House of R - ‘Stranger Things’ Season 4 Revisited (Part 2)

Episode Date: November 11, 2025

Mal and Jo are ready to face off against Vecna as they wrap up their rewatch of ‘Stranger Things’ in the run-up to the fifth and final season. Now it’s time for Part 2 of Season 4! They talk about their original experience with this season, hand out some superlatives, and look ahead to Season 5. (00:00) Intro(08:25) Opening snapshot(50:52) Stranger superlatives(02:15:32) Season 5 look-ahead Prepare for one last adventure at Target. Visit target.com/StrangerThings Hosts: Joanna Robinson and Mallory RubinProducers: Carlos Chiriboga and Jade WhaleySocial: Jomi AdeniranAdditional Production Support: Arjuna Ramgopowell and John Richter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Greetings. And welcome to House of Art, a Ringerverse podcast on the Ringer Podcast Network. I'm Mallory Rubin. Joining me today to remind all of us that you've got to be clean to enter the mind. It's Joanna Robinson. Wow, you've got to be clean. It's something that none of our main characters have thought about in the last few episodes that we were covering here, I think. The entire pod today is basically a hygiene watch because we are wrapping up. our Stranger Things rewatch, the March to new episodes, the March to Season 5. Today we will be doing Season 4 Revisited, Part 2.

We will be talking about episodes 7, which we move from Volume 1 to Volume 2 for our purposes, 8 and 9, and then at the end of today's pod, we will be briefly looking ahead to Season 5. Hype meter for Season 4, Part 2, Joe? Out of control, beyond. In the stratosphere. better than any peanut butter you could smuggle. I agree. We will get to it right after this.

This episode of House of ours presented by Target. Have you heard? Stranger Things is back at Target, and it's time to gear up for the upside down. Head back to the 80s with awesome exclusives like the unreal Demagorgon popcorn bucket, the fog over Hawkins candle that reveals secret messages, and the Demogorgon bundle box that's full of cool surprise.

New items are dropping all season long, so prepare for one last adventure at Target. Okay, Joe. A lot going on in addition to the Stranger Things rewatched Bonanza. At the end of this week, we're going to be talking about some movies. It's true. You've now seen Frankenstein. I haven't yet. I got some text from you about it.

I'm very excited to discuss with you. We're going to be talking about Frankenstein, which is currently streaming on Netflix. And then tonight, you and you and. I are going to advance greetings of running man. So we're going to do a running man Frankenstein too for at the end of the week. Really excited about that. Will you be wearing an all yellow Adidas action suit just to honor the original cinematic canon? I feel if anyone's watching us on YouTube or Spotify where they want to watch this podcast, I feel like me showing up in this like Max-esque zip up number that I have on today is very unlike me and is,

costuming as I get. So I don't know that I can do double costume in one week. Yeah, you're really leaning in for the Strangerthics pods. You did the baseball tea. These are items I own. I didn't purchase anything. I just have some things. But I don't know. How about you? You love to buy a costume piece. Are you going to go all yellow for Friday? Unlikely, not really my color. We'll see if the new film. We'll see if the 2025 film inspires there's any cosplay or wardrobe honors on my part. We'll see. Next week, you know, who knows?

It's the time of year where things can move, things can change. But our intention at the moment, should our schedules and the schedules of a guest we are in contact with, cooperate, we will be resuming the Nolan rewatch. It's no longer hot Nolan summer. It is crisp Nolan fall, or should we say? a Chris Nolan Fong F

Nolan fall That'll make more sense if our guest comes through Which ringer colleague Could it be Who we're hoping to have With us could be anyone Spoiler warning for today's pod show

Everything at this point is on the table This is the last rewatch pot We can talk about anything We're going into detail About episodes 7, 8, 9 But anything that happened in seasons 1, 2, 3 or 4 could come up today

And we're going to talk, you know, a little bit about... I have a question about the canonical stage play for Shadow. What are we doing about that? I have some, like, intel, so I have some friends who saw it, so I have some, like, lore intel that we know is canon for the show. Is that kosher to talk about? Or do we presume that they're going to retread it enough in season five, whatever is important from the stage show,

that it feels spoilery? to talk about. How do you feel about that? Great question. I have not seen the show, so I don't know exactly how to feel about this, but here's my instinct. If it's hardcore plot, maybe we don't go into it. But if it's more about Ted Wheeler's dick. We did get an email about that. I think we should talk about it. I think we should talk about that. Okay. What do you think? Is that your instinct as well? I don't know. There's just some in terms of like our speculation of like, could this be true? And then the stage play has already answered that it's not true.

Then it feels weird for me to speculate about something where the information's already out there and everyone has said that it's canon. Do you know what I mean? That feels weird territory for me. Yeah. I always wonder with this like adjacent canon that is technically canon, but is not the core show canon if they will. this is more canon than

I'm sorry we said word canon like 900 times this is more canon than I usually feel about something like this they were promoting you know every time they talk about it you know when Jamie Campbell Bauer talks about what happened with his character in the stage show he's like which is canon which I hope you can see before the final season you know what I mean and all the promo for it but not everyone can fly their butt to New York so it's very yeah it's a very odd thing for them to have done I can't believe

that it can be, like, essential to your understanding of season five. So, yeah. This isn't like, we're really hoping you watch Star Wars Rebels. And, like, you can because it's on Disney Plus, but, like, maybe you won't. So we'll catch you up on some of them. It's like, how many people who watch Stranger Things are actually going to go, be able to go see this? I mean, it would be great. I'd love to.

There's, here's, let me just, I'm just, this is the last I'm going to say about this until later when we talk about season five, look ahead. But this is the promo copy. that has me like brought to live by multi-award winning creative team this gripping new adventure

will take you right back to the beginning of Stranger Things story and may hold the key to the end. So obviously that's them trying to get your butt to New York.

But like I don't know, I don't know. It's, I feel conflicted. Well, I'll say I'm unspoiled on this canon. It's, it's undiscovered country to me.

So I don't know. Do it feels right. Follow your moral compass. How many people do you think have seen this, this show? I mean, it's quite popular, but that's merely a drop in the bucket. And I also know some people who've seen the stage show who don't even watch stranger things. So, you know, it's complicated. It's complicated.

Intriguing. How can everybody follow along, Joe? Okay. I'll leave that. I'll leave the theater talk aside. Listen, why do you follow the podcast? Like, subscribe to the pod on your podcast. choice. Why don't you do that? Whether or not you can get to the stage play, follow the pod.

Follow us on social. That might be a good thing to do. The social media platform of your choice, we're not going to tell you which one. Watch us on YouTube on Spotify and email us. Please. Hobbits and Dragons at gmail.com. The stranger thing emails have been plentiful. The Buffy emails are ongoing. We should say, for an update for the Buffy watch, we are not planning to come back to Buffy until January. in the new year. So we're pressing pause on Buffy. We've got a lot of stuff happening for the last rush of the year. But we will be back to it in January, for sure. I can't wait. Speaking of the mailbag, let's get to our opening snapshot and let's start the opening snapshot by hearing from the bad babies.

This episode is brought to you by Sweet Green. The day doesn't ask for permission. Lunch window? Gone before you saw it coming. You deserve a break that actually satisfies. Sweet Green's new wraps have got you. Real ingredients? Zero shortcuts. Everything you love in one hand. Think green goddess chicken. Garlic aoli. Crumbled bacon. Corn salsa. 40 grams of protein. Made to keep up with whatever comes next. New sweet green wraps hit different. Order now at order.com. I'm going to zoom through these because we have a lot to get through. So I'm not going to like read a lot of these in full. But I do want to, we got a very beautiful moving email from our listener Marissa just sort of right before we started recording that. I just want to say, Marissa. Thank you for your email. Our listener, Elena, sent a photo wherein she

reenacted Max looking through the binoculars at Steve's torso with Caleb and Gaten at a con last year. How did you feel? I put the photo in the doc. How do you feel about this photo? This is all of like the memes in one to me. This is like 10 out of 10 no notes. This is tough to see someone else living your dreams. Like, it's everything. This is just absolute perfection. and they're really, they're really playing along. They're leaning in in full. It's great. Caleb again are pulling incredible faces.

So great stuff for, I think you would pronounce her name, Alina. It's a beautiful spelling of it. Our listener, Zoe, let us know that she wasn't sure that Steve would have gotten the job of Family Video because apparently you have to take a rigorous test. Zoe worked at Family Video to work at Family Video. And this is not surprising. Well, I had to take a really, really hard test to work. at my first bookstore job, which was this Antiquarian bookshop. It was my first job out of college.

It was, let's be clear, minimum wage, the minimist of wages, and included, like, cleaning things you don't want to have to clean. Like, that was part of my job. But in order to do that, you had to know, like, really in-depth stuff about everything. And that always, like, makes me laugh, that I had to pass a very rigorous test to, like, clean toilets at this bookstore in San Francisco. but family video also has high standards, apparently. So would see if have made it? I don't know. This is here, I think we have our answer.

Who are we to question the integrity of the family video hiring process back in the mid-80s? Wouldn't dream of it. However, is there corruption running amok at the Hawkins family video where Keith? Undoubtedly. Keith is the hiring manager? I mean, Robin was able to swing Keith from. What I would say is maybe a leaning born of not only a commitment to the art of cinema, but also perhaps the existence of this test and this protocol.

He was like, this guy doesn't know anything about movies. He can't work here. Robin swung that around in about 4.5 seconds by saying he's a chick magnet, and there are going to be a lot of hot women in here if you hire him. And Keith said, fuck the test. He didn't say that out loud, but he said it with his actions. Historically bribable. A fun fact that Zoe shared with us about a family video is that the adult room in the back of the store was marketed as, quote, we truly have everything for the whole family.

So great stuff from family video. A chain I know nothing about, but it's great to learn this. Katie, okay, I lied. We're back to theater talk, but this is sanctioned by Mallory Rubin. Katie wrote in to say, in Stranger Things the First Shadow, Teenage Ted Wheeler is portrayed as a hymbo. hot jock with a big dick implied who can play acoustic guitar and is ready and willing to bust out Oklahoma at a moment's notice. Do you guys vibe with this apparently canonical backstory for Ted? Does it add a new angle to the Karen Billy stuff? Maybe he reminded her of a young Ted.

Wow, Ted wishes. My goodness. Oh, man. A couple of things I play here. Number one, I shared with you some like Instagram reels of the cast of Stranger Things for a Shadow so if you don't know anything about the plot you have seen the actor who plays young Ted Wheeler I was really thrown

you were astonished we were also we should say dazzled and amazed when the actor who plays Ted Wheeler showed up at the premiere looking dare I say great sensational this is what the kids call rip it off a fit

like this is charisma to spare a great beard Joe Crest. Yeah. Incredible suit, great beard at the premiere. So all that's to say, this is actually interesting to me, and I will throw it over to you, a big dick implied correspondent Mallory Rubin.

But before I get to that, I want to say in terms of like what's canon and what's non-instradure things and per shadow, we have Intel previously that Karen married Ted Wheeler because he was a lot older than her and had a lot of money. So this completely contradicts what we were previously told in the TV show. So while I do believe that for Shadow, it's definitely canonical and a lot of the stuff about Henry and the upside down and the mind flair and all that sort of stuff that is in the stage show is what they think is true now, they're also playing a little fast and loose with like maybe Joyce and Hopper stuff and maybe Ted and Karen stuff.

So what does this do for you? And would you just prefer to talk about the big dick parenthood? implied part of Katie's email. What does it do for me to know that Ted Wheeler has a big dick parentheses implied? It does everything for me. No, you just said it. That's,

this is because I have no relationship to the show other than this email from Katie and the Instagram you sent me. That's what I was thinking of earlier. It's like there is a gap already in the canonical adherence here. So is it canon? I'm sure it is. Yeah, and I think that's cool.

I think expanding these universes and making all sorts of different touch points to the universe. Canon in some way is like a fun aspect of modern expansion, but it can get naughty. And so there's always, I think, a source of truth inside of the canon that does have the ability to trump other sources of canon. That does not mean that whatever mythology and lore updates are revealed in the stage play will not actually be what we're presented with in season five or the key aspects of shared backstory between Hopper and Joyster. anything else will not be something that we glimpsed in season five. I think it's entirely possible that that's true. But I think that just the Ted Wheeler age slash Big Dick implied gives us enough of a reason to believe already that there's an ability to separate here when necessary. Okay. Our listener Amy sent us a great email just sort of about, and this

ties back into the podcast we did last week, not just about Stranger Things, but also about musical moments. Amy was like, doesn't I feel like music as a defense, music as a gateway, etc. is really having a moment. And she talks about things that we talked about, which was sinners. We mentioned K-pop demon hunters and music protecting the hon moon and all this sort of stuff like that. So like between music, well, we, you know, the Williams' connection to the real world through the clash is in the first five minutes of the up of season five, which has been put online. Like him singing,

should I say or should I go, is the opening of season five. So this idea of music. You just went full Vecna and called her William. Oh, sorry. You went full Vecna. William. I like Maxine.

Michael. One day. So I think it's interesting that it is a theme right now. And that's something I just think to think about. but I love that connection. What a great observation. Yeah. And then Bridget, last and not leave.

I just shook me to my core. We talked about Jansports, Jansport Backpacks. And Bridget let us know. I think I did know this, but I didn't take advantage of it. That Jansport has a lifetime guarantee, so they will fix and repair any backpacks that fall apart. And she said, want some evidence. Just asked my husband who at 40 years old is still rocking the Jansport he had since he was 10.

Damn. Granted, not every day like in middle and high school. but he's gotten it sent back to get it fixed twice over 30 years. So if you have a Jansport kicking around that's like the zipper's fucked up or like the pockets freight or something like that, you can send it back to Jansport. They will sew it up for you and send it back. I'm sad that I don't still have any of my old Jansports. I should say Bridget did send a photo of this. And I want to shout at her husband because not only is it like a classic like forest green.

Oh, I love that. Like original two pocket Jansport. but it has like scrawled on it in like white chalky pencil or whatever some like middle school like his name or like the Stozy S or like whatever just like real old school stuff so I love that he's he's still using it at 40 years old scribble in a backpack scribble on a trap or keeper remember the gel pen era of like drawing on your hands you know who didn't break an arm and have all of their friends sign the cast and then keep the cast after it was removed even though that was not a hygienic thing that you should have done.

You kept the cast for than zero minutes, which is what I shouldn't have done. I kept it like negative because you get it off and you're like, I want to never see this thing again. Yeah, you've been like sticking a ruler in there and like scratch your skin and then they take it off and it's revolting. Frankly, frankly, Mallory, for someone as hygiene obsessed as you are and you were like different times. Yeah, the fact that you kept that thing is astounding to me. I would not, I would not do that today. I assure you. But, you know, seventh grade male.

Just wound after wound A filthy bone After broken bone Really like to hold on to those Those Messages of love and care And inside jokes from my friends I probably still have

I don't have the cast I assure you I do not have the cast I probably still have like some yearbooks somewhere You know Oh I have all my yearbooks But my yearbooks were not Covered in your dead skin cells Yeah

It's different Inside of etc etc Yeah It's not the same Well, I don't have an old chance for. I don't have my old used cast. I'd like to say that just once more. And I don't have my old chance for it.

So that's sad because I can't patch it up. I simply wouldn't keep my old cast. It's just what I have to say. For me. I'd say if it were me, I simply would. Okay. Should we talk for a couple minutes about the season five premiere? The event.

We haven't watched the episode. We've not seen a second. of season five other than the four and a half minutes that everybody else has seen because they released and let's start there. In tandem with the season five premiere event, red carpet photos and interviews galore.

Our Instagram algorithms are both completely calibrated to Changer Things right now. It's astonishing. And in tandem with this, Netflix and Stranger Things released the first five minutes of season five, episode one.

