House of R - 'Skeleton Crew' Premiere Deep Dive, Plus Jon Watts and Christopher Ford

Episode Date: December 5, 2024

It is time to set sail across the stars with Mal and Jo as they dive into Episodes 1 and 2 of 'Skeleton Crew,' the latest 'Star Wars' adventure (07:07). Later, they are joined by Ben Lindbergh for a dive into the 'Star Wars' lore corner about the mysterious planet our heroes come from (1:38:21). After that, Joanna chats with showrunners Jon Watts and Christopher Ford to discuss the pirate story inspirations for this swashbuckling tale (1:52:33). Hosts: Mallory Rubin and Joanna Robinson Guests: Ben Lindbergh, Jon Watts, and Christopher Ford Senior Producer: Steve Ahlman Video Editor: Steve Ahlman Additional Production: Arjuna Ramgopal and John Richter Social: Jomi Adeniran Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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I think they're planets. They're stars. I didn't know there'd be so many. Oh, and welcome to a very special. We're in the studio together. Episode of House of Our. I'm Joanna Robinson and joining me today.

I've missed her. She's been gone. Now she's back. It's Mallory Rubin. Johanna, you didn't even ask how assessment went. I didn't go. It's gone. Okay, listen, Mallory has been ever so slightly in and out because why Mallory, you single-handedly by yourself. I'm just kidding.

No. Mallory helped with this massive redesign of our website, the ringer.com. What a great website. And a new version of the website is up. Mallory's blood, sweat, and tear. went into the creation of it. So please go check it out, Theringer.com.

Yeah. Give it a look. Check it out. We're all very proud of it. The Ringer Squad worked super hard. I miss you. I miss the bad babies for a few pods recently. Sorry to have been a little less present,

but delightful to be back with you today. Yeah, happy to support you in your great work, Mallory. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. I am super well rested and in a sound space, body, and mind. Yeah. I'm sure.

You're definitely not running on fumes. Go well. And potentially some bad sushi. But here we are. Talk about a show that you genuinely loved. Yes. Loved. Loved.

Galatin Crew. Yeah. We're here to talk about episodes one and two of Skeleton Crew. And we also have a couple very special guests on this episode. We're back in Star Wars Land. You just saw him on a house of our episode this week. But he's, oh my God, he's back again. It's Benjamin Lindberg.

We'll be here with a lore. segment at the end of the episode. And then also following Ben, Ben, Ben, Ben, we have the greatest experts possible on this new TV series. We've got the series showrunners, John Watts, and Christopher Ford in conversation with us. So that is at the end of this episode as well. We've just a lot. Delightful. So we'll be doing like, would you say, a medium deep dive today into two episodes. of television, plus some lore with Ben, plus an interview with the showrunners. And then next week when we do episode three, it's just going to be as deep as we can possibly get with Jude Law. Okay.

Oh, my God. Well, I mean, I know. Promises, promises. I promise you the moon, my dear, if I could. Yeah. So Mal is super high on skeleton crew, and that makes me really happy because I like to see you happy. You know what it is? What an angel. Are you an angel?

Many people have said so. Prokering reminders. Yeah. Okay. What do we got? What do we got cooking? So listen, we are covering skeleton crew for the rest of the year. That's right.

Also, Dune Prophecy is a thing that exists that we're going to talk about. Some more. Yeah. Also, grease up your abs. It's time for Craving the Hunter. Mallory, on a scale one to 10. And how excited are you for our craving coverage? I don't have the words.

A 10-pack. A 10-pack. I just have a sensation feeling. I can't wait. We did find out when the screening in Los Angeles will be. So I will be spending our next 48 hours together here in person trying to convince you to stay so that we can see it together. And if not, then I'll rent out the movie theater. like I promised.

And so either way, you're going to come back to see Craven with me. Absolutely. I think, yeah, I think Aaron Taylor Johnson putting eight minutes of the movie up on the internet, has compelled me. Over on the Ringerverse. Yeah. Our brother pod is what I'll call it since all of our guy pals hang out over there. They have also covered Skeleton Crew. Yes.

Episodes 1 and 2. They did their instant reaction. Benjamin Lindberg, Lordmaster that he is, is also our button mash. King and he is covering PS1 30th anniversary, not PSI, like you let me say on a podcast last week. You were brain dead, so you have an excuse, I have none, and here we are. And then there's a special project cooking.

I don't, have we like fully announced it, like what we're doing on Thursday? I'll just say... Yeah, no. Great. Special project. Stay tuned. And then the Mint Edition crew did an animation awards and our covering creature commandos. So that's what's going on. It's a lot.

Wonderful stuff. How can folks have track of all of that? I mean, other than going to the ringer.com, one's their website. There you go. Every ringer podcast has its own little show hub universe on the new ringer website. Check that out.

Here's what I'd recommend. Follow the pods. Okay. Follow House of R. Follow the Ringaverse on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Follow the Ringervverse YouTube channel. You can watch full video episodes of House of R

and the Midnight Boys on Spotify. and on the Ringerverse YouTube channel, wonderful. While you're at it, follow the Ringervorse on the social media platform of your choosing, whatever that might be these days. And then send us an email. The inbox is open, Hobbit and Dragons at gmail.com. We're not very far away at this point

from things like our favorite moments of the year episode and other fun year-end goodies that we always love. So look ahead, look back. do whatever you'd like. Wonderful. Great stuff. Also, you mentioned the Spotify video platform. It's Spotify rap season.

Send us your rap. Thank you all so much. We've been getting tagged in a lot of people's wrapped. So thank you so much. It's very sweet to see how many hours and hours and hours and hours you spend with us. And if we're honored. And if we're your number one most listened to, don't you get a little video treat from us on Spotify?

That's right. We filmed it in this very room. We did. At a different table. And several months ago. But it's the thing that we did, and it exists. All right. Yeah.

That's it. Spoiler warning. That's right. All of Star Wars? Anything that's ever happened in a galaxy far away. Oh, okay. Yeah. Also this one, too, just in case.

Just in case. Yeah. Let's get into the opening snapshot. I sincerely hope with my whole heart that they kept in you aggressively applying chapstick at the camera. I chose my moment because, not that I, I had the patience of willpower to not apply chapstick while we're on camera, but I believe that's when our fancy opening snapshot graphic comes in.

Yeah, I just heard it start after you had aggressively applied the chapstick, so I hope you keep that in. Okay. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Here we are to discuss episode one and episode two of skeleton crew. Yeah. Episode one is titled, This Could Be a Real Adventure. I love it. Written by John Watts and Christopher Ford, directed by John Watts.

whopping 49 minutes. Long. I was shocked to see the runtime when I first booted it up. I'm thrilled and delighted. Episode two, way, way out past the barrier, written by John Watson, Christopher Ford. You might have heard of them. Directed by my beloved David Lowry.

Exciting. Lowry himself is a huge fan of 80s fantasy and put a reference to the iconic film Willow in The Green Night and it's been just like the thrill of my lifetime that David Lowry gets to make cinema and TV for all of us to consume. He also, of course, directed Jude Law as a repscalian of a pirate captain and Peter and Wendy. So he knows how to do Pirate Jude, and he'll be back for another episode this season.

So very exciting. This is a briefer episode, 32 minutes long, but we will be covering both in our breakdown today. The title of the show is Skeleton Crew. We get literal skeletons. Quite a few. On the ship. Yeah. Died an adult.

Allegedly. There was a mighty duel. But also, Skeleton crew means, you know, sort of the barest number of people it takes to successfully operate a ship. And if that barest number of people is one curious child who insists on pushing any button or pulling any lever he happens to see, well. Every fucking button.

Here we go. Here we are, Wim. Thanks so much for your work. Great stuff. The BB WISE. Yeah. Your favorite. We're actually, this is for you.

Famously your favorite. It's your section, and we're actually an A-B-Y, are we not? We are at least sometime after four A-B-Y, and I would say even more specifically, because everyone's favorite character from the Mandalorian, the Pirate Vane. Pirate Vane. It's here. Frankly astonishing stuff to see Vane in another show. First mate of Gory and Shard, I believe.

Goryan Shard, you might remember as being the seaweed-looking fella from the Mandalorian. Delicious. He died. Spoilers to the Mandalorian. And 9A.B.Y. I'm guessing this is after he died, right? Doesn't seem like Vane maybe has joined a new crew. I think it's safe to say, you know, nine or later just because we're in the Mandoverse timeline. And that's where all the Mandoverse shows are set. So yeah, I think that's right where we are somewhere in there. Nine Aby Y, baby. Love it. This is our, like every other Mandoverse show, we're already immediately in the opening words. alluding to or outright pointing out the incompetence of the new republic. So that remains a central preoccupation, which is fun. We love that. Yeah. This is our second Star Wars show this year.

Acolyte. Live action, I should say. And I don't know, comparing. So 2023 had Mando season three and Asoka season one. And this year we've got Acolyte and Skeleton Crew. And it just feels like maybe a little JV feeling this year. Not in a terrible way. Do you know what I mean?

JV like youthful or JV like not as good. A little combination of the both. Not ready for primetime players. Next year though, we're getting Andor. So that's right. It's a lot. We're mere months away from Andor season two. I can't believe it.

My goodness. Mallory Rubin. Mm-hmm. Since I've already said nine times that you love this show, I will ask you again. But I will just say, I like this show. They sent us three episodes. Mallory and her Infinite Restrain only watched two. I watched the third.

Uh-huh. Because I was interviewing John and Christopher, and also I have no restraint. I watched the third. I won't be, there's no spoilers necessary. But I will just say that's the episode I really liked. So it got me excited for the season as a whole. I struggled a little bit with one and two. Unlike Van, the pluck did get to me a little bit in one and two.

But I know two things. Number one, everything's better with more Jude Law in it. Yeah, I mean, yes. So we just got a tease of Jude here. And he is hopefully a much bigger part of the show going forward. And number two, I always enjoy things more when I get to talk to you about them. So I'm actually prepared to come out the other side of this podcast. enjoying these two episodes all the more for your insight.

Mallory, Rubin, take me through your big picture take on Skeleton on Skeleton Crew episodes 1 and 2. Here in the room where the big picture podcast is now filmed, my big picture take. Wow. I just found this so winning. Like, I was so charmed by it. You're going to defeat, single-handedly defeat the fantasy cynicism, exorcise it from the big picture studio.

That's exactly right. Okay. I thought, honestly, both episodes were delightful. And I love, as you know, a coming of age story. I love a coming of age tale. I love an adventure. I love a space adventure. I love Jude Law.

I love a new droid. I love a mysterious town or planet. I love a E.T. slash stranger things kids on a bike tail. As always, I remain less enthused about blue milk. We'll get back to that later. But this just has so many of the ingredients that I'm compelled by. Did you think it was blue milk? No, that's part of what I want. Well, I think we've got, I think we have like a new hue.

I think we have a new hue. A turquoise milk? It's, it looked a little. It's like two percent. Gray to me? Oh. Like it almost looked like... Like government milk.

Are you familiar with the... You know, that signature Audi color, the like green gray Audi. You know all of my familiar with Audi comes... So the answer is yes, because you fit in... Comes from riding in your car. That is what the milk looked like to me, that green gray metallic Audi. So I'm a little bit worried about... Does it have an official color that color?

Is it like sage... Gastrointestinal distress. Were you thinking of Cyril, of Cyril? Our guy from Andor sitting home with some cereal? Yeah. I mean, cereal, I shouldn't have. I don't even need to ask. Always on your mind.

I'm always thinking about Cyril Carn. And now he's doing. And what is the current height of his collar? Do you know? My goodness. How's the piping? So yeah, I just, like, I just loved it. And I thought that the kids were great.

That's always the question, right? It's like, especially if the, I mean, I remain unclear, actually, on how much TRT, Jude Law will have eventually moving forward, though it seems like now that he's synced up with the gang, he'll be just as present. I also don't know, but in the show. I have hopes and dreams. But whether they're routinely seen partners with him or just carrying a lot of scenes on their own, like, if Jude Law is the star of your show and in the show, everyone around him has to be magnetic in a certain way. And the kids were just, they were great. They were so charming. Neal. Instant icon. It's not an overstatement. Neil is the most important character to ever have existed on television. In the history of the world.

Yeah. Oh, great. I have no follow-up questions and I do not intend to challenge that declaration. And the fashion was intriguing. You know, the merch. I love merch. You love merch. You saw a kid playing with toys.

You're like, it's me. You're like, representation matters. Is it me? Like sitting in a bed, just asking for a bedtime story. It's me. Don't you think you're a little old? No, I don't. And I have some fucking notes for Wendell.

Okay. God damn it. The other thing I loved, just on the table setting front. You love authoritarian. Not that. No, I remain concerned about that. Your desk at home is an edge sketch. You know, I was thinking of my buddy, my beloved Mina Kimes, when Wim was a skiske.

sketching a Jedi in class on his etch-a-sketch, because Mina is, like, a genuine, genius-level etch-a-sketch artist. What? Yeah. And I think that Wim and Mina should go head-to-head. That's an incredible skill to have. She's, like, unbelievably gifted.

