House of R - The Annual V-Day Quickie: ‘Onyx Storm’ and the Romantasy Phenomenon

Episode Date: February 15, 2025

It's time for the smut! Mal and Jo are here on time for Valentine's to discuss all of their favorite books in the romantasy phenomenon, as well as the latest hit: 'Onyx Storm.' They take a look at your questions and emails and provide illustrations of some of the spicy scenes in he Empyrean series! Hosts: Mallory Rubin and Joanna Robinson Senior Producer: Steve Ahlman Video Supervision: John Richter Social: Jomi Adeniran Addition Production Support: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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wide and everyday low prices on 365 brand items. Enjoy the fresh flavors of spring, save at Whole Foods Market. This episode is brought to by Bor's Head. What if we told you the taste of deep fried turkey is now available at your local deli? Well, Boar's Head just did that. Bursting with flavor, perfectly seasoned with that indulgent taste that usually means pointing your whole day around it, presenting the Friars Turkey Breast only from Boar's Head. The backyard tradition now available behind the counter. Visit your local deli today. Discover the craftsmanship behind every bite Boershead committed to craft since 1905. Hello, welcome to a very, very special Valentine's Day episode of House of Our. I'm Joanna Robinson and joining me now for perhaps our last

podcast together ever. It's Mallory Rubin. Do we have whiteboards with us for, some educational diagramming? We do. We do. Okay, hello. We do. Listen, this is House of R, a podcast that you may have listened to, but if you haven't or you've never watched us before, this show often contains adult content.

We really mean it today. Yes. I'm just going to start there. We're doing a podcast today. This is our second annual Valentine's Day Quickie podcast. We are doing it on the rise of a romanticcy as a genre. And specifically, we are taking it. talking about the new Rebecca Yarrow's book, Ony Storm. We have a whole section.

Yes. Talk about Ony Storm. These are spicy books. Oh, yeah. This is a spicy topic. Yes. So we've heard from people in the past from parents who are like, oh, yeah, my kids listen. And no judgment. I love that your kids listen to this podcast. Yeah. I'm just saying today, of all days, let it be known. Great.

Purge your reminders of podcasts, we may never get a chance to do together because this might be our last podcast ever. Oh, man. We're covering yellow jackets. That's right. That's right. We are right here. First one's already up.

Buzz, buzz, bitches. Yeah. So we'll be back next week with our coverage of episode three. Mm-hmm. And then we'll also be covering Captain America, Brave New World next week. Yep. So that is all coming from us. It is.

And that's exciting. Yeah. On the Ringerverse, next Tuesday, Ringer Quest. It's time. We did a D&D game. game with Steve as our DM. It was so fun. And it was, we had the best time. We all left and started immediately texting Steve asking when we could play again. When can we play again? And frankly, Steve, we're still waiting. So it's, it's Mallory, it's Joanna, it's Charles, it's Jomey, it is Van,

and it is Steve on the DM, the DM chair. That will be going up on YouTube, on Spotify, and also any podcatcher of your choice. Great. Wonderful. Also, the Midnight Boys, who, pew, did a blackest movie draft episode, which will be up next week as well. Tremendous.

Also, they have Captain America Brave New World takes that have been recorded. That's right. And we shall hear them at some point. That's exciting too. That's a lot. And again, once again,

we may not survive this episode to record those next week. But if we do, Mallory Rubin, love of my life, how can folks keep track? of all of that content. Thanks for asking.

Here's what I would recommend. Follow the pod. Great. Follow House of R. Follow the Ringervorverse. Follow the Prestige TV podcast, where we are covering White Lotus. And Joe is covering Severance on Spotify.

Or wherever you get your podcast. But here's the thing on Spotify. You can watch us on video. Full video episodes of House of Our. Midnight Boys, Bupew, Prestige TV. And you can watch those video episodes on the no longer new fucking old. The Withered Cron that is the Ringerverse YouTube channel while you're at it.

Follow us on the social media platform of your choosing, whatever that might be these days. And send us your emails. You've been sending them. We have a lot of them today. Yes. We couldn't have done it without you. Not even for a second. Yeah.

This is not just a couple today. This is an orgy. This is just the tip of what we got from our list of. Normally, romanticcy involves a lot of, full thrust. Yeah, yeah. But this is just the tip. We're just getting started.

Yep. Okay, we didn't even make it through the intro. Didn't even make it through the intro. Also, if you're just listening to this podcast and you're not watching it because we are in studio, dude. We should let you know that John Richter, our guy John Richter has decked out the set, bedecked it in Valentine's Day, regalia, there's candles, there's a new logo for us. It's just, it's great stuff.

Beautiful. We have mood lighting. We have red mood lighting. And we will be diagraming things. So this might be one you want to watch. I would recommend it. But again, after the kids are in bed. Okay. Before we completely devolve into depraved territory. One classy follow-up to our mailbag episode earlier this week. I was talking about this penguin book series when we were talking about book collection. Yeah, yeah. With letters on the covers. And our listener Emma wrote in to remind me that that's called the Penguin Drop Cap series. And the letters are actually correspond to titles, not authors.

And they're beautiful. They're absolutely gorgeous. So if you are looking to book collect the Penguin Drop Cap series. Wonderful. I love collecting books. I'm going to look at those. And then we get to go from Drop Cap to Drop Trail. Let's do it.

Okay. Let's do it. Spoiler warning. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We'll warn you as they come. Yeah.

But specifically be on the lookout for spoiler warnings for a quarterthorn and roses. the Imperion series, and very specifically, Audit Storm, the latest, the third installment in the Imperian series. Which you finished last night. Yes. Respectfully, responsibly. And I finished. Near minutes ago.

Well, let's be real, 12 minutes ago. I finished nine minutes before this podcast was supposed to start. And that was stressful, but also thrilling. When you made your deadline, you came in here. Yeah, you were brimming with joy that you had made it. I read slash listen to all three books in the Imperian series over the last week and a half. Maybe. Maybe it was, I mean, it was barely more than a week. Yeah, I think like a week and a half. Yeah. This is great because I don't know how to pronounce any of the words in this series. I, in my mad dash to finish on time, I did listen to a few chapters on the audiobook and realized that I was way off on quite a few.

the pronunciation. So I will not be held accountable for how I pronounce any dragon name today, nor any location, and also perhaps any character. I do think I can get Violet and Zaden, right? And so that's probably enough. Thrust. Can you pronounce that? Yeah, I can. That's going to come in handy. Great, great, great, great. Okay. Dane. Dane. Dane Aitos. Dane. Dane Atoes is a strong name. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, great. Here's the big picture. This is where we're going to start. Big picture. We're going to start here. Gertie picture.

Is this the screen cap that they're going to pick for the video? Okay. Oh, boy. Why'd they let us do this? Romanticy. What is it? Why is it a big deal? Okay, so we mentioned a series called A Quarter Thorn and Roses.

Yes. Sarah J. Moss, who has written not only the series of Quarter Thorn and Roses, but also Throne of Glass and Crescent City. just to give you, if you're listening to this or watching this and you are like, I've heard a bit about romanticcy, but I'm not sure. Is it all that popular? Why is it worth talking about, et cetera? Well, it's worth talking about to see the look on Mallory's face every time she says something that my shock could delay you and preferably to delete you.

But Sarah J. Mass has sold over 38 million copies worldwide of her books. A lot. And the TikTok tag hashtag Akatar has 8.9 billion views. Good God. That's a lot. Oh my God. So suffice to say it's popular. Perhaps even more popular is the very recent phenomenon of Rebecca Yaros' Imperian series, which the newest book, Onyx Storm, sold 2.7 million copies in its first week, which is a 20-year record for literature marketed towards adults. Sheesh. How are you feeling about that, about the widespread, money, money, popularity of romanticising? Yeah. I feel wonderful about it. This is exciting.

exciting. It's, I'm new to Romanticy. Yeah. So part of what's fun about doing this pod and talking about this with you is this is like a new journey of discovery in so many ways for me and for a lot of people. So I read Fourth Wing between, that came out in May of 2023, Iron Flame came out in November of 20203, two books to kick off the series in the same year. Breke-Yaris is prolific, but they had both been like part of this. The fact that they were both going to come out in the same year was part of this initial publishing strategy, right? So that obviously like, helped to stoke a lot of the fervor around it that you weren't going to have to wait long.

You end each of these books. You're very excited to dive into the next. So my book club, my book club with my college pals, one of our friends said, guys, we got it. This is like everywhere. Yeah, you can't, you can't escape it. That friend is obsessed with the Court of Thorns and Rose's books. And I had seen, literally seen her read them for the first time. It was on one of our friend trips a few summers ago. And I watched her get through like a full book. And those are long books in like half a day. She could not put them down. So I knew that this genre had a grip on somebody who not only I love and care about, but who I spent a lot of time reading books with and discussing books with. She said, we got to read Fourth Wing. We read it pretty close. I can't remember exactly when to when Iron

Flame was coming out. And then we read Iron Flame over the winter. So we read both of those pretty close together. And two of the five members of the book club had already read in four. full a court of thorns and roses by then. And so the other three of us decided we should probably break off squad battle, much like in the other series, Imperian. And then they both started reading and I was like, I'm right. I'm taking it don't have time. Why did I suggest this? And so I came to that very late quite recently. But that's a very long way of saying, like, whether it's because somebody in your life is recommending it or because your book club is reading it or because you're reading the times piece about the trend, or because you're seeing book talk, the posts everywhere, or having a book talk

experience curated for you personally by a dear friend who is solely responsible for your TikTok algorithm, who could it be? Then it just was like the kind of thing that was inescapable genuinely. And that's a really fun thing. It's fun when people are excited about books. It's fun when people are excited about a new story and a fictional world. And they're sharing it in, yeah, like at the same time or even the same sort of moment in time, approximate moment. And so, like, I think this is great. Obviously, it's not for everyone. And that's also totally fine. But the fact that there are so many things churning out and people can, like, figure out what it's all about together and talk about it in real time with other people who are reading it, too. Delightful. What about you? Yeah, I,

I read a quarterthorn and roses. I haven't read it through the whole series, but I read several of the books. I'm on the third book. During the pandemic. Yeah. Because people had just been talking about it on book talk. There's this thing with, with, I'm not chiefly on book talk, but there is this, there is this degree of fervor around certain titles that'll rise to the level that I will take notice and I will say, wow, I want to know what that is. Right. If, if Akatar is this popular, quarterthorne and roses, or if fourth wing is this popular, surely they're probably going to make a TV show or a movie out of it. And I want to have opinions about that before that comes out. And so I read a quarter of Thorn and Roses during the pandemic. And then I read

Fourth Wing really early. Like, I think if it came out in May, I think I read it in like June. Yeah. Something like that, like really, really fast. And then I was like, okay. Yeah. We talked about it a a little bit. You hadn't read it yet. Right. And then I had heard, I didn't love, love, love it. And we'll talk about that in a second. But you and I talked about it a little bit. I talked about it a little bit on the pod. And then I had heard that Iron Flame, a lot of people thought Iron Flame wasn't as good. Yeah. And I was like, well, if Fourth Room wasn't my favorite thing. Right.

I'm just not going to read Iron Flame because, like, it's fine. I think I understand what this is. Yes. And then we wanted to do this. Yeah. And you wanted to talk about Honning Storm. Yes. So that's when I, I would say, binged the books over the last week and a half.

It was a reread for Fourth Wing, but it was my first time through Iron Flame, which was not, it was not demonstrably different, I thought, than Fourth Wing. It's flaws were overreported to me, I would say. And then onyx storm, I just finished last night. And the point you make about community, which is something I want to talk about inside of this, is so important because I read Akitar in like literal isolation. No one I knew in my life was reading it. And we were like in COVID. We were all in lockdown. I wasn't like on the message boards or inside a community reading it or inside a book club reading it.

