House of R - 'Thor: Love and Thunder' Theories, Easter Eggs, and Mailbag

Episode Date: July 12, 2022

Mal and Joanna take one more swing of the hammer and dive deep into 'Thor: Love and Thunder' once again. They are joined by Jomi to address some of the biggest Easter eggs surrounding the latest MCU blockbuster (08:17). Then they crack open your mailbag questions and expound on theories around all things involving Gods and the MCU (45:07). Hosts: Joanna Robinson and Mallory Rubin Guest: Jomi Adeniran Social: Jomi Adeniran Senior Producer: Steve Ahlman Addition Production: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'm Charles Holmes, the Ringer Music Show. And I'm Cole Kushner from Dysect, and Charles and I are teaming up to create Last Song Standing, a new show where we determine an artist's single best song by debating our way through their entire catalog. And for our first season, we're covering Kendrick Lamar. We're talking good kids, a pimple butterfly, Dan, Mr. Morow, the mixtapes, the Lucy's, and the features. Listen to Last Song Standing on the Dysect podcast feed only on Spotify. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Tramphia offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start.

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The atmosphere there has a darkness like no other. This is if color fears to tread. It's unmistakable. Well, then if it's color we need, let's bring the rainbow. Bring the rainbow. Was that a catchphrase or something? She's only going to thaw for a minute. I mean, saving life, she's quite good at it,

but the rest of it, she needs work. How many catchphrases have they been? Welcome into the Ringerverse here on the Ringer Podcast Network. I'm Mallory Rubin, and it is my absolute pleasure to invite you not only back to New Asgard, but to join us on the Ringers Nexus podcast feed for all things fandom joining me today. Now that she's finished telling me to eat her hammer, it's my house of our working, working tight. Co-host Joanna Robinson.

King Mal, it is such an honor to join you here on our round two. Last By the Apple, I think, for, thank you for shaking Mielnir at me. For those who can't see, holding my giant Mielnir have already hit myself in the head once for 30 seconds in. So I'm going to put this down for now. But it's here. And that's what matters. For shaking it menacingly at me.

Um, I have, uh, I have some meat. I don't know if this is going to make a sound. Yeah. Oh. Hopefully that might caught that the top of the meat popping off. I'm really only having like an inch of meat because it is strong stuff and it is the morning. Wow. You can hear the like burble as you're pouring that, the glug.

Yeah. Great stuff. But I do have it in like a, uh, a thorworthy tankard. So hold that up again. We need to get a look at the like the rich hue. And by we, I mean the five people on this Zoom with you, not the legions listening who can't see it. Look at that. A beautiful honeyed mead.

Necter of the gods and podcasters alike, wonderful. We did a, so because the label on it, and we're going to talk about not meat in a second, I promise. But because the label on it, we made it around the time I was doing the Lost podcast. So the label is like got the Dharma initiative label on it. but also we spiced it using spices in the numbers of the loss numbers. So it's like four cloves, eight all-spice things. Like we used, yeah, yeah. Wow.

I mean, I don't know if that's how, like, the alchemy of meat making is supposed to work, but I love the bit. And I love leaning into it. You're just supposed to spice it to your season to taste. So we just threw in a bunch of, you know, like cardamom and whatever. in the numbers that we determined were exciting for us. So heavenly. Quite literally, heavenly.

The beverage of the gods there. That's just, that's great stuff. Does anybody else have a particularly notable beverage accompaniment for this podcast that they'd like to share? Jomi Adoneron will be with us for the bulk of this pod since this is a big mailbag episode. Steve is here. Arjuna's here. Anybody, I've just got a, I've got a smart water with me.

So that's not super exciting on the, on the med scale. But I'm ready to hydrate. I've got a zero sugar strawberry kiwi snapple. I'm stay strapped. Look at that. What's the fun fact on the inside of the cap? Let's give it a shot. We're super on task today.

Real fact, 735. Uh-huh. A full moon is nine times brighter than a half moon. Okay. We're going to talk about some howling wolves later. So this is actually shockingly on topic. I don't know if you guys are paying attention, but that James Webb Telescope is releasing all kinds of new footage.

Oh, I'm paying attention. Oh, man. Space is living right now. Yeah. Good for space. Like Garcy said, how space? Space is fun. Space is good.

All right. Today we are back, as you probably know if you're here, for more Thor, love, and thunder talk. It is part two. of our House of our Thor extravaganza and part bogellian across the Ringer podcast network. The Midnight Boys,

Poo Poo! have been potted about Thor. Big Pick has double Thor action for you as well. Today, here, we are going to be answering your mailbag questions, your Raven Mail, as Valky would say. You know, we know how Thor feels about electronic letters, but Val, she is there to tell you

that a lot of the meetings could have been Raven Mail, and we agree. We're here to talk about theories. We're here to talk about Easter eggs. If you have not yet listened to part one and you're wondering, well, hey, if this is part two, what was in part one? That's the whole house of our deep dive for you. It's waiting on your feeds, character arcs, themes, comic book influences, Marvel Phase 4 angst chatter. Joe's interview with the director of this movie, Tyco, and Tidi.

All of it. Waiting for you. Check that out. Okay, before we whistle for tooth nasher and tooth grinder to dive in for part two, a couple of additional quick programming reminders. This Wednesday, the Midnight Boys, pooh, we'll have their instant reaction to the Miss Marvel season finale. We will be back on Friday with our House of Our Deep dive on the finale. Joe, where can the people follow that?

Oh, my gosh. Well, I actually think we should ask Jomi. Jomi, where can people follow the ringer race? That's a great question. if you are so inclined, you can follow the Ringiverse on Twitter at Ringiverse. You can follow the Ringiverse on Instagram at Ringiverse. And lo and behold, if you're like, man, this pod content is cool,

but I wish I could indulge. I wish I could dive in to some more fun, exciting video content. Then do I have the platform for you? because you can follow the Ring ofverse on TikTok at Ringiverse. Make it happen. TikTok. So many great Ewan McGregor TikToks, which I experience exclusively via Joanna Robinson text message. It's wonderful.

I sent you a doozy yesterday. Like a real overwhelming. Remarkable stuff. Truly special. Follow the pod as well on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. and of course, as always, bear in mind our friendly neighborhood. Spoiler warning.

The neighborhood today, it's the Cosmos, it's a big neighborhood today. This podcast will feature plot details from Thor Love and Thunder. The fourth standalone Thor film, the sixth movie of Phase 4 of the MCU, the 29th MCU film to date.

We're also going to say that the entire MCU run to date is fair game today and all of Marvel Comics canon. All of it! So proceed with more caution than the Brink's Bringer of Light did when he taunted a forsaken disciple who was standing quite literally inches

from the beckoning necrosaur. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable internet means everything for your business. And even this podcast, that's why I trust Spectrum Business to keep companies of all sizes connected with internet, advanced Wi-Fi, phone, TV, mobile services, plus 24-7 U.S.-based support millions of business owners already trust Spectrum business. So visit Spectrum.com slash business to learn more. Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. Before we get to the mailbag in the theories, let's reach our hand in to the old Easter egg basket because while all gods must die, all Easter eggs must live. And there are so many in this

movie. We already mentioned a bunch of the Easter eggs yesterday in our part one pod. We noted the unheard whisper. We noted the Jane Foster, Jane Fonda, Jody Foster, Delightful Name Bit, the backtap, the space dolphins of the space sharks, the snap timeline discurpancy of the breakup, etc. So what we're going to do now is each hit five of our favorites that we haven't mentioned yet And then maybe we'll do some lightning round rapid fire run-throughs of some others. We'll see. We'll see how we feel in the moment. Joe, you want to kick it off?

Yes. Yes, absolutely I do. I want to kick it off with a story, a little story about a film called Cocktail. So Cocktail and Dreams is the neon sign that is on Val's pleasure boat. This is a reference to the 1980s classic film Cocktail starring Tom Cruise. The most, like, important thing that you should know about the film Cocktail, if you're younger than ancient and haven't heard of it or seen it, is that it spawned or at least featured the Beach Boys classic Kokomo on the soundtrack.

So this is like responsible for making Kokomo a banger. And the reason I want to bring up Kokomo to you really briefly here for a minute is I was literally today or this year's year old when I found out that Kokomo is not a real place. Did you already know that, Valerie? because here's the deal with the song Kokomo. Uh-huh. He lists all these real places. That's right. You know, La Martinique, that Montserrat Mastique, like, you know, all of that.

Yeah. Yeah. And then he says, like, how the MCU is like, New York. New Asgard. Right? Fair. You know, I just, they're real if we want them to be. I was a small child when I first heard that song, and I 100% for, yeah, Steve has let us know that Kokomo is a town in Indiana, and of course it is, but that is definitely

not what the Beach Boys are singing about. Ringer versus Midwest, chiming in right there. Yeah. So I just want to spare the rest of you from the embarrassment I felt where in front of a bunch of loved ones, I admitted that I thought Kokomo was a real place for the entirety of my life. How did that come up? Were you like, we should book a family cruise? Like, we should, we should head out together. Check it out at last. we were talking about Montserrat for some reason I could not tell you why. And I was like, oh, the only reason I know about Montserrat is it's a lyric in Kokomo, blah, blah. And they're like, oh, well, is it a real place?

Because Kokomo isn't. I was like, what are you talking about? Of course, Kokomo is a real place. Anyway, it's a state of mind, Kokomo, apparently. That's where I want to go to get away from it all. Anyway, cocktails and dreams. Just an incredible pop culture Easter egg. Love that for Val.

