House of R - The Most Essential Ahsoka Tano Moments to Revisit Ahead of the 'Ahsoka' Series

Episode Date: August 21, 2023

Mal and Jo won't leave you! Not this time! Because they're here with their first episode on the new feed for 'House of R,' exploring the moments from Ahsoka Tano's deep 'Star Wars' canon that you most need to know about before the two-part premiere of the newest Disney+ live-action 'Star Wars' show. Diving into 'The Clone Wars,' 'Rebels,' 'Tales of the Jedi,' 'The Mandalorian,' and beyond, they highlight the losses, duels, and decisions that have most substantially shaped the character, from her days as Anakin Skywalker's Padawan to her pursuit of Grand Admiral Thrawn. Hosts: Mallory Rubin and Joanna Robinson Associate Producer: Carlos Chiriboga Additional Production: Arjuna Ramgopal Social: Jomi Adeniran Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Greetings. And welcome to House of Ar, a Ringerverse podcast here on the Ringer Podcast Network. I'm Mallory Rubin, and it is my absolute pleasure to, invite you not only to Malacore, but to this new House of our podcast feed, where I am joined now and always. By my House of our working title, permanent title. Permanent title! Co-host, fresh off a duel with mall who told her she has Kenobi's arrogance. It's Joanna Robinson.

I don't even know what to say. I'm so excited to be here. I know. Just out of frame are my, like, we just recently acquired new lightsabers, Mallory Rubin. It's true. Did we not together? Yes. Friendship sabers.

Friendship sabers. We were lucky enough to be at ILM a couple days ago. Malory Rubin won a raffle because she's the luckiest duck alive. and they gave her not one but two sabers because So Katano. That's right. Carries two sabers. We decided to share custody of these sabers. So Mallor's going to have one.

I'm going to have another. It's going to be like a best friend necklace, but with lightsabers. I love it. Perfect. What a dream to start our house of our feed with new lightsabers. I know. The shared sabers call to us as our hearts call to each other as a Kyber crystal calls to a youngling looking to forge a blade. It all fits. It all tracks.

And then while riding the BART, the Bay Area Rapid Transit later, while someone was like probably making some very strange noise, I was like, does that make us a, are we a force dyad, Mallory? I mean, it was your choice within the first five minutes of our new feed launch to invoke Rise of Skywalker. Your choice. Some things about Rice of Skywalker are bad. All right. What are we here today today, Molly. Today, Joanna, we are here with the second part. of our Asoka preview coverage.

We are so excited for the new series that is coming to Disney Plus this Tuesday, now 6 p.m. Pacific instead of the old midnight slot. I guess the guys are going to have to change their name to the 6 p.m. boys. We'll workshop it, you know? Poo-poo-poo. And if you haven't caught up on part one yet,

last week, over on the Ring ofverse Feed, we presented a watch list of the one. And yes, there's a small and, and then an increasingly prominent asterisk next to one because every, we had an extra credit smuggle fest and then Asoka herself had more than one. But in theory, one episode that you need to watch from the prior canon to help you understand

the essence of the characters who are about to be central in the new show. Today is part two of our primer. We are focusing on Asoka today. We are here. This is one of our favorite traditions heading into a new release with the top moments pod, the seven most essential moments

to revisit in Asoka's canon before the new series. We do not know what is on the other person's list. We are going to count down from seven to one. If we have the same moment,

we will wait until the higher of the two spots to discuss it. And we feel thrilled and overjoyed to look back on some of our favorite bits of Star Wars canon and talk about how that might inform what will hopefully be another wonderful stretch of Star Wars storytelling.

So that's what we're doing today. Joanna, people who are listening to this are in theory already aware of this, but just to be clear, where can people find our discussion of Asoka? Listen, for future deep dives into Asoka, which you're going to want to want from both of us, you're going to have to be on the house of our feed

because that's where it's going to live our own feed. Baby, so you want to follow the podcast. You know, follow Ringervaverse on socials. We're still part of the Ringerva's family. Yes. We will still be doing House of Midnights. I just did one with Van and Jomey about Blue Beetle on Friday. So we are still like all part of the family.

But if you want the Mal and Joanna experience, it is House of Our or it is nothing unless it's occasionally prestige. But mostly it's House of Our. So yeah, follow us. Please, please, please. Follow us over here. We don't want to, don't want you to miss a thing in the words. of Aerosmith. Exactly.

And we're going to be here twice a week. Twice a week. Rate and review. Give us five star rating. Please. Give us the five star ratings. Do it. We would really appreciate it.

Spotify or Apple or any pod player. Give us those five star ratings. It's really helpful. It would mean a lot. Thank you so much. Hit the follow button. Tell your friends. Tell your fellow rebels.

Spread the word. We're like brand new, newly born, a newly born little loath kitten with like shaky legs. And we need a little. support as we get off the ground with the new feet. So yeah. Need a little, a little nozzle, a little cheek rub,

a little scratch. Yeah, little scritches in the form of five-star reviews. Thanks so much. Purring into the mics, ready to pod twice a week. Other programming reminders, because the wider Ringervverse Galaxy is always popping.

Button mash. Game swap with Ben and Jess coming for you today. If you're listening to this on the House of Our Feet on Monday, go pop over to Ringervverse. You'll have a new button mash waiting for. you. And then on Wednesday, uh, the midnight boys.

Pugh, we'll be with you, as always, with their instant reaction to the two-part Osoka premiere. We will be back here on the House of our feed on Friday with our deep dive. Send your emails. Joe, where can, where can people send their emails?

It's, guess what? It's still hobbits and dragons at email.com. You got a very mysterious email today from a Harfoot account that I'm going to be questioning, trying to detect, be like Detective Canobi and figure out what's going on. But anyway, whoever you are, Hobbes and Dragons to Gmail.com, we would love to hear your Asoka thoughts, theories, questions, comments, concerns as we for the next few weeks, you know,

just hang out. It's been a little while. A minute. I mean, I guess Secret Invasion just happened, but did it. So, like, you know, it's been a minute since we've been hanging with the show week to week. So, you know, get it on the conversation. And we may read your email aloud on the show, Abitz and Dragons at gmail.com. Fantastic. Spoiler warning. It's the friendly neighborhood one, as always. Here it is.

Anything that has ever happened in Star Wars is on the time. Everything, everything always ever. Every single frame and word of Assocantano's canon is fair game today. And anything that isn't any way connected to that canon is fair game today. Clone Horse, Rebels, Tales of the Jedi, the eponymous Osoka novel, Mandalorian, the book of Boba Fett, I'm yon of it lost. The prequels, all of Star Wars may come up today. I cannot believe I rewatched a Book of Oba Fett episode for this podcast.

Here's the thing. That episode is amazing. We talked about it at the time, and every time I revisited it, I just forget which television show it is a part of, and it is one of the best hours of Star Wars TV in a television show in which it did not belong. Great stuff. What a time to be a Star Wars fan. Can I essay on the spoiler warning though? Yeah. Yeah. We have seen two episodes of Asoka. We are not spoiling those good dear Lord in heaven, no. Are we spoiling what we've seen? So everything that's ever existed before

Asoka episode, season one, episode one is what we're spoiling. Just wanted to put that up there. Exactly. Thank you for clarifying. Important to know. note in terms of the stuff that's already happened. Part of what we would love is to put in front of you some of these animated episodes you may not have seen, some of these stories you may not have read yet. If you haven't, don't let the fact that we were talking about the plot points dissuade you from checking them out. They are wonderful and highly worth your time.

Also, part of the point of this pot is to get you ready for the news show. And that is why we will be talking about everything that happens in the prior slices of canon in question. Okay. anything else about the rules or the nature of the countdown that we need to highlight, Joe. Secret lists, descending order. Seven moments. Seven moments.

Overlaps, go higher. Smugglers are allowed. How many overlapping items do you think we'll have? What is your prediction? Will we have identical lists and identical orders? Will there be nary a shared moment in sight, something in between? What are you anticipating? And did that sense of what might await in any way influence your list duration?

What was your process? What was your approach generally? I'm so glad you asked about my process. Thank you. Take us into your process. Yeah, let me take you inside of the, you know, anyway, there are things that I knew for certain you would have on here. Uh-huh. Yeah. Like seven things you knew for certain I'd have on my list of seven top moments? No, I would say I could probably accurately predict five is what I would guess, thereabouts. But there's been like a bunch of new Asoka Canaan since the last time you did something like this. So, you know, I think I have a pretty good sense.

So I didn't want to overlap everywhere. So I tried to, you know, think a little sideways on some of these. But then some of them I was just sort of like, well, this is too important for me to pretend that it doesn't belong on my list. So those are there. So I would say at least two, I am so certain you have on your list, if not more. Yeah, it's been really fun to dive into this. I also tried to sort of, I went through Asoka as a character and tried to pull out the aspects that I made sure I wanted to highlight. I have sort of like thematic aspects for each of my points.

So, and then these are like the points, the moments are like the supporting evidence for this aspect of her character. So that's part of my process. What was your process, Mallory Rubin? The second thing you said, quite similar actually, in terms of the, okay, are these, like, could anyone who was going to tune in just say these are the seven mouths definitely going to have and should I let that sway me in a different direction? I did want to find balance, balance in the force between, you know, as you just alluded to, Jason and I did a SOCA character study episode as part of the Bidgester's Star Wars run years ago. And some of the stuff that we talked about in that episode remains as essential to under the show. understanding Asoka, as it was at the time, but also, as you noted, there has been a lot of new canon since Tales of the Jedi came out since. The seventh season of Clone Wars came out since that

episode. We've got two appearances by Asoka in live action and two different television shows since then. So we have a lot of new canon to chew on. And I also wanted to find a little bit of variance with the pod we just did. Because on the one hand, I think we picked the episodes that had to be on that list, but on the other hand, I didn't want to just run back all of that and then it's half the list. Though I will say I found an incredibly difficult not to do that. And I'm not sure I totally succeeded. The other thing is like, you know, we're deliberate in how we frame these preview pods, right? Like we say most essential moments for a reason. I think if we were just doing our favorite episodes or the ones that we think were the absolute in a vacuum best in

like most scintillating scenes, the list might be different, but trying to think about like what is the most essential history for this character heading into a series in which she is the center guides in a certain way. I love hearing you say that you looked at aspects of her character and tried to sync a theme for each pick because I did the same. I was rewatching the trailer, the first trailer, and was struck by the warrior, outcast, rebel Jedi framing. That would have been a good way to organize this.

That's not what I did. That thing put out. So here's what I did. I said, okay, I'm going to find a moment to pair with each of those. And then I'm going to come up with three additional attributes that I think signify something about Osoka. So I've got seven labels and seven moments to pair. And I wonder how many of the things we talk about will be the same parts of who she is

as a person. I bet you a lot of them. I'm really excited for this. I can say that I can quickly. on the fly rename three of my categories as Boyer Outcast and Rebel. I love it. Perfect. Perfect.

Yeah, they picked those labels for a reason, I think. You know, Ossoca contains multitudes. Should we start with our seventh moments? Let's do it. Okay, Joanna Robinson. I'm like, my heart is racing. I'm thrilled to be talking about this with you. I'm just so excited.

I just absolutely adore this character. I adore you. I'm so, so overjoyed to get to talk about Osoko with you. I just, I love it. I feel like I'm back next to you in the, in the theater, like, clenching your own your life, quivering in my seat as we watch the Osokal wordmark pop up in front of us. Okay, Joe, what is your seventh most essential Asokatano moment? My seventh essential Asokatana moment comes from Tales of the Jedi episode.

Episode 5, practice makes perfect. Do you have this on your list? I don't. Carlos, will you please play this clip? Well, you're waking up faster. This is ridiculous. The droids aren't half as good as Rex's men. That's the point.

