House of R - 'Yellowjackets' Episode 7 Deep Dive

Episode Date: March 26, 2025

The time has come for an ax murder! Mal and Jo are here to dive into the latest episode of 'Yellowjackets' to discuss the frogs, fights, and frights that come from the past and the present. Hosts: Mallory Rubin and Joanna Robinson Senior Producer: Steve Ahlman Video Supervision: John Richter Social: Jomi Adeniran Addition Production Support: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Restrictions applies. See terms at Fandul.com slash predict slash bonus dash offer dash herms. back to House of our, I'm Joanna Robinson, and she is the beautiful, the talented, Mallory Rubin. I have just one thing to say to you today. What's that? Go fuck your blunder, Joanna. Line of the season? Line of the series? It's second, I think, to there's no book club. With line of the series is just a hard honor to win, given there's no book club, but I would probably put it second. And we don't know Mari's fate. But it fills my heart with gloom and despair to think that she didn't make it after issuing this line long enough to watch Salfurn. Oh, she would so enjoy watching Barry Keowen fuck some blunder.

Oh, man, Mari deserves Salfurn. I agree. All right. If you didn't know, we're here to talk to you about season three, episode seven of the Yellow Jackets, Buzz Buzz. What if you didn't know that but just heard those last couple minutes? Fuck your blood. Tervine. Lottie. I have heard, I got so many messages of people eager for us to talk about this episode of television.

The, the Jackie's, nope, the bad babies, I guess, are dialed in to, here we are in the back third of the season. Where is the time gone? Great question. You and I both enjoyed last week's episode. I enjoyed a lot about this week's episode. I still have some questions, comments, and concerns. But like, but the season is getting better than it has been. fills my heart with joy as we crean towards the finale. Before we get into the deep dive that we're going to do here today. Yeah. Like deep diving into that

blood dirt. Go fuck your blood dirt, Lottie. Are you how much does that make you worry about Mari? Given how hard they're making us, trying to make us like her? I'm concerned. Yeah. I'm concerned and I was not prepared for a situation where I would mourn rather than celebrate if Mari left this mortal coil, but that's where we are.

Are you like, Mari's definitely going into the pit and it's definitely happening this season? Is that how you feel? No. I think Mari's going to last till next season. I think that based on the very, even by the recent standards and eternal standards of yellow jackets, very. Kranras. Steve. No free ads.

They stopped carrying Kranras, LeCroix in the office fridge. And Steve has like procured me some that he leaves for me. What a guy. What a gemstone. That he hides for me. He makes little treasure hunts of La Croy for me on the set. I know now today that there's not a LaCroix in that particular bit of ceramic pottery because our rat Preston is in there.

Actually, I don't know that. He could be sitting on top of a cool LeCroix can. Who can say? Anyway, I believe that the lost heavy nature of this episode, which will come up many times throughout our discussion today, it's given me a, you know, the freighter, sat phones, all of that. Then where do we go? We split.

Right. We've got Team John, Team Jack. So are we actually in the wake of this going to split factions formally? And while that should heighten my anxiety about people dying, it actually weirdly gives me hope that Mari could last if the tribe formally fractured. Okay. She's talking about the TV series last and we will give you all that context if you were listening to this episode. And you're like, what is she talking about? We will. John, Jack, Frater, what show am I listening to? We will talk about it. Before we do that, let me say. Yeah. Elsewhere. Yes. Over on the Ring ofverse. The Midnight Boys, pew, pew, pew.

Did a severance check in? Yeah. Do you have any formal commentary on Jomey's wig? Yeah. He has requested it. He did ask me for a wig watch. I think it looked amazing. 10 out of 10, no notes.

Not a single note. Wonderful. Also, no notes on Steve's mustache. Great stuff. If you didn't know, if you just listened to the Midnight Boys and didn't watch the video, there was some excellent costume work. from the Mint Edition crew on the Midnight Boys' rep of the Severance 2 finale. Button Mashed covering Assassin's Creed, Shatter reactions.

And the Midnight Boys, who Pee-Poo, we'll be back with their Daredevil, Born Again, episodes five and six instant reactions. Double-devil. It's a double-devil. Double-devil. And we will also have our double-devil episode up later this week. You know what next week is? What's that?

Somehow it's time for Ringervor-Vorse recommends again. I'm ready this time, though. I got ready at the beginning of the month. Oh. Yeah. Sick fucking brag. I was not going to be caught out of where's like I was last month. Where did the bus go? It was like a midnight and I like got on a video and I was like, this was for you, Ben Lindberg.

I saw Ben's email this morning and I was like, surely not. Isn't it March 2nd? But no. No. It's March 25th. So that's harrowing. All right. So that's a lot to keep track of.

Yeah. Yes. How can folks do that? Here's what I recommend. It's simple. Follow the pod. Follow House of R. Follow the ring of verse.

Follow the Prestige TV podcast on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. But here's the thing. If you follow on Spotify, you can watch full video episodes. So you can understand the LaCroix conversation, the Rat Preston conversation, the Severance costumes conversation. If you're looking for options beyond that, you can also follow the Ringervverse YouTube channel where you can also watch full video episodes of these podcasts. And that's not all. You can follow the Ringervverse on the social media platform of your choosing where you can see. photos of the Mint Boys

in their Safferance cosplay. You can see our best attempt to lip sync some Vicky Ratliff memes from White Lotus. Tsunami. Foodism.

Piper! No! You can see all of it. While you're at it, you're at your computer, your phones, and your hand, send us an email. The inbox is open. It's always open. And it's always Hobbits and Dragons at Gmail. Spother Warning. Season 3, episode 7. If you haven't watched Up Through That's what we're talking about today. This is an episode of Yellow Jackets that it is impossible for us to talk about without talking about some plot points from the television series Lost. Actually genuinely impossible. Up through Season 4 of Lost is where we will be spending our time this week. A lot of season four lost vibes happening in this episode. So this episode croak, another great episode title, you have to admit.

from the crew. Genuinely good. Written by Alicia Brofie and Amani Rosa and directed by Jennifer Morrison, the actress Jennifer Morrison from Once Upon a Time or House or however you prefer to consume your Jennifer Morrison directing this episode. Our listener, Michelle,

last week on the Yellow Jackets Pod, previously, on the Yellow Jackets Pod. We said the phrase, Berta Murder. Murder. No fewer than I would say 15 times, at least. minimum. Bare minimum. Minimum. Michelle has suggested, she says, R-I-P-Bird-Murder. Yes. Yeah. F-Y-C. Frogger Slaughter. I like it. Yeah, it's harder to say than Beter-Mur-Mur- Murder. Burter-Mur-Mur-Mur-Later is elite. A delight. Frogger-Slaughter. Damn it, why couldn't they have been studying birds? I know. Fuck. Why is it got to be frogs?

Frogger. Slaughter. Frogger-slaughter. Frogger slaughter. Frogger-slaughter. Arctic. Arctic. Banshee frog orgy slaughter. It's tougher. It is. But I'm ready to roll with it. We'll muddle through. Okay. Unreliable narrator slash loosener slash dreamer counter. I really only have, and tell me if I'm missing someone, Van in this episode. And part of now a proud tradition, that like pre-death. Is that what you think we're heading? I'm seeing a younger version of myself. Remind of Nat seeing a younger version of herself in that middle row on the plane before she was taken from. us, et cetera. Did Lottie see a younger version of herself? Misty saw young Lottie in the... It was like young Misty and young Lottie in the morgue scene.

But it wasn't like Lottie saw a young version of herself before. Young Lottie was actually also there on the plane in Natt's vision, which is interesting. And then of course, Travis, if we believe Lottie, had his whole like, well, I want to just get as close to death as possible so that I can commune with the other side. obviously Ben had all of his like Paul cabin phone call. He's not ready yet moments. So yeah. Yeah.

Not looking great for Van. We got to say. No. Now as a segment I'm calling mailboxes, etc. Steve, not our Steve, but A Steve wrote in to say, I think you were wondering why Ben's head was just sitting there. It's tradition to save the face for tie. How do you feel about this?

Wonderful email, but this, disturbingly is actually why I was so perplexed by this, because she's not going to eat the face raw. You got to roast it. Maybe she wants it dry-aged. Smoked. God. I mean, winter is coming, so, you know,

you can't leave any sort of human flesh anywhere near Shauna intact where it could freeze and she could put makeup on it or slice a pringle off. It's just a no all around. It's a no all around. I think your favorite phrase to say around the show is slice a pringle off. You know, we've got snacky and the arm pringles. We do. I, the Pringles were on my mind this episode lamentably.

