House of R - ‘Rings of Power’ Season 2 Primer and Favorite Moments From Season 1 | House of R

Episode Date: August 27, 2024

It’s time to go back to Middle-earth! Mal and Jo (Have you heard of ’em, lad?) get ready for ‘Rings of Power’ Season 2 by going through their favorite moments from Season 1 (06:43). Khazad-dûm | The Dwarves (06:56) The Harfoots (18:28) Lindon (29:17) Numenor (42:57) Orcs | Uruk | Adar (56:00) The Southlands | BeforeDor | NoMoreDor (01:06:55) Eregion (01:11:20) The Stranger (01:18:05) Galadriel | Sauron (01:25:55) Hosts: Mallory Rubin and Joanna Robinson Producers: Carlos Chiriboga and John Richter Additional Production: Arjuna Ramgopal Social: Jomi Adeniran Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable internet means everything for your business. And even this podcast, that's why I trust Spectrum Business to keep companies of all sizes connected with internet, advanced Wi-Fi, phone, TV, mobile services, plus 24-7 US-based support. Millions of business owners already trust Spectrum business. So visit Spectrum.com slash business to learn more. Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and making a mess. You don't need Weather Tech floor liners in the summer unless you hit the beach or go camping.

Then you'd want a cargo liner. Or a road trip goes sideways, ketchup goes rogue, ice cream drips. Yeah, you'd be pretty happy about those weather tech seat protectors. So just to be clear as the mud, you're inevitably going to step into the summer. You don't need weather tech unless you plan on doing summer. Visit weathertech.com today. And welcome back to House of R. I'm Joanna Robinson, joining me today fresh from a vacation house on the East Coast. It is encroaching on our vacation time. Mallory Rubin.

Hi, Mallory, how you doing? Joanna, were it easy. It would not require trust. So here we are. There you go. Okay, listen, here's what we're doing today. We're here to give you a primer or primer if you prefer, for season two of Rings of Power. Basically, we're just going to look back. We're going to take a little tour through Middle Earth. Rigs of Power to Bees later this week. We will have our coverage of the first three episodes that are dropping later this week. Citing.

So excited. We're so excited. Three whole episodes to go at the end of this week. So we will have that pod for you later this week. So this is going to be, we're going to saving a lot of our energy for that. So this is going to be like a zippy little. We're going to zoom all over the. map. We're checking in on all the main locations and also some like of the nomadic

friendships if they don't have a location associated with them. We've picked the main things. We've picked nine moments slash people like the nine rings for mortal men. And that's what we're going to be talking about today. We're really excited. We've got clips. We've done our rewatches. We're here to refresh you and sort of like talk about what came before and how that informs what we expect to come in season two. A brief, breezy return. The professors here, we're here, we're excited. Professor is always welcome.

I'm thrilled. I'm delighted to be doing this. I can't wait to be back in Middle Earth together. We're here again with Carlos, who did the Rings of Power run with us last year. So it's like a fun little reunion there. John is a Lord of the Rings obsessive in this year with us. So this is a little nervous. I don't want to be wrong in front of John Richter.

I find it purely comforting. It's like we've got a built-in fact check. Wonderful stuff. You were in a new setup. You have a gorgeous ston. Only just when the Riverside tile expanded. Could I see that you are in an absolutely stunning newly curated office space? This is beautiful.

Absolutely wonderful. It's just I finally decided to unpack my... It was like I moved in. I was in L.A. all summer. And then I was like, hey, what if my office weren't like a bunch of, of packed boxes and a freestanding desk. Well, it looks fantastic. I am a room that humans live in.

And Preston's here. It looks great. He's tiny in the background, but he's still here. I should expect so. Preston is always going to be present for every pod that we ever do. If you're on the road, you're going to take Preston with you, I assume, across your travels. Possibly. I am in like a bedroom, a small bedroom intended for, I think, children in this beach cottage.

and there's no desk. So I'm perched on top of a dresser and there's no room for my legs, which you, Carlos, and John had the privilege of listening to me complain about for no fewer than 17 minutes before we started recording. And so people are like, that looks like even more hunched and gnarled than usual. I thought you were doing a Gallum impression, but that's cool. Yeah. Yeah, it's a hunch perched sort of situation.

But. delicious. Yeah, that's just what I'm going to do, I'll pod. So iconic. All right. So let's let's just get into it. Let's just do it. Let's do it. Quick program reminders, though, before we do that is just to let you know the Midnight Boys, Pugh, Pugh are doing allegedly a mailbag. Very exciting. I've never, I don't think they've ever done like a full mailbag episode. So I'm excited to listen in. It's been a minute. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Butmash is doing Star Wars Outlaws. First impressions of that. So that's exciting for people who play video games. And then, you know, we'll be back, as we said, to cover rings of power at the end of the week. So we're swinging back into fall. It's all happening.

It's all getting into gear. Mallory, how can folks keep track of everything that's happening here and over the ring of verse? Thanks for asking. I would recommend that you follow the pod. Follow House of R on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. Follow the ring of verse on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. follow the ring ofverse on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast while you're at it go follow the ringerverse YouTube channel hit subscribe because you can get full video episodes of house

of our and midnight boys on the YouTube channel and on Spotify delightful stuff you got your phone in your hand already you're at your computer check out the social channels the ringerverse is on Twitter Instagram TikTok etc find us there and then send us an email because the box is open, Hobbits and Dragons at gmail.com. I have to let you know. I haven't shared many of them with you, but we've been getting a ton of emails from people who are so excited to be back in the world of rings of power along with us. This is genuinely true. People really love watching this show with us, and it makes you really happy and a little emotional because we've also gotten tons of emails

from people who have, who are watching Rings of Power just because we're covering it and they don't want to stop listening after House of the Dragon. Love that. So, like, people who were catching up with season one for the first time. We've heard from people genuinely who watched Lord of the Rings for the first time so that they could go on this journey with us. That blew my mind. So several people watched the Peter Jackson trilogy for the first time. How many of them specified whether they watched the theatrical cut or the extended editions?

I think let's just ease people in. Like, you and I are extended edition purists, but let's just go easy on folks. Okay, last one not least. Yeah. We got an email this morning from Molly who let us know that she read all of Lord of the Rings for the first time. Hell yeah, Molly. Just to, like, be into the lore with us. So I think she listened.

She listened to the Andy Circus audiobook. So great stuff. Wonderful stuff. We also, we, Mallory and I were just in Chicago at the Lord of the Rings musical. We're planning to talk about that in a future episode. But we had a great time of the Lord of the Musical. Chicago Shakespeare. Thank you to Chicago Shakespeare for having us.

And thanks to all the bad babies who came up to say hi to us, it was really sweet to meet all of you there. Multiple Michaela's. I know. Many Michaela's. It was wonderful. All right, let's get into it, shall we? I'm calling us nine moments for mortal men.

And because we cannot resist or I cannot resist, reading a little bit of the text of you, we've got a little quote to go with each category. We're starting today in Kazad Doom with the dwarves, quote, fair were the many pillared halls of Khazadoum in elder days before the fall of mighty kings beneath stone. So here we are with the dwarves. Mallory and I picked whatever we wanted to pick

to sort of exemplify these various topics. We do just briefly like maybe you need a little refresher. So we should say, hey, listen, what happened in Khazadoum last season? It was a Battle of Durence, essentially. Elron, the elf, the diplomat elf, was on a mission to get both help building of Great Forge and Regian, and then eventually to mine some mithril to help with some leaf rot over in Linden, and we'll talk about that when we get there. But he, Elron's friendship with Doran, and Doran's relationship with his wife, Disa,

were some of the absolute highlights of season one for us. Duran and Elron, it's very specifically, but Disa is a treasure as well. Um, so I actually this, I actually found it pretty easy to pick clips for all these categories, like off the top of my head pretty easy. This is the only one where I was like actually deeply conflicted. This was the only one where I had multiple, I had multiple picks there from the same episode, but then I ended up with multiple picks in another category after realizing I had made a mistake elsewhere, which I will reveal when we get there. And so I have two of the nine categories where I have two clips, but this was the only one where I intended to.

Casa Doom, a beautiful, wonderful, at the height of their power and beauty, Dwarven City, under the ground, under the mountain. Carlos, I guess, will you start with mine unless we have the same? So they says goodbye then. We do not say goodbye. We say no more. It means more than simply farewell. It means go towards goodness. Is that your moment as well, Mallory?

Do you pick something else? It is. Well, I have two. I have two from this episode, and that was one of them. Should we just play the other one? They feel related to me, and then we could just talk about it. It might be my runner-up that I painfully had to cut. I have-hers-go-for-old.

I have totally no doubt that it is. I always thought you were made dwarvish for an elf. And you are a rather elvish dwarf, Dordian. Son of Dordian. Grandson... Scoff, if you like. Mightiest thing a dwarfs can do is to be worthy of the name of his father. Hmm.

We do have our secret names. For use, only amongst ourselves. We reveal them only to family. Wives, parents, sisters, brothers. You save it, Duren. For the far side. genuinely impossible to pick between those two. They're two of the best moments in the entire show.