Look, I know this is tough, but I want it to be difficult. This is about life and death. And as your master, I'm responsible for you. you. The best way I can protect you is to teach you how to protect yourself. If you can hold off Rex in the boys, you'll be ready for anything on the battlefield. Well, yeah, anything with a blaster, at least. So this, so Tales of the Jedi, if you haven't seen in our six shorty little animated episodes that came out three of which center on Asocotano. So you can blaze through her three episodes really quickly. If you want to, this is the second of three. And this one focuses on

basically Anakin comes in to watch his Padawan, Sokatano, train with some very familiar-looking little droids that are zapping at her with her lightsaber. And Yoda's there and Obi-1's there. And everyone's like, wow, she's so good at this. And Anakin's like, not, don't impress me much in the words of Shania Dwayne. And he walks out and Asoka's like, excuse me, master, why are you not impressed by me acing this fucking test? And he's like, those little bald droids, that's not.

not that's not a high enough test for you. I need a harder test for you. So later he brings her into, I don't know, it's like a hanger, and he has surrounded her by Rex, who we've spent a lot of time with, and a bunch of other clones. And she has to do the same test standing in the middle of a circle of a bunch of clones firing at her, a stunning, you know, a stun, but like still firing at her. And she gets knocked out and knocked out and knocked out. And I love this moment because she's like, excuse me.

No one else has to do this. Why do I have to do this? And then we get this lovely moment from Anakin where he's like, he's talking about how he wants her to be safe. No, he's not going to train her like everyone else trains their Padawan because she's, he's Padawan and he wants her to be safe. So this aspect that I want to sort of talk about really quickly is I think the introductory and chief and key aspect of Asuketano in the first place, which is Padawan,

apprentice, student. This is who she was for a long time at the beginning of her run. And just to think about the kind of master she had in Anakin Skywalker and the kind of lessons that she learned from him. At the end of practice makes perfect. There's instant payoff with something that we might talk about later on this list about how this helped her. But there's other moments. You know, I'm just going to smuggle in something from the season three episode of Citadel, one of the greatest exchanges of all time, where Soka, has smuggled herself onto a mission she was told not to come on.

And Anakin says, well, it gave you a specific order not to come. And she says, if there's one thing I've learned from you, Master, is that following direct orders isn't always the best way to solve a problem. And then Mallory's boyfriend, hot animated Obi-1 Kenobi says, I see Anakin's new teaching method is to do as I say, not as I do. So Asoka as a student, I love to think about all of her, moves that she makes in this show, in whatever we're going to see coming from her next, as forged by Anakin Skywalker, her master.

Amazing pick. I love that. I have, when I watched that episode, that short in Tales of the Jedi, I am always so struck by the lack of concussion protocol inside of the Jedi order. It is deeply distressing, deeply distressing. I have some notes for Anakin Skywalker, as I often do. But I love the way that that episode moves us so subtly through time to, like, reinforce what a constant that ritual was for them. All of a sudden, that Shoto Blade is in Asoka's hand.

She has her second saber now. The outfits are changing, et cetera, and to the point where you get to that moment with Rex and Asoka. And you know that they're walking out into the chaos and the wreckage of Order 66. and that that specific, the payoff of that training that she was never quite able to execute is survival in the most dire of straits and desperate of circumstances. Exactly when she needs it. And so he fulfilled his promise, even as he is like, though she doesn't know it, like fallen and betrayed and like, you know, part of the reason why Order 66 happens in the first place,

he is also the reason that she is able to protect herself through it. And that's beautiful and heartbreaking. And when you think of Tales of the Jedi, you know, it's like three 18-ish minutes stories. And so you're like, why these, like these very specific stories, these very specific moments in Asoka's life, what did they want to tell us with those moments? So, you know, the whole, the whole, all three of them or all six of them actually, because the Duker ones are great too, are worth watching. But that was the one I wanted to highlight. What's your- Yeah. Love that one.

Great one. What's your number seven? Mine is kind of connected to that. Great. This is my, what I am calling, Asoka the ally pick. Asoka the friend. Asoka the loyal person who will always be by your side. This is my pick for Asoka refusing to leave Rex during Order 66.

Do you have this? I do have it higher. Okay. Okay. Interesting. Okay. now I'm officially worried that I told you

before the pod that there was one thing from a stretch of episodes that I was worried we might not pick because we would each feel certain the other person had it and now I'm officially worried

if we both picked that. Okay. We'll talk about it when we talk about it. Okay. Okay. So you have that higher. We will circle back to Asoka and Rex and Order 66

a truly incredible stretch of season seven of all. A clone wars. That brings us to number six then. This comes from an episode you might have, but I don't know if you would have it for this. No, you probably, if you have it, you have it for this moment. Season 4, episode 13, Rebels, A World Between Worlds. Do you have? I have this higher. Okay. Great. Wow. Is it, how much over left do we have when we were like thinking we were, I was thinking it was so original?

All right. It's just we're left. I feel, but this is great. Yeah. It's beautiful. We're in sync. We're connected through the force and also, if we both have a moment, it just makes it even more essential as a most essential moment. Important. All right. What's your number six? I love it. Okay.

My number six is Asoka the warrior. And it is Asoka forging her new signature white lightsabers. Go for it. Okay. Carlos, can you play my clip? And then I will explain why you were hearing a clip that is not actually the same source material as where this moment comes from.

We're just listen to that. The life leaving the Inquisitor. Incredible scoring on that clip. So what you just heard is also from Tales of the Jedi. That is episode six, Resolve, which... daps, but also amends the events of E.K. Johnson's 2016 novel, Asoca, which you've heard us chat about a lot across our Star Wars pods,

and we'll be coming up a number of times as we break down the Asoka season. The broad strokes of the plot in the novel and the Tales of the Jedi short are similar. What state is Asoka in after Order 66, after the deaths of so many of her friends, Asoka going out into hiding, not living out in the open as a force user, working on a farm, right? And an encounter with an inquisitor, a Jedi hunter, who we have now seen across many different Star Wars properties, and the thing that you don't see in the episode resolve, in addition to many other things for the novel that you don't see in Resolve, including a wonderful character named Canaan,

who many fans were just despondent, not to see in the adapted version, is what happens after Asoka cuts down this Inquisitor. In the novel, this Inquisitor is the sixth brother. And Asoka takes... the crystals, the bled chiber crystals, befouled and corrupted and polluted by the dark side of the force

and purifies them. Now, there are a few different reasons. So, like, if you just want the gist of it, you can watch The Tales of the Jedi episode. I would really encourage people to read this novel. I think it is a, it's a great read. It's a fun read. It's an interesting Star Wars story, but it is a really, like, beautiful and often, I think, incredibly moving insight into the psyche of this character. and how she feels and how the nature of her connection to the force, like evolves over time.

When can she reach out and sense somebody she was close to? How does she feel in the moments when she can't? We also get some like really fun little insights for other characters like Obi-Wan, for example. So at the end of Resolve, Bail-Raganah is there and there is a pull. Bail is in the novel too. Again, there are some parallels. But the main thing I want to talk about is not something we see in Resolve. It's in the novel and it's the forging of the blades.

I like to think more broadly if we take a step back for a second from the novel about the way lightsaber lore has like overlapped with key moments and progressions in Asoka's character arc. And there are too many. We can probably do a whole episode of some point just on that, but like a snapshot of some of the key ones, you know, Asoka taking and embracing a second Chodo Blade, like her signature fighting style, trying to find. something during the height of the Clone Wars that felt right in her hands, that felt right for

her. Like we were just talking about this in our last episode, that idea from Hu Yang about like, feel, how does the force feel to you, right? Talking to Goonji in that episode, like, what is right for you and how we see that with Asoka? Asoka evolving, while still at the stretch of her story that she is a Paduan, she is still a learner, at the same time in tandem into, a teacher. Like one of the, I'll just spoil that one of the things that missed my list, and I was absolutely shocked missed my list, was the gathering arc from the Clone Wars. I don't have that on here. And I love that, not only because it's great lightsaber lore and mythology and because we know our guy David Tennan is going to be in the impending Asoka series, and this

is where we get to see him and Asoka interacting Clone Wars, but because we get to see Asoka as a teacher, as a guide to the younglings. Like when she opens that first episode of the gathering arc saying for a Jedi there is no greater challenge or honor meaning than going to seek your crystal and find the thing that calls to you like she is leading and I love that you opened with apprentice because like I was thinking about that a lot and prepping for this so much of what we talk about and what feels top of mind now is like the really grim dark bleak shit right everything that went wrong but there were good days before that that were filled with like training and learning and possibility and trying and striving.

And so how do you hold on to that when everything has turned? Thinking about Assoca leaving her blades when she left the order, then returning in season seven or, and we see this in the novel as well, getting them back with some modifications in season seven from Anakin, leaving, Asoka then leaving the blades after order 66 because in part she has to, right? Like there's the, I've got to fake my death practically. element of going into hiding. And then there's the, I no longer feel connected to what these things represented when they were in my hand part of it. One of the lines from the novel, I'll read now,

she thought about her master whom she could no longer sense and the other Jedi whose absence was like an open airlock in her lungs with determination she shut it. She stopped looking for Anakin through the connection they shared. Like she is not initially ready to join Bail Organo when he offers, right? She is defeated and lost and the difference between choosing to walk away, which will come up again later today in the pod without question, is something we talk a lot about with Asoka, and feeling like you have no choice but to go into the shadows because someone else has robbed you and the rest of the galaxy of this thing that was like always your tether, that is seismic, that distinction. So then when we get to watch her rise back up, not only,

not fueled by like the quest for revenge or desire for power, but in this stretch with the Sixth Brother and in the Tales of the Jedi modification, by a desire to protect and help those in need, which is like at the purest and best sense of it, the goal and mission of a Jedi, even if that character has said, I am no Jedi. Like when she feels the call of those crystals,

it just sends a chill down your spine as a person who, if you love Asoka and you're connected to this character, if you love Star Wars lore, this is the stuff, Lionel. I have a sense for power. This is the Sixth Brother speaking. And you do not have enough

to resist me for much longer. Weaponless as you are. That was where he was wrong. She wasn't weaponless. No Jedi ever was. Like you can think in tandem inside of the best stories we talk about this all the time. Our favorite Star stories that don't just try to do one thing.

Well, like, how can you show us that the character doesn't need the blades in the stretch where she's forging them? How can you show us that there's something more there than just the might that they bring, right? That they can unlock something about your sense of self or your connection. I'll read another passage that I fucking love. Two more quotes. This is just a great part of this book.

Kneeling beside her fallen foe, Asoka sifted through the wreckage of his lightsaber hilt. The crystals that had powered his lightsaber were no longer contained by metal, but their song had not dimmed. She held them in one hand almost shaking as the familiarity of them coursed through her. And then there were a few passages that describe her constructing.

And that stretch ends with this quote. When Asoka opened her hands, she was not surprised to find that two lightsabors, rough and unfinished, were waiting. They would need more work, but they were hers. When she turned them on, they shone the brightest white. that idea that they were hers, that is what feels most essential to me. We talk a lot about how those blades have become so iconic. Like you see them in 2015 in Rebels, which is, of course, before this description of how they came to be.

And you're like, whoa, I can't wait to learn more about this. Holy shit, right? That purification of something that the dark side had touched when she tells Bale, I freed them. Like, that's how she described it, which is just amazing. We associate that light with like the good, right? The light side. goodness, the daughter, which we'll talk about more today for sure. But the fact that they're so singular and reflective of her particular individual path and that line that they were hers just sums that up

so perfectly. I love this. I was so certain you would have this. So I'm so glad that you do. I love it. I'm also like this is one of my favorite smuggles you've ever done in your life was when a few minutes ago you said, I'm shocked and dismayed to find I do not have the gathering. So I'm going to talk about the category. That's how a smuggle works, man. We don't call it a smuggle for nothing. Seamless. Call you.