I'd rather not have cause to think about Shana hoarding flesh. And yet, she's just scooped up that scalp chunk from Hannah's hair. The hair on the branch that appeared to have a little. She tucked it. She tucked it. She was like, I'll keep this. Yeah. I'll nash on this later.

Which is what she did with the ear, right? Didn't she pocket it? Pocketed the air and then ate it later. Despicable. Get in the pitch on it? Okay. Casting what if from our listener, Mary. Incredible.

Incredible. Incredible. JPEG work in the Google Doc thing. It's remarkable. Well, I took this directly from Mary's email, but Mary sent us a casting what if. If we could go back in time and know that Juliette Lewis would decide to not continue her time on yellow jackets. Yeah. Uh-huh.

Would we instead have enjoyed casting Samantha M. Mathis from Pump Up the Volume, Little Women, among other things. I love this. In the part, really good match for young Nat. Yeah. I think this is great. For Sophie Thatcher. Is it too late?

Yes. Alas. Are we sure? I mean, on the one hand, it's a great match, physical match, and I would, you know, most of me would rather have Nat, adult Nat alive because I think that dynamic is just really missing in the show. Same. Yeah.

Would I ever trade Juliette Louis in the show for anything, though? I don't think so. I just wish that even though it would have been, I mean, it's such a, it's such an impactful and memorable performance that I do think this would have been close to impossible. But I wish when she said, I'm leaving, they would have said we're recasting rather than killing her off. Like, why not? I don't think that Yellow Jackets would have been what it was in the first place, were it not for Juliette Lewis in the show. No question. And I feel the same way about Christina Ricci.

And I feel like, I feel the same about a few people, but like not everyone. But like definitely Juliet-Lewis. Okay. Christina Ricci, adult Misty, my favorite part of the season by a comfortable margin. A wide margin. It's just unbelievable. It's Mari. Yeah, Mari number one.

Sorry, Marri number one. Adult Misty. And then Adult Misty. Okay. Paramount Plus. Incredible. I had not seen this until you put this in the back. Okay, we got like a couple emails and tweets about it.

But they put out a promo that was Survivor Yellow Jackets crossover promo where good old Probstee himself, Jeffrey Probst shows up to do a little like yellow jackets bit where they're doing trials. Sean is walking across the spikes in the pit. Taise's, when he's like, Taise is running hungry. Like, I swear I've heard props say that in Survivor. So he's like, he's shot calling on these like yellow jackets trials. We've got the young actresses from from yellow jackets in the mix.

And they're giving confessions. They're wearing buffs. It's like very funny. Everybody writes down Sean's name on their piece of parchment at the end. This is why. one of the many reasons that Jeff Probst is one of the titans of our time and our shared experience. And by our, I mean, not just us, but the human race. He could have said, guys, we're about to film season 50. Yeah. 5-0 of Survivor. No, I'm not going to be in this promo making cannibalism jokes.

I've done 50 seasons of Survivor. I'm about to do my 50th. I don't need to make cannibalism joke. But he did it. He did it. And he did it with a smile. a dimple on his face. God damn it. You did a great job. This was wonderful. Also, this was a more compelling performance from young Shawna than what we've gotten in season three of Yellow Jackets. Sorry. Sorry, but it's true. I agree. All-timer sour puss face on her this season. Okay. It's tough because every time I want to talk about this and we get like 50 emails from people being like, do you even understand trauma, bro? And I'm like, I get, I get why Shauna would be traumatized. And I get why

she would be angry. And I get why she would be mean. Yes. And I get all. of that. And I feel like that's a compelling story to tell. Yeah. And I feel like they're not telling it. That's a thing. Yeah. I'm with you completely. This is again like I. And this is my main issue with the entire season. Yeah. This is why I'm having, we talked about this last week, but a hard time with the passage of time in the past. Because a lot of the moments that I know we'll talk about this later feel like they're missing. We have actually gotten in prior seasons because we were with them. day after day, week after week, living in that turmoil and that trauma and that specific, oh, I can't move forward.

I don't know how. Tension. But that's not what's happening. We're skipping weeks and months. And then it's harder not logically to understand why a person is in that state, but emotionally to feel how they've coexisted with the people around them, which was like one of the strengths of the show in that timeline in the prior season. So quick prompt I had, I don't want to, I don't want to say.

spend too long before we get to the breakdown, but a quick prompt I had was on the Survivor beat. On that Shawna front, who is doing the best on Survivor right now of the young Yellow Jackets' cast of characters? Because I would say, Shawna's social game needs some work. Yeah. There are characters, there are players on Survivor who do work the intimidation angle. For sure. Your Boston Robs, you know, like these people exist. Yeah.

But you need charm to go along with it. and Shana's doing one-note bullying, and I don't think that gets her far on the show. Nat is on the outs. She was, like, mis-popularity, but her alliance has fallen apart. Oh, yeah. And she is on the outs.

And then I just wanted to note Jen as a tribe member who does all the fishing, but has no personality. Yeah, Jen's helping around camp, and that's how she's made it. Those people can somehow sneakily go far. They can. Once you make it to the merge, anything can happen. Nat, falling out of the numbers

and a position of control, but then becoming a swing vote can be powerful. Good position. Can be powerful. Who's the challenge beast? Is it Van and Ty? Probably. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah. I mean, it's not going to be Misty after she lost those glasses. Sheesh. Misty is in trouble. Tough moment. In trouble. Tough moment. But we did get a shit rage call out and that was fucking great.

So if you had to pick one young Yellow Jackets member, I mean, we know who makes it off the island and by the island. I mean, out of the woods. But who's winning survivor of these current surviving Yellow Jackets members? In terms of actually being able to get the votes at Final Tribal? I think at the end of the day, I would make my, I would take my pick from the, I think the Thai Van Alliance is the one to back there. They have, I think, the outwit, outplay outlast triumvirate, most effectively in command.

But isn't a showman, it's always a bad idea. Tell that to fucking Boston Robin. Amber! Snoring, gasping during sleep, feeling fatigued, ask your doctor about Zepbound, terseptite. The first and only FDA-approved prescription medicine for moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea,

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Let's get into the breakdown. We're going to start with the past. We're just going to go through the past, and then we're going to go to the now. So now and then is where we're starting. 15-ish minute cold open spent. entirely with Team Frog Science. Did you think this might be the entire episode? I did. Me too.

Which I wouldn't have minded. Actually. I was like we're getting a whole love triangle, Frog Science Love Triangle episode. Dude, we haven't talked much about the episode pre-pod, but I did tell you that my favorite moment was when Hannah full-on stumble, tripped on like a clump of dart or a rock or a root when Cody. On her thin excuse.

Took his outerwear off and revealed his arm muscles. Who among us? You already mentioned it. We are an Arctic banshee frog ordi territory. Sensational stuff. How does this sit with you as an explanation for the wilderness scream sound? Great. I love it.

And it brings me back. I'm now, I'm on a full on, like, seesaw with the, is it supernatural or not? This is such a strong mark in favor of the, there's always another explanation argument. Yeah. Maybe it's just that lot of. is off her medication and that is, yeah, exactly. So I think that's great the idea that there could be just something occurring in nature and society and the society you've built. Maybe it's just, maybe you are not actually a profit and it's just the delusions from the gas in the cave and maybe

there are just a ton of frogs fucking. And I also like, in terms of mirrors and our girls shrieking into the night, that like animalistic frenzy. that they don't even really know their mirroring. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Tapping into something like feral and base. But is your question, why are they having an orgy of cannibalism and not a literal orgy? You know, that's my question ever since June coming. I know Travis has been gone wildly inactive.

Okay. Oh, man. This is all very lost. And I just want to take a second and give people context for this. I know that sometimes people listening to this and they're like, I didn't even watch loss. Why are you talking about loss all the time? I'm sorry. It's just the text that they're working with.

I'm not sorry. Okay, great. Yeah. We have mentioned before while we're talking about the show, the concept of the others. And it's a way in which Lost the Television's show opened up. You've got a plane crash. You've got your survivors. But how long can we go around and round and around with the same dynamics?

So we introduced the others, people who are living elsewhere on the island, you know, all this sort of stuff. Another way they opened up the cast and the narrative even more in season four of Lost is that, introduced what we would call the freighter crew. Yes. A team of scientists and Naomi, who sort of parachute into the island. Yep. And it's Miles. The best.

