House of R - The 2026 Winter Mailbag

Episode Date: March 4, 2026

From books to ‘A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms’ to ‘Wonder Man,’ the House of R mailbag is here. Jo and Mal answer all of your burning questions about the content you love!(00:00) Intro(01:21) Programming Reminders(05:39) Is Ser Arlan an Actual Knight?(11:23) A ‘Game of Thrones’ Movie Is in Development(15:43) Book Recommendations - 'The Will of the Many'(23:48) Book Recommendations - 'The Everlasting'(25:11) Book Recommendations - 'Katabasis”'(31:04) 2026 Book Recommendations(39:09) Anticipated Book Adaptations(43:28) Underrated Show or Performance(56:12) Who Will Win ‘Survivor 50’ and Who Will Cameo on ‘White Lotus’?(01:07:19) ‘Pride and Prejudice’ on Netflix Casting(01:12:09) ‘The Vampire Lestat’ Coverage(01:17:18) Would You Rather Hang Out With The Doctor or Rocky?(01:20:35) Thoughts on the ‘Traitors’ Finale(01:32:00) Thoughts on ‘Wonder Man’(01:42:46) Most Exciting Thing About Joanna’s MoveHosts: Mallory Rubin and Joanna RobinsonProducer: Carlos ChiribogaSocial: Jomi AdeniranAdditional Production Support: Arjuna Ramgopowell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome back to House of Our. I'm Joanna Robinson. That is Mallory Rubin. We are no longer in the same room, but our hearts are in the same place. Always. And we're here today, very excitedly, to answer your questions. It's a very special House of Our mailbag episode. We're getting into all of your questions.

Actually, some of your questions, comments and concerns. A mere fraction of your questions. Just a tip of the iceberg of your questions right after this. This episode is brought to you by Borris Head. What if we told you the taste of deep fried turkey is now available at your local deli? Well, Borishead just did that. Bursting with flavor, perfectly seasoned with that indulgent taste that usually means pointing your whole day around it.

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As Beth and Rip build a future together, peace will have to wait as they face corruption, danger, and a ruthless rival ranch willing to protect its secrets at all costs. Legacy is a beautiful thing, but only if it survives. Dutton Ranch starring Colehouser, Kelly Riley, Annette Benning and Ed Harris, now streaming on Paramount Plus. All right, Mallory Rubin, the bad babies just flooded the inbox of the questions this this week. It's just an incredible showing from them. Really, really incredible stuff.

We will not get to every single question. We wish we could. We'll just do it again in a couple months. We love a mailback. Oh, brilliant. Why not? We're saving them all. I just hid some rows in our spreadsheet.

I didn't delete a single thing. So, yeah. They're still here waiting for us should we want to return to them. But you guys hit a lot of similar topics. So we'll be getting close to a lot of your questions. here today. Before we get into those questions, said questions, Mallory Rubin. I don't want to jinx was coming up later in this week by saying what it is. I'm feeling very superstitious about it for some reason. So I'm just going to say, we have an episode later this

week that I'm very excited about that allegedly has a special guest on it that will allegedly prepare us in one way or another for two of our most anticipated movies this year. Do you think that all of that's accurate? And that will also continue, resume, revive, resuscitate a series. Triangulate those clues as you wish. What could have been. Here's the thing. Here's the problem with what we have done in order to avoid a Paul of Fame situation

where we say specifically we're doing something and then we don't. We have definitely implied to the bad babies that we're doing the Paul of Fame. That's what everybody's going to think. And that's not what it is. Is that what that sounds like? That's my worry. That's my worry. It's not the Paul of Fame.

No, it's not a Paul of Fame. We're going to do the Paul of Fame when Dune Part 3 comes out. Maybe. Allegedly. Probably. It's not Paul of Fame. No, this next podcast will, it will be set in space, though, you know. So that also is a clue that could make it sound like it's a great clue.

That's a great clue. Yep. There's an un... Timothy Shalame is involved. He is. That actually is a good clue that I think really will allow people to zero. in. Yeah. Okay. Great. There we did it. We did it together. What else is on the horizon for us in front of that? We'll figure it out as we go. We've got some ideas. We do. But Pratchez-Tel-Mary is

like coming up around the corner. We got a lot of prep we want to do for that pod. We got a lot of questions about that particular story. That's sort of like really crowding the halls of my mind right now is my anticipation for everyone to see Pratchett-Hell Mary. Mallory-Rubin, how can folks keep track of what Mary? may not be coming on the feed later this week, let alone in the future weeks. Here's what I would recommend. Whether or not you're able to say for our clues, our programming clues, is follow the pod. Follow House of R on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast.

You can watch video episodes of House of R in the Spotify app, incredible stuff. We're here. One of us is here in our beautiful new studio, but we're both here in spirit. We were here together last week. We will be here again together soon. And you can watch our pots. that. You can also watch House of R on the Ringerverse YouTube channel where you can also, of course, see full video episodes of the Midnight Boys. Beep-Beo! Be-boo! While you're at it,

follow the Ringervus on the social media platform if you're choosing. Now more than ever, I'm not here to tell you what that is. But wherever you want to be, we'll be there with you. And obviously, it's a mailback, so you know this already, but the inbox, it remains open. Hobbits and Dragons at gmail.com. Keep the emails coming. Let us know what you think of Project Hail Mary when you get to watch it. Are you checking out Daredevil Season 2? Mall Shadow Lord is coming in April. The Boys? You know, are you already just looking ahead to The Odyssey, perhaps? Keep those emails coming? Are we looking ahead to The Odyssey? We are. Later this week? Perhaps. Possibly, in a way? In a way? In its own way? Okay. So listen,

yeah. Y'all sent us a lot of great emails. Y'all. Look at you. You all. Wow. You all everybody sent us a lot of great emails. Did I tell you that? I was at a play in L.A. last week. And there were not, anyway, there just have to be a lot of Famos there. Sure.

And Hurley himself from Lost, Jorge Garcia, walked past me. And my friend, without even like, we didn't even make eye contact. We didn't even say anything. She's just like, oh, you're in heaven right now. I'm like, I am. man. Hurley's here. So exciting. I was just in his proximity. I didn't talk to him at all. But what a proximity to the end? To just soak up his aura and his essence. Oh, my God. No one has better vibes than he. Truly. All right. Let's, should we, should we just start answering

some of these questions. Let's do it. A quick little seasonal mail bag. We love a zippy, a zippy bag. Tight little bag. Phrasing, tight little bag. All right. I want to start with the question that we got the most emails about. And I should say, We got emails about this even before the mailbag prompt. We got emails about this related to the finale. Yes. I personally am so unenamored of this theory that I did not bring it up on the finale pod. Interesting.

Okay. The people have been champing in the bit for us to talk about it. So we should at least talk about it. Yes. Which is many, many folks are asking. If in the television series in The Seven Kingdoms and the novellas, if Dunk is unwilling to knight Raymond Fossaway because he himself is not a knight. Is it possible that Sir Arlen Penitree did not night dunk because Sir Arlin himself was never a knight?

Yeah. That a lot of people are asking this question. You said that like folks in your own idea of life were texting you. Some friends are texting. I'm in a group chat that's been popping off the last few days about this. and I was almost going to say, like, hey, a couple of my friends sent me up about this. Should we consider it for the mailbag? And then got into the spreadsheet and just said several for the same question. Many, many people are asking. This is a very currently very popular theory.

Tell me your thoughts about it. So I am open to this. I don't feel strongly one way or another. The thing that would incline me to receive this warmly if it winds up being true that Arlen himself was never properly knighted is basically what you already said. Thematically, that parallel is interesting to me that we have seen Dunk reluctant to to knight, Raymond, to knight somebody else if he does not believe that he would then basically be properly knighting somebody, like that there's a, if not morally, if not in terms

of his ability to live by honor and he is like this pure knight, right? that there would be like a taint in the in the pipeline there. The line. Yes, right? And so if Dunk is reluctant and maybe, because we talked about this in our Night of of Seven Kingdoms pods, like, and Dunk asks this, dunk voicing the question, like, why did you never knight me, gives it a little bit more oomph, I think, as something that is at least like an interesting theory corner, hold them loosely, as Joe always likes to say.

But it's at least an interesting, like, prompt, I think, for theorizing. maybe that's why Arlen was reluctant to actually knight dunk, like a similar hesitancy because he was not himself properly knighted. I definitely don't need that to be true. I had frankly, like, not considered it as a possibility before all of this theorizing started pop it up over the last a few days and weeks, as you noted. But I do think thematically that parallel is like a shared tie between Arlen and Dunk would be interesting. And certainly on the thematic front, the idea that Arlen, if he had not been formerly properly knighted previously, that it didn't matter, just as it doesn't matter for Dunk, that he chose to live like a true knight, right?

A knight who remembered his vows. I think that that parallel is like, is interesting to me. I think you could swing it the other way and say that there's a risk maybe of diluting then some of the potency of where we are with Dunk. That's the very word I was going to use. Tell me. To me, it dilutes dunk story. to be like, it's just a copy paste of what happened with Sir Arlen.

And like, though I really value this idea of like Sir Arlenz, Hedge Knight philosophy, passed down to Dunk, is the true essence of knighthood. And you don't need an official ceremony to be a true knight. You just need to remember your vows, as you said. And the Hedge Knight's way is the true way because you're not behold into various Lord, you're behold into your own moral code. All of that is really potent and interesting to me.

I just, I think it just diminishes Dunk's experience. to be like, this is just what happened before with Arlen. And it feels to me like one of those like theories that feels very exciting to people because they feel like they've caught something out. They've figured something out. And like, you know, who among us? You know me. I love a I've figured something out theory.

I just don't really like it personally. But everyone's allowed to have their theories and there's nothing wrong with it. And it's not one of those theories where I'm like, this is factually implausible. Like it is definitely plausible. could be true. I just don't happen to like it personally, but I'll be curious if this makes his way to George and if George has something to say about it or if I were has something to say about it, you know.

Yeah. But I think I prefer the story if Sarlin was knighted, chose this more vagabond lifestyle for himself and that Dunk was never knighted and this is his story. And we have some thoughts about which we can't get into in a non-spoiler way. no sense in ushering a spoiler into a mailbag or anything like that. But we have some thoughts about how that story might all play out for Dunk in the future. And I like that just being a really unique sort of story that we're getting. So that's where I feel about it. Keep the Night of the Seven Kingdom's emails coming. We're not interested in ceasing our discussion

of this show. You know, we're a year away for getting season two. We'll talk about it every opportunity we get between now and then. People are desponded that it's over. They're just like so bummed. And even though like, you know, industry had an incredible season finale on Sunday, but I still felt the absence of that like Sunday night, you know, not at the seven kingdom's excitement. Me too. Yeah. We got some Thrones news today. We're like recording and this is hot off the press. So by the time this podcast is published, we could have more information. Probably not worth talking about for more than 30 seconds as a result of that. But they've, there's a, you know, a movie officially in development, right? Thrones movie.

Bo Willemann. Bo. Our guy, Bo. Andor. This is exciting. I mean, or is it? I don't know. Do we want Thrones movies? Do we just want Thrones to remain TV? They have not yet said what this story will be. That could be announced anytime. The big theory going around is that it's a A-Gone's Conquest movie because they've talked about that as an idea before. You know, Bo Willemann and it's worth remembering before he worked on Andor, like, more famously, was created. of House of Cards or the American version of House of Cards, also a playwright and, you know, et cetera, et cetera.

