House of R - ‘Percy Jackson and the Olympians’ Episodes 3 and 4 Deep Dive

Episode Date: January 9, 2024

Mal and Jo are here to dive into Episodes 3 and 4 of 'Percy Jackson and the Olympians.' They begin with their initial thoughts on these two episodes and the general reviews the show has gotten (8:20). Then they dive into each episode, discussing the journey we’re on with each character, new characters that appear, and much more (20:09). Later on they talk about some Easter eggs and some book spoilers that could potentially show up in future episodes (2:12:53). Hosts: Mallory Rubin and Joanna Robinson Producer: Isaiah Blakely Senior Producer: Steve Ahlman Additional Production: Arjuna Ramgopal Social: Jomi Adeniran Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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See terms at Fandul.com slash predict slash bonus dash offer. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable internet means everything for your business. And even this podcast, that's why I trust Spectrum Business to keep companies of all sizes connected with internet, advanced Wi-Fi, phone, TV, mobile services, plus 24-7 U.S.-based support. Millions of business owners already trust Spectrum business. So visit Spectrum.com slash business to learn more. Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. Monsters can't be avoided entirely. They're more common than you think.

The trick is to spot them first before they spot you. But it isn't your power exactly that draws them. It's more complicated than that. I smell fear. That's bees. What a monster senses kind of depends on the monster. Some are better at sensing your inadequacy.

Some, your need for glory. Your shame. It's important to remember that if you've ever got to confront one. Wherever your armor is weakest, that monster is probably coming right for it. Nothing will stop them. Not even death. Two years, the same us. I'm Joanna Robinson and joining me today.

I didn't make her sit in the back of the bus where it reeks the bathroom. I let her sit up here with me. It is Mallory. Rubin. Hi, Mallory. How you doing? Joanna, there is no way this is what sacred smells like. Of one mind and one heart already in the new year.

I love that for us. We are here to talk to you today about two more episodes of Percy Jackson. This episode is a little delayed, and that's because I was devastatingly ill. You know how Percy is all pasty and pale and sweaty at the end of episode four? That was me on Friday. Just needed someone to splash some fountain water on you, you know? Yeah. Some absolutely crystal clear.

Some nectar. Fountain water. Get some of my mouth while you're at it, please. Please do. All right. So this is a little delayed, but we're here to talk about episode three and episode four. Episode three, we visit the garden, gnome, emporium, episode four, I plunged my death. You haven't watched those two episodes.

What are you doing here? Go watch them and come back and listen to the podcast. before we get into the particulars of the episodes, of the depth at which we are going to dive into them, et cetera. I just wanted to let you know. I'll repent. That is a thrill and an honor to kick off this new year with you. I'm so delighted to be here.

The thrill and the honor is all mine. I've missed you. A couple weeks away. It's too long. Always nice to recharge at the end of the year. But I longed for your presence. and now this Zoom recording is reaching up like a swirling arm tendril, a urine tendril from the Midwestern river to grasp you,

to grieve us back where we belong. Plunge you down into the depths. All right. The found water. It wasn't healing. We needed that river yearning tendril and here we are together again. Yeah, we needed it sort of just really almost yellow and cloudy as the old Mississippi might be. Okay.

Anyway, let's get back on track. A very muddy green. There's a lot going on in all sorts of feeds around the Ringer network, right? We, because of my aforementioned pasty pale illness last week, we're hitting you three times this week. We have a hype draft episode in the middle of the week to give you sort of like a competitive preview of the upcoming year. of all the geek content. We've got a couple of guests coming on for that. We're really excited for that.

Collaborative preview. Collaborative competitive preview. Know yourself. Okay. And then on Friday, Mallory and I went back also to discuss all of Echo that is getting a whole season drop this week. So we'll be doing the whole Somali on Friday of Echo. And then the Midnight Boys will also be back at some point this week to do something. We're not sure yet.

What? That might be. But they will be here. Their comfort, their presence, their joy. There's also a button mash this week, things that they're hyped for in 2024. Malibin, how can folks keep track of all of that? Three House of Our episodes in one week? How they're supposed to keep on top of all of that?

Thanks for asking. My recommendation in this new year, 2004, is, to follow the pod. Follow House of Art on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. Follow all of our sister pods. Follow the ringerverse. Follow trial by content. Follow prestige TV.

Follow along on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. While you're at it, follow the ringerverse on the social media platform of your choosing. The ringerverse is on Instagram, Twitter, TikTok. Always fun stuff happening on the social feeds. So check that. out and of course you can send your emails you can send your emails about percy about the things you're excited for in 2004 about echo after you watch the five episode binge drop in the middle of the

week to hobbits and dragons at gmail.com that is hobbits and dragons at gmail.com at gmail.com. Should we start a competitor for gmail that's just called email? Email.com at email.com. I think at email.com is probably a good thing to be on the lookout for for the scam. This is from email.com. Hi, I'm reaching out from email.com. Excellent. So the spoiler warning today is all of Greek mythology ever.

Okay. That's a thing. Fraud. But to narrow it down more particularly, yes, we have read some Percy Jackson. Yes, we do know some book spoilers. Yes, we will be talking. about some book spoilers, but not until the end of the episode. So this discussion will be informed by the chapters. I am offered a quest. I ruin a perfectly good bus. We visit the

garden gnome emporium. We get advice from a poodle. I plunged to my death and a smidge of I become a known fugitive. That's the book stuff that is on the table today. But anything beyond that in the book, we're going to try to keep to that book section at the end in case folks are haven't read the books or keeping themselves pure and as unclean as the Mississippi River. Okay. Episode 3, Visit the Garden of Emporium, directed by Anders Engstrom, written by Jonathan E. Steinberg and Monica Ousoo-Breen. Monica was supposed to do a Buffy Vampire Slayer reboot series at some point in the past, and it never materializes, but I have always had my eye on her because of that. And then episode four, I plunged to my death, directed again by Anders. written by Jonathan Seidberg and Joe Trace, I believe, is how you pronounce that name.

We were just guessing these before we started recording. Episode four, episode three is a nice little chunky episode. Episode four was a zippy fast one. Zippet. A real quick one. Quick on. That's Bobby B would say. It's all Bobby Frippian.

Yeah. Quick one. So, you know, it's nice that we're doing these together. Let's go, shall we, to our opening snobacco. snapshot. So I just want to get your quick thoughts. When we recorded our first episode, like people were not really, we didn't have a lot of fan or critical. We had some critical feedback. And all the fan feedback, weren't really sure how it was going to hit. So I just want to get your quick thoughts on the Percy Jackson TV show Phenomenas or your anecdotal experience.

How is this hitting? Feels like a smash. to me. What do you think? Seems like people love it. People love the show. Flat out people love the show, which is awesome. The book readers love it. Yeah. And we talked a lot, Joe, like in the pod we did on episodes one and two, about the limitations slash outright failures of the film adaptation and how even by like the relative

comparative standard of a book. fan base that is eager for an adaptation that honors the source material, the Percy fans were rabid for something that felt like it really connected to. Got it. And understood, yes, like the spirit of the text and the spirit of the exercise. And, you know, this is actually an interesting set of episodes because there are, especially in the third episode with Medusa, which we'll get to in more detail, obviously, like a number of changes. There are plenty of things that are different page to screen, but those differences feel purposeful and intentional. And like, does every single thing in the show to date work perfectly? Will everything in the eventual run of the show work perfectly?

Of course not. And that's not the point. It's that there is broadly a note of satisfaction and a feeling of like a successful rendering of the thing that so many like legions of readers have loved for so long. And that's awesome. Like as as lovers ourselves of many stories that have had varying degrees of success when brought to the big or small strain. It's like a painful thing when a story that you love does not feel like it's rendered either in full or in like the way that this would be so meaningful to so many. So it's just really cool to be here where Percy is in front of so many people who have loved it for so long and also is reaching new people who don't have that history with Percy and

who are excited to like fall into the world and discover these characters and this fascinating and intricate and mythologically laden and fueled universe for the first time. So it's been a really fun four weeks. I'm sad that we only have four episodes left, but I'm also really energized for the back half of the season. I can't wait to see how the final four episodes come to life. And like I'm really eager for the continuation of this series in future seasons. How about you?

How are you feeling about the response so far? I'm like, I'm thrilled at the way it's going over with not only like, as you said, with book readers, with new fans. with like adults. Like it doesn't feel like, yeah, this is a story about kids and it is appropriately like kiddish in nature, but it doesn't feel like a show only for kids. I know a lot of, a lot of people are like taking it seriously, which I think is great. The fact that as you alluded to the Medusa episode, episode three, got this like great, very thoughtful, like thorough write-up and variety about like the adaptive changes. you know, and that's not something that I think most Disney Plus shows get.

So, yes, there's like a huge built-in fan base for the show because of the readers. But that doesn't necessarily mean we're going to have like an elevated conversation around it. And so the fact that there's like an elevated conversation around this show makes me so happy because the material absolutely deserves it. There's plenty of material that deserves it that doesn't get it. And so I'm really happy that this show is getting it. and yeah to your point I I can list so many shows or films or TV shows where someone has gotten the privilege of adapting a book series

that I love and has just just like you watch it I'm like I don't even know that you read this or if you did you just didn't get it you didn't understand it and that can be so just like calamitous like so disappointing You know, you're just sort of like, I don't know first, well, I know the first maybe three things about writing a TV show. I don't know most things about ready of a TV show, but like, call me, call someone, call anyone who like understood this book so they can explain it to you. And that you just don't get that sense. I've heard from, I spent like not too much time, but like a little bit of time sort of poking around the Percy Jackson subreddit just to like see how like the hardcore readers were feeling.

and there's just like the few like I'm trying to adjust to this casting choice pushback that I've seen but but I think that is just going to come with time if you have had like an idea in your head of what a character is and either it looks different than you imagine or something like that but for these like storytelling changes

and choices I have not seen much pushback at all and in fact it seems like there's a celebration of Yeah. Again, what it means to be able to like update and tweak and refine and not just feel completely bound by the letter of the law of the original text if you are still maintaining the tether to the heart of what people love about the character of the world, etc. On this front, I meant to mention I felt really like a big dipshit when we did our first pod for not shouting out that our beloved colleagues, Zach Cram, who is a long time Percy fan and scholar, wrote a great piece on Theringer.com. What a great website about this. question of adapting this world and like what the movies miss that the TV show is more successfully grappling with and wrapping its arms around. So that was a preview for the season, but still, even though we are here at the midseason point, if you have not yet checked out Zach's piece, please do. It's a wonderful read. I was like sitting here being like, why is Mallory

being such a dipshit? Why isn't she mentioning this? Our Seder. It's terrible. Zach, leading us on a stater path through the wilderness with Naria mention your own house of harm my goodness but now the hamburger scent is wafting my way and I have been triggered to recall the thing I wanted to say actually that's not how that food works it lulls you into a false sense of security and a dream like state leaving you vulnerable but glass actually that's a trap and then in terms of these two episodes, episode three and four, I just want to get your quick overview. I'm calling these two episodes like the mommy issues episodes. I talk about daddy issues all the time. Time for some mommy issues. How did you feel about three and four? I am really enjoying myself. I would say

that if we're kind of keeping a real time power ranking, reserve the right to change my mind at any point as always usual, House of our caveats. You know the fine print. Titles, titles, titles, you know the damn words. Was not banking on multiple Robert Barathean references. Yeah, and here we are. Percy Jackson's podcast. Maybe this is Bobby B's year.

I would say that episode four was my least favorite of the season so far. But structurally, I found it intriguing and kind of energizing. And like this, you know, the nature of the structure of the books, And of course, and Zach wrote about this in his piece as well, like the tradition of Greek mythology and the telling of a myth, you know, these journeys and installments and the beat of the quest that you're focusing on each week. It's very easy to see now how the season will be structured from here. And so I thought episode four was like clarifying in that respect. It's just to be hiding about episode three and episode four in tandem, episodes one and two, I think were just such a successful opening note for the journey at large. Episode three was a, that gave us a lot to chew on in ways that were specific to the plot of that episode and much more broad in terms of the thematic ambition of the story.

So three was one that I really enjoyed and found fascinating and pretty ambitious. But overall, I've liked them all. How about you? I loved three. I think three is the best that we've seen so far. They're all good. Three is the best. Four is not my least favorite because I think we're just growing and deepening the thematic.

nature of to your point a lot of the stuff that comes up in three is echoed again in four and so then I find that I find it not like oh I've already seen this but just sort of like as a character is then having to sort of view their world worldview informed by the adventure they just had and bringing it into this current adventure a lot of I mean it was it was a short episode um we're on the train where in the arch that's all like we're doing um but There is some of that like, The foul, noxious waters of Mississippi. The old Mississippi.