Remarkable. Great stuff. My first pick, it's something that we've already talked about a lot, our pals, our new friends. Toothnisher and Toothrinder, our beloved goats. What a blast they were in this movie. But in terms of the Easter egg of it all, obviously the goats pulling Thor's chariot, a staple in Norse mythology. And so to see that incorporated here at last, to see some goats in a Thor film beyond the goat milk presence on the table

at the end of Dark World. Really, really an overdue delight. And as many have observed, the particular sound treatment on our shrieking friends, deeply reminiscent of our favorite screeching sheep

meme, the sound is nearly identical. This can only be a reference to that. Taika told a story where they had, originally the ghosts were not supposed to have the sound, any sound at all. And that just like one of the editors while cutting like an edit together, put the sound on like kind of as a joke.

And they were like, this is phenomenal. And they just kept it. The vision inflicted into place. I love it. I honestly laughed every single time that it happened. It's great. It's great stuff. What's your next one, Joe?

I'm going to go with the J.C.V.D. splits. He does the John Cloud Van Dam splits. Thor does. It's in the trailer. It's in the beginning of the movie. Again, speaking of things I only learned recently. I only watched my first Genome-Claude Van Dam movies this last year. I had an incredible time.

And I am mad that it took me this long of my life to enjoy the cinematic uvra of J-CVD. Anyway, big fan. Are you a J-CVD fan, Mallory? I can't claim to have spent a lot of time consuming the flicks, but certainly familiar with the split. So that was a delight. That got a big chuckle in the theater. Time Cop.

Like, please enjoy it. Yeah, Jomey knows. Time cut. My next pick is part of a proud or perhaps more accurately shameful ringerverse and ringer podcast network tradition, which is the smuggle. Smuggling multiple picks inside of one pick. Can't help it. She wouldn't be you if you didn't do it, but can't help it. You would not be you if you didn't do it, Mallory.

I love you for it. So instead of just picking one, I'm going to give you multiple picks here that I will be putting under the shared umbrella of Team Thor short connections, the Easter eggs that connect to Team Thor. Just a few to highlight here. Mielnir in the bed at the end with Thor and love connects back to a delightful milnir in a little bed that Thor made sequence in the team Thor shorts. part of a disturbing sequence where we see that Thor is roasting meat that has amassed a large horde of flies buzzing around it as it roasts in the baking sun. But Mule Nier, slumbering merrily in a little cocoon of love. So that was great to see that come back here.

We already talked about this, but got to mention again, Daryl, Thor's roommate from the team Thor shorts, and eventually the grandmasters roommate from the team Daryl short distressing development there. Thriving. Thriving as a tour guide, the new Asgard. And I'm delighted to see him right there on the big screen, firmly embedded in MCU canon. The other one that I just got such a kick out of was in the lovely little Thor Jane romance relationship montage. When we see Thor lift the phone because he's getting a call and he has to step away at dinner and it's Nick Fury calling, but he has spelled it furry on his phone. This connects back to the phone. This connects back to the phone. the very amusing bit where Thor is going over, like his whiteboard, and all of his little drawings

and clues. So there's the incredibly funny Thanos illustration. But he has this whole bit in the team Thor shorts about who Nick Fury is, whether he should be trusted, whether his name is is Fury or Furry. It was just a delight to see that here again. I got such a kick out of it. Love it. Watch those shorts if you haven't. They're a blast. They're on Disney Plus. Joe, what's next for you? Something I love about you, Mallory, is that I feel like most people, when they say amusing, they're being, like, sarcastic or shitty, but you mean it, like, holy and sincerely. And you will just have a riotous tie with yourself, as you remember, a joke from a film short.

I love you. I love that. I'm going to stand bread for myself and shout out some Shakespeare that is inscribed on Stormbreaker. So there's some runes on Stormbreaker. One is just the name of the weapon. Just says Stormbreaker. It's like putting a label on something, right? It's helpful, yeah.

Yeah, a name tag, if you will, on Stormbreaker. You're traveling the cosmos. You need to mark your stuff, you know? But another set of ruins say, Luce the Dogs of War, which is from Julia Caesar Cry Havoc, let's slip the Dogs of War, or Top Gear, if you are a Top Gear fan. Hammond! Either way.

And then the other... inscription is worthy vengeance, which is from Richard the 3rd for doing worthy vengeance on thyself that didst unworthy slaughter upon others, which is like a kind of a conflicting, that's a really conflicting idea to put on your weapon. Because what's going on in Richard the 3rd at that point is not exactly morally clear, but I guess maybe, you know, just snipped out the phrase worthy vengeance and by itself seems a, Seems good. So yeah, some, some Shakespeare, like a nice throwback to Thor one when they hired Sir Kenneth Branagh and we're trying to do, or, or if you prefer Tony and Avengers, making Shakespeare in the park jokes. So, yeah. No, you weareth her drapes.

I don't know what accent I was doing there, but did my best. Did my darkness. I loved it. Delighted for Sir Kenneth Branagh and his Shakespeare at space approach to Thor. It's good to keep that. connective tissue here. Always love to see Willie Shakes. Love to see the bard pop up anywhere. Great one, Joe. My next one, Chris Hemsworth's wife, his real life partner, Elspataki, Elena from the fast movies, one of the most stunning people who has ever graced this earth. In this movie, as the wolf woman, and this is delightful for a couple reasons. We've mentioned this on many pods before. You mentioned this on Big Pick last week, but she stood in for Natalie Portman

for the kiss at the end of Dark World. And so this is another, this is a continuation of this couple finding a way to kiss on screen in these movies. And this particular wolf sequence, the wolf woman on top of the woman wolf, howling at the moon, just real couples, goals stuff here.

It's remarkable. And also inside of a Thor story, I just love any time a wolf surfaces because, you know, we get, we get to think of our, our dear Fenris wolf and the lore there. And, you know, our deer. Our deer, our deer, our deer, yeah. Yes. Yes. Damask. Okay. I think I put Fenris in the Pet Avengers. Question mark. I have a lot of questions about Fenris as, as Fenris exists in the comic world. I love a wolf. Love a wolf, you know. I know this about you. Okay, speaking of wolf properties you love. Yeah.

I'm going to shout out the throne of scissors we get. This is actually the best Easter egg in the whole thing. That looks like the iron throne except instead of swords and scissors. And this is what the Cronin god, Cork's god is sitting on. And it's, of course, like, you know, call back to some great rock paper scissors jokes in Ragnarok. But it's just like a quick visual gag. And it's, what was the name of that god, Nini of the Nani, I think? And then also just, I'm sorry, I have to shout out the brief god of carpentry aside as they're walking through and like calling out all the gods because, you know, glad to know that, do you think Jesus is invited to the orgy? That's my question.

We'll have to ask Zeus. I mean, Jesus, Jesus is obviously invited to the orgy? Is Jesus going to go to the orgy? That's the question. We got more than a one mailback question about the orgy. I will say that. Great, great. Great side step. All right, Mallory, let's do next one. You know, since you mentioned the callback to the corg rock paper, scissors, humor, and Ragnarok, I'll throw out another corg callback, which is Thor in this film riding Stormbreaker, which, you know, it just looks like he's riding a broomstick, and that's delightful, obviously, but it calls back specifically to the wonderful, you wrote a hammer.

No, I didn't ride the hammer. The hammer rode on your back. No, I used to spit it really fast And it'd pull me off though Oh my God The hammer pulled you off Exchange at Ragnarok Really one of our

finest stretches in cinema So here we go He didn't ride the hammer But he rode Stormbreaker Love to close a loop Pulled you off bro All right My last one is

I don't know if you're a chitty chitty Banger If you ever watched Chitty Shitty Bang as a kid But I did And there's a terrifying villain In that film The Child Catcher

And he had to has this, like, creepy carriage that's made of bars that he puts children in. And I absolutely think that Gore's child carriage is a, is a chitty, shitty, bang, bang reference that is a haunting image for me. Distressing. Yeah, I just thought I'd land on a high note for me. Cheerful. I'm going to go with one that I don't know.

that I don't know if this is actually technically the place or the people in the film because I don't believe that they were named. Perhaps they were and I missed it, but I'm not certain. But regardless, it's an Easter egg. It's a callback to something similar in the comics. So Indigar, at the beginning of the Jason Aaron God Butcher run,

Thor first realizes that the gods are being butchered, that something is happening when a child, young girl of Indigar, is praying and calls to him. And he asks where their gods are. They'd say they have no gods. And he discovers eventually the Slean Skylords, their gods, which actually one of the visuals that we see when the guardians and Thor are going through the hollow calls for help,

the distress calls, one of those visuals is a mirror image of him discovering. the Skylords. And just the way that the characters on Indigar look in the comics very similar to the way that the characters

that Thor and the guardians are fighting on behalf of in the first, not the opening scene with Gore, obviously, but the first Thor scene

and stretch of the film. And also as we hear there, their gods are gone, right? That's why the temple the Thor eventually destroys as empty. So that felt like

like Indigar right there. So that's my final. on. Any others, there were so many more that we want to just rapid fire highlight. Jomey, Steve Arjuna. Did anyone else have any favorites that we haven't hit that you want to call out? One of my favorite gags is that comes at the end of the film when Corr is, you know, going about how wrapping up everything is like, I also made got a family. I met a guy named Dwayne. And it's great because Dwayne is a Cronin and Cronin's are, are rock.