Obviously, save it Dorton for the far side. Obviously, it was also my runner-up. Okay, so listen, here's the deal. With Rings of Power season one, having just freshly re-watched it. There are things that work well. There are things that work not as well. And then there are things that are exquisite. And the Dern and Elrond friendship is exquisite.

And every single second with them, I am wrapped. I am sat. I am, like, paying attention so closely. So this brotherhood, this bid for brotherhood when they're both quite sweaty, having, you know, been digging for some mithril. Save it for the far side. Incredible. And then Namarié, it was really hard for me to pick a tune to.

Namarié I picked because part of it was, like, we loved that scene so much. And then a bunch of our listeners just started signing all their emails to Marier to us. And that made me really, like, emotion. Very special. Yeah. I already revealed on social that I, like, cried through most of the Lord of the Rings musical. And the thing that I want to make a bid for here in this section is just to say, I was talking to a friend of mine about an author I love Rainbow Rowland about her books. And we were talking about adapting them and how hard it would be to adapt them because it's so easy to make it saccharin because she's so sentimental but never saccharin.

And I was just like, yes, and that Tolkien is so sentimental, so like unabashedly sentimental and especially in these like male friendships, which we love to celebrate in the original Lord of the Rings and we love to celebrate here. This just like absolutely beautiful bond between two men who like just love each other. So yeah, what do you want to say, Mallory Urban? I as just two perfect moments and two perfect scenes in one of the best episodes of the season. Both of those clips are from the seventh episode of the Penn Ultimate, the eye. And they feel really linked to me because, you know, Papa Duren has refused his son's request to help the elves. And when Duran and Disa see the Mithril's effect on the blight, the leaf blight, and decide, despite having to discuss, despite having to what this would mean, what example it would set to defy not only Durenne's father, but their king.

It's not just an act of defiance then inherent in that it is an act of friendship and fellowship and sound family. And for that to win out, for Duren's love for Elrond to win out over his father's insistence on maintaining these deeply insular ways, it just feels like such an important thing and so central So many of the moments I picked, it felt about fellowship. Very emblematic of a core Tolkienian idea and or a core House of Our idea. Yeah. Sometimes, that was like what I picked in almost every, yeah, in almost every case.

Kind of amazing to rewatch the season and realize how many of our now two-year-old, you know, House of Our Bits, because it's been two years since season one came from this season of TV. That was really special. So like when Duren is saying to his father, because I loved the Duren Duren Duren, scenes as well. And they're like just harrowing argument in the wake of this. And when Duren says, Elrond is as much of a brother to me as if he'd been fired in my own mother's womb. And there's like no greater endorsement of the bond that they have than him saying that out loud and saying it to his father. And of course it is like then the breach for his father. It's the thing that

Duren can't take back. And so like wanting to share that secret name. And then Elron telling him to wait. And then obviously, Nomarie, I just thought, like, go towards goodness was to me. It was very hard for me to pick. This is a classic. Like, here are my 100 top five moments. It's like, here are my 10.

This was my one favorite moment of the season. But like, go toward goodness is like in the running for me. I'll say that probably six times today about other things. And that feels like a real link. Like, go towards goodness and save it for the far side. This promise of what awaits. And how, like, in this story in this world, the thing that gives you the strength

to embrace the promise of what might await is that fellowship that you forge with somebody else because like how could you have the strength to believe in some other possibility on your own? You couldn't.

It would be too hard. You have to have somebody in your life who helps you do that. And like little things in those two scenes, the way that we realize they've picked up each other's languages, right? They're making these real genuine efforts

to embrace other communities, other cultures, other ways of life. And it's just like, Which is something that... So incredible. Doran's father, also named Doran, is sort of dismissive of, like, oh, so you've learned a few words of Stone tongue, right?

Like, good for you. And, you know, but it's like, no, it's... Elrond doesn't have to teach Doran Namaree. He already knows Namaree, you know? And it's just, you know, absolutely, absolutely gorgeous. And in among all of that beauty, I do want to... The last thing I want to do sort of because episode seven is where we kind of leave the dwarf. is that Disa Doren moment.

I just want to shout out when Disa gets a little Lady Macbeth-esque, right? And after Doren has been like... Dissowned, the crest ripped from his chest by his father. And Disa says, you know,

this kingdom is yours and mine. And together we will rule this mountain and all others before our time. is done. That myth real belongs to us, to you and me, and together, one day, we are going to dig. And we were like, oh, no. Oh, no. Too greedily and too deep. Oh, no. It's yours and nine. Just felt a little, you know, wonderfully delivered. So that's the dwarves and cousin doom. Anything else I want to say about that? I love that to that point. You just made like, so many of the really successful moments in season one, because of course, this is a prequel, right?

And so the ability to simultaneously hit this note of promise and possibility and then also like issue some sort of, yeah, harbinger of doom and have those things feel like completely organically entwined was I thought one of the real achievements of the first season. I think the last thing I'll say on this one is like, and just the friendship and the ideas that are present in those two clips that we just heard. It did make me think a lot of the beautiful chat. The version of this pie we did before season one when we did, obviously we hadn't seen Rings of Power yet. that point. So it was just like our favorite Lord of the Rings moments. And we had the pleasure of doing the pod with Brian Cogman. And he spoke so beautifully on that pod about the far green country idea and the nature of like not only that that obviously this like core cherished concept in Tolkien and what it how can mean different things to different people. But then like

how that was so core to the nature of the adaptation and like looking at how it's present in the text, right, with Frodo. And then it's Gandalf and Pip in the film. And, And just like that was really on my mind revisiting those scenes as well. Like, beheld the white shores and beyond them a far green country under a swift sunrise. Like that's what Elrond is saying to Duren here, right? Save it. Save it for the far green country. Save it for the far side.

Save it for whatever. A strange thing to say to a dwarf because only the elves are supposed to go there. You know what I mean? That's the embrace. Yeah, exactly. I love it. Yeah, when we got to the far green country line in the musical, I was just like clutching. And I was like, Brian, I was thinking of Brian so much.

He's really owned that, like, quote for me. Okay. Next, we're going to the Harfoots. Our pal, the Harfoots, not a lot is written in the original text about the Harfoots, so please excuse my very boring quote here, but, quote, The Harfoots were browner skin, smaller and shorter, and they were beardless and bootless. Their hands and feet were neat and nimble,

and they preferred highlands and hillsides. So we're here today to talk about the nomadic, proto-Hobbits, the Harfoots, who love to hide themselves away, which is why they're not sort of in the, on the written record is sort of the idea of how the Harfoots made their way into this story. We meet our pals, Nori, and Poppy,

who we absolutely love. These, one, a very curious, thirsty for adventure, Harfoot and her more cautious friend, Poppy and all of Norrie's family, of course, Poppy has lost her family. We met the leader, the elder, Sadek Burroughs, who unfortunately, and we felt like sort of needlessly lost his life at the end of last season.

We were really bummed to lose Lenny Henry from the cast. And, of course, our best friend, the legend herself, Malva. An icon, genuinely. A true icon. We are Malva's number one fans, I do believe. Okay, so here's the deal. The Harfuts, of course, adopt a stranger. we will talk about, we have our own little section for The Strangers, so we'll talk about him.

But the Harfuss was really an opportunity for J.D. and Patrick, the showrunners of the show, who do a lot of great work working in existent lore to sort of be able to create their own lore around the Harfoot. So there's just a lot of really fun, like, cultural, different cultures. And this goes hands in hand with that idea of fellowship. They were talking about in the last section because this idea of, What is your specific culture? What is worth fighting for? What is worth defending? We talk about that all the time with the shire, et cetera, et cetera, so like, you know, getting to know the Harfoots and all of their idiosyncrasies and all of their lore. They're this great book that they carry. The words that they repeat to each other. They're, you know, the culture of the road, all this sort of thing. I thought was so inventive and so delightful. Again, there are things that were done well, things that were done not as well. and things that were exquisite. And for me, personally,

all of the Harfoot stuff really, really worked for me in season one. So, um, Mal do you want to go? Actually, we have to have the same clip.

There's just simply no doubt. There's simply no way we don't. Okay, Carlos. Now we have the same thing. Come on now, Grove, not gonna migrate to us. Might help us move faster

if you sang us your mom's walking song. Hey, go on, Pops. Give us a warver. Come on, you to do some, The sun is fast falling beneath trees of town. The light in the tower, no longer my home. Past eyes of pale fire, black sand for my bed. I trade all I've known for the unknown ahead.

This is my favorite moment of the season. I feel like when we did our top moments of the year, wasn't this like our number two? Was this our number two or our number one? Because like number one was the last of us and this is number two or vice versa. You commissioned art for me of this song and it is like a treasured gift that you gave to me that hangs on my wall. Wandering Day. So if all goes according to plan and just check in with the Paul Hall of Fame to know that it doesn't always.

But if all goes according to plan, It is our dearest wish to do an episode on the music of Tolkien Hobbes and Dragons at Gmail.com if you have thoughts or feelings about that. It's sort of like part of why we saw the musical. Bear McCreary did such great work in season one.