I read fourth wing again, sort of in isolation of my own curiosity, kind of like some people in my life, read it since, but like at that time, no one was reading it, except all the millions of people on book talk, but like I wasn't in conversation with them. And so reading the books over the last week and a half and talking to you about them a little bit, hearing what your husband Adam thinks of them, et cetera, et cetera, hearing from getting all these emails from our listeners, the bad maybes about it, I felt inside the community. And so then all of a sudden, like, the flaws that I find in the books, which are there and you and I like both agree on them, yeah, yeah. Matter less, then just sort of like we're all enjoying something.

We got a lot of emails from listeners that are just sort of like calling it popcorn or fast food, which is not to dismiss it. They're like, I loved this. I love consuming it. And it doesn't, it's a lot of empty calories, but there's no problem with that. And there are good things that come from that too. So I want to talk about what's in the mix here for Romanticie. It's a, you can sort of track the reading habits across the last 20, 30 years. You think about the kids who are raised in Harry Potter, who then move into the Twilight era, who then are watching Game of Thrones on TV.

This is basically a lot of the stories that we were enjoying in the YA space like Hunger Games or Shadow and Bone or a bunch of different ones, plus a lot of sex. And so now it's in an adult space. And so it is a fantastical adventure with dragons or Faye or or. or whatever the case may be, but also a lot of adult content along with it. So a little 50 shades in there as well, if you prefer. It's very sex positive, which I love. Same. And very sex positive, like, for women.

Like, it is, it's not, like, whatever your feelings about romance, there were stereotypes about romance when I grew up that, like, women were all sort of frail and fainting and sex sort of, like, happened to them. Right. And that's not really the case at least. with these books. You know what you mean? Like women are full of agency, not just inside of their own fantastical adventures that they're having, but also in these like sexual assignations as well.

That's one of the things that I, while I am new to it, you know, so I finished the first two court books. Yeah. Second one was fucking dynamite. Second one's really good. You told me it was going to be great and boy was it. Oh, my lord. Yeah. And I have read obviously the first three Imperian books. I started the third court book and look forward to reading that soon and to checking out some other series and other authors from there.

But so I'm five books in, you know, in my Romanticy journey, I'm new. But there are a number of things that have been compelling, but that point that you're making and that quality that you're citing is so affirming and genuinely cool to see. Like Violet and Farah

and other characters in the story have as much sexual desire and passion as any of the dudes around them. And that's an exciting thing to see normalize and to see like a lot of people exposed to. Also, what a time to be alive where millions and millions and millions and millions and millions of people are reading books about how important the female orgasm is. This is a thing. And like, okay, so alongside this romanticity journey, I've been on like this fan fiction journey just for like the last couple years.

We're going to talk about that. I have a little like fan fiction section to get to. But those are also like very smutty, very spicy. And I was never like a, a smutty, spicy, a book reader at all. But reading them, I was like, you know who I should read this? Are like, this is a very heteronormative take,

but I'm like, young men who feel like they don't know what they're doing. Yeah. And I feel like often they're like, it's an instruction manual. Yeah, they're like, oh, I should go watch porn to understand. No, no, no, no.

You should read Romanticia or fan fiction where the female orgasm is like centered. Again, if you're, if your agenda as a... Centered in a swirling tongue. If your agenda is the pleasure. of your female partner, so let's take heteronormitivity out of it. Who cares who you are? If you are looking, if you are inexperienced sexually and you are looking to please your partner, might I suggest? Check out these tomes. These books. You will learn a great

deal. Mallory will do some drawings for you later. Yeah. I, I, my own, the, the inverse of that is I do wonder, I, my only fear is, you know, I hope this. isn't setting up a lot of people for a life of disappointment on the sex front. Not everyone's Reese. Not everyone's Aden. Yeah. You're not always going to blow up your furniture. No. Not a lightning bolt. Not every orgasm was so shattering. Not every sentence and your internal monologue will end with an

italicized or unraveled or shattered. Yeah. What did it were? But maybe more will. Maybe more will. If people read these books. It would be great. It would be great for everyone, I think. So very sex positive. Very sex positive. And then on that community front, it was like very air. tour.

Like that lovely like female friendship. Plenty of men read romance to see. Plenty of men went to go see Taylor Swift. So like I'm not I'm not saying that men aren't invited to this party. But like it is a space for women to connect with other women about these things. And stories that were often, they were often told they had to be embarrassed by. I remember my grandma read romance novels growing up. Yeah.

And she had like a little slip cover that she would put on the front of her. Yeah, to hide the shame. To hide it. There's no shame. Yeah. These are best-selling bangers. And also they don't put Fabio on the cover anymore. So, like, it's a... I mean, you know...

And we have lost something. As a result. I can totally remember walking through the grocery store and just, you know, the little side eye trying to just sneak a peek. They're like, what's Fabio up to now? He's on the... He's a pirate. Oh, my God.

Book talk has a lot to do with spreading the word on this. But I really like this point from Christine Larson, who's the author of Love and the Time of Self-Publishing about sort of the romance, romance-sy boom. She said, quote, people are feeling unsettled right now. Women especially are often feeling powerless. And the heroine in these books have power. Yes.

They gain power and they find love interests who are their equals. That's important to him right now to imagine a different world, end quote. The thing about, let's say specifically in the Imperian saga, Zaden, is that he has like a competency kink. He's just sort of like, I love when you're smart. I love when you're strong. I love this and that and the other thing. I get off on how like badass you are.

And this is just like a great thing across these novels. It's just sort of like I love your accomplishments. It's not Violet saying Zayden so smart and so strong and so handsome, which he is. And she does say that. Yes. But it's at the end. And this thing as well. You know what I mean?

I love that's a great point. I love that. And like not only do, and again, we're in full spoiler territory for both series here, right? Not only are Zaden and Reese ever renewing resources on that front, right? It's just a wellspring of adoration and adulation.

They are clearly the right choices for that reason. Tamlin wants to keep Fahara shut up, locked up, so worried about her safety and harm and there's no trust, right? Dane, at the beginning of fourth wing, is like supposed to be the guy that Violet ends up with right up to the, you know, very amusing and painful for Dane payoff in Onyx Storm when they're working their way through the world finally and Violet has discovered her father's journals and people who knew him, and they're like, it's going to be Dan Aetis.

It's got to be Dana A's. It was Zayden. And like, Dane didn't trust Violet when she arrived at Vascaith and decided to leave the scribe life behind and become a rider to make the decisions that were right for her and that she knew were right for her. And so how could he be right for her? He was trying to protect her. She's so fragile.

He's trying to protect her. Yeah. And Zaden's like, you can protect. Let me show you how to get stronger. Yeah. Let me help you. But like, you can protect everyone. you're the strongest you can protect me and also you're the most important thing and let's fuck.

Yeah, it's great. We have this email from our listener, Emily. Okay. I like it. It's good. I was told there was a new sound drop for the mailbags and I said out loud, is it moaning? Yeah. And you told me it was not.

A little smoocheroo. I love it. From Steve Olman, who saw the set deck that John Richter had done and was like, I can play. Here's the thing about the set deck and the sound effects from just the greatest team there is. Not only is it wonderful. Not only does it show a commitment and a creativity. It is tasteful. And I want to just say thank you for your restraint. Because somebody had to have it today. Makes no promises. Okay. So Emily asks, what do you make of the narrative surrounding books like Fourth Wing as, quote,

Dragon Smut or a series like Akitart being called Fairy Porn? Is this a misogynistic slight aimed at what is predominantly female red genre books? Or is it just always seems that mainstream publishing slash literary wants to put genres like romance or romance or romanticcy down and declare them as unsurious? Or do we just fully embrace the smut and own it as what we like to read? And we got several emails like this. And you and I were talking about this the other day. I was like, the first time I heard dragon smut or fairy porn, they came. they came loud and proud from people who love these books and have no shame reading these books.

So I only ever heard it as a term from like inside of the reading community who were just sort of like, I love my dragon's book or I love my fairy porn books. So I know I'm sure that there are plenty of people who want to sneer at people enjoying a lot of sex inside of their fantasy books. but I don't think these terms necessarily need to be you know something just like own it, yeah. Yeah, I love that.

It's not, I'm sure you're right that there are people out there who it's like there's a derisive quality but like it's a badge of honor, right? Or it can be at least. This is a thing that is bringing people joy and that's awesome. So like let's just say out loud

what it is without any shame. Exactly. Fantastic. Similarly, our listener, Kelly asked, and this is a, thank you. This is genuinely something, you sent me your husband Adams review of Fourth Wing, and I sent you a similar review of Ony Storm, which is like, this is not the finest prose we've ever read. We've got some issues with some plot stuff and some confusing whatever. Can't wait to read the next one.

Oh, my God. Right? Yes. So Kelly asks, how do we think we should talk about the genre in a way that acknowledges its faults and pushes for higher quality? Well, not dismissing the real entertainment and joy we get from these horny books. So, like, are we allowed to talk. I mean, we are allowed to talk about it. But like, I think I was having some action.

Before I read through the whole Imperial series, read back through and got really excited about it, I was a little bit actually dreading this podcast because I was like, I don't want to be the wet blanket. I don't, like, there's two wolves inside of me. And one of them is Malory Rubin and the other one is the internet. Andy Greenwald. And like, sometimes my inner Andy Greenwald could come out. And I'm just sort of like, I've read better written books. Oh, of course. You know, like, blah, blah. And this, that and the other thing. And so, like, how do I talk about these books? And going back through them or going through two of them for the first time, I'm just sort of like, I just had fun. So who cares? Like, it's not, it's not the best

book ever. And do I wish that, like, some better written books were as popular as these books? I do. Yeah, of course. But also we got a lot of emails for people on. I'm going to talk about them a second, who used these books as sort of gateway to reading a bunch of other books when they had felt like stalled out and that sort of stuff. Yeah. So what do you think about this? So I think that like a couple things. Broadly, I don't think that with any book in any genre or any show or movie, like whatever it might be, that every single person who consumes it is going to or should feel the same way about it. Like there are going to be people no matter how highbrow or lowbrow or how.

how, like, stunning or basic anything is who think it's Shakespeare, and they're going to be people who think it's trash and don't understand why other people like it. And then there's, like, an ocean of possibility in between always, right? Yeah. So I think if there are people who read any of these books and think genuinely, not only did I love this and have fun, but I thought every aspect of this was amazing. Yeah. I thought the writing was lyrical and beautiful.

I thought the world building was the most immersive and gripping. that I'd ever encountered. Yeah. I think that's great. And like I don't, you know, I don't, I don't know that this will be the last book. Like you said, like, for the gateway idea is very tantalizing. And so, like, then it leads you to more and you discover more. And maybe it remains your favorite and maybe it doesn't.

I think there will be people who read these books and think, like, a lot of it actually is not for them. But there are things that are still compelling about it. And then again, like an ocean of possibility in between. My relationship to, I feel like. I'll hit Imperion first because I have a slightly different experience with the the Cord of Thornton's

roses books. The first book, Fourth Wing, I actually found some of the lore, like some of the mythology, interesting and cool. Like specifically the

signet and the mental bond between the writer and their dragon. Like when Violet is hearing Taryn in her head, I'm just like, cool, this is great, this is my shit, right? However, that's the same thing that I enjoyed on the world building front in the first place has become one of my bigger gripes about the story as I go, which is like the real, I think, what the Cigna set up allow, like, upset. It's just constant day asex Machina where like there's just the way the story has been struck. It allows constantly for the thing that needs to be introduced in that moment to be introduced in a way that actually typically like drives me crazy as a reader. She also does this thing where the lore is constantly expanding, which just means she, I feel like she changed her mind about how something should work.

