House of R - 'The Last of Us' Season 2 Episode 1 Deep Dive

Episode Date: April 14, 2025

The tendrils yearn once more! Jo and Mal are back to talk about the highly anticipated premiere of 'The Last of Us' Season 2. They give their overall impressions and recap what happened at the end of last season to bring us up to speed (19:37). Then they break down the events of the season, including Joel in therapy, an intro to new character Abby, and a hunt for a new form of infected! Later, they dive into the heavy game-spoiler section to game out where the season may go and all the events we may look forward to (01:43:25). Hosts: Mallory Rubin, Joanna Robinson Senior Producer: Steve Ahlman Video Supervision: John Richter Social: Jomi Adeniran Addition Production Support: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This episode is brought to by Paramount Plus. Beth and Rip are back in a new series, Dutton Ranch. Kelly Riley and Colehouser returned, and this time they're taking on Texas. As Beth and Rip build a future together, peace will have to wait as they face corruption, danger, and a ruthless rival ranch, willing to protect its secrets at all costs. Legacy is a beautiful thing, but only if it survives. Dutton Ranch starring Colehouser, Kelly Riley,

Annette Benning and Ed Harris now streaming on Paramount Plus. This episode is brought to you by Borris Head. What if we told you the taste of deep fried turkey is now available at your local deli? Well, Borishead just did that. Bursting with flavor, perfectly seasoned with that indulgent taste that usually means pointing your whole day around it. Presenting the Friars turkey breast only from Borishead. The backyard tradition now available behind the counter.

Visit your local deli today. Discover the craftmanship behind every bite. Borershead committed to craft since 1905. Hello. Welcome back to House of Our. I'm Joanna Robinson joining me today the most marvelous Morel, the most

beautiful button mushroom. It's Mallory Rubin. Hi, Mal. Joe, I have whiskey. I have herbal tea, but the tea, it's mostly thistles and dirt. So I don't know how well it's going to pair with those offerings.

Bourbon, please. Thank you so much. I love a bourbon. Love a bourbon. Mallory Rubin. Joanna Robinson. This is a podcast that we do, and this one is about the last of us.

Season 2, episode 1. I'm thrilled. You can both listen to this podcast. You can also watch it. That's right. On YouTube, on Spotify. Indeed. What are the people who are watching this podcast enjoying the people who are merely listening to this podcast are missing?

Oh, well, you know, in addition to just the joy of seeing us and our well-rested, definitely well-rested faces. I have decided to show up today wearing Joel's wax trucker. And, you know, I love a bit. I love a piece of outerwear. And I intended to wear it for the full pod, I think, based on the temperature, while Joel, you know, is 25 years into the apocalypse and going strong with his wax trucker. I'm not sure I'm going to make it more than a handful of minutes before I collapse from heat stroke. But we'll see. We love a bit.

We'll see how it goes. We love your efforts. Thank you for bringing your true passion, which is outerwear, to the podcast. So we're going to talk about the last of us. That is what we're doing on this podcast. Wonderful. We're recording this a little bit in advance. We did have the privilege of going to the premiere.

We did. And I will be leaving Los Angeles. So we thought for now. Which QZ are you going to? Oh. I will find you. I will travel anywhere to find you. Can I just be in Jackson instead?

Everything seems fine there. Yeah. Lovely. Okay. I'm leaving Los Angeles. We wanted to do this in person. our tendrils yearning for each other always don't don't actually um and so don't out your nose please don't yeah well just like it's a doctor okay so spoilers obviously for season two episode one of

the last of us yes so we're recording this a little in advance yes but here's what's going on elsewhere in the feed busy a lot popping yellow jackets yeah daredevil that's us finalees Finallies. That's what we're doing, right? Yes. The Midnight Boys, Poo! Poo! Poo! Midnight Munchies? Apocalypse, food. I mean, a little bit on the Make Your Mushrooms, your bitch beat, but I support, I'll tell you this much. Here on the Spotify campus, when I walked into, this is Pod City that we're in when I walked in today, I walked past Charles Holmes with like a stock pot. And that filled my heart with joy. Yes. There's a lot happening. I support Charles getting excited about cooking. The Midnight Boys are also doing a reaction to sinners, which I'm really excited about because I am so excited for that movie. And also, ButtonMash is covering The Last of Us.

Daniel Chin, Ben Lindberg, gamers are coming in with a video game angle for The Last of Us. Very exciting. It's a ring or wide event, Last of Us coverage. We're going to have stuff on the site every week. We'll have the Midnight Boys Instere Action.

We'll obviously be here at the top of the week as early as we can be with our deep dives, button mash, as you said. We're going to have some other stuff cooking. Yeah, Rob Mahoney and I are going to be checking it. Rob and I are going to be checking in later in the week on the prestige feed. It's a full court press.

Chris and Andy will be discussing The Last of Us. Munchin on Mushes. Oof. So this is it. This is it. This is what we're doing. So, thrilled.

How do folks keep track of the millions of places they can hear various people talk about the Last of Us, among other things? Going to keep it as simple as possible. Follow the podcast that you're interested in hearing. Follow the pod on Spotify. Yes. That you're interested in hearing, share. Follow on Spotify and follow the corresponding YouTube channel.

Subscribe to that as well. Again, you can get full video episodes of House Var of Midnight Boys of Prestige TV. what a time. You can also follow along on social media. The Ringerverse is on Twitter, Instagram, TikTok. Is this the moment where I finally joined Blue Sky? I think it might be.

The combination of Last of Us and really needed to get off some of my Oriole takes back in the day I would have put on Twitter and now I just text them to my dad, which is great. That's the best. But it might be time. So do that. Follow along with us.

And of course, any thought that might be. not fit into the comment of an Instagram post or a tweet, send us via email. Email us anyway. Hobbits and Dragons at gmail.com. The inbox is always open and we would love to hear from you. We already got our first mushroom recipe of the season. Someone brilliantly emailed it in in advance of the premiere. Smart. So we'll be talking about that a little bit later on. But if you weren't with us with season one, we were over on a different feed for that one. But like if you weren't with us, I was cooking a lot of mushroom recipes sort of like in my attempt to control

my mushroom fear make mushrooms your bitch 2025 here we come so yeah send your mushroom recipes I may or may not share them with Charles and his stock pot but I will definitely share them with you Mallory I cook's not a thing during season one nor during any other recent season of television

but I did order a lot of mushroom dishes on various food delivery services And that's because you and I approach things differently, and this is how we're approaching the game this season. So we already mentioned this on a previous house of our episode, but we're doing the game part of this adaptation a little bit differently this time. Last time in season one in our coverage, Mallory was physically playing the game along with pacing with the episodes of the show. And I was watching a couple different, but mainly one sort of cinematic playthrough on YouTube. So we could talk about the differences between the game and the show. We were thinking of doing this for season two. We were told by people who made the show, that would be foolish of you. We're not doing a sort of linear adaptation of Last of Us Part 2 into season 2. So you better just take it all in. So Mallory and I have not gotten all the way through.

We're past. Yeah, we're doing this a little early. But by the time we next reconvene, I think we'll be done. And we made a significant dent. So we will have a spoiler section at the end of the pod where we'll be talking. about how events inside of this episode or choices that were made may impact how the show goes forward. So we'll have a little game knowledge only spoiler section, similar to our book reader section at the end of the House of Dragon episodes. We'll have some blaring sirens before that.

So you cannot miss that. You will not miss it. That that part of the pod is about to begin. We hope that you stay. But if you don't want to hear that stuff, it will be. Sionare, sweetheart. It will be a mushroom, the hood of a mushroom at the end. The rest is safe. for you to consume freely. I don't like it. Just one yearning tendril at the end. I wanted to let you all know. I usually get this question of which play-through am I watching on YouTube.

So just in case people want to check one out. I'm watching one that's like 15 and a half hours long. Oh my God. That's fast. Yeah, I think they cut all the times that you're like searching for a weapon, you know, trying to just had a weapon to use and all that sort of stuff. I love a search. Adam makes fun of me.

I will not miss picking up a single solitary. resource, not a one. So this... I get mall at a lot, Joe. I need to be able to craft as many health kits as possible. I know that you're a top-tier gamer when it comes to this particular adventure. The one that I'm watching is called Lastavist Two Full Gameplay Walkthrough by Gamer's Little Playground. It's got 4.3 million views, so safe to say, just a few people have seen it. And it's been really wonderful so far. So I've been really enjoying that. I love it. Snoring, gasping during sleep, feeling fatigue,

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It is not known if Zepound is safe and effective for use in children. Don't share needles or pins or reuse needles. Don't take if allergic to it or if you or someone in your family had medullary thyroid cancer, or if you've had multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2. Tell your doctor if you get a lump or swelling in your neck. Stop Zepbound and call your doctor if you have severe stomach pain or a serious allergic reaction. Severe side effects may include inflamed pancreas or gallbladder problems. Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes before scheduled procedures with anesthesia.

If you're nursing, pregnant, plan to be, or taking birth control pills. Taking Zepbound with a sulfonel urea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. Side effects include nausea, diarrhea, and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and worsened kidney problems. Talk to your doctor. Call 1-800-545-99 or visit Zepbound.lily.com. As I mentioned, we're talking about season two episode one, future days. Directed by series co-creator Craig Mason. Avia.

Out of them, lots. Written by series co-creator Craig Mason. Fantastic. Mason directed season one episode one. He's not sort of by trade a director, but he crushed it with the season one premiere. So he's back again for the season two premiere. And the title is based on a Pearl Jam song. That means a lot to The Last of Us fandom.

It has a role to play in the game. We're not sure if they're going to use it in this. TV show because time-wise, timeline-wise, the timeline in the show is different than the timeline in the game. This song came out in 2013, and then in the show they moved the dawn of

the cortiseps apocalypse from 13 to O'A-3. Eddie Vedder was still composing post-cordyceps Apocalypse? You know, I think I would love for the show to just say fuck it, let's pretend in the universe of the show the song came out earlier and still use it. It's so meaningful and beautiful.

when it was in the first teaser trailer, I lost a little bit of hope. That made me think, oh, maybe we're getting it there. And now the name of the episode, Future Days, we're getting it in a certain ways because maybe we're not going to get it. And there will be another song something instead. They're going to pick something else. And I don't know. Maybe it's a misdirect. But, like, I'm excited to know whatever that song might be.

Same. But, yeah, this song was so important and is so resonant to the story that they want to tell that Neil Druckman, co-creator, the game, co-creator of this TV series. I've been out of them lots. Basically, like, had to hound Eddie Vedder and his people in order to get the rights to this. If you're curious why it was this song or no other song, as far as Rockwood was concerned, I'll just read, though not saying, a few lyrics, just so folks know why it had to be future days.

If I ever were to lose you, I'd surely lose myself. So what I say every night when I text you good night. Yeah, I know. I have a log. Then I send you a thumbs down emoji. All the promises is it. Sundown, I meant them like the rest. Everything I found here I've not found by myself, try and sometimes you'll succeed to make this man of me, all my stolen missing parts I've no need for anymore. I believe and I believe because I can see our future days, days of you and me.

Cheers. Days of us, the last of us. Beautiful. Some background of the game without spoiling anything for folks. Anything you want to mention about sort of what you knew. about the last was part two before, you know, going into playing it yourself or

thinking about the season? I was trying to avoid anything. I know. Anything. And in fact, I'd like to thank some of our colleagues, Steve, our wonderful colleague, Riley McAtee, when season one finished,

and I'd been playing it through in corresponding fashion with the episodes, as you noted, the day after the finale, I heard from from those guys and a couple other people who said, play the game as soon as you possibly can. If you want to avoid being spoiled. Do it immediately.

Here we are on the eve of a new season, and I am embarking on my journey now. Let me say, I'm having an incredible time. I mean, it is breathtaking. I thought the first game was astonishing, and this is really extraordinary and impactful so far. So I was trying to really, really, really, really trying, and I honestly succeeded in avoiding particulars.

In a way, I'm thrilled by and shocked by, given that we live life on the internet. I was just so cautious. But I had a sense of the level of discourse around the game when it released, which was mere years ago, right? This is a 2020 game release. So this was just in the last handful of years, which obviously is a different time frame than when the first game came out.

And so I had some sense of the controversy and narrative around. the game and then also had a sense from not just the wider gaming public, but some people in our lives who we know and trust, that it is like something they absolutely cherish and revere and considered a masterpiece and considered much like the first one of the greatest games ever made. So I felt like I had a feel for its role in the culture and hold on the culture without having been subsumed by the spores of spoilers in a way that I'm, really grateful for. So I don't know how. I don't know how I managed it, but I'm thrilled that I did.

