House of R - ‘The Vampire Lestat’ Episode 4 Deep Dive

Episode Date: June 30, 2026

Mal and Jo dive deep into ‘The Vampire Lestat’ Episode 4! They discuss Lestat’s shower of blood, Armand’s attempts to apologize to Daniel, Louis’s discussions with Regina, and more!(00:00) Intro(04:20) Opening Snapshot(16:01) Hey, Big Bus! A.k.a., the Marginal Mystery Tour(33:56) Sloppy thirds for the Vampire Bourdain(57:00) Devil’s Minion(01:00:57) Armand takes the 12 steps to the blood shower(01:02:29) “Big Boss”(01:06:02) Louis and Regina—men will do anything other than go to therapy(01:11:22) An assassination attempt and a record deal(01:19:04) Book spoilers!Explore the exclusive collection at ⁠Target.com⁠Hosts: Joanna Robinson and Mallory RubinProducers: Carlos Chiriboga and Scott LeeStudio Production: Jacob CornettSocial: Jomi AdeniranAdditional Production Support: Arjuna Ramgopowell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, welcome back to House of R. I'm Joina Robinson. That's Mallory Rubin. Our pod never stops for gas. We run on bots and abandonment. It's the vampire list at. Are you excited, Mallory? I can't wait. I almost texted you in a Gabriela slash Sophia-esque capacity. You made a terrible mistake. This tiki bar is full of wonders. But I thought, don't burn pod. You know, save it for the pod. So now here we are, and I've saved it for the pod. You have. But actually, I would like to share it with you. But actually I would like, okay, and then I'm going to do the right after this.

But I do, I want to go to a tiki bar here in Los Angeles. Let's do it. I would like some recommendations from the bad babies. So hobbits and dragons and g-mil.com for your Los Angeles tiki bar recommendations because we have like some fun vampire themed drinks we're supposed to get this month. Okay. All of that. Yes.

Right after this. This episode of House of R is presented to you by Target. For 30 years, Pokemon has shown that adventures of better together, and Target is calling all trainers to the celebration. That's because there's something for every era of fan in the Pokemon and Target limited time collection. Thought you found them all after the first drop? Think again. Drop two just landed, featuring life-size Pokemon puzzles and an instant print digital camera. The entire collection is in store and online, so check it out now.

Explore now at Target.com. Today's pod is Vampire Lestat, season three, episode four, Devil's Road, because I suppose Warchester didn't roll off the tongue. Just an incredible moment. Absolutely wonderful. That was like maybe my hardest laugh of the episode. I thought that the ridiculous from Lestat was iconic. And it is, you know, it's on a name.

Worcester. Worcester. My parents lived in Worcester for a hot second there while they were still married, so a long time ago. And very briefly. Program reminders. Yes. Vampilist out every week. We only have three more episodes left.

Very sad. Sheesh. But here we go. We're barreling towards the end of the tour. Yeah. House the Dragon, though. That's right. I mean, we're only two episodes into this season of House of the Dragon.

We've got a lot more coming. I sure do. Talk the Thrones for episode two. Already exists in your feed. You can find that. That happened on Sunday night. And then tomorrow is our deep dive. Yes.

Will it be as unhinged as last week's deep? I hope so. One can only hope and dream. I hope so. I had a great time. I had the best time. Let's try to match that energy. Okay.

Mallory. How can folks get all of their dragon and vampire needs from us? Follow the pod. Why not? That's it. That's all you have to do. Follow the pod on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast, but you can watch full video episodes of House of R and the Midnight Boys.

Poo! On Spotify. You can also watch full video episodes on the Ringervverse YouTube. channel, so follow along there as well. While you're at it, follow us on social. We have new-ish. I don't know when we have to retire new. This is always something we, sometimes we keep new in the mix for a year and a half. We'll see what feels right. Newish, social handles. At House of our pod on Instagram and TikTok, we've got breakouts from the pods, we have fun photos, we have graphics, we have all sorts of things going on. Some memes. Social first stuff. That's right.

Dragon Math can only be found on our socials. That's right. A little beautiful mind. action with the That's great. It's a great, ad from Joan. Wonderful stuff. All right. And then Hobbits and Dragons

email at Gmail.com. As we already mentioned, Tiki bars or anything else you have in store for us. That's right. Spoiler warning. Today's podcast will be informed by our knowledge

of the books, the vampire list at and the queen of the dam, not to mention an interview with the vampire. But no book direct spoilers until the very end. We will have a book spoiler section with a sound that will delight and titillate you but not give you a

cardiac event. Right. Yes. And I have no book knowledge, so it's a delight and titillate, but not give me a cardiac event experience for me as well. I can't wait. Let's go now to our opening snapshot. Let's do it. Episode four, Devil's Road, Mallory Rubin. Did you like this episode of television? I did. I'm having a great time with the season. I think episode three was still the high bar. That was just exquisite. But we're keeping the momentum going in a way that I'm excited by. I feel like there's a lot of really intriguing mid-season, oh, we can feel we're moving toward the next major event kind of stuff happening in this episode. But as is so often the case with interview of the vampire into the vampire list at, the intrigue, the action, the Harbingers of Doom are all

entwined with these lovely character beats. The humor continues to mix with the horror in a way that I just find really expert and astonishing. I have some questions for you. about blood shower hygiene that I don't know when it's the right time in the pod to get into that. You let me know. We can do it right now if you want. Okay, here's my question. Yeah. Obviously, very memorable scene.

Very effective and memorable sequence. I have basically no notes on that front. Except you have a few notes. I have questions. Yeah. Okay. So the blood shower comes down. We are in, I'd say never has a character on television been such an effective audience avatar as Armand in that moment.

We are. Speaking of the generous endowment and just doing this. We are Armand. Our mod is us. Correct. Wonderful. It's nice to feel seen known and understood. Yeah.

Representation matters. Yeah. Great stuff. Okay. The blood shower comes down and then there is a very brief period of cleansing with water. A rinse off. A spritz. Yeah.

No soap. No, and he doesn't even get all the blood. Does he not reek of blood? Like, part of what I understand in my heart and soul, despite never having inhabited the same physical space as Lestat, to be true, is that he smells like cinnamon and cotton candy and bubblegum and sandalwood and whatever smells good to you. I just feel like he probably smells delicious to everyone. Oh, this is some like Harry Potter situation where it's like whatever your most favorite

smell, that's what he smells like. Exactly. Could be that. I think he smells like pachuli, bloody pre-cum, yelang, y'ang, you know. Yeah, so does he just smell like iron and like metal? I would not be surprised if he constantly kind of smells a little rusty. Yeah, okay. It's tough, tough to know. We did get an email from a list of.

I didn't include it, but they were sharing some anecdote from the T-Rex. The band T-Rex has been referred to a couple times. Yes, to your delight. It's my delight. Mark Boland is the lead singer of that band. He said there's an anecdote from Mark Boland that like people were so excited by the T-Rex experience Yeah. That they would just like piss themselves in the audience.

Oh, no. And the T-Rex shows just, like, smelled a piss. Like, they didn't want to leave to go to the bathroom, so they just, like, peeed themselves, or they were too excited. Or, uh... Nah, this is not good. You know, like, not on the right drugs or, like, whatever the case may be. I don't know. But, like, the...

And so our listener was like, what do you think the vampire list at shows smell like? That mix of, like, bloody pre-cum plus sweat, plus whatever. My, and welcome to our podcast. But like, thanks for being here with us. My thing after the shower is like, why I haven't bothered with the rinse? Because he does the rinse off, but he doesn't even like get, like, there's so blood, like watery blood on his back. And that's just going to like, but then, and then when he gets on stage to do his big boss performance with pig tails and the incredible makeup, there's like blood crust on his neck. Well, it probably mixes oddly with the glitter.

Sure. You know? Wow. That glitter never comes out. I'll tell you that much right now. Especially not if it's canked in blood. Cursed it in blood. Yeah.

Sam Reed gave an anecdote about the blood shower. He said when they were first showing him what it would be like, they put like a test dummy underneath. And they're like, this is what it'll look like. And he was like, that dummy was like sandblasted with blood. And I was just like, I can't perform a scene with this much. The dialogue. blood like pouring like shooting down on me. So he's like they turned off the outer ring and it was just like the center.

So he could do that. That's why he's doing that. Yeah. Yeah. Do the like around the blood thing. It worked. Yeah. It did. But I just like I would love to see the behind the scenes footage of that of that like test dummy just getting like absolutely blasted by blood in the blood shower.

Incredible stuff. I wonder if there was any commentary on whether the dummy had a generous endowment or if that left, it was left unremarked upon. I think on the tour bus hygiene front, also feels worth noting here in the opening snapshot where we set the stage and hit the real top level highlights that one of the funniest moments in the history of television

was when he walked by one of the... The cameraman. And he's like, shit and die. Which in an open-air shared tour bus experience, I think is appropriate feedback. I don't know that I've ever noticed that there was just a toilet right there. A shit and die.