That's more impressive than, like, the Ruby's Cube people. It's astonishing. She's a genius. I'm sorry. What were you actually going to say? There's this very familiar strand of Star Wars DNA in the story. The binary sunsets, I'm looking up and I am yearning, yearning tendrils. I'm looking up at the ships on my ceiling above my bed, right?

I'm thinking about the adventure that I want and the way that the life I have is not enough. And then the twist of breaking through the barrier and realizing that these kids who give us that Anakin, Luke, Omega essence, have never seen stars. Like, and are scared. And that's why. That was our opening clip today. I just loved that. Like, loved it. So I'm so intrigued.

I can't wait to see more. It was very, I grew up in the Bay Area and all I saw was fog. I could relate. I could relate. Okay. Wonderful. So we had, as you mentioned, the Amblin-esque sort of Amland Entertainment, E.T. Goonies. You mentioned Stranger Things.

I got a lot of never-running story in here. So, yeah, just like kids on bikes. Where are the adults? Don't worry about it. They're at work. My favorite is when he's like, will you read me a best time story? No, I have to go back to work. Wendell, what are your hours?

Well, I found that keenly relatable. Actually. Very sad. And then pirate stories. Yeah, this is a whopping pirate adventure, a boys adventure. It is. Robert Lewis Stevenson. And why can kids not be?

I like that SM 33 is like, Why would a bunch of children be a pirate? Pirates. I've seen Hook. I love Hook. Well, I know, me too. What's your, like, big sort of relationship to pirates, pirate stuff go? What's your...

I love a pirate tale. Yeah. I love a pirate tale. Do you have a favorite? Is it... Parts of the Caribbean? Are you a Treasure Island person? I don't know if I would say I have a favorite, actually.

Is it Black Sails because it's kind of extra horny? I mean, as you know, I was very enthusiastic about the first... Yeah. Season of Black Sails that I watched and one day, I will. I know. When I was a kid, I did watch Hook all the time. So yeah, I like that energy that we're getting from the spaceport in the second episode. You know, it's interesting because the opening scene is just very pirate forward. And I was like, interesting. Is this the vibe? And then you realize that, so it's mutiny then it's literally brutus. I'm like, it is the vibe, actually. It is the vibe. It's just delighted. You're like, Brutis is doing a coup.

Must be Star Wars. Yeah, Pirates, I grew up watching a lot of old movies. And so, like, the Aero Flynn swashbuckle buckle adventure pirate stuff is I'm a big fan of. And I'm really excited to go on a space pirate adventure. Same. And then, like, do you have any? I think you want to say about Star Wars and Pirates in general? I mean, like, Honda's always always on our mind.

As you know, Honda is a personal favorite. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Just cherish him. Every time I think of a pirate in Star Wars, I want to rewatch Rebels and Clone Wars just to be with Honda. Do you see a significance difference between a smuggler and a pirate? Like, how thick is that wine?

Interesting. I think it's an energy. It's a mindset. I think it's, pirates are flashier. Smugglers want to go unnotice. Exactly. Pirates are like, have you seen my parrot? Yeah.

I'm going to put something on the hall of my ship so that you know you're about to die. Yeah. My flags. It means death. My eyepatch. Okay. Let's go to our medium-ish, deepish dive. Medium dive.

Love it. I always forget about that. Yeah, me too. All right. So as you mentioned, we are kicking off by taking shots of the government. And I quote, ahem. Since the fall of the fall of the government. the empire, the New Republic has maintained order. And yet, and yet, remote hyperspace roots are

increasingly plagued by piracy. These pirates boldly brand their armored holes as assigned to all ships surrender or die. It's clear messaging. I'll give them that. Yeah. Crystal clear branding. Would you slap one of these Spotify logos on the whole of your ship? Or would you go directly for the old house of our? You know, on our house of our logo, our pot art, our beautiful pot art, our silhouettes are now on our Ringer.com. What a great website. New show hub. And we have the little embroidery, the R, on our robes, which I did not know. I didn't know that either. What an Easter. I know. Fantastic stuff. Oh, like LeVern and Charlie.

Yeah, I would have the House of Our Crest. I would have Halo's face. You're a maximalist, so you would just slap a lot of... I would smuggle. I think I would smuggle. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

We start... Mutiny. There's a mutiny. British has a coup. Amazing. But sort of more chiefly to our purposes here, we're starting with a strong allusion to a new hope. Yeah. Vader boarding a ship.

Almost just knocked my definitely open water bottle of... onto my computer. On to a bunch of wires. That would have been bad. Vader boarding a ship. My question to you here is we get a captain. Yes, it's very precious and important. Can you tell I haven't left my home much and...

I'm sorry, guys. I'm really sorry. So we're doing... Other than maintaining the A New Hope illusion of this opening sequence. Yep. Do you have any other theories as to why a character that is so clearly Jude Law would keep his helmet on for this entire sequence. I was just so relieved.

Now, obviously, like, we've seen trailers for Skeleton Crew. We've seen marketing for Skeleton Crew. You boot up Disney Plus and the banner for Skeleton Crew is just one of the most beautiful faces in the history of human existence. I didn't actually doubt that we would see Jude Law's face. However, I knew a moment of... True Terror. Zori Bliss level terror. I'm like, they're not gonna

mando this. They're like, we can't cover Carrie Russell's face or Jude Law's face or Pedro Pascal's face. Like, why? Why? And thankfully that didn't happen for long. But like, yeah, he's going by Captain Silvo.

There's the voice, the helmet, the name, like all of it. So I think like the, I don't know. It seems so apparent that it's Jude Law that I don't know if we're actually supposed to think it's. it's not or what, but I guess one of the things that it does is like set up and fuel our questions at the end of episode two when we're wondering, like, can we trust what is happening

here is some sort of long kind of foot? You know, we hear him say that, you know, he references the fact that they had all but given up on him before the mutiny. So like lean times he's referencing, right? He's like, it's very clear that money. currency credits, the hunt for that is paramount to this person. Treasure. Eternal treasure? Perhaps. Perhaps. Perhaps. So we are, we are worried and intrigued. Yeah. And then there's treasure planet. There's also the ship, right, the freighter that they

latch onto, protected by New Republic decree. We already had this like, okay, again, Mandoverse, very familiar Mandoverse indictment of the New Republic's ability to, efficacy more broadly, right, an ability to protect people and maintain a order. Yeah. Yeah. But like just that question of what was supposed to be in that vault, why is the vault magnetically sealed? Why is there just one measly credit? And there's a lot of effective mystery right away. And the one credit being there feels like such a taunt, you know? Money was here. Brutus certainly thought so. Okay. If somebody in your

crew was going to betray you and do a coup. Would you prefer that they'd be named Brutus so that you could have anticipated it the entire time? I simply would not promote someone named Brutus and you can call a discrimination if you like and you can call HR if you like. But I suggest you change your name if your name is Brutus and you're looking to be someone's right hand man. What about a nickname? Like brewy. To us. Space kids, they're just like us. My heart. I loved it. We meet Wim playing with his action figures. Merch Queen Malie Rubin. Yeah. What more do you want to say about these particular action figures? So it's, if you watch the episodes with subtitles on, you know, they're identified as a Jedi and a Sith. It's clear from the color coding, the Star Wars iconography that he's playing with the Jedi and Sith. So that's obviously interesting. Just more broadly, this was again so like we're up in Elliott's bedroom and the kids' bedrooms in ET. We're with, you know, Mike and the gang and in Stranger things.

Like the presence of the toys, the action figures, that just felt so tethered. to all of the influences on skeleton crew, but it's like whim is us, right? And this idea that we're going to talk throughout the pod today and with Ben later when he joins us about like what is maybe going on with this cutoff, hidden planet and the inescapable presence of the Jedi as a seemingly present, current, robust, healthy, vibrant thing.

Which according to our A-B-Ys, they should not be. Very few. Yeah. Kicking it post-order 66. So that's all interesting. But just the fact that later we'll see Wim reading all of his many times, reading his stories, he's playing with the toys. As soon as he and Neil encounter each other on the sidewalk waiting for the tramp to school,

they immediately play dole. They're like, General Canooby. Exactly. Yeah. Like they grew up loving Star Wars like us. And that's just really cool to me. And I know I'm now jumping a little bit, just to later in this sequence,

past the, which we will talk about, the Wendell, we move of it all in a second, but past that quickly. Just like when they got, when we had that play dole, I just found that to be

such an incredibly effective way to show us in a snapshot that they know the rhythm and the beat of that routine. It's like the, perfect shorthand for this is formative friendship. We're friends. We've been friends. Yes. This is what we do. Yeah. Yeah. Like there's just a deftness to that from a storytelling perspective. Whim approaches and we get from Neil that you should not have come here. And you're like, these are people who love each other and are in each other's lives and spend their days together and have fun together. And like, I just thought that was so sharp and efficient and wonderful.

And then you cut to the kids on the other side of the tram also waiting for school and like, what the fuck are you guys doing? And again, that's just like so Hellfire Club stranger things to me, right? Like, this is like, this is our Stranger Things crew and everyone else is like, you guys aren't cool. And that makes me love them. Nerts. Yeah.

For me, I immediately thought about space balls. I thought about Darth Helmut playing with his action figures. This was like a little, it's interesting because, you know, Ben Lindberg, our pal, our friend, our colleague, wrote a great recap of these episodes. So it's on The Bringer.com. What a new, great website. Where you talked about different kinds of nostalgia being mined. Yes.

And the way in which sort of the Star Wars nostalgia machine has been directing us towards characters. We've known and love and grown up with. We are digitally de-aging Luke Skywalker. We're doing all sorts of that kind of stuff. We are giving you Grogu, who's like Yoda, but smaller and cuter and all this sort of stuff like it. So there's that kind of nostalgia. I was waiting for the coup. And then there's this, which is different, which is just sort of like, this is how you grow.

You are a fan of the Jedi the way that he is a fan of the Jedi. And I think that's clever. I think also what's interesting in this, and I did not get a chance to ask the showrunners about this, but I am interested in the number of American graffiti references that are in this story. And if you're thinking about American graffiti, a George Lucas film that he made before Star Wars. You're thinking about how much George Lucas put his own self into like Star Wars and Luke's dream of getting off the planet and Luke is a tinker and

Luke is this, that, and the other thing. And it's just sort of like, that's George's story of George wanting to get off the planet and go out and do great stories. And then this is the story of us, as you say, wanting to do all that. It remind me also of, it's funny. Because, like, on the one hand, I agree with you exactly that face you made. And then, on the other hand, I do sometimes when the people who make Star Wars talk endlessly about the fact that they grew up with the Kenner Star Wars toys in their backyard, smashing them together. And now they get to make Star Wars.

Sometimes that's great. And then sometimes you get the Book of Boba Fett where I'm just like, I feel like, you know, smashing toys together alone cannot sustain us in the storytelling universe. And I don't think that that's what, like, Ford and Watts who have been. telling incredible coming of age stories outside of the Star Wars universe for years are up to

but it's just something that like sort of ping for me on like oh no okay what are we doing here so it's hard not to think of

one of the great I mean you know I love Spider-Man Homecoming yeah the coming of the age aspect of that tale as is often the case

of a spidey tale is wonderful but like now I'm thinking back to you know what Lego were they building the Death Star maybe and that's that's fun remember how sometimes

somehow the Palpatine figure returned. Somehow. Somehow. Okay. We get the suburban sprawl of Wim's neighborhood. This is also the first mention of Supervisor Capital S from his dad. And paying attention to these like capital letters. Capital G, great, capital W works. Exactly.

Yeah. Supervisor. Supervisor. Yeah, what did you think of the production design of the houses, of the tax? town, etc. Well, something I will say is I was told by sort of people who had either seen parts of this, watched it get made, that this was like a very practical effects focus show. And so I was a little surprised in the first episode because it felt there's a lot of, of course, like CG and volume work and stuff going on.

It's in episode two when we get all of those puppets and people and makeup and stuff like that that I think that other aspect really shines. And so that, you know, like, I thought it looked cool, but I think I liked the visuals of episode two even better personally. It's so E.T. Oh, yeah. The suburban sprawl of Wim's neighborhood. What did you think of?

Speed her through the woods. You're an architecture enthusiast. What did you, as a Maya, what did you think of, would you want a skylight above your bathtub? Yes. Even after Wim crawled onto the room? If it just looked down, that was a luxurious setup that Neil had there. Neil's home life is great. Neil is living.

Yeah, he really is. Sorry, Winnell. Speaking of, let's talk about Wendell. So a lot of E.T. comps are flying around and rightly so. A lot of Stranger Things comps. I do think, and I did ask the guys about this, I do think this opening kitchen scene with Wem and Wendell is never-ending story. It is, um, Jail McCraney. actor played Major Dad, plays Bastion's father and Neverending Story. And this is just a sample of

some of the things they talk about in this scene. But just the way it's shot. Yeah. With like in the running story, it's Bastion at the table trying to open something that his dad eventually has to open for him and his dad is in the background and similar set up here. But this is something that Bastion, who lost his mom and the never earning story says. He says, I had another dream dad about mom. And then his dad says, we can't let Mom's death be the excuse for not getting the old job. done, right? You're old enough to get your head out of the clouds and keep both feet on the ground, right? So, you know, obviously, yes, Elliot is a comp here. And Elliot has, you know, Elliot is a child divorce. So this idea of, like, latchkey kids and absentee parents or parents who are too

harried by the responsibility of taking care of kids by themselves is something across Ambulin Entertainment. It actually goes back, I would say, deeper than Ambley Entertainment. This is something that scholars who read about fairy tales always talk about the fact that, like, usually you have the heroes of the fairy tales have like lost parents or have an evil step parent, like neglect so that they can go off on an adventure. You have to be a neglected child in order to be left to your own devices to go off on adventures such as these. And in the 80s it was like divorce. It's a thing.