For Bo, Agon's Conquest is not necessarily what I want from a Bo Willemann movie. I want more, more Pallus Intrigue. Like, that's what he's very good at. So that's not who I would pick for an Agon's Conquest movie. But, you know, he's great. And, you know, I'm excited by the prospect of it. But like... Throwing us out in real time.

Let me know anything else. All right. Because my first thought also was at Gons Conquest, since we have most recently heard, you know, that talked about as a film adaptation. We had spent a lot of the Night of the Seven Kingdom season discussing because it is stitched throughout as a reference point. And then, of course, we glimpse Red Grassfield, the first Blackfire were going. And talking about, okay, well, when and how will we see that in full? Now, if the Night of the Seven Kingdoms is a success, which it undeniably is. Which it is.

Right. Then, and we have the confidence as a result of that that we will continue on with the story is a, does it make more sense to give us the context and the backdrop of the first Blackfire Rebellion as a tandem timeline in terms of how we are, where we're receiving it, film, rather than saying, when are we going to ever get the Blackfire show? And then in the TV landscape, we were just constantly weaving in and out of timelines. We started here with Game of Thrones. If you want to know what I mean by here, you got to watch the video podcast.

Because my hand is just in the air. I'm just doing some Joanna Robinson, TM, arm map, TM work right here. We start with Game of Thrones. Then we go to House of the Dragon, right? Then we have a night of the seven kingdoms. Then we're going to go to Aegon's Conquest. What if we just stayed right here for a minute and did Blackfire, 13 years before a night of the seven kingdoms?

I think that's so smart. And that's spectacle of film plus palace intrigue. To your point. Once we cast like Blood Raven and, you know, and then we could have like if we cast someone exciting for like bitter steel or, you know, any of the other players, Damon Blackfire, you know, to have the consistency of like this is who we see in a flashback, but we've cast someone kind of juicy because we cast them also in the film. So they have a whole film.

You know, we're able to, like, cast someone kind of, you know, I'm not saying it's Henry Cavill, but like, we're able to cast someone, like, quite. But like, Henry, you know, a movie star because they get a, but they get a movie. Yeah. And then they'll show up and do the, the flashbacks for Night of the Seven Kingdom. I love this. I would be very curious to hear, I, here's why I would be surprised. I think it's a great idea. And I think Casey and everyone else at Warner Brothers before that whole place lights on fire should listen to you and pick up that idea.

I think the reason I'm slightly skeptical of it. it is like I think this is the kind of idea they would have once they see how well and I of the Seven Kingdoms was received in its back half and for the Bo Willemann News to reach us it feels too soon, too close to you know what I mean? Like they have to have been in conversation with him for a while before it hits the rap.com today, you know, so that's why I'm skeptical about it, but I think your idea is better and right and they should just pivot to doing that. So I think. I love it. Great. We've agreed. We've solved it.

Great. We fixed it. We fixed it. All right. Speaking of source text, we got several book questions that I'm going to try to mash into sort of like one book section here. Great. Let's do it. Because the bad babies are constantly looking for reading recommendations, et cetera, et cetera.

As we tease, I want to start here. As we teased on the previous podcast when we said we were doing this mailbag episode, you have now read and finished The Will of the Many, James Islington's book, The Strength of Few is a sequel that is out that you have not, I believe, started yet, but you have your eyes on it. So without maybe, like, and then we got a ton of emails, ton of emails from bad babies

who said they have read the will of the many in the last year or both books in the last year because we've been sort of talking around it on the pod. Our pals that cram wrote in to the pod about it, like all this sort of stuff like that. So tell me what you thought of the will of the many. I know you liked it, but tell me your thoughts about it. But maybe without spoiling all the details of it for folks who want to still read it for themselves.

Yes, I'm reluctant to say too much because one of the things I enjoyed about it the most is that there are quite a few surprises along the way. And I fell in that aspect of the reading experience to be quite energizing. There are a number of moments where it was like something has happened that I did not expect and that's exciting. So you would recommend it the book to me. Kram had recommended it. Usually if one of you recommends something, I know it's going to be good when both of you do, I know it's a guaranteed banger, right?

So that was exciting. Listen, this is, it's been a minor controversy in my life. I read this as a part of a side book club. You know about my prime book club. Yeah, I know. It's been a, it's, I know, I know. I think my first question is, why am I not in your other book club? You can be in both of them.

Okay. So I have a now long running since like year one of COVID, remote Zoom book club with my my best pales, my college palace, my Syracuse palace. We call it pulp because it is both an orange pun and paper and also palsy. United is in literary pleasure. I have to say. Yeah. I was wondering why you read the will of the many.

Usually when you tell me you read a book, it's because either is for work or is for your book club because you're very, very busy. You have a lot going on. And so when you were like, I read The Will of the Many, I was like, man, she finally got so excited by one of my bookwrecks. Yes. It's not exactly the case. Figuring out like how to, because the pulp book club schedule and then just rereading or reading things for work, those are kind of the primary. You know, that's a lot across the year. And then I look for spots where I can just either sometimes one of my pals in the primary book club and pulp will do like a little, a little, we call it squad battle after reading fourth wing.

and that's probably not what it's called. I can't even remember. My brain is like mush. But fourth wing, it's just, it feels like 800 years ago that I read that, even though it was like two years ago. And so every now and then, I look for an opportunity to read something else.

And a couple of my good pals, both of whom listen to this podcast, they love books. And we talk about books a lot. And there was an exciting moment where we thought, what if we read a book or two together? And I threw out the will of the many.

with them, with Stephen Drew because one of my other friends in the prime book club had already read it and had talked us about it and so I considered it

ineligible for that book club because Taylor had already read it. When I felt it was important to tell the book club that I was going to be doing this. Cheating on them. And I was mercilessly annihiless.

by my closest friends in the world because this will surprise nobody to hear, including you. I had previously, I had some strong feedback for Katie, one of my other dear friends when she went on a side book club journey. And so, you know... It sounds familiar. Yeah. This is just, it's all.

Anyway, I had a great time reading The Will of the Many. I had a great time reading it and discussing it last week at dinner with Steve and Drew. and we will be continuing our side book club. We will be. So I'll have to figure out how to navigate it all. They're huge readers and big fans of genre storytelling in particular, and so it's a very exciting thing.

The Everlasting, which you'll talk about more, I think, in a few minutes, I had picked, we alternate in pulp. It's five of us, we take turns picking, and then every now and then if there's consensus, we do a group pick. And so when Everlasting was announced, I said, I'm going to pick that as one of my picks in the future. have not gotten to it because it's not my turn yet, but it's coming up very soon. Anyway, well of the many, you and Cram had recommended it.

My pal Taylor said it was fantastic. I knew I would like it. I thought it was really conceptually riveting, like the idea. The world building, the magic systems. Yeah, these, like, the kind of like Greco-Roman setting. But the magic systems, you had, my memory, I was trying to remember when you told me about it in the first place, and I don't, this might be apocryphal. Not sure if I've mentioned in the last 10 minutes that my,

brain as much, but my memory is that you told me about it during and or when we were talking about systems and oppressive regimes and also like the idea of rebelling against that kind of oppressive power, but also when there's some aspect of like complicity in society, that was my memory of how you had first talked to me about it. So it's very intrigued by the concept and I think I'm really interested to see where it goes moving forward. Pacing-wise, because it's a really long book and it moves without spoiling the specifics in and out of different settings, like locations and thus contextual character sets. And so some of those stretches I just enjoyed more than others. And like, you know, I love a magic school, so that was all very fun.

And Viz is a really interesting main character who is very, very good at everything. And that's like one of my few notes is that he's a Mary Sue. Viz is a Mary as a Mary Sue. Yeah. And so that just that saps a tiny, tiny, tiny bit of dramatic tension for me because I'm always confident he's going to find a way to solve whatever the conundrum of the moment is. That said, again, I think just the kind of lay of the land was really philosophically stimulating. And I think it's a good time for people to read a book like this. I'm really interested to see narratively based on how the first book ends, I won't spoil, like structurally where that takes us in the future. And also there's a wolf pal, which is just, you know, extremely my shit.

I will say for your, when you finish, you sort of like floated a guess about like what the structure of the second book would be. And I don't think, I mean, it's just the structure of the book. So I don't think it's a spoiler to say that guess is pretty accurate. And as a result, and again, I'm trying to be as vague as possible, I would say some of the side characters get a shorter shrift in the second book in a way that, like, like made it less of a success for me. And Zach Cram agreed with me.

Jacobi agreed with me. Like everyone who's read Strength of the Few is like, it's not as good as the Will of the Many, but it's still like quite good. And I'm invested and curious to see where it goes next. I believe the reason I got into the Will of the Many in the first place is because when I was like a more active participant in Reader's Recommend, I was trying to do like a new book every single month.

And I was just really tracking what was popping on the fantasy book, subreddit, which is like an excellent place to track sort of like what's new, what people are excited about, et cetera. So that's how I got into that book in the first place. That was one of my Ringover's Recommend's books. And I've been really excited to see how adoration for this book has grown. And again, especially hearing from all the bad babies, we had a lot of listeners say they picked it up because we had sort of talked around it or about it on the podcast. That's really exciting. I will put like the full push of my support also behind Alex Harrow's book Everlasting, which Mallory said she's going to be reading

in the future in her Pulp Book Club because I just think it's like one of the best. We talked about on the Valentine's Day episode, but I just think it's one of the best books I've read in a really, really long time. You know, for fans of if you're, if you're, you know, one of the people who listen to our podcast, mostly when we're talking about Game of Thrones, like this is so Thrones coded, but it's a time travel time, you, why me? really wrap your head and not's kind of time travel story, which I love, like a puzzles. You're trying to follow the trails and the ripples of the impact of what time travel can do.

In that way, it reminded me a bit of to say nothing of the dog, a Connie Willis book that I really love. But this lady knight and this sort of like weedy historian and their sort of adventures through time and dragons and you know, villainous queens and all these other things together and sort of like what makes a legend, what makes a story, what makes a good story. It's got all this like meat on the bone

that I can't wait to hear your thoughts on it when you get there. I'm really excited for that. I can't remember if it's my pick next or if I'm too away, but it'll be something I read this spring for sure. I also know that we both read Catapesis by R. Quang, which was like a book we had talked about being excited about.

We haven't really got into it in detail, but we both read it and loved it. Anything you want to say specifically about Catapacus? That was my last pick for the Pulp Book Club, in fact. And I thought it was a strong pick for Book Club, because it's a really fun one not only to read, but to discuss. I thought I had a blast reading this. I mean, we were so excited. I remember when we first saw kind of like the blurb, the logline for it and this idea of this mashup of magic school, fantasy, dark academia with like mythology and the let the, we love world mythology nerds.

So like that incorporation was so interesting. I, again, this is one that I am very reluctant to get into particular song because I don't want to spoil it for people. But I will say reading it in real time, the layers of exploration and questing, the different aspects of hell that we journey into with our characters, I just thought like I could have read 4,000 pages of that stuff. like actually when we get some of the deeper layers and we don't get to actually explore it as much detail. I was like, no, I just love this shit. I want more of it. I thought that was great.