Now, I don't know what your relationship is to, this is like a weird inconsistency that I have, where as you know, I like love nothing more than going frame by frame through a trailer looking for every clue that I can find. I really dislike watching full scenes from something out of the contextual flow of the episode. Even because this is the first five. Yeah, yeah, I was going to say. To me, it's permissible. Like, I used to drive me crazy when I would see, you know, like a two and a half minute clip from Goblet of Fire or something.

something. Right. In the middle of the movie. I don't want to see this. This doesn't feel right. It never feels, right? This is the beginning of the episode. So we got a little glimpse.

Here's my first takeaway. You ready? Yeah. We're going to have to watch season five in very dark rooms. Tough. Very tough. The upside down is dark and we were back there with a little, and we're going to keep this very quick if you don't want to watch full scenes from a

season of the television that are not released yet. That is your prerogative. Hit fast forward a few times. We'll keep this moving. But we're there with little. Little Will, little Season 1 Will, Joe, digitally deaged. Digital-deaged. Castle Buyers in the upside down are hearts.

It's funny. Listen, it's funny. I saw a meme about this before I saw that they had done this, so I was like so confused. But I saw like an Instagram reel where someone was like, oh, what we thought Will was doing in the upside down. It's him just like rocking back and forth and singing in the clash. And it's like what he was actually doing. And it's him like running around shooting the shotgun. and like,

parkoring up a tree. I mean, I'm into it and I'm not at the same time. What happens at the end with, like the Demogorgon dragging will to the library, which is where he is found by Hopper and Joyce in season one. That backpack still dangling, you know,

speaking of, I mean, the Jansport. It's all coming together for us today. That backpack's still dangling there, Joe. You know? It's great stuff. One strap.

Stay true. The Demogorgon dragging will to the library And then Vecna, like, you know, hooking up the tentacle vacuum from suck to blow and, like, you know, putting all the goop down Will's gullet and saying, we're going to do great things together. That's super interesting. I think that's better than Will could scale a tree and jump to another tree, actually. And as far as the digitally de-aging, I've seen a lot of negative response to it. I actually don't think it looks terrible. But perhaps that's because I was watching a very dark.

Yeah. Like, I think on my phone, I didn't like put it on the big screen. I was watching it like on my phone. So perhaps if I see it big, I will have more thoughts about it. But, you know, it's the same technique they used in season four where they put, you know, young Noah Schnaps face on a different kid's sort of body and face. And so some of the proportions are like slightly off. But some of the expressions are very good. And so, you know, I'm of two minds about it, if you will.

It depends how much if this is it. if this is all we're getting of like Young Will and it's just this, which it seems like it is because like that's where Joyce and Hop find him, right? So like, yes. Then that, I think that's fine. If there's, if we're going to spend a lot of time with this, I don't know that I feel as into it. Do you know what I mean?

Yeah. Yeah. I think, I mean, who knows? I guess it's possible given all of our time travel speculation and our knowledge that the upside down is locked in time on the night that Will Byers disappeared, which is so, you know, revealed in the three episodes of season four that we're going to be covering today, you know, it's certainly possible that we could be spending more time, revisiting moments from the past, and in general,

and spend more time with digitally de-aged members of our cast. But I'm with you. This struck me more as a way to, first of all, like we've been talking so much about how excited we are for Will to be really at the fore of events in season five. And so, like, a way to signal that, a way to signal that we will be revisiting events from the past in some capacity, but also like a way to signal, and this has been in the trailers that we've seen too.

Vecna, in the thick of it always, at the heart of things always, the demigorgon kind of like bowing out to usher in his master. Lord Vechna. Yeah. And that connection between we're going to talk a lot in today's pot about the connection between 1 and 11, but this connection between Vecna and Will, like I like giving us that

opening note as like, a promise of what Will's role will be in the season to come and less a like, you know, X percentage of season five will be spent with tiny moving digital faces. But who knows? Will leaping, like wireworking up a tree. Yeah, that jump across the trees was really something. Joanna, here's another question I would like to ask you about the season five premiere event. How are you coping with the knowledge that Barb will be back? Well, what confirmation do we get? Shannon Perth was at the premiere.

I believe she was asked and I believe she said, I wasn't involved. My body was there. I wasn't involved. So which happened in season four as well. There's always been a little barb, like a flashback to the body, a very alarmingly placed photo in a family bathroom, etc. A bit of barb.

Just a bit of bar. Just a bit of barb. A bit of bar. Mostly just, you know, we're near the end of the stranger things experienced only a couple months left. And so how long will we get to engage in our barb a bit? And so it didn't feel like we could miss an opportunity. That's true.

I should say, Shannon purser looked amazing. Her eye makeup was like incredible. We had Shannon. We just don't want to spend more time with Barb. However, if Shannon was lying and we get more like Nancy locked in the mind palace and like Vecna as Barb could be kind of fun. You know what I mean? Like, you know, Vecna is Billy, Vecna's, you know, all this other stuff. So like.

Genuinely great in season four when Vecna's like. Nancy, did you forget? And that's just an edge mixtape of Nancy fucking Steve with dead barb flashing in the middle. And then Vecna's like, when I kill people, I remember. I mean, it's quite a flex. It's very good. It really is. Anything else, Joe, from the premiere, the red carpet, fit watch from anyone on the cast,

anything else that you want to highlight from the overall evening? We already talked about Ted Wheeler. You and I were very intrigued by it. this Jamie Campbell Bauer interview where he was talking about filming Rings of Power but also asked if he was going to be in any other franchise and we both agree that he kind of hedged in a way that made

us wonder if he was in talks to be in a Star Wars property because he hasn't been in Star Wars yet he would fit it like a glove and and he's like why wouldn't he say Star Wars unless he was already in Star Wars is sort of

the idea. I think there's three possibilities and probably a million and others beyond that. Yeah. But I think the three possibilities are, mind goes blank and it's like, I can't think of anything to say. Yeah, yeah.

Option two, there are so many things you could say that then you get anxious about leaving something out. Mm-hmm. You know? And then option three is like, I am currently learning how to bleed a capricle crystal and I can't accidentally slip up and reveal that. You should see me in Imperial boots and John Purs.

I look great, you know, something like that. So, yeah. And then last one at least me, of course, we want to revisit this sort of David Harbor, Millie Bobby Brown. Yes. Situation that we touched upon last week. And since us introducing this information that Millie Bobby Brown had allegedly, but now confirmed by Sean Levy, he sort of like filed a complaint against David Harbor.

First of all, we saw Millie Bobby Brown and David Harbor being very, I would say, slightly performatively convivial on the red carpet. It would certainly not surprise me if someone was like, you two need to be very chummy with each other on the red carpet since this information came out. Regardless, that's rank speculation, and that ranking speculation feeds into what Sean Levy said, which is like, yes, this happened, that is accurate. A lot of the speculation on the internet is wildly out of control and disproportionate to what actually happened. So both the Duffers and Sean Levy sort of commented on wanting to ensure that everyone feels comfortable.

So, like, we do know that it happened. We got that confirmation. how Millie Bobby Brown and David Harbour still feel about each other, we don't know. But we did see them be very chummy in the red carpet. But again, they are actors. So, like, I don't know. I don't know what more information we're going to get about this, but we thought we should circle back around to it. Absolutely.

Here are some of the quotes from the Duffers and from Sean Levy to the Hollywood Reporter on the red carpet on the night of the premiere. Ross Duffer to the Hollywood reporter. Quote, obviously you understand I can't get into personal inset matters, but I will say we've been doing this for 10 years with this cast, and at this point, their family, and we deeply about them. We deeply care about them.

So, you know, nothing matters more than just having a set where everyone feels safe and happy. And then the Sean Levy quote to THR, I've read a bunch of stories, and they range from wildly inaccurate too, and then it's dot, dot, dot. There's an ellipsies in the article here in the quote. There's so much noise around it,

but the truth is that we view this crew and this cast as family, and so we treat each other with respect, and that's always been the bedrock. So those are the quotes that we got, and yeah, we'll see what else we guess from here. The way that Chon Levy said, like, we did everything to build up.

Like, like, it very much, the beginning of his quote, very much to me, because I watched that clip, was like, yeah, this did happen. We're not saying it didn't happen. but some of the like stories that people have invented around why it happened or the extent of it or all that sort of stuff feels, you know, inaccurate.

So that's that's further reportage of this event. If we learn more, we will let you know. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Okay, Joe, that's a little bit of season five talk at the top. We are going to talk about season five a little bit at the end of the podcast today, but we are now going to talk about season four. Episode 7, 8, and 9.

Just a quick refresh, in case anybody is listening to Part 2, but didn't listen to Part 1, or just to remind everybody, this season originally dropped in the two volumes. So the second volume dropped in July of 2022, but we're also talking about episode 7, which was in the May 2022 volume 1 drop. So the episodes in question that we're talking about today are mega episodes. Seven and nine are movie length. Nine is two and a half hours. and all told these three episodes

in terms of runtime basically net out to like close to the length of a normal stranger thing season so it's only three episodes but there's a lot of story inside of these three episodes

I think all three of these episodes are really good I think episode seven and nine episodes episode seven is the masker at Hawkins Lab episode nine is the piggyback all three of these

are written and directed by the Duffer Brothers I think seven and nine are two of the best the entire series, really, really, like, lore-rich in a way that I appreciate and enjoy, but also just full of, like, great character moments

and I think structurally, in terms of that entwinement of the cast and this idea that even though our characters are spread across the globe, the party is always intact if they choose to fight together. And also the, like, very nemic-esque idea voiced by Robin.

I had a real... Try. Yeah, try, try. Like, someone's got to try right. I had a real time-try. travel of my own. When I got to that Robin line, I think we're full as a lot of us. And I remember he's saying

when we covered it the first time, like, Robin is basically like my queen and my, my legend, but like, would anyone say that sentence that way? I just flashed back to it so vividly. And I bumped again watching it this time. I was like, who talks like that? Not even theater kids talk like that. So that's

okay. I am like a little less high on these episodes than you are. I still think they're phenomenal and they include some of the best stuff. That's interesting. things has ever done. That is absolutely true. I do still feel like, and I was watching a Duffer Brothers interview this morning where they were talking about how it was not their original intention to have supersized episodes that they originally thought these were going to be normal-length episodes. And part of it was in the edit, and part of it was them feeling like people were so frustrated

about how long they had to wait that they might as well give them like something very, like, massive to say, like, sorry, you had to wait three years for this, but it's like, it's like, getting two seasons at once. So that's interesting. I still do feel like some of it's indulgent, and I do still feel like, I like the concept that you're outlining. I really do of like, let's all do our, what can we do from a pizza freezer in the middle of the country, from all the way from Russia?

What little step forward can we do Nemek style to move the baton on this process? And that is interesting to me. At the end of the day, though, I will say. the Russia stuff still feels like very padded and very inconsequential which is like so sad for characters I just wish better

for Joyce this season when Hop and 11 are reunited that's like tremendously good stuff so like some of the Russian stuff just really feels drawn out in a way that feels a little unfortunate to me and I would say that's true

like a little bit here and there so I can't agree that these are like the highs versus something like Dear Billy, I think, is, or even like the die we really, really loved. So like, but the highs are really high in these episodes, absolutely. Yeah.

Holly Trauma Tracker, it's less robust than it was in season four part one. And yet, the trauma still, it builds. Yeah. It mounts and amasses. The, your mid bunny on your life rate and it's ripped away. You've worked so hard. You've worked so hard on it. Ripped away.

Yeah. And it's not like, let me just use a corner. of this and then we'll give you your creation back. Arrised. Like an edge sketch. Yeah, exactly. You know, the entire earthquake sequence, the four murder gates, the ruptures spreading through Hawkins, like so many red vines meeting in the middle to destroy this city.

Not a red vine like a candy. No. The red vines of the upside down. Not like a twizzler. Melting one dimension into another. And, you know, a lot of people are going through it. But we do get, like, a real lingering shot of poor little Holly just screaming in terror as Hawkins crumbles. A lot of people are going through it.

And in the case of Jason, the rift is literally going through him. You know what I mean? Listen, I always, like, feel that I should reflect for a moment and look inward when my response to a character death is to laugh. But whenever I see that caught Jason right enough, especially because, he does still get a moment to scream. Yeah. You know, and I can't remember the subtitling. It either says like in agony or an anguish or something, but that fucker deserved it.

And he got it, man. Boy, did he get it. And then listen, does everybody briefly think that it's snowing? I was hoping you would have this on your list. I agree. It does. But Holly's really like, oh, great. Is the world ending?

Yeah, but am I going to get to make a snowman? No, Holly, you're not. It's the red lightning storm tornadoes. swirl ash that's going to lead to the desiccated flower crunch and withering grass of your dying town is another dimension encroaches inch by inch. So it's not snow. Don't play in it. Is that ash or is that snow took you right back to the end of Game of Thrones? I know. I know. It's like not only trauma for Holly, but also for us. And answer we still do not have to this day because the creators don't agree whether it's

ash or snow in Kings Landing. Great stuff. Okay. Great stuff. Joe, before we get to our stranger superlatives, yeah. Let's continue our recent tradition from the last couple of Stranger Things pause,

which is talking about a moment from this stretch of episodes that feels to each of us most emblematic of what Stranger Things is, can be, does well. What are you going with here? I was as shocked as anyone

that my clip comes from nobody's, favorite character, Dr. Brenner. Carlos, we please play this clip. You speak of monsters, superheroes.

That's the stuff of myth and fairy tales. Reality, truth, is rarely so simple. People are not so easily defined. Only by facing all of ourselves the good

and the bad, can we become whole? What if I don't want to become home? Okay, yeah. So Dr. Brenner, do we want to take all of our life lessons for Dr. Brenner? No, I don't think so. But I think in a season, I think this is so key.

And it will tie into I know which moment you've picked. And so I think this will feed, like, nicely into what you've picked here. But, like, I think this is so core to what Stringer Things does and what is going to come forward. This idea of, like, if we think about a character like Billy or even our recently bisected Jason. Because, like, when Jason is fighting with Lucas, and he says, if Chrissy was scared, she would have come to me. There is something so human and vulnerable inside of that that I think Stranger Things is interested in exploring. That 11's quest this season is, I came here to understand who I was to see if I was the monster. And then she decides that she's like, no, you are the monster, Papa.

Like, you know, and he's like, you got to understand. She's like, goodbye, Papa. fuck you. I, you, you, uh, you're the worst. But then Vecna says, yeah, he was no monster. He was just a man, an ordinary, mediocre man. And then he says, you have freed me. And I, I love that moment. You know, 11 is sort of tentacled up against the, the Creole house door. And Vecna is stroking her face with the back of his, like, human hand because he's got the, like, creepy talent hand. And then he's got the hand that is like the most human part, other than his eyes, like the most human part of him, like the palm of his hand, other than his like grimy long fingernails, but the palm of his hand looks so human as it's sort of like stroking along our face. And I thought that was really intentional. This like the most human part of him is touching her in that moment. And I just think this idea of like 11 having to this idea of shame, which we've been talking about a lot this season. This idea of like, you know, Mike saying in his love confession, I love you in your good days or your bad days with powers without.

I love you for who you are. And Max saying, I know you can read my thoughts, even the worst ones, mostly the worst ones. This idea of like reconciling yourself to the part of yourself that you consider monstrous or you're worried other people will consider monstrous. And this is something we're thinking about a lot. We think about like maybe the shame that Will and Robin is like our queer characters are carrying around with. them or all, you know, which we feel they shouldn't be, but they feel they need to and like all this sort of stuff like that. So I think this idea of like, it's important that 11 sources her power from love versus the hate that she's instructed to use from Vecna, but also does she need

to become that whole that Brenner is talking about and have source from all of it? That there's a part of me that says, well, sources from love versus anger is. better for you. But do you want to deny the anger that is inside of you? You can't. You need to hold your entire self as you go forward, which I suspect is something that we will be dealing within season five. So that was sort of, these are just sort of like really interesting. You know, we talk a lot about like be who you are, be authentically yourself, which is what you're going to talk about next. And I don't want to tread on that. But like, even if that, that is not just like what society says is like geeky and weird and whatever, but like is actively

like resentful, jealous, like, you know, nasty, all these things that are just part of being a complete human being, which I think is really interesting to think about. I love this pick. I am thinking once again of a meme, you know, the worst person you know who just made a good point. Oh, yeah. You know, I mean, is Brenner in this entire stretch trying actively to manipulate 11? Yeah, but does that mean there's no truth in what he's saying? No.