Call you Han Solo. I want to talk about this, but my warrior thing is next. So can we just do my warrior moment? And then I shall. Yes. So this is your number five. My number five. It is season seven, episode 10 of the Clone Wars, the Phantom Apprentice.

Okay, good. Okay, this was what I must becoming concerned about. No. Okay. So you have multiple things. Well, so you have multiple things from the final Clone Wars arc then, which is great. Yes. Okay.

Yeah. Perfect. I'm relieved. This is my, this category was called BAMF or Badass Motherfucker, but I'm happy to rename it, the family-friendly warrior from the Asoka trailer. Let's stick with BAM. Carlos Lee played this clip. Thank you so much.

lucky Anakin didn't show up. The way you're fighting, you wouldn't have lost it long. You have Kenobi's arrogance. You'll find I have many qualities for you to dislike. All right. This is not just here because I wanted to put my future

husband, Darth Mall, on the list. But this is, I think, I know what your favorite Asoka lightsaber fight is. This is my favorite Ossoca lightsaber fight. This is my second favorite Ossofa lightsaber fight. It is incredible.

This is taking place on Mandelor. There's a lot of fighting going on around this fight. So we're cutting back and forth between this fight between Mal and Asoka and the larger battle that's happening on Mandelor. But it starts in

the throne room where Maul is essentially trying to warn her of the future of what's going on. with Anakin of what's going on with Palpatine or Sidious or whatever, you know, and she does not, she's not ready for that information, okay? And not be, Joe, for some time. For quite a while.

And thus they fight. And the fight is some of the best shit I've ever seen in my entire life. I'm like breathless when I watch this. They fight through the throne room. She pushes him with her feet, like, you know, out the window. and he just like goes off into the abyss. Is it over? No, no, no, no.

Because they continue to fight. Mandelaar has this glass dome over it. And there are these like crazy narrow rafter situation underneath the glass dome. And they're fighting along there. And then they're slicing through the beams. And the beams are falling and they're falling. And they're just, they're well, well matched. And this is what's true about Asoko.

We talked about this a little bit on our last prep pot is that she is to the clip you, the clip you just played actually was one of my smuggles here. when she just cuts that Inquisitor down so fast with her blades in that Tales of the Jedi episode that you just referenced. At one point, Maul knocks the sabres out of her hand. She has no weapons left. And he's like, it's over, babe. It's over. And also, Maul is doing his favorite bit, which is, join me.

Want to be my apprentice sort of thing with her, right? It's like, if it's not a so good, Ezra, but he's just looking for a, he's just looking. for an apprentice. And she's like, no, checkmate, I have you. And she wins anyway, without her blades, defeats him, trusses him up, transport him to prison. Guess what? He doesn't make it there because no one has ever made it to, you know, where they're supposed to go when they're a prisoner in Star Wars. So this fight, when he says you have Kenobi's arrogance, something that you quoted earlier when we, when we started this episode. I just love this. There was no more fitting thing than a mall line about Canobi to launch our new feed.

Our twin heart. I had to do it. But I love that because, you know, we talked about and Anacan's influence on her, but, you know, Kenobi is there for a lot of that. So, you know, she has, and she wears it with pride. And I love she says, you'll find I'll have many qualities for you dislike. We're going to talk about this a little bit more later.

But like, Asoka was widely disliked as a character when she started on Clone Wars as a sort of, you know, snarky, snippy little Tina. major, and so we will talk about that a little bit later, but I love that that's sort of, like, in a meta way, incorporated into this battle taunting. There's a few other extremely BAMPfi moments for Sokatano that I want to smuggle in here. We might, may or may not talk about it later, but season two finale, Twilight of the Apprentice. We'll talk about that almost a shortly later, right? Okay.

Definitely later. All right. Season two, then I'll do this one. Season two, episode 10 of Rebels, the Future of the Force. This is something you and Jay talked about on your Asoka podcast, but I had already, like, I promise you, when I did my Rebels rewatch, I already wrote it down because it is such an undenial. It's like one of the best entrances a Star Wars character has ever had. She comes in, like, all looks dire for poor Ezra. The seventh sister, the fifth brother are just crushing it.

By the way, Sarah Michelle Geller as a girl. One of my favorite things that happens on rebels, bar none. I thought you might have this on your list because I know how fond you are of her performance. Yeah. She's so good. But Asoko arrives through, you know, the doors open. The light is there. The camera is down, up at her.

so she's like looming and she just comes and cleans their clocks and it is so dazzling and so amazing. So just like we just need to remember that she's just a boss fighter. She's incredible. And that goes back to what I said earlier about the way in which Anniken trained her. She's trained by Anakin Skywalker and trained in a harsh, punishing, unrelenting kind of way out of love. and is one of the best fighters that has ever existed in Star Wars. So, Suketano. Warrior, badass motherfucker.

Love this. I love you not only citing her ability and prowess, but that tactical, methodical prep. Because we should not forget that where is your master, where is Grand Admiral Thrawn is the line that launched this live action spinoff. We're about to watch. And, like, what do we always talk about with Throne? We talked about this in our last pod, right?

but the tactician, the strategist, the studier, the one who will not go into a fight that he is not prepared to win, or if he views that fight as just a step along the way. And so, like, we should not lose sight of the fact that Asoka, while very different from Thon and Thrawn in a number of crucial manners, is similarly inclined based on that training to make sure that she's not just rushing And I love that you called out the Obi-1 influence, because I think that's as much from,

that's the counter to Anakin in a lot of ways. Absolutely. Because Anakin's the, Let's Rush in. We can figure it out, guy. And Obi-1 is the, what if we took time to hatch a plan guy? And she has all of that inside of her.

And more, she's great. I love that pick. Seven Sister, one of the quietly, like, low-key, creepiest characters in the history of Star Wars, really, uh, Sarah is just so good. But there are voice performances and there are like voice performances.

And she's just like, I'm going to put a little, put a little pepper on every single one of my lines. Here I am. A low level season two bad guy and I am just going to walk away with it as far as joining. Great stuff. Okay, we're on my number five now. I feel like you have this on your list, but maybe this is one of those that you don't because you knew I would have it. This is my Asoka the Wanderer pick. Asoka

Found while out on her own mission Telling us And Dindjaran have you out of him, Lod That she will not train Grogu Higher Okay What's your four?

I feel bad. I feel like, I feel like, I'm excited to get all. Okay. If the last, okay, this is this is Clone Wars, season one, episode 19, Storm over Rilof. Do you have this?

I don't have this one. No. Okay. So if my last category was BAMF, badass motherfucker, this is Asoka Tano the fuckup. And we're going to hear this clip from Storm over Rilov. Carlos, please. I need a head count.

We need to know how many we lost today. Asoka, I am very disappointed in you. You not only disobeyed the Admiral, you disobeyed me. I thought I could knock out those battleships, so when Master Obi-Wan arrived, he could get through. I know you meant well, Snips. But there's a bigger picture that you're not aware of. First rule of war. Listen and obey your superiors.

But sometimes you get carried away. All that means is that I understand what you're going through. But I failed. It was a trap, Snips. It wasn't your fault. I lost so many of my pilots. Take heart, little one. That's the reality.

of command. Here's what you need to know about Assooketano in season one of the Clone Wars. She fucks up a lot over and over and over again. It's almost like the Jedi shouldn't put children on the front line of the Clone Wars. Almost like child soldiers are a bad idea? I don't know. She's 14, leading a run, gets her pilots killed. Don't worry, they're just clones.

And we can decide when or when we do not care about the clones. And then this is a moment we're just sort of like, oh, well, Assoca got several people killed. There's a number of moments early on in her run, Holocron Heist, Leadsaber Lost. Like there's a number of Asoka has fucked up moments. But what in – and we're going to talk about her arc in a second, but I think it's worth pointing out that in another book of Boba Fed episode from the – or the book of Boba Fed episode that we're talking about – we'll talk about probably another aspect later. but in from the desert comes a stranger,

Asoka's Book of a Fun episode, she says, No Place in the Galaxy, more safe than here with Luke. Yeah, the old no safer place than Hogwarts. Luke's Jedi Academy. Yeah. Which is where Kylo wrote a bunch of people killed everyone.

So, Asoka still... Joe, come on down to the Winterfelt Crips. It's going to be fine in here. It's totally safe where all the dead people are when we're dealing with someone who could raise the dead. Okay. Here's what I love about Assoca the fuck out. The way in which the show takes this sort of perceived character weakness, she never listens to authority, and makes it a feature not a bug, how that weakness and that frailty becomes a strength for her.

We always say, Mallory and I always say we love a character on an arc. This is what we mean. Something that is really interesting about Asoka, as she's placed into the Clone Wars, which, you know, has. as characters like Anakin Skywalker, Obi-Wan Kenobi and Padma, Amidallah, et cetera, et cetera, who we know what their arc is. We know what their trajectory is. We already knew their endpoint. She's the wild card.

She's bouncing off of characters whose destiny was, like, locked in for decades. We know where they're going. She's a little bit more exciting to watch for that reason because she provides movement, unpredictability. And we and as we're watching Clomores for the first time, way back in the day, We're like, how the heck is this going to work out? Anneken doesn't have a Badawan. What's going to happen to her?

I also love that a lot of her flaws, as she highlights in this clip, a lot of her flaws were she like brashly flout's authority when she thinks she's right. These were Anikin's flaws. And to see how she grapples with him as a mirror to how he grapples and eventually fails to really reckon with them. I have you heard of this really obscure Yoda quote the greatest teacher failure is? I have this quote coming for another item. Great stuff. So I can fuck up a lot.

And it is so interesting to watch. There's this great Faloni quote where he says stories are always told to identify with ourselves, our lives, and the people around us. that watching characters who are flawed, who fucked up is what makes good storytelling. If someone's perfect, then what's the point of watching them. I want to smuggle in here. I'm brashly smuggling in a clip. It's my only clip smuggle, just the one. You were about to hear the voices of George Lucas, Aviotum Lod, and then you'll hear Dave Faloni.

Carlisley play this. It just came kind of naturally since we've been dealing with Padawan. and masters and things, it would be interesting to see Anakin with a Padawan. And she was, you know, a tough little teenager. She was sort of a student position, but she wouldn't let Anakin tell her anything. She'd questioned everything he asked her. She'd stand up to him. And sometimes she'd outdo him.

So it was a dynamic relationship. And sometimes she'd fail, which was the best episodes where she would learn something. And it was tricky because you had this precocious teenager. When you watched the early episodes, she really feels like a teenager being young and a little bit over the top. And later on, when she's matured, for an animated character to have this kind of personality arc is almost unheard of over so many seasons. So that really worked out.

And again, you being the knowledgeable master filmmaker and me, the apprentice, it was easy to try to understand the relationship in the story that we were telling. So I love that Faloni highlights that a lot of these episodes where Asoka fucks up are some of the best to watch because they are. We're watching this person learn and grow. And for those of us who have watched those early Clone Wars days, you guys are just like hearing parts of it. But to watch a go from that to what Rosario Dawson is giving us in the Mandalorian in Book of Boba Fet is an extraordinary arc.