I loved the way that we moved in and out of the present timeline. And when we were presented with some insights into past events, whether or not you have any relationship to pursuing these advanced degrees and the specific aspects of the really like

cutthroat realm of that level of academic pursuits. I think there's something very relatable for us and people like us in a character like Alice. And, you know,

I'm in this picture and I don't like it. One of those moments. Yeah, there was a lot of that. But this idea of like really, you know, where do you, what do you do and where do you go? Where do you allow yourself to go if you are trying to be the best at something was like,

it was a fascinating portrait of that. The thing that, like, stuck with me and really going to be careful here because I think this is the most likely to inadvertently be a spoiler, so I'll speak in kind of vague terms. The thing that stuck with me the most, it has stuck with me the most

in the subsequent months since I read it in a way that I really appreciate because this is something that we talk about a lot and I really enjoy when a story not just asks or invites us, but, like, requires us to think about this. not assuming that you know what somebody else is going through. Like, that's a really big part of this story.

And I think it explores that in a pretty expert way. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. I agree. And so, you know, we've got two main characters who are traveling through various circles of hell together to sort of rival PhD.

candidates and in pursuit of their advisor who has, you know, passed over. And they need their letters of recommendation. That's like the premise. Their relationships, the various layers of mythology, all the things that you talked about is there. When we get into peeling back the onion, the layer of the onion, I would say on Alice, more specifically, but on both of them, that sort of like you never know what someone's going through, a thing that you're, you're, we're in Alice's POV for.

most of it and then we get some more information. But like, but even though we're inside of her POV, Rebecca, the author has done, I think, a really good job of hiding the ball on certain things for like, you know, pacing what, it's hard to do that when you're inside someone's head to then hide from the reader sort of aspects of that person because they already know everything. And so it's, it's about going through hell and having to confront and peel back your, the layers of your own onion as you go through this, like, sort of journey. But like, I will never forget. I was cleaning my kitchen.

I think I was like literally on the floor, cleaning like the floor of my kitchen when I was listening to the chapters of this book that take it from like good to masterpiece level, in my opinion. And I just was like, I was just stunned. So like I think if you pick up this book and you're like, this is a pretty good like adventure through hell.

You know, I've read his dark materials. I know, you know, like I get it. And then I would say I think there's, a much greater depth in the story coming that for me will stick with me forever because it's a very complicated portrait of a very complicated power dynamics and a very complicated portrait of a young woman inside of a punishing environment and it doesn't make excuses and it just presents just like I think an extremely complicated portrait of of someone and the way in which represents, Becca has talked about this book and the way in which, like,

she's a bit of a self-insert character for Alice. And so, like, what is she examining about her? I don't want to make presumption about her own life, but, like, how personal is this? Is intriguing to me? The qualities in Peter that are paralleled to her husband and all the sort of stuff like that. I just, like, I think she did an incredible job with this.

So I loved the fantasy. I could have, I'm with you. I could have taken, like, even more with a lot. sort of like fantasy moments inside of the we kind of abandoned that a bit at the end. But in terms of like where it decided, the depth it decides to plum, I thought it was really extraordinary. So that would be my review of that book. And then just sort of like, are there any books coming out in 2026 that you're, whether you plan to book club them or not that you're excited about? I want to hear your 2026. I'm excited as I always. I'm not.

to, this is not necessarily House of our affair, but, you know, there's a new George Sonders, so that's always an event. Again, shout out Syracuse now and always. I, this came out at the end of last, or this came out actually, I don't know when in 2020. This is a 2025 book, and it's not a genre book, so it's not a House of Art book. But I literally finished this at 1 a.m. last night and have to mention it because it's just mere hours ago since I finished reading. I tore through this book in just a couple days. I couldn't put it down. This is my friend Suzanne picked this for Book Club. The correspondent, Virginia Evans, which was on like a lot of the best of the best of the year list last year. I thought this was really wonderful and like very affecting.

First of all, it's like formally quite interesting. It's as the title, the correspondent might indicate, it is written through a series of letters. And I really like when a novel plays with form like that, it also just makes it so propulsive because each like chapters a couple pages and then you're like, well, oh, I just have this one, next one will take me three minutes, and then before you know it, it's 3 a.m. and you've been reading for hours. The protagonist, Sybil, is like a just instantly indelible character to me, and I thought, without getting into any of the particulars, that this was a really profound and poignant, and I think, I was shocked to learn after finishing it that this was Virginia Evans' first book, that this is

her debut novel, because it has a wisdom. to me of like a fully lived life. And, uh, I thought that it was incredibly, incredibly got wrenching and like full of sorrow, but also just drenched in hope and possibility. I really thought it was lovely. It's quite short. Uh, I would recommend it, again, not a, not a sci-fi or fantasy tale. Um, but really thought it was wonderful. And I think I'll be, I'll be thinking. I was texting my friends. I'm like, I already finished this. Can we move book club up like two weeks? They're like, none of us have started. Chill. But that was just, that was great. And I can't remember if I mentioned this on the last mailbag we did when we were talking about some, some books. I honestly can't

recall if I mentioned this when we, when we lasted some, but I read Orbital, uh, pretty recently and the Samantha Harvey 2024 Booker winner. That was dynamite. Gorgeous. The pros in that book. maybe not for everybody in terms of the, again, kind of structurally interesting playing with form a bit in terms of your ability to, like, immerse in the character. This was one of the most beautifully written sci-fi books that I have read in sometime. The language is just stunning. Joe, is there a new Cord of Thorns and Roses book coming out? I saw stuff on Instagram like, oh, there was a photo of a notebook with a clue,

and it's like, are we getting book six, maybe six and seven? Is that a thing? Is that like actually happening this year? Is it more of a whisper for a future time? So I think the like, you know, is a new Taylor Swift album dropping sort of obsessives are in the mix here. But there has been a clue. So Alice Cooper teased that she's going to have Sarah J. Moss on the Color Daddy podcast. She teased that like yesterday, I think.

And so they think it's going to be announced on that podcast. Oh my goodness. The release date. That is probably going to be this year. I think the manuscript has allegedly been done since, like, the beginning of last year. So they've been, like, in edits. They haven't announced a release date. The last Akitar book came out in 2021.

So this would be, like, a huge deal if we got number six here this year. Because she has other series, you know, Crescent City and, like, other things that she works on. But, yeah. Yeah. So we might know as soon as, like, next time we record, we might know when a new Akitar book coming out. But number six. Sounds like it's about to be time to break the whiteboards back out. That's what I'm hearing. Exciting. Exciting. I mean, we're getting another opinion book at any point. In terms of what I'm like, what I know is coming and I'm very excited about. Yes. My number one,

without question, I like squealed when I saw the book trailer on Instagram is Lee Bardugo's third Alex Stern book, Dead Beat. So that's Ninth House and Hellbent were the first two. And Hellbent. By the way, if you're like, oh, academics go to hell to rescue someone. Hellbent did it before catapist, but that's okay. Ninth House is one of my, I love Ninth House and Hell Bent so much. And Alex Stern, the main character of this series, plays a young woman who can see dead people, who is very like magically inclined, has had a kind of quite traumatic life due to that, of course. but is like sort of drafted into this like secret cabal of magic at Yale.

It reminds me a lot. I think we talked about it maybe. It reminds me a lot of the, the dim and lizard patriarchy episode of Buffy, this sort of like how the rich, how the skull and crossbones is what it's called Skull and Bones secret society at Yale. It's like what if that were like magic and we were like sacrificing people in order to like beat the stock market or whatever. So this like really,

really cool system of like magic and secret societies in Yale. And then Alex Stern is this sort of like not to the manner born interloper inside of this world, but she's drafted in because her magical skills are so potent. And then Darlington is the name of like her sort of like advisor kind of character. And he's like, it's just very exciting. Like the fact that we're getting a third book I am like so excited about. But I really recommend 9th House and Hellbent. Absolutely incredible books. And I'm really excited for Deadbeat. That was coming out later this year. Another series that's getting a third this year is the Robert Jackson Bennett series. Tainted Cup was the first one, which I talked about a lot. When it came out, drop of corruption came out this last year, and then a trade of blood is the third one.

And these are like a very sort of like very magical Holmes and Watson-esque mystery novels, but set in this fantastical world. And I just, I love these books. I think the role building is incredible. I think the characters are so fun. And I'm just, I'm really, really, really excited that like two of my favorite series are getting third installments this year is like very, very exciting for me. Emily St. John Mandel, who we love, Station 11 has a book exit party coming out this year. And I just want to read the description to you. Set in 2031 where America is at war with itself. Who knew? But the Republic of California has been signed. into existence and in Los Angeles, the curfew has been lifted and, quote, tonight everyone is going to party. The synopsis continues, Ari, recently out of prison and her friend Gloria, find themselves

amid these celebrations as a new age dawns, but there are people at this particular party who shouldn't be here. Something is very wrong. So, like, Emily St. John Mendel's established track record of being able to write about, you know, dystopian futures and how he's. human psychology plays into that, this idea of like the danger inside of a celebration. I don't know. All of that is just like really, really paying something to me.

I'm excited for that one. Yeah, there's also, I know that I think Cram has been trying to get us to read the Fondali books. And I have not yet done that. But the last contract of Isako, which is Fondali's new book that's coming out this year, people are really, really excited about that one. So that's on my list to get into Fondali. And then in terms of like adaptations that are coming. Yeah.

You know, Dune Messiah and the magician's nephew and, you know, the book of magic, practical magic too, we all talked about on our hype draft. So like, you know, book adaptations, we're very excited about Project Tell Mary, obviously. Sunrise on the Reaping. I'm actually kind of excited about that as I was like mixed pause on songbirds and snakes. But sunrise on the reaping, everyone, which is like, the Hamich prequel, people have been responding really positive.

People in my life have been responding really positively to that book and are very excited about this movie. So I'm interested. Maybe this is when I get back into Hunger Games. It's been a minute. One of my favorite memories, this is 100 years ago, back when we lived in New York, before we even moved to L.A.

I read The Hunger Games. I really liked all of the books. I recommended them to Adam. He was a pain in the ass about it, is always. And then, so every now and then he'll, like, surprise me by revealing in some way that he has read, something that I had been asking him to read. I was, like, at, like, a midnight release for a movie.

I got home really late from something. It was, like, 3 a.m. And this, again, this was when we lived in New York, so I was young. I had energy. I would say I was a woman about town, but that's not true. I probably went out, like, 12 total times in the five and a half years I lived there, but this was one of them. Your joints didn't make that disturbing cracking noise that they make now.

I've always done that. Okay. They've always done that. Okay. And I was, I can't remember what I asked him, but I was like, you know, hi or I'm home or something. And I asked him some question. And whatever I said allowed his response to be, there is no district 12. And that's how he revealed that he had.

Yeah. And he was like, oh, yeah. Because I really in particular liked catching fire. So that was very exciting. Yeah. Oh, that's so fun. Okay. Maybe this is maybe my.

Catching fire. good. That was great. I mean, I gotta say, like, Battle of Longbirds and Snakes, as much as I made fun of, like, the title of that movie, like, I didn't hate that movie. I actually, like, kind of liked it. I haven't seen it. I'm gonna catch up. I'm gonna catch up. I'm, and the cast, the cast for, you know, your beloved Reefines is here. Like, the cast for Sunrise on the Reaping is incredibly good. So I'm excited. He's never made one misstep in, and let me tell you, like, I've never a bad movie. Finally watched, uh, uh, Bone Temple over the weekend. historic stuff from our guy Ray finds.

Historic. Excellent. For a musical enthusiast such as yourself and a dance enthusiast such as yourself, it is art of the highest order, genuinely. Excellent. He's just, he's the best. On the adaptation front, I have obviously no ability to comment on this, but on the Brando-Sanda front, what did you make of the Apple TV news that, like, is that exciting to you as a home? I intentionally didn't include any questions about that from our listeners when we dig it a lot. lot of questions about that because like I'm embarrassed to say I have not read the costumere.