He's back to do more work in season two. The Amazon has released a package around the fact that Rufus Wainwright has written music for season two, at least a song for season two, which is really exciting. I love Rufus Wainwright. And, like, the music of Tolkien, which was so important to Tolkien, like, there's so many songs crammed into the corners of the text for Tolkien is something that, like, it's a note I have the theatrical cut of the Peter Jackson films, because there's at least two that I can think of off the top of my head, Aragorn and then Aowin's funeral song, like songs that were filmed and then cut from the theatrical release.

And I, if it were me, would never cut a single song personally. Yeah, music is a huge part of any culture. And so, like, we got Disa sort of singing to the rocks and how much that was a part of the Dwarbon culture. And so to get Poppy here, singing, and then singing about the land and the map and this, like, wandering song, this call to adventure and the specifics of the map. This is their, like, root. This is the, you know, the wheel to use the station 11 term that they walk constantly. And so, you know, we get glimpses of the map in rings of power. They use the map as wisely as they should to orient us around.

But to hear these hallmarks through lyric through song, Poppy also has an iconic snail song later as well. So, like, you know, it's just Poppy and her singing wonderful. I can only hope we get more poppy songs. I know we're going to get more songs in season. season two, we'll stop. So, yeah. We need them. This is just magic.

This is pure, pure magic. And the song itself, like, I listen to the song all the time. This song was in my Spotify, wrapped. And the year the Rings of Power aired, which meant I had like mere months for it to crack the top five. And yet it did because I just can't stop listening to it. It's so beautiful. And then you return to watch it in the context of that sequence and the blending of these beautiful lyrics and what they represent.

And then the visual incorporation, like that, that blending of the footage and the map that you're talking about, I just thought was so well done. Like, a map, a Lord of the Rings map, this is literally some of the first things like I can remember capturing my imagination when I was a kid. And like my dad still talks about how like the additions that he had when he was a kid, it's like, you know, the map and the specific rendering of the map and how that's like

the thing he thinks of and associates in his mind. So the map is just like a central thing for Rings fans. And like to follow the little dots as they make their progress and then to cut back into the footage like the moment in the gray marshes, for example, where you know, you see them passing through and then you go in and you feel the plight, like the trials of their migration. And then we kind of account for like the context. This is the fifth episode. This is partings. The context of where they are like there are. they're isolated after a number of things like Largo's injury,

the question of if they're going to be able to keep up, if they're going to get left behind, which is this kind of like disturbing undercurrent of the Hartfoot migration and the Hartfoot culture. And then you have inside of that, that question of like, will we be left behind or can we keep up? Then you have the found family

and the sense of belonging in their little cluster. you have poppy not just singing this beautiful song but like it we hear it's like it's her mom's song and so like she has this loss

and this grief and she is then porting that into hope for other people and like a sense of possibility for other people and that's a gift that she can give them and that they can give her

to say like share that with us bring your mom on this journey with us it's just so lovely and like one of the little moments it's I love is when they're They're all huddled and they're pouring the tea and the like the look on the stranger's face when they just hand him the cup of tea. And he's like, maybe it'll be okay. Right. And he doesn't yet know

he hasn't had like the veil lifted. Right. It's just this little anchor to life, right? And to like acceptance and like not feeling so totally confused and lost in a number of different ways. And like the moment where then Norrie is looking out at the end of the song And like he the stranger is perched and he's looking up and he's watching the stars and she's watching him And you just feel like the way that the links build and the way that you go not to spoil something else It's definitely going to come up later but the way that you can go from a journey to an adventure right And then the lyrics like I trade all I've known for the unknown ahead is just that's my favorite line of the season Again, I said that I would say that about more than one line, and I promise to do it again.

But it's just, it's perfect. It's just so entwined to that, like, call to adventure and embracing the unknown. And then you have the sadness of that because, like, in the finale, when Poppy goes over to Nori and says, like, why does everyone I love the most always have to go away? And Nori says, because I think if we didn't, that we'd never learn anything new. And it's like, I don't know, I really like the honesty of that. Like, it's not like answering the call is always easy, right? It's hard. And that's part of what makes it meaningful.

So I just absolutely love this. And the reward of fellowship, because, like, this idea of embracing the stranger and bringing the stranger with them is so anathema to their culture. Again, similar to what we were talking about with the elves and the dwarves, this sort of isolationist versus opening your borders to other people. And so, like, the stranger has this burden, as this thing that is, like, ostracize them, hold them back, all this sort of stuff like that. And then he like literally lifts their load for them, literally carries the load because he's bigger and stronger and he can and makes their passage easier.

Share the load. Exactly. I will carry you is what he does. And so that reward of, you know, taking a risk on, you know, kindness and comfort. The offering of the tea is such like comfort, which is something we so associate with hop. in general. So those are the Hartfoots. Let us go now. Great stuff. Let us go now. To the leafy, the beautiful yellow leafy kingdom of Linden. This is where the elves, the elf royalty, make their home. Gilgallet is the king here. This is the quote,

in Linden, north of the loon dwelt Gilgallad, the last heir of the kings of Noldor in exile. Walker plays Gil Gallid the king there. We see a few interactions there. We've got, this is where Galadriel and Elron sort of first encounter each other in episode one. We get Duran and Elron go there, sort of on a diplomatic mission, and we get a lot of several proclamations from

Gil Gallad. But the most important thing is that to know that there's a blight, the leaves of the great tree and Lyndon are rotting. And it is an overall you know, signal that magic is leaving this world and perhaps it is time for the elves to leave this world as well.

One of the quotes that is not my moment that I'm picking here, but it is something that Elron says to Duren in that Namare scene, right? He says Gilgallad must be informed and soon he will no longer be a king for there will no longer be a Linden. So there's like a ticking clock

on the kingdom of Linden, on the reign of Gilgallid, all of that. Mallory, do you want to go first with your Linden moment? Sure. She has passed beyond my sight. Galadriel was so certain her search should continue. We foresaw that if it had,

she might have inadvertently kept alive the very evil she sought to defeat. Or the same wind that seeks to blow out a fire may also. so cause it spread. Is this your pick? No. I want to say that I feel like you really fulfilled the prompt here. Because you picked a Gilgallency. But not because I didn't.

That's fine. I actually really love that line in that moment. There was, my one panic swap late did come from like, oh, God, have I fulfilled the prompt or not. But this was one way, I think this would have been the pick for me for Lyndon, no matter what. because this was, so this is in the first episode of the two-part premiere, a shadow of the past, and as you can tell from the quote, this is after. They have briefly temporarily convinced Colladriel to put up her sword.

And there are a lot of different things I love about this. That last line for the same wind that seeks to blow out a fire may also cause its spread. We've returned to that a lot over the course of the season, and like it remained very top of mind. Revisiting this with the context of the full season in mind, you know, O'Ron's guilt is so palpable in this moment already, and that's one of the things I love about it. Gilgall's secrecy, like that ends up being so key

over the course of the season. It feels like we learn a lot about the characters and their dynamics and the tradeoffs are willing to make in addition to kind of the sub-dematic substance of the idea. So that's part of why I really like this. moment, like the Galadriel agenda, the Mithril agenda, which he will not tell Elrond about, right? Elrond has to, like, discover that he has made an oath. He has made an oath that he then has to violate, which perhaps will come up in your moment. I don't know. I don't know what you're

going to pick. And it'll be really funny if I was just like, we're just going to talk about Elrond and Doran again. Sorry. I like that in a different location this time. Elron makes a lot of appearances on my list. That's the Galadriel. Me too. Galadriel here she is many times. One of the things that I like about Gilgalad is that he will say these wise things, right? Like he'll say in the fifth episode, hope is never mere Elr, even when it is meager. When all other senses sleep, the eye of hope is first to awaken, last to shut. But he then has to be reminded of that by Elrond later when Elrond's like, did you forget your own counsel? So even though he doesn't have a lot of time, like he doesn't have a huge TRT in the first season.

in. His scenes were always kind of interesting to me. And often because of that hidden purpose or whatever was like lurking beneath, the end of this conversation and from the scene I picked, that's when Elrond says it is hard to see what is right when friendship and duty are mingled. And Gil replies, such as the burden of those who lead and those who would seek to and he sends him off to Keller Brimbor. So he's trying to like turn basically Elrond, quoting George R. Martin into and one of our

favorite ideas from another fictional universe into leverage, right? Go on the minute. Focus on the thing I need you to focus on. Signs and portents, portents and signs, self-fulfilling prophecy. This is the other thing I love about this

and ultimately like why I picked it. For the elves, the elves think that they are fending, the elves who are in the know at least, think that they are fending off this fate. by sending Galadriel to Valanor. But she quite literally jumps ship. And that leads her to Halbrand.