And it's Charlotte. And it's my best friend in the world, Daniel Faraday. Genuinely, I'm one of the most important characters in the history of my life. I mean, exactly. So the freighter scientists. The freighter scientists show up. And not only are they like, hey, we're a scientist. scientists, and we're here to talk to you about anomalies, about memory, about probability,

about time travel, and all this sort of stuff on Lost, they show up with a sat phone. Sat phone. And the fact that these scientists, these frogging scientists, show up with a sat briefcase, is our excuse to talk about Daniel Faraday. And I'll take any excuse to talk about Daniel Faraday. Question. Does anybody in either show at any point confront the fact that you need to be at a certain height to use the sat phone.

They sure do. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. And it goes really well for them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Everyone's fine. Yeah, they have to hike up to the, you know, to the radar tower in order to get the sat phone to work. Here we are with a love truck. Also, okay. Yeah. Also, let's just get the freak out of the way. Hannah has a child. And the child's name is Alex, which is once again, because there's a character named Rousseau, who had a similarly improbable brown wig,

who was also a scientist, who crashed on the island, and had a child name Rousseau, a daughter named Alex. This was the one, genuinely more so than Make Your Own Kind of Music. Make Your Own Kind of Music, or The Hatch, or The Flight of the Bumblebee, where it was like, we are alluding to lost.

We are inspired by lost. The secret child is named Alex. Like, I have to respect the overt chutzpah, exactly. Great use of chutzpah. Thanks. A love triangle of sorts. That's just absolutely.

I mean, listen, if you're Edwin, this is just tough in general. The last thing you see before you die is a severed head. You realize you have stumbled into a cannibalistic ritual because you really wanted to go find these other people.

You get an axe to the back of the head from Lottie. You have to die knowing that Cody was right. You have to die knowing that Cody was right and that your romantic partner

definitely wanted to fuck him. This is just a disastrous final stretch of living for Edwin, though he did get to get high once more. So that's good, at least. Edwin,

who I have later referred to in the notes as No headwind You have indeed Even though he technically has his head But he's missing some key parts of it Which Lottie has scooped up Smeared on her face And

Smeared into her face So It's fine We love this show That's worrying In addition to Hannah's fascination With Cody Codiac as played by Joel McKeale

In case you're wondering Yeah it was He's not named after the bear. Oh. He's named after the chewing tobacco. I definitely know what Kodiak chewing tobacco is. I meant to ask Chris Ryan if he, I feel like he would know. Do you think he's waiting to meet a character named Zintpack?

Or Zinepack, as I would call it for no reason. I also want to celebrate. Yes, please. Sing the body electric that is Hannah's 90s color blocked polar fleece. I all thousand percent had one of them. these. I would wear this today. Yeah. I would wear this today. Not only the style, so 90s, but it's all giving

Charlotte Hornet's starter jacket in terms of the particular color way that has been deployed. So that's also just very nice. Ornets. Great stuff. Indeed. Got it. Okay. Indeed. We got an answer for the Karma University stash. Yeah. The KUH stash.

Yeah. Quote, you know you're going to run out of those at some point, well, the last team hit a stash somewhere. So the question of does the last team explain anything in regards to Javi's friend? Not necessarily because the follow-up is a few years ago. The last team was here a few years ago. So I don't think whoever it was that hid that stash of hot chocolate, among other, bear mace and hot chocolate, the world's favorite combination.

Yeah. Have nothing to do with Javi's tree friend. I think not. And I guess the other timeline thing that we get is, So let me get the street. Your frogs, they stay frozen for seven years and then thaw out just to have a summer-long frog orgy, first of all, sounds great. Life is an Arctic Manchi frog. Who knew?

You just want to cry asleep for seven years and then wake up and fuck all summer? Fuck a bunch of other frogs and then go right back to bed. Sounds great, honestly. Love it. Seven years. We don't know this for sure, but do we deduce? We do know that they have never been recorded. We hear that from Hannah.

She's very worried that they will never be recorded again if the rain doesn't let up. Do we think that means, though, that the last expedition was seven years prior to attempt and fail, but to attempt to record them? And that it means the next group that would just come out on its own would be seven years in the future. Thus, we need a rescue crew. I mean, we need a rescue crew. They're getting rescued in a few months no matter what. We know that from the timeline. Here's our bridge.

Thanks, Ben. You smelled great. Ben, like, way to be a bridge. Yeah. Be a bridge, my dear. I love the idea of the Ben Bacue just loring the new group that they can then kill and imprison. Ben Bacue. I want to make another reference, but I can't yet.

Okay, listen. Are you ready to go to Aesop Fable Corner? Please, take me. Oh, my gosh. The Frog and the Haren story. Had you heard this story before? Yes. Me too.

But I really enjoyed Cody's version of it. Is this your favorite? Do you have a favorite Aesop Fable? Ooh. I do. Don't me tell you mine while you're. while you're thinking. Diana, my best friend,

got it embroidered on a pillow, actually, for me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because, so the story of the scorpion and the frog, right? I was going to pick it. Yeah, Scorpion and the frog where, you know, the scorpion's like, hey, man, give me. It all comes back to frogs. Hey, man, give me a ride across the river, man.

He's like, no, you're a scorpion. You're going to sting me. He's like, no, man, why would I do that, man? Give me a ride across the river, man. And then halfway across the river, the scorpion stings the frog. Frog's like, now we're both going to drown. And scorpions like, to's my nature, which is how I tell that story. And Diana got embroidered onto a pillow.

To tease my nature. I just say that when people are just like behaving like they feel like they have to behave. Which is my nature. Okay. Yeah, that's a great one. The frog who desired a king. As Cody tells it, the frogs are like, hey, God be the Jesus or Jupiter or whoever, you know, depending if you're in Rome or grace, who cares. We need a king.

We need a leader. And God's like, here's a log. And they're like, this doesn't seem like a king. And God, the gods, a god is like, wow, you ungrateful little bitches. Here's an apex predator that's going to eat you. And in some stories, it's a crane or a stork or whatever you care about. But there's the stork king and the log king is sort of like two examples. of what you could have.

Here's a quote in verse. You scorned the good king that you had, and therefore you shall bear the bad. Ye likewise, oh, Athenian friends, convinced to what impatient tends, though slavery be no common curse, be still for fear of worse and worse. So cautionary tale in regards to the desire for rule,

rule of law in the wilderness. We saw this with like the court case a couple weeks ago. like that idea of like decorum, law, we need rules, we need a ruler, the danger of authority given so freely. Like, why do you have a queen in the wilderness? Why the fuck do you have a queen? You're Americans. We don't have a monarchy. Come on.

Okay. All he gave you was that story about libertarian frogs is a great quote from our guy at Edwin. Wonderful stuff, yeah. Edwin, classic Kinglog, Cody, classic King Stork, would you say? Just in terms of their energy. Quite. Edwin definitely King Log energy. No doubt about it.

There's this quote from James K. Baxter in 1961 talking, I think it was like a New Zealand election. And he was talking about it. And he says, Democratic people have elected King Log, King Stork, King Stork again. Because I like a wide and silent pond, I voted log. that party was defeated. And not to get too political here on House of our, but I would say that Biden classic king log energy, everything was just kind of fine.

Real log energy. And the people were like, give us that Stork King, baby, and that's the reality we're living in right now. That damn it. Does that make Natalie King Log and Shauna the Stork, do you think? Interesting.

Yeah, I guess it does. Yeah. And Nat, you know, didn't really want it. Don't want it. The old John Snow, right? That log didn't ask for it. No. Just plopped right down.

It's just a log. Yeah. And you could sit on it sometimes. You can sun on it. The thing about King Log. The thing about the way in which the season has gone from King Log to King Stork, to your point about the timeline, it just all feels like we poured accelerant on it. Yes.

You know what I mean? The reign of King Log was so happy and peaceful. And I can like the idea of exploring the idea that any group in Left to the Wild or anywhere will get bored with a king log life and chase that king's stork life just for the sake of excitement or change or something like that. And I would have loved to have seen something that just felt like it flowed a bit more naturally from the Nat administration into the Shauna, the shipment. administration. And I still, I still bumped to and just like, you know, obviously Ben it's not like the second there was a challenge. That was a massive thing.

Yes. But were there no other things in the time we missed? No days where something went wrong. No days where someone wanted to eat Mortimer and everyone else said no. By the way, where the fuck is Mortimer? This is like waiting all this time to see like an update on Steve the dog.