I like started and not finished the first book in, uh, in one of his many, many series. Yeah, because you had begun your Brando Sando journey recently and I have still, I have not. So, uh, well, I read trust of the MLC and I really liked it and I read the nightmare. Like, I read a couple of like the sort of more standalones and then I really tried to like get into the one of the big series and I flamed out a little bit and I feel embarrassed by it. so I don't, I'm not allowed to have any opinions about cost me. But I'm excited for people that it's happening. And I hope it turns out to be more impactful than, and I'm not shitting on Wheel of Time.

I just know that it, like, it, I don't think it landed exactly the way that I think a lot of people really loved it. I think a lot of people were really excited by it. But I don't think it became like, you know, the Thrones level or even, I would say, rings a power level sort of adaptation project that people who are fans of. the Robert Jordan books were hoping it would be. So I hope that whatever happens with this Cosmere adaptation, it is everything that Brando Sando fans wanted to be. Okay. Are you looking for support in your weight management journey?

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This next question comes from Jordan. That was like a mashup of like nine different book questions. So, you know, thank you to everyone who sent their book questions. This next question comes from Jordan who says, I'm about to rewatch two of my all-time favorites, the expanse and black sales. These are some of my all-time favorite moments in media, especially Toby Stevens' speeches and black sales. What is an underrated show or performance that does not get talked about enough where you

just think to yourself, okay, that is good. That is what I'm talking about. about. So yeah, Mallory, this is a chance. I mean, I struggle with this question a little bit because like, what stone have we left on turn in terms of us trying to highlight? And said, like, should we not do this? Because I don't know how to answer this in a way we haven't already. But then I was, I found myself glad we had it. Yeah. I have a few faves that I don't think I've talked about a lot. Oh, great. Okay. I'm going, I'm leaning into the I have been paralyzed by debilitating regret about not having mentioned a couple things as much as I

wanted to or at all in the best of the century so far series. And I was going to use that as an opportunity to rectify that. But hit us with what you have. Tell us. Did you stick with TV shows? I will just echo that in terms of the expanse, which is a show that I flamed out on, though, a lot of people love. But I love the first season I love and then a bit into the second season. But when it was like Space Noir, like that's what I really loved. And then it sort of moved out of that into more just sort of like space politics, which is like still very interesting to a lot of people, but it like moved away from what I loved.

And so I kind of bailed out on it. But I do think that like season one of the expanse and into season two is like really top tier space stuff. Ashes to Ashes is a show. I don't talk about it a lot, but it's from the early odds. It's a UK show. It was a sequel to Life on Mars, which was a UK show that was made into a terrible American show.

But Ashes to Ashes basically both the premise both Life on Mars and Ashes to Ashes, both named after David Bowie songs, is that like a cop in modern day gets shot, injured somehow, put into a coma that may or may not also be time travel, and so they're sent back in time. And so in Life on Mars, John Sim's characters sent back in time to the 70s and Ashes to Ashes, Keeley Haas characters sent back in time to the 80s. But you have the same characters that were in the 70s world, are now in the 80s world. and I just loved Ashes to Ashes. Both of those shows, you know, Ashes to Ashes more like fall apart a little bit as you go forward.

It gets a little like, as they're trying to land their premise, gets a little like whatever. But it counts because it's time travel question mark or is it not? We're not sure. But sort of this like fish out of water, especially like this like 2000s lady cop inside of the world of like 80s, you know, sexism. and stuff like that. Philip Glanister, who plays the Gov, the head of the department in both series, is just like one of my all-time favorite performances of anything ever.

So Ashes to Ashes I never talk about. The magicians we have talked about, Legion we have talked about, but like... Yeah, those are both worth another mention always, though. Both of those just like aren't as seen as they deserve to be. First couple seasons of Penny Dreadful would also sort of put on the list. Yeah, absolutely.

I feel like being dreadful. That's really lost to time. But that's, that show was quite assured in its sense of self in a way I really admire. Yeah. And some just great performances, including from our shared wife, David Green, just one of the most beautiful people who has ever. It was great. Incredible. Yeah.

A really, really good shit. The Green Knight, Dev Patel. Dev Patel has been getting a lot of, you know, you and I love Dev Patel. We spent an entire South by getting really excited for a movie that wasn't very good, but we were excited to. to be in the presence of Deb. But Deb has been getting a lot of play on my Instagram reels lately because a lot of people really wanted him as Heathcliff in Wuthering Heights. And I got to say, like, thinking about Wuthering Heights with Deb Patel and it is just like,

what a what if? But anyway, the Green Knight, I thought deserved way more love than it got. David Lowry's incredible, visually incredible, like sort of psychedelic. exploration of a great authorian tale, which I really love. I want to say, this is not going to be impressive to you, but I was so proud. So Ralph Anderson, who plays the Green Knight in that and shows up in a ton of fantasy things.

I was talking to Rob and Kai after we went to go see a screening of something, and we were just out on the street having a curbside conversation. And we were talking about Ralph Edison, and one of them was like, oh, wasn't he in Game of Thrones? And I was like, oh, yeah, Dagmar and Clefjah. And they just, like, looked at me that they were like, I'm sorry, who? And I was like, Dagmer and Clefjew, obviously.

And I just felt so like, I'm in the wrong conversation. I feel like if I were talking to you, they would be like, you'd be like, yeah, of course. Some wonderful, really wonderful armor design on the Iron Islanders in that stretch of Fun of Thrones in season two. Very memorable. Very memorable. To some. Last, I'm going to let me wrap up.

I talk about the fall a lot, the Leapace film. But just again, one of the most visually exquisite things. A 4K disc that I own that I love, but occasionally gets released out into theaters. So if you can go see it on the big screen, I saw it at Alamo in San Francisco a couple of years ago. It was just like such a lush, incredible experience. Steve Allman's favorite, right? He loves that movie. He does love the fall.

Dead Like Me, we talked about pushing Daisies. but Dead Like Me was an incredible, incredible Brian Fuller show before pushing daisies that I really love. Mandy Patinkin's so good. There's some incredible scenes with Mandy in like the Waffle House that they like would meet up in and Calibu. Like I just, I really loved that show. And then last one at least, I think on my list, this is Diana. My best friend Diana suggested this. Star Trek Voyager, which is like not when we talk about it a lot.

but she said specifically the doctor in 7 of 9. Seven of nine is Jerry Ryan's character who's a who's a Borg. And basically Diana's point in, it's a really good one, is that Jerry Ryan was hired to be like the tits and ass on that show. Like, you know, they're like an extremely hot woman that they put in like a, you know, a skin type body suit. And they're just like, is she not hot? And you're like, yeah.

But she's so good that they then gave her like the best storyline. because it's this exploration of the Borg and humanity and individualism and the bliss of the collective and all this sort of just like really complicated Star Trek stuff that you can get into. But just like I love that Jerry Ryan showed up, knew she was eye candy, was so good at her job that they're like, oh, you could do so much more. It's like we talked about this a lot with Battlestar Galactica. When the character of Capgris 6 was supposed to be just sort of like eye candy,

but then like that performance was so good by Tricia Healford. that they turned that into like something quite extraordinary. So, yeah, that would be my list of like things that I don't talk a lot about. Yeah. But still have a cozy corner in my heart. We definitely had some overlap dead like me, Legion, Penny Dreadful, the fall. I mostly just wanted to use this as an opportunity to like formally apologize to myself and everyone I've let down for. I really can't believe I haven't had a fringe entry on Best of the Century so far yet, because it is a show that I love.

And I think it fits both aspects of the prompt here with like the property itself, but then also the performances inside of it. Because I think Anatoorv in Fringe as Olivia is just, it's such an Afilivia. Quite right. And it's just such a, especially, like, you know, you're sharing all of these scenes and some just an amazing as it always is John Noble performance as Dr. Bishop and, of course, Joshua Jackson is here as his son Peter Bishop. The blend of, like, energies and degrees that the three of them are bringing in all of their scenes, you know, Lance Reddick is wonderful in this show. Leonard Nimoy was in Fringe, which was a really fun thing to share with Adam, because he's like, his, Adam is. Adam is a Treki like you and literally his just

all-time favorite and so that was just super fun. There's a great Blair Brown performance. But I feel like fringe, while really entrenched as a beloved cult classic, is a little lost to the sands of time and like, you know, existed in this interesting way

as very much, and you know, so this is a bad robot, JJ Abrams, part of this like real era of of J.J. Abrams, it is a J.J. Abrams show, but also part of this moment in time where we had a lot of J.J. Abrams Popplature. It, like, lost and alias and, like, et cetera, et cetera. Exactly. And so, like, that, those aspects are present, certainly, but there's, like, such a clear debt that fringe owes to, you know, Twilight Zone X Files, et cetera, right? And it has a real, like, procedural.

So it was on Fox. It aired from 08 to 13. It's like 100 episodes. it's not like the easiest thing to just say, I'm going to go back and watch Fringe. Like, there's a lot of Fringe, five seasons. But the procedural aspects of it for like a network show of that era, really fun. As the mythology started to deepen and it became this like really entrenched characters on an arc serialized story, it moved into a different tier. And I think probably a lot of people didn't make it to that point in the show. And I think it's really worth.

You know, like if you're into a lot of the stuff that we cover here, you know, the kind of like paranormal, sci-fi fantasy, like alternate worlds aspects, alternate timelines, alternate versions of yourself, etc. That's all there. It's very weird, like unapologetically weird. And I think it is quite funny, but also very intense. And it's really driven by like inward character motivations that reveal themselves over time. And like there's a great slow burn romance in it that is like still again a shock to me that I didn't, that didn't make our recent Valentine's Day episode. There's like a great father-son relationship. It's just really, it's a show I love and I miss. And I'm long, long, long overdue for a rewatch. So felt like an opportunity here to rectify

my recent wrong of not toasting it on best of the century so far and toasting it here. And then this one is completely predictable. But if I didn't mention dark while we got this question, it would be a system. I told myself I wasn't allowed to mention dark. This question exists to talk about dark and celebrate dark. I mentioned it every chance I get on the pod, but like, if you've not yet watched dark, it's only three seasons, German language, Netflix, time travel mystery show that is one of the most fully realized. Don't Google anything about it.

Honestly, don't even look at the cast list because you'll get spoilers there. Like, look at nothing. Look at nothing other than the thumbnail on your television screen as you click. in and then try not to look at like pictures of seasons to it. Just look at the first episode and then just let it kind of boot the next episode. Auto play. Yeah. It does that for you.

Just a sensational. One of the most brilliant, this is like the ultimate cork board, you know, strings on my theory tracker show. But you don't have to watch it that way. You can, though, and that's very fun. So check that out if you haven't. It's the best. It's the best. And I will co-sign, you know, this.

This message from Jordan, I will say, Black Sales is a phenomenal show that does not get enough love. And the writing in it is so beautiful. And Toby Stevens is incredible. This is a Treasure Island sort of like prequel kind of thing. And it's just like, yeah, I mean, it's the same creators who did Percy Jackson. So there's a lot of like DNA crossover there. But like it's quite underrated. And just like, yeah, some of the most beautiful writing and speechifying you ever did see.

I'm just going to go to this question we got from Ben about Survivor 50. The question I think, I believe, was. I have it. Hold on. It is Survivor 50 winner picks and predictions for who from the Season 50 cast gets the White Lotus cameo. Oh, yeah. This is easy. This is easy. I had a very quick answer for the White Lotus cameo as well.