And I think that's a really important thing to highlight and think about. It reminds me, too, of, like, you just mentioned Thrones a few minutes ago. Like, this is very Stannis-Davos rotten onion to me as well, right? Like, you know, Stanis is a character who's so rigid in his sense of, um, right and wrong and honor and judgment. Do you do you do itty? Go on. If there's any rot in the onion, the whole onion's bad.

And we look at Davos or any person in the world who's like trying to acknowledge the totality of who they are of themselves and still like make it a positive impact or seek to improve or channel something inside of them and say, well, that's what it means to be human. So I think this is a fantastic pick. what a great pick and what a perfect one here at the end of season four to like be thinking about heading into season five. I think that's fantastic. Oh, Papa. Just tough end for that guy. Yeah. Goodbye, Papa. Bye-bye.

Just really love when 11 just puts his hand down and doesn't give him what he wants. Yeah. Great shit. I will once again for the second pot in a row be talking about Eddie and Dustin here with a little sprinkling of Uncle Wayne. Carlos, clip us. I have to look after those little sheep from you, okay? No, you're going to do that yourself. Nah, man.

Say I'm going to look after them. Say it. I'm going to look after. I wish everyone had gotten to know him, really know him, because they would have loved him. Mr. Munson. They would have loved him. Oh, boy.

Okay. Sad. Sad, sad, sad. He's going to graduate, Molly. It's his year. It's his year, Joe. Okay, so this could go in, like, a number of our categories today, but that's also, I think, part of what tends to guide us toward the most emblematic selection.

Just this, you know, surprise of newfound friendship. There's the moment earlier before that when Eddie says in episode eight to Dustin, like, never changed Justin Henderson, promised me, and Dustin says I wasn't planning on it. put so much of the story and the paths for everyone to that point is like what forces around you make you feel like you have to to what you were just saying, right? So these are very connected, as are all of the moments that feel like so central to any individual character, but also what brings these people together. And the way that these friendships and these relationships like help change you and make you want to be a better person, like, you know, it does,

You noted the breadcrumbs are loaves, baguettes. But, you know, the payoff here of Eddie saying, like, I didn't run this time right. And Dustin's saying, no, no, no, you didn't run. It's like because he had a reason not to. You know, he had people who he wanted to, like, dig his heels in and stand and fight for and buy more time for. And, you know, being able to, like, find joy in the despair because you have people who, who you love and who love you too. The,

in my year, I'm going to graduate moment. When they say, I love you, man, I love you too. And they just like, Dustin can barely choke out the words.

It's just one of the most heart-wrenching moments. And what is often quite an emotionally intense and sad and moving show. And I love both of these moments, the Dustin, any moment, and then Dustin, listen,

admittedly, in the interest of candor, a little late, like a couple days late. But seeing Uncle Wayne, Oh, maybe he should have paid him a visit before. Yeah. You know, there's a lot going on.

Something I think about. But the way that this relationship between Dustin and Eddie in that scene and then this moment between Dustin and Uncle Wayne at the shelter after the events just centers this idea of like embracing who you are, right? And surrounding yourself with other people who will embrace who you are as well. So Uncle Wayne is there taking down these posters because he doesn't know for sure. sure what has happened to Eddie. There's a wall where people put images of them missing. Their family members are friends who they're seeking to find. And people are defiling these pictures of Eddie. They're defacing them. And he goes and he's just putting them up. How many times must he have done this already? How many times would he keep having to do it? Because everybody in the town

thinks that Eddie is guilty. The news broadcaster is still blaming Eddie. Right. And Uncle Wayne has not given up because he knows that's not who this person is. And so he is subjecting himself to the ostracation and the shame of going in and doing that. And Dustin could so easily choose to, like, distance himself from that association. But that's not who these characters are. Right? And, like, that's so important to remind people and to show people. So he goes over to him and he says something to him. And he gives him Eddie's guitar pick. And he tells him that he was with Eddie at the end. And then they sit together in plain sight of anybody who, who would choose to look and observe.

And he says he fought and died to protect this town, this town that hated him. He isn't just innocent Mr. Munson. He's a hero. And you're like waiting programmed by stranger things to hear, you know, we could be heroes kicked back in for like the umpteenth time. But is the entire town thinking, Eddie, is a satanic panic channeler of Satan who opened a portal to another world and killed all of these teens. A very heightened and extreme version of that. Yeah. But are all of these characters who are precious to us in some way held in some sort of

ridicule or low esteem by somebody in this town at some point? And do they do everything they can anyway to protect the people they love in this place they call home? Like they do. And there's a real lesson in that. So yeah, I just, you know, I think I'm like, oh my God, we just don't have that many chances to talk about Eddie and Dustin is my favorite. So how could I not pick them? But it's a great pick. That connection.

It's a perfect pick. And I have this in... as like one of my runners up in coming of age, but I'm so happy to talk about it here. The way in which Dustin, this is like such a moment for Dustin to, I think, understand the way in which the world,

the entire world can be wrong about something that you know to be true. You know, and there are ways in which they knew that about, like, they know about the fantastical in a way that other people in Hawkinson and stuff like that. There are things they know.

But this idea that, like, the news could be saying that Eddie's a villain and Dustin knowing he's a hero and just having to reconcile the fact that, like, there are truths in these worlds or there are things that people will tell you in this world that are just wrong by institutions, by the news, you know, I mean, Ted Wheeler's like, you know better than the tabloids, but, you know. But one thing he says to Eddie's uncle that I think is so beautiful. And here is he says, he never stopped being Eddie, right? And I love that because

Eddie is so convinced that he has changed dramatically at the end, right? He's like, I didn't run this time. The entire bakery is here to support him. All of the baguettes are here. All the breadcrumbs have led us to this moment of like, I did something different this time. But Dustin's point is like, this is who he always was. He was always this. Maybe not in a literal like running into the cyclone of demobats, etc., etc. But in a sort of like, I will put myself on the line to protect vulnerable people is something that Eddie was always doing as just like leading. of the nerds in high school. So I just really love that idea that, like, Eddie thought he had making this big transformation

in a way he hadn't, but in a way, you know, he hadn't. I just said, hadn't twice. Anyway, in a way he hadn't. And in a way he hadn't. I was really beautiful. I love that. Eddie. Something I thought, something I thought was really interesting in that, as I mentioned last

week, something in Netflix is doing his promo is, like, they put out these videos of the cast rewatching the seasons or, you know, certain scenes or whatever. and a couple things are very evident from the rewatch of season four. And one of them is that they had like every single actor talked about working with Joe Quinn, not every single actor, but everyone who got to work with him talked about Joe Quinn and what unusual energy he brought and what an amazing addition he was and all sorts of stuff like that.

It was just like, they're like, we don't have Joe Quinn here to talk about Eddie, but we're going to have everyone else talk about what impact Eddie made. And the Duffer brothers have talked in several interviews about how they're like, yeah, we're kind of bummed. We killed off Eddie. We would love to have him for season five. But he's not going to be in season five, so that's where we are.

So they say. I believe them. I don't think they would say it as firmly as that. I think they're trying to like tamp down the expectation. You know what I mean? Because everyone like works themselves into a lather expecting the reanimated corpse of or the vampire version of Eddie Munson. Then like they're going to be disappointed not to see him. So they want to be like, he's not here.

Go about your business. Hope can spring eternal though if you wanted to. I can. Okay. And it does. No, I'm not expecting it. I'm not expecting it. If it happens, what a thrill

that will be. Hold it loose. But I don't know. I mean, when 11 brings back to life, I'm like, this is amazing. And also this is a slippery slope, folks. I know. Upside down CPR.

It's a whole thing. Void CPR. Yeah. Should we get to our Stranger Superlatives? Let's do it. This episode is brought to you by Target. Listen up, Explorer. Stranger Things has returned to Target and the upside down.

is calling. Don't miss your chance to grab some epic exclusives like an AirPods case shaped like a mixtape cassette, the totally tasty Doritos, Stranger Pizza and Cool Ranch Chips, and the Demogorgian Crunch cereal. New items are dropping all season long, so prepare for one last adventure at Target. First up today, normally we've been starting with Best New Edition, but we're in the middle of a season, so we talked about Eddie last time it's the best new edition for season four and some of the runners up for that category. This time we are starting with most important relationship. I think we both knew that we would have the same pick for this. This is something that means a lot to both of us and that we talked about a lot when we had the

pleasure of covering it in real time. We have not colluded on any other category, but this is one where we knew we had the same one, so we decided to split our focus on the clip front. So is it okay to talk about mine first because it chronologically comes first? Okay, Carlos clip us, please. These past few months, she's been so lost without you. It's just she's so different from other people. And when you're different, sometimes you feel like a mistake. But you make her feel like she's not a mistake at all.

Like she's better for being different. And what follows that is the most devastating, like, silent cry out the window that anyone has ever had, Noah Schnab. just like breaks our hearts. So if you're just listening to that, you're just hearing Will talk. But what is key to watching that is that Jonathan is noticing, will have this conversation with Mike in the back of the van. And Jonathan is paying attention and it will lead into, you know,

the clip that Mallory has for us that we'll get to next. But something I want to say about this is like, no, the relationship on display here is not Mike and Will because Mike for most of this season and most of his life. And I will say it was very gratifying, honestly. To watch the cast, watch the season, and watch Finn Wolfhard just like talk shit on Mike Wheeler, made me feel less insane.

I was like, Finn agrees with me. Mike Wheeler, what the hell? Mike completely oblivious to the fact that Will is talking about himself here. When he talks about 11 feeling different and needing Mike in that way that Mike makes 11 feel like she's not a mistake at all, like she's better for being different, all this or stuff like that, it is so clear that Will is talking about himself.

Mike is oblivious as hell. about this. So, like, how lonely to be in front of the person who matters the most to you, A, your best friend, but be the person that will obviously, like, has a crush on, like, the object of his affection and having to pretend, mask your own feelings behind the only way you can talk about how you truly feel for this person is to hide it in this, like, heterospace of, this is how your girlfriend feels, even though, you know, it is how his girlfriend feels. Yeah, sure. Mike is oblivious.

Jonathan noticed. Jonathan Coxed in the rear view, and it leads into this other scene. Something I learned while watching the cast watch season four is the scene that we're about to talk about. Your scene was not originally in the show and that they added it. And that's astonishing to me. I can't believe that. Like, that is absolutely astonishing to me. But let's go to your scene.

Because you're my brother. And I love me. And there is nothing in this world, okay? Absolutely nothing that will ever change that. You got that? Yeah. And I'm always here for you too. I know.

I would have cried. I can't see that. It's like our first category. I know. That one is instant, like instant tears for me. I think that's one of the most beautiful scenes in the show over four seasons without question. And, you know, those. I knew we would both have Will and Jonathan here.

Those scenes are both so important for Will, and of course are so deeply rooted in Will's sexuality and Will feeling his way through this phase of his life and when will people see him clearly, when will he be able to say this thing, and the fact that his brother sees and understands who he is and what he needs. It takes us right back to who they have always been for each other,

which the show stopped positioning at the center. at a certain point. Like, you can't think about, I can't think about season one and two of Stranger Things without thinking about Will and Jonathan and what that relationship meant and what a heartbeat it was. And so for a show that is about coming of age

and identity and who am I and who knows that and who embraces that to take a relationship that has been present for their entire lives, but really focus on where Will is right now and what Jonathan can be for him, is like an absolutely perfect thing for Will and a real return to form for Jonathan

who has been, as he admits, wavering a little bit in his focus and attention because he's got his own shit that he's dealing with as he says. But, you know, Jonathan starts that surfer boy conversation by saying, like, I feel you, I feel like he used to come to me more for help or just to talk, you know, it feels like you don't do that anymore. Not like before a lot of that is a problem.

probably my fault. And I really love that part of it, too, because, like, there's a version of it where Jonathan, the older brother, the friend, whomever, does just say, like, why don't you tell me what's going on with you? And it's like the answer is because sometimes it's really fucking scary and hard to tell somebody what you're going through. And so it's so important that Jonathan says to Will, like, you never have to doubt how I will feel about you no matter what, this anything, but also I need to do a better job of like reminding you that and making you feel that that's true. And to the difference this point, like I think obviously this also could have been the pick for most emblematic scene because like to what you were saying a couple minutes ago about

this idea and in the quote in the clip you picked in that conversation in the van, like do others make you feel bad or wrong for being different? Like Henry, right? Try to weaponize that in some way, use it as a way to cast you aside and set you apart? Or do they make you feel safe? Do they make you feel understood? Do they embrace in full every aspect of who you are? Like that is just completely at the heart of the show, whether it's like in season one, the first moment with like that when we see the way

that Jonathan introduced the clash into Will's life. And like when they were talking about Lonnie and Lonnie trying to make Will be interested in things that he didn't care about or like in season two in the spy shack when you know Jonathan is like Castle Byers like we did that we stayed up all night and we made this place

that for you was going to be a source of safety of refuge, a place you felt like would always be there and stand until Will got to the point where everything around him made he feel like he had to turn that down. How devastating is that? And of course like also in season two just those conversations that they had about like well, you're my best friend, but also like,

don't let the world make you feel like you need to be like everybody else. That's so core to the show. You'd rather be Bowyer, Kenny Rogers, right? Like, I'd rather be friends with Zombie Boy. Like, he's not talking, like, he is not at that point, I think. Though perhaps he has, because there are mentions from season one about Will's clearness. So, like, perhaps he has.

But in that moment, he's talking about the differences that Zombie Boy, like, why Will is different and why that makes him better. So he's doing exactly what Will is talking about in the van. to Mike. Jonathan has always been doing that for Will. This is a, this is, um,

my Jonathan stock has like really gone up on this rewatch. Um, you and I had this conversation where I was like, Jonathan, I don't really care. And then rewatching this, uh, leading up to this.

And like, Jonathan actually, I'm quite invested. I'm not invested in Jonathan and Nancy. But I'm very invested in Jonathan and, and Will. Yes. And I like,

you know, he was just in the Nancy verse in season three. Yeah. So putting him back together, putting him in the, like sort of the babysitter, Steve-esque babysitter role the season, though really he was being babysat because he was like stone for a lot of it. But like was so smart. And just that moment of him like silently, not saying anything in a moment, just silently clocking in the rearview mirror

what his brother's going to do. And then taking this moment to have this conversation with him is just like so absolutely stunning. It's just really, really good. And, you know, just I. Charlie is great-knit, Noah's great-in-it. It's just an incredible scene. The best. Should we keep the waterworks going for a minute here? For Most-emotional moment. Most emotional moment.

Do you have any runners-up for most important relationship? I just have one tiny thing I want to ping. Tell me. Which is we rightly so are going to have and we'll talk a lot about Dustin and Eddie this season. Yeah. But it matters a lot to me that Steve could hear Dustin from across worlds. It's incredible. It's incredible.

That matters a lot to me. It's the absolute best. The Steve, Eddie, Dustin, just coalescence there, which I suspect we'll come up more today is really amazing. It's already come up a little bit because your most emblematic pick was about Papa and L, but of course that connects also to one and their shared history. And so, you know, I'll have some more on them in other categories. is that, but. Yeah, Henry and 11.

One hell. Yeah, it's pretty important. I agree. Pretty core to what's going on here. Most emotional moment. What do you have here, Joe? Due to the choice to play so much music behind this moment, I could not clip much of it, but Carlos got me a few seconds of my most emotional moment.

That is also my pick. That's it. That's all we can do. I talked about this so much when we covered season four the first time. But this is, I think to this day, despite everything we've gone through in this, we've watched, this is my, like, the most strange of things has ever made me feel. Yeah. Is Caleb McLaughlin in this scene, all of them.