And then just to circle back to this whole thing about how Asoka was not well received when she first debuted. That Faloni warned Ashley Eckstein, like before it started, he's like, people are not going to like this character. He also, by the way, gave the same warning to the actress who plays Sabine. Like, this is, he was like, people are not going to like you. And what I love is that Falunia said, like, that people didn't like the show Clone Wars just because they put Star Wars on it, that they had to fight for it. And I feel like through the character of Asoka is this big fight for allegiance. Because as you and Jay highlighted so beautifully on your Asoka episode, as, you know, as evidenced by the fact that she gets her own live action show, this has become a very, important character to Star Wars fandom

from this space of unlikable young female character in a Star War that people think they already know how it all goes. So I just think her like her flaws, her disastrous flaws

are some of my favorite things about her. So badass motherfucker, yes, but also fuck up. That's Assocantia. I love that. I think my favorite thing, one of my favorite things about her. And I think my favorite thing about the mistake-making aspect

of her character is that while she is on that beautiful and gripping arc that has sucked so many of us into it over the years, she never stops making those mistakes. And I would argue that some of her potentially most catastrophic have come most recently. And I'll talk about that more when we go over the Grogu item. My next pick my number four is also one you might have though perhaps you had the strength to smuggle

these two together and I did not. I put them as separate entries. I am calling this one Osoka the Bridge and this is Asoka and Luke together watching Grogu and discussing Anakin. Go for it. Okay. Slightly tricky to talk about this one without having first talked about the Grogo one, but obviously this comes on the heels of it. I'll do my best. So this is from the book of Boba Fett. Chapter 6. From the desert comes a stranger. Carlos, can we hear this clip? Sometimes I wonder if his heart is in it. So much like your father. What should I do about him?

Trust your instincts. Will I see you again? Perhaps. May the force be with you. I'm getting emotional just listening to that. Also, thrilling to hear Grogo's little coos. The best. We missed you, buddy. Okay. Yeah.

Initially, I was going to group this with Chapter 13, The Jedi, the Mando episode that we will be talking about later. Couldn't do it. Here's why. Not only because they're both so great and so rich, but I think ultimately they show us different things about Asoka, both of which feel really important heading into the new. series. The

didn't scene, which is not in that clip we heard with Luke, but builds up to it. Our guy, Bando, has gone to try to find Grogu with his little Baskar bundle in hand. And we

witness one of these scenes that I think falls into the bucket you were just beautifully describing. A moment where we are deeply frustrated with what Asoka is doing. Where we want to reach through our screen and say, why is this the decision that you're making and having the experiences in your own life led you to see why this is wrong? And that specifically is what I love about it.

Like the fact that all that time later, Asoka is still fucking up. She's not a god. Like, she's a scarred and flawed human being who repeatedly does things that show that progress is not a perfect linear progression, right? It's incremental and it's fractured and you move in and out of it all the time. She is trying to keep Din and Grogu apart because, as we'll talk about elsewhere, there's this fear of where their attachment to each other will lead Grogu. But that is the same mistake that other people made with Anakin Skywalker. Again, we'll get into that a little bit more.

So when they have this like, foundling, perhaps he is a Padawan now moment, we're sort of sitting there shouting, why not both? And like, Asoka of all characters should understand and champion that, that you can be more than one thing that you shouldn't have to pick and choose. You know, that's been true for her. She's been around a lot of other characters like Ezra and Sabina and Hera in the Rebels days, who also are so special to us. And so, uh, so, indelible from the tail because of these like multifaceted identities that we've gotten to like experience in different ways over time. But then there are these beautiful elements that are entwined with this, including in a surprising and really lovely and touching way, this belief that she's showing in the possibility of the Jedi order being rebuilt. You know, we have this Luoyang line for the trailers in our in our minds. Perhaps it is time to begin again. we're coming off seeing Asoka in live action in her debut in The Mandalorian and the decision she makes with Grogu. And then here she seems, when she's explaining this Jedi school to Dinharan, proud, hopeful, even like a little bit joyful when she says it is nothing now but will someday be a great school.

Grogu will be its first student. Like there's a level of possibility there. I mean, you know, yes, we and Kylo have some notes from the future. but then there's like all that conflict, right? And then that conflict leads to acceptance. I love when Dan in this episode asks her, like, well, what's the difference? Right? He says, I don't understand why you're all right with Skywalker's decision to train the kid when you wouldn't.

And what does Asoka say? Because it was his choice, I don't control the wants of others. Now, in that Mandalorian episode, her fear was really dominant and really at the four. And here that has evolved and shifted, it's not that it's gone, but there's like a recognition and then an acceptance. You can use your experience to try to help other people, but you can't always and only like put all of your shit on them. You have to give people the space to make their own choices, right? To work toward their own achievements, hopefully, but also to make their same mistakes. The kinds of mistakes that we're talking about now with Asoka, every character has to have their version of that in order for them to learn and grow.

And that feels really crucial heading into this new show because Osoka's a headstrong character. So many of these characters who we love in Star Wars are headstrong. That's part of why they're memorable, but also part of why they can stray, right? Or make mistakes or clash with each other. So the amount of history that we bring to that conversation with Luke that we heard in that scene when Assoca wanders over as Luke is looking out watching Groger right before

a little four snap. Couldn't be cuter. Simply could not be cuter. little precious gumdrop. You know, we talked about this for a long time when we broke down that Bob episode. We dove deep. Dove deep.

Over on the House of R and the Ring of Verse. It was so emotional to see them together. Like, it is truly one of the most moving things that I've gotten to see as a Star Wars fan. Like, Asoka Tano, Anacan. Anacan's Padamon with Luke, Anakin's son. That's so much like your father line from that clip, right on the heels of Luke saying,

I wonder if his heart is in it. Like, it is just calling back to all of that uncertainty and conflict and doubt that you're citing from these earlier episodes and then all of the shit that unfolds from there. But she says it with a smile on her face. Right. Like, she's not in a state of fear

of like that lack of assuredness that Luke is feeling, but she recognizes that it's like, that doubt can lead to growth and that that's a human thing and that she needs to encourage him to try, right? To trust himself. even though he won't make a mistake.

It's also a really beautiful moment, similar to, like, some of what Obi-1 tried to give him in sort of saying that Anakin and Vader are two different people, where she says so much like your father with a smile on her face and it's just sort of like, what a healing, like, if your dad's Vader, but to have someone say so much like your father and, like, that's a sweet thing. That's a nice thing. Yeah. Even if it's doubt, like, you know, it's a beautiful gift. It's a gift she can give him.

stories about his dad that are uplifting and heroic and all this stuff. Exactly. And it makes us wonder how many other conversations have they had about Anakin. Like, what haven't we gotten to see? You know, because it ends with the question about the future, but like, well, what was the past? Like, what have they talked about? What does it been like? Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And like, I think that the other great gift that she gives in this episode is when she's complimentary and Luke says, like, it's actually more like he's remembering than I'm teaching him. And Asoka says, sometimes the student. guides the master. And that once again, like as we're thinking ahead to what is to come,

feels like very crucial for Asoka as a character who is this like vet, right? She knows so much, but she's always learning too. And who can she learn from and how? But I also love that as a another gift like you're identifying for Luke of like hearkening back to her time with Anakin and like all that she was able to teach him, which like there's a version of that that comes off kind of as a brag, but what it actually is is it shows that Anakin was a generous person who, like, deeply loved and respected and admired the people who he kept close to him. And part of what made that Asoka Anakin and with Obi-1-2, like that relationship between all of them and the clone were so wonderful to watch is the way that they were pushing and challenging and teaching each other

constantly, like often disagreeing, often at odds, but then like learning from those experiences. So that's a very, that promises quite a bit for the future. I love that episode. still can't believe. I'm like literally, it was like, let me go to the Mandalorian carousel to find this. Oh, wait. I know. I had the same moment.

This is a book of Boba Fed episode. I still cannot believe it. This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and make it a mess. You don't need weather tech floor liners in the summer unless you hit the beach or go camping. Then you'd want a cargo liner or a road trip goes sideways. Catchup goes rogue. ice cream drips, yeah, you'd be pretty happy about those weather tech seat protectors. So just to be

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All right? Okay. Yeah. Great. Let's do it. This is under the umbrella that I am calling, you called it friend ally, something like that. I'm calling it connection, which is very similar. Yeah, so Carlos will you play?

If we don't have the identical clip, maybe let's just hear a bolt. The force is with me. The forces with me. So what do we do? Fight our way to the shuttle? There are too many. Besides, I don't want to hurt them. I hate to tell you this, but they don't care.

This ship is going down, and those soldiers, my brothers, are willing to die and take you and me along with you. them. You're a good soldier, Rex. So is every one of those men down there. They may be willing to die, but I am not the one who is going to kill them. Beautiful. Those are from Season 7, Episode 11, Shattered. And Season 7, Episode 12, Victory and Death.

Cheerful, lighthearted episodes, as you can tell from the names. Can we just for a second talk about, like, season seven of Clone Wars is a thing that happened. I think that's important for understanding again, the impact of Osoka. The history of Clone Wars is a long and fascinating one, and that's like a whole other conversation. But when we talk about the impact that Osokas had, I think it's worth remembering that this all started with, like, even by the standards of panned Star Wars stories, a obliterated and annihilated 2008 Clone Wars movie. And then five seasons. of Clone Wars on Cartoon Network.

This was from 2009 to 2013. Disney Canon, the show is done, right? The Disney acquisition, the show is done. Then there is in the Bridge Season 6 called Lost Missions. There's a lot of good shit in season 6, I will say, but there's crucially no Asoka. No Asoka. So imagine spending five seasons,

experiencing the thing that Joanna was explaining earlier, right? You go from, who is this character and why is she next to Ann against Skywalker, questioning the chosen one, ripping off Zingers? What's happening? And by the end of season five, which we'll be talking about shortly, so we don't need to do it now, you're like, this is one of the most important characters in my life. And then you wonder if you're ever going to see her again,

and then the show comes back for a minute and she's not there. Season 7 of Clone Wars, this like save Clone Wars campaign, that Dave Filoni, like hearing him talk about what it meant to be able to finish that story, to go back to the character, 2020 on Disney Plus is when we got season seven of the Clone Wars. That is an incredibly long time to have to wait. It is a wonderful blessing that we got it. That's a long time for fans have to wait. And it is just in essence, an Asoka season.

Like the first, there's three, four episode arcs, and the first one is the bad batch arc that eventually births the bad batch spinoff. But the second two arcs are Soak arcs. And that's why we had to have the season. I think clearly undeniably for Filoni, it's why he felt like he had to make it, right? It was to be back with the character

and to give us more Asoka stories. And I think specifically, like I'm kind of like, me on the middle arc of season seven, the Trace and Rafa Assoca arc. But I would say that there's no stronger four-episode stretch at any point in the animated canon than the final four episodes of Season 7 of Clone Wars. It is, like, flawless. And a lot of that is because it does this, like, amazing job of explaining, even after all of those seasons with these characters.