So yeah, what were you thinking about? Neil can't wait to get home. And Wim is like this is kind of, this is kind of. Well, Neil's got the twins and the baby. Baby two. Sweet baby too little. Yeah. Yeah.

And I'm interested, too, in comparing but also contrasting the vibes between Wim's dad, Wendell and Fern's mom. Vera. Undersecretary Vera. Because they're both not seeing something about their children. Yeah. Very clearly. Yeah.

Right? What their children care about, what their children are interested. in, there was like a very different energy in the desire to control, right? Wendell was more like, I don't have time for you. Aren't you too old for this until his panic and desperation takes over because he's worried about his son and I assume that will lead to a permanent shift in the nature of their relationship. We learn, we live, we grow.

Farah had a much more chipper disposition, but the subtext was like, do the things you're supposed to do and the thing I want you to do, which is the same, ultimately. So, we didn't get to meet Neil's parents, but I hope we do at some point. I'm really curious to see, like, what they're like.

And also just to learn more about Neil's family in general because there was that fascinating in the garage. Yeah. The, like, portrait of some ancestor, I assume. And I was like, is that a Jedi? Because of the robes. But then it seemed to be too drink trace. Like, maybe it's a tavern.

Wynch? I don't know. How different are they really? It's a thin line between Jedi and Tavern Wynch, as you well know. As a scholar, Star Wars. How different are they really? Oh, man. We've mentioned that Ford and Watts are the driving engine behind the Sony Spider-Man films. Were you thinking about our guy Ned Leeds when we met Neil? I think impossible not to. Yeah. And we love Ned. And we love Neil. Love. There's not a single line or reaction or squeal or squeak or anything that this kiddo in his Oshkosh-Kosh-Bogh overalls does that I am not 100% here for. It's just, I love this kid. Every single moment was perfect. I think the particular energy in episode two of this is so bad.

Yeah. We need to turn around and go home right now. This just made me my favorite moment, but tough to pick. You know, there's so many ways in which Wim is you in terms of playing with his action figures and reading his Jedi stories on his iPad late at night. There are so many ways in which Fern take note, shit, is you. I had a few moments, if I'm being honest, where I was like, am I more like Fern or more like Wim? It's tough. But also when Neil reaches out for the little pirate rat, and then he's like, and then he jumps in him, he's like, ah!

And he's like, that's okay, just scared me a little. And then later he's like, holding him. That's very Mallory. And then send someone his little baby crew, go get Yandu's pin adventure. Maybe you're every one of these kids, but not KB because you are not tech savvy at all in this latest. No, yeah. And yeah, I think as a middle school-aged child, I would also not want. cyborg tech in my head.

Yes. Maybe KB is just a huge Empire strikes bad. Were you, like, were you cool in middle school? Here's something that's weird. You were? I was nodding because I was intrigued by the question. Well, here's been something that's so interesting about my journey through this company is like when I find out that someone, like, when Sean Fennessee was like, oh, no, I was

cool in high school. I was like, what? According to him. According to him. Interesting. Because the thing that I know about Sean in high school is that he wore a gray goose vodka hat with a fishing hook pushed through the brim for, I believe, five years until it

He told me he was a jacket. He fell off on a roller coaster and that was the other reason he stopped. So. If he says so. Okay. Allegedly, Sean Fennessey was cool in high school. Were you cool? a middle school. Let's say middle school.

Middle school. I don't know how I... It's okay if you weren't. It's okay if you weren't. No, I think I was... I don't know. My question is, could your life have sustained the additional burden of walking around with like what is essentially headgear, the cyborg version of head gear?

That's a really good question. Could your reputation have sustained that? I think it could have. Okay. Miracle and middle school. Good to know. I think it could have. I wore, as you know, because...

I've shared this video before. In middle school for a pretty long time, I wore a no fear hat that I put a bunch of patches on. Yeah. And I also started a hemp necklace company with my... I do know this about you.

It's important more. It was called Al-N-Hempco USA. Yeah. And once was kicked out of a basketball game because I would not cut it off. So yeah, I guess I was cool. I was not cool. I was a drama kid.

Okay. Oh, man. The great work is something we want to talk about. But Ben's going to join us at the end of the episode to talk to us a bit more about the great work. But Under Secretary Farah, who you already mentioned, is here to Carrie Condon. You want to wax poetic on Carrie Condon? One of my many wives. Okay.

Great. One of my many wives. Mallory's building a hero. It's like Riovedal. Rebecca Ferguson. Oh, man. Yeah. Obviously, Zoe Kravitz and everyone.

everything. Yeah. Of course, Vanessa Kirby's, Vanessa Kirby's Margaret is probably number one. Yeah. Unmatched. Yeah. That's the harem so far? We're probably forgetting some people, but that's a great starting point. Okay, great, great. Love that for us. Okay. Ben talked about the great work, and we'll

talk about that later, but we should really underline how tremendously creepy everything involving these kids, this undersecretary, the very like, Farrah, I'm not like, I don't think Farrah is an insidious or villainous character. No. I think Farah is someone who has drunk of the Cooley. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And believes very firmly in the power of it without questioning it. Right. And so is dangerous in her own way, but not someone who is like plotting and scheming in any kind of way. Yes, which is a crucial distinction. And then we have to wonder how much of that is because there's no context for any other way you could live. your life on this planet. They've only been there. And when the kids are asked about their hopes and dreams, it is, I want to be a senior

statistical accountant. No fair. I want to be an analyst. I wasn't cool in middle school, but I was cooler than that. Even before this, like your assessment is tomorrow you have to pick one. You have to do well on the test. And then we're going to set you on your career path and you can never do anything different for the rest of your life.

Yeah. Even before that, just the handoff from you get on the tramp, the droid is driving. Now, you know, I love a droid. I say this as a droid lover and a droid enthusiast, but the droids in this episode so far other than we'll get to SM33 who is in, I think, a winner. Is this a secret droid racist agenda? No. Have you been listening to Dijar it again?

No. Absolutely not. But I'm like, they feel like jailers to me. You know, there's the hand. Off from... Everyone safe. Just here to keep everyone safe. The handoff from the driver to...

The security droids standing there at the door of the tram immediately... Get to class. Don't do anything you're not supposed to do. Not a fan of that. And then the way that they are patrolling, like there's a little bit of relief when Wim has his accident later that he's rescued. But you're like, why the fuck are they there? Right?

The way that we hear later when Wendell will run into them and they will say that no, enter or leave the planet. I'm sure that's totally fine. It's fine. Totally fine. Don't worry about it. But just the way that they're, you know, com linking to each other about their sector patrols,

the seismic activity, what's that little like frog happen to? Just a primitive life form. Like, alarm it. So who is the supervisor, but also then are all of these droids part of this? How much of what is happening with Atten is about? How much of what's happening at Atten is about? something inadvertent that happened? Yeah.

Some cutoff that wasn't intended. And how much is a deliberate? Yes. You can't go past the barrier. Because not just you can't go past the barrier because that's how it's always bit. Yeah, I'm of two minds about it. And I'm happy to bring Theory Corner up into the main episode. I think that, as you know, I love Theory Corner.

And I will just say that, like, it's giving a little bit, like, for your own good, we have done this. My question about that, you know, because we've been talking about silo as a property, I was reminded of the Doctor Who episode, silo in the library where a computer has, like, saved everyone to the best of its ability, but in doing so. But, you know, so if like if we seed too much, perhaps this ties into our Dune TV show, if we see too much control to these robots who think they are doing things for the greater good. Well, my only question about that, the greater good, what is it? The greater good. It's possible.

Cool. There it is. If we see too much control, if we let robots do too much inside of a society and they decide society should be a certain way. My question, I guess, is where were the elder humans and what happened to them? If there are people here who have never left the planet, who, what generation decided that that was the move of humans? This brings me to a question I wanted to ask you. Yeah. On the theory corner front.

The spaceship hatch was not, in fact, hiding a bunch of people who had been turned mad by poisonous gas, but in general. our tall-tail lover Fern, how much of what she's saying in these astonishing lies and fabrications is rooted in the truth of something that happened on that planet. We pay attention to these shows

that have very short runtimes and have like no time to Shilly or Shally and there's usually hidden information inside of even the tallest of tales. So her grandpa told her. Yeah. Like that whole generation of people were gassed out

and then the droids raised the children and this is just how it's always been on this planet. Interesting. Especially when we think about, like, when we think about something like Andor. Yeah. And what can happen to an entire planet. I mean, we got an Aldani call out in this double premiere, which was fucking harrowing. Because they called it a sulfur's bog.

No! Right. Aldani is a beautiful planet where they celebrate the eye, the eye ceremony. And now it's a sulfur's bog. I am troubled. And as we know, like Mandelor, like terrible things can happen to entire planets. So if something terrible, something wiped out all the adults, let's say, on a planet, and the kids were raised by droids, and then the droids to keep them safe, just kept them there forever

and think that they're protecting them when, in fact, they're jailing them. Would that possibly be relevant when the primary... Very kiddo says that loud a naive of assessment. I want to really help people, you know, like if there's danger or something? Or something. Might these strands all come together? They might. Sweet little whim.

Just wants to be a Jedi. Neil's like you basically said in front of the whole class you want to be a Jedi. I personally thought it was wonderful. Neil's like you're a weird little hippie and it's not welcome here. Who is the supervisor, which was your earlier question? Yeah. And there's a few options here. There's something like there is no supervisor.

That's always something to think about in one of these stories. There is no actual supervisor. Yeah. You know? Or the supervisor is a program, a code or something like that. What do you have on your plate for who the supervisor might be? I don't know. Is it also Yoda and does this show end with another Yoda cameo?

Just kidding. I know my ABIW from my BVY. don't worry. Oh man, I forgot about that until you just said that. That's, oh, boy. I think I can't help because this is set in the Mandoverse of always thinking about Thron and how Thron is going to eventually connect to something or maybe did at one point or will in the future.

And so I really was thinking about the supervisor through that lens of like, will whoever or whatever this is be something that Thron had some sort of awareness of previously and can then tap into weaponize or will seek to control. Because we're building, this is the Thrawn era of Star Wars stories. We're building towards. We have already connected tissue to Mandalorian season three with your favorite character, Vane. Who I believe is named after Charles Maine, a real pirate and also a character on Black Sails. Here's the question I have.

Yes. If the supervisor is Thron himself, will that be enervating and exciting for you? I don't think that will, well, if the supervisor is the friends we made along the way. Also, follow up question, what do you think Wendell's job is? What was Chandler Bing's job on friends? He's analyzing data. Yeah. This was the other thing.

They're all doing data. Is it just a giant human computer? or is it just busy work to keep them all occupied? This made me think of like severance a little bit. Yeah. Right? And what are they doing down there and why? And, you know, we got a little glimpse before Under Secretary Farah came in of like what the lesson was and what they were learning.

And then we hear the kids talking about their various studies and running their tables and stuff like that. So yeah, like there was actually a lot of that of computation. Yeah. Yeah, in the first episode, like, in a way that it felt like, we want you to note this, right, to remark this, remark upon this. And, like, yeah, I don't know what they're, what if they're, what if they're fueling the own barrier that keeps them locked on their planet and don't realize it? That sounds right.

That sounds about right. Just keeping the barrier up with analysis and statistics. Oh, math. What can it do? What can it do? Okay. Now we get Fern and KB. as scrappy as can be.

Women, Neil, are sort of our, like, sensitive dreamers are, like, out there. Yeah. Dreaming of Runa. There's a world outside of Yonkers. Dreaming of Runa. Like, that whim, again, in that sort of, like, yes, yes, Luke, yes, Elliot sort of way. But again, I keep thinking about Bastion. Yeah.

And, like, him finding himself inside the very stories that he, loved to read about the very adventures and finding that they are scarier. Yes, exactly. Than he dreamed of and stuff like that. I mean, it's also, I did ask the guys about this. I was like, we have a Captain Silvo, and we have a character named Wim. The boy character in Treasure Island is Jim Hawkins. I was like, and they were like, we actually can't remember if Wim is an intentional Jim Hawkins.

Captain Silva definitely is, but Wim, we're not sure. But Jim, Jim, as well as, like, someone who, like, dreams of piracy. and then it's like, oh, actually, it sucks. Yeah. And there's not enough citrus to go around. But Fern and KB are like our scrappy locals who are eager to skip school, start fights, go drag racing. They just need a power converter? That's it.

Just like fucking Luke. Yeah. But no Tashi Station to be found. No Tashi Station here. No. On Atten. The kid who calls them, who says, hey, wasteoids, which is the most delightfully 80s thing I've Perrne in a long time.

