House of R - ‘The Book of Boba Fett’ Chapter 4 Deep Dive

Episode Date: January 22, 2022

Mal and Joanna return to the Sarlacc pit to give there deep dive into Episode 4 of 'The Book of Boba Fett' (05:50). They take on the "stoic" archetype and examine how both Boba and Fennec can occupy that roll (32:32). Later, they are joined by Ben Lindbergh to talk about the history behind Boba's famed ship (97:10). They also speculate with Jomi, who may return for the finale (1:50:10), before offering a heartfelt farewell to producer TD. Hosts: Mallory Rubin and Joanna Robinson Producer: Steve Ahlman Guest: Ben Lindbergh Social: Jomi Adeniran Additional Production: Steve Ahlman, TD St. Matthew-Daniel, and Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, I'm Juliet Littman. And I am Joe House. Welcome to Ringer Food, the ringer's new hub for all your food-related content. You may have known this feed as House of Carbs, and don't worry, that's not totally going away. We will be launching two new shows on the feed, and the first is Food News with me and David Chacobi. You may remember us from our days at Grantland while Jacoby and I are back to go over the

news, sample snacks, share some personal tales of food news, some global tales of food news, Who knows what else is to come? And House, what are you going to be doing? Oh, my taste buds, my hungry homies, my culinary comrades. We are back. We've done it here to tell you that we are reigniting House of Carms with a whole new slate of tasty episodes throughout the year. We are starting with a football fracas, a gridiron gobble fest. We're doing NFL playoff potluck featuring taste tests of the iconic food item or items of every playoff city to determine which city reigns supreme.

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This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and making a mess. You don't need weather tech floor liners in the summer, unless you hit the beach or go camping. Then you'd want a cargo liner. Or a road trip goes sideways, ketchup goes rogue, ice cream drips. Yeah, you'd be pretty happy about those weather tech seat protectors. So just to be clear as the mud, you're inevitably going to step into the summer. You don't need weather tech unless you plan on doing summer.

Visit weathertech.com today. Boba's dead. I was left for dead. on the sands of Tatouin. Like you. I was rescued by the sand people. They took me and treated me as one of their own. I tried to help them.

Instead, I got the massacre by Necto speedbikers. Speed bikers defeated Tuscans. That's highly unlikely. And welcome into the Ringerverse. Here on the Ringer podcast network. I'm Mallory Rubin. And it is my absolute pleasure. pleasure to invite you not only to Jabba's palace hangar, but also to join us on the ringer's

Nexus podcast feed for all things fandom. Joining me today to talk about the book of Boba Fett Chapter 4. Now that she's brought me to a mod parlor on the outskirts of Mos Isley, it's my House of our working title. Co-host and my favorite Bantha writer, ringer senior staff writer Joanna Robinson.

Oh my God, where are we getting our matching mod implants now? Where like which parlor are we going to or where which part of our body? We got numerous mailbag questions about the latter. I guess we'll save it for the mailbag.

But yeah, I'm delighted to you know, forever bear some sort of gear or piston that will remind me view when I look at it. I feel the same strong, strong tattoo parlor vibes from the mod parlor. I think we'd both be right at home. Yeah, I don't think they're going to let you get a mod if you've been drinking. You know that tattoo parlor rule? If you walk in visibly drunk, they're like,

this isn't for you. A few programming reminders before we talk more about the cybernetic augmentations that we'd choose, our thoughts on the black melon milk, and everything else that happened in this episode before we call the rat catcher, all of it, Joe. We've got to remind everyone, of course, that the Midnight Boys, Van and Charles, Poo, Poo, Poo! We'll be back with you next Wednesday with their instant reactions to Boba Chapter 5. Also, in addition to being able to hear their chapter 4 instant reaction, which is already on the feed for you, can hear their Moon Night trailer response on this week.

pod. So check that out if you haven't yet. Daniel Chin also wrote a great breakdown of the Moon Night trailer. And Joanna wrote an awesome piece on the Lord of the Rings's title reveal. So head to the ringer.com. What a great website to read that. If you haven't yet, we will, of course, be back with you next Friday for our chapter five. Deep dive. How can you follow that? Joanna, you might be wondering. I'm always wondering. Thank you for asking. You can follow all of it. by following the pod on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. And of course, by following our social feeds.

The universe is everywhere. We're all over the social feeds. Find us. And of course, for today's episode, please bear in mind our friendly neighborhood spoiler warning. Today's podcast will feature plot details from the Book of Boba Fett chapter four, The Gathering Storm, as well as the wider Star Wars. So proceed with more caution than the Trondotion who threw a drink at Cresantin's head. I mean, that was unwise.

And this is a podcast for wisdom right here. And we, as far as I know, can't regrow our own limbs. So that's some real Spider-Man Cannon lizard stuff right there. He would be delighted. Congrats, Dr. Connors. You've found your favorite Star Wars characters. Favorite episode. Joe, you want to run us through the key details for this episode

and take us right into our flashback to? I'd be so honored. So this is chapter four, The Gathering Storm. Written as ever. You're making me giggle today. It's Friday. We've had a week. Written by John Favro, directed by Kevin Tancheron. And we are run time-wise, we're back up to a chunky four.

49 minutes. For sure. Yeah. And this may or may not be our last flashback, present day, breakdown of an episode. We'll see. We'll discuss. But it certainly could be our final flashback. And we get some information.

We're going to dive right into the flashback. But this is a lot of information we've been waiting for. How did he meet Fenwick? How did they get the ship back? What does a mod parlor look like? All those sort of stuff. So many answers in this episode. It's true.

I will say just preemptively, listening to the Midnight Boys, who straight up did not have a good time with this episode, we even lost Van, stalwart Boba Defender. And I'm actually more optimistic for the rest of Boba Fett than I was before after this episode, after spending time with this episode and thinking about it, thinking about where we might go from here. So I just want to like lay that out there in case people are sitting home being like, is this another hour and a half of dunking on something that I enjoy it?

And I'm like, you know, I have my thoughts and feelings about this episode. But overall, I've got some optimistic larger, longer views of the show. Yeah, I think it's fair to say, you know, if we think about the title, the episode, The Gathering Storm, should the Storm still be gathering four episodes in? You know, each of the first four episodes has in any fashion at least. felt like it could have been the kickoff for the show, could have been the pilot for the show. And I agree with your framing that the optimistic way

to kind of spin forward and look ahead and anticipate what might be to come is that if the storm has now gathered, the rain's about to fall. And we're more than halfway through now. It's a seven-episode season. This was chapter four. The final three chapters,

I would hope, would be relentlessly in a positive way. action-packed, and continue to answer questions and expand our sense of characters, character, our character motivation, lore, filling gaps, though, without maybe jumping around quite as much, and to move us forward toward a really robust, and I hope, fun and satisfying finale. But we've had some shifts across the timelines and then the pacing and the flow to get to that point, if that is where we land. I think this probably could have been a four-episode season or, you know, maybe a five-episode season. But I think these first four episodes, if people are feeling shaky, I understand.

But, you know, a couple things to point out, which is that trailer-wise, we have not seen a single frame from the final three episodes in the trailer. Like the last stuff that we were waiting for, this, like, dinner with the head of the families, that's sort of the last thing we saw in a trailer. So they are keeping all of that back on purpose to hopefully dazzle us with a bunch of things. And then also, Mingna 1 gave an interview where she was just saying, once you see the finale, you're really going to understand what we were doing here. Now, if there are people sitting at home being like, I can't wait six hours to find out what you're actually doing here, I understand that. But I think what's possible is this series ends really, really strong.

And I think if it does, people might forget how they're feeling right now or forgive how they're feeling right now. You know what I mean? Yeah, I'm with you. You know, if we actually pull a line from this episode and think about it in a meta sense, I think we can kind of lean into that, at least for, you know, until we can assess in full how we feel about the season. when Boba is trying to convince Fennick to consume the black melon, right? To let that restorative milk throw through her, flow through her new pistons and all. Get right in there with that blue windshield wiper fluid coursing through your abdomen, you know? Milk, nothing better for a piston than some milk.

Love it. He says it takes some getting used to with time you start to crave it. And I couldn't help but think that was like a little message to the audience. It might be. Can I give you my black melon hot take? Please, I would be delighted to receive it. I could probably handle drinking it. I would probably not want to, like, given the way that Cobb Vance reacted to it in Mando

Season 2, I'd probably think I don't want to smell it. You don't want to quaff a melon before you drink it, right? No. Like, it's like plug up the nostrils, knock it back. what I don't want is to ever have to open it myself or watch someone else open it because the cloud of dust that pops up when you pop a black melon, I don't like it. I'm not a fan of that. Strong disagree. Okay. I love that. It reminds me of like the crack of a sausage skin, you know, or the plume of smoke that emerges when you open a barbecue. And to the point about trying to mask your smell so that you can

tolerate the taste. Smell and taste are linked. This is all part of the gustatory experience. You know, now let me say in the interest of full disclosure. I sampled the food stuffs of four NFC playoff cities mere hours ago last night for a house of carbs taste test. And so I'm really thinking right now about comestibles of all sorts. I'm ready to try anything. I would love to sample the milk of a melon. As soon as you said, the crack of a sausage skin. I did eat brots yesterday. I'm not sure. anyone has ever said, I remember just what you ate last night. And I was like, oh, that's the headspace she's in right now. I did slack you and the House of our team a warning that I might be sidelined with a.

It was the phrase tacos, tacos and curds. Oh, my. All right, Boba Fett. What's happening? Should we just predict right now whether we think it's going to be the final flashback to or do you want to go into what we see and then circle back to that point? I'm really curious to know

if you think that this is the end of it because we do get that line later in the episode when Boba emerges. Congratulations, Master Fet, you are completely healed. We then get that follow-up, very enticing exchange between Bobo and Fenwick. What about the scars in the inside?

Those take longer, which of course is going to be one of the mission statements of the show. And one of the points ultimately to the, hey, should maybe this have been a movie of the appeal, as we talk about often, of a television show, of the Disney Plus experience

that you can take more time and spend more time with the characters in any timeline, past, present, future, past that turns out to be the near present, even though we thought it was the kind of far away past all of it. And you can learn about those scars on the inside, what caused them and what it might take to heal. And so I'm not quite ready to let go of more flashbacks. Healing pod aided or otherwise because even though we did catch up to the timeline, in a way I will talk about more in a few minutes that I will preview for you I found shocking.

I feel that this is somehow embedded in the structural DNA of the show and that there's just going to be more we need to pop and weave in and out of and learn over time. If we never got another one of these, I would find that strange, but I don't know.

It did really feel like definitive in a certain way. What do you think? I don't usually shot call in a confident way, but I'm going to do it. Do it. Babe Ruth,

here on the pod, calling her shot. I'm going to point to the fence and I'm going to say, this is the last one. Okay. This is the last one. You're probably right. I just don't want it to be. I think I see that that's probably true.

I just don't want it to be true. I'm not ready. I think they yada, yada, yada their way through five years in this episode. So I think we're done. But I will be happily proven wrong if that's the case. But, I mean, let's just talk about the timeline right now because my first, my first ping on the timeline comes right at the very beginning here. We see Bobo scoping out Jabba's palace, you know, before he finds Fenwick, he's scoping

out the palace and he says, still too many guards, which means he's been on Java Palace surveillance for how long, question mark? Let's ask ourselves, because five years are covered in this flashback. And what have we seen? We've seen Boba crawl out of the Sarlack. We don't know how long he was in there, but crawls out of the Sarlack, gets picked up by the Tuscan Raiders, becomes one with their tribe. I know, I'll let you talk in a sec, I swear.

Becomes one with their tribe. Train heist goes to see the pike. The timeline part. Goes to see the pikes. Noz lizard trip. Is that yours? We can ask. We can decide.

Go goes to see the pikes, comes back. Tuscans are gone, wanders around the desert on a bantha by himself for a question mark how long finds Fennick. And by the time he finds Fennick, we're caught up to the Mando timeline. So there's five years somewhere in there. Let me point out my biggest issue with this, which is a lot of people are like, well, he was with the Tuskins for years.