And I was like, ah, no, I see what you did there. Tika, I'm tapped in. Dwayne the Rock. Like, I got it. That was good. That was, that was good. Great stuff.

Arjuna has chimed in in the chat to say that that was his favorite too. Also, this isn't really an Easter egg, but I just want to hit that interstellar joke again because, like, you love this. Well, Mali Porman's been taking a lot of heat for maybe not landing all the Tika humor. And I might have said something similar in the last podcast. But I just want to shout out this joke. Because it's so dry and she delivers it so well because she goes like, you know, she mentions Event Horizon and Interseller.

Yeah. She's like that movie really explains, but she says it kind of earnestly. But sitting at home, we're like, or sitting in the theater, we're like, that's a joke about how Interstellar is largely gibberish. But, and both Intercellar and Event Horizon have that like poke the pen through the paper, you know, example. But yeah, I just, I really loved her delivery of that line. So I just want to shout out Nali Portman, Nailing a joke. Great stuff. Love it.

We have to mention the Strongest Avenger hat, don't we? Sure. Love that cap. Thor just so determined, so offended that Banner was the strongest Avenger in the Quintet, had to scribble on his own merch. So that's its strongest Avenger. Oh, Thor, what a guy. Any others?

Snake reference, calling back to the Loki, turned it into a snake story. Vanguard Serpent connection. Mythology Corner. We're back. That's where Thor dies. It's a snake. Just FYI. I need mythology.

I'm not sure that's going to happen in the comics. I'm just saying a mythology. It's a snake that gets him. So his fear is justified. You know who else almost died from snakes? Hercules. And his crib as a kid.

It's a child. Anyway. Tough one. Very tough. It's a hard look for gods. Snakes. Can't trust him. Looking forward.

to Brett Goldstein sharing a recounting a childhood memory, much as much as thorned in a future I hope they bond. I hope they bond over their fairsons. There you go. You start his rivals. You find that common ground over the snake talk. Yeah. I think they say snakes, why it'd have to be snakes and then they're friends forever. Love it. And they're like, do you also never skip leg day? Good to know, you know. And then Star Lord shows up and he hears they're talking about snakes and he thinks they're talking about like Indiana Jones and starts talking about movies and then we're back. It's all connected in the cosmos. All right.

Should we head to Theory Corner? Should we head to the mailbag? We're going to do it all kind of together. We're going to kick off with some theory-ish discussion prompts. A little soup. A little stew of theories and mailbags because a lot of our mailbag questions were about theories. So we're sort of jamming it all together here. A mead?

It could be. We could quaff some theories right now, for sure. Where do you want to start, Joe? Should we? Should we? We mentioned this yesterday, but do you want to return to very quickly the ebony blade of it all and the possible connections between the ebony blade and all black the necrosword that we see in this film because of the numerous similarities?

Any theories about how that could connect these characters and plot lines in the future or how that might manifest in the MCU? Let me ask you a slightly sideways larger question, which is like, do you think there's any way in which they don't off that Dane Whitman post credits. Because I would have said no, except for Kit Harrington, like, sort of being so eager to come back to the Thrones world makes you worried that like... Can you do the John Snow voice right now that you did on Big Pick? Because that was great.

And I feel like we deserve to hear it again. I don't remember what I said on the Big Pick. I think you said, fine, I'll go back north or something like that. It's great. Fine, I'll go back north, I think. something, but that sounds like more like Liverpool. I'll work on it. I'll perfect it for House of the Track and how about.

But let's talk about your mother when I return. Ebony Blade, I mean, like, is there a wing which, Dame Whitman? They were like, originally like, we're going to do all this stuff with you and then Eternals did not blossom the way they wanted

to, you know, we've talked about this here, there, and everywhere, they're planting all these seeds at the end of these movies. are they going to pay off every single seat that they play in? Or are they like, you know what? Kit, you know, with love and respect to you, we're just not going to go in a different direction. I think it's a great question. I do not know the answer.

Here's what I think. I think that because that stinger, obviously, Dane Whitman is in the Dernal's movie connected to that larger Eternals plot. But because the stinger gave us a blade, I think that there's a way to keep Dane, in the Black Knight and the Ebony Blade, very present in the MCU moving forward and in that larger expanding MCU horror verse that we've talked about regardless of what happens with the

Eternals, because he was sort of separated from them in that singer and at the end of that film. So whether we'll see him in the Blade movie or this connects to an eventual Midnight Sun's plot, I have no idea, but I do think that we will see him again. What value do you then see in drawing a connection between the necros sword and the Ebony Blade other than maybe just making all cursed objects? So a couple of people have shouted this out and I only noticed it on like maybe my third viewing because people have been sort of talking about it. But like they mentioned that the sword is killing Gore, the way in which, the same way in which Milneur is draining Jane's ability to fight the cancer. they say the sword is killing him. That's like in their little like,

back in New Asgard, let's talk about what to do. And they say like, it's infecting him. It's killing him. And then he's cursed. And so when he, when the, when the sword disintegrates and he then dies promptly thereafter,

I think there is like at least a little modicum of setup for that. But I, um, I'm wondering if there is value in putting like, in making all cursed objects. I mean, we've got the dark hold. you know, the Ebony blade, the Necrosword, all these like sort of curse objects

look similar. So not necessarily be connected story-wise, but similar to the way that like magic, though it's colored differently, all kind of looks the same in the MCU, just like sort of a unified look. I don't know, Jomey, do you have any thoughts or feelings about this? Not entirely. I think my big takeaway is that we need more swords in the MCU. That's what it is. Macro sword, Ebony Blade, you know what I mean? Like Valkyrie's Dragon Fang, right? Like, we need more heroes and villains with swords, you know? I'm not saying that we should be getting like Revenge of the Sith.

I was just going to say, this is real. I've been carrying my lightsaber every day for like two months energy from you right here. Do you have it right there? Oh, within arms reach. Within arms reach, Mallory. He was so afraid. He didn't have to stretch for it. He didn't want to stretch for it.

Did arms reach? I'm going around. I'm like, well, look at me. I'm Anakin in Clone Wars. I think we should, we should be doing more of that.

I'm sorry. I love it. I have a full size long claw in my home. I support this. Part of my, part of my thoughts and feelings around Dave Whitman is like, I kind of feel like them doing Dane Whitman and all of that story was them sort of riding the high of thrones.

And since the stock on thrones has come down not all the way down, but has come down a bit. Give Kit Harrington a magical sword. It's very, right. It's very like, oh, we heard you kids like John Snow. Would you like John Snow in our universe? You know? But now John Snow is back. You don't have the numbers.

No, but in all seriousness, I think that we'll see him as as Black, as Black Knight, at least once. Right? They'll give him a shot. And then if that doesn't work, then we can have the. conversation of, ah, you know, what are we really doing here? But I think we'll get to see him wield Ebony Blade at least one time of the MCU. We need to hear Dane Whitman give his version of the,

I looked into his eyes, speech that we got for John in the Nightgink. We need it. I think that, Joe, to your question, to your point about like the similarities, yeah, the fact that the Ebony Blade in the comics is, like, because there was obviously even just in the stinger in the film, there's the way, as you noted, like the Blay looks and moves. There's the summons, the whisper, the call.

The call to, yeah. And then if you go to a comics canon, the way that the Ebony Blade embeds itself in you, in terms of your soul, and kind of like, there's this possessive, like, curse-like quality to it.

That feels very similar. So maybe that is intentional and there will be a link in the origin stories. Because, you know, like we've talked about a lot, the MCU updates comics canon all the time. Maybe there's actually going to be some, because we didn't get the symbiote history for All Black the Necrosword,

maybe these will actually come from the same place in the MCU. Yeah, but like, I think this is a less tantalizing thing to say, but like it could also just be that they have once again presented magical objects that are very similar that we don't, we will never learn if they connect or it's unclear if they connect. Like I think often about the fact that they change the 10 rings to be Bengals instead of rings because they didn't want to do

more like finger-bound objects after the infinity gauntlet. And now we have how many magical bangles across the stories. And maybe they will end up connecting, but we don't know that yet. So perhaps this is just like another version of that. I'm not sure. But it feels too close to be an accident. We'll see.

We'll see. The Abney Blade, like in comics lore, Merlin made the Ebony Blame. And so I don't know. Like, do I want Merlin in the MCU? Maybe. Maybe I do. But if not, like, if it's like a bunch of dark elves who forge these blades or something like that,

because Joe, then a Tony Stark from an alternate earth can come in and again say, dude, you're embarrassing me in front of the wizard. Just singular that time instead of plural because like Merlin is the wizard. Wouldn't that be great? Don't we want that? Isn't that a capital T? If you're like, is this a sideways way for me to get Tony back? Sure.

I love that for you. Yeah. Okay. What's your next? All right. This is a theory that someone folded to me at a party that's last weekend and I really liked it, which is that because all I do is talk about Marvel at parties apparently. But like this idea. Okay.