That leads her to that raft. And then for Galadriel, the idea also Sarah. Who is hot, Sauron, who fucks. Who will be Anatar? Okay, great. Call it a gift. For Galadriel, the idea that she is so central to, bringing about the very thing

that she is seeking to stop is just so dramatically compelling and delicious and the kind of thing that makes this I mean we were going to be excited for the show no matter what but when you're always like a prequel expanding the world why like what are you gaining from it

what are we learning about the characters that we didn't know what are we learning about the world that we didn't know and that is one of the, it's certainly not the only one but one of the things at the top of the list for me like this prequel gave them the space to play in that sandbox and to examine that question, like, how did Eladriel become the character we find in the trilogy? And what mistakes or choices, what laments or

regrets lead her there? And then I just think, like, the writing of that final line is, like, poetry. It's just very emblematic to me of the lyrical prose that the show was able to nail. So good. So I just, I love that moment. Yeah. It's a great pick. And so many things that you've said inspired things in me. I'm so excited to talk about this world again. Same. I can't wait. The fact that the Galadro that we meet in Lower the Rings, the Lady of the Woods, has become a Gilgallad figure, right?

Like, here she is the sort of Spitfire Warriors. Like, we must go out. We must defeat the evil. We must go out. We must avenge. We must do this. We must do that. And Gilgallid is sort of in his leafy kingdom trying to bring.

trying to preserve the peace and beauty of the kingdom around him. And like, when we meet Galadriel in Lord of the Rings, in Lathorian, she is one of the oldest, wisest, most powerful people, but she's not on the road with the fellowship. Like, she's not off to battle against Sauron. There is something that has turned her into a person who is intent on preserving her corner of the map, protecting Lathlorian and protecting her people there.

and it's so curious to go on this journey with her from this characterization in season one to who she becomes and I think they're doing such a good job of laying that road the chief turning point being this massive mistake we see her make in season one my moment is... You think that'll come up today? Is that something we're going to talk about today?

You think could be? to go back to sort of things that are done well, things that are not as well, things that are done exquisitely, I think Lyndon, to your point, short TRT in the season, and Gil Gallet as sort of this, like, by nature, mysterious or covert kind of character, made him feel a bit inaccessible to me,

and I think that is a challenge for season two is to, like, take me a little closer to Gilgallid and who he is, and what he really thinks rather than sort of the mysterious politicking that we see. I love politicking. But like, I like Ben Walker as an actor,

and so I really want to get better access to this character in season two. So I did not pick a go-galid moment. But I picked... Did you pick Duran Demanding the Table? From episode one, Elron and Galadriel, Carlos Lee plays.

Oh, by the way, I cheated. I slammed together two parts of one scene. You'll hear the edit. It's so seamless. Ever so seamless. Go ahead, Caralus, please. It is over. The evil is gone.

Then why is it not gone from in here? After all you have endured. It is only natural to feel conflicted. Conflicted. I am grateful you have not known evil as I have. But you have not seen what I've seen. I have seen my share. You have not seen what I have.

have seen. Evil does not sleep, Elrond. It waits. And in the moment of our complacency, it blinds us. You have fought long enough, Galadriel. Put up your sword. Without it, what might be? What you have always been, my friend. So a couple things that feel really important to me here. Also, music is just beautiful, but also made it really hard for me to and make a seamless edit. The, put up your sword, a phrase you already mentioned,

is one that just like really stuck out to me when we watched this the first time. I thought it was so beautiful. And I was like, did they take this from Tolkien? I could only find it in the Bible. Like, it's not, it's not a phrase that is usually used and is very beautiful. But the core part of that second part that I slammed in there is this idea.

It's, it's, you mentioned lifting from, Thrones. This is lifted from Star Trek. This is a very clear like Spock and Kirk. I am and always have been your friend. Like this is a repeated Spock line to Kirk. And so the idea of the friendship of Elrana Galadriel, which, you know, to your point earlier, like Elrond is stealing this guilt because he's like leveraged a bit his friendship with her in order to get her to do what Gil Gallad wanted her to do, which she ultimately doesn't do. But it is genuine friendship there. There is genuine love between these two people, and it's hard for us to understand the nature of a relationship that can last millennia. You know what I mean? Like, these are ancient creatures, but and still and yet, Elrond is younger. Elron Halfelvin is younger than the people around him. And so her point of like, you have not seen what I have seen.

I have seen some shit and you haven't. And that is a question for, you know, Elron in season one, hanging out with his buddy Doran and Kazadoum, hanging out with Kelbrambor and Oregon, playing detective at the end of the season. But has he seen, he didn't, he wasn't in the Southlands. Like, he hasn't seen the horrors yet. And is that something he's going to see in season two is, is the Elron that we meet in Rivendell, another elf sort of ensconced and tucked away in his own kingdom is, you know, is, is. us seeing him see those horrors for himself an important way for us to understand how he comes to be that character who we meet in Lord of the Rings. And then the other point is Galadriel talking about the darkness inside of, if Sauron and Morgoth have been defeated and eradicated,

why is there all this darkness and hatred and anger and vengeance roiling inside of me? there must be an external explanation. And I have to snuff that out so I can snuff it out of me. And the darkness inside of Galadryl is also a repeating, touching the darkness sort of idea throughout the season. But I just love that, her saying, like, why is it still in me if it's gone? Why is it still here nestled close to my heart? And the idea that she's fighting so hard to eradicate this external threat when there is this internal threat sort of burbling away inside of her. is such a potent part of season one.

So that's why I picked that. Great one. I was hoping you were going to pick that, especially when you sent me in the picture of Kynrod's carving. Oh, my God. Yeah, why else would I be hanging out in that scene where not to pick that moment? Okay.

I said it was hard, like, Cousad of Doom was hardest for me to, like, choose between two, where we're going next, which is Numenor. The Island Kingdom of Numenor was hard for a different reason. Yeah. There are a lot of characters banging around in the Numenorian plot line, right? There's Muriel, our leader.

There's Ellen Deal and Isildur, you know, father and son. There's Barrick, the horse. There's Farisand who is sort of got his eye on Muriel's throne. There's notions of prophecy, of doom, of. men versus elves of, you know, a sealed or as like, along with Galadro and Elaron, like this character that carries so much weight of expectation for us. And so it was hard for me to know which sort of avenue to go down. So do you want me to go first this time?

Shall I? Sure. I genuinely clipped something else and then I changed my mind last minute because I just went with the, I went, I picked the thing that I actually think I, really enjoyed the most out of Numenor. And if the elf were here now, what would she see? Men of Numenor

or a gaggle of mulling children? We are sons and daughters of the Edain of Elros Tarminiatur, whose host conquered Morgoth himself. But now one elf, a castaway, could threaten us. Look down each of you at the gilchrists you bear, a heritage of mighty hands, of men who laid the sea wall, who raised our menelos, triumph of our civilization. But now one elf could threaten us.

That's Farazan, calming down the crowds of angry men in Numeror who are pissed and Galadriel's there. and worried about more elves sort of flocking to their shores. The reason I picked this is I actually find Farisand to be such a joy to listen to. Tristan Gravelle is a Welsh actor, and you can tell because just listening to his voice is a joy, his like round vowels in the way he pronounces these like Tolkienian words, Mediator, like all this sort of stuff like that. And then it also felt like J.D. and Patrick just like showing off about the lore that they knew. They're like, let's just hit you with some Tolkien lore.

We're going to hate you with some names, some place names, some things that we did and all this sort of stuff. And it's going to be just marinate it. We know what we're talking about. We're scholars and fans. We know what we're talking about. We invented this stuff for the Harfoots. Here's some stuff that is just sort of like straight text lore. And we're just going to lay it out for you here.

This is Faris-on soothing the crowd. He ends it with like buying a round of drinks for everyone who's like rabble-rozing in the town square. I know. Pricey. Pricey tab. Yeah. And it's one of those things where, like, you know, sometimes if a show or a book is not as successful, it will tell you, it will tell you, you know, we get Farazahn's son in and around the scene saying, like, they love him. He can woo anyone.

He could talk the Heinlein off donkey. Like, he's so good at what he does, blah, blah. And you're like, okay, telling us is one thing. Showing us. And it's convincing the way that he just sort of calms and wraps this crowd around his little thing. using xenophobia is a tremendous example of the state of affairs in Numenor. And so I could have picked Elendil and Issyldor. I could have picked Medial, and I almost did pick Muriel,

but I picked Ferris on. I just love this performance. Numerur is another place that I feel like I hope to see a little bit of improvement in season two. It felt just like a little all over the place with what they were trying to. accomplish there. But this core concept of the elf faithful versus the men's rights activists, the people who are like, that's a non-gendered men, mankind. That's the core conflict of Numenor that we need to keep at the forefront, this idea that like Numerinor was gifted to these, line of men coming down from Elros as like, you know, a reward. But the one thing that they must

not do is try to approach immortality or the realms of elves and all this sort of stuff like that because the elves are gifted immortality that men are not but it's called a gift for men not a curse but a gift of this idea of like isn't it a gift that your time in this world is fleeting

and that things end and elves are sort of cursed and burdened with immortality that's the idea but the men don't always see it that way and they're like why do they get this why do they get the long lies well blah And so for Farazan to emphasize the work, the many hands, the like, look at your guild crest. We are hard workers.

We are men of, again, in a non-gendered sort of way, like men of Middle Earth. I just love this speech. I love this moment. And I love the way he turns the crowd. So, yeah, Faris on. Great pick. I'm going on with the other side. I'm going with the faithful.