Here's the issue. If you go back to the train heist episode, he's in his crusty little long johns during the, during the train heist, and he doesn't get his robe until the end of that episode. And so, and then right after that, he goes to see the Pikes and the Tuskins are dead. So you're telling me he would have had to be in his crusty, little old man prospector long johns for years with the duskins before he got his robes or he was wandering around the desert by himself for years before he found fenwick like not outside the rubble possibility necessarily um and he's very bonded to that banthos in which we will

obviously talk about it length in a second um it it makes us sense the best answer I saw thing was my friend Eric Goldman on Twitter was like maybe the nose lizard trip took years. And I was like, sure. But, but, uh, it doesn't make a ton of sense. I mean, that might be my new favorite theory. Yeah. Perhaps the only one that I can. He wandered in the desert on, on, uh, pure lizard fumes for years.

Wizard warped mind around. Yeah. That's compelling. The, the, the part where I made a little grunt into the microphone and almost couldn't contain myself was about the how long could he have been in the Sarlac, because that's something that's definitely been popping up since the episode aired. And, you know, on the one hand, we have the, like, iconic, you know, digested over thousands of years lines. We know that the disintegration or disintegrations is not happening instantaneously. However, Boba Fed is a living person,

right? Like, not a, not an inorganic piece of material. And so he would have died. And maybe he has some snacks in his helmet. Maybe. The arbor's just feeding him, like, intravenously perhaps. We know that he had to take that like hit of the stormtrooper, the oxygen, the air from the stormtrooper, right? And like that almost felt like this one last breath that he needed to muster the strength to escape. But I think the biggest timeline clue that we have there

to really like reaffirm what is already intuitive, which is that he escaped the pit fairly quickly in order to still be alive, is what we know from Cobb Vance about when he got the armor. from the Mando season two premiere because that whole sequence with the mining, the mining contingent coming in

and everything that happened, that's like established in that episode, right, as being right on the heels of the fall of the empire. So exactly how many minutes, days, setting of the binary suns and rising of the triple moons passes, like exactly, who knows?

But I think that's a pretty tight timeline. And so that gets us back to, yes, this like big picture confusion, was Boba actually with the Tuskins for five years, which we did not realize, if so? Was he with his bantha on his own for the better part of five years after he found that the tribe had been decimated?

Or was it, is it some like split difference or some fun theory like the one you just outlined about the time frame of the lizard trip, which is pretty fun? I... I have a big picture point I want to make and the thing I want to discuss with you here. And then a few, like, clues or questions that we can latch on to to maybe see which camp we settle in here. It's certainly not a comprehensive list of every bit of evidence for either time frame, but just a few that might help us.

Oh. And spoiler alert, they don't help us. That's part of the problem here. I feel like you're an attorney preparing your opening arguments. So please approach the bench Mallory Rubin and tell me what you think. Oh, boy. Justice Robinson. Yeah.

Members of the ringer verse jury. T.D. Arjuna, Steve, Jomey. I ask you today to consider the following. Okay. I will just say, I found the moment where we see the flares. You know, Boba is roasting some scarier meat, feeding his bantha. I've decided that we should name the bantam Myrtle.

I'm curious what you think about that. But I don't want to get to five tangents within five tangents before we're even at the 20 minute mark of the pod. Though, why choose this week to not do that? I know. I mean, par for the course, my dear. We see the flares. Yeah. And, you know, every now and then, Joe,

we like to take the listeners behind the curtains, tell them about how we experience something in real time, right? Yeah. I paused the episode. Did you crack a sausage? Hadn't heated up the brats yet at this point. I was. so shocked. Not only when we see the flares, but then you hear, obviously we're going to get to the

Mandelorian music cue that concludes the episode. Isn't that mad? But the little burst of the Mando score that we get here in conjunction with the flares, right? Which solidifies for us before we even see the, you know, mirror imagery of the loop closing sequence of Boba walking up to Phenic, left for dead on the stands of Tatouine after Toro shot her in Mando season one, episode five, the gunslinger. You see the flares. You hear, hear the sound cute, you know, these are the, these are the, the, the, the Mando Toro flares. This is the fenic moment. Boba's about to find fennick. And I was so disoriented by this. So, so, so disoriented to realize that we were in nine ABY because I thought we were in

five ABY. And to the point where I was like slacking you guys dropping notes on our Google talk, like, did I miss something? Is there a clear answer here to how long Boba was with the Tuskins that we just somehow lost track of? Or is this deliberately unclear? Is it just unclear? And I think the thing that I'm, I kind of can't shake here is, and I say this is someone who loved the flashbacks. You know this. Loved the flashbacks. Episode two was my favorite, all of that time in the past with the Tuskins I loved. Why do the flashbacks if you are still going to net out at a point four episodes in where you have confusion about how. how much time has passed and where and when and with whom our character has been for however long.

Like the whole point of that is to fill in the gaps in this re-origin story, right? This origin redux. And so are we, yes, the rebirth. If we are left still with this like puzzle, then it feels like that saps some of the value gain from that structural choice in the first place. Like if you're going to end up with either way here, whatever it is, if it's, he was with the Tuskins for longer than we realized he was on his own with the bantha riding through the Dunes C for a really long time or it's some split difference and we don't know exactly what

the math is. No matter what the answer is, there's a lot of his life that is still unaccounted for then before we get back to finding Fenwick and to that present day. And so if the point of the flashbacks was for Boba to work through what he has experienced in that rebirth and for us to understand how he felt that time, like does this confusion diminish the success of that or do you feel that ultimately what we learned still achieves the purpose despite this confusion that we're left with. Well, one comment that I've seen from some people about, you know, because a lot of, you know, I think we got some questions about this, the mailbag, but a lot of people have been wondering, should they have just done the flashbacks all in one go?

Right. Should this have been a chronological show rather than cutting back and forth? Because it really does feel, if you look at everything that's happened in the present day, the 9-ABI timeline, exactly what you're saying before. it feels like we're at the beginning of the show. You know what you mean? We talked about this last week when he was getting the droid download and we're like, how is this an episode three moment?

You know, this all feels like episode one stuff. So, and I've seen some folks say it would have been helpful to see all of flashbacks at first so that when we saw Bubba make certain decisions, we could be informed about what happened in his past that inspired those decisions. As we talked about in the first few episodes, the fact that they kept his motivations obscure for four weeks until this week when we get some kind of explanation. I'm not sure I feel completely whole with it, but like there is some sort of explanation here. All of that just feels a little jangly and funky. And I think I would have loved if Boba spent five years with the Tuskins.

And it would have actually been, I think, pretty easy for them to make that the case. If only his visit to the Pikes hadn't been so chronologically smushed up against the train heist. We could have been like, well, and many years later, he went to see the Pikes for some other reason. And then everyone died. So, and then yada, yada, everyone's dead. So, yeah, I don't know that it saps. And I think the, I love the Tuscan stuff too. You and I are agreement that episode two is our favorite thus far of the season.

But I think that. I miss you, Tuscan Kid. I still believe you're out there. I'm a Tuscan warrior, too. It's a warrior. I think this week makes it less likely that there were Tuscan survivors. But yeah, so that's sort of, I don't know if you like. Unless the deaths were really recent and he hasn't had time to come across, to come across them.

That's one of the considerations for how we could wrap our minds around these events being closer together. Let me share, okay, I'll throw out a few considerations for you for each case. None of which I'm sure, again, really, like, allow us to make a clear decision. I'm just hung up on the fact that he would have had to been in those disgusting. It's the long-drawn thing. Yeah. For years. Okay, go ahead.

Now, obviously, he would have had to work his way toward that, you know, that ritual, that initiation into the tribe of earning the Tuscan garb. But he could have put on, you know, literally anything else other than the acid, coated, sarlac inner strewn undergarments. Okay. Not a comprehensive list, just a few bullet points for consideration. Boba was with the Tuskins for five years or longer than we realized. This will get us to a few things we'll talk about more as we go across the episode, of course.

Only going for the ship and the armor. Now, nowish. in 9ABY indicates, I think, that he was with the tribe for quite some time and only began to crave to seek those out

again when he was on his own. Right. Now, you noted like that not today, old girl, still too many guards exchange that Boba has with his Bantha as he's looking down with Dear Sweet Myrtle as he's looking down at the hangar.

And I do think that indicates quite clearly that he's been going there and scoping it out, but for how long? Like maybe that's days or weeks or months, not necessarily years. Okay. Another thing. Only killing the Kinton Striders now. Killing them now, waiting this long,

does not track to me. This Anakin-esque murder spree, right? Just decimating an entire group. maybe he didn't think that he could do this without his ship. Like that was a prerequisite for staging this attack. But that doesn't really feel like Boba. I mean, he goes in and charges and attacks. He went into Tashi Station.

That was a smaller group. But I don't think he would have waited for that aid. He would have sought vengeance immediately, right? He beat them in his lung johns. And now he's got the robe and the musket and everything else, you know. I just can't believe, like, that he would have let them, live for that long if he blamed them. So the idea that the Tuscan time period is short and then Boba has been on his own

for a really long time and waited all that time to exact his revenge is really hard to wrap our lizard lobe minds around, I think. Yeah. Okay. Boba hasn't found any members of the tribe yet, right? We just talked about this possibility. Now, maybe that's just a foolish thing to mention because I'm hanging on to something that isn't real, which is the belief that the warrior and the kid are

still out there, but we did not see their body. So I feel like they must be. And if he's been riding around the Dune Sea for half a decade, I feel like he would have crossed paths with them. It also seems like Boba is only just now realizing that his bantha wants to eat meat. And I think that if they had spent as much time together on their own as the other scenario would require, their rosenoscure or two over five years. And this would have come up sooner. We'd get that that that lip-licking, you know, sooner. And then that Fennec line, living with the Tuskins,

has made you soft. Now, she's just catching up in real time. Like, she doesn't actually know the answer, but it certainly seemed like that was something you would say to somebody who had been in a circumstance for quite a while. Okay. Anything I'm missing from the evidence set for,

he was with them for five years or longer, and we are picking up basically right on the tail end of him discovering that they have been slain. No, I think you gathered all the crumbs. I'm just saying I don't think they create a sturdy trail anywhere. I agree. Let's see if this other set is any sturdier to stand Abantha on. Bulba and his Bantha Myrtle were alone together.

Just them, Joe. Yeah. Riding. She seems like... Great company, to be honest with you. I agree. And also, like, I love Abantha, but the pace at which Abantha moves, I mean, five years, you know, it takes you that long, basically.

to get from one dune to another. And listen, we were, we got a little, I mean, I don't know about you, but I got a little frosty at the end of Game of Thrones and everyone was fast traveling. So maybe it took Boba a month to go see the pikes and get back, you know, to the village. Love my sprinting boy, Gendry. But not five years. Okay, go ahead. Okay.

As noted, it seems like Bob and the band that have been together for a long time. They have a real bond. It's beautiful. When he sends her off, which I'll share my feelings on in a second here. I'm sure you can anticipate them. It just feels like there have been some moments in their shared history. It's time to say farewell, my friend. You served me well.

She then licks his face. Yes, I know, I know. I'm going to miss you two old girl. Now go. Find other bantas. Make baby bantas. Go. You're free to roam the duncee.

So, I don't know. That feels like years, a really long time, at least months, certainly not just days together, right? That's like a forged friendship. I'd comfortably give it a year. Oh, my God. God. Joe, do you know what this reminded me of this sendoff, which was deplorable? Like, I want this bantha to be safe and happy. I don't want the bantha going near. Can I guess? I know you're going to get it. I know you're going to get it.

Is it aria throwing rocks at Nymeria? That's on the short list, but that's a very painful one, almost too painful to mention. Okay. Then John saying goodbye to ghosts. Okay. Can't bring up that one because it's, it's one of the most offensive moments in storytelling history from my perspective. And I'm going to throw this out there. Made me think of our dear pony bill. You know, the fellowship.

Send it Bill away. Eric Norton's saying to Sam, the minds are no place for a pony, even once so brave as Bill. Like, couldn't you just hear Boba saying Jabba's hangar is no place for a banthe even one so brave as Myrtle?

I have a Lord of the Rings TikTok I need to send you about this. Yeah, that's a great comparison. I can't wait. Oh, by the way, a bunch of people are asking me if we're going to cover Lord of the Rings on this show. The Amazon Prime show, Lord of the Rings. Will we be covering it on Ringervorverse? You bet we will.

Lord of the Ringerverse, yes, obviously. No doubt. Join us in September, folks. We will be talking about that show every single week. Of course we will. We can't wait. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable Internet means everything for your business.