But it's Surrey. Oh, like, is it not? Okay. So Mike White is on Calo. Calo. I don't know. So this is Survivor 50. Just in case you guys don't watch Survivor.

This is the 50th season of Survivor. They brought back a lot of, you know, a lot of faves, some conspicuous absences. There are various reasons for that. A lot of new era players are here a surprising amount. You can hear Riley McAtee. Mallory Rubin and Tyson himself from Survivor talk about this on The Pot of Spoken. Like there's been a lot of great ringer coverage on this. I am by no means a survivor expert.

I am like a new recruit recruited by Mallory into the lowest survivor. So, um, but I did win my survivor betting pool. A new recruit who won a pool last season, season 49 winner. I did win my pool season 49. Um, anyway, I have watched almost every season that is like these people are represented from. Not every single one though. there's some new era seasons that I haven't watched.

So there are some players that are like a little bit of a black box to me. I just think that Surrey, who is this like absolute Survivor legend, a lot of people call her the greatest player to never have won, et cetera, et cetera, a member of the Black Widow Brigade, which is like the, I think, the best fucking thing that's ever happened on Survivor, et cetera. Like, Ceri is here and a lot of people are rooting for her to like, this is her time. she's finally going to win sort of thing. I have some, like, I believe that Survivor, the producers of Survivor, put their thumb

on the scale for various players. They can't control everything inside of a game, but in terms of, like, advantages and other things and, like, you know, tribe swaps and all these, like, various things that they can control, I do think they put their thumb on the scale for, like, narratives that they think would, you know, would work out and stuff like that. And I think they are emotionally invested in Surrey going as far as she can go on this. Surrey is your winner pick. I thought Surrey was your white lotus cam.

No, she's, no, she's my white lotus cam. I don't know that she's going to win. Okay. But I, but I, but she is my white lotus cameo. So, so you were, okay, so to go back to you, they have put us, they, there are three different tribes to start with. Yes. More players than usual.

Three different tribes. Yes. Mike White is on a certain tribe. Yes. So that's, so, okay. I was looking back. We'll do our winner picks after. He's surprising abs.

Yes. Oh my God. He's shredded. That was great. So previously, the White Lotus cameos, Alec, obviously, is like an actual character. Alec plays Hutch in season one of White Lotus, and Alec played with Mike White on my favorite season, David versus Goliath. Season two, Angelina and Kara, Angelina back now, of course, for season 50, but has already

been on White Littance and the beach scene with Daphne. And then season three, we got Natalie and Carl, and then very quickly a flash of Christian. Mm-hmm. Christian, my favorite. We'll talk about that when we get to our one. winter predictions in a minute. I'm sure well. So all of the people who have appeared on White Lotus so far, and this of course makes sense,

were on David versus Goliath. Now, it's possible I'm missing somebody else who had a cameo from a different season, but basically this makes sense. They played with Mike White. That's why they're there. And there were a lot of Goliaths because that was Mike White's tribe before we got to a David. So I basically, I was just like who's on Mike White's tribe to start the season here

because I'm not sure he's making it to a. Or even a tribe swap, but I would love to be wrong. Because I think it's not only as seeing him, I think he was just incredibly entertaining as expected in the premiere, the three-hour premiere. Nothing could have shocked me more. I had a meeting with Riley the next day that just happened to be on the books. And I was like, was this a known thing? Apparently it was. I had no idea.

It definitely was, but you and I both were like two hours in and we were like, how long is this premiere? Shocking stuff. I mean, I was thrilled. I would watch three hours every week, but that was stunning to me. So, okay, Mike White is on Calo, Calo, the Teal Tribe with Charlie Tiff, Chrissy, Camilla, D, Coach, and Jonathan. My early pick then would be D because they had the chomper's chat. You know, Mike White complimenting the teeth, are those yours? No, great stuff.

But my dream, my dream, I just beg the universe to give us this gift is for Mike White to make it at least to a tribe swap and to be on a tribe with Q so that Q can be on White Lotus. which I think, frankly, we all deserve. I have to say, like, I don't think we need to be as hemmed in by did Mike White play with them. Maybe not. Because there's all the, like, promo tour and then the, like, parties and stuff like that. So there's plenty of opportunity for him to, like, mix and mingle with players that he didn't, like, actively play with. But I think you're right to narrow it down to that. I just think there's, I just think, Ceri, you know, like, belongs on that.

And I think my suspicion is, so like, you mentioned Christian, Rick Devons. Like, this is, this is an incredible alliance that they've already given plenty of screen time to in this first episode to. Like, so it would be incredible for them to go the distance together. Like, that would be, they're so, I love Christian. They're so charismatic together. They're so delightful. I am suspicious that. Yeah.

And this is based on me watching. the like, I forget which season it was, but when they like brought Ozzy and coach back as like the two heads of dueling tribe. But like I felt like I could feel their thumb on the scale of that season of trying to keep both Ozzy and coach in as long as they could in that season because that was sort of like the whole core storyline of that season. So I feel like people like Surrey and and coach and Ozzy, like they're going to try to keep those people in as far as they can in, in the game is a suspicion I have. I don't think we're going to be left with a bunch of, like,

brand new era players. Yes. It's an interesting. There's a, I think that's right. There's a conflict between maybe what the producers want and how the players will be inclined because... Right, no, but like, but like,

as much as the producers can... Yes, sure. Set up challenges where someone, you know, Ceri might not flame out so hard on like a future challenge. Yes. or, you know, put an advantage, you know, like, they're on Exile Island or whatever, and there's, like, an advantage waiting. You know what I mean? Like, there are things that they can do to help.

They can't completely fix the game, but they can help to keep certain players in the game, you know. So my dearest hope, to put a pin in the White Lotus. I think you're right that it can be anyone who's just intermingling as a part of it. Because Mike White even is like, I just didn't want to, I'm here because I didn't want to miss out. I have FOMO and this is, like, a great party. So while in the past he might have been dictated, his decisions might have been like, did I fuck you and I'm making it up to you by letting you come to Sicily or were we pals? Maybe now it's just we were a part of this magical experience together. So for winner, my dearest hope is that it is Christian because as we've talked about before, I think he is like one of the all time, clearly played the best game his season and should have won and didn't injustices in the history of Survivor. And I would like to see that rectified. I was thrilled as a result of that to see him. him so centered in the premiere, both in terms of this wonderful alliance with Devons and Emily, which is like the Brain Alliance is very exciting to me. The genius of figuring out despite their

restrictions on the kinds of lenses that you can have to avoid exactly this possibility, starting the fire with glasses. I'm just like, this guy is just riveting to me to watch. For that same reason. Talking about his secret kid. The secret kid, we got the tugging on the heartstrings. For that same reason, I obviously am very concerned, as you noted rightly, I think, last week, that everybody recognizes what a genius he is and what a brilliant tactician and strategic mastermind he is and so will he be allowed to linger for long?

I don't know. I, Riley, on the first, if you're not listening to The Pot Has Spoken, you're not watching The Pot Is Spoken, get with it right now. They're doing double episodes every week, a traditional breakdown, Wednesday night waiting for you in your feed,

and then exit interviews with eliminated players. Riley, they do predictions every episode for like where they are in the given season who they think is going to win. Riley kind of compelled me with his Genevieve case, which I think would have been a strong pick regardless. And Genevieve is the kind of new era player who I think has a chance to really, really go far. I think that the Genevieve Aubrey scene was so conspicuous and strange that it makes me, it almost makes me think one of them wins. It just was such a bizarre scene to include it otherwise. But there's like a very significant like the two of them battling it out. Yes, that that could be one of the relationships that drives the season.

Yeah. The edit is so important to watch. It's harder in a three-hour episode because they have so much more space to sort of like shove various storylines in there. And they were trying to set up like a three-way who will be eliminated, tension that was largely manufactured. But that's fine. Yeah. Yeah, I'm excited. I'm sad. I haven't done my picks yet for my pool. I guess I have until today, I think, to put them in. I have no idea who will win. I'm usually pretty bad at predicting that this early in the season. I think, like many people have a much better feel for it deeper into the game. I don't want to, if anyone is like, I didn't expect you guys to talk about Survivor on this pod, I don't want to hear spoilers. I haven't watched. I won't say what happened in the first episode yet. This is a safe space. However, I will say in a coded way. And if you don't even want to hear this kind of coded thing, just hit.

fast forward two times. I think Camilla, I was devastated by what happened at the end of the premiere. I won't say what it was to preserve people on the sport. I was devastating since I just love that player. I think Camilla is well positioned as a result of that to go far. Interesting. I'll just say that. Interesting.

Yeah. Well, and meanwhile, I think that hurts Genevieve's game. It does. It does. And I think if Genevieve can recover, that's part of why weirdly I like, why Riley really compelled me. because I'm like, that alliance immediately fell to tatters. But that's the kind of thing where if you can make it through that, you become a number, you can move with freedom,

and you have such a strong story at the end. But, I mean, who knows? There are so many players. I mean, 24 players is a bat shit. I know. It's a lot. It's a lot to do with that math. Anyway, Survivor 50.

We might talk about it more on this podcast. Maybe not. We'll see. Okay. Let's zag and go to. Jane Austenland. Okay. So our listener, Jazz, wrote in

about the upcoming Pride and Prejudice that's hitting Netflix this year. Asking, do you all have feelings about Jack Loudon playing Mr. Darcy and he takes there or any thoughts that a general dislike

of a blonde Mr. Darcy I've been seeing on Twitter, which is sad, leave my boy alone. Emma Corrin is Lizzie ain't my favorite, but I ain't mad neither. So, upcoming Pride and Prejudice adaptation,

what are your thoughts? feelings on it. I can't wait. I am a Jane Austen obsessive. I took a Jane Austen course in college. Like, I love Jane Austen. I would say I'm pretty rusty. It's been, you know, quite a while since I've revisited the source text, though I did just receive a beautiful new box set from my lovely husband, so I'll dive back in and refresh myself. But I'm like, I'm one of these Jane Austen fans where you could give me 500 Pride to Prejudice adaptations and you, the world, have, right? Actual adaptations, Also things like Bridger Jones's diary, which is, of course, a modern adaptation. Your favorite, Prime Prejudice and Zombies?

Pride Prejudice and Zombies, exactly. And I'll never tire of it. I'll never tire of getting Pride of Prejudice adaptations or Austin adaptations of any sort. So I'm interested to see, you know, this Netflix version of it. In terms of the, I mean, the cast is just in general, I think great. Like Olivia Coleman is here. What is to complain about? Darryl McCormick, as Bingley is quite fun.

I like him a lot. I just, as a matter of kind of. of principle. I don't really understand dunking on and shredding a casting because of somebody's hair color that seems like not reasonable to me. However, I will take it beyond that and say, just watch a second of anything Jack Loudoun has ever done and you'll feel better. River Cartwright on Slow Horses, the show we both love,

is one of my favorite TV characters and performances in recent memory. And I think that he, Jack Loudon, as River, has exactly what Darcy needs. There's that kind of like skeptical, detached, hot equality, but then such warmth when a relationship develops or you gain access to it. So I think he'll be great. I'm excited. Can't wait. I'm really into Jack Loudon as Mr. Darcy.

Emma Corrin has never done something uninteresting ever. Emma Corrin, the closest comp I can come up with for this is her Lady Chatterley's lover that she did, which was actually she was very good in. So, like, I'm intrigued by this. I, however, I'm not a, I'm not a huge Joe Wright, Cura Knightley, Matthew McFadden, Pride and Prejudice fan. I prefer the miniseries just because there's way more room for, it's not just like the call and birth of it all. It's just like, there's just so much more room for, like, the eccentric side characters, which I think is what makes Jane Austen so special.