So the question of like Young Avengers, whether or not we're going to get them or not, it feels like we go. Feels like we are. But like are we and how and how are they going to do it? Definitely. So someone presented this theory of. like, so we've seen Dr. Strange jump into a portal and he's like off doing something with Charlie's thereon, right? He was like, what if slowly all the adults are like side tracked, taken off planet, blah, blah, and there's a threat that comes up and all the adults are gone

and the young Avengers have to like tackle it themselves. Yeah, yeah. That's great. Where of all the adults gone theory is something. And like our, some of our Young Avengers are more young adults than they are kids. You know, like, you know, Kate, I don't know if we're even counting Elina as a possible Young Avenger, but Kate is like, she's in her 20s, right? She's a credit card. But,

I don't know. I think that's kind of fun. Jummi, what do you think as a resident Young Avenger Stan? Well, two things. One, this is excellent for my agenda. I love this theory. And two, this is like a plot line from Young Justice. So everything's coming together for your boy

at this moment right now. This is awesome. I mean, I don't think they need to have all the adults go for there to be a young Avengers plot. Like, you know, they could just be doing their own little thing on the side. And, you know, maybe the adults are busy. But, you know, they're just handling the business on their own. But whatever works, man, whatever gets me, my young Avengers agenda, to fruition, I'm for it. I love it.

I like this a lot, too. This actually, that feels like pretty probable that something like that could happen. really into this. I think the only thing about it is that some of the characters who are likely to be in the Young Avengers have the power to open portals and travel to like, like America Chavez, like could open a portal if all the adults were gone and maybe go find them. So they could in theory do that, but maybe they're like, it's our time now. I love it. Let's just eat pizza and save the world. Yeah. That sounds very like Teen H-HBit and Ninja Turtles to me. I'm into it. The other, like the other The other theory thing we kind of want to talk about before we get to the mailbag questions is not so much like a solid solidified theory, but a question because a couple of years ago when Marvel was documented its future.

And we'll know, you know, Comic-Con is right around the corner. We'll know more about the firmer shape of Marvel MCU going forward very soon. But a couple years ago, all the powers that be of Marvel started talking about this idea of going cosmic and what that would look like, that they were just. just going to jump through every, like, portal and wormhole and whatever that they can find. And Dr. Strange coming in as part of that. The Guardian's already being there is obviously part of that. But my question to you is, like, and obviously, like, multiversal stuff feels part of that. How does it feel? And, like, Eternal is a big part of that. But, like, how does, how does the move to cosmic? How does that feel like it's working for both of you guys? And do you feel like you would, would you call

this a cosmic era of Marvel or is there so much going on now that we can no longer tuck whatever Marvel's doing under like one big umbrella like that? Interesting question. It connects to a little bit of what we were discussing yesterday about the shape of phase four and beyond and what the roadmap is and where we're heading. I do think that this feels like a, not exclusively, certainly, but largely cosmic pursuit in terms of the grand design of, you know, the adventure. The multiverse of it all, as you said, like the eventual, the likelihood of the eventual secret wars,

um, battle world kind of plot, very, very cosmicky, you know, getting eternity here. Obviously, Thor is always going to be a cosmic movie, but like introducing, and we've gotten, you know, snippets of eternity mentions and glimpses before, but to really introduce the, the idea of eternity here, we've gotten multiple glimpses of living tribunal and Easter eggs across recent properties, like, traveling, the multiverse, traveling across timelines, the TVA and Loki, obviously the internals, the celestials, the number of new realms that have entered the story. I think that that's one of the reasons why, even though some of the larger shape of

Phase 4 feels very spread out. I don't mind that because I actually, I love a cosmic story and I'm excited about that roadmap, such that it is. But then I really like crave for and crave and large. for those grounding neighborhood rooted stories, like many of which I assume will continue to see on Disney Plus, the ones that take place in communities, and the ones that are very, very much that old,

like your neighborhood X, right? Like, I think we'll want that to feel like still connected to the shape of Earth and the pockets within it as we had two many pocket dimensions across the cosmos. What do you both think? What do you think, Jimmy? I think that as the story gets bigger and bigger, the lines between, like, cosmic and not cosmic get a little blurred.

You know, I remember the beginning of the MCU is very much like, the space stuff happens in space, Earth stuff happens on Earth, and they don't really interact for the most part. And, you know, we saw in Infinity War and endgame, those come together and they came together pretty well. And yeah, just as this thing gets so big, you can't really separate the two. You know, you can't untangle that web.

And so as like I'll say, we go into like Secret Wars, which, you know, we all think that's where they're headed. You can't, you can't unroll, you can't put the toothpaste back in the bottle, right? And so this, you know, I'm much to see as we move on from phase four, to phase five, like how they interweave all the interesting, eternal, you know, big idea,

you know, living tribunal, celestials, all that stuff with all the, you know, little guys, Spider-Man swinging through, you know, Central Park trying to get to class. Matt Murdoch is trying to win a case. You need that balance, though. Yeah, you know, you do. That's like always been so central to these stories. It was interesting that one of the, the eternity, the person. to the gate of eternity at the end, that whole sequence, like we see so many classic

Marvel tantalizing statues, you know? And the watcher is one of them, right? And like, that's a fun thing to think about. The watcher is like a central driving force and what if. We haven't seen the watcher in live action, you know, bring, bring the watcher to live action. But then that's another. P.S., unless you're watching Westworld, because I have to say that Jeffrey Wright is, like, doing some real watcher shit this season. Yeah. The head is, the head is shaved smooth. And he's, got a lot of like all seeing all knowing powers this season. Does every episode of Westworld this season open with space, time? No?

No, well, yes, but it's just me at home saying that while the West World logo pops up. Oh, God. I love that you brought up Infinity War and Endgame, Jomey, because that was that, especially Endgame does such a fun job of acknowledging that blend of street level and, like, when they ask, like, who here has been to space? Yeah. And you get that just like really fun Natasha Clint moment where they're just sort of like, where the fuck are we?

Like, we're a long way from Budapest, essentially, you know? So, um, yeah. I love seeing the, that one of my favorite shots still is like the reflection of the, the cosmos and Steve Rogers eye. It's great. Makes you think back to Tony's eye as he's falling through the portal and Avengers. There you go. Space came.

I mean, they, the whole face too. plot in the first Avengers movie is because Thor came to Earth. So the incursion of the cosmos and the blend has been there since, you know, the fourth Marvel movie way back when. Right. But I think it's like a slowly turning the water up on the like boiling pot of the frog in terms of like audiences. Yeah. Well, and it's inverting it too, right? What can you handle? Yeah. And it's like now we've, we've brought you up on the steady diet of like more earthbound heroes and now we're going to see how much you can hang with. And because the glimpse, obviously, again,

we had the Guardians, we had the Thor movies, etc., but so much of the view of the cosmos was through the perspective, through the lens of those earthbound heroes in the earlier phases. And now it's more of a mix and often flipped,

where the characters we're going to be spending a lot of our time with are the cosmic characters and these larger forces. And then we have to be kind of pulled back in to the Cape Bishops of it all, which again, I'm, you know,

give me some lucky the pizza dog mixed in with my living tribunal talk. That's what I want. Take lucky to space, you cowards. Cosmo could show them around. Yeah, we've got to have the watcher come back and just, like, sit down and have a dinner with the, with the bros from Hockey, you know. It's like, you guys are everywhere. I see your trucks.

Trust the Ruro everywhere. What's going on? Why are you guys involved in anything? Boy, it's been a minute. My bros. It could have been so much more. Like, put the truck. Trax Boot Mafia and Jonathan Majors is King in every single property.

Just like both of them somewhere in every single thing you do. And I promise I'll be happy and I'll never come back again. I think your phone is ringing. Marvel's calling because that's such a great idea. Hello? Kevin Figey's at you? Kevin? Hello?

How many Marvel bucks do I get for this idea? All right. Great stuff. This podcast is brought to you by Carvana. Selling your car should feel like one less thing on your list, not one more. With Carvana, it is. Just go to Carvana.com, and to your license plate or Vin, and get a real offer down to the penny. No back and forth, no surprises, just an experience you can trust. Like your offer?

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We got a question from Steve Steve you know you could just like text us Right you don't have to put the questions In the mailbag Like pop a little chat in the Zoom Steve Williams for him right? You can come on you know what I'm saying? First question comes from Steve

When they mentioned Hella in the play It seemed clear that the actor Would do some stunt casting and McCarthy was a pretty good payoff. Who would have been your dream casting choice? Steves would have been Kate Winsley. Can you imagine if Kate Winslet had showed up as Ella in the stage production there?

That would have been unbelievable. I simply would have passed away. I think Kate's a really fun choice because she and she and the other Kate are like such sort of like Oscar contemporary actresses. But I kind of like the idea of getting another Australian. So I would pick Rose Byrne, who is like so good at comedy and just like have her really play up the Australian to sort of like kind of take the piss out of Cape. Because like Melissa McCarthy's funny, but she's not taking the piss out of Kate Blanchett in any way whatsoever.

Whereas like Rose Bird, I think really could have could have done that. So that's my choice. That's inspired. My pick, I'm sticking with the. let's have an Oscar caliber, an Oscar-winning star come in and just goof around for a few minutes and shock everyone.

I'm going with Jessica Chastain. I almost picked Chastain, but I don't think Chastain would do it because of her history with Marvel. Sorry, that's taking the prompt too seriously. Sorry. Would Chastain say yes? It's a really fun pick,

and I thought of it better. It would just, it would be like one of, one of the most meaningful moments in Sean Fennessee's moviegoing life. So I had to advocate for it. Like just that Chastain's there at all

or that Chessinging there in the like clinging heligarbs. All of it. Jessica Chastain. Goddess of Death. Yeah. What a time that would have been. Any other picks? Really good. Jemey. So I don't know if you guys

know this, right? This is breaking news. But Clay Blanchet was in Lord of the Rings. as gladrio. And I know this because Mal and Jason Manzukas bullied me in watching the Lord of the Rings extended editions. Just gently encouraged you to parking.