And even this podcast, that's why I trust Spectrum Business. It keep companies of all sizes connected with Internet, advanced Wi-Fi, phone, TV, mobile services, plus 24-7 U.S.-based support, millions of business owners already trust Spectrum Business. So visit Spectrum.com slash business to learn more. Restrictions apply. Service is not available in all areas. There, there, isn't that better? I mean, you had nothing left to prove. You are a champion. You are above such pettiness. Now, you have run up quite a bar tab, Santos. So let's say you release this customer and let these fine folks get back to their fun.

And in return, I will wipe your debt off the books. We already outlined that it just doesn't seem like Boba was with the Tuskins for long. You outlined all those points already. The Long Johns, the history lesson that he gets from the Tuscan chief and how early that makes it seem like they are in their forged friendship, everything with the Pikes. So where do you land after all of that? just still unclear, right? I think they yada yada at it for no reason,

like in a way that they didn't need to. I'm not mad about it. I know we just spent like 20 minutes talking about it. Well, we're just trying to find answers, just trying to understand. I'm not mad about it. If anyone at Lucasfilm Story Group is listening to this, which I don't think they are.

But if you are, please let me know. John Favro, Dave Loney, let me know. What's the timeline here? Yeah. But yeah, if the answer is, Boba Fett stayed in his crusty long johns because they reminded him of his dad for four plus years. We all mourn in our own ways, I guess, you know. Joe, take us to the mod shop.

All right. So a controversial moment, the mods is not the most popular aspect of episode three. So we go to the mod shop on the outskirts of town. I wanted to ask you actually about the music. But so the cameo here, Stephen Thundercat Bruner from suicidal tendency is the mod doctor, which is like, so we talked about mods last week as like the British biker game that might have been an inspiration. And by the way, I got a well actually. It's based on something Japanese. But I think in this episode it's clear that it's based on the British biker gang, the mods.

And I like the wordplay of like calling back to that gang and mods for modification. I think that's really cute. all of this happens. We find out that maybe aesthetic modifications are for the young. There's been a lot of good discussion around thinking about the way that Vader and Luke and their mods compared to these mods. All that stuff is really interesting. But the sticking point for a lot of people, and I think this goes back to an old Clone Wars debate that maybe you know something about, is the music choice here. This was a baseline, was the guest, Thundercat, who plays the Mod Doctor.

this is one of his real-life baselines that they use here. It's sort of like a techno-thumping beat. A lot of people, you know, people who feel a certain way about what a Star Wars need to be are like, this is not a Star War sound. I don't feel touchy about it, but apparently this is a Clone War season one debate as well, the music in season one of Clone Wars. Do you have any thoughts or feelings about this now? This is sort of what I was attempting in my typical. meandering fashion to articulate last week. Like, I just don't feel that Star Wars is only,

and I know you agree, I know we feel the same way about this, is only one thing in terms of how it looks or sounds. And I think we actually need to, like, kind of actively rebel against that notion. Like, expanding the universe and what we see and hear and feel inside of it is part of the real proposition, I think,

certainly of continuing on with the Star Wars journey. And I want to spend a lot of time in the galaxy far far away, but I want, I want those, those, returns and those trips into that galaxy to strike a balance between learning more about the things we already love and no and trying new things, being exposed to new things. Now, am I ready personally for a barren Harconin-esque spinal harness mod? No, not personally, you know? How do you think, how do you think she felt, by the way, about having to wait once the modifier really,

credits were on the line, and he's just switching to Phenic while she's mid-spinal implant. Yeah. I would ask for a discount or my money back. So here's what I'll say. I don't love, love, love the mod-pillar stuff. I don't love, love the mod stuff in general. Like, it's not my favorite, but I don't feel like Star Wars needs to be exactly one thing or another. So I think we can debate and discuss and analyze and assess the successful rendering of any given storyline or character

or place inside of a Star Wars story as we can in any other story without sort of like dismissing immediately the very presence of the thing in the first place. Can I hop to the fireside chat that we get? We get two

fireside chats with Fenwick and Boba. I want to talk about Fenwick and Boba as a parent. okay because I want to love them together I love them both as characters actually I want to love them together here's an issue that I think the show has had so far making them the central duo of a show there's an archetype character known as the stoic right this is like the gunslinger mando is a stoic boba is a stoic fenik is a stoic they are all stoic archetypes but what's true in successful stoic archetype fiction is that you pair the Stoic

with someone else. So Mando obviously gets a freaking the cutest thing in the world little gumdrop baby Grogo

but like the landscape of fiction is littered with example like you can't have a Lego loss without a Gimley

you can't have like homes without a Watson you can't have a Jeeves without a Wooster like it's all over everywhere

and so to put two Stoics together I think is tough I think there's a reason why you, Mal, keep gravitating towards wanting to see Boba and Garza Fippe. Because whenever like Boba's around- She's going to bring up FIP, you know, it's just like, that's sparky. Or even Boba and the Tuscan warrior, like, even though she didn't, you don't have to like be verbose to be a non-stoic character.

There's just like a sparkiness to you, which that character had, you know, like, I think this show would have been better with a, a sparkier contrasting character paired with Boba. The Bantha is sparkier than these two. And this is not a slight on Fenwick because I do love Fenwick. But again, I would put Fenwick with a sparkier character. You know what I mean? And that's just like, we've talked about the Conan comp. Like Conan has a sidekick.

We've talked about Michael Corleone. Like Michael is bouncing off a sunny or bouncing off a frame. You know, like, it's just like two stoics together is tough. And so when you get these two fireside chats between Fennick, when you get this episode, which is really supposed to sell to me, why Fennick gave up her life as a solo bounty hunter to be loyal. Like there's the, you say my life, I'm loyal to you. But really, she's like, we're going to do a transactional debt for debt. I'm going to help you with her ship. Then I'm done. Then Boba says things throughout the episode that or does things like, I don't know, slaughter a biker gang from the sky. And she's like, she's like, she's not. nice. Yeah. That make her want to stay with him. But I think I want to feel that more in these fireside moments. And I think it really comes down to that stoic on stoic, not the most enervating kind of fiction.

I don't know. Do you any thoughts or feelings about this? I hadn't thought about it that way. I think it's a really astute observation. And it does help to. kind of crystallize why some of these moments that we get with the other characters really pop so much, like whether it's the shadiness of the majorodomo or just luxuriating in every single two few seconds that we get to spend with our gal Garza Flipp who is an icon and deserves

to spin off immediately. My favorite, yeah. Oh, my God. She is just sensational. I think that everything you're saying is, is. completely right. If we're heading toward some sort of fracture. Oh, yeah, maybe.

I'm feeling less certain about that as we ran out of. I am too, but I wonder hearing you say it, if we are heading towards some sort of fracture at some point, this could be one of the things that helps make that feel really organic. Like the fact that they actually convey sort of similar vibes and sensibilities, have similar, you know, have done similar work and have similar like experiences in their lives.

And consistently, including in this episode, you know, another like, you're sure that's a good idea exchange, disagree will lead to some sort of, and I'm with you, I don't necessarily think this will be true. But if it happens, we'll lead to some sort of like, wait, well, why can't I just go be the one who's doing this sort of moment from Fanek? Because she doesn't need to be the sidekick, actually.

Right? And like, part of that, that, you know, ability to like instantly process that, hey, my, my stomach is now like a prop for Ford versus Ferrari. Response does really reinforce that stoicism, as you're noting. So I think it's a really good point. Incredible Ford versus Ferrari reference. Love rooming back into my life from an Oscar season three years ago. But also, I want to say, here's, having said all that.

Having talked about why Fenwick is like or is unsuited necessarily to be the co-lead of this series, I want to say why Fenwick immediately endeared herself to me in this scene. Welcome to Theory Corner Fenwick Shand. Boba's like, well, obviously these Nicto bikers kill all the Tuskins. And she says, speed bikers defeated Tuskins. That's highly unlikely. And all of us at home are like, exactly. Exactly. So, you know, I love a theory corner and I welcome Fenwick to sit with me and talk these theories over.

Yes, I loved this from Fenwick. And I loved in general getting to spend more time with Fenwick in this episode and learn more about Fenwick. And I thought, you know, it was important as we've discussed heading into this week to better understand how Fenwick and Boba got to this point and why they decided to do this together, why Fenwick is staying with him. And to that theory corner point, like you do just immediately think, right. Okay, especially because Boba, part of his like pitch, and that comes in the later fireside chat, of leaving this life of misguided bounty hunting and misguided leadership behind, like, this worse smarter idea when Boba makes so many decisions all the time that are baffling. And like, to be clear, I don't think that's specific to Boba or even an indictment. That's actually, I can be part of the charm of getting to learn more about a character. like The Mandalorian is one of my favorite shows of all time. I could not possibly love The Mandalorian more.

There is rarely a Mandalorian episode where I don't shout at my TV. Dan, why are you doing that? Why are you leaving Grogo with strangers again? Why are you saying you need credits and then immediately giving them away, etc., etc., etc., right? Like, the fact that the characters are fallible and not always doing exactly the right thing at exactly the right time. It's part of what makes them compelling.

It's part of what makes them human and interesting, right? but it's like, yeah, Phannick just sees something a little more clearly, and it's helpful for us as viewers because we can again say, is it the twins or someone else in the wider hut family? Is it the Pikes? Is it the Kira?

You know, what is going on here and just spark that theorizing anew? But Boba's not thinking that way, and I think that part of the reason that's interesting in terms of assessing his character and his readiness for what he is trying to pull off here is that he doesn't realize. Not only does he not realize he's not thinking,

that way. He actually believes that he is superior in terms of his ability to assess the lay of the land and the state of affairs. And I think that that primes him for a fall that could ultimately be like really, you know, narratively rich and compelling. When he's sitting here and he's like, all the masses are dumb and I'm smarter than them. And I'm like, it's like, bro, you just climbed back into a sarlac pit without. any protection. This is not the moment to boast about your wisdom. They had a bottle of Desert Tasani on hand to hose him off. It's fine. Yeah, I think that's a really, really good point.

There's some slight sloppiness to this show that I'm not mad about if it is able to nail a larger story. The point that the Midnight Boys made that I do agree with is you know, Boba's talking about getting his armor back and says, without my armor, I'm less persuasive. And honestly, having, we're going to get to this in a bit, but having just read a Boba Fett comic and seeing how often, I mean, we're going to talk about that comic, but like, seeing how often he does utilize his armor and how cool that it's in that story, I'm like, okay, I kind of, I kind of get it. But something that we saw in, when he first showed up with Fennick in Mando is a more emotional attachment to the armor when he talked.

about the chain code and his father and all that sort of stuff. And I think that would have been a richer story to tell here is to talk about, I need to get this ship back because it's my father's ship, but I need to get this armor back because it's my father's armor. They gave us the Camino flashback. I mean, I really do feel like that's why we got those Camino flashbacks to like underline that connection to the ship, right? But I think it could have been in the text as well for him to talk about his father and the sentimental reasons why he needs his not just I need it so I can, I'm just going to irritate Steve right now and say,

shove it head first down to Sarlek Pit, you know what I mean? Like that emotional stuff I think would have been, I think would have been really rich here. Yeah, I agree. And there's kind of, just in terms of like the plot mechanics, there's a fascinating, fascinating duality at play, which I think in some ways actually really works because there's this duality that's a part of Boba.

But like, even just in terms of the practicality of things, thinking about the armor being in his life again. On the one hand, he's saying, you know, I might not like the answer without it. He wants to restore that aspect of his reputation, what he can instill in people instantly just when they see that signature green, that signature visor. But then you have something like when they're talking about repairing the ship later, you know, I'll do it myself. There's an advantage to people thinking you're dead. Well, once you're gallivanting about in your signature armor, they're not going to think you're dead anymore. So which one is it? and how is he even trying to like reconcile those desires within himself? Is he thinking about the conflict between those two impulses? Maybe not. And then that gets to your point about what is going on inside of him? Those scars inside, Joe, that take longer to heal, right? Like when I think that the one moment where the episode like allowed us to think about

this for like a second was when in the Sarlac sequence, which I can't wait to discuss in more detail shortly, she says you're burning. it's not safe in there. And he says, my armor's not down there. And her reply is, it served its purpose. It saved you from the acid. And it's like to Boba, that's not the purpose of that armor. That's not what the armor represents. It is not just this, this cocoon, this physical protection, this shield. It's his father. It's his past. It's this phase of his life. It's a key to reflecting some aspect of his power. and it's a key part of his identity. And so I look forward to seeing the character and the show reflect that in the episodes to come.