Wait, but okay, like, where was Asoka during the events of Revent of the Sith? Like, we still have a few questions about some of this crucial timeline overlap. it's a story about the decisions that this character made and the way that they affected her and the people around her. And so, like, to get that reunion with Anakin, to see the moment with the 500 first where they're all wearing helmets that are painted to honor her. Everything that you already outlined with Maul,

like, why is she on Mandelor in the first place? Like, that's one of the other things that I love about the white forging of the white lightsabers, but also the presence on Siege of Mandelaar answer. It's like she's a character who answers the call. And that doesn't change after she leaves the order. She keeps answering the call. And so like to build toward the closing shots of season seven, which are just like absolutely astonishing and agonizing,

with everything that happens with the Socon Rex, there was really no better pairing to situate us with because their friendship is like one of the heartbeats of this entire experience. and said, while we always talk about how the Clone Wars is about Assocon, the Clone Wars is about better understanding Anakin, part of the ambition of the show was to show us the clones as individuals, the clones as characters who had like purposes and wants and desires and identities of their own. And the friendship that Asokon and Rex forge is like part of what unlocks that for us. So before everything with Order 66, it's just worth like really just appreciating what

to marvel it is that we got to see this at all. And I can't imagine if we hadn't because everything that happened here is like, it's just, it's kind of like the definition of essential. It's hard to, it's hard to think about the character's arc without these, these points along the way. Totally. I completely agree. And I think, um, so for folks who haven't seen it, what happens in the episode, or order 66, as you hopefully know, um, is when all the clone army, the army of the Republic is turned on the Jedi and programmed via a chip in their heads to kill the Jedi who have been their friends and allies for years and years through the Clone Wars. And Asoka is on a ship with the members of the 50 First who have painted their helmets orange to honor her, Rex, who has not

painted his helmet. So you can tell him apart. We got to know it's Rex. And her prisoner mall. and the order comes in and Rex, what I love about the story, you know, we see, as you, to your point about seeing them as individuals, watching Rex's hands shake as he's aiming the guns at her, saying, I'll do it, but hesitating and trying to fight his programming, enough so that she can escape, not intentionally, but she escapes. and then she tracks him down and captures him and gets that chip out of his head. And that's the clip, though I am one of the force that Mallory picked that you heard. And that's a beautiful moment. What happens then in my clip is then, okay, so she deprograms Rex. And all of that comes. She is like, I think the only Jedi, I could be, there could be a contradiction in some comic book somewhere.

Let's say one of the only Jedi is to not like just shoot her way out and kill. all the clones that have turned on her. This is a huge distinction because, to Mallory's point, she has humanized the clones after she got a bunch killed early on. Don't worry about them. But like these clones, she has forged relationships with, especially Rex from the beginning. Their whole friendship arc is really important.

So in the other clip that played, where she says you're a good soldier. I don't want to kill these other clones. she takes his helmet off. It is Luke and Anakin coated of let me take this helmet off and speak my face to your face of who you are and who I am and who we are. And this is one of Asoka's strongest gifts is her gift of connection that she has with people. I think it's really interesting to look at the Asoka novel, as Mallority outlined

when she was talking about some differences in the chiber crystal bleeding is something. like that, there are some differences. I think that novel was written sort of on the verge of the Disney deal. So, like, that's why it's sort of a little wobbly on some canon stuff. But Asoka in that book is thinking about why she survived Order 66. And she says, why had it been her, she'd had that thought a hundred times since Order 66? Why had she survived? She wasn't the most powerful. She wasn't even a Jedi Knight. And she was still alive when so many others had died. She asked the question so often because she knew the answer. She's hated facing it as painful as it was.

She'd survived because she had left. She had walked away. She'd walk away from the Jedi. She'd walked away from Therbeska. And because of that, she was alive, whether she deserved to be or not. So the idea is sort of there that because she was not technically a Jedi, that's why she survived. But that is not what happens in this episode. They were ready to kill her.

Yeah, they say that. They try to pull that stuff, right? tries, he's like, technically, and they're like, no, we're not doing, we're not doing loopholes. We're not doing semantics here today. It was a worthy, a worthy attempt. But this is, I mean, this is why we see the connections that Asoka makes time and time again on the clone wars in whatever planet they go to is why we see her again and again on Mandelor. She's called back to Mandelor time again because of the bonds she's formed there with Boca Tan, blah, blah, her understanding of Mandelori and culture is going to be something that will be interesting, I think, to track if her co-star in

Asoka is a Mandalorian Sabine Ren. You know, like, that's of interest in me. But, like, that is something that comes from her ability to connect. I don't think we have an individual moment for Lux, her, her, like, flirtation or whatever. But Lux is another great example of, like, you know, he's a separatist. She thinks they're the enemy, the other side. She gets to know him. She gets to understand the other side of things.

She's friends with Yoda, with Obi-1 with Padme. She has all these connective tissues all around her, which makes this other aspect that we're going to talk about, the outcast, the wanderer, all of that sort of stuff. And interesting other side of the coin, but I think it's worth remembering this connection aspect of her, which is, which proves key to her survival. Because I actually, I don't know if she makes it off that ship without Rex by her side. You know? Maybe. But I don't know that she does. And so I think stopping to save Rex is key because it shows her compassion.

But that in the book, she says it's because she wasn't technically a Jedi. In the show, it's because of her compassion. It's like twas biddy, pity stayed Bilbo's hand, like sort of like, when you take that moment to connect and even someone who you perceive as your enemy, what fruit can that bear for you? Yeah. The name Lux might sound familiar to our pod listeners who heard us no fewer than 85 times during the Mando's season three run.

Ask if they were ever going to mention that Bogatan had spent multiple seasons as a terrorist, including in a... Well, my question, I mean, my question about Lux, Lux moved on, But my question, if Asoka is not technically a Jedi, that means she can have, she can form however whatever attachments she wants to technically. So why is Assoca not have a trail of partners across the galaxy? Listen, when we got that, you know, I love first. Good or bad, they're always memorable line. Maybe we'll see some at some point.

Who knows? You better. I think that everything you're saying about connection is exactly right. And that's why, you know, I picked this one too, the friendship, like the fact that she just simply will not leave when the instinct out of survival, survival, out of fear, out of resentment, whatever the case may be for so many is I have to find a way to make it out of this alive. Her instinct is purely, I have to find out what happened to my friend. Like, how can this be the thing that is happening?

I need to understand. And there's that, there's that detective Obi-One thing there. This is like also in Asoka the detective episode because when she is hunting down the, the files on fives, she's learning something about the inhibitor chips. Like this is one of the other things about watching Clone Wars in full that is just astonishing is like how many times the information was just right there. And so it is important to see that Asoka is willing. to make the effort to protect this person and believe that she can, even if it means her life. And we're surrounded in this entire arc by reminders of her connection. Like one of the great connective tissue elements between the Clone Wars and the prequels is when we get that hollow Obi-Won,

the conversation with hologram Obi-Wan where he's like, I need you to talk to Anakin. He knows she is the absolute, the only hope. that she is the only one who has a chance of getting through to him. And that's the other thing with the activation of Order 66 and getting to see this through As Soka's eyes. And as you know, I never tire of seeing an Order 60s. I know some fans are like, enough. I never tire of it because the thing for me is as long as we get to see it through different

character's eyes and learn how it impacted them. So like when we got to see it for Grogo, when we got to see it for young Kaylin, it's like it teaches us something essential about that character's life and what happened to them. when we're cutting between Maul and Asoka's faces and we are hearing we're hearing the scene between Mace and Palpatine and Anakin and Asoka who, as we've alluded to many times

it will take her years to accept what Anakin has become she hears, I need him and what have I done? And her reaction to that is fear, fear for her friend, fear for her master. Not like a boy, I have some sussing out to do of what might have unfolded here

it's another reminder. Okay, well, I have to make sure I protect Rex. Somebody else I love is in peril. But this person, I have a chance to save. And so that's like why I love, why I pick the I Am One with the Force clip, not only because I'm always thinking of our guy, Cherut, from Rogue One. Yeah. But I think it's a really lovely encapsulation of the force connecting and binding all things.

Like specifically when we hear Rex start to say this too. What are we watching here? A force wielder who left the Jedi Order and a clone who was just turned into a weapon as part of a Sith Lord's long con saying in unison with each other

repeatedly, time and time again, I am one with the force and the force is with me and it is just one of those Star Wars moments. Like I can't watch that scene without crying. It's just, it wraps itself around your heart like, like, like, pergall tentacles, and it squeezes you until you're ported into another place entirely. And that place in this story is believing that you can save another person no matter how dire the circumstances. And that's just not something that every character could show us.

And because of what happens, like, what Rex is able to tell the bad batch, how to remove their inhibitor chips. Like, he's able to be with Gregor and Wolf in rebels years and years later in the canon. Like, you know, your clip with that line, they may be willing to die, but I'm not the one who's going to kill them. There's a part of me, I'll be honest. There's a part of me that's always like the contradiction at play in Asoka sending ball out into the hallway as a distraction when he then murders and mutilates legions of club members of the 501st.

Like, what did she think was going to happen there? So that part's a little bit odd to me. But despite that, the emotion of that moment is obviously supreme. I love that mall moment when she breaks him out. He's like, great. So glad who came to me. This is what we're going to do. She's like, no, no, no, no, no.

I just need you to do something over there. Yeah. And then he's using metal plates to decapitate clen troopers like seconds later. It's a tough one. It's a tough one. Still, like in Old Friends Not Forgot, which is the opening episode of this arc, when Anakin is bringing her to see the painted helmets, and he says loyalty means everything to the clones

because she's like, they shouldn't call me commander. They have not forgotten what you've done for them and that works all. It's like it's circular, the logic, right? Like she hasn't forgotten what they've done for her either. The moment of them, when she walks out and sees them all with their helmets painted, orange and white, with the markings that she has,

is so emotional. And then the payoff, just a few episodes later, of them turning on her while still having the helmets honoring her. And then... And then on the sticks, their mass burial, their mass grave. Her burying them and putting all those helmets on sticks... Horrifying.

And then Anakin was there when they debuted the helmets, and then Vader is their leader with the helmets on the sticks. It's such good Star Wars television. So good. If you're like, okay, I don't have time to actually watch any of the stuff you guys are talking about and you just want to watch like five minutes, literally just go to the last end of the glenores,

when Vader years after Asoka has dropped her saber, arrives and walks through the snow and picks it up, and Morai is flying overhead, and he activates it, and we get to see that blue glint on Vader's armor instead of red. And then we watch his retreating form in like the cracked, ruined front of that very helmet. It is like absolutely are chilling.

It is so, so, so, so good. And I think, like, the other thing we've talked about a lot with Asoka and we'll come up again today is that I Won't Leave You Idea. That's definitely going to come up in another item we talk about. And I like that we get to see that with characters other than Anakin. Like, that's not the only character she feels that way about. Like, that I won't leave you heart of Asoka is very present here with Rex, right? And it's present for Asoka and a lot of the characters she cares about.

So, like, how will that manifest in the new story we're about? to watch. Can't wait to find out. Cannot wait to find out. Okay, where are we? So that was your, that was my seven and your three? Yeah. Okay, so I tell you now what my three was.

Yeah. Okay. My three is one you've already mentioned. So this is my higher spot. World Between Worlds. Yes. Yes. This is, uh, I'm, I'm calling this one Asoka the Jedi.

This is my Jedi pick for Asoka. my master teacher. Beautiful. Yeah. Perfect. Okay. Clips? Clips.

I can reach him. Ezra. Canaan gave his life so that you could live. If he's taken out of this moment, you all die. You don't understand what you're asking me to do. Yes, I do. You can't save your master. And I can't save mine.

I'm asking you to let go. Sad. Take it away. Mallory Rubin. So remind us where you had this show. This was your number six. Six. Okay.

So you're six, my three. This was the, also this is kind of like my mystical pick. I think my truest twist other than not having the gathering is that I don't have the mortis arc on here. Me neither. Yeah. This was the big, like, okay, I'm not going to for the 9,000th list to have the Mordas Ark on here. But part of the reason I felt okay about it is because I think we can talk about it

inside of this. This is a very organic smuggle because... And I think we also talked about it a good deal on the last... Yeah, we talked about it in the last step, but like you see the daughter and Marai on the mural of the mortis gods in this stretch of season four of rebels. Like, Mariah is literally in the world between worlds with Ezra and Asoka. There's a conversation. But Marai, you're here. I am daughter. Marai. She's an old friend. Like, it's all here. Everything that happened in Mortis. And so it's in our mind. I think that, like, us remembering that Asoka has these, even by the standards of supremely talented force users, this truly deep and magical connection to the force is like very present in the mortis arc with the daughter, resurrecting in Asoka, who was quite literally killed in those episodes. If you're like, huh, go listen to our prior podcast. We talked all about it. And there's nothing more holy shit force magic than what we get to watch in a world between worlds in season four of rebels. I love this for so many reasons. There's a lot of Asoka Ezra Anakin learning from mistakes, saving someone when you couldn't save someone else stuff that we want to talk about here.

