House of R - 'Yellowjackets' Season 3, Episode 4 Deep Dive

Episode Date: February 28, 2025

It's the trial of the century! Mal and Jo are here to dive into the latest episode of 'Yellowjackets' as they break down the latest theories and reveals that surround all of our intrepid girls. Hosts: Mallory Rubin and Joanna Robinson Senior Producer: Steve Ahlman Video Supervision: John Richter Social: Jomi Adeniran Addition Production Support: Arjuna Ramgopal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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wide and everyday low prices on 365 brand items. Enjoy the fresh flavors of spring, save at Whole Foods Market. This episode is brought to by Bor's Head. What if we told you the taste of deep fried turkey is now available at your local deli? Well, Boar's Head just did that. Bursting with flavor, perfectly seasoned with that indulgent taste that usually means pointing your whole day around it, presenting the Friars Turkey Breast only from Borough's Head. The backyard tradition now available behind the counter. Visit your local deli today. Discover the craftsmanship behind every bite Boershead committed to craft since 1905. I didn't burn down your cabin. Prove it. Yeah? How? With a high school mock trial at the end of the fucking world,

I'm in a jail with birds, Misty. Guess what? This is House of Ar. I'm Joyner Robinson. That's Mallory Rubin. I am waiting for my karma to go plate. Where is it? Snacky's back. Frozen as always. And we're here to solve a murder. Yeah.

It's Yellow Jackets. Yeah. Season 3, episode 4. And that's what we're here today to talk about. We are. Next week, however, it's Daredevil time, baby. Can't fucking wait. We already did our Daredevil sort of moments, superlatives pod.

We rewatched all of Daredevil. We talked about it. literally yesterday. That is up in the feed. So you can check that out. But next week, both the Midnight Boys, Poo, Poo, Poo! And House of R will have our reactions to the first two episodes of Daredevil Born Again on Disney Ploose. Oh, the Greenwald Ploose. Yeah. Yeah. I like it. I can't not. I know. It's infectious. Yeah, it is. He's a trendsetter. He is. He's always been a trailblazer and a trendsetter. We will not, however, have a Yellow Jackets episode next week. Yes. But we'll be coming back the following week to do a two-for, five and six together.

So we're not abandoning yellow jackets. But the reason we're not doing yellow jackets next week is we are doing a very special. It's awards weekend, this weekend, the Oscars show this weekend, and even more importantly, the Verses are next week. Everyone's actual favorite March award show. Correct. The Verses. Yeah. So it's House of Midnight Time.

That's right. all coming together to give our best of 2024 content that you definitely remember happened. For our random categories that we made up because we like certain things. It's the best. I'm really excited about my category. Your category is great. Your category is, I think, usually your category. Very unbranded.

So that's the Verses. That will be, you'll be able to listen and watch the Verses next week on the Ringervaverse YouTube channel. And also I just want to shout out that button mash is doing something that I don't know what But I bet it's great. It's split fiction and Joseph Fares. And I don't know what that is, but I support Ben Lindbergh always with my heart and my soul. What about your mind?

Yeah, he's got that too. Great. Full body support for Ben Lindberg. Okay. That's a lot of fun things going on. Sure is. How can folks you track of all that stuff, Mallory Rubin? It's simple.

Here's what I would do. Follow the pod. Okay. Follow House of R. Where? On Spotify. Okay. Where you can watch full.

video episodes of this podcast of House of R. You can also watch House of R on the Ringerverse YouTube channel, and you can listen to it anywhere you get your podcasts. How wonderful for you. Wonderful for you? How wonderful for you? That's a White Lotus reference. Follow the Prestige TV podcast as well.

Follow the Ringerverse. And then you'll get all of our pods. Fantastic. Here's what else you can do. You can follow the Ringervverse on the social media platform of your choosing. Where might that be that is for you and you alone to decide? We're out there waiting for you. And, of course, please send us your emails.

The inbox is always open. Hobbits and dragons. And dragons at gmail.com. Great. Back to you in the studio. Buzz, buzz, bitches. Yeah. Season three.

Episode four. 12-80 girls and one drunk Travis. Directed by Jennifer Morrison, who I don't know for her directing, but I know for her acting. She was an original cast member of House and the lead. of Once Upon a Time. You a househead? I have seen probably all of House, but I don't like rewatch it regularly. Yeah.

I've never seen House. Never seen House. Have you watched any of Once Upon a Time? The ABC. I want to say maybe the premiere? Yeah. And then a number of commercials for it that aired during or after football games. Cool.

So this is, so you never saw Sebastian Stan as the Mad Hatter? No. No, I didn't have the pleasure. Well, no, I did not have the pleasure. That's waiting for you someday. Fantastic. So Jennifer Morrison, directed this episode, written by Julia Bicknell and Terry Wesley. I have a question for you.

Actually, just starting with the title. 12-degree girls and one drunk, Travis, we are, of course, invoking 12-degree men. This is a trial episode. That all makes sense to me. Was it clear to you watching this episode that Travis was supposed to be drunk in any kind of meaningful fashion? It was not. Yeah. I will say that Travis is in, as we have been accustomed to finding him in emotional.

And contemplative state. He is spending the beginning portion of this episode in a hammock. That seems to be his spot. That I thought was, frankly, like, the response that that sparked in me was, are we sure crashing in the wilderness and being abandoned to your fate is that bad? Because that hammock life looked great. I thought that looked wonderful. A really, like, beautiful shade structure that both provide shade, but, like, you still feel like you're out in the air.

I mean, the thing you know about me is... The art of your dead brother who you ate all around you. bite of his raw heart, but did you really know him until you bedecked your hammock canopy? Do we ever really know each other until we've bedecked our hammock canopy? We don't. So, you know, I got vibes from Travis. He was moved to tears during the trial. He also shook his head a lot.

But I did not think that he was drunk. And in part, that's because we have seen Travis, of course, with the mushrooms and Lottie pushing him to consume the druggy tea in a very heightened. state of an altered mind. This just seemed like Travis was kind of hanging out. Also, I don't know that this is always the case. Maybe it's about how sloshily and sloppily anybody is consuming the homemade brew at a given point. But I am accustomed to seeing a lot of barrened.

A stained. Yeah. If they have been drinking the juice. And I did not clock that on Travis. I think it's just like a really weird. I would have just called it 12 Angry Girls. Or something. As you know, when they released this title, you were like, there will be a trial.

Yeah. It's a very clear reference, as you noted. And I was like, maybe this is an orgy. And alas, I was right. You were. You were indeed. Or 12-year-girls and Travis. Something like that.

You know what I mean? Had to get Travis in there somehow. I mean, I'm glad he's represented. He has like two lines this episode, I think. Yeah. One gallery curator, Travis. One hammock enthusiast, Travis. One on a hair journey, Travis.

What do you call? the artist in like a courtroom artist? Oh yeah, the sketch artist? There's an actual name for that that I do not know. It's not a stenographer. We have computers in front of us. We could Google it right now. But will we?

I'm going to do it. You have to vamp. Hold on. I loved the hammock. I thought it was great. Have you ever had a hammock in your yard? I think it's just courtroom artists. That was a fucking letdown.

What a fucking letdown. My parents had a hammock on their deck. Yeah. Yeah. Like a freestanding in like the metal. sort of like situation. And we're talking bare rope. Raw dogging it on the rope or any sort of like. I don't want to, I don't want to confirm or deny that I was raw dogging it on the rope as a child. But. So no like cushion on top or like a blanket. I think there was once upon a time like a like a green joint. I bet this is like a brook stone joint.

And I bet there was like a green sort of pad that like. I was literally thinking of a brookstone green striped pad. Yeah. My mom had on our hammock in the yard. But I think we like lost the pad and then it was. just rope. The thing about that, I mean, you grew up in California, though northern California. But in Maryland, let me tell you that any kind of outdoor cushion or fabric didn't hold up over the course of four seasons. Because you have weather. Weather. We had something on the East Coast called weather. We had like light fog in the morning. Yeah, you guys have clouds that then blew away. A marine layer? Is that what they call it? Google? I love the marine layer. I do too. Yeah. I really love Northern California, as you know. But then we would go to the Outer Banks.