That's not what happened. That's not at all what happened. But you had a great time. I had a great time. And now I'm like, you know, we had, you know, as an elf, Kate Blanchett in the MCU, why not just have another elf? My girl Arwin, live Tyler.

Come in and be amazing. Amazing. Crazy. I'm crying. Love Liv Tyler here. Wow. Listen, incredible. Could you imagine Liv Tyler coming in with the hella energy? Yeah. Just comedy gold. I'm tapped in. I need it. I need it. Just more Lord of the Rings characters in Marvel. Let's just do it. I know. It was so funny because I thought about that first second too, but for some reason my brain went to Miranda Otto. And then I was like, nobody knows who Miranda Otto is outside of like the Sabrina fans and the diehard, Lord of the Rings fan. So maybe that wouldn't be as fun. But live is such a better idea.

And that's all the women in Lord of the Rings. Tough. Sorry. Rosie's there too. Rosie Cotton's also there. Anyway. That's good. God.

So good. All right. Our next question comes from Tress Rice. Do you think we've seen? the last of a Tyka take on Thor? So there was this like interesting interview. A couple of Tyke has been giving interviews all over the shop, but like there's an interesting interview that he gave where he was saying that he and

Chris Hensworth were surprised by the Thor will return card that pops up at the end of the movie. I call a cap on that a little bit to use a Midnight Boys bit because like Chris Hensworth definitely signed a contract for more than one movie after. of Avengers Endgame. So I don't think that he's surprised that they, maybe they didn't tell them they were putting the card up. Because they didn't promise when or in what film Thor would return.

They were just sort of like, we've signed Chris Hemsworth for more movies. But Tyke has said that like he would definitely do another Thor movie. Not only be like, not only if I have a great idea, that classic Hollywood, if there's a good idea, I'll do it. But also post the divisive reception, he's given an interview where he's like, I'd be happy to divide the fans again on the Thor beat.

You know, so I think he would. The question is like, do, is that what folks want? I mean, I would like it, but I don't know. What do you guys think? Regarding the end card thing, I, I don't know. I'm with you. Like, that's just what Marvel movie doesn't end unless all of the characters are annihilated by promising their return.

Like there's not really a version of this where being surprised by that makes a ton of sense. I would love to see Tyca make another Thor movie. I hope that it happens. I hope that he and Hemsworth continue to explore the character and this sliver of the realm together. And I in general am like not a fan of super intense internet blowback.

like leading to a chain of just a swift change in previously successful creative planning. So I think that would be like probably a mistake and that certainly there is ample evidence that Tygo Adi can make a great Thor movie. I think the question of how they intend to use Thor moving forward connects to some of what you were asking earlier, Joe. And that's a, that's a question. I think how interested Tyca is in like playing in the sandbox if the sandbox grows and a lot of other grains of sand from other films and other properties are going into that same sandbox is

like maybe a germane prompt. But I hope he makes another one. I was curious to ask you if you think, and I, again, I'm not saying I think this is true. I hope this is not true. But we did get a couple of mailbag questions about this, so maybe it's worth quickly hitting here. Do you think that any of the reception to this movie or chatter around it will have any bearing on the Star Wars project?

I knew that's what you're going to ask. Like, absolutely I do, because Lucasfilm is the most fucking. skittish, gun-shy, reactive to, you know, fan complaint studio that exists. That would be a real shame. They are always looking for an excuse to fire a director or a writer based on the wind blowing one way or another. So, yeah, absolutely I do think that, you know. I really hope that doesn't happen. I won't take a Star Horse movie badly.

Jomey, what do you think? So I'm looking at the quote right. now and it's basically like I'm not joking, I saw in the theater and I was like oh shit, really? Even Chris was like what, but of course he'll be back. He's the best character, I mean, I may be of a little bias, but he's the most fun to watch.

So I think like he might have just been taking the piss but also Tyka? A little bit of... You can say I'm not joking and still be joking. That's something that can happen. That's fine. But at the same time, it's like maybe they don't know where he's coming back next, right? Maybe he's just like

no one's made a call. they haven't discussed a fifth Thor movie. So when you definitively say Thor will return is like, yeah, but like where doing what, you know? But of course, I think ultimately. Also, no one involved with one property is going to say, here's the roadmap for this character before Kevin Feigey rolls out the 10-year plan that he's been teasing.

Like, even if he does know, he's not going to say it. But ultimately, I think that Taika gets to finish his trilogy. And, you know, because the first two Thor movies, while, you know, people ride for the dark world, that and Mao for whatever weird reason, you know. You know, revisit the, take a couple hours for yourself and revisit it and get back to me. I ask.

I would literally rather, I would literally rather to lead. Dunk my head in sand for two hours than to rewatch that film. This is something that, okay, so you know how like, so the Russo brothers do their run as directors on, the Marvel movies. And when they're done, they like, they did this whole event at Comic-Con when they were done where they were like, this is our new shingle. We're going to like be making all these movies, blah, blah. And they've made a bunch of movies of varying degrees of quality.

Like the gray man is coming out, et cetera. But none of them have like exploded, perhaps the way that they might have expected it. They would have. So something, a friend of the pod, Dave Gonzalez, the idea he floated to me the other day when I was like, I was like, you know, because we're working on this Marvel book together. I was like, should we like change the arc of this to like the rise and fall? Like, is that too, is that too alarmist? What do you think? Just floating it?

And he's like, no, they're going to announce the Russo brothers come back for secret wars. And then everyone's like back in and we're all on track. And I was just like, oh, I'm not saying he doesn't know, he doesn't know anything. This is just like a whatever. But I was like, oh, if they did do that, we're doing secret wars and we're bringing back the Russo brothers. No, I can go back in my tweets. I've got tweets from like 2018, 2019 that are like Russo's, right.

We like, you know, stop the cat. Like get in the lap. Get in the lab. We know Secret Wars is coming, bro. You got the whiteboard with 150 characters. I start working now because, you know, clock's ticking, you know. I love it. All right.

What's next? Next up on this here mailbag from Taylor with Hercules and the fantastic Brett Goldstein reveal. What other Olympic gods do you want to see featured? And who would you want to portray them? Taylor needs Needs Needs Artemis

played by Nethely and Manuel Yes father I understand What does he say To say yes father That's my

Roy can't impress Just like that Just like that Yes father I have this theory This working theory About If you grew up

Loving Greek mythology You're either an Artemis girl Or you're an Athena girl That's very gender normative and obviously young men and non-binary love Greek mythology as well. However, I was an Athena girl and I was actually a little bum to see this like, you know, sort of a slight background extra playing Athena because I was like this is, and also there's this really

weird cut to the Athena that's in the sort of audience when Zeus gets a hole in the chest and she just sort of like doesn't really have a reaction at all. And I was like, why did you cut to her? his daughter, like, she should either be upset or be like, yeah, my dad sucks. He deserved that whole on his chest. Like one of those two reactions. But I love Athena. She's my favorite of the great gods. So I would love to see an Athena appearance in a Hercules sort of adjacent Thor property.

What do you think? Do you have any dream casting in mind? For Athena? I don't know. Let's just make Sean Fantasy happy and put Jessica Chastain in there. Okay, I have an Athena question, though, and a larger related question. Yeah. What is the like Eternals impact here of like having a Minerva in Eternals?

Well, just the whole like way that the eternal, they're telling the stories and they're influencing our meaning the people of Earth's like understanding of mythology and like the Thena of it all. that respect in terms of the connection to Athena? Is it just like, it doesn't matter? You just broke my brain. Yeah, I think I've seen this around. I've seen people asking this question. And I think it's one of those things that Marvel is like, oh, no, I didn't think they'd think about it that hard.

So yeah, I think they're playing fast and loose, establishing all these God pantheons and all these afterlives and like all this sort of stuff. I like the idea of it. I just don't know that they sat down and had, have had the long lead chat. of how do deities work in our universe, you know? So, okay, fair enough. Here's my pick.

Pluto, Lord of the underworld, take us to Hades. We have a lot of underworld action and Marvel right now, and I want to keep it going. The, you know, restorative resurrection powers handy, the way that you can use a power like that to kind of leverage yourself against other Olympians, other gods, seems like it could be a useful thing

in the plot of a film. And when I was thinking about casting, if these characters are going to debut in the Thor movie or Hercules movie, in this franchise, or adjacent to this franchise, we need someone who can hang with the tone, right?

So Pluto has to be like menacing, but we need someone inside of these movies who could be very, very funny. I found my off thinking about the boys. Need someone to come in from the boys universe who could be

deeply intimidating and intense, but also just make us cackle. Let's bring Anthony Star in as Pluto. I was going to say, is that the Australian

national anthem I hear? You're bringing another Ozzy into the mix? I was going to suggest Carl Arbitt and then remembered that he's already had a tremendous run inside of not only the

MCU, but the Thor franchise. I would also So on the bring the boys into the MCU band, I would also happily accept Chase Crawford as Hermes. Give me more fast people at the MCU. Oh my God. It would be great. That's good.

I love Chase Crawford. That's pretty good. Jolms? I like that. Jemmy. Oh, man. So, you know, look, I've been on a little avatar kick. Well, I'm more than an avatar kick, you know what I'm saying?