You once asked me why I pulled the Galadriel from the sea. I claimed to have had little choice. But the truth is, I could have left her there. Could have refused to follow her to middle earth or stop my son from doing so. Yet at every turn, I made the choices I did because... Why, Alendiel? Because Alendil does not merely mean one who lost the stars.

I just never imagined it would lead here. Once told me that the way of the faithful is committing to pay the price, even if the cost cannot be known. trusting that in the end it will be worth it. We'll see to it that we make the end worth the price. Come what may. What may. First of all, I knew I could count on you to pick a clip with your favorite, Allendeel.

Hot Daddy Alende. Secondly, did you pick it because they're essentially like nuzzling each other? Yes, I wrote it by that little nozzle. That's literally my first bullet point. That little nozzle. All right. Correct. It brings me comfort to know that you know me so well.

Oh, man. Yeah, it's a very sweet little moment below deck between the between Mariel and Alendale. It's lovely, lovely. The original nuzzler, L.N deal. Exactly. Look out fantasy. Yeah. There's another nuzzler.

Oh, man. If anyone's like, what the fuck are you talking about? Check out the 99 movie draft on Big Pick. You've got three hours to spare. Yeah. Indeed. Indeed. Okay.

So I love this conversation. I love this scene. I love this idea. you already beautifully set up the context of these different factions inside of Numerner. So that's part of what's interesting to me about it. Overall, Numeror's deployment in season one as like a lens through which we got to examine prophecy, vision, questions of fate was one of the things that I really enjoyed about the time we got there. So that clip that we just heard is when they're sailing back to Numenor after the Battle in the Southlands. And that is one of my many picks from the finale, Alloyd, makes a number of appearances today.

But like if we go back to the midway point of the season, the fourth episode, when Mariel is... Which is what my quote is from episode four, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Like the describing, right, the petals of the white tree falling. It is no idle thing. And if you skip ahead a little bit in that, passage, there is a fateful hour in the destinies of men, an hour of judgment in which each of us, everyone must decide who we shall be. So like, this was one of my favorite things more broadly to

talk about with you across season one. Choice of Destiny, we love talking about this in general in fantasy stories. If there's a prophecy, questions of free will, this is something we're always interested in. And these characters gave us a lot of opportunities to really like chew on what perspective the story brings, like just some of the specific language choice, and then you can kind of swing across it in the span of one conversation, but like must decide who we shall be or I could have. And like inside of these conversations about putting your life and putting your stock and your belief in some larger idea, something that has been passed down to you, something that you have inherited and decided to opt into and making space inside of that for your own decisions. Like, it's just always so interesting. And, you know, like, putting your faith in

something bigger than yourself is not always an easy thing. And it doesn't always work out, right? And so you have, like, moments across the season, like, Mariel's eyes and the warning that her father issued or the tested faith, right? Like, Alendiel in this moment thinks that he has lost his son, thinks that DeCyodor is dead. And, like, we as viewers, of course, know that that is not true, but it doesn't matter that we know that because for him it is a moment of tested face. And we had like elsewhere in the season, we had Mariel's vision of the great wave, incredible sequence. Or in the finale when Tar Palantir says to Aarion, like, you must go up but don't do as I did. Sending her to the perch, his perch, but saying don't make the mistakes I made.

I looked for too long and now I cannot separate what is from what was. what was from what will be. So you have faith as comfort, but then you also have faith as justification. You have faith as invitation. I love that. Maybe you should do a great deed, but maybe to make a mistake. It's just so fascinating to me. It's one of the things in the world that I always love to confront and think about. And obviously, it's like a central thing in the text. And we've we've talked about many of many of the many, many myriad passages that explore this idea that we love and we will undoubtedly have opportunities to do so at length across the course of. season two, but, you know, the, I think one of my favorites that I found myself like thinking about a lot

in season one and was on my mind again here was like from Fellowship, the book, why didn't you make me throw it away or destroy it? Let you make you, said the wizard, haven't you been listening to all that I have said? And how those things can all be entwined, your role in this larger tale, but the need, the necessity to maintain belief that your choices matter. This is just one of the parts of the story. Yeah, I love that you highlighted that because of the part that I almost picked was actually between Galadriel and Medial from episode four when they're at the Palantir and they're talking about the Great Wave. And like, Galadriel's like, like, come with me now to fight evil. This is another sort of, like, sort of, you know, isolationist versus joining in fellowship, common cause to take up arms against evil sort of thing.

Galadio convincing the Newman-Oriens to go fight with her on the mainland. But Muriel having Galadra look into the Palantir to think about the Great Wave and Galadio being like, we will avoid this. And she's like, you're here. You being here? You've already started it.

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The destiny is so present there. Let us go now to not a place because they did not have a place until the end of the season, but a people, the orcs, the Uruk and Adar, their leader, quote, the shadow that bred them can only mock, it cannot make no, not real new things of its own. I don't think it gave life to the orcs, it only ruined them and twisted them. And if they are to live at all, they have to live like other living creatures. So this is like a big prompt in season one, this idea of taking the orcs, the like hordes of, threatening, menacing, inhuman creatures in Lord of the Rings and give them humanity for

lack of a better word, give them desires, give them, you know, some culture, a dignity, all this sort of stuff like that, as manifested by their leader Adar, who was played in season one by Joseph Malam would be played in season two by a different actor, Sam Hasladeen. I feel like probably we have the same moment. in here, but... Seems likely, but maybe not. My children have no master. They are not children.

They are slaves. But each one has a name. Heart. Are created by... We are creations of the one. Master of the secret fire the same as you. As worthy of the breath of life and just as worthy of our home.

Honestly, just a... That I think is yours. That was mine. Yeah. Mine is a little different, but almost. Is it from the same scene? Yeah, same scene. Your kind was a mistake. Made in mockery.

And even if it takes me all of this age, I vow to eradicate every last one of you. But you shall be kept alive. So that one day, before I drive my dagger into your poison heart, I will whisper in your picket ear that all your offspring are, dead. And the scourge of your kind ends with you.

You seem I'm not the only half alive as being transformed by darkness. Perhaps your search for Morgoth's successor should have ended in your own mirror. Yeah, so back to back, I think, moments in the same scene of Galadryl interrogating a chained Adar as he does a couple of things. I'll let you talk about your section. I'll just say briefly from my... I mean, I think Jocemal is so good. I'm excited to see what Sam Hasl Dean does with his character in season two,

but I think Jocemal is so good in this sequence specifically. We made like sort of the whispering, like a little bit for us. But like there's this part sort of directly after when basically Halberin walks in in and like stops Galadryl from killing at our... And she's talking to Halbrainer about the orcs, and you just hear at our go,

what a look like correct her, like quietly in the background? It's so funny. But yeah, he's basically, what my little section here is he's basically doing a like, if you prick us, do we not bleed, you know, merchant of Venice, a moment of like bid for like, don't we deserve a home? Sure, we're going to explode a volcano to get it, but don't we deserve it? Like, we are created by the same. hands that created you. We are deserving

of dignity of respect of our own culture. And Galadryl, like, sounds real, like, problematic in this scene, real. Like, what she says, your pike-ed ear? I just wrote down, I was like, it just sounds racial to me.

I just, yeah, I really like this. Ekes. What do you want to say? Yeah, so this is from episode six. This is following the battle, but before the true quest and the true victory unfolds. And one of the things I really like about this sequence is like, this is the reveal, this is the moment of truth that Adar is not serving Saran, right?

That he is. So this was like, this is just a lot going on in this stretch. And we get like, you know, great lines here like he sought to craft a power, not of the flesh, but overflesh, the power of the unseen world, which is the language that Galadriel will then later recognize when she hears it in Aregion. So this is crucial in a number of respects here, but mostly I love this for what we see from and in

Galadriel and then what Adar sees in her and says to her. And like when you were talking earlier about what we bring with us to this prequel to this show from later in the timeline. Yeah. And one of the things then that is interesting is like what are we learning about the character in terms of how they see the world? But I think, and this is true, this is true

for a lot of the characters in the show, but with probably Galadryl and most of all, how other characters see her and how she thinks they see her, because then that is just then of course incorporated into how she sees herself or what she's fighting against or think she needs to like justify

or challenge is just consistently fascinating. The last line of from the clip I selected, it would seem I'm not the only elf who has been transformed by darkness. Perhaps your search for Morgoth's successor should have ended in your own mirror. First of all, anytime we get a mirror mention with Galadio, we're going to remark upon it, wonderful.

Great stuff. This is like from the premiere, from the opening stretch of the show, this has been a mission statement, right? You alluded to this line earlier, you mentioned this line earlier. when Finrod, and we kind of get the full line later in that premiere, we don't hear what exactly he whispers to her at first, but sometimes we cannot know until we have touched the darkness. And that's so much a part of this stretch of gladrial story

is her touching the darkness and what that will mean. And by touching the darkness, we mean hot sara on who fucks. But that's not necessarily the same, right, as your enemy, your foe, saying to you, should the search event in your own mirror? Are you the bad cause successor?