By the way, lest I forget. I have a note for Tyisa Turner. You take that photo of biscuit off your fucking lock screen. You don't get to keep that there. No! That was outrageous to see that. That's really funny.

Oh, my God. If you cut off the head of your dog and place his heart on your secret seller altar, you don't get to keep him on your fucking phone anymore. No. But what if that was the other one? I mean, well. Vans ask him the same thing. We'll come back to that.

Okay, before we leave our frogging pals, we have Edwin, soon to be no Edwin, discovering that Cody is perhaps not only seems. Right. Do you think that will come into play in the future? So we have some interesting lines, some, like, ominous lines from Cody. Obviously, Edwin is like, my partner wants to fuck you

And also you gently and kind of sexually wrestled her into the sat phone and then it broke. And then I found that your garments have someone else's name on them. But he's not quite as hung up on the things that Cody's saying. He's like focused on the things he's not saying. He's like, he's not answering any of your questions. He won't tell us anything about himself. But, you know, it's not just the kind of like, you'd be surprised how many things out here can kill a man. Kind of like I'm a, I took my bow.

I wandered in and I never. wandered out. Got this from a Sasquatch energy. Great stuff. I liked your Cody, like, video game

character is just sort of like rocking movement. I, as you can tell, don't know what it would be like to have muscles. Is this how people with muscles walk?

Is this how people would... Muscle definition move? Couldn't tell you. No idea. I do have a very bad pain in my left leg and I have no idea

where it came from. That's my contribution to how people move. Sure. But when he's, he shot the bolt, quote, that's a callback. When he shot the bolt into the hair,

got their dinner, Edwin didn't want to eat, he said, dinner's on the house tonight, everyone. The wilderness provides. Now, the show is obviously doing this deliberately to make us wonder. Sheaky little wink. So, like, is any of that pinging to you or any of the suspicions that Edwin has

as, like, this guy, he thinks they're going the wrong way. and Cody's leading them to a symbol tree. Do you think there's any chance that he has some cabin daddy like tie to this place? I think the show wants us to think that. Or do they just want us to think that? He was very willing to fall off the shit ridge and die. So that makes me less inclined to think that he has. The symbol tree being back in the mix here when we haven't talked about symbol trees like all season essentially is very interesting to me. And it just feels like they answered the question of what is that ungodly street?

It's just frogs fucking, don't worry about it. So they've introduced science into, did I almost make you do a spit take? That's great. You did. That for me. You're dead. So we've introduced a scientific explanation into the mix. Yes.

Right. Yes. But so why not side by side bring us back to Symbol Tree Corner, you know? Yeah. Let's go off some cave gas. I prefer Poo Corner personally. Slap bracelets. All right.

Geo, what now? Welcome to Day 1 of Rain of Kingstork, aka the Shipman administration. How's it going? Did you see this meme that was going around of the electoral map of Shipman versus Skatortio? I did not. This was a... It's pretty phenomenal. Great stuff. Absolutely harrowing. Just someone took an electoral map. My home state of Maryland, team Nat, proud to say. Yeah. California always goes team Nat, I got to say. No question. All right. Misty saying Ben died of natural causes is generally incredible, quickly for president as well.

Incredibly amusing. Oh, really good. As you mentioned, Ben is the bridge unless they burn that bridge down, which they're already off to a great start on that front personally. And then Van's saying we're going home. Yeah. Yeah. Not so fast. Do you want to hear about the SOS incident?

Please. Tell me. Shout out Redditors for digging this up. So this idea that like we've got the Froggers and as we later find out via various Google searches from, you know, the entire Shauna family. Yeah. The Froggers go missing never to be seen again. So 100 miles. Yep.

From the crash site. Ruh-ro to what's going to happen to Hannah and Cody, I guess. Or do they change their identities? Who's to say? And what's left behind is this dat tape. Right? We don't know how the dat tape got back from the wilderness. You know, time will tell.

I have a theory. Okay. Can't wait. In 1989, two lost hikers on Mount Asahi in northern Japan were rescued after helicopter spotted an SOS sign made of 19 cut birch trees, except the hikers hadn't been the ones to build the sign and weren't aware it existed at all. So the authorities were like, huh, who put that SOS sign? Wasn't these people who rescued? Oh, no. So they go back and they find some human remains, not great.

Boy. And a cassette recording of someone calling for help. And this is on YouTube of them playing the cassette recording of just someone screaming for help into a cassette. Anyway, so the idea of like lost hikers, lost scientists and like nothing remains but this mysterious tape of someone, you know, screaming for help or tearfully leaving a message for their daughter, Alex. Jeez. Could have been, you know, could have been a. inspiration here. When Lottie's axe comes out of the dark of night into the back of

Edwin's head and how did she like sneak around like because she was in front of them, snuck around behind them, she axe murders Edwin. Yep. And Shauna loves it. laughs. She's fucking thrilled. She's on the brink of climax. This was disturbing. How's how's, how's, how's, how's, uh, team Shauna doing? Poor! Poor! What the fuck, Shana? I mean, obviously, like,

the group has not always been unanimously aligned. How could they be? That's always been part of what's interesting. But there's no greater tests than this. With apologies to Ben, whether Ben was going to live or die, is not the same as should we leave? Should we go home? Should we go home?

What the response is person to person to Lottie, threatening, risking. People have come into their camp and they have a chance to say to those people, how did you get here and do you have a way out? And Lottie puts an axe into one of their brains. So every reaction should be, oh no. Don't. What? He died.

Oh, no. Shana is overcome with ecstasy. Euphoria. Can't wait to go chase down. And obviously her desire is to continue to kill. I mean, she does not want to bring Hannah back at the end of the episode. It's only Nat's like, don't hurt them as they leave camp. Nat is like trying to appease and peacemake and all the sort of stuff like that.

Travis too. Travis is also on team let's go home. Grab the gun and climb up here, buddy, we're going home. You know, so in terms of that schism that you are projecting Team Jack, Team Lock, that's a lost reference. On the on the team lock is a

character on Lost who similar to Lottie felt like he had a direct connection to what the wilderness wants in his case what the

island wants. The island wants us to stay. The island wants us to do this. And when the freighter scientists in season four of Lost show up

and they got a sat phone, spoilers for Lost and climb up to the radar tower, Naomi's got the sat phone. John Locke fucking hucks a knife into Naomi

similar to Lottie with the axe, right? So like, and he's just like, we're not, we're not meant to call the freighter. Right. We're not meant to leave. We're not supposed to go. Right. And jury's still out on whether or not John was right about that. Honestly, that's the beauty of Locke.

It's a mixed bag. But Shauna is so, to your point, is so bloodthorously excited for this hunt. Yeah. that she barely pauses when her girlfriend, Melissa, takes an entire bolt to the shoulder chest, shoulder chest? Yeah. What is that? Just south of the collarbone right there? Yeah.

The decalitage. Oh, man, the later in the episode, the pushing through the... It's barbed and then the pushing through the skin. Yeah. Made me want to gag. You know what else? Quickly on the Edwin-No-Hedwin front, he knows who they are. Well, right?

He's like, wait, this is a, you all are, oh my God. It read to me that they're, he's like, you guys are the, I'm in the crash. I have two definite. I have two. Yeah. What's the other possibility? Oh my God, are you guys cannibals? Certainly that.

Yeah. But I, so I agree that that is at least more like kids to do. It's a very likely explanation. I just think there's like a plausible deniability that he was just like, oh my God, these are cannibals. Right. You know what I mean? Like, yes.

This guy's head is here at that smell that Lord of me was, human flesh, oh boy. Oh, no. Yeah. But like, if they do, and of course, a plane full of a high school girls soccer team heading to nationals lost without a trace. Thanks, Misty. I still don't understand the transponder was going for quite some time. Anyway, they'll answer that at some point. Or they won't. I don't know. I don't know. The, if they know who they are, this would be a huge story, national news. I'm so curious to see if any of the kids ask. Hannah and Cody? Like, hey, have you heard about us? Is our plane crash a big deal? Like, what do people think? Are they looking for us still? What's the state of the search?

Do they give up? Do they assume we're dead? Are we like baby Jessica or something? Who would be most excited about that? Definitely, Marry, obviously. Has anyone found my vibrators? Do they know how I chipped a tooth? Do they talk about me on MTV?

