How Did This Get Made? - The Legend of Billie Jean LIVE!

Episode Date: August 28, 2026

FAIR IS FAIR! Helen Slater and Christian Slater star in the 1985 cult classic The Legend of Billie Jean, a movie that caused Paul, Jason, and June to stand up in fierce debate for over ten minutes. LIVE from Largo in LA, the trio discuss why Billie Jean actually became famous, Lloyd's haunted house, Putter getting her period during a car chase, the realistic toy guns, Billie Jean's iconic haircut, how Pat Benatar hates this movie, and so much more. Plus, Jason reveals the strange place where he once hid a condom. Tune in to find out if you're Team Billie Jean or Team Belt Dad!   Buy our Billie Jean shirt or Pat Benatar Was Wrong shirt with all profits going to designer/2nd Opinion song singer Sabrina. • Go to hdtgm.com for tour dates, merch, FAQs, and more• Leave us a voicemail at speakpipe.com/hdtgm• Submit your Last Looks theme song here• Join our Discord at discord.gg/hdtgm• Buy merch at howdidthisgetmade.dashery.com/• Order Paul’s book about his childhood: Joyful Recollections of Trauma• Shop our new hat collection at podswag.com• Paul’s Discord: discord.gg/paulscheer• Paul’s YouTube page: youtube.com/paulscheer• Follow Paul on Letterboxd: letterboxd.com/paulscheer• Subscribe The Dark Web w/ Paul & Rob Huebel: youtube.com/@enterthedarkweb• Listen to Unspooled with Paul & Amy Nicholson: unspooledpodcast.com• Listen to The Deep Dive with June & Jessica St. Clair: thedeepdiveacademy.com/podcast• Instagram: @hdtgm, @paulscheer, & @junediane• Twitter: @hdtgm, @paulscheer• Jason is not on social media• Episode transcripts available at how-did-this-get-made.simplecast.com/episodesGet access to all the podcasts you love, music channels and radio shows with the SiriusXM App! Get 3 months free using the link: siriusxm.com/hdtgm Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Protect your nuts because we saw the legend of Billy Jean. So you know what that means. Talking about the legend of Billy Jean. Billy Jean walked so better off dead could run. I want my $2. Well, he would never have had that. If we didn't have, I want my $603. This movie, wow, wow, wow, when it came out, opening weekend, 14th place, 14th place for a major motion picture.

It was beaten by the re-release of E.T. Among 13 other films. But what is it about? Well, we open up on a Texas teenager, Billy Jean, played by Helen Slater, and her younger brother, Blank. Prince, Christian Slater, who are getting harassed by a local bully named Hubey? Right? Hubey busts up, Binks' motor scooter real good, so Billy Jean goes to Hubie's dad, Mr. Piat, and it's like, I demand justice, which to Billy Jean means getting paid $608 to fix a scooter.

But Mr. Piat is not a good dude at all. Instead of paying Billy Jean, he tries to sexually assault her. It's not, yeah, it's not fun. This is where the movie goes crazy. Right? She gets out of it. She kind of escapes. And then her brother shoots him seemingly in the neck, but I guess it's just the shoulder. And then they go on the run. Billy Jean binks and a couple of their pals, they go on the run from the cops.

And the media coverage is bananas, especially the radio coverage. And basically, Billy Jean turns into a young folk hero. We're going to get into the specifics of that because they, never really talk about why, but she just, she just shot a dude. And we're like, yeah, without the specifics, I'm on the other guy's side. Anyway, we'll break it all down. But first, let me bring on my co-os, please welcome to the stage, Mr. Jason Manzoukas. What's up, jerks? My brother. Scooter. Scooter. This is, okay, this is already, I have so much to say. I should hope so.

I saw throughout this movie. I saw this is hands down. I'm not kidding. The best movie we've ever done, exclamation. Oh, wait, wait, wait, June. Dude. I had to come out. Thanks gentlemen, June, Diane Raphio.

I had to come out. We're standing for this one, everybody. We're all standing. I had to come out. June is couching. I love this movie so much. Yeah! I want to start off with a public apology.

I'm sorry I had not. seen it till this afternoon. Yes! I've ever seen this. 40 years late. Had I seen this when it came out, I would be a different woman right now. I'd be so much better. I saw it when it came out. I became this person. That's what happened.

Does not, not results may vary. Results may vary. I can't believe what I saw. True greatness. This is one of the most important, I'm not kidding. Better than the Odyssey. This is one of the most... Release it in IMA!

It's one of the most important movies of our time. It's a due or die. This is a feminist manifestation. All these things are true. And also, whenever Pat Benatar introduces this song on stage, she says, this is from the worst movie ever made. That's... Wow, that's disappointing.