His name, I believe it's Bonge Valfa. Yeah, Bonch. If I'm pronouncing it correctly. And your beloved Harrison Ford played Bob. Bobfalfa. Yeah. American graffiti. Boy, did he look hot doing it.

He sure did. There was a hat involved. Yep. Yeah. Okay. So we're on American Graffiti Watch. It's not going to be our last one. When Perrin comes home,

she essentially tries to Jedi mind-trick her droid into lying to her. lying to her mom and saying she was here the whole time. Do you think that's just a setup for the way in which she handles SM 33 later, or do you think there's something else going on here? So I think we're a few things. One, I think we're supposed to clock that she's resourceful. She's fast on her feet.

She's so scrappy. Yes. Two, I was like appalled by it, right? She's like programming overrides? Yeah, I do think we're supposed to feel that. It's like that's not a nice thing to do to a wonderful droid because droids are people. Unless these droids are maliciously enslaving. Which brings me to point number three.

Point number three. If these droids are in fact part of this cover up to jail and confine and contain the inhabitants of this planet and deprive them of any truth about the state of the galaxy, see, then someone's going to need to fix that, huh? And seems like our gal Fern might be well equipped to do that. Also, just have to remark upon the fashion. Fern gave us a jacket swap. You know, we got the, like, because I'm out, I'm recent,

and then I have to go home and pretend like I wasn't doing that. And I wish I didn't feel so sure that I would be buying all of those eventually. But I will. Oh, you will. I will. Yeah. Here's another question for you. What did you make of the school insignia on the jacket,

which is now the little symbol on Star Wars.com? Like, is that the supervisor? It's like a head shape, kind of, maybe. I'm like, what is that? Ooh, who is that? Usually the symbol on Star Wars.com is some era. Is it not? So, could it be the great works connection there?

Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. But we do know is that Undersecretary Farah is basically manipulating Fern spot into as head of the class. She's had to go back to the school to make sure that Fern. Don't let it slip again. Gets it.

Because, quote, there's not a place for everyone at the top. Yeah. Yeah. So that's not just like, that is sort of like an 80s parent trip of like the. overachieving parent who pushes their child to get straight A++s and you have to have all the like, you know, the things to go to your college transcript or whatever. But there's, I'm like, what happens if you're not at the top? Well, and this was another, are we good gaming? What are we doing? It was one of, I mean, the first tall tale, really, that we hear from Fern when she and Wim are both outside of the practice office is like, last person who missed assessment, Proctor sent him down to the secret. chamber beneath the school to work in the mines. It's like maybe something like that happens here. Yeah. It's totally possible. Are there little children under the school turning cogs and cranks?

I hope not. Just cocking and cranking down there? That's not life. That's, my God, I hope not. Speaking of underground. What color is their milk? My goodness. Oh, a muddy brown. Sad. Speaking of underground. Hatch, hatch, hatch, hatch. Wonderful. We love a hatch. We fucking love a hatch. I can't believe we got another hatch.

The television series lost. You should watch it. Okay, we love a hatch. We love a mysterious hatch. This is a hatch to a ship, not a sunken Jedi temple. But when, like many enabled a kid before him, find something curious in the woods. A lot of people referencing Standby Me with this, which I love, you know. We've got to go see about a dead body in the woods.

Fly of the National. Navigator obvious flight of the navigator references here in terms of a ship found in the wood. E.T. was a bit more of a shed discovery, would you say, than in the woods? Yeah. It's Elliot sitting outside and there's a shed situation. I'm relieved it. It's woods adjace. At this point, of the many E.T. comps, no racist pieces yet spotted and skeleton crew, thank God. A useless candy. Okay. Oh, man. Speeder by grace through the woods. Here's another question for you.

Tell me. Do you miss podcasting in person with me? I do. I do. I really do. Yeah. Neil is doing his damnedest to stop assessment. Yeah. And what if per se, perhaps, he tried hard to solve for his pal. And I appreciated the effort because Neil is wonderful. Here's like one of the things we hear in the standardized test prep. If you must use the refresher, remain seated, and utilize your desk controls. I have some like eats, shoots, leaves questions about this. What I assume that means is use your desk controls to flag one of your big brother always watching security joints.

Not still suit shit or something. They're not telling these kids to piss in their desks during their tests. I'm alarmed. I am a trouble. The Ashkosh, pagash overalls are full of piss. Oh, Gurney. What do you think Gurney would make a bad at?

A preposterous lie, a myth, a legend. Never heard of it. Okay, so Wim says to Neil to try to convince him that they need to go on this escapade. He says, because this could be a real adventure, no more pretend, which is the episode title. All the episode titles are lines from the show so far. Yeah, loved.

Does that work for you versus lyrics from the ballad of the Witches Road? It does. I like this. And I just thought that was such a, again, such a keenly, we are not living on at Aden. Well, it ish, I guess in some ways. But that's just such a relatable thing. like this could be a real adventure and no more pretend. You want to go do something grand and exciting.

I just loved that. And especially on the heels of that bedtime stories moment, which like honestly crushed me. I just thought that was so soul shredding, especially because he said like mom used to. You know, and so then you have that context of, well, why is, like you said earlier with the fairtals, like, why is he so eager to leave, right?

in this sense of loss and longing in the way that they're entwined for him. Bedtime stories, aren't you getting a little bit old for that? I still love a bedtime story. And I'm ancient. Good night, go to bed. I have more work to do. You're right.

That actually does sound like something I might say. Good night, everyone who sleeps at a reasonable hour. I have five movies I have to watch for the big pick this Friday. Before we got, because this could be a real adventure. What about the one about what about it's totally wizard? How did it make you feel? I asked the guys about it. How did you feel about it?

I loved it. I did, honestly. You said now this is pod racing. Kittster, he'll be so happy. Great stuff. Along the lines of that's a wizard, we get my favorite line of the episode. And it's no calling on claimsies without the claimer. Everyone on the whole planet knows that.

This is when all of our kids are outside the hatch door. The girls have beaten the boys to do it. They're trying to claim the hatch for the boys. Fern manipulates Wim into trying to open the door on her behalf. Fairly easily. I know that Wim eventually is like, I've got a plan once we're inside. I can unclaims these and claims he's again because they only unclaims he is the outside. But really like...

He's a little dust mode on the wind. And all it takes is one... They fell for that. They stayed much like he stumbled over the edge of that cliff down into this ravine in the first place.

They stumbled right into that. Why don't you do all the hard manual labor trap pretty quickly? What did you think of the KB disguised voice bit and Neil

instantly revealing his carous instantly. Neil is a perfect character and a perfect performance. Do you think that Neil and Runeo

will end up together? I think he's her rosy cotton. He's going to make it back to the Shire. Something to make it home for. Love that. Because Neil doesn't want to be on this adventure. He's loyal to whim. Neil's like, have you seen the size of my bathtub and the volume of bubbles?

It's like the prefect bathroom in there with all the bubbles. We've got sick holograms happening at home. That was fun. Yeah. I liked that. I love your point about Ferns Tall Tabor. having granules of truth inside of them. But I also like this idea of,

I'm not like shipping literal children necessarily, despite us just saying we hope that Neil gets back to Runa. We just did that 30 seconds ago. But in a more wholesome way. Anyway, when being a kid who loves a story and Fern being just like a walking, talking story. Yes. Love it.

Once aboard the ship, which is called the Onyx, cinder, which I believe we know from like ephemera and merch and all this other stuff like that. There's a Lego set. Not something they've said. The words Onic and cinder have not, Onyx and cinder have not been said. Great name though. Great name. Great name. Great name. Great name. Will I be buying the Lego set? I mean, probably. I mean, probably. I think I'm out officially out of room for just say yes. Now I'll probably get it anyway. And the kids see stars for the first time. And it's both uplifting and very sad and harrowing. As already, I already discussed, I just thought that was amazing. I just loved. I just love. loved everything about that. I thought it was great. I thought the entwining of like fear and possibility was so fantastic. I loved that we got to see down on the ground, Wendell, like he does give a shit. He did go after a son and then he realizes what he might be losing. I love that. I also just thought the visuals of like, again, Wim is like, I've got these ships and they're I thought it was a Jedi temple, and I can't wait to tell you that Jedi temples,

sometimes they can go hide under the ground. I'm like, fuck, we're thinking of Lothal, we're thinking of Ezra, we're thinking of, we're thinking of so many things we love. He's like, guys, it's even better. The ship. It's a ship. Like, this is the, to a kid like whim, there could be no better discovery. And then he falls out of the hatchdorn is almost engulfed in flame immediately. And I, the tonally the way that the show did, like, struck that balance.

in the first couple episodes, I thought, was really successful. Like, it's perilous out there, but also there's a lot of wonder and whimsy. And both of those things are true. Great stuff. Episode two. Let's do it. Blast off. This episode title comes from poor anxious Neal who says,

Whim, you promise we wouldn't get in trouble, but now we're way, way out past the barrier in so much trouble that we're lost forever. Neil. Perfect. No notes. Which of the responses would you have had in this situation? Would you be like, I need to get home immediately? This is terrible.

We're going to get into trouble. Or would you be like, I'm going to go spray this bottle of perfume in the pirate layer and put a hat on that someone filthy had probably previously more? Died in. Quite possibly died in. So my options are whim or nil. You can be anyone. You can be KB. You can be Firm. You can be SM 33. You can be the rat in SM33's eye socket. You can be anyone you want. I mean, who do you think I am? I think I think you're a combo as well. Yeah.

Am I like rat moon rising? I think we all have a little bit of each of them in us. That's part of the joy of it. I mean, SM33 definitely has. is a bit of the rat inside of him. Okay. Great peg leg, too, on SM 33. And the cords on the back of his head is like his like sort of dreadlocked ponytail. Amazing. Incredible design.

Here's where I try to do my Captain Barbosa impression. You best start believing in pirate stories. You're in one. That was good. Thanks. That was good. I see my green apple and my monkey and I'm set. Okay.

Wow. I don't. I mean. Exactly. On brand. Uh-huh. We have a lot of great. people on our side, including Captain Barbosa from Pirates of the Caribbean on Team Green.

Okay. Fern giving off real Lyra Belacqua energy. Silver Tongues. Oh, yeah. Yep. I'm the captain now. I'm the captain now from Fern. And it worked.

And it worked. This was just a delightful, not only an interesting glimpse into more of like how Fern conducts herself, but a really delightful intro to SM33. really found I thought this was wonderful you know we get like I think the rat ate his brain

hard not to think of some RFC brainworm comps you know we can we can we pause for a second I don't want to talk about RFK I want to talk about RFK I want to talk about something else

the other Diane and I were watching Chicago and I was lamenting the fact that Richard Gear is like the only actor in that movie that didn't get nominated for an Oscar

and she She's like, she turns to me, she's like, is that, is that durable thing true about Richard in gear? And I'm like, yeah, I'm pretty sure she, it is. And she was like, well, it's probably the durable thing, don't you think? I was like, no. I don't, I don't, I don't remember that story sticking to him in a way that, like, really dimmed his brand.

I have, like, a vivid memory of my mom telling me about that. Yeah. It's a, I believe, the plot of a great episode of South Park. But, like, I don't, I don't think it, like, shout out, let me, wing. But I don't think that it, like, stuck to gear in a way that made the Academy say, no, you don't get an Oscar nomination for Chicago. But I just looked at, she's like, it was probably the gerbil thing, don't you think? Anyway, I thought about that when the red sort of emerged from SF 33.

Google that if you're too young to know what we're talking about. Also, Richard Geert currently on the agency, a wonderful television program. There you go. You can listen to us covered on Presti's TV podcast feed. Okay. Has anyone on the agency said, as we're talking about, crew, you may challenge the captain to a battle to the death. Has anyone mentioned check off?

The emergency hole demolition sequencer? Don't touch that. Here's the question. Because obviously the question is not will whim. When? It's when. Right. When will the hole?

When will whim be demolished? What episode? Well, the question is, will it be whim or will Fern remember or something like that? I like that. They're so pissed at Whim. They're blaming him. Don't touch that. But also, Fern was like, you know, just like, well, maybe find one that says auto on it.

Yeah. Like, yeah, I like the idea of embracing the button pushing. Another character doing that. It's like, it's a real swing away Merrill moment from Sines. Push that button whim. Do it. All right, SM33, as you mentioned, pegleg comes galumphing in. Yeah.

One eye has gone, so we're given that sort of eye-patchy vibe. Nick Frost is here. Yep. You love a new droid. Delightful. Not the ones that are potentially imprisoning people on a planet, but this piratical droid, SM3, named for Smi, from Peter Pan, where are you ranking him around the new droids that we've met of late?

Does he have a chance, a whisper of a chance, of overcoming our guy David Tennant as Hu Yang? Me, whoa. Who Yang? Yeah. as voiced and played by David Tennant. Yes. Because he is voiced and played by David Tenet simultaneously makes us want to study, learn,

and also have, like, very passionate sex. Okay. I'm not getting that from SM-33. Would you put Heung in your hair? I mean, I think there's a lot of, like, utility to consider there, you know? Right. A lot of different attachments. Exactly. Okay, good.