I'm honestly impressed. I'm really, really impressed. The last was part two, inspired by the godfather part two. What a what a lofty goal for Neil Druckman. And part one, did you know that part one was inspired by, we must have talked about this? Inspired by David Benioff, City of Thieves, a book we both really love. I want to say that we, that you told maybe me and Rob this. Does that sound right? Sure. Let me say this. If I learned it, I learned it from you. Okay. For sure. For the Last of a Season 2, Craig Mason and Neil Druckman have brought on Druckman's Last of us Part 2 co-creator, Crow writer, Hallie Gross, and he shouted her out at the premiere that we went to. She, I know her work best from Westworld. She wrote two great season one episodes, The Adversary and Tromp Loy.

and when Druckman hired her out of Westworld, basically she had done Westworld, hired her to work on this game. He hired her, among other things, to bring a female perspective and crassing stories for characters like Ellie, Dina, who we meet in this episode, Abby, who we meet in this episode,

that sort of stuff. Among many other things, and I would really recommend in terms of researching about, because, yeah, we were not playing the game when it came out. I was aware of the controversies. trying to learn more about that, about sort of what all went down. I read this incredible British GQ piece.

That's a really good piece of journalism because the journalist was like embedded with Naughty Dogg, the creators of the game for, I think, years, just like checking back in like at various stages about how it was all going. If not years, at least a year, like a long time. And so I really, really enjoy this piece. I really, really recommend it you can find out of it. British GQ, sort of like the making of the last of us part two. The game was finished and debut during COVID and like smack dab in the middle of like the Black Lives Matter, sort of second wave protests and stuff like that. And so just a really hotbed for people at home, people feeling a lot of things, people feeling a lot of ways about a lot of things. And so it landed.

And then in the least ideal way you want something that you've worked years on, created an hour of the game leaked online in April 2020. And so a lot of it was just sort of like taken out of context. Assumptions were made. And things got really nasty online. Yes. We got a couple emails because we alluded to this in an earlier House of Our episode sort of leading up to this. We got a couple emails from people saying like, yes, there was sort of heated debate or or some like nasty reactions to the game. But the emails that we got were like, this was a very vocal minority. Yeah, it was a small group of like sort of loud, nasty people or loud nasty opinions, let's

say. And that broadly, this is an extremely popular game and extremely well-regarded game. And people are really excited for this season. So anything else you want to talk about before we get into the episode breakdown? I just, I think just not to be too like cheesy and saccharine from the jump, but I just how excited I am to be back and to be covering this with you again. Like, I was thinking about it watching the premiere and rewatching season one in anticipation of the premiere and starting to play the game again. Like, I think this is my favorite show right now. I think it's my favorite

show. Like your favorite show that's currently making new episodes of television? My favorite show that is like active and currently airing. And I think it's, it's the best. It's in the running, like, for the belt. And. You know, some of the other shows that I feel are in the running, either for me personally or just more broadly, like critical consensus, consumer consensus, whatever the case may be, like, you know, the bear and White Lotus, like, are just, I just have a different, I love those shows, but I have just a really different depth of connection to them and relationship to them than I do with this world and this story and these characters. and, you know, like something like severance I adore, so that's probably like up there. And I'm like, oh, which is it? But yeah, I was just like, is this my favorite show right now

when I had the opportunity to fall back into the world? And that was a really fun and cool thing to confront because I just adored season one. Yeah. And it was the rush and euphoria of discovering something for the first time, like when something first gets its yearning tendrils in you because I hadn't previously played the game. It was all new to me.

and to really immerse myself in it and to do that with you was just really magical. And like to be back and doing it again, I'm just thrilled. So I, as you know, I have the tendency like,

Roman really just said it. I actually do it. You know, pre-grieve. I'm already thinking like, fuck, it's only seven episodes. What will I do when it's over? We have to wait how long until season three

to continue to adapt the game. But I'm really just going to try to soak up every moment. And I hope that this is like a really special second season. and I'm just honestly thrilled to me back. I just love the show. I know.

I love the show. I love talking about it with you specifically. So, so fun. And I think for me, I mean, it's fun and also, like, devastating and gut-wrenching and all that sort of stuff. I love to be sad. But, like, I would say what's in the running for my favorite shows currently making new episodes? It's like, Last of Us, Andor, which we are lucky enough to get new and or very soon. cover these two shows at the same time.

I'm worried about being in like an active depressive state when they both end. It's just so much of a good thing all at once. And my personal like jewel of the crown interview with a vampire. Lamb ma'am? You know, there's always traitors to consider. Did you know, miss, did you hear me say lambam? I don't know. No, you mean by that.

Okay. That's your jacket. Weird how even though we're not remote today, we had an audio glitch. It's just like a little quick glitch. That's weird. That's bizarre. And you alluded to this, but this is, so this is Lassau Season 2. Yes.

The Lassos part two, the game, is basically twice as long as the first game. And so they are only adopting part of the second name and the idea is that in the third season, they will finish the adaptation, I believe, is the plan. Yes. Anything else you want to say before we get to the episode breakdown? I'm just going to take the jacket off. Yeah, that's what I thought. This episode is brought to by Whole Foods Mark. Spring is here, so celebrate it with fresh, juicy, seasonal produce and some very tasty,

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calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea, OSA, and obesity to improve their OSA. Zepbound is approved as a 2.5, 5, 7.5, 10, 12.5, or 15 milligram injection. Zetbound contains terseptitide and should not be used with other terseptide containing products or any GLP1 receptor agonist medicines. It is not known if Zetbound is safe and effective for use in children. Don't share needles or pins or reuse needles. Don't take if allergic to it, or if you or someone in your family had medullary thyroid cancer, or if you've had multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2. Tell your doctor if you get a lump or swelling in your neck.

Stop, Zepbound, and call your doctor if you have severe stomach pain or a serious allergic reaction. Severe side effects may include inflamed pancreas or gallbladder problems. Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes before scheduled procedures with anesthesia. If you're nursing, pregnant, plan to be, or taking birth control pills. Taking Zepbound with a sulfonal urea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. Side effects include nausea, diarrhea, and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and worsened kidney problems. Talk to your doctor. Call 1-800-545-99 or visit Zepbound.lily.com.

So we're going to start the episode breakdown with the section I'm calling previously on The Last of Us because they start this season with the final scene from season one. We opened the clothes with the last scene of season one. And Joel's big lie, that was for you. And Joel's big lie to Ellie. Gonna make me cry right at the top. About her, all it went down, how it all went down with the fireflies. He swears and lies. Yes.

And she only mostly believes him is my interpretation of her facial experience. Talks herself into believing him is where I think we are on it. This just sounds dumb to say like, what a purposeful place to start. But what a purposeful place to start, right? to like most of the episode is going to be spent in the future, five years in the future. So to open, and we'll get to the next part of this opening also in the past, to open in the past and to like root us back in the heft and consequence of that moment. The way that that decision, that lie that Joel told and the decision that he made that led to the lie like continues to define not just their relationship, but literally the state of the world, right? That was the choice that Joel made.

Save Ellie, doom the world. And so to, you know, this was like thinking back to our finale consumption and covering it and that like really riveting debate of like, well, what choice? Easiest choice he ever. I loved the way that Neil Druckman after the episode was like, easiest choice he ever had to make. Right. And so the people who condemn it, the people who support it but are complicit in it when we're playing or watching, it's just incredible. And to be ported back to that headspace and that dissonance and conflict inside. incredible. And like, what do we know? We know for Joel, easiest choice for Ellie. It's not what she would have wanted, right? Like, after all we've been through everything I've done, it can't be for nothing. That was what she said to him with season one finale. And then he did that anyway. And it's just so important for us to like immerse in that feeling again as we start this new phase. It's not just like, it's not just like all we've been through. It can't be for nothing. It's inside of that, it's not just the journey of season one. But it's also like her living and.

Riley, her girlfriend not living. Yes. That's survivor's guilt. Absolutely. That stays with her. There has to have been a reason, a productive reason for it. And I have a purpose.

And I have a purpose. And now what? And it means something. Heavy. Heavy. In rewatching season one as I did and then I re-rewatched Season 1 episode one,

the parallels between that episode and this episode are either me. Do you do it? You went back to it yet again because you love a raisin cookie so much. is that? It's because... You love a raisin cookie.

I love a murderous grandmother. You love an Ocean Vista. You have horror crevice. You love a raisin cookie. So I was re-watching season one episode one. We're just at the beginning of the episode of Mallory. We got a lot to get to. I was just re-watching season one episode one.

Yes. For like the third time, the last number of many days. And sort of comparing the structure of this episode and structure of that episode. And there are either me overreaching and finding a lot of parallels or actually a lot of parallels. But like I was reminded. in rewatching that episode. This sort of swear to me, swear to me, sort of Batman-esque.

That's my Christian Bail is Batman swear to me. Incredible. You're welcome. I love it. I'm really accustomed right now to your Fisk, Vanessa. Yeah, swear to me. It's all of the piece. It is all of a gravelly piece.

So, you know, Ellie's like swear, right? That's something that Sarah said to him. Sarah would say it to him, his daughter, who he lost in season one episode one. So the Last of Us Firefly edition. So something we were tracking at the end of season one was all one of our listeners wrote in with this really astute observation, which is that in nearly, in every episode of season one, there was the last of us moment as in this is the last of us, the two of us, whether it's the last of Tess and Joel or the last of Bill and Frank or the last of X, Y, Z. Henry and Sam, yeah. Exactly.

And so the last of the fireflies, right? We are here. We see the giraffes. Dude. Which was this moment of wonder and delight for Joel and Ellie the end of season one, but anchors us in a very specific time and place. We know exactly where we are. We see those giraffes.

Yeah. And we see a group of young people that we've never met before. Yes. But the context clues, immediately let us know. These are the survivors of the Firefly massacre that Joel was responsible for. Yes. They're burying their dead. They tried to save people.

They'd saved no one. Yes. I thought this was so smart as instant time place, just a shorthand. We know where we are, again, reported back to like what happened. You know, pausing, trying to count the number of crosses to see the death. And, you know, we talk a lot when we're covering like a Lord of the Rings story, fresh tilled earth, this like beautiful, positive thing. To think of that fresh dirt full of the dead. That they just buried.

That they just had to bear it. their loved ones. Yeah. In that place that was, just the idea of, like, again, how brief and tenuous that spark or joy

can be when you discover it again in this universe was really, like, stark. And the fact that, like, season one episode one is called look to light, like that is look for the fireflies. We're the beacon

and snuffed out by Joel. Um, we meet Abby. Yes. Played by the great Caitlin Dever. We are among the, president's co-presidents of the Deaver fan club, just one of our absolute faves.

Absolute hardcore faves. Such a thrill. Abby and her friends Owen, Mani, Mel, and Nora. And we will see them again at the close of the episode, right? Yeah. And this is such an immediate, and this is a line we talked about a lot

when we covered season one from a different show entirely, Station 11. Yes. To the Monsters, we're the Monsters. This is such a to the Monsters, we're the Monsters moment. We got it when

we were dealing with Henry and Sam, like that whole interlude in season one, kids die all the time, right? With Melanie Linsky, et cetera, et cetera, was we were introduced to a story where there's compelling loss and compelling desire on both sides. And who is the actual villain

of this piece? It's hard to know inside of that story. Yes. With Joel and Ellie, to your point, the video game makes you complicit in this moment of Joel rescuing Ellie. there's no other option for you. You rescue her. That's the end of the game.

It's a decision, an active decision you have to make, but you're the villain of them. You have rampaged through an effort to save the worlds and snuffed it out against the wishes of Ellie and against the wishes and hopes

and dreams of any of the fireflies. And even if you were coming to it from, of course, I would do this for someone in my own life perspective and believe that to be true in your bones, the thing that you just said is undeniable and can't be taken out of the equation. So the last of us,

the last of the fireflies, right? This is it. And these people are no longer, this place was the fireflies. So they're not even fireflies anymore. You know what I mean? It's just like we're burying that in the ground. Shame. Good logo. Great. Merch. I love merch. As you know. On the Caitlin Deaver front. Yeah. A couple things to say. We are co-presidents of the Deaver fan club. Yes. Long, long time fans. Way back to when she showed up as Loretta McCready. Icon. Justified Season 2. One of the greatest TV characters

of all time. Indisputably. And Caitlin Deaver has just been crushing it across the board. Love book smart. Same. Love any, you know,

Apple cider vinegar, which she just did on Netflix. Amazing. When I hosted the Southby panel for The Last of Us, I saw her there. And I just had an immediate regret because I was like,

tell me about your accent work on Apple Sider Vinegar. Because she's this incredible Australian accent. And I was like, that's not really what you should have talked to Caitlin Deaver about. Yeah, but you're always on wigwatch and you're always on accent corner.