I don't know why we're doing it here. Because... I asked for it. Oh, I didn't know that, Jason. We were supposed to do something. something else, forgive me, I don't remember what. When we did Thraschen, Thrashen reminded me so much of this movie, of this movie is incredible. You were there, June, you are part of this conversation.

You know that June men in blacks herself after every episode. June just has one of those things, and she's like, okay, great, I'll see you guys later. I don't remember that. You know what? You know what? I honestly think I, okay, it's sort of coming back to me. But if you didn't know the movie, you wouldn't remember what. And also, I thought it was about a man.

Nope. Had I known? I never saw this movie because... What? I thought it was about Billy Jean King, the tennis star. And when I was a kid, I'm like, I'm not interested in tennis. Holy shit. I'm curious.

Before the... I'm certain everyone here watched it for the episode. Before this, how many people had seen the movie? Well, that's a lot. Okay. I see you, Gen X. I see you. This is the...

most Gen X movie I've ever seen. Kids unsupervised constantly taking the law into their own hands. This entire movie obeys kid logic at every turn. When the kids, I'm sorry to jump ahead, I guess we're not sitting tonight and I'm fine with it. We have not sat down. I have back surgery just so we could do this movie and I could stand throughout. When the kids start walking behind. Bynes Billy Jean one by one.

I was like, what the, and they said Kenny's in trouble, and then one by one, they all start walking with her. I was like, I can't handle this. Okay. And for me, that was a great moment for why you need proper insulation in your homes. Wow.

You're not going to hear those screams. You're not going to hear those screams that you can insulate those walls. There is so much child abuse in this movie, and I just want to be clear that, Paul, you are pro the parents. I'm just saying if you don't want neighbors

pop in their fucking face in your house while you're taking care of business If you don't want teen folk heroes Coming into your house Wow If you take off your belt and you don't want to use it Oh wow You don't want to be reprimanded about it

Then put some proper insulation in there Are you selling insulation? I may have a side deal With insulation 1-800 bonkers I was with, so I, one of my proudest moments as a parent is

that I, at a certain point in the beginning our oldest son, Gus, his 12, said, can I come in and watch it? And I thought, mm, okay. Because I did tell you, I said, you know, at the beginning of this movie, you said, is it okay? And I said, well, there is a sexual assault at the top of the film. Yes.

To see this movie through his eyes. Right? My work is done. No. I honestly feel like, my work is done. When the girl pulls up. Did it today. When the girl pulls up and opens the door and she has the Billy Jean haircut and earring, sobbing.

Uh-uh. Somming. I'll read. Every time I started to cry and or sob, I wrote it in my notes because it was happening so often, and I will read them out. And it is all of Act 3. All of Act 3 just sobbing. Me writing, the kids are supporting her. Here's what's so cool, though.

Okay, first of all. I've had a long week. I do want to put the breaks on some of this and just ask some questions, but let's continue. Yeah, sure. And I'm fine to answer all of them. Okay, great. With my feet, ten toes on the ground. And I'm fine to answer all of them.

And you're in heels in your standing. If you don't mind just because I feel like something is happening. And this is a real team Fred, team sanity situation. I don't want to be. You and I, June, are aligned completely on this. And Paul has already established an affinity for the parental point of youth. So scary. He always does.

The abusive pair. He always does. I'm Peter Coyote on this one. Oh, you wish you were Peter Coyote. Oh, I'm fucking Peter Coyote, man. Oh, you're doing stockwell at best. I'm walking both sides. I'm going to the mini golf thing.

Here's the thing, people. All right, it takes a long time before they reveal that this owner, Mr. Piaz, a bad dude. As far as anyone knows. No, what are you talking about? What are you talking about? Wait, wait, wait, wait. The movie is high stakes in me.

He tries to rape her in minutes. Hold on. Hold on. All I'm saying is, hold on. You're acting like, what are you talking? Paul, Paul? Paul. What I was going, wow, I feel like I'm being Billy Jane spain to. Billy Jane. What I'm saying is this. She becomes a folk hero at a point before the videotape is released. All we know is that for what every. Everyone knows is a young child shot a shop owner in the in this shoulder and they're like, yes. So that to me was a like that.

You've misunderstood the film entirely. Why didn't you like it? Because it's like we're why are we celebrating? So you didn't think he should have been shot? I did. But no one knows any of those reasons unless he's out there sexually assaulting everyone in the greater Texas area. So unless that's the case, you're comfortable with what he did in this instance. No, I don't want to be, I'm just saying

Get that narrative out to the media Earlier so she can become a teen hero Okay, your problem is you're all about the media man She's all about the people bro But what are the people There is fair Let me be scared Well then you'll be surprised to know

That that that young boy that that young boy she walked in. How does she know what happened? What do you mean? With the dad. How do we know that the boy wasn't doing that?