And so when you get to, like, a film out of it. adaptation with, like, you know, there are exceptions, like, I think the Karen Heinz persuasion or the Angley sensibility. Like, there are movie versions that have figured this out. But I think the Joe Wright, Pride and Prejudice, has a lot going for it. But ultimately, focuses it too much on Lizzie and Darcy when I think, like, the whole family dynamic. And I think, I do think that, like, Mrs. Bennett is one of, like, the all. time great Jane Austen creation. So Olivia Coleman as is like letter cook as Mrs. Bennett. Like it's extremely exciting. So I'm I'm open to see what happens here. But I do think in general,

you're really hard pressed to capture the magic of a Jane Austen novel inside of a feature length presentation. So we'll see sort of what happened there. And will this 2026 Netflix adaptation be able to topple the iconic BBC 95 miniseries featuring Colin Firth in a sodden white shirt. I doubt it, but that's okay. Maybe it'll be great. Maybe it'll be great. You know, maybe there will be like, you know, because, like, Rosamond Pike is so good as Jane in the Joe Wright version.

That's one of my favorite binglies. Like that bingley is so good. Simon Wood, I think is that actor's name. So, you know, like, there's always going to be, you know, and Tom Holliner is Mr. Collins, like, you know, incredible stuff. So like there's always going to be some things that like really, really land in an adaptation to enjoy. So unless it's the Dakota Johnson Persuasion, which was one of the like worst crimes against Jane Austen fandom that I've ever seen. That's a great book. My favorite, my favorite Jane Austen book, and they just absolutely shit the bet on that. So anyway, okay. Let's, oh, on the Jennifer Ely friend, I will just take us over to, we got a lot of emails about,

The Vampire Listad, the upcoming interview of the vampire television show. We don't need to linger too long here because I just want to announce officially. I think we've said it a couple times, but not everyone listens to every podcast. So in case you're listening to this podcast, we will be covering the vampire list at every episode. Is it airing at the same time as House of the Dragon? Yep. Is that going to stop me from doing super long episodes about the Vampire Listat? Nope.

That just means it's peak House of our season, peak Joe season. We get kind of like, I get kind of booed. Like when we did Rings of Power and House the Dragon at the same time, that was just, you're just sort of like running on adrenaline. It's like very, very good. I will say, so in terms of like the promo that's come out for the Vampire Listat, season three of interview with the vampire essentially, they've released a couple teaser trailers.

IGN fan fest had like a whole scene, which was fucking incredible about Listat finding out. about the book and going to a Montreal bookstore and, like, losing his shit as he's listening to these booksellers, A, mangle French and their Kebacroax, and B, talk about how much they love Armand, is just like one of the best things I've ever seen. Everything has been so exciting. But as I texted you, and I think I've already mentioned on the pod, as part of the promo, they released Longface, a Vampire Lestat single on Spotify under the artist name, like, the Vampire Lestat. So they've, like, given him, like, his own,

artist page. That track has 483,000 plays. I believe 480,000 of them are me. So we're just, we're out here living. I was going to ask you like if you just knew on the date of March 3rd, 2006, what was going to top your Spotify wrapped? Like, is it done? That's literally what you texted me. You were like, how comforting to already have your Spotify rap number one track out there. I guess the variable here, the complicating aspect of that is they have indicated they will be releasing, they're just going to, it's a slow drip of tracks until the show comes out. So who knows? I mean, that just guarantees. Longface is very good.

Tire top five will probably all be songs from the vampire list. That will be your artist of the year, the vampire list out. That's going to be pretty good. I can't wait for my rap video that I want to get from Sam Rating. at the end of the year. Great stuff. I'm piano and your forte, you're Allegro, I'm on Dante. Like, the lyrics for the song are so exciting.

And then sort of like the, I mean, it's based on the book, The Vampire Listad, but what seems to be clear about how they're going to do, like, flashbacks and all of this, Jennifer Ely, who is Lizzie Bennett in that 95 Pride and Prejudice, plays Gabriella in this. I'm very excited about that. Marius is here. Magnus is here, Nikki is here, like all these characters are here, but we're seeing in the trailers, you see them sort of like pop up in the modern, you see Louis from season one of the interview with vampire. So popping up in the modern day audience inside of these concerts, the Vampire LaStat is going on tour. So this is like a trauma, drug-induced, fueled, inspired by Daniel Maloy interviews, perhaps like, journey for LaStat to go through his origin story.

So this idea of like people from the past cropping up in the future as like in the present as like a hallucination is just like incredibly exciting. It's very much like the best parts of Damon and Heron Hall when I told you like I like it when a story is like oozing in and out of like reality and memory and dream and stuff like that. And you don't really. And like the camera tricks you can play in order to make that happen. Like I'm really excited for what we get from that. So that inside of a Velvet Goldmine-esque like rock musical. Every single photo they've released of Sam Reed, like, writhing around on the ground in, like, leather pants, shirtless is just like a gift for everyone. All of the Daniel Hart quotes about Bowie as an influence, just magical stuff.

What a time to be you and us. I can't wait to. I'm so excited. We recently had the privilege on our, you know, our gift swap where you treated me to season two of interview with a vampire and I took you into an active volcano. I know for Fire and Ash. I just thought that that was an incredible season of television. So I'm really looking forward to this, can't wait. Yeah.

I mean, there's this quote that Raleigh Jones, the showrunner gave to, I think, Nerdist, or he said, Armand will show up in, quote, full gremlin fashion. So we're going to get Armand. We haven't seen it Kasha yet. They've cast her. Sheila Tim is playing her, but we haven't gotten the Queen of the Damned in the trailers yet. So there's just like a lot to come. summer is going to be extraordinary for us.

I'm extremely excited. So here we go. Okay, this next question comes from Emily. It's about Project Hail Mary. The premise of the question, spoilers for anyone who hasn't seen the trailers. They're sort of like putting the premise of the book out there and all of the trailers.

So if you've seen any promo material, like you know what the premise of the story is, which is not necessarily the case if you just read the book cold. So that's sort of at the core of this question. So if you don't want to know, maybe skip ahead. But Emily wrote here, in both Doctor Who and Project Hail Mary, we're on a very enclosed spaceship for a very long time with another person. Would you rather be roommates with the doctor or Rocky? Both have their pros, smart, funny, problem solvers, both have their cons.

The doctor can't drive most of the time and Rocky can't breathe the same air. So I'm curious what you guys would go for. Personally, give me Rocky any day in the week. Seems like a great hang once we get past the language barrier. So people who don't know Rocky is this rock-based life form that, you know, our guy Ryan Gosling, Rylan Grace, meets in space. So would you rather hang out with Rocky or, and I say you get to pick which doctor of your choosing? I think it's really funny that we got this question based on something we have already taped for Project Hail Mary that has not

seen the line of day yet. But what would you pick, Mallory? Okay, so if I got to pick my doctor, but then do I get to control, like, what, how long I'm with that doctor? Because of a regeneration at any point and then who knows, you know, I... Don't worry. He'll tire of you or kill you before he has a chance to regenerate. I get a few velvet blazer days with 12 and then I'm fucked. To me, with love and respect to the doctor, this is the easiest question that we've ever gotten to answer. Again, we've encouraged you to skip to just the next chapter title in the chapter list

if you don't want to hear this at all. But I'll try to keep it non-spoilery. Rocky is one of my favorite characters in fiction. and I think Rocky is an icon, and I think that sharing space and a, like space, space, but also space, like a space, like A space with Rocky. And sharing a life with Rocky would be the honor and privilege of my existence. Rocky, very cat-coded to me. So I think it would just be wonderful, you know, the idea of being able to like, to Emily's

point in the question, the problem-solving nature, the, like, I can fix this. I can build something. I can figure it out. Very goal-oriented, mission-oriented. But the charm. The humor, the charm, the genuine desire to forge a connection. It's all I want out of life. So if, you know, we can't breathe the same air, that's fine. I think we're breathing something more important, and that's a shared experience. It's Rocky for me. How about you? I would shove Rocky out the airlock if it meant that I could adventure with a 10th doctor. How dare you? How dare you? How dare you? I love Rocky, but...

You couldn't just send him down his tunnel? No, out the airlock. Just sort of carving me like all of his little legs. Like, fuck in there. God damn it. Oh, man, this roll his bubble down the tunnel. Fuck. No, out the airlock.

Okay. We got a lot of people emailing about traders. I know this isn't a show that you've watched, so I don't want to spend too much time on it. No, tell me. Tell me why. Tell me what I'm missing. saying because I'm consuming this exclusively through Instagram.

Quinn ads. Rob, yeah, Quinn ads, yes. I have been consuming those. Rob made it into my algorithm. I think in part because I follow some other people who were on traders. And so then some of the traders' content made its way to my algorithm. And then I served more traders' content. But, like, really it was Rob.

You're a big Michael Rappap. You're a big Michael Rappaport guy? I know. I do follow Colton just as like a kind of a legacy follow from a thousand years ago from when Colton was The Bachelor, a very memorable season of The Bachelor. I can't remember who else from this season of Traders I follow. But I don't watch Law of Violence, so I didn't know Rob before this.

But I have not seen, as I've told you, other than on Instagram, Reels, a second of Traders. I've never watched this show. And I watch reality TV. I watch, you know, some game competition things, some, not as much as I used to. But I do feel that I would like this. I've not consumed a second of it. Tell me what I'm missing. And also...

You would love Rob, because, like, the deal is, so spoiler to the traitors. Yeah. Rob Rausch, who is like a guy who likes snakes but was also in Love Island. Alabama boy, right? I love overalls. He won pretty handily, and I will say you would love this because you would love how smart and good and ruthless Rob was in this game. I think it would really appeal to something inside of you in terms of like the best man should win. And like he, I mean, without question, he outsmarted it.

everyone. Like he's shown playing chess several times this season. Like he's a big chess guy. And so like it's just so clear that he played this season like a game of chess and he just positioned all the pieces where he wanted them be. He used his pretty privilege. He screwed over his fellow traders. Like he did all this stuff and he and he won. The way he won at the end of the day is there is this woman named Mora, who was also a Love Island alum and a very beautiful Irish woman. who came into the game knowing nothing about it, like signed up for the game without knowing what the rules were,

and basically sort of like attached herself to Rob or he said like, come stand by me, and then she was just like his faithful lieutenant without knowing that he was lying to her the whole time. So she wasn't a traitor, she was a faithful? She was a faithful. He made her like basically his shield. He made a bunch of, like, Colton was one of his shields.

Like he made like a bunch of people his sort of like covers he went through this game. Natalie from Survivor, like a bunch of people. And like it was only at the very, end that people started cottoning on to, but it was like too late. He had set too many pieces in place. Like the last two episodes, people kind of knew he was a traitor, could not convince more otherwise despite compelling evidence. And so she, the finale was really quite boring because she just voted with Rob three votes. It was like, it's like the most predictable vote,

three votes in a row. It all hinged on Wilma flip. She was never going to flip on him. And then the last thing was like him revealing to her that he was a traitor. Was it incredible television. Yes. What is it one of the most painful things I've ever watched? Yes, because she's just sort of like, we won and he was like, I'm a traitor. And she's like, and that he gets to keep everything. He gets all the money. She gets nothing. Yeah. Okay. Jeez. It's hard because Mora, like, Mora turned on every, like, woman in the game, turned on every, like, gay person in the game to just, like, stick by this Alabama boy who was screwing her over the whole time. It was really hard for to watch. She was not being a girl's girl, but I try really hard to be a girl's girl, so I'm trying to be on

Moore's side, even though Moora was not on the side of, I feel really bad for her. She called herself stupid so many times, and I felt like so crushed for her. She's like, you've embarrassed me, you made a fool of me, like, all this sort of stuff like that. He's like, I'm sorry, it's the game. And he's right. I mean, like, he's right. He played a really, he played a perfect game. But it was just like really hard to watch. And I was just like, I was watching some creator that I follow and Instagram who does a great job of watching shows and commenting while she watches them. And she was like, she's like, I want to root for the girls and the gays, but the straight guy is playing such a better game. And it's like so true.