Like is the darkness, has we gone from touching it to it consuming you in full? Or making a home inside of you, you know? Yes, yes. Carvin had a little nook and curling up and then taking over. Like, I was thinking of the scene from, I believe episode five when Galadriel is like finally revealing and explaining some of her past to Hellbrand and is talking about the mutiny, the mutiny of her

company and says each of them acted as they did because I believe they could no longer distinguish me from the evil I was fighting. Like to have to confront the fact that the people who are supposed to stand by you and work with you think that about you. And then for her to continue on from there and do these things, it gets back to that same wind idea. And it's just one of the things. And it's just one of the things that I loved so much about her season one story. And then, you know, obviously we have to think about what follows this scene, which is the eruption of Mount Doom, the fracturing of the Numenorians and the Southlanders, when Galadriel reflects to Theo in the woods in a scene, a stretch that I was not expecting to, like, be quite

as riveted by as I was, because, you know, the Theo stuff was not my favorite part of season one with one notable exception that will be going up in my next pick. In mere moments. Mere moments. But I loved because that is episode seven, Galadriel and Theo in the woods. So it's right after this conversation with Otter, right after. And right after we're watching Mordor come into existence and the smoke and the flame and the shadow blanket the sky. And the visual of them just covered in the red.

dust. And the eyelashes coated just every part of it covered in that shadow. It's gorgeous. No escape. And Theo is carrying his guilt, right? And says, I gave power to the enemy. So that makes me responsible. And Galadriel says to him, some say that is the way of things, but I believe the wise also look upon what is in our hearts. And this was not in yours. Do not take the burden of this day upon your shoulders, Theo. You may find it difficult to put down.

again. And maybe that's something that she would have said to him without that conversation without her, but I'm not sure because like that challenge that he issues to her, the thing he sees inside of her and that she has to confront has to be on her mind then when she is sharing these words of counsel and words of caution to Theo that are based completely on her own experience. And, you know, I like that Arondere and Bronwyn did not make my moments list at any point today. Spoiler. No. But I was thinking of a scene I really did like the Arandere Watchwarden scene in the first episode. Yes. When the Watchwarden says to him,

but mark this, Arundier, for 79 years you have kept watch over the men and women of Tihara, not because of what their ancestors once did, but because of who they still are. And that's like a hideous moment in a lot of ways, right? That they are holding in judgment an entire group of people who did not make those mistakes that their ancestors did.

But then this question in the show, well, and then we see like half of them go. Half of them. What will O'Rondare say to Theo? Yeah. But half of you stayed. And just that question more broadly, like, I liked that scene because it doesn't just apply to the man in the Southlands. It applies to all of the characters. Like, if you touch the darkness, does it claim you?

If it claims you, can you break free of it? Yeah. Do you have to be defined by, like, what you're. fellows have done or what mission you embrace or anything else forever, that will be a question that Sauron himself will ask. So it just was a moment that I really liked in general, but also one that connected to a lot of the character sets who are not necessarily directly a part of that conversation. That brings us to the Southlands or aka before door, aka no more door, aka now Mordor, quote in the land of Mordor where the shadows lie, starts as the verdant hills of the

Southland, turns into the ashy wastelands of Mordor before it's all said and done. The Elf, the Sylvan elf, Orondir, his forbidden romance with the apothecary, Bronwyn, her troubled son Theo, all of that is in the mix in the Southlands. This again was a section that felt a little rocky to me in season one. I had no doubt that we would have the exact same moment for the Southlands. It has become a rallying cry for House of Art. So can we hear from our guy, Waldrig? Do you know what it is?

It is no soul. The beautiful return. Have you heard of him, lad? Have you heard of Sauron? The best. Put it on the merch. The best. Have you ever had of him a lot?

Have you heard of Sauron? Oh, man. I don't have a ton to say here. This is an incredible moment. We love it. I just have to be here. And I have to be here. I do want to say the language is so, and I'm sure we talked about this at the time,

but it is so Return of the King, Aragorn, coded. You know, there's so much entangled between Hal Brand and Sauron, A. a.k. Sauron and A.K. Sauron. He is so Aragorn courted throughout, you know, and this idea that, you know, if folks were not, were all duped by the story, then they thought he was, you know, a long-lost king of the Southlands who was promised to return and all of that. But I kind of love this idea, this, like, twisted idea that the Soutlanders who are, you know, faithful to the idea of Sauron eagerly awaited the return of their own king, aka Sauron, A.k.a. Sauron, A.

Halbrand. So, yeah, anything else you want to say about Waldrick? I mean, it's just a great piece of television here. And, you know, in the running for House of our Bit Prime. Like, this is really, this is a crucial one here in the canon of our podcast. It had to be here. You know, in terms of the actual substance of the story, this idea of just like bound by blood in terms of the way like the key is activated and inserted, twisted, and sparks these... Gushing geysers, let's just continue with the phrasing warning. It transformed the Southlands and activate Mount Doom and then blanket the land and shadow

to make it safe for Adar's children to roam. I love the idea that Adar is opposed to Sauron, but then will usher in and birth the place where Sauron will forge, spoiler, the one ring. this is great stuff. And thinking of overall that like, you know, that plot and what unfolds and how and why is a, it was a really interesting thing to kind of watch unfold over the course of season one. And for Waldrig, this idea that like he doesn't even know what he's really after or why or what he's doing or why.

Like he thinks Adar Saran. He doesn't even know who he's devoting himself to. And, you know, he is seeking to serve and thereby destroy without really understanding the particulars of why or with whom, which is obviously quite an indictment of our guy, Waldrick. But we do thank him for giving us the gift of ETCPAOIA and Aviord of him lad. What would we be without him? Rewatching this, I'm like, I really don't want to be covering this show in an election year. There's just a lot that I don't even really want to get into, but it's all just there. You can just see it.

It's just right there. Okay. Let's go. Speaking of places where rings are forged, let's go now to Aregian and our guy, Kellabrimbor. Star of the season two trailers, Callow Brimbor. Mallory and I have really. I just can't wait. Really latched on to Charles Edwards as Caleb Brimbor.

I'm excited for this. Caliburnbor was, with you. the exception I think of the scene that I pulled out here, and I'm sure you probably have the same one. But, like, Calibornebor, sort of similar to Gilgallad was a, was not an easy character for me to access in season one. But here's a couple things that are going on. Number one, Charles Edwards is a wonderful performer. And so I'm excited to see what he does. And, like, hopefully the fact that he's had all this time to, like, sort of marinate on who Calibranbor is and what he, what he, like, the nature of him.

We are really, like, we are really drilling down on him in these season two trailers. We were like, this is our guy. Caleb Rabori is going through it. Quote, to set this up in Aregian long ago, many elven rings were made, magic rings, as you call them. And they were, of course, of various kinds, some more potent and some less. I'm going to start with my clip. I'm sure it's all going to be fine. It's going to be fine.

I'm going to start with my clip and see if it matches with yours, Nellie. Feanor's work nearly turned the heart of the great foe himself. What has mine ever accomplished? It has turned my heart, my lord. The heart of many an elf. But I aspire to do far more than that. An age ago, our kind brought war to these shores. I want to fill them with beauty.

Mine is the line, like, the first part of yours is the last part of mine. Mine is just the part right before that. Let's hear your part. The Geynors hammer, the tool that brought the Silmarils, the jewels that contain the very light of Valinor. Strange, isn't it? How one object could be responsible for creating so much beauty and so much pain. True creation requires sacrifice. They say that Morgoth found the Silmarils so beautiful

that after he'd stolen them, for weeks he could do nothing but step. nothing but stare into their depths. It was only after one of his tears fell upon the jewels and he was faced with the evil of his own reflection that the reverie was finally broken. From that moment he looked upon their light no more. Every time we sit down to Pod, we look at each other and we say creation requires sacrifice. Now, line comes back up again, of course, at the end when Kellebramber asked Eladryl to

give up her precious dagger to make the alloy, to make the three rings for Elvin Kings. So the, this is a wonderful sequence and so crucial to setting up who Calibranbor is, you know, in terms of his wants and desires, this ambition. And like, he does such a good job and the writing does such a good job of putting just like, you know, it's a beautiful desire to create something of beautiful. beauty to create something. It could turn the heart of evil, like all this sort of stuff. And we talked a lot in season one about Tolkien and the idea of creation, this idea of

the act of creation is a divine act and all of this sort of stuff. So I think all of this beautiful. And then it's just laced with this sort of like Bilbo and Rivendell-esque, you know, just a little more than you want a little bit. grasping at something in a way that has us a little worried for Kellebram Bore. So, yeah, and we're mentioning somewhere else are here, the gang's all here, whom amongst us hasn't wept over the beauty of some jewels and then caught our own reflection gone, oh God, oh no.

So, yeah, Caliburne, again, something that I'm really excited to, a character I'm really excited to dig into a bit more in season two. Yeah. Same. So this was my late stage swap right on the brink of recording because this was the one originally where I did not honor the spirit of the prompt and I just picked a sequence that took place in Aregion so that I could pick more than one moment involving a couple characters who will come up later across different categories. And then when the outline came through and I saw it from first name specifically, I was like, I'm not going to be able to get away with it. But then from there, it was very easy to land on this scene and this moment.