She can only be you. It was very important to me to talk to her about that. Something that Craig Mason said on that panel that they did at Southby was that Caitlin Deaver was originally someone they thought of for Ellie when she was a bit younger. Yeah, you can totally see it. You can totally see it if you've never seen justified, Loretta McCready and Ellie, like, hand in hand, right? So this idea that they cast Caitlin Deaver, and we talked about this a little bit on our trailer breakdown, but Abby, if you've seen visuals from the game, Abby is a, like, impressively jacked woman.

Yeah. I, someone who is, like, so new on my weightlifting journey, I'm just like, goals. Yeah. Incredible. Yeah. Kailene Deaver does not look like that. Right. And that's okay.

Totally. And I think it's really interesting that they cast someone who has this, she isn't, like, I wouldn't confuse her for Bella Ramsey in the street, but, like, they're of a similar piece. And so this idea that we meet Abby here, someone who we immediately know, and this is a diversion from the game, we know what she's after. She's after Joel. Yeah. And we know why she's after him. She wants to kill him slowly for vengeance. And that's not something we're privy to right away in the game. Right. And so we get this moment here. But that puts her as like a direct opposition to Ellie. Yeah. Yeah. I love that observation. I thought, like, too. the moment where we see Owen come in and take Abby's hands and we're lingering, like, just on the wristwatch. And then you think of a tie like that between Abby and Joel, you know, the role. We're going to talk more later about like the role of time in this universe.

Could we do the entire podcast just on Catherine O'Hara? Instant icon as Gail. We could. We could. We could. Clearly. We wanted to. But yeah, like looking for those parallels is really rewarding, I think.

They very crucially sort of cut off this conversation about whether or not Ellie could be a cure, right? Yeah, I thought I was fascinated by this because obviously like, you know, we get a, well, is it, is it, is it, um, Joel or Joe, you know, 50s graying beard, six foot tall scar on his right temple? Oh yeah, they say he's handsome. I forgot. Weird that Abby had access to my ideal match on a dating profile. Exactly what I look for. Just the exact. Mallory says, he's handsome. 50's creating beer, six foot tall, got it. But I thought that that like,

okay, so we know that despite them not knowing as a Joel or Joe, like they know what Joel did, they know what he's responsible for. Okay. Even though it's just a rumor and a whisper in the air and it is kind of quickly here like tamped down, the fact that there are even those whispers of

Ellie's immunity among people who survived what happened at St. Mary is fascinating. Like how many people still know, like even a whisper of that prospect surviving Joel's slaughter feels like it could. I genuinely have no idea, but it feels like it could come into play. Absolutely.

I mean, the reason Joel wipes everyone out is so that the word won't get out. Cordyceps grows in the brain. If you're going to use Ellie to make a cure, you have to kill her. That is not acceptable to Joel. so anyone knowing that she could be a cure? Didn't finish the job. Problem. Sloppy, half measures.

Okay. You should have killed these five teens as well. Yeah, you really should have killed these children. That's my firm stance. What would the Punisher say? Right. Okay. What do you make of introducing Abby here in this way, which is, again, different from the game.

Yeah. In a sort of relatively, I will say, because if Kaylyn Deaver, who we love, growls slowly, will kill him slowly about Joel, a character we love. Yeah. I'm not saying it's like Sunshine and Lollipops, but it is a slightly more sympathetic introduction, I think,

or informed introduction than we get of Abby in the game. What do you make it? Like, how does that work for you? I was deeply compelled by this. Watching Abby lean forward. I mean, everything that we're hearing, you know, you mentioned that like,

but we didn't save anyone, did we? And there's that rage, but also that sorrow that's driving that, like, a quiver in the voice. But when we see Abby lean down by one of those crosses and put one of the firefly pendants, like a firefly version of a dog tag, basically, the tears in the eyes, there is a connection there to those people in the ground that feels like something that is important

for us to understand as we embark on their journey ahead, right? Everybody who's standing there is mourning. And the way that Abby is mourning is, even though this is a character we have spent at this point in the story like four minutes with, three minutes with, like through this first episode, right? We see a foot crunch on snow and a glance at the end, but it's really just this scene. We don't have a lot of time, but we understand a lot about the depth of the despair that is driving her. I think this was smart. I think also, I mean, thanks in a lot of ways to Caitlin Deaver's performance, but also, in addition to everything brilliant that you just said, I love talking to you about the show.

I think the usness of this group. Yes. Right? We'll help you. We'll kill him. Let's go to Seattle. Right. We, you know, we're not going to do exactly what you want to do, which is go right

away. We're going to, first we're going to go to Seattle, drink some coffee and listen to some Pearl Jam. And then we will. Sounds great. You know, help you. But we are with you. We are in us.

Yes. Absolutely. The loyalty and commitment among that group of people, not only the show, shared history, but the way that shared loss drives and inform, share history, and then shared pursuits in the future. What makes in us, what pushes forward this idea of tribalism is so key to this game. Yeah. Five years later.

Real Avengers Endgame move here. This was interesting, too, just like in a little way. I wonder why five instead of four in the game it's four. I don't know why the one year change, but I assume there's a reason. I think maybe just to line, because then we have Elia's 19, yeah, I guess, okay. A day in the life. Yeah. Is what we have here.

Both in this episode in the first half of season one episode one, show us a day in the life of our characters, right? We meet Joel at the beginning of season one, episode one. It's Sarah's birthday. We're with Sarah, really, but it's Sarah's birthday. Shells and the eggs. Yeah. No pancake mix. Thank God.

Thank God. Thank God. Thank God. Thank God. We're with Sarah on her last day. Yeah. Right. So it's very, show us what we're about to lose.

Yes. And it's very Bilbo's birthday party. Let's spend some time in the Shire before everything goes to shit. This was so on my mind throughout the entire episode, but like particularly at the end, you know, the New Year celebration. We talked about this a lot in the first season, the sixth episode when we go to Jackson and, you know, the Joel and Ellie have that moment, like this place actually fucking. and works, right? Like just the idea of a functioning society. But to your point, it has to be more

than that. It can't just be utility. It has to be like the thing that allows you as a person, a character in the world to become rooted in a place, like rooted in a world and a universe. Are you saying survival is insufficient? Survival is insufficient. And like I love, because especially because how many times we should set an over under, there should be a thing we do and then the thing we track over under for station 11 mentions this season. I make no promise. I make no promises.

Vegas took it off the fore. Never mind. Never mind. But especially in this universe where, you know, when we think back to episode five in season one, Sam and Ellie bonding over their love of Savage Starlight, this is a story, whether it's the title of an episode or the line in the comics that the characters love, like survive and endure. So to see that that's not enough.

Survive and celebrate. Yes. Yeah, survive and share, survive and build. The question we get three times for Ellie inside of this episode is, are you going to the thing tonight, right? And she's happy to say, like, yeah, to everyone but Joel. She's like, I don't know. Maybe.

But like you should go. We should go. We should celebrate things, you know? There was some chatter, I remember, around season one episode one, that it was almost too faithful to the opening the first game, which is not how I felt because I was not like someone who had played the game a lot or whatever, but it was something that some people were noting. And they're like, is this going to be just a beat for beat recreation of the game?

And then people got to episode three and they were like, I'd retract. I'd like to retract my inquiry. Absolutely. Never mind. But I think it's really interesting in this episode, you know, without getting to spoiler territory. But like, this episode loosely takes place kind of the day before. We hear about the dance, the Dina Kiss, the fight with Seth. We hear about it as the gameplay.

As the gameplay starts, we hear about it. Yeah. But we don't. see it. So this is, so they've taken us just like sort of one step back in time. There's some stuff that's the same. The market, we'll get to that and stuff like that. But like, that's interesting to me that they're like, it's scary, but they're like, we're really not doing a direct adaptation this season. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm so curious to see in general, like just season one had so many deeply faithful moments and then so many really sweeping changes.

We talked about this a lot in season one. We're not in a habit here of, of touting non-ringer podcasts, typically. Listen to our podcast, God damn it. But we talked so much throughout season one every episode about the official pod that Troy Baker and Craig Mason and Neil Drachman were doing together because it was, I mean, they were just so insightful talking about their own project. And that element in particular of like the nature of adaptation and how they would collaborate over and decide like what is the right moment to make a change. I thought was like consistently riveting to listen to them to. And we should say we'll be doing, we'll be incorporating their comments again more throughout the season. Because we're banking this early. That's not as I was present today, obviously, because it can't be.

But that'll, that'll be back. Absolutely. That will be back. I love that. I love that pod. But like, I think also this is something Rob Mahoney and I were sort of just idly talking about this idea of like, it's not a do-over because I know that Druckman is incredibly proud of the Lasso's Part 2 as he should be. It's an incredible game. But given the heated nature around the conversation, that has to. to be so much more top of mind when figuring out how to adjust and recraft the story for this particular adaptation versus adapting the first version, the first game. You know, it's like this is a game that some people kicked on the way that the storytelling, you know, so we're not going to change fundamentally the story we're telling, but we're going to change slightly the way we're rolling it out. And I don't think that's like an apology or an admission that they got it wrong, but it's just sort of like a, hey, let's take another bite of the apple and let's see if we, let's see

about doing it this way. Right. You know what I mean? Yeah, absolutely. Okay. Anything you want to say about this opening sparring situation other than Ellie using the classic iconic Saeed Choke You With My Thighs maneuver, which is one of our favorites. Dude, what a time for us and the Saeed choke you with my thigh maneuver making its

way back into our lives via television. We recently got to enjoy watching Matt Murdoch do this in a stairwell of all places. On Darry and Apple Porn again. We're living. We're living. I just I thought this was like a great way to bring us into the modern, the contemporary timeline back into Jackson, you know, when Ellie and Joel departed in episode six to head down to Colorado. And, you know, Tommy was like, there's a place for you here, both of you.

To see right away that that's true, right? Things are not perfect. There's a lot of tension. There's a lot of stuff to talk about there. But like five years later they're here. Like they made a life. Ellie's on patrol. Joel's like basically a town elder. He's not on the council, but he is like, you know. The classes? I can't wait to talk about all of that.

What we get to see Ellie's tattoo and this like, you know, scrabbling for purchase down in the straw. In terms of just the respective sizes of the two participants, there's obviously like the brief, you know, I wouldn't say they were actually trying to go for a fake out of like, oh my God, is Ellie in a terror? Because it's so cool. But like, oh my God.

Is something a foot? then you realize pretty quickly it's training. But this is like Aria versus like the mountain kind of like. This guy's huge. And so it was just really like, fuck yeah, there goes my favorite badass watching Ellie force this guy to tap out to tap out and yield. That was really fun. And like the looks of Ellie with the blood coming at her.

She looks almost feral. Well, Jesse having to like repeat himself. It's like okay means. Yeah. Okay. That was all really great. And, you know, in terms of just quickly glimpsing the tattoo, we're going to talk more about that. The symbolism, like, we'll get to that elsewhere in the season.

But, like, just again, these quick, these quick orienting things at the top of the episode, time has passed. Right away, right? Yeah, we see five years later, but, like, Ellie looks different and, like, it roots us in such an effective way. And also just, obviously, this is, like, an iconic thing from the game. So to see it rendered on TV, very cool and very fun, the tattoo. The tattoo, not the leg choke. So in this sequence where we were checking in with Ellie and we meet Jesse. Yes.

And then the next scene we're checking with Joel and we meet Dina. And Jesse and Dina are like the two main new characters on the show. And so from a storytelling point of view, this is such elegant storytelling of like we meet Jesse. We learn of his authority. We learn of his relationship with Ellie. We learned that, you know, sort of everyone around her is acting in, going soft on her in deference to Joel. Yes. So learning about Jesse's relationship to Joel, to her, but not saying, hi, I'm Jesse. I am, you know, one of the young and up and coming

leaders of this town and blah, blah, blah. Or hi, I'm Dina. I'm Ellie's best friend, et cetera, et cetera. They're just sort of, we already know each other. We're here. We're in it. Yeah, I love that. And there's multiple conversations. There's Jesse and Ellie. There's Dina and Joel. And then there's Ellie and Tommy where they're talking, Ellie and Joel are talking about each other. And quite often, not in every case, you know, they're name dropping a little bit, but, you know, it's like, oh, he said this. Oh, she's, why is she mad at you? Right. Oh, he said this.