He's cowering behind a couch. Because he's afraid of her. Wait, Kenny? You are afraid of her. So you are doubling down? Paul, stop. I'm just saying, don't jump to conclusions. We don't know.

What conclusions? Well, maybe he was beating his dad. And then he's like, oh shit, Billy Jr. Let me go hide because we don't know the full. Full story. Wow. Wow.

No, no. I enjoyed this movie. There are some logic issues in it. None. That are crazy. Where? Wrong. Wrong.

They are. Sit down. What you're confused about. Just so listeners know, now is the moment in the show where we finally took a seat. Winded and sore. You are getting caught up in the reality. of like what she did and what Christian Slater, her little brother did, and why people, like the sort of facts around that, what you are missing entirely.

I'm getting it. Entirely is how she was standing in for this story was standing in for so many feelings of helplessness and powerlessness and children wanting to be heard and wanting to be seen by adults who were dismissing them and that rage being built. up. That is what she was inspiring in all of them. It didn't matter if it was true or not. That was beside the point. And that's what I mean

when I say the movie only is interested in the children's point of view. We almost never cut to Billy Jean and Binks's mom, for example. We almost never are with Dean Stockwell. We rarely are with Peter Coyote. I wish you got a little bit more

Dean. Get some Dean machine out there. But if you'd seen this movie about adults, but if you'd seen this movie when you were a kid, or if you understood the true children's point of you, like June does. Team Fred all the way. This, like, yeah, no, crazy moves are made because

they're being made by teenagers, and that's what's great about it. Here's the other thing. It says not the teenager crazy moves. Who keeps a gun in the register? Like, where would you even fit that? It doesn't fit in the $20 bill slot. It seems like

that should, like, I didn't understand the register machina. That makes total sense. To me, someone's trying to rob you? Yeah, but where do you put it? That was a thick gun. How many slots? Where's the money?

Here's the, and I didn't think this was a logic issue because I did understand why he did it because children's brains aren't fully developed. But the fact that Christian Slater's defense was like, well, he told me it wasn't loaded. It's like, that still doesn't explain the why you pulled the trigger. Well, I also make an effort to be like, he doesn't pull the trigger here. he's like when he's like wait it's really not loaded he shoots him like I thought that I thought that man was shot in the neck now he's shot in the shoulder he seems to go back to work immediately and not only back to work but thriving at work and he's like I lost two pints of blood in the grand scheme of things I'm like you got off pretty well you don't even seem injured in any way I'm worried that his son is drinking a beer is his son of legal age because if his son What are you talking about? Of course he's not of legal age.

He's a bully drinking beer. Did you not drink a beer until you were 21? Did you not drink a beer? I drank some Zimas. No, but no, I get that he is drinking unlawfully, but he comes into his dad's store with a beer. Like he's drinking in front of his dad. It's Texas, baby.

It is Texas. It's Texas in the 80s. It's wild. It's the frontier. I couldn't figure out the same. stereotypes. So there's southern or they Texas? Then I found out there's a thing called Texas Riviera, which I guess is both.

And now I'm psyched. Too many stereotypes for me. I am shocked that you have problems with this movie. No, I don't have problems with it. You are... You do, Paul. I have to bring us down to reality because

I feel like, you know, look, there are things going on here that undercut the coolness of what is going on. Right? There are moments like, well, what do you think about this? The minute that girl gets a period. Great scene. Putter?

Great scene. Truly. And I'm just going to say this before you go into whatever possible critique you could have of that. I've never, that scene made me cry. I've never seen in a movie, a young woman get her period like that. And another a little bit older woman. It says beautiful. Young woman.

Take care of her in that way. Well, then why does she immediately ask when can she get a diaphragm? That felt to me like a jump too far. Like that, I don't know. I'm not a woman. Why? The minute I have my period, I'm like, can I get a diaphragm? So, like, you want to control her body?

I don't think it's that weird. You want to control her body? You're right, Paul. She shouldn't have safe sex. I want her not safe sex. Keep diaphragms. I'm going to be honest. Keep contraceptives away from women.