That, baby. Thank you. Knows how to work a lightsaber, you know? I do. You know, we've had a lot of great recent. Yeah. Droids enter our lives. I mean, so many wonderful.

Not every Star Wars story has worked recently, but the droids are consistently excellent. Yeah. I think that SM33 is going to be a winner. Yeah. The energy is wonderful so far. Nick Frost, great casting. The physical comedy is great, but also the menace. Yeah. He's got a little shield.

And also, like, yeah, dude, the heating up of the shields to just then burn his foes was so fucked up and dark. I loved it. And of course, you know, part of what is really effective and interesting, like we're building, before we get to the Eternal Treasure, this is a myth, like outright saying that about Outatim. What we get here with SM 33 is just the, I don't know what you're talking about. Like, I don't have this. Here's a bunch of other planets to start with A, but Adon is not in here. And so there's the question of like, well, okay, what actually maybe has happened to his memory banks?

It's a very effective way to I thought layer and build the intrigue because we pan out to all the stars. Like, oh my God, their loss, they don't know how to get home. But the listing of Adelon, Al-Aul-Corps, Aldani. Adelon Chopper Base from Rebels. Fantastic stuff. We already talked about the Aldani mentioned and how disturbing it was, obviously. But you're like, okay, we build the clarity that the reason he doesn't know about at Attenus because it's not a thing that there's knowledge about.

But what other knowledge does SM33 have that will be useful. And even later when Brutus and... You mean like the whole gang. The whole thing, holding an entire star map. Exactly. To get to lose. And in this case, a telephone. Yeah.

In this case right here, a telephone. When the pirates are like, how did they get here? How did they find us? How did they get past all these? Yeah. So obviously, like, it's clear that SM 33 was part of a pirate ship. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, there's a, okay, what a, what did that ship and that crew do?

We don't know how long the on Exender has been on at Aten. Buried beneath a lot of ground. Plenty of grounds. The hatch was pretty close to the surface. There was just like some. stuff detritus. Detritus. That one scrabble up the top revealed. But when the whole ship breaks free.

Also a lot of cobwebs. Yeah. Smells bad in there. And the skeletons are far along. It's been a while. It's been a minute. Okay. But the rat is doing great. The rat is, what's the rat? Oh. Oh boy. I wish we had not both just contemplated in the exact same moment what the rat has been eating. Oh, no.

Rattie. Before we leave this section, I do want to say that just to further praise our guy, Neil, and how perfect he is in every way. When Fern, obviously lying, says she killed the former captain. Something about ripping his guts out or whatever. And Neil's like, and Neil's like, Neil would never. Neil, buddy, it's not real.

She didn't do it. Neil's a sensitive soul. I love him. Okay. The gang goes to Tortuga, aka Port Borgo. I love how the little shuttle they take, which in the closed captioning is called a dinghy. It's sort of like bobbing and swing like a little ship to shore transport would. I love that.

And then our senses overload on Easter eggs. Now we'll get to like sort of a broader Easter egg section a little later on. But did you have a favorite Port Borgo detail? And was it all the space monkeys on the ropes? That was wonderful. So much chittering. I love some chittering. I think my favorite...

I'm not as a rule I'm pretty anti-chitter. Unless it's a monkey I can see. You were home. But if it's something that's scuttling and chittering... Then it's like crevice adjacent. You don't want it. You don't like what lurks in the unseen and unknown spaces. Yeah. Bad things chitter.

The monkey's innocent. Okay, go ahead. On the creature front, I will just say that the dubbed by a some... 33, we ferryman. This is just sensational. The we fairyman and his reaction to the credit, the old Republic credit, is like long before all hell breaks this at the lunch counter, our indication that that is a...

Is a cackle? Yes. And a scurry. It sure is. Oh, he's scurried. He's scurried with a quickness. On the, like, Easter egg front in this whole sequence, I think my favorite, not just because we recently got matching Apple Wars tattoos, and we love a tattoo.

But because that was just very funny to me, this like scary tattoo, I fucked up your tattoo and the droid is covered with tattoos. But that's like a hut. That's a hut clan sigil. So that was very interesting to me. It's a hut clan sigil, but yeah, the droid covered in tattoos. No notes. Excellent stuff. No notes.

Excellent stuff. What about you? Did you have a favorite? a stretch. There's a Captain EO reference here. And as a child of the 80s, I can only

who definitely in my very cool middle school way wore a Captain EO T-shirt. Actually, it's probably more elementary school, Joanna, but yeah, I definitely had a

captain EO T-shirt that I loved and wore a lot. Speaking of captains, Captain Fern. Yeah. May know an intergalactic titty bar when she sees

one. She loses her crew very quickly despite being the one to tell them to all stick together. Great stuff. Yeah. I would like to say that in the notes, Mallory said, seems like we finally landed on pod merch. And so you're saying, you're saying, for the record, you want the merch to read, Captain Fern may know an intergalactic titty bar when she sees one.

A sentence I wrote at roughly 4.30 a.m. this morning. We can keep Fern out of it. But I think we could say House of Our nose and into galactic titty bar when it sees one. Okay. I know it when I see it. Feels right. It feels right. Okay.

Yep. Yep. And then I just, I mean, I'm just obsessed with this assassin droid sales pitch that we get largely in the background, but I just want to read it out in case people missed it. Our prices are light years from exorbitant and satisfaction is insured. Buy now, buy now. Before your enemy samples the famous bargains of Borgo. Death comes to all, but these bargains are rare. Watch the droids dance, friends, dazzle in their lethality. Are you suffering from

assassination frustration? First of all, wonderful rendition by you. Second of all, obviously, it gets into the specificity of the assassination fairly quickly, but do you think the first part our prices are light years from exorbitant and satisfaction is insured is also the tagline of the intergalactic kitty bar? I think I think watch the droids dance might be part of the intergalactic titty bar experience. Intriguing. Yeah. There's a lot of...

This is very Taylor-Sharrant inverse to me. Death comes to all, but these bargains are rare. Yeah. This is like, there's a lot of assassination stuff happening. Are we landmanding? What are we doing? Are we lionessing? This is more like right now, this is very Yellowstoney to me.

Oh, okay. Yeah. But as you know, I would love to landman with you, and so would Chris at any point. It's Chris basically all we talk about. Chris told me that currently on Linus Zoe Saldania is trying to invade. I believe it's Iran. Maybe Iraq. I can't remember.

I am not current on Lyon, so I cannot comment, but I have stoned up every second of Landman with joy in my heart. I have a yellowstone question for you, actually. A friend of mine was asking me to ask you. I'm one episode behind. It's not current. This is a podcast by Skeleton Crew. He was asking if I thought, and. if you thought, because he knew to ask you, not me, the editing was off this season because they were trying to incorporate awkwardly squeeze in as much Kastner as they could, given his departure from the show.

I'm trying to think of how to, I have so many thoughts on this, but I'm trying to think of how to answer without maybe spoiling Yellowstone for people who don't actually want Yellowstone spoilers in this Skeleton Crew premiere pod. But here's what I will say is just a teaser. There has been, without. getting into any specifics of the who, the why, the what, the use of a gerbil, cadaver to an extent that I was, I was frankly not anticipating. Oh, they Charles danced it, but like times 20. When will you watch Lamb Man? When will you watch Interview with the Vampire? When you come down to watch Craven next week, let's watch The Interview with the Vampire premiere. When you watch interview with the vampire, I will watch Landman.

Done. Great. Wait, but there are fewer episodes of Landman than interview with the vampire. Yeah, well, you only have to watch a couple and then I am convinced that you will be hooked. You don't have to watch the whole thing. I will be. I know I will be. I will be. Okay.

In Landman, somebody loses a finger and then says, when asked, do you want to go to the hospital? Just bring me a cigarette and a Dr. Pepper. They're in the cooler. Is it to be more who says it? I know. Wouldn't that be amazing, though? Wouldn't that be a slightly better show? Okay, Stranger Danger. The Thielen Woman from the aforementioned intergalactic titty bar. Yep.

Who tries to help the girls, I think genuinely, right? It seems so, yeah. They're concerned, and they're right to be concerned. Stranger Danger. She thinks they're joking or lying when they say they're from Ed Aten. She says, quote, really, you're a couple of linderlings from the Lost Planet of Eternal Treasure. Okay, a lot going on here. lost planet of eternal treasure, huge. I have questions about linderlings. Yeah. I googled that immediately. It's not a thing.

No. So it could just mean like little ones, right? Yeah. In Thielen, right? Like little kinders, little niblings. Yeah. But, you know, lings. Yeah.

The lings means little. So what's a linder? The people of at Atten? Should we ask Ben Lindberg? If I remember I will. Linderlings. What does that mean? I should mention also, I thought this was really fascinating because most...

Did you pay attention to the... This is going to sound... There's no way for this to not sound eugenicsy. The sort of like alien to humanoid ratio of the kids in the class in Adaten, because obviously Neil looks... Yes. Different from his pals. But when Neil is like...

But when Neil is like, look at all these aliens, they look so weird. Yes. Yes. I thought that was very interesting. I mean, it's like ironic and funny because he's got a little trunk and they're like, can he stuff is drunk? And he's like, I don't. But it's like, again, they've never seen anyone else. They're like, ever.

Humanoids, hot bird people and little elephant guys. And that's it. That's the demographics of Edden. Entirely possible. Droid's galore. Okay. Just had some questions. The boys are looking for.

They're having a full when Harry met Sally moment. Like just a full I'll have. Oh, my gosh. I thought you're going to say. wait there there's too much pepper in my intergalactic bowl of glop. The noodles from Acolyte looked much, much better than this glop. You didn't think the cracking open a live space lobster. Yeah.

And coating the noodles with excrement and blood and guts purple. Seemed to be purple. That's very protein rich, you know? It could be delicious. I bet it puts a little bounce in your step. Okay. Vane gets involved. All right, I'm vain.

This fucker. We got an email from Gabriele, who said, For some reason, whenever you two brought up how long it had been since we've seen Cobb Vance, I pictured a different character in my mind, so I never quite understood why you loved him so much. Then in Skeleton Crew, he finally showed up. I was excited.

Oh, can't wait to hear them so excited to he's back. I looked up and I realized why I've been so confused. I had been mixing up Vane with Cobb for the past year, so I had imagined YouTube drooling over Vane and thought it was all a joke. Jokes on me. Cobb is hot. Let's all move on to Jude Law and blame my confusion on bad blue milk.

This is fantastic. Gray milk. I am completely comfortable. Yeah. With certain bad babies having spent the last couple years. Thinking we were counting down the days. Until first mate vein reappeared on the landscape. I'm fine with this.

I wrote these notes very early in the morning, so I'd like to you to remember that when I get to the next thing here. Wonderful stuff. Where I wrote, it's a Sme for All. And then you wrote in the next bullet point with multiple carrots pointing up. I'm not sorry about this. I also would like to tell you that it took me several seconds to think of that. Okay. The kids are cornered at an SM 33 in case M3, a case me shows up to fuck shit up.

Great stuff. It's got a little shield. Space Urkel, aka Deliel White, aka Gunter, pays attention and calls his boss, which is now Brutus, because of the aforementioned coup. Right. Were you a Family Matters fan? Oh my God, yeah. You love Urkel? Loved.

Big Earlville fan? Huge. Can you do the Urkel? When I was a kid. Oh, no, I don't need a refresher on. Did I do that? No, no, not that, but like, there was an Urkel dance. Oh.

Go ahead. No, I'm not doing it. We have three active cameras and basically a dance floor here. Consider it. I can't remember. I can't remember how to do the article, but it does involve pulling up your pants and snorting. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Did you ever wear suspenders? I was cooler than that. I wasn't cool. But I did know enough to not wear suspenders. This was a, this was a, I liked the way all of the different parties. from the spaceport converged here.

Because we have like the lunch counter crew right, the where'd you find an old republic credit in mint condition? Whoa, where the blazes did you get that?

The patron. The bar keep. We have the don't be stupid at Atten's a myth like reinforced from a different party. Yeah. All of that.

So this was just this was an interesting way to again, just cement that would you would you call this me for all? Everyone's involved

with this me for all. It's a smee for all. I wonder if at home it's raucous laughter from people listening to this or just deathly crickets. I fear. I think raucous laughter. Crickets, I fear. But I think you can guarantee it by standing up right now and doing miracle. So. All right. What's a brig? You might ask. Yeah. Brigg, in case you're curious at home. Because I was curious about the etymology. Because like, okay, I'm perfectly happy when an orc and Lord of the Ring. says meat's back on the menu boys and people are like, oh, I guess they have menus in Middle Earth. And I'm like, yeah, they have menus. It's fine. Get over it. But I was curious about Brigg, what the etymology of Brigg. Brigg is short for Brigantine, a kind of two-masted ship.

I mean, I knew what a brigand-was, but I was just like, what's it doing here? Brigantine, a kind of two-masted ship that was often used as a prison ship, which comes from the original Italian, which begs the question, if Italy were a planet in Star Wars, which planet would it be? Oh. Which part of Italy? Or I guess maybe that's part of what we need to consider here. Sure. That can give us some Venice, can give us some Florence, some Rome, some Sicily. What planet in Star Wars would have been the best setting for White Lotus season two?

