R.L. Who made that jacket that Hal wore, incredible. I've been keeping an eye. It came back in stock in Navy and then immediately sold out again, devastating. I bought a pair of Ralph Lauren plaid pants for my Christmas London trip. Incredible. I just got really excited about it. I just felt like that was like one of the Christmas year things.

I support you fully. I've been buying a lot of Ralph Lauren. It's pretty, it's addicting. Good luck. I did get this on Poshmark at a deep discount, but we'll see. We'll see what happens to me in the future. I love Poshmart personally. I'm a discount kind of person. All right. Thank you to everyone. We'll see you soon. Bye. This family is on the brink of Civil War. Mobland. The hit original series is now streaming on Paramount Plus. We are the Hortigans. Don't know the net? And Google us. From the underworld of Guy Ritchie Do you want to step up the ladder? I want Karmat Dead. Starring Tom Hardy, Pierce Brosnan and Helen Mirren.

Do I have to do everything myself? You want to want! I'll give you a... Mobland, new season is now streaming on Paramount Plus.