I love her. Oh, God. Okay. We're going to talk more about Hannah's message a little bit later. I kind of want to get that as we compare her to adult, Shawna. That's something to talk about later. But Nat is still like not only in charge of the hunt, she's giving some directions. Shawna gives her the most sucking on lemons face I've seen from Sophie. And I've seen a lot of sucking on lemons faces from her this season.

But I love the moment. So we're all, you know, we split off. Akila and Travis are off in the. this direction. Misty is doing, God knows what, before she loses her glasses,

Van and Ty, surprise, surprise, are together. But the moment that Nat and Shauna who have been at odds all season, wordlessly

snuff their torches at the same time because they know what it, they are practiced at this, they know what it is to be on the hunt.

They've never hunted human in this way before. Well, they have hunted human, but like, not like this, but they're just,

sort of like, we know what to do. We don't even have to talk about it. We're going to snuff our torches and we're going to head off in this direction. That's what we're going to do. And I really loved that as like a moment of, you know, teammate camaraderie. You know, these are women who played soccer together, like teammate camaraderie, but also like... They dug coal together. They dug coal together, exactly.

But also the idea of like, we're enemies until there's a bigger enemy and then we're allies. Right. Yeah. And that's why I'm curious to see when, because Travis wants Cody to get them out of there, Nat stopped Shauna from killing Hannah. Lottie's sitting there with brain, blood, bones smeared on her face saying, you know, they don't belong here. It doesn't want them here. I understand all this stuff that she's muttering to herself.

Fuck your blood dirt, Lottie. Like, I'm, that shorthand of the tort. or the torch snuff, that language that you share and that you build over time, I liked what this episode did and reminded us of just like the thing that was there because they'd known each other for so long and had played together and gone to school together,

grown up together, those formative years, but then also what is it different about where they are now, not just like literally, but in terms of the passage of time, compared to even earlier in the wilderness post-crash. Like, again, with what Lottie did, okay, we have actually had a character before decide unilaterally on her own,

I'm going to make a decision that stops us from being rescued. Misty, we've alluded to it. That's so different from what Lottie did in a couple ways. One, there's the passage of time, right?

When Misty does that, terrible thing. It was before they ate people. They had not yet become cannibals. But also, she's like in the throes of being needed, right? She's protecting something new

and doesn't know, maybe in the back of her mind, worries, but doesn't know that they will be here for more than a year later. they've been here for more than a year when Lottie does that. And that's why she does it because she wants it to be forever. She doesn't want to go home.

It's now like really interesting. We sort of knew this at the time, but through the lens of this decision to think back to like the cult and sunshine honey and like even when she had been rescued and left, she wanted to kind of rebuild that around her. But the thing that's most different about what Lottie did and what Misty did is how public it was. When Misty finally said that out loud to one person, And she then had to scare, scream, push.

Well, Crystal backed up, as Misty would have us believe. Off the shit ridge. She died in natural causes. Natural causes. She fell off the shit ridge. Lottie was not afraid to do that in front of everyone. To be fair. That's how sure she was that she was right.

On the one hand, yes. And on the other hand, Lani is also dealing with a different set of like neurons firing in her brain. Certainly. You know what I mean? Like there are other people in this group who's, certainly will, I'm sure, and we get some of this from Ty and Van inside of this episode, also think perhaps they shouldn't go home. I don't know that they would put an axe to someone's head like that, the way that Lottie did.

Lottie is emboldened by her lack of medication, I would say, part of it. You know what I mean? Yeah. Okay. So Hannah's on the run, loses a hunk of hair and scalp, as you pointed out. It's not disgusting. Takes it as a souvenir. but our hair comes tumbling down.

It is very pit girl-esque as we discussed last week. Yeah. And then we've got Ty and Van Siler together on the hunt yet again. And I want to read this email we got from our listener that is... Yeah. Our listener's calling out a specific gripe, but I think it's a larger grip I have for the season.

So our listener Crash Rope... I've been really... I miss the crow that we could hear. Remember when you were like scared me with the crow sound? Okay. Crash says, I've been really bummed out that teen Taisa and Tina Keila don't have any scenes together in season three so far. I remember watching an interview with Jasmine Savoy Brown who plays Taisa about season two who said that it was really important for her and Nia that two black girls have a relationship because it's true to life. Jasmine said she really pushed show leadership about it for a few scenes we got in season. And it's really disappointing to see Akila have much more major storylines this season with zero interaction with Taisa. Akela only started going to Lottie's Quote, quote, woo-woo power prayer circles in season two

because Taisa started to, and she told Taisa that. Why isn't Taiza checking in at all with Akila who's going through some really rough stuff? It seems so unlike Ty to not even attempt to make sure that Akila's okay with all the cave gas vision stuff. Ty has frequently been shown to be a loyal and caring friend to Shauna, and I don't understand why the powers that be

seem to have cut off teen Taiza from all the characters but Vann. I'm wondering if they feel they're backed into a corner to only write Taisa with Van in the 90s timeline because of the most current timeline has tie and Van together. Something I really loved about this show in previous seasons and especially season one was that the Yellow Jackets had complex relationships with each other, not just pairs of friends. Season of three feels like we've gotten a flattening of these previously complex friendships

and characters. And so I really love that email for the Ty and Akila stuff specifically, of course, but also just like thinking about Ty and Shauna haven't really. shared time together. We talked about the really rare Nat and Travis moment that we got, but it's kind of shocking that that's all we've seen from those

two characters and just sort of like tie and Van as much as I like them and as much as I think, you know, if your shout out that that death is coming for Van and will want to feel that pain for Taisa, like it makes sense that they would want to identify

like really, really emphasize their closeness throughout the season, I still need these women to mix and match and talk to each other more than like, you're in the Lottie Akila Travis click and you're in the van and tie click, you know what I mean? No question. And I would say, I really agree and like a great email. I think actually like the show needs to trust us that this does feel connected still to just the time thing.

Did their seasons get to cut down? okay, et cetera. Yeah. But we actually will feel and appreciate that closeness more if it is in contrast to other active present relationships that we get to watch, right? And witness. Like, we were incredibly invested in Ty and Van when we watched them go huddle up in the attic and literally like bind their hands together so that.

Dark Ty wouldn't sleepwalk tie out after no eyes to a shit ridge, right? Yeah. So. But inside of those episodes, yes. Yeah. Inside of this episode, you still have like the Ty and Shauna connection, the tie and Akila connection. Yeah. And so then like when you have this moment where it's, oh, I see what Ty is like with someone else.

And then I see what she's like with Van. Yeah. You actually, it's heightened. Yeah. But if all you have is Ty and Van, then how do you even know what you're comparing it to? Now we're three seasons in. But I do miss that. And it's like, I think on the one hand, it does feel true and right to me that there would really be these like factions inside of the group after this much time in the wilderness.

That is a very Lord of the Fly Z type of thing. It is very alliances and Survivor, all of it. But just in terms of making a television show that like is operating at the highest frequency and homing for us as viewers. allowing us to really understand all of the dynamics, you have to see more people interact. Like, for example, and this is, again, to your point about time, it's so different on a 22 episode season. But if we want to take the Lost Comp, you definitely had groups of people that you associated with each other, like Sawyer and Hurley or, you know what I mean? Like, there are definitely like groups where you were like really excited when they were together. But you would also pull them apart and mix and match them constantly so that you could explore new character dynamics.

and it helps you understand, to your point, the full, like, 360 of who that person is. Right. It's, like, great email. It was really fun to see. This is not the same as the girls, but, like, Mari and Ben together? Yeah. Because we hadn't seen that. And I also, like, even the glimpse of, like, that we get in this episode with, like,

Jen and Mari and Melissa as, like, the B team group. You know what I mean? That they have, like, I really felt that Jen and Melissa have, like, a close friendship that we haven't seen, but like, we can understand it, you know? For sure. All right. So, yeah, Ty and Van have this conversation. They find the tent.

They find the broken sat phone. And we have this sort of like, do we stay or we? Do we go conversation of Ty saying we found all these supplies for the village? And Van's like, we don't need any of it. We just need to find these people so we can go home. I don't want more supplies for the winter to come. I want to leave before the winter gets here. Yes.

So, yeah. On the phone. the broken phone. So when before Hannah and Cody split and the hair splits from Hannah's head, again, disgusting. Yeah.