And so then like all the sudden, like, the wards don't do this or these people can wield when we thought they couldn't wield or this, that and the other thing. And that's like, it's not the end of the world, but it's just something like when we get to a theory corner, I've been like dabbling in the red. theory is about what's coming next. Oh, I haven't done that at all. I'm excited to dive in. And I'm like, I think you guys are, unfortunately, I feel like the rules are constantly shifting under our feet inside of the series. Right. So to craft a theory, you need to know how the rules of the magic work. And the magic is constantly changing. Changing. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like the, yeah. So that's been something that I have like had a mixed experience with as I've gone through the series. The prose is not always for me, I will say. I have found the plot to be quite

predictable, like even by the standards of a predictable plot. So I don't, I'm not like this is the, this is just, you know, a 10 out of 10. No, no, it's the best thing I've ever read. But there are things I really like about the world and the story. I think Violet's a really cool protagonist. Same. And I just, I mean, on. surprisingly and obviously like I'm just like enraptured by Zayden. Yeah. Probably the least surprising thing I've ever said on a podcast. And I, I'm interested in their journey.

And I'm interested in the squad dynamic is something I really love about the world. As you know, I love a magic school. I love a school for magic. And I love dragon riding. So that part is fun. I was really glad in Onyx Storm to finally like brought in the map to go to some new places. That was the best part of Onyx Storm. Probably my favorite part of the stories overall so far, actually.

I think a heavy critique that people had a fourth wing was that the world building felt very shallow. We're at Best Guy if we understand you're either a scriber or a writer, but like what else exists in the world. And so we went to a few other places in Iron Flame, but the tour of the aisles that they do in Onyx Storm was probably my favorite part of the book. I thought that was really cool. Yeah.

So like I'm interested in that and I'd like more of that. And I think that stuff is a little bit more compelling to me than like, frankly, the core dark-wielder, you know, Venin dynamic, mostly just because I feel like we all assume we know how that will resolve. It's just a matter of exactly how we get there. But maybe not. Maybe everybody becomes Venin. Everybody goes Venin. And then we're all just walking around with not only throbbing members, but throbbing veins on the temples of our faces. So yeah, and just to then kind of wind back from some of my specific feelings about it to that overall point. I would say like, I think that maybe because of the first thing we were talking about

with like, what is Romantician? Who is it for? Who do people think it's for? Yeah. I think there's, and this makes complete sense to me, maybe like more people are bracing, right, for a thing that they love to be critiqued or to be like attacked. Yeah. This isn't good. This is like, this, why do you think this is so great? And that sucks. So I get that there's, There's like, well, wait, like, why do you not think this is good? This is great? Or why do you think this is great? This isn't. But we don't have to, like, live in those extremes. So, I have had quite a good time reading all three books, despite my notes. I had far and away the most notes about Iron Flame. Iron Flame, I tore through and then got on my book club call

and I was like, in real time, I couldn't stop, like, asking questions and saying, and then just running through all the notes I had. I thought Fourth Wing was really fun. And I enjoyed Onyx Storm, quite a bit actually. But all of the overall critiques that I have are intact and the overall things that I like about the story are intact and then there's a little bit of like mileage varying book to book. What's your experience been with those three? Yeah, well, I would say,

I think Violet is a much, a protagonist that I enjoy much more than I enjoy Farah, but I think Saraje Amass's prose is a bit better. Something that Rebecca Yaros does inside of her books is there's a lot of contemporary, like the swearing I don't mind because I'm not like a prude about it, but I feel like she used the swearing in the first book especially as just sort of this placeholder for like, I'm tough. There was just like a lot of like fucks and shits and dams inside of there. And also just like a lot of contemporary things that we would say. And so which is fine. It's not the end of the world. But like you and I since were used to sort of like higher fantasy with like flowery language. and that sort of stuff, it was like a little. But what I like about that is that that then means there isn't this high barrier of entry for people. People feel these are compulsively readable books.

And so when people start them and they feel like they can't stop them and then they keep reading. I just wanted to check in with like a couple other emails we got from like Nicola who said between 2014 to 2023 that she had read maybe 10 books in total. That's almost a decade at one novel a year. then she read Akitar in one week. That's like my pal. And she said I felt like I was a teenager again, staying up all night, reading, waiting for my coffee while reading, reading on my lunch break. It was like magic. Since starting Akitar in September last year, I've gone on to read almost 60 books, the bulk of which fall into a romantic genre, but I've also revisited more traditional fantasy stories, ventured back into broader dystopian stories, think I who I've never known men, that's a great book,

and wool, and return to my sci-fi roots. My love note is this, quote, Dear Romantici, thank you for reminding me of the joy I could find in stories. Thank you for bringing me into this community of women and like-minded men who love to lose themselves in these stories. Thank you for helping me prioritize reading. Thank you for helping those of us lost to life stuff, find our way back to the stories that fill our hearts with equal parts, sorrow, and joy. How lovely.

I just love that. Yeah, that's the best. I love that. Wonderful. So, like, the fact that these books, Akatar and the Imperian series both are easy to read, readable, I don't see that as like a negative at all. I see that as an advantage because, yeah, once you start that, once you start that momentum, you know, and you're just like reading and reading and then all of a sudden you're just like, oh my God, this feels so great. What else am I going to read? What am I going to read next? What am I going to read next? That's like the best feeling in the world. I used to talk about that all the time because I remember I'm a bit older than you. And so I remember when Harry Potter came out, there was a lot of sneering around Harry Potter of like kids are only reading or Twilight for that matter. Like kids are only reading one thing. Why are they? just reading this one thing. Aren't there better kids' books out there or whatever?

And I'm just sort of like, people are reading and they're excited about reading. And getting excited about reading means they'll be excited to read other things. And all of that's great. And that doesn't mean that, like, I think Harry Potter is bad. I just mean I think Harry Potter is a way to open you up to a whole world of stories. And, you know, similarly Twilight, Hunger Games, whatever it is, it's their... And that's a gift. Like Rebecca Yaros, it's a gift to be able to craft a story that people are like, I can't wait to find out what happens next.

Even a story that you and I both agree, we can see a lot of the twists and turns coming. She's ending her books on cliffhangers. And we're like, dun, don't, done, done. Like, let's get the next volume out. And now that we're done with Onic Storm. If the next one we're out right now, we would start it today. We would. Yeah.

We would start it today. We would. And we would do so gladly. Yeah. We already talked about sort of like what prompted us to start our Romantasy journey. I also want to mention that I was curious because reading romance, I'm aware of the tropes of fantasy. I was way less familiar with the tropes of romance. So I was like, what are some of the other like big romance?

And also in the vein of they're probably going to make a movie or a TV show out of this. And they are making, so Amazon, right, is making Imperian as a series. And then Hulu is supposed to be doing Akitar, but that's a bit stalled right now. Right. And so Ron Moore, like, left the production? Yeah, yeah. crushing. Too bad.

I'm my guy, as you know. But I just want to say that I read all of the Emily Henry books and all of those books, I believe, are currently in production as adaptations. Emily Henry is, like, hugely popular. Her books are really fun. They're not as smutty as these books. They're modern romances, but they're like, all of her characters are, like, pop culture fluent, and they all, like, talk in, like, movie references and stuff like that. It's really fun.

Ali Hazelwood, who started as a, like, Raylo fan fiction writer. Oh, hell yeah. So if you look at her, if you look at her book covers, all of the characters look like they are Kylo Ren and Ray, but they're all set in the world of STEM. So they're all, like, female scientists. Her latest book just came out. I took a pause between Iron Flame and Ony Storm, and I read her latest book, which is called Deep End. And we actually had a listener right in recommending that you read it because it is, it is, it is, crazy smutty.

And I think you might have a great time with that one. Deep end. Deep end. Yeah. Great. You read another book in the last? I'm like processing that in real time. How is that possible?

These books are quick reads. And also I had to pack up my entire life to move down here for two months. So I needed something to listen to for some of that. And then Christina Lauren and Abby Jimenez. And then I just sort of was like, okay, I feel like I get it. I don't think it's like necessarily my existence. exact genre, but there are some writers in that world that I think are interesting and I want to follow. We got some wrecks from the bad babies of other books for people to read if they liked

these books. Some people, including me. I'm ready. Hit me. The main one is Throne of Glass, which is Sarah Jamass's other series, which I think a lot of people like even better than Akatar is more popular. But I think for people who like both, a lot of people prefer throne of glass. So that also, I think, is in development somewhere for an adaptation. And people are not as high on the Crescent City? Crescent City, I think, is like her least popular of the series. Interesting.

Poppinsendragons to Gmail.com, if you disagree with me, Lexi suggested something called The Assistant to the Villain series by Hannah Nicole Mayer. I looked it up. This one is spice level low, smut level low. Okay. But it features a cast of characters. I feel you all wouldn't agree need their own merch immediately, including an ogre who loves to bake and a dragon named Fluffy. Wonderful.

Fantasy, like more romance than like smut mans. You know what I mean? Sex mans. Katie, meanwhile, has a spicy wreck. And she says from Blood and Ash slash Flesh and Fire prequel series, Jennifer L. Armand Trout. She says, I literally got a dagger with poppies for the female mom. main character poppy. And then she also recommends Zodiac Academy

Prequel and sequel series by Sisters Caroline Peckham and Susan Valenti. Zodiac Academy is one that I've seen. Sisters are co-authoring the How does that feel? The Smut Books? Yeah. Would you write with a sibling? I personally would not. No. But I would I would write with a friend. Oh, I mean. I would yell yeah. That would be thrilled.

The Zodiac Academy I have seen a lot of people recommend. Katie says, FY I don't read these at work if you have downtime. Try us. Not safe for work. Try us. Try us. We're at work right now, baby. Taye recommended once upon a broken heart by Stephanie Garber.

Wait, on that, don't read at work front. What's the most like, oh my God, I can feel my cheeks burning experience you've had reading something really sexy in public? In public. Yeah. I try not to, I don't do that in public. Okay. It's funny because I was like, same. Tell me.

Tell me your's immediately. I mean, you will appreciate this. You will love it. You're the perfect person to tell. When I was reading a song of ice and fire for the first time. And so you don't know. Unlike, so, I mean, when I'm reading Imperian books, like, I am prepared at any point for a graphic sex scene and I am reading these alone. But with Thrones,

like I was routinely reading on the subway on the way to and from work in New York. Yeah, I miss the subway or out on a bench. I miss having the opportunity to read on the way to work, but I don't, I don't miss being on a subway. You see my response every time we come in here to the temperature in the room. You can imagine how I am. on a subway. Plus all the aromas. My God. I do miss the New York City.

No. But I have such a vivid memory of reading the Lord's Kiss. John and Eagred in the cave for the first time on the subway, very aware that a seemingly very sweet old lady was like reading it over my shoulder. And I was just like. And you kept on Cape Beyond? Oh, I wasn't going to stop. Were we kindling or paperbacking?

I was reading because I was in transit, I was reading on a Kindle. Okay. Yeah, I was reading on a Kindle. Highlighting. She was watching. I was highlighting. I think I probably saved the highlighting for later. But yeah, I was like, oh boy, this is, she's just reading.