I think we're going to be in that present timeline more. And so we have some opportunities for it. I think and hope. What did you think about Bova saying sand people to fennick? Again, like honestly, I could, I'm trying to hang in the positive so I could dwell forever on these little moments and I don't mean to be like I don't want to think about it

but at the same time it like it was our interpretation at home that we're no longer to call these people sand people we're going to call them Tuscan Raiders

and then Boba calls them Sam people I've seen a bunch of different interpretations of this I've seen some people say he said it to test Fenick yeah

Fenick and she's and she says Tuskins and he's like ah you do respect them yeah maybe or I've seen some people say I kind of like that interpretation

sure or I've seen some people say Sand people is actually the more respectful thing in calling them Tuscan Raiders is to emphasize the Raider part. You can just say Tuskins. Tuskins of the DUNC. Choose your own adventure on this answer is how I feel about it.

Oh, boy. Should we talk about a ship heist? Operation Fire Spray. All right. Take us into the hangar. Here's the moment that separates from the men for the boys and this is what I mean by that. I mean, I don't manage in a gendered way. I mean it like this.

Remember when the prequels came out? You do. I do too. And a lot of people didn't like them. But then the generations passed. And the people who were kids when they saw the prequels are now like, hey, the prequels ruled. Some of them might be on this call right now. I remember when I found that out. It was when the Force Awakens opened. And I went to do a report on this one theater in Marin County where a bunch of people, it's George Lucas's theater, like his sort of favorite theater. And like people have been lining up for generations. to see Star Wars there. People who lined up for the original trilogy there, got married, were in a lot, like, you know, it's like all this rich history around this thing. And I interviewed a bunch of young people who were in line there. And they were like, yeah, the prequels, they were like the prequels rule. They were like, young teens to see the Force Awakens.

They were like, the prequel's rule. And I had a real moment. Yeah, exactly. The mods were there. And I was like, oh, because you were kids when you saw it. Right. Okay. that makes sense to me.

And Star Wars is always going to be a thing that is going to meet kids where they are at some point, right? That doesn't mean there isn't plenty for people who are still loving it as an adult. It can meet you both ways. But I've seen a lot of people not enjoy this kitchen sequence. And I've heard from a lot of people that their kids loved this kitchen sequence. So if you're a kid watching Book of Boba Fett, maybe grim fireside chats about, seizing the means of production from the masters isn't for you, but maybe watching various droids run around a kitchen is for you.

Wasn't my favorite part of the episode, but it's in this little Easter egg parade here, you got droids from Return of the Jedi, attack of the clones, like all this sort of stuff. They're trying to make the animation look a little stop motion, which we talked about they've done in some other effects. It's not my favorite, but it's not, I'm not, by it and I get exactly who it's for. How do you feel? You know who it was for? You.

Me. Yeah. Your child. Valerie Rubin. Your childlike wonder is one of my favorite things about you. I thought this was so, I thought this was so fun. I've been surprised to see the response to this particular sequence and I, I can't totally. And again, you know how I feel about this in this particular moment and in general. Not everybody has to like the same thing. It's completely fine. People responding differently to things as part of the interesting, part of what makes it interesting to talk about them and experience them together. I wonder how much of this is contextual to feeling this sense of like, okay, why are we, what's exactly going on with this ship and why are we like lingering so long in this particular

flashback? When are we going to get back to the present? When is all of this timeline, especially now that we're in 9-A-B-Y, when are all of these timeline threads going to fully stitched together into the tapestry of this show. I think that, first of all, I just love these little glimpses of life in the galaxy, right? So, like, seeing what the state of affairs inside of the Java-turned-b-pill palace kitchen is, was interesting to me. Like, I thought it was cool to just see the COO series Cook Droid with his total general grievous rip-off swirling hands. you know, swapping the lightsapers for meat cleavers as one does, Joanna, as one does,

just chopping up the vegetables and then readying for battle. We got an LEP droid, our little rat catcher. I fucking love this dude. He is all, this series of droids is all over the Clone Wars. I was honestly, like, delighted to see him. I was just delighted. I think he's precious. I'm a big fan of him.

He's precious. I'm not mad about it. Like I said, I'm not mad about it. I'm delighted that you're delighted by it. I just thought it was fun and inoffensive, I guess. But it's certainly fine to dislike it. But I enjoyed it. I don't know.

Speaking of like TikToks, I need to send you, one of my favorite TikTok trends from like, I think it was two years ago thereabouts, was the audio of like, Gerald Canooby. And like, hello there. And what you would get are two people, usually teenage boys,

one sitting on the shoulders of the other, And all four hands of these two people will be holding some kind of item and swirling them to do like a general grievous impression. And my favorite version of that, one of them had like a potted tree, like a small lemon tree in a pot and was like spinning it like a lightsaber. It's the coolest thing I was. Anyway, were the branches of the tree like Groot moving or the tree was stationary? It was like a small tree. But he was like swinging it. Anyway, the thing is,

we should recreate this, or is this not a hip thing to do now? Dibbs on bottom, too. On the bottom, you have to sit on my shoulders. We won't be using meat cleavers in our recreation. Well, you need a third person

to play Obi-Wan to go, hello there. Anyway. Steve, you're ready? You ready for your Obi-1 moment, my guy? Hello there. That's pretty good, Steve. It was pretty good.

It was pretty good. I will say, when we move from the kitchen, to the actual hangar. I have some notes on Boba's driving, his flying and driving. That's a pretty shitty three-point turn. Also, why did the gonged droid have to die? Why? But I will give shout-out to Phoenix, like, shot

of the counterbalance waves on the, and like, and the, you know, to shout out the direction of the episode. We talked about Kevin Tenture on being here as someone who's worked with Ming Now Wen and, and especially in action-heavy episodes of Agents of Shield. The shot of

the door of closing on her face as she made the shot. That was, I think, framed by a director who loves an actress. Yeah. And it just was like a beautiful hero shot for Phenic for Mignac. So I love that. That was a really cool moment. Yeah.

And, you know, to return to what I said earlier about Stoic on Stoic, it's not an anti-Fennic thing. I love fennic thing. I love is well established. Another ingredient in the stew. Anything else we want to say about this ship boost? I don't think so. Again, I just wonder why Boba waited this long to do this if five years have passed. I just have some questions about the time frame.

I have an answer for you. No way was he doing this by himself. He couldn't even like catch the droid by himself. You know what I mean? He needed Fenwick to do this. We should try to do that without her. We should probably mention the moment when Fennick says, when Boba says to the precious little rat catcher droid, do you know who I am?

Which is genuinely a very funny moment of television. Exactly. And then once again, if it had been Boba and the rat catcher droid, that's the mix you need. It could be in the future because that little dude is back

with them in the palace. It's true. The gathering of the family's sequence, right? He's just scurrying under the table. I don't want to zoom too quickly through the rest of this. We have to talk about the sarlack. We have to talk about the We're going to talk about the start.

Like, I just, we don't need to go back to the Nictos. I just want to say really quickly, the Nicto biker slaughter. I didn't like this at all. I don't love those Nictor bike. I have no reason to defend them. But, like, to slaughter them from this guy when we're not even certain they did the thing that, like, Boba is mad at them about was, I think it was an odd moment. All right. Let's go to the start.

We need a, Steve, we need a spliced soundbite of Anakin's infamous post-Tuskin slaughter. reveal to the women and the children too. A woman. And not just the men. The children. But the women and the children too. Wow. But to make it specific to Boba and the slaughter that he unleashed from above.

I mean, I will say the shot of the ship just kind of growing and growing. It looks great. Very cool. And so what was this the right thing to do properly done? One of the videos I watched and I forget which one compared it to the Falcour ending of never ending story. But those, like, those bullies just go in the dumpster. They don't die on the sands of Tatween. So, you know, anyway.

Left for dead on the sand of Tatouine, you know. Moving on from Bastion. Yeah. Let's go back to the pit. Okay, this raises another question. Mm-hmm. Which is, yep. When we get these flashbacks, whose point of view are we in?

Because in the flashback, okay, so Bobo crawls out of the sarlick pit the first time. He's in the armor. he's he's groggy he's acid-ridden he's passing out all the sort of stuff that we see in the flashback the javas come and take the armor from him which we knew they did because that's where you know the armor ended up um but that's a flash like i'd assumed the flashbacks we were seeing were all from boba's POV um but apparently he does not remember that the javas came and i'm fine with that except what flashback pov have we've been watching this whole time but anyway regardless.

He does not remember that the jaw was doing the armory thinks it might be in the Sarlac. I have a lot of questions about the whole approach to the pit and why this was a good move. I know Steve is particularly frosty

about this. Mallory, do you have any thoughts or feelings about the Sarlac maneuver? I do. I have a few. One of them is let's leave

this Sarlac in peace. Let's let this Sarlac rest. We have now burned and sliced and crawled through the Sarlac's side to escape from the underneath the sand, Boba's coffin, emerging anew. We're getting, I love a seismic charge. Fun fact for you. The seismic chart, one of Adams, single favorite things in Star Wars, every time they

unleash a seismic charge, whether it's attack of the clones, Mandelorian, he's just delighted. So it was fun to see the seismic charge. Did this Sarlac need to receive the seismic charge? I thought it looked really cool. again, visually so much of the show has been just really, like, scintillating when Boba is lowering the fire spray above the pit.

But you just have so many questions, again, about the logic. To go back, I think you're, the question that you're asking is a great one about the point of view. I had been thinking about it, like, just the logistics of when he was awake and when he wasn't, what he would remember or why,

but to the point about the structure of the show and the fact that we know from the flashback is that he has been processing that sequence, so that we as viewers could see it at home, it is then hard to kind of reconcile that if he doesn't remember it, how can he be reliving it? Is he not conscious of what he's revisiting?

Is that repressed in some way? But, you know, he crawled out of the Sarlak during the day. Then it's nighttime when the Jawa's arrived. So time has passed, right? They strip him of his, they begin to strip him of his armor. He's out. He's asleep. However, we see that he does briefly wake up.

and like reaches out and tries to attack one of the javas. That jawa then knocks him out cold, a hit to the head. He's still passed out when the Tuscans find him in daylight, presumably from a combination of the head wound, the sarlac acid, fatigue, hunger, and now being under the suns in the daylight, rough combo, right? Rough combo, you'd be forgiven for not retaining everything that happened to you. They needed that worm juice, the Tuscans, to revive him, right? So maybe even though he woke up, he was just incoherent and didn't,

didn't retain that Jawa sequence, but then again, that gets back to what you're posing, which is, I think, a great question. Like, how does he, why is it implied that he remembers it in the flashback to sequence, regardless? Maybe the Bacta is healing him on the inside. Bringing it to the fore. Unerthing repressed memories. I think that would actually be really interesting and cool, if that's the case.

In terms of just how the sequencing of all this plays out, though, in this episode and the first four episodes. I think that, like, first of all, I'm genuinely not sure why Boba Fett thinks it is a good idea to spulunk down into a Sarlock pit uncovered. Like, my guy needs a little lesson here on protection. Boba. Prophylaxics. You got to cover up. Okay. You got to cover up. A little PPE, something, you know? And again, like, the time, the five-year part, but like, here's one of the things I kind of couldn't shake with this in terms of that larger thing we've been discussing about, I guess, how much stock we're supposed to be putting in at this point in Bob's wisdom and abilities. And his ability is not just as a fighter, but as a tactician, as a strategist.