I don't know. Listen, Mississippi might be a wonderful place to swim. It just, you know, tell that to the people who put it on screen. But the, um, the, I really liked episode for. And I just, I liked it, too. Just overall it had, I know you didn't. I know you're not saying you disliked it. But I just think, I think, I also think the performances from our young

trio. I think Walker was, because I had already seen him something like Walker was sort of like a hit from the start. And I think, um, the other two of our core, um, group here, uh, Leah Jeffries and Ariens and Audrey are just getting better and better as we go as they, I don't know what order they shot everything in, but like, I don't know. I just feel like they're, their combined chemistry, not just as the characters are getting to know each other, but as the actors are playing off each other is getting better and better. So I saw just like kind of growing. That was the highlight of episode four for me was specifically the it's the the Annabeth and Percy have worked through their shit but still have more shit to work through and are forging a bond and a sense of understanding in real time. And there are,

you know, we'll hit some of them as we go and we'll probably hit more in future weeks. But there are some differences in the the foundation of that relationship and dynamic in particular. Annabeth and Percy and like how much friction is there and why and how much are they talking about it in what way and like some slight adaptive tweaks there from from page to screen and so to see them forging like a sense of shared understanding or being willing to like consider the other person's perspective in real time in the fourth episode was was a meaningful thing like not only satisfying to see in in the context of that episode but obviously you know this is a this is our trio like this is who we're spending a lot of time with here.

So it was really cool to see that. I enjoyed that in episode four for sure. Also, just on the effects front, the chimera was a step up. Let's just say that. It was a step up from the Furies in the first two episodes. So that was satisfying as well. There's also a lot of hiding the ball on the chimera.

You know what I mean? Yeah, you're right, you're right. Okay. Let's get into the deep dive. Okay, episode one, Lover on a scale of 1 to 10, how excited were you to see that I made a sports reference here by calling this section Oracle Arena?

I'm thrilled. Proud? Dare I say swelling with pride. I put the bar on the floor so that you can easily hop over it and give me praise. So thank you so much for that. I love sports. I do not sure. More than sports, I love prophecy.

We are in prophecy, corner. And we're going to pull up, we only get half of the prophecy at the beginning and then we get a little bit more later, but let's just like pull it all up here at the top and talk about it here, the whole thing. And it goes a little something like this. This is the prophecy that starts off episode three. You shall go west and face the God who has turned. And you shall find what was stolen and see it safely returned. You shall be betrayed by the one who calls you friend and fail to save what matters most in the end. It's worrying. Okay. It's worrying. So some book comp stuff to say that even if the circumstances are different, like it's a poker game in the book, this is a very similar. The prophecy is almost precisely word for word. I believe that like an article is different or a proposition is different. Other than that, we're doing like word for word prophecy stuff from the. the book. There's plenty of stuff we can't say and we could maybe say for our book spoiler conversation later. But I think just it's important to underline a couple book context things here. One, when the Oracle says fail to save what matters most in the end, Percy in the book here is now thinking about this quest through the lens of failure, starting through the lens of failure. There's a quote for the book where he says, what kind of Oracle would send me on a quest and tell me,

oh, by the way, you'll fail. And Kairn, like us, was a Greek mythology kid and knows that prophecies can be very tricksy. And points out that the oracle's words often have double meanings. Don't dwell on them too much. The truth is not always clear until events come to pass. This is one of the most delightful things about prophecy corner. It's the reason why, if we ever do prophecy tropes course, we're going to have to do like three of them. Because prophecies are like a five parter.

It's a month long extravagant, though. Who knows? But like, profies are often like crosser puzzle clues. Like they're, they're tricksy by nature. They are trying to fool you. There's double meanings and everything. Who knows what we're talking about here? We have a sense because we've read a book or two.

But, you know, what do you want to say about this prophecy, how it frames everything for Percy, etc.? Yeah. I think that this is obviously like going to be an ongoing area of assessment and discussion. So we'll work to be restrained. But I think the note that you're striking is the crucial one here. I love the, not only that you cited that Chiron passage from the books, the oracle's words often have double meanings. But, you know, if we zoom ahead, like Annabeth is given that idea to voice elsewhere in these episodes when she says to Percy, the heart.

you work to understand, the harder it gets to understand. Sometimes you just got to let it come to you when it's ready. So one of the things that I love about the role and function of prophecy in the Percy Jackson universe, and like I don't think it's a spoiler to say, this is not the only prophecy. And the story, we will be, we will be dealing with more prophecies and other prophecies. And prophecy is very central to this world. And of course, it would be because prophecy is very entwined with the role of myth, right? And the idea of the quest. And so what I love about that Chiron moment in the book,

what I love about Annabeth getting to voice that in the show is that, like, this is something that is naturally going to be on our minds as readers or viewers. Well, like, what does it mean? How can we parse to your point? The nature of the language, the potential riddle. But also, like, you know, we talk about probably like 50 million. times beyond measure, beyond count with like our old Val Cersie

Lannister, for example, like a number of characters. One of our favorite things to track is like how can a person maybe misinterpret something? How can you bring about something that you were seeking to avoid? This is like a fantasy story staple. There's a reason we want to do somewhere between three to fifty trips.

There's a whole episode on self-fulfilling. Self-fulfilling prophecy is like the best kind of prophecy. And so like it's not just on our minds. as readers or viewers, the characters are being asked to think about it and to keep it in the foreground of their consideration set. And so you have something like Percy walking in to see the Oracle and saying, I was told a quest isn't a quest until you've said so,

or in the book, only the Oracle can determine this idea of destiny. Like Percy is literally just like, what's my destiny? Can someone tell me my destiny? You know, and that fate, Annabeth will say later in the book or fate, fate or luck, right? It's so, elemental to their lives. And so for them to be cognizant, just as we are, of like, am I thinking about this the wrong way? Am I maybe courting something that I actually would like to avoid because I'm so hung up on what this might mean? That's just a really cool thing, a subtext to see like made text. I really love that. And I think what's also really fun to track, a reason we didn't talk about this a lot, I think, in our coverage of the first two episodes, because there was a lot to get through.

but like Percy as a character similar to Harry Potter, a number of other similar characters is like he's so new to this world. So like Annabeth and for even longer Grover have lived in a world of that where prophecy is just like a thing and everyday thing. And so she has a better understanding of it and Grover would have an even, you know, because she has lived in this world. whereas, you know, Percy as audience insert is learning all these things along with us. So, like, what I like about these two episodes is they bring up these elements of the prophecy a couple times and it feels really natural.

Like Percy revealing the back half of the prophecy to his companions or bringing it up again at the top of four just be like, are we spending enough time talking about this thing? I'm talking about it all the time. I love that. So, yeah, I think that's really interesting. The whole, the betrayal aspect, of course, is really interesting. I just want to, I don't need to spend too much time on the Oracle of Delphi, Delphi or the Oracle of Delphi, however you prefer. To say it in Greek mythology corner, but I do want to point something out to you. Like, the Oracle of Delphi is like the Oracle. Like, there are oracles and then there's the Oracle of Delphi. Orpithia. The temple at Delphi is a shrine to Apollo, similar to the shrine that we'll talk about when we talk about Medusa. Like this is like an important sacred space. But here's something that I love about. This is something I've always loved about the Oracle. Because like whether or not this is a person, this is a figure who people will travel from all over the world to come get their prophecies read.

This is a figure of mythology but also of history, like a real person existed but also is mythologized. But can I tell you what the Oracle's work schedule is? Please. The Oracle only works nine days a year. One day a month on the nine warmest months of the year. And then like a three month winter break. This is the work schedule of the Oracle. How do you feel that work like balance compares to ours?

This is like, is this what the kids mean when they say hashtag goals? work to live not live to work um so yeah but if you're like if you're a king if you're whatever you're traveling to see the Oracle Delphia and a mighty shrine to Apollo or

a musty dusty attic space who's to say uh same same deal but this is a this is what we're dealing with here we go from the Oracle to the founding of a fellowship this is

the council of Chiron, not the Council of Elron, but it is essentially the Council of Elron. And we're going, Chiron has decided to interpret the prophecy as the God who is turned has to be Hades. So you got to go to Hades by way of L.A.

We're going to return to that, the L.A. factor a little bit later, Mallory. But in the book, we get this clarity of the ticking clock and the stakes that I thought might be useful to talk about here. In the book, it's the summer solstice that we're aiming for. Quote, Zeus has demanded that Poseidon returned the bolt by the summer solstice. That's June 24th, 10 days from now. So June 21st, so it's a 10-day ticking clock on a, that's not a lot of time for a quest.

Especially if you're not allowed to travel via airplane. because that's his domain. Yeah. It's limiting. Take the Amtrak to get to L.A. It's a speedy Amtrak, by the way. The stakes. World ending war.

Here's the quote. Imagine the world in chaos. Nature at war with itself. Olympians forced to choose sides. Zeus and Poseidon. Destruction. Carnage. Millions dead.

Western civilization. Turned into a battleground so big. It will make the Trojan war look like a water balloon fight. So those are the world ending stakes, but what I really love about these episodes, and we'll talk about this a bit more when we get into episode four, is the personal stakes for our heroes on this quest. So there's big world ending stakes, but there's also intimate personal, individualized stakes for these three characters. I really like that. What do you make of the adaptive choice? In the book, the foundation of fellowship is really quick. It is basically chosen for Percy. It's like, Annabeth is going to go with you. Grover's going to go with you. Boom, bang. We're done.

In the show. Yeah. Very eager for a quest. Yes. I mean, she's like, since Percy shows up to camp, she's like, been waiting, seaweed brain.

Are you my summer soul's this guy? It's TikTok. It's coming up. Seward brain always makes me laugh. Kelp brain's also good. Mine will help. That's great. What do you make of this difference

where Percy has more agency in the choice here in the show. Yeah, I like it. I think it heightens the dramatic tension of the Annabeth Percy Bond. In particular, it leads to this like nice moment where Percy, in essence,

apologizes to Luke for not choosing him and explains why. You know, you told me you'd always have Annabeth's back over everybody else. so I need to be able to like go save my mom from the underworld and I can't have my questmates picking each other over me. What he says in real time about if the mission required someone to push me down a flight of stairs for it to succeed, you'd want someone who won't hesitate when they do it. This like bold declaration of this is somebody who understands the necessity and the urgent need of whatever is required.

And then of course what is eventually revealed to, Annabeth herself, like, I heard this prophecy. Someone who calls me friend is going to betray me. And it seems impossible to me that we could ever become friends. So I thought you were a safe pick because we're not friends. And I don't think we could become friends. And then we built toward just in the span of a couple episodes where she's like, he's saying, you've done more for me than my father in a couple days.

And my father has in my entire life. It's like careful. It almost sounds like we're becoming friends. It was a really effective, quick way to open up a lot of these. central relationships. I think the other thing that is very effective about the forging of the trio and the just setting out for the quest. You know, we get this lovely voiceover from Grover shortly when we're traveling through

the city and making our way to the bus. And Grover is talking about like the sanctity of a quest, what it means to be in conversation with the gods. And there is something that is like empowering and thrilling and obviously definitionally mythic about it. one of the strokes of genius of the story, we were talking about this a lot in the first two episodes. We'll talk about it a ton today.

It's always balancing something that feels aspirational with like the revulsion of something that the gods have done or what you realize that they are capable of. And so like even the fact that the demigods, that the mortals, that the humans are the ones who go on the quest is I think just worth hitting for like a second. There's a great passage in the book after, you know, after a, just explained like this is what we're talking about. This is what you got it's, Katie's, it's L.A.

You got to go. Here's the deal. Struction, carnage, millions dead. Water balloons? No. Brothers warring.

Zeus thinks Poseidon is coming for him. He's claimed to you as his son. Everyone thinks you took the master bullet, etc. Okay, well, what does this all really mean? Besides what the potential threat is,

Like, why does it have to happen this way? I love this passage from the books. This is Chiron explaining to Percy. Gods cannot cross each other's territories except by invitation. That is another ancient rule. Heroes, on the other hand, have certain privileges. They can go anywhere, challenge anyone. As long as they're bold enough and strong enough to do it,

no God can be held responsible for a hero's actions. Why do you think the gods always operate through humans? So this is like another reminder in an episode full of them of on the one hand a godly limit or restriction. You mentioned last pod, the like unbreakable vow equivalent of swearing on the river sticks. This is the forbidden child of it all, right?

And this broken vow. But these rules that bind the gods and then the way that they are using their children as pawns, like as tools to do the thing that they cannot or to target them because they know other, other godly beings might use them in this way. Like the quest is this amazing, exciting, incredible thing. and you're the people I'm going to choose,

either out of fear or out of loyalty and trust. But, like, why are we on the quest in the first place? It's because we're these little pieces on the chessboard, these play things for the Olympians. And we talked about this in the first two episodes, because it came up in the first two episodes, this idea that, like, gods can't do a thing, but heroes can.

And you were like, you think that's going to come up again? And it's like, yeah, immediately, it's going to be up again. Immediately. Whoever stole the lightning is not another guy. You know what I mean? So it's like it's a fun, it's a fun journey we're on together. Really key, key part of Grover being part of, because Grover's not a human nor a demigod, but he is on this journey.

He is among other things, among other things, he promises to pack the best snacks. I love this. My question for you, Mallory Rubin. This is great. I'm going to pack best snacks. Leaving apples off the table. What's the best? And the tongue of the ear of your friend who was frozen to death when your soccer team crashed in the wilderness in the 90s.