But I'm going through. And I'm currently on book one, water. And so my first thought was. bro, we got to get Poseidon. You know what I'm saying? Let's get some real Agua going. Took me a second to figure this out, right? Because he's not the biggest guy,

but I feel like if he could grow his hair out, he's got the chops. Let's make Orlando Bloom Poseidon. Oh, my God. Come on. Wow. He's not the biggest dude. Good old Will Turner back from the bottom of the ocean.

Back from the bottom of the ocean. Oh, my lord. Wow. I love that. like he could make it happen. We got to hit the gym. You know what I'm saying? We got to, you know, beside him, you see all the statues.

He's got, it's six packs have six packs. You understand what I'm saying? Orlando Bloom is like, I regret to him for him that I do follow him on Instagram. And he is like a gym bro now. This is like, oh, yeah? Yeah. He's no longer Elvin in, in shape at all. The, uh, uh, uh, this is when we start like borrowing for the Percy Jackson universe, right?

and like say like should we break Logan Lerman over to do something I don't know anyway what's next Alicia wants to know

do you think Thor's adopted who do you think Doors adopted daughter will become Is she an offspring of eternity from the comics

Like empathy My friend pointed out She was wearing The colors of Young Hulk in the end Could there be something there Either way

Will she be a young Avenger or Axel? And we got like a similar question from Rob. Was her star-filled appearance in the reflection of coincidence or is Gore-slash-thor's daughter based on singularity from the A-Force comics? Do you think she wakes her away to the increasingly crowded young Avengers squad? I don't know. So here's my feeling about Olives color love.

I don't know that we would see her outside of, it all depends on the timing. if Hemsworth's daughter is of age at that point, if they want to even keep it as Hemsworth daughter, because as you know from Cassie Lang, they have no issue recasting and recasting and recasting a daughter slash young Avenger role, right? So probably harder to recast one of your signature stars, children.

It's in the contract. It's in the contract. That's the question. Is he like put my daughter in as his character so that we can make movies together forever? Or is he like, this would be a fun little thing to do with my daughter at the end of one movie, you know? So that all depends.

But then also, if I had a pick between the two, and don't give me wrong, I liked love a lot. I thought she was delightful. It's Axel Hindel's son for me every day of the week. I loved Kieran in this movie so much. And I would love to see him on The Young Avengers. Not that that was really the question, but that's how I'm choosing the answer. It was part of the first question. I took Or Axel to me and put Axel in the Young.

Yeah, we have two kind of questions here about, one about the larger, Young Avengers of it all and then the just who might love be and how might the eternity of it all manifest. Axel and the Young Avengers feels like a lock. We have so many members of Jomey's Young Avengers here. Jomey presents the Young Avengers. The roster is

swollen. I was going to say we have to have a conversation. Are we are we too stacked with the roster? No, because what they've done is just put a lot of players, potential players on the board, and whoever pops, that's who they

could pick. You know what I mean? I guess, yeah. If they're like, hey, we thought this character would pop better than they did. They're not. So they're not on the Young Avengers, but Axel Heimdelson. But I feel like there's some locks, right? Like, you know, Kate, obviously, Cassie Lang, um, yeah, Eli.

What's her name? Miss Marvel. But if you were, but if you were planning to use Eli, wouldn't they have actually? given him more to do in Falcon the Winter Soldier, that kid had like three lines. Like, that, you know, that's what I thought going into Falcon of the Winter Soldier, but like, why didn't they actually use him then

if that was a soft launch for that character? You know what I mean? I don't think they're going to feel like they need to be beholden to who's in the lineup in the comics, you know? Like, I don't think they're going to hold themselves to that. Yeah, I think many of the figures from the comics will be in there, but we could get others too. Yeah, like Billy and Tommy, like it feels like there's like four.

four, five, six people were like, all right, for sure going to be there. And like, how deep does the roster go? You know, are we like, we got people on a bench, like you got loving Axel. Axel's a six man. You know, hey, Kate, she's got a dinner date tonight. Can you come up?

Can you fly through? You feel me? Like, it'll be interesting to see how they balance all that out. I'm so excited either way, but it's just, the roster is deep. It is. I think the part of what, like, we can have characters who come in as reinforcements,

right, to, like, grow the team. You start, much like with the Avengers, you start with your initial nucleus and then you build and expand from there. Like, is Kid Loki going to be in the first formation of the Young Avengers that we see? Probably not, but I don't make it there eventually. And I would actually say maybe not at all because I don't think that kid made like a huge, that's exactly the kind of thing that I'm talking about where like with love and respect to that kid, I don't think he made a huge impression in that episode.

And so like, you know, if he had been like, like Axel Heindelson who shows up and you're just sort of like, this kid rules. Like, this is great. But you're right. I mean, like, America Chavez or R or Rie, like, you know, or Kamala, yeah, like, all of those characters that are getting, like, such a spotlight on them launch for sure. But, yeah. Axel, bring him in.

Axel is amazing. I can't wait to see Axel, the Young Avengers. That's going to be great. In terms of the other part of these questions about love, though, and, like, eternity's powers being a part of love, like, what do you both make of that in terms of the impact that might have moving forward? I think taking into account your larger point, Joe, that we don't, it's impossible to say like if or when we'll see this character again. But I think even beyond that, just introducing the idea

of eternity, introducing is not the right word, because we've gotten the glimpses like in the temple and morag, you know, seeing the four cosmic entities, seeing eternity and death and infinity and entropy in the six infinity stones. We had that, I see it, eternity quill moment in the next Guardians film with the stars in his eyes. Gunn has like since said on Twitter that that's not what that was. And nothing is more far Marvel canon than a James Gunn than a James Gunn tweet, truly.

But still... But don't worry. It doesn't mean, it doesn't mean what it should mean in comics lore. I mean, he loves to engage with the theorizing, which is always like, it's always interesting to see him

respond to the theories. The fact that every, in Marvel Comics canon, the fact that every universe has its own eternity is like interesting to me because, you know, eternity is this like immensely powerful entity. So introducing that power, that omnipotence, that ability to like manipulate time and space and matter and reality. Obviously, the way where it's presented here is this like wishing well idea, which, you know, if you could grant any wish, then all of that is kind of incorporated into that

inherently, right? You can change anything. Any universe in the multiverse is going to have another version of that eternity, regardless of what happens with love, who may now have those powers because of the way we hear Corg describe, you know, born of eternity. Obviously, we don't have the ability to get the exact word for word line like we do if the movie's up on Disney Plus already. But there's the, it's presented to us like those powers are incorporated into love and then we see Love's powers at the end. So we also got, we got some questions as well and other people were theorizing about the love character then. The character named Love in Marvel Comics. And another cosmic entity.

Like, could it be that? I don't, I don't think so either. The singularity visual image is pretty striking, but again, there's the visual similarity to eternity already. So I don't know. That's a lot of power. The eternity is immensely powerful. It's fascinating to think of how that could come into play.

Jummy, you have a theory? I think it makes love a target, right? And so maybe, you know, future Thor films or just something that the Young Avengers could handle. Actually, I don't think they can handle that. That's a lot of power going on over there. But something that's interesting to think about going forward is love is from eternity. Eternity is an immensely powerful force.

People would seek that out. And they found out that there was a little child of eternity going on. They want to see if they could get that power for themselves. So something to think about. The girl born of eternity. What I feel like they've done for themselves there in phrasing it that way is, leave the door open for her to be however powered they want her to be. That's what I think.

I mean, we're shooting purple beams out of our eyes over pancakes. Yeah. Pan flaps. Thank you very much. Just wielding Stormbreaker like it's nothing. Yeah. I think that and doing the old leap,

how many times did they do the old Ragnarok leap move? Five times? Every time. Love it. Love a leap. Doesn't miss. Does it miss? Love a slow-mo leap.

I think that Yeah, I think because she's a Taika creation essentially, I think what that means is that she could just be very malleable and have whatever powers they decide they want to get her. So I don't mean to side step that answer.

I just don't, I think they're intentionally not boxing themselves. I think that's right. And then again, we can just see Eternity in its original form elsewhere in the MCU, possibly because of other universes. They can do anything in... It's very left, wide open.

makes sense. All right, our next question comes from Nicole. Love this. Is Infinity Cones offensive? Thanos was right, Mug, is one sardonic joke, but a whole ice cream shop in what apparently is a tourist town seems a little too lighthearted for the destruction of half the universe. And how long can we get until we get Infinity Cones at Avengers campus?

Nicole is asking the hard-hating questions. I have a couple of answers to this really quickly. Number one, again, if you watch Westworld, or you don't have to watch West World, if you watch any of the Jurassic Park movies, you know that people have like no compunction about like profiting off of a horrific massacre. That's essentially what Jurassic World is like, there was a horrible massacre at a dinosaur park. Let's open it up to everyone. Surely it'll be fine now. But I also, I really wanted to make sure that this question was in here because I have a, I don't go on the Facebook group because I'm too sensitive for what has. happens over on the Ringerverse Facebook group,

but I do have a spy in there who sends me things sometimes. And he sent me a list. Apparently there was a thread where they were like coming up with names for what would be served at the Infinity Cones ice cream shop, scoop shop, as Mallory would say. And I thought I'd share my top five. Low key lime pie. Infinity Smoors.

Rocky Roads. That was the distressing Charles. idea for the Gomorah flavor on Midnight Boys. That was upsetting to hear. And then, I'm so sorry, I didn't hear the Midnight Boys did this. And then someone was asking, of course, of stark raving hazelnuts and hunkunker and hunkerunco burning fudge. We're going to be on the menu.