And it's just like, I love that because we are not underestimating our audience. Like, we can keep up if you just use pronouns. It's how normal people would talk. And then it's also like, if you're, if things are tense, maybe you don't say the name. Maybe you just say he would want this. He wouldn't want that. You and he are so similar, like all this sort of stuff. This is a great of really, really great observation.

I like it too because, like, it's unmistakable to everyone else who the he or she could be for each of them. Yeah. There's no one else that could possibly be. It's us. It's us. It's Ellie and Joel. And, like, the state they're in is something we won't parse. But, like, who else could they possibly mean?

I love that. And to your point about the response Ellie has to. to Jesse like, well, you know, he pulled the punch. I don't want, Joel, ugh. You know, that, her annoyance that Jesse cares what Joel would think. Her annoyance over Tommy's, like, you're going off patrol into gatewatch moment. How she reacts, obviously, later to, like, Joel pushing Seth at the dance. All of the responses to the way that people cower to Joel specifically this element.

of her. Yes. And this element of like, do what I say, control violence. The thing that drew them together at the start is a wedge now. And that's just like, talk about feeling the passage of time. That's fascinating. We see that Jackson's covered in a blanket of snow, right? Bustling, thriving.

It looked beautiful. Absolutely pristine. I'm sure everything will be fine. And we get the root choked pipes right away. I miss this the first time I saw the episode. But the second time, obviously, seeing the yearning time. tendrils come out of the pipe at the end. I mean, Dina mentions it in the next scene. But just sort of like, so it gets this early drop. And then later we're like, there's fucking

tendrils in that pipe. Not good. Not good. And we know, Joanna, you touch a tendril in one place. I'm like, the comms. They go wide. It's worrying. Where's like fire? You know what I mean? Like, okay, anyway. Deeply, deeply, deeply, deeply worrying. I clutched you when we saw the learning tendrils to emerge through the pipe route. I did like hearing Dina just like, oh, oh, well, that's fucked. Yeah. It's like our first introduction.

There's like, ah, like something like this is crack. That's fucked. That's fucked. Great stuff. Here's Joel. And they say he's handsome. And they're right. Let me tell you something.

The fact that Pedro Pascal is playing a 61 year old. And he just turned 50. He did. Happy birthday. He just like, Joel has age. Fine. Mine. Wonderfully.

Yeah. A borto. The hair looks great. An orange wine, maybe. You don't age or orange wine, do you? I love it. But I love an orange wine, as you know. I'm an enthusiast.

His hands are still shaking. This is a season one thing, right? There is the hairline fracture in his hand. But we talked about this a lot in season one because shaking hand is, of course, a sign of infection. So for Joel, it's wear and tear, it's age. But also something that on the official pod, Mazen and Druckman like to talk about is the way in which Joel is infected to a certain degree with, like, grief. the violent, like sort of the bersererker rages that he goes on.

They're like, that's very... Deerly departed from punching... Deerly departed. Deerly departed. Deerly departed. As Ellie watched. Dump in the pills right into the pocket of his uniform. Okay. So the violence and then also the love, that this love is like an infection rooted deep in his heart.

So I love... Okay. Next time my handshakes, I'm going with that and not just... You shouldn't have 17 cups of coffee in one day. There's a lot to love in terms of the casting of the season. Caitlin Deaver, as we've already mentioned, we're lifelong fans. Catherine Ahera, Canadian legend. And I con.

Genie and I are huge beef fans. We love Young Mazzino, like blah, blah. Sensational. I think Izzy Merced, Isabel Mercedad steals this episode. I think Her Dina is so. immediately captivating. Yeah. And the chemistry that she has with Joel.

Yes. And then, of course, the chemistry she has with Ellie. But I just think she's not someone whose work I was previously familiar with. And I just think she's perfect. Strong cosine here. Strong same. I had a fun experience where I was like, why is this person not the most famous person alive? And then Googled her.

And I was like, oh, she kind of is. She's got a massive following. She's extraordinary. All of the different notes. I can't wait to talk later about the dance and the kiss and the, oh my God, just like the magnetism of that moment. We have the real and many different sequences in the episode, like easy charm and humor. We obviously have this great bond with Ellie and Dina, but also these important contrasts, you know, the ease with which Dina is moving through the dance or the world. Like all of these things that we feel so quickly right away.

And to your point about all the different pairings right away, like also just in terms of the kind of like parental or not pairings, we have like to go from from Dina and Joel to then Tommy. And Ellie is just like such a effective disruption of our expectations for who we'd be spending time with and how. But yeah, I agree with you. Like I thought the – and she's got a lot of the episode on her shoulders, like a lot. And she was just magnificent. Absolutely crushed it.

I love that Dina clocks that he's not. therapy with Gail. This was incredible. I love the sort of like, you know, he's like, I don't know, it's fine, it's normal, it's fine. And then he's like, oh, but I'm trying and she's not. This is Joel in a yearn space. He is yearning for connection with Ellie.

Yes. These goddamn writers love a yearn, right? And we love a yearn, which is part of why we love this show. We love a yearn. But like, thinking about test yearning for Joel, which was something never asked you to She watched. It's so tough. Ellie, like, sort of yearning after Joel, who was closed off for a few episodes before he cracked open for her.

Joel for Sarah, you know, and now Joel for Ellie and Ellie for Dina, which we'll get to in a second. And I just think that, like, that yearn, which I love a yearn so much. But the table flip of, like, Joel was closed off. Ellie was trying to sort of, like, crack him. And now Ellie's closed off. And Joel's like, I'm trying. I don't know what to do. And we don't have all the context.

No. For what has happened in the interviewing five years. Is this just she's 19 year old? We don't think so. Right. And Gail certainly doesn't think so. Right. And so what, I don't know, further information as Ellie learned in the intervening years?

Right. Does she actually know something? Is it a mounting suspicion can no longer ignore that feeling in her gut? Like, I can't wait to find out. On that yearning point, like I was so strong. part of the reason that Pedro Pascal is one of the great gifts of our lives. Yeah. Just to say it, it's true.

He can convey so much with half a glance with one like wrinkle of a certain part of his face. It's just incredible. And like the little flash of gratitude that passed on his face here when Dina just showed interest in him and made him feel like he had something to impart. Obviously, we will hear him like literally say this to Gail later. But the way you felt it here before he voiced it, you think back to like when he was when he was so vulnerable revealing to Tommy in season one episode six, like I'm failing in my sleep. Like his fear that he was going to get Ellie killed, his fear that he was inadequate. And so like a moment like this that makes him feel not only adequate in contrast to what's going on with him in Ellie right now, but like he has something actively tangible to offer that can improve somebody else's circumstance. there was a desperation there.

I just loved it. He wants to provide. This is something they talked about a lot in season one that like Joel's favorite role is protector provider, right? So he's providing information for Dina here.

Later he will be like teaching his nephew Benji. You don't lick the wires. To test. That's what I... You taught us something too. Is that your most important takeaway? In the top five.

Okay, great. In the top five, now I know. Dina knows and I know. In that British GQ piece that I said it earlier. I loved this Craig Mason quote about sort of like why he was so interested in adapting this for or what he's so valued about the game.

And he says, quote, confidence that story and characters were worth stopping for. And this is so interesting when we think about gameplay as like an active, you know, when you're playing The Last of Us, you know, because you're playing, I only know because I'm watching, but like, you know, you're being attacked by mushroom zombies and you're jumping on their backs and you're stabbing them.

Like you're doing all these things. Love a stealth grab and stab. It's so scary. Their mouths are right there to bite at you. That's my favorite move, but simply, candidly, because I'm just so bad at shooting. But like, there's action, there's danger, there's all of this.

And we get action and danger inside this episode. But what we so loved about season one is how much time was also just spent in quiet conversation. So Dina is sitting down to talk to Joel here is. incredible. Ellie and Tommy are, of course, doing a slightly more violent version of this. But it's interesting that you talk about parental. My Ellie Tommy vibe, but this is similar to how

Tommy was with Sarah, is like, we're pals being bros. Yeah. We're hanging out. Yes. Where I'm not your father. I'm not your uncle. I'm like your bro. I'm your pal. Yeah. Yeah. I think there's, I have more to say on the specific activity they're doing in terms of the shift that that points to there. But yeah, I do agree with that five-wise. A lot of them out there. Very ominous line. What do you want to say about the activity of this? This idea of learning to shoot. You know, when the...

I just love to see those fungal plates explode. Ellie Lance the headshot. They're giggling. They're proud. Right? This scope is sick. It ain't the scope. It's the shooter.

You're getting good. First of all, we think back to, like, Tom. All of Tommy's boasts that Joel immediately called bullshit on about, like, you know, it's a turkey shoot with all this open country. And I can, boom, from like half a mile out. But so much of season one was like one of the real true genuine three lines of season one was Ellie wanted to learn to shoot. And then like how did we track what happened there? So the initial Joel and test just like, no.

You know, I've got another hand. No! Ellie just wants that gun. She wants that gun. wants it to the point where she takes it in secret from the desk drawer at Bill and Franks. Ends up using it to save Joel's life. RIP Bryant. Sad.

Really begged at the end. the moment where Joel eases in to tutelage, right? Talking about the grip, how you hold it. But that wasn't the end point. We then have like in episode six where they have the, you know, iconic famous argument in that bedroom that we'll talk about more elsewhere in the episode today. They're arguing about Sarah. Ellie's like, I would just be more scared,

all of the things that are bubbling to the surface. and it's only after they break through that and Joel makes the choice. It shouldn't be Tommy. Ellie at least deserves to decide. She picks Joel. They go that they finally do the full thing, right? Squeeze that trigger like you love it.

You're trying to teach me to shoot or like get this thing pregnant. The little target with the word asshole written on it. Like Joel being next to Ellie's side as she worked to get better with a rifle with a shotgun. Like was so central to the evolution of their relationship. And so like I thought it was really cool to see that Ellie and Tommy were. doing this together and that they bonded and that they were in a good place with each other. But like it signaled so much to me about the distance between Joel and Ellie that he wasn't the one out there doing that with her. And then of course there's a lie about like I was one.

Yeah, yeah. Tommy. That's them's cheating words. I think that like I think that's such a good observation and it reminded me of later in the episode we get Dina and Ellie bonding over puns, which was like a similar way that we tracked in season one in the relationship between Ellie and Joel. but it's like puns for Ellie and Joel, that's an us thing. It was an Ellie and Riley thing too, but like this is an us thing. Shout out Will Livingston. You know, tar your practice, this is an us thing. Yeah.

But it's things that she's doing with Tommy and things that she's doing with Ellie because she's not in a place where she can do. Yeah, it's like heartbreaking. Yeah. Speaking of uncles, though, Joel is, you know, getting in some uncle time with Lil Benji, who's an adorable little peanut, a really cute kid. So precious. I loved this. He's on the ground while, you know, Maria and Joel are having like an important logistical

conversation about infrastructure and building it and stuff like that. And he's playing with this plane in the air. And I think it's so interesting, like as a call back to season one of this idea, we talked about this a lot in season one, this idea of generations inside of apocalypse. This is something that they talk about Station 11 as well. of the people who are, the people who were born back when the world was normal. And then you've got someone like Ellie who was born after the apocalypse, right?

She doesn't know any different. This is something that Tess talked about, right? They don't know any different. Yeah. Then you get someone like Benji who was born in the sort of like maybe relative calm and peace of Jackson. Yeah. And so that's a different experience entirely. But Ellie and Benji both have never and probably.

maybe we'll never see a plane in the air. So the fact that we see him playing with this plane in the air is like watching a kid play with dragons. Totally. It's like a mythical creature. Yes. What I wrote out of my notes was like our version of playing with an X-wing. Yeah, yeah.

Totally. And like, you know, when we think about that moment with Ellie and Joel where they passed the wreckage of the plane on their way to Bill and Franks and like, you know, it's really funny because he's like, she thinks, oh, you're so lucky. And he's like, well, you know, they weren't. She's like grim. So we get the humor. but there was that just

that perspective, right? Of like the things that are just routine for us now that we take for granted and what would it actually be like if they were all gone? Now I'm just saying something that is about like dystopian storytelling more broadly. But it is part of what I think is a consistent draw for us.

That like on the Station 11 front that it had a museum of civilization, you know, element to it as well with like, obviously it's not an iPod, but just like collecting these like a relic from silo, like these things from the past that, I don't know, I really love that. And the other kind of quick glimpse right at the beginning of that section of like, we see a cart full of refugees come in because they're all the bags and they go past a couple of dogs.