I need a piece of my friend. Bully for you. What's the best snack where, but? There's a reference to another television show there in case anyone is like, what the hell are they talking about? Well, we know Grover thinks that this means tin cans, you know, big aluminum can guy. for me you know we have a wonderful beautiful

tradition which is that you me joe me every time one of us gets in an airplane we text each other the bag of fruit snacks that we bought at the airport we're big Welch's fruit snacks airplane people I think that's a great snack I would definitely want some fruit snacks

as you know I believe in jerky you need some beef jerky or some turkey you need some sort of jerky some sort of easy to transport protein rich snack, anytime you have a journey ahead of you. Now, I find that essential for like a 45 minute flight. I'm like, what if I need protein? You know? So if it's for a journey across the entire country to retrieve the master bolt, I don't even, I shuddered a thing, how much protein and trail mix and fruit snacks and like bars I would need to pack with me. Because I basically have to have a snack every like 17 minutes, as you know. So it's just, it's, it's, it's,

It's troubling. I certainly would not have, would not have accepted the order to stay in my seat on the bus while someone else selected the chips and soda and big, oof, candy. Has Adameth ever gotten snacks before in her life? It seems like not. Anyway, okay. Probably not. Yeah, all those fresh strawberries and get camp out. The can, the can aspect plays a much bigger role in the book than it does in the show. But Grover loves a can. And in the book, he packs all, these cans for the trip. And then their luggage blows up in the bus. That doesn't happen here, but it happens

in the book. And he goes, my can't. It's incredible. And I thought about one of my favorite lines from speed. How familiar? How many times have you seen the movie speed? I mean, when I was younger, like, I don't know, a dozen. Maybe I haven't seen it in quite some time, though. There's a crucial moment in speed. Yeah. Where the bus, I don't know if you know this is like, has to maintain a certain speed.

Familiar with the premise. Yeah. Sandy's driving the bus. And there's a woman with a baby carriage and she's like, oh, my God. And she clips the carriage and the carriage goes up in the air. And she's like, oh, my God, that baby, that baby, that baby. And then Keanu Reeves goes, cans, Annie, they were cans. And that's what I thought about in the book when Grover's like, my cans.

Anyway, I love it. Kans, Annie, they were cans. Is one of my favorite speed lines. Let's go forward. You mentioned this scene with Luke already, but we should just talk about, what exactly happens here. The parting gift from Luke. Luke doesn't seem too bothered to not be going on the quest.

And he's like, I got you some sick winged shoes, bro. How do these winged converse stack up to the doctor's converse that we talked about a lot in the most recent Doctor Who episodes? It's, it's Converse season. It's Chuck Taylor season here at House of Ar. What a time. What a time for us recently. You know, the movie, the movie Lightning Thief adaptation, they won't,

with the black converse. Yeah. And here we get the bright cherry red. So that was, that was fun. So there's a little, you know, just like a nice pop of color. Delightful. I always love a pair of chucks. And this was a thrill.

And of course, the knowledge that this is a gift from Luke's father, Hermes, it's, it's, we get the pretty immediate payoff of Grover failing to properly use them, lying about Medusa's. the layer. It's just all wonderful. Can I just like, all wonderful? This doesn't, they didn't make it into the show, but something that I love about like why Grover wears the shoes versus Pat Percy is as they mentioned in the show and in the book, they can't take a flight to L.A. because the sky is Zeus's Dominion. And so if they go up into the

sky, I mean, I'm pretty sure everywhere is Zeus's dominion, but sure. The sky is Zeus's dominion. And if they go up to the sky, they will be sit and ducks for Zeus. So they have to go by land. And so Percy can't even put these winged shoes on because they will put him in the air. I mean, never mind the fact that he goes to the top of the St. Louis-Lewis arch, like, the convers are touching the surface. Yeah, you can't be hovering. I just love that idea. So he's like, Grover, would you and your fake hoof feet like some converse?

I love that these converse as opposed to the ones in the movie, the wings like come out of the laces and it's like one big wing. on each side, something like that, which is just seems more practical than the, what is the inner wing really doing for you? I don't think enough. Great scene. We got a Chuck Echise call out on the mythic money, the drachmas that Percy had never seen it for.

Where a kid can be a kid. Very sweet moment once again with Luke when Percy is like, sorry I didn't pick you. And Luke says Grover's a lot stronger than people think. a rich scene here. Mythology corner on the item, the Talaria. Yep.

Is traditionally, when Percy is sent off to fight Medusa, he is given from Hermes three gifts. There's the Talaria, the wing and sandals. There is Hades helm of darkness and a sword to slay Medusa.

And what we get here is those three things are spread out among our three companions, right? Grover winds with the winged sandals with the shoes. Annabeth has from Athena, it's different from Haiti's Helm of Darkness, but she's got from Athena, her invisible cloak slash cap.

And then Percy gets the sword. And so I love that as like, you know, you know I love a fellowship. You know, like, I can't carry it, but I can carry you means a lot to me. So I love the idea that it's like, it's not one hero that's going to be able to do this. It's these three people working together with their individual strengths, all of which we see on display in these episodes.

Like the brains, the, you know, the dumb Gryffindor bravery and the, you know, comic relief is all, it's all, it's all there, you know, classic iconic golden tree. I love that we get like moments around each of the items and their significance and, like, there's the great, you know, the tension builds for the tree over the course of episode three. And like, not to jump ahead, but since we're talking about the items, you know, I really loved when Grover called out Percy. I'm like, well, let's just, you know, we'll keep the hat on the severed head and put it in this box. And Grover's like, that hat was a gift from her mother. That ought to matter to you. Yeah, that ought to matter to you was like such a great moment.

And then, of course, he has a version of this for Annabeth in terms of. considering Percy's perspective. So that's, it's lovely to get the deeper understanding there. Yeah. And Grover is so, such the heart of, of this trio. And it's just absolutely beautiful. One item they don't get, which would have come in handy, is Athena gives Perseus, the OG Greek hero, a shield, a polished shield.

So they can look into the shield rather into Medusa's eye. They play this in the book. They kind of leave it out a bit. in the show doesn't really matter. But I just, I don't know. I love all this. Are you going to mention sort of this like game theory of sort of why Percy chose who he chose? Were you thinking about Survivor and alliances when he's like, well, let's see.

Grover is definitely an alliance with me. And I don't even need to worry about Annabeth because she's not an alliance with anybody. You always have to have the numbers. But he didn't know about Annabeth and Grover's history. He didn't know they were in a previous season together, you know? Yeah, exactly. Despite us moving in short order here to the Thalia Tree Reveal, he's like, yeah, he's not doing the squad. We had a tribe swap math.

The, I was thinking about this more like rereading these chapters of the book and watching these episodes. it's interesting to me that they're they're really playing up the Luke Annabeth Bond and history and like the emotional depth of that in the book at this point like we learn as we will it's like a crush

yeah but there's all right all of these references like anytime Luke is around Annabeth like blushes and stammerers and like yeah and so it there's a tweak here that is notable I think well I and I think it's

I mean, it could play this way. Annabeth, I think, is meant to be, she's younger in the show than she, like, she's older than Percy in the books and is his age in the show. And like, a younger person can have a crush and an older person that's not weird. But, like, I think that making it seem more like a brother or sister, we dug Cole together a relationship. I really like that. Anabeth says goodbye to the tree. Yes. And this is a beautiful poignant moment, but there also is the line,

she met a hero's fate, she met a pine cone's fate, which I just want to shout out as top tier. This is so funny. There are a lot of, I mean, the later electo line about Pallius tree and the squirrels making it at their home was like, unbelievably. is so funny in this episode. What she gets to do in her little sequence, completely low-key deadpan in the bus,

you're like, oh, this is why they cast Bigam Malawi in this role, you know? Every second is precious. Glad we got more. Glad we didn't have to wait too long. But the Pich Spade is genuinely hysterical. I thought this was another great sequence where you have that kind of signature Percy brew of like, real sharp biting wit and this like very specific voice for your protagonist mixed with

this like emotional heft you know what we're learning here and then what we learn on delay that is connected to this because the the grover connection to the thalia annabeth luke pinecone history that grover aspect comes a little bit later yeah Yeah, but we learned it over the course of these episodes so we can, you know, talk about it all in tandem. Like, we discuss this a bit in the, in the pot on the first two episodes that note about like, what, like success from Mr. D. E to Grover and how we were starting to feel the weight of what is like this burden that Grover is carrying. And when we just learn outright and when Percy learns from Chiron in the book, like, I'm, I'm afraid that was Grover's second chance, Percy, meaning protecting Percy, the council. the council was not anxious to give him another after what happened the first time five years ago. This is a monumental seismic failure from Grover's perspective and from other people's perspective in his history and his life that weighs on him deeply.

So we're getting that. We're understanding what is on his mind, what feels like it's plagued and what he needs to prove in order to move forward with the things that he wants. We have other moments where we're learning, which we'll talk about elsewhere, about why the quest matters for Annabeth. right. We know why it matters to Percy. We know that he wants to find his mother. So they're forging their shared, their shared bond. They have a shared quest. But they all have their reasons. And we get to glimpse them and learn more about them. And then the way that they start to like see that and respect and value that for each other. Well, and share them with each other. Yeah. Yeah. It's like so huge. This is also a huge moment because like there's there's Grovers from, you know,

We're watching from a distance. Annabeth marinate in this traumatic thing that happened to her. She's saying goodbye to her friend who was now a tree. Grover's failure that we don't know in that moment. You can really see the outline of the human fault. A good old foul. But and then Fowley was the last forbidden Zeus's last forbidden child. And so this is like this could happen to Percy.

And so for Percy to be so funny and snarky about it is its own. thing, but it's also like he is, he is again, that outsider voice always being like, hey, it's unacceptable that people get turned into trees just because of who they were born to and they had no choice over that. You know, like this is constantly going to be Percy's role to be impertinent as he puts at the end of this episode to interrogate, you know, the rules of this universe. So I love that. And I think, I think to like, he'll bring up Thalia again. again later. And, you know, as you're as you're as you're noting that, oh, wait, the last forbidden child, what might this mean for me kind of like realization that is dawning? But when he's learning

about what happened in the book for the first time and we get that great passage, when their child was born, a girl named Thalia, well, the river sticks. There's Joe, your, your, your, your call out from last time again. It's serious about promises. Zeus himself got off easy because he's mortal, but he brought a terrible fate on his daughter and Percy's reaction to that. It's like, that's not fair. Why is his daughter the one who has to pay? And this like continuation of this examination of who actually has to pay for the mistakes of the gods. Or I mean for Medusa the mistake of the gods, but in general, somebody else's mistake, you know, like it's Percy's choice to send the Medusa head up. Anna Beth is the one big connection.

Annabeth is being punished by her mother for that. You know what I mean? Like that's the gods are cruel and capricious and also kind and generous and wise and fair. You know, it's just like all this like the gods are the most wise, most involved beings and also absolute children at the same time. That's just always true in Greek mythology. Okay. So we're on the road. We already mentioned the whole like we can't go in the sky thing.

Let's hear this conversation about Annabeth going to get. the snacks, uh, Isaiah, please. I want to vote. Who thinks that we should all go get to breathe fresh air and buy our own snacks? There's no voting. Chips and soda's okay for you guys? I don't think you should just get to decide we don't vote. I'm sorry to hear that.

Okay. I want to vote on whether you get to decide we don't vote. Gover, please. Can you help your friend? I really don't want to be a tiebreaker. I have a better idea. Oh, golly. The road's getting bumpy because I got me some.

friends who just can't get along oh dear when the team's getting grumpy the trick to get through it is singing this song what are you doing fantastic it's an earworm it's a jam it's great the fact that it gets a reprise by the end of the episode there's a double musical moment at the end of the episode but like this is a great little song I do it's a great little song it's not in the book it's really fun um and it's just like again like exemplifying like Grover as this sort of like peacemaker heart bringer all this sort of stuff. Absolutely wonderful.

Can I just say that the cut from a quest is a sacred thing and to be charged with one is to be in conversation with the gods themselves to the toilet flushing on the bus and the look on Percy's face as the ass

stench wafts by I thought the gay plumber moment was great last pod but this is like I hope there's I hope there's a toilet moment for you every two episodes so that we can always have this moment for you Malay um galley as we mentioned okay first of all I love that Annabeth is like you yeah just assume she's in charge first he's like excuse me excuse me this is not my quest throughout really funny um we already mentioned the sort of Anabeth and Electo Exchange and how funny that it is.

But what I love is that and I already have this in my notes before. I read this great article from Variety on the Medusa change, which we'll talk about a little bit later. But something they talk about a lot in that article is this idea of like the POV that the books are from versus the wider POV of the show. And so in the POV, the POV is so staunchly in Percy Jackson's mind that later in the book series, actually, they have to like tie themselves in logistical nuts in order to show you the whole story. Whereas I want to be like, Rick, my guy, my pal, you could just add a new POV. People do it all the time. It's okay. You can do it.