These are the Benajiris, obviously, thanks. But I think the number one with a bullet option here is Jane Bananas Foster. I love this. As an incredible, yeah. Love a Bananas Foster. Some caramel. deliciousness. Oh, that's wonderful.

The answer to the question is, yes, Infinity Coens is immensely offensive and quite rude. Half of the Asgardian refugees on the statesmen were killed by Thanos, and then half of the survivors were snapped away. This is a very weird thing to have on New Asgard. It is interesting to me that, like, again, to invoke my favorite installment in the history of the UBCU team, Thor, the way that Thor does not understand money and commerce and Midgardian exchanges and the passage of time,

like there's that amazing part where Daryl's saying, explaining that he needs rent every fortnight. And Thor's like, I'll get it to you in a century. It's so funny. So the idea that that capitalism, that corporate greed, that the merch, that all of that had to come for new Asgard, as they cemented themselves as a part of this mid-guardian existence. Not surprising. Not surprising at all. Okay.

In one of like the many, many Easter egg breakdown YouTube videos that I watched, one of them was claiming that, um, Volstag's face is on one of the cruise ships, um, out in the bay there. And we see three cruise ships. I'm wondering if like the Warriors three are like, each have a cruise ship named after them. And I'm like,

That's weird and tough. I'm going to be honest, I just assumed that was like biking cruise line getting in on the. No, I was like, that's Norwegian cruise lines coming through. Oh, man. This is, is infinity cones offensive. Yes. But here's my theory, right? They're like, hey, you know, we want to do this thing.

Infinity cones is a great idea. The only way they get into town is like, look, they donate a portion of the proceeds to displaced blipped individuals. Right? That's the selling point. That's how they get, that's how they get on the ground.

You know what I'm saying? Because like Valky would be like nuts. Be like, hey, man, other people died. You can't really be putting this up here. And like, whoa, hold on. We give money to the community. You know, we'll help y'all out.

She's hawking old spice for a reason, you know? She's doing what she's got to do as king, you know? I don't trust, you know, cooperation. right but when they're like hey we're going to like, hey, we're going to slide y'all to check, you know what I'm saying? Then you got to start thinking like, ah, you know? So that's my only, that's got to be it. That's got to be it.

There's no other explanation. They had to, we're going to give New Asgard, you know, some money because I know y'all been through it a little bit. And she's like, all right, say less. I'll have one Jane Bonatas Fosters, please. But here's my follow-up question. Is Sam Wilson seeing any of the profit from the Infinity Absolutely not.

Absolutely not. No. My man, he going there. Can Sam get some fucking money? He going there for some falcon fudge. They're like, nah, bro. You got, I need, you need to pay that $2.99 for that scoop right here. Come back.

Come back. No, sir. Eat that back. All right. Our next question comes from House of a Thousand Fabrics. Which character in Love of Thunder should get the next standalone on Disney Plus series. This is easy for me.

Valkyrie. King Val. The Avengers of King Val. I need it. If Tesla wants to do it, she should do it because, listen. Everything we just talked about is a part of the show. It's like West Wing, but make it new Asgard. Or parks and recreation, but make it new Asgard.

I mean, this would be an incredible television program. Also, it's established already. and part of our understanding on our internal roadmap for phases four, five, and six that Axel is in Young Avengers has stated in Toothnasher and Toothrinder in Pet Avengers

that's just a given to me so we get to play in other areas here. They'll show. All right, that was easy. We're in. What's our next question? Love that for us. Next question comes from Mariah.

Rank the needle drops. There's too much here. So we decided we were just each going to pick one to sort of like talk about, right? Yeah. Let's each pick our favorite. I'm going to bossily go first.

Do it. And say, I got really deep into November rain, like research for some reason. So November rain plays over the, you know, there's several Guns and Roses songs on this soundtrack, obviously. November Rain plays over the Battle with the kids, et cetera. And it is not the guitar solo from November Rain, because to be clear, there are three guitar solo. in November rain. So this is specifically the outro solo. One of, I, with respect to Eddie Munson,

I think this is the greatest guitar solo of all time, which is what Slash plays in the outro of November Rain. A song that took Axel Rose 10 years to write, first of all. Secondly, it's about... Did he do it with demo bats flying out of it? Okay? Like, mental demo bats. Demo bats in the belfry, I think.

But like, the, um, The song is about sort of trying to connect with someone and needing someone, like, you know, the frame that is repeated over the end is like, you know, everyone needs someone. Like you're not alone. Everyone needs someone. Which sort of matches, of course, like Jane showing up for Thor and all this sort of stuff and the kids all becoming a unit fighting together. But also, like, that song or at least the very, very famous video that has like more than a billion views on YouTube that comes with that song. It's like one of the most popular music videos all time. It's a bizarre music video, but it's a wedding into a funeral.

Like, it's a wedding, and then the bride is in a casket. And nobody knows what's going on, including members of Guns and Roses or like, Axel was on one. We have no idea what that music video was. But so this idea of like Jane showing up, signing her own death warrant to, like, show up to fight. And like, so this like great love story culminating in this, like, tragic death. I don't know if Tycho is thinking that hard. Maybe he's just like this guitar solo bangs, but I just, I really, I love the use of November rain.

Poignant. What a great pick. I'm, uh, I'm zagging in the guns and roses laden metal experience that is this movie. I am picking as my favorite needle drop, the absolutely iconic use of Enya's only dime. This killed me in the theater. I was laughing so hard. We were all cracking up.

This was just, it honestly floored me. It is such a great accompaniment to the initial story type sequence, this rapid pass, this like golden drenched pass through Thor's life. It's a real mood. And as you're saying, Joe, like the lyrics actually work quite poetically when you're thinking about this long. trail of Thor's life and the way that these deep attachments that he forms are ultimately, even though they're very meaningful to him in terms of the span of time, quite brief. Blips, blips in another way in the MCU here.

And so it's very somber, but the choice to use it is so playful. I just loved it. Who can say what Tyca will do next? What movie he'll make next? only time. No one's going to sing with me? No one's. I'm so excited for karaoke.

And I'm going to make you do anya. Never. I'll go to karaoke to watch or maybe like Okerina, something. Some Enia for you at karaoke. Show me what do you think? So here's the thing, right? I'm a typical, I'm going to steal from now. I'm going to use two picks.

I don't smuggle. Listen. Mary J. Blige and the MCU was something I didn't know I needed, but it was just so funny to see Jane and Valkyrie bump their heads to some family affair for Mary J. Blige. You know what I'm saying? I didn't know that Valkyrie, you know, when she was out, New Asgard was spending time at the cookouts out there. You know what I'm saying? Maybe in her travels, she had happened upon a barbecue and was like, what's going on? Like, what y'all got? And somebody put her, somebody put her on a queen and like, yo, what? That's fire. That's fire. Do you think Valkyrie shows up to every cookout? out with like a barrel of liquor. Just like on her, yeah, just like on her shoulder. Yeah. What's going on? And I was like, hey!

Yeah. When they were loading up the boat, she said only essentials. Yeah. She's like, that's an essential. Yeah. But the one song that I found myself listening to, I don't know if this even counts as a needle drum or not. But the one song that I was really rocking with was in the end credits, rainbow in the dark. When I, when we were driving home from the screening, that's what I played in the car.

I was like, hey, yo, this is some heat. is this what y'all was listening to back then this was fire. It's fire. Loved it. It's loving it. Great ones. Great ones. So good. All right.

We got a question from Jeremiah, another double hitter. Can we get a background on the history of Ahla in the comics? Can has someone come back to life from there? If so, does this open the door for Thor 5 with Jane being the main character, similar to how Sam will be the main character in Cap 4? and another one from Ian. Valhalla questions. Is the 616 Loki who died at the beginning of Infinity War in Valhalla?

If so, would or will he be the one in Grethor when he eventually enters? Could other dead MCU heroes, Nat, Tony, et cetera, also be in Valhalla? Mal, do you want to fight any of this? Sure. I mean, I'll leave the mythology corner work to you, Joe. But we did get a lot of Valhalla-centric questions. I will say in terms of just the Marvel. aspect of it all, like the hall, the afterlife for the Asgardians, where the Asgardians

heroes go to die. I think there was a little bit of like retconning or updating of the exact moment when you, you know, needing to die in battle to go there because obviously like when Odin turns into Valhalla dust, he's not in battle. Though he is in as always a battle with the truth and with candor with his family members. So maybe that counts. Who can say. But it was such a weird. It was a really weird thing because like, so Sif's dying. right next to the battle. And if she had died there, I feel like she would have got,

like, Jane dies after the battle, technically. Yeah, I think Scyth would have been in, and that was just more about the, the bit for the arm joke. Another Easter egg, you know, the severing of an arm for, for Thor and the comics run and others as well. To the Loki question,

I definitely think that Loki, Loki would be in Valhalla, that the fact that we see Jane here, you know, Loki's Yotenheim roots, but his embrace at the end there, calling himself Odinson, his embrace of the Asgardian way in the final moments in that timeline,

I think he would be waiting there for Thor and I think that Thor could show him the back tat and it would be, it would be great. I hope we get to see that. I don't think that Nat or Tony would be in Valhalla, sadly, given that they are not connected to the Asgardian way. What do you think, Joe? Yeah, and I mean, in comics

specifically, like, so in the comics, Jane Foster, dies and then is brought back by Thor and Oden and becomes Valkyrie. Right. And just so she decides she's not ready to go to Valhalla. And also we should say that the characters in Thor comics are resurrected all the time. Like Thor is reborn so many times. And I mean, and this is the thing about Valhalla in the mythology is that like Valhalla is just like basically uploading heroes to the cloud, right?