So I thought that was also a really quick, effective way to show us that things in Jackson have changed. This is part of the tension here between Joel and Maria because she's like, you were a refugee too. Right. Let's build, build, build. Yeah. Yes. We got to welcome people in. Like those dogs, I'm sure they're still doing all of the same screening and like making sure that people aren't infected when they come in.

But the, oh, is what if that's the river of death? Like the aura around Jackson in season one was head that way and die. Yeah. Head that way and perish. But now it's refugees welcome. It's an oasis. Yeah. That's so different over just a few years.

It's so different. But it's so dangerous. because if you get that reputation as an oasis, then sort of... Yeah. And that was one of the things Joel kind of... Build that wall, maybe. But in season one, Joel was like,

are we the wrong sort? You know? Like, the idea that they could be afraid of them. And now for Joel to be the one here who's like, yeah, like, if our life vote is swamped, yeah, we leave them out here. And Maria's really, like, appalled by that. But that's, of course, the exact same impulse

that led Joel to make the decision that he made in Salt Lake City, right? Protect yours at the extent. expensive anyone else. But it's like in, it's baked into who he is because when we meet him in season one, episode one, and they're fleeing in Texas. And Tommy and Sarah both are like, hey, those people need help. Hey, they have a baby. And Joel's like, don't care. Someone else will stop, not us. Yes. It's a great call because that's before he lost Sarah. We talk a lot about losing Sarah and of course it is this defining occurrence in his life, but you're right. It's, it's,

it's impuls and instinct for him before then. He's like, this is the us. The us is Tommy, Joel, Sarah in this car. That's it. You know? Yes. Joel is very cute with Benji, though. But the message is upsetting. This is where we live.

What's that? The fence. What's inside? People. What's outside? Monsters. Right? It's like who's in here, people.

Yes. Who's out there monsters? And on one level, sure. This is a trailer line. We talked about it then. On one level, sure, there's people with mushrooms going out of their heads outside. Absolutely.

But there's also that card people that you just cited who came in. Those are people outside. But are they monsters because they're outsiders. They're the them. We're the us. Sort of thing. That was another real like recurring refrain across the first season with Joel and Ellie, like the idea that the real threat always was other people. And that just is a true thing in this world. And it's certainly something that Joel considers to be like inextricable from his worldview and how he conducts himself. So it was like, it's interesting to think of like what you're saying, you know, the idea of Benji coming up in this relative period of safety and stability in place of a safe harbor. But that being the thing you hear and learn. Like that being what you're weaned on. They're monsters. Everywhere. Everywhere except right here. Very Sersy Lanister. Yes. Everyone who isn't us. Everyone who isn't us is the enemy. Exactly. What did you think of constructometer? Did you think that this was just a tease for Fantastic Four. Real Reed Richards energy here with Constructometer. And also. Wonderful to make us think back to test in season one.

Like, okay, this has been Construction Corner with Joel Miller. And the way Ellie was like, contractor. I've always loved that. No, you in Siding Fantastic Four makes me think of the voice member we got from Van yesterday. Historic stuff even by Van's usual standards. Dombins replied like eight hours later to be like, I knew I had to wait until the kids were a bed, but it was worth those.

Yeah. Van sent us a fantastic four rap that he has composed that I'm sure we'll make it on to the Midnight Boys at some point. So stay tuned. Also, the fact that we're looking at maps. Okay, so Joel, as we very first met him, was in construction. This has been a through line. Contractor. But also when he's talking, he and Tommy are talking to Sarah in the first episode. Yes. They're talking about Jakarta, right? They're talking about the news. And Tommy and Joel are not quite up on where Jakarta is. and Sarah knows. And they're like, she's our bright spark for the future, right? Sarah has been paying attention

in school in a way that we never did. So that's great. But it's Jakarta. It's Indonesia. It's the world, you know, sort of thing. And it's, now it's just Jackson. The map is just Jackson

and what's inside the wall and what's outside the wall. And that is how the world has shrunk in this post-apocalyptic space. Yeah. And like, oh, God, that's a great observation. And in some ways you would think, oh, that would make it easier. Easier to maintain, protect, preserve, to do all the things that Joel is inclined to do.

But also that then has a real, there's a possibility there that it heightens all the bad aspects of that, right? Like, this was something else we talked about throughout season one was, and something that Mazen and Druckman both spoke consistently so beautifully about, like, love, parents love, love in general. wonderful and also dangerous. And that was the other thing that was really, I thought, powerful about, even though it was short seeing Joel with Benji, seeing him, like, prop him on his lap and just be, like, so sweet with him and just to see Tommy walk in and scoop up his son and kiss him and hold him and go over to Maria.

Because, like, I mean, there are a lot of, like, soul-shattering, really upsetting things that happen in season one. I will posit till the day I die that one of the most, most upsetting moments is when Tommy tells Joel that he's going to have a kid. And Tommy says, I feel like I'd be a good dad. And Joel is so subsumed by his own grief that he says, guess we'll find out. And just is not, genuinely is not capable of being happy for his brother because he is

so lost in his own sorrow, which again is very human and very relatable. And part of why Joel is such an incredible character, but was like devastating to see. And so the fact that he can celebrate Tommy's family and like they can share that together. I just thought really moving. Are you ready to go to therapy? This is one of my favorite scenes in like the recent history of television. I thought this was

unbelievable. I just fucking, I mean, we had the pleasure of doing the best in show, rewatchable recently, so we've very recently talked about Catherine. Good old cookie, yeah. She is, I tend to I don't know, it's inclined toward hyperbole. You know, might throw out, might just slightly overused, like, legend, great, one of iconic,

but she is, like, actually one of the greats. And this use of her? So this is an adaptive change, we should say. So a couple things. We didn't mention this, but we did talk about in season one. Benji, Maria and Tommy's kid. Yeah. That's a show invention.

Yes. And he gave me a very evasive answer, but I did ask Andrea Luna about what does it change for Tommy, that he's a dad. versus the Tommy that we know in the game. Yeah. They just didn't want to say anything about it. They were scared to say anything about anything.

You know what I mean? But he's just like, he's a dead. You know, he was just sort of like giving me a little glib answer, which is fine. But like, but it's a huge difference. Tommy is a dad. That's a different character. No question. And Gail is a show invented character.

Eugene is not who she mentions right away. Yeah. Right away, Joel walks in and he immediately clocks the shoes, right? And this is another Last of Us moment, right? This is the last of... At some point, Gil's going to have to throw Eugene's shoes out or get rid of them, right? I mean, maybe she'll keep them there forever. Shoes are...

There's not an endless supply of shoes in the world. That's true. I need to recycle the boots. So, like... This was really sad. Seeing the shoes there and Joel... Like, he might just walk down at any point to put them on again. And Joel's reaction to that.

And especially, like, you watch it the first time. And if you haven't played the game and don't know anything about anything, you're just sort of like, oh, some shoes. Joel's reacting weirdly too. Right. And then you get the reveal inside of this therapy session of not only is Gail drinking and upset because it's her birthday and she's sad and her husband isn't here. But Joel is the one who killed her husband. Now he had to do it.

Yes. She says, but it's the way he did it that makes her so angry. And we don't know what that is. Absolutely no idea. This made my heart pounded in my chest in a way. Like I love feeling when I'm watching something. what We hear Gail say

What did you do To Joel in this exchange But then in this other context with Eugene What did he do? What did he do? Why did he have to kill Eugene? Was Eugene infected? Okay.

And then if he was, What was so inhumane about the way that Joel handled that? Right. And this isn't, We can speculate freely because like This is a change from the game.

You know, in the game Eugene is present. Like, it was really fun to me that he was paying and weed because like, Eugene is just grow house. It's like, I mean, very impressive. Yeah. We'd palace of Eugene's and we, you know, discover like a letter and we see photos of him, but

that's different. Gail, it's like you said, a show invention and this relationship. He has a wife in the game, but it's a different, different name, different character. And Eugene is like, it's just different. And we hear actually other characters talk about how he, like, just got old and died of a stroke. Yeah. And how lucky to die of natural causes is what they say. What a rare and enviable thing.

That is not how this, and that is not how this Eugene went. And I mean, similarly, like, when they did the Franken Bill story in season one, they made some significant, those were not just, not just those are a character we meet via letter or whatever, but they changed the end of their story significantly.

So are we going to get a Gail and Eugene? We know that they have cast Joey fucking pants. Joey pants as Eugene. I just can't believe we get to watch us. Are we going to get a Eugene and Game? episode. I'm not sure I would survive it. Survive and endure, they say,

but I'm not sure I would be able to. That would be incredible. I can't wait. Is it not a whole episode, but just flashbacks? I don't know, but I cannot wait. They might not want to do a whole episode the way that, you know, I mean, Bill and Frank wasn't that whole episode because there was Joel and Ellie in that as well.

But like, okay. Interesting. Something that I think is so interesting, again, rewatching season one episode one. There's this exchange in season one episode one. where Tess is being held captive by some people who have fucked her over. And they're basically scared, scared to let her go. Yeah.

Because they're like, what? She's like, I'll just forget about it. Don't worry. I've done fucked up this stuff. And they're like, yeah, but what about your guy? Yeah. Uh-huh. Because they're scared shitless about Joel.

Yep. And I feel a similar thing here where Gail's just like, I'm angry at you. But also like, I think she's just like a little scared because she's like, should I say it? Yeah, I'll just say it. You know, but there's like a little bit of fear there from her. with Joel. And then when she asks him, like, did you hurt Ellie? Yeah. There's a way in which she thinks of Joel as something to be feared. Yeah. He's something to be feared in absentia in season one episode one. He's something to be feared inside of a therapy session by his own therapist.

Yeah. Heather on Daredevil, pay attention. You know what I mean? Like, this is a, I think this is like a really fascinating exchange. Did you do something to her? Did you hurt her? Oh my God. Joel's face here. The tears, the shaking of the head. Like, I just thought this was all so striking. That Gale, Girding herself up, like, should I say it out loud? Yeah, you can't heal something unless you're brave enough to say it out loud. We just met this character. Show invention tells us so much right away about who this person is, what they're carrying inside, how they navigate life, about that dynamic with Joel as you're brilliantly highlighting.

But what does it tell us then about the person on the couch across from her, right? It's like you can't heal something unless you're brave enough to say it out loud. Like this is a very pregnant idea for us to be carrying with us this season where this looming specter of this choice that Joel made and this lie that he told Ellie and this distance and secret between them. And we don't know if he's told anyone. And this is like, so here he says, Then what? What did you do? I saved her.

But he doesn't get into any particulars here. So Gail doesn't necessarily know. Right. And that I saved her line. Yes. We don't want to get too much into it necessarily right here. But like that I saved her line is something he says to Tommy. Yes.

Inside of the game. Yes. But here it's to Gail. Yes. And so it's like a very different kind of conversation to have with Gail versus to have with Tommy. Other than Catherine Hara being a Canadian treasure and the and the dream of the prospect of having a Gail and Eugene episode or interlude or something. like that. What do you make of adding a therapist, adding therapy to our time with Joel here? This is just an incredible creative decision. I mean, I agree. I just want to say, can I just ask you a question

and then I'm in a talk to you. No, please. Do it. There are times that this doesn't work for me. Therapist as exposition often doesn't go for me. I'm with you completely. I think the reason I love this is not just because Joel has so much he's carrying and so much he needs to work through, but because he is, as Gail calls him out on repeatedly here, not using therapy to do that at all. Right. He is sitting there and he is lying. I thought it was like very charming and cute in a great Joel way to be like, what do I get for it? Nothing. Like should have never allowed her to move into the garage? Like, you know, to go back to the Dina Joel scene because like we get to a couple moments of this like, you know, Joel with Dina is kind of like, yeah, well, you know,

she's 19, like, oh, what I am to her, like normal. And then Gail kind of like, taking that same idea, but like repositioning it here, like stop pretending you have the most boring idea in the world. And this has always been something I've loved about the show and particularly love in this context, like, the way that it does, it can and does have it both ways. We're like, of course, this is true. It's not the most boring problem in the world. We know what Joel did. And like, there is a real distinct unmatched in any other person's life thing that happened between them that we're feeling the weight of and that has carried forward into the future. But also, there is actually despite that driver, like a 19-year-old who is like stop coming into my bedroom and turning on the lights.

I want the lights off element to it. And that also is true. I'm listening to Nirvana, Dad. I love that part of it. And so like when he just like when he was talking about Dina de Gale and he was like, that one Dina, treats me like a human being. She talks to me, says hello, gives me a smile, looks up to me, makes me feel like I'm a good guy, which I am, which he doesn't believe. I mean, what a thing to say out loud and try to convince that other person of and of course,

most crucially try to convince himself of. We can think back to Tess saying to, you know, to Ellie, like Joel and I aren't good people and all the things that are revealed just across season one before the decision and the finale. What Maria said to Ellie, what Tommy has said about their time.