You decide not to. So there's like some serious limits on that. here we get to see this scene with Annabeth and Electo that like Percy doesn't get to see it. So then later when Percy's like, what was that thing? She was referencing? Like, I wasn't there for that. So the whole story gets broken open in a really fun way. And this is just like a little example of it.

But like it just allows us to tell a more complex story. Percy doesn't have to be there for every single thing that happens. Which is great. Yeah. Absolutely. Anything you want to say about the bus fight? No massive explosion. I'm not worried about it.

This is a budget saver, but we still don't love the look of these theories, right? Still not our favorite. Yeah. Yeah. That's rough. It's really, really rough. It was fun to see, like, the cutting in and out of perspectives.

The mist sort of. Yeah. Yeah. How the mist, like, is in real time as if our heroes, our beloved demigods, see this, see these furious charging. and the people are just like, ma'am, I'm trying to get off his bus. Can you move, please? What do you think the one flying through the window looked like to other people, though?

Just like a particularly committed leaf flowing in on the wind. It's like a stubborn leaf determined to make its way in through a crash. A window shattering leaf. Yeah. You know, probably that. You know, a manifestation early on in the story here of this truth that monsters don't die, right? It's, you know, we get the, nothing will stop them. Not even death.

From that passage that was selected as the opening quote to the pod, Annabeth in the book is the one to kind of explain this to Percy. They could be killed, but they don't die, which is these like, thanks. That clears that up. Very amusing. But the explanation that they are primal forces, Kairon calls them archetypes. in terms of what actually happens and the escape, I'll put a pin in this

until we get to the chimera battle to just say when I was going through the story for the first time, this is around where I had a like, wait, these are supposed to be the most like fearsome

tools of Hades, right? The furies. Oh my God. And like more than once now or very like newly aware demigod is escaping from the jaws of peril. And so when we get to the Camara and that's not what happens and Percy really struggles, I think that's like a crucial moment to hit before the mid the midway mark of the season and around the midpoint of the book.

And it's something that Percy is actually like thinking about in real time. So I like that in the, we kind of get the, oh my God, miraculous escape yet again. And then the like, oh, I actually was not up for this in back-to-back episodes because that's an important balance. I think the only other thing I'll cite here is just that Electo says to Annabeth, amitha, again, just raucous comedy and savage barbs. Either way, now it would seem you're exactly what they say you are. The pride of Athena's offspring, perhaps the most formidable demigod child alive. The story's called Percy Jackson and the Olympians. Percy is the protagonist.

as Perseus, you just noted, is the point of view character in the books. Important to have moments where, like, we get a sense of the reputation and standing and stature of other characters. She's like, well, well, Annabeth, you really are the brightest witch of your age. Exactly. Exactly. Getting to hear that was like, yeah, this is how people think about Anaband. This is like, this is Anabat's reputation. Like, she's for real, I thought was cool.

Yeah. And I mean, Percy gets away from Electo in the first instance. He's not getting away in that bus without Grover and Annabeth there, not getting away from Medusa without Grover and Abeth there. And when he tries to take on the Camara by himself, that's when he fails. So, like, yeah, just really highlighting that the need for the full, the full fellowship. Love it. And then, of course, there's a temptation here.

Percy will have a temptation with Medusa. So the idea of temptation is entering the story as well. The reason I put that monster, and why I picked that monster, quote from the beginning is I think it's going to be important to always be thinking about this as we encounter all these monsters when we see what Medusa says or we see what Akidna says in the next episode. What shame, inadequacy, need for glory, need for comfort is this particular monster exploiting? And so what does that tell us about the character? What are they bringing out in this character that helps us better understand who the character is? I think it's going to be a really key

concept to think about going forward. All right. We're on the Seder Path, which as far as I can tell, from a light to medium Google, is not in the Persia Jackson books nor something from Greek mythology. I couldn't really find something.

If you were listening and you're like, well, actually, Joanna, this is the source of the Seder Path. You know the drill, Hobbits and drag is at gmail.com. Thanks so much. But I think it was just like a really fun, if it is something that they came up in the room, it's a really fun edition, neat bit of world building

that I really like the concept of the Seder Path. And certainly Uncle Ferdinand is something that comes up in the book. This was also, I thought, absolutely hysterical. The show is really funny. Obviously, the books are really funny. It's really funny. Yeah. We're fine.

We haven't even gotten to Trenton and we're wandering through a forest. I didn't even know they had forests in New Jersey, but we found one. It just like really made me chuckle. It's this great humor. doing so much to really establish like the voice of Fursi and the way he talks and the way he thinks and the way he interacts. So I just, I really, really love that. And again, you kind of go from the humor, like the nervous, anxious humor into like this really serious, what did you think it would be easy? It's supposed to be hard. That's why certain people are chosen, like,

declaration from Annabeth. Like I loved when she's like, if we ask for help, it's akin to saying, everyone made a mistake. We weren't right for that, for this. The quest is something that is like, Annabeth has been seeking and waiting for and biding her time and anticipating, this defining thing in her life. And Percy's like, I'm completely comfortable with that.

Everyone makes me sick. I'm completely comfortable saying we were not right for this. Literally anyone. It's so good. Why are you so afraid of who you are, going to come up again later. But like, yeah, you're not just a kid. We're a part of something bigger.

All this sort of stuff. This is Percy on the fly having to adjust to this concept with going from just being a kid to being a demigod. A reality that Annabeth has had her whole life, it seems. Like she ran away at 7, but seems she knew she was Athena's daughter her whole life. So has known this all along. Yeah. Yeah.

There's just like, okay, I had to leave home when I was. I've got more beads on my necklace. Like I've been at I've been at Camp Halfblood longer than most of the counselors who are older. And, you know, I know there's a spot elsewhere in the, in the outline where we're going to talk a little bit more about why this is so important for Annabeth

and like what is, what she is seeking. What she's trying to prove. Yeah. Yeah. There's that great moment in the books where she says, like it's just to Percy. It's just that if you died, Aside from the fact that it would really suck for you.

Simply iconic. It would mean the quest was over. This may be my only chance to see the real world. And like, everybody has their own purpose and their own mission, but this constant reinforcement of how their fates are now entwined, even though they don't really know each other yet. And they don't like, at this point in the show, they don't like each other yet.

It's such a fascinating brew. This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and making a mess. You don't need weather tech floor liners in the summer, unless you hit the beach or go camping. Then you'd want a cargo liner. Or a road trip goes sideways, ketchup goes rogue, ice cream drips. Yeah, you'd be pretty happy about those weather tech seat protectors. So just to be clear as the mud, you're inevitably going to step into the summer.

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We've arrived at Anteams. Yes. and we're about to meet Medusa as played by the absolutely iconic Jessica Parker Kennedy. But I just want to, before she saunter's her way onto the screen, I just want to say how much I appreciate. And again, this was in the variety article, but I was already thinking it, how much I appreciated. Or no, it was actually, I think it was again a Rick Jordan. Oh, and I say his last name wrong. One of our listeners kindly corrected me.

I've been saying it wrong for like a day. I've sold so many copies this man's book saying his name wrong, but someone sent me a clip of him saying his own name and it's Ryarden. So Rick Ryarden. Ryarden's, um, I think it was a tweet that he wrote about how, um, Annabeth is so smart and so six steps ahead of everyone all the time that he's like, it kind of makes no sense how long it takes them to figure out who Medusa is in the book.

And I was like, I completely agree. I love that she figures that out. right away. I got so frustrated in the book. First of all, this is just like a classic storytelling thing. It is just like such a bad move for your audience to be so far ahead of your heroes. It's just like never a good feeling, especially when they're still trying to prove their like capability to you. So like it's so in the book in this chapter, do you not put the pieces together for a little while. They are in their defense very hungry. Sure. And like overwhelmed by the aroma of hamburgers. But like,

But Annabeth, they just like walk up, Anna Beth's like, where the fuck do you think we are? Put it together. Like immediately upon arrival. It's so good. I loved it. I love how quickly, not only she cracks the code in the show, but how quickly she goes from being in full on Stannis Barathean, like we march to victory

or we march into defeat. We go forward only forward into like, guys, no, not forward into the garden full of petrified statues. This is clearly a Medusa us home, we should leave. Let's leave. Good stuff. Jessica Parker Kennedy, who I met in the television show Black Sales,

which I, as I mentioned, the creators of the show did Black Sales previously. And she had a huge role to play on that show. So this is like a really, it's fun. I mentioned this later than I'll just say it now. She gets like so many good speeches. And it's such like a, It's so obviously like they love her. They love this actress. They love when she reads their dialogue. They're just going to load her up with a bunch of speeches. And I love her design.

Overall, like both Medusa and Akina are very different, are very much more apparently monstrous. Well, like, the Medusa is like wholly veiled, but like is eventually sort of revealed to be monstrous. And I really love this change here. in the variety article that we're about to reference heavily throughout, Rick says, quote, one of the most interesting changes that inform the way Medusa looks is that Medusa's point of view, the real curse wasn't making her ugly, it was making her invisible.

She has chosen in this version to own that, to be seen, to be elegant. She turns people into stone and uses that as art. So she's got the red lip, she's got the like, you know, the heels, the dress, the hat. I just, I loved this design. what did you think of when you first saw her stroll out? I thought that this is the most different, most radically distinct and updated stretch of the show so far. And I think it's great.

I think every change they made was for the better. And some of them are very complex, thematic examinations. And some of them are, you know, more this like visual power. but that also connects. Like I think that that quote you just read is, I mean,

that's, like, quite poignant. You know, it was making her invisible. Like, this is a, there are a lot of the lines that we hear from Medusa in the show early on, like the gift the gods gave me is that I cannot be bullied anymore. This feeling, you know,

you're not a monster. What are you? A survivor. Like, this sense of identity and isolation. And how does this character see herself and how do other people see her? And I think that there's a, I guess the one question slash note I have on the changes is that it's almost the initial efforts to make Medusa like less overtly monstrous and more

sympathetic and allow us to like access her history and her perspective more fully, which I think is important and good. it does lead to like a kind of awkward moment of oh but now we're going to cut her head off anyway and like needing to kind of like grapple with the aspects of like what she's doing that in in real time that are monstrous right turning people into stone and petrifying them that is a terrible thing trying to say to percy wolf if we just get if we just get them out of your way right now you know like you'll be golden you don't have to worry about whether they're going to allow you you to find your mother. There are these hideous things that are happening, but I think the choice to not like oversimplify it and say it's not that we're not coming out and saying Medusa's just great. And Medusa is also a hero. It's that there is this complex, this complexity at play, right? Like we need to understand how she became this way. We need to understand what is on her mind. We need to understand what other people, what the gods did to her.

that like led to this. Create. Yeah, led to this existence. And, you know, of course, I think it's difficult for the, when Medusa says early on here, like, we all choose who we make our monsters. It's impossible for us not to think of the Sally Jackson line we talked about so much last pod. Not everyone who looks like a hero is a hero and not everyone who looks like a monster is a monster.

And like, I think the show is doing a really good job so far of taking pains to say the counterpoint also can't be at the extreme. Like it has to, there has to be room for nuance in that assessment. Like, that's actually what the story is about. And the fact that there's room for so much nuance in episode three of season one of Percy Jackson is a gift. I love that Percy's willing to engage in The Ducey here. Annabess is like, absolutely not. He's like, he's willing to engage again, because.

of the stories his mom told him. And again, this is a change for the book where often he's thinking about like things that Chiron taught him. The way in which they have expanded and deepened his connection to his mom, Sally Jackson, the way that both in this episode and

in the next episode, we are reminded overtly of her. She's invoked. We're thinking about her. She's not just this object to be rescued. She is this constant living force inside the decisions that Percy makes. Right? Yes.

And he said, quote, the point was always that she isn't what people think. And I do love how complicated that is. Because he's like, let's give her a chance. You know, we should just assume people are monsters. And then she tries to kill them. You know what? It's like, and he's kind of wrong. So, you know, but it's complicated.

It's very, very interesting. Let's listen. We're not going to listen to all of her wonderful monologues, but let's listen to this very crucial one. Isaiah will we play this clip, please? Athena was everything to me. I worshipped her. I prayed to her.

I made offerings. She never answered. Not even an omen to suggest she appreciated my love. I wasn't like you, sweetheart. I was you. I would have worshipped her that way for a lifetime and silence. But then one day, Another God came and he broke that silence.