We get like a little lecture from Cody's like, you know, you need instincts. If you think you're going back to campus is the right thing to do, you don't have instincts. That's not how he said it. He was not like, how do people with muscles move? But he said because she's like, we got to go back to campus and staff. And he's like, you mean the broken

one. And she said, maybe I can fix it. Much like you say about Bullseye every time he comes up on the Daredevil podcast. But I can. Now, who will fix something first? You with Bullseye or Hannah with the Saffone. She's me. Me, I believe in me. I think I believe in you too. She will attempt to fix this phone. Right. So will they be able to use this phone? Hannah fixing it, someone else fixing it. They got to try to fix it. Classic. Classic Seid, by the way. Totally. Totally. Totally. This was again so losty, like, is someone just going to come looking for the missing party because they didn't call in? They didn't return. Obviously, they're not making routine calls because Edwin was like, that's half our budget. Great moment when Cody was like, the future, you know, my future misses

is at a different 900 number. Remember 900 numbers? What a time that was. That was a real, attempt to be Sawyer. Oh, yeah. Not quite working, but sure. Yes, I agree. I agree. So the Saffone, someone will fix it, presumably, and then they'll make a call. Great. Or a rescue group will just show up because they never returned home. Either way, I'd like to once again thank Coach Scott for his service. Thanks, Ben. Be a bridge. Thanks, Ben.

Not when they get a hold of Hannah. Yeah. When Hannah's like, I can't sit silently behind this log anymore. I really think you were almost in the clear, Hannah. But okay, I can't sit silently behind this log anymore. If only she had made it long enough to watch Fellowship, you know. How do you properly Huddle?

Even when the bugs are crawling out of the woodworks, you can huddle. You've got to find your time. God damn it. She pops out and she's like, yes. Listen. And Shana is immediately with her knife just like ready to slice and dice.

And she's like, you hurt our friend as if Shana gives a shit about Melissa. Astonishing stuff. And that's like, hey, yeah, yeah, wait, wait, wait, wait. Yes. I didn't, can I, nitpick. I didn't understand how obviously that

talking Shana down anyway, but I didn't really understand how the, like, I have medical supplies to help your friend line worked because, obviously, it was deeply traumatic, but, like, they have survived catastrophic harm to their bodies before. Like, Van was Brassbolts. Van was mulpt by a wolf. Yeah, but, like, okay, fine. If you're, like, herbs and poultices got you through, that's fine. But wouldn't you rather some fucking back team?

Of course they'd rather. But if I'm Shawna and I'm in this state, I'm like, fuck it. We stitched up van after a wolf eaten off her face. I'll kill you later. Yeah, true. True. As I mentioned, we got a lot of great emails about Shauna and her trauma and people talking about it. And I really, like, I appreciate all those emails that people are written in.

I really don't think we're not understanding that. But you guys can continue to disagree with us. Plenty of people are really enjoying what the darkness is. that is brewing inside of Shauna the season. But we got this one email about sort of like Shauna, an email from Sunny who was talking about this idea of like Shauna and her baby, thank you, Sean and her baby against the world.

Yes. You had me against the world. And now it's just Shauna against the world, right? Jackie's gone, her baby's gone. It's just Shauna against the world. And this idea of like wanting to be the queen because feeling so powerless and buffeted by the like horrible things that have happened to her since she's been out there.

So if I'm the queen, if I'm in power, then at least I have some control. Or if I stay here, if I don't go home, because I can't go home after what's happened to me and what's what we've done out here. I kind of like this email, even if it's all still not working perfectly for me. I continue to be a little bit more hung up on how the group is responding to Shana versus. is how Shauna is actually behaving. Shauna, Shana, Shana's response to the, like,

ceaseless loss. You know, we talked about when Van, Shauna and Akila all had their cave gas visions, the just unbelievably gut-wrenching

experience of Shana swimming and not moving toward this child that she had lost. Like, she has suffered greatly, and of course, would be altered. Of course. By what she has experienced.

How could she not be? But we haven't actually had as much time other than, you know, some of the opening journal scrolls at the beginning of the season. That sense of isolation, certainly, is, I think, clear. But then to pull her out of that into this position of active leadership just requires a little bit more plotting of the path because she had been so separate. We knew that she coveted. She believed that she should lead.

That wasn't the missing element. It's that the other people didn't think she should. It's not she believes she should lead, but like why does she want to leave? And it is not just like, I think I'm better than everyone else, which she does. But also just sort of like this idea of like I need some measure of control. I need some measure of power. And I was always. So powerless.

Second too, right? This is the other thing is like, and this partially like works inside of the show. She's trying to be as mean as Jackie and she doesn't have the like Savoaffaire. to pull off what Jackie could. So, you know. All right. So we deal with the crossbow bolt. We get go fuck your blood, dirt, Lottie from Queen Mari.

That takes us to the now. Yes. Shawna listening to. Oh, and Hannah hides the tape, right? Very like aria hiding needle, tucks it under the rocks. Yeah, yeah. So. So who's going to find it?

Should I hit you with my theory now? Oh, yeah. Let's do it now. Let's do it now. Actually, I know when I'm going to drop it on you. It connects to something in the presence, so I'll stay up. I'll wait. So we see adult Shauna.

I'm not making it sound like it's not a very good theory. We see adult Shauna listening to the no headwind moment. No headwin. A shudder and a wince, not the manic laughter of her youth. Yes. I just sort of like, ugh. Okay. This is Hannah Sophia Finch, is the Hannah in question, per the impressive Google detection skills.

And I want to read this thing that a Reddit, who goes by one and only Slack wrote, taking a closer look at Hannah's obituary. It's very clear, at least to me, that she becomes

everything Shawna could have been if the plane hadn't crashed. A teen mom who won Nationals, Frisbee, in Hannah's, ultimate frisbee,

not soccer. In Hannah's case, a teen mom who won nationals, who graduated and who was known to be smart and dedicated.

How do you fancy this sort of parallel between Shawna and Hannah? I like it, especially like we think of, you know, the very recent

someone locked me in a freezer, and then I saw Snacky again, seen that... Is this who you wanted to be? Right. Exactly. And someone's mom? Someone's wife? You know, is it actually Jackie's ghost

haunting Shana? Maybe. But what it certainly is undeniably is Shana's... Is it a frog orgy? It could be. It could just be the frogs croaking. You know, this resentment and doubt and lament that lives inside of Shana. surfacing in the form of a person who used to make her feel bad about herself. And so this comparison, friendship, this comparison.

How white lotus. Totally. Totally fancy coogs. Man, it would have been great to see. It would have been great to see Jackie grow up and go to the White Lotus. I love her to know White Lotus season four. Dude. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yes. Oh, she would be great. Yeah, vicious. Oh, man, she would be great on White Lotus. I love it. I can't wait. I desponded that season three is ending, so I can't wait for season four.

Mike White, cast her. Maybe he's listening to this podcast because we talked about Survivor so much. Cold Lotus. Hello for now. Make it happen. Yeah. She's always done fine in the snow.

Okay. I lament that we cannot play clips. So we can't hear Jeff's epic pause on in this poorly furnished shit box as he continues to describe the Jolly Hitcher. And he expresses his frustration at Shauna's willingness to disrupt his life and Callie's life, yet not loop them in on plans and the double standards of her behavior. And then when Shauna says that Callie, as smart as she is, needs to, quote, back the fuck off. That goes for you too, sweetie.

There's this great Warren Quoll who's always wonderful as Jeff. Does this great sort of like infantinal. No. You got it. No. You got it. You're killing it. It's not coming out today.

It's not happening. We're not saying that word today. teeny tiny, incy weency. Flinch. From Jeff. Intimitesimal. There it is. Okay.

Wow. I just really stuck in my brain. Who did not want to come out to play. Murder, murder. Murder. Murder, murder. Broader. Slaughter.

Frog or slaughter. Yeah. Jeff is just, I mean, we're headed towards the end of the episode when Callie's like, hey, is Armagh, is Mom? I'm bad, actually. Remember the old Grantland rubric overrated, underrated, properly rated? Callie just came in and was like, Mom, properly rated. Mom, are we sure she's good?

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Bor's Head committed to craft since 1905. This goes back to like we thought, what we thought we understood about Jeff was that Jeff had read the journals so knew everything that had happened in the wilderness. I didn't understand. And chose Shawna anyway. Yeah. So then Callie's like, hey, have you heard about frog or slaughter?

Do you know about a frogger slaughter? You know mom's capable of this, don't you? And it seemed like this big, like, dun, done moment. But I'm like, isn't Jeff supposed to know everything? Or did Shana not journal about the frogger slaughter? I don't, I was. Was she out of notebooks at that point? This to me, possible.