Sadie's really good, too. Millie is really good when they, like, flash between this. This is Max dying. Lucas. trying to have her hold on and then we flash to the void where 11 is also experiencing them together and then Erica like comes up so um couple things first of all Caleb uh was asked to improvise this so all of this stuff that he says here is amazing is improvisation right um and both sadie and Caleb have talked about how like hard this was for them how they were actually

crying like weeping on set because they've known each other for so long they're both incredibly great actors, and this is just really, really painful and hard. How even harder it was to recreate that emotion a week later when they had to do it again to do the void version of it. Caleb was like, how can I get back to that place? But it's not just the delivery of Erica Help, which is heartrending to me. Shattering. But it's, he's the older brother, and he's asking his little sister for help.

Erica's quite competent. seen her escape the jock bullies. Like, you know, it's not like she's not helpful, but, you know, they had this, like, beautiful moment earlier when they were getting ready for battle and she was making fun of him. And he's like, but you come to all my basketball games. I love that so much. You know?

You're still my brother. Just the facts. Yeah. So, like, Erica. Help. Yeah. Just absolutely devastates me every time. So, yeah, that's easily.

our shared pick, yeah, absolutely. I mean, unbearably sad and intense and just incredibly good and well-conceived and well-performed. I think once again, as was the case in season four, part one, all of the Lucas and Max stuff is just sensationally good in these episodes.

I love, you know, in the build-up to this devastating moment, I love, in general, everything that transpires in the stolen, RV is like real heart-to-heart stuff, you know, well, I'll be coming back to the Nancy and Steve of it all. But when Lucas and Max are talking and, you know, Max is basically saying to him like, well, it's my mind. I control it. But also, like, I can embrace the power of the happy memories, the tether of these connections.

I can counter, you know, I have my patroness and I can counter the dementer. And I love when Lucas asks if she has a memory in mind and, you know, the coy smile. And like, it was the time when I was happy. Was I there? I mean, just what a lovely way. And of course, we are going to get this incredible snowball sequence in the Mind Palace piggyback stretch of the climactic showdown. But like sharing that dance with Lucas and that kiss with Lucas is like Max's tether to life. That's just, you know, that is the, that is where we are heading into.

Lucas cradling Max and fearing that he's going to lose her. And also from the Mac side of it, like the way that she's screaming, I don't want to die. I'm not ready because we've also had this. You know, when it starts as Max basically in episode nine trying to appeal to Vecna, right? Because they've got their phased plan and that's the step they're on. But also it turns into, much like Dear Billy was, it turns into like a confession. And when Max says the day that he died, I think that's why I just stood there watch,

not because I was scared weak, but because I didn't know if he deserved to be saved, and I've tried to forgive myself. I've tried, but I can't. I can't. And even though we shift into Vecna Lucas and Vecna using Lucas as a way to torment Max,

there's the part of you watching that for the first time where you're like, Max is saying this because Max is carrying this and Lucas is hearing it, and then of course you're going to cut and it's Max is in the trance, and you're like, well, when did that switch happen? Yeah, how much did Lucas hear? Yeah. all of those emotions are there.

And, like, you have this deep intensity of revealing the most vulnerable aspect of what you're carrying with you. And also the charm of one of my favorite things about this, about episode nine is that they're writing notes to each other. Movie Friday? Dude, like, high, high with a smiley, the movie Friday, the drawing. The Duffer's using the drawing of Max and Lucas at the movie theater to announce that they're going to put the season five in L.A.m.

movie theaters is like so good. Diabolical work. It is. Diabolical work. Which is the idea, like what they're there to do and what they're facing, the idea that there could be a movie, that there could be a Friday, you know, that there could be a thing to look forward to and that they would want to share it with each other if they made it there.

I cannot express to you how much more I care about them going to a movie together on Friday than I do about Joyce and Hopper eating at Enzo's, like, no offense. But like, I don't get to go to a movie. in season five, Max never wakes up and they don't get to go to a movie, I will be, it will be tough for me. But I feel like they have to. They must. They must go to a movie together because I feel like Max must wake up.

You know I'm also very deeply invested in what comes after dessert, though, for. I know you are. And I support that. I support you in that. Something that the Duffers said sort of in one of their post-episode interviews, I think there was the one with the Felicia Day for Netflix was that they had planned to kill Max, that that was their original plan. And, you know, they sort of like pulled that punch a little bit.

And, you know, I have some feelings about that. Like, Eddie's death is devastating, but there was so much teasing of, like, who's going to die. Like, inside the episode, who's going to die, Elle, cut to the Winnebago and all of our favorites are there. And we're like, you and I, like, because there was a gap between seasons, we were part of theory fever, and it was like, is Steve going to be okay? Is Dustin going to be okay? You know, like, is Max going to be okay?

And so, like, am I really happy that Max is here? Am I happy that she's not just going to be in a coma because the deafers have confirmed that, like, they're like, we don't have Tony nominee, Sadie Sink in our final season, and she's just going to lay there, I promise you. So whether or not that means her waking up

or her being inside of like a, you know, a dream space for a lot of the season or whatever it is, we are going to get to see Sadie Sink perform. so I would never take that away from myself. But there is a part of me that's like, should they have killed Max? I don't want them to have, but like they were really sort of making us believe

that they were going to take a core character. Eddie matters a lot, but he's like a Bob. Like he's just like a... Yeah, sure. He's like at Alexi. We just met him this season and he's gone. So I don't know how I feel. Like, what if all of our favorites are fine

at the end of the day in season five? Maybe everything sucks so much right now in the real world and that's just fine. Maybe it's fine that everyone's just alive and fine. Yeah, I'm a little torn on the show. I'm thrilled Max is alive and we'll be in season five, but in general in terms of like death toll speculation. Like, we've talked about this with a million times over the years with Thrones,

with Infinity War or other things. I'm never like firmly in the only way for stories to feel like they have stakes is for people to die. I can't, but we mourned Hopper and then, We didn't. We thought Max had died and then we did. And I think that... Thought 11 had died if she had.

Yeah. And like I think that especially the way that the sequence of what is happening with L and Max and the winding back of time. And of course, that's the connection to what we, you know, we witnessed through Nancy's vision with young Henry turning back to the clock. But like, you know, L being able to like revive the dead is a no joke thing to introduce to your story. And I'm, I wonder if there will be a difference ultimately between what. what felt like it was like, this is the right moment to do it before the story's over

versus what we will do here at the end of all things. I don't think that all of these characters can make it out, but also I love them. So fiercely that I don't want to say goodbye. It's funny, like,

we've both watched season four so many times now. When Steve is basically like, in the RV, here's my vision of the future. Yeah. Until the day I die, no matter how many times

I have seen this season of TV. And I know that Steve Harrington is not dead at the end of this season. I will believe when I watch that seen that he is about to die. Yeah. You're like, don't say it. You're dooming yourself, man.

Why would you say it? Oh, man. The only thing I want to add to this most, I mean, I have some runners up, but I feel like we're going to talk about them elsewhere. The only thing I would add to this is when 11 shows up at the hospital and the, I'm sorry she gives to Lucas and the hug that they share. Just like, really great. He doesn't know she was there.

And like, you know, there's that moment where it's like, her heart stopped for a minute and she came back. No one knows why. Mike and Will are looking at a lot. We know why. But, like, Lucas doesn't know. And Lucas doesn't know she was there, but she was there in that moment and saw Lucas at his, like, most rock bottom devastated and, you know, couldn't fully help, but helped a

little. But she has seen that. So they, Lucas and 11, especially, like, you know, when we think about where they were in season one, like, Lucas 11 have never been, like, close to each other. but that hug, it feels so earned because of like what she bore witness do. I love that. My, I think anything that I would actually

have as like a formal runner-up for most emotional moment will definitely be things we already have talked about or will talk about in other categories. I'll give a couple quick ones that I just don't think are likely to come up elsewhere that I wanted to just very briefly hit. It really shakes me to my core when Hop asked Joyce if anyone came to his funeral,

just the way he says anybody, show. It just like really shreds me. And the way he says, like, I always thought it'd be more popular than I was dead. Yeah. It's like really fucking sad. You know, you mentioned how lovely it is when Hop and L reunite. And I'm always just really like weeping like a baby when they're rubbing each other's heads. And he says, I stole your luck kid. And then you know what kind of surprises me by how emotional it makes me is when Hopsy's Mike and just the way that he says he just kind of nods and he says you've grown like I just think that's such a beautiful two-word way to sum up the passage

of time in a coming of age story it really gets me there's a lot of great reunion stuff the like I don't want to step on anything you might have coming up but like I'll just I'll just dial into what you like I kept it open I kept the door up in three inches I never stopped leaving yeah from 11 is huge and then also 11 enjoy seeing each other means a lot to me. So, yeah, a lot of great. They staggered all of the reunions here in the final episode where they're like, first the pizza van shows up

and then the black car shows up and Argyll's in the woods looking at mushrooms. But yeah, it's very good. Elle is very gracious with Joyce there. She's like, I'm glad you went to your work conference. I would have been like, you couldn't have told me? But that was maybe alive. So it goes.

Funniest moment. I have a clip for this. Let's see it. A walk at 9 p.m. To the lake. We're going to take a little swim, little night swim. Sorry, a little night swim gets me every time. Everything in that scene is good.

I think we'll come back to that scene. You and I a little later. It's a walk. But little night swim in the falsetto. It just, like, cracks me up every time. Incredible pick. I do have a lot of writers that piece. Me too.

Yeah, this is a fun rapid fire writer's up category for sure. All right, I have a clip for this one as well. Actually, from a similar-ish stretch of the story, but not the thing that we will both inevitably be coming back to another category, which I think is actually the lock of the pod. But Carlos, can we see my clip? So if the Demogorgon was just his foot soldier, that this five-star general. A five-star general with the power. were to open gates.

Holy shit. Holy shit. That was incomprehensible. We lost me at Mothergate. Please be kind. Rewind. Be kind. Holy shit.

That was in conference. That was in Comprehensible. That was in Comprehensible. That was in Comprehensible kills me every time. That is like a really long sequence where Dustin is like piecing together what is happening. And they're just the rapes. They're riveted. They're traitors.

Oh my God. And I love that like Dustin and, Lucas are in this mind meld, and Erica is like, what? What are you guys talking about? Like, no one can follow this, which is like a kind of fun meta moment. But I just think that the deployment of Erica continues to be expert. She's such a spark in the show. And I think she is obviously like her comedy.

Like, she's comedic gold. But she's also, she's so great in these scenes as a logician. And, like, knows when to ask a question or pull people back. And, like, as you noted with the, you know, the conversation that Erica and Lucas have about the basketball game, like, she's a part of these heart-forward conversations and moments as well. So I just love Erica. And, like, that delivery of, holy shit, that was in God, Franceswell, just really makes me laugh. That's just so good. Erica's saying crit hit when she kicks one of the jocks in the nuts, yes, is really good.

Lady Applejack is the absolute best. That's a great one. Hit me with some of your smuggles here, your runners-up. I just want to say really quickly, I have lived my life long enough that I am no longer surprised by how old the stranger things kids look. But Priya, who plays Erica at the premiere looking like a grown-up adult lady, was really tough for me. Really tough. Okay. Robin's saying Great More Running.

Really good. Incredible. Yeah. I love the gentleness of... Is that good? Is that good? Steve saying Jesus Christ, this kid has got to get his ego in check, and Eddie saying, it's his tone, right?

Callahan saying she was, like, kind of mean about Max. I think is very good. Oh, I'm just starting this sucker. Harrington's got her, don't you big boy. Don't you big boy? Very good. A Joe Quinn improv. Don't you big boy?

Fun fact. Is this legal? Actually, I think it's a felony Nancy to Max when she's sawing off her shotgun. I have some more about it. I want to hear some of yours before I like run through all of my. I love the when they open the shoebox in Nancy's room

and he's like, those aren't guns. And it's just Robin's response to that is so good. I like when they realize when Dustin and Lucas and Erica I realized that the older kids did in fact go through Watergate. And Dustin's like, remember what I said? They wouldn't be stupid enough to go through Watergate? I overestimated them. You know, I really get a kick out of with Owens with the Owens' stuff.

Sometimes it works really well for me and sometimes it doesn't because I'm kind of like, what is the dynamic here exactly and like what's the hierarchy and like all of that? But I do quite like when Owens is. like, well, that went very well, I thought. You eased her into it, nice and gentle. Just like we talked about not ominous at all after like the most ominous sequence. That's very good. But I think my true runner-up to my actual pick would be the self-referential bit about

what they're actually going to call the Big Bad, who has had so many names in episode eight when Robbins like, we were wrong about Vecna, Henry, one, sorry, what are we calling him now? Dustin says one. Erica says Vecna, Lucas says one, and Nancy says Henry. and then the Chaser of that of Steve and Robin

like cheersing their Molotov cocktails to killing Henry Beckna one great absolutely great stuff I really like too when Steve does the in episode 9 so not the first travel on the sheet

rope but when they go back and he does the cool flip through trailer gate and Robin's like ooh you want us to do a blob Yeah. Yep. So great.

I love that. Jonathan, Charlie Heaton has this, like, really interesting face. But when he's trying to convince the Surfer Boy Pizza guy, and he says, my dude. He, like, the camera does something to his face where he looks like super grinchy in that moment. I don't know how to explain it. He got the, like, sort of long, sucy and upper lip. Seed paws of a dandelion. Line in the wind.

It's really good. The best. The Mideud is so good. Yeah. My dude. Yeah, you got to meet Chaz, a Taco Bell, you know? Meads must. That's a great one.

Yeah, and a lot of Argyll stuff there is very necessarily funny and weird. Weird girl psychic power. The fact that the getting ready montage includes Argyll making a pizza. I think all of that stuff is really fun. Eleven saying try before you deny is really cute. Like, it's good. It's good. I mean, let's listen.

in a moment of honesty, how many of your feelings about Mike Wheeler stem back to him saying, I don't want pineapple on my pizza? It's a safe space. Honestly, it's a very small percentage. We've got deeper problems. Oh, man. Speaking of food stuff, though, on the funniest moment's front, when Joyce is trying to get hop to talk dirty to her, basically, and, like, vividly describe his sexual fantasies about their.

long-awaited coupling. You know, pray tell. Like, oh, yeah, yeah, I have it all planned out. Pray tell. And he just starts talking about breadsticks. Yeah. And he's like, choice, I've been starving. She's like, really?

You don't want to talk dirty? He's like, no, I want to talk about food. You should see me stick my grubby little paws and some peanut butter. I'm hungry. Oh, my God. Great stuff. Scariest moment. The idea that Dr. Brenner put Henry on staff

and gave him unfettered access to the kids. Oh, man, this is a great pick. Yeah. It's scary how incomprehensible that is. Wow, this is a great pick. You're taking me right back to the season one pod when your pick for Scariest moment was shot. I've been taking photos of Nancy and she changed.

And I stand by it. And I stand by. And I stand by. Yeah, because, like, you know, he's got the inhibitor chip in his neck. So what? But he's got ID cards on the doors. He's got access to the superpower. You're letting him alone with the kids to sort of weave your little spell on them?

Jesus Christ, no. This is an absolutely sensational picture. He should be Hannibal Lecter up with a mask. And Lecter got out anyway. So, like, what are we doing? Incredible pick. I have a clip for this for scariest moment. Carlos.

Those stains are... I don't know what those stains are. This has to be the pick. What's funny is I had this as a runner-up and goopiest moment, but I love that it's here. I think it's very good. It's most memorable visual. It could go in a number of places. But why I ultimately decided to put it in scariest moment is because I thought it could be our on-ramp into a brief trip to hygiene corner.

Oh, yeah. There's a lot to talk about here. Says someone who had the husks of who knows how many cats. Hang out in her bedroom closet. It's good to get back in that headspace and think about what it was like to be this young. But the fact that the California slash Nevada crew just never changes, that they're in the same outfits, they're not showering. I mean, the closest anyone gets to a shower is 11 going into a salt path, which I imagine would make the outfit that she continues to wear pretty grunchy. So I have a lot of questions about that.