Where do you think the trains run on time in Star Wars? Okay, so Neil, and then as you mentioned, with our with our, with our pal Rattie. Neil is either doing Garings the Galaxy Volume 2. Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. I would say Neil is doing Pirates of the Caribbean.

Also fine. And in fact, I would say that Neil is doing the Pirates of the Caribbean ride even over the Pirates of the Caribbean film, which is just adapting the part in the ride where the people in prison are trying to get the dog to get the keys. Are you fan of the Pirates of the Caribbean ride

at one Walter Disneyland? I have never had the pleasure. You know what it smells like on the Pirates of the Caribbean ride? Do I want to know what it smells like on the part? Wait, let me guess. The interior of the onic cinder. Actually, current day Aldani. Sulfurs is giving sulfur's bog on the Pirates of the Caribbean ride.

I love that ride. It rules. It's just a little dank in there. Okay. Uh-huh. We've gone for five hours on this podcast, I'm sure. I'm on the time of my life. And nearly two hours on the show without seeing the beautiful

face of one Mr. Jude Law. And yet here he is. I thought that we making us wait this long was cruel and unusual. Frankly. Proposterous. Yeah. Estonishing. You know what Jude Law looks like, right?

The chutzpah. The young Pope himself. It's the holidays. And it's time for the holiday. And you want to hold Jude Law back from us? He looks so hot. So hot in the holiday. That's his peak, I think.

Julia Lippman agrees with you, for sure. Yeah. there's a lot of, like, glasses. You don't think his peak is Ripley? Well, Dickie Greenleaf is a different kind of hot. Dickie Greenleaf is like, you're going to be mean to me, huh? I think that's like maybe, as you know, the hottest anyone has ever looked on screen is Harrison Ford and Witness. Sorry, you didn't give me a second, but yes.

But number two is Jude Law as Dickie Greenleaf and Tell us to Miss Ripley. In the running for number two, I think. But in that movie, he looks like he would be mean to me. And in the holiday, oh, you want that? No, I mean, you like that? No, actually, I don't. I've learned so much. I don't.

I actually want to, I want to be doaded upon and worshipped. Yeah, in the holiday, he's like, we don't have, we would talk about books. He's a book editor. We can just talk about books. That's pretty great. Okay. But you remember the bath and Ripley? Do you remember the saxophone in Ripley?

Okay. Hey, Jude. When the kids say very loudly that A, they have a ship and B, quote, I guess the legend is that at, add and holds some sort of eternal treasure. Yeah. Someone emerges from the shadows dramatically in a hood. Yep. Don't worry. And shackles.

It is an extremely hot force user. Potentially. Okay. Mm-hmm. So the kids are freaked out. He says, I'll help you. You help me. Yeah.

A little Benicio del Toro, a little like, Tiffrat action, right? Yeah. Um. Yeah. And the force theme plays. It's us. And he says in a Yoda-esque way, quote, the distance between us and the key is an illusion.

Yes. It sure seems like he force floats the key over. I cannot see any other explanation for how that key got over to him. But just because he is a forced user does not mean he was ever a Jedi. Certainly not. Though I'm willing to accept that he was a Jedi and is currently in hiding, maybe turn to a life of crime. Yes.

After he escaped, yet another escapee for Order 66. I'm here for it. As you know, I never tired of it. Whim is sure he's a Jedi. He's like, can you keep a secret? He neither confirms her denies. Can you keep a secret? And you're like,

did you see how he looked when he said it? Oh my God. Holy shit. So if he is in fact a force user and that part of what we see here is not a trick, then I like the idea of whim. I was looking for fishing wire. Me too. Me too.

For magnets. Same. then, and you know, we're not that far removed from seeing, like, in Obi-Wan, right, the, like, rotting meat in the sun. Well, yeah, also that it's been, there's been a lot of space whale meat in our lives recently, but they're like, oh, I'm going to pretend I'm a Jedi and I am going to use these, like, deceptive tricks. But assuming that he is a force user, I like the idea that he's been in hiding, like many have been, um, whim, who has, idolized and worshipped the Jedi having to confront the fact that, obviously, he had a Sith toy, so he knows this on some level, but that there's all the gray in between. That Captain Long John Silver is not what he appears to be. Exactly. That feels like an important

part of a likely whim arc is confronting that just because you can use the force doesn't mean you're either a Sith or a Jedi. So that would be interesting. I think our theory brains and, you know, it was difficult not to wonder if he can use the force why he didn't just break out in the first place. I think it's because he doesn't have a ship. If he has the force, why can he not just take a ship? Jedi mind trip. He's at a space port. I will say this.

Here's my answer to that. Yeah. The key goes real wobbly over. And so I say if he's using the force, the force is weak in this one. Okay. Yeah. He's like out of practice. Almost squibby.

You know what I mean? And so he cannot mind trick his way off the planet. I buy that. He doesn't have a ship. but the kids are like, we have a ship. We know we're treasures. And he's like, now's the time for me to make my great escape. Okay, I like it.

How do you feel about the idea of, like merging the idea of getting... Of Jude Law. I'm great. And you? Yeah, I feel great about it. Leung is so jealous, I know. Vanessa Kirby is fuming. How do you feel about joining the idea of getting home and finding the treasure?

It's the same quest. Home is the treasure. So often in these treasure stories, we're going to, you know, some fabled city, you know, some like temple somewhere, some far-flung island. Yeah. We need to get on a map. And they're like, we're like, we're trying to get home. Yeah. Yeah.

I love it. I love it. There are a lot of Old Republic credit. There are a lot of Old Republic credits there, though. There is also treasure there. There is a lot of them in Wim's sock and also presumably many more at home because Wendell was just like, here you go, it's for lunch. But yes, I do.

I love that, of course. And I am thinking like, okay, if Jude Law is just using these kids to hitch her eye and go find his riches, then what does his arc look like? What journey is he on? You got to use the technical goonies term, which is rich stuff. Rich stuff. Yeah, the rich stuff. Rich stuff go?

Yeah. Very good. It's almost as good as to speak for all. Okay. Yeah. Is he lying? Is he telling the truth? how good is he, how much can we trust him?

We saw him leading an invasion of a ship at the beginning of the series. So if he's offering him these kids, we're not trusting him at all. Why would we? No, of course not. Exciting. Adventure. Theory Corner. Yeah.

All right, we talked a bit about anything lingering around and at, and we talked about our supervisor theories. We learned the starships are not permitted to enter or leave. I mentioned Silo. I mentioned that episode of Doctor Who. Yeah. I will say the fact that it's like a foggy barrier. And again, Ben's going to talk a bit about this in his segment.

The fact that it's a foggy barrier and they're sort of stuck in time made me think of Brigadune or various other legends where there's like a town shrouded and mist that every hundred years the mist clears and the people are living these. Yeah. You know, delightfully primitive lives and that sort of thing. So, yes, I did find a way to talk about musicals. You're welcome. And then we went through our sort of our Captain Silvo. Yeah. Do you have any other Silvo thoughts?

No. Great. But he's got, Silvo is not his character name. That's right. So he's got at least two names so far on this show. Yeah. So let me think about it. It is.

Do you think it's like the Dread Pirate, Roberts. Like, that's why he was wearing the helmet. And he's just sort of like, it's a, it's a title, not a name. You know what? Could be? Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Do you, oh, I like that. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, his crew definitely knows what he looks like now because they took the helmet off before they're like, they're like, we wouldn't have done a coup. Perhaps you had hasty with the coup. No offense, Brutus. Okay. Oh, Brutus. Easter eggs. Ooh. Treasure trove. Talk about eternal treasure. Talk about Gunters. That's a reference ready player one of a movie I hate. Okay.

It's not a very good film. Not a very good film. Did you, okay, can I go first? Please. Hit me with your faves. On At Atten, Wim's Homeworld. Yeah. There is an arabesh.

Yeah. A Mel's, it says Mel's diner, but I'm going to call it Mel's drive-in. Yep. This is a San Francisco institution. There's one in Weho. There's one in West Hollywood. There is. There are three Mel's Drivens.

Two are in San Francisco. One is down. here in Los Angeles. We could go today, tonight. You prefer. I mean, as a San Francisco institution. We can also go next week before Craven. If we don't have time today. Are you going to like consider it? Are you going to hold me captain? Do we have the brig ready, guys? Are you going to make me go down to the minds that are underneath the Spotify offices? Mel's drive-in is not only a San Francisco institution. It is also heavily associated with American graffiti. So I considered it another American graffiti reference.

I love American graffiti. Love that movie. Yeah. Love. Little Ronnie Howard. All right. What do you want to call out in the Easter eggs here? We've already talked about a lot of my favorites. The opening ship boarding scene. The like Return of the Jedi speeder, chase through the woods-esque sequence with whim.

Bain. Wizard, power converters. Yeah. The Bob Falfanod. The Hutt clan tattoo. I think we've hit all my faves. I do, I think ultimately, though, if I had to pick one, like, oh, my God. It was when SM 33 said Adelon and then Aldani for very different reasons.

Those thrilled and terrified me. Yeah. But the Adelon stretch of rebels is just really, I mean, that's where our fucking guy Bend is. Like, I just love that. So that was really fun to hear. Yeah. Where does Criff rate for you as a Star Wars curse word? It's no dang ferric, and it never will be.

It's no caravast. And it never will be. Dang ferric Dang ferric. All right. And I mean like honestly the pirate stuff. Yeah. Like Smee, Captain Silvo, Vane, Wim Jim, all that sort of stuff like that.

Um, let's go now. Yeah. Perhaps shall we? To our conversation with Benjamin Lindberg. Let's do it. Snoring, gasping during sleep, feeling fatigued. Ask your doctor about zebbound. Terzepatite.

The first and only FDA-approved prescription medicine for moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea, OSA, and adults with obesity. Zepbound is a prescription medicine used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea, OSA, and obesity to improve their OSA. Zetbound is approved as a 2.5, 5, 7.5, 10, 12.5, or 15 milligram injection. Zepound contains terseptide and should not be used with other terseptide containing products or any GLP1 receptor agonist medicines. It is not known if Zepound is safe and effective for use in children. Don't share needles or pins or reuse needles. Don't take if allergic to it or if you or someone in your family had medullary thyroid cancer, or if you've had multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2.

Tell your doctor if you get a lump or swelling in your neck. Stop Zepbound and call your doctor if you have severe stomach pain or a serious allergic reaction. Severe side effects may include inflamed pancreas or gallbladder problems. Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes before scheduled procedures with anesthesia. If you're nursing, pregnant, plan to be, or taking birth control pills. Taking Zepbound with a sulfonel urea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. Side effects include nausea, diarrhea, and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and worsened kidney problems. Talk to your doctor.

Call 1-800-545-99 or visit Zepbound.lily.com. This episode is brought to you by Paramount Plus. Beth and Rip are back in a new series, Dutton Ranch. Kelly Riley and Colehouser returned, and this time they're taking on Texas. As Beth and Rip build a future together, peace will have to wait as they face corruption, danger, and a ruthless rival ranch, willing to protect its secrets at all costs. Legacy is a beautiful thing, but only if it survives.

Dutton Ranch starring Colehouser, Kelly Riley. Annette Benning and Ed Harris now streaming on Paramount Plus. Snoring, gasping during sleep, feeling fatigued, ask your doctor about Zepbound, terseptite. The first and only FDA-approved prescription medicine for moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea, OSA, and adults with obesity. Zepbound is a prescription medicine used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea, OSA,

and obesity to improve their OSA. Zepbound is approved as a 2.5-5-7.5, 10, 12.5, or 15 milligram injection. Zepound contains terseptitide and should not be used with other terseptide containing products or any GLP1 receptor agonist medicines. It is not known if Zepound is safe and effective for use in children. Don't share needles or pins or reuse needles. Don't take if allergic to it, or if you or someone in your family had medullary thyroid

cancer, or if you've had multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2. Tell your doctor if you get a lump or swelling in your neck. Stop Zepbound and call your doctor if you have severe stress. stomach pain or a serious allergic reaction. Severe side effects may include inflamed pancreas or gallbladder problems. Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes before scheduled procedures with anesthesia. If you're nursing, pregnant, plan to be, or taking birth control pills. Taking Zepbound with a sulfonel urea or insulin may cause low blood sugar.