I'm going to be honest, that seemed to me, I thought this. is revolutionary, this is mandatory viewing for every young person. I can't believe I'm seeing. Not only that. Not only that, but what's to me so revelatory about this movie and incredible about

this movie is that beautiful, heartfelt scene takes place at the end of a car chase where they have been shot at. So they are shot at. There is a suspenseful car chase. They get away from a red neck in a truck shooting at

teenagers, they get away, and Putter is revealed to have gotten her period, and they stop down to comfort her, to talk to her. And I was like, this is incredible. The movie works. She's like, Wayne, can I. So now she's like, now I guess I can get pregnant, so I better get a diaphragm. Yes. Yes. Good for her. Because she has been having sex. What do you mean? You're so, you're so weird, man. You are so fucking weird. So you thought that was her request for diaphragm is because she's already having sex? She's like, I got to protect myself now before it wasn't a big deal. Now I guess I can't

get pregnant. So, wow, so that's where you went. That's where you went with her line. Wow. I'm just saying... There's so many ways to read that line. No, one. No, there's so many ways to read that line. This is

this is diaphragm propaganda thrown in our face time and time again. One way is like she doesn't even really know what a diaphragm is and she's just like oh I know now I have my period do I get a diaphragm that's first of all a totally reasonable thing for a young woman to say another possibility though is that yes she is interested in having sex and now she is worried about getting pregnant and so she does wonder if she can get a diaphragm now I'll be honest another totally reasonable reading

I had a condom for years before I ever used it just to have it just to have it just in case something jumped off just one Just one. Just one. In my checks box. Not checks mixed. Checks like my, like a... Oh, boy, this is worse.

Like my box of checks, like from the bank. Oh. How old were you? Well, you were going to pay for it. So, yeah, you're getting a checkout and you're getting your condom out. It's a good place to have it. I have a lot of follow-up questions. How old were you that you had, like, a bank account in checks? Old enough that I still wasn't even said.

Okay, I'm just... I mean, like mid-teens? What were you writing checks for? Oh, I was writing checks constantly. What? Are you kidding? Are you kidding? I didn't write a check till I was like 21.

Wow. I had a checkbook on me at all times. We'd write checks at the grocery store. You write checks. Never, no, I was a latchkey kid. I definitely wrote a check as a latched kid. My parents wrote checks. Give me houselights for just a second.

Who's Jen X here? Who's to tell? I'm right. Are we writing checks? No, no, no, no, no. No, no, no, no. Wait, are you writing checks as children? As a 20-year-old.

Not as children. At 15, 16. I wasn't writing checks at 15. I had a summer job. I had a checking account and I paid for shit. I think you just really wanted to write checks. Fair is fair. All I will say is that, you know,

that Binks, Binks does, I believe. believe, you know, he's kind of examining that gun and in the examination of the gun, the trigger goes off, right? It's a, it's a tragic moment. And at that moment, I do believe there's like, oh my God, we just shot this man. We got to leave town. Very Texas. So I love it. Also, very kid. A hundred percent. Right. Let's run away from what we did. Now, if you tell me that at that moment makes Binks go, I'm never going to handle a gun again because I'm nervous about it. This motherfucker starts pulling gun. guns all the time.

Like he saw the damage, right? He's like, oh, thank God. Oh, thank God. The guy, he's okay. He's not even in fair condition. He's in good condition. The radio DJ's here. The radio DJ is on the scene. How did the fucking radio guy get there within minutes? It's a local radio station. He's at the beach at the end. These are nitpicks.

All right. I loved how much local radio was part of the narrative. But the narrative still. is man shot by boy and everyone's like yeah boy let's go because now now look she shoots him I actually think this movie is is so wildly ahead of it Simon so many different ways right right so she shoot sorry the boy shoots the man yeah we have a typical boy man woman scene and they have a boy man shooting scene with woman watching now why why in that moment, and this is maybe where I am like,

I am a little bit confused and I could have missed this, why is Billy Jean getting all of like the press? Because the boy shot the man. Billy was there watching. Huh. They don't show the boy's image. They go like, what a young schoolboy. And here's it.

Oh, I know why. I know what actually. So the rage of what's the guy's name? Hubey's dad. Hubey's dad. The rapist. Let's call him the rapist. The rapist.

Yeah. So I didn't question that because I was like he hates her so much. Yeah. His son hates her so much that that is the narrative of that moment, that she caused this. When they're in the yearbook. They're looking at their pictures in the yearbook. And it's like she caused this. She caused this because she didn't have sex with him.

Right. It is her fault. And so that is sort of the narrative that's presenting. to the press and then he doesn't want to say to the press like so you think on some level he said she shot me because he's more nervous that she could come out and say the thing he tried to rape me yeah right saying she shot me she had me shot or she shot me basically i mean that guy is a dirtbag

and and and and this is oh he's much worse than a dirtbag oh he's just i mean i'm i have no i have i don't like mr pott i do think what i'll say about him great business sense I mean, in the world before social media. Oh, yeah. Those posters are great. They're very kind of like cool. They're very like Obama-esque like Hope, you know, it's like.