Your father. The see God told me that he loved me. I felt as though he saw me in a way I had never felt seen before. But then Athena declared that I had embarrassed her and I needed to be punished. Not him. Me. She decided that I would never be seen again by anyone who would live to tell the tale. That isn't what happened.

happened. My mother is just always. The gods want you to believe that, that they are infallible. But they only want what all police want. They want us to blame ourselves for their own shortcomings. That is not what happened. And you are a liar. So the reason why I think this is so important, in addition to a lot of stuff we talked about last time with Medusa, what we learned about. You were on this. You were really, you had like almost like a prescient anticipation of this update. It was amazing. I just, well, I just, I thought that scene was, I think that's, I still think that scene is my favorite scene,

Miss Sally and Little Percy. And I just think that like the story of Medusa and the various ways we tell it has always been something that's kind of interesting to me. So, but the, um, it's so. important for Annabeth to have this interaction with Medusa because especially Medusa uses the word embarrassed here, which is the same exact word that Annabeth will use when talking about how she embarrassed her mother. It's what a kidness or it plays on her in the next episode. And so this idea of they want us to blame ourselves for their own shortcomings.

when Annabeth in the next episode, when she is going up the elevator and she's saying this thing about being embarrassing Athena, her pos, she's all caved in. She is ashamed. She is chastened. She is all these things that exactly

what Medusa is saying here. And like it's not just this idea of questioning the pantheon, questioning the way the gods do things. Yeah. is one of Percy's most prominent roles, but it's important also to have these other people echo that. And what I love about,

I thought Jessica Parker's Kennedy, Jessica Parker Kennedy's, everything was incredible, but I loved, I wasn't like you, sweetheart, I was you. It's such a good line. And later when she's trying to sort of tempt Percy,

she says, I'm the same as your, I'm just like your mom. Your mom and I are the same. Same thing happened to us. And here she's voicing something that Percy feels, which is this questioning of the gods and their justice and the way things work. And what I think is so interesting about that specifically in all the various ways that they've deepened and expanded this Medusa idea is this idea of her being like when she's punished, she's made so other, so outcast, so alone. She has her two sisters with her and some versions of the story, but like her curse is no one can be close to her. And she's all alone. And so for her language to be so, I'm like you. I was like your mom. I am, I do belong. I am of you. I am not the other. I am not the monster. I am just like you. It's not just like I'm a cautionary tale of what might happen to you, but also like I still belong to humanity to, you know,

whatever this world is, which I find so poignant in all of this. I love that. I think, too, like the other side of that and the relationship to that idea of like feeling like an other and outside is that goes in both directions because that's something that is weighing on Percy constantly. Like, Grover is my first real friend. I haven't been able to make it. I don't have a sense of belonging.

We talked about this last episode. like you finally have your Harry or Wizard for your Deremega moment. And then the first question is like, who's my father? Am I unclaimed? Which cabin do I get to go to? Even in the cabin they put me in, do I belong? Okay, now I know who I am. I'm forbidden.

It's like it's a constant building sense of like feeling like you're not meant to be a part of something or someone doesn't want to allow you to be a part of something. And so it's like actually something that they can relate to and understand. And I think that whole, you know, beautiful clip that we just heard, like, for Annabeth and Percy, even though they are in different positions and responding differently to what they're hearing in real time, to both have to contend with what this says

about their parents and their history and what they're connected to and the gods more broadly and like this jealousy and cruelty and like ill usage and lack of gratitude, all of that. I love, you know, you just, you tease that next, the continuation of the scene when Medusa and Percy go into the kitchen, And your mother and I were like sisters in a way targeted by the same monster.

So I find myself feeling protective of you. A monster? My mom never talked about my dad that way. Where is she now? Your mother. Is she safe? I thought that was an incredible moment because, you know, we're not far away, even in the span of these two episodes from Percy feeling Poseidon's presence for the first time.

when we get this moment down in the riverbed of belief in reinforcement, which we'll talk about when we get there. But Percy's already angry, right? He's already angry and feeling resentful toward his father for just being absent. And the. Absent, yeah. But this idea, this specific framing that your dad, it's not just that he's not a part of your life, he is harmful.

This unsettles and, yeah, disturbs Percy in a way that is, this is new to him. And like when he says my mother didn't talk about my dad that way, we know that he's right because we heard her say last week. We come to this place every year because this is where I met your father. A long time ago, I met a man here on the beach. He was wise and brave and kind and noble, right? It's a list of attributes and things that she still thinks of finally. But this note, the landing of this note from Medusa of this question of like what good is, worshipping Athena or pining for this memory of one version of Poseidon if that

devotion is never reciprocated even amid the already present resentment, that is a new sting for Percy that has to linger. And I think what's also so interesting about this is that we're talking about literal moms and dads who are also gods. But like, you know, a sacred text for us is the TV show lost. We're talking about it a little bit more specifically later, but that constant idea of, like, God as this absentee bad dad, which is something that, like, runs through all of David Lindelof's work, like, the literalization of like, your God is dad and he hasn't been there. Your God is your mom. They haven't been there. They're literally silent. In that clip we heard, when Medusa says, I prayed her I made offering, she never answered, not even omen, you know, but she was like, but I would have gone, but I would have dealt with. that that cold like distant

you know almost loveless relationship that worshippers have with their gods or certain people have with their parental figure or whatever is just like um very very upsetting okay so

one more quote from this variety article but I recommend you read the whole thing because everyone is it's great everyone gives an interview it's great um but um I've mentioned I have a friend of Rice in the show she listened to our first podcast

and I was she told me she was listening to text me she was listening to it I didn't know that she was and I was like sort of hastily I was like I didn't say your name because I didn't want to be like my friend and like drop your name or whatever but she gets named drop the variety article so I'm going to read it

and I'm very proud of her um Percy Jackson co-creator co-sher runner John Steinberg who credits writer Daphne Olive for steering much of the storyline explains how the episode gestures at the original myth while keeping an age appropriate. Quote, if you know what she's talking about, you know what she's talking about.

If you're too young to be in that conversation, it won't bother you. You're just in a scene about this woman who seems complicated and everyone's got an opinion about what went down. There's no version that is the version. If Athena and Poseidon were in that room, you get three different versions of that story, right? So the way that, end quote. So the way that Jessica, the actress who's playing the role, says she thought of it, she's like, this is sexual.

I was assaulted. But just was assaulted by Poseidon. and Poseidon might tell it differently and Athena might tell it differently but this is her truth that she is telling here and what's true of a Poseidon or any god

in any story is that he could be both the kind, wise, wonderful man that Sally Jackson talks about wistfully and Medusa's monster you know? That that is the nature of the gods and I think that's so beautifully

rendered here. And Daphne, I'm very proud of you if you're listening. So yeah. She's the best. She's great. Shout out Daphne. Yeah.

Anything else we want to say about that Percy Medusa interaction in the kitchen? I thought that was really well done. Also, with like, the reflections on the copper pots above the stove. I thought that was really well done too. And then he's just gone. You know, I was just looking for the fast food counter

with the nacho cheese. Other than that. You're like, this is not what I was probably. Other than that, it was lovely. A little bit fancier here. In the book, Medusa, the book plays a little bit more with this idea of like turning yourself to stone, which I thought was interesting.

It's a little, it's a different sort of weakness that she's praying on here. But in the book, in this moment, to Percy, Medusa says, do you really want to help the gods? Do you understand what awaits you on this foolish quest, Percy? What will happen if you reach the underworld? Do not be a pawn of the Olympians, my dear. you'll be better off as a statue, less pain, less pain. Right?

Turn yourself into a rock and you won't feel any of these things that I felt. Yeah. It's really good. We are not our parents until we choose to be. That's what she says. Less pain. We are not a parent until we choose to be is what our show version of Medusa says down in the...

in the cavern with the statues and they're skulking around. You two have chosen. I just, again, I love every Medusa speech. It's all good. But I do think this is an effective speech to, if neither of you will help teach these lessons, perhaps you should be the lessons to give that heel turn for Medusa. You know? What change is.

I understand her logic pretty seamlessly. But as you say, then, to like just cut her head off and. It's a lot to carry. In the book, we get a nice definition of why monster parts stick around, even though monsters like recycle or whatever. Annabeth says to Percy, once you sever it, it becomes a spoil of war. Tremendous Game of Thrones episode. Same as your Minotaur horn.

But don't unwrap the head. It can still petrify you. Spoil of war. We get this interaction of like, them confronting their suspicions of each other. We've already covered a lot of this, I think, going on. Is there anything else you want to say about this wrap-up ending as they send the head off to Olympus? Hmm.

We talked about this. We talked about the, you know, Grover has this moment with Ferdinand. I really loved when he said, he's not like the others. He doesn't look afraid. And like Grover finding his courage is such important and genuinely like moving. inspiring thing to track. So I really liked that. But yeah, when he says that ought to matter to Percy about Annabeth in the hat. And then can you imagine how confusing that must be for him, feeling like you may have to choose between the fate of the world and the fate of the only person

who's ever cared for him to Annabeth about Percy. I love the way that an active challenge from Grover unlocks them finally sharing these things with each other. Percy revealing what the Oracle told him. Anabeth revealing what Electo, this temptation that electo offered. There's this absolutely heart-wrenching. It's a quick line in the book,

but after he hears the Oracle's prophecy, he thinks to himself, what friend would betray me? I didn't have that many. And like, it's just so it is so deeply sad for like, as you noted earlier, the mistrust is

is forged and spawns and it hangs over everything. But there's also just this despair of like, who could even, who could even really say that I'm their friend to betray me? Like, I don't really have these people in my life. And so to know as Percy is like opening up his heart and as Annabeth is opening up her heart to have this like harbinger in our minds of what the risk, what he thinks the risk is. That means betrayal.

Yeah. Yeah. It's just like it's intense. There's like you said earlier. There's a lot on the show's mind and the story's mind. This is also just, I would not be me if I didn't say. And again, I think it's amplified in, you know, there's tension between them, certainly in the book, but it's amplified a little bit in this episode in particular.

Such a, but from that moment on, Hermione Granger became their friend moment. Like, there are some things you can't share without ending up like each other and knocking out a 12-foot mountain troll slash cutting off Medusa's head is one of them. It just had like, that's such a, the feel of that. But I also was thinking again of that Sally memory and the beautiful, like, whispering of the Perseus reminder, the hold fast line, you know, we're seeing that through the Percy Sally lens when we first see it. But brave the storm that was made to break us for we are unbreakable as long as we have each other. Like, that's that lesson here for these three in real time. Because yeah, because Grover says we can decide that as long as the three of us are together, none of us are going to be alone, right?

And what I love about the reveal when Percy confesses what the Oracle said, when Annabeth says what Electra said on the bus, they reveal to each other they have already chosen each other. Yes. It's not we're going to choose each other from now on. They already did that. They are already loyal, steadfast people. So. Consensus. We end with the consensus gone.

Really funny when he starts clapping, which is great. It's really great. And then Lin-Mabel Miranda joins the chat as Hermes. Wild times. I mean, I knew he was in their show, and I knew he was playing Armes, but it's still like, oh, my God. Wow. Here he is. Just ride at an elevator.

The choice of using Arthur's theme. Yeah. Incredible. You can parse the lyrics if you want about the ways in which this makes you like a conflicted hero caught between two things. There's a lot to parse the lyrics. But I think the most important is like, da-da-da-da-da-to New York City. Like it's just like, I don't know. He's in the Empire State Building. Like he could have been singing in New York State of mine, honestly. Like there's like any like any number of things he could have been saying singing along to the elevator music in the Empire State Building going up his temper floor. Credits. Delightful. Great stuff. This episode is brought to by Nass Energy. Every ounce of dirt, sweat, and gears, every checkered flag and trophy raised, every lap, every race, every hard-bought place. They're all jammed inside every can of Nass Energy, high-performance energy for burning the

midnight oil in the garage, and pedal to the metal human horsepower for the streets. Go ahead. Crack open a can of Nass Energy and get after it. All right. episode four. We start with another Sally Jackson flashback. The Sally Jackson flashbacks are my favorite part of the show. They're working. They're great. I think about lost all the time as anyone who's listened to us podcast podcasting knows. This is the most overt lost flashback moment ever. I linked this for you just in case it wasn't fresh on your mind. We get tiny little

baby Percy Jackson, as played by Azrael Domyn. He's back. So cute. And Sally Jackson and they're in the pool. I think the reason I just like lose my mind of room is he looks exactly with my nephew Julian. Those like blonde curls. They have the same curls. They're so cute. Julian is a great name.

Yeah. Fantastic. Great kid. In the episode Greatest Hits and Lost, Charlie recalls his dad trying to teach him how to swim. And it involves one of the more iconic accent work lines which is juop charlie jub how do i think of money all the time joop charlie anyway sally is here um and of course grace hits that's an episode that involves there's a lot of swimming

in the next few episodes for charlie it's this idea of like breathe and being in the water and all this stuff that is going to come back at the end of this episode it's a very losty kind of moment Can we... The thing I want to say about this clip that we're about to play is like the show is doing such a good job of showing us this bond between these two. I know that there's technically a father figure

here, quote unquote. You know, she has a partner, but they don't. It's just the two of them against the world and hold fast. And so the way in which in those circumstances, when it's one parent, one child in the world. How often that child then has to also parent the parent, which is sort of what happens here with little baby Percy.

And also, I mean, the residence is so obvious. She's saying things that any parent who's exasperated and has paid for swimming lessons and the kid won't come off the wall would say, which is like, someday you're going to be near a lake, I'm not going to be there, blah, blah, but it's like, it's so heavy with the burden of what Percy is undergoing. Let's just hear it. Percy, it could be dangerous for you if you don't know how to do this. One day, it could be really important, and I may not be there to help you when that happened.