I love this in part because on the magic front before we move to like the character stuff, there is an openness that Asoka brings, like an ability to see that stems from a desire and a willingness to. And I can't wait to see how that aspect of the character manifests in new ways in the new series. Like Asoka's an explorer. Asoka's a nomad. Asoka's a pilgrim. Asoka's a seeker of knowledge. And so, yes, Ezra is the one who pulls Asoka into the world between worlds, saving her from Vader and the Malacor duel, which we finally get to learn inside of this episode. But look what she does when she's there. Like, look what she makes of that opportunity. Look how her curiosity and her sense of wonder guide her. Look how quickly she can do something specific about Canaan and Doom, for example. But then look at the wisdom she can impart the way that she can guide Ezra, the way that she can, even though she is literally.

seconds years, but from her perspective, seconds away from having said, I am no Jedi, she's behaving here to Ezra as a Jedi master would. And the fact that her character can contain those nuances and those contradictions is just really, really special. You know, I was trying to pick the perfect, you know, there's a few moments where we see Asoka training Ezra. Canaan is his master, but we see just a few moments in season two of them connecting. One of my favorites is in season two, episode 20 of Rebels when he's struggling.

And she says, my experience is just when you think you understand the force, you find out how little you actually know. So to your point about her endless curiosity, and Asoka is someone who's always asking questions, challenging assumptions, all that sort of stuff. But also opening up to Ezra this idea of you don't have to know everything. everything to engage with this. Sometimes opening yourself up to what you don't know or being vulnerable with what you don't know is what yields deeper understanding of the thing. There's also in Star Wars Forces of Destiny, which was a web series. I know you know.

I'm saying for people who have not seen it, but Star Wars of Destiny was a series of so they put on YouTube, focused on female characters like Leah, Sabine, Genaroso, blah, blah. And there's one where Asoka is training Ezra. It's called A Disarming Lesson. And she takes the Khyber out of his lightsaber and throws it away. And he's like, fight me now. Defend me now. What are you going to do?

And he says, I love this. This I had right after my Padawan section. because to go back to that, Tales of the Jedi, practice makes perfect scene when she's like, why are you, no one else is training me like this,

why are you doing this? And Anakin tells her why in that, this is what Ezra says here. He says, what are you doing? And she says, teaching you. And he says, Canaan never taught me like this.

And she says, good. It can be a new lesson. And so that is just her porting over. Anakin's like tough love. Like, we're going to do it a, differently, we're going to do it harder, and this is going to make you better. And so, yes, I love that you have that piece from the desert comes a stranger in Book of Boba Fett, where

sometimes a student teaches the master that back and forth wrote feedback loop with Anakin and Asoka. So interesting. But also watching her try to be a master the way that Anakin was a master to her. And Ezra is our sort of best example of that. There's a few other from earlier Clone Wars episodes where, you know, there are younglings around her, you mentioned them. But like, this Ezra relationship, which is fairly brief. It's just appearances here and there throughout season two until she, you know, goes away

at the end of season two. I'm sure you will talk about that. But it is impactful, and especially because, you know, we want to think about it a lot because Ezra's hologram is in the trailer for Assoca, and we really hope he's there in the flesh. And so what does their previous interaction tell us about what we can expect for how they will interact? Where is he in the force at that point? What new things has he learned because he has opened himself up to understanding the force

in a different way? Yeah. I mean, you called this out when we were talking in our last pot about the Rebels epilogue where Sabine and Asoka set off together. That's the closing scene of Rebels to go. look for Ezra, you cited from this episode, A World Between Worlds, the moment when Ezra says when you get back, come and find me, Soka says, I will, I promise. Like, this episode has a lot that should be top of mind for us heading into, I mean, frankly, including like the life debt,

you know, on the heels of the note about I owe her my life, which was about Marai, the Soka says, and now I owe you that as well to Ezra. Like, these characters are deeply connected, not only through the force, but through shared experience. I really like the attention you're bringing to the presence of Anakin in these lessons because I think that as is so often the case with Asoka, it's not like neat and tidy. There's not just what he taught her that she's imparting now as a teacher too. It's what he taught her not to do, right? So like what she's afraid of.

Yeah. Exactly. Like these, this is an episode at the end of the day about pulling Ezra back from the brink in a way that she couldn't with Anakin. This is like a character who has a chance to help somebody in a way that she, in a way that she has a specific regret about with another person that has defined the rest of her life. And again, that's where like the fact that he's pulling her out of that moment with Vader, even though we're seasons later,

it's just so, so, so rich. When in the clip we played, she's saying, you can't save your master and I can't save mine. I'm asking you to let go. Like,

this is about Assoca saving Ezra in a way she didn't save Anakin, but also getting to save her. like getting to give herself a reprieve for a minute from the grief, you know? Like Ezra, I mean, this is a heartbreaking Ezra episode when he's running and looking and searching and saying that one of these portals must lead to Canaan. And Asoka says, Ezra, think about what you're doing. What does Ezra say? I know what I'm doing.

Here in this place, I can change things. I can stop Canaan from dying. Stop me if that sounds like a character you've met before whose name is Anakin Skywalker. said in attack of the clones. One day I will become the greatest Jedi ever. I will even learn how to stop people from dying. And the fact that she reaches... Did Canon die of sadness?

The fact that she's able to reach Ezra here and get him to embrace that there are some things, and we heard that I can't control the wants of others. Like sometimes you can't control your own wants either, right? And like there are things that you have to be able to accept that you cannot change. Like it's always been so fascinating because we talk so much in our pods

about how how like the Jedi myopia about attachment is like a real limitation. And I always love the way that George Lucas has clarified over the years. Like it's not just that Anakin like had a crush. It was this unnatural desire to control something like life and death.

Right. And the sacrifice, this lesson about sacrifice, like she says to Ezra, you must see Canaan found in the moment when he was needed most and he did what he had to do for everyone. What does Ezra say? That's the lesson. I see it now.

And we know that he sees it because of the decision he makes to protect other people in the finale. What I love about that is that like when he makes the decision that he makes in the rebels finale and, you know, he's like, he's actively engaging with the memory of Canaan in that moment. but the lesson is only learned from the combination of Canaan and Asoka, right? Asoka has to give him the lesson on the silver platter and he's like, oh, there it is. You know what I mean? So yeah, okay, one last lesson from my master delivered to me by this other, not, don't call her a Jedi, not a girl, not a Jedi, master, Asuketana. Do you think something that was occurring to me revisiting this is like, Do you think that, even though on the one hand she pulled Ezra back from the brink and from making a mistake in a world between worlds,

do you think that this is also guilt that Asoka is carrying? That this lesson that she taught him here is what leads him to do what he does with Thron? Like, I'm really curious to see if that's something she's wrestling with. Something to think about. Yeah. Okay. We are on your number two. which is chapter 13 of the Mandalorian, the Jedi.

Okay. So that was my number five. Carlos, let's hear the clips. He's formed a strong attachment to you. I cannot train him. What? Why not? You've seen what he can do.

His attachment to you makes him vulnerable to his fears. His anger. All the more reason to train him. No. I've seen what such feelings can do to a fully trained Jedi night. to the best of us I will not start this child down that path better to let his abilities fade

okay Joe take us through it I have this under my isolation outcast umbrella right so this is the other side of connection with Rex is this rejection of connecting to I have this under Wanderer so yeah of a piece once again what she says

says here is from a certain point of view, true. But we also know that, like, her own guilt is feeling this. And when she's talking, when we watched this, which was not that long ago, and she outright cites Anakin and attachment. We know she's talking about that. But a question that you and I have after seeing the trailer for Asoka and understanding that there's some sort of relationship between Sabine and Asoka that we don't know when it took place in time, is she also saying this in reaction to something that happens with Sabine? We genuinely, you and I genuinely don't know the answer to that. The entire late stage marketing campaign trailers, promos, the little shorts about the history

and the master of apprentice and stars is oriented around that idea. Yeah. So we don't know the answer to that, but like it is possible that when she's talking about this, She's not just talking about Anakin's failures or her failure to, quote unquote, save Anakin or whatever, but also a failure that she has already had in the role of master. We don't know the answer. This idea of what you called her a nomad and a pilgrim, and that is not unique to her as a Jedi, certainly.

But whenever a character travels alone, I get nervous to them. You and I have talked about this a lot with our Doctor Who pods about how. like the doctor should not travel alone in the TARDIS or if you prefer a Targaryen alone in the world is a terrible thing. Like whatever it is, I'm going to say that. I just, when a character is out there in the world and especially in the stretch that you were talking about when you were referencing the novel where she is hiding who she truly is, when you are, she's not a Jedi, but when you are, you are. are a forced user after Orte 66, and you have to divorce yourself from a core, like, part of yourself. That is an extremely isolating and lonely aspect. And so when I was talking to Van about this, actually, he was talking about the Asoka that we've seen in live action versus the

Asoka that we've seen in animation. And he was like, she's so much, she's not nearly as playful in live action. And I'm just like, you have to think about like what she has been through and what we have missed in this long arc of this character and what she is currently grappling with by the time we see her in the Mandalorian Book of O'Fet and then eventually her own TV series. I want to cite this one part about Obi-Wan in the Asoka novel. As you reference, we get some good Obi-Wan insight. This is about that sort of connection versus detachment thing. Alone and connected, aloof and hopelessly entwined. Obi-Wan had only a moment before he was wrenched back into the physical world, but it was

long enough to renew his hope. That's about Quigon. But like this idea, because when you think about a Jedi alone somewhere, we have to, of course, think about Obi-One alone in the desert, or so we thought before we saw the Obi-Wan show, but alone in the desert for much of his life. And then Asoka, similarly in her novel, thinking about her. connections after Order 66 to the people who are closest to her. She says, but she didn't know where any of her friends had been during the disaster. She knew only that she couldn't find them

afterward, that her sense of them was gone as if they had ceased to exist. So this is her searching for feeling of, where is Anakin? I can't even feel him anymore. I also wanted to bring up this idea of choice that you've already touched on with. her when you mentioned the because it was his choice I don't control the wants of others that line that you referenced right at the end of this episode the Jedi you know when when Dyn's like are you sure you won't train him like what the hell am I supposed to do just a single dad in the world here and my kid is weird can you help me right and she says you'll find the ancient ruins of a temple that is a strong connection to the forest place Grogo on the scene stone at the

top of the mountain. Then what? Then Grogu may choose his path. So this idea of choice, which is on the one hand, allows her to sort of wash her hands of certain things, as you've already alluded to. But at the other hand, I am very fascinated right now with this idea of choice versus destiny in Star Wars. It's something that I've been thinking a lot about. like say fulfill your, I've been thinking a lot about the difference between destiny and fate because there are two different things, right?

Fate is you are fated to die. There is no getting out of it. You are fated to die. Destiny is something you can fulfill. Fulfill your destiny, right? Something you have a choice in, a path laid before you,

um, and that free choice and how that, the choices that you make, how that is, intermingled with this idea of visions and prophecy and destiny in Star Wars. I just, I find it extremely fascinating that we've heard this idea of choice emphatically from Asoka a few times over her few live action appearances. And what does that mean for what is she grappling with as we get to know her a bit more

in the Asoka series? This, you know, from the original Star Wars film, when Luke is wearing his very doofy training helmet, right? And Canobi says to him, remember, Jedi can feel the force flowing through him. And Luke says, you mean it controls your actions? And Canobey goes, partially, but it also obeys your commands. So this idea of the force is both destiny and choice. Like, I love this example of, like, it's fate that Quigon will land on Tatum. to me, but it's free will to guide Antigant on the path of the Jedi, right?