She is reading and watching me read this. And that is an experience that we have shared. I have had the experience, again, I'll talk about fan fiction a second, but like, fan fiction is one of those where, like, oftentimes there's nothing, there's nothing. And then all of a sudden you're in the chapter that earned the second. thing. It's e-rating. And E for explicit. If that happens to me, I will close that down and I'll be like, save it for later. But there's no shame in the game of reading that stuff in public is how I feel about that. And I also think that like, we got a couple of emails about this and this is a prevailing narrative I've seen where some people are like, why is the song of vice and

fire not called dragon smut? Because George does write sex scenes and like, George wrote a sex scene where, I mean, listen, pink mast is a term in the fandom for a reason. Sweet Sam, suckled on. Yeah, but I just, here's the deal. A teat full of breast milk and he loved it. I think George is incredibly bad at writing sex scenes. And personally, and I don't think anyone rings a song of ice and fire for the sex scenes. Correct. Yeah. Right. So I don't, whereas people, people, can identify chapter and verse the sections of the Imperian saga that

involve acrobatic violent sex scenes. I told you this already to this point. Yeah. I, you know, our phones are spying on us, etc. I have been served so many, so many reels.

Yeah. About Onyx Storm. And I was trying to avoid spoilers, but also, like, the memes are good. Yeah. The reels are good. So I was watching some of them. And there was one. Because you already knew, I was ahead of you in Onig Storm, and you were like,

where's the slut? And I was like, so chapter 40-9. You knew the exact chapter that I was waiting to get to because I had seen an incredible Instagram reel. I wish I could remember. I'm so sorry. I wish I could remember who posted it where the woman was. Well, I'm going to save it because we're going to get to that later. but on the chair and doing the thing.

And then her partner walks in and she flops down. He's like, what are you doing? Reading? Reading? And I was like, oh my God. You can't wait to find out what this is about. Incredible. And then I did.

And then I did. A couple other wrecks. Tea recommended this one's also light on the smut. Once upon a broken heart. Larry recommended I roved out in search of truth and love. a web comic by Alex Flowers. And he said, Larry said, though not necessarily romantic, it is certainly sexy trope and some of the most beautifully rendered comic art I've found NSFW in the highest order.

The amount of bodily fluids portrayed crosses the border of Silly and travels deep into the land of absurd. I hope you enjoy an Elvis Rolp with Cinder and Mary. Are you going to be consuming this? I'm ordering it immediately. Wow. Geez, okay. The amount of bodily fluids portrayed crosses the bottom. I'm eager to explore. eager to explore further. Last not least, Maggie says Millivane's heart of blood and ashes, oftentimes

my issue with books labeled Romanticies is that they are never true melding of both genres. A heart of blood of ashes is to me a perfect 50-50. We have some truly classic fantasy elements in this book, and the romance feels specific to the story and true. Also, Mal, there is a really good smut in this. Like, really good. In the second point, book, yes, I've smuggled a second book wrecked to this. Please be proud. We are. The best friend of the two leads, different couple in this book, is a giant snow cat named Caleb who descended from a god. You will love him. I already do. Yeah. I already do. That one seems of all the wrecks, I feel like Maggie really nailed you. Oh my God. Jeez. Wow. Fanfiction Corner, are you ready?

I'm thrilled to be back on Fan Fiction Corner with you. Okay. It's always a treat. We're honored to get this update from you. You've given us a couple glimpses into your consumption previously, and I am, I and I know the bad babies have been eager for an update. I'm not a fan fiction, like, expert. I really have just one thing that I read. You have a particular passion, yeah. And what's funny about this, which is, if you've not listened to me to talk about this before, it's the very, very extremely popular, Draco and Hermione, Drominy, Harry Potter fan fiction. Yes. And, um, reading Violet and Zaden

and reading Farah and Reese, they're all so germini-coded, it's not even funny. This is just the same dynamic over and over and over again, and we all really like it. So this is what's true. And in terms of like germini and romantasy, like obviously there's magic,

there's like magical creatures, there's all the sort of stuff inside of these stories. There is a whole subsect of, Harry Potter fanfiction, which is like, A.U, non-magical. And it's just like, Hermione and Draco go to university and they're normal people. And I'm like, that's not for me. I don't want that. I want the magic spells.

I want all the other things that come with it. So this is romanticity to me, is the Dramani fan fiction. So Lexi run into ask if we were tapped in on all of the Draco and Hermione fanfic that is being adapted in a traditionally published novels. this year. Lexi says the stories have unlocked both a new way to engage with the characters while being a bit detached from J.K. Rolling. And more importantly, a deep

yearning in my heart for Draco that may in fact rival Mao's feelings for young Harrison Ford. Come on. I mean, wow. You say that. What a bar. Until you read some germini, I feel like you need to sort of press pause on your laughing. I mean, young

Harrison Ford, it's just, oh, no, I'm not scoffing. I'm just saying this would mean that it was the most appealing thing in the history of the The world. It genuinely might be. Great. Okay. Here's, here are the three books that are coming out quite soon. Okay. Tell me. The big one is a book called Alchemized by Sun Lin-U, which was a story called Manicold. It's coming out summer 2025. Manicold was on A.O3, which is the fan fiction website, archive of our own. You can sort by popularity. Yeah. Kudos. Manicold was at the top of the Dramini thing since I started. reading it through now. It is by far and away the most popular

Dremontie fan fiction. It is quite long. It is quite dark. It's got some like handmade's tale elements to it and that sort of stuff like that. So basically what she's done, she's taken that story and I mean, 50 Shades of Grey started as Twilight fan fiction. Like this is an old thing where you just sort of like reskin the fan fiction you've written. So she is

taken out all the Drake and Hermione, renamed the characters, but the story remains the same. Got it. Interesting. There's one called The Irresistible Urge to Fall for Your Enemy by Brigitte Knightley, which was this other, I would say, the second most popular Germani fan fiction, Draco Malfoy and the Mortifying Ordeal of Being in Love, which is coming out July 2025. And last but not least, Julie Soto, Rose and Chains, which was a story called The Auction,

coming out July 2025. Draco Malfoy and the Mortifying Ordeal of Being in Love, if you can't tell, from the title. And I talked about both Manichold and this one on our Valentine's Day pod last year before they were, I think, traditionally published. That one's more of a rom-com. Like, very lighted tone, very funny. This is a really interesting moment for traditional publishing. They're, of course, looking for romanticity wherever they can find it based on the numbers that they found. Yeah. And fan fiction is a really good place to go diving for them. You've got a story that's like pretty much already written. People already like it. And all the people who have already read Manacold are automatically going to read Alchemized.

You know, they've already read it, but they're going to read it again. So what level of tweaking beyond the character names is there typically? I don't, I don't, it depends. Yeah, there's various. Yeah. You can, you can, because I think if you read 50 Shays not knowing it was Twilight fan fiction, I don't think you would think that had anything to do with Bella and Edward. But things like Red, Right, Royal Blue, a very popular book that's based on, I talked about this last time I think, fan fiction about Jesse Eisenberg.

You know, like, it's the fan fiction has the origin for stories. You can dramatically re-skin or you can write lightly reskin. But either way, Dramine is super popular and the publishers are taking notice. And if, like, alchemized as a book takes off, then we're going to get, like, an alchemized. mini-series, you know what I mean? It's all going to be, it's all perfectly legal and above war. In terms of, like, how much do you tweak it? Yeah.

You definitely tweak it enough that J.K. Rowling cannot sue you for it, you know? And what I'm interested in is how much is, how much is, how much of what was in manicold is tweaked. Yeah. Is, like, not just in terms of good. No, no, that's what I mean. Yeah. Like, is it, are sometimes people writing a fanfic that is seven chapters and then the book

version is going to be. 45. Like how much expanding of the story is it or is it actually like we're just changing the names and publishing this as well. I would say Manicold, which was a very long. Fanfic is not going to be sort of probably expanded on. Though I believe that the one based on the auction is going to be a duology. Okay. So I think that, you know, she was probably going to expand on that one.

But in terms of like not getting sued, fan fiction itself falls under this sort of like fair use because you're not you're not profiting from it. is free for people to read, and so you're not profiting from it. So you cannot get sued by Rowling or anyone else unless you are selling it. And there was this whole drama inside the fan fiction community where people were taking fan fictions, putting them out, binding them and selling them on Etsy or stuff like that. So that you could have a physical copy of the beautiful cover that you loved. But that violates. And people are getting in trouble for that. That violates legally.

And so a lot of people were taking their fan fictions down because, like, there was no controlling it. Anyway, a whole drama. Geez. And better news. Yeah. And we are going to get back to the dragon smut in a second. But though sometimes there are dragons in these stories as well. I should hope so.

Shania and Carolyn both wrote in. This just like really pleased me. Both of them wrote in to say that a fanfic that I read that I recommended last year, DeTrek A. Yes. Was not only their favorite fanfic they read, it was their favorite thing they read last year. And I'm here to tell you it was in progress when I recommended last year. It has since finished. finished. So Shania was like, what did you think of the ending?

You loved it. I'm here to tell you, and I just preach for so long about how we should not be embarrassed about the things we love. Yeah. This might be one of my favorite books of all time. Great. Genuinely. Oh, my God. I keep revisiting sections of it. I think it is incredible.

So if you've not read- De Trache, if you are a fan fiction reader and you've not read this, if you're a Dermite reader, if you've not read this, if you're anything, you've not read this, I can. I just think it is one of the best written things I've ever enjoyed. And that's a good entry point for people who have not consumed any fan fiction and want to try something, you think? Is that a good starting point or build up to it? I might slightly build up to it. But like, especially if you're looking for, it does have an E for explicit, but it takes a while because we're with Hermione sort of like for a few years before she leaves Hogwarts, etc. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. Okay. Okay. And then I have some new recommendations. Amazing. My current obsession is a story called the Witch King in Wilshire. Hell yeah. Great title.

Yeah, isn't it so good? Really good. By, I think it's Quinn Akrid, one rose, I would say is the name of this author. It is one of the filthiest things I've ever. This is the thing for me. I'm so excited for you to be on your romanticity journey because you're like, wow, these sex scenes in the Imperian. And I'm like, yes. I love them.

And they're so. much more waiting for you. I mean, when we talked about this last year, I was like really eager to dive in. Because as I mentioned then, I used to read fan fiction in college all the time and loved it, but I just haven't, I don't know why. Haven't read it in years, not because I don't want to or wouldn't love it. So I am excited to get back into it. I, uh, it certainly, I know it's for me. But it certainly still has more of a stigma than I would say Romanticy does right now. The Witch King Wilshire is one of the filthiest things I've ever read in my entire life with the most lyrical, poetic prose. There's just full chapters of like the most bonkers things you've ever read with the most beautiful language you've ever read at the same time.

I can't get over. Every time she posts another chapter, it's just one comment for me that's just like, and I never comment on fan fiction. I'm like, this is the best thing I've ever read. This is the best thing I've ever read. This is the best thing I've read. It's so good. What do you do when you have the experience? where you find a story you love, it's in progress.

Yeah. And then it gets abandoned. Never finish. The Georgia R. Martin, if you will. It happens. Yeah. I remember. I remember experiencing that a couple times back in the day and it was like agonizing. Agonizing.

Or like sometimes there's just like a year-long pause and then it comes back and it feels like great thrilling. I'm just going to run through a couple other recommendations for folks. Chin Up by Nealistic is an in-progress one right now. also incredibly filthy. This is a face-off retelling, and it's really something. It's really funny. It's really, really smart, and it's very smutty at the same time. You Do It For Me by ZB3.

This is insanely smutty, but also very sweet. I cannot get over this one. You do it for me. It's just like, basically she started as, I think, a, like, a, single chapter experiment and that she just kept going with like how many other sort of like escalations can I write while maintaining the like tender heart of this story. It's quite amazing. Lionheart which is not incredibly smutty but it is very very very well written by green tea cup. One called bloody, slutty and pathetic by a writer called what murder what murder

is the name of the author. This is truly unhinged. sub-Drako. Draco is an absolute, like, criminal, but also he is the titular bloody, slutty, empathetic of this story. A hard road a hoe by Blessed Toaster, where Draco is an assassinism, very funny and very smutty. And last but last one least, I think I mentioned this last time, but I'm just going to do it again. Remember One Thing by Pacific Rimbaud, and this is not Germini. it is Pansy Parkinson and Neville Longbottom, which is like the second, second very, very

popular ship that's been growing and growing and growing inside of this community. Right. And it actually really, really works in a way that you would be surprised. Interesting. But this one's absolutely beautiful. Was the journey of discovery for that story? Like, okay, I'm on A.O3. I'm reading a lot of these stories.