If he doesn't remember it, that's fine. The audience knows the answer to this mystery, right? So it's dramatically, it's dramatically inert. Exactly. Exactly. Like, whether that is fair or not, it just makes this whole sequence lack a little bit of the umph that it would have if we were genuinely it's sitting there right alongside boba waiting to discover whether the armor was inside and also I think fair or not it can't help but make us think again that boba is a little bit rash like a little bit hasty and unprepared in the decisions that he's making because we know the thing he's doing is wrong even though he doesn't know that so visually very cool sequence but you know a little bit of a head scratcher tough follow up to the fireside chat number two which where we

We mentioned he says we're smarter than them. And we're like, sir, you are literally, your skin is literally still burning from your last tactical maneuver. This is, this is a moment presumably that he wins Fenwick over. Don't feel like I see big movement from her in this moment. You know, she's skeptical. And at the end of the chat, she still seems skeptical. And so it's like, okay, we're going to see one more thing that's going to push her over the end.

but they're like, nope, you're healed. No more flashback does, you know, like, blah, blah. So I don't know. It's interesting because from Phoenix perspective, you know, if we think of what we know from her introduction in the gunslinger and the Mandalorian and what we know about her canon dating back, you know, 28 years prior in the timeline to the bad batch, she's working as a bounty hunter, an assassin, a mercenary.

She's working with all of these crime syndicates. but, you know, one of the things that she says to Boba in this episode is like, hey, I'm happy to do jobs for you, but I'm independent, right? She's a lone wolf. She's on her own. Seeing her just like Boba, the parallel path, so obviously it's a little more accelerated in how we get to witness it with Fenwick, move toward this embrace of partnership or teamwork or the idea of found family I'm into. I thought that the part that I enjoyed most, I think, in that second fireside chat, We get a lot of the attempts to answer the larger questions that you've been posing throughout the pot about why does Boba want this job in the first place? You know, what does he think it means to be the head of a family? What does it mean to be operating on Tatooine, etc? The part that I liked the most was Boba explaining to Fenwick and to us what value he places on the idea of tribe, on the idea of found family. You know, when he says the Tuskans took me in, made me part of their tribe, I was ready to leave hunting behind.

And we get that ensuing, living with the Tuskins made you soft. No, it made me strong. You can only get so far without a tribe line. Of course, there's a part of me that thinks like, okay, well, that in a unpleasant way, like reinforces maybe the introduction fleshing out of the Tuskins just to motivate Boba that we talked about in chapter three and how that was something that we hoped was not unfolding and wouldn't be the case, right? And then there's the other aspect of it, which this is like a nice and important

important sentiment. And for Boba, the unaltered clone son of Django, a famous, fabled bounty hunter who lived this solitary life to the point where the only thing he wanted when he became the template for the clone army Joe was another version of himself, but another version of himself. And yes, a son, but there's that like that kind of entangled spirit of individuality mixed into building out a unit. And so to see Boba move beyond that, as he has done again, as we've noted across his cannon with the bounty hunting units that he built with, the aura, again, tough hang, Basque, etc. moving on toward now the Tuskins and now Fennick, I think is nice and a part of the story that I enjoy. So I liked that aspect of the fireside chat.

No, I like it. I just wish I could have seen, I wish I could really felt how it moved Fennec. You know what I mean? I'm not sure we saw that. And especially since they did it so well, that story so well in Mando, because Mando goes from Lone Wolf to everyone's favorite daddy, you know? And so it's like, and that happens that, that crest sort of breaks off over the course of a couple episodes. You know what I mean? And so I think, I think that's the kind of thing that I would have loved to have seen here. The only thing there I quibble with is that I think Mando is introduced to us as a lone wolf through that bounty hunting lens. but then we see with the covert and the way, you know, that this Mandalorian creed and that sense of loyalty and found family, you know, the foundlings, is really central to his heart.

And so it's an easy leap to make. But that only actually affirms and supports what you're saying, which is like seeing what the thought process is fennick. Because, you know, the pitch is ultimately like one of practicality as much as it is one of sentiment. Loyalty. I'll cut you in on the success and pledge my life to protect yours. How long will that continue to be? interesting to Fennick, how long will that last? When she is making the appeal and speechifying on behalf of Boba to the heads of the other families above the Rancorp pit, it feels like she believes what she's saying and like she has opted in. But how fully ingrained is that belief inside of her and how much of this is sort of the reality of the moment? It's an interesting question.

I'd be curious to see how much time is devoted to. that aspect in the final three episodes. There's not a lot of show left. Nope. This episode is brought to by Nass Energy, introducing new Nass Energy Grand Prix Guava. For those that want to be fueled up and fired up with a hundred-bound hour tropical tasting power, ignite your taste, start your engine, shift your flavor to high gear with new Nass Energy Grand Prix Guava. Hit the street, grab a can and get after it. This episode is brought to by Viori. when it comes to clothes that score high and both comfort and style,

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to do a job that was avoidable? If they only took the time to think, how much money could have been made. How many lives could have been saved? Then you and I would be out of work. I'm tired of our kind dying because of the idiocy of others. We're smarter than them. It's time we took our shot. Let's talk about the present.

Let's do it. I don't know why I went full palpy voice there. Let's do it. It's okay. Oh, no. No. I almost burdened you with a Vin Diesel impression. When Bobo was sitting by the fire side and talking about his tribe,

I was like, I don't know, friends, I have family. Like, that's, that's, I love it. That's how Boba feels. That's how Boba feels. All fast impressions are welcome here at all times. But so Boba gets out of the tank, you know, we get the sort of heavy-headed dialogue of, like, you're healed. Like, that's it.

You're at full health, right? Your mana is full. But, so he says this line, power hates a vacuum, right? and I was like, surely that's a reference to something. And I looked up and like the, I was like, what is this a, is that a famous quote or whatever? I looked it up. Aristotle's famous quote is nature abhor is a vacuum. That's like you'll find most references to nature abhorres a vacuum, which means, you know, if something goes away, something will rush in to fill its place.

Power rights a vacuum is actually a Favroian, specifically a Favroian, specifically a Favroian, turn on this because the other place you'll find power hates a vacuum is in Mandalorian season two. Cobb Vance says it about, you know, the people who rushed in to replace the empire in his town. He says power hates a vacuum and Moss Pelgo became a slave camp over at night. So, you know, I don't know if this is just stuck in Favro's head as he thinks that's what the quote is or he likes to turn of phrase or if he's drawing an intentional connection between our favorite heart throb of the desert covance and boba but i thought that was like a fun little parallel there i would like to thank everyone yes exactly who was a part of us for giving you

the excuse to put a screenshot of our guy timmy into the dock timmy and his neckerchief okay let's talk about back to back in the sanctuary which is my favorite part of the entire episode right what an incredible scene. Not just because of everything that happens with BK or Chupac is our Midnight Boys call him. All that stuff I think is incredible and fun. For me, it's Garza Fipp. For me, it's Garza Fwip and it's Jennifer Beals making an entire meal of this moment where Garza is trying to handle BK, trying to talk him down, trying to handle him, putting on the charm

and the smarm. Steve called it condescending and it like it is, but she's trying to. to manage him and she's trying to de-escalate a situation. It doesn't work, but I really like her effort. I feel like she almost got it there. And again, this is an example of good leadership, whereas Boba just stands there. You know, to be fair to Boba, it looked like he was absolutely smitten and just frozen by his love for FIP. And frankly, who can blame him? Because I think we feel the same way. She looked incredible too, like that the like shimmery white like wrap around her like headtails

and everything. Resplendent. Where are you right now on FWIPP Theory Corner? Like what do you still think we might get a reveal that she, I think that the way she's deployed like it feels like something is coming. It really does feel like something is coming and we'll learn more about her connections to the powers. We're careful to visit her in almost every episode, but not make her overtly scheming

And that's a perfect way to like, if she's the, like, in a murder mystery, if she were the killer revealed, we'd be like, yeah, we've seen her every week. Right, exactly. You can't get mad because it's, the breadcrums have a whole time. It's been there. It's been there. Yeah. Did you pick up in this, in this attempt to, you know, function as handler, right? Yeah. Did you pick up on any bloodlust of her own, like a longing, a yearning?

almost when she was talking about the bloodshed of yore, like when she says in this more civilized place, in these more civilized times, what was once celebrated in the bloodlust of the arena is now seen as horror and cruelty. It felt like she was like reminiscent about the good old days, or at least that that could be a potential read. Now maybe she was just playing to her audience there.

But I think you could interpret it as speaking to her own personal experience with a certain type of horror. I got my eye on her for like 90 different reasons. Yeah. I can't look away. Mesmerized. Oh my God. Do you ship it?

Do you ship Fwip, Boba? Where are you on the ship? I ship Garsa Fwip with the wall. Like she's anyone, anyone in everything. That potted plant that is just forever tackling in the corner of the sanctuary. Like, yes. Anything at all. Boy.

It's a comfort to know that the transition limbs grow back. so that the arm ripping off, of course, a reference to like Han Solo talking about Chewbacel losing chess and stuff like that. Wow, Fahon, Easter egg there. That was great. That's a lower stakes move that BK made there. He didn't just like brutally murder a bunch of Trandotians in their territory, right? We're in the city center, which is Trandotian territory.

But is, you know, he gets a job offer out of it. It's a nice audition for a job. A little faster return to Boba's side than I was expecting when we saw him low. off into the desert. We were fully into hay mate territory. I loved it. I loved it. You know, it's, it's, I'm actually, I was glad because there, I would have been perfectly

ready to accept Boba making the job offer at the end of last episode, you know, right away. And knowing that that Chrysanin is going to be a part of Boba's squad is, is just really fun because he's such a cool character and I'm excited to see to see more. You're a godfather scholar, Joe. And you got some delightful godfather homage action here. Super overt, yeah. In the dinner sequence, in the gathering of the families. The three families came.

We'll call it four families, I think, because Boba is certainly working on the, you know, we're the House of Art. He's the House of Bee, right? He's launching his own house. I got family. Yeah. Yep.

I love it. What did you make of all of the different dynamics in this sequence? The initial pitch that he makes to, that Boba and Fennick make to the three families, their retort, which is in essence, the plikes aren't coming after us. And also we're making a lot of money on spice, right? Because his whole thing is, well, they're going to take over the entire planet. Right.

They're a threat to us all. His complete readiness to immediately recant then and go with another strategy, which I have some notes on. And the rancor intimidation tactic, because I liked that for various. reasons, obviously, shots to my rancor. But it felt like a blend of the Boba rule with respect, which is the diplomacy at play in the dinner. And Fennick's rule with fear. Like, he's starting to listen to her a little bit more with a moment like that. He's not sitting on the throne. He's sitting down with them, right? Beneath the throne. Wants to be a man of the people. Says, I'm not interested in

tribute, even though we just saw him take tributes. But isn't above spooking them a little bit. Here's what I'll say about, so I've been, you know, putting my phone on the gas about the Godfather parallels throughout our discussions here. This is the most direct parallel. A lot of people have pointed it out because this scene in the first Godfather film where Vito meets with the heads of the families at a long table similar, and they talk about the drug trade, literally the drug trade, and Vito does not want to deal drugs. And he is seen as behind the times and the other heads of the families and the mob want to deal drugs. all of that's in there. But here's where I think they made a mistake in drawing such a clear parallel between that godfather scene and this scene is because in that scene, what Vito is doing is actually trying

to read the room of like, who is the real power here? And I talked about this in a previous episode, that's something that both Michael and Vito Corleone do in The Godfather are really clever at ferreting out who is the real puppet master. and in that dinner, you've got one character, the head of the Tatalia family, is doing all the talking. But it's kind of clear that this other character Barzini is sort of directing from behind. So I was looking for parallels of that. Like, it kind of felt to me like Phil Lamar's character, the Clotunian head of family,

felt like he had a little bit more power at the table, even though he was doing less talking than the TransOcean leader. And so if Bobo walked away from that dinner and was like, I sense that the real power is this or I ferreted this out or that out. But he doesn't. He walks through from the dinner. He's like, well, I think my plan kind of worked. And I'm like, I don't think so.

They promised neutrality and I don't believe them. And so again, it doesn't put Boba in a position where he seems like the smartest leader, like the most strategic leader, you know? Yeah, totally. He, when they're debriefing on the balcony, Bobo and Fennick after, and she asked, you know, do you trust them? Like when they say, you know, they abide by the agreement to not team. Oh, okay, you don't want to work with me. Fine.

Just don't team up with the Pikes against me. Yeah. He says, I trust them to work in their own self-interest. My deal is a lot better than what the syndicate can offer. They may be stubborn, but they're foolish enough to see the Pikes would eventually take over the whole planet. Either way, we must prepare for war. I think you're really onto something here because one of the, one of the tendencies Boba has, I think, is to assume that other people are thinking the same way he is, right?