So I need to make sure you can do it. Breathe. What? Just breathe, Mommy. That's what you always tell me to do. You'll always be here. This devastated me. Like, I'm sorry.

I just like. And it's really hard to be this cute and sweet and not go full tilt over into Sackeren. Yeah. But as good as Walker is as like Percy, this little kid is so good. Like he's, it's harder to be as good as this kid is as young as this kid is. Do you know what I mean? It's hard to find someone this young who can do this. He's just, okay.

Anyway. I love this so much. It is incredibly moving and sweet. Another glimpse into this like secret lifelong prep, you know, from Sally, that eventually from Grover that was going on without Percy realizing it. But what I really loved most about this is the breathe message becomes the bookend of the episode. Because later, when Percy is hanging out in the foul waters. In the old Mississippi.

Yeah. and gets that it's all right. Just breathe. Trust yourself. Just breathe message. This is like, and we'll talk about what's happening more in that scene when we get to it later. But like, I do think it's relevant here to say that that moment is a massive Percy Poseidon, Percy Bad Dad breakthrough moment. And for the show to make sure that Sally was present.

still through that specific language choice was like really awesome because it's not only another way to show us you know what he's hearing it's very clear in the book that he thinks it sounds like his mother it sounds like you know we're hearing that in the show too

so she's present there but like the idea that that just breed lesson could be something that connected this family that never got to be together and that in this moment where his father is finally reaching out quite literally

for that plume of water. Yeah. To be there and be present, that the most important thing that actually breaks through is his mother's words and the words that he shared with her. Love that.

I thought, I've been, I've been much less on TikTok lately because I deleted it off my phone. So I've deleted all social media off my phone, actually, since it's been a couple weeks. But the, that's not going to hold. We do this for a living. we need our social media, but it was a nice little holiday break. But I did get served like a few Percy Jackson TikToks.

And one of my favorites that I saw was someone was pointing out that, you know, Percy learns about burnt offerings and this is how you communicate with the gods and blah, blah. And the first thing he tries to do is talk to his mom, that he takes this thing that is so like big and sacred. And this is for the gods. And he's like, I want to talk to Sally Jackson, you know, and it's just like so beautiful. And this beautiful flashback, this dream gets twisted into a nightmare.

Yes. And it is, we've already seen this nightmare set up before. It is so much harder to see it with little baby Percy Jackson and his rash guard. Like, it's just calling for his mom. It's so upsetting. the forbidden child attracts attention the forbidden hero well they attract doom she is coming um and i love the way that whoever this hooded figure is do we know who it is we won't say but like whoever this hood and figure is in the nightmare is already incepting into percy

similar to this conversation we were having about like annabeth and shame and all this or stuff like that, that whatever happens is his fault. The forbidden child attracts. The forbidden hero attracts. Like, they are the one, the active verb belongs to you. You are the one doing that. It's not like the shitty gods pursue. It's the child attracts.

It's your fault. Whatever happens is your fault. And what I love about this Sally Flack. is that in the book, in this nightmare scene in the book, he sees a vision of his mom, right, in hell. Quote, the little hero, an amuse voice echoed far down in the darkness too weak, too young, but perhaps you will do. The voice felt ancient, cold and heavy. It wrapped around me like sheets of lead. They have misled you, boy, it said, barter with me. I will give you what you want. A shimmering image hovered over the void, my mother, frozen at the moment. Frozen at the moment.

much she dissolved in a shower of gold. So, like, the fact that... Your temptation. It's a temptation barter with me, right? But, like, I think it's so much more interesting to show, as you say, Sally in this, like, active try to train Percy for life role, rather than, like, here's the bait. Your mom is bait. It's like, here's your mom as an active, important, involves part of your childhood. I hope we keep getting Sally. flashbacks. I hope we keep getting more memories. Every episode. I also there was a at the

red carpet premiere the actress who play as Sally was being interviewed on the red carpet and they asked her sort of like what she thought of Walker and he was being interviewed right next to her and she just sort of like reached out to him and he like made this little like sad pouty face and like put his like head on her shoulder like mom

like it was so unbearably sweet. It's very much working on me. Whatever they're trying to do it's working on me. We're on a train. I love a train. How do you feel about a train, Mallory Rubin?

I mean, come on. When I worked in New York, I'm from Baltimore, and I would take the Estella Express routinely for weekend visits home, and I would always pretend I was on the Hogwarts Express. Oh, yeah. Just looking for the Hogwarts. I'm looking for the trolley witch. Yeah. I am a more of like Orient Express person, but like, yeah. I love a train.

I specifically, the, I think it was the California Zephyr. I don't know. They all have very romantic names, the Amtrak train lines, but I take the Amtrak home from college of free summer when I would do summer session from Davis to Berkeley. Train life hasn't been a part of my West Coast experience, and it's something I need to rectify.

It was a big part of my East Coast life. But I've heard wonderful things. What's the line from L.A. San Diego. I've heard beautiful things about that. Oh, yeah. Well, especially during Comic-Con when everyone's like in their cosplay and they're just like just imagine

just the train is jam packed full of L.A. people in their cosplay going to Comic-Con. It's great. The thing that I think about a lot is how they have said for years they were going to build a light rail from up here down to you in L.A. and it's the biggest disaster.

That is someday someone has to be, Adam McKay has to make a movie about the California light rail disaster. And how there is a stretch of it for but it's like Bakersfield to like somewhere else in the middle of nowhere that no one would ever want to go too quickly. Oh. All right.

My apologies to Bakersfield. I spent a lot of time there though. I know what I'm talking about. They have. Okay. Never mind. Percy wakes up from the same year. Yes.

And they're on the train and he asked Santa Betts about Thalia, the last forbidden kid. And they start talking. This idea of like earning friendship, trust and love. Percy is not about it. Right? He says, I got to say that doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

And Annabeth says, what does it make sense to you? Persis is the way you guys all talk, the way the gods want us to think. Got to burn an offer to get a parent's attention. Got to beat up on clergy is just to get my father to admit he's my father. It isn't supposed to work that way. People who are close to you aren't supposed to treat you that way. And I love that that speech feels like. a little bit of Sally and a little bit of like Medusa also.

Definitely. Right? It's not supposed to work this way. Yeah. The way that you think is fine is not fine, you know? Yeah. Like coming on the heels of that Medusa interaction. And also like Luke's comments to Percy at camp, you know, this like early exposure to

the resentment that people feel. And like that resentment is we are gaining more access. to how Percy feels about it as we read the stretch of the book and like hearing that here. You know, the more I thought about it, I resented Poseidon for never visiting me, never helping my mom, never even sending a lousy child support check. He'd only claimed me because he needed a job done. Like, Percy's right to say that this isn't how people who in theory should love you or protect you or care for you are supposed to behave. but the story is very much built around examining a family unit that functions this way. It's great when the kid that comes into the episode and is like, it's always been a family story.

And that's what's very like Thor. Families can be tough. You know, like this is what this family is and like parsing that and figuring out your particular relationship to it. And who has changed enough for you to like learn to love and accept? and what is an ongoing source of resentment for you is like a central focus, an area of examination. I like that Annabeth and Percy are kind of moving in opposite directions at this point of the story where when we meet Annabeth,

you know, that reply to Medusa that we heard earlier, it's like, you're a liar and my mother is just. And we're like very close to seeing that that is not for Annabath having to accept because it touches her directly, that that is not true. And so then when you have a personal experience, experience, what does that mean for how you, do the scales come off your eyes in terms of what you're willing to accept about other people and their experiences? I think that we like Percy as this sort of like outsider questioning their systems and what

they believe is the way to do things. But what's also true is like when he is talking about Annabeth, it's like, it's not like this. He's talking as someone who grew up with this unconditional love from his mother, whereas Annabeth grew up with. a goddess mother who never talks to her and I guess gave her a ball cap one time and you know a dad who like like a classic fairy tale married someone else and then kicked her out of the house didn't kick her out but she felt like she was not welcome she was a burden she wasn't a gift she was a gift initially when her mother gave her to her dad and then she became the curse and that's like the interesting gift curse binary that she was talking about and even that that

though was like softened a little bit in the show the like well I was a gift for my dad initially until I wasn't a gift for this new partner because in the book it's like when he got me he asked Athena to take me back and raise me at Olympus because he was too busy with his work she wasn't happy about that she told him heroes had to be raised by their moral parent it's just like a transaction like she is an object and a transaction yeah you have to no you have to raise it's like here I got your gift but also you this is now your responsibility I can't really Are you kidding? I'm gonna look at you a puppy.

What are you talking about? I got you a puppy. You gotta walk it though. Yeah, you're the human. Like you do what I say and this is the thing I'm telling you to do. Why are you not more grateful? And for like that to be Annabat's relationship to both of her parents and then to be like to be made to feel even less welcome in that initially already reluctant home, just horrible. It's horrible.

And so in the show. she says it isn't the gods who think that way it's everybody but at least with the gods you know the rules show them respect they'll be in your corner no matter what right so it's like okay if i can't get this like unconditional love i hear tell about at least i can understand how to like earn respect through valor like key motivator for her you mentioned this quote already but i'll read the the full passage because she says when talking about going on a quest in the book she says the real world is where the monsters are that's where you learn whether you're any good or or not. Percy's voice, if I didn't know better, I could have sworn I heard doubt in her voice. You're pretty good with that knife, I said. You think so? Anybody who can piggyback ride a fury is okay by me. I couldn't really see, but I thought she might have smiled.

So Percy is instantly, in that exchange in the book, which comes after the bus, a source of that unconditional support. He's immediately giving it to her. similar to what he says in the show that you already mentioned this like you've done more for me in a few days than my dad has ever done right he's immediately like you're great are you kidding me you're so good at what you do and this is something that she is absolutely thirsty for um right in in this world where she has been cast aside cast out so who are you in the scene are you firsty asking questions on the floor are you Annabeth is

answer questions. Or are you? I'm Grover. Hungry Grover. Yeah. Really hungry and pissed off that he's been woke with up. Hell. I'm trying to sleep. Adam would definitely say I'm Grover. I'm like, any

sound that disrupts my slumber, I will resent for eternity. Definitely Grover. How about you? Well, I'm Percy. When I wake up, I need to make sure that other people are also awake to talk to me. That's what Percy did.

So the gang leaves their compartment to go in search of sacks or whatever. And we get this sort of like environmental conversation which is probably in the book and it has to do with like Rover's motivation, the Seder path, what the Sators are looking for, all this sort of stuff like that. And a few thousand years ago

the god of the wild pan does appear ever since without PAN to protect the natural world. Humans have been trying really hard to chip away at it. The bravest Saders volunteer, became searchers trying to find Pann. None have ever returned. So to your point, we've got these individual motivations. Athena, her need to prove herself to her mom to get that approval, all of that sort of stuff. Grover with this sort of redeem what happened with Dahlia, but also be worthy of the searcher

Saters, be like his uncle Ferdinand unafraid, all of that. and then Percy, the ever-present Sally Jackson element. And so these are just like three kids with like great big wounds, you know, out here in the world trying to heal. And that is a beautiful. I love it. And the other thing that I love about hearing Grover talk about pan and nature and protection, you know, we've chatted a lot in our two pods. far and we will continue to do so about how humans, how mortals, how demigods are ill-used by the gods.

But when we talk about like the nuance and the space in the middle where the story really lives, it's like kind of just as important for us to have these these pulls and checks on like, not all people are good either, you know? Oh, yeah. And so like to see when Grover sad as he explains like what happened to these once really prevalent centaur, what happened? humans. When we see the filth of the river, like in the book, it's literally like soda cans, bags of chips, right? The filth all around you, the way that we have like choked out the life

of our planet. And so when Percy is learning- Grover's reaction, grows reaction to like the bison skulls inside the arch. Yes, yeah. And he has that like agonizing moment of like, you know, just because we're pray, doesn't mean we have to be helpless and like how like how it pains him to see all of this this bloody history all around all around him and when Percy is learning about Pan and the the Seder tradition of searching and like this idea that nobody has ever made it back and Percy is like absolutely dumbfounded that this is something that Grover would want to do and asks why and there's this great little line where Grover says I have to

to believe that, Percy, meaning that he can return, that he could succeed, right? That he could do this. He could achieve something. You can find him. Every searcher does. It's the only thing that keeps us from despair when we look at what humans have done to the world. Like, this is a character whose life is defined by protecting demigods, protecting humans.

And the defining pursuit of his life is actually necessary because of the way that they have destroyed something sacred to him. That's like an incredibly rich and complex dynamic for one of our main characters. I just, I really, I love Grover. I love. Wonderful. I love his little horns. We got, we're going to L.A. on the same track ride.

We are two days out from L.A. is what we are told in the show. That plant gets derailed literally, huh? Okay. Anyway, in the books, I'm not going to say it just in case people feel it's a spoiler. in the books at this point, we know where exactly in L.A. They're supposed to be going. They seem to be keeping it a mystery in the show, so I will honor that. But I wanted to ask you, L.A. resident, if you were to pick one place in L.A.

that you're like, yeah, that's definitely the hell math. That's definitely how I get to Hades. What would you pick. What an incredible question. It has to be, I think, a point where at least two freeways meet. I was going to say, I was going to say you can't do that because that's, that's so good, omens. Like, you can't, you can't, you can't pick. It's got to me.