I have to be honest. I have to be honest. I was watching the movie and it took everything. Like, I want that merch more than I want. I think that we have to make that merch if it doesn't exist. I want every bit of it. I want every. It was like when we went to see Joni Mitchell and I was like,

how do I buy everything that's available? Yes, and the answer was you couldn't because they wouldn't let you because I got to the front of that line and they said you can only have one of these shirts, one of these, and a tote bag. Or a beret, which I bought. I did get the beret. I'm not kidding. I just love the design of this. Absolutely. I love the design of all of those hats, the hats, the t-shirts, everything, the posters.

When you talk about local business coming together to support, he's getting the, he's getting the. the artisans from the community. What style do you have? Great, you make the posters. You make the hats. It started as him hanging a sign to say, have you seen her? She needs to be busted. And then teenagers are coming to be like, I want that.

She's an icon to me. And it's a great scene because he's like, these kids, you got to get him. I hate these kids. And the kids, it's not for sale. And I'll give you more. And then he's like, okay, now it is for sale. And then he scales up immediately. So fast.

that it seems like he would be actually okay with her staying on the run to make more money. It's a money made. The longer she's on the lamb and loose, the posters are moving, all right? What I love about this movie is it starts immediately. Before the opening credits are done, the bike is ruined and we are in motion. So it is, we're being rocketed through all of these elements because what I love about it is, it is yes it is this kids on the run movie but then it's

also like this weird like the chunk it's all vignettes right and the vignette where they go into the abandoned house what they think is the abandoned house and it's Lloyd's house this is one of the most and again I love that actor I love their relationship I love the way he supports her why should I do

well you're Billy Jean love all that I'm on it but I do have some questions about this house what was he setting up why were there so many cameras and what was the plan for the night Because it seems like... For him or for him? It seems like he had set up a haunted house for one

that he was not expecting visitors to come into. I mean, what luck? And I'll be honest. If you don't mind, I'll be honest. Paul, this seems like something you would have done. Jason? Set up on a Friday night, set up in your house, a haunted house for one.

And then, God damn it, if the most beautiful... beautiful woman didn't just walk through the door to eat your chocolate cake and get chased around by you. Everything about that is true, except for the beautiful woman coming into my house. I did, at many times, I had blow up skeletons. I set them around my kitchen table. I had some shrunken heads that would hang from the wall. What? I was a big fan of cobwebs.

So I was putting that all up in the house on a Friday night. Not for the episode. A big fan of cobwebs, Paul Sheard's shirt. Big fan of, so I had, I had. I was, I'm there. I'm doing, I'm doing haunted house. But so the cameras, I'll be kind and say the cameras are to kind of give us a sense that his dad may be up to some shady shit. Who knows?

Because the cameras. I think the dad was, was checking on him. So the dad's watching those, that live feed? No, I think it's Lloyd. I don't think he's watching it in that moment. I think it's Lloyd, like spying on the house. Okay. For what purpose?

Because he's like, I don't know, he's got the equipment. Okay. Okay, so then the other question is, was that food a trap? Was that a hot girl trap? Like, if we put enough chicken in the window, girls will come in and eat it. If it had been on a window sill and if putters had been like, whoop. They do kind of, they do kind of see it and they go in and they have the best sign of all time, which is rich food isn't supposed to taste like what it is. Yeah.

Great line. I love that. the class warfare depicted in this movie. I love that it is they are constantly being dismissed because they are trailer trash they are and it's all the rich people who are like fuck you fuck them

they don't deserve the benefit of the doubt Dean Stockwell basically being like shoot him fucking shoot him who cares. The sharpshooters coming in and not just one multiple sharpshooters to kill someone who has not killed anyone who has done no violence

Well, there's also, there's an incredible moment. This is a beautiful film. There's an incredible moment at the police station when she first goes to report that her brother's bike has been assaulted. I mean, it was really something very terrible happened to that bike. And she wants it back. And him. And, and Binks.

Binks gets his ass kick. She goes to report to the cop and he says, I promise you, if that bike's not on your front lawn in two days, and she goes, I don't have a front lawn. I'm, I live in. I was about to say Widows Bay, and I know that's not right. But whatever the trailer park is. Take us back to the bay.

Whatever the trailer. She said, I live in the trailer park. And he sort of recognizes it and readjust. And I was like, wow, this movie is way more than you think it is. All I'm thinking is this. All I'm thinking is this. This is seriously what I'm thinking. Peter Coyote.

worked for the government. And he fucking finds out, hey, there's a disturbance at this fucking house in California. You got to go. Gets involved in the whole E.T. thing. He's like, you know what? I'm out. I am out of this business.