Because like in Norse mythology, essentially if you're a hero and you're, you die. You go to Valhalla until Odin needs you for Ragnarok. And then he calls you back. Classic Odin to help fight Ragnarok. Classic fucking Odin dips into the Odin sleep whenever he needs a rest or the duck out of an uncomfortable situation. But will he let you enjoy your eternal peace.

He will not. No. That's nuts. He really put you on call. He puts you on call. He's like, hey man, appreciate the work you did. I need you to be got to fight this battle. Odin never lets you silence your notifications or log out of slack.

Never. Odin and the Valkyries decide who goes to Valhalla. It's not every hero. It's like they are just recruiting the crem de la Crem. So it's like an honor to go to Valhalla because Odin has chosen you for a future battle. This is like, you know, think about the war, the war boys in Mad Max Ferry Road talking about going to Valhalla, right? And it's kind of, it's kind of pertinent here because remember how, you know, the sun god that gore encounters at the beginning is like, there's no eternal reward.

Stop gobbling my fruit and get the fuck out of my oasis, you know? And so the fact that there is an eternal reward for, because while you're in Valhalla waiting to be summoned for battle, you do get to like drink meat out of the udders of goats and like fuck around all day and fight and then your wounds are healed at night and then you just get to do it again the next day. The problem I see for Jane, Is I'm not sure that like Goatheedguzzling and like fighting all day is on her

wish list, you know? So will she be entertained in Valhalla? I hope so. I don't know that there's a lab in Valhalla is my concern for Jane. We've had a lot of the magic coming to the science. She can bring the science to the magic, you know? Yeah.

For the nerds who died in battle and are like, we don't want to spend all day fighting. And goat guzzling. And she's like, well, come to science class. So two things. Go utter meed guzzling. Yeah. It's a nuts phrase.

That's definitely part of the orgy as well. That's absolutely like just out of pocket. But two, it's interesting. It's interesting you say that because you mentioned, you know, Oden and just picking up people from viola saying like, hey, come up. We need, we need you. Like, hey, we got to get, we got to get this content. of. I need you to write 3,000 words on why, you know, the Big 12 becoming the Big 16 is a problem, right at 3 a.m. You know, but we joked about, we talked about Secret Wars a little bit.

Oh my God. Odin is a Big 12 fan is, I'm going to be thinking about that for a while. Odin is so mad that Texas, Texas and Oklahoma went to the SEC. But if you can get Oregon, Cal, Stanford, you know what I'm saying? We can. open up the recruiting pool to California. Now we've just got, you know what I'm saying? All the talent. But now, Thor could call, he could call Heimdahl. He could call Jane, maybe even Loki, like, hey, I need you all. You got to, you know, the multiverse is colliding on itself.

I need your help. That's how we get them back in Secret Wars. Boom. Nate Moore, I know you're listening. Give me a call. I got you. Amazing. I love it.

I love it. That would be cool. That's definitely possible. All right. Next question comes from Danielle. With two Ted Lasso actors now in the MCU in some fashion, which other Ted Lasso actors would you want to see join? And who would you want them to play? What's your pick, Joe? The person is easy for me, which is Hannah Waddingham. That's my pick. Okay. Rebecca. Gotta get Rebecca into the MCU. We have to. But I don't know who I would want her to play. All right, I got it. I have an idea for you. What do you have?

Connected to our earlier discussion about which Olympian gods do we want to introduce to the MCU. What if she played Hara? Sure. Why not? This would be great.

Also, she has done an interview recently. There was a variety Mark Malcolm piece from February of this very year where she talked about how she really wants to be in a superhero movie. And in response to,

here's the quote from the piece, does she have a particular superhero in mind? Quote, all the Marvel characters are magnificent. I mean, she's ready. She's built to play an Asgardian or like Olympian. Like that's, yes. I'm in.

Love it. I'm in. I can't believe none of you guys have said this. And honestly cannot believe I'm saying it myself. But we've seen Jason Sudakas play the devil before. Make him a fist. That's honestly like a top top five Sudakis' SNL bit for me is his Satan, Satan appearances on weekend update.

So good. That would be amazing. I actually can't believe you just suggested that, Jovey, given, given your feelings about Mepistow.

Listen, listen, listen, it's, it's a funny, it's a funny bit, but I, I love this and I'm ready

for Mepisto to wear Air Jordans in the MCU. I love it. But he would like, you know, like they would do the whole CJI thing, but he would also like come down

and just be like a regular dude and like he would like have like a red, like a red Nike fleece tech suit with some fire heat on the shoes. The real release in the Chicago colorway of the H.J.1. Those are of a fisto colors. It works. Right. It's going to be perfect. I love it. It's going to be nuts.

I feel like we've had two entries into like people just wanting, Haiti is King of the Dead. How are you doing? Like sort of thing. Love that for us. What are we doing? Come on. Amazing. Okay. Lightening for our final few ones here. Should we just, why don't we just do one more and call it a day? Should we end on the pop culture wish one? Because we've made a lot of, of pancake and orgy jokes already so we can end with this.

Our last question We eat it. Our last question comes from McCall, shout out to the homie. What pop culture related wish would you ask of eternity? This is easy for me. I didn't have to think about this

for more than half a second. Oh my God. What is it? I would love for our beloved George R. Martin, who I believe in and support to finish winds of winter. And we got a very, very encouraging, encouraging-ish, encouraging adjacent, recent, not a blog update on July 8th.

Joe, he's been at work in his winter garment. Did you hear his game of owns interview, though? Yeah. It's really distressed. His game of owns interview where he's like, I'm mostly done with the Turing stuff, but haven't really finished anything. I was like, buddy. Yeah. That's an eighth of the book, man.

A very, very promising paragraph with for good or ill was a blow. But I'm going to pay attention to the sentences that came before that. Things are growing and changing, as does happen with us, Gardner's. That's a direct quote from GRRM himself. I'm in eternity. I ask you make it happen. That's my pick.

You might be asking a little too much of the gods at this point. I believe. I don't. I believe. I believe. I don't know. What are your picks? What do you have, Jimmy? What do you have, Jimmy?

I'm stuck between two minds, right? One is I really want more seasons of Syke. It's my favorite television show for all time. Let's talk about, I'm going to start texting you about Syke, by the way. And it's mostly going to be pineapple emojis, but then we're going to talk about some other things. I want more seasons of Syke. I also, now I think about it, I could also ask for the community movie, but I think we're going to get that somehow, some way. There's no way they don't play off six seasons in a movie, so I hold off

on that. But my other thing, and this is the one, like, I really need, like, in my, to fill my heart, I need a great Fantastic Four film. Like, I need it. I need it. That was my first superhero movie. I watched theaters. I was, I was nine years old on Fantastic Four, 2005 came out. And my mom took me to the mall to go see it. And I was like, this is everything I've ever loved. Like, why don't I do this all the time? You know? And so everybody hates it. I maintain. It is okay. It's a fine film. No, it's not high art by any means, but let's respect. Let's respect it for what it is. But I would love just like a top tier, fantastic four, for fantasy four film. You'll say, Jomey, the Incredibles already exists. I say, it's not the same

thing, right? Let's have some respect. Right. I want to see Johnny Storm, Sue Storm, Sue Storm, I want to see it all. And I want to have it be awesome. Can I just take a victory laugh for a moment and say when we were talking about fantastic forecasting on this very podcast a while ago and I suggested Glenn Powell for Johnny Storm and it was before Top Gun Maverick came out and you people had to Google who he was. I did not have. Excuse me?

Absolutely not. I was dropping on the Zoom, I guess. Had to Google. Deep cuts there. Had to Google who Glenn Powell was and I feel so vindicated that the Glenn Powell stock is on the up. Not yours, truly. Not my king from set it up.

Absolutely. Exactly. Then I'm just calling up Van directly then. Okay. For me, I'm going to keep it small bore and say that I feel I really need the transition of Charlie Cox over in the Disney Plus MCU world to go well. I care a lot about Matt Murdoch and I care a lot about Charlie Cox and I'm nervous given the kingpin deployment in Hawkeye.

So I'm optimistic for an echo. As I am for everything, I'm optimistic for an Echo series. But like I just need this. Right? Like protect, protect Matt Murdoch from mid. I don't want mid Murdoch. I want Matt Murdoch. That's what I mean.

Mid Murdoch. Incredible. Wow. That's a, that's a great wish. I really hope for a wonderful Matt Murdoch return and a great fantastic four movie. So I love both of, I love those picks.

And again, and I won't, I want wins for you. Yeah. I would love wins for you. And for you. Again. I just,

I just don't believe. Mao, you're asking the gods to do too much. I used to believe and now I don't. So I'm, call me, call me Gore, Gore the Godbisher.

Call me Gore the, nope, I don't have a funny answer. All right, let's get on. There you have it, folks. We did it. We did it. What a, what a mailbag. What a, what a wonderful, what a wonderful mailbag. All right, friends, you flicked too damn hard. So that's a wrap on today's episode. Thank you, as always, to our God Pantheon. Steve Allman for producing this episode, Arjuna, Ram Gapal, for his additional production work on this episode. And Jomea Denneron for his work on the social for this episode. And of course, for joining us for the mailbag today. Tune back in on Wednesday and Friday for our Miss Marvel finale.

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