You have a Steve question that I'll leave for you to hit. But without question, the winner on Hygiene Corridor or the loser is. And we talked about this when we covered this in real time. I had so badly wanted Hopper and Joyce to fuck. I could not wait for them to hook up. It is canon that the prison break crew pulls a shawshank. That they go through, quote, miles of shit tunnel. Right?

Hopper, when he is threatening Yuri at one point, is like, I will wipe this cloth on the bottom of my shoe and then put it in your mouth. They are filthy. Without without even having the like Shawshank rain shower moment that Andy Dufram gets. Exactly. Yeah. Are they changing? Are they getting, you know, fresh garb? Sure. But is there a proper enough cleansing for this to be the moment where you wrap yourselves around each other at last and passionately kiss? No. This is so. like how bad do people smell when they fuck on Survivor to me that like I just can't I just can't like believe it I'm not glad that the phone rang and interrupted them but for this reason alone

the promise of a cleaner better day when they consummate their love and full at last for that reason alone I'm glad the phone rang I think they did it on the plane katinka not that plane not that's a whole time the other maybe it's entirely possible um would you like to talk about Steve's wound care on Hygiene Corner. There's this really endearing moment inside a war zone, which is also on my scariest moment list. That's my serious pick, yeah.

How many, well, I do think that Jason grabbing Nancy's gun is like genuinely very scary. Horrifying. Also, they walk past to keep America's safe sign, which is obviously deeply triggering. The number of children who are, I mean, the jocks are like arming up, but just like the fact that Vicky's just there

with her boyfriend who's visiting on spring break and he's like, let's go to the war zone, which is worse than like a Cabela's. Like a Cabela is okay because like you're camping or you're fishing. But this is just like knives and guns and stuff like that. Anyway.

Very upsetting. Robin is stirring longingly at Vicky who is smooching her horribly mulleted soon to be ex-boyfriend. And Steve comes up. Steve has gotten new clothing. He's no longer wearing Eddie's clothing. He puts a new leather jacket on and stuff like that.

And he's like trying to talk to her about like, don't worry about it. It's okay. Like blah, blah. But he is grubbing. and grimy and his, like, I don't know if he's, like, brushed his teeth and gotten the demo bat blood

out of his mouth, and he's got these lacerations around his neck that have not been cleaned. No neosporin has touched them. And it's just like, no. We're going to come back to the abdominal wound later, but, like, uh, oh, yeah. The wound care for Steve Arrington, what's happening?

I know. After he got, like, et by bats. It's worrying. It's weird. And Robin was, like, so worried. worried about rabies. And then I know Max's trailer has a shower. I know it does. Like, what's happening? They're on the clock. You know, Steve, one of the many characters over the years at seasons of Stranger Things to be like, I inhaled a lot of those particles. That's probably bad. So they're

focused on that as they should be, though, frankly not focused enough. But what has gotten into your wound? Listen, our Hopper enjoys filthy when they're kissing. Yeah, but at least Hopper was freshly bandaging a wound. Right. So the adults still actually to teach the kids, I guess. More worry. Infections. They're serious. Yeah. Will we find Steve with like just some, I don't know, what infection would he have? I guess enough time is past that he's probably fine. Demo Mercer? I don't know. Demo Merza.

On the war zone front, I agree. I think there's like the kind of, okay, call back to Nancy and Jonathan arming up in season one, but then like, you know, on steroids and amplified to a level of. of scale and horror that is just so deeply disturbing. And like the, do you think fake Rambo has enough guns there, humor that leads into just like the genuine horror of what we witnessed there? When Jason charges into the attic to confront Lucas and pulls the gun on him, that sequence is so scary and so upsetting.

And I love, love, love when Lucas says, after Jason says, I never should have let you in the door, which is obviously like deeply racially. coded and everything else. I love when Lucas says, and I never should have knocked. Yeah.

Very good. Man. I'm also going to put on this list, Henry's emotional manipulation of 11 is, I mean, Jamie Campbell-Bauer is incredible in these episodes, and I just think, like, that, like, really insidious, like, seduction, yeah. Manipulation.

And then, like, his, like, Jamie Campbell-Bauer was talking about how he held his eye, at a certain angle the entire time before the sort of like reveal, like in this sort of like up angle to denote like innocence and vulnerability. And then like when it's like, done, done, oh, you fucked up. Like his eyebrows go down, but I find it genuinely chilling.

Very good. Yeah. And like he's using this idea that Papa lies and Papa wants to control. But of course, that is also what he is doing. The chest pieces. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Goopiest moment.

If Eddie's mattress is not in contention. It certainly is. Absolutely. That can be a cross-category pick. Then it has to be the sequence of like Steve's torso getting snacked on, Steve biting a demo bat, and then the demo bat that Steve tosses away after beating it to a pulp just really like juicely squishes as it goes. So that's my super gross.

My goop moment. Great, great pick. I'll go with the in trailer gate when... I like they call it trailer gate. Watergate, trailer gate. I call it Chrissy gate, but trailer gate's better, I think. When Eddie and Steve and Robin and Nancy bike to Eddie's in the upside down and they see the red pulsing gate, and then they see this like fat like something poking at it before Dustin and his bruceon.

Something's in there. Break through the barrier and then it's just kind of like bursts open. That'll that'll be my pick, I think, for this moment. Very good. I put peanut butter on that. You have a little clip for this. For your honesty, dude. Amazing.

New clip, same as the old clip, essentially. It's just, you know, Shirley Steve, which again, I believe we probably will talk about in another category. But for your modesty dude is a tremendous moment, I think. For your modesty dude is absolutely iconic. It'll stand the test of time. I'm going to go with Katinka. She was named Katinka after my first lover.

Ketinka also had very beautiful, very round buttocks much like this. So that would be my pick. Very good. Did you know about one and three people with plaques psoriasis may also develop psoriotic arthritis, which causes joint pain, stiffness, and swelling? Does this sound like you? Listen to what it sounds like to be a million miles away. Trimphaya, gusalcumab, taken by injection, is a prescription medicine for adults with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis,

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Do you want to go first? Mine is Mike's confession to L. I felt like I had to get some Mike in here at the end of all things. You mentioned already that Mike finds himself in a Bridgett in a Bridgett's diary movie. He goes full Mark Darcy, right? I love you for exactly who you are, just as you are. just as you are. And what I do love about this,

in general, what I love about this is like that Mike, because this is where Elle, you know, the lights are flashing, they've pulled Elle out of the pizza bath. And Mike is trying to reach Elle with his words. And he is almost like, his words are almost functioning the way that like song is functioning for Max, for other characters. And before we get to the Mark Darcy of,

at all the I love you on your bad days. I love you with your powers, all of that. We get this moment, and this is why I thought it was appropriate for coming of age, where Mike is talking about himself for a moment, because a lot of this is about L, but he's talking about himself for a moment and about his insecurity and his vulnerability. And he says, I love you. Elle, do you hear me? I love you. I'm sorry, I don't say it more.

It's not because I'm scared of you. I'm not. I've never felt that way. But I am scared that one day you'll realize you. you don't need me anymore. And that line is my pick. I am scared that one day you'll realize you don't need me anymore because, yes, this is young love, all of that.

But it's something I think just even more deeply rooted in the experience of growing up, which we've talked about across every Stranger Things rewatch pod we've done, that gnawing doubt and fear that one day the people you care about the most will outgrow you. And they won't need you anymore. And like every character of the story has had their version. of that at some point, and it is one of the true through lines and heartbeats of the show to me. So I like that we got, like, voicing his version of that here. I think I'm going to pick something that Henry slash Fechna slash 1 says.

Great. When he says in his very, very long model, I saw my parents as they truly were to the world. They present themselves as good, normal people, but like everything else in the world, It was a lie, a terrible lie. They had done things, 11, such awful things. I'd showed them who they really were. I held up a mirror. Great back.

Again, don't love that I'm quoting Brenner and Vecna for like these life lessons. And the fact that like Henry's reaction to this was like, I will torment them with visions of their worst days is, you know, not ideal, I would say therapy first maybe. But yeah, we've talked about this theme before of like what happens. when you start to see the adults in your life as just people and that they have flaws and they're not just like these heroes. I thought that was really interesting out of the mouth of Vecna. Also, I mean, the idea of losing, right? We talked about this in the last pod. You brought up Empire as like Empire Strikes Back as a comp for Elle and her training and leaving that to help her friends and all that sort of stuff.

This is the Empire Strikes Back season, as they've talked about so often. And the main point of that is that they lose. Yes. So they lose. They win and they lose at the same time. Yeah. That's a great pick. Both of those picks are great.

The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool, the award for honoring the nerds. What do you have here for this one? I want to, this is actually tougher than it usually is. Yeah. Right? But I want to, it's a slight sheet, but I'm going to continue my Lord of the Rings tradition. Great. And talk about, this is really stealing from another category.

Talk about Lord of the Rings echoes inside of this. Great. So why I will say the idea of drawing the eye, you know, for Frodo, Return of the King, the idea of like, what can we do in Russia to draw the eye of Ekna way? So it's very like hopper for Frodo sort of stuff. And then the fellowship comes home, the scouring of the Shire stuff that happens at the end here when the Surfer Boy Pizza van rolls in town. Everyone's leaving. Everyone's on fire.

Peter Jackson, too much of a coward to do the Scouring the Shire, but the Duffer Brothers did it. Hawkins is burning. Oh, man. Yep. You know, the Shire is saved, but not for Eddie. So those are my main. I have a couple other little ones that I can mention, but I want to hear what you have first. So I have a clip.

And I'll explain my mashup here. Seriously, how many times do I have to be right on the money before you guys just trust me. Jesus Christ, this gets got to get his own, right? I know. Okay. So that was the moment you mentioned earlier. It's incredible. So it's his tone, right?

The delivery of that is so good. I know. Just fantastic stuff. So my pick here is Dustin being right about so much and figuring out so much with like, you know, the Vecna, Mineflyer, five-star general inversion, notwithstanding. But I kind of like, so I think that what Dustin is able to piece together

and what the group is able to piece together is the award for honoring the nerds. But then I'm kind of like smashing it up with this budding relationship and shared appreciation between Eddie and Steve as like a larger embrace of, kind of leaving the school cafeteria click tables behind, you know? Out of the shipping lanes into the nerd category. There's a lot of lead across these categories.

But so Dustin figures out how to communicate across the dimensions, as you noted, Steve Hearsum, right? So all of this is already entwined. Robin, the way that Robin just says, this is in the light, bright sequence, genius child is like so good. Great. So great. Dustin figures out there's a gate at every market.

site. That's when we get the clip that we just heard. And I just love then like these other moments with Eddie and Steve, which I think you're going to talk about more in another category. So the like Henderson told me you were a badass insisted on the matter in fact. Henderson said that. Oh yeah. Kid worships you dude. Like you've no idea. It's kind of annoying to be honest. And then Eddie building toward like Steve Harrington was actually a good dude. Rich parents. Popular. love them, not a douche, no way. No way, man. That, like, flies in the face of all the loss of the universe. My own personal, months in doctrine, still super jealous as hell, though. Like, I mean, that's almost the other, like an inversion, you know, because in theory, any is the nerd and

Steve is the cool guy, but they've all found themselves as part of the party and, like, the new dynamics that form and the new appreciation and understanding of, like, who each of them really is, and the way that they've learned for each other. And I think part of why this feels like the award for honoring the nerds is because, as Steve will say, to Nancy elsewhere, it's like you guys changed everything about my life and who I am and like what I think is important, you know? And that's like really awesome. And so it's awesome that Dustin figures out the physics of the portal and how the sheet rope will work. That's pretty fucking cool.

That's great. It's really cool that Dustin figures out like, hey, we can use what we know about Elle's power to understand what Vecna's weaknesses are. He's going to be in this trance and his physical form will be vulnerable. That's like impressive. But just the fact that this like nerd meld has taken root, that's. That shot we get when they're all kind of prepping their weapons of them just like frolicing about the meadow. In essence, like, larping, but doing it for real is just such a lovely. And like there are people in that group together who, when the show started, would not have spent a second talking to each other.

And they're about to save the world together. So that's my kind of like jumbled up pick. That's good. I like it. I have a couple of like mini things. My only runner up here was what you already mentioned, which was Erica shouting crit head, which it kicked. Dandy in the dick, which is just iconic. What else do you have here?

To echo your mic thing from earlier, him saying at least Lois Lane is an ace reporter for the Daily Planet. He talks about not being super enough for Elle. And then Argyle calling the Cabin Fortress of Solitude. Like we have to hire Supergirl. This isn't exactly a Fortress of Solitude. Dustin, to your point when he's talking about the plan for Vecna, says like slaying Dracula in his coffin, which I thought was really fun.

But actually, I actually think the real winner of this, is also related to Dustin. It's his Crasbury banjo contest 1986 T-shirt that he wears that he's wearing a banjo contest t-shirt from a real folk music festival

that happened in Vermont in the 70s and 80s I think is like if you Google this it is a true thing that happened but like if you Google it I mean AI has made Google so helpless

but like it's all do you want to buy this teachers or do you want to buy this t-shirt do you want to buy this t-shirt? Like, but who thought of this? Like, who thought of like, you know, did the Duffer brothers know someone who, like, loved going to the banjo contest in Vermont in the 80s? I don't know, but I love that Dustin's, that is such a fucking nerdy thing to wear. I went to a banjo contest in Vermont and I'm going to tell everyone about it with this t-shirt that I'm wearing.

Great stuff. Incredible. I need Dustin's takes on Pete Seeger. Do you think Dustin makes a third? through, and do you think in our timeline he watched a complete unknown and he had some takes? And he's on, he's on see your side. He's like, cut, cut the am. Cut the am.

Oh, man, great, great picks. Shipworse. What do you have here? I mean, Steve and Eddie is iconic. You've covered that beautifully. And you've already talked about Dustin and talking to Nancy about, I'm just going to say this. Okay. Steve, for me to you.

I know you're a ladies man. Here's my suggestion. You're going to make the pitch to your ex that she should forget about her California boyfriend and get back together with you. I don't think you should lead with six little nuggets. I don't think six kids is how we lead this conversation. I think you can say some kids. And then later say when I said some, I meant six. Six.

And then all the Steve Rob and Vicki stuff is. is very important to me. Yeah, sensational. The peanut butter booth. I mean, again, it really is the peanut butter season. It is. But Vicky and Robin at the peanut butter booth in the way Steve is like smiling watching them.

With like a shirt thrown over his shoulder, like a mom with a dish towel over her shoulder. Like, it's so good. When they have that conversation about Vicky in the Army of her battle sequence, and she says, you know, the stakes of my love life spectacularly, low, blah, blah. And Steve says, I still have hope. Like, I just think that's really beautiful.

So, yeah. Survival is insufficient. Steve Harrington knows it. Yeah. You got to have music. This is music. And you got to have hope. You got an impression. Yeah. That was a very good, Eddie impression. Thank you. Yeah. Uncanny. Uncanny. I really like Jonathan. I have had moments of being deeply invested in Jonathan and Nancy, I just ship Steve and Nancy. And I think more, I just ship Steve's happiness so fiercely. Yeah, we won what Steve wants. And so when Steve thought he wanted Robin, we were like, okay. And then you're like, nope, okay.

He wants Nancy again. Okay. What do you want, Steve? You should have it. I know. The moment that I wanted to pick for, because I do have a clip, but we had to, the moment I wanted to pick for the clip was when they're in the RV and they're talking the Six Nuggets conversation that you mentioned.

but just specifically when he's saying like, you know, spend a week, parked in the sand, learn how to surf or something, and that sounds nice. And the way that he turns to look at her, and there's such, like, love and longing and rekindled possibility in his eyes, which just says, yeah. She says, yeah, but there's James Taylor playing under it. So that's not my clip.

I have another clip. Remember the dream I told you about, but the Winnevago about seeing the country with my six all nuggets? It's all true. Every last word. But I left one part out. You're there. It really gets me.

It does. It just really gets me. I think we would, you know, when we're watching Nancy, like, examined Steve's gnarled torso. And the way that she wraps the bandage around him. I would love to say this to talk about it in another category. Great. Let's save it. The, like, way that the conversation in the RV and then that moment where Steve brings

brings it up again in the woods, makes us think about Steve's, not just experience in history with Nancy, but his overall arc is this character who, like, has gone from being, you know, the jock and the cool kid and the king of Hakatai to a character who for a while was like, I don't really think I have a future.

Like, I can't write this college essay. Should I just go work for my dad and let him decide what I want? Right. Like, just hearing him, it's less even about Nancy and Steve for me and more about, like, what that connection

unlocks for Steve in terms of just like being a person who wants a future and thinks he deserves one. Yeah, and just talking about like the you know, her giving him a knock on the head and how he learned. And like if he had learned from another girl before he met Nancy,

could it have been Nancy and him forever after? Like, it doesn't help that like Robin and Eddie are actively shipping Steve and Nancy in this season. You know what I mean? Poor John. No one's advocating for Jonathan. then it sucks. And then Jonathan gets back and they're fixing the cabin window and he's like, like,

I'm glad you were here. Who would have been in charge? Steve and Nancy's like he's actually matured a lot. Jonathan's like, uh-oh. Also, then Jonathan still lies about college to Nancy? I know. That's tough. After all this? It's very tough. Real phrasing stuff

when on that, you know, if I had met another girl who did this to me first corner when Steve's exact phrasing is giving my head the, biggest hump of its life two years ago. Indeed. Say hump? Not thump?

Bump. Yeah. But still. I thought you said hump. I was like, well. Obviously my runner-up is, we've talked about Vicky and Robin, but, you know, of course, we've already chronicled it. But on the Joyce Hopper front, in case it doesn't come up in our subtitles category,

I do just want to, as we talked about a few years ago, we covered this season in real time, once again, note that the subtitles, when they are finally kissing. I don't know, use your imagination, who needs imagination? They start to kiss, and the subtitles are Joyce moans, both exclaim, both moaning, phone rings, both groan. It's just very special. Pretty good, pretty good. Best quote. This is actually, I hate not having an answer for a category.

But initially, this is my, you speak about. of Monsters and Superheroes section, and then I moved it up to, like, emblematic moment. And then I couldn't find anything that I liked better than that. So, like, that's my quote as well, I guess. That's a great one. I had a lot of my contenders in other categories, too. You mentioned Rodman saying Great More Running.

That's a candidate for me. I like what Eddie says. So this place is like Hawkins, but with monsters and nasty shit, nice logline. Got a real kick out of Erica when Lucas and Dustin are talking about the law. And she comes in and says, the law, what is this? Gunsmoke the stupid and the ugly. Then she calls Lucas Cow Puncher. Unbelievable.

Yeah, really good. The stupid and the ugly. You know, both of the Argyle quotes that we've already invoked a few times, mind, fight, righteous, and yeah, got to be clean to enter the mind. Iconic. I guess my pick will be Max in episode 8 saying it's like he only sees the darkness in us, so I'll just run in the opposite direction, run to the light, and maybe he won't be able to find me there.

Oh, Max. Very good. Most memorable visual. It's either. No, I have a couple options. So I'll just pick one and then I'll see what you have. I'm going to give it to the bike flip with the older teens and the upside down. Then or then you flip. No, it's the kids and then you flip and then it's the older teens of the upside down. That's a great one. So we've talked about the stand mattress elsewhere. Yeah, I just everything with Chrissy Gate. Right. Yeah. That's my pick. I think that the use of the mattress and the sheet. rope pole ladder. Robin, like, holy shit, this is trippy. Dustin talking about the physics. And the way the camera pivots as they move from climbing to just falling and like the hair flipping to show us you know, the change in gravity. Like I really love the way that that looks. So I have a few pretty

like it was hard not to pick them runners up, but that that's my pick. I think that's just a really memorable visual. And I think as part of it, I think everything with that with that trailer gate because Christy Gate is really good. But like Nancy then falling down into the voice. in that moment is so shocking and so good. We're like so, it's such a good fake out because they're like, see you on the other side and you're like worried that Steve is going to be left behind because he's the last one to go. And you're like, oh, no, Steve's not going to make it. And then it's Nancy who falls into the voice.

Very good stuff. That's great. What else do you have here? Light bright. That's very good. Vecna plugged entirely into the Wi-Fi is a very good. visual. But I'm going to give it to, oh, I have a couple more. But I was thinking about, remember when you were talking about Inception and the way in which Christopher Nolan made sure we understand

what was happening on every layer of the, you know, it's like raining in this one and the gravity's not working in this one. I was thinking about that in the final sequence when you have like Max and Lucas lit by that iconic blue light. You know, like as we're switching around, like the lighting, the red that's happening for the teens and the house and all the sort of stuff like that is like, it's very deliberately done and lit so that you don't get disoriented as you're hopping from group to group to group, which I thought it was really legible and smart visual storytelling. That's my runner-up as well. And I think the way the blue lantern just looks is so gorgeous and so memorable.

So just in terms of like how compelling it is as a stylistic choice. But yeah, the kind of like Jedi blue against the Red Sith. The coating of that is also just really great. This is like such a random pick here. But you know what kills me when Owen says, or maybe you've just done all this because you missed your daddy daughter time. And Priner gives him that really long. side eye.

That kills me. That's a good one. That's so great. There's a shot of the doors in Russia, the doors closing on the demigorgon howling with a torch spear and its gullet. And it's just sort of like vibrating. But like the door is giving us like black, black, and you just see like the sliver of it, which I think is really, really good way to like do a digital effect. Like a digital effect with like a practical sort of framing around it. Henry turning into a gate is a pretty amazing looking. Yes.

That goes nicely into the next category, too, of pop culture references, because that is so Voldemort confetti to me. It's like unbelievable. It's very Voldemort confetti. There's a shot above of the helicopter over the Nina entrance where the helicopter is, like, blowing the dust around. And so it's like, they got a camera above a helicopter, like, in the air, which I think is, like, really cool. Eleven screaming as she pulls the helicopter out of the sky is like,

and the helicopter falling in front of her is pretty incredible. The last one at least, I will say, L, looking at the entire team when they're in Max's trailer, like, planning, you've got the, like, sort of phone that's, like, mounted in the middle of, like, nothing, do you know what I mean? Like, Max is on the phone to call. And, like, Elle is, like, looking at all of her friends gathered around this, like, set that they took out of the trailer into the void space.

And that phone is just mounted on. nothing and it just looks extremely cool. I love that. Great picks. Favorite pop culture influencer reference this season from any decade. You want to just rapid fire run through everything you have here? Sure. I just, for reasons unknown to anyone,

watch the I Know What You Did Last Summer remake that came out. Okay. I've not seen this. It's not good. But it reminded me of this iconic moment from the original that they repeat. of course in the reboot, which is Jennifer Love Hewitt saying, What are you waiting for?

Very iconic Scream Queen moment. Max gets to do exactly that in this season. So I want to shout that out. Also, this is like very neat. There's like some obviously more obvious stuff, but niche to my experience. Also, growing up in the 80s, before Paul Reiser was on Mad About You,

he was on the show My Two Dads, which I watched. a lot growing up where like he and another guy raised his girl. So there's just like all this Brenner stuff with Brenner that's just very my two dads, which I hope was deliberate. Vicki's dress is Molly Ringwald from 16

candles. A lot of Carrie blood balloon stuff and the snowball. A lot of Michael Myers, the mask and then the body disappearing, of course. The Cone Barbarian sword is here. Yeah. Yeah.

Eleven calling, like anyone calling Vecna Henry is very Voldemort Tom to me. Oh, for sure. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. No question. And I mean, also like, you know, Henry being like, oh, always I knew there was something. Always I knew I was special.

It's another very hairy season for Stranger Things with all the Patrona stuff. No question. It really is. The, our, our good old Stanmer. by Jurassic Park. Yep. What is Sotaria in Henry's neck, if not the licing contingency persisting? You know what I mean?

Yeah. Labyrinth, a movie you haven't seen, right? So they will watch Labyrinth together, but the clock and the floating stairs is very end of Labyrinth. Okay. And last but not least, a personal fave. 11 in the tank is very Samantha Borton and minority report sort of. Certainly.

Yeah. Floating in the water. Anything you have here? We've hit a lot in other categories as well, like all the super bad stuff. I, and obviously, Lord of During stuff, I get real one of our favorite Star Wars moments. Like, we are what they grow beyond vibes from when Hop is talking about how I think it must be hardwired into us to reject our fathers so we can grow and move on, become something of our own. I think that's what she's doing coming into her own. Hopper not being able to initially light the torch is so you're in the firemaking challenge.

They've hurt to me. You have to build your kinling and then blow on it. You practice. You had a whole strategy, but can you do it when it counts? No. I think when one says to 11, imagine what we could do together. We could reshape the world, remake it however we see fit. Join me.

It's just so Star Wars temptation to the dark side. It's Kylo. It's healthy. It's all of it. It's all of it. it. We get the choice saying that Murray is the star's key to my hunch. When they're in the lab in the Russian prison and they see the demigods and the particles, that makes me think of a lot of stuff. It makes me think of like the Zemo and the hydro base. It makes me think of the snook clones.

It makes me think of alien resurrection. That's a visual that evokes a lot. The particles themselves, obviously very lost smoke monster, I think, also very obscure. on the HP front. 100%. And, you know, dust in general, I'm always thinking about Philip Goldman. Oh, God.

I still have to read the new book. I really need to get on that in. The holidays are coming. We'll definitely have time off. I was just going to say that holidays and then I remember. We're watching Stranger Things. We've already talked about Shawshank and Rambo.

I think the Brenner telling L, you're going to need to do more than walk or run, you will need to fly as very, ran like three-eyed raven to me. Let's see. What else? What else? I think in general, just we'll hit this a little bit more when we do our like season five look ahead at the end.

But it's a very, let's remind everyone we have a hive mind season, right? A very hive-mine-centric stretch. And the way that the particles are animating Vecna's army is so like we're being primed for Killed the One, Kill the Many, like the Passage, Whitewalkers and the Whites, except, I mean, the list could go on and on and on and on there. Let's see. We get it. I got a bad feeling about this.

Star Wars not. I think that the vines, when Robin and Steve and Nancy go into the Creole Mansion and the upside down, and the vines are absolutely everywhere and it's terrifying. And poor Robin is like, I'm so, you know, I'm worried I'm a klutz. That, I mean, last of us, the show hadn't come out yet, but the styling of the cordyceps spread in the game, like that really looks like that to me.

And high-fine stuff. Yeah. This is a good place to talk about it. because I don't have it anywhere else. I know we talked about this the last time we covered it, but the fact that, like, those three are up on that wall being nearly choked to death for, like, 15 minutes. It feels like, so long.

Yeah. Vecna's like, I'm going to kill them. Eventually, I'll get there. What's going on? What going on? What going on? And then, of course, the talisman. I mean, Max, Lucas can be reading anything to Max, but he's reading Stephen King's the talisman, which... It is. Talisman. You pronounce it talisman? How should I be saying it? No, I don't know about talism.

I always say talisman. That's probably right. Yeah. In terms of the... But I like talisman. It sounds so spooky. Talisman. Dimensions, other worlds, etc.

Yeah, there are a lot. I mean, there are always a lot, but there are really a lot in the stretch. Most potent use of 80s nostalgia. It's light bright. of clock, baby. Yeah, definitely. I have, light bright is the pick, no question.

I have two other candidates. Yeah, the Walkman's here. Man, it's tough when the Walkman gets stepped on. Fucking Jason. What a, what a piece of shit. But also, it's a great plan. Yeah. I would have some backup Walkmans.

This is a good note. This is a really good note. A stereo, like some, you know, some backup tapes to use here. This is a just fantastic note on Battle Prep. You can't just have the one walkman. No. What about... Dustin's Ewak costume, a great one, right?

Yeah. What about what I'm calling Brenner's Criterion Clause of Surveillance VHS? That's a fantastic one. Please be kind of rewind, which you already mentioned. Yeah. And then the Hulk Hogan shirts on Joyce and Hopper, of course. On the physical media front. I would also like to nominate physical media, colon, porn division here for the following exchange.

Erica, when she's like, something about what's going on. And then she says, or I tell Dustin what I found under your bed. And Lucas says, please know. And Dustin says, what did she find under your bed? Lucas, nothing. Dustin is it gross. Erica, nodding Dustin, scale of one to ton. Erica, 100.

In the digital era. I mean, it has to be Playboys, but like, why wouldn't he be more comfortable with Dustin knowing if Erica knows? Do you know what I mean? I mean. My understanding of, like, young boys who, like, looking at naked ladies was, like, this was a group activity. They're swapping mags all the time. You would, like, go into the woods together and look under logs for Playboys. These are fabled stories I've heard to have.

Right? I mean, what is Lucas looking at that? That's the question. How upsetting is this? Yeah. But, you know, the hiding your playboys under the bed, real, uh, the hearkening back to another year. Great call. Great call.

I'm sticking on the 80s here This has to be where we both are going to talk about Ted again 80s parents, we have some notes Ted Wheeler time Do we both have a clip? Is it the same clip? There are two possible clips So maybe we picked the same one Maybe we picked different ones. Carlos, play them

Let's see Fretting them with a little jail time Maybe that'll loosen their lips Okay Do you want to send our kids to jail? They need to take this series He didn't mean it like that Yep, it's Ted Wheeler

Saying maybe we should threaten our children with a little jail time. I will say, on the ongoing Dustin gives Ted Wheeler's shit, his like, okay, is very good, very good. That was my clip as well. Could have gone with you're lucky you didn't get shot, and Dustin's, but threaten them with a little jail time is just unbelievable stuff from Ted, a complete maniac.

My runner up here is when the surfer boy van pulls up at the end. Does anyone order pizza? And Karen embraces Mike. And pretends that she gives a shit about her kid has been. She's like, you're never leaving again. You forget college. And I'm like, you have barely noticed that he is gone. This is an absurdity and a farce.

Great, great point. So the wheelers in general. They're always the pick. Always. I think it's time to go back to Abdomen Corner here to talk about the fit or hairlord of season four. Is this where you will be returning to? No? No.

Oh, my God. Yeah, you're going to love where it is, though. I'm very excited to see where you have this. Okay, who's your fit lord? You mentioned Dustin for his like EWalk slash Red Dawn Warrior Get Up. That's my, that's my pick. That's my runner-up. I also have as a runner-up Robbins just like the Robbins outfit at the end.

Yeah. Yeah, the striped shirt, the suspenders, the great, all of it. The mixing of the patterns, yeah, very good. Great shit. But my actual pick is, and I'll keep it quick because I can't wait to find out where you have this. But it's Steve Harrington twice over. I went to Warzone and I bought a camo tee and a sick leather bomber jacket and look like still the coolest action star alive. But for your modesty, dude, as we've already talked about, is just one of the most important moments in the history of the series.

And Steve, for a really long stretch of the story walking around in the like loose fitting trousers that we talked about last pod, the abdum and wrap that you will be returning us to. Eddie's vest and the flashlight is the stuff of absolute legend. This is just an incredible. Steve has kind of like always the pick for Fitlord. We've talked about some other characters over the pods, but he's always in the mix. This is one of the most memorable, Steve. It looks. It's unbelievable. I agree with you. Best needle drop. Master Puppets, I assume. You go on with something else? Donna, blondie, bowie, Beatles music. We need music. This is music. Yeah, Master Puppets. The return of of Moby, which ruined my ability to play that Lucas Max clip. But the return of season one Moby is really, really good in this stretch.

Master of Puppets is really good. Fun fact, we might have mentioned this when we covered this before. The song was released on March 3rd, 1986. This episode takes place March 22nd, 1986, which means Eddie learned the song in little over two weeks. A notoriously, like, terribly difficult song to play. So what a legend. I believe it.

I like when Eddie looks at the guitar in the upside down when they go into his room so that he can grab it. He says, it looks like she was destined for an alternate dimension. What do you say,

Henderson? Are you ready for the most metal concert in the history of the world? The subtitles here are swarm chittering. You hate a chitter. Ferocious guitar riff,

shreds, guitar solo, great shit. I just love the adoring look on Dustin's face as Eddie is playing guitar here. It's so cool and so great.

Yeah, the needle drops in the stretch are really good. We get some up, we get some up around the band. Great shit. Fire and Ration. by James Taylor all-time

her. She's separate worlds. Malibin, dad core. I love CCR. When they were playing CCR and James

Taylor back to back I'm like this did Mallory is this her Winnebago? Like what are we what are we doing here? I know genuinely

two of my like favorite songs. I love CCR. Fire and Rain is one of my absolute favorite James Taylor songs. That was really exciting.

You know, we get some great journey here as they're ready for the battle to assume the battle positions at the end of episode

eight. That's a great. Calling back to every breath you take like when we pour ourselves back into the snowball by returning to that song, that's very powerful.

Really great. Someday can we go on a road trip and just play Simon Agarfocal and CCR? And you and I have a very shared fondness for that era of music. Okay. I just want to guess on this. This is usually needle drop and not score,

but I want to say, and I couldn't find this track on the score. There's a ton of score of C4 score on Spotify or wherever you listen to music, but the organ score when Henry slash Vecna is monologuing with the chorus behind it is like maybe my favorite Stranger Things score moment. I couldn't find it anywhere. And then I just want to shout out to the track names on the score while I was looking for

this organ score. I found the track names of the score. One is called In the Closet parentheses at Rinkomania, which I think is like an incredible track title in the closet at Rinkomania. And then the other is they took one of the closed captions and made it. So one of the funniest closed captions is delicate, intense music playing. So the name of the track is bracket, delicate intense music playing ellipsies, close bracket. So I thought that was really funny.

That's just great shit. And the perfect transition into the next category, which is, if it has had Netflix subtitles, wait, it does. What's your pick for the most Netflixy subtitle in this stretch? It's crowded fucking field. TikTok, it's torso o'clock. Okay, so I actually had this with the captions only, but then one of our listeners, Sam, wrote in as their nomination, with the captions and the dialogue.

So I would like to read this. This is from our listener, Sam. Nancy, okay? Caption, Steve Grunts. Nancy, you ready? Steve, yeah, just do it. Caption, wet squelch, stifled, groan. Stifled, groan.

Nancy, sorry. Steve, it's okay. Caption, grunts. Nancy, too tight? Steve, no, that's good. Nancy, all right. Caption, grunting, panting. Nancy, okay.

Steve, thanks. Nancy, yeah. Holy shit. That was a transcendent experience. Thank you, truly. Too tight takes that into another stratosphere. I don't know. I think wet squelch followed by stifled groan is pretty... Oh my God.

So I had Steve Grunt's wet, wet, squelge, stifled groan, grunts grunting panting, but with the dialogue in between takes it to another level. So shout out our listener, Sam. What would you like to add to this? I agree. I have some great runners up, but what would you like to add here? I've already mentioned the Joyce and Hopper. Joyce Moes both exclaimed both moaning phone rings, both grown.

There's also the... Because they go to their separate areas to change, and Joyce is like... Looking back, looking over, peep him. A real, a real, you think Jonathan got it from Joyce? A peep forward family. Oh my God, maybe. And when she sees him starting to change the bandage and it's delicate yearning music playing sighs, hopper-grunting gingerly inhale sharply right as I're about to finally kiss.

So that's great stuff. I kind of like bucketed some of my other contenders here into like so. There's so many in this stretch. It's like impossible to go through them all. But I really think some of the descriptions, that we get in the subtitles of the gates in these three episodes. Do you want to do the gates and then

can I do my tentacle? Yes, we have gates, vines, descriptions of people violently dying, and then Vecna are the bucket series. Give me your gates. I'll give you my tentacles. Just some of this. Just so.

Just some of the gate descriptions. Ominous, pulsing, wet writhing. Discomfiting, slithering. That's all when Tiny L is watching the first gate stedge itself closed. Trailer gate, gate pulsates wetly, gate squelches, gate oozing. On and on the list goes, that's kind of just like the flavor that we're working with here. Give me some of your vine tentacle action.

Tentacles undulating moistly. Tenticle adheres wetly. And this is genuinely my favorite, Icarus tentacles constrict. That's a good one. That's a really good one. We also get a roiling wetly and a slither wetly. Very good. Remarkable stuff.

Here are some of the descriptions. Different vibe. Different vibe. Here are the descriptions of people being brutally killed. Real shift in tone here. The Demergan is eating the prisoners. Feral snarling, prisoners yelling, prisoners screaming, bone crunching, roaring,

and then we get billed toward Demacorgan feeding wetly. This one, makes me laugh so hard. So Papa takes the bullet to the arm, takes the bullet to the leg, and then he is pierced through the back. The bullet explodes out of his chest. And the subtitle say flesh bursts. Really, this is an absolute art form.

Masterpiece. The Demabats attacking Eddie. Flesh rending, anguished whale. Terrible. Oh, God. there's a lot of vector stuff always, but I really enjoy as he's walking toward Max, wet footsteps squelch, which is revolting. And I texted you this last night, but when he's on fire, nightmarish howls.

Yeah, nightmarish howls. Nightmarish howls. Nightmarish hell is so good. I will just add three more guttural gurgling. And then intricate macabre music playing. Good one. Very good. And last but not least.

And honestly, this is just fantastic. Eldrich thrumming. This is like really, really great. Eldrich thrumming is like... Beautiful description. Absolutely gorgeous. I hope the captioner just treated themselves to an extra latte that day.

They really deserved it. Incredible stuff. Okay. Sees an MVP, other than the person coming up with these incredible subtitles, because that honestly could be the pick. Awesome. We're doing it again.

Like, kid, mid-adult, in terms of the three different age groupings, I'm sort of violating the premise of that with my middle category today. These are all people who are different age groups, but I'm not using the middle one as I think it's intended, but it is what it is. What's your pick here?

It's still Lucas for me and kid. I'm torn between Eddie and Jonathan and mid, to be honest with you. It might be Jonathan for that scene that they added. You're welcome, Charlie Heaton. I was so sad watching the mids, watching the teens, the older teens, watch season four, and it's, you know, it's Joe Keri, it's My Hawk, it's Natalia, and it's Charlie, the four of them. And it's just Charlie's sitting

there not saying anything as the three of them talk about all the scenes they had together. And he's like, I wasn't there. And then last night least, this might be, you might have him in mid, but I'm putting Jamie Kimballbauer in adult. That's where I have. Yeah. Because what I decided to do here, you ended up talking about really so, and I'm glad one of us was doing this throughout the pod. You talked a lot about 11-1 and Papa throughout the pot, but I was, like, paralyzed by fear that I had not talked about them enough in other categories. So I decided to do the three of them. Oh, 11-1 and Papa because the entwinment. I mean, I think, first of all, you know, all three of the performances are great. Obviously, 11 is carrying a lot of the story in this stretch as is one. And, you know, Papa to an extent as well, but just the... Let's honor Matthew Modine. Always. But he'll probably be back in season five.

You can't kill him. No, he'll be back in some capacity. You know, whatever. Absolutely, no question. And they're like, you know, whether it's the long reveals or the visions that other characters are glimpsing or anything else, you know, we've gone through a lot of that already. But I think the kind of key beats of like one telling L they're the same, you know, that like I didn't fit in with other children idea, one telling...

Elle about the spiders, this idea of great comfort of kinship, deeply misunderstood. They are gods of our world, the most important of all predators, the way that he sees himself in that isolation and what that tells us. And like the real there, but for the grace aspect of that for 11, you know, obviously the moving back of the clock and one saying, I could make my own rules, I could restore balance to a broken world, a predator, but for good. Like, L is consumed And you picked this for most emblematic clip, and we've talked about it a lot across the pods, like this superhero monster idea and Elle's worry that she is the monster, not the superhero, but like one and Papa both used the idea of like the greater good to justify the monstrous acts.

And like, so when you have Elle standing up to Papa then in episode eight and saying like, you know, you kept Henry in the lab with the children, was that for our good? a right choice, you know, and really challenging him, but then also, like, quoting Henry to him, even though Henry is also manipulating her, like, Papa does not tell the truth, which is, like, a truth inside of the manipulation, you know? I came here to try to understand who I was to see if I was the monster, now I know the truth. It is not me. It is you. And this is this hugely triumphant moment for 11. And then Elle and Vecna are together in the mind palace, and he turns, and he says you and she says hi, which is sick. And then he's like, do you not see 11?

did not make me into this, you did. And this like, tantalizing idea that we love in stories, like we create our own demons. And 11 did not create Henry Creel or one. We'll talk about that more in a minute here. But the connection in their arcs and the inextricable nature of these paths, like the way that he says to her, I sought a means to open my own doors. I sought your power is such a fascinating springboard for what still awaits and a connection to what we already know. So, yeah, the three of them together are my MVP pick for the stretch. Very good.

Jamie Campbell-Bauer is, like, so amazing. He's phenomenal. And, like, I do think it was, like, casting, spoiler to cast him in this role because, like, you know he's not just playing the orderly. So, like, slightly. But he's so good. And also what I love, his American accent's not. tremendous. But I kind of like that, that like, both Vecna and Henry have these, like, weird

little—Vecna, like, hitting his hard hours to try to sound American is just actually very funny to me. I really like it. Accent Corner with Joanna Robinson for Vecna's. Great stuff. Can't we see more of that in season five. See you, season five. Let's do a little season five. Look ahead as we'd like to. We'll hit a couple of the things from the stretch of episodes that maybe like race the big season five questions for us or that are on our mind on like the lore and mythology front or anything else.

A lot of these things we've talked about already on the rewatch pod so we could breeze through it. But like I mentioned this already. The hive mind emphasis in these episodes is I think just not possible to ignore. So my question is like, okay, you get it everywhere, right? You get Steve like you step in a vine, you're stepping on a bat, you're stepping on Becknow.

We get reminders there. But of course, I think the prisons stretch is maybe the most notable here, coupled with what we see when Henry and when Juan is actually in the other dimension and we watch him turn what we'd call what we know as the mind flare. He warps those particles. He moves and reshapes the smoke into his very like will drawing his drawings at home, right? His spider sketch.

So he has forged this weapon. And he has like, you know, we get the like the... This is where I'm not sure if I should talk about the first shot. or not. Okay, well, I'll finish the setup and you can, you can decide. So he says they call it the shadow. This is Murray and the prison stretch. The shadow went into them into who.

And it's like, okay, the demagogu. Like, the demagogues, animating the demodogs, right? So if the part of how the hive mind is functioning is that Vecna is putting the particles into his army to control them and that is part of the connection is part of the key to defeating him. Obviously, you kill the one, you kill the many, but is part of the way to make him vulnerable? Like, can L pull those particles out? Can L control them the same way that one could shape them in the first place and just deprive him of the army completely? Is that something that L, that's a theory slash question on my mind based on how the particles are used?

We have to worry about Will in that instance. Like, you know, what is, yeah, yeah, we're very worried about well. The Debe Gorgon, Vecna, Mindflare, what is the order of authority question? I'll just, I'll try to keep this vague. And I'll just say, in the first shadow, it is not implied. It is that the Mindflare predates this, like, formation of the Mindflare by Henry that we see inside the show. And this idea that, like, the Mindflare was manipulating Henry from the start, the way. the way that sort of like

will was possessed by the mind flare later. So like, I don't know if it's right that Vecna's in charge and the mind flare is at his beck and call. I don't know if at the end of the day it's actually the mindflayer in charge and that Dustin was right about that. Do you know?

So it's interesting because like I think that the what's clear in the show is that like this realm has been around forever. This is like another big question just in showland, right? It's like we've talked. about this a lot, the kind of power origin thing, because Henry's powers, it seems that Henry's powers predate arriving at Hawkins. Like, the family moves there because he has, his powers are

presumably part of why he is like, he says, I didn't fit in with, like you, I didn't fit in with the other children, something was wrong with me. All the teachers and the doctor said I was broken. My parents thought a change of scenery, a fresh start at Hawkins might just cure me. It was absurd, as if the world would be any different here. And then it's kind of presented. I read it as like, then the powers awaken and like are amplified in Hawkins. By living on top of the hellmouth or something like that? Yeah, because the veil is thinner there. Yeah.

But his powers would, I mean, it's not, I would say that's not definitive. It's just like maybe he's a child who was different for other reasons. But it is implied, I think, that he had these powers already and then they were kind of like fully awoken. I think, again, I don't know. I don't know how much to talk about this show. It's very strange to me But like Because there's the

Because I think all of these things Could still make sense, right? We're like Can I see something And just say like listeners can skip ahead If they don't hear it? Is that? Sure.

So this is the premise of the show Skip ahead if you don't hear it Is that Henry was not inherently evil He was just a regular nice boy Who like Will disappeared into another dimension For a period of 12 hours And return completely changed Is worth noting here

that Henry did not disappear into the upside down, but into something they called Dimension X. He returned with his powers, but under heavy influence from the mind flare. So that's what happens in the stage show. So, which does seem to like slightly, though not entirely contradict what is in the show. But is the mind player in the stage play,

the particles or another force that we have not been introduced to yet? It looks like the spider. Like that's what it looks like in the stagecraft that they use in the show. Right. So then Henry thinks he is controlling something that really is controlling him, which would be like a connection to all of the other history that they have with Papa, each other, et cetera. And there's this, there's this line that Henry has, if we consider that Canada, which we're supposed to, there's this line that Henry has where he says

they could not close off my mind and join in the madness. And by that, we think he means like, I couldn't pretend that everything was normal, but I could not close off my mind based on what happens to Henry in the show where you see this corruption. of, it's sort of like, it's Harry and Voldemort, right? Like, Harry has to, like, block his mind from the influence of Voldemort. But, like, Henry is an example where he failed to do that. And the mind player takes over him, whereas, like, 11 and or will, will they be able to resist in a way that Henry was not able to?

And is there enough Henry still left in Vecna that they can, like, reach that boy who, pre-corruption? And is that the key to defeating him is to find the, like, Right. There's all those other stuff with like Henry's diary and stuff like that, which I suspect is going to be involved. But that seems like too particular for me to go into right now. But like in terms of like the relationship between Vecna, did Vecna can create the Mind Flair? Do the Mind Flair create Vecna? It feels like the stage show is trying to say the mindflare created Vecna.

And Vecna thinks he's in control of the mind flair, but actually the mind flares pippeting him, I think. Yeah. But hobbits and dragons at gmail.com, if I have failed to grasp that correctly. I don't know. I think that would be very interesting, certainly. And regardless, I think this question of like, why here with Hawkins in the upside down, you know, I think another thing that everything we learn about Brenner and Henry, right, because there's like that moment where we learned that Brenner was basically after Henry,

like, before Henry did this to his family. And then he's like, I ended up with the same doctor. was trying to avoid. So then it makes you think, like, well, how did Brenner know about him? And what was he? And like, what's the question always like, why Hawkins Lab, why here, etc. So like, you know, that's also answered in the stage show. Again, I don't know how much talk about, but like, yeah. I mean, I feel like we should not like spoil all of season five for people of the sense of doing what they do. But I will just say they have answered that in the stage show, how they will make. that clearly the audience is in season five is, is, uh, remain, this is, this is put me in a real bind.

Um, but yeah, that idea of like, why Hawkins, why Brenner is fascinated by Henry before this massacre and all that sort of stuff like that is, is something they've already, like, crafted the answer to me. Yeah. I'm looking forward to seeing, like, what they do with that in the show. I think it's interesting that like, there was this, you know, the satiria, like the power blocker and Elle knows that. So it's like, you know, that's a horrible thing. to do to somebody, but like, will that come and play in some way? I was wondering about that, too, about sataria. It's very interesting.

I think the earthquakes are interesting to me, too, because obviously, like, there's the earthquake payoff in season four of just what happens in Huckins and the bleed between these dimensions. But the, the, Vecna murdering teens in the right side up in order to create gates so that these, like, ruptures, these fissures can spread. is one thing. But when Robin and Nancy and Steve and Eddie are in the upside down, there are these constant quakes.

So it's sort of presented as like there's something unstable about the upside down. Oh, possibly. Also, I was wondering what's up with that. I thought it was like on the verge of emerging that that's what those earthquakes meant. Do you know what I mean?

It might just be that. In terms of like, in terms of the demo is about to break, to use Brenner's sort of analogy. Yeah, it's definitely possible that that was just like earthquake, resolved at the end of season 4 with what happened there, but it's like, is something happening in just the upside down

that is like not stable? And, you know, I think that that kind of gets to the choice of having Lucas read what he's reading to Max too because it's like multiple dimensions, right? That's like part of that story. The talisman. Yeah, the talisman. I was wondering about the talisman if part of season five,

was going to be like they have in terms of like actual talismans like things like inception like totems that keep you anchored or something like that. That would be really fun. I think the other thing about upside down instability, the part of the reason that was on my mind too was just the idea of it being frozen in time and like what that. Significance of November 6th, 1983 is like a top of mind for me for sure. Yeah. It's really interesting. On the time travel front. Yeah. We've already covered this a million in different ways. But, you know, we have to mention the Steve talking about crawling backwards, always in reverse. Like, that's another sort of like...

Great stuff. A little thing to feed us. And then we did get a listener email about this, but this was on my list already anyway. The, like, why there's no water in the upside down. Yeah. And the fact that Dustin in the finale, when he's, like, at the shelter helping people, and he says, H2O, vital for all forms of life. You know, so, like, will that...

Will the lack of water and the upside down play into something? I don't know. Or is it just really cool looking to have an empty pool and an empty lake and all this other stuff? Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. Where are you on Brenner using Henry's, like, blood as a super soldier serum for the other kids in terms of the creation of these other superpowered kids?

Like the idea that he had the powers and the other kids who were there were created in that. lab as as Henry says right he he yeah he began a program and soon others were born you were born again this is for shadow stuff that I can't talk about I guess so yeah sorry this what a bummer that I am in this section I'm so sorry uh let's see what else I dug too greedily and too deep I know but like but it's out there and so people know it so it's just it's very it's very weird yeah I but like where where are you with that well I'll just I'll just turn it back on you Where are you with the blood? I don't, I think the thing that,

the fact that Brenner was like doing this stuff before Henry and like wanted Henry, you know, makes me think that he was on to the existence of these powers or whatever the upside down or another force, another dimension perhaps like charging up people with these abilities. So that makes it less likely, I think, but maybe the. then he's using Henry's blood to say, well, here's how I can do my version of that. I don't need to wait for someone to be exposed to this dimension. I can do it on my own, which is kind of classic.

Like, you try to bottle the thing that occurs in nature. And I guess Henry's blood would be the way to do that. So I still think that seems like pretty possible. One thing that is made clear and for a shadow that I think is nothing to do with the blood. That I think is kind of clear in the show. think it's good to have it sort of confirmed is that Brenner encouraged Henry towards violence because the violence and the killing and all of that sort of stuff like juiced him up. And so when we meet Brenner and he's encouraging 11 towards violence in the first season

with the cat, with the guards, all this sort of stuff, like that's just another version of him trying to juice her up because every time when we see Vecna kill a Chrissy or whoever, he's kind of juicing up the violence and the death makes him more powerful. And that's something that Brenner was actively trying to incite. So this idea of like violence and anger as a power scaler is something that came from Brenner to Henry and that Henry passes to 11 that Brenner also tried to inspire an 11. But how demented. I mean, we already know that Brenner's demented.

that he's tattooing children, he's doing all kinds of shit. But the fact that he's like... Very gnarly. Here, kill something because it'll juice you up so that I can, you know, like, do whatever else I want to do with this information is disturbing. Papa, fucked up guy. Yeah, like I said. What else?

Anything else on the season five front that you want to hit? The look ahead front. Other than, like, you know, we wanted to do some character check-ins, but other than that, I don't think I have anything else. No. Who do you want to check in on? I want to start. I mean, let's start with 11 and just say, you can fly, you can move mountains, like all these sort of like hints about the power scaling for 11, 11 performing psychic CPR on Max. Like all, like her power scaling is something that I'm interested in. But more than that,

when Brenner says, I need you to understand please and she says goodbye, Papa, we both like that moment of just sort of like a fuck you, blah, blah. But, like, I need you to understand, please, and she refuses to, like, have that moment. Feels like a lesson that she still needs to learn. I don't think Popper deserves, like, forgiveness or anything like that. That guy sucks, as we just outlined, doing shit with blood and tattoos and all that sort of stuff like that. But I think any time a character sort of, like, refuses to walk through a door, we have to wonder if that's a door they need to walk through to ultimately, like, get to where they need to get to. to quote-unquote win. Yeah, it's interesting too

because she was very willing to give that grace to Henry. Right, because she felt more of a kinship with him. And then when he's kind of the one who's like, that's not where this is going, that maybe then further cements the inclination to no longer seek that out.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. How about you? Where are you? I remember, one of the things I remember vividly about covering this season the first time is that you were like,

11's going to have to stay behind. Right. Like, where are you with that? Is that still, does that feel like most likely to you? I don't know. Where are you with that? The, his dark material is ending.

Yeah. I'm pretty worried about it. Here's, here's, let me, let me enter an alternative idea. Okay. What if 11 has to give up her powers? So instead of like her physically being trapped in the upside down or whatever, she's just a mortal girl. Yeah.

And that's, you know, can she give up? up what, especially given so much of season four is about like, my superpowers are what are who I am. Like, interested in me or like all this other stuff like that. So like, who am I without them? She's already gone through that a little bit. But like, permanently giving up her powers in order to close the gates or something. That would be my hope is that we're heading toward not necessarily a literal death or

I have to stay behind in this other realm in order to fully, truly, forever, close or sealed the gate. you know and that it is more of a the what closing this off what what sealing this means is that the the battery can't be charged because the connection to the thing that is the source of our power is sealed off

and that is a sacrifice I am willing and able and comfortable making because I believe that I have value and worth outside of my powers that would be I think like a really lovely place for 11th story to end. Yeah. Who else? I mean, Will. Yeah. Okay. So Will, we're so worried about the first five minutes has not made us any less worried about Will, et cetera. But there's this moment in episode eight in the season that really struck me on rewatch because it ties into our earlier sort of like Will wanting to like stay in the basement and Mike's like, we weren't going to do that our whole lives. And in episode eight, he says we could just play D&D and

Nintendo for the rest of our lives. Like, he's still there. He hasn't learned that lesson yet, right? Like, we can run away and we can just do this and it'll be fine. And so that like sort of a rest of development space that Will is in. And what I really, what I really hope, and I talked about this a little bit when we talked about the trailer and some of the promo images that come out is that we've seen like Robin and Will together. So this idea of like Robin was just like a little bit further on her journey about her identity and her sexuality. Like, can she be helpful to Will in this regard to, because I see, I mean, as not a queer person, I don't want to speak for the queer community, but like, I think that this idea that like, Will's sort of like inability to move outside of childhood and him being like so deeply clositive and full of shame, I think go hand in hand. And so I just like this idea of progression, evolution, liberation for Will who has been stuck in November

1983, you know, this whole time. So I think that that's what I want for Will. Yeah. Me too. I love Will. Steve. What do you want to say about Steve? I just am really still very scared that Steve Harrington is going to die and I really would prefer he not to.

Like, I just really would prefer that Steve Harrig did not die. And I prefer that almost all of these characters not die. But I think that the Steve, the process, the process, of Steve's death, either is the thing that the creators have talked about, like, was the plan, and then they changed it, and then, you know, all the times that we've chronicled that, like, he was in peril to the point where it seemed impossible he would make it out alive. I kind of don't want that to all have been a march toward he just dies anyway. Though I do think that Steve is a character now who would make the sacrifice play,

who would choose to give up his own future in order to protect the people that he loves. So if he does that, I'm sure I will find it deeply, like, moving and beautiful. I just, like, kind of want Steve to end up with his nuggets in an RV, like driving to the peach. Life sucks right now. The deafers, are you listening? It's not too late. If you've killed Steve. Don't deprive us of Steve Harrington, please.

If you've killed Steve, everything sucks right now. It would be great if, like, we could just keep Steve Harrington. That would be lovely. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for that. I agree. On the Henry front.

Yes. Again, this idea of not, like, redemption. He doesn't deserve that, obviously. But like, rehumanization, is there a way in which Henry becomes, like, the billy on a massive, a bigger scale of, like, what's the last minute sort of like remembering my own humanity, remembering that I'm a person sort of thing that could happen, that he becomes a weird ally at the end of all things. If the mind, again, I still don't really understand the order of operations. I feel like we have conflicting information. But if, say, the mind player is in charge. and Henry can return to himself in some way or another

or they can access him in some way or another. I think that would be interesting. But if Vecna is the big bad, the Vecna is the big bad, again, I'm not asking for, like, redemption. He doesn't deserve to live. But I always like when the monsters, like, become, you know, when Darth Vader becomes Anakin again.

Like, that's interesting. That's gut-wrenching, you know what I mean? I love a Star Wars redemption arc. You know, I'm inclined to say, we've seen Henry Creel kill too many kids to move forward, but seeing an anikin. But this reiteration

that Vecna, Henry says, one says a bunch of times in these stretch of episodes of like, they're not gone 11, they're still with me in here. This to me feels like the key to like how we can have Max in season five is like, you know, he talks about like all the people he's killed

being inside of his mind. And so sort of like this idea of like, is that where Max? Is Max trapped in her own mind or is she somehow back in Vecna's mind? And so like, and I'm encouraged to think this by the fact that they've paired Sadie Sink and Jamie Campbell-Bauer and all of the like sort of promo stuff. So my idea is that probably they work together a lot in season five. So like I think this is where we're going to see Max is like inside of Henry's mind. So yeah, which is which could be really fun, you know.

That would be great. Who else? Ted Wheeler? I don't know. Lucas and Max get to go to the movies. That's what matters most to me. Hop and Joyce get to take a shower and then have sex, and Lucas and Max get to go to the movies on a Friday.

That's what we want for everyone. I think number one on my Death Watch. Yeah. He's actually Jonathan Byers. It's either Will or Jonathan. That's mostly because of the trailer, because there's so many, like, Nancy and Jonathan, like, tearful. And if that paves the way for Steve and Nancy,

if we just like knock one leg out of this triangle, you know, sort of thing. I don't want that. I would like for Jonathan Byers to live. But he's actually the person I'm like other than like Will 11, you know, sort of thing. He's the person I'm most worried about as like a potential death. Huh. I think the one that I would have the hardest time coping with of any of the characters would be Dustin. Dustin, yeah.

I just don't think. I don't think... I don't think it would be accepted. I don't think they would do that to us. Okay. I hope not. Thank you. I'm going to hold you to it.

Is Argyle in season five? I don't think he is. I don't know. That actor, by the way, like, got really shredded for a role. I just saw him on Instagram recently in a way that, like... Anyway, I applaud all of his discipline. That's what I'll say. That's a nice thing to say.

But like it bums me out a little bit because I think he looks like great as Argyle But it made me think that maybe he's not in season five But I don't know the answer so hopefully we get like a little purple palm tree delight memory at some point then You know something maybe someone's wearing his pants to honor him The way the way when the when the when the Surfer Boy pizza van shows up and like our Heroes and Hawkins are like and we're waiting for them to see Mike and a 11th but the first legs out of the van are Argyles, unmistakable pants.

Really funny. Perfect. Perfect stuff. Okay. Anything else? I just want to hit a couple listener things really quickly. Let's do it. One of our listener, Nicole, hit us with, like, a really fascinating.

I love a color theory email, and we were talking about the way in which 11 in season five is dressed in, like, dressed as Josh Bowling characters from Goody's brand, but, like, her shorts and her headband are, like, swapped the red and the blue. Anyway, Nicole had such interesting insights from art history perspective about Mary and Jesus and how blue and red are used to denote those two characters. Anyway, so I'll be on that watch. I think that's really interesting. But also, to your point, Jedi blue, Sith red.

I mean, just like, let's just keep our eyes on the reds and the blues. Why not? Lauren has a, I thought, a really interesting theory. Lauren says, my theory goes that this season Will gets the opportunity to go back to the night he went missing to stop himself from disappearing. Maybe as some deal with Vecna, therefore, preventing Mike and Elle from ever meeting, his distance from the friend group. And if someone from Will's life, like his mother, Jonathan, or Lucas, or Dustin or Mike die to prevent that in doing so, Will inadvertently dooms the timelines Hawkins, because causing it to be swallowed by the gate and dimension X, creating the upside down as we know it. She talked a lot about physics in this, but this idea of like, I do think it would fit with the themes of the dangers of being unable to let go of the past and prior regrets.

who would also explain why the upside down is stuck on the night Will went missing. So I don't know. I just like this idea of like a temptation for Will, someone who's like vulnerable to temptation, this idea of like a time travel duo. This is very, I can't talk about it, season three of Buffy, careful what you wish for sort of thing. So like, I don't know, an alternative history of like what happened

if Will had never gone missing, I think would be a fun thing to explore. But I thought that was a fun idea from Lauren. Yeah, that would be really interesting. interesting. I think especially the, it's one in way in which I think the nature of the volume drop could actually be helpful. You know, like in when you could give us a glimpse of something like that and still have the opportunity then to do other things inside of the season elsewhere. Fascinating. I'm really, I, you know, as much as I like make fun of the way that Netflix chops up its seasons, as you know, I'm anti-binge. I'm really excited for these three drops because. it will give us time between to theorize, which is like, part of what made season four so exciting

is like, I mean, this is what's fun about television is you work up your excitement about something. So like, we'll get our little like drop, our sizable drop in Thanksgiving and then like get to think about it for several weeks altogether until, you know, Christmas and then New Year. Last but not least, I will just say this email from our listener, Dan, which feels like a lock. but I think Dan wrote, I think the core four will be primarily driving

but at some pivotal point late in the series they're going to have to dust off the bikes and we're getting one final wide shot of the four kids riding their bikes

won't be a dry eye in the audience. That feels like it's true. Did you see that they're doing like a cosplay bike ride to promote stranger things?

Incredible. They're like, I think in LA, but maybe around the country, I don't know, but it's just sort of like come in your stranger things cosplay and ride bikes

together as like a way to get excited for season five, which I think is really fun. Yeah, we should do it. I hope that it's six of them, riding bikes. I hope that Max and Elle are with them. It's not all about stupid boys, Mallory.

Maybe they're at the mall. Women be shopping. That's true. That's true. Maybe they're reading a Wonder Woman comic or going to the gap. That's true. That's entirely possible.

Okay. Well, that's it. The rewatch, the revisited Stranger Things Pod. are complete, which is sad. It's been so fun to revisit the show. Can't believe that season five is only a couple weeks away.

Wild stuff. This is our last Stranger Things podcast before, but we might have some other Stranger Things content, so keep your eye on the socials, etc. for anything from us on, like, Theory Corner. We still welcome your theories. Havits and Dragots at gmail.com, please.

And I can't wait to do more stranger things with you. Same. I'm thrilled. Absolutely thrilled. I love you on your good days. I love you on your bad days.

I love you with your powers. I love you with that, your powers. Thank you. Thank you today to Carlos Chiraboga, as always, for producing this podcast. To Jade Whaley, for joining us today to help with this podcast. John Richter and Arjuna Ramgo Powell for production supervision and Jomey Adanon on the social. Loaded. Loaded squad here today in the upside down.

My goodness. We have had a blast revisiting Stranger Things and we cannot wait to be back in the upside down and back in Hawkins in just a few weeks for season five. We'll see you then. And unlike Max and Lucas, we will be going to the movies this Friday. See you there. Bye. All pay off your home, travel for life, drive a Ferrari.

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