Like the showers in the middle of the room, we know that. We've seen many people show. hour in there. But there's a toilet just right there in the middle of the room with no, you know, and the cameraman's like, oh, oops. I mean, I feel like he had started the process. And it just sort of like that point. Yep. Back up or like whatever in fear of Lestat. I don't know. A lot of toilet bowl action this episode, too, because of the cocaine, you know. And we got a good sense of the geography

of the bus. I had a better feel for the floor plan. Oh, the upstairs. The upstairs. That was helpful. Made me feel like I was touring London. But by watching Lestat tell people not to take shits and then beating of a double-decker bus situation. Got it. Love it. All right, quick corrections. I also love this episode. I also think season three was sort of the high watermark so far this season. But something that I love about the show

and, you know, not everyone is loving this, but I love about the show is like, again, I can't get the closed captionings to work on my screeners, which is fine. But it really just means that it takes me like hours to watch this show because I just like pause to write things down and go back and re-listen and I'm like, it's Daniel

Malloy, shouting out the names of Pulitzer surprised when a journalist says he's bowling? Is that what's happening right now? Yeah. But the, it's just going so quickly. There's so much. It's so dense in a way that I really love, because it just feels like a treasure trove for me to, to, like, root through like a truffle pig. But like, sorry, that's a Cape Fear reference. But I think that something I was thinking about, you know, this episode is credited to Jonathan. Chiniserowitz, maybe, something like that. Anyway, probably really butchered that. But there is just a like a patter, a patois to like every single episode that reminds me of something like Buffy the Vampire Slayer

where Jaws, Sweden used to give every episode like a top pass, right? We're just sort of like the rhythm of the show and the jokes per minute and all that sort of stuff came from like one singular mind. And I have to wonder if like Rollin Jones like does a similar thing. thing where like the humor is so singular and so fast and so sharp that it really feels like it, I don't want to take rob credit from anyone else in the writing staff and I believe in large and robust writers' rooms, but it really does feel like one person's voice is shining through in these episodes. And it's like one of my favorite voices in television.

It really works for me. Yeah. And I also think it's one of the ways where in a television adaptation that is distinct and singular, it also feels very much like novelesque, right? Where, like, an author is giving you a version of the universe. And I agree. Like, you know, the episodes vary certainly, but there is a clarity of tone and a cohesion episode to episode in like the pace and the clip.

Yeah. I was hearing you say that, it makes me think of the one of the Buffy anecdotes you shared. God, I can't remember. It would have been season three or season four because it was one of the more recent Buffy Pods, but about how like some character at some point got a line, like a Xanderline. Yeah, for Willow. Yeah. You can't have, like, that's

a Xanderline, right? You can't just like give a Xanderline to Willow because Willow doesn't have a line in this scene. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like Lestat's lines are unmistakably Lestat's lines. Louie's lines. Louie's lines. It's actually one of the interesting things about being in a place now with this like Regina. I was going to say the exact same thing. Where you're like,

we, I'm so in a really good, satisfying fun way as if you are clearly intentionally destabilized and disoriented by this because there are moments for us, for Louis, where you are just like enraptured and deceive yourself into thinking, or maybe you're like, should my theory brain be going? Like, am I with Claudia? And then there are moments where you're pulled out of that very intentionally. And that's been, that's been quite fun. I thought that this was one of the better Daniel showcases on this front to this episode for just giving, I mean, the, the bowling scene was very fun and everything. But like the, um,

taking over the steps from Armand. The pitch in Bogosian's voice, the rage and the real feeling of, like, betrayal and terror, you know, that Daniel feels in that moment, but also with that kind of, like, for Daniel, it's something that can never really, it feels like be stifled for too long, even in his moments of uncertainty, which is, like, I'm going to tell you why I know best, you know? It just, yeah, it was captured so effectively in that sequence. So I'm excited about that's a stretch of the story. Similarly, having Armand here, you know. Like, I just, I really missed him and I loved having him here. Quick corrections department slash info department. The CN Tower Collapse that happened in last week's episode was apparently only in Lestat's mind per Rollin Jones.

And we had listeners point out that like the tower collapses, then later you see Lestat drive by it and it's like back up and intact. So this was sort of like a psychic reflection of the turbulence of Lestat's mind and not something that like a big bad vampire accomplish something like that. We had been floating some theories. I don't know that I fully grasp that, but I'll be interested to see if that plays out in other landmark locations. Right.

You know, is Lestat bringing other skyscrapers toppling? I don't know. Interesting. I thought that was kind of strange and interesting. Especially in a show where we're moving in and out of time so much. And sometimes just cutting very quickly to flashes from other periods on a given timeline. Like the harbor flashes that happen in this episode. A very like important moment for Listat that we don't understand what's happening until we see the moment.

And last not least, you might have already tracked this. But like, fun fact, Lestat says something different after the opening credit song every week. Last week is the first week I noticed him saying like, well, that was a piece of shit or something like that about the song. And I was like, oh, has he been saying that every week? And I just missed it. But no, he says something different every week. And this week he said, did you hear that Armand at the end of the opening credit song? So something to track.

Love it. Let's go now to our deepish dive. I'm calling this section, Hey, Big Bus, aka the Marginal Mystery Tour. We're going to do just like kind of all the bus tour stuff here. as much as much as we can, right? So we get this like up, you know, this is called the Devil's Road. We get this upside down shot of the freeway, very reminiscent of the immortal universe, upside down New Orleans, like opening that that we had in seasons one and two.

Did it make you think of Agatha, our beloved Agatha and the Witch's Road as well, especially paired with music and just the idea of kind of like what is known and unknown and what is a trial and what is a test? I think you know I'm always thinking about witches. I'm always thinking about witches. Which stuff go, would you say? Always. We get a shot of both a Joey Chestnut, who is a competitive eater who was mentioned earlier in the season, and an Elon Musk bobblehead. Yeah. An Elon Musk bobblehead is like one of the worst bobbleheads I could possibly contemplate. What's the worst bobblehead that you can think of? Oh, God. Is it a sports figure that you hate? Like an enemy of thine oriels or ravens or something like that?

In terms of what would really upset me to be like around in a contained space every. day, it would probably be a bobblehead of the camera guy from a documentary crew taking a shit in an open space. That would be pretty upsetting. Just like his ass wobbling over the bull. Elon's a good candidate for... It's really hard to top Elon as far as. The Joey Chestnut one is so funny. The fact that that's go up multiple times, this season is incredible.

Any thoughts? We get sort of like a montage of like this is what it's like to be a rock band on the road. A montage. Love that tough cookie has a groupie in her lap and stuff like that. Wonderful. Want to talk about Salaman. I always want to talk about anything that's going on in this hedonistic sort of montage we get. This is a good example. It's a visual version of what you were talking about with like the density in a great way of the show where like you're listening, you're watching.

You could rewind and rewatch the opening, I don't know, like four-ish minutes of the show and spend three hours just trying to parse every detail, both in an auditory and visual capacity. Yeah. And it's really fun to go back and do that. And to think, like, are these, what is being paired intentionally when we get a Lestat voiceover with what we're seeing, there is a certain aspect of it. We're just giving yourself over to Christine snorting Coke off of like the neck of a prone man pinned beneath her with a condom, like, wrapped around his ear. It's like a used condom. Yeah. Any level that you choose to watch the show on is probably going to be rewarding.

I also quite enjoy it. Let's get the old guy to watch you choke. me? Yeah. This was a great Christine episode. Well, I'm concerned. Oh, I think she's fine. I hope so. She was just like chewing people out while they were like sloshing her wounds. Yeah, she just had some feedback on the bullet care. On the bullet wound care. I was just like, I just like being a ball buster to not the bitter end. I think she's fine. I hope so. I sure hope so. I'm not ready to say goodbye. She didn't seem okay. Yeah. More annoyed. Yeah, more irritated than anything else. Lestat pronunciation watch

Please rank these for me Chappadole That was great A return of a classic Red Meat for Reddiet Still my favorite And Worchester, Massachusetts

Is it Redite for you? That one has yet to be topped Because I think it is just There's something about it That just absolutely kills me in a way I can't quite explain I think it's the way that he's trying To take something like Reddit

and make it feel very like posh. Targe. Exactly. Exactly. So that just kills me. I love it. I think the fact that we went from the Worcester pronunciation lesson into his ridiculous into receiving the text update from Sophie about, oh, look, she's getting her twat-lazared.

That overall stretch was tough to top. And the way she typed it was, I'm having my lawn scorched. And he knew what that meant. He did. He's like, I've received this kind of... They are very close. They are. Very close.

I think red meat for reddete. Incredible. Just making it like sort of like a rhyming couplet makes it even better. All right. The Talamazka Bot Army, Lestat gives this direct address to whomever is listening to the failures. And it's once again a nod to how obscenely rich this person might be, right? Like we got the gilded bathtub reference earlier. Right.

And like, obviously, if you won this bidding war, you have a ton of money to spend. But he said, should your privilege per strings become interested in pursuing the actual truth of our recent apocalyptic adversities? Yeah. Ominous. Uh-huh. Look no further than that watchful order of the river of discreet money flowing in dark direction.