You can't pick the free rate and the 401 and the 405 meet or like the five in the dead. It just has to be. I feel like no other answer is terrible. Okay. All right. What about you? You, you visited L.A. enough to have an opinion.

Oh, it's just like the most insufferable club where like the worst phonies are. These are not things I have. any exposure to, so I wouldn't have even thought to pick that. But I've seen them on television shows. Great idea. Don't they seem bad? Okay. We have not spoiled anything about where the hell mouth is in L.A.

You'll find out for yourself. All right. I thought of you instantly. The moment I saw him, Gata from Battlestar Galacta is here. I shrieked. I shrieked. I'm sure you did. I'm sure you did.

Adam and I like a gasp. It's like, holy shit, Gata's here. I liked when Percy was looking at him and was like, how long until we find out he's like a werewolf or something? Because I had the same thought. I'm like, surely, this is my nose. This is like a red herring.

A casting red herring situation where they put data here so that we'd be like, well, that's the monster this episode, obviously. But it wasn't. It's Susan Cryer. Who's an actress I've seen and like, but like you knew that a kidnap was coming.

You knew it couldn't be him. But you're like, but still. You know the mother of monsters and the chimera are coming. if you've read the book, but still, I was like, why is Gata here? Gata's here. Gata is a train cop, which is the thing that I just found out existed as I was writing the notes for this episode. That the Amtrak has his own police force. Because I was like, why is there, why were there police already on the train was the question that I had?

But the train cops just exist. There are train cops and they're just on your trains sometimes. And so, yeah, Gata is one of them. of them. The real monster, though, is Susan Cryer as Akina, aka the mother of monsters. Quick Greek mythology corner on Akina. If you

grew up with the everyone I know pronounces it differently, but I always said the Dahliares, but you can pronounce however you want, the big yellow Greek mythology book that a lot of people grew up with. The Akidna illustration was so wild because it was her like suckling all of her monster babes.

And like, and they're all labeled. so it's like chimera like vulva it's like it's pretty disturbing but listen uh even if you've never heard of a kidna surely you've heard of her work let me tell you some serberus hellhound ever heard of it that's a kiddous okay uh the lornean hydra the hydra the many-headed hydra you cut one off money sprowned its place a kidna's worth okay but to me and lion the lion that uh if you ever seen hercules the lion's head on his head uh he killed a lot of akinness children Hercules did a lot of damage to Akinda's whole brood. The eagle that plucks out Prometheus's innards.

Yep, Akina did that. And of course, the chimera, who we meet in this episode, among many, many other things. Productive. Yeah, she and Typhon just like really went at it. And they're like, how many animal combinations can we put together? Akina was believed to represent the natural rotting and decay of the earth. she represented the stagnant foul-smelling water of the Mississippi, slime disease and sickness. All right.

So I love this casting of Zanquire because, again, when Akina shows up even more briefly, because she only shows up at the art. Like when she shows me even more briefly in the book, they're like, yeah, this like horrible fat like the woman. Like I love that she shows up and she's like this like sugar and spice Karen, this like prissy little. called the cops. I'm going to be condescending to you about how you didn't have parental, the parental guidance you needed and this is what it takes to be a mother. I love this character's, Ishin. What did you think? Fantastic. The initial, it's okay. I'm a mom. Really good. Really good. The, you know, we're missing the, the pink poodle time

that got us the train fair in the first place. We're deprived of that. So wonderful to be with our little carrier here and quickly start to wonder what that what that growl is is pointing toward. This whole scene was really. This whole setup was fun. Yeah. I like that Percy is ready to talk his shit. Like, it's like when a kid doesn't, you know, this isn't your fault. But be that as a man, you have to bear the burden of your parents' mistakes. And Percy's like, listen. we've met a lot of monsters and we've sent them all packing. It's just like, obviously he's about to get a little bit of a reality check,

but I liked the trash talk boasting. I like that energy. What do you think of this echo of like Medusa saying we're not our parents after all? Yeah. And Akitna says you're going to have to bear the burden of your parents to seek together. I just like the way that we're like keeping ever present, this thing that we've already discussed of like, how much demigods are forced to pay for who their parents are. Hercules is the best example of this.

One of my, like, if you ever, like, what's a good example of disification? I will say the best example of disinformation is in the Disney version of Hercules, a movie that I love, they make a Hera,

this is Hercules loving, doting mother. Whereas in actuality, Hera's, uh, like, anytime Zeus fuck someone and a child is born, and Harris like, I'm going to kill that baby.

I'm going to kill that baby. That's all she ever wants to do. Or I'm going to kill that woman. Turn her into a cow or I'm going to kill her. So this idea of like, you got to, you got to bear the responsibility. Bear a burden of your parents' mistakes today. Yeah, it's, you know,

not everybody can allow themselves to believe, as our beloved John Snow did, that Nidomba could just be accepted by all, you know? beginning of season seven, I will not punish the son for his father's sins. Well, like, that's not, that's not how it works. And the, uh, nidumba. Like, just, you just gave me really strong, like, that's the name I haven't heard in a long time. Netumba.

It's always just to make me laugh and kills me. But, you know, all right. Jum chal. Jum. I love the way you spelled jumchali in the notes. This has always been a family. family story, that line, that idea we discussed, great. There's that, there's that and how inescapable the sins of the father, the sins of the

parents are, how, of course, like, defining that is going to be for these kids, these demigods, like, definitionally. But there's also this, one of the other things we love to talk about, to the monsters were the monsters element at play in this stretch, right? Like the fact that echinace says, monster, that's an odd word. Runs through the family history, right? My grandmother is your great grandmother. But also then says to my eye, the demigod is the more dangerous creature.

Disrupted, violent. If I exist for anything, it's to stand in the way of monsters like you. It's my favorite line of the episode. So good. She might as well have said to the monsters where the, monsters. Like that's basically what she said. It made me really happy.

Yeah. And like of course for us in our trio, this is like patently deranged. But from her perspective, that is complete. That is true. That is valid. That is real. That is the orienting principle of her quest and her pursuit. Hercules killed like half her children.

Like when she gathers around her little monster babies, around the fire at night, what stories, the horrible monsters that she tells of are like, like Hercules, et cetera. So, you know, your purses, your Jasons, your thesis. Yeah. You know that great Melisandra, the fowls, the flavor moment where she's like, you can't let the lamb see the knife. I love how Akidna is like, I want you to see the knife, I want you to think about the

knife, I want the knife to work its way into every fiber of your being so that you are terrified. Like, it's essential to the hunt. your fear, your doubt, your confusion, there is this sick, perverse element that she is presenting to them as attentive parenting? Because that's what a good mother does for her children, not that you would know?

Like, what a galling, freeming. It was, I mean, yeah, it's absolutely shitty, like, so perfectly, um, Minnesota nice. Like, just, like, horrible thing to say. It was fascinating about that shot or reverse shot, as I rewatched it a couple times because you can kind of you're behind her head so you can't really see where she's looking and her hand is like a tiny bit in frame and I was trying to figure out if she was talking to Annabeth or if she was talking to Percy.

You know what I mean? And if she's talking to Annabeth, she may have a point because Athena's just about to be real bad mom, but she's talking to Percy. Fuck you. That's Sally Jackson you're talking about. Like get my mom's name out of your mouth. Fuck you. I yeah tentacle stabby tentacle shoots out of the pet carrier

classic person gets stab andabeth does some stabbing it was ever this like this is just their roles okay um and we're off to the arch we're off the off the train heading towards the arch i really love the puddle of water reveal of of the arch that we get here uh water obviously so important to the whole episode also a nice budget saver to do it that way. Fun directorial flourish. In the books they wind up here because they have a three-hour train layover, which I don't think trains have layovers, but maybe they do. Maybe they're switching trains. I don't know. They have a three-a-train layover. And Annabeth's like, you know what? I love architecture. Let's go to the arch. We're on the run, but let's go to the arch. And I

like that this is a necessity rather than a whim. The whim makes Annabeth look kind of dumb in the books. So I like that it's different here. Yeah, it is very odd. Where they're like, let's just, yeah, let's take in the sights. We've got some time. It's like, does this seem safe? And that is, of course, where they then encounter the kidda.

So not safe, it turned out. The presentation of the arch as a temple to Athena, this idea of the, quote, monument to the power of perfection. And how Annabeth thinks in the book about her desire to be, like you said, an architect and to build something that could be thought of this way and what a way to honor the gods, but also just like math and the genius at play. And then also, by the way, it's earthquake proof so decided. So you're a dumb shitty dad. Your dad can't wreck it.

Absolutely wonderful. I love that. But even just like little things like the reason they're not with him. So that's different. but the reason they're not with him for the key conflict at the top is because they ran out of room and it's, you know,

you got to wait for the next car to go back down and then, oh shit, Percy's alone up top versus like a more active. They made it a big hero moment instead. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that like something that is clear in the book or clear if you know a bit more about mythology

is the rivalry between Poseidon and Athena that goes beyond the Medusa stuff, the naming, how they both wanted Athens to be their city and Athena won the gift giving contest or whatever the case may be, they have long time enmity. So, um, they must really like olives. Great book ones.

Great ones. I always was like, really an olive tree Athens? Oh my God. Great moment. I love an hour. But, uh, this idea of the monument to the power of perfection.

Yep. And the ideal way to show your love for Athena. And the way that we have to like think about. how Annabeth is so certain that she has to make herself a monument to the power of perfection in order to get her mother's attention. She has to be a perfect mathematically balanced structure with no flaws in order to earn her mother's love is very devastating. Grover wonders off to check the Amtrak schedule somewhere in the arch. I don't really understand where is there a computer. I don't know.

they don't have phones in the book they make it clear that they don't have phones because I guess you can be tracked easier if you're using technology fine I can buy that but it just seemed like a convenient moment to get Annabeth and Percy alone for it to be like I'll go check the Amtrak schedule somewhere don't know where but we get this like lovely moment where Percy can see that perhaps Annabeth was right about showing devotion to gods and loyalty they get in return says we needed a safe place and your mom had one waiting But he also explains that his relationship to his dad is different and much newer. Quote, I don't want anything from him.

He's had his chances. Honestly, as you said, you've done more for me in the past few days than my father has done in my entire life. They're cute. They're friends. But did you notice that he's getting paler and pastier and sweatier? That is because he has poisoned. They shove him in a fountain and try to splash some water on him. This is genuinely hilarious when Walker's Club was like, I think it's working.

That's really funny. Just incredibly amusing and cute. I love this. It's also really clever precursors the final set piece. Like, we know that the river water is going to heal him if the fountain water couldn't. But first we have to go back in the arch. And this is where we get that interaction about like what Akina whispered inside Annabeth's head about Athena.

Isaiah, will we please play this clip? What did it kidna say to you? She said my impertinence wounded my mother's pride. And that that will be my doom. Inpertinence, what kind of... Induce's head? I embarrassed my mother. But I'm the one who sent the head to Olympus.

I signed the notes. And I went along with it. It embarrassed her. Now she's angry. Guys, what are we going to do? She isn't going to help us when we're... get to the top to say first. Like, imagine, she's going to save, it.

It's not just like, like, Annabeth's life is in danger. And she's like, I did, I worked my whole life to be a monument to perfection to get my mother's praise and attention. And I failed to stop one cheeky little asshole from sending a gorgon head to Olympus. And now my mom is so mad. She's going to let a monster in tide of her shrine, a temple to her. and let that monster maybe kill me. Important reality check

to recognize how fickle that aid and acceptance might be. Yeah. This is brutal. This is a very sad moment. Her defense of Athena aged like absolute milk in the span of one episode.

It's tough. And it's just that moment where they see the shadow of the chimera because we had, we get this line earlier that they'll be safe in the temple because a monster can't penetrate and then it's like the recognition

of like, well, this could only be happening if she allowed it. Like, rough. Rough. Really, really tough stuff. Things don't get easier for Annabeth because when they're up top and they're trying to figure out where to go and what to do, she tries to stay behind to buy time for Percy and Grover.

Very brave. And we have to remember what Grover said about how they lost Thalia. Grover says Thalia turned back to fight to buy her friend some time. Her Sater, protector, try to stop her, but she wouldn't listen. It's like me, but I won't tell you that right now. tried. She wouldn't listen. So this happens to Annabeth and Grover all over again when Percy Annabeth tries to stay behind, play the hero, be the Thalia. But Percy, in his very weakened state, is able to physically swing them around and fool them and get them out of there so that he stays.

And he plays the hero. And he's operating under the assumption that no one is coming to help him. Very, Steve Rogers, I can do this all day. Not even the same. the river might save him from poison. Quote, Poseidon's never helped me before. He wasn't going to start now. It's sort of how Percy is feeling in the books at this moment. And Akina is taunting Percy about this, you know, we have to assume that she was talking about Poseidon earlier.