And you got to know your enemies or your potential allies better than that. And, you know, speaking of the Godfather cops that you're making, which are great and so illuminating. Boba doesn't go into, you know, make him an offer, he can't refuse territory. He says, in essence, I'm going to make them an offer. They can't refuse. And if they do, I'll immediately change the offer. Immediately.

Immediately. That's Mova's approach here. And that's not going to be the way ultimately to earn their respect. I think this gives us the payoff at the end of the episode, which makes it all so worth it. The Mandalorian music kicking in when Boba's asking about treasure and then, you know, we get the line from Boba

about how he's got plenty of credits when I'm short on his muscle. Credits can buy muscle if you know where to look. Steam kicks in. Is that Mandos music? And the sea of possibilities opens up. I mean, we got so many questions from people in our mailbag submission.

about when we'll see Dan or who else might be in the mix. We're going to talk about that we can do it now. We can do it in theory corner. We can do it in the mailbag. We can do it anywhere. But that's an exciting concluding note for the episode and to circle back to that big picture point you made at the beginning. I think it's a moment that gives us a lot of hope.

My knowledge may vary because I think there were probably plenty of viewers who were like, I don't want this to ultimately turn into the Mandalorian show. That feels like an inversion maybe of what I wanted the Boba Fett show to be. But I'm delighted and simply cannot wait. And I think the fact that all of these. these shows exist in the same timeline and are building toward that climactic event that we keep hearing about, these connections are something that I've actually been looking forward to and am ready for. So whether that's next week, whether that's in chapter six, or whether it's

something that happens in the finale and the culminating event of the season, I can't fucking wait. My first thought, like, Dan is obviously a, like, our first thought when we hear the Bovath. When she says, like, credits buying muscle, my first thought about that is great. Grief Carga. Like, my first thought is that if I were looking for muscle, I wouldn't necessarily go to, like, my semi-retired pal who is grieving the loss of his kid. You know what I mean? I might go visit Carl Weathers and slap some credits out on the table and see what I can find. But either way, I mean, I'm sure Dennis coming. When is he coming? That's a good question. Yeah, I think that Grief Carga is definitely in the mix. I mean, maybe Mando would bring him.

I mean, grief's busy over with his own affairs on Navarro, but he's always up for a new adventure as well. It's fun to think about Mando not only because it's Mando, but he's got the Dark Sabre. Could that come into play here? I think it would be slightly strange to deploy that outside of the Mandalorian season three, given how central that seems likely to be to that story. But what about, what about Bo?

Oh, sure. You know, Night Owls. Yeah, Night Owl Hive. Like, I think a lot of people have been, you know, there's been a lot of theorizing and chatter on Twitter in the interwebs about this over the last couple days. But in terms of how Boba Fett and the Mandalorian ultimately relate to each other,

like it could be cool to see Din, Bo, et cetera, come help here. And then we know that Boba and Fenick because of the deal they struck with Mando in season two, they're up for an arrangement, right? A debt can be paid. And there could be some quid pro quo.

So if they come help here, credits or otherwise, maybe Boba then, even with his own territory to worry about, maybe he helps in the eventual efforts to win Mandelor, which could bring all of these together toward that culminating event in some way. Also, though, credits, of course, makes you think a bounty hunter. So that gets back to the delightful Cadbane theorizing that we like to return to at least 10 times per episode every single week. What about Basque? Bobas old pal Basque. I mean, the big

boss clue in this episode, I mean, yeah, let's get into it. Sure. So a lot of options here. The Bosque clue that a lot of people are talking about, many people are saying, is that the reason we're leaning so heavily on BK's hatred of TransOceans is he's going to have to work with Bosc and that's going to be a source of tension. So Bask showing up, Cadbane showing up probably not on the side of our heroes, but maybe, who knows, you never know. Cobbban, Cobb v. Cadbane? Like, let's dream a scenario where it's like the end, like the end of Avengers end game. And we are matching baddies and goodies and stuff like that.

Like, would you not die to see a Cadbane Cobbant gunslinger off? Right? Like, that would be incredible, right? Joe, that's just, that's our shared fanfic right there. That's like, to see if, you know, I don't know if we'd survive that episode, if we get it. If Kira shows up, as we've been talking about this whole thing, if Kira shows up, with her incredible fighting style versus the Dark Sabre.

Like, you know, there's just like a whole bunch of options here. What is the upper limit on the number of guest stars we might see for a finale like this? And if we saw something like that, if we brought in Cob Vant and Boss and Kat and Kira and Hans Solo and, like, whoever, like, if all of them are here for the finale, is anyone going to remember the first four episodes of this season

where they weren't too high on the supply of what Bobo was serving? Right. I don't think, So, you know what I mean? That would be, that would be the only thing that we could think about for quite some time. I mean, there's sort of, so you're outlining two different camps of character arrivals that we could get. There's the maybe more near-term answer to this question with the Mandalorian music queue of who they're going to ask to come help them.

Because Kira isn't entering the story to help them. She'd be a photo. No, she would be opposed to them. Exactly. So this maybe is going to build in waves where maybe in chapters five and or six, we get Mando, we get Bowe coming to help. we get Basque, whatever the case may be, and then the FIP or mayor or Kira, whatever this ultimate reveal is,

and how all of these theories that we have do or do not connect to the actual plot inside of the show currently to this point with the bikes, who's working together, who's pulling the strings. Maybe that's the arrival that we get in chapter seven. There's a lot of... Or maybe we see Kira in a... I was going to spoil something for.

another show. I shouldn't do that. I was going to say maybe we'll see Kira and a screenshot and a thumbnail and a text message at the end of the penultimate episode before the finale. What a decision. Remember that good time. Different canon. Okay, this is a spoiler question. I know, again, I know no spoilers for the show. I've heard the listeners of the Ring orverse. They're not fun when I know what's coming. And so I've been trying to say very pristine for the show. But my question are things that actors said in interviews on the table for speculation discussion. I think that any, here's my feeling on this. Leaks, we don't, we don't mention.

But something that is actual text, whether it's source text from a comic or a book that we can bring into heighten the understanding or something that somebody who's involved in the project said, completely fair game. Of course, we should be parsing those for clues. All right, since we're hanging out in Theory Corner and thinking about how big could this finale go? here's a couple things that were said in interviews. Number one, Timor Morrison talked about how talented a double he had and how there was one sequence where his double had to work really hard. And so my question is, are we going to see other clones? Could Rex show up or someone else from the Clone Wars?

Was something like that happen in the finale? I would love seeing Rex. seeing Rex. I adore seeing Rex. You know, we, we obviously, Rex is one of the main characters in Clone Wars. We, uh, blanket Star Wars, spoiler issued at the top of the show. This is, this is well within bounds, but just to say it, bad batch, spoiler warning, we get Rex in Bad Bad Bad, which is like super fun. And of course, down the road, Rex is in rebels.

So we're with Rex over a large swath of the cannon, though not this far into the cannon. So that would be, that would be a real treat. And then I'll want a Soka because of the Rex Soka Bond. Sure, sure. Here's another thing that happened at an interview. Temur Morrison, they were talking about, like, he was asked, I think it was a BuzzFeed interview. He was asked, you know, what was your most, like, favorite thing to work with or enjoyable thing on set or whatever?

And he said, the Ewoks, they were funny. Ming Na Wen was on this call, on Zoom. You could see the video. And she's like, they were funny. And it was really odd because there are two possibilities here. One, there are Ewoks in this show, and they talked about it. it. If you watch the video, he doesn't say in a way that it seems like he's messing with people

or just dropping like a fake spoiler in there to like, you know, whatever. And she doesn't react in a way of like. Tyrion throwing out three marriage proposals to. Yeah. And she doesn't react in a way that's like, what are you talking about? Or you got the name wrong they were Jawa's or something like that. Mingna Wen is like they were funny. So are there going to be Ewoks in this show?

And again, if we get a finale. with freaking Cabin, Cadbane, and Kira and all this. I'm like, I don't want to Ralph Boner myself into a corner here and like overpromise and under deliver. But if there are fucking Ewox on this show, honestly, again, 100%. Is anyone going to remember the time we spent in the desert that they didn't care about? Real time inspiration here because of this incredible nugget that you have just dropped. Closing scene.

Okay. The Ewox that you have just introduced into the possibility set. gather around at the sanctuary. And Garza Fipp says, Hey, can I introduce you to my own friend, Max? And we get a Max Remo band, Ewok mashup remix of Yubhub. Oh my God.

If they bring Yubnav back. Do we have any musically inclined of people on the Zoom? The Jiz cover, the Jiz cover of Yubnum? Love JIS cover Joe Love it Love JIS cover The worst thing that Star Wars that we're done

All right So that's I mean that was basically our theory quarter But let me just say that Any other theories The last thing to say about that Is that if we believe

That the Pikes were actually Behind the Death of the Tuskins If that is That is the case I'm trying to suss out a satisfying Reveal of that Phil Lamar we know was voicing the head of the Pikes.

He's doing double duty, right? Just like Robert Rodriguez. He's playing the Clatunian leader and voicing the head of the Pikes in the flashback. Whatever that took place because we could not constantly say it was 5AVY. Whatever it is that Bobo went to go see the Pikes in the past. That was Phil Lamar in charge. I'm sure they'll bring him back because it's Phil Lamar, right? But is there a moment where a pike saying to Boba, you know who really killed your Tuscan family?

It wasn't the Nicto bikers. It was me. I'm having trouble envisioning that scene. So I feel like that we're going to get something like that, yes. Whether they will say it to him in boastful fashion or he will unearth it somehow, that reveal feels like one that has to come. I hope he finds like his notebook with just like his scribbled plans. And it's like frame Nicto Bikers for Tuscan death. Or again, maybe they deployed them because they were paying protection to them.

So there was some working relationship there already. It's not the pike reveal there wouldn't necessarily mean that the nictos weren't a part of it. But the pike reveal does feel inevitable. We need to get that pike reveal before we can then get the reveal that the pikes are not the ones actually in charge. Yeah, that's cure. Yeah, that's curing in Crimson, Don. You know who you really need for a reveal like that? You need to call up somehow Palpatine return to the show.

Because if you've got Ian McDermott saying, I'm afraid you'll find. It was the pikes who kills your family. I mean, that works. But other than that... We've reached the end of the list of character returns I'm interested in seeing. With that submission. Somehow, Palpatine returns. I have found that even I have a limit.

Really quickly, since I read a whole ass comic book for this. I read a great comic book, by the way. I wasn't sure that I would enjoy it. Okay, so there's this moment where Boba talks about how he wants to take his revenge. says something fatphobic about Bibfortuna and then says for betraying him. And a lot of us sat up and were like, hold up.

Hold up. When did Bibfortuna double cross BobaFed? We have no evidence of that in the film canon. When did this happen? The best answer that most people on the internet could come up with is a comic that came out in 2021, Star Wars, Cullen, War, the bounty hunters, a comic run.

So I read this last night. to find answers. Honestly, the answer isn't actually in there because, like, Bip Fortune is in there and there's some double-crossing happening, but the comic is never like, and it was Bibb who portrayed Boba in this way. That being said, rip-roaring adventure.

Let me just, like, quickly summarize this for you. This comic book takes place. So we all know the Empire Strikes Back ends with Han Solo going in the Carbonite. And we all know the Return of the Jedi starts with the busting Hans Solo out of the Carbonite. But what is true is that some time has passed. Luke has become a Jedi at this point.

Sometimes carbonite's side quest. So what happened is that Boba loses, someone comes and steals the carb. Okay, no, here's the best part. Sorry, I'm going to get to this really quickly, I promise. But here's the best part. Had Solo, Harrison Ford, so hot. He starts to thaw in the carbonite when he's in Boba's. care.

Yeah. And the threat is that he's going to turn to goop. He's going to turn to goo. If Boba doesn't get him refrozen. So Boba goes and gets him refrozen. And there's a whole side plot of boba fighting in a tournament in an arena. It's great. And we see, again, we see over and over in this comic what a badass Boba Fed is.