So why not ask Travis for some of his fucking tree bark that he's doodling on? Scrolls. This to me was like a, ah, the show, we liked the last. couple episodes more, like, has lost a couple miles per hour off its fastball. There's a little thing like that. Yeah. Like, because that actually just doesn't make sense. It's not consistent with their relationship, but also just kind of established canon in the show.

Like, he read it and he knew. Darkest parts of her and he loved her anyway. It would be one thing if we had not seen Shauna Journal and eons upon end, but she's in a fever scrawl of like, how, how, at the beginning. We can never go back. So, like, I, and she's journaling about all of these horrific things. Dear diary. Why would this be the thing she didn't journal?

Today, Lottie put an axe in the back of a man's head. Exactly. And Mari, who sucks, had the greatest line of the season. Yeah. And, you know, Mel is like on the IL right now. So we're going to be doing a little less fucking in our teepees. Like, she would have definitely journaled about all of that. I mean, he definitely knows about Melissa.

100%. Well, I feel like that's going to still come into play. The other thing on this, like, little nitpick front in this stretch, I maybe this is fine but stuff like this drives me crazy we talked last week about how they stop listening to the tape in the car okay Shauna fast forwarded

Kelly has like 30 minutes of tape Callie and but we know she's right she's got their conversation in the car etc like the elevator okay Shauna sits down they stopped listening to that tape immediately right okay shit we know what this is

yeah Seana sits down on the toilet running the water. Jeff's like, do you need some emodium? How long are you going to be? How long is the shit going to take? Should I go to the lobby? She's like, don't go.

He's like, you sent me for snacks. Okay, she fast forwarded 13 minutes on this recording. I just don't accept that you wouldn't listen to every single second of that. Now, I guess we can deduce that they do later in the van

when they play it for Misty. They listen to it all. But like, she's fast forwarding. But isn't the that she's been in the bathroom for a while? Has she been, hasn't she been, like, sort of zooming around the tape? Maybe. It seemed to me like this was, like, the first time she moved forward in the tape was to suddenly

go, let me see what else is on here. I'm going to go 15 minutes in. What? That's just, like, bizarre, though I kind of believe that Shauna would do that. They're at the gas station later. Everyone's fucking tapping their credit cards. I'm like, guys, what did Shawna use to buy that hunting knife? Hopefully cash.

Hopefully, she is not stupid enough and behaving recklessly enough. to leave that kind of digital trail. You mean Shauna who like just stabbed Adam out of like fucking nowhere? That Shauna? Shana. Shana, no. Shana doesn't plan as Misty clearly outlines. That was great.

You know what I mean? Great moment. Rudely. Absolutely. Okay. Roodly. So I sense cleanup to ask yourself, not yet, but it passes prologue, you will, late and rudely.

Incredible line. Genuinely incredible. I really love this flavor of over Shana's shit from Misty as opposed to like pleading placating Missy from earlier this season. Shout out, tough love Walter. Absolutely. Walter got us here. Absolutely. Thank you, Walter.

To Misty just like crushing it. He was right to air quote that friendship. He really was. He was right. Misty accuses tie of murdering Lottie previously. Van looks like she might be concerned about the same thing. And then Misty learns about the tape for the first time. And I'm fun.

Missy being like, you know, keep an eye out for your 1099. Oh, my God. Thank you for your service to the government. Your government thanks to you. Remarkable stuff. So good. Okay. So, Shawna tells Van and Ty and Missy that she's going after Alex.

Mm-hmm. And then they say Jen and Melissa both got pretty close to Hannah. Yeah, but they're both dead. Okay. Here's my theory. Okay. Okay. Okay.

Okay. This is the Hillary Swankistole Melissa theory? Correct. Great. Because a couple things. One, like Misty was kind of like, Shana, how'd you find all this out so quickly just in terms of how she, it was funny to see that Callie and Shana had identical Google styles, by the way.

Correct. They usually love the plus sign in their Google search. The love the plus sign. Wild stuff. A lot of capitalization as well. Okay. So, Jen and Mel got close to Hannah. Hannah has been brought back and will not be dying immediately.

she will be living long enough to get close to a couple members of the yellow jackets. What might she tell them? Perhaps that she had a child? And buried a tape somewhere. And buried a tape somewhere. On the lost front. Again, spoilers for lost. This is giving, we talked about this possibility previously in previous episodes, but this was really pinging the, oh, not everybody's getting rescued.

Not everybody's coming home theory that we've discussed before. Some people will survive anyway. Mel gets left behind. That's why we have this moment where Shauna runs away after she's injured to kind of prime us. Shauna's going to not hesitate to leave Mel behind. Mel gets left behind. They all just assume that Mel's dead. But Mel continued on, whether it's that seven years later expedition or some other thing, somehow later, tape in hand, makes her way off that island.

Now, does Shauna know Mel is alive? I thought the look on Shauna's face when they said Jen and Mel were dead was notable. I don't know if that means she actually has reason to believe or knows that she was not dead or it's just guilt. Yeah. That she let her die. Maybe that she left her behind. But they want us to think Hillary Swank is Alex and I still think it's Mel. I hope you're right.

I love this for you. Wouldn't it be so funny if it's Jen? Oh my God. Hi, it's me, Jen. I've had three lines this season. Sheesh. I'm actually waiting to understand why they recast Jen, given the, like, like two and a half minutes of her.

Total screen time. But maybe it's coming now with the Hannah bonding. Who knows? All right. Walter, we go to the gas station. I don't,

you know, Vann is not doing well. We'll come back to that. But Walter lets Missy know about Shanna's DNA under Lottie's nails. And this is a theory from our listener,

Allison, who says, I think Lottie had Shana's DNA under her fingernails because she probably braided Callie's hair before she got murdered. What do you think? I will just say this in response to Allison's email.

Is that how DNA works? Genuinely asking. I don't know. Is the implication that Shana's DNA would have been on Callie's head from touching her or that Callie's DNA would... Is that how Kalli's DNA works? I'm not a...

You've heard me say it before, folks. I'm not a scientist. You're not a doctor. Come cover the pit with me. Dude, I can't wait to watch the pit. I really feel like I am missing out. It seems great. Come join us.

I will. How is Dragons at D.m.com, if you are a geneticist, if you're a geneticist, if you're a geneticist, and you know everything I know about gene DNA theory I learned from down on DNA from Mr. DNA in Jurassic Park. Okay. Yeah. That also involves frogs, by the way. It does.

It does. Did Callie Kill Lottie and Shana and is Shana covering for her? Has been a wildly popular fan theory on Reddit for some weeks now. Did Callie kill Lottie and is Shana covering for her? Why would Callie kill Lottie? Now we did see her She wants answers to questions Yeah

And Lottie won't give them to her But Lottie was like Yeah She did seem very eager to welcome Callie into her New occult that she was building I mean It would be interesting in an Apple

Doesn't fall far from the tree Kind of a Kind of a way Yeah Callie did Thanks Randy We've missed you these last few weeks Order

a bag full of entrails to dump on a friend. So that's possible. But that again, I wouldn't like that from like a story mechanic perspective. Like that would just feel like, oh, twist. It was Cali versus somebody who had like a more clearly established and deeply rooted motive for doing this. With any of these things, whether it's Melissa, whether it's Shawna, whether it's Ty. I don't think it's Misty. No.

I don't think it's a van. It'll depend entirely in execution, I think. Yeah. Yeah. How they show it how it all went down. Yeah. We're learning that this season, right? For sure.

For sure. Okay, good. Have to. Have to. The gang goes to hospital where Van's magical cancer rears its head. Missy trying to follow Van and Ty back there, citing a very intense trauma bond is wonderful. Made me think of Alice.

from season one at the reunion. Tramabond. You love. You love. Talk about Ali. Great stuff. What do you think of this spooky phone motif with the neighboring patient next to Van's bed saying ring-ring motherfuckers, the devil's calling? Yeah.

We had the phone call that Van answers and hears Ty on the other line of last week. We also have, of course, the sat phone stuff with Van and Ty this week. So what do you think about this, like, phone situation? I mean, obviously in the immediate moment there, we just get the like, I'm going to kill him. And Van's like, please don't. You know, this impulse that continues to drive Thai, dark tie, which one is it? When did the takeover happen? You know, a question, oh, how long has it been you that we had been asking?