And there was usually a hammock below the beach house. We're doing great. on our vow to each other and have a tight short pod today. But you know what? You told me you canceled your meeting. Talking to you about random shit, I'm thrilled to be here. And there was always a raw hammock, rope only. Yeah. And on the one hand, I felt more in touch with the world around me in that scenario than a padded hammock.

But it did, you know, it kind of, it would hurt sometimes. It's rough on the, on the gentle skin. There's the rope hammock. The rope hammock with like, it still has like the boards at the end of it. Yes, of course. But then there's like the fine mesh hammock that you have to sort of like scoop your way into. Yes. Yeah.

That like hugs you tightly, but maybe too tightly. You get like little waffle marks on your skin sometimes. Yeah. Okay. Yes. You do. Should we get a hammock for the studio? Have you ever done a pod from a hammock?

Should we try? That's 100% something we should do. What do you think? Should we pod from hammocks? I can't see a lot in general in the studio or in general because I've yet to go to the eye doctor. But I can see through the glare. John Richter smiling and enthusiastically giving us a thumbs up. And that's all we mean.

For hammock potting? For hammock potting? Yeah. Hammock potting in Studio C? Hammockpotting at gmail.com. Should we hammock pot in the void? That would be great. I think the void, you're more familiar with the void than I am, but I feel like we'd have

to hang the hammocks from the ceiling in the void because of space. I think it should be one hammock, a sort of like not lengthwise, but sort of like sitting in it side by side doing a pod. Great. Some cushions? Perhaps. Little cup holders made of made of rope for our various beverages.

Beverinos? Yeah. Yeah. No free ads. Okay. Let's get some Lucrois in there. What's on the menu this week? Oh, boy.

And yellow jackets? Yeah. Mm-hmm. Would you rather eat? Shana's meal prep tapioca. She seemed like she was having a great time. Much to Misty's dismay. I should also note.

So she was like stirring a vat. It wasn't actually even a vat. It was like a large mix. bowl of tapioca. And then her workspace was positively strewn in Brussels sprouts. Yes, I did. I noticed that with dismay. What is that, I mean, I love a Brussels sprout.

Me too. It's prepared properly. But what is, okay, I hate tapioca. We can talk about that later. Would you rather eat Shauna's meal prep tapioca, Vans shaky-handed Central Park pretzel? Yeah. Shana's frozen meat battering ram.

Obviously, no. Snacky. Certainly not because I, we're at me. I would not eat my friend. or Randy's assorted snacks and beves. Randy being sent off snacks and sodas. Yeah. In a state of despondence that he's not able to work the room as naturally as, you know, frankly a gifted orator like Jeff.

Yeah. I am going to go here with. So here's the thing. I want all your tapioca thoughts. But we know it's canon. I'm sorry, but it's Callie Cannon that Sean is a shitty cook. But anyone can make a tough. tapioca, can they not?

I don't know. Never tried. Because it seems disgusting. But don't you think at, well, I know I think tapioca is disgusting. But don't you think that. Is it a texture thing for you? Yes. I love it.

It's the worst of all the textures. You don't like a chewy. I don't like a chewy. I don't like a boba either. Oh, I like a boba. It's a, no. You don't want to have to chew your drink or chew your pudding. But what about like a banana pudding with a wafer?

Banana pudding is cooked fruit, dude. Okay. Well, you're right. I wouldn't think of it as cooked fruit, but I guess, yeah, it's, it's a, that's a no-go, no fly-zones for you. That's a deep in my marrow no. Oh, my God, but it's so creamy and delicious. That's not the thumbnail. I don't want it.

Steve, you have your episode art. You got it mere 15 minutes in. We're probably 30 minutes in. I don't know. That's not it. Okay, so no banana pudding. You don't like tapioca pudding. You don't like the texture of a boba.

I love that chew. Interesting. We won't be doing bobas in our hammock pod. Got it. I like Jello As I believe I've told you before Jello was my bat mitzvah theme I do know that very like

If I know one thing about you It's that Jello was your bot mitzah theme Haven't had it in a while but used to love Don't you think that this tapioca comes from a mix is my point Don't you think even fucking Shana Can mix some tapioca She was so distracted rocking out to Asa Base And frankly who among us?

Who among us? I bet the Aza Base just made the tapioca sludge better It's always a throw when Yellow Jackets sends us into the cocoon, the welcoming cocoon and embrace of nostalgia with a needle drop but that was a huge one for me. Oh my God.

Two absolute 1993 bangers. Holy shit. Because we got Linger, which is an all-timer. Just when they play Linger by the Cranberries on Yellow Jackets, I'm like, how are we in season three and we haven't gotten Linger already? Yeah, well, I guess there was just a lot of music back then.

But you're right. That is a surprising restraint on their part. I don't want the meat ram. Okay. Well. Well, I don't want Shana's frozen meat rams from Friday. And you've already said raw dogging rope. Honestly, I'd love a meat ram, but I don't want this meat ram.

Definitely don't want snacky. So I guess I'm considering either the Park Pretzel or Randy's Distorted Snacks and Beves. I love a soft pretzel. This is something you should know about me. I fucking love it. soft pretzel. If I'm at an airport Oh. And I see an anti-ans. I'm like, you know what?

I'm so stressed, will I make the flight? Do I have time for my pre-flight? Pre-flight? Pre-flight. Have fun with this headache, guys. Pre-flight ritual? I'm always, like, drawn to the idea of a soft pretzel, but then I think should I have that much butter before a flight? Maybe not. So then what it really makes me think, of course, is

New York. Mall food court. Soft pretzel in a mall food court It always feels marijuana I've never had I've had an Anteam But like Anteams is usually like Cinnamon Sugar pretzel No

That is an offering But the buttery salty one I like a classic New York City New York City pretzel That is not dripping in butter It is just deeply salty And soft and delicious

No delicious Too dry for the meat for the meat I'm so sorry The thing is, though, you're not. That's the thing. That's the real thing. So sorry. That, I think that kind of pretzel that's been sitting there overly baking.

No, can I just say that I've had. So delicious, but like. I won't accept this besmirching of a New York staple. I will say this. I've had some not great pretzels out of a pretzel card in New York, but I've had some of the best pretzels of a New York. Yes. Preciles of my life out of the pretzel car.

Agreed. But did these look like best pretzels of your life? Actually, yes, because they have quite a squish to them when she grasped them in her shaky too hard on the bottom, I can tell you. It was a considerable squish factor to the pretzels as she grasped them. You for sure need to pair that with a fountain soda or something.

A topocheco would be. Nice. New season of Shorzi, Topichikas are unbelievable. That's what they would say on Shorzzi. Have you, I know you've watched Shorzzi, but you haven't watched Letterkenny? No, but we're going to. We caught up on, we watched Binged Shorzzi like a month and a half. I guess over the holidays.

What month is it? It's almost the end of February, so two months ago. Letterkenny is forever altered and approved by the experience. Can't wait. I feel like some of the, some of the things I say, some of my vocal tics are now going to become apparent to you that I just stole the letter. Kenny. So, welcome to finding me on original. Okay, so you're going with pretzels. I'm going with Randy's assorted snacks and beves. I trust Randy to bring the snacks and beves. I mean, he's literally a professional. I will never say I trust Randy about anything. This guy had one job and it was to not

say anything about the blackmail to anyone and then he had a second job and it was to jack off into the condom. And he filled it with cheap motel lotion instead. I can't trust. I will never say the sentence out loud. I trust Randy. I trust Randy to bring me snacks and bevers. which is very different from I trust Randy in any of my criminal enterprises or to jack off into the space that I asked him to. Like, I don't. But if he's like, if I'm like, hey, will you go to the pantry? Yeah.

And bring back some salty snacks and like some cookies. Yeah. And a beverage, you know. And he's not, he didn't get shopping. Though maybe he did. Maybe he showed up. Maybe part of his day there was bringing the swift eats. You know, he is curious.

I just said he was a professional. That's why I said that. He opened the bag. We know, and this I thought was a violation, but he told Callie he looked in the bag when he brought her all of the goo and gore. You prefer when your bags are like stapled shut from the balloon is.

I don't think Brandy should be looking. Unless he was doing the shopping. Okay. You know what we haven't started to? Talking about the episode of television. Okay. Unreliable narrator hallucinator-relucinator dream counter. We got Misty in the tapioca scene.

You know, we got Misty. Oh, you're right. I forgot. imagining that she was stabbing Shana, which I actually did not like because this was one of our critiques occasionally of season two. Sometimes the dreams, hallucinations, unriable narrator, is very compelling inside of this universe and, like, heightens our question of what is real. Great.

But that distinction of like, does the character know versus do we know? Is it confusing for the sake of being confusing? It felt like they were trying to do legal. little fake out. Yeah. And I'm like, come on. Missy's not going to stab Sean in the kitchen, but also then it makes you wonder when did in that scene and that conversation, did we shift into this is playing out as a

dark fantasy in Misty's mind versus, and I think you can track it with the music. It's just that little stretch. But in general, I don't want to have to be thinking about those things when we're watching, right? I thought this was... When Ben is in a dream hallucination with his lost boyfriend. Yeah, that's interesting. That stuff's great. Yeah.

But Misty just like not stabbing Shawlop. When we're huffing cave gas. Exactly. Fine. Love. I mean, not as much as Lottie loved. She's like, take me there now. Now.

Guess what you don't do? Take Lottie to a cave where she can huff more things. She's desperate to recommune. I do not think this is a tremendously great episode of television. This is not my favorite. We got the trial. We got a bunch of like, I thought really the modern storyline. I thought, I thought, I thought, I thought,

Ben's speech and testimony was some of the best stuff we've seen on the show. Yes, I like that a lot. So that happens in this episode. I thought some of the trial stuff was like kind of bizarre to me. And I feel like the modern storyline was like really tortured in terms of like trying to contrive a circumstance where now we have a bunch of suspects to the murder. If indeed it was a murder, I will get to that question in a second of law. at the end of this episode. So, like, we have weird shit.

Like, Shawna went to Manhattan to get a cat. You know what I mean? Like, just, like, really... Yeah. Or Van and Ty separate for no reason other than to, like, make it unclear who killed Lottie. All of, like, just really feeling the, like, the gears... I'm going to say that again. Just really feeling the gears grinding on the contortions of the plot in this episode.

Even just Jeff, I thought everything with Jeff being moved to seek karma points was actually pretty compelling, but the fact that they wind up at Missy's. Yeah, yeah, yeah. In general, I thought that the... I think Warren Cole can sell anything. Anything. And sometimes not enough credences. This, but...

Yeah. Maybe not furniture. But in terms of lines, like, this whole thing is a... Like, if I'm an actor and I get this plot and it's like, suddenly my character's obsessed with karma points. No, I'm like, this... I can't sell this. Yeah.

And Warren Cole's like... But he did. In my sleep. He did. Easy. He's wonderful as always. I thought the thing that I did, that I did not particularly enjoy as you're, I'm with you on this episode was in the modern storyline, again, kind of pulled me back into when season two felt like it went off of the very contained, confident this is moving in a clear direction. Yeah. Season one tracks.

When season two went off of those tracks, I think it was often because the characters in the modern present storyline were behaving in ways that did not make sense. Yeah. Like, why would Sean to do this thing? We talked about that a lot in season two. And there were a number of examples of that as you outlined in this episode. And I think that that's just like not, I don't know why. Because the show doesn't need to enter into tortured logic or mystery for the sake of it. The core inherent mysteries are compelling enough.

And the character dynamics are undeniably compelling enough. Snoring, gasping during sleep, feeling fun. fatigue? Ask your doctor about Zepbound, terseptite. The first and only FDA-approved prescription medicine for moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea, OSA, and adults with obesity. Zepbound is a prescription medicine used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea, OSA, and obesity to improve their OSA. Zetbound is approved as a 2.5, 5, 7.5, 10, 12.5, or 15 milligram injection. Zepound contains terseptide and should not be used with other terseptide containing products or any GLP1 receptor agonist medicines.

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cancer, or if you've had multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2. Tell your doctor if you get a lump or swelling in your neck. Stop Zepbound and call your doctor if you have severe stress. stomach pain or a serious allergic reaction. Severe side effects may include inflamed pancreas or gallbladder problems. Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes before scheduled procedures with anesthesia. If you're nursing, pregnant, plan to be, or taking birth control pills. Taking Zepbound with a sulfonel urea or insulin may cause low blood sugar.

Side effects include nausea, diarrhea, and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and worsened kidney problems. Talk to your doctor. Call 1-800-545-9-9 or visit zepbound. Lily.com. We don't need that kind of tortured logic and the forced extra layer of the who-done it or why or who, you know, whom's where or when mystery because the core mysteries of the show are compelling enough and undeniably the character dynamics are compelling enough. So like when we luxuriate and that and the show is operating at that high frequency, it's often the most entertained, whether it's the best is almost a different thing,

but it can often be the most entertaining hour of like the week. Yeah. But this felt like a backside in a way that has me like a little worried about the rest of the season, though. Hopefully it's just a blip and we're right back where we need to be next week. I think my main concern, even more so than anything else, I'm not like not like not interested in Nat anymore because present day Nat is no longer with us. But like that character has sort of stalled out a bit and when she's like one of the most compelling.

The real tough time I'm having right now, especially out of this episode, is with Shauna. Because Shauna is so fundamentally important to us. I don't need Shauna to be likable. Like that's a trap that we fall in all the time with. characters. I don't need that. I always need the characters to be root forable in some way. I will root for a murderer if they are compelling enough. Right. I'll root for fucking Lestat to drain all of New Orleans. Like, I don't really care. Yeah. So it's not, it's not, yeah, you did. It's not like, it's not like ability. It's root forableness. That's not a word.

And I think that like, Shauna, and I understand the trauma space she's in and I understand and everything that she's gone through. But like, Shauna's hard line on the Ben trial. Yeah. I thought her testimony was really compelling when she was talking about her experience. Her experience and him abandoning her. And I thought his then subsequent apology also was very compelling. Yeah.

But the fact that, like, everyone is, like, moved and she is just in an unn nuanced anger space. Yeah. We don't have enough to support that. Yeah, it's just like it doesn't feel like the complexities of what that character and what that performer is capable of, you know? Yeah, I agree. I think like because we've gotten and we got it, you know, at the end of last season, there's a kind of callback in the examination. Well, didn't you think it should have been you last season? They didn't say last season on the show.

First thing, last season. And we had seen Shauna Scrawling exactly that in her journal. Like, how could it not have been me? Missy's pretty perceptive. And then, you know, at the beginning of this season, we opened with the collective and then Shauna removed and apart chronicling her dismay. And we really felt that separation. I think Shauna making the case at the end, how can you guys allow this to stand? Clearly this person does not care about us and meant us harm. And then nobody agreeing with her. I would have bought. So for me, it was a little less her rigid. because that felt more in sync with like where she has been the last few episodes and more the effect that had in the group. But I'm open to that feeling like it clicks into place over the next few episodes because obviously in general, part of what we like and enjoy tracking over the episodes with the show is the way that the dynamic shift, who is loyal to whom at a given point and who is poised to take over. The other thing about this episode, though, that that makes me think of is like this was a little bit of like a saying,

the quiet part out loud episode as well. Structurally, the concept of a trial brings that to the fore. Sure. You're tasked whether you're in the witness box or prosecuting or defending with saying the thing. I guess what I mean more is Mel going off to Shawna at the end and saying like, that's power. It's like, yeah. The lady Macbeth. Yeah.

Yeah. thing. Interesting. Oh, did you just hear my knee crack? Nope. It's one thing when I move my arms and my shoulder cuts, but a knee crack is, well, maybe I'm just thinking. about Mari and why wouldn't we be? Her new favorite character was shock and a twist. Okay.

Before we get to Mari and her reaction of being called to the stand, let's talk about this idea of the trial. Somebody thought was interesting. I was like looking up, I mean, I've seen 12 Angry Men a million times and that's certainly on our mind when they're like revoting, revoting, revoting at the end. You know what else I was thinking of with the revoting was Conclave. You love, you love Conclave. I really enjoyed Conclave.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Not one of my free here. Is he going to win Best Picture? I was listening to the Big Pick predictions, and Sean really seemed sure that it was just a two-movie race at this point, that it was down to just Anora and Conclave. So I don't know. That made me think, maybe.

But I still think Anora. It's a Nora. Yeah. I still think it'll be a Nora. It won't be Dune Part 2, which I don't understand. Faffling and sad. I don't understand. As you know, my three favorite movies of the year were Dune Part 2.

Flow and a complete unknown. I do know that about you. Timmy and cats. A trial. Yes. I was like, was there ever like a mock trial and Lord of the Flies? There isn't. But what I did find out is that apparently the trial of Jack from Lord of the Flies is a, did you ever do this?

This is a very popular like school mock trial scenario. I did mock trial in school. But we did like a very boring like who stole this car trial, I think or something like that. We didn't do. Should we go back to school and do trial jack? Can you defend this fictional character that sounds way more fun and interesting to do at mock trial? Yeah. But apparently this is like a really popular.

And you just say Piggy's name out loud a lot. You just say Piggy? Yeah. Okay. Piggy. Okay. So what he did. Yeah.

But did you know this? Did you know that like the trial of Jack was like a popular mock trial thing? I never did trial of Jack. This sounds familiar to me, but I don't know why I would have known this. And sadly did not get to participate in such an exercise. would have been thrilling. It would have been really fun. Yeah.

This was the single most Lord of the Flies episode of Yellow Jackets to me, though. Yeah, that's why I thought I was like, I couldn't remember. I was like, did they do something similar in Lord of the Flies? Not that I could deduce. But even just with like the conch shell and just this, all of the pursuits of order. That's what I'm saying. Children pursuing order and justice. Let's talk about the pomp and circumstance of this trial.

So like we talked a lot last season as they sort of transitioned into this like wilderness cults and letting the cards decide, something like that. This idea of abdicating. responsibility for the hard choices that they're making. And that's something, you know, we were like, oh, the wilderness decided. It wasn't us. Right. And I thought it was interesting inside this episode when they described it as, not talking

about pulling the card and the way they described it is like when the wilderness chose Javi. They don't say when the wilderness chose you. Right. Because that's just how they've rewritten the story. You fall in one ice hole. Right. And all of a sudden the wilderness has chosen you.

Right. So this is a different. sort of thing. And it's reflective of we're in the reign of Nat. Right? This is Nat's tribe. It's not Lottie's tribe. And we're going to have a trial. And we are going to wear robes and the lawyers are going to wear like Toga sort of things. And we have

found the time to fashion a gavel and a soundblock, which is what I found. I had to Google, what is the thing that's underneath the gavel called? It's called the soundblock. You're learning so much about the courtroom. I really am. Courtroom artist. You're getting ready for Daredevil. I am. I am.

Call me. The airplane seats. You know, Nat as judge sitting in a seat from their crashed plane. Tie wearing an airplane seatbelt as a belt on her lawyer's sash thing. Yes. Love a lawyerly sash. Yeah. So this attempt, to your point, this attempt to play act the conventions of our society back home.

Right. She seems largely displeased. She's not arguing against it. She's very wisely sort of taking a backseat to what other people are deciding. And she's sort of like watching and waiting. She's not arguing again. She does bring up the pack of cards to swear on instead of the Bible. So she's like, I'm still the spiritual advisor.

Yeah. But she's not like, we shouldn't do this. She says we let the wilderness decide, but she doesn't insist upon it. Yeah. And she is also, along with every other character. who has nuance, so not you this week, Shauna, visibly moved by Ben's speech that he gives.

And also compelled by the logic in the examination. I thought that Lottie both with bringing the cards up for the swearing-in, and of course what she says in in tandem with that, leading to Nat, cutting her off to say like, yeah, yeah, yeah, the truth and the whole truth. But even in the initial argument about whether, because Shauna just wants to kill Ben immediately.

they get back to camp, she's like, you're not going to talk to this guy. He tried to burn us all alive. And when Nat makes the case that they're not going to just instantly kill him, that they need to seek the truth. And that moment of appealing to Lonnie. Why would they march him all, I guess maybe for ease of meat proximity? Was there a duck jail anywhere else? No, but like if Shawna just wants to kill him, why wouldn't she just knife him? Maybe she was still recovering from the gas.

You know, needed a little bit of time to get the poison cave gas out of her system. And then she's like, I'm back on a murder quest. But it's a fair question, probably because they built all those TPs for the set. Wanted to just have like a cool area to sit in. Yeah. But like when Lottie said what you're alluding to, life and death has always been for it to decide. You know, and the cards. Like it felt like she was still looking in there saying we're going to do this.

Yeah. Two-thirds majority structure, process, a system, something civil. Yeah. Lottie is still looking for ways to imbue. that process with the religious and the supernatural. And like, but again, she doesn't force it. But the reason that what felt true to me is that like, it's because she's not confident in her connection to that right now.

So if she were more. I thought also confident in her standing in the group. And they're one in the same. Yeah. Right? Because the reason that everybody. And that was what was interesting actually about like that not only Shauna swinging the votes at the end, but it's when Lottie puts her hand up that then Travis does.

than Akela does. So Lottie still has her loyalty. She still has her group inside of this larger faction. The yearning tendrils of the mushroom crew. The yearning tendrils of the mushroom crew. Exactly. Just so. It's us prepping for Last of us and it's Travis Akela Lottie out in the wilderness. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, that like, you know, and much of what they were discussing across the trial about could there be another explanation other than Ben Burn, Ben Burn, the cabin down and tried to kill us all. Obviously, it's not an exact one-to-one comp, but it felt very similar to the way they have all talked about. Could there be another explanation other than it, capital I, other than the wilderness, other than the darkness, other than this thing happening around us? And so even just the way that they are considering what is unfolding around them still felt tethered to the evolution that has unfolded inside of the- What it struck supernatural thing. What it struck me as is like, we are going to, we know what we're headed towards, which is like the absolute bedlam of, of Mari or someone else going into the pit

and the like the feral masked dilapidated around the fire like ravenously consuming the meat. Non on that meat. So we are still... We have lost the cabin but under the reign of Nats

we have built these beautiful structures We've got the animals in the pens. We've got you know ritual. We've got, we're playing games, we've got holidays. Society. So, yeah, Nats's like, we've built a society. We have rule, we have law and order, we're going to have a trial.

Yeah. But this is the last, this is what I talked about when we talked about the opening. And we were talking about this sort of like idyllic commune sort of imagery that we saw at the beginning while Kat Stevens is playing your babe. And like how we were watching that only to know that it's going to fall apart. Fall all apart. Yeah. And this feels like, especially. since this episode does so much to undermine Nat as a leader.

For sure. This feels like the last... The factions have emerged again. Like, vestige of an attempt to maintain civility and society and law and order inside of chaos. Yeah. And unity. And I think, like, that's an interesting thing for the show to continue to mind. Like, the idea of society and structure hinging in full on consensus.

is impractical inherently and actually at odds with the idea of democracy democracy right so the fact that every time there is conflict or tension it leads to the decimation and decay of the thing they have very temporarily propped back up yeah is interesting and of course like the on the lord lord of the flies front the the great constant like um you know uh the boy the boy born back by the current like Gatsby element of being out there has just brought out something feral and base in them that you suppress when you go about your life in the world. And that was the other thing about the trial that I thought was fascinating as a structure and part of why I wish the episode had been a little bit better.

But this part of it I thought worked was like doing this allowed, not everybody. We have a lot of very quiet observers who did a great job tearing up when they they needed to. It allowed certain key players, though, to rediscover a tether to something fundamental about their desire and their sense of identity. Ty has always wanted to be a lawyer, and she gets to be here. Misty wants to have a purpose inside of the group, once that people turn to her and say, you're the one we need to do this thing. Like, they got to do that. And so that, like, allows you to hold onto a sense of self that then fakes. Kind of, on the one hand, And on the other hand, I think when you talk about sort of this idea of a primal thing that that has always been inside you, I think one of the most interesting things that Yellow Jackets does, especially is it's, we talk about the way in which Yellow Jackets is stalking the legacy that is lost. And Lost is doing a lot of great work, exploring what it means to be all kinds of humans. What Yellow Jackets is preoccupied with is what it means to be a teenage girl and Travis. And so. And Ben. So it's about the desires and the.

and the literal and figurative appetites of young women and what they are told that they need to suppress and smooth over and gloss up in order to get along in and have power in society. It's why a Jackie has power back home and a Jackie does not have power out in the wilderness. And it's why Shauna interacting with her hallucination of Snackie when stuck in the freezer is, in theory, such a rich text because what is the thing that Jackie says to her? did you come home and become the person you always wanted to be?

I thought the most interesting thing she said was, I'm the most interesting thing about you. That felt so, like, it's so beautifully continued the final fight. You know, are you quoting beaches? I mean, just like that horrible rearing of that, like, thing you suppress that you don't want to say to somebody you, like, have a proximity to her relationship to. And it's like the judgment. I miss their relationship.

I'm glad the show is still finding ways to, like, to bring that to the surface because it actually it actually isn't as interesting to watch young Shauna interact with other people. I really agree. I really agree. It's too bad. And I think that like, I mean, with love and respect to Melissa,

it's just not even remotely as interesting. I know, Mel, you got some big frozen and then roasted shoes to fill. When I was rewatching the snacky Shawna with her frozen meat ram interaction, it sent me to rewatch the end of Fight Club because the fight between the Tyler's Durdin and this idea of like, I'm the most interesting thing about you.

Why would you kill me? I'm what you want to be. Was very much top of mind for me here. I love that. Eloperno, Brad Pitt. Same, same. Two icons. Icons are both.

Same, same. Same. On the, like, Akila dream front. Yeah. Akila, who was like resistant, was like, I don't want it. Like, resistant to Lottie trying to draft her. Literally said, like, I didn't want to come over here. You have one cave gas dream.

And then all of a sudden, your team mushroom. But Akila and Van and Shauna walking, here's my question to you. Do you think we got confirmation of the shared dream? Let me explain. Shauna and Akila and Van are walking back. looking at each other sort of uneasily. And Shauna's like, it doesn't have to mean anything. She's out of fan on her crazy dreams here.

I've had way crazier dreams, like whatever. I dreamed my baby was a roast chicken. And then... Akela, when she's talking to Lottie, she says she had a dream that feels different from the dream Shana and Van had. And Lottie says that it's a vision and they should go back and regass themselves what the fuck Lottie. But like, I mean, classic Lottie, to be honest with you.

But I don't think... Yeah. You know, a killer refers to it as the the dream and wonders if it's a message. But I don't, then later says her dream was different. So I don't know that we have confirmation that all the girls walked out of that cave and said, did you dream of Jackie in the classroom? Did you get a slap bracelet around your neck? I think it's in this episode left intentionally opaque because obviously there are.

Because then you still have the realistic plausible dinability if we all just had a gas. Is gas leak? Right. If you go through every single detail and it is. identical, it's harder to deny. Yeah, that something else is afoot. Yeah. I liked when Lottie replied to Achila's description of like it was a memory but it wasn't or like it really happened but it didn't.

And I don't know. It felt like it was and Lottie cuts her off with the truth. This is how cults and fanatics who are seeking to acquire and amass followers do it. is one of the ways to do it. Tell us more about your cult building tactics Mallory Rubin. I think some of what we do here is that, frankly. Frankly.

The ringer cult. I think it became clear in season two when we covered the Sunshine Honey crew that I have less cult knowledge. But you're confused. You're at sea. You don't understand what's happening to you.

And someone tells you two things. One, you're special and have been chosen. And two, the thing that is happening to you is the true thing. The true thing about life existence. Like, it's a hard thing to resist the pull of that. Lottie then immediately being like, and give me the goob, drop your pin to that cave. To that good, good guess. Was on the one hand, let's keep, much like she was doing with Travis, right, keep taking the mushroom tea.

Let's keep. We have this ember. tended until it is a roaring inferno, though hopefully not one that burns down our new tepees. And you can refine this connection to the wilderness. But what really felt true to me, speaking of the truth, is that Lottie is on her own quest of rekindling here. And she's like, I used to hear it and I don't anymore. This is what happened when she named Nat.

When she suggested that everybody made Nat the leader, she's like, I used to hear it and I don't anymore back in the end of last season. And she is seeking. We saw her fear this in the modern timeline last season, let this just be enough. But here in the wilderness, she is seeking to rediscover the thing that she has lost, whether that's because she misses the power

or because she misses her own sense of the truth, I think, is open for debate. The truth, once again, allows you to advocate responsibility for Shawna later when she is talking about Ben and she's saying he shames us what we've done. We are survivors,

what we've done to survive. Right. And then Ben's like, no, no, I admire you. Please don't kill me. I loved when you guys. Eight people. It was really great.

I didn't say it at the time. It's pretty cool that you did that. You know, if you feel like you have access to the divine truth of the universe, the divide truth of the universe is like, nobody can tell you you're wrong. Eat your friends. Even Malarubin might eat an ear. Well, you never know. Yeah, she wants to commune with the wild again. She wants to regain that status and she wants to regain that sense of certainty.

And yeah, I think. Allowance. Exactly. Allowance, forgiveness, justification. Will they find, though, on the theory corner front, something other than poison. in the cave. If they go back and seek that out, because we still don't know. Was Ben just talking to, like, Phantom Paul? We thought so. But maybe there are other people in those caves. We kind of find out because, yeah, Mari, in her testimony. Marry, we should note when she's called

to stand. Oh, shit. She goes, but she doesn't say it like that. No, she's like, oh shit. That's her says it. Like a little, like a little surprise. I read it out Ben. We went and got it now. Essentially. Oh, snap. Oh, shit. She's killing it. She's great. She's our favorite. We love her. It never saw this coming. Not in a. million years. The show should be called Mari Jackets. That would be great. She's the best.

And she points out that Ben was like talking to someone. And I'm like, we have to, we have to know if they are going to execute Ben next week. Question mark. Maybe some torture for a couple weeks. We haven't got those like. Levitate him. I don't really understand. Hanging screaming shots.

I don't really understand Travis's drawing. And I've looked at it many times. Wait, but that was, wasn't that Harvey's drawing one of I thought Travis was doing that while. So you think he took? Because the burned, the burned parchment. It was on one of like the burned pieces of parchment. Oh, I thought it was like, okay, I'm sorry.

I really did watch this episode several times. I thought it was on like tree bark. And he was actively. That might be right. Yeah. Because he was actively like doing something during the trial. Yeah. So he's, okay.

So I thought he was like a prescient. Yes. Well, and that would be, that's I think completely viable. Yeah, yeah. So because Harvey and. Season 2, episode 5, Javi has all those drawings that then discovers. Obviously, we talked a lot about the tree roots and they're bedecking Travis's hammock grotto. Right. And the fact that they had that look to them, the like, I spilled coffee on this to give it this effect.

I thought meant that they were definitely Javi's drawings that Travis had rescued in the fire, but they got a little singed. Yeah. So then when I saw that at the end, I thought, oh, is that one of Javie's drawings? and had he or his friend somehow anticipated this. But Travis, having the drunk Travis experience or the mushroom tea experience, we know that he heard the chitters and the distressing, wails and cries and moans and roars and chitters before everyone else.

So if this outcome came to him and he sketched it out, that also seems right. But also, that seems probably more right. likely what's happening. I guess I have to And maybe he's like, I like Javvy's drawing so let me do some of my own.

And I swear he was drawing but like I need to go back and play back the tape or you can email us Hobbs and Dragons to Gmail.com if you're like Joanna duh it's obviously hobby's drawing but the no matter what I kind of feel

like that image could mean literally anything. Right because there were the three bodies which I assumed were like three the cave gas because they were like down and then like a man. And then like a man. on his back.

Yeah, and I was like, that's been... So how is that the outcome of the trial? Because it was the outcome of him rescuing the three of them led to the trial. He, like, revealed himself to the group. I have no idea. Or... The three people could also be prosecution, defendant, judge. Yes, judge.

Yeah. Yep. That was an interesting moment when Nat was, like, called to be a witness and objected, and they're like, you can't do that. And she's like, I'm the judge. Because Nat has always been the, like, I don't want it person.

That's all, she was also like looking bored in her seat at a certain point. Yeah. Was sort of like that's, I couldn't really get a full read on that inside of this episode. Yeah. Okay. Let's point out that Chonna definitely lies on the stack of playing cards when she says she did not want to be the leader. Yes. Uh-huh.

But then she gives her whole, he's not one of us speech. And when she's like, so what do you think she means? when she says he's not one of us. And we're talking about tribalism inside of this show, which we think is interesting. Yeah. Yes. How do you think they're currently defining themselves as survivors, as cannibals, as wilderness acolytes, as women plus Travis, who has been effectively neutered? Like, what do you think Shauna would say?

Hmm. That's an interesting question. I think she is holding on to a couple things there. one, the judgment, the idea of being judged, and two, the idea of being abandoned by him. And so the things that those two emotions and ideas connect to are a lot of the things you just said. We, as a true team, as a group, a team of soccer players, a group of survivors. Find young cannibals. Exactly. Exactly.

Don't abandon each other. Don't give up. Misty was scared to help with the delivery to. but came back and helped. But also, we are people who are willing to do what is necessary to stay alive. I think Shauna, and this feels like a tether between the two timelines in a clear way, is unapologetic and consistently assured and never ashamed to do the thing that's necessary to make sure she survives and the people she loves survives. And she felt that Ben threatened that.

threatened that and judged it and believed it was not appropriate or right. And to Shawna, it's the only right thing. It's the only goal. Make it forward one more day. And so that that is a distinction on a like philosophical, fundamental level that makes me think they can never align. And I think she sees it that way too. I just think it's really interesting because I don't feel like I have a strong sense of who Shauna feels like is under her umbrella of protection. Because I feel like that moves around.

Do you know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She's certainly willing to kill people. Like in the modern storyline, I would say, of course, Jeff and Callie are like under the Shauna protection. But like at a certain time, I would say, that was, you know. But is she, I mean, but. Ty. You know, tie, maybe. But then. Snuggled in Callie's bed, talking about their lives. Yeah. Back in the day. It feels like a long time ago.

It does feel like a long time ago. Misty goes full Perry Mason. And I love that for her. and tries to lay the blame on anyone but Ben. This is a great strategy. Also, when I watched a lot of Perry Mason growing up with my mom in the mornings, which I used to do before school, I thought this is how it works in court. It doesn't.

Your job as a lawyer is not to find out who actually done it, but that's what Perry Mason would do every week. Your job is just to make an argument to convince the jury of something or the other, but not like point to the back of the courtroom in someone that. stands up and he's like, yeah, blah, blah. Well, I thought that was effective that Misty's goal was not necessarily to act. She very amusingly continues to be like, Shauna did it. But she's just like reasonable doubt.

Reasonable doubt. It could have been anyone. And so if it could have been anyone, we can't say for sure it was Ben. Shauna Nat, Ty, sure. New Jen catches astray there. Incredible moment when she's like, what fuck? Melissa catches astray. Oh, yeah.

Crystal. Fuck you, Misty. Listen, this is like the great deception and lie of Misty's life. I mean, I guess it's actually not. It's on a pretty crowded list along with I destroyed the Black Box. It's like a six out of ten, honestly. But her commitment to continuing to mention Crystal whenever she can is a high comedy to me. I love it.

We also like, we don't know who started the fire. No. No. What's your leading theory? I am convinced it was not Ben now. Oh, I am so sure it was not Ben. I think it's dark tie. Yeah, that feels very likely.

Sleeper tie. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, the other one. I think that seems very reasonable. I did, like, I was rewatching that sequence to try to see, like, who was visible where and when. But it's just, it's tough because Shauna's upstairs in the attic alone journaling, and that's when we get the first glimpse of the fire. And then it takes her a couple minutes, like, to get down to where everyone else is in there waking up.

But like, are they? Yeah. You know, so dark tie feels like a great call. You know, this is just a higher stakes version of like who's shit in the bucket that you're only supposed to piss in. And we also thought that was that. We also thought that I did like, I'm not saying I believe this, but I thought the most compelling alternate case Misty presented was Lottie. Right. She's like, people aren't believing so you start a fire.

Yeah. So she was talking about something else in history. She worked to something drastic to show us who the real hero is, the real leader. Yeah. She was talking about like setting fire. to like in history setting fires to the houses of nonbelievers. That's one thing. But also sort of mixed in here was the concept of the Reichstag fires, which was, which

were the fires that were started and the rise of Nazism to implicate, like the Nazis start these fires, the Nazi party starts these fires to implicate their opposition to paint them as terrorists to gather support around them. So the idea, you know, Hobbit and Drags to Gmail.com, if I fucked up that history. But like the idea being you, and it's still something that our modern politicians are using, you just sort of like, you make your enemy so scary in order to cast yourself as the great protector. You know, so Lottie in that case, if she started the fire, she could introduce herself as the great protector. I thought that was really interesting as well.

But I still think it's sleeper tie. And then, yeah, Stephen Kruger, who plays Ben, I don't think, and we said this last season, we say it every season, we don't think Ben's going to make it out of the season. But I don't want to be. I don't want to be without him. Feels like this is it. This is curtains for Ben.

He's been great, so great this season, and this is really it. When he was like, we're talking about, you didn't listen to me anymore. Yeah. You didn't need me anymore. So Ben is this, like, last hobbled vestige of the, the patriarchy, right? I am the male adult and you didn't listen to me anymore and you didn't need me anymore. Right. And that was intolerable to me. Right. You know? Yeah. But also like I believed him, I'm not sure I believed him when he was like, I admire you guys for the cannibalism, but I believed

his like, I didn't want to be a teacher. Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah. For sure. And then I loved you all. Yeah. And I protected you all. And I cared about you. Like, I think that's all true. Yeah. I really loved that. I thought it was great. He obviously is like revealing a little bit about himself in this stretch as well, talking about his family and what he, what was absent in his life growing up. And like one of the moments I really loved. So torn ACL is that? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Lost that bright soccer feature when, uh, when the ligament went, went boom. The moment where he's like, if I had wanted to hurt you here all the other times I could have done it. And those ways were not. equivalence to burning them alive in the wilderness, they were back home, right? You know, like I could have ratted you after getting drunk. I could have rid of you out because I found you guys hooking up.

Like, I, first of all, what I loved about that is like the reminders. They're in this supremely uncommon situation and to remind each other of the history, which of course Misty is doing too, just in her opening. And so much of what Misty is doing with Ben from the bird pen moment all the way through to the trial is like everything she's saying about them collectively, she's obviously just talking about herself and her feelings. Birds, Missy. Great.

Boyd. We're talking about points? I'm going to jail with birds. Stie. That was really great. And like I like those reminders of the history that they've shared. But the other thing I really liked about that was it was the other side of, you know, we talked about this a lot in season two.

When in the Paul Ben visions did we move firmly into alternate history from memory into alternate history? into the choice I didn't make in the life I could have lived if I had. But one of the scenes that felt still, like, true and, like, Ben was actually remembering something that had transpired was when Paul was like, why are you going with them? You hate them. You don't like them. Yeah. And we could feel that Ben was pulled toward them and this thing that they had accomplished together because it was.

You're amazing. Team family. Yeah. And like that then to find yourself on the outside of that. Like the weird team family. Like the weird. That beautiful. Yeah. You know, to then feel in this situation, literally a life and death situation, you have no idea if you're going to be found.

If you're going to be rescued is this forever. My leg got chopped off as he reminds them. To feel whether it's because they're ready to eat each other and you're not or any number of other reasons that you were on the outside of that. that that team you had together gave you a sense of belonging and a thing you felt like you had lacked earlier in your life. And then it was gone. It had been taken. You survived and you were not a part of it with them would be so, of course that would be. Do you think this happens if Ben still has both of his legs?

This being all of it? Just him being on the- Do you think Ben would have been able to keep a firmer grip on his authority? No, Matt, initially, yes. He would have been more in charge. one instead of, you know, he doesn't need to lean against a tree trunk as Misty holds his hand and sinks him so he can take a shit. Right. Right. He doesn't need to have his bandages change. He's not in such a vulnerable situation that Misty is literally poisoning him as she's feeding him, keeping him

ensnared. Misery-lo's company, baby. Exactly. Yes. But no matter what, he hits that moment because he's an adult and they're young. And that would always have been a divide with this group. I think it's one of the really like the real genius decisions in the first two episodes to kill the coach, to kill Travis and Javi's dad, to coach Martinez, and to kill the flight attendants and the pilots. Like for Ben to be the only one who was young enough. Yeah, young, but still the adult. You buy it when he and Nat are like hanging out at Doomcoming and bonding and talking.

you could see that that authentic connection would be there and would be real and would be attainable. But it's not the same. It's not the same. So I really liked all of that. I loved the emotion. I loved the way that he said that he was ashamed and embarrassed by what he had done. Like that was just really moving and great. A great performance.

And I think really well written. And I liked everyone sniffling at that. Did we mention that Nat walked out in the Antler Queen? Had dressed. We should mention that. So Nat came out wearing the... There's also a few cool shots of like him framed in the prongs of like there's shots for the cameras behind. Because she takes it off pretty quickly and puts it to the side.

But there's shots like through the antlers into the jury boxes and stuff like that. Yeah. That was fun payoff. Obviously that's in the position of leadership already. But that was fun payoff on those like... On the airplane sort of stuff. The glimpses we got in season two. I liked that.

And you know, on this divide between Ben and the group, I was also struck, whether in what Shawna was saying or when Ty is building the case of Ben's guilt, just how firmly, this is maybe sounds like a contradictory point to what you were saying earlier about the order, but I don't think it is. It's like when they ate Jackie, Ty woke up the next morning, said she hadn't done it and it threw up when they were like, you. Vann's like, you ate her face. they couldn't talk about there were these great little moments

over the next couple episodes where in hushed private huddles one of them would say to the other like, well I hope that person is okay but if they died it wouldn't be so bad because then we can eat them and like it was pretty good, right? They are just saying

with their chest as our old ringer colleague and beloved pal, Chase Serrano used to say, say it with your chest. Like we eat them. Like there's no deniability. There's no

There's no shame at all in that anymore. They're like, we did these things. And so even though they are in an era of trying to reestablish the structure. Do you think she can eat him? I think it's entirely possible. Somebody who let her down can't have it. Somebody who she could eat. Checking all the boxes for Shawna.

The full package. I don't have much I want to say before. I want to get to this lot of situation because I kind of feel like we've covered Van and Thai and all that sort of stuff like that. Oh, you want to talk about the vote? No, no, we talked about the vote. I think we covered that all, right? Any other?

No, but I want to, oh, I think we've kind of covered the old folks' home stuff, and I think we've covered, I think the Van and Ty plot in this episode is pretty not great to me. I have one question, so on the Shawna Jeff Misty front before we move on from that entirely. Well, no, I wanted to mention that the most important thing to me, which is that Misty, Mrs. Walter and hopes he gets in touch with her. How are you feeling about this? Great.

He texted her. He did, but before you text her, she was looking for a secret, like... She took Stetlana's blank piece of paper, which was intended to communicate with the comptroller. And some crucial puzzle pieces. That's just actually fucked up and cruel. It's classic Misty, honestly. We were watching a screener, but I was like, what is on the puzzle? Is that a clue?

Did Walter leave this puzzle with Spetlana as some sort of message for Misty? But then Spetlan is like, I've been working on it for a month. Yeah, yeah. But Walter was doing his puzzle. and his fancy lair back in while listening to musicals and drinking milk. I didn't link that part. Okay.

I did not like a goblet of milk is always going to be a no for me. It was important to me that Misty, before Walter reached out to her, Misty was looking for messages from him. Yeah. In the ways he used to leave them. It matters to me. Yeah, to get out that black light, find what he's scrawled to. And then she's like so bummed that there's nothing on the paper.

Yeah. I loved that. Oh, will Walter be back next? week? He better be. Yeah. I hope so. We have some fun Walter theorizing to do when we talk about Lottie's corpse in a minute. On the brakes front, this whole thing that leads to the pursuit of the karma points, the karma deficit. Here's the question. This is a classic Yellow Jackets question. The guy's like, nobody cut your brakes. What the hell

are you talking about? Break booster. Oh, so who fucked with that? Nobody that just failed? Like, this is just normal car stuff. Is it? I believe that the brakes might have just failed. And we both agree we don't think Missy had anything to do with it. But someone definitely slammed that door shut of that freezer. Right. I rewatch that several times. The freezer, the brakes.

The thing I keep thinking about is like, Shauna did pull the card. This is where the Nat Javi, the It Chose thing, as interesting as a comp, because Shauna pulled the card in the season two finale and then Nat died. Does that mean it chose Nat? And so Sean is off the hook? Or is Shauna still on the clock here in a way? That was the other thing that was interesting in this episode,

The Cop. And like Jackie Snackie makes this text like, oh, like you're going to just, oh, this would be fitting if you froze to death like me. But Shauna finding herself in this perilous circumstance with the cold when like her tie to death by freezing is so core. we talked about last episode, the van having the dreams of fire when she nearly burned alive on the plane and then of course the cabin, etc. like those parallels keep emerging. But yeah, like we do know that somebody is actually trying to get in touch with Shawna, leaving the envelope in the tape, staring at her in the bar, leaving the phone. But leaving messages is so different from slamming the door shut on a freezer. So is it coincidence?

Just like any of these other things where it could be coincidence or could be another explanation, is it this person in pursuit of her or Walter or somebody else? Is the answer, or whether it's its coincidence or something else, that it doesn't necessarily matter as much as what Shauna ends up thinking. Because that feels very similar to me to Adam in season one where, like, he didn't do it. Yeah. But she thought he did. And she was wrong. And she was wrong and she killed him. And she is.

So it's like, what is Shawna going to do? By the way, often wrong. Often wrong and driven to act with a sense of certainty. The way that she is just sticking to blaming Misty was actually bizarrely personally aggravating to me. I found that very weird too. It was so weird and just like once again seemed out of character. Okay. So all of this happens.

We've got a few little details to talk about in terms of like, let's say, one might say that snacky when she appears to Shana is goading her. to action. You're just going to take this lying down. You're not going to do anything. Someone's coming after. You're not going to do anything. One might say in the Van and Ty's, I think, frankly, dumb storyline when they're like stalking a guy with the card, Van says, fuck the wilderness.

Can't we just enjoy the time we have left? So it seems like Van doesn't seem convinced her cancer's gone. We get the shaking hand later. But in terms, and then we know that Ty was trying to get in touch with Lottie. So let's just do Lottie. This is what I want to do. Lottie withdraws a significant amount of money, possibly, from a bank, or at least does some major transaction with a bank. Yes.

Yeah. Got a personal escort and a personal thank you. How to slip a paper. The thing that was on my mind with a trip to the bank, this will connect when we get to theorizing to the possibility of whether Lottie is responsible for what happened to Lottie. Exactly. When everything happened with Lottie and Travis. Like, we know money was moved, right? A bank account was involved.

And there was also, to the extent that we know still all the details and can believe what Lottie's account was because we glimpsed the truth that Nat was not privy to. Part of that was like the idea that you can gain, you can commune with the darkness. You can commune with it, the wilderness, if you are an inch from death. Right. And so is Lottie seeking the same thing that we have been told Travis was now that she has been swept back up in this again? And was the bank some sort of like readying for that scenario in some way? Though she is practicing elsewhere an apology in the mirror. Like she has an appeal to make to someone.

And so maybe the money is going to someone else. Okay. So these are the two possibilities I see in terms of the money. I just want to finish running down this Lottie thing. Right. So she withdraws the money from the bank. Yep. Tye calls Lottie, remarks on the construction noises. This feels significant, but I couldn't tell you why.

She's on Bedford Street. The camera lingers on the construction and Bedford Street very significantly. So, like, is that going to matter going forward. Lottie is practicing that I know I hurt you over and over again in the mirror in advance of meeting. Homsk. We don't know. Yeah. She's somewhere fancy, but the walls are still giving cabin to me the dark wood of the walls.

And then she's dead in a stairwell. It closely resembles the one from her dream with candles all around her or is she dead? She looks pretty dead. So this is the question. Yeah. Here's my bat-shit theory. Tell me. Hold all theories loosely.

Yes. Is there a world in which Lottie arranges, fakes her own death somehow? Mm-hmm. Does she look dead? I mean, yes, there's a pool of goo, but all we have to go on is a photograph. But we like pan out of a photo and get the caution. But we don't see anyone. There's no, like, there's no like, siren.

There's no, like, I thought we heard police talking. I'm not saying I'm, like, married to this. I'm just sort of like. So she's staging it to incite what? I don't know. To prove something. Yeah. To Shana.

To entice something out of Cali to X. I just would not put it past a rich, for sure. Messy bitch like Lottie to not stage her own death. I'm just saying I'm going to hold this very loosely. I just want it as a possibility that this is fake.

I like it. I would be happy, frankly, if that ended up being the case because I... Because we get the sound of the photographs and stuff like that, but I'm like, what if Lottie just like... Had people there. Stage this whole fucking thing.

Sure. It's entirely possible. I am... Well, I mean, Lottie did say when they were preparing to draw the card again and engage in the hunt in season two. And initially her suggestion before that was like, here someone take the roulette poison to booze.

She was like, I'll do it. She was as ready to die, right? So engaging with that either literally or just the fact that people would believe that to be true is interesting. I think the reason it feels to me like she is, and I don't really want Adult Lottie to be out of the show. I think like I was mixed in season

two but have really enjoyed her so far in season three. So I'm sort of like, wait, we lost adult Nat. And now another one. Something cool was happening here with Adult Lottie in season two. She already gone. I'm a little worried about how many characters were like we know a set end point. We still have a lot of room to play, but it does. And then there were four.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So I hope I'd love if she were still around. But the fact that the physical surrounding, the stair that that, that. concrete, dark, wet, farewell. Not after seeing the other locations in this episode. I'll come back to the New York, New Jersey thing and something else about the physical location in a second

that I have questions about. But no, because I don't get the sense that she was in a school when she was preparing in the mirror. My assumption is she died in that location, but maybe not. Maybe she went elsewhere. But when Laura Lee baptizes her, in season one episode six

and Lottie sees she's in that hallway it's wet, it's dark, she sees, you know, we talk about like the stag a lot as imagery. It's like, you know, ends up literally being like the moose

that they see and can't get, right? And following and then gets to the stairwell and the candles. And then when she wakes, she kind of has that like look up through the water at Laura Lee with the plume of fire behind her for telling the explosion.

the bumblebee. So like inside of the language and universe of the show where, and we'll say this every pod we ever do about Yellow Jackets until they definitively declare it, which maybe they never will, the question of if a vision is real or not,

if a thing is actually supernatural or not, is part of the point that what we and the characters like are debating that. But like many times Lottie's visions have then been born out by reality. So like Lottie long ago seeing her death

it feels to me like something the show would do. Totally. Absolutely. I really agree. There's something in me that feels like the season is taking a... And I don't know this is always the plan. It's taking a pivot towards there's a... Reasonable explanation for everything. Yeah, for sure. For sure. And I mean, honestly, like, that still works, though,

because Lottie, like, being like, I saw this place, so I'm going there. Or I set up a fucking club there. I found this there where I knew it and that's where... How long has those candles been there? Like something else. else has been going on there. Maybe that's like her rich family's like club or something. And that's the basement of it.

Like that's entirely possible. It could have been a location she knew in the past. Yeah. And now has like made into her like, uh, cult HQ light after losing sunshine honey or something like that. So on that front, the New York, New Jersey thing, the construction and the Bedford, seeing the bank into the construction into the bedford and the noise in general, I read that. I like the idea that maybe there's something more accurate.

particular specific of play. I write it as just like they wanted it to be unambiguous that she was in New York City, not New Jersey. That was kind of how it played to me. And then, because then when Ty... Because there's no construction in New Jersey? No, but just like seeing Bedford. Yeah, Bedford for sure. And like, it's just had that kind of like, this is a New York Street. She's in the city. Quickly make it apparent. Not that there's no construction in New Jersey, but just like, yeah. She's in the city, not the suburbs. I was confused by this because... I wish instead it had been a Newsy in the background being like, Welcome to the Big Apple.

Thank you for saying that. This gets me to my... I'm really glad that's what you said because this is what confused me about it. Yeah. Not to imply that there are not sidewalks, tables, and newsstands and bags of trash in New Jersey. There are certainly are.

But when Ty and Van were sitting at their table, deciding whether to go get the deck of cards and then leave it, I was like, oh, they're in New York City too. But they weren't. No. Because Ty goes out of... her way to mention the path, which is a train from Jersey to New York to get to Central Park. So then I was like, huh.

And the thing about that that was particularly confusing for, I was excited to make a case. Let me see if I can even remember what I thought here. First of all, it is so fucked up and hideous that Van and Ty, even though Van gets built to the point in the episode of like, I don't want to do this. They're like, let's just go kill a person. Like the waiter, it happened by accident. They saw it as a sign. No, but it's also stupid. Sorry. It's so fast. Yes, it doesn't feel... I'm having a very hard time. With Ty, you know, we leave her in season one having cut off the head of her own dog and made a sacrificial shrine in her basement.

Yeah, Biscuit, we remember you always. Sweet Biscuit, still wondering how Steve is doing. Oh, also on the two years old missing cat poster, I was like looking for clues. And I'm like, Steve and Daisy, have we met as Stephen Daisy? And I was like, ah, Steve made me think of Steve the dog once again. the cat's parent was Steve the dog. That's not an... What's happening? Okay, sorry. That was a fucked up thing that Shana did.

We didn't talk about that. Being like, I will trick this... And Jeff said it. He's like, so you're gonna... She's like, can we not give notes on my karma? I can't... Trick this family into thinking it's their cat? What the hell?

Twist to make it for a reason why Shana would have been in New York. Right. So that she... So she's a... Potentially at the scene of the crime. Van and Ty separate for no reason so that they can be suspect. Yes.

Yes. I agree. It's all. Walter is a suspect. For sure. And a very strong one because him, Walter wanting to, to incite something that leads to Misty, then re-commuting with him feels very watery. Okay. So the card.

They put down the card. It sticks to a woman's shoes. She peels it off. A horrifying moment where a small child is all very awful. This is all very awful. This guy who comes. and gets it. To me, it felt like he clocked it. Like, he was like, it wasn't, I mean, obviously, he looks it and then goes and picks it up, but like, there was like, did he, is he connected to Lottie

in some way? No. Like, to the, like, idea of the Red Queen. Okay, sorry. Maybe that's just not my read on it at all. So here's why, and I'm not saying it's mine either, but here's inside the episode what, like, okay, so this guy picks it up. They follow him. They can film these things anywhere they want. But, but Ty and Vansansansans, but Ty and followed that guy into a wood paneled building that was very similar visually to the place Lottie was in when she was talking into the mirror. Like the walls are just that like cherry wood paneling. And I was like before again, it became clear like they were not in the same state. So then I was like, wait, did Lottie go back to New Jersey?

Which doesn't make sense with everyone ending up in New York. I think that's just a stranger that they followed. And then I was like, well, did the card get to Lottie in some way? through that guy. None of which I'm particularly compelled by, to be clear. Okay. But he did take the card and then someone ended up dead at the end of the episode, which is a pattern inside of the show.

Somebody draws the card and then someone else dies. That has happened routinely. So it's like who is, we know Lottie's apologizing to people, to some mystery people. That guy, it's like he's going home with dry cleaning, with a girl's dress in it. He's going to like a family. Like, is that person in Lottie?

life in some way? Is there any way those things connect? Or was it just there to show us that Van and then suddenly not Van are ready to kill innocent people so that they can enjoy a little more time together? Who knows? We love all theories. We hold them loosely. We hold them dearly. Here are the only people that I think are not on my list of suspects because Callie's on my list because also this is at the bottom of stairwell. It could be a crystal moment where this is just like an accidental push down a stairwell, like not an intentional murder or just a confrontation or whatever. Yep.

So Walter, top of the list, Lottie herself on my list. Ty, Van, Shauna, Callie. Yeah. Melissa, question mark. For sure. Or whoever that is. Yeah, definitely. And not Jeff and not Misty.

No. Jeff is too focused right now on good karma to be casually killing people and candelit. stairwells. Mel or whomever has been haunting Sean's steps, I like that. Walter seems very probable to me. And again, the idea of Lottie either intentionally

or accidentally doing something that led to this. Or did the wilderness disclaimer, you know? Tune in two weeks from now to find out. Needle drop before we go? Oh, it had to be ace of base. No question. It's the cranberries for me.

Thank you to Steve Allman. John Richter. Arjuna Rangopal. Jomea Dineron. Mallory Rubin. Joanna Robinson. My favorite soft pretzel enthusiast.

Those little pearls aren't going to put in themselves, Joe. That's a thing I learned this episode. Absolutely disgusting. Thanks for leaving me with thoughts of loathed tapioca. We'll see you in two weeks from wear yellow jackets and one week for Daredevil. Bye.