Side effects include nausea, diarrhea, and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and worsened kidney problems. Talk to your doctor. Call 1-800-545-9-9 or visit Zepbound.lily.com. Mallory. Joanna. Undersecretary Farah is here, but more importantly, Ben Lindberg is here. It's soothing. It's soothing music when Ben joins us. It's very calm. Ben Lindberg, have you heard the good word about the great works? I have. What a joy to be back. Yeah. Last time I was Benny Jesserit, now I'm back to being Ben Kenobi. Star Wars, Dune. How different are they really? Always happy to talk whatever the topic. But this is actually related to a conversation that we had on our previous pod, Joe, because on the Dune pod, we talked about how in many sci-fi and fantasy worlds, technology and design and fashion don't change as quickly as we're used to seeing them change in real life. And sometimes there's an in-usey. universe explanation for that as there is in Dune. Sometimes it's just a matter of convenience or

brand identity because the storytellers don't want to have to keep reinventing the wheel or the energy shield or because they want the audience to be able to instantly place an IP when they see certain signifiers of a franchise. And Star Wars works this way too. So there's some change over time. The villains get better at building super weapons. The Jedi refined force techniques, or at least Ryan Johnson does. And in the sequel trilogy, ships can be tracked through hyperspace and stormtroopers fly now. But the basic building blocks, the lightsabers and blasters and speeders and hyperdrives and droids, a lot of that is fairly consistent, whether you're watching Mandoverse shows or reading about some Sith versus Jedi conflict from thousands of years earlier. And I bring that up because,

thanks to that consistency, skeleton crew pulls off a neat little sleight of hand in the premiere. The first episode starts with that text about the New Republic struggling to prevent piracy in the hyperspace routes, and then the captain of the bulk freighter in the opening attack, talking about being protected by New Republic decree, for all the good that does him. And then when we visit at Adden, there aren't any obvious visual indicators that conditions there are different from conditions in the rest of the galaxy, aside from the fact that we haven't really seen Star Wars suburbs before. So when the Republic is mentioned in the middle school on At Aten, one might assume that this is a new Republic planet. And based on various reviews I've read, many people did assume that.

But they were all of them deceived. Now they're catching straight as from Ben. They weren't Ben. That's for sure. Tough one. Yep. They needed a lore master to straighten them out. That's why I'm here.

So there are a few pretty solid hints in the first two episodes that could clear things up. For one, whims Jedi fixation. We know from the Mandalorian that Order 66 and the Empire's propaganda campaign worked almost implausibly well. By this point, many people aren't even aware of the Jedi, or if they are, they treat them like legends, unless Hans around to tell you it's all true. Out of sight, out of mind. So it's odd that this kid is reading Jedi stories and drawing Jedi on his etch-a-sketch

and dreaming about being a Jedi, then we hear about the barrier. We don't exactly know how it works, but clearly it's something that's to supposed to prevent travel off the planet at the very least. In the second episode, of course, the dude at the food place at Port Borgow points out that the coins Wim got from his dad are Old Republic credits, which Wim calls dataries or dieteries, as Quigon called them in the Phanomenes. And, Mal, you asked me about this earlier. It's a regional pronunciation, maybe.

Technically, the term old republic refers to the republic of a thousand years or more before the empire. Whereas the more modern pre-empirate republic is called the Galactic Republic. But people also sometimes use old republic kind of interchangeably to refer to the government that immediately preceded the empire. So I don't know if the guy who sees Wim's credits is such a coin expert, a numismatist. Is that what the word is? I don't know if he's dating these coins. Google and confirm it.

I should have said, is that how you pronounce the word? Because that's, that was the real question. Datories, dieteries, numismatists. Yeah. But I don't think that guy is instantly dating these coins and saying, oh, these are from the old republic as in ancient. Do you think he's a stamp guy? He could be. Philatelist. Philatelist. I didn't Google that one. Off the dome. It's apparent. Beautiful. So just that they're pre-emper empire and old, and they're in mint condition. So unless Wendell, Wim's dad, is a coin collector who just, hands out antique coins for lunch money. Something strange is going on here. Plus, nobody knows where

Atten is at. And the pirates think it's a mythical lost planet. But, and this is where the great works come in, the clue that made my ears perk up most, comes on at Atten in the scene at the school about the career test assessment choice, which will dictate your entire life how you do on this test. No prior to your idea. I actually know. It's super normal. Really fine. Don't worry about it. Undersecretary Farah, Fern's mom, who's played by the great Carrie Condon, tells the class, once you're assigned a career path, you'll become part of our planet at Atten's contribution to the great work, keeping the Republic peaceful and strong. And then the droid says, students, tell the Undersecretary how you would like to contribute to the great work.

So this is not Mother Raquelah's great work of preserving the Betty Chessert's sisterhood, or the mother of redesigns, Mallory Rubin's great work of relaunching the ringer.com. A even greater website than before. This may be a reference to specific great works that took place during the High Republic era, hundreds of years before a skeleton crew, which might help us pinpoint how long at Aten has been cut off from the galaxy. So the introduction to the first High Republic book, Charles Sol's 2021 novel, Light of the Jedi, starts like this. The Force is with the Galaxy. It is the time of the High Republic, a peaceful union of like-minded worlds where all voices are heard and governance is achieved through consensus, not coercion or fear. Sounds nice. It is an era of ambition, of culture, of inclusion, of great works. We learn in that book and subsequent books that great works refer to specific initiatives undertaken by the chancellor at that time, Lena Soe, who takes over about 250 years before the Mandoverse era.

She was sort of a FDR-style new dealer who had all these public works projects that were intended to expand the public and bolster its reputation and boost morale, developing Bacta and forging key alliances and improving the calm relays and building medical aid ships and holding a series of World's Fair style events called the Republic Fair, constructing starlight beacon, a massive space station in the outer rim. So each of these wonders of the world of the galaxy is called a great. work. Now here's how that book, Light of the Jedi, ends. This is talking about Nina So, the Chancellor. All she wanted, truly, was for five words to live on past her term, even past her life, the words that had already become emblematic of her great works and so much more. Every time she heard them, her heart lifted. That was the goal, one idea, one sentiment, she could do it, everyone could do it, Chancellor So knew it was true, five words, we are all the Republic. Sturing words. So that sounds a lot like the undersecretary is very ra-ra, patriotic, almost kind of culty devotion to the idea.

Kind of authoritarian, a little bit. A little. She's into fortifying the republic. And in fact, in Faris House, there's a mural on her wall, which we just glimpse in the background when Fern comes in with a woman at the center who looks like she could be chancellor or so, not confirmed, just speculating. So when she talks about the great work, she could be referring to a specific great work that at Aten was assigned or just the general high republic era ideal of devoting oneself to serving and strengthening the republics. So my working theory as a result is that At Aten has been cut off for hundreds of years, which explains why no one knows where it is.

And there's a pretty rich tradition in Star Wars and sci-fi of hidden planets with secret treasures, which maybe we can cover on next week's pod. This hidden planet seems to be a time capsule, which is pretty exciting for me, a person who prepared for the Acolyte by reading several High Republic novels, none of which was of any use to me in analyzing the acolyte. But maybe I was prepping for a different show without even knowing it. Maybe that prep is paying off in Skeleton Crew of All Places. For what it's worth, the author of White of the Jedi, Charles Sol posted on Blue Sky that he was watching Skeleton Crew and he liked the great works reference. So he seems to have interpreted that scene the same way. So if he and I aren't reading too much into these two words, which were said twice for emphasis, just in case you missed it the first time, then there are some interesting implications because Atten may as well be from before the dark times, before the empire. If the kids haven't seen the stars, presumably they haven't seen the star worse.

They don't know about the new republic, the rebellion, the death star, they don't know about Order 66. I wouldn't want to break that news to win. I don't know if he's going to take that well. And I don't want to encroach on Theory Corner, but this raises the question of why it's so stuck in time. Is this a Star Wars version of the village? Shout out to M. Knight. Are the supervisor and the security droids keeping people in the dark?

Yes. If so, why? Is this place some sort of social experiment or high republic sleeper cell? And if the treasure of Atten isn't just the friends we made along the way or a pile of gold de blooms, what is it? Is the treasure that this is a peaceful Truman Show Pleasantville place that's free from all the cares of the galaxy? Or is it some secret technology that could play a part in Grand Admiral Thorne's plans or the rise of the first order? Who knows? The last thing I'll note is that the High Republic Multimedia Project is largely about the

Galactic Republic's war with the Nile, this group of mercenaries who started out as pirates raiding the outer rim and controlling the hyperspace lanes, not so different from what's happening in the present in skeleton crew. And one thing the Nile do is project a giant barrier called the Storm Wall, which is some sort of energy field that seals off large swaths of the outer rim from the Republic. Only Nile ships can cross the storm wall. All other ships are destroyed. most communications can't get through.

So when we get a glimpse of the barrier on Atten, we see the sky for a second, we can see some blinking red lights in the clouds, which reminded me of the storm seeds that generate the storm wall. So could the barrier be a leftover remnant of the storm wall? Could the crew of SM33 ship have been Nile? Is that how they got through? I'm not really expecting a kid-friendly Disney Plus show to be heavily reliant on high Republic lore, but then I wasn't sure if skeleton crew would give us any lore to work with.

So I'm pleasantly surprised to have this sort of stuff to chew over and to talk to you about. Thank you, Ben. Wonderful stuff. The best. Tough early feedback from Neil on how the Nile smell, if that was in fact, their ship. It's been a minute. It has in fact been a minute. That's true.

They're rotting the passage of time. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The must of time. Yeah. That would be canon accurate, I think, for them to not smell so great. That's true. That's fair. That's fair.

You mentioned the droids. That interaction, Ben, that Wendell and the patrol droids, the patrol security droids had, was so sinister. Yes. And explicit. Like, there's not even much we need to interpret, right? There's the idea of the hidden planet, what do the people not know? But then the outright impossible starships are not permitted to enter or leave. Not permitted to mentor or leave.

They don't want anyone to find them, and they don't want the people of this planet to go anywhere else. Reaching the barrier is a serious violation. The supervisor will not. Who do you think the supervisor is? Great question. I don't know. Is there anyone build high up on the cast list that we haven't seen yet? Or is this just going to be another droid?

I wonder, though, if this is some sort of conspiracy. I mean, who's in on it then? because clearly Farah seems to think, Wendell seems to think, that their work is important, that they're actually helping out the Republic here unless they're part of perpetuating this conspiracy. But how deep does it go? How high does it go? Plenty of people think their work is important without knowing what they're doing or why, right? Sounds like we're about.

It's like all of us. Yeah. The employees of Lumen. Hey. Yeah. Exciting stuff, Benjamin. We look forward to, uh, future episodes?

I did not expect maybe a deeper high republic tour and a tie-in and more intriguing mystery than we got in the Acolyte, a mystery show. I did not necessarily expect that to happen in Skeleton. This is the second show this week where Ben has just decided to grind the heel of his boot on the Acklein's throat. It had its moments. Thank you. Bye, buddy.

Bye. Bye. All right. Ben is the best as always. We're going to close out today with a. conversation with John Watts and Christopher Ford and their thoughts about pirates and streamers on spacebikes. Ooh. And latchkey kids and the 80s. Let's hear it.

I wanted to start by asking you, well, speaking of audio equipment, I was reading in this interview that Jake Shrier gave that you guys did a radio, pirate radio play when you were back at NYU. Is that true? Yeah. And if so, what is it about pirate stories that is fascinated for you for so long? And is there any sort of DNA in that project inside of this show? Yeah, it was like a radio drama. Like one of the first things you have to do at NYU is like a radio drama.

Before they give you a camera, they're like, first you got to make. Yeah, I have to do sound first. You sound and you do still photographs and you're like, I want to learn to make movies. Yeah, they really ease you into it. I don't know. I've always liked pirates. I think from like reading Treasure Island when I was really little and then playing Monkey Island on my PC. The idea of just like getting on a ship and going off and getting into an adventure to a kid growing up and like landlocked Colorado, like that was the most exciting thing I could ever imagine.

So yeah, to do space pirates was always, you know, a big dream. Dream come true. You mentioned Treasure Island. One of the names that Jude Law's characters goes by is Captain Silva, right? And we've got a young curious boy named Wim. Like, how much are we supposed to be thinking about Treasure Island and Jim Hawkins and all of that as an inspiration for this story? I think it's all there. Sometimes we're putting in references to things without even realizing it because it's all just kind of subliminally.

Yeah, Jim Wim. Jim Wim. Maybe we thought we knew that at one point. Did we do that on purpose? I don't know. It's been such a long time. Let's just say, yeah. Yeah.

Sounds good. No, but shreds around, definitely a huge influence. Yeah. It was fun. One of the parts of the process was we always tried to sort of, Dave Filoni would always talk to us about like how George Lucas had developed the original Star Wars. Yeah. And like his creative process.

So we tried to kind of do the same thing. Yeah. Do a similar process as opposed to try to aim at the same results. Yeah. So if he would go and be inspired by World War II movies and Kurosawa movies, like we went back and watched, you know, old pirate serials and, you know, like Captain Blood and the Seahawk and things like that, and then use those to sort of influence our story.

I'm curious there is such a, like with every new Disney show, book, comic book, movie, the tent of what is Star Wars just keeps getting bigger and bigger and bigger, which is exciting. But I'm curious when you are thinking about selling this show to people who love Star Wars,

what would you say, if you love X about Star Wars, this is why this feels like Star Wars to us? If you love Luke Skywalker, looking at the twin sons of Tatouine. Yeah, that is kind of the spirit that we were trying to capture. I mean, we had this fortunate thing where

We're telling this story through the eyes of four 10-year-old kids. So it's automatically a new perspective on the Star Wars world that you already know and love. So we're hoping to sort of capture the spirit of what it feels like to see Star Wars for the first time. So whether or not you're actually seeing it for the first time, and this is the first Star Wars show that you ever see, or if you're someone who knows a lot about Star Wars and hopefully it reminds you of how that felt, like we're trying to bring those two groups of people together. I love that. Did you have anyone working on this show who wasn't very familiar with Star Wars so you could sort of see it through their eyes?