Like, there's just these, like, moments of difference in that idea of fate, destiny, choice, free will. And Asoka, if you're burdened with a tremendous amount of guilt over something that has happened, don't you want to believe that something was fated or do you want to choose to believe that a choice was made in a choice? And it was a choice you made and you made the wrong choice. It depends how much you are intent on punishing yourself. But I just think that that is such an interesting word that is cropped up again and again with this character.

And just as a microcosm, and then I'm going to volley it over to you. But that episode of The Jedi, which is just a pleasure to rewatch, I think is a really good roadmap for people wondering what to expect from the Asoka series, since this was a Dave Faloni episode of the Mandalone. You've got Morgan Elspeth who's in the Asoka series. You've got ruined temples, which, you know, are in the Asoka series. And then this choice versus destiny idea, I just think it's all sort of caked in there. And I'm excited to see how it sort of flourishes as we continue to explore. The Bocobo episode that we talked about is also a Faloni episode. So I think that's obviously like not, you know, not an accident.

that he's there to shape our earliest experiences with the character and live actions choosing to show us things. I think you're absolutely right that are setting the table from what he's interested in examining with this character at this point in her journey. I mean,

choice versus destiny and free will, like literally my favorite thing to talk about in these stories. There's no more interesting character than Osoka, the one who is next to the guy that everyone calls the chosen one. Like, it's just perfect. And I think you're exactly right

that the fact that she is so determined to make her own choices and question convention and challenge authority and routine, if she just constantly said, I nailed it, like, what's interesting about that? So the fact that she's preaching the power of some sort of ability to shape the course of events while having to grapple with the fact that sometimes the decisions you make lead you to a place you don't want to go, that's like a really rich storytelling territory. And I think the loneliness, you know, rewatching this, I think, like,

I've said many times how when we get the where's grand admiral thron, I just like stood up, you know, in my living room and shouted aloud. And I was like, holy shit, it's happening. This is fucking bliss. Like, how lucky are we to be Star Wars fans in this era, right? Right. Rewatching it, the thing that stood out to me,

honestly, more than that, was at the beginning of the episode, when Asoka and Morgan are interacting for the first time and we hear I've been expecting you. And Asoka says, then you know what I want. Like, I think that tells us how long Asoka has been doing this. And that makes it what you're sketching out about her isolation even more devastating. You know, another line from the Osoka novel that always gets me is she was alone, something she was never meant to be.

Like that is just absolutely heart-wrenching. And she has to find comfort and purpose in that because it is the path that she has chosen. But there are a lot of circumstances outside of those choices that have helped to put her in a position where she is not surrounded by the people who she might want to be with.

And so to see like the tenderness with which she greets Grogu, like I hope it's about him, the way that they are able to commune through the force, the way that she shares his name with us and Dinn for the first time. Smiles at him, yeah. And then, like, when she says,

then his memory becomes dark. He seemed lost alone. You watch this, there's not a character in Star Wars who could relate to that more keenly, you know? Like, she knows exactly what that's like. And so to see Asoka in the role of a great Jedi master,

who is, even though she is refusing to train Grogo, still in the position here of being the one to explain the force to a character for the first time? Like, Yoda with Luke and Luke with Ray and Canaan with Ezra, et cetera, et cetera, it's this great Star Wars tradition. And we get to see Asoka occupy that seat in this stretch and tell them the force is what gives him his powers.

It does an energy feel created by all living things. To wield it takes a great deal of training and discipline. She has this love of the force and reverence for it and sees the beauty and the possibility in it, even as she is saying, I cannot train him. I think what you cited earlier about, like, what other experiences might be shaping what she says here in the clip that we played is really interesting. I do think that the, to a fully trained Jedi Knight to the best of us, is like specifically about Anakin, like, yeah, the way that she is. Yes, I think I said that. Like, yeah, the way that she has set, the specific, like the intonation and the no, you know, the emotion, the voice thick with emotion as she says no and chokes that out. The fear that she's describing in Grogu is also in her.

Like, that's the effect of Anakin's shadow and the way that it looms forever over her life. Like, the tragedy of this to me is, it's not just that she sees the parallels between Grogo and Anakin and worries maybe about. about what a certain decision could spark in Grogu and the decisions that he could make and where he could go. But she's out there hunting for Thrawn, standing on a world where one of his minions has stripped

every resource from that planet to fuel her enterprise. And the people who call this place home are imprisoned in the fucking streets, electrocuted for sport. And she meets another force wheel. who could in theory learn to challenge that with her and her response is better to let his abilities fade. Like that this is a portrait of shaken face.

She's terrified. Yeah. She's terrified. Yeah. It's so, so heartbreaking. I mean, what's such? I mean, she's, and she's not really there in her capacity as like Jedi, even though she's not a Jedi, like liberator of the people of this planet. Like, that's not.

Where's Grand Animal Throne? Exactly. It was so interesting to watch this episode in conjunction with one of the Duku episodes of Tales the Jedi where it's like a very similar situation where Ducco rose up to a planet that has just been like absolutely oppressed and stripped, honestly visually very similar. And what's interesting about that episode of Tales of the Jedi, this is related, I promise, with Duko and his Padawan Quigon is when you watch that sort of mini Duku arc in Tales the Jedi, again, it just drives home to me

how important the Padawan is for the master. Again, to go back to that Doctor Who thing, like sometimes you need someone there to tell you no, to make you stop. And that is just like, we're going to talk about Asoka's decision to leave Anakin and I do not, I think it's ridiculous to blame her for what happened. But I just don't think Jedi should ever travel.

alone. That's my, I think, you know, if I were to make one rule about the Jedi order, it wouldn't be no attachments. I would be like, oh, have your buddy. Two, that must always be two. This is one of the tragedies, right? Of like the Jedi way, this like fear of attachment while also like centering their entire existence around this relationship. Yeah. Between a master and an apprentice. And like, that moment when Asoka says the Jedi Order fell a long time ago Amanda says so to the Empire

yet it's still hunts him I think I love that because he would be the first admit that he doesn't know what he's talking about right? He's at every episode leading off to that he needs someone to tell him something so that he can make it to this point

but he's able to provide such crucial perspective there for Osoka and for us as Star Wars fans like if the heroes run from the past because they fear it and the villains let it fuel them

then how can that spark of rebellion ever catch fire again, right? Like, the heroes have to be able to look back from the past and find strength there, too. So there's a lot of setup here for the series, and it's just an incredible episode of television that I love. Watch the last four episodes of the Clone Wars, season seven, watch the Jedi Mandalorian,

and also Dave Filoni says, just watch season four of Rebels. There you go. That's your, that's it. Just an entire season of television, and you should be fine. I have some other rebels. I think you should watch. But Dave himself says you just...

I think you should watch. Dave says just season four. And you should be fine. Guess what? He's not hosting this podcast. We are. You want to talk about some rebels people should watch?

My number two is Asoka the Rebel. It is Asoka dueling Vader on Malacor confronting at last what Anakin has become. We talked about it on our last pod for a while. So we will keep it quick here.

But Carlos, let's hear this. clip from Rebel Season 2, Episode 22, Twilight of the Apprentice, part two. Perhaps this child will confess what you will not. I was beginning to believe I knew who you were behind that mask, but it's impossible. My master could never be as vile as you. Anakin Skywalker was weak. I destroyed him.

Then I will avenge his death. Revenge is not the Jedi way. I am no Jedi. And then that like, that music kicks in. The scene is everything. This episode is everything. I absolutely love it. We've chatted about it a lot already.

I think it is definitely worth at a minimum watching these couple of scenes between Asoka and Anakin before the new show. A lot of this connects to prior moments in rebels, their encounter in the sky earlier in season two, the vision that Asoka said, C's of Anakin and then Vader and Shroud of Darkness, season two episode 18, another great one in the Jedi Temple.

We talked about that last pot as well. Why are they there? Why are Asoka and Canaan and Ezra on Malcore? They went to the Jedi Temple on Withal to seek knowledge. They wanted to try to fight the inquisitors and fight the darkness so that their friends would be safe because they knew if they didn't, that every single. step they took in the future, they would be hunted and everyone they cared about would be in peril. Osoka has left the order long before the events of this stretch of rebels. There is never a single

moment where she tries to lead Ezra and Canaan away from this Jedi path. There is a moment where she says when they're at the temple, I shouldn't be the one to open the door. You two should open the door, right? But she's right there with them, sitting in the circle, meditating, tapping into the power of the force inside of that Jedi temple. She's on Malikor, fighting the Inquisitors, facing Maul, does whatever she has to to save Ezra, including this Anakin encounter. We see a lot of what you were talking about earlier with the Banff, right, the prowess as a fighter here.

I mean, she is the Paduan who has become like a light side mirror. She's going blow for blow with Vader here. So to toe. The idea of The Apprentice in this episode, Mall was an apprentice, Canaan was an apprentice, Ezra was an apprentice. Anakin was an apprentice. She was an apprentice. They are all part of this tradition

and this lineage. This is where I was thinking of the Yoda, we are what they grow beyond. This is the burden of all masters line from the Last Jedi. Because given how interested Faloni seems to be in exploring this idea of master and apprentice,

like what does it mean to have learned from somebody and then try to teach somebody else? Like, what do you change? What do you try to imbue and put forward? Yeah, like I'm so interested in seeing that with Asoka, especially having like studied at the knee of fucking Obi-Wan Cadoby and Anakin Skywalker of Yonovina in all the good ways and also all the ways that would scar you and make you want to do something different than they had done with you. And so when we get that helmet slice and Twilight of The Apprentice and we see Anakin Skywalker's face under Darth Vader's helmet and we hear his voice just for a second as he's saying Asoka's name.

like the way that she is transformed in that instant, you know, I don't think when you're rewatching all of this stuff at once or thinking about the character, that you can rewatch this or watch it for the first time and not think about everything we just talked about with Grogu and Din. Look at Asoko's attachment to Anakin here.

There is like nothing in that instant that she would not do for him. Nothing, right? And she would convince herself he is dead. Yes, absolutely. So the only way she can move forward is to say, he's dead. He's not here anymore. Well, that, but also she's just like, I'm not going to leave you. And she, she would have died

there with him. Absolutely. Absolutely. The temple is crumbling around them. And they are both right there. I'm not leaving this time. Right. The I won't leave you idea that we get here is like, I think we talk a lot about I Am No Jedi as this really seismic and essential Asokalcine. And it is. We'll talk about that more in a second. But I think. I think I won't leave you is the other like equally weighty mission statement for the character. You know, it's so present and so much of what we've talked about today. And I think that the reason that is so interesting is because the character's most famous moment is deciding to leave. So it is a creed that's like wrought by conviction, yes, but also by guilt and shame and regret.

And that is like so deeply compelling for us to watch play out and evolve over time. And then we get that I am no Jedi pronouncement here and we trigger that like almost holy score. And the thing that I've always loved so much about this is that it is not an indictment of Asoka at all when she says that it's this embrace. It's this embrace of her atypical, untraditional path. And the fact that the reason her perspective, like the reason her vantage point is often so different, so distinct from other characters is just because she has walked to a perch that nobody else bothered to try to find. You know? And so, of course, she sees things differently. And so how can she train and teach other people now from that particular point of view? I just love this episode so much. I hope everyone watches it. I think it's really great. Also, some great mall stuff there. And Joe loves mall. It's a great mall episode. Guess what?