Tommy's talking about the justification. Right. But so like how can Joel make the kind of progress Tommy is made if Joel doesn't have that kind of like inward clarity? And to not, then to be in therapy but not use it for that. It's like,

help me get her to like talk to me again. Yeah. It again, it's like utilitarian for him. And Gail's like that's not the work. I just thought this was really, really, really fascinating. Aren't you supposed to be validating me or something just?

this iconic instant pantheon moment. It's wonderful stuff. I absolutely loved it. We get an utterance of tick, tick, tick, and also the egg timer that was in the trailer. And we should note that in the first game, the first sound you hear in The Last of Us, Part 1, the first game, is the ticking of a clock. So this idea of time, passing time running out, Maria being like, can you speed up construction and Joel being like, sure, let me invent something that will change how time works for you. You know, this idea of, you know, five years in a blink of an eye for us as viewers.

I think it's all really interesting. Okay. Recon Mission Time with Ellie, Dina, and Kat, the icon cat. It's like I've got some management notes for Kat. Very ineffectual. Okay. So we get, I mean, like before we go on the recon, we get this. Nirvana needle drop, right? We're not. 80s music means danger. Does that mean the 90s hits means

safety? I sure hope so. I love that for me. It's just fun to see this room, wasn't it? Oh, yeah. So many details from the game are here. The lava lamp is here. The posters are similar. We've got like the astronaut. We know Ellie wanted that was a dream, right? Going to space. Like all of that was really fun Savage Starlight poster. Yeah. Laval lamp was key to me. I was a huge lava lamp enthusiast when I was a teen. I had them for a years. Yeah. I mean, into like, I would say, I don't know, I'd beyond my teen years, actually. I, if I'm being honest. I will tell you that. I don't have one now. It was sort of disappointing to me. You know when you get a lava lamp and it's in pieces and you find out that the top is just like a bottle with a bottle cap on it? Yeah. That's real sort of. It just looks like you

like a root beer. Don't, don't drink it. Don't do that. Don't drink it. Oh, man. Yeah. I do remember that well, I do remember that well, I only had ever one. Okay. I loved it. It would. It would red with like white goop in it or like white orange goop in it. So yeah, it was just sort of like this light goopiness inside of the red. What was yours? I think. Should I get a lovelin? Clearly the answer is yes. Should we put one? Should we get one in the studio? Yes. Yes. Let's do it. Guys, when Joe's back later this summer, let's make sure we have a lovelamp. The one that I had in my teenage years and then later Adam got me on. Classics. They were both actually kind of like teal. Oh yeah. That's a good one.

Yeah. Purple is also a good. Wonderful stuff. But I love OG Red, big fan. Okay. What did you think of the practice hand with which Ellie was cleaning those guns, man? Again, talk about a shorthand. This is just a part of her life.

Just a girl's life. Just classic girl stuff in her room stuff. So you have this elsewhere in the dock, but to call back to that, like, this is a girl's life, just a girl in her room. Like that moment in season one where Ellie's sitting on the window bench like reading the journal from the person

who used to live there and like, this was like the stuff they worried about. Boys? Skirts. this is like this is just a different vibe and then we'll talk later about how oh is it a different vibe in another moment

but here it's like God a 19 year old who has to sit there and clean all of their weaponry to survive on patrol it's not the before times that's for sure everyone has their hobbies and I refuse to hobby shame Ellie anyway so Dina shows up yes we get this like very loaded Dina's adjusting her clothing and like it's up to

to belly Ramsey's face to tell us exactly what's going on and absolutely kills. Classic teenage moment. Just like immediately. We had already met Dina and we're like, you're her best friend. Yes. Right. She hasn't talked to you about why she's mad at me.

So we're like, oh, the best friend. And then you're like, nope, that's not what's going on. That's not the energy. They were roommates. No, they are not. Ellie grabs her knife. That's her mom's knife. Yes.

Yeah. And then she goes out to see Shimmer. Her horse that we met and sees one. Beautiful sweet shimmer all grown up. Ellie looking like Curtis and Miper is both Tina. and Jesse call out very amusing. And like Bella, you know, there's the drama of what's going on with Ellie and Joel, which we as the audience doesn't know.

Right. The town doesn't know. Everyone's trying to figure out this is also just an incredibly funny episode. Very well. And Bella's comedic timing is just, I mean, like, you know, the Dina stuff is great. Dina's really funny. Jesse's funny. But, like, Ellie's, like, sports.

smart, like, what the hell, man? Like, you know, just like all of her, all of that stuff is like really good. Like, you know you're only four years older than us, right? Like, that's just like smart ass energy. Yeah. Really, really, really great. I enjoyed that. And Deena, too, she's like, cutting off Jesse and just runs through like all of the things he was about to say.

Well, yeah, and that's why they're like a perfectly match bear. They're just like old sassy, snarky, saucy. Um, okay. Mallory Rubin. Yes. Sheen was Enthusiast. Mm-hmm. Did you write down something about the Knights Watch in your notes when you see

this group go out through the gate into the land of always winter. It always just gives me that little feeling in my chest, you know. It's a wonderful thing. Yeah. It's a wonderful thing. And also everything's always fine when they go out beyond the wall. When they go out beyond the wall, it's always fine. Everything's absolutely fine.

We get the barbecue, the pun bonding. Then we get Green Place Market. So we should say so things in this episode, some of these things in the episode do not happen at all in the game. This Green Place Market look, the truck, the sun. signage, all that sort of stuff. The bear is a moose. Don't worry about it.

That's fine. You can't make a pun out of moose. But like, don't, don't worry about it. I'm going to get back to you next episode. I'm going to drag into Gmail.com. But, you know, climbing up the truck to get into the window. The clickers, like, the clicker and the stalker are different, but like this is, it is different. This is an interior.

Let's hunt some orc. you know, inside of a market moment inside of the game. And right down to our very good boy being the July employee of the month. And then, you know, that comes into play with a thing you need later to open a vault. So it's just all great. Ellie and Dina having their sort of silent, hilarious. I loved this. But silent conversation about like, yeah, yeah.

Yeah. So good. See, if you're not watching a video, you have no idea what we just did. Some great gestures that no one should ever freeze frame. So anyway, like, all of that is wonderful. We get the sense that Ellie is, you know, Dina's, like, it matches Ellie's energy, but Ellie is just a little bit more impulsive.

Yes. They're both on the front line because, like, Ellie's like, what, you want to let them do it? And he's like, fuck that, let's go in. But, like, Ellie's maybe a touch more reckless. She's like, two on one. Yeah. And Dina's like, wait a second.

What if we waited just literally two more seconds? Yeah. And then Ellie goes through the. floor and Dina's like, don't move in the tone of voice of someone who's like, I know you're going to, but could you try to not move while I figure out how to get to you, please? Has just not a part of her believes that Ellie will remain, where she said she was going to remain. I think on the comedy front, because you're right, it's a very funny episode. Tina and Ellie being like, well, there could be regular people in just to like get away from cat and go inside.

What if there's a toddler? What if there's a baby? Love these two. Okay. Absolutely love them. Horrifying thing that happens. We saw this in the trailer. Mallory clutched my arm when this happened when we saw it's the premiere.

The stalker. The skittering in the back three different times in this sequence. The hat trick of skitters. Terrible. You know what the single scariest thing was? Not just because of the alarm of like, okay, I would just be, I'm just, it's, I'm dead. I'm dead right away. When the stalker hid in what I think is like,

Like, what should have and would have back in the past been the underbelly refrigeration unit of what I think is a cheese display. Yeah. To befoul the sanctity of a grocery store cheese display. Shocking behavior. Before showing us that your tendrils and cheese goes so well. Mushers and cheese goes so well together. You brought me back. I did.

You brought me back. A cheesy mushroom me omelet. You brought me back. A cheesy mushroom me keesh. That sounds really good right now. We need eggs. Starving. Okay, so the stalker is horrifying.

This is a different kind of critter than anything we met in season one. Here is the technical definition of a stalker if one cares. Stockers are people who have been infected from somewhere between two weeks to a year. Per their name, they stalk and hide from prey in the dark and attack in opportune moments. Some also lash on two balls and allow the cordyceps to fester keeping the host alive until prey walks by, which point the stalker breaks free and attacks. Okay. Oh, man. Did you think this, I mean, maybe I'm just latching on to like, oh, you know, do you think this, this girl was designed at all to look like Ellie? It had not occurred to me. Yeah. But it's possible that I was just too distracted by the tendrils

coming out of the nose, which I was so horrified by. The pretty little, like, horn, antler crown that she's wearing of tendils. Listen, Ellie later is telling the council, like, Tommy's like, so you're saying it's smart. Like, well, it couldn't do math, but it did all the things we did. Wear that crown. You're a smart infected. Yeah. The crown up. Why not? Flex. I like it. Oh, my God. Absolutely horrifying. I found this to be so dimpling. Here's my, okay, I'm so glad you brought up the cheese cake. Here's my most disgusting moment. So Ellie gets bit. She's fine. We know she's fine. We think she's fine. I mean, I don't know. She's fine, right? Yeah. How many times has Ellie? Well, we missed a lot of year so we don't know. But Ellie had the original bite from the Riley Mall, the escapade,

the second arm bite with Joel and Tess at the museum. I was like, well, if it was going to be anyone. And now, I mean, this is like, I think often of Tess's counsel to Ellie, which was like, you're not immune from being ripped apart and would like Ellie to be a tad more careful. This is a lot of bites doing correct. For me, there's the bite and you see the bite and there's just like a little tendril, just like, worming around. around the bite wound. And that made me very deeply upset on like a profound, profound level. Ellie and Dina report to the council.

Dina lies and says she saw the same thing that Ellie did. And how does this council strike you in terms of functionality? Do you have any notes? I have some notes for the fine folks of Jackson, Wyoming, which is what the fuck are you doing? You've built this beautiful hub and actual civilization, and actual society, take this a little more seriously. I, too, would be excited to go to the New Year's dance.

I wouldn't. I would have stayed home. No, you would have come. If everyone in town is going and there's no door dash. Is there someone there I'm trying to fuck? What if I'm like, Mallory, will you come to the dance and hang out with me? I would go if you asked me, but I would definitely be in the Ellie, Jesse. I'm standing on the side.

No, you're not them. I am not dancing. You're Gail. Yeah, we're like even further in a corner. Sitting with my whiskey tumbler. Watching. Perhaps Catherine O'Hara was not even on set when they shot this. Is how that's, is that how that struck me?

Yes. You're right. You're right. Yes, I have had my herbal tea and now I have my whiskey. That great call. Maria's like, Dina clearly lying, but I believe what Ellie says. Also, I've had this feeling. One of the members of the council who has clearly been into farmer maggots crop

slash Eugene's weed palace crop is just quoting Lily Tomlin honestly great stuff Generally one of the I really hope we have I hope that Mason and Druckman talk about this on the official podcast They have a lot to get to but if they could address the

Lily Tomlin quote I would really appreciate it Wild stuff incredible moment But like Maria's like I've had a feeling And Tommy's like yeah Someone's like what about the six by the It's not a hoard I just want Tommy to be taken this a little more seriously because there are a number of an infected behaving differently

should scare the shit out of them. You delay New Year's. You either skip it or you delay it. What do you do instead? You go figure out how to make sure you don't die. How these stalkers don't kill you. Also, someone while you're at, take a fucking look. Bring your sparklers or whatever for illumination in the roots of the pipe. Oh my God. Okay. Would you and Joel have gone in there? Yeah, but it's different. Why is it different, Maria being like, yeah, why? Great stuff. Great stuff. Love it. Okay. At long last. Us. The real us. Oh, man. This is us. This is Ellie and Joel. As you mentioned, when Ellie comes to Jackson for the first time, she finds this diary and she's like, what the shit is this?

Is this what you thought about? Is this all you had to worry about boys movies deciding which shirt goes with which skirt? But he's, Here's Ellie. Journaling about a crush. I loved this. Don't fuck it up. We see this journal, not in this moment in the game, but a little bit later.

And it's a little different, but that don't fuck it up, don't fuck it up is part of that journal. That is eternally true for Ellie in the game and Ellie in the show. Don't fuck it up. Dina is your best friend. Ellie's greatest fear is being alone, right?