It's hard to find these days, someone who is not working in the industry and wasn't brought up on Star Wars, you know? No. The kids, like the kids, you know, are, they're all 10 and 11. They all know it. It's like it's ubiquitous. But when you would ask them about it, they would talk about their dads. Yeah. And in a sweet, loving way.

Yeah. So it was like. It's always good to, like, ask the kids what, you know, what they think is going on and how they feel about this scene because they're not approaching it from, like, any sort of, like, deep lore place or, like, a nostalgia because they don't know. Yeah, it's, like, it's, like, and they have to play it. They're in the scene. Yeah. Yeah. Was there any reaction from them other than them invoking their dads?

Was there any reaction from them that surprised you when they were talking about what this world felt like for them? Hmm. They know a lot about, like, the Phantom Menace, right? You thought that, yeah, that stood up to you. I was really surprised that, like, of all the Star Wars things that they knew about, they knew a lot of them. Well, you know, it's interesting is I've, my kids who are 9 and 6 have seen just the Phantom Menace and then the original trilogy. Yeah. Because I felt like they weren't quite ready for Attack of the Clones and the Ridge of the Sits because those are actually quite dark.

Yeah. So maybe, yeah. I guess that was... Young kids, maybe just dabbling, starting, and, you know, kid Anakin, and it's like, don't tell them that he becomes a horrible. Yeah, they only like the pod race, you know, like young Anakin, that you don't want to let him know what happens. Oh, boy.

That makes sense, actually, now that you pointed out. Was a wizard already in the script a couple times before you realize his Phantom Menace connection? Oh, no. No, no, that's on purpose. Yeah, but we had to probably do less than we had scripted. Yeah, got a little old. Yeah. Don't overdo the wizard.

But it was hard because there's a kind of... Nothing is less wizard than saying wizard all the time. Yeah, don't be... Don't be so unwisered about it. Yeah, don't be unwisered. It's like... Star Wars is interesting when it comes to words like that because the characters feel very contemporary.

When Hans Solo talks, he doesn't feel like he's in a high fantasy thing. You know, he says, go to hell and stuff like that. Or I'll see you in half. Hell. Yeah. Right, right. So, but then when the kids talk, every now and then I would want them to say cool. And you're like, no, but that's not quite.

Yeah. Right. Okay. We're not going to say cool. We're not going to say cool. And it was kind of tricky to find that version of that. Yeah, figuring out like what kid. It was a gift.

How kid language translates to the Star Wars universe. You mentioned that sort of lack of nostalgic coming off the kids. I, of course, was like swimming in nostalgic waters because I grew up an ambling kid, of course, and I watch Flight of the Navigator and Goonies and all of that. And I'm curious when you see the suburban sprawl in this planet and you're thinking about ET or whatever it else is you're thinking of, when you're designing something like that or you're putting streamers on their speeder bikes, like how do you thread the needle between Amlin nostalgia and this needs to look like Star Wars? You have the incredible design team at Lucasfilm to keep you honest. You know, we always start by talking about it from a story perspective. Like, this is, you know, this is the story that we're telling.

This is how it fits into the larger arc. This is kind of the feeling that we're looking for. We want to sort of see what, like, a middle class, kind of quiet, calm, safe world would look like. And then you pitch that to them with some broad strokes ideas, and then they come back to you with these incredible, incredible, you know, Star Wars designs. And for us, the difficult thing is just like picking which one to go with because they're all amazing. You know, Doug Chang and his team are just like incredible. Was there anything you asked for or someone put on the page that someone at Lucas Holmes said,

that's not Star Wars, we can't do that? No, they're the ones that are like, they're Star Wars. Yeah, that's true. They can do it. Yeah, you feel like Doug Chang is never going to show you anything that isn't Star Wars. Yeah. When you, whose idea was it to put the streamers on the bike? Is that them?

I think it was a good question. That was us. But then. Like, did we write that in? Or did they just try it out and we felt like it worked? I think they were there when it showed up. I mean, it's this thing where you feel safe because you have all of Lucasfilm. You have John Favro.

You have Dave Filoni. And then you get nervous sometimes where you're like, I kind of want to put streamers on the bike. Are there streamers in Star Wars? Wars. And then you called Dave Faloni up in the middle of the night. And you're like, Dave, wake up. Are there streamers in Star Wars? And he's like, there are if you put them on that bike. And you're like, oh, whoa. Yeah. Is this too much power? That's how that's how it felt. I love that. Well, you mentioned this idea of like safe, calm, middle class suburbia, but there's also this very, like some very sinister stuff in the margins of this world.

Obviously, without spoiling it as you unroll it. But how did you, how did you decide how, how much of a edge to put on the borders of this idyllic world in these first couple episodes. Go ahead. I was going to say, I think that safe, calm suburbs in real life are a little bit suspicious. Yeah. So that was kind of always going to be in there. But a big part of it is the kids' perspective. I mean, to them, they're used to it.

Yeah. That's how they grew up. So they're not, they don't think anything's weird on this planet necessarily. But we always wanted to make sure that the day. danger in the world felt real. Something that Kathy Kennedy would say about Amblin movies when they were making them is that they never thought of them as though they were making kids movies. She said, we were always, you know, Stephen would say these are grown-up movies that just

happen to star kids. So that was something that we always kept in our mind where we had to make sure the stakes felt real. Like the kids had to legitimately be in danger. And the fear and the threat had to be real. Otherwise, it just started to feel like a kids' show for kids. But we wanted this to be able to be watchable by kids, but also be able to stand next to everything else that's been made in the Star Wars.

Yeah, and the original concept of kids being lost in the galaxy is that they need to be in over their heads. We need to challenge them. And a big part of the writing process was riding ourselves into a corner. How could the kids possibly get out of this situation? Yeah, if they're actually a hard situation and you're 10, and they don't have superpowers or anything. Yeah, they don't know how to fly ships.

They don't even really know how to start a ship. Like, how are they possibly going to get themselves out of these situations? One of the things that I loved watching this, you know, the first couple episodes when we're really establishing the world that they come from the first episode, it was giving the beginning of the never-erning story. There's just like this idea of the absentee, busy 80s parent that's like, I've got too much work to do, or I'm divorced, or I'm a single parent or something. like that and I just don't have time for you.

And it's this reason why the kids on bikes genre works so well to sort of like where are the parents. Yeah, it's that Lashkee kid kind of feeling. Yeah, which is how I grew up and it seems normal to me. But listen, but I'm curious sort of how you think about that, how you think about that with the parents' involvement going forward. Because I know the parent, you know, based on how you've cast it, the parental figures are going to be part of the story. So how are you thinking about that as like maybe slightly different from the latchkey or, What do you think? Yeah, well, in the Amblin movies, like, the parents rarely even come back in at all.

Right. Right. Yeah, certain ones. But for us, I think it was, and it's a Star Wars theme, that our modern-day world is this big machine, you know? And that's what the empire was supposed to be. And it doesn't necessarily need to be nefarious to be true. Like, those parents in those movies where they're too busy to be there for their kids is because they had to work. They had to do these things. And that's part of why we wanted to feel like the suburb.

It's a little bit atomized. And his dad's not there for him because he just has so much work to do and so much is expected of him. And so the problem that the parents are going to be facing trying to save their kids is that they're not necessarily free even in the suburb. They're part of this bigger machinery that just is our modern society. And I think that's what the mythology of Star Wars is actually about in a deeper way. And we try to tap into. Yeah. I love that. There's also, I mean, there's something really interesting going on in Star Wars right now when it has to do with the moral gray. You know, we grew up the Star Wars. The original trilogy that I grew up with is so light side, dark side. And then there's this murky moral gray that is more and more on the minds, I think, of the creators making Star Wars now. And I'm curious when you have someone like Jude Law's character who is called by several different names over the course of these episodes, who people are.

are warning the kids to stay away from him, and he is assuring the kids that he can help him. This is not just like a long John Silver question, but it's a sort of like, who gets to tell you what, like, are you good, are you bad, that sort of question? So how interesting is that to you inside of the Star Wars universe? I think it's just like fundamental to like all sort of coming of age stories as well, too. Like it works really well in the Star Wars universe, especially because it's like been so defined like light side, dark side. But, you know, Big part of growing up is realizing that the world isn't quite as binary as you're taught. But you're taught that way to help you understand, you know, these two sides.

And as you get older, you realize that it's more complex. Yeah. But at the same time, so it's like if Jude's character is more complex and he's meeting these kids who still believe in Jedi fairy tales and think the world is so simple, they have a lot that can learn from him. But I think he also has a lot that he can learn from them because maybe it's naive. but at the end of the day, past all this gray stuff, sometimes there is just something that's right and wrong.

Yeah. When it comes down to. So there's something to be learned from both sides of that. Yeah. I love that. I'm really excited. This morally great character is my favorite kind of character. A character on an arc we famously love.

I'm curious, you know, you're incredible filmmakers. You're playing in the world of television where you're, you know, you're overseeing this, you're writing this, but then you're handing it off to this incredible collection of directors that you've assembled for this. What is it like for you as a writing team to hand your creation over to someone else who gets to then shape it? Isn't it nice?

Yeah, selfishly, as a director, I love being able to watch other directors direct because you never get to do that as a director. Like, you're the only one there. And I just, I was always afforded so much freedom at Marvel by, you know, Kevin Feige to just sort of go off and make the Spider-Man movie that I wanted to make and then put it together and then show it to him. So I kind of wanted to afford that same freedom to the directors on this show. You know, we wrote it. We would have animatics. You know, we'd talk about the tone and the story beats. And then we would do our best to just sort of let them go and bring their, you know, vision to the episodes, knowing that we would all then get together and edit it together and make sure it was a cohesive whole. But it was fun and freeing and honestly, like, nice to just sit back and let someone else do

the work for a change. I love that. You're like, oh, this is a lot of that. I'm curious. So part of your process, as I understand it, is that you, John, record all of the dialogue on an audio track and then give it over to the people who were doing pre-vis and other things. Yeah, they would be storyboarding it. And they would, what we realize is that they would storyboard it and cut it together,

but with, like, subtitle cards for all the dialogue. And so you're not really able to look at the images because you're always just reading the words. So I thought, why not give everyone, like, a sense of timing by just, like, reading the whole script and using that to time it out. And it's funny because you realize that you're, like, doing voices. Like, you're giving a performance that is maybe not clear at all. the page, but it's sort of like what's in your head. And then that ends up informing a lot of other things, like character design and pacing.

Yeah, like the Kim's voice. Yeah, like I was doing like a kind of like a Catherine Hepburn voice when I was doing one of the alien characters. And I think there's no way that anyone was anticipating that's what the character in our head was like. Do the actors get to hear this on your track that you lay down? Yeah, I mean, like I always... It's a starting point. It's a starting point. I always warn them and say, you don't have to watch this if you don't want to.

But it's usually they end up just laughing and then making fun of me. You do a lot of accents. But I'll come back to the pirate audio. Yeah, pirate radio drama. That's where I started in pirate radio. I love it. I love it. Well, I guess my last question is then when you bring someone like Jude, I'm so excited that Jude is doing Star Wars.

It's thrilling to me. thrilling to me. When you bring someone like Jude in to play this deliciously complicated character, how much of your take is in his take and how different is he doing this character from how you sort of put him on the page or audio narrated him? Yeah, he kind of deepened it. I think we were totally on the same page about it. He totally got what we were going for.

And then he just broadened it and deepened it and made it just what our idea was but more so. Yeah, I mean, he does what a great actor does, which is take, you know, your idea on paper and, like, turns it into a three-dimensional, complex character. And he's also a huge Star Wars fan. So there was no, like, getting up to speed about anything in the universe or any lore. Like, he already knew it all. So, like, yeah, he just, we're so fortunate to have him. Excellent. Well, thanks for the time.

I really appreciate it. Sure, yeah. Really nice to meet you. Thanks. Nice to meet you. Okay, so that does it for this episode of House of R. so much to my beloved Mallory Rubin. Thank you to Benjamin Lindberg. Thank you to John Watts and Christopher Ford. Thank you for chatting with us. Thanks to John Richter and Stephen Allman.

Yes. On the video production side of things. Thanks to Arjuna Rangipal for trying to fix the temperature in the studio for you. It did not work. I mean, I genuinely appreciate it. Arjuna put an entire phone call in trying to He's the best. He's the best. We love Arjuna. Arjuna keeping me in... No, no free ads. Okay. And then, certainly not at least. Jummy had dinner on. Wonderful.

What a crew. What a skeleton crew? No. That's two... You're a robust crew. It's true. Mutanty then. We'll see you next week. We're Doom Prophecy. Yes. And more skeleton crew.

Yes. And something else? Crayven, the hunter? We'll see if Craven ends up being the end of next week or the top of the following week. That might depend on some... Whether or not you shackle me in your basement. Warther O'Hiram. We have a lot coming up in the next week and a half-ish. I didn't mention War the Roher Hiram, but I am so excited for it.

I've accepted you with my Craven. I know. It's a little obsession. It's quite disturbing. We'll see you next time. Bye!