I see that this is also popular. I'm going to check it out. It was more I really liked this author. And I was like, what else has she written? And this one was really popular. and I was like, oh, so that's about as far as we've gone. So that is, those are my recommendations. Wow.

And I think they're all really, really well written. Yeah. And most of them are also really, really, really filthy. So in the spirit of what we're here to do today. Great stuff. I was there Shannon Rodin asking for Steve and Bucky Stucky recommendations in the year of Thunderbolts. I don't, I have not read any Stucky fan fiction.

This seems astonishing to me. This is a clarion call to the bad babies. If you're a stucky fan fiction reader, send us, send us, Hops and Dragas of Gmail.com. I've not read any. And then Carolyn, and this is a good transition into our next section where I am going to hand the mic over to you. Carolyn says Romanticy is not my preferred genre of smut, but I'd like to recommend one specific piece of Akatar fan fiction, embers and light, by an author called Dusk and Starlight. And so, Akitar, we've talked a bunch about Empyrian. We mentioned Fahara and Reese, but you have, tell us a little bit more about your journey into Akitar.

And a year ago, I read you. You did. Some wing-based smut. You did. And you have since experienced the entirety of it for yourself. Boy, have I. Tell me your thoughts and feelings. So I'm really having fun with the series.

I had like, I had a little bit of a hard time getting sure. started with the first book, which I started last summer on a family trip to the Outer Banks. And then it ended up picking up and I got into a better rhythm with it when I got home. And I would say I enjoyed it, but I didn't love it. it. And I think one of the things that was slightly... So I sort of have, like, again, kind of a little bit of an inverted experience with this and Imperian, because I actually found this in a really kind of cool and exciting way, surprising to read. You know, like when Therra, again, spoilers,

I was not surprised, of course, because it's like the premise of the series, and I understood that, that... How the journey got started, right? that she's going to end up in the realm of the high fe. Yeah. Yeah. But I knew like nothing about the story beyond that. Nothing other than the completely out of context passage you had read for me.

Yeah. So everything with Talon at the spring cord. But like once we got under the mountain and we're like actually from the first moment that Reese appeared and then of course he's very present under the mountain. And the trials. Now, can I ask you a question? Now that you've read two different romanticcy things. Yeah.

When Reisch first shows up, were you like, oh, since I've met Zaden, I know what this is. So this was exactly what I was going to say next. So I enjoyed the mystery of the plot and what was going to happen when and everything that leads toward the high lords all, coming together to revive Pharaoh. I was like, okay, interesting. I found it disorienting to have read already at that point, Fourth Wing and Iron Flame, and then go to this, even though I know

and acknowledge that this came first. Because Reese and Zaden are so similar. Like, not just the, oh, you're kind of like, everybody thinks you're the bad guy and you're the asshole. but I'll be the one who sees your sweetheart that no one else is allowed to glimpse. Like literally the nature of some of their powers are the same. You know, like the shadow and the darkness and all that.

So that just was hard for me to... And credit to Lee Bardugo because the darkling and shadow and bone got there first before either resource or... Yeah, and like it's, you know, the fact that it is an archetype and obviously a potent one, an effective one, I think allowed me to get over it pretty quickly. It was like, at first I'm just like, okay, so clearly this is going to be the guy, not Tamlin.

And I had never really liked Tamlin. So that was... Nobody likes Tamlin. Yeah, I guess the first book is tough because nobody likes Tamlin. Yeah. And then she's like, it's a bait and switch. I was like, you took way too long with that bait to get to the switch. Yeah.

Yeah. And I think also then it's like probably if you did like Tamlin, that's a pretty bad feeling. Like, that's a tough one. Yeah. But book two missed in fury. So you had read me that very scintillating stretch. Um, my two pals who have read the series cover to cover multiple times and just love it. Amazing.

Both said that the second book was their favorite. So I was really excited to read the second book and really tore through it and loved it. And like the, um, on the, you mentioned the romance tropes, you know, that like forced proximity trope of like putting these people together and then you just kind of know that something's going to happen and you get your, excited to see when the characters start to admit to themselves what we know is inevitable, etc. It's just like formula that works for a reason. Yeah.

And the widening of that group and that friend said and like learning, again, the similarities are a little like, it has been a little bit distracting to me. Zadens got his private secret world and we learned that his true motives are X and same thing with Reese, right? So it's just very similar, but I did find it. In both cases, like that part to be pretty compelling, actually. So, you know, that's better than if the parts that have been super similar was less compelling. And I had the opposite experience where I read AtGatarr first.

And when I got to Fourth Wing, as soon as she meets Zaden on like the moment, I was like, oh, there's Reese. Okay. So, like, yeah, it depends which order you get into. You're like, oh, okay. Yeah, I think Zaden had imprinted on me. Yeah, of course. Right? So I was like, oh.

Okay, like, and we're just like doing Zaden again, even though again, for the record, I know, Greece came first. But I did, I had just ended up just like ensnared. Yeah. By recent bookbale. Yeah. Holy shit. And, you know, both of the series do this well.

The building and mounting and escalating of the sexual tension. Did you say building, mounting, and escalating? Building, mounting, escalating, quailing. A lot of talk of quailing. that like i mean i'm like because you're that you've got to be fucking patient in book two yes you're waiting you're waiting and waiting and then you're like they have wound up in this filthy fucking hotel room and there's only one bed yeah and even then you just get a taste of what awaits and i'm like yeah we're in the hands of an expert here.

This is just, my God. So that was really fun. I really enjoyed that book. And then actually, I immediately wanted to start the third book. I made a tragic mistake, which was I went to, I was out book shopping,

went to the skylight, one of my faves. Great. And I love it. And I, because I am an idiot and had not had enough coffee that there or something? I don't know. Picked up what I thought was the third book. Right, right, right.

And just looked at the back cover. It was the fifth book. But the first sentence of the back, I told me something I did not want to know. So I'm annoyed with myself for making that mistake. But then I grabbed the third book. And I started it right away, but this was all pretty recent.

And I actually decided, like, I was worried that if I read it and was like a halfway or three quarters of the way and then had to stop for Onyx Storm, again, it would be like disorienting and weird and that I didn't want to do that. So I read a couple chapters because I couldn't resist. And then I'm like, I'm going to put this away and wait. I knew we were on a timeline, right, for Ony Storm, both for this and because I'm reading it once again with my college pals for Book Club. We're discussing it in person together next week. Oh, fun. In plain year shot of strangers passing us at a cafe, presumably. Can't wait. And I'm looking forward to continuing it. So my understanding is that the

fourth book, which is like the novella, is not something people love. But we'll, we'll see. Yeah. We'll see. I've really enjoyed chatting with our colleague, Megan Schuster, about these stories. She's just torn through them, and we have a lot of fun talking about them. And, uh, community. Yeah. Community building. It's great. I love it. How, I mean, how did you feel? I read specifically the section, a section where they're talking, like, this is the thing about Romantici, specifically Romantici. We talked about how when Zadon and Violet have sex in all of these books, there's she, because we're basically bending elements a lot of time in this book series, she's a lightning

wielder, he's a shadow wielder. So it's just sort of like we're lighting things on fire with lightning. We're wrapping things with shadows. We're binding appendages with the shadows, which act as like sort of tentacles or like whatever. I feel like we could get much more imaginative. with the shadows than she's gotten with so far. We shall see. And with a quarterthorn roses,

like the fact that like this Reese, who is a fay, who has wings. Yeah. And the wings themselves have like erogenous zones to them. Yes, very sensitive. Like when you are writing like fantasy smut and you've got like soul bonds and mind bonds and all sorts of like that or like magic or this, that and the other thing, we can suspend things.

We can do this and that. that, it just gives you so much more opportunity inside of your smut writing that like your straight arrow romance writers don't get to play with. Totally. So like the wings of it all, how did that work for you? Wonderfully. Very well. Wonderfully. And even just honestly, before any of the sex scenes, like the fact that he, I mean, we learn to winnow.

That's very fun. But, you know, he's part Illyrian. He can fly. and that closeness, right, of, like, carrying her. It just, again, really helped to stoke that flame. But, yeah, also, like, the intimacy, because it's sex and it's passion, but there's, I think both of these series do a good job of using sex

for something that is obviously a deeply emotional thing for these couples, not just a physical thing. And so, like, with Reese and his wings, That maybe is my, I don't know, one of my favorite examples of that so far where, like, the wings are not only sensitive in a way that brings some pleasure. Like, there's danger there, right? There's trust. Yeah. And so to let somebody touch his wings is like an act of, a rare act of closeness and care that not a lot of people are afforded.

One of the great mental images that you can be treated to is the kneeling on the bed with the wings out and get to see the thigh tats for the first. time. Wonderful stuff. Did you look about any fan art? I did. So I have Googled, I will say, because I've not finished the series with extreme care, because I'm like actually really worried about getting spoiled. So, but I did want to see how people were drawing Reese.

So I googled him and just like really tried. And it was easy because I need corrective lenses. I need glasses and can't see. It was actually pretty easy to not see the words. And I just got to look at some. pictures, which was nice. And I have looked at, I have looked at some, some fan art for Zaden, though, that's, there's a whole, you know, that's a whole, a whole thing as well, right? Because fourth wing came out and so many people were drawing Zaden as a white character, and he is not.

He is not. So that was. Are you looking for support in your weight management journey? Zepbound terseptide may be able to help. Zepbound is a prescription medicine used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with obesity or some adults with overweight who also have weight-related medical problems to lose excess body weight and keep the weight off. Zepbound is approved as a 2.5, 5, 7.5, 10, 12.5 or 15 milligram injection. Zepound contains terseptide and should not be used with other terseptide containing products or any GLP1 receptor agonist medicines. It is not known if Zepound is safe and effective for use in children. Don't share needles or pens or

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in children. Don't share needles or pens or reuse needles. Don't take if allergic to it, or if you or someone in your family had medullary thyroid cancer, or if you've had multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2. Tell your doctor if you get a lump or swelling in your neck. Stop zep bound and call your doctor if you have severe stomach pain or a serious allergic reaction. Severe side effects may include inflamed pancreas or gallbladder problems.

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and Ed Harris now streaming on Paramount Plus. It's been an interesting conversation. Yeah. Okay. We've gone through some very sane and normal discussion of this. And now it's time... I actually think this has been quite tame. Oh, very tame.

Yeah, given how we teased it. Here we go. Yeah. Send the kids away. We're doing a segment that we're going to call... And this is Mallory's idea. Diagraming the top three Zaden and Violet sex scenes from the Imperial Saga. To be clear, and this is the nature of collaboration.

Yeah. I requested that we diagram one scene. Yeah. And you expanded it to three. sure did. And that is partnership. It's a trilogy. So we're going to get out some whiteboards that Mallory, that Mallory's sourced. Wonderful. Thank you to the team for hunting these down. For finding them. In response to my 9 p.m. Slack asking, do we have whiteboards? Do we have whiteboards from the live show from last year?

We've got one sex scene is your, okay, we've got one sex scene per Imperium book. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. They're all quite famous. I picked those. the most famous ones, would you say? Absolutely. And the Iron Flame one is Pantheon. God tear. I can't wait to get to that one.

We're going to start with fourth wing. Yeah. Spoiler, the Onyx Storm one is the one that I'm like, wait, what? That's the one that started this. So the first two are going to be easy. And then the third one, we're going to have some problems. Okay. I'm excited.