And she is isolated from Joel right now. She's inside the community, but not really. And Dina is like definitely, like Dina and Tommy, I would say, are like her strongest lifelines. And if she... And we also know that like, I mean, as we'll find out from Seth, Jackson is not entirely chill with gay people.

And we had that line from Dina when she was the other one. Why were you going to take Kat did the other one? So not a lot of openly gay people in the community. That's what I was going to say. I was going to raise poor Kat. And I would just say that I thought that line was really funny. And it is like definitely something that is true for queer people being like, hey, I know you and I know one other gay people.

Should you date? Is that a thing that should happen? Like, I loved that line. But yeah, there's not a ton of out people. So Ellie is in a space where she feels like she has to suppress these feelings. And even though Dina and, you know, Dina is given her a lot of signals at the dance. Right. And has to, like, be the one to take the action because Ellie's like, surely not.

Right. Yeah. Surely she shouldn't, she can't mean this. Right. And even before that on the ride, like, what's going on with you and Jesse? you guys will be back together in no time telling Jesse you'll be back together in no time Jesse's like the one who's like I don't think so I don't think so like she's into you

you just haven't allowed yourself to realize it yeah I don't think so yeah yeah pretty cool of Jesse by the way okay so I love Jesse here comes Joel dude he picks up the guitar he runs his hand lovingly over the moth insignia and says he'll fix the strings Joel loves to be in fix it provider mode as we already mentioned and then they love how he were like rush he's like okay I'll fix the strings You didn't want me to turn the light on, but you'll have it tomorrow. Yeah.

Oh, man. Fixing things, paying attention to things. This is how we show our love, Mallory. But, like, we had multiple moments in season one where Joel talked about wanting to be a singer. Yeah. When I was a kid, I wanted to be a singer is what he says in episode six, and Ellie's kind of laughing at him. And she's like, you got to sing something now. He's like, no, blah, blah.

And then in episode nine, they see this guitar in the RV. And he said it was all smashed up, but got me thinking maybe I should find one. I haven't played in forever. In fact, I was thinking maybe I could teach you. I bet you'd be great at it. Do you want to learn how to play the guitar? Ellie? She's not the eldest on this conversation.

She goes, oh, yeah, that'd be great. Yep. And presumably, you know, he's like, he's taught her something at some point. Yeah, you've been playing? Yeah. The strings being shot means. they've been used or sometimes neglect can make the strings

lose their mojo. Oh, man. This is tough. This is, but not the hardest thing we see because we're, we've still got a little ways to go. We're ringing in 2020

New Year with Britney and the Jug Boys. Okay. Yeah. Do you want to mention the premiere after party? Yeah, we got to see them perform. We got to see them perform. They did a little setup of the stage with the lights and everything.

We were making a few rounds looking for mushroom cuisine, and then we settled in to watch the concert. Yeah, that's great. That's really fun. No past mushroom hors d'oeuvres that we could see at them. Shocking stuff. Absolutely shocking.

Some delicious looking, like cheesy pasta, though. Oh, thank you, HBO. It was a great party. But we were sure there would be mushrooms. You know what I saw, like, we, you know, we talked to a couple people, but you know who I saw that I didn't, like, elbow you or, like, say anything about it. Whatever, Shannon Woodward, who voiced Indiana in the game was sort of instrumental for connecting Craig Mazin, with Neil Druckman for this being on HBO.

I don't know for sure, but the fact that, like, um, Hallie, who we mentioned was the co-writer of The Lastos Part 2 was a Westworld, and Shannon Woodward was on Westworld, so I don't know if that's how, like,

Shannon got into, like, voicing Dina in the first place through Hallie or something like that, but I was like, oh, Shannon Woodward, you're kind of the reason why we're here. And I didn't say anything to her, but I was just like, there she goes. It's Shannon Woodward.

You were rocking out to the apocalyptic bluegrass. probably sounds right that's about right oh man Ellie the smitten kitten that she is is watching Dina

who's both an absolutely undeniable bright spark and a bit of a hot mess as she you know I loved everything about this this is such it is so hard to pull off

like everyone everyone she's like the jewel of Jackson, Dina, which is a different characterization, I would say

again, I'm not like all the way through the game, but like, Dina, the Dina that we spend time with in the game thus far from what I've seen is like, in the community, is like, but it's not this. This is like a different level of like effervescence and joievee and joy

and just sort of like, I'm just going to live. That is who this Dina is. Yeah. I just love it. it. I loved it too. I loved I loved Jesse coming over. I loved that look of longing, the yearning on Ellie's face watching

that like appreciation for the way that Dina carries herself and just like is. I did also have a like, I don't know what's wrong with me. I had to like, are we sure the apocalypse is bad moment watching this? Because like, I don't know. There's something about stripping away. It's bad. We're dead on day one. So whatever this news stripped down

delightful life is? I have my wax trucker. I could definitely live off of just jerky for for sure, for a really long time. We're dying so quickly. Are you kidding me? I know for sure I'd be the first eliminated on Survivor because I can't go without food. You would have eaten a baked good on day one. I know you would have. You would have eaten a raisin cookie. Well, that's true. Yeah. I don't even make, you're right. I don't make it to the apocalypse because I consumed. My diet is basically just exclusively the infected flower. You're right. You're right. But like when Dea's like, you know, how bad do I smell when they start dancing?

And she's like, you're so drunk. And she's like, no, I'm high. It's just like. It's delightful. Like, I don't know. The stripping away of all the other stuff. Horror everywhere, of course, loss. It's unrelenting.

Yeah. The fireworks. They're fireworking, you know? Yeah. Everyone with their sparklers and their, their, their happy New Year's and their glasses of booze and their good cheer, like for a minute here was just really. really, it was lovely. This is one of my favorite Craig Mason quotes from season one, the season one podcast.

In this world, the happiest moments are interrupted by the worst moments. Yeah, wow. Yeah. So, Dina and Ellie have this little smoocheroo here. It's very sexy. The, like, the whispering back and forth is very, like, teen. Like, this might as well be, like, freaking Dawson's Creek as far as I'm concerned. Totally.

Except when Dina says, I think they should be terrified of you. I feel like there's a double meaning in that. You know what I mean? Like, I think there are levels to that. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. You're a romantic sexual threat inside of this room, but also... You're scary. You're scary.

Yeah. I think back all the time to the way that Mason described what was happening with Ellie when she watched Joel Pummel, Lee, the Fedra. Yeah. And, like, the idea of how similar they are and the things that drew them to each other ultimately and, like, how much of that is still in Ellie. Like, even in this episode when she's arguing with Tommy about... Gatewatch versus patrol. It's like, if we're the same person, you know you're not going to win this argument.

But then what are the key differences and then what does that mean? All of that is so interesting. I love that observation. The dance, I was in tears watching this for the first time, like when we were watching this at the premiere, I just thought this was, again, when the show with all of the horror

and the doom and the apocalyptic stakes around them could just for a minute give you something that is so familiar. and like just life, right? And like, no matter what is happening and how dire and severe it is, like the idea that life could find a way to go on for just a second, a heartbeat, sway, a kiss.

Finds a way. It's just like I was, and also they did it again. Like, we were so struck by this with Ellie and Riley and capturing that, like, this is just like that teenage, like, lust and yearning and love and, like, draw. And specifically, I thought the most striking moment was when Dina kind of brought Ellie close and wrapped her up. And that look on Ellie's face, what a performance from Bella Ramsey, that look of like, wait, this thing that I want so badly, is this about to happen?

Yeah. Like, is this about to happen? I want this so badly. Can I allow myself to actually believe that this is real? I just thought this was great. Also, on my latest watchthrough of this episode, and I've watched it several times now, we got to that song, I was like, wait, do I know this song? And I think it's just that I've seen the watch that scene to it. It's a jam!

I don't think Britney and the Jug Boys, this is a real band, this is a band that they've used, not that Britney and the Jug Boys is not their name, but this is a real band. Great name. And they've used their music in the game as well. But yeah, the song is beautiful. Yeah.

Get the smooch. And then here comes Seth. Fuck this guy. The bigot and Joel, the unwanted protector. What's more devastating? Seth's like horrifying, bigotting, bigoted words or Ellie's response to Joel.

What is, the way Joel said, are you okay? Are you okay? Yeah. Like the thickness in his voice. And then Ellie just like, what is wrong with you? I don't need your fucking help. If Ellie doesn't need Joel's help. The way he just goes.

Yeah. Okay. Like, what does he have then? Yeah. That his entire life is oriented around that idea of need. This was so fucking crushing. And like for Joel, you know, love protection, that impulse, that need, more than an impulse, the need, as you've said. Compulsion.

Compulsion. Yes. To save, protect, provide inextricable from violence. Pushing somebody over on a dance floor is not the same as slaughtering somebody who has the ability to find a cure and everyone around them at St. Mary's in Salt Lake City. But like, it comes from the same place. Yeah. What does Ellie know? When did she know it?

We don't know. But a very unhapable. We get, we get, go directly from what's wrong with you, Joel looking very sad as he sort of like takes that in, absorbs it. We get interstitials of like, you know, sparklers, beverageinos, like, good cheer, whatever. Yeah. And then we cut to Joel on the porch. Okay, I can't handle it. Hears in his eyes as he's noodling.

He's noodling on the guitar and then he stops. Drumming it. And then she's there. And she looks at him. And his face is just a portrait of devastation. And then she walks away. I have never, I was trying to think, like, have I ever wanted two people to just, like, walk toward each other more? Like, I just.

The tears held back in his eyes, not, like, streaming down his face, but just, like, there, that hurt, that bright spark of hurt. Okay. And then we get the threats approaching from all sides. The yearning tendrils are coming through the pipe, and Abby and her pals are stomping up. up thin through the snow, setting their sights on. Looking out at that little glistening beacon of light. What an episode. We're back.

Okay. Three more sections before we go. We're going to hit Easter eggs. We're going to do a mushroom recipe. Yeah, great. And then we're going to get to the spoilers. Okay, so you've got so much space to get out of here if you want to. Okay.

I'm going to call it this a mushroom kees or an omelet if you prefer. it's Easter eggs. A reminder that Craig and Neil love to not only call things Easter eggs, but prester eggs, these like things that they're planting to pay off down the road, like Mortal Kombat and, you know, like stuff like that. Okay. Anything you want to mention specifically? We already hit on a lot of the ones that I love. The Curtis and Viper mentions from Dina and Jesse.

Of course, we can think back to Sarah getting the Curtis and Viper 2 DVD for Joel's birthday from the Adlers. thing they watched together. Really, really heart-wrenching stuff. I did genuinely really love getting to see the employee of the month pup. That was great at the grocery store.

I think the camera pan down to the bud light bottle given the recurring centrality of grabbing a bottle or a brick to toss. In the show. In the game. That was just a fun little wink there to kind of the game mechanics and game tactics. I liked that.

So those were some of my favorites. And again, the nod to Eugene's weed prowess, which is crucial. What about you? Any faves? I don't think I have anything that sticks out beyond just like all the set deck in her room, the posters. Yeah. Yeah. All good.

Should it kept the boots with the glance down to the converse, at least converse. It's 374 miles to Seattle, which is where Abby and her pals said they were going. Right. So we get a, we get a like roadside. and how many miles of Seattle. This is how you know that I watched too much college football because I was really zoned in on Boise. Okay.

And I was like, how's the blue turf doing this far into the apocalypse? I need to know. I don't know what that means. Is that the Astro Turf that they put on the Iowa State. Boise State Broncos play on an infamous blue turf. Is it like really tough? I'd say all of the, the quality of all of the modern turf has improved for the knees, but it's still not as good for any of the players.

What was the controversy around like tough? Was it, was it the like the women's soccer team has to play on harder astrochurch than the men? Okay, that's what it was. Maria would not her head and agree. Okay, so spores galore. Yeah. This is what I'm calling our mushroom recipe thunderbam. Yes, I'm thrilled.

Hobbes and Dragons at Gmail.com. Send me your mushroom recipes. Yeah. Last time we did this, a publishing company sent me a mushroom recipe book. Thanks inside editions. Okay. It's a great book. Great recipes in it.

Okay. Our listener Mikhail, who is one of our top-tier e-mailers, by the way, sent in this recipe for Hong Kong curry. This sounds delicious. From the YouTube channel is Young Cooking, Young spelled Y-E-U-N-G. And it's a bunch of baby king oysters. And I definitely watched this video. It's like a pretty simple recipe, actually. I was like, I can do this.

And like the first two, it's like less than 10, it's like 10 minutes. The first two minutes are just cutting aromatic. I was like, I can cut aromatics in my sleep. You want me to dice some ginger? Yeah, you're ready. I will mince that ginger, actually. Oh, my God. You want me to dice an onion?