I don't want to terrorize kids anymore. I fucking did that. I fucking killed their dog alien. I'm upset. I'm moving to Texas. I'm going to work a desk job. He gets there, and then she walks in the door. He's like, fuck, here I go. I'm fucking dressed.

Every time I think I'm back out, Every time I'm out, these fucking kids are pulling me back in to their bullshit. And I'm looking at Peter Coyer. He's like, I should have hung up those keys. I should have gotten out. And I'm looking at Peter Coyote. I think this is a sequel to E.T. For Peter Coyote's character, is what I'm saying.

I liked also that he sussed everything that was going on with her. And then when he's talking to Hubey's dad, he also immediately susses out that he was a sketchball to her. Yes. When he's like, she's like, she's an attractive woman or a girl or something. You know what I mean? Like he's like also gets a guy's a guy's a woman. When I say I like Peter Coyote before everyone's like, now we're talking about Peter Coyote.

Because it was the first thing you said. The best, one of the best characters of the movie, because he's the bridge. He is a great character. Kids to adults. See, there it is. He wants the movie to be about adults. Here's the only reading.

We kids got to stick up for the rest of the kids, right? No. No, what I actually, no, what I love about this movie is every adult is bad, Except for Peter Gaiard. Every adult is, all right, a couple in that aren't. I don't think their belt is okay, I guess. I don't think their mom is doing the best she can. But I will say, there is.

I love when the mom was getting ready for a date. And she, at first I thought she put a white mouse down her blouse. And then I realized she was just, everybody was so sweaty. Also the sweat, the heat. The way that it was portrayed. Beautiful. And the way they talk about, they talk about Vermont, like it's some promise land. It's hilarious.

I do. I do want to just take a moment to talk about Vermont because I get it. Paul's doing his nitpick stance now. I get it. It's the 80s. We don't, we have encyclopedias. We can't see everything. This movie does posit though.

Binks gets shot, obviously, later in the movie. When we're in Vermont at the end, they're in knee-deep snow in Vermont. Now, I know climate change is real, but I feel like we're in the dead of summer and he's still got that cast on. I'm like, it's not snowing in Vermont in August. Come on, guys.

Okay. I want the audience at home to recognize that this audience didn't give that anything. You know what? Because we know that they earned that snow every inch of it. Snow. Fair is fair. Fair is fair. Fair is fair.

I'm going to give you, Paul. Snow is just white heat. I'm going to give you, Paul, what you seem to want and need, which is an adult reading of the movie or an adult framework or lens through which to look at it. I see it as a kid movie. Okay. Because there is one. Which is right.

That's absolutely right, which is interesting. But I will give you actually an adult lens because I think this is such a fair reading of the movie. And there were many times during it, I was reading the movie this way, which was about motherhood. Now, she is a mother figure to her younger brother, and she is taking care of his mistakes left and right and trying to do right by him because he is continually getting them into trouble. And at a certain, escalating, pulling that gun out too many times. At a certain point, as so many mothers can relate to this, she does fucking lose it. And I was like, absolutely, I understand this. you've gone insane because you are over, you know, worked and tired and all of it.

And I was like, this is a beautiful portrayal of an older sister, but is really about a mother figure. Well, I'll get, to me, I agree. And the note that I made in this was I loved their found family of misfit kids who run away together and are on the road. And it reminded me of Red Dawn and the Wolverines. and that group of teenagers who have to come together and be their own version of the family. Never saw. Never seen Red Dawn? No.

Put it on the list. Put it on the list. I saw Rising Sun with Sean Connery and, uh... Oh, I think you... Oh, can we do Red Dawn for the show, please? I mean, but that's a good movie. So is this. So is this.

I didn't understand why we were doing it. I will just say this. When she walks into Kenny's house, she did what again, so many women, adult women do, which is I know a child is hurting and I don't know what to do and what is expected of me there and what's so beautiful about that scene is she's scared and she doesn't know what's going to happen and she does it anyway. It's not like she always acts like a badass or always.

She's not, this is what's so cool about the movie. She is not a badass. Nope. She is meeting these moments in the best way she can. can and she has a kind heart and she's doing the best she can but this is not a superhero well every scene she's trying to end the chaos that is spirally not of control and take care of the younger people what i think i mean look now to go not funny for a moment i'll say what i think is really interesting about this is a lot of the times when we see strong women the idea is that they'll kick somebody's ass right

so if that movie that scene is in a movie right now she'd go in there and beat the fuck out of this old man And he'd be like, never touch that kid again. But she doesn't. She just kind of looks at him and stares at him. And she is scared in that moment. Right. But he also knows, like, I've been caught. Like, just by being seen, he's been caught, which is what she's doing over there.

And I also think, you know, you have a lot of moments here where an older woman is looking out for a younger boy, which is very much not the case in any 80s movie where it's always like the older brothers looking out for the younger sister. So that's cool. But now I'll go back to my other part of this movie where I go, now let me ask you. this. No. This is a subversive tale. This is new. This is a revolutionary narrative. But it's afraid of its own self. They go to the fucking mall.

Here's a radio guy out talking to people. And they're like, huh, how do we drill in feminism? And he goes, well, that's a woman's perspective. Yeah, no shit. You interviewed a woman. There is like a woman's berbic. Well, but I think that is relevant to the times this movie was. were the questions that were being asked. Where you could dismiss a woman's perspective?

You think he was dismissing it? I thought he was like underlining it for the audience. Like I felt like somebody, like I was like a studio note. Like, let's make sure that we are as like it's a feminist movie. Absolutely. I can't imagine that was a studio note in any. This movie I think is just making like its own rules. Really?

All right. Let's hear it. Well, I mean, I mean, I don't. See, now he's going to go to his nose. No, no, I won't go to my notes. I'll just tell you that you'll be upset. I'll reveal it later. Oh, great.

But no. Here's what I will say. This director who came in, I think, fought very hard to unpack a script that was very 80s. And I think that these are all the little move that he did that makes her strong. And I think, look, honestly, it's $600 that much. And I did do some research. And it's about $1,860 now in, you know. And fair is fair.

It could have been $34. For a kid, how old is Christian flavor in this movie? I want my $2. $2. Wait, but Paul, it sounds like you're saying that like it's a low amount. Yeah, what are you saying? Are you saying, I'm just saying that's not much money? I think that Mr. Piat should have paid it.

And just to go back to her not being extraordinary and how that was such a powerful choice, even when she changes into her... Joan of Arc? Yes, when she becomes John of Arc. When she cuts her hair and the first shot is in the reflection, of the pool. I was like,

this is cinema. Now, this is... I could not handle it. This is a very controversial moment. The haircut. Why? Because this movie was made by Peter Gruber, I believe,

the producer, who was like Barbara Streisand. John Roberts, right? John Peters and Peter Gruber. Right, and one of them was a hairdresser who became like the head of a studio. John Peters. Right, so our producer, right?

So... He is mechanical spider in Wild Wild West. Yes. That's John Peter. So the director and the actors felt like she should have cut her own hair. It should not have been this stylized or cool. Now, I will argue that I thought when she came out, it was a very cool moment. And I did not see that reading of it.

But he was so obsessed with the hair and the haircut. And that people were like, oh, you make her more masculine to come. Like, there's a lot of talk about the hair. This haircut reveal, like, honestly... The best reveal I've ever seen in the film. The single greatest haircut ever. The Rachel can get fucked as far as I'm concerned. I couldn't believe it.

And this... You're talking about Jennifer Anderson's haircut and movie cake? Yes. Not only that. Really deep. But the one-two punch of this and Mary Stewart Masters in short blonde bob in... Oh, some kind of wonderful. Some kind of wonderful.

Locked in a type for me that I'm... I was like, rebel girl short hair plays drums. Yeah. Crazy. Yardley Smith would not cut her hair for the movie. She's like, I will never do that haircut. That's all wig. Okay.

So, so. I'm okay with that. I'm fine at that. But so at the, are you saying that she wanted to, that Hanslider wanted to, the haircut to look more jagged and like she had cut it herself? I think that the, a lot of the people involved were like, we want her to take scissors to her own hair and cut it to look. like Joe, like the way, like, so that it looked like Joan of Arc.

So, yeah, like, it just was like, not, not cool. Right. Yes. And, and I think that. Because it looks cool as it. It looks, well, it looks like she went to a fucking salon. Like, I mean, and, and by the way, I'm not picking up on that. That's in my research afterwards.

I was like, no, I'm like, this is cool. But I'm also on board for the movie. A hundred. I'm in the bag for the movie. So, and so are they. Right. I think they are too. I think they're like, oh, you're being so true to the moment.

Because I do think that that scene is also like, like the sex scene that's not a sex scene. when they're in the the final hole of the mini-gogh? I don't know where they're living, but they seem to be living in the final hole. I don't like you saying the final hole repeatedly concerning what goes on in that castle. It feels like it's the final hole.

But here's the interesting thing about the movie. And this is why... That's where you had the most bed space. Even though I loved... I love that this movie is about children. I did strongly connect to it as a piece about motherhood because it wasn't... There was no teen sexual...

sexuality in here. There was no, the chemistry between the two of them was sweet at best, but it never felt like... Horny. No. In a way that it's about that.

Did you think it was sexy? Then there were other times I was like, oh, I think this, I think she is a lesbian and there's chemistry between, I'm serious, but there's another like very queer reading of the movie where it's like, oh no, she's,

there was something going on. There's one moment where she's looking at one of those girls who, that when she's in like the underground railroad of Billy Jean, and then she... I cried. And then she's taken away.

There's a very intense moment between two of them. And I was like, oh, is this why her chemistry with what's his face with Lloyd? Is very kind and very lovely and I love his relationship to her? But it is not sexual.

It's not. I agree. But do you think that he is sexy? Yeah. I actually thought he played that really well because I feel like that is the right person for her to be attracted.

acted to in the sense that he is not like a straight up, like, hunky 80s guy. What I also liked about it is she, even while accumulating people along the way, she remains like the leader of the whole group, you know, like it's not like some guy comes in and is like, okay, you love me now, so I'm the guy. Here's the thing that I was upset about. This could have been shitty, you know. I don't know who said that, but I think it was Alfred Hitchcock. It says when you establish a wolfman mask in the first act, you have to bear it.

off in the third act. Why don't we get that Wolfman mask in the third act? Here's my my version of that is if you twice hit on the head that he needs to take asthma pills, mustn't there be a moment in the third act where he has an asthma attack

and needs attention? Now I will also say... But I didn't, I didn't care. I didn't care. It's a flaw. It's a flaw. I will say to June's point, the queer reading of the movie, I think you could further it by saying, then by having

Bing's dressed up as a woman, that's a very powerful moment too. Very powerful moment. But then he's looking really nilly with that gun. Again, it's not about the gun. It's not about the gun. He gets shot because he is in women's clothing. Or, okay, can I say? I'm serious. That is why

there's something very homophobic about what's happening in that moment and like where their masculinity is like, everybody is thrown into like masculine chaos. all of the men of this community. Because they're waving around their guns.

Yes, and that is why they shoot him. It is not because they think he's a real, he is a real threat with that gun. Well, they've already been told Binks' gun isn't real. Yes. They've been told, without a shadow of a doubt, Binks' gun is not real. I know I'm going to take heat for this.

Uh-oh. You can just pot our mics down. But man, oh man. They don't make fake guns like they used to. I, I... Well, it did make me think, I agree, and it did make me think, because of, like, what you're saying, like, he's flashing it around. Guns were so prominent.

I had a little gun in my belt all the time. I had guns. In the back of my, in the back like Magnum, a gun. Yeah, I had guns all over my house. I had them in a drawer, and then there was a moment where I liked a girl and I was like I have to throw away my boy things to become a man

and I remember collecting all my guns and walking out to the dumpster behind my apartment building. This feels very emotionally manipulated towards me. Wait, was that girl June? Was that girl June? No, but I'm feeling for you. I know and I was like and I, but I got all my guns together

but I had so many guns and none of them had any orange on them in any way. So much so that my, My mom would tell me a story that... Look, I don't know. Maybe my parents are liars, but the story I want to believe as being true. I can't wait to read your mom's book. That I had left a gun on the back seat of my grandfather's car.

And the cops came into a restaurant in which he was eating and pulled a gun on him thinking that he had a gun out in his car. And then he had to explain he was his grandfathers. grandson's gun. And all I'm saying is, those guns are fun. Well, I will say, so I watched this with our oldest son and that part, he was like, but why, why were the guns in that store? And I was like, oh, he's like, isn't it a toy store? And I was like, yeah, it is. He's like, but, but like, why were they selling guns there? And I was like, those are toy guns. And he's like, but they don't look like nerf guns. I'm like, they're not

Nerf guns. So it was a real, he was blown away by those guns. And what was what you prized so much about them was their authentic look? They looked really real. You know, that, that, I had a Walter P.P.K. That looked great. It was a James Bond gun. Now, are you two going to start some sort of a campaign to bring back realistic children's guns? Why not?

Yes. Absolutely. But I can tell you that every one of these movies fucked up. How did this get made guns? We are making guns for. Realistic looking toy guns. From our favorite out of this game. Podcast.

I loved, I loved that Lloyd's house has a water slide into the pool. And they all go, this is what's great about the movie is that, yes, it is like, you start the movie and it's like, it jumps in straight away. He tries to rape her. He gets shot. They're on the run. They are, they do, they go on so many different things. Then they get to Lloyd's house and it stