House of R - 'Yellowjackets' Episode 8 Deep Dive

Episode Date: March 31, 2025

Eat it! Mal and Jo are here to dive into the latest episode of 'Yellowjackets.' They discuss Hilary Swank’s introduction as Melissa, Shauna’s dreams, and the fracturing of the group in both the past and present. Hosts: Mallory Rubin and Joanna Robinson Producer: Carlos Chiriboga Video Supervision: John Richter Social: Jomi Adeniran Addition Production Support: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This episode is brought to by Paramount Plus. Beth and Rip are back in a new series, Dutton Ranch. Kelly Riley and Colehouser returned, and this time they're taking on Texas. As Beth and Rip build a future together, peace will have to wait as they face corruption, danger, and a ruthless rival ranch, willing to protect its secrets at all costs. Legacy is a beautiful thing, but only if it survives. Dutton Ranch starring Colehouser, Kelly Riley,

Annette Benning and Ed Harris now streaming on Paramount Plus. This episode is brought to by Whole Foods Market. Spring is here, so celebrate it with fresh, juicy, seasonal produce and some very tasty, limited time flavors. New Whole Foods, Market Peach, Apricot, Rose, Italian soda. Perfect for a picnic or brunch, as is their trending mango, Yuzu chantilly cake. But if you're on the go, new 365 strawberry pretzels make a great sweet snack. That sounds delicious.

Get savings with yellow sale sign store. Shorewide and everyday low prices on 365 brand items. Enjoy the fresh flavors of spring. Save at Whole Foods Market. Back to House of R. I'm Joanna Robinson. And it is everybody's favorite, four-eyed freak mushroom girl. It's Mallory Rubin.

Hello. That was how I knew that the last of us was canon in the Yellow Jackets universe. Some mushroom humor. Tis the season. And I'd also like to add that you can't go wrong with furniturefam.net. Can't go wrong? Can't go wrong with Furniturefam.net. And also, there's some apple slander inside of this episode as well.

I've targeted directly at our personal palette, I think. Listen, we're here to talk to you about Yellow Jacket, Season 3, episode 8. We are, like, running out of episodes. We're a run out of season. We're almost to the end of Season 3 of Yellow Jackets. This week's episode is titled A Normal Boring Life, written by Julia Bicknell, directed by Anya Adams. And so we're going to talk about that. Spoilers up through Season 3, Episode 8 of a normal boring life.

I'm just going to zoom. Mallory's not feeling very well, as we mentioned last week. Sorry. When Van and I recorded at the end of last week about Revenge of the Sith, we did mention that Mallory is feeling under the weather. Then Van asked our listeners, hey, where does that? medium come from. And we got a lot of emails from listeners, citing a specific book, wherein they learned that it is sailing lingo. When you're sick, they don't keep you below deck. They put you on above deck under the weather. So that's where you hang out when you're exiled to the upper decks of the ship when you're coughing your head off and sort of, I'm sure that went really well for all those sailors.

But Mallory is safely out of the weather. It is drizzling in Los Angeles. Yeah. Yeah. So we're going to kind of zip through Yellow Jackets today just to save Mallory's life and voice. And also, I'll just quickly say, Daredevil coverage, is this the week we finally do some Daredevil coverage? We hope so. That's our plan. Our plan is to cover the several episodes that we missed to do a sort of comprehensive

episode later this week. The Midnight Boys, Pee, are also doing, of course, stair-devil coverage. There's a new ring-in-verse recommends up for your enjoyment. And if you haven't listened to that, please do because Ben went above and beyond on this month's Ringervis recommends in a very unusual way. And I recommend you listen or watch that. And then also, it's almost last of us time. That's right. It's common. It's coolmen. The mushrooms are coming. So, you know, that's a lot to keep track of. You can watch us on YouTube. You can watch us on Spotify. You can follow the pod on your podcast listener listening app of your choice.

Falls on social. Whatever social you feel is right in your spirit to follow these days, we're out there, we're on there, do all of us. And then you can always email us, Hobbits and Dragons at gmail.com if you have Yellow Jackets, thoughts are feelings, daredevil thoughts are feelings, anticipatory and or last of us thoughts or feelings or anything else. or, I don't know, fun home remedies for Mallory to try to soothe her aching throat. So that is what is happening here today.

I'm going to quickly just run through what I have this week for the unreliable narrator, hallucinator slash dreamer counter, and you let me know if I'm missing anyone, okay? We open with a fun dream. And as is often the case with Yellow Jacket, it's not entirely clear who's dreaming. Is it Shauna in the Wilderness who later sees a moth from her dream in her waking hours? Or is it Shauna in the minivan who sort of like jolted herself awake like she was dreaming of Jackie in the supermarket? Or was it a shared dream? We've experienced shared dreams before on this show.

Mari, Misty, Van, all have dreams of back home, of the sweet, sweet 90s life back home. Yeah. this episode. So the ties are dreaming of each other, you know, one might say. And then I'm calling it Achilla unhuffed. Love it. Yep. No gas from the caves, just pure nightmare visions of her sweet, sweet animals dead and the crops. This is a very Joseph and the amazing technical or dreamt of her to dream of livestock. You know, they walked a long distance. Who knows? Did they pass over? a cave where gaseous fumes were coursing. Had she previously warned that amply threaded loose yarned poncho into the cave? Pockets of gas. Every time you pull out of

a handy thread to leave a trail, just a little puff. Who knows? Who could say? Okay. Is your poncho currently storing gas? Let us know at hobbits and dragons at gmail.com. Okay. Mailboxes, etc. L'Aruven. Our most faithful swank is Melissa Truther. How does it feel to be right? It's great. I'm happy.

When she walked down into the kitchen with the backwards hat, I was just like, you know what? It feels good. It feels good to see that backwards hat. I'm excited to hit some of the theories and alternate interpretations that still exist. But I like it. I like that Hillary Swank is in fact, it seems, playing adult Mel and that the enthusiasm for the backwards hat has lasted 25 years into the future. I used to be a backwards hat enthusiast in my youth.

And I let the passion lapse and I don't totally know why. And I was considering wearing a backwards hat today. But then as I told you guys before we started recording, I realized 10 minutes before we were recorded that we've been in person until I got sick. I haven't been home in a while. in that time I got a new desk. None of my stuff was plugged in. And I was like, can I figure out how to make backwards hat work on top of getting these lights and my plugged in? Probably not.

Let's save it for another pod. Let's do backwards hat. Well, I won't be here next week. Oh, yeah, that's, I should say that. I won't be here next week. So Mallory will be yellowjacketing and daredevling or whatever she decides to do. She might say, hey, Van, let's debate a Star Wars movie at the last minute. Who knows?

But I won't be here next week. I will be out in New York on vacation. So Mallory will be a gamely covering for me next week, provided her voice returns in full. And then we'll be back together for the finale. But maybe for the finale, backwards baseball caps for the finale. That sounds like a fun idea to me. I'm in. Yeah.

Okay, great. I don't think I have one, but I'll find one. I'm not generally a hat person. The hat was deeply stupid, and I think everyone agrees. But I felt very happy for you that you got that immediate visual confirmation that that was. was indeed, Melissa. That was my version of, you know, when Mando sees Grogo and he's like, it's the shirt. Yeah, the shirt.

When she took the hat off, I was like, thank you, good God. Okay, great. Okay, so to the sort of question of, is, should Mallory be rewarded for being a faithful, truth, or all season? Yes. Is there a popular, and I think fairly flimsy? theory on the internet right now that this is one big Shauna hallucination that Shawna herself may have some pockets of gas in her flannel and has hallucinated. It's a lot of vending machine intake at the jolly hitcher who hasn't had a pocket of gas

inside their flannel after that. We've got a bunch of females about this. This like is Melissa figment of Shauna's imagination theory? And that would suggest yes. But everything else suggests no to me. And I will say this. We don't usually talk about like trailers or anything like that, but I just want to say there has been, there was one promotional image of Hillary Swank this season. And it was her out on the road.

So if Melissa is indeed a figment of Shawna's imagination, she's going to be traveling at some point. And I feel like figments don't usually last, you know, like Lottie's imaginary therapist never left the imaginary therapy office. Do you know what I mean? It's just sort of like, I feel like figments don't usually travel. But we'll see. Perhaps this figment will. We'll see. I thought that the Apple Wars family conversation seemed to confirm that there was, in fact, another person there.

But maybe all of that were figments of Shana's imagination. Well, maybe, I mean, maybe it's just a lady. And, like, yes, there were multiple people there, but maybe this lady really is just Kelly. and then like the other yellow jackets show up and Kelly's like, I don't know who this woman is in my kitchen with hunting knife harassing me. She's don't want to eat a part of my arm. My name is simply Kelly and I just like backwards baseball hats.

You can't pin anything else on me. Could be. All right. We're going to come back obviously to Shana and Melissa who's been like the bulk of the present day plot line is the two of them in the kitchen, in the Virginia kitchen. So we'll get back to that. The kitchen. Beautiful home. Oh, lovely.

I mean, a boring, normal, happy. Boring, normal. Honestly, looks great. Goles. Minus the gym membership, though I did like young Mel being like a gym membership that I won't use. And this Mel is definitely using that gym. Clearly using it. But my version of it would be the not using it part, though I would never have it in the first place.

That's what they're always counting on. They'll get the gym membership and then you won't go. Yeah, well, they can't get to me because I'm never fucking signing up in the first place. All right. Let's do the breakdown. Oh, on the like, you know how I've been here in Los Angeles forever? And I, like, am trapped here for the rest of my life now. To me, it feels like but a moment.

I got an email for my... A precious moment. Speaking of gym memberships, I got an email for my gym being like, hey, we notice you're using the Glendale gym. Do you live there now? Do you want to transfer your membership over to Glendale, California? And I was like, I'll be back, Bay Area. I'll be back for you.

Okay. Wow. You just need to be near the Americana at Brand Memes account. Good Instagram. Okay. Good Instagram. Once you've spent enough time down here, you'll know what I mean. Okay.

All right. Pass. We're going to break down the past. Yes. Anything you want to say about Misty doing her best Velma from Scooby-Doo impression and getting her glasses, her slightly cracked glasses back? So I don't have glasses, as you know, because I haven't been to the eye doctor. Or any doctor?

In a decade and a half. But I did think that, boy, it seemed like that would be a real headache-inducing experience to have one side of your glasses, like, cracked and fractured like that seemed. Misty was happy to discover them. Seemed unpleasant. What I was thinking of, I love the Velma call out. It's like, okay, we didn't go quite, quite to the time enough at last. Twilight's in place with Misty, right? We're like Misty has cultivated this.

Obviously, she's gone through it. It hasn't been perfect. But cultivated this experience of like incorporation into the group, a role. They need her. They rely on her. They turned her. And then boom, right? When you think you could just spend all your time reading books, your glasses break, spoiler.

Didn't quite go there. So I was glad that she was able to discover them. and I hope that her headaches are manageable. Few and far between. Yeah. I feel like I'm trying to think of what my life would be like. But my prescription isn't nearly as strong as Misty's is. So like her seems quite strong.

So yeah, maybe this explains some later unhinged behavior from her because. Yeah, I think if I had, yeah, anyway, okay. Present-day Misty crush in it as always. Oh, the best. Great. person on the show continually. When is my Walter and Misty spinoff coming? Okay, so Cody, Travis, and Akila

are hiking to a pickup point. And Travis, Akila's like, this doesn't feel right. She's not going to be the last person to say that this episode. Yeah. And Travis is like, babe, you're not special.

You've been huffing gas. I don't have vision. I was drinking mushroom tea. You were huff and cave gas. None of this is real. Let's go the fuck home. And Akila's like, I don't know about that. I like being special and leaves a little thread of her poncho, her gas-trapped poncho on the tree for Missy to find.

What do you make? Travis says his visions don't mean anything. He says it's just mushroom tea. And there's certainly an interpretation where that could be true. The mushroom tree, the screaming that he heard was just the frog sex, like all this sort of stuff like that. But what do you make about the drawing that he made during Ben's trial? on the bark of, you know, one of his bark scrolls. And it's a body and then three people sort of walking into frame.

And a lot of people think that's like it's Ben. Because when we first thought, I was like, what the hell is this? Ben and then the Froggers. Yep. Or the two frog scientists and Cody sort of walking into the camp. And then that's what he was sort of predicting with his drawing there. Do you buy that? Do you think it's all still living in a fuzzy place?

of plausible deniability. What do you think? Yeah, I think plausible deniability still. I really like that, you know, we started to talk about this last episode, this shift back into, oh, we're hitting the, there's always another explanation drum very heavily. Just a week after we had had our, like, is this the most supernatural thing that has ever, like, happened on the show? Yeah. So I like how many, obviously, this is part of like the divide inside of the camp, but I like how many characters in both timelines because obviously it's it's not quite as an apples to apples of a supernatural thing, but it's very of a piece thematically with what's happening around Shawna in the present day timeline where Mel away from Shawna, but Jeff and Callie are like, isn't it Misty previously?

Isn't it possible that there's just another explanation for all of this? So they've really been hammering that. Frankly, in a way, that makes me like more skeptical of it because it's so central. but I like actually, I really like and I'm glad that we've reentered this period of like, this is an active debate. It can be a debate inside of each person in the universe and it can be a debate inside of each person watching it. And maybe we will get a definitive answer one day and maybe we don't. I think in terms of that drawing, like even the hearing the sound, I'm kind of like, well, did the, does being, does like imbibing mushroom tea heighten your hearing? Otherwise, he still heard that sooner and louder than everybody else. And the drawing is a great call. Also, it does still feel like something is happening, but maybe there's another explanation for how. I thought it was interesting that, like, this was where in this same stretch, Akila said, like, we all know Ben was supposed to be our way home.

And so Akila has not been listening to Yellow Jacket's podcasts where we're all like, yeah, but he still is the bridge because he brought. And so Travis's bark drawing really almost now when you look at it and everybody's flat, it is kind of very bridge-like and reminiscent of the way even that Aquila saw Ben, like sprawled and stretched out in her cave gas vision. So I think it's all still in the brew here of possibility. But I liked hearing Travis voice it. And in particular, even though we have seen this season and certainly last season, you know, the loty hand on chest, Travis gets a boner. What a memorable scene that was. Travis has absolutely dabbled with belief, true belief in moments of need. And has responded.

That will be key to adult Travis. Exactly. At the end of his life. Yeah. And so we know he will get back to that place. But this was hearing Travis say, like, I made it up, this is all made up. It's not real. It felt like the first time in a while where we had the ability, even though when Nat said it,

it was not capturing the full truth to understand how adult Nat could have said, like, he never believed in this shit, like that he would have worked himself back to a grounded. there's another explanation phase at some point. So I thought that was all interesting. Were you missing as I was inside of this episode a moment where like, I just am still very thirsty for Nat and Travis connection. And so like I wish there had been more made of not being like you were going to go back without me, that sort of thing.

Do you know? Definitely. Because I understand pulling them apart, especially since like both of those actors, both of those characters are not alive in the modern story. time and you know and all that sort of stuff like that but like I'm going to need to see their reconnection if yeah they spend the rest of their life sporadically seeking comforts in each other and in their own addictions and stuff like that you know absolutely and like nat the way nat responded to Travis's death which is our introduction to nat it's our like formative experience

with nat the place that they are in together right now in the past obviously they're have gone through some meaningful, memorable stuff together, but I kind of like wouldn't totally feel like it connected to that. So we do need to see a rekindling, I think. I felt like we were there. I felt like we were returning there with his help with Coach Ben's death and stuff like that. So I felt like we were on the path to that. And I would just like to see that continue to ramp up. Okay. Hannah's being interrogated by the girls. And we get this great shot of all the girls gathered around sort of the POV of the camera

being Hannah and Van asking quite crucially, if Mulder and Skuller and Skuller, get together. Love that for band. Incredible moment. Love that for all of them. What would be your first question? Like if you put yourself in this present daytime. Yeah. Too hard to go back to the mid-90s. Yeah. If you had been a year and a half ago, you know, a year plus ago, a year ago, you were lost in the wilderness. We never stopped looking just FYI. Unlike the families of the yellow jackets, we kept looking. What's the first question you asked somebody when they make their way into your camp? What do you need to know from the last year? Well, let's not get real about it

Because the real question has to do with our national politics And I'm not going to ask that question I'm going to say, was Severn season two good? Let's just say that. Wow. Does Severn stick the landing or something like that? Yeah, how about you? Did the O's win the World Series?

I'd be like, did Gunner win MVP and did the O's win the World Series? Did Lamar win his third MVP and did the Ravens with the Super Bowl? I honestly might ask, this would feel like a wasted question. I apologize to George, but I would be inclined to ask. Any chance George finished wins? Any chance? I just talked to someone who has some inside track and has been like a long time true believer. And I was like, do you think George is going to finish wins?

And for the first time, this person was like, no. And I was like, wow. Okay, here we are. Well, that's upsetting. Anyway, that means that we all get to make up what Winds of Windsor was together. in our collective brains. Okay. Hannah starts to tell them about the frogs,

and Shana is deeply uninterested in frog orgies at a crucial moment cutting off before Hannah can say, it sounds like this primal screaming that you've attributed to the wilderness. Yes. And it's pretty clear the Yellow Jacket story hasn't lingered all that long in the public consciousness, the way that, like, you know, they might have hoped that it would.

There are no baby Jessica, as it were. And Shauna is outraged. Yeah. But also, on the one hand, Shauna's mad must be a Tuesday. Like, that's fine. But, like, also, I think it helps form her narrative of, like, I'm important out here and I won't be important back home.

You know? Interesting. Yeah. I like that. I find this a little bit difficult to believe. like that this would not have been one of the biggest stories in the world for quite a long time.

Especially in the 90s when like the new cycle was like yeah lasted longer. And I knew like every tabloid story that existed in the mid-90s. Their families are on the cover of every magazine for five years after this. So I mean obviously they did have enough

you know notoriety and name recognition for Hannah to be like oh oh right. Yeah. After the quick like okay. We're from New Jersey. We're a soccer team. Our playing. Oh, yeah, you guys.

But I don't think, I just, like, don't buy, I guess that it would have faded that quickly. But Hannah also is focused on other things, you know? Like Hannah and Edwin had a, yeah, a vibrant life focused on secretions and mating calls. So, like, who knows how much time she was spending looking at the magazine racks? Life. Exactly. Totally normal. All right.

I love this moment when Hannah asks of Sean is the captain of the team, right? Right. Great stuff. First of all, Melissa scoffs. Wonderful. But then, of course, Nat is like, no, the captain's dead,

actually. Jackie's dead. That's who was the captain of the team. And Lottie is like catatonic through all of this conversation. And Shauna tells Tateau watchers they run off with Misty to find Cody and Travis and Akila.

Anything you want to say about how Hannah handles herself here in this very scary situation? Lottie's initial reaction or do you just want to get to Akila's really incredible improv work with The Rock in her show? We could get to The Rock of the Shum.

I only know for Lottie is, you know, she does this later. I would personally clean the blood off my face sooner. It's just, for me, I would clean the brain blood off my face sooner in terms of thinking of managing the group.

If you want someone to take you seriously, maybe don't be smeared in the blood of the innocent frog scientist that you just murdered. File it away for next time. Just a note, a simple note. Okay. So Akela does the shit with her shoes to solve for time to get some time. The girls show up. I thought this dynamic was so interesting because, like, after Ben dies, Travis is, like, the only dude in the camp. And even though, like, him being the only dude in camp has been less of a conversation topic than I might have thought, both like in terms of his sexual assignations, maybe he's just so traumatized by all of the encounters that he's had so far.

But also just like in terms of dynamics. Like he is just like fully ensconced himself in like, I'm just going to. drink mushroom tea and be in this hammock if you need me and don't worry about it and I will help or whatever. But like his, his gender hasn't really sort of presented itself. But there was a moment where it's like Cody's here and Travis is here and they're surrounded by all these girls. And it's like, what are we? And you know, and Travis has a weapon. And it's like, what are we going to do? And and then Nat says, let's go back and Travis is like, oh, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm a, I'm with the girl. Let's go back. You know? And that felt somewhat intentional to me. I don't know that I can fully parse to you what I think that means. But I think, you know, the idea that Cody, because it could have been two, you know, could be two women in the woods and like that. But there's something about Joel McHale's like machismo military energy that he's bringing into this dynamic. So like when the teenage girls later are like this doesn't feel right. We don't want to follow this guy into the woods.

I think that's an element of it, even though they haven't voiced that specifically. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, with unexplained scars that they will presumably also hear at some point are from a Sasquatch. Yeah, I'm curious to see. You know you never fucked a bear. You never fucked a bear. Great stuff.

It's been too long since that's come up. Yeah, I'm interested to like, because obviously Travis, I thought the decision Travis made on delay, but ultimately fairly quickly to like. like align back with the group was one of self-preservation, but also loyalty. And then, you know, as we'll get to the cover that he and Akela provide for each other, like that loyalty to Akela feels like something that is really palpable, like this shared experience that the two of them have had and obviously also with Lottie. And then I really agree with what you said earlier about Travis and Nat and hoping that,

especially now that we have this like Stago faction split, you know, Travis, maybe the way he went about it was, we have some notes. So then the group would have some notes, certainly. But like, Travis and Nat, they're very clear-eyed. Like, rescue his calm. It's simple. Let's go. So they're aligned.

And then there's this potential Cody Travis tie that you're, I think, really smartly observing. So who is Travis, like, most drawn to moving forward? I just feel in general, obviously mostly with Nat. and missing that relationship. But in general, that Travis has been, like, very absent from the season in a way I have not loved. Like, he's such an interesting character to me.

He's here, but he's just passive. Yeah. I'm hoping that he's about to be more present in the last couple of episodes. He's taking mushroom tea. He's going into the caves of the Kila. Like, he's here, but, you know, not in a way that I feel like I understand him anymore than I understand Jen, who is also just here. Yeah, Jen, totally just here.

Even like when Nat went to basically like say goodbye, you know, to coach and there was that like interesting moment. He wasn't with her in the fuselage. Yeah, I know. Why was Travis not with her in the fuselage? They have fun memories of that of that spot. Yeah, exactly. And I'm talking, of course, about the albinobos. Okay.

So, um, Shawna and Nat are butting heads over whether they should lead with Cody and Hannah. Missy worries about Cody, like Cody. This is when we're talking about like this is an early version of the of the, of the end of episode argument of like we should say we should go, what will the consequences be? Can we trust them? Can we keep them alive? But I like the way that Nat is just sort of like invigorated by this rescue. You know, she had her authority taken from her and she was just sort of like, okay, she sort of rolled over on it. But given what's happening here and now, she's just sort of like,

she's giving orders and she's saying what they should do. And she's sort of naturally back into this leadership position, which is just so interesting because I did not think before of Nat as a natural leader. She took it because it was given to her and she did a pretty good job with her. But like thinking back to like Ben's trial when she was the judge and she seemed almost like checked out. So I just don't think of her as someone who like, I don't want it. Like wants the authority, needs the authority. But it is like naturally good at it.

And Shauna isn't. Shawna has to like aggressively assert her authority and not and Jackie both are people with just sort of like natural authority that people want to follow you know? Yes, absolutely and I think the Jackie call out is so interesting because I think Jackie and Nat

it's so radically distinct especially through the lens of high school life where like Jackie was the cool girl Jackie was the popular one Jackie was the one Jackie was the one who was trying to kind of live very loudly in front of people's eyes, like in a way that demanded notice. And that was really like, even though she was a part of the Yellow Jackets team, and that was, of course, part of what made that team dynamic so interesting to think of

through the lens of her character, very much an outsider, right? And had this like, yeah. But she's actually cool. Like Jackie is popular and that is like actually cool. That's the most high school thing of all, right? That like that is this like actually interesting person with like things to say in ideas and a perspective that like demands attention and that the wilderness would be a place where other people started to really recognize that and gravitate toward it.

And I've loved that. And so like when the moment of anointing that initially came to be, the fact that there has been this now, like return where she is more ready to embrace a position that maybe she didn't believe or no was right for her initially. And she said, no, like, I can be the one to lead us. And, you know, that in part what happened with Ben, like, which we talked about at the time, she knew. Like, she knew what she was risking and knew what she was compromising and was willing to do it because she was that sure she was right. Now, sometimes, of course, that level of like, uh, certainty that the decision that you make is the right one no matter the consequences

can be quite dangerous. That's a classic Sean. move to be honest. Totally. Yeah. And so I mean, it's like a little Captain America's Civil War where like, you know, the safest hands are still our own. Like, who are you willing to trust with that kind of power? And it's like, Shawna has not actually earned that trust and will behave recklessly if given the chance. Is that true for, go through the roster of all the remaining characters? Like, you understand why people would want to follow Nat and why she would want to lead. I just, I agree. I really agree with what you've, said multiple times the season, like I am missing her. We were so confounded and sad in the end of season two, but I'm just missing that element so much in the present day. And seeing that in the past just makes you long for it in the present even more. It's a real bummer. Real bummer.

Okay. We've come now to a great little montage with a great needle drop. All right by Supergrass starts playing. This I identify most as being from the clueless soundtrack. though it, you know, has been used in many things, but it is used quite memorably in clueless during the like little Thai-Eltan photo session sequence. But Mari is theoretically supervising Kone and Hannah burying Edwin in a pit. But she's actually thinking about drinking Mallory's favorite Bev, a blue, icy, slurpy, whatever you want to call it. Great stuff.

Malar Rubin, have you heard the good word about the pomegranate theory? I love a pomegranate theory. Always. Love some Persephone talk. Let's do it. Let's go to Greek mythology corner. So obviously this show loves to interact with Greek mythology in the Hades and Persephone myth, which if you were dialed into severance coverage was something we talked a lot about

and we talked about severance. But in that myth, Persephone who goes to the underworld and then her mother negotiates a way out of the underworld for Persephone before she goes, he's like, hey, you want, you look peckish. Yeah. Want some, want some pomegranate? Want to eat a seed or two or three? She does.

She eats some seeds. And the rule is you don't eat food in the underworld because you eat food in the underworld. You have to stay in the underworld. And so Persephone has to split custody between her mom and her husband between above ground and below. Okay. So don't eat food in the underworld. So there is this pomegranate in theory going around for yellow jackets about the

characters who eat or drink something in a dream space. So, for example, Jackie drinks the cocoa inside of the dream that she and Shauna seem to both be having. And then Jackie dies. Yep. The cocoa will return inside of this episode. Lottie has that sort of hypothermia dream of the mall. And Laura Lee stops her from eating the Chinese food. Yeah.

And is basically like, it's not your time. time. I'm wondering, I didn't, I didn't clock it personally at the time. You might have mentioned it. I know you mentioned that mall sequence recently, but like, the fact that Chinese food is so closely associated with the end of Lottie's life and the Chinese, it was Chinese food, like, takeout Chinese food containers in that mall sequence. And again, poorly reviewed, no less. Yeah. But like, she ate the Chinese food and then she died. Okay. So Lottie doesn't eat the Chinese food in that dream sequence and she lives. This season we have, seen Akela eat a bunch of berries inside of a dream sequence, and we just watch Mari slurped down a blue, slurpy, or icy. So are you putting, is Vegas taking any odds on the survival of Mari and Akila inside of the season, inside of the series? What do you think? I really like this theory. It does feel like either actually right or at least something that they're playing with and they kind of want to invite as speculation. Listen, we're on the record.

Possibly the greatest turnaround in the history of House of R. Mari, maybe of podcasting and of media. Yeah. If Mari dies this season, I don't know what we'll do. I'll be inconsolable. And I will just be so impressed. Like, if they kill Mari and I am devastated, that is, I mean, they whiffed a bunch of stuff this season. Yeah.

They whiffed so many things this season. But rehabbing Mari to then, like, kill her in a pit or otherwise, like, I will be deeply impressed with them pulling that off. And us being like, no, Marie. You can't kill Mari. Why wasn't it, Shawna? Okay. I just, yeah, I like this theory a lot.

And I loved this stretch with the slurpy into the... The toilet. Misty on the toilet. You know, you talk about associations. We always associate Misty with a good shit. after she, you know, gently hummed and sank to Ben so that he could take a shit against the tree back in season one, fond memory. That was really wonderful and hysterical to see the grabbing of the toeble, rubbing it on her face. Loved it.

Very funny. You didn't want to talk about Crystal? Crystal and Shit Ridge? Crystal and Shit Ridge, you know. Yeah. We remember her still, even though nobody but Misty does. Oh, God. And then Van imagines a big cushy bed, and it really stressed me.

You're someone who loves to make a difference between indoor and outdoor clothing, inside outside clothing. I'm not the same. You and I are not the same. But dirty clothes and dirty shoes on an all-white bedding. Horrible. I hate to see it. Let me tell you, actually, there was another moment in this episode where bed hygiene was actually more top of mind for me. Because ultimately, we understand. Oh, Jeff. Yes. We understand that Vann is fantasizing, but Jeff is on a real fucking bad. A disgusting hotel one.

And so I had my, I had two reactions, both very strong. Get your shoes and your outside clothes off the bed, you savage. And also get your body off of the hotel outer linens. Are you insane? It's the jolly itcher. Get your face out of that pillow, Jeff. I know you have to sleep with your face on a pillow theoretically, but just like the way his face is all the way in that pillow.

I was like, outer comforter, Jeff. I mean, we might want to reconsider if the art. Welts are just from anxiety after all, I don't know. Oh, yeah, bedbugs. Great stuff. Love to see it. I believe you can wear clothing you've worn outside whilst on your bed, but not your shoes. And not if it's like, if those clothes are dirty.

Okay. Yes. So Ty and Van have this conversation that informs Tye's later stance of, I don't want to go back home. Yeah. Which is Tye is rightly pointing out, hey, man, it's still the mid-90s in America. Yep. And we are teenage girls. And do you think we can just come back and be teenage girls in love in America in the 90s?

And a couple of things that play here. The Yellow Jacket subreddit, always iconic, pointed out that Ellen's very, very, you know, groundbreaking Time magazine cover of like, hey, I'm Ellen, I'm gay. Came out in 97. So like right around now. So like right around now. That doesn't mean that everything was okay. or, you know, lesbian teen girls in New Jersey or anywhere.

So, Ty is not without merit in her argument here. I think what is existed in the side of this conversation she's having with Van is also seeds of the things that Van raised obliquely about why they broke up in the first place, this idea that, like, Ty felt like she needed to accomplish all the things that she needed to accomplish. could not be with a woman and then wound up with Simone anyway. But, like, you know, it was like, hey, I have these ambitions. I can't be gay and black and America and achieve these things. And so the seeds of that are planted here and some of the things that Ty says. Our futures would be fucked, right? Right.

Et cetera, et cetera. And then we get the eyeless man over Ty shoulder, which is supposed to indicate to us that the other one is here. One's driving the bus now, right? Yeah. And to sort of reflect that with the other one appearance at the end of the episode who's saying, basically you can't protect. You can't do what it needs.

You never believed. You can't protect her. Only I can protect her. This idea that the other one comes out when it's in protection of van and tie. Yeah. Or van is interesting to me. But I got to say, I think it was a mistake. to reveal the Isles Man as a mascot of an ice cream shop or whatever that is.

Because, like, I really do love the way in which this season has really skated the line between plausible deniability of the supernatural. I really do like that. I think there's a way that Ilus Man could have showed up, like, in a horror movie or something that was like, oh, this was part of something that. something that Ty saw a lot growing up, you know? And so it's still like an image from pop culture or something like that. But making it this weird little mascot really neutered the impact of that person to me when he popped up over her shoulder. What did you think? Interesting.

So as ever, I was horrified. Looked waxier than ever. more like a Halloween pullover than than ever before. Yeah. Distressing. Also just paired with obviously deeply alarming lear from Ty from the other one. Yeah. So I have a couple things in response.

I think on the no-eyes front, I'm compelled by your argument. I think for me it goes the other way because. there's something about the idea. Like, if it was a horror movie, you would expect to be scared. But there's something about fear lurking in a place that should be safe. Yeah. And a place that should be like childlike and cotton candy and stuff like that. Yeah.

On the one hand, yes. And that's very like, I don't know, like twin peaksy. And like, on the one hand, I agree with that. Like, what's the danger underneath the Americana? Yeah. But in that case, I would need it to be like a freaking like pink unicorn. corner or something. You know, like, I think it should be something that then

is infused with that fear. Yeah. I feel like the fact that, like, you would stumble upon, like, I'm thinking even from my childhood, now this is an example from a horror movie, so this is a, in that sense, a bad example, but I didn't sit down. Like, I did not seek out a horror movie, but saw it a friend's house.

His older brother was put on child's play. And then, like, from that point on, I was so scared of Chuckie that, like, anything could trigger that fear, like a doll that looked like him. If I was in Blockbuster, like, my mom would have to, like, shield the covers of those movies as we walked past. So, like, there's something about kind of stumbling upon something scary in a moment where you're not expecting it. And then that becomes the

thing. Because obviously we saw that, you know, the way Ty saw no eyes, like at her grandmother's death, it's not like it for only manifested in the wilderness. This idea that this would become this kind of specter of doom, because it's scared you so much that it. got its claws or eye lids in you in the first place. And then that would be the thing that became, in another sense, a mascot, a mascot of doom and darkness. I think it's interesting. If she saw it. Yeah.

But the way it's being used here is a signal to us that Rutrow, the other one, is here, right? Because, like, it's over her shoulder. Tai is even looking at him. So it's not like she sees him. Like when she saw him in the outside. with Van earlier this season, it means something to tie because she's like, oh shit, he's here, what is that me, blah, blah. But this time it was for us, I don't know.

I just think that they've been like weirdly inconsistent with, you know, the internal logic of what this person represents. No, that's certainly different, us being the ones to kind of have the jump scare versus a tie having that experience. I think on the van tie exchange, you know, and van replying by saying like, because getting rescued and going home outweighs all of it, you know, obviously like the end, the group that declares that they're going to stay, Lottie, Ty, Shauna, as we'll get to later. Like they kind of all have their own reason. And there's their distinctions across the group certainly. But I think like with Thai and Lottie, this idea that like, like, you actually could be a truer version of yourself out here.

Yes. Is so compelling and interesting to think about it. Obviously, as we talked about it, a lot last week and we'll continue to and have many times before. So John Locke, I mean, the John Locke Lottie stuff in this episode was just like unbelievable. But it's a lost reference. It's a lot of folks, it's all. Stop us if you've heard it before. It's a lost reference.

But this idea that like not only if you go back, will you not. get to be the fullest, the most open version of yourself that you've gotten to be out here when you started over, not in the way you would have chosen, but in the way that you had to, but that you'll actually be sucked back in to the version you were before. And for many people, there would be things of longing and comfort and desire, but then for everybody, presumably, and maybe it's just a matter of the balancing of the scales, right? It's like for some of the people out there the idea that actually the thing that you would be losing and going back without weigh the things you gained again, I have never been lost in the wilderness, but actually

does feel kind of like true to me. And I also like that it's more than just Lottie. Like I think the fact that we have multiple characters who have a version of this feels really important. I think what's to hop ahead to that section, I think what's the most important, most key to me about what Lottie says in that speech. She's talking about unwellness and all and stuff like that. But like the me that I made, right? And so then it becomes not just not just everything you just really beautifully and correctly pointed out. But also this idea, especially being like a young woman in America, let's say.

And who you are, you're Jackie, you're the cool one, the popular one, you're not, you're the outcast, like whatever it is, whatever breakfast club sort of designation you want to give someone. These are things that society paints you as, that the patriarchy paints you as, this identity that's been created for you because of X, Y, Z. And out here in the wilderness, I mean, for better, for worse, and often for worse, because I don't know if you remember, but they're eating people. But, like, for better, these young women have control for the first time in their lives. They have control over their own identity out here, right? Yes. I'm Shawna. I don't have to be in Jackie Shadow, right? I don't have to do this, that, or the other thing. And so, like, I'm Lottie. I don't need to be the one who's, like, mentally unwell and treated with kid gloves and all, like, my – and not only that with Lottie, especially, the thing that everyone said was wrong and unwell about me is the source of my power and importance out here. Exactly. So, yeah. So all of that is very striking to me and very interesting.

and to make it inside of this episode in a way that I hadn't really groked before for Ty about her sexuality and this idea of like back home I'm in the closet and out here I get to love who I want to love. And that is a very strong pull for me, Tyisa Turner. Okay. Let's talk about Melissa. Boring, boring Melissa. I mean, I like Melissa, but, you know, Shauna thinks she's boring. So a couple things. she's yamoring about her ordinary life that she wants back home.

She talks about the gym membership that she'll never use, et cetera, et cetera. And then this is where Shauna sees, it's a death's head hawk moth over Melissa's head. The hawk moth showed up in the supermarket dream, which we'll talk about in the present daytime line thing. But a couple things about this specific moth that is chosen here. of the moths, blah, blah. Moths can represent death and decay, especially a death's head hawk moth, right? But also metamorphosis and change. It's a deathier version of like Jackie's butterfly insignia that we've sort of seen again and again.

And then in Silence of the Lambs, because of course we love to deal with 90s pop culture on the show, if you've never seen Silence of the Lambs. It's one of the best movies ever made. Spoilers your silence of the lambs. Here they come. The killer Buffalo Bill cultivates these hawk moths and puts the pupa of the hawk moth down the throats of his victims.

And his whole pursuit, once again, Spoilish or Sons to the Lamb, but Buffalo Bill's whole pursuit is he's kidnapped. women, starving them, then using their skin to make himself a skin suit so that he, a biologically born male, can be female. That's his whole idea of metamorphosis and transformation. That is his endeavor. And so the hawk moth has a strong pop culture representation.

It's on the iconic Silence of the Lambs poster over Clarissa's mouth, all this sort of stuff like that. So this is here signifying. death, but also exactly what we were talking about, the desire to be in the woods and create your own identity that you feel like is more accurately reflects the inner you than the identity that's been sort of put upon you by society. Two more things that I want to pass it over to you for all your moth thoughts, et cetera, et cetera. Shana trying to sweetly placate Melissa was very Melanie Linsky-coded. to me.

Very just sort of like, I was concerned about it. I don't think we've seen this flavor of Shauna from Sophie and Elise before. So I think everyone's doing a really good job of sort of getting closer and closer. Because there's some Sophie Thatcher stuff that was like classic Juliette Lewis a little bit later. So I think everyone's doing a really good job of sort of getting closer and closer to each other. And then Shauna talks. She said, the reason I took off when you got, babe, when you got the bolts to your chest. And I knew you'd be fine.

And I really wanted to punish the guy who shot you. I still might kill him for you. And I'm the fastest on the team. Yeah, that was great. So, babe, of course I took off. So a couple things. Number one, that's very, like, I really like that inside of the same episode where Hannah asks,

are you the captain of the team, this idea? And in the side of the same episode, where the girls, when they're packing to leave, are putting on their hoodies and their letterman, They're putting back on their yellow jackets regalia, the uniform, the costume of the team. They're putting, there's this great, I'm so sorry, I don't have the user's handle in front of me, but someone sent us this great TikTok that someone made sort of detailing the way in which they're all wearing the same clothes that they were wearing when they were when they crashed. Not all of them, but the main characters are barring a recast or two. And a lot of those, the things that they're wearing are their jackets, are, are Misty's wearing her,

like, you know, equipment manager jacket. Van has her hoodie back on. Maria has her hoodie back on. Like, all this sort of stuff is happening. We're re-yellow jacketing. And so this idea of like your team identity, are you the captain on your team? Are you the fastest on the team? Like, all of that is sort of seeping back into the reality of their life here. But it's also very apex predator of Sean to be like, I'm the fastest. So, which takes us back to the opening sort of capture the flag game that they were playing. Okay. What do you want to say about this, Melissa and Shauna interaction?

So in terms of the, I'm the fastest part, it makes me think back to like that pilot scene between Jackie and the coach. where you're sort of like, do you know why I made you the captain? Right? And like actually then lists all the attributes and claims that other people have over her in terms of being more skilled and more capable on the field. And like the reason that Jackie was in that position from his perspective was because she was like a uniter. She could bring this bickering team often at odds driven by their own agendas to some sort of place of potentially fleeting but cohesion. that was not the way he saw Shawna.

She couldn't, but that was not the way he saw Shawna, right? So it's like one more moment where like the thing that Shauna is claiming and should be proud of and is this like dominant trait. It was also weirdly a way to remember that she doesn't have the thing that would equip her to do the thing she's trying to do now, which is like to lead. I really agree on the Melanie Linsky performance front. like this was, I mean, even just a couple episodes ago, like it made me think of the, you know, manipulating Jeff into going down to get the snacks because like she's got, there's a motive

and an agenda, but like just an iota of like maybe I actually care, but also I have a game I'm running. Very reminiscent of many adult Shawna moment. So I quite, I quite liked that part of it. on the moth front love the silence of the lambs comps obviously a very notable pit in that film

as well put the lotion in the if Marry has to go into the pit at least send her some lotion in a basket down there great stuff the the

you know the idea in the house of the lambs of like coveting you know what do you covet? And thinking about that for each of these characters at this moment in time, what are they seeking, what do they desire, why, how has that driven them so interesting? What are you making of the timeline mixing on the moth front with, so it's one, it's the solo moth above Mel here.

And then in the supermarket dream, there's a fucking army, right? Just a barrage of moths, like to the point where they start cracking the glass and the fluorescent light casing. They're drawn to the light. Should know them better, don't you think, is what Dream Jackie says about it? Yeah. So you are, is now the moment where I try to tell you what the fuck those moths mean in the dream? Let's do it. I don't. I don't know.

Like, is, is it just, like, they're drawn to the light. The only person we see really, like, upon rewatch, the person we see really drawn to the light in this episode. is Misty after she gets her glasses and then there's just sort of like a sunrise to you know, the right of her and she goes and like follows it off screen. Though even Misty's like, what are we going to do

with these people? They might tell on us. But like drawn to the light, drawn to the light of rescue. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So that's the wrong thing to do. Mm-hmm.

But was it? I mean, because they don't get, we have another winter to go. Yes. is not happening. They're not getting rescued right now. Right. So like it was a mistake, like they didn't get rescued. So I'm, I'm having trouble sort of mapping it one to one on anything. What's your, what's your theory? What's your dream interpretation corner with Mallory Rubin? I'm, I don't know. I don't know either. I'm always, the stuff that you already ran through

about like rebirth and identity, that felt much clearer to me is like why this, the symbol of the Moth was an interesting one to present in the story and for Shana specifically. But like, in terms of the, they're drawn to the light should have known better, don't you think, Jackie line to Shana, which is, again, unless we end up learning at some point that all of these Jackie, that's actually a ghost or something. It's all, our interpretation remains that this is like Shana speaking to herself. You know, and so there's like, when Shana snaps awake in the, the van in the present day, it felt to me like what the episode was asking us to think about was if the first time Shauna saw that moth was above young Mel's head in that moment on the brink

of seeking rescue and thinking they were going to make this six-day track. I'm also not sure that Cody's rescue point pickup point is legit. And I'm sure we're all thinking that. Absolutely. It's like six days where I could potentially murder you and then go about my business. Shana doesn't know yet that she's going to find Mel in that lovely home in Richmond, Virginia. But what does it mean that that's the moment that this image recurs to her if it is adult Shana having that dream? Anytime Yellow Jackets, whether it's across people potentially or across timelines or, you know, we talked about this a lot with like Ben's Cabin, Alternate Life Paul hallucinations last year, almost like alternate realities where the show is moving. us across planes. Those are always interesting moments and why the show chooses to do that in a certain

moment. It always feels like it's meant to tell us something. Shawna's not the light, that's for sure. So is the it the light? Is the idea of rescue the light? I don't have a clear answer for you. The moth over Melissa's head, because like I do think that Shauna in the present day in the minivan is having this dream.

Yes, same. But I also am willing to consider that it's a dream that Shauna had in the wilderness as well. And so when she sees the moth over Melissa's head, that it's like what you're talking about, a gym membership you won't bother using, that equates to me scanning pieces of meat, body parts or otherwise, being in a supermarket. Friult to see the ear there. Just great the Jackie's ear. Were you looking at that saying I simply would not eat any of that? For me. What an episode for arm Pringles, though.

They're back. That's not a Pringle. Come on. I know. You really needed the frozen body to skit. Pringle shard. This was just a... That's like if it's a...

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Yeah. You texted me about this needle drop. Yeah. Anyway, here's Wonderwall. Tell me about the Oasis moment inside of this episode for you. What did this mean to you? First of all, what an Oasis moment we're living through right now? To me, Oasis and Wonderwall specifically, this is being a 90s kid.

I have a maybe hot take that they blew it. They didn't use this needle drop properly. I think the idea that this would be like the sort. song that you're, I loved hearing it. It was a thrill to hear. And we're on the, um, the brink of something that feels like a beautiful return. And so that kind of like headspace that you'd be in felt right. But I actually would have saved it for something genuinely more meaningful than this kind of like false start. I did enjoy pairing it with Mel and Jen talking about the fries into the milkshake into the quarter pounder, then washing it down with the spright.

These would be the exact conversations that I would be having. That's a fact. That is a fun fact. Yeah. Wonderwall, classic. Absolute fucking banger. So in season one, when eulogizing a yellow jacket named Rachel, Van says, quote, before we took off, I heard Rachel say that she was going to see Oasis at the Meadowlands next month. She was really excited.

Now she's never going to hear Wonderwall again. Honestly tragic. On the one hand, I agree with you because this felt like a fairly like muted moment inside of the episode. On the other hand, I understand a whole lot better than I understand the moths. Wonderwall, hearing Wonderwall means you get to, you're, you've gone back home. Yes, definitely. So we're playing Wonderwall. I'm kind of like, save it for when they actually go home, but maybe they'll play it again.

We can play it again. Let's run it back. Let's have Drive Chef play it when they get off the plane. Okay, so. Oh, man. And Kila, Akila has revision of the, you know, the pocket, the pocket of Gave Gass. Did. Comes up out of her poncho.

gives her a vision of the crops are dead. All our animals are dead. Once again, I'm sorry. Joseph in the Bible if you're literate or if you're me, Joseph in the amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat, a musical. And then Nat goes back to the fuselage and says goodbye to bed. And this actually devastated me.

So like Nat hears some spooky-uky sounds when she's in the fuselage. And like she has heard this, you know, we've encountered a moose there. Like she's encountered things in that fuselage before. but she says they're leaving, quote, whatever you are behind. And we know that when Natalie dies at the end of season two, the last fucking thing she sees is this goddamn plane. Yeah.

And she's like, I'm not, she's, Juliette Lewis is sitting on the plane as adult Natalie. Javi's right next to her. Sophie Thatcher, full blonde Sophie Thatcher is sitting on, on her left. And she's like, I'm not supposed to be here.

And young Nat, Sophie Thatcher says, quote, this is exactly where we belong. We've been here for years. Yep. Which was devastating in the moment. As we were like pissed and upset and whatever the season two finale,

but like that's a devastating, that's a good, devastating moment of genre television. We've been here for years. But to hear Nat to finally say, you don't get to have me. I'm leaving you behind inside of that plane. Yes. And for us to know that it never loosens

its grip on her. Right. Is tragic. Deeply. You know, that final, that final pre-death center aisle of the plain vision, but the other moments of the awakening and the processing of her Travis grief and everything, all of those, like, you know, it's in us. We brought it back moments and the confronting the inability to escape.

I thought getting this like Akila Nat sequence kind of back to back was interesting because we have like, you know, again, how is everybody responding? We have like, and have since the very beginning of season one, we can think of the flight of the bumblebee or any number of other examples. This like, it doesn't want us to leave idea that's been actively voiced and then also just ever present kind of in the air, much like potentially the cave guess. And so to see which characters actively embrace that, which characters more like passively feared and accept it, and then which characters like Nat are going to stand up and shout in the face and resist it, but then not be able to escape it, all of that is interesting. But the Keela's vision, first of all, when Lottie showed up, and of course Lys like, did you see something? And then we got to see the cute little healthy little live bunnies like jumping behind them. darling and then I was very worried.

But I couldn't, could you tell? Was it like, were the, was your interpretation that the crops just had died or like that there was like a blight? A blight. Yeah, a blight. So that was, that was my read as well. That was like, and then all the animals ate the diseased crops and they died, right? So that's what made me think of Joseph.

Yeah. So this like warning, not just, and what each person is seeing like for Nat, as you beautifully outlined this place, not just the broader place, but that specific chamber, all of these meaningful memories and moments, the euphoria of thinking that they had found food at last, the kind of fumbling, oh, our lives have changed, but we are still teenagers, like sexual, like false start an initial exploration with Travis, like all of that, right? For Akela, there's this like, okay, maybe I'm a profit, but also I'm like the tender, I'm the gardener, I have the crops, I'm raising, I'm raising the animals, I'm caring for us, I'm helping us sustain.

And this idea that not only would the people be in peril, but that, like, we have barely seen her this season without an animal cradled in her arms, right? So this, like, idea that if you leave, more broadly what awaits is doom, but also you are dooming this thing, like this, like, casting of the blame, it will be on you what will happen here if you do this thing felt like the message that she would either manifest the internal fear that's that's surfacing or the it the wilderness would send to her i kind of wish we'd seen something like this for like almost everyone fascinating do you think akila's plan was to put mortimer in her backpack like was mortimer coming with her where none of the animals

coming how many days since caught banthen how many days since a mortimer update just asking the questions I've been waiting longer. Okay. We already mentioned this so we get the Lottie, Shana, Ty, I'm staying moment. The rest of the camp, the vast majority wants to go. Yes. Also, Ty has an axe, but team I want to go has the gun and the crossbow. They have the weapons.

how is Shauna going to win this one? Can't wait to fucking find out. Right. But Shaana says they're not going in her very like snarly evil Shana voice that we've like, whatever. It's intriguing to me and by intriguing I mean deeply upsetting that Lottie, Shana and Thai will all survive the wilderness. They're like they're the ones who want to stay and they're all the ones who get to go home and live for a couple more decades. and a number of these girls who wind up staying will not make it out of the wilderness alive. Yeah.

Fucked up. Okay? Deeply. And then this like... Well, they blame themselves for that. I don't know. Look inward, Shana. I have no idea.

I think it's really interesting. We've talked about all this sort of like the reasons why, you know, Lottie's mental health, Thai sexuality. Sean not wanting to go back to being like a beta like she was with Jackie or I don't believe in betas by the way. I'm just using convenient language not going back to only fill it all the high achieving stuff. She's meant to do a drama with a gifted child, not going back to the Patriarch. I don't know. And I want to get back to that.

I think when we talk about some of the more adult Shauna stuff. But I really liked this observation I saw on the subreddit where someone was going circling back to season two. If Shawna is the reason or a reason that they don't get to leave in this moment, if they stay for another winter because of the shit that Shauna is pulling right here. Yeah. Because if it were me and I were Nat with a gun, I would have simply shot Shauna in that moment, to be honest with you. Not somewhere vital.

Oh, okay. You know, a flesh wound? A knee or something like that. And I'll be like, stay. Enjoy your stay. I'm going. Knee injuries heal very quickly on this show. Yeah, Mari's fine.

Yeah, she's doing great. If Shauna is the reason or a reason, a myriad of reasons, a very reason you can point to why they stayed. Does this re-contextualize the end of season two when Shauna drives draws the queen of hearts? and the girls just sort of like immediately go into their sort of like wilderness hunt positions in a way that my initial read of that because I would say end of season two we were not thinking of Shawna as the villain of the show ending of season three I'm not sure that I can make that assumption so if the girls are like we've been waiting for this one shana draws the queen of hearts and they're like finally we get to hunt shana who did this

shit to us is like responsible for us missing out on this big rescue moment. Is that something that is interesting to you? Or, I know it still doesn't square with like some of the things that you pointed out in season one of like Ty and Shauna's closeness or, you know, a few other things. Like it doesn't seem like even, I actually think what's most confusing to me reading out of season one is Nat and Shauna. Like, why aren't Nat and Shauna more depicted as more at odds? it's not being irritated with Misty,

but it's not Nat at war with Shawna in a way that I would expect, given what we're seeing right now. Right. There's months to go. We don't know what's going to happen, but like... Maybe we'll eventually learn

that Nat poorly buried Adam Martin's body parts on purpose to get her long-awaited revenge on Shana. No, I mean, it's a great point. It's a really good question. Like, I think I'm interested... I am interested to see at the start, I presume, of next episode. what do Ty and Lottie say to that?

Because they've made the choice that they think is right for them, but seemed content to let everybody else leave. Now, I'm sure Ty, obviously Ty one-on-one with Van made her pitch, but like if the next episode... The way that Ty was holding that axe was like slightly medicine to me.

Yeah, but so like if at the beginning of the next episode, Ty is like, yeah, stay, you can't go either. Then on the one hand, it sort of cements their relationship. because they're in a similar position, but it makes maybe Ty being ready to hunt down Shauna a little more confusing. But if Ty is like, you know what, this is right for us. It's not right for them. Let them go do their thing. Then that's kind of illuminating in a different way.

Ultimately, like you said, we have a lot of time left to go in the wilderness, though albeit potentially not on the show. Worrying. Traveling. So, you know, we'll see. But yeah, like I think also what. So what Shauna said to Mel in the present timeline of this episode about like, actually, it's genius. Like, we could make all the vows and packs we want. But the only way to really ensure that everybody keeps our secrets is to kill all the rest.

And obviously, Sean is just talking about herself and yet again trying to like justify her own behavior and sanction the thing that she is about to do, which is try to kill this person and presumably then try to kill other people. maybe other characters have their version of that too, where it's like, boy, Shauna just like left a body. That was a really reckless thing that endangered our lives. Pulled the card? Sure. Why not? I remain sort of confounded by that response, but I think, you know, that larger, like, the wilderness never let go of any of them.

They were there all along to go back to that kind of final moment of Nat's life theme. That remains really interesting to me. who is like just kind of quickly ready to kill somebody and who isn't is like a little bit of a leaf on the wind with the show I think. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's right.

Okay. That takes us into the adult timeline. I feel like we've already gone through this dream pretty well. The only thing I want to add is the two boxes of Cocoa that are here. Yeah. Are they a Jackie Death Dream reference or are they a Mari reference? or are they both? I like Mari so much and I'm very concerned about her.

I'm so much of what a fucking twist. I remain like really into these moments with Shana and Snackie. Ella Prunala has been so great this season. Every visit, great. A gift always when Ella is here. And I just, I do still really like, you know, thinking back to like, what did Shauna say at Jackie's eulogy? You know, I don't know where you end and I begin. And this idea of like, as we,

we've talked about before, her own self, Shawna's own self-loving, like manifesting in the form of simultaneously, like her best friend, someone who she, in some ways wanted to be in, in other ways,

deeply resented and actually hated, is just a consistently rich text, and it does make sense to be that Shawna would, like, continue to see Jackie all this time later in the guilt. And that this specific thing, like,

what did we heard it in the freezer in episode four? Like, after I died, did you finally turn into the person? that you always wanted to be. Like that that is actually the thing that Jackie's ghost is tormenting Shauna about boring life.

This was the thing. This was the great thing that you amounted to. And obviously, it could be a wonderful life. Smoking chronic in your daughter's room. Honestly, I have some notes on what Shana does in Callie's room, as you know. But plenty of other things about that life could be great.

But that's not the life Shana wanted. And it is a life that she deeply resents. And that is very present. in her conversations with Mel. I just want to shout out our listener, Paul, who wrote in, who is going to play Adult Moth. Absolutely incredible email. Instant Hall of Famer.

Unbelievable. Do you want to cast Adult Moth? Who's playing Adult Moth? This is genuinely hysterical email. I'm going to go with Gabby Hoffman. Gabby Hoffman as Adult Moth. Okay. So, Shana, Knife Up Her Sleeve, Totally Normal, breaks into Melissa.

A. K. Kelly and Alex's house. This is such a fuck you to Mel. Like, I bought this hunting knife, but I won't bring it in a sheath. You're the sheath person. I'm going to put it in my fucking sleeve. Brutal. We've talked about this already.

I mean, I do like that Melissa immediately knows that Sean is there. Yeah. We talked about the Apple Convo. We get checkoffs. Your gas tank is empty. Line as Alex and the kid are on the way out the door. Yes. And we've talked about the hat, but I do want to read this.

There's a human we got from Lindsay, who says, Sorry, I wish I could be one of those people to write in something super insightful, but actually I'm one of those people who is just writing in to discuss how delightful it is that the Twitter slash X ship name for Shauna and Melissa is Shawna Hat, especially given the Hillary Swank intro this most recent episode. Great stuff. Shishashana and the Hat. That is what we are dealing with here.

It is It's tough stuff for us We're gonna I want to do all We cut back and forth to this I kind of want to do it all together So we're gonna come back to that Let's just knock out

The Missy Thai van stuff Because I think it is Missy continues to be for me The best part of the entire season Not close Christina Ricci Yeah The van and tie stuff continues to me

To be quite weak Agreed But Missy's saying Hi Sean I'm just calling to say Fuck you actually Actually, I'm devastated we can't do clips on the show right now because I would like to hear it right now. So good.

And then Ty goes to palliative care to murder someone. Yes. Chickens out, but he flatlines anyway. Then she says, does that, did that count? Stonishing stuff. Genuinely great. And then we get the double tie, the other one and nice tie sort of locked out of Van's room. Yes.

What do you make of us seeing this sort of physical manifestation of the split, which is not something we usually see? Yeah, I was trying to like think back to even glimpses of something similar. And there's like at the hospital early in season two after the car accident, you know, the kind of separate facial movements and expressions in the mirror at the hospital. But this was a degree beyond that of. I have walked through this door. I have moved into a space of proximity, of love, of care, of action that you cannot inhabit, that felt distinct. And then there was just like, you know, the, you never did believe, like on the, never, because we've been tracking all season and asking, like, when have we been with Ty and when have we been with the other one? And so, like, you know, thinking across timelines.

And obviously, as we already discussed, we have a very prominent. Oh, the other one is here a moment in the youngster timeline. You know, this idea of like the other one always activating in a moment of violence or protection and then the way that those two things become confused for a person, like what it means to love and is to do what is necessary, even if it means smothering this stranger or the best. Hello. So as Taisa's defense attorney. Yes, please.

Yeah. In the trial over Biscuit's life, you're saying Taisa innocent because only the other one would murder a dog because Ticea never even believed. Taisa would never make an altar of any kind. She wouldn't even light a candle. It's only the other one who does shit like that. I still don't think either of them should be able to have Biscuit on their lock screen. Is that your case? Okay.

in Cali at the jolly hitcher. Okay. A music version of the girl from Epanema is playing. I love the girl from Euponema. I'm music or otherwise. I'm always down for it. We had a couple interaction with the Jol's, right? This is where we get the FurnitureFam.net moment that you cited earlier. This idea that like Jeff is the kind of guy who gets waved over, not the kind of guy who does the waving. And when Misty calls Jeff and he's like, what? Shawna done now, his sort of like anger and sorrow when he says that.

Freaky little four-eyed mushroom, great stuff for Misty, and then the affirmation pillow-based meltdown. But here's where things get really interesting. Callie and Jeff decided in the room that, by the way, the same room that Shana and Adam had back in season 1, 2106, is the room where they're staying in now. That is dark. Shana is demented. Okay. Kelly and Jeff are like, oh, you think no one's, I think, you think no one's, why do you think no one's after? Okay.

Kelly gives some real dicey my two things. Two things are blaring in this scene. Yeah. The prominent scratches on Jeff's hand, which we've mentioned before, but get much more prominent play as he's sort of like holding him over his face, right? Did you notice the scratches on my hand? So he has reason to believe that no one's after Shana. And then Callie's like, I have reasons to, don't worry about my reasons to believe. Right.

Now, does that have to do with the fucking note that Melissa points out was with the tape that we have never seen a line of that perhaps Callie has? Or where are you on Jeff did a murder and it was Lottie and where are you and Callie did a murder and it was Lottie? Where are you? I don't want either of them to have done a murder or to have done a murder or to have been. done a kill. Yeah. I, um, I don't know. There's a part of me that like has really liked the, the fucked up like Sedeke family that kills together, stays together kind of vibe. Yeah. Across the seasons and this like embrace of the darkness in each other. And you could see how that would then like heighten the darkness inside of themselves. The whole fucking show starts

with Jeff using his wife's secret to journals containing her deepest, darkest secrets to blackmail her friends and teammates to try to get money from them and not telling her about that.

So like, there is certainly like enough of a foundation to build on to lead Jeff or Callie to have wound up in a circumstance where maybe something then tragic happened. I don't know if either of them setting out to kill Lottie would ever track for me.

So, like, I was looking back at the scenes with the envelope in terms of the note and Mel being like, it was all in the note. First of all, here's a note for Mel. Don't leave all of it in a note. That's insane. What the fuck? Like, you can't follow that in a note. Also, if we're to believe her, which I don't really. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But if we're to believe her, don't leave the tape at all. Right. Yeah. I'm interested to hear where you are on like Mel suspicion watch. But, you know, I think like, okay, so Callie takes the tape out of the envelope. We don't see a note. Then Jeff kind of comes into the kitchen and Callie's like startled. She puts the envelope down by her side. The next episode, there was that weird scene. At the time we talked about it and we're like, why are you just like opening the door to Callie's bedroom? Very odd. Revisiting. that because I was like, do we see the note? Because Callie has the tape in her hand and then she puts it in the desk drawer. Now I'm wondering if the reason that that scene happened in that way was so that Lottie would know that something was there. Did Lottie go back in and get the note?

And then did Callie have to seek the note out from her? Though I have like a sequencing question on this that I don't quite know how to reconcile where like, first of all, just does Lottie have the note is interesting to me kind of period. How to bring Callie into it. it. I think I'm having a, like, when Callie has to like, oh, fuck, I should have given you this moment, that's after Lottie has already died. And she like goes and opens the drawer. She's like, fuck, fuck, where is it? And it did seem like it was maybe not exactly where she thought it would be, which again, kind of heightened my suspicion that maybe someone had been in that drawer and taken the note. So I'm on this Lottie had the note or did Lottie have the note corner and will that

tie into what happens? Um, over. Overall, where are you on whether it's what Jeff and Callie are voicing here, what Mel is voicing, what we have speculated about? Like, is someone trying to get Shana or not? What do you think? Oh, that's a different question. Did Callie kill or did Jeff kill Lottie? Yeah. Feels in the cards for me. Okay. Which one are you putting your money on? Callie, because I kind of like this idea that like the dark.

darkness inside of Shauna. Yes. Is inside of Callie or whatever. That's so sad. Like what's the message of the show? I don't know. That's so dark. God is sad?

Here's my deal. Did someone cut the brakes? Did someone lock the freezer door? This, that, or the other thing. On the one hand, given the, there's a, there's a reasonable, a simple, reasonable explanation for everything. I'm often looking for that route in the show. Yeah.

On the other hand. Yeah. The way Melissa is turning the gaslight tables and turning the gaslight all the way up to 11 on Shauna being like, maybe you're just crazy. And then for Jeff to also say, my wife is a fucking crazy person. In a way, I did not get mad at him for. Yeah. because then he says, haven't you ever fallen in love with an unhage woman or is every woman you've ever been with been fucking boring. Immediate redemption art from Jeff.

But like, if Jeff's like, Sean is crazy, Cal's like, is mom crazy and Lys is like, you're crazy? That's the moment I, this is my weakness in the world. I'm like, stop. Okay? First of all, no. And now I'm like, asked me last week, I'd have been like, Sean has lost the plot. Now I'm like, too many people are calling her crazy. This is where I am too.

taking her seriously enough. And so has Shana made incorrect claims in the past about Adam, about other things? It seems so. I feel like she's not wrong about Melissa in one way or another because there's just too many people being like, ooh, Shauna, I've lost it. Oh, no. I agree. The way that Melissa reads Shana, I think is quite accurate.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And we're going to get to that in a second. Yes, I'm with you because, like, I think on the one hand, it feels very poetic and tragic for Shauna to just keep making the same mistake. Like, this would be just another version of what she did with Adam, right? This suspicion and paranoia and fear getting the best of her and her courting and inciting a bad outcome that actually wasn't there otherwise.

Yeah. That is interesting. perhaps in this current way at the expense, actually, if the thing she always uses her excuse to do whatever she needed to do, which is her family. That would be very poignant. I'm with you, though, that like the volume of people voicing it makes me more inclined to think.

Also, I just am like, I'm sorry, but like kids die, Henry, they die all the time. Freezer doors close. Shawna, they close all the time. I'm like, someone came in that bad. and turned off the lights and like, yeah, left that cell phone. Left that phone. Yeah.

That happened. Yeah. And we also saw like someone watching her. I mean, we know that that was Mel for part of it. But like, no. I mean, she's not, her conclusion may not be entirely correct. But I don't think nothing is going on. And I definitely don't believe that Melissa's like, I just want a normal boring life and I don't want anything to do with you guys.

because why would you leave the tape in that case? Okay, so anything else you want to say about Callie and Jeff before we move into the final sort of like Sean and Melissa sequence? Jeff says I'm the reason most people like anything I'm affable and that I felt like was a direct read of us, the audience back home. And I felt embarrassed by it. Anytime that you and I are like, Walter and Jeff are our favorite parts of the show about complicated women, I felt read to filth by that. Yeah, I thought this was interesting to watch Callie in that final post. It's all in the cloud. Checkout scene.

Callie, to watch Jeff pitch the Joles one more time. Callie's face watching Jeff basically embarrass her mother, but then also praise her was just so fascinating to me. She was like, Dad, go get it. You finally stood up for yourself, but you did it while saying that mom is like, nuts. So I felt really bad for Shawna in a way I liked and appreciated it. It was like a return of a level of like

oh, a pang in my heart for her that I really needed. And then I did have the same experience you did when Jeff was like, you know, have you never, have all the, every woman you've ever been with been fucking boring. I was like, okay, he found a way to like toast her and praise her and celebrate the darkness. And that felt crucial because otherwise I was like, dude. But I was also

proud of Jeff. I was proud of him for standing up for himself because like when we watch that dinner meeting, we're like, this is terrible. Like she's just show some care for the person in your life. The Callie facial expression is really interesting to me as well because like it almost seemed to me like she was smirking a little bit. And like I don't think that Callie has been actively working against Shauna. But in this moment, she wants her dad to be on her side, which is like mom's lost it. Yeah. We don't need to do what mom says.

Right. So to watch Jeff, who we really like. Affable. Like, does he have a spine here a bit? But isn't he just doing exactly what Callie wants to? Hasn't he just gone from doing what Shauna tells him to do to doing what Callie tells him to do? Yeah.

And I don't mean to be like, manosphere about this or whatever. Like, that's fine. But I'm just sort of like, Jeff's just sort of like buffeted on the wind of like, like, you know, these two much stronger personalities that are around him, it seems like, to me. Yep. Speaking of strong personalities in a room, we go now to Tuesday, Oscar winner, Hillary Swank, and Melanie Linsky. Okay, the hat is stupid. And I have a lot of other issues.

I think Hillary Swank is great. I thought she was great in this role. I thought she was like a really good, like could really hold it down in a scene with Melanie which is not always easy for people to do, I think. I also hate this. The implication that Melissa faked her own suicide after being rescued from the wilderness and the cops asked no questions about the lack of a body because she left a note. Made absolutely no sense. Zero sense. And citizen detective Misty Quigley didn't figure this one out.

Right. I want to believe in Misty. And I do. And there's so many times that she's ahead of everyone. But she didn't know about Lottie and the cults. And she didn't, you know, like, there's just like a lot of stuff that Misty did not actually. She's like, I've got surveillance on everyone. Yeah. But she's missing a lot of tricks here. And that actually don't like that because it seems like it feels like to me, the show's like we just want to add this other person or we just want to add this other survivor. We just want to add this other story.

I totally agree. When I think if we were really presenting Misty the way that we have been, she would have been aware of all. of this stuff. I don't think it hurts the story for her to know that Melissa's alive and not tell anyone. Well, maybe it does. Anyway, I don't need to examine that right now. Okay. Yeah, I'm with you here. Also, like, Jessica Roberts didn't dig up anything to put in a folder on this. That chick sucked at her job. Okay. Can I ask you another kind of big picture question? Do you care enough about the Shawna Mel relationship in the past for like this much of the present storyline to hinge on Mel's return. I don't think we're supposed to care about their relationship.

I think we're supposed to care about what it says about Shawna as like a leader slash user of people. Yeah. But I don't think I'm supposed to be emotionally invested in their relationship. No, not emotionally invested, but I feel like we needed a couple more scenes where we saw them interact. privately for this to like... I think what we really needed was like two more Melissa's scenes in season two where she had a personality. Yes.

And not just this like... Yep. Let's conjure something out of nothing in season three. Yeah. Because it exacerbates that thing. You're citing of like, well, the person we could do this with is just the person we never thought about before. So, tough.

Someone sent me a meme that's... I'm just going to read out. Love to read memes on a podcast. Is this good podcasting question mark? You think in her suicide note instead of writing Melissa, she drew a hat to make them know what was her? Is that anything? Melissa signed her suicide note, her fake suicide note,

just with a hat, a little drawing of a hat. How is she going to make sure that we understand that it's backwards facing? That's the important question. Boy. When I was living in San Francisco in my early 20s, and a friend of ours was sort of like figuring out, let's say figuring out her sexuality. And she was like dating a guy friend of ours,

but like we were pretty sure she was gay. And she figured it out for herself. You know, we're in her young 20s. We're all figuring out that she was gay. Or just anyone, whatever. At one point we were sort of trying to like figure out what the deal was or whatever. She had this group of friends who all wore baseball hats, like flat brim, like whatever. And my friend, Laura was like, she's friends with all those hats.

She said she was just like, she's friends with all those hats. And so I was just thinking about Melissa and her hat. Here's the line that is just one of the best things I've ever seen on television, which is Shauna asking, are you still in love with me? Incredible woman. Like, never was? Just needed to get laid in the wilderness. That was, yeah, it's an incredible woman, incredible line.

Great response from Hillary Swank in that scene. So embarrassed for you, Shana. Really tough. Unless it takes the fucking hat off, hopefully to never go back on her head again. Hillary Swank fluffs her hair out as if to say, good, that's over with. I miss the hat, personally. I hope it returns. She says that Nats' death spooked her.

My question, that's fair. Sure. My question is, how does she know the details of what happened on the compound? Or she's like, you guys are back at it, you're back into rituals, you're doing all this shit again. How does she know what was going on? So I have these questions as well. And it is part of what I think keeps Mel in a firm position of active suspicion. Because that indicates a.

Like, you know, there are a lot of like interesting little details. Even just like marrying the daughter of a woman, we killed. When Shauna says it that way, we killed. There's like a like an active quality to that, right? Hannah didn't just die. We killed pit girl. Are you one Hannah Pitt girl what? I mean, you put it in my mind with like the hair when the hair came down and I'm like it feels like a lock almost.

But I hope we've got enough time for multiple pit people at this point. The. I forgot about the tape. You know, I just didn't. Danny kind of forgot about the Iron Fleet. And Mel kind of forgot about the tape. Of them all screaming and then someone dying. And then the mother of her current wife recording a final message to her long-lost kid,

that's not frankly believable. That's just not believable. So then I'm like, okay, was Mel, is Mel like a solo agent who was somehow keeping tabs or looking into them? Or is this connected? Because we still have this question of like what happened with Lottie, right? As we were just talking about like, did Mel learn this from Lottie somehow? I don't know that I have like a strong answer or theory.

but like I agree with you that that's just a it points it's either bad storytelling or it points to a level of involvement and surveillance from Mel that is incongruous with her stated desire to be totally separate from all of us yeah yeah okay um we'll we'll stay tuned how did Melissa know all of this is it just shoddy writing or is it something more I listened to Kat pointed out, so Melissa mentions Barbara, her life coach slash advisor, who was not licensed. And Kat pointed out that in Virginia, quote, intuitive person is not covered by Dr. Patient confidentiality. So anything that Melissa might have told her Barbara can tell the authorities. And so she kind of likes this idea that Shauna is going to assume that Barbara would spill the beans and come after her, even if Barbara has no intention to do so.

Yeah. Barbara on Deathwatch the second her name was invoked. Yeah. Instantly. Yeah. Cat wrote, and now Shauna knows about another potential weak link, a stranger who may have been led in on the secret and has to be disposed of, a parallel to the Froggers in a way, a parallel to Adam for sure,

basically RIP and advanced Barbara. So. Yes. we can say goodbye to another Barb on TV, definitely. I mean, Shawna's an active moment of like even people, she has a deep connection to you saying you're a risk to me. You hate a Barb. I hate a Barb.

Okay, so you already flagged this line that Shauna has where she's like, the only way to be perfectly safe is to be the last one standing. Yes. I feel like this is the premise of season four of Yellow Jackets. I feel like it's an all-out yellow jacket hunt of like every yellow jacket for themselves sort of thing. Yeah.

It reminded me a lot of one of the most important works of storytelling and literature, which is the Highlander franchise, in which I don't know if you know the rules of the Highlander franchise, but there can be only one. And these immortals go around the world, beheading each other because in the world there can only be one immortal and they have to kill all the other immortal. So if the Yellow Jackets want to start beheading each other,

that sounds great to me. But yeah, if it's Van v. Thai, v. Misty, v. Shawna, v. Melissa, you know, and how far does Shauna take this? Like, is it all the yellow jackets or is Jeff in danger because of what he knows? It's Callie in danger because of what she knows. You know, like how far will we go to bury this? I mean, we already, as we discussed last week, like, when do you hit the moment where you're beyond redemption? But that would certainly be an irredeemable thing. but we had that threat, like that threatening moment between Shawna and Callie that I do think at least makes it reasonable for us to discuss that possibility, certainly.

Shauna's outrage at Melissa claiming she has a happy, normal, boring life. She's basically like, you don't get to have that. First of all, you're living a lie, which is outrageous from Shauna, given all the lies that she has orchestrated. around herself, right? Though I did think, honestly, that this was, like, the one time where I was like, Shauna's, it's outrageous, but also it's, she's right, this is fucking weird to marry the daughter of a person. But, like, why are we chasing normalcy when we, like, eight people in the woods?

You know what I mean? Like, so, okay. Well, that was Lottie's whole point. So the thing that I think, Sunshine Hattie, what did you think of Shana being like? It was actually more of a intentional community. It made me think of the lasting impact of Bruce the gut. Yeah. Nice.

Sweet Bruce. The problem for Shawna is that if Melissa is actually happy with this weird little life that she's crafted for herself as Kelly. Kelly. Then Shauna is wrong that they can't have a normal life post woods. In the journal at the beginning of the season, she said, So they told themselves stupid fairy tales and pretended they were brave and strong because the reality was that even if rescue came, they could never go home again because of what they'd done because of what they become. That's the truth. And hearing anything else makes me want to just fucking, you know, cut off. So like, Shauna being like, how dare you say you have a normal life? If that's true, then everything I, then me saying at the end of this episode, we're not going home. Yeah.

is based on a lie, right? Like my firm belief that you can't go home again. Yes. Or the way in which my family is falling apart is my fault. And not just like because of, you know, this thing that happened in the woods. None of us are allowed to be happy if I'm not allowed to be happy. Yeah. If I'm not allowed to be normal.

And I think also this is where like it feels so purposeful that this is the thing we keep seeing Jackie manifest to go. and poke Shauna about it. It's like there's a version of this where Shauna says, okay, I didn't think I could go home, but I did. And it wasn't what I thought. Yeah. It wasn't brown. And it wasn't, you know, all of these futures that I had imagined when I was young, but I have a husband, I have a kid, I have a family I love. It wasn't the life I envisioned, but it's a life. And it's so actively not the life that Shauna wants. That like, it's galling to her that it could be the life

anybody else would want either. And I think if you go back to season one watching her like, she watching like Jeopardy or whatever, like knowing the answers, just feeling like she's better than everyone else and better than this life that she has found herself in. Melissa's saying,

who's lying now about Callie knowing everything about Shana and loving her anyway? that's a million dollar baby uppercut TKO is that how we talk about boxing Mallory great work oh man um boom boom bob like just amazing stuff from a knockout punch for sure that was great you create your own problems you stir the fucking pot just to feel alive even before the plane crash weren't you fucking your best friend's boyfriend binder back you this is so good you stew and you seeth that is such a good encapsulation of Melanie Linsky's performance and Saffina Lise's.

You stew and you see then you make it everyone else's problem because you hate to be alone. You hate yourself and you want everyone else to feel just as miserable as you are. And then it should be noted in terms of like where are we unbelieving Melissa. Yeah. She does go for Shauna's knife. Yes. The old waterglass church. Yeah.

The waterglass gambit. She does go for Sean's knife. Yeah. Sean is too fast fucks up her arm gets her down to the floor and then bites

disgusting I've seen it be referred to as a bicep I think it's more of a tricep bite anyway I thought it was the front bicep you thought it was front bicep a little chunk of bicep

a bicep bite disgusting coming soon to Applebee's she left that in her mouth longer than she needed to She was taste in that human flesh. Eat it. Eat it.

Eat it. Better or worse than telling Mari to eat the spitty dirt to do? Certainly worse. This is not much of a contest. We're going to pull you. So you were talking about control earlier. So this is that again, right? Shauna, this is the most active method of control possible.

I am pinning you down. I am telling you that your life and your version of happiness is not real. I am telling you that you have done this thing to me. I am tearing pieces of your body away from you and telling you what to do with them. But it's also, of course, seeking to drag a reminder, right? The most visceral reminder possible. Literally. Literally of the thing that they shared together and that they did together.

And that Mel is not, from Shawna's perspective, better than her. Like you did this, we did this, you're going to do it again and I'm going to make you. I am going to drag you back. Forget flocking to the light. I'm going to drag you back down into that deep, dark hole where I still am. Get in the pit. Get in the pit. The metaphorical pit.

This was disgusting. An absolutely iconic moment from this show. Yeah. Oh, yeah. As much as I hated the hat, I will forever love and think about Melanie Lynch's with like a piece of flesh in her mouth. So gross. A piece of arm smeared in blood.

Because Melissa got her good in the nose, like posthally broke her nose. Oh yeah. She's just got blood, you know, real lotty look down her face. Yeah. Okay, we had asked, okay, let's, okay, I'm going to move this thing into Theory Corner. Let's do a quick Theory Corner before we go. Best needle drop before we go to Theory Corner. It's Wonderwell for you?

I mean, it has to be just because I love that. that song so much, but I do actually think the way All Right was deployed in the episode was better. I agree. It's super grass for me. I loved that. Okay. Shawna Callie and the DNA, we got actually a couple emails from people who work in the world of forensics and genetics answering our questions about. If Walter is saying it's Shauna's DNA under the nails, could it be Callie's DNA instead? Right. Laura sent us a long email with a lot of specifics and this is her summation. Laura says if we're meant to believe that modern forensic methods were employed and that reference to a quote match means that the precise individual who contributed the fingernail DNA sample has been identified, then I don't think the show can get away with saying it's actually Callie's DNA.

But this show has gotten away with some hand waving the past. So who knows? Science. So basically we have a lot of people that are like science says no. Right. Okay. But we're not going to hold yellow jackets to that. So, okay. Got it.

So that's one thing. Interesting. I feel like, well, I trust Walter and Misty to keep exploring. By the way, if you're, if you're, this was probably what season four or possibly what season four could be. It is correct. Highlander? My money is on fucking Misty and Walter being the ones who make it out alive.

And what a thrill that would be. Yes. Walter, Misty last person standing. Yeah. With Walter by her side. Spinoff. For going, going from being the one on the outside of the whole group to being the lone victor at the end. But with her puzzle.

It can't be Shauna. It's either everyone dies. Yeah. It's either everyone dies or it's Misty. It can't be Shauna. I don't think you can be Thai. And I have no money on Melissa. And Van does not seem to be doing well.

So. I mean, Van is just like basically already gone. Like, it's just a kind of. essence in the episode, more than an active character in the present timeline. Okay, Walter and Misty, we remain invested and we remain eager for Walter to get that TRT up. What are we calling their spin-off? Just citizens detectives? Yeah, why fuck with something that works?

Yeah. I love it. Or like, yellow jackets investigations or something like, you know, like they name their private detective company. after the yellow jackets or something like that. So then you can have the IP and the name. Smart. You know, for branding reasons. Okay.

So, seasons ago, when describing what the premise of the show was, the showrunner said something about, like, there was some quote about, like, dueling tribes of survivors. Yes. Is this what we're about to see? Will the division the camp mean there are separate rescue missions? will all of them be rescued at once? And we've seen them be rescued. And we think we know that there are eight of them, Oceanic eight, very lost.

And that Melissa has to be the last one because Melissa came back with them. So that has to be the last one unless they decide there are more, unless Jen like hikes it out, Aquila, you know, survives somehow. Like are there going to be separate rescue missions? Are we going to see, is it the trio versus everyone else?

Or are the trio going to be able to recruit other people to their side. In season one, Ty tells Shana, we wouldn't be here without her, meaning Nat. Right.

So is it Nat that gets him rescued? Does she go off solo? She's like, fine, none of you will come. I will go with a small faction. Like, where are you on like where everyone is going to be? Because what we know we have to see

is someone go into a pit and the antler queen in her court, including Misty, eating said pit girl. in the dead of winter. That all still has to happen. Right. Yeah.

The eagle-eyed people on the subreddit have pointed out that there are fewer people in that fire sequence than are left, still left. Right. You know, I think it's, you know, like eight or not, you know, something like that. So, like, is, yeah, are a faction of them going to split off? Are we going to kill a bunch of people all at once? Like, what are we doing? Do you think? Are we, are we, is the reason that Nat is in a different plane when she dies?

We were doing the full lost and they're going back in a different plane. No, I'm kidding. That's a joke. And a spoiler. But no, like when, you know, when Lottie made her very locky in speech and then Shauna and Ty both decided to stay, I was like, whoa, this is just exactly what we talked about last week. Like, it's the lost factions and we have our split. And there are groups of people who believe that a different path forward.

it is correct. And then I immediately was like, oh, is that not happening right away because Shauna's going to make them all stay? But I don't know why, I don't believe that Shauna would have that power. Yeah. How can she make them stay?

I don't, I don't think she can. Right. She doesn't even have the weapons. Yeah. She has nothing. And ruling by fear, there's just a limit. And if the,

the thing that we hear a number of characters, including like Van, you know, voice in this episode is like, well, Travis, like that, it's rescue, rescue Trump's all. I don't think they would be cowed by that intimidation tactic. So is there a moment where they stay and then they break away? I don't know.

I feel like the moment has come for a split definitively. I'm hoping for it. That doesn't mean to me, though, that we don't then have a coming back together. So that's sort of what I think is most likely. Factions, to be clear. Unlost. Factions were forever swapping and re-blending and remixing and stuff like that on the island. Okay. Yeah.

Alliance has changed on Survivor. Who's to say? Okay. Speaking of, before we go, Mallor and I just want to endorse. Oh, my God. The season of Survivor because we both actively wept through the latest episode of Survivor. Shattered. You told me that?

I was like, well, that won't happen to me. And then it did. It's the end. I was like, you were like, I was soft. And I was like, when Mallory sobs, I might shed a tear or two. And I was like, sobbing. I have never been so deeply moved by something I have seen on Survivor as I was by it's not even close.

It was just such an, I won't get into the specifics, enjoy it for yourself if you haven't. Such an incredible display of humanity. So beautiful. Really, really, really, really. incredible. Watch Survivor. Unbelievable. Watch Yellow Jackets. Watch Daredevil. Get ready for the last of us. Get ready for Andor. We are House of Our. Dude, we're like a month away from Thunderbolts. You hyped. I'm so excited for Thunderbolts. Yeah. I can't even tell you.

What was the number one name on the chair for Avengers Doom's Day that you were most excited to see? Oh. I'm just going to make Mallory catch up on all the content. She missed. Kirby. You know, my wife. Okay. Your wife, Vanessa Kirby. Okay, great. Love that for you. I was excited by a number of the chairs, and I have questions about some of the missing names, as do we all.

Okay. You can't fool me, Kevin. He can. They're all coming. Okay. This has been Yellow Jackets, season three, episode eight. I will not be back for episode nine, but I will be back for the finale.

So that's exciting. And I want to thank our Gino Rangu Pau for his work always on this feed. I want to thank John Richter, who set me up in this beautiful room that is not quite the void, slightly cheerier than the void where I've spent much of the last few weeks. And Carlos Churaboga, who is back on the Yellow Jackets Beat with us because Steve is in Portland, Oregon. So shout out to Carlos. We missed you. We're happy to have you here with us as we wrap up Yellow Jackets, Mallory Rubin.

I'll see you later this week, hopefully in person if you're, but only if you're feeling better. That's the goal. And I hope you're on the mend. Thank you, darling. Bye.