I can do it. But then the oysters go in, the potatoes go in, the hoison goes in. It looked scrumptious. Okay, scrumptious. I didn't get to try it, but it looks scrumptious. Will you be making this? I think so. I just need to get back to my own kitchen, which is like a week and a half from now.

Gigantic test kitchen here. I mean, Charles is, I guess, is making good. of it today. Okay. Now. That sounds fucking yummy. Is the time on Shraqis when we talk about spoilers. A fungus among us is what I'm calling the spoiler section. Yeah.

Bye. Just like let's be, let's just hammer this. If you have played the game or you don't care, join us. If you do not want to hear about things that are going to happen, big things that are going to happen, things that are going to happen, don't listen past this point. You're only going to miss a few minutes. You'll hear us talk about it all eventually.

It is the spoiler time where we talk about things that have not yet happened in the show that are coming in the game. Bye. Or say. Wow, you did a real angel devil thing right there. Goodness. Okay. Yeah. Are you for real gone?

Did you leave? Did you leave? Okay. So here's the thing that anyone who's played the game knows. And a lot of people already know just because they Googled it and they were like, oh, no. this is a big thing that's been looming over Season 2 of The Last of Us is the knowledge that very early in the game

Are you gone yet? Teeny! Very early in the game. Joel, who I don't know if you know is played by Pedro Pescal dies brutally at Abby's hand

while Ellie watches. I played this. You texted us. I'll talk about my experience playing it more when we get to whenever this happens in the show, but I, I just can't believe you got this far without knowing this. I know. She was unspoiled. I was not unspoiled. This just happened to me. My husband was not unspiled, so he was filming me. I was really on the other side of the, yeah, the wedding style. Wow. I haven't seen that footage. No, I'll send it to you guys. I'll send it to you guys. I have some. Oh, put it on the

social when you can. Real jams coming. Okay. I look insane in all of them, but. Beautiful. Okay. So we don't know when this is going to happen in the show. No, we have no idea. We don't know if this is why we started like a little day earlier in the timeline is to give us more time with Joel, question mark. But it could be as early as episode two. We don't know.

A lot of people were wondering who was going to happen in episode one. Yeah. Yeah. Do you think there's a chance that they make a drastic timing change here and that they save it? for like way later and that that has something to do with the split nature of the seasons or anything like that or like seven episode season yeah i think by midway they have to have done it and i think so too and that's only like three episodes right because it's so short i i would be really surprised if if this isn't in the second episode but like i i think that the because of the wall up the way it hits you it's

so early in the game. It's so fucking early in the game. And for that regret and that despair to carry Ellie forward on the rest of her journey, for us to be like so shocked, all in order to, there's so much that's tied up and why this is like considered one of the most monumental things that's like ever happened in gaming. Like it just feels like you kind of have to protect that. You play as Joel. Yes. For almost all of the, you play as Sarah a little bit, Ellie a little bit in the first game, but you are mostly Joel. Yes. So they took Joel, the main character from The Last of Us, and they were like, bye.

Yeah. Okay. So from a business perspective, if you're HBO. Of course. And you have The Mandalorian, aka Reed Richards, in your prestige Sunday night TV show, you're going to want to keep him there. So that's the other question of like, how long can they get away with keeping him there? or are they going to supplement it with flashbacks.

Flashbacks, The Lour. There's a key scene inside this part of the gameplay where Joel comes in, it's earlier in the timeline, but he comes in and he plays fucking future days on the guitar for Ellie. I wet, like a baby. You get to like do the chords yourself. You get to play it, right?

So that's missing here. Yeah. We believe it has to be. Has to be a flashback. It just has to be. And there are shots in the trailer of them sitting next to each other guitar in hand. feels like the lesson is coming and the singing would be a part of the lesson.

So the mystery of like what happened to cause this rift between Ellie and Joel can be in spalled via flashbacks. Yes. You know? Yeah. And like we, I mean, even we clocked this like, even just talking about the trailers, like you're always on hair watch in a way that I really just respect, admire, cherish value. And like, you're like, boy, does Joel's hair look like really different in a lot of these scenes?

Darker and shorter. So that's those presumably are earlier in the timeline and thus would be delivered to a Flashback? Let's talk about this live on mic. Let's do it. This is a real, I didn't prep you for this. It's a real Van Leithen Maverick moment, okay?

Exciting, yeah. You told me that you were like at the premiere, because it doesn't happen the first episode. We saw the first episode of the premiere. Yes. You were like, after the premiere, I was wondering. Yes. Was it because they showed us of this season on The Last of Us trailer

and there were like two shots of Joel, or did I say something? Did I say something that tipped anything? I tried so hard not to. It was so I did not know when I had not had it spoiled. The number of times this week where my husband Adam has been like much like you, how did you manage to avoid? He was like, I never mentioned it just in case, but I assumed that you knew. A lot of it was just like my basically like my pool of candidates had shrunk for just like

what could Abby have done that made her, that made people talk about her this way. That was just a big thing. To me, there are only a few possible things that a character could do. This was one of those things, but not the only thing I considered. That was one thing. I want to apologize for saying this to, and Steve Allman, our beautiful producer, is going to feel really guilty. You don't have to.

But when I was, it's fine. But when I was mentioning, like, my goal was really to play the whole game before the season. And we were talking and, like, Arjun and Steve were like, well, it would be really fun to, like, film you playing. and we can make content out of it. And then I was like, I would love to actually, but like, as long as we could edit down, how embarrassing my, my, my, my, um, gameplay is.

But I was like, it just feels like a really, like, it's really long time to do that, to sit at the office and do that versus, like, doing it in my pajamas without a bra on under a fleece blanket at night with my cat on my lap, my preferred method for playing. And Steve Pleasant was like, it's okay, I only needed you for a couple hours.

And I was like, fuck. So like, this sense that whatever it was was, early too, and then that paired with like the kind of absence of longer-haired grade Joel from the trailer. I was like, and obviously also the other thing is just in the episode, like Abby is just like, I want to kill him slowly. Now, I will say, that did not seal it for me in any way because Therratis in one, a number of characters are trying to kill Joel. All the time people are trying to kill Joel, right? Constantly. People try to kill Joel all the time.

People try to kill Joel, Henry. They try to kill Joel all the time. Our guy had a fucking baseball bat embedded in his gut. It's not like apparel is a new thing, but just as like kind of the opening note, I was like, no, that's concerning. There's also, there's the moment inside of this episode where like Benji gives him little fake guns.

And he was like, you got me, you got me. You know, there's that moment. But yeah, like, you know, so my suspicion and concern had mounted, but I did not know and like watching it. And again, it's just so early. It's just so soon. was a wallup. Like, it's, I'm, my, we'll talk about this when we cover it whenever it does happen,

but it's a short list for me of things that compare in terms of, like, that feeling you have after a character dies. I mean, let's save it. We'll save it. We'll save it to talk about it. But the way it's done in the game is, yeah, definitely we're talking about. Okay. Um, what else I'm saying?

My other, like, guess for just like the next episode. Oh, no. It's just like that moment when Jesse at the, um, at the dance is like, you know, remember early night, like, you guys have Petrieve. tomorrow. Now they have patrol all the time, so maybe that's nothing, but it felt like, okay, everyone's got to kind of get out into the snow. Oh, patrol tomorrow, time to die. Tears in the rain, time to die. And like, not saying anything to each other. And like, what is the last thing Ellie ever says to Joel is like, what's wrong with you? What's wrong with you? I don't need your help.

Yeah. I might like never recover from that. If this is the last, like, they do make eye contact And a communication of some sort is made. You know, she's visibly destroyed seeing how, anyway, we'll talk about that later. Maybe he'll bring the fixed guitar in the morning. He'll play future days. They'll go get some cheesy mushroomy toast and everything will be fine. Could that happen? Sure.

Say too. The last toast. Is this the last of Dolanelli? Have we seen their last scene together? Oh, my God. It feels like maybe. If that's the case, and I, and perversely as, as, you know, tragic as it would be, I hope it is because that, it's just, there's something there that's really bold that I think is important to preserve.

I am hoping then for a shit, fuckload ton of flashbacks. Is that an official? Unit of measurement. I know I've said before that I'm not a scientist. Okay. But I do believe that that is an official unit of measurement. Okay. Anything else I want to say?

Oh, any further thoughts on the differences between knowing Abby's mission and motivation early versus how it's rolled out in the game? I don't know. I mean, I guess just like giving us that really human connection, especially because Joel's decisions are driven by family, specifically. Like, I can't lose somebody I love. Well, if Abby did lose somebody she loves, then what does that mean? And, like, you know, who, like the fireflies and that, again, the tears in her eyes, like, there's a personal quality of that morning that just feels really palpable there. And like, as a parallel, well, what am I driven to do if I have lost someone who I really cared about? What are you

driven to do to avoid that kind of outcome is interesting. But yeah, I don't know. What about you anything else? I mean, more than anything else, knowing that, you'll help me kill him slowly, whatever, knowing that, all of that, it's the Caitlin Deaver casting more than anything else, which is, you know, to say nothing of the talented actors. who voices Abby in the game. It's not about that, but it's just about like Caitlin Deaver is, I'm just already programmed to empathize with her from years of exposure. Absolutely. We got to the little like the handhold moment with Owen and Owen and Abbey. And I'm curious, like, you know, it's the sense early in the game that they had a romantic history. And then at that point,

Owen is with Mel and got Mel pregnant and desire to not jeopardize that and protect that is driving some of his decisions. So, like, I'm curious if we have not spent any time with them other than some foot crunches on snow in the present timeline. So we don't know. I'm curious to see if that's, if that's all the same. Yeah. Well, what were they doing the last five years, et cetera, et cetera. Okay. Yeah. A couple other things before we go. They mentioned Isaac on the Seattle front. So that's the Jeffrey Wright character. So that's exciting. Right, right. We're going to Seattle multiple times over. How Tommy as a dad might change the stakes for him in the game. So this is something that we were discussing before we started

recording this idea that like the game opens with Joel telling Tommy everything about what he did. Yes. And they changed that slightly inside of this episode and that it's like it's Joel talking to Gail and he does not tell her what he does. But he does say that line. I saved her. But he doesn't give the specifics.

Tell me what you were you and Steve were talking about before we started recording about why you feel like Tommy can't know inside of this game version. Yeah. So Steve and I, I think slightly. disagreed on this and I think it's an interesting I'll be fascinated and I'm sure they can make it work either way but when it didn't happen in the show I was like yeah of course

now maybe it did and we'll see it in a flashback and Tommy does in fact know but assuming that he doesn't and that that's actually a change they've made it feels to me like it's a change they've made because in the show as you mentioned earlier Tommy has a kid and so like when they're when the game opens with that conversation

between Joel and Tommy and then they ride toward Jackson through the beautiful opening credits and they get to the gate and it opens and they walk back in and like Tommy's like I wouldn't have done I can't say I would have done anything different, right?

But that we could still hear Tommy say because he would do it for his kid. Right. But what does it mean that Joel did it at the expense of his kid? Of Benji. Yeah. Benji's future.

Joel doomed a world that Tommy was bringing a kid into and I don't know that he can forgive and understand that the way the game Tommy could. So, we'll see. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know how it's all going to roll out in the show. I don't know how much it didn't, like,

because I'm only like, I don't know, a couple hours into my 15 and a half hour watch project. But like, but I don't know how that, how important it is that Tommy knows. Right. Well, yeah, maybe either. When we come back next time, we will know because we will have done all of our homework.

Just thinking about like the possible, like if Joel has, if he didn't tell Tommy in show land, and if he If he hasn't told anyone, Yeah. What would that, to not have any release? Yeah. Potentially? Like to not have told anyone would be, boy, that would be a heavy thing to carry.

I don't know that you could carry that. I think he would have to tell someone at some point, right? So then who would that be? Intriguing. I don't think there's any other options. It's either Tommy or nothing, I think. Who else is he talking to? Okay, we did it.

We did it. that was a lot to get into, I think, future episodes might be a little switcher than that. Promises, promises from House of Arr, but like... Maybe not all of them, but some of them will be. Some of them definitely will be. Yeah, yeah. Thank you, too. Yes.

Wow. Quote. Devented. Don Richter. Rest up, my guy. Yeah. John. Arjina Wriga pal.

Also. Also rest up. How sick? Rest up. Jami a dinner on? Not sick as far as I know. and well as far as we know. And Stephen Alman, who just celebrated a birthday. Happy birthday, Steve. Happy birthday, Steve. Is the best. Remember, the fungus loves too.

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