This is the element that I've been missing, which is to see Boba at the top of his game. And he is really great. Action-wise and strategic... in his strategy in this comic book adventure. While he's in fighting in the arena, Han gets stolen from him, from, you know, where he was getting him fixed. And so then we've got this big adventure where the person who stole Han was, drumroll, Kira and Crimson Dawn, they have Han,

and Kira makes this great point where she's like, Han Solo. He has connections to literally everyone, the empire, the rebels, Doc Afra, blah, blah, blah. And so we get this big auction, Crimson Dawn auction. The title of this issue is called The Scoundrel's Ball. Incredible title for an issue of a comic book. Where Kira. I love it.

To like establish herself as the head of Crimson Dawn holds an auction for Han. And everyone converges. The huts are there. Everyone is there to try to get Han for themselves. Vader shows up. Vader and Kira fight. It's amazing. Boba Fett sets Chubacca on fire at one point to, like, get him out of the way.

Not good. Lando ruins his favorite cape putting the fire of Chui out. It's a whole thing. And, I mean, it's just like a really, really fun adventure. And at the end of it, you know, Boba gets Han back through again, extreme action, prowess and strategy and delivers him to Java. but in the course of that, someone put a bounty out on Boba Fet. The implication is maybe it was a bit like, Java kind of says that he did it,

but I guess the idea is that maybe Bib Fortune is the one who put a bounty on Boba because Boba lost Han. And so Boba, in trying to get Han back, is fighting off all these other bounty hunters while he's doing it because someone has put this astronomical bounty on his head. So did I find out? in a super, super satisfying answer to the Bibb Fortuna thing? No.

Did I have a great time with like a cast of thousands in this adventure? I did. I really recommend it. Great comic. It feels like one more bit of supporting evidence that Kira is coming, honestly. Huge, huge. Because there are a number of ways to account for why Boba wanted to go after Bibb or what had gone awry there. And to point specifically to comics canon where a cure of reveal unfolds.

This feels super deliberate in terms of what this is priming us for. And not just priming us overtly, but in a way where we're like seeking it out, right? Seeking out that information. And then your mind starts racing. And this just feels like this is going to happen. Can I be the only other. I love that. The Easter eggs in this show have been delightful.

It's true. Ben time. Just like hearing some notes of the man. theme song at the end. Ben, we should come up with a theme song for you when you're going to come and should just be like, do-to-do-to-to-de. Ben's here. So Ben, Lindbergh is here to tell us a little bit about that ship that we saw in this episode we've been seeing throughout. Ben, what can you tell me about Boba's fire spray ship? Yeah, let's talk about Boba's starship because many Tuskins died to bring us this transportation. The important thing to keep in mind, I think, is that this is not just a ship

to Boba. It's the closest thing he's had to a home for most of his life. So we know from the bad batch that Topoka City, where he grew up with his dad and lived for a while is long gone. So he couldn't visit for old home week even if you wanted to. And remember the flashback to Camino that Boba keeps having, he is watching his father fly away in that ship over and over again, which seems to be a traumatic memory for him. And to him, the ship is closely linked to Django. So when he loses the ship, he must feel like he's losing his dad again. It's one of his last links to Django, along with his armor and I guess his own DNA. And there's a moment in the War of the Bounty Hunters comic where Boba has a price on his head and a couple bounty hunters,

Zuckus and Forlom, or four LOM as some call him, are hunting him. And they search and booby-trap the ship. And when Fett finds out, he says, you didn't just hurt my ship, you went inside. This is a real violation for him. So they tell him they barely did any damage. And Boba says, still, the disrespect that vessel belong to my father. And then he escapes by activating the ship's cannons with his wrist pad, which shows how closely the armor and ship are linked to each other and to Django in his mind. This is his inheritance in a very real way. So you can imagine how he feels when he loses both his armor and his ship, and he finds out that Bib Fortuna has had the ship stashed away in his palace for a year. So just to give you a bit of background on the ship itself, it was formerly named

Slave 1, of course, a name that first appeared in the 1980 novelization of the Empire Strikeback and then of the Empire Strikes Back and then was popularized by a 1981 Kenner Toy and then went on to be used in various sources, including a couple episodes of the Clone Wars. So the ship was never named in the movie The Empire Strikes Back and in fact the bounty hunters weren't even in the first draft of Empire. And even after they showed up in the second draft, the ship was not described. It was just implied that he had to have a ship to transport Han. And BobaFed himself was never named in the final cut of the Empire Strikes Back, which is pretty wild when you think about it. His name's not in the movie. He had been named in the holiday special, but that aired one time in the U.S. a year and a half before Empire came out. And then the first BobaFet action figure debuted in 1979.

So certainly many people knew who he was, but anyone who was just kind of walking into the theater coming in cold would have known only. that he was a bounty hunter, and for them that was enough, I guess. I kind of admire the way that George Lucas would often intentionally keep his characters' backstories murky or just hint at their histories a little bit because it kind of made the galaxy feel alive and left a lot to the imagination. So now, of course, the ship is known as the fire spray, which is a reference to its class. It's a fire spray 31 class patrol and attack craft. It's not totally clear yet whether its name is also fire spray.

There was a recent comic cover that suggested that it might be, but so far in this series, we've only heard Boba call it my fire spray gunship. I'd actually kind of like it if he officially renamed it, not just to clear up any canon confusion, but because kind of would make sense for the story, right? I mean, now that he's not a bounty hunter, he's stepping out from his father's footsteps, it would be fitting for the ship to be rechristened as well. And naming it after the class of ship it is wouldn't be the most creative solution, I guess. but Boba's a pretty no-nonsense guy.

Fire spray sounds cool, and he doesn't really have to refer to it by name all that often, so fine with me. And behind the scenes, the ship was designed, as so many things in Star Wars were, by Ralph Macquarie, as well as Joe Johnston and Nilo Rodas Jemaro.

The early designs were based on a radar dish that Rodas Jemero had seen, so that's why it has that weird distinctive shape. It was more ball-shaped originally, and then it became a little elongated and elliptical later and ended up looking like the iron that we know and love. And there was a detailed model that they made for Empire, and they thought they put all this work into it,

that it would be reused in Return of the Jedi. But the ship didn't make the cut, ultimately. However, there is that beautiful shot of the ship in Empire, just in profile on the Cloud City landing platform, as Boba escorts the carbonite slab into the hold. And that was a combination of a photograph model of the ship and map paintings and live action footage. So that's the behind-the-scenes story.

Just a quick bit of in-universe info. Here's what we know about the fire spray class. It was designed by Kuat Systems Engineering, which also made the Jedi Starfighters seen in Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith. So when the ship goes up against Obi-Wan and Attack of the Clones, that's Kuat on Kuat crime there. And fire sprays were used to guard this high-security Republic detention facility on a prison. Moon called Ovo 4 and Django stole it while he was on a job there. And the current canon doesn't go into great detail about how exactly that happened, but there is a video game called Star Wars Bounty

Hunter, which is turning 20 this year. Happy birthday. And it actually lets you play that level where Jango steals the ship with the help of the bounty hunter who tries to kill Padme and attack of the clones, Zam Wessel, or Wessel, as it said in the game. And that game's not canon anymore, but Tem Morrison voices Django in it, so it's canon for me. I consider it real. And in the game, there are six prototypes of the fire spray produced for this prison. Django destroys all of them, except the one he steals. I've never seen a ship like this. What is she anyway? She's a fire spray pursuit special, one of six prototypes manufactured for the prison.

She's the last of her kind now. Won't the correctional authority hunt her down? I've deactivated her transponder. They'll assume she was destroyed with the rest. We're in the clear. We're ready for the jump to light speed. Let's see what she can do. So his is the only one left in the galaxy until many years later. Yeah, when they manufacture more to capitalize on the fame of Fet's fire spray.

But in current canon, there are a few other examples running around there. So Ovo4, this detention planet, it's an asteroid-ridden region of space. So the unusual configuration of the fire spray may have made it easier to operate there. It lands horizontally, of course, with the engines facing the surface and the cockpit facing up. So you have some blood rush to your head when you're sitting there on the landing platform. Then the ship rotates in the air so that the cockpit faces forward and the engines face the rear. And the Mandalorian gave us a great look at how that works on the inside. There's a gyroscopic rotating compartment and reorienting artificial gravity on the inside.

So that keeps the passengers from falling all over the place or getting space sick while it's in flight. And because it was a prisoner transport, it had holding cells, which made it perfect for a bounty hunter like Django. So that blue and white color scheme it has in the prequels, it matches Django's armor. and that gets changed later by the pirate Hondo Onaka, who, yes, one of the great characters of the Clone Wars. He has control of the ship for a little while after Boba gets captured by the Jedi and Asoka slices off one of the ship's wings in the Clone War Season 2. So, Hondo rebuilds. Tough feet there for RSA. Yeah, Hondo rebuilds and repaints the ship in that olive green and brown that we know and love.

And that happens by the time it reappears in season five and then Boba gets it back. branding genius. Right. He is. He had that Kenner toy in mind, I guess. So all of the original parts were upgraded or replaced over the years by Django or Boba. So it has the souped up shields and sensors and the Class 1 hyperdrive and tractor beam and a signal jammer. And then armaments-wise, you've got everything.

It has a little bit of all the ways that you can kill things in Star Wars. So you got your blaster cannons and the tail. You got your front-facing laser cannons. You got your projectile launchers, your proton torpedoes, your ion cannons, your concussion missiles. And, of course, you've got your seismic charge. Everyone's favorite weapon. I would love to say that the most memorable sound in my life was when I heard my daughter's cry for the first time. But if I'm being honest.

Ben, don't do it. Don't do it. Jesse's going to listen to this. It was definitely when Django dropped the seismic charge on Obi-1. And we all remember where we were the first time we heard that sound. Maybe sound designer Ben Burt's best work. And for the sound of the ship taking off in Empire, he has disclosed that he combined the sound of a trumpet with the horn of his 1971 dodged duster. But he has not yet revealed how he made that distinctive twang in the seismic charge.

The brang, the twang, is still a trade secret. He will take that to his grave, or at least he is still taking it with him. So he had tried to make a similar sound that he called a space-ether explosion for the destruction of Thai fighters in episode four. But George Lucas didn't like him. So years later, he sat on that idea. He returned to this audio black hole concept that sucks in the sound and then lets it escape after a second of silence. It's like thunder after lightning. So aside from the blaster cannons, all the weaponry,

is hidden on this ship. So much like Boba's armor, it's more lethal than it looks. And also like Boba, it's not the speediest in the legend's continuity. I think it was said to be about... Faster than a bantha. Yeah, well, definitely faster than a pantha. We could walk faster than a panther than a bans. But it was said to be about as fast as a Y-wing bomber, which is fast for its size, but not ideal in a dog fight. So it's more about blowing stuff up than outrunning you or out-maneuvering you. So that's about all we know about the fire. Maybe we will learn more, but I will leave you with this thought. If Mando does return, he may have a hot new ride of his own because, of course, the razor crest was destroyed.

So maybe something smaller now that Grogu is gone and Mando's an empty nester doesn't need quite as much room. Wow, that went from exciting to depressing really quickly. A swinging bachelor pad for Mando. It needs to have enough room for Grogu to visit, hopefully. But stay tuned for future Starship developments. Incredible has always been. Three follow-up notes. One, glad you mentioned a Dodge because Joanna has mentioned the Fast and the Furious saga

multiple times today already. So a Dodge Dustor mentioned right at home today. I think that despite the rundown of all of the weapons felt like a waste when Boba needlessly deployed a missile on the already largely largely dead, viciously murdered speeders. And, you know, while I appreciate your candor, and this is always a safe space for you to share with us and our listeners, that was a tough beat for your beautiful newborn daughter.

I've gotten... When you said that the sounds of the seismic charge were your favorite of all time. The charm of her cries has worn off slightly over the past few months. The first one was special. Tough affair. Well, Ben, I follow your wife on Instagram, and she just recently posted an Instagram story for close. friends only, so we should probably cut this from the pod of you singing to your baby. And it was

wonderful. Wonderful. It was a very sweet moment. I'm just saying the seismic charge means a lot to me too. Thank you, Ben. My pleasure. Thanks, Ben. Joanna, we're almost at the mailbag. But before we hear from the listeners, it's time to hear from that little Kevin Feigey inside of our minds. Secret Scroll Watch. who you got? I'm going to give it to the mod doctor himself. That's my pick too. Okay, great.

We're very much in sync with these lately. Moving along. I mentioned this on another pod this week, but I will mention it here as well that I'm officially putting Steve Levy on Secret Scroll Watch or some sort of scroll-cree war watch after the way he said Marvell during Rams Cardinals heading into the Moon Night trailer. Very notable.