Episode two. This is from episode two, Adrift. And, yeah, this is another example of season one's deft touch with striking most ominous notes that leave us really on edge. And also kind of like wrapped by the description of something that like, you know, we are not great Elvin Smith's forging. the Great Rings, but like there is, if you, anything in your life, right? If you're like creating anything, there's going to be something about this that speaks to you. And so, and then that makes you kind of afraid when you feel yourself like leaning in, right? And so I loved that about it.

And definitely returning to this, I already felt that way about it, returning to this scene after watching the season two trailers. And that you mentioned, like, starring a. a who is a mess really seems to be worked up through it. I am more troubled than ever, but I love the ideas I play in this conversation. There's this admiration and aspiration,

but there are those yearning tendrils too and the question of where those yearning tendrils lead you, do they lead you to greatness? Do they lead you to darkness? What is the tipping point between ambition and mayhem? What's an interesting thing to think about? Two more to go. You know what I picked for the next two.

There's just simply no doubt in my mind. I don't know, actually. You know what I picked for the next one. We definitely have the same next one. I'm not sure we're the same last one. Well, I have two there because I had to move one there. So the last one I have two. Okay.

I see what you did. Okay. So, potentially, we're here to talk with a stranger, aka if you want to call him Gandalf, you can, but I'm still unsure that that is who he is. Follow your nose. Quote, that is the business of wizards. Wizards are always troubled about the future.

There is zero doubt in my mind that Mallory and I picked the same moment. Carlos Lee, play it, please. Every time our paths are laid before us by powers greater than our own. In those moments, it's our task to make our feet go where our hearts wish not to tread. No matter the perils awaiting us on the way. Your sounds to be like an adventure. alone it's just a journey no adventures

he must be shared oh my god another foundational that's my favorite it's my favorite moment of the season it's my favorite line of the season good old Rubin superlative what does it mean at the end of the day of listen we love this moment we've talked about it in the year into the intervening years

since it aired the stranger as a character was part of the whole like, you know, Sauron, Red Herring, Riga Moro of season one, who is Sauron here? Is it Hot Halbrand? Is it Adar?

Is it a stranger? Is it someone we haven't seen yet? Et cetera, et cetera. But it is revealed at the end of the season, of course, that Halbron is Saran. That's going to come up in a second. And also that the stranger is a wizard. He claims that title in Isar, a wizard.

It is very Gandalf coded for sure. We do not know for certain. and Amazon is certainly eager to not call him Gandalf. And I do not know if that's for legal reasons or why, or if he is one of the Blue Wizards. We'll talk about that a bit more as we go into season two lore, et cetera. But this is just a core, core, iconic Apple Wars sequencing and concept of, you know, speaking, you know, the way that you likened Kelly Burr-Ber's creation of beautiful jewels and rings and hammers,

and all of that to making a podcast. The adventure journey idea of making a podcast, or at the very least, if you're not a podcaster, talking about story, going on the adventure of a story. Like, this is something that Mallory and I are so fortunate to get to do, is like, I love watching these shows or reading these books that we discuss, but I love them even more that I get to do it with you and with all of our listeners. that is sort of the heart of it, the trick of it, you know, and it's like the stories we share

that turn this all into an adventure. And we talked about this a bit on our hype episode that we did last week or that aired last week, which talking about rings of power and how it is not a perfect show by any means, but it is a show that I've, I can't think of another. I've had as much. delight in discussing with you and in sharing with our listeners. And that that fellowship and that adventuring through story is just so key and core to everything that I've made my like central to my life. So yeah.

Over to you, Mellner. I just, I just couldn't have loved this scene in this moment more and getting to share it with who and talk about it with you. And yeah, it feels like it's like a, this is, this is. sacred text for us and the pot. It really is. And, you know, this is, again, another moment in the finale. The finale, the finale, loaded, loaded finale. Fun to rewatch the finale. The, the strangers, not completely, but semi-lifted veil, you know, following the encounter with the three mystics in the woods and starting to get this clearer sense of self, but also knowing, believing that he needs to set off for Rune to understand further. It's the way he says it. I must go to ruin. And that like, the Istar reveal, the wizard reveal, like all of it. And then, of course, most crucially of all, the invitation to share the road, to share an adventure and to share a life.

Share the road. And, you know, the stranger is the one who says it, but obviously it's like we have to think about Nori and the invitation that she is receiving and what that means and why Norrie was such a part of one of the many reasons why Nori was such an effective character who gripped us so so so fully in season one like this is this moment that Norrie's entire season was building toward you know we think back to the premiere and norie speaking to Marigold and like this lament that Norie feels like there's this beauty to the Harfoot life and community but for Nori there's this question of what else is out there like what else is not an offer to her?

What does she not have access to, right? Like if we didn't do everything we weren't supposed to do, we'd hardly do anything at all. And haven't you ever wondered what else is out there? Like, haven't you ever wondered what else is out there? And so, of course, this connects beautifully to wandering day, right? The unknown ahead, like these are entwined. They're inextricable from each other.

And so when, because Marigold is, like, operating from this position of worry and caution and fear, which ultimately then for Norie leads to the sense of like confinement in the premiere. And so then that moment in the finale where Norie, you know, says, because her family's go. Like you're going to do this thing. You're going to go. And when she says, I'll be careful. And her miracle and the cold he says, no, you'll be bold.

It's just like so beautiful and heartwrenching. It's just incredible. It's amazing. And to me, like, weeping, sobbing genuinely. Yeah. Just as our pal colleague, Katie Baker likes to say, sobbing blogging. This is real sobbing blocking. Sobbing potting.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's really funny. This is just like adventures they must be shared like you said. I couldn't agree more. It is just so central to what we love about doing this together and with all of the bad babies. And it's so central to what we love about this world about being in middle earth. And, like, you know, you think of, like, reading The Hobbit for the first time and coming across, like, that description of they never had any adventures or did anything unexpected. And, like, you build a couple lines later to, this is a story of how a Baggins had an adventure.

Like, that is the core of this. This is the story of how Abagans had an adventure. He may have lost the neighbor's respect, but he gained, well, you will see whether he gained anything in the end. And that's your invitation as the reader, like to go on the adventure with them. And like, what an incredible gift. I love this. This made really happy. And I mean, yeah, it was funny because when we were at the Lord of the Rings musical in Chicago, like, you know, occasionally people spot us in the wild come up and say hi to us. A lot of people came up, like more than we're used to. And you turned to a point, you're like, there's a lot of people here. Like, come and say hi to us. And I was like, think about where we are. We're in Lord of the Rings musical. This is like Mecca for the Bad Baby. So like, yeah.

Of course, we saw a lot of people there. Because these are exactly the kind of stories that, you know, our lovely listeners, like, want to share with us. So that makes really happy. Last but not least, of course, we saved maybe, I don't know, the best. Or certainly, I think what the story thinks is the most important thing for last, which is the interplay between Sauron. who was Halbrand and will be Anitar

and is Galadriel here Galadriel. Quote To many he appeared fair To others terrible But to some evil I guess you've got a couple here Perhaps one of ours Overlaps

Carlos, why don't she just play Every clip you got Let's just go for it And whatever it was you did be free of it I never believed I could be until today at your side

I felt that feeling keep it with me always bind it to my very being then I there is no king of the Southland the line was broken the last man to bear your crest died over a thousand years ago

he had no air I told you I found a son a dead man no No, on the raft you saved me. On the raft? You saved me. You convinced millions who save the men of Middle Earth. You convinced her.

I wanted to remain in Numinor. You fought beside me. Against your enemy. And mine. I have been awake since before the breaking of the first silence. In that time, I have had many names. I have... I have...

no notes. Honestly. Oh, great. So we both. So those are my two moments. Great. The episode six one was mine as well. So. So episode six, that one was what I picked for Galadriel and Halbrand. And then the finale moment is what I originally picked for Reggian because it takes place. And I was like, I can tie this to the forging of the rings. I thought, like, let's just bundle these together. I thought for sure you were going to pick finale a Regian, which is why I picked episode six post-battle. But these are so, they're, I mean, it's literally the second one references the first.

They're bound to each other. Bound in the darkness by them. What I love listening to them back to back, something I didn't realize, like, sort of in watching them, is that they have the same, initially have the same score behind them, this, like, halibrand and gladrial theme that, you know, then in the finale turns into, like, Mordor hooting and grunting. great stuff from Bear McCreery, honestly. What do you want to say about Golladriel and Halbrant? I think what I want to ask once again, as we did at a time, is

does collateral fuck Saron, if not for the ill-timed interruption of the soldier? Oh, yeah, in episode six. To summon, to issue Miriel's summon for the king of the southlands. They're wearing a lot of armor that they have to get through.

They'd make do. Okay. They'd make do. Okay. So, in the beginning of the film Excalibur. I believe it's Gabriel Byrne, like, fuck someone in full, like, plate armor. And I was just sort of like, that's, I would have taken some time to take that armor off. It seems heavy and sweaty.