And Van asks in this hallucinatory sequence. But this idea of like the devil calling, this is again, very Lord of the Flies, like this pole. And that for Thai, like this pull to the dark and this, you know, if Van, when they're in the hospital bed and she's like, this is exactly what we didn't want. It's like, well, yeah, no shit. Like, nobody wants the person they love to be dying of cancer. Yeah, yeah. And so it's like, Ty using any excuse, Shawna, like, very much so, to say no. And when Van is like, I don't want to do that.

And Ty's like, I'll do it for you. Like, let me do it for you. Let me kill people. Let me sacrifice to the wilderness for you. That's the devil calling. How do you feel about this other tie? Was it Other Thai? How long has it been Other Tie reveal that we get inside of this episode?

If we want to call it a reveal. It's a Van hallucination of a sort. Yeah. It feels to me like Van kind of clocking what we talked about last week. singing it together. I find this interesting in terms of Vann being the one as we discussed last week

to, in the earlier timeline, be seeking to surface and on earth and coax out. Dark tie and now to really fear that, it makes me wonder what else awaits in the past. Obviously, plenty has already happened.

Fun to get the, you know, shoveling dirt into her mouth previously on. Flashback. Great stuff. What a moment. was in season one. But, yeah, I, you know, I think that I'm still where we were last week.

Like, it feels like this has been going on for, since maybe the waiter, right? At least. I'm the one who can save you. Well, we'll see. Doesn't seem like it. All right, Kelly and Jeff, we've already covered most of this. I just want to say, Jeff saying, enjoy your vermin, Joel's. Like, good job trying to have Best Line of the episode.

Too bad. A lot of, Mari got there first. And then Rebecca wrote in to let us know. that there's a there's a hotel that looks absolutely lovely in Red Bank, New Jersey, called the Molly Pitcher that she thinks the Jolly Hitcher is sort of making fun of. But the Molly Pitcher actually looks like the Molly Pitcher in looks beautiful. The Jolly Hitcher, well, riddled with bedbugs or I, you know, I stand with Cali. I mean, yeah, Jeff just absolutely besmirching the reputation of this fine,

albeit, as he said, poorly furnished shipbucks. It's his, it's the voice within. That is causing those hives, my guy. It's the voice within. Okay. What do you think with this Jeff Callie, like, where's this leading? Is this leading to some sort of active betrayal of Shauna or is it more likely that Shauna will lash out in the face of their judgment?

That feels like the more likely thing to me. I feel like if we're heading towards the parallel of like revolt against Shauna in the past, if that's where we're headed and then revolt against Shawna and the present a parallel beat. Because so much of where she is in the present day.

If I'm Jeff, I'm way gone. One electric knife slicing open my skin's nightmare was all I would have needed to go.

But because he's bit through all that and stood by her, went to Adam's studio and stood by her. But what if went up to Sunshine Honey and stood by her? What if his point now is like,

but you're putting Callie in danger? Or Callie feels like she's more exposed, if that's the stance that he would take. Yeah. Callie being the one to say, this is too much. Yeah. Feels like the one thing that could pull Jeff back in.

And also, I guess the other thing is that he, his limit is twofold. It's Callie. but it's also his bargain has always been really like surface level

and out there for all to see I will accept who you are in full you cheated on me you killed him all of the things you did in the past

yeah he could have been strawberry Lou I accept this yeah could have could have could have

I accept it because you show me who you are and as soon as she stops doing that which is what's happening now

is that coupled with Cali losing faith or comfort, losing the ability to accept that this is who Shauna is, is that where Jeff draws the line, which actually I would kind of like to see from him. This all feeds into where I want to wrap up today, which is that, you know, we end with, Shauna takes off in the Sedecki family van. She's got this hunting knife that she has purchased from the gas and sip. Love the hunting knife. With like the orange price tag on it.

Um, there's this discussion on Reddit about Shauna as a Walter White-esque figure. And if, spoiler for breaking back. Yeah. Walter White, who starts as a family man who we initially root for because he's doing some tough things in order to, quote, protect his family. Not sure Shauna has that excuse in regards to Adam, but okay. And this idea that like we're watching Shauna and we're like, we kind of understand, we kind of root. She's still like, we like Jeff. We care about.

She seems like she could kind of be an okay mom. And there are excuses she's making about protecting her home life, but where it all ends. Spoilers for Breaking Bad. Where it all ends. Spoilers for Breaking Bad. With Walter White admitting, I did it for me, I liked it. I was good at it. And I was really, I was alive.

Yes. So the way in which we've seen, Shauna, like, hands shaking with excitement about potentially shooting a gut. You know, I mean, like, all of this, this addictive. nature of it and this like this reawakening. Yes. From the moment she like stabbed that rabbit in the yard with her shovel, like reawakening of who she was in the wilderness. Yes.

And how that made her feel. Yes. Not buried in suburbia, but alive. Yeah. I think that is Shana's story ultimately. And we've heard, you know, the moments where she voiced that again, like to go back to Adam's studio. I know we've talked about this at one point in the last few weeks.

Like when she said to Jeff, like, you know, I used to think about these. and like I felt like a pervert and now, like I like that part of myself. Shawna, and in general the show and what the show has to say about like the darkness within and what happens when you touch the darkness, right, to bring in rings of power as well and to the just various and sundry pop culture temples that we've discussed and spoiled on this episode. You know, sometimes you have to touch the darkness before you know, but then sometimes you like it when you touch the darkness and that actually feels like the awakening of your true self,

the acknowledgement of your true self. I think that's like you're saying with the rabbit and the cleaver. They're from day one with Shauna. So I don't know that Shauna has ever been like good. No, no, no, no. And I don't think you could ever say that like Walter White, like once he starts cooking meth and like dissolving bodies and bathtub spores or breaking bed, like you're not like that's good.

But there's like a, I think the. point is like there's a tipping point. Where you're watching Breaking Bad and you're like, well, he's doing some stuff. Right. This is not a redemption story. But we're working for him, blah, blah. You know, we're rooting for him, blah, blah. Shauna did shit from the beginning and I'm still kind of

like, Shawna, I hope everything works out for you. Are we getting, are we approaching a point where I don't feel that way about Shawna anymore? Yeah. And is it running parallel with what we're seeing with Shauna in the past? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that could also be part of this is a version of the email we got, you know,

Van and Ty, like part of the dialing up, like you're saying, of Shana in the past to make us less inclined to refer her, though. It sounds like that's not the reaction everyone's having to it. But yeah, I don't know that I want Shana. Now I'm like, I'm interrogating my own feeling about what I want from Shana because I have often, I think, held Shana in some state of, I've long been trepidacious in terms of how Shana behaves and the decisions that she's made, but that has been interesting to me. You know, making the mistake, like the one she made with Adam was so tragic, especially on the heels of, like, feeling so awakened by that spark with him.

Yeah. I don't necessarily want Shauna to get caught or, like, arrested. You know, as recently as last season when Hot Kevin was in pursuit of her, I was like, no, I want Shauna to make it out of this. And I think I still do, but I do want Shauna to have to confront the cost of her decisions, like on other people. that it's actually despite the queen of hearts not just a deck of cards

that she is gambling with everybody's lives including her own family really recklessly in like this kind of I am the sole arbiter and I am not just the antler queen but God like instinct and compulsion. I'm the most important person in any scenario I will fuck up your business dinner to the Jolz

because I just feel like I'm over it and this is beneath you and so I've just decided I'm going to fuck it up Yeah, was the tipping point? Tapas? Was it last week when she pretended she wasn't feeling well? Maybe. To make Jeff leave the room is that one.

Shana lost us? Maybe it was tapas. All right. Last and all least, favorite needle drop of the episode, Malay Rubin. It's got to be Sugar-A. It's Sugar-A. Come on. Oh, could it not be.

Come on. This has been another episode. A thousand of our covering yellow jackets. We've had people asking questions about the scheduling of this podcast. We really do our best to put it out on Monday, but things happen. I was traveling. This one's my fault. I'm so sorry.

It's all fine. We'll be back on Monday next week. Theoretically, I don't want to make any promises. We will do our best. And we would like to thank John Richter and Steve Allman. I'm staying late today. Thanks, guys. Our General Ram Capel for all of his work everywhere on the feed.

Jummy a dinner on. Wig wearer extraordinaire. Wonderful stuff. And we'll be back later this week. Double devil. Oh, yeah. With Mallory Rubin? Can't wait.

And my best friend Bullseye. You can fix him. I don't know if he's in these episodes. We'll see. All right. Bye.