Quote, so unfair you never had a chance did you if only someone cared enough for you to provide you with one. Like, but she's not thinking about something. She's only thinking about Poseidon. This is something we talk about a lot when we talk about Voldemort and other people, not paying attention to the ordinary, to the everyday, and how much of an impact and importance that can have for someone.

And so in this book, this moment is much more about a leap of faith for Percy because he's dangling right over the river, which is not geographically accurate, but whatever, Rick, that's fine. And in the book, Akandis has if you were the son of Poseidon, you would not fear water, jump for a ejection. Show me that water will not harm you. Jump and retrieve your sword. Prove your bloodline. Yeah, right, I thought I read somewhere that jumping in a water from a couple stories up was like jumping in a solid asphalt. From here, I'd splatter on impact. The Cameras, mouth glowed red, heating up for another blast. But you have no faith akin to told me. You do not trust the gods. I cannot blame you, little coward. Better you die now. The gods are faithless. The poison is in your heart.

but so this is all about Poseidon in this moment but I'm convinced that as Percy is dangling there he's thinking about in the show this Percy is thinking about his mom yeah right yeah absolutely yeah I love that that quote the poison is in your heart because it is like quite literally true right the poison is working its way to heart but also this like this larger idea that the poison of this legacy and like what you are a part of very Asoka Anakin long line. You know, like, what are you tied up in here? And again, this is what I was alluding to earlier. Like, I love the Percy loses this fight. It just feels so crucial because, you know, his inner monologue here is so I'd gotten lucky a few times before. Against the thing like the chimera, I had never stood a chance.

Those poor people in the arch were probably toast. I couldn't protect them. I was no hero. Like, this doubt and this sense of his own inadequacy. Because see, that feeling of abandonment, that his father is not there for him, that he didn't help him, that the one person who would have been there for him to help him and guide him, his mother was ripped away from him. Like, all of that builds, right?

It's like an exponential effect on how helpless and alone he feels before Poseid and the passage I read earlier about Percy's resentment is after he's been claimed. There's a passage before he knows who his father is, but his father's Poseidon where he says in the book, I started to understand Luke's bitterness and how he seemed to resent his father, Hermes. So okay, maybe God's had important things to do. But couldn't they call once in a while for thunder or something? Dionysus could make Diet Coke appear out of thin air. Why couldn't my dad, whoever he was, make a phone appear? And there's this like through line of the early chapters of the book where Percy, Percy's mom is like, he left before you were like, you never, he didn't meet you.

And Percy's like, I've got this, I can see this smile. Like, I know, I feel like he saw me as a baby. And he has this like thing he's holding onto and cherishing. And then that's like just subsumed by this bitterness. He couldn't even call. Like, if you're wondering why he couldn't even call, what part of you would believe that he would help you in a situation like this, right? And so for that cyclone of water to reach up and save him,

even though it's quick, like it all unfolds pretty quickly. I love that Percy's first reaction is not like, his first reaction is I failed. I couldn't beat the creature. These people are going to die. It's my fault. I wasn't good enough. I have nothing. I'm alone.

And then his second reaction is panic. My foot is stuck. I'm going to die. I'm going to drown. It's not like he's instantly like, I'm the son of the sea god. Of course I can breathe over water. Why would he think that? Because that has not been a part of his life.

Nobody has been there to remind him. His mom was there to remind him that he would have to be ready to protect himself, that he would have to be ready to try to survive. And so, like, that's his instinct, right? Like, I've got to try to swim and stay afloat, not let me take a breath. I'll be okay. And it's like, even though the episode ends on this really resounding, uplifting, hopeful note, there's a lot of, like, trauma and heartache and loss and grief that is present here in a very quick sequence.

And it's quite effective. It's so good. And I think chief among that is that that inner monologue that you read from the book where he's like those poor people, that self-blame just takes me back to that nightmare language of like forbidden child attracts attention,

forbidden hero, will they attract doom, right? Like this is your fault. It's not Athena's fault for letting her in the arch. It's not a kidness fault for doing this. It's not, you know, it's your fault for being a lot. which you're not supposed to be.

Right. What a great show. But guess what he can be is in the water? Cool. New power set unlocked. Let's do Easter eggs. I don't have a ton of Easter eggs that I have rounded up, but I will shout out the pink poodles on baby Percy's swim trunks,

which feel like they're meant to be acknowledged the pink poodle that was cut from the book. How about you? Mal, anything? that's a great one I this is a I don't even know if this really counts because it pays off just absolutely immediately because we do get the trip up the empire still state building at the end of the third

episode but I loved when we're on our our Grover voiceover drive through the city and he's talking about the quest and then evokes Olympus that we see the reflection in the window I enjoyed that I was like what is this candy this must be something and I could not figure out for nobody knows

No one on the internet knows why this candy is here. Will it pay off before the season's over? I sure hope. If it doesn't, then I guess what we can just say is that, is it a reminder that these are children? And when it comes to getting road snacks, she's like, why not a ton of these?

That's why I would do still do this day. I love you. All right. It's funny for me to say it, but I'll say it. It's time for wig watch. TM with Joanna Robinson. That's me. DM. Do you wear wigs?

I don't hate the snakes. I don't love the snakes. I don't know that they could have been definitely worse. I was reminded of Ova Thurman in the movie and how bad that whole

thing is. Very, very bad. I knew your daddy, like, very bad. So comparatively, and I think it's meant to look like sort of braided hair or whatever. So I get what was gay we're going for. Just not sure they fully got there. How did you feel about the snakes?

It's not really a wig. Genuinely and sincerely, my first thought was I'm awaiting wigwatch T.M. Joanna Robinson, T.M. I have some questions. Yeah, I have some questions. But the hat I loved. I, like, loved the hat.

I thought it was so cool. The hat, the veil were great. Yeah. A really cool way to like, let us see as much of her face as possible while she's like giving all those speeches really good stuff. Okay. That brings us to Book Reader Corner. So if you have not, if you don't want any spoilers whatsoever, uh, now is the time to jump

off and we will see you for Ipdraft on Wednesday. But if you do want to stick with us, here we go into book reader quarter. All right. Um, we don't have to cover all of this, but like, is there anything you want to point out about like Luke or the Kronos dream sequence or the prophecy or. or is that blackjack, you know, that you want to talk about here? I think Is That Blackjack was a big, rightly so, a big source of internet discourse after the shit shoveling for over sequence, which was, what do you, dude, what have you been eating? Great stuff.

This show really very interested in gastro and intestinal matters. It's I, you know, we don't know if this is Percy's eventual pal but it's fun to wonder and I like the idea that this could be Blackjack. That's a really fun thing to think about. If you had to, if you had to say right now

definitively is this Blackjack, what would you? Where would you come down? Yeah, your nay. It's going to be hard to prove that it's not. I mean, you know? Yeah. Unless when we meet Blackjack, they're like, it is I, Blackjack

Very different from that other horse You saw previously Yeah, maybe Grover would be like Hey We've got to share together We've done shit Oh, Pegasus Great stuff

What else in a book corner How you feel about You know, we get another Luke's Luke moment here How you feeling about the ongoing Luke set up? It'll be a while before Luke is back I thought episode three was really well done in terms of like, they're just not tipping their hand at all in a way that I really appreciate, you know?

I thought, you know, like episode two was like kind of there, but episode three, it's like really not. And that's great. You're trusting your audience. And I think that's wonderful. Yeah. And it's like this subtle thing to go from the friend omen into like this just really heartwarming exchange where you're sort of like,

this is a French. You know? There it is. On the prophecy front more broadly, like I didn't really want to get into any of the other, even though they're dotted throughout this stretch of the book and thus I think probably fair game, but just in case the show is like waiting to mention more of this stuff,

you know, there's so much in the book by this point in the story, like forget everything that's to come about this larger looming prophecy. You know, you've got in terms of like Anabeth and the quest, you've got that great moment where Luke says, I hate prophecies. First he says, what do you mean? His face twitched around the scar. Let's just say I messed things up for

everybody else. The last two years, ever since my trip to the garden, and it gets the more relevant part here. Annabeth's been dying to get out into the world. She pestered Kairon so much. He finally told her. He already knew her fate. He'd had a prophecy from the Orrin. He wouldn't tell her the whole thing, but he said Annabeth was destined to go on a quest. It wasn't destined to go on a quest yet. She had to wait until somebody special came to camp.

Now, we got like a version of that in episode two when Luke said to Percy, like, there would come a quest that not even Chiron could prevent, you know, like there's been some of that, but not quite as overt. And I think mostly I was intrigued by the absence of that in the Chiron Percy, you're setting out on your quest. you need to see the Oracle exchanges and even something like Riptide, like Riptide is just present in the show. Like the gifting of Riptide, Percy, that's a gift from your father.

I've kept it for years, not knowing you were who I was waiting for, but the prophecy is clear to me now. You are the one. Or when they're talking about, you know, the master Bolden who has it, if Poseidon doesn't have it, where is the thing? I believe I know. Kyron's expression was grim. Part of a prophecy I had years ago.

Well, some of the lines make sense to me now. Or when Percy asked Kyron if he's known all along that he was aside and son. And he says, I had my suspicions. As I said, I've spoken to the Oracle too. I got the feeling there was a lot he wasn't telling me about his prophecy. But I decided I couldn't worry about that right now. After all, I was holding back information too. So I'm wondering when the show will bring more of that great prophecy into season one or how much of that will be like on hold. I'm kind of interested in the fact that that hasn't been as present in the show as it has been to the book in the book at this point. Something I think I really appreciate, you know, they were,

as far as I know, they were not certain they were going to get a season two. Right. Right. And so, I wonder how much they were trying to tell like a story that would feel contained to a season if indeed they only got one season, you know. Which is smart. You know, don't leave all of these strands that feel like they're like not clarified and then you could have this little like jewel box of a thing that exists which is this adventure that these three kids come on um i want to i didn't read a lot of emails this week and we'll get into more next time please keep them coming we appreciate all of them but this one email from connor i've just been has just been on my mind so i'm reading it here um musical episode theory connor wrote i have a possible theory for episode six of percy jacks

and the olympians when looking at the writing credits season i noted that uh joe trace the book writer for the musical adaptation. Lighting Thief is credited. It's very episode, in fact. He's also working on episode four, but I mainly want to focus on episode six because that is the Vegas episode. My theory is that with Trace, I, sorry, I do not know how to perhaps perhaps the person's name. Working on this episode, we may perhaps get some musical elements, the musical's composer. Rob Rukiki is not currently credited anywhere, but Rick Ryarden is known to be fond of the stage adaptation. I just think the perfect way for

our crew to be in Vegas would be with a musical number or two. Also based on the a promotional image and you attach it to the email, Lin-Mewal Miranda's Hermes appears to be at a card table. Overall, I'm hoping all this leads to a musical extravaganza in the Vegas episode. The reason I put this here in Book Corner is like the Vegas, this is the Lotus Eater's sequence. And so like that Vegas Lotus Eater, like that no better time for a musical extravaganza then this.

So. You're going to be in heaven. I don't think I don't, I will not be mad or disappointed if it's not. And if anything, I would say probably like one, max two. But we're not good. I don't think we're going to go full episode. But like, yeah, like. A lot of sequence though.

Why not? Lynn's here, not just to hum along to elevator music shortly, you know, stuff like that. So I like this theory from Connor. I thought that would be fun too. Oh. I hope this is true. Because you want good things for me. Thank you.

I do. I want you to know joy. I love this. I have not asked, I have not asked Daphne this, nor will I. I am not poking around for her. I did ask her what her favorite book was. And I asked her, yeah, I think she said,

five. Anyway, she was just talking. I was curious how much they were, thinking ahead. But I haven't really been grilling her because, I don't know, it's a friendship. But also just like, I don't know. I don't want to like get fingerprints all over this show. I want to experience it as they want us to experience it. So yeah. Versa Jackson. Wonderful. All right. I can't wait to talk about it again. No, I'm just really excited for the rest of the season. I'm hyped to keep potting about it. It's been, it's been,

it really has been like not only a fun and enjoyable and rich show, but like a really, interesting show and adaptation to talk about. I'm, again, sad that we only have four episodes left, but I can't wait to watch them and talk about them with you. I know. I'm really excited. So our plan is to come back.

We'll be here later this week. We'll be back next week to talk about two more episodes of the show is sort of the overall plan right now. I feel like we might be like, let's do seven and eight individually. We might not be able to wait. But we're going to do five and six together. We might. we might start going.

I was thinking that I didn't want to say it. I didn't want to like speak to you. Don't know. We might. I don't go to week on this. I don't think we're going to be able to resist. I, that's probably true. Thanks everyone for the work on this episode.

Ginger Raim Paul, as always. You know me at dinner on on the social as always. Isaiah, likely for stepping in for producing this episode because of my aforementioned horrible illness. I appreciate you. Isaiah stepping in for a breeze. little two and a half hour five. Yeah.

Just a quick one for you, Isaiah. Isaiah, you sent us a one hour calendar invite, remember? This is our gift to you. Happy new year. All right. We'll see you all later this week. Bye.