I'm going to read. Okay. I'm going to try not, yeah, because you're drawing. So I'm going to read. I'm going to try not to die of embarrassment. I'm happy to read them if you prefer. You let me know. To tap me in.

Once again, the all-mail lineup in the production booth over there for being here with us today. Yes. Fourth Wing. Okay. Furniture Demolition Derby. And this is a Yellow Jackets reference. This credenza is a fuckfest. Fuck fest.

Wait, quick show of hands. Have any of you read these books or will this be your first exposure to these stories, what we're about to read? I got like a third of the way through iron. No, no, fourth wing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Steve was listening to a fourth wing.

John? I have no idea what's going on. Okay, great. Wonderful. Let's do it. Chapter 30. I can't draw, by the way. I'm not going to get fired, right?

You're my boss. It's going to be fine. This is content. This is work. Reaching up. Okay. I grasp the top edge of the armour with one hand so I can rock back with more force, meeting the drive of his hips, taking him deeper, harder.

Wait, I'm already. Top edge of the armor. How tall are armwars, though? Maybe this was a good one to diagram. Yeah. I picture an armour as being quite tall. Violet is canonically quite short. He's got her, like, up around him.

Her, like, her thighs are wrapped around his waist. This is the problem with picking an excerpt instead of reading the whole damn. We're not reading the whole chapter. Okay. So they're both he's standing. She's like straddling him standing. Yep. The top rock back with more force.

Meaning the drive of his hips taking him deeper harder. He drags one of my nightgown straps off my shoulder and the cool night air kisses the hardened peak of my nipple. A heartbeat before his hot mouth covers it. Okay. Yes. The sensation spiral spinning and coiling forming a tight knot of pleasure. are so deep within me, the tension is sublimely unbearable. The Armour door groans, then splinters off the hinges.

And Zaden's shadows whip out protecting me as the frame snaps and wood crashes around us. My power flares, rising an answer to his, sizzling beneath my skin as I grab a hold of his shoulders, my mouth finding his. There's no stopping. We can't stop. So that's chapter 30, a fourth wing in which they break the armwarr. Yes, the shat. I just don't know what I've drawn. If I can critique my own work. I feel like you should show us as you explain what's happening. So here's that I have drawn. I have drawn. Here's the armor. Yeah. And so it's been in a number.

mistake was just some scaling and the pulse of direction of violet's arms and here are some breasts and i have accidentally made zaden this is supposed to be a tongue but i accidentally made zaden the pixar lamp uh instead of a sex god and that was not what i was intending but it is what happened And then here are the shadows, and then, you know, we're going to get some lightning strikes. Some lighting and some fire. Yeah. That's a crown, but also fire. Yeah, okay.

Sexy. What do you think? Sexy. Would you have drawn it differently? This is. I like how they're floating. I'm just going to sign this here. Just a Mallory Rubin original right here.

I can't. This is the easy one, so I can't wait. This is, boy. Yeah, I'll do some more shadows so that they're like, yeah, holding them up. shadows. He kind of looks like Dio, the little droid from her. He does like Dio.

I don't know what happened there. Okay. I have to erase this, sadly. Luckily, it's been committed to film. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. You know, I never claimed to be an artist. Just an enthusiast.

What do you think, press, our rat friend thinks of all of this. Oh, man. Preston is... Preston likes levity. So I feel like Preston's favorite character is Riddick, I think. Oh, 100%. Preston likes a zinger.

This is good stalling while I erased my really weirdly large, but also tiny drawing. Okay. What do you think Preston thinks of broccoli, the kitten? Oh, man. Broccoli. Great stuff. I thought it was really wonderful. I love an orange tabby.

I thought it was really wonderful. that broccoli went back with the squad. And we got several emails about broccoli. I should hope so. I should hope so. Okay. Thank you. Iron Flame, Chapter 48.

This is my favorite sex scene in the story so far. You have selected a mere fragment of it in my memory. Yeah, but this is the one that we want to draw, I think. Yeah, but in my memory, it's like a 50 page. My chair, my house, my woman, my how big? was that Thron exactly is the question. I should say, we got an email that I did not get to from, I think it's Adam, whose wife did like a sort of book reading camp with her friends for Onyx Storm.

They like rented an Airbnb. They all went there when Onyx Storm came out. They had all this like swag and something like that. And they had these like really adorable cookies that were like decorated in fourth wing sort of quotes and drawings. And one of the cookies just said, my chair, my house, my woman. Incredible. Great stuff.

Okay. I think by chair of my house, my woman might be the most famous of the Imperian saga quotes, right? Probably. Yeah. I'll have to check the total on the Kindle highlights. That's always a good indicator. Yeah. Okay. Have I mentioned I love this chapter? The Kindle highlights are bizarre because usually they're just sort of like, I love you. And I'm like, okay. But like everyone says that. It's interesting for me personally, if I'm reading a Kindle, I'll sometimes I'll just highlight a beautiful, not necessarily this way, just in general, like a beautiful passage that I love. But all, because if I'm using my Kindlets often for work, I'll, like, highlight something I want to remember or, like, a mythology nugget. So then I've lost kind of my ability to understand how most people use them. Okay.

I feel like people are collecting quotes from their wedding vows based on what gets highlighted in these books. You know what I mean? Like, or to stitch on a pillow? I don't know. Chapter 48. He grasps one of my thighs and drapes it over the arm of the throne. Yes.

Okay. How do I? Start with a throne. Got to get some. If only I knew how to draw, I could get the right angles. This is really, frankly, a chapter about getting the right angles. This is a geometry chapter. Okay.

Okay. He's grasped one of her thighs, drapes it over the arm of the throne, then braces his knee at the edge of the cushion, and lifts my other leg over his shoulder as he slides down my body. I'm trying to. I'm trying to drop. I'm trying to drop. Okay. I got to slow down.

Okay. Hold on. Hold on. Draw the throne. Okay. This was your idea. I don't know how to try. Let me start this one over.

I'm going to keep it simple. I'm going to go with, um, okay. All right. Chair. Yeah. Okay. Just a chair. It's a chair.

It's got arms, though. It's got, oh, yeah. The arms are crucial. Okay. Oh, wait, but. Okay. He grasped one of my thighs and drapes it over the arm of the throne. Then braces his knee at the edge of the cushion and lifts my other leg over his shoulder.

Okay. One leg over the throne. One leg over his shoulder. His knee is braced at the edge of the cushion. Oh, a cushion. Don't worry about it. Edge of the seat. Okay.

His knee edge of the seat. Her arm over one, her leg over one arm of the chair. other leg over his shoulder. These are all incredibly athletic, strong. They do their dragon Pilates people. So bear that in mind. Oh, my God. I've drawn like a lady pocket.

The thigh muscles are important for gripping as we ride our dragons. Yeah, yeah. I actually can't do a stick figure for this one. I feel like I've got to like, we need some. Okay. Are you ready? Okay. Yeah.

Yep. As he slides down my body, lowering his head as he works. his fingers ceaselessly, beckoning the endless waves. Oh, God, I'm going to die right here, right now. This is Zayden. Every time I have to sit with the assembly, I'll be thinking about this, about you. He slies his hand. How are we doing? Um, I, I, I, great, great. He slies his hand under my ass and lifts me to his mouth, then replaces his fingers with the thick stab of his tongue. Again, I'd like to just state for the record that this is one of the most important chapters to ever exist in the history of fiction. I can't wait to see how you've rendered it artistically.

For 30 pages, Zaden Ryerson performs oral sex. And then refuses violent soaringale on his family throne. Refuses reciprocation because he wants her to know that he worships her. Yes. And then at the end of that chapter when she's like bringing up cat. Yeah. And he's like, I've never fucked her with my tongue. And that's important.

Because in both three when we were trying to remember who characters are, you were like, I remember Kat. He never fucked her with his tongue. That's a real problem I have to say with Auding Storm with love and respect. All time, who's that? Oh, dude. The first maybe three chapters. Yeah. I was flipping back to like the map and character guide

with a frequency and a quickness. I'm prepared to show you my drawing. Okay. I was going to sell. Please. No, go ahead. Just listen. Hold onsy spoilers for the end of Onick Storm.

There's a big like, there's a mole, a betrayal reveal. And I was literally like, who? Oh, I meant to ask you because you said there was someone you were. I mean, not really. I'm like, he's an instructor at the university. but like, does he have a personality beyond that? No, no, not pan check. Blue?

Okay. Show me. Show me you're drawing. I feel better about this one. Okay, great. Perhaps I shouldn't. I think we can only go up from the Armour situation. I call this, I have fucked her with my tongue.

Please, you know, the stars. Please talk this about the stars. Violis, you know, earlier we were recording another podcast. We were talking about a couple that were shipping. And that podcast is for later. So I won't go into the details. But you use the term seeing stars. Seeing stars. It's been stuck in my head all day. You're welcome. Thank you. Violet. This is Violet's signature silver hair. I can definitely tell. These are the stars that she's seeing. These are, so let me color them in here just in case you're missing them. These are the thighs. Yeah. Because so much of this is about the exact angle that Violet is the recline angle. Yeah. But here's the angle. Here's the problem.

This is an excellent piece of art. Thank you. This is Zanin. Yeah. Right here. And you would think on his. You would think on his knees, right? Yeah.

Yes. But his knee is braced against the cushion of the throne. He's quite tall. So I guess. Yeah. Yeah. Let's see. And then he's bent over her.

So, that was my question. He's like, Do you think, with love of respect, I don't need to get too personal with Rebecca Yarros, do you think she makes her husband with whom she's had many, many, many blonde children, you know, practice these with her? So I've thought about this a lot in general. Yeah. Like if you're writing this stuff, okay, what a thrill for your partner to get to go around being like,

I inspired Zeta. Whether or not that's true, who knows. But like, God, that must be a great feeling. Though obviously it's not always the case. I'm thinking of... Zaden appears to have nine different appendages. Is that what's happening there? Well, I think that's often how it feels, right?

Because he's such a gifted lover. He's back in endless ways. He's such a gifted lover. I mean, one of the great, he's a very generous lover. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, one of the great things about Zaden is, you know, he's always saying things to her like, I love that little sound you make when you come. And like, he wants to not just bring her to an orgasm so shattering that she,

we get an italicized shattered or unraveled. He wants to then do it again and again and again. Give me another. And again. Yeah. We got all night. They just exist inside of the fleabag season two. Nine times.

That's their life. Yes. Except when it isn't. And then they are kept apart where they don't feel like they could touch. Shut up. Rebecca Aros. For her ability to to invent new scenarios and every book wherein they can't touch each other. Excellent work Malay and Rubin.

10 out of 10 except for where his knees are. Okay. That's okay. So this is the one that really I was like, wait, what is happening? Onyx Storm. I actually was, this is titled her knees went. I need to draw this one because I was confused by this. Her knees went where and his went, huh? This is in two sections. This is in two sections because there's two, there's two moments. Oh my God. There is Zaden's signature move. There's a wonderful oral sexing as usual.

There's Zadden's signature move which is going down on her. Yes. And then there's what Kappa's next. There's a reason that we all love Zaden and it's, there are many but that's one of them. So yeah, that was pretty easy to understand.

So let's start here, though. He lifts one of my knees to the top. Okay, so he's sitting in a chair. Yes. He's in the arm chair. And I have to imagine the arms of this chair are rather high.

This was the instance. Instagram real I saw. So it was like, I mean, I would do it if we had a chair. I would. If we had a chair that I thought could like support. A more stable. Perhaps thankfully and and wonderfully we don't. Yeah. So he's like lifting her knees up to the the arms of the chair. Yeah. And she is facing him. And he just goes to town. Yeah. So what's the height of the arms of the chair? So that when she's kneeling on it. Okay. Let me do this one first. I will describe this part. lives one of my knees to the top of the pad. I can't believe I have to draw another chair. That's the real problem. It's the furniture. It's the armware and the chairs. Okay.