Yeah. Milbag time. Milbag. Jomey. Jome. The first question is technically for you, so we'll actually read it to you and you can answer it. And then we'll go back to answering them. Timmy asks, did Phenix mini probe droid feel like a nod to Shield Tech, given the director's agents of Shield Connection? You know, I didn't think about it. watching the episode, but now that it all, you know, blends together, it does remind me of the dwarf,

the dwarf drones that Fitz would use in the, in the early seasons. This is, that's a, that's a tough one. That, that, that, that, it brings back memories. It's for you, man. That's for you. Thank you. A little bit of closure there via, via, via, well, spy droid. Malina Mae memories. Yeah, everybody gets their shows back. Daredevil, you know, and I got to, you know, ages of shield is just, it's dead in the mud, you know. Tough. It's a tough scene.

It's a tough scene. I'm sorry, man. It's okay. It happens to the best of us, you know. All of our agendas, either, you know, flourish or parish. No. The old flourish parish binary. Well, we.

We got a whole bunch of questions about one thing. So this is what we're going to cover in this mailbag. Everybody, Nick, Lauren, Cahar wants to know who's coming back? Who have we seen in the Star Wars universe is coming back? Nick wants to know is Omega coming back. Cahar wants to know what are the chances to bat bathech are coming. And Lauren asks, are we on Grogu Watch? hashtag Grogu Watch.

Oh boy. I personally am always on Grogu Watch. So we got a ton of questions about who, about Mando and Bo and everyone else that we, you know, already kind of covered earlier today. But we had this whole other cluster of questions about other characters show that we haven't hit on yet.

This is interesting. I think that we will not see Grogu as much as I would love to. I do not think we will see him. I can't allow myself to imagine that we'll see him. No, no, but I don't think we'll have to wait long in Mando's season three to see Grogu. Right.

But that will be the moment. That's going to be from the Mando show, not the Boba show. Yeah. I'm really interested in the questions about Omega and the Bad Batch. My instinct is no, we will not see either, or we will not see any member of the Bad Batch of Clone Force 99, Omega or otherwise. Because I think that that would just tell us, basically, whether those characters lived, like how far they made it past the canon of the Bad Batch.

You know, we're not that far away from getting season two of them. the bad batch, that series is set right on the heels of Order 66. And so there's a long stretch of canon between where the bad batch is set and what we're seeing here and to know that Omega or Hunter or anyone else is still out there. Nearly three decades later would just be too much to tell us, right? I do think that Omega will come up at some point still. I don't think we'll see Omega, but I think Omega will come up because the fact that Omega and Booba are both Django clones and Fennick was deployed to find Omega in the Bad Batch, that tie that Omega represents between Fenwick and Boba feels like something

that has to surface at some point in the plot of this show. I'd love it, but I don't know that they're going to be like, you have a sister. Just another fireside chat, maybe? You have a sister, folks at home. It's like in a comic book when you get like the asterisk and it's like asterisk, see season one of the Bad Bad Bad Badge. Watch all of it.

I think we talked about this on the midnight, boys, but if Groger were to come back, would you want to see him with like a big, like, normal sized lightsaber or like a tiny little baby lightsaber, like a chopstick type thing? I think he should have like Asoka has the like double saber that like too tiny. The Shoto Sabre. Yeah, two tiny ones that like connect together for a big one. That's what I would hope. Oh my God.

A tiny lightsaber for Girlgo. I see seeing, seeing Grogo wheel the lightsaber for the first time, hopefully in season three of of Mandelorian is one of the things that I genuinely look forward to most in life. sincerely. He's not too proud to say that out loud. I see the vision. I see the vision. We have a special question.

Oh boy. TD, come on in. You have a question for the people. What's up, people? House of R is so glad to being here. I think this is my first time since it was previously working title mentioned House of M. I'm excited to be here. Is this a normal reaction?

This, it should be. I have a fun question. I have a fun question. And, you know, very recently in the Midnight Boys, we talked about leadership. And this question is inspired by the conversation you guys just had on the pod discussing, you know, the black melon. And it's something we all like. It's food related. Right.

And so it's a fandom food question. Oh, my goodness. And it goes. Okay. What food slash edible drink dish? whatever, in all of fandom, are you most waiting in the line for? I have some options. You can fill in the blanks too if you want to.

Here are the four options that I got. Yeah. The Matrix steak, Van talks about this at a time. Yeah, that's a great one. Amazing steak. The Game of Thrones are more specifically the hounds chickens. You know, he loves his chickens. Loves them.

Willing to fight for him, willing to kill for. We're willing to die for them. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. The classic post-credit scene. the Avengers show armor scene that we all know was shot post premiere.

I love me a good show armor. Love. Love an attempt to hide a beard. Yeah. There you go. And then a good old rabbit stew from Lord of the Rakes. Those are the four options you have,

but you can fill in your own option. Whoa, Charles Holmes is jumping in. Charles Holmes on the Midnight Boys, he might have. Poo, pew, we might have a pick here. But what's going on, T.D.

What's happening? What's happening? T.D. You thought you were coming on to say goodbye to us, but we've got a farewell for you. Whoa. We'll answer your food question. Yeah. We'll answer your food question and say, I got to get, I mean, we've already mentioned

him once in the pod. I'm going to mention him again. My guy, Sam Wys Gamji, there's no one else I would trust in all of fandom to feed me. Then Sam, do you remember they're like deep on their journey? And Sam's like still all the way up. the side of Mount Doom. He still has his cast iron pots on his backpack.

He does not throw them away until the last few steps of his journey. This man knows his way around. He has a box of seasoning with him the whole time. This man knows how to season a stew. He is committed. Anything that he wants to cook. I don't like the way that he calls rabbits.

Conies, it sounds off to me, but I will eat the rabbit stew with the taters. Yes. I'll go for the, you know, the raw. fish the gollum bites right into pulled fresh out of spring. Now, just kidding. That would be weird.

Ragh and a wriggling. I don't think he'd juicy. Oh, he definitely would. He would love it. He would love it. You know, I got to, if we're talking about fictional food stuff, so I've got to, I've got to be, I've got to go with a butter beer, of course. I have to pick a butter beer.

Not from your list, but I, I just let delicious, warm, soothing, wonderful. Mal is always going to be the sweet and I'm always going to be the savory. I think that's true of us. Charles, do you have a fictional, a fictional food? You didn't hear the nominations on TD's list. I already had the one off top. The bugs that Timoa and Pumba eat in line, you know?

It always looks so good. It tastes like chicken, right? What a pig. It's really satisfying. I always wanted him as a kid. I'm like, that was a really good. Great pick. I don't want to go anywhere near the, in terms of your list, TD,

I don't want to go anywhere near the, the, the, the, the hounds chickens because there's too much horror and bloodshed around those chickens at all times. Yeah. That's not a relaxing meal. I'm looking for some leisure time with my snacks. However, hot pie never neglect the gravy. Anything that hot pie wants to make for me.

This is a good bread. You've got to brown the butter. Do not neglect the gravy. That's what I'm going to pick. I'm switching my pick in real time inspired by Joe. I'm going with the wolf bread. The wool that hot pie makes for aria. This is my pick.

So precious. But not lamprey pie. Or honestly, any pie in Game of Thrones. I'm not eating. It might have a person in it. It might have an eel in it. I don't want it. You can't trust it.

No. That's amazing. Great calls. Great calls. But hey, it's been a pleasure. It's been a joy. And that's something we all did in addition to watching movies and TV shows talking about it. When we had a chance, we'd meet up and break some bread and, you know, break down with the no way home movie or Eternos that we just watched.

And, you know, when you guys can, I'm more than happy to hop in and do that once again. Have we made it official? If anyone listening does not know, this is TD's last day here at the ringer. And we wanted to gather the entire ringerverse family. Van is popping onto Zoom right now. Wanted to get the whole Ringervor's family here on Zoom together to say goodbye for a minute and to say thank you for everything that you have. meant to us. Steve? You have a little something? T.D. It's Mal. Hey, T.D. I'm going to miss you so much.

Yo, T.D. I'm going to miss you, my man. T.D. My Nigerian brother, we're going to miss you around this way. TD, it's been an honor, man. Yo, man, T.D. Thank you so much for the work that you've done since you've been with us over at the Ring of Verse, man. T.D., what can I say, but absolutely thank you. Just thank you for everything you've done for us. There's not many people who can Corral, the Midnight Boys, you really gave me a chance, but the battery in my back, so I can't thank you enough. It has been such a joy getting to know you, working together, all of us as a team, building the Ringiverse together, making this wonderful podcast together. You know, we had a lot of fun moments. Still remember our first Zoom schedule for 30 minutes. We went north of two hours. Shocking.

Because we were having such genuine fun talking about these stories, talking about these fictional universes and how much time we'd love to. spend inside of the fandom. I'm bummed I don't get just even a little bit more time to try to convince you to come over to the dark side of spoiler culture with me. You know, aside from your still to the day, inexplicable decision to not include a cap wielding Muleer in your Rhyrises nomination set, it's been a treat every step of the way since. We will always have the Andrew Garfield Hive, you and me, where we were ahead of everyone on that. Garfield Hive forever. Once a midnight boy, always a midnight boy. Midnight Boy. Midnight Boy for life.

Pibu! Thank you so much for being the homie that you've been for me for the last, I guess, what is it, three years. You know, just wanted to say, we love you, man, and have fun over on that side. We're going to hold it down for you. Don't worry. We're going to hold it down for you. We're going to keep it going for you.

Obviously, you're not going anywhere. You're a fan from day one. You'll be listening. So can't wait to get all of your. questions. From all of us at the Ring Reverse, thank you for everything you've done, and we'll be seeing you soon. Miss you so much. Thank you for everything. Remember that you are always a part of Ring Reverse assembled. We love you, 3,000. Steve! I thought Station 11. I thought Station 11 was a tough one, and here we are. Here we are.

And I'm going to try to make it through this without shedding the tear. Doesn't mean I don't want to. I sure you guys love you guys. I love the audience. I love the crew in the community we've built not just here obviously the entire ring of versus Spotify family. Can't thank you guys enough, man. This is going to be a tough one for me. But I know the show is in great hands, audience included and, you know, legitimately love you all. And I'm down to be a house guest and Van Charles. I'm taking off the Midnight Mopster Hat whenever you all need me. But this has been legitimately one of the most rewarding experiences work-wise and just if you know me personally

which you all do you know this is not work for me this is personal and uh love y'all can't thank you enough we know that you're like wolverine you know you can't stay in the mansion for you have to come and hit the road to find out who you really are but we always know one thing about Logan he always comes always comes back

I did not expect to have the the old man Logan character especially comes from Old Man Van himself. Guys, Dini's not dying, okay? He's around, he's alive. I won't say something seriously though. Like, TD,

you, like, I want to get on the podcast and just let it rip and have a good time with the Midnight Boys and the entire feed. Both in development, you've been, like, I'm going to miss you touch even when we've been in other places. You've been my friend, I don't know, everybody else will cry.

I've been knowing this guy for a long time. So, like, we'll, like, we'll stay friends, but I'm definitely going to miss work with you, man. Never say never, guys. Never say never. Oh, Logan's coming back. Hashtag Rugby Watch, hashtag TD Watch. Love you all.

Well, friends, on that emotional note, just remember. Podcasting takes some getting used to, but in time you start to graving. But still, it's time to wrap today's show. Thank you to our modifier, Steve Allman, for producing today's episode. Our DiMyo's, Arjuna Ramgapal, and TD St. Matthew Daniel, for their additional production work on this episode. And one more huge thank you to TD for everything for the entire lifespan of the Ringiverse. And of course, thank you to our favorite Sarlack Pit Spelunker, Joe Mee.

Danoron for his work on the social media for this episode. Navigating the feeds. Be sure to head back into the Ringerverse next week for the Chapter 5 Wednesday instant reaction from the Midnight Boys, Pugh, and the Friday Deep dive here on House of our title. Until then, remember, you can only get so far without a trip. All pay off your home, travel for life, drive a Ferrari, in celebration of the world premiere of the Monopoly, Big Board Buckslot machine by Aristocrat Gaming, Yamava Resort and Casino

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