There isn't a bad mall episode, and that's just true. Honestly true. You know, the last thing I'll say about this is in terms of that, I am no Jedi idea, I think that despite the fact that she's standing here saying, I am no Jedi, or maybe more accurately because she is standing here saying, I am no Jedi,

on this Sith temple planet facing Anakin who became Vader. Like, leaving the order did not have to mean ceasing to be a Jedi, actually. Like we talk a lot about the, okay, the particular language and who's got the loophole here or there. But the word can be more than just like the body or structure of power implied. And I think that part of what Faloni is interested in exploring with the character is like how Asoka's view of what it means to be a Jedi evolves over time. It's not just that she walked away and that was it forever, right? You can embrace certain aspects of that.

Jedihood, Jedi dumb. while leaving others behind. Jetitude, yeah. I think that also, I mean, we are so clearly invoking Aowin and Lord of the Rings. I am no Jedi. I am no man.

She says as she faced down the Nazgul. And I think that, which is in turn invoking Macbeth. But anyway, like, I think the point of that line in that moment, is you think you have the measure of me. You think you know who I am. You think you know, you are so assured you know how to beat me.

You know what steps I'm going to take because you think in Aowen's case, you think I'm a man or, you know. And then in a soca's case, you think you can predict what I'm going to do because you are putting me in this bucket. And you know as well as I do that I walked away from that. And I forced my own path. Should we talk about that moment? Should we talk about that? I assume both of our number ones. Our share number one, Carlos, we play the clip.

Had to be. Why are you doing this? The council didn't trust me. So how can I trust myself? What about me? I believed in you. I stood by you. I know you believe in me, Anakin.

And I'm grateful for that. But this isn't about you. I can't stay here any longer. Not now. The Jedi Order is your life. You can't just throw it away like this. Asoka, you are making a mistake. Maybe.

But I have to sort this out on my own. Without the council. And without you. I understand. More than you realize, I understand wanting to walk away from the order. I know. Season 5, episode 20,

wrong Jedi. Clone Wars. This is my Asoka the outcast. This is my Asoka the rebel. So this is the, we talked about this a lot on our last Asoka pod. It is the defining moment of this character who has been framed for crime

and the Jedi Council casts her out And then Rutt Row, she didn't do the crime. Then they're like, great. This is your trial. Now you're a Jedi. Wasn't this a good thing that this happened? And she's like, I don't want it. And I don't want it.

And she walks away. And she walks away from Anakin. And Anakin is heartbroken. And we talked a lot on the last pod about how this was such a brilliant storytelling choice to take a player off the board without having to kill her or, you know, do something that, and then to make it a defining character choice. It was a logistical thing they needed to get her off the chessboard for Revenge of the Sith, but they anchored it so deeply in a character who is constantly questioning authority,

questioning the rules, questioning where she belongs. There's the part at the end that you and I both included in our clips. which you have talked so beautifully about, about the way in which Anakin is trying to tell her, like, yeah, I feel the, I feel, I chate, I too chaf against the Jedi order. She says, I know, and it's her coded way of telling him that she understands about his relationship with Padme, a character, you know, she has her own relationship with Padme, but like she knows his secret. She understands. She's walking away anyway. But I think the thing that I really want to focus here for, on for a second is, so how can I trust myself this line that she says here?

And I think it's such an interesting partner to one of the lines we've heard previous in this episode, her talking to digitally DH Luke Skywalker and saying, trust your instincts, right? But Asoka, I think, is a character constantly

in turmoil and doubt and conflict despite the way that Rosario Dawson is playing her with straight spine self-assuredness, you know, there is this inner conflict in her. Conflict inside the human heart, one might almost say Mallory Rubin. She's the only thing worth writing about. And these constant contradictions. She is both apprentice and master. She is both badass motherfucker and fuck up.

She is both someone who connects and someone who is an outcast. She is all those things inside of one person. And I am so interested. I don't know if we're going to get it. But something I would love to see in Asoka is a crack, some cracks on that veneer of certainty that we've seen. Because we know because we've studied the character and we understand what the inner turmoil is roiling underneath what seems like someone

who has all the answers and really knows what's going on. That's not context, people who haven't seen the animated shows will necessarily have. This is why we're doing multiple prep pods, but I have heard from a lot of people just even the last couple days

since you and I saw the first two episodes, like, will someone who hasn't watched the animated shows understand, be able to understand or grab onto the show? And sort of my answer depends on what time of day you ask me, but I think that cracking her open a bit more in live action. And we know that Rosario is absolutely capable of that could only help an audience latch on to a character that some of us have had years and years and years and years to learn to love. what do you want to say about this Asoka moment? Yeah, I think, you know, I think part of why I ended up going with both of the live action appearances that we've seen so far instead of just pairing them is because I was struck revisiting them back to back by again, like the contradictions that are very present just there.

I don't think we're seeing this total certainty. I think the doubt and the shaken faith is here in the live action. and in the later stages of the character too in a way that will continue to be like this defining thing and how could it not be? Because the fact that like she walks away here and this character who is like defined by asking questions, we've talked a lot about the pluck

and the kind of precocious nature of those younger years, like at a certain point, if you're asking other questions and you get answers you don't like, you have to heed that, right? Like you have to act on that. And she does. And it's just this totally unique Star Wars choice. And this figure who remains so central to the rebellion, time as fulcrum, so central in so many of the other lives of these characters we've grown to love and care about. This idea of like reforging your blades. Well, what are you really doing? You're reforging your path, right?

You're deciding what kind of life you want to live and who you want to live it with and who you want to try to help. and who you're going to like allow to try to help you, maybe just as importantly. And the fact that this is a character who can embody that and fight for ideals without having to be beholden by the dogma that is often wrapped up around those ideals, like rewatching these, I kept thinking again about Mando and all of our conversations in season three

about the way and how like, let's, let's break away from the parts of this that we don't need to be bound by and still on. honor the heart of it that is actually beautiful and how Asoka has unlocked that inside of the galaxy far, far away in a way like very few characters have been able to. And like the way that I think this moment in the scene is so heart-wrenching. Everything that you, everything you said about Asoka is so true and so beautiful and so sad. And then we have the other side of it with Anakin. Revisiting the final arc of season seven when he realizes,

that he's going to see her again when they see that when they when when there's the initial hollow exchange and he can barely like choke out her name and then he realizes he's going to see her in person and he and Obi-1 are readying for her arrival and he

says it all makes sense now and Obi-1 asked him what and he says if Asoka hadn't left the order this is from Old Friends Not Forgotten the ninth episode of season seven if Asoka hadn't left the order she wouldn't have been where she needed to be and Obi-1 says that's one way to look at it

I suppose, and Anakin turns to him, moves his body to block Obi-1, to stop him still, and says that's the only way to look at it, because he has to believe that. It's the only way he can find peace and comfort in the choice that she made. And I think the thing that is, like, so rich and layered and varied about this is that, I completely agree with what you said earlier. We will not be blaming Osoka for what happened to Anakin, but we do believe that if she had been there by his side, maybe things would have been different

because of the depth of their understanding, which is why I love that, that I know, I understand wanting to walk away from the order. I know moment in line so much because it is so deeply tragic. The decision to walk away from the Jedi order was the right thing for Asoka,

and that is true. The impact it had on Anakin does not actually change that. And I love that. I love that both of those things are true and real. And I like thinking about because Star Wars is so often about

flashy lightsaber fights and new shiny ships and learning about some a new place and new planet and new culture and new custom. And I love all of those parts of it. At the beginning of this, at the origin,

this is George Lucas's desire to tell the tragedy of Anakin Skywalker and Star Wars returns time and time and time again to tragedy. And what happened between Asoka and Anakin is tragic. It is. And it should have a tragic bearing on the rest of her life. It should weigh on her the way that it has. But the fact that it weighs on her without her saying, I shouldn't have left. I should have stayed. I made a mistake. This isn't actually one of the mistakes that she made, like you said earlier, right? Like this was the thing that was right for her and for her growth and evolution,

and it had an impact on other people. And what bearing does that have then on how she assesses the other choices that she makes and the way that those choices impact the people around her? What's so interesting about the Asoka series is that if we track the actual timeline of Asoka, we've spent very little time with her after she learned for certain that Anakin Skywalker is Darth Vader, right?

Right. And that was an unresolved conflict. because Ezra pulled her out of it. Right. So Ezra pulls her out of it. She goes back. She lives a couple years, but we're not spending time with her. She shows up at the end of Rebels and the epilogue.

We see her in live action in these two episodes. But she's not really... I don't know for certain that she doesn't think that it was a mistake to leave. Like, we don't know. And hopefully the show will give us time for her to talk about those things. because that's not really been the subject of her live action appearances so far. We're very Grogu focused, of course. Nothing wrong with that.

I agree. That's why I was saying earlier, like, I'm so curious to see this embrace of some aspect of Jedi Dome without necessarily having to go to the place where she says, I shouldn't have walked away. I think it's going to be more compelling and more satisfying if they can thread that needle, you know, where she is like embracing some of it without just saying. this, like, defining thing in my life, I shouldn't have done it because of someone else. Well, and I think that this is something we've talked about,

well, separately and also together, I think, in our years and years covering Game of Thrones, that something that George R. Martin returns to over and over again is this idea of, like, the most honorable characters are often operating outside of the institution that, you know, is supposed to teach us honor, you know? And so when you watch two of our favorite characters like Jamie and Brian operate outside, you know,

you know, Jamie finds his most honorable self when he is kicked out of the Kings Guard, you know, and like Brian is, you know, we love that Brian is made into a knight, but like she is extremely honorable outside of the institution of knighthood. And so this idea of having to find your ideals, your honor, your beliefs, as someone who has been cast out and then chosen to leave the institution that is supposed to put down those paving stones for you, that is just such a rich text of what have you,

what have you decided is right and wrong outside of the confines of the institution that you came from. Like when she's showing Dinn the school, it feels in that moment like her faith is being restored stone by stone, even though the reason Dinn is there is to see Grogu because she didn't feel

that she could train him. And like both of those things are true, that she looks at that school and believes that there's something possible in the future and that it's not a future she wants to directly be a part of, at least in that moment right there. Right.

Great character. So, Catano. Should we spend seven weeks with her? I mean, I'm thrilled to get two episodes that wants to start with the real bang. I wish that the seven already sounds short. Wish we could do this forever. Same. Usually I wait until the mid-season point to be like,

oh, it's almost over, but I'm doing it before it even starts. As soon as the credits rolled on episode two when we saw it a couple days ago, we were both like, oh, there's only six less. Sad. I know. I wanted to last forever. Can't wait for the season. Can't wait to talk about it with you.

Anything else before we go? I think we really, really did it. I love when we agree on what is important. I love our taxonomy of this character. And I'm so excited about our feed. As far, baby. I know. We will be back right here on this feed

at the end of the week on Friday with our deep dive into the two-part to SoulCro premiere. So find us here. Follow the feed. Give us those five stars. Head over to Ring Reverse on Wednesday for the Midnight Boys Instoring Action to the two-part premiere. Thank you.

It's time for thank yous. Thank you to all of you who have followed and listened already, of course. Thank you to our favorite force wielders. Today, that's Carlos Chiroboga, who is here with us producing this episode. Thank you, Carlos. You're wonderful. Stringer from Sweden. Literally off of a jet from Sweden.

To produce his episode. Arjana Ramca Paul. for his additional production work on this episode, also returning from Sweden. Jomea Denneran, state side for his work on the social media for this episode. Until next time, remember,

we have seen what such feelings can do to a fully trained Jedi Knight to the best of us. We will not start this podcast down that pack.