So he lives on my knees to the top of a padded chair arm and then the other. Okay. So one knee on each straddling him, right? Okay. And stares up at me with a wicked smirk as his hand slide to my ass. Grab hold love. Before I can ask where. Yeah.

Shadows, the aforementioned shadow tentacles. Shadows tug my hands to the table. top of the upholstered chairback and hold them there. Chair back. What are you? Worshiping. He lifts my ass and brings my hips straight to his mouth. I've already really gravely aired and how I'm.

This is just what I'm. I've like drawn a lollipop or a flower. You might have to get in on this one. I once again emphasize that this was your idea. Okay. And then... I don't think you can really see, but can you kind of see when I'm going over here? Yeah. Yeah. That's what I was trying to do. Yeah.

That kind of looks like Beckna. That's pretty good. Okay. It's not terrible, but the point is I think that the arms of the chair are a bit high. Yeah. I've decided to skip the chair and just... Have her splay and the... Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But the back of the chair is, is very high. That's where her hands are shadow bound. The chair would be like, yeah. I don't. Yeah. Sure. Okay. Step two. Okay. Yeah. This is where this was all very clear to me and frankly,

quite exciting. It's great. So it did seem kind of, I think there's a lot of stuff about and the, we're now skipping ahead a little bit. There's a lot of like stuff about quivering thighs. And it's like from the pleasure, but also it, it of shadows or not, didn't seem like the most comfortable position. Yeah. He could have supported her a bit. more. He's holding her little shadows, but like the knees on the arm. I don't know. Still. It does say a padded chair arm. That's true. That's true. Okay. So it's like a toughed chair. I'm just, I'm being thoughtful about, I'm being thoughtful about Violet's knees. You're a very helpful person. As someone who has, they're often wrapped.

Oh yeah, they are. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Okay. But this is where I was like, I need, I need help. After the, after the shattering and the unraveling and the seeing of stars, Zayden slips out from under her. So she's still shadow bound to the chair. I believe. saying that she's so slick he'll be able to slide right in. Ish. So she's facing, still facing the chair back. Knees still on the arms of the chair.

Okay. Okay. Yeah. And he gets up for a minute. Which he slides out from underneath her. Yeah. Very confusing. Why?

Because how big is the chair? That's my said. How high are the arms on the chair? I think they have to, I think they have to be like, I think it has to be a chair that's like, the arms are up here. I mean, so he slides off from underneath there. Yeah, he's like, you know, going under like a slip and slide there based on what they just did.

Okay. Okay. He slides out from underneath her. Yeah, he's. And then he goes over, he does a thing. He draws my right knee down to the seat. Okay, so her knees were both on the arm. So she's still facing the back.

She's still facing the back. So one of her, one of her knees goes down to the seat. Which, yeah. The right knee. Yeah. And then the other knee is still up. And then he puts his left knee on the seat. Yeah.

So her right knee is on the seat. knee is on the seat, his left knee is on the seat, right? Yes. He draws my right knee down to the seat and the chair creaks as he sets his left behind me. Yeah. Give me your mouth. I look back over my shoulder and he curls over me, kissing me hard and deep. He slides the head of his cock into position, then lifts his mouth from mine. Last chance to change your mind. Never going to happen. I bet. I look into his eyes, fuck me, make a love to me, take me. I don't care what you call it as long as you get inside me right now. Need isn't a strong enough word for the way I'm feeling how desperate I am to hold all of him. Okay. So, so basically she's still bound to the chair facing behind, like, and he's behind her. Yes. And there's specific commentary on the angle a little bit later in the passage. Thank you. Oh, Mallory, thank you. Fuck, you feel like home. We both cry out when he pushes all the way in. Yeah. I'm like using this like, it's like I'm telestradeing or something.

The pressure, the stretch, the depth, he's hitting at this angle, are all sublimely perfect. The angle is really key here. Yeah. I stop tugging at the shadows of my wrists and grip the back of the chair so I can rock into his next thrust. She loves this. She loves to grip an armwire or the back of the chair so she can have some agency inside of this. Again, it really all depends on how high the arms are on the side of the side of the chest. this chair. Yeah, I feel like here's my, here's my problem with visualizing this. Maybe I just haven't seen enough furniture. But Violet is so tiny. I'm trying to imagine how she's so tiny,

the like chair is big enough for Zadent to just slide out. Yeah. But small enough that now that one of her knees is on the seat instead of the arm, she can still reach the top and be at this angle. Yeah. But like, she's a person, not like a beanie baby. So I don't know why I'm making it sound like it's fucking impossible. All right. Time to sketch. Malibin. Let's see.

Maybe I haven't seen enough furniture. Oh, my God. Okay. Let's see. So this is, how am I going to possibly with my stick figures do the knees and stuff? This is really, you almost need to do this in layers. Okay. Arms are still out.

Pony tail. Pony tail. So left knee, left leg is up. Right leg is down. Yeah. See, then. I don't, I'm not sure I'm capturing the. Boy, Joe, we might need your expertise again here.

I just sort of drew them standing up. But I didn't draw the chair yet. This is just not what I had in mind when you were like, I'm going to draw this. Well, I wanted you to draw this one for me so I would understand the egg. angles of the knees. Here. Here, you're going to have to read more smut while I do this.

Should I read this entire passage? Or should I go back to the... Do whatever moosey. Yeah, I'll read this one because this is the way we can really understand what's happening here. All right. He sends me right over the edge. Lightning crashes.

Illuminating the room and thunder immediately follows. As I break into uncountable fragments, shattered by the waves of bliss that come and come and come instead of letting up. That's pretty good. Where is? Okay. Yeah.

Yes. So these are the arms of the chair. The only thing we need is his leg on the- It is. Okay. Where? Hold on. Yeah.

Satan slides two fingers inside me and moves in time with his tongue. This is his knee. Okay. Wait. Yeah. Okay. And that's the... That's her knee.

Seed of the chair. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's her other knee. And that's his other knee. And that's just on what are the things below that? One leg of his? Yeah, it's just one. Right.

But it was... Because his third leg is inside a violet at this point. So... Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This is preposterous.

No one is proportioned this way. But he's so tall and she's so tiny. My favorite... Oh my God. Inside of this whole romanticie... I'm sorry, did I interrupt you? Do you want to finish what you were saying? No, I'm thrilled.

Inside of this whole romanticie situation that we find ourselves in, there's some great... The memes are really good. And the way that some people break down the tropes of these, my favorite one, the one that Diana and I talk about all the time, is she's like, I'm just a wee, fragile 16-year-old, and he is an ageless, immortal being, but I am his soulmate and blah, blah, blah.

I climax to save my family. It ends up. I climax to save my family. We say that all the time. I climax to save my family. Great stuff. Remarkable. Oh my God.

Thank you for that. Okay, great. Thank you for that. It felt great. Do you want to draw, should we draw some Reese wings or no? You're good. I'm good.

I think we did it. Please edit that down to something that works. Okay. Last one at least, we're just going to zoom through this because it's Valentine's stay and our team would like to spend it with their loved ones. All right.

Onyx Storm Theory slash question slash spoiler corner. Boy, okay. Fresh off finishing this. So I've thought about nothing. Great. Beyond how I draw these scenes. We're just going to keep this tight, as they would say. I mean, that's how they like it.

That's how they like it. Becca wants to know, how did you react to Violet and Ondarna's bond severing? Sad. painful. Becca thought of you a lot many times during those chapters. Thank you, Becca. I would feel more torn up about it. If Andana hadn't returned?

If Indana hadn't returned? Yeah, so I did not love the return. One of my theories from the beginning of the book... I wouldn't mind if she returned in the next book. Yeah, it was very... She was definitely going to come back, but in mere chapters. Yeah. So one of my theories was that part of what...

And this is everybody who read that had this... It's not even... I shouldn't even call it a theory. One of my assumptions was that because Violet was the only person who had bonded two dragons. she had a protection that nobody else has, right? And so I have been, I had been waiting for Taryn to die. And then And Darnah to be the dragon. And I think that's still going to happen.

Yeah, I think of it. But I was not, I actually was not expecting that Andarner would be the law in any capacity, like the lost bond first. Yeah. That was. So you think it was important for us to experience the loss of Endarner and like, violent subsequent depression to understand what it, I mean, obviously, usually inside the rules of this world when a dragon dies, you die.

Yes. But if you die, the dragon doesn't necessarily die. Right. Correct. Yeah. But the loss of like who you are, blah, blah, blah, so that when Zaden makes his decision later to save Segal, his dragon, his dragon, we've already had that experience of, like, what it feels like inside of Violet's head, inside of her life to, like, have that connection

ripped away. I think it's, I think of a few things. That for sure. I think like so much of onyx storm and the series to date. But Onyx Storm in particular because of course Iron Flame ends with us seeing the red rim around Zaden's eyes. I'm just thinking of so many filthy things to say. Everything I say. About the red rim. I just like, focus, Rubin. So much of Onyx Storm. I would say too much of Onyx storm is Zaden and Violet just telling each other that they're the most important thing in the world. And having, not because I don't value that aspect of their relationship, but because it's the same conversation over and over again. Well, what I do like about that is that like where our assumption, I was like, how boring is it going to be if he turns to save Violet? Yeah. And the fact that he turns to save his dragon at the end.

Yeah. I thought was a good. Yes. Agreed, for sure. I think also just for Violet's portion of that, because then Zadden has that other bond that is paramount, right? And for Violet, it's like so much of the book is that Zaden is the most important thing

and she won't accept that this is, that he's lost. Like she will find the cure, she's going to go around the world to find the cure. I can fix him. She can fix him. And he's like, you can't. All we can do is hope to solve the progression. But the pain that she feels

when Andarner leaves is a different level of despair from anything that she has even contemplated when thinking about what might await with Zaden. So it was also important, I thought, for us and for Violet to remember that she has other relationships and bonds that matter that much too. And I, we had, you and I had talked. An extension of herself. You and I had talked mere minutes ago when you were finishing the book. And you were like trying to make our deadline for this pod. and you were like, what are these other chapters here? Because we get a re-chapter and an image and chapter at the end of the book,

inside of this protracted battle situation. The re-chapter doesn't have like a ton of other than like action, a ton of plot relevant. But the idea is Violet's like, I'm not the most, I'm not the only one who could fight. I'm not the most important. I'm not the best. She is. And then we see Rianen like lead the squad, et cetera, et cetera. So this idea of like what are the various.

connections or bonds that exist outside of Violet and Zaden or. Yes. Yes. What are your thoughts on the theory that the erids, which is and Darnas breed of dragon, get their magic from the sky rather than the ground? And this one's based on the idea that like Violet still had connections when they were out on the islands where there was no, none of the other dragons and writers had connections. she could wield, they couldn't.

So what's this idea that like those dragons get their power from the sky? Yeah, I think that's really interesting. And I like to, the kind of base assumption is, well, the reason that something is happening differently for Violet is just because she has two bonds, right? But it's maybe not just that. It's specifically the nature of Andarnas magic. And obviously the erids in addition to, you know, their camouflage and the changing nature of their scales, they're, they're radical. distinct in terms of their philosophies, right? They're pacifists. They're appalled by what they confront when our intrepid squad finds them

and hunts them down at last. And so the idea that the root of their magic is actually distinct would be really interesting and cool. I would be into that. This is my favorite theory. Okay. Violet's magic works past Eresia Eresia in places where there is little to no magic. We know that Andarna feels fine while the other dragons are in pain without their access to magic. We know that the erids live without, quote, normal magic and are fine. Violet mentions a tern that she feels magic in the air around when he says there's actually less magic. So what if part of why erids are so special is because they draw magic from the sky, the air around them and not the physical ground earth,

like other dragons. We know magic likes to balance. So earth versus air magic. Okay. So all of that is true. But there's this other theory I read that I really like. They mentioned Violet's eye color several times in the books and how they're like shifting. Yeah.