Pinchy? Like, perhaps pinchy. Anyway. Go ahead. Oh, God. These are both great scenes. The sequence in episode six after. the battle sitting on the log, where they both seem so shaken, but also transported and alive

with this new connection and sense of possibility. And I love that the starting point for that conversation is they're each thanking the other for holding them back for being a check. And it's, yes. And so it's this like, it's entwined, but also kind of a contrast to the bookend moment in the finale, the second clip that we heard, which is about how they might amplify each other. That's really, Sauron, Halpran, sorry, Sauron, hot Sauron, who fucks?

That's really his pitch, like the alloy, right? That they're going to forge for the rings, like amplify, boost. And I think this question, like, the substance of what Galadriol is saying on that log, and then the reminder that Sauron issues in the moment of truth in the finale, like this question of can you absolve another person we talk so much rightly because it is a moment we love we talk so much about the the gandolph froto conversation from fellowship right many that live deserve death and some that die deserve life can you give it to them frodo do not be too eager to deal out death and judgment even the very wise cannot see all ends one of the things that i loved about this gladriola halbrand just in general the sequence in the shared arc is like we think a lot about one side of that Gandalf lesson to Frodo. Like, do not be too eager to deal out death and judgment.

But then this is kind of the, this is the other part of it. Like, would it be right to offer that forgiveness to Sauron? Would it be? Would anybody, should anybody be able to absolve someone who has done those things? And then, like, obviously that is not the choice that Gallagial ultimately makes. But, like, if she, if we play out the string, this is ultimately a thought experiment at this point. But it's like, if she had been able to, as she had decided to do it, would Sauron have not become or continued to be Sauron? Or would he have?

Because right there in the pitch he makes is like, I see no difference. I know this is not what you're saying. There is a shitty interpretation of that that is saying, like, if only Galadriel had given him a chance, he wouldn't have. been the evil lord. No, no, no, no. I know that's what you're saying. No, that's because like the last part I'm saying, to the last part of that is like,

when he's saying, like, I told you the truth, I told you that I had done evil and you did not care, right? And then we think back to like, the fourth episode, the Numenor sequences, the fourth and fifth episodes where he's like, give them a means of mastering it so that you can master them. And then we start to think about like the nature of this time together more broadly, like through the lens of this.

clarity and the way that he whispers, like, in the finale elsewhere, before this, you pushed me to heights that no one else could have. I will never forget that. And I'll see to it that no one else does either, like, which is a threat that is inherent in that. Yeah. And so like when he says, well, I also believe him that he did want to stay in Newman. Like, we got some, I remember our listeners sent in some, like, great pieces of text of this idea that like, there was a time in his life where Sauron wanted, if not redemption. and then just sort of like he did want to heal the lands. He did want to go to Numenor and sort of like start anew.

So there were these like, there were the, it wasn't just like plots and schemes. He was pushed by, again, it's not her fault, but he was sort of like pushed by Galadryl to leave. And in doing so, she unwittingly to go back to the quote that you pulled from Oregon, sorry, from Linden and go Gallaud. He also calls it spread. Yeah. There she goes. There she goes. It's like the, the, so we are obviously, it is a good, a good thing to clarify, we are not saying it is Galadriel's fault. I am not saying that. But in terms of what the story is examining, the fact that Galadriel will wonder that and grapple with that and have to agonize over that is so interesting. And like, that's why it's so important that dusted and dappled throughout there are all of these moments where we, you know, could, could. When Sauron's path had been different

if any number of other things had happened, maybe. But it is inescapable, ultimately, in this conversation. In the Mind Palace sequence where he is holding her prisoner inside of her own memories and weaponizing and warping things like her devotion to her pledge to carry on her brother's legacy where you can't escape what the darkness has done to him and is for him still. And so, like, you have a moment where he's saying, you told me once that we were brought together for a purpose, right?

There's that ours was no chance meeting idea that we had so much fun talking about at the time and speculating about it was such interesting like theory father for us at the beginning of the season. And he's saying, this is it. You bind me to the light and I bind you to power. Together we can save this Middle Earth. And she says, save a rule. And he says, I see no difference. And then does the mirror of Galadriel ask like, take a look at the surface of this water and let's like see what our future could be.

And which of course then, you know, makes us think about the like, I've passed the test moment that will come much later in the story in the in the trilogy. But like, I see no difference tells us all we need to know. And it tells Galadriel all that we need to, that she needs to know. And so hopefully there is a little something there where she can absolve herself and say he was going to go down this path no matter what. But it is so interesting then that like does she, okay, she goes back up. does she say to them, let's not make the rings? No. No.

She says let's make three, right? One's going to corrupt, two's going to divide, but three, that'll be the key. And like, regardless of everything that comes in the future and whether or not that proves to be true, the fact that she is, and not only not telling them what has happened,

but saying to like Elron, remember when you told me you were going to trust me next time, just like, drop it? is disturbing. And so again, this is this like perfect sequence because we are horrified on her behalf,

but also like a little bit nervous about what we are witnessing. And then Sauron, we're like, you know, we as the audience, just like the characters around him, have to be compelled.

Like, we have to be compelled. That it wouldn't be effective if we weren't. And then we have to be horrified that we allowed ourselves for a moment to like lean in to the invitation. So I just thought this was all so well done.

Like if anybody listened to the pods but didn't listen to the final section where we went into, you know, full, like, the foils, full, full, no-holds, bards, no spoilers barred theorizing. Like, we felt pretty sure the entire way that the Halbrand was going to be Sauron, but it didn't diminish the impact of this finally coming to fruition. It was just such a satisfying thing to watch and like the way that Charlie Vickers voice changes. Yeah. When he says, I've been awake since before. the breaking of the first silence is like chill-inducing. So, just great stuff. The accent work.

So good. I think, so something that we like sort of found out adjacent to covering season one is this idea that like the mirror, the chapter in Fellowship with the Ring, the mirror of Galadriel, and the section where she talks about Sauron, like sort of ever seeking her, ever reaching out and grasping for her, his eye on her, was a inspiration for Dady and Patrick and Brian, et cetera, when they made this show to be like, okay, what's the story there? Like, what's

the connection between Sauron and Galadriel? Is this a toxic? Like, they never said this, but I'm saying, like, is this a toxic ex-boyfriend sort of situation? Like, and the way that they're playing, it's so

funny because so many people at the end of the first season were like, you were dumb to ship them or like so long, like, Cal bread and Galadriel shippers is like, oh, you don't know the internet. Like, this is only made that more enthusiastic. Have you, can I introduce you to the Ray Lowe's? Anyway, so like the, the way that they're playing with our, one of our shared favorite

tropes of like the problematic fave and the, the redemption arc of, you know, a Jamie Lannister or a Sawyer Un Lost, et cetera, et cetera. And so, like, you know, when we watch this, we can't help but say, like, oh, is there a saving of this person? We love a character on an arc. Like, what could Sauron move Halbron, who is Sauron, like, move towards? Again, none of this is Galadryl's responsibility in any sense, but it's just sort of like, that's our instinct is like we want redemption. That's, that's the urge. We know that that's not the reality.

And so the way in which they play with that, the way in which. the tension between those two things exist. I mean, even in season two, like, I know that Sauron as Anatar's about to, like, at least ruin Kellebrimbor's year, if nothing else. And I'm just sort of like, I'm still, you know, and part of it, you know, to be, like, completely transparent, of course, is like, Charlie Vickers is a charisma bomb.

He's so good in this role. So it's just like, you know, it's just sort of, like, compelled. And, um, yes. Here we are. And that's the trick of the shh. of the story that inspired them in the first place. It's like what would connect a Galadriel to a Sauron ever in the first place, you know? Right.

Yeah. Is Galadriel here she is? And so it's a hot Sauron who fucks. And boy, was it fun to watch? Like, you had this line in the, in your Linden pick in that Galadriel, Elron conversation, but like evil does not sleep, Elrond in waits. And in the moment of our complacency, it blinds us for Galadriel to be presented as a character who is perseverating over that. And thinking about that risk, mindful of that risk constantly, but to still be in a situation where that reality then shapes her life.

If he can even get Galadryl, like what's to stop him? And we know what's to stop him. And we will continue to watch to see that in effect. That does it, I think, for our nine-stop tour of Middle Earth and its many relationships. Really thrilled, really exciting to do this rewatch to go through this. revisitation with you. Not surprised to see the overlap that we have in some of our very most cherished scenes.

And really, really excited to get into season two later this week with you. We'll be back then. Thank you to Mallory for taking time out of genuinely, she's still on vacation to record this podcast with me.

And thank you to Carlos Chiraboga for filling in for Steve back on the Rings of Power of Beats. So great to have you, Carlos. Thank you to John Richter for his video work on this episode. And thank you to our Jenner-Rigapal and Jomea Dinneron for their work in general and on social, et cetera. They're the best. We love our team.

We love our fellowship. We'll be back with you all. Hobbiton Dragons at Gmail.com for all of your Tolkien questions, comments, and concerns. And we'll see you soon. Bye.