Like, so, um, Mora, you betrayed all the people that I wanted you to align with. But, um, you pay the price and I feel really bad for you that that happened to you. Everyone in the internet is calling her dumb and I feel really bad about that too. And I just like It's just really tough And then they had a reunion afterwards And that was like really hard for me to watch So Rob won he deserved to win

I feel bad about it that he won But like you have to admire that the game that he played Does that make sense? Yeah sounds great How I've laid out It sounds wonderful This sounds great I'm intrigued

It's really good It's really good Traders is really good I only watch Survivor and Traders Essentially are like the only reality that I watch And, like, I will say, especially when I was in L.A. the last couple months, everywhere I went, I could talk to people about the traders. Like, everyone was watching it and everyone was talking about it. And, like, it reminded me of, like, watching you go through the world being able to talk about sports, where I could just talk to anyone about the traders.

Yeah. And I just felt like I had an easy way into small talk with anyone. I will value it forever for that. But, like, Alan Cumming is just incredible. It's edited preposterously. And the most sort of like eye rolling over the top, they're creating like dun, dun, done, dun, cliffhangers when there isn't really a cliffhanger. Like, all of that is true. But like the drama of the present, the premise. And then we got a bunch of people asking if I'd see the UK traders.

I did watch this most recent season, which was like a celebrity UK traders, which was very good. How does it compare? Are they similar? Are they like, are they notable? Yeah, it's like the same game. It's just with better. accents. Usually UK traders is normal people. And I think they are going to do a normal people

American traders. That is more interesting to me, I think, without like bringing the associations that we have with these other, either famous people or other like reality stars. Though I was interested to learn. A thing I did not know that. So Kristen from Top Chef was on this season of Traders. How did she do? She's one of the great, my great Top Chef loves. Everyone was constantly talking about, I mean, she looked amazing the whole time. One of them. Everyone was talking, beautiful. Constly talking about how smart she was.

Yeah. But she was so often wrong. Oh, interesting. Okay. Which a lot of them are. But there was this one moment where one of the traders got, Rob got one of his, both of his fellow traders out. But he got one of his fellow traders out.

And on her way out, that trader, you can't out another trader. Okay. But you can sort of like vote for them if you want to and sort of try to lead people. to vote for them to get them out. But he got this housewife Candace out. And Candice on her way out tried to, like, blow up his game. Yeah. So in the last two roundtables where they vote to vote someone out, she voted for Rob

twice. And Mora, in her Irish accent, kept calling it a trollway vote. It's a trollway vote. Why did she do it? It's a trolley vote. But like, she was trying to, like, signal like, he's the other traitor. Like, she couldn't say it outright, but that was her attempt. And Kristen, after the second time, Kristen's like, Candice trying to pin this on Rob, that sweet, sweet man.

How ridiculous. And all of my respect for Kristen just like went out the window. She was just like rolling her eyes at Candice. And I was like, Candice was trying to tell you guys something on her way out the door. But okay. So anyway, it's easy to sit at home, obviously, and like judge that people are dumb and wrong. And they're all like paranoid and like also quite, you know, there's like a ton of housewives in there. I don't know any of housewise.

I don't know anyone except the Survivor players. And then like the RuPaul Drag Race players. And that's like the only people I know were in the mix. People from the challenge are in there sometimes, right? I would know some of them. Yeah, but yeah, you would know the challenge people. But like, and Michael Rappaport was randomly there. But like, yeah.

I don't know any of the housewives or big brother people. I would not know Big Brother of the pastives either. Kristen's Top Chef win back in the day. Spoiler for a thousand years ago. It's one of the great Top Chef performances of all time. Just her food. Unbelievable. Now she's, of course.

The host, right? Yeah. Amazing song. She's absolutely beautiful to look at. But her whole reputation of being smart, I was like, are we sure? Or she just got a really bad at it? I don't know. This is one of the things about Survivor in the new era to that last point that I do find fascinating.

I actually think, I've said this before, the players are too self-aware now of like just what it means to be on Survivor. They all think they're scholars because they've watched their entire lives. They're thinking about how they're going to be edited. Many of them are like professional podcasters. They're very consciously aware of their image. etc. But, and so I'm kind of my dream is like after 50 a reset where it's like cast Survivor like a jury, like people who have never seen it before.

Like let's really start with a clean slate. I think that would be really interesting. However, one thing I do find genuinely compelling about the hyper aware I'm a lifelong survivor superfan era of Survivor is how they talk about the debilitating terror of looking like an idiot on TV in real time as they're feeling that anxiety. like, am I being duped, am I being played? There's also this thing that happens on traders that is different from what happens on Survivor because, like, there is this sort of like safety and numbers voting that happens as a survivor

of sort of like, well, if everyone's going for this person, I'll just stick with the group at certain points in the game, right? That's what like every roundtable elimination is like it on the traders, where it becomes this like mob mentality thing that is like, people just like vote where the mob is going and who is running where the mob is going and that's like hard to track at any given time. But there's something like quite medieval about it that is just like very interesting to watch.

I was watching the stand-of-comedian talk about UK traders and how he was like, at one point, someone revealed that they were a doctor and then everyone voted them out as if to be like, the magic man knows too much, get him out. You know what I mean? Like this just idea of like, and to your point, like the, they call them the gamers.

So anyone who's like on Survivor, the Challenge or Big Brother, like those are the gamers. And it's like, they have. They have big targets on their back. The Housewives vote in a pack together. You know, like all of these like preconceived notions that people bring to the table. But like the gamers are like, you know, but like Surrey, Parvety, Sandra, Tony, Boston, Robb, like all these Survivor Legends have all played on the traitors. So I do think that you would enjoy it.

As intrigued as I am by Rob, if I were to start, maybe I would just start at the beginning because I can't help myself. But if I were to go back and watch one season, I would watch Boston Robb season because he's, as you know, an all time. for me. And that's where Gabby, Gabby Wendy on last season, incredible, Zach Ephron's brother, Dylan Ephron, emerged as a tremendous star on that season. And then, yeah, like Boston Rob, Bob the Drag Queen. And Boston Rob and Bob the Drag Queen are now hosting the Traders podcast. So to your point, how can I spin this into, you know, Dylan Efron?

Like, Rob Rosh, definitely. Like, he was already doing like DoorDash ads during the season. but like he's definitely going to try to spin this into as much as he can, which is like, no wonder he's in my own. What else can you do? Did I talk about traitors longer than we're about to talk about Wonder Man, perhaps? But here we are.

Okay, so Dan wrote it. We had a couple people writing and asking for our thoughts on Wonder Man, a show that we both loved, was dropped in a binge drop. Yes. At a time when some personal stuff was going on with us, I was like in L.A. And like stuff was going on with Mallory. And then also, 9 of the Seven Kingdoms was like,

in full swing. So like all these factors combined. And we had some like makeup episodes that we had to do in a timely fashion. All of this combined to us not covering Wonder Man, which was like a real tragedy because we loved this show. And if it hadn't been dropped in a binge, like I assure you we would have caught up with it. And it breaks my heart to think of like there are so many shows that we've like covered week to week that felt like a real slog. And this is a show we loved. and didn't cover. So I feel really, like, bummed by the scheduling gods that that's how it happened. But this is extraordinarily delightful.

One of my, like, I love Agatha because I love Agatha, but like, because of all of its witch stuff go-ness. But I think in an objective sense, this was the best thing Marvel has done in, like, years, just in terms of, like, how light on its feet it was, how. how funny but emotionally resonant it was. The performance. Yeah, yeah, yeah, in the lead was like incredible, but Ben Kingsley was like phenomenal.

And then you've got like Joe Pantaliano showing up. It's like a great skewering of Hollywood inside of this superhero storytelling. And I just, I had just such a good time with it. And I'm so sorry that it feels like it got not just lost to us, but like kind of lost in general in this era of like dampened enthusiasm for Marvel. What do you want to say about Wonder Man?

I did co-sign all of that. I mean, I thought this was an absolute gem of a show. I watched this in one sitting all in a row. Every episode in a row. Which, you know, I love a binge. I love to sit there and watch multiple episodes of TV in a row. But I was just very compelled by it. I mean, it's zippy.

It's quick moving. Most of the episodes end with like a compelling propulsion point into the next and also just a sensational needle drop. The music on this season was fucking dine. dynamite. Yeah. But yeah, I just thought this was such a, you know, to your point about where we are more broadly in the MCU and some of the, not some of the, for many, unrelenting fatigue. And I think for, you know, other fans, there have been some, you know, exciting moments or encouraging moments more recently.

But this was just such a breath of fresh air and just so vibrant and charming. And I always love, yeah, yeah. I think he's just like an incredibly charismatic and compelling, a performer. And so I'm not surprised that his Simon was a delight to spend time with. But I thought he was just sensational. The ability, if anyone hasn't listened to maybe two episodes ago on the watch, Andy interviewed Andrew Guest, one of the creative minds behind Wonder Man. And very amusing bit through line throughout their entire interview of,

insisting on referring to him as Sir Ben Kingsley the entire time, which I got such a kick out of, but also as appropriate. That's great because when I did the sneakers, rewatchables, Bill implied that we should remove Ben Kingsley's knighthood from him. And outrage and a scandal. An outrage and a scandal. Astonishing. But, you know, we have, as many Marvel fans have spent many hours of our lives talking about

Iron Man 3 in the original introduction of Trevor, Big Trev, into our lives, I think to bring him back in Shang Chi and what I thought was such a delightful and shocking way that I like have no reason to anticipate or expect in that way and now continue to find a way to like incorporate Sir Ben Kingsley into the MCU in a way that makes complete sense and is completely plausible like that Trevor this was such a smart use of Trevor. And I thought... Go ahead, yeah. Sorry, one scene with the casting directors

where they're like, does it look familiar? She's like, I think he was a terrorist. It was just like, it's really good. That was all great. And I just thought, like, there are a lot of relationships to the MCU that we come to care deeply about

over time, but very quickly. I found myself very invested in Trevor and Simon as a duo, very genuinely invested. And I think that the like, meta aspects of to your skewering of Hollywood point. Like that's super interesting and I thought was well executed. You know, it is a, it's a choice. It's a decision at a moment when people are down on the MCU and people are down on the glut of

and dominance in terms of just its sheer presence, but, you know, kind of like diminished quality of superhero comic book storytelling. It's a choice to say we're going to make this like a meta story. when we the MCU, a meta story inside of the MCU and we the MCU are the cause of much of that, right? You got to nail it if you do that. It's just kind of a disaster if you try to do that and you misfire. So I don't, you know, I tend to really enjoy the meta, you know, pursuits like something like the studio is obviously very fun. I thought something like the franchise like really missed the mark. It was a letdown. But this really worked in that respect. And I think also the way that it feels like very, very contained.

and accessible. And, you know, Simon Williams is an interesting comic book character with a ton of lore. You don't need any of that to come into this. You don't really need, despite what we were just saying about, you know, Iron Man 3 and Shang-Chi. You don't need MCU priors, really? Like, you can come in cold if you want. They explain it, like, really quickly sort of, like, what the history is or the character. And, like, Trevor is basically the only character that you need any kind of, like, information on.

And like, I think we talked about this a lot with like, I don't know, Soca or something like that, like the threading the line between like rewarding someone who's done all the homework and making it inviting for someone who hasn't done the homework. And like Marvel's been really struggling under that for like the last several years. And I just thought they really nailed it with this one where it's just sort of like it's quite welcoming for people who haven't watched Iron Man 3 or Shang-Chi. Yes. But also there's stuff there for people who. have to enjoy. Yeah. If you're like a huge department of damage control head and you've been tracking the deployment of this agency across properties or something like, you know, that's fun, but you don't

need any of that. So yeah, it was just, it was wonderful. You could just be a succession fan and enjoy that R.A.M.A.A. is here. And that's all you need, you know. Always, always welcome. Yeah, you call that Joey Pants, but that was one of the great pleasures of my recent television viewing life. That was just amazing. That whole sequence is like so good. So, so. So. So. So. Like, Simon talking about, like, Simon talking with his agent about, like, code switching inside of that experience. Them talking about, like, prosciutto and, like, all of that. It was very the studio. It was really, really good.

I will say the one thing that they did, so episode four, halfway through the season, you get this episode, Doorman, which is just, it felt a little bit like they were chasing Watchmen and, like, that episode of Watchmen, where you're sort of, like, taken back in time. in a way that I'm just sort of like, I don't think you needed to do this or needed to do it right then. It felt like a slight derailment of, and especially it comes after episode three, but Coima,

which is like very, doing a lot of work in that like Trevor, Simon Bond that you talked about. The way that that episode ends is just like you're deep in your feelings about their connection and the position that Trevor finds himself in. So that sort of slight,

you know, to watch it all in a binge is like I think maybe it doesn't stick out as much as if like you're watching it like a little bit more spread out. But I would say that would be like my one critique of just sort of the rhythm of the season would be that episode, which I liked, but like, you know what I mean? Though, of course, we'll never complain about an opportunity to spend time with Josh Gad.

I never once in my life would do that. Not now, not ever. The thing that that stretch of the season does, of course, effectively reinforce for us and cement for us inside as this, like, context of why Simon's power set, and, of course, there's personal history for him in this respect, but in terms of his desire to be an actor and to work in Hollywood in the industry.

So that was all kind of interesting. But, yeah, I agree. There was something about the slowing of the momentum of the primary narrative at that point in the season that I think was not the high point. overall in terms of what it reinforced about the fear of people discovering this thing about him, that was useful. It's just a great season of TV overall, and I really hope that we get to be back with these characters soon. I'm worried, but it would be great.

I mean, like, there are certain marble misfires where I'm like, we can just pretend that never happen. And I just hope that that doesn't happen here. But we'll see. All right, last one at least in this mailbag, we get a, actually two things really quickly. I forgot to mention on the Mora on Traders Beat, I will just say for some reason, I think she has

thinner hair than she wants to have. I don't know what the full answer is there. But she wore wigs in almost every single scene, and I got a lot of emails about that from the wig watchers out there, the junior wig watchers out there were just sort of like what's going on with Morr's hair. And I agree, like, because there's certain,

she's wearing like a long, thick wig with like her real hair. We're sort of like poking out the, I mean, like, she's so, beautiful. Some of the winked appointments were like quite confusing. But anyway, that's that. And then also in the book front, we got a lot of questions from people asking if we're going to do like a formal house of our book club or anything like that. And I will just say we've got some plans and it works for some like social media stuff where you might see more book-centric content from us. So like we are planning to sort of feed this like people are like, hey, tell me what to read next. Like I am I am planning to do some more of that stuff this year coming up soon. But No formal plans, but I just want to, like, I just want to tease it. Okay.

Last question from Lauren, which is a personal question for us. Joanna's moving to L.A. I'm back of the bay right now, but I will be moving to L.A. currently looking for housing. Not as easy as one would hope. Joanna's moving to L.A. What makes you most excited about living in the same city? Any fun things you're looking forward to sharing in each other's presence that might feel easier now, Molly Rubin.

Oh, my God. Why are you most excited that I'm moving to L.A.? Jesus, where to even begin? I mean, obviously the most basic thing is just being able to make the podcast together in person, record together in person. It's always so wonderful when we get to look and gaze into each other's eyes with no screen between us, you know? Just the sometimes too warm temperature and very intense lights between us, but no screen. But I need to reach out and hold your hand.

The ability to hold a hand, if I drop my chapstick on a bathroom floor, you're like, I got you, no worries. You just tease some social media plans. Two years ago reference. It's just always top of mind for me as a really traumatic experience that you pulled me out of. Yeah, just getting to gaze into each other's eyes as we make a pod and, you know, embark on our social media pursuits together in person. What a treat. Obviously, we got to do this last week and a half ago. What is time?

Can't remember. We're going to get to go to screenings together. We're going to actually get to see more of the things that we're going to talk about together. in person. We're going to get to hang out with the Midnight Boys, big pick and see these movies together. That's fucking fun. Love that. We're going to get to go to bookstores together just because we want to.

I mean, I can't wait. Can't wait to just pop into Skylight together or Chevalier together. We're near that because our new studio is near Larchmont, so maybe we'll go over there. Are you a last bookstore head? You know, they obviously fabled downtown location. They've opened an additional location in Studio City that is fascinating.

It's just this gorgeous space and it's beautiful. We'll go there. We'll go to all sorts. We'll explore every LA bookstore together, I think. And then... It's really exciting. We're going to hang out with our friends and each other and we're going to drink alcohol together.

I did go to Chevalier a couple times looking for specific books that they did not have, but A, they did the great thing that a bookstore should do, which is like they offered a special order for me. Thank you so much. And then B, I was just like such a lovely store, a lovely, lovely, lovely shop. It's just like a very cute.

It's just like a very, very cute. I love Skylight. And I have been to the studio city location of last bookshop. So that's very exciting. Yes, Martini Mondays is something that you and I had talked about. I have started my like, my project that I started. this year is the quest to find the perfect dirty martini in Los Angeles.

And I like put this on social media and I got a lot of suggestions for people. And I've started, I went to like Black Cat with our pal Kim Renfro. I went to the Benjamin with a friend of the pod, Kristen Dwyer. And so like I, I'm searching around. I sent you a photo from the Benjamin of the of the martinis that we got there. It was like triple olives with the side jars, stuff like that. So if folks have suggestions for a dirty martini, but Mallory loves a dirty martini, I love a dirty martini. Or you've never had one.

Never had it. Is that what you're saying? Yeah, I have a deep and abiding love for olives and savory beverages and have never in my life for reasons that kind of allude me had a martini except it took one sip of yours as we watched a, what's it called? Ferrisville. Is that what it's called? Beed. rapidly disassembled in front of our eyes at Comic-com. And so I'm excited to...

We were in a restaurant, we should say. It wasn't just like drinking a dirty martini on the street watching a Ferrisville get dismantled. We were in like a steakhouse. Yeah, Mother Wolf also incredible dirty martini. Also, I saw... That place is good. I believe I saw a bad baby there. He was like...

Nice. said hi to me on my way out. So shout out to him if he's listening. Great pasta there. Delicious. Yeah, incredible pasta. but like one of the surprise best dirty martinis I've ever had. So yeah, so I have a whole list, a whole like spreadsheet that I'm working on. But if anyone has any suggestions of where I should go for a stealth, excellent dirty martini, let me know.

And I've been to Muson, Frank. I went there years ago. So I've got that one checked out the list. What are you most looking forward to about being in Los Angeles? Tell us. I think seeing movies together, like getting to go to screenings with you is always really fun. seeing the like absolute astonishing orders that you put in at the concession stand

and just sort of like marvelling at your whole vibe at the movie theater and not just the opportunity to see new movies together but like you know I got the opportunity to the you know a couple months that I was there this year to like go to a bunch of reps greetings and that was really really fun stuff for me so

and I think I mentioned this to you I might have mentioned on the pot, I can't remember, but, like, you know, going to, going to randomly of an afternoon to see, like, send help or pillion or whatever else it was that I went to go see and, like, or no other choice. And, like, the theaters were all just full. Like, you've mentioned this to me before when we talked about getting tickets for a movie and you're like, you can't get a ticket. And I'm like, that's because you live in L.A., baby. That's not true around the country. And so, like, oftentimes here, even in the Bay Area, which is, like, quite a movie-friendly place. Like, when I go to a movie in a random time or whatever, like the theaters are often empty, which is quite dispiriting.

But I love seeing a movie in a full theater. And so in L.A., my experience was no matter when I went or where I went, whether it was like a Burbank AMC, not that one, but the one across the street, or at the Grove or wherever the case may be, like, the theaters were full and thriving. So that's just like, that's really exciting for me. I remember telling you this at the time, but one of my favorite recent examples of that in L.A. was going to see flow and not a seat. Yeah. It was empty. Full fucking house. For flow. For flow. You know, for flow. For flow. So, great movie. I'm really excited about that. That's like, there's a, there's a lot that I will miss about the Bay Area where I've lived my entire life, on and off, but mostly my entire life. But there's a lot to

love about Los Angeles and I love you and I love our new studio and I'm really excited to be there to make great content with you. I think that's what Bill said to me after I come down and make great content. An episode. Sounds right. I filled an episode with him at the beginning of the year and he was just like, so how long are you here? I was like, oh, for a couple months. He's like, let's make some great content together. I was like, okay, Bill. So let's all make some great content together here at the ringer. What a great, what a great company we work for. That's it. That's all I have to say. Anything else do you want to mention? I don't think so.

I don't think so. I love you a lot. We're all. I love you a lot. We're so excited to have you down here and we'll wear some murder cloaks together. We'll take some pictures for Instagram. It's going to be fantastic. You're working on sword content for Instagram.

I'm working on book content for Instagram. I'll also do some book content. Will you do some sword content? That's really the question, you know. Great question. Will you, because you're there in the studio, of eyeballs on them. Tell me who we should thank today for their work on this podcast. Yes, as always, Carlos Chiraboga and Arjuna Ramka Powell, who are here with us and are killing it. Once again,

CT is here to help us. I mean, we had just an incredible time with CT last week doing like 19 hours of podcasts and for a day and a half. He's here with us for every second. He's here again. Who else did I see out there? Ratliff's here. Jack's here. Kevin's here. The whole crew is here. And as always, of course, for social. Thank you to Jomey. What a team effort it has been to get our studio up and running. And I mean, I saw Bill walk by. I don't know if he helped with this podcast, but he's here. So thanks, Bill. In his way, in his way he did. All right, so thank you to everyone. We'll be back with a not so mysterious, but potentially mysterious episode later this week and a lot more fun to come. This is like so our year. Like Project Hill Mary.

We're thriving. We're so excited for, you know, vampireless stat, House of the Dragon season three, what season are we on? Rings of Power, allegedly, is coming at the end of the year. Like, there's just a lot. Dune, a Paul of Fame episode, finally. Doms Day. The Odyssey. Spider-Man.

Spider-Man. Wonderful. What more could you ask for? All right. We'll see you soon. Bye. All. Pay off your home.

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