Like she's hazel, but they meant, you know, I have hazel eyes and no one's ever. were like, oh my God, the amber, oh, my God, the green. Oh, my God, the this when you come, like, blah, blah, okay. So, like, so there's this, like, fun theory that... Until they hear this podcast. There's this fun theory that Violet has chameleon powers because we think her second signet from Andarna is dreamwalking. Yeah.

But probably not just that. And so what if her powers are whatever she needs them to be in that given time? Yeah. The other erids were very pissed that And Darna had sort of given her the power that she had given her. And dreamwalking is a big thing to begin with. Yes. But like what if like the way that the irids can change, can melionically change themselves to match the backgrounds, her powers can change themselves to be what she needs them to be?

And if the way that her eyes change color, not to the ring of red, but other colors, is that related to this idea of like the changing nature of the magic. Or another theory is that her second signet is she can just wield magic. Like has power over all of magic. That almost makes her seem too special to me. Yeah. To Imperian Jesus and I... Yeah.

I do like that she's bad at ruins. Terrible ruins. Terrible at ruins. Horrible at ruins. Yeah, it's interesting because like one of my... I've never thought that lightning wielding was as impressive as it's Presented to be in the book. Once and hundreds of years.

Yeah. I'm like, it's just like, okay, she's store. Yeah. Okay. Like, well, yeah. Cool. Yeah. And then, you know, similarly found it very odd that the reveal on the.

She's a firebender. Theophan. Theophani. Theophony? Yeah. Theophony front was, actually, she's not the balance to me on the lightning wielding front. She's the balance to my mom making weather. I'm like, wait, if that's the balance.

supposed to be scarier in this moment than it would mean Violet's mother was more powerful than her, but that was not the case. That stuff's just like kind of messy in the story. But the reason I mentioned that is because when we learned that the rebellion relics come with a second signet, to me this means violet, yes, has to be hiding something still. Something is not manifested or something is not understood in full because otherwise Violet having to like, yeah, okay, they're pretty good. they're supposed to be the best, but they're like, okay. Signets, one of which nobody can know about because being an intensive is a death sentence in the world. And all of the kids with rebellion relics also have a second signet.

That actually would be the opposite of being able to do all magic. It would be like two level, too much of a level setting. So the chameleon thing I really like a lot. Did you think after reading Iron Flame, this was one of the things that my pals and I discussed a lot and theorized a lot about in Book Club? because we had finished reading it a couple weeks after her to come out. So Rebecca Yaros had done a bunch of interviews already. And she had that kind of... She is chatty.

Mischievous, yeah, tease about how we had already seen Violet's second signet in the second book. We just didn't know that we had seen it. And so I felt sure that it was some intensive thing, specifically actually because of the thrown sex scene where we have that... She is suddenly in Zaden's mind. But my pal Allison... was like she can talk to dead people because of the Liam scene.

And I was like, oh yeah, you're right. That's going to be it. Because so much of the story has hinged around her needing knowledge from her dad. And so I'm like, this has got to be it. But then as soon as we got to the journals in the third book, I'm like, oh, maybe that's just how she gets the knowledge from her dad.

Though, of course, now she has more stuff to ask dear old dad because she found out that he took her to the temple of Dune and dedicated her, is tough stuff. Not great. Not great from Margaia Asher. Not his best dad move. I feel like there's so many little moments like that. It supports the theory that it's more than one power. That she can do all kinds of things. I like it. Autumn, this is the main thing that people are theorizing. The book ends with a new brother, a new venin. Yeah. And she is very messy, but very specifically, Rebecca Yaros does not, we're supposed to guess who this is. So who is the quote,

Autumn asks, who is the quote brother with Zaden at the end? She thinks, Autumn thinks it's Riddick. Most people assume Garrick or Bodie. Here's what we know. The new brother is someone who has seen Zaden's struggle with being a veteran for five months. Yeah, so someone who knew. Yeah.

If it's not Garrick... Yeah. And Rebecca Yarrow said in an interview, pay attention to who's missing at the end of the book. Right. So if it's not Garrick, who is missing at the end of the book, Garik's missing. Why do we have that image in chapter? But that would, that would like, if we play out the string on that, that would eliminate the Brennan theory.

Because Brennan is there at the end. Yes. Ish. Yeah. I want to go back to that. Okay. Is it Bodie? I think it's Bodie.

Right. Because of the engagement. Because of the engagement. So if Bodie has turned. Because the marriage. She's now the Duchess, right? Right. If Bodie has.

Bodie was set up as the air. Exactly. So now he needs a new air. Right. You turned Venon. I told you for the last 40. percent of the book that I needed you to stay safe. I'm going to be, I can't stop this. I can only hope to delay it. You have to rule in my stead once I am completely lost. And Bodhi is like,

I don't want to do that. I'm a writer. Let me go out and fight. And it feels like if there was no, I mean, the consort stuff out on the road, et cetera, obviously Zaden's like, why I would love to spend our lives together. But the exact nature of how that unfolded, with it's either Bodie or it's a clear misdirect to make us think it's Boeby. Yeah. Because like there's no other reason for him to like. Yeah. He needs if Bodie's Venin, he needs Violet to roll. Yeah. That feels like it has to be it. But yeah, I guess it could be, I was wondering if it was Dane and then Dane is like mentioned two paragraphs later. Right. So Brennan is there. Yes. So even though Brennan is one of the three main candidates that people

are theorizing about, it's not a great fit. But here's my main Brennan thing that I want to talk about. Brennan, who I've always been suspicious of, mostly because, like, he comes back from the dead. Yeah. The only person we know who came back from the dead was Jack Barlow, right? Nowalyn, who was Terran's writer beforehand, and it is implied that Brennan and Nailin were, like, a thing. Yep. And he's the one who resurrected Brennan. But there's a run mark on Brennan's hands.

This was weird. Yeah. And when Sloan was transferring the power between Dane and Brennan, this is a lot of people have noticed this. There's no runmark. Right. And Violet had to assume, and I hate that Violet does this because she's so smart. But sometimes she's like, oh, clearly is that and doesn't ask any questions.

Yeah. She assumed the run mark on Brennan's hand was because of the time that Nailon, like, channeled power to bring him back to life. But what if instead, I know I'm mispronouncing Nailen, I can't quite say his name, what instead he turned Vennon to bring Brennan back to him? to life. And that is why Terran does not want to talk about the one who came before. They don't talk about his death. It's why he hates that Zaden is Vennon so much and all that sort of stuff like that. So what if Nailon, who was Terran's previous writer and Brennan's

boyfriend and Brun back to life, is the sage or is one of the major Venin on the other side of this conflict? Well, it feels like we're building tort. I love it. It's felt since the first mention of what happened with him and Brennan that they, it was part of why Brennan's return at the end

of the first book was while fun and exciting not very surprised not, thank you. And I thought very telegraphed. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But similarly,

it has felt like, okay, that he's coming back to in some form. Like that will be significant in some way. The, um,

also Brendan has amber eyes. Yeah. In the, in the, the, in the, the, the Sloan,

Brennan and Dane sequence that like part of why I was on Dane watch at the end was because of the more power than he's supposed to have which was also very very worrying just extremely troubling um but it so I'll call her Theo it's like Stephanie it's like Bressephani theophony Theophony it's you know she's like just the big bad in this book and like it's very clear especially in the final conflict, that there are larger threats waiting. Well, there's the sage. Yeah, well, right. The sage, DeZagin's...

And then there's... I feel like there's... Yes, exactly. And so that... A big bad above all of them. I feel like, yes, exactly. And so the final boss, I think just has to be someone we know. I like the idea that's now and because the Wyvernor knew.

And so this idea that, like, he brought this knowledge of, like, how to make the Wyvern. to the venin is a possibility. I like all of these theories. So do you think Brennan knows this? Yeah, I think he's compromised. I think I've always suspected that he's compromised in some way or another, especially because in the journals her dad is like, trust only mirror. Only mirror.

I'm like, Brennan, I don't trust you. Right. And there is the like, well, did he just because he assumed his son was dead at that point? But I think also, you know, Violet is so afraid for so long of people finding out about Zaden. And obviously, like, just like when a superhero identity is revealed, suddenly so many people know, right, very quickly. But Brennan, I would say, is the only one. Now, we don't see the moment where he finds out. We just learn from Violet that he knows, through Violet that he knows and has been helping Zadim.

But he seems chill and eager to help. Yep. So, yeah. In the way that's one of want to be eager to cure another. Vennon. And then also Zayden says Zayden says he knows of one other Vennon who hates his master. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Okay.

Yeah. Autumn also asked, do you think book four will see Zadden and Violet apart from most of the book? Praying to the God of War, I'm wrong. Yes, I do, but I also know that Violet can dream walk, and so presumably she can dream fuck. What do you think? Dream fucking for all of book four of this series? One of my longstanding points of consternation is that there's not nearly enough masturbation in the series.

I just not even close because and there are some references in both series. Some references. And there's even the moment where like in one of the sex scenes in Onyx storm when Violet's like, you know, don't keep me waiting any longer. And if you do, I'm just going to like touch myself and make you watch. And he's like, we should have done that earlier. It's like, yeah. Like you didn't, you're right. You didn't feel you could touch each other.

Why were you not? You share a mental bond. Yeah. constantly just masturbate. I don't understand this. This is like baffling to me. Again, a couple mentions and illusions, but I just feel like it should be every three pages.

They went these sex-addicted, crazy kids who can't get enough of each other went 70-plus days without having sex. I just think every third paragraph should have been about masturbation. I do. So dream masturbation in the before. Dream masturbation.

And, you know, Eric probably already knows about it. This is the last thing because it is so up your alley. Becca wants to know Eric's signet, which was manifest, like we figured out the very end of this book. He's a pre-cog. She says pre-cog. The fact that she said pre-cog was like, okay, my memory report. In the grand scheme of autonomy slash interference slash changing timelines, there are a lot of ways to go about it. What do you think serves the story the best with Eric being a precog?

For him to not have had this power. Yes. I was so upset about this. He's going to have to be in a coma, I think, or something. Yeah. Yeah. Like, I, I, no. This is a bad move. Yeah. I just, yeah, I'm, I'm kind of bummed about that.

I like Eric, actually. I think he's an interesting character. Oh, I like Eric a lot. Yeah. And that whole family dynamic with Holden has been really fun. But we simply can't have the ability to see the future and then go back and help people and give them crucial information that comes into play in the final battle. That just can't be a thing. All the, like, little asterisk on things is like, Melgren can see the future. outcome of any battle unless there are three marks, you know, three or more marked together or something like that. It's just like, okay.

This book is crazy. Okay. That has been mostly most of one we wanted to do here in a theory corner. What a time. Thank you so much for all of your emails. All of your questions, comments are concerns. Thanks to Mallory for her art, her tremendous art. Thank you to you for your art.

It was really educational. Happy to help. I love geometry in high school. Thank you, of course, to Steve Allman, John Richter, Arjuna, Regapal, Joe Me a Dinner on for dealing with all of this that we have presented them. Thank you and sorry. Thanks and sorry. And Rex, who we just met today. Rex, so great to meet you. So nice to meet you. What a first day together. Thanks for being here today. We'll be back next week for Yellow Jackets and Captain America. Happy Valentine's Day to everyone. Happy Valentine's Day, my darling. Happy Valentine's Day to you. Bye. Bye.