So the Talomasca using their money to boost engagement with the band. Any theories as to – I don't know the answer to this. Yeah, I was going to ask you what you thought this was about. a foundational like book information I have. But I would guess with this sort of great conversion, like it seems like it's a line with what Gabriella's intention is, which is like the more Lestat sings and the more his messages spread via song. Yeah. And now per the end of the episode, hopefully an album. That's right. In the studio at last. Yeah. The more, Magnus will be so pleased. the more the vampires of the world will get encouraged to bite and make more.

So is that a Talamazka pro great conversion? Like, what's going on there? Does that feel right to you? Does that make sense? Not really. They seem to like be trying to keep like a lid on all the vampire activity, right? Yeah. I don't know.

The idea of them, yeah, fueling the bots and spreading the word and reach. And it is interesting to see just the kind of like, obviously the voices in that stretch with Lestat and Gabrielle at the end, hear the voices, and the way we can track the swing, right? Right. In the beginning of the season. Yeah, it's like you shouldn't be doing this. And even again, to have like the great laws invoked directly in this episode and then

see, okay, we have Lestat, we have Llewe, we have our direct touch points for like, fuck your rules. Like, I'll do what I want. It's been a really long time. This is pretty outmoded. But to see that wider effect where like the voices were saying, don't do this, it's wrong. You're appareling us into. you have allowed us to like tap into something about our of empiric nature that feels right.

Gabriela is directly trying to wield Lestat that scalpel, right? Point him to cut the path that she wants. So we should be concerned. I thought the cuts from him looking at his like a bullet wound in his hand into the flashes at the lake and connecting these. Because we had flashback to see these like moments about the way that Gabriella talks about evil. Right. So everything about Gabriella and her intention and wanting to spread evil and wanting to fuel the great conversion feels clear. The Talamaskas involvement. Motivation for swelling the ranks is something that I think less of a good read on at this point. I don't understand it at all. Especially because it seemed like when Ragland was sending. And to be clear, I don't know that we should feel certain that Raglan's goals are aligned with the telemaskas. At large. Yeah.

gold, you know, but like Raglan is the one who sends Louis after Bruce and he was sort of talking about indiscriminate, you know, turning of people and stuff like that. So here's a quote from season one the first time the idea of the Great Conversion, which to be clear, is a show idea, not a book idea. Sort of related to some book ideas, but there's nowhere in Anne Rice's books does the phrase the great conversion occur. But this is Louie talking about the state of vampirism in season one to Daniel. He says, just the opposite. Most of them are slaves to the blood, exhausted from decades, centuries of hiding, giddy to increase their numbers. Pandemic, the unraveling of geopolitical foundations.

One of them, a brute Madagascar, called it the Great Conversion. So, like, this idea of, like, vampires tired of hiding. And this goes back, you know, obviously in this episode, Armand's like, hey, Lestat, shut the fuck up. Yeah. Because you're spurring this on. Right. And Armand's agenda has always been, let's keep it under wraps.

You know what I mean? That was his whole thing in Paris, which is why he, like, kidnapped Niki in the first place. Right. Is that, like, Lestat was being too obvious. And he's like, we got to hide underground. And Lestat has always been like, why should we hide ourselves when we are such beautiful godlike creatures? You know? Yeah.

Armand also a god in this episode. So. Quite. I've got some questions about Alex. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Shout out a cablostat. When this officer and his dog Delilah board the truck, the bus,

incredible montage of them trying to like, can I eat this much cocaine and then just like dumping it down his throat anyway. They got rid of so much cocaine and there was still a giant bowl of cocaine on the table. It's just like extraordinary. Made me think of Greg and succession, you know. I hope you don't die. It's like, that's a lot. a cook. That's a lot of cook. This is what Lestat says, the body cam, democracy's compact mirror,

incredible line. And then you need your expansive interpretation of the Fourth Amendment to do your job properly. I just, I really loved this exchange. I thought it was incredible. The like dusting of the cocaine on the officer's face. The like mention of like, if you took my blood, if you tested my blood, it would be weird. Yes. Your department would be under scrutiny, you know, like, blah, blah. So like Lestat sends him a way for their own self-interest. And Christine being like, get the body cam, like, for their own self-interest, but also, like, you know, he doesn't just, like, kill him. Right.

He just sort of, like, sends him away. He's like, you should take more time off. You should care about your home life. 35-hour work week. You know, so say we all. It's cocaine. We're a rock band, and we needed to do our job properly. Incredible.

He said it's so just, like, matter if we need it to do our job. And I loved to write on the, the, right before that, because he's like, it's cocaine. And Christine's like, whoa. Yeah. Allow me to do my job and protect us. And for basically two and a half seconds, he plays the good boy. Yeah. And they're just like, no, it's actually just cocaine.

And we knew it needed to do our jobs properly. And the way that they get to like, it's fun now in the heels of the band a couple episodes in, understanding the fuller truth, to watch the way they watch him. And to like think about how they are processing this. I think especially because it feels like something probably pretty bad is happening with Alex. and then you think of like Larry is not just his bandmate but his brother. Then you have something like Lestat observing in this stretch of this episode. It was like the first time T.C. thought maybe that could be a vampire.

And if that isn't like a perfect encapsulation of the really organic great conversion effect, people are watching Lestat behave as a vampire and saying that seems fun. Yeah. T.C. would be a great vampire. Fantastic. I love inside of this episode. We've been talking about sort of the evolution of their sound, the evolution of their music, watching inspirations for certain songs. The way this episode opens with Salamander and T.C. Pitching this song, Big Bus, about the tour bus. A horrible song.

Styrical. That Lestat is giving like complex musical notes that I don't understand because I'm not a musician on. But like this sort of like very cheerleader cunty sort of like flipping their ponytail of. vibe that they're trying to go for, this song turns into Big Boss, the song he sings for. So Big Bus becomes Big Boss. Right. But it just it reminded me of like

Jess McCannibut was talking about this when we did this sort of like preseason episode talking about the Beatles documentary Get Back and one of the great joys of that was watching them sort of like noodle over songs and like take a song you know and sort of like trying out various lyrics that all sound wrong

until they lock it on the eventual lyrics that we all have memorized because we know these Beatles songs, but hearing them and they're sort of like proto phase and you're like, oh no, what is this? What if that's how, what if that's the, you know, how something, the lyrics to something had stayed or whatever? So like watching Lestat take the shitty big bus and turn it into big boss, a song that I really liked. It's a banger. It's a banger. Great disc track. I'm sure that Arbond, as you just noted, really would for a thing to be kept on the DL.

He loved it. Loved being publicly revealed. Loved it. Not only in front of the assembled in the room, but as we know, that is now being distributed via bot to the masses. Daniel's filming. You know what I mean? One of the short, quick shots we get of Louis as he is, let's just say, it's stalking

Regina, which I'm excited to talk about today. Some concerning stuff from our guy, Louis. He's just like watching clips of little stat on his phone, which is obviously for their relationship wonderful. It's, you know, there's something kind of inescapable about. And, you know, the fact that, like, the record label stuff, Sony Warner, Forbody, who? And then this guy's like, I hadn't heard about you. I didn't know who you were three days ago.

Yeah. Right. That, of course, gave me, like, is the Talomasca engineering this vibes without question. But, like, you know, the band is, they're blowing up. Fourbody is interesting to me because I was like, is this, I don't know so little about the music industry that I'm like, is this real? Are the Bethany's a real band? Show us your tits. They do not appear to be, per my Googling.

But if I'm wrong, let me know. But I could not find a band called the Bethanies. But I kind of wish they existed. Sounds great to me. What do we want to say about Alex here or elsewhere? I'm concerned. Yeah. So do you feel like he's how Armand got on the bus?

Not that I suspect it's like very hard to get on that bus necessarily, but especially if you're Armand. But like... I mean, it's... Okay. So it feels like a few things are true at once right now, right? Armand is in a certain state, right? He is like, I think there is at least something genuine happening with this period of reflection. Yeah.

Right. It seems like certainly when he is saying to Daniel, I hurt you more than I've hurt. Like the thing I did to you is the worst I've done, whether or not that's true. It's obviously open for debate. But, and the love that I felt that was distracting me was not for Louis. It's for you. It feels like everything that's happening there is, is. genuine. Yeah, and Asad, the actor has said as much, which is fascinating. Very interesting to watch.

That, I think what has always been fun about Armand, and what was particularly fun in the middle and back half of season two, is watching the way, and, you know, all of these characters are different and unique, but they have, like, this through line, right? And it's the thing we've been talking about this whole season and why the idea of, like, rock star songwriter, public figure who is, like, trying to correct the record is so perfect as, like, a vessel to explore these ideas. They all have some genuine truth that they're carrying, and they all are trying to package that in the way that suits their means and their ends, right? So I think that, like, when we watch Armand with Daniel and San Francisco, is that what makes you fascinating. Obviously, something stuck from that exchange and a seed was planted that they bloomed. But, like, he has felt often wronged, cast aside, diminished. Yeah. And I think that those feelings of inad. and fear and like that sense of being mistreated are are legit then what he does with those

feelings is often awful right and that is also true and I don't think it's like an accident that we were reminded yet again in this episode that the theater was a trial that resulted in actual death and that he was not only complicit in it but a puppet master of it right the guiding hand yes so I don't think it's the place. So like, I don't think it's, it is impossible. I think whether Armand is finding something actually cathartic and therapeutic and healing about the process of working through the steps, whether he actually is like I am an addict, I should take that seriously. Seems entirely plausible to me that that's true. It is implausible to me that he wound up in a room with one of Lestat's bandmates

accidentally, obviously, right? So it's also true that he's seeking out that proximity to Alex. Contingencies. And that relationship with Alex for a reason. And now, Alex, is not just like, you're in my, the circle, we're in group together, but he's like, you're not just my sponsor, I don't use that word, telling Larry his brother, he's a god. So Armand has an instant hold on him. Yeah. And the way he's looking at him when he's on stage performing and stuff like that. Is it to have a way to compromise the band?

Is it just about proximity gained and access to Lestat? Yeah, I don't know. Listen, one of my favorite sort of like meme templates. So the scene of Daniel and Armand in the bowling alley was like running around all my socials last night. Fun. And on like as soon as Saturday night when it like dropped on AMC Plus and poose. And I just get served a lot of. And every vampire stuff.

But one of my favorite meme responses to like anything is, oh, shit. sure. Blame the guy whose fault it is. You know? They're just like all these Armand defenders, but that was like one of my favorite. Oh, sure. Blame the guy who's fault of this is. All right. Speaking of Daniel.

Yeah. Sloppy thirds for the vampire Bourdain. Just amazing. It is uncanny. I mean, yeah. The way the Begoshin, especially as Daniel, like, reminds us of Anthony Bourdain, sure. It's really fun to call that out. I also think Sloppy Thurbs is like an incredible phrase to like just slam it.

all together, just to be, you know, the mind that just comes up with sloppy thurs for the vampire Bourdain and the way that Lestat stares down the documentary camera when he says at the vampire boardane, like, is just really, really funny. Delicious. Delicious. All right, the ghost of Nikki or the muse Nikki, if you prefer, sticks around in this episode. How is that concept working for you here to have Nikki haunting this episode? I thought it was effectively deployed here, you know, sort of in little, little bursts,

not like, you know, massive giant sequences in part because we have a lot of LaSat-Gabriela flashback work to do in this episode, much of which will take place naked and in bed. Tough. Looking forward to discussing that shortly. Tough. Not a fan. You were on my mind. Was I? You were, as you so often are when we watch relatives fuck each other on the television shows that we...

Incess. It's Intest summer, baby. But the kind of like inversion of a great love, not your first love concept here. How do you interpret that? So, because Lestat is saying in this stretch, right? He first of all, right away, we're like just, he's in a period of active lies. Yes. In this stretch because he's like, I welcome it.

Why let the past stay in the past? That is obviously not true in terms of how he is processing this or struggling to process it. And then the comparison he makes between Gabri's. And Riella and Nikki also objectively, we know a lie, right? And we know this in a lot of ways. We know it because she's around now. I am curious, by the way, like, when Daniel is going to piece this together because it feels like Pulitzer Prize winning journalists, like can't be far away. He's like, why don't you, why aren't you just reaching out with your mind, right?

Like he's asking questions that are leading him, I think, toward not necessarily. It might be harder for him to piece together the mother. This is, oh, is this your mother who you're pretending didn't take to vampirism and is dead? but, like, he should be pretty close to figuring out that Lestat is her maker, I think. Ron and Farrow already would have figured it out. Clan Greenwald already would have figured it out. Daniel, we know you've got some other stuff you're working through, but let's go, man. So, you know, he compares her to Nikki, right?

And he's like, she took like Nikki did, meaning poorly. Couldn't handle this, right? He's like, she wouldn't feed. I had to carry her to coffin, et cetera, et cetera. She wouldn't talk, and then we get Gabrielle just like yada, yada, yada in the carriage, right? relishing, as she still does to this day, every aspect of this heightened godlike, I get to decide. I'd like it to be Dante's Inferno, but not just priests talking about it. Let's actually bring hell to Earth, right?

She's loving it. Mother's throttling babies. She can't wait. So the idea that then right on the heels of that, Nikki's, the ghost muse, Nikki, is like a great love, not your first love. and the kind of continued melding of the Nikki Gabriela effect on him in these formative years. So when LaSat was talking about Nikki in last week's episode, he said, my first love, not a great love. That's how he described Nikki.

Tough for Ghost Nikki means Nikki to absorb that. So is he saying that like a great love, a great love, not your first love, saying that like Gabriela is Lestat's great love, but not his first love being Nikki? Or is he saying, I was a great love. great love, but it wasn't your first love because your first love was actually your mom, and that's gross. I think that? Yeah. So it felt to me. Yeah. Because the wolf wound tending

scene comes up in this episode where he's like, we're a mother and son, but also. Yeah, you had your hand on my inner thigh, and I liked it. I liked it. I thought Nikki, like, painting with his stump later was also. He wrote Marius. Yeah. There were like three or four Marius references in this, or direct mentions in this episode, so.

Yeah, I would say notable. Ospicious. Okay. How is Daniel's demeanor here post humiliation in episode three for you? Like, you know, he's just falling right back into this interview-interviewy situation. He's like, let's see how much we can blame on dear old mom, you know, all this sort of stuff like that. Yeah. But he is also bowling by himself and shouting the name.

I just find this like solo bowling. I've never tried it. Maybe it is like, I don't think so. Okay. It's a group activity in your mind. I think so because like, and maybe, maybe I love to hear from the bad babies who are like, I love a therapeutic solo bowl. But like I would go to a restaurant alone.

I would definitely go to the movies alone. I love to do that. There's a lot of things that like people feel weird about doing alone that I love to do alone. But like bowling. Just because you're like surrounded by like all these other people who are like in their groups on their teams. And you're just like, just me and my bowling ball and my pins. And then he's just shouting the name of other journalists. I'm like, what do you think you would shout, if you were to shout names out as you were sort of like, for a second, I was trying to connect a pattern because I was like, I was like, okay, this journalist has this many Pulitzer's.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Is he like saying, no, but is he like saying the number of pins he knocked over is this three-time Pulitzer prep, but I could not make it map. So that was incorrect. But it's just sort of like he's calling out other journalists names. Are you calling out podcaster names? Yeah, well, so like, are these, what's the vibe? I don't know.

Are these heroes? Are these idols? Competitors? Or are they people you're like, come on? Yeah. It's us. We're like, we're chasing each other. We're in a hunt.

Yeah. Like, you know, I think that would probably impact my choice. If I were shouting heroes, I'd probably just shout a bunch of the like sports writers who I used to, you know, worship who made me want to get into sports journalism in the first place. I'd be bowling. I'd probably throw a gutter ball. Now, I'm from Maryland. You have to remember. Duckpin bowling.

What's that? The small ball? Maryland's a duck pin bowling state. Duck pin? Duck pin bowling? Yeah. Okay. So you have like the small ball almost like I mean, I don't know with the comparative exact circumference and weight, but almost like more of like a like a shot put ball.

But a little bit. And then, yeah, and you, and they're smaller pins. So you can like hold it all in your hand. You don't have the finger holes. But you could also do the regular bowling. Are they like, uh, I think I know what pin bowling. So it's just like pin bowling. Like are the pins like more?

More straight up and down. What Skittles of the candy? Hold on. Is Skittles of bowling type? Not familiar. Not familiar. So I would be duck pin bowling. And if I were shouting hero names, I would shout like Thomas Boswell.

Gary Smith. You know, I would do that, probably. What about you? Oh, Skittles is a long game involving pins from which modern bowling is descended. I think it's a UK thing. Did they name the candy after that? Probably. I can't imagine that it's a coincidence.

As far as I know you do not taste the rainbow when you play this game, but who's to say? I feel like I would scream out the name of, like, musical composers. I'd be like, Sonheim. That's what you're chasing. Yeah. Hammerstein. That's the North Star. I love it.

I thought that Daniel weirdly... Loader low! Okay, sorry. I liked Daniel in a bowling alley alone. It felt so weird in a way that felt right. Like, Daniel's so weird. And I think that he... I would not find it necessarily credible if he went.

went to like a punching bag to take out his aggression. But I think he's got something he's working through. And so being able to hurl a heavy object. That he wished was ahead, maybe. Yeah, without consequence to try to get some of the feelings out. That felt right. And then the idea of that contrast, actually, like it's not a place you think of going solo. So, you know, he's very alone.

He's feeling extra alone when everybody is sucked out of the space that he's happening at a given moment. We didn't comment on this, but last week when he was, I think it's last week post interview humiliation, he just like attacks someone who's just like gnoshed on someone in an alleyway. Do you feel like that's the equivalent of like someone just like binge eating a pint of ice cream in front of an open fridge that he's just sort of like, I'm eating my feelings. I mean, maybe, but also like, you know, these vampires have to feed. Well, yeah. But like there was something quite sloppy and just sort of like, you know. Yeah, a little reckless about it.

Just like he's eating his feelings. Yeah. I don't consider it sloppy and unrefined to eat a pint of ice cream out of the freezer. As you know, I consider it my evening routine. I know you do, but you don't stand in front of the open freezer and do it. That's the added level of just sort of like. It is brought to me by my doting husband and I receive it under my fleece blanket on the couch and it's salmon. Beating you grapes and waving a palm from the front of you.

This is his version of that, definitely for sure. The Devil's Road. So that's the name of this episode. The Devil's Road is the name of the section of the book when Gabrielle and Lestat leave Paris. Nikki's still alive in the book. and seek out the deeper truths of vampirism, its origin and its history. That's why Marius Armin's maker

gets a couple mentions in this episode and the last episode when they were in the box and Gabriel's like, who's older than you? Your maker, Marius. You got it. You're really nailing it. Thank you.

Wow. Yeah, so like we get a bunch of Marius hints in this episode. But they're seeking in the book, they're seeking him, they're seeking his knowledge. So that's not sort of the stated intent of the show version. But that's what's happening in the book version.

From the book, quote, The Devil's Road gets mentioned a couple times by other vampires before this section of the book. But, quote, this comes from an older female vampire to Lestat and Gabriel. You were on the devil's road to a great adventure. What right have I to intervene and what the centuries have in store for you?

And then Lestat in his inner monologue is like, The Devil's Road. It was the first phrase from any of them that had rung a clarion in my soul. And then Gabrielle's like, Devil's Road, that's on sick. We should do that. Mother's on road trip. Adventure, let's do it. You want to talk about this night that they share at an inn on the Devil's Road?

This seems to be their first official sexual congress. That's not what I was going to say, sexual congress. But you said fuck and both are true. It's a mother and a son fucking. I don't think we need to be delicate about it. Be delicate about it. That's deeply fair. Oh, man.

Boy, this was quite something. I was thinking back to our discussion after the premiere when we witnessed them a couple. There is. In the bowels of the pleasure motel. The ballast of a pleasure motel. Just so. And, you know, then in obviously episode two, we moved on to the wolf, the wolf wound salve application and talking about, you know, what is, how much of this is the grooming and Gabriella's narcissism and that is all obviously, I think, present and undeniable. Right.

And then how much of this is genuine need on LaState's part and desire, right? And so we see, so when we first see them, they're at the table, right, they're taught, they're, they're talking. doing heartbeat math. This was kind of interesting, actually. Yeah. Like, Lestat. Training. Tutelage, like training his fledgling. That was interesting.

When no one trained him. Yes, exactly. And, like, the value of that guiding hand. And then obviously, as we'll see, how quickly his mother and fledgling ceases to value that, right? It's like, I don't need it. I'm a piece out. I'm gone. I've abandoned you in the night.

Really tough. The... Have you ever abandoned me while I'm sleeping under a boat? I promise to leave you a... a pendant and a wig at a minimum. That means it has to be the other way around. You're the one who is more likely to have a pendant in a wig. And I'm the one to be like, fuck.

Oh, no. At any given moment. Where's Joe? I slept in. Oh, no. Where's Joe? I will never leave you under a canoe or otherwise. Or otherwise.

Wow. It's a ride or die for life. Exactly. So they spot this guy at the bar. But this is after also there's the kind of like, you remind me of someone, you know, a local. A local has come up. One of the other I got.

Yeah. And she torments him telepathically and Lestad is like observing and watching this with interest because he can't hear it, right? But it can tell kind of what is happening. Then she sees this hot guy at the bar. It's a holy Saturday. I'm not sure if you've heard. Sharing a plaster of Jesus.

It's an incredible line from Daniel about that. Yeah. Great stuff. So, okay. They're fucking. But like what do you make? So we knew that Lestat was lying. when he was like relating this experience.

But the fact that he like is relating it as if it's something that he did. Uh-huh. Like what Gabriela is doing in this scene is something that he is telling Daniel he did. Yes. I was on the devil's road. I saw a guy with a plaster of Jesus and we had sex. Yes. So was he clutching Jesus while you sucked him off?

Good question, Daniel. Yeah. Asking the hard hitting follow-ups as a Pulitzer Prize winner would. Yeah. Exactly what Rod and Farrow would do, I think. So Lestat charges him. Okay, his mother is fucking this handsome curly-haired bearded man. Yeah. This is always like a kind of interesting thing when we watch something like this happen. You know, you die in the throes of passion.

Good way to go, tough way to go. It's a toss-up. On the one hand, fucking a beautiful vampire. And it seemed like they had been at it for a while and they were at a pivotal moment. On the other hand, they are interrupted at that key moment. And then she does slit his throat and kill him while she comes. I do not think he gets to. No.

He does not get to complete. No, I think she got to enjoy and take her pleasure, and he was like, what's going on here? We were really in the middle of something. So, Lestat is like beside himself. I can hear you through the walls. I heard your heart's dancing. Sorry. It is so reminiscent of that.

I was really struck because this is where he brings up the tending to the wounds. We were mother and son, and it's like, oh, are you? And then we kind of can hear the incursion of something that is not yet. it happened for them, right? The kind of crashing of the waves from this lake setting. So the way that we are melding, desire and abandonment, need and loss for these characters, like, across time, including obviously in the contemporary setting where he's like, as we'll hear later, she's like, I was gone a week and he's like, it was nine days. Very intense all around. He's starting to be precise about the number of days. He does. And he meets his mommy. How many days

he existed before he met Louis de Pontalach and how many days she's been gone. Exactly. The I love you. says like I love you I love you and he cries he cries they kiss and then I thought there was an interesting expression on her face here like I thought she actually looked as she starts to fuck her son or as her son starts to fuck her I thought she looked a little surprised oh like a little Allison to just sort of like uh not that because Allison is like what have I done but maybe like I don't no, I couldn't, I was trying to read this. It was like, I think Gabriela knows what she's doing and is manipulating him very actively, but almost like she had to confront, and maybe this is part of why she leaves. There's a difference between lust and a deeper, like, this boy

needs his mommy and I am his entire existence, and that's actually not going to work for me. Like, I think she saw in his eyes there that what she is for him, she's never going to be for him. I mean, definitely on the, you know, you think it's a, I think it's more of like a harbor, where they are. Maybe it's, I don't know, there's a lighthouse. Do they have lighthouses on lakes? I don't know. A body of water.

Body water. A cove. Yeah. Yes. Love a cove. A cove. Yeah, those are like actual like ocean vessels that are torn up. Yeah, yeah, tall ships, whatever.

Anyway, yeah, the cove. The beach. Yes. Whatever. When he's like, let's get blood married and do this forever, she's like, absolutely not. I don't think so. So she sees that same look in his eyes here, right? Yeah, yeah.

We have this great email from our listener who said, Blake said when LaSat told her he heard her banging the Christian through the walls It felt like what he was really saying Was the same thing Louis asked him all those years later Aren't I enough And that's when Gabbs twisted the knife Telling him she loved him

He's probably only heard those words from her Once or twice before if ever Lestat goes into action Doing what he thinks he has to do to please her To keep her He even tried to put a blood ring on it But you could literally see Gabbs lose her incesty mommy boner on the spot

And she was gone in the morning And the only thing she left was a necklace and proof she received the cunty-ass Bob gift because she cut her hair off. And the cutting of her hair, I think, is interesting because this is very much a thing in the book where she, like, dresses as a man and cuts her hair short to look like a man. But her hair grows back. And she's, like, devastated how quickly her hair grows back because she's like, I can't get rid myself of this trapping of femininity. So she just keeps cutting it. But this line, we get pre-mother and son fucking at the table. Not a wife, not a mother, not a woman.

What then? I'm a fever that comes in the night and kills by the morning. But this rejection of her role as a woman, as a mother, as a wife, as a Marquis, perhaps. And then her, like, oppressive absence in the modern storyline haunting this entire episode, just sort of like he's constantly checking his phone. Where is she? Where is she? What is she doing? How long has it been?

When are you going to meet me? Where are you going to meet me? where are you? Yeah. I hope you're at a quiet ear with a view of the cell phone tower you burn down is incredibly good once again.

But yeah, to your point, on this cove, we get this thesis statement of what she wants, right? Which is out in the world, feeding in the streets, an evil that answers goodness. Shall we do it?

Shall we scorch the mortal world, decimated, brothers impaling brothers, mothers throttling their bays, all writhing on the ground till no light remains, no hope of light, and we, the devils, rule.

Together as dark monarch, interdwide for all eternity. Yeah. It's worrying. It's worrying. Is this the statement for the Great Conversion? Yeah, I think so.

And I felt like the way that, again, it was edited to, you know, he is reflecting on the violence of the moment in real time as he is, like, flashing back and we are accessing these core memories, right? And it felt like he was sort of clocking her. And it's not like it's a secret.

You know, she will come to him in the tour bus at the end of the episode and say, the Great Conversion. Just so. Exactly, right? And like, why don't we stoke that? Yeah.

Why don't we fuel it? Why don't we be present for the converted? And the way that she's using him, as she always has, as she did with the Wolf Hunt, to be like the powerful masculine force that she cannot be. She cannot whip the votes towards the Great Conversion or whatever. But she's got this, like, hot, charismatic son who she can use and manipulate. in order to do that work for her. And this is like a, this is a change from the book, this idea that like Gabrielle is at all interested in the Great Conversion and this more explicit shading of her relationship with

him as like overtly manipulative. I think they just made it crystal clear on the side of this episode. And like when you hear Sam Reid talk about this episode or talk about La Stott's relationship with Gabriel, this entire season, Gabriela, you know, that he's just sort of like, he's being manipulated into it. That this, this like sexual relationship with her is not really what he wants from her. He just wants like mother and closeness. And this is the only thing he knows how to do to get it, you know?

And that she knows is the thing that she can do to, you know, manipulate, make him malleable to her whims. I think this guy wants to fuck his mom. I think it's there in the, in the bird. It feels like undeniable. He's not like repulsed by it. But I don't think it is to seek a different type of closeness, for sure. He is actually like a little repulsed by it. But he's not like, he's not doing it unwillingly.

Yeah. But he's also just sort of like if it were entirely up to him, he wouldn't do it, I think. I think his, if he had his druthers, he would just, they'd like be cradling each other against their bosoms, right? Yeah. And the fact that. Certainly nude. Just like a real, like a real. Like a real amen in the brothel sort of situation. Exactly. There is some mother's milk nearby and a teat to suckle. The, like, the fact that the first time we watch them actually have sex, she is still, it's not, it's not even just that he has interrupted her having sex with somebody else because of the jealousy, right? I need you so fully and I want you to need me. Like, we need to be enough for each other. That's what I want, right? She is still, when they start having sex, she is still.

still panting. Uh-huh. From her sexual encounter with this other guy. It's like mere seconds have passed. So that is so warped and befouled, but kind of tells us everything we need to know about him seeking to take her back from anything that isn't him. And that look on her face there, it's like, okay, I see that you need me in a way that is not what I want.

The wedding ring, the blood ring connection there is, yeah, they just, they want something different out of each other. And I think that both of the things that they each want, it's all wrong. What's so interesting about it, I think, is the comp with Louis. Because it's like what is happening with Louis and Regina is wrong. I think kind of undeniably. Would you say? Wrong.

That's a brave take, I know. Just like watching Lestat fuck his mom is wrong. The fact that Gabriella is thinking kind of at scale, right? Thinking in this like mass way. And for Lestat, for Louis, it is, whether, it's the ghost of Nikki. You know, the fact that we pan out on the tour bus at the end when Gabriella is there weaponizing him and his need and his longing. And we pan out and we see his ghosts in an episode where Louis is chasing his ghost.

It's this undeniable, like, you know, they are both kind of enveloped in the dome of like the one thing they need. But then what impact does that have on everybody else around them. And you and I would suggest therapy? First and foremost. Secondly, why don't find it in each other? Louis Lista. That's great idea. That's all I want. Okay. This episode is brought to you by Accenture. When your advertising operations fall out of sync, everything else follows. Spotify and Accenture are working together to reinvent the rhythm of ad sales,

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AI Cloud ERP for any size business. Idea. Anything we want to say about this Armand, Daniel Bowling, scene that we've already kind of gone through this. I titled this section, Devil's Minion, because this is the name, as I think I've mentioned, maybe in the book's brother's section, of the chapter in the Queen of the Dam that is about Daniel and Armand and their bond and their relationship. So the devil's minion is sort of the name of this like ship. Right. And a lot of fans were very excited to see sort of, you know, this gather scene inside of this episode. where as Asad Zaman who plays, Armand has said, like, he's telling the truth.

When he tells Daniel, it wasn't love for Louis, it was love for you that blinded me in Dubai, stuff like that. That is true. That's a fact. Is it also manipulative of Daniel? I think to your point, Armand can be working multiple agendas at any given time. But this is the devil's minion. And when the cast was asked, like, their favorite. couple of the season, they all said

Daniel and Armand. Yeah. So here we are. I'm loving it. I think it's fascinating. It's a deep and rich psychological text. You know, another father and son. Exactly. The fact it's like it's not blood DNA incest, but like it becomes a version of that for vampires. You know, it's just like Louis doesn't call him dad or daddy, but like. The fact that they referred to him. But Daniel's like, let me lean into it. Yeah. I thought that in the other thing I guess that's worth just quickly noting that is not specific to this ship in their relationship

but that does transpire in this scene is that when Daniel asked Armand why he's here Armand kind of issues this warning and we've been talking about the very heavy presence of all of these harbingers across various different character sets and scenes so he says you're court in great danger with Lestat.

Him he's just an asshole there are nearly enough of us now Each abody a night, each churning one a week, more deaths than birth, the Great Conversion, it's happening, Daniel. Here we go. And he's going to lead it and get us all killed. The Great Conversion is like, that's established at this point, but he's going to lead it unwittingly. That's what Gabriela seems to want. Wittingly? At a certain point, at what point are you complicit enough if you like know you're being manipulated by this person, right? Right. Get us all killed. Or at least like lose an eye on a foot. You know what I mean? at the end of the day.

A couple of things here also. Armand's accent sounds thicker, like more French in this bowling scene than it did to me, like in the Dubai sequences where he had like largely smoothed out his accent. So I don't know what that's about. It's either an actor choice or character choice or I don't know what it is. And then your blood sucks line is very curious when Daniel's talking to Armand about like having not gifted him anything. because Armand has extremely powerful blood, actually.

Like, extremely, extremely, extremely, extremely powerful vampire. And, canonically, Daniel is the only fledgling that Armand has ever made. And this is why it's, like, so special. It's like Armand is actually kind of anti-making more vampires. So the fact that he turned Daniel. Right. And we don't even know the full story of this flight from Newark and what happened there. We don't know that full story.

Tough straight at Newark here. Yeah. On the birth certificate front. But, like, you know, what is so fascinating about Daniel that Armand sort of broke his rule to turn Daniel into his fledgling and what has Daniel not yet unlocked about how powerful it would be to actually be the fledgling of the vampire, Armand. Right. Because that would actually be a huge, like, similar to, like, Louis, like, Lestat is a powerful vampire. And, like, you know, and he's got the blood of Akasha in him, you know, and like what that means in terms of Louis being turned. So we're talking about like vampire royalty to a certain degree.

I thought on the vampire royalty and like how powerful is Armand front and also the Akasha teases, nicely all entwined and put together in the Armand-Lestat bloodshower scene because we get the little repairing a voiceover as we so often are this season with what is happening in the scene. Fated wallpaper waiting for lights to dim so it could peel off and suffocate you in the dark. this is Lestat's description of Armand. He would do more damage than the queen ever did. Ominus. Oh, boy. Okay, what's the, what's the worst insult levied toward Armand?

It's Falk Cloud. Is it the faded wallpaper? Is it Fah, I kind of like Fug Cloud? Fug Cloud was... Is it Lestat saying, via verse, Big Boss is a total blah, blah, blah. His kisses put me in a coma. No stuff.

Or is it Louis de Pont DeLacque? Yeah. In San Francisco, saying colorless, flavorless, dull, dull, dull, nice, dull, weeks, dull, dull as fuck,

suffocation by the world's softest, beige's pillow. It's still that one. Yeah. Lestat and Louis both choosing, like, interior,

like, boring interior decorations to, like, describe Armand's presence. Fated wallpaper and beige pillow is absolutely brutal. Really tough stuff. Oh, man.

Fucklaw. Kill me, though. I love that. I'm going to keep fuck loud as part of my, like, everyday, everyday speech. Yeah.

Great stuff. This is a fascinating Armand episode. Who does that most describe at the ringer? Who's the fuck cloud? I won't be commenting. We're not incriminating ourselves in that way. The big boss performance. Again, we mentioned the pigtails, the makeup, the blood kicked on the neck.

Yeah. This whole thing, the, him talking about him throwing the book around, both Louie and Lestat are talking about the book in serious ways in this episode. My old haunt, Vanity Fair gets a call out. So does Out magazine. This is how Lestat describes himself. Toxic bitch, anguishly attached. Then he starts prancing show pony with a personality disorder called Lestat. I just think fantastic writing.

I mean, pretty good summation. It feels like Lestat has maybe been to some therapy as opposed to Louis. You know what I mean? But Assad's performance in the face of all the like this pigtailed shoulder should be beat down that he gets is just like incredible shit. And this is two episodes in a row that Lestat has. brutally humiliated someone. It's Daniel last week, and it's our mod this week. Will this go well for him?

I don't think so. Well, well, well, if it isn't the consequences of my own action sort of thing. Yeah, and I think you pair what's interesting to think about right now with how the, because, you know, after we finished talking about this one, three episodes left, as you said. That's not a lot. Now, three hours is a lot of room to tell a good story, but like we're nearing the endgame of this season. I know. Sad.

It is very sad. What if they don't get another season? I'm very sad. Oh, is that like in the... I don't know. Could be. Could be. Yeah, no.

Well, that's not acceptable. Let's not allow that. Okay, great. It's not happening. It's not happening. There, we self-day. We did it. The show will be back.

You pair these really, like, personal grievances and slights, which lead people to carry a resentment that calcifies and then, you know, these cycles. I'm not sure if you've heard, but sin be gets sin. Hmm. pair that with this whatever is happening in the wider world. And you have like, so it was interesting to think about the idea that Armand could do more damage than the queen. Yeah, Akasha, who we've been like prepped to be so scared of. And then it's like, well, okay, so is it column A because he's so personally wounded by these personal slights and attacks, right? is it because every episode has included somebody shouting casually

or in some sort of scrawled on their conspiracy wall, Armand told the truth? And the fact that we saw, so I was thinking about this, because you have like the Detroit fan gang, like Armand told the truth, you've got these more kind of like organized championings of that idea. But then the one that really now in hindsight stands out even more, I think, is like the bookshop. We're just like instantly that's what gets its claws into people.

Right? They've read the book they're talking about and they're like, Armand, fuckless stat. It's Armand. Do you think Armand is just like sending those psychic waves out into the universe? Because he is the most manipulative, like mind gifted person. Maybe.

So he's just sort of like subliminally like out there just being like, Armand told the truth. Intentionally? Armine was right. Unintentionally? Oh. Does it just come off him in waves? Like because he's telling the truth when he's,

He tells Daniel, and again, the actor has said this, when he tells Daniel, I don't know what's happening when everyone goes away and it's just the two of them. Yeah. He genuinely doesn't. Right. Right. This is like, well, he's never made a vampire before. So like he's never experienced this before. Let's talk about Louis and Regina and men will do anything other than go to therapy.

Shout out of Regina saying, do I take my tampon out in front of the podcaster? It's just amazing. Really good stuff. Incredible. Love that our profession has become synonymous with, like, loser people who crash in your apartment. And he's only been there since Tuesday. So this is a show-invented storyline. This whole Regina thing is show-invented.

The book readers have no idea what to make of this. Okay. To keep Louie, he who licenses and franchises the night. One of my favorite lines of the season. Masterful. Incredible. In the mix, not to mention someone who looks like Claudia, right? So we get these two actors who who get to make, you know, play out this very juicy, complicated, horrible, toxic scenario. Something that Daniel said to Louis and Dubai when when they're doing the interview, he says to Louis, still a pimp paying a whore to sit in a room with you and talk.

So like that's what Danny was and this is something that we met Louis. He would pay a sex worker not to have sex with him, but just to like listen to him. So this is something that he needs. So like what is this with Regina? if not that, him throwing money at a young, a young compromised woman. And he's like, I mean, I love Louis. Same.

And I am like on his side. But when he's like, hey, I've looked up your criminal record. I found your only fans. I found your only fans. Not good. That's not good. And I can make all that go away if you just do this thing with me. And she's like, pour myself into yellow dress and standing your lap.

And he's like, no. And she's like, no. Right. You know? Yeah. And then the change in the air when she, after he has guided her to read the book, understand what he needs exactly who he is, who Claudia is, who he's missing. And she impersonates Claudia.

Daddy Lou. I thought, like, so the fact that she kind of initially mistakes his intentions, right? You know, my ass isn't on the menu, but it's still cause. Gay, gay, gay, gay. And then you move into this like, well, what is the difference? Right? Yeah. Actually.

Yeah. What is bus fare? You know, that's a thousand bucks. That's bus fare for you. Okay, how about 100,000 five times that? Like, they're bartering. Good negotiation skills, Regina. I would say, 500,000.

I would say you could have charged more. She looked him up and says that he's the like 566 richest man in the world. It's, you start at a million. A million. You start at a million. Okay. Did me more. Exactly.

Okay. Exactly. Though I suspect this won't be the last negotiation between these two. This is just, it's sad because, yeah, I also love Louis and I feel for him deeply. And the fact that this, like, trauma and this loss and this grief has such a hold on him, right? And that his regret has such a hold on him. And this is something that Jacob said is like, what's going on with Jacob Anderson who plays Louis the best? Something that he said is like, killing Bruce didn't do it.

It didn't exercise the demon for him. You know what I mean? He's just sort of like he thought he would find some relief in doing this. And the pain is still there of like having led Claudia to her, not being able to save her in the first place, put her in this position. Even though Lestat, like, you know, was warned about Nikki, warned Louis. This is a bad idea to turn Claudia into a vampire in the first place. And the fact that he could not keep her safe and alive and happy and the extreme guilt that he feels about that. And is there a way via this fucked up situation?

that he's found himself in. And again, I am still curious if this woman actually looks like as much like Claudia as he thinks she does. Right. Like I will be curious if, if Lestat or if someone else, like, shows up what do they see? If Armand is like, that's not, you know, if we see her from their point of view and it's a different actress and it's just sort of like, that's not what she looks like, you know? That'll be fascinating. Yeah. I, it's interesting to because like, You know, given how much of the Claudia stretch of season two in Paris at the theater was like playing characters. It adds an extra layer to this that is like, I find really captivating and disturbing. Louis, so like when he was describing the initial glimpse, right, and I saw this person.

I thought. Come out of the subway. Yeah. And then he's like, he says, chasing ghosts, right? Like that makes it so much more tragic, I think, that he knows and understands and has decided, like, has made an active choice to do this anyway. And like leaves multiple times in a way that like you could see him tell himself, I'm not coming back. That's the last time. And then he just keeps coming back.

Yeah. And like what he's putting on Regina already, like when he's like, it's been a couple days, you missed your shift, you know. I've been here since 1.30. I'm worried. Yeah. I've been here this 1.30 waiting for you. Yeah. And like you could, I certainly come to care about a stranger very quickly, but that's not what this is.

He is immediately transposing his feelings for Claudia onto this other person. And it's just like, it's very disturbing. Seek help. Yeah. Seek help. Very, very, very disturbing. All right. An assassination attempt and a record deal.

We've already talked about this sort of like final backstage tantrum from Lestad, but again, incredible writing. he's like describing the like what nipple hardening like yeah erection popping prick popping there it is okay um i just want to shout out that mus nicky has a backstage pass on which just like really cracked me up he's in his like period costume with the bloody stump but he's got a backstage pass on made me really laugh whoever was on set was like we should put a backstage pass on him top tier work um the fact that he called he wants his mother to hear it's been 12 i left 12 minutes ago and they're still shouting for me. I'm worthy of adoration and that attention

and love. And it's like she's always tried to wield that against him, like post-wolf killing. She's like, they're here to worship you. Yeah. She's always, and so again, like, there's a level, I think, of awareness that the characters possess of what other, what they are doing,

what their vulnerabilities are, right? And what the kind of like pitfalls are. And then the other characters unlock something about that. They're like kind of helpless to prevent the chokehold again. And like the fact that in such, because this is all really in the like final 10 minutes of the episode, he calls her, he's like, look, they worship me,

they recognize my value. You don't. And then she comes in and is like, don't you want to be worshipped? Look at what you've done to help these voices. You hear them. But also sandwiched between that is a shoot. Is someone shooting him?

Yeah. The guy we met in episode one, like shows up to shoot, to expose the truth of him. And we get this mention at the beginning of the episode, of like a manifesto on a computer and in the library. So I assume that it's this guy's manifesto that he's talking about. But yeah, the vampire Messiah, which is how Daniel refers to him at the beginning of this episode when he comes sort of like, what does the vampire Messiah owe, you know, his audience or whatever. But he gets the stigmata, right?

He gets the like shot through the right through the hand sort of moment. Yes. I was thinking about Jack O'Connell in the Bone Temple. Anyway. Aren't we always? Always. I'm still at the Bone Temple. Lestak could rock a track suit. There's no question. Oh, yeah. And he's already got the blonde hair.

Exactly. Anyway, I just think that, you know, this is part of the whole fandom worship frenzy thing is like this, you know, this is what happened to John Lennon. Like, this is what happens sometimes when you put yourself in this position of worship and in this damage society we live in, what some people do with that. is extremely fucked up, but they've got a record deal. Yeah. That's least throughout this episode. I thought the party scene with the aforementioned yurt line and stuff like that was shot very like this is spinal tap sort of set up. But yeah, this like very dorky like, you know, music exec guys here.

And it's just sort of like, I get it. I get what you're doing. Like sort of thing. Anyway, he's, this is presumably what we're seeing at the end of the episode is them starting to record the. record the album. Yeah. I thought it was... It was an interesting...

So the shooting, the manifesto, when we get the reading of the manifesto on the news after the shooting, it was an interesting way to root us in just a truth of the story, which is that our heroes are bad. Like the... From a certain point of view.

Yeah, it was a real, like, okay, because this is a mass shooter, this person is a... this horrific, awful thing and is undeniably in every respect, reprehensible and deplorable. And of course, like, how can you not think of real-life tragedies? And this is awful, right? It's horrible. There's not a single person watching, hopefully, who is like, that guy hasn't figured out. It's like, this is a broken person who has done something terrible, period, right? The thing he says about vampires...

Where their food? Yeah. Yeah. Is they feed siphoning away our vitality in order to extend their own natural existence, but if we are their fuel, are we not also their strength? That is incredibly worrying them because they're, like, you have on the, you pair the idea of the great conversion and the masses and all these people who are like, that seems good, that seems fun, turn me into a vampire. And then the people who are going to hear that and say, wait a minute, yeah, the people you guys love to watch every week on your television show or the people you love to listen to in your band, whatever's happening here, we can't just let the vampires turn and eat us, right?

So then, like, what army rises up to challenge the vampires? Right, but like if your front man is Lestat versus this guy. Well, and this is what Gabriella wants, right? It's just hell and violence unleashed all around. I think also something that Tim Armand and whoever else is against the Great Conversion is thinking about and should be thinking about is something we talked about. We talked about Pluribus and the way in which like in the show Plurvis, spoiler for the show. Spoiler. Seriously, skip ahead.

They're like eating people. Yeah. Right? And so they were talking, we got a lot of emails from people who are like, I don't know, epidemiologists or whatever your profession needs to be to understand this who are like, this is an unsustainable, like food chain. Yeah. And so like with the great conversion, like that's an unsustainable. Like if you turn too many vampires, what are you going to eat? Right.

And you can't sustain it. And the earth can't support it. Even if you have like these blood farms, it's like not. It can't pan out that way. something to think about in your plan, Gabriella. Okay, book spoilers? Yeah. Do you, last Gabriela question before the book spoilers?

Do you think at this point in the story there's anything about her that feels redeemable? Because it feels purely evil. It does. And this is a choice that they've made to take this, I would say, exists in the gray character in the books and make her more of a villain, which is an interesting choice to make when there are so few female characters in this show. and like Claudia's dead. You know, Regina, we have some questions about what's going on there. Akasha is, of course, this, like, big villain who's, like, looming over and stuff like that. The idol Christine, though.

Yeah, Christine and Top Cookie. Holding it down. Holding it down. Holding it down. Something to aspire to. But I was just sort of, like, interesting to take this, like, one female, main character female, especially since Claudia's dead and, like, turn her into, like, a more overt, villain, I think, is an interesting choice to make. Yeah.

And whether the villainy is, like, directed in a very personal way, like, getting to witness the kind of first abandonment. Yeah. So painful. And you see the effect that that has on La Stott still. And then this just declaration of evil intent, like, this is what I would like to bring into the world. Yeah.

These are the horrors I would like to. Mother's traveling their babies. Yeah. Doesn't it sound great? But even then, I don't think I want to spend the next 50 to 100 years, let alone beyond doing it would be just you. It's concerning. Is Lestat going to be able to stop her?

Is his need for her approval and love to great? You know, what level of like, what ability does he have to check himself and to check her? Once the clarity sets in that this is what, what is driving for what she's here. Yeah, behind what is happening around them and all of the effects that are. It has. I don't have any answer screen. It's worrying. But again, they've been telling us since the very

beginning of this season that worrying things were afoot. So it feels like the promise is going to be fulfilled. All right, book spoilers. Yes. It's so jaunty. And then it gets so evil. I just really like saying the Great Conversion. Again, I think you've nailed the accent, which I would just pause it. Chocula. You shouldn't be able to. Chocular. Yeah. All right. It's given jacula. All right, the devil's road connections to Akasha, who says upon waking at the end of the book,

The Vampireostat. And it's a quote that someone says earlier in the book. And she says it again later. From my stone pillow, I have dreamed dreams of the mortal world above. I've heard its voices, its new music, as lullabies, as I lie in my grave. I've envisioned its fantastical discoveries. I've known its courage and the timeless sanctum of my thoughts. And though it shuts me out with its dazzling forms, I long for one with the strength to roam it

fearlessly to ride the devil's road through its heart. Okay. And she thinks that's Lestat. Okay. Interesting. Also, maybe I should have said this earlier, but like, you know, when Lestat's like, Nikki, my first love is not a great love. And Daniel's like, really?

You buried yourself underground for 100 years after he died. I actually think he buried himself underground for 100 years after his mommy left him. That's actually why he buried himself underground for 100 years. And again, this is, I think, I believe this is a show edition because they did like the time difference. You know, so they needed to put like Lestat, sort of like putting Asoka and the World Between Worlds, you know what I mean? Just sort of like put them on ice for a little while.

Yeah. In this version of the story, it's because Gabriel left. I think. I don't know. We'll see what happens next week. The name Regina means queen. A few people have pointed this out. Yeah.

Does this character have anything to do with Akasha? Our listener, Dan said, I've been loving the vampire list at such as just a fantastic show after this latest episode number four, I had a thought. Is there any way that Regina knew Claudia will end up being or being connected to Akasha? I know it sounds crazy, but Akasha is definitely coming. And some sort of connection seems like a better reveal than introducing a whole new character. Plus, her name does mean queen. As always, a theory held loosely. Shout out Dan for holding his theory loosely. But like, is this Akasha in a different form? Is she being controlled by Akasha? Is it similar to just sort of like

Armand having Alex as a way to get to Lestad? Is this a way? Is this a way? way for Akasha to get, I don't, I don't know the answer. But Regina is a very interesting name choice for this show invented character. Yeah. Does not feel like it could be coincidental. I don't know. I don't know the answer. Interesting. Interesting. Okay. Huh. Last one at least for Marybeth. On the Daniel death front. And so Eric Boghossian was on the official podcast this week talking about the host Lizzie asked him about his, the death omen. Yeah. And he's, and he, said this is something that Rollin has promised me. A good death. That I get like a really cool death. Okay. And I don't, I couldn't tell by the way that he and Roland were talking about it if that

means they're doing. And again, this is this would be a book departure. But like again, if it's something they're doing this season. But like that like this is something he promised me sounded very like future. Maybe. Yeah. And he was and Roland was like we have to figure out how to execute it. So I feel like it isn't this season. But like it feels very Harrison for. is Han Solo. I'll come back as Han Solo, but you got to kill me. Like, Begoshan's like, I'll do a couple more seasons of your vampire show, but then you got to kill me. Yeah. Sure. And give me a good death. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Possibly. But on that front, Mary Beth wrote in to say this exchange from Daniel and Raglan in season two. Daniel says,

can you protect me? Ragland says, from being killed? No. We're particularly poor keeping our assets alive. Daniel says, I'm not an asset. Ragland says, you messaged me. I showed up. The mackerel was better last time. Daniel said, they want to get out alive. Raglan says, you want a book. Daniel says, I want both. Raglan says you fear Armand, you should fear the other one, meaning Louis, which is very interesting. I don't

know what that means. And then after a scene with Louis and Armand, we come back to Raglan and Daniel talking about the book, and Ragland says, I think you've been masterful, I think. If I could swap bodies with you, I'd be running the order by now. And a lot of people just thought

that was like a fun little throwaway, like the body thief sort of Raglan hint, but is it more directed at an actual, like, Daniel will be involved with the body thief sort of plot line? I don't know if it's just like a fun little Easter egg for fans, Ragland just being like, if I can swap bodies with you, like blah, blah, or if it's actually Daniel will definitely be involved in that body swap plot. I don't know. Interesting. But fun to think about. Interesting.

We've yet to have an episode where we're not reminded that check stat exists. So what do you think if LaSat was so publicly shot multiple times? Like, yeah. Are they, what are they going to do with that? Prostatic wounds, maybe? Or on check stat? Because that was part of it. Part of it was like he's going to be fine because he's a vampire, like a way to prove it.

Yeah. So if he shows up and he's fine? Huh. I don't know. Any other questions, comments, or concerns? This Regina Akasha thing is interesting. I know. I don't.

I, again, I'm in theory. I'm in full theory territory because this is not a book thing. I guess my main question, honestly. Like, what if someone else shows up and it looks like the actress they've cast to play Akasha? Acasha, right? Well, yeah, it's interesting. All of those possibilities are interesting. Yeah.

Is it Akasha? Is it like a pawn that Akasha is using? and then what would that mean? Because like trying to destabilize and control Louis to what end? Like the, and that is a particular to follow it with this, this Mary Beth's reminder, the Nutrisphere the other one. Like, who is more valuable to gain access to through the other, you know? And like, I guess just also when, now that Louis has gone,

gone off to the brick and bacon? Like, when is he going to get back? Yeah, into the main plot. Yeah, into the main plot. How long... I hope soon. Because it feels like we only have three episodes left. I think, to your point of, like, what are other characters going to see?

Even if Regina looks exactly like Claudia to everyone else, there still needs to be a moment, a reckoning, I think, quite soon where somebody probably will start. I would guess. Says to Louis, this is not okay. Yeah. Maybe they have noose for each other. Louis's like, stop fucking your mom. And he's like, stop stalking this girl who looks like our dead daughter. I mean, it would be helpful feedback all around, I think.

Also, group therapy? Couples therapy would be great for them. Couples therapy, I would love it. All right. That has been episode four. I'm really excited for episode five. I do believe we're getting Marius in the next episode. So that is very exciting.

Love to meet a legendary vampire. Thank you to Jacob Cornett, Carlos Chiraboga, Scott Lee, Arjuno Rangipal, and Jomey Adoneron. be back with our House of the Dragon. Episode 2, Deep dive. Very excited for that. Can't wait. Thank you to you, Mallory Rubin. Thank you to you.

My maker. You're my maker and I'm your fledgling, you know? No, you're my queen. And I love you. We'll see you soon. Bye. Hey, y'all. It's Kelly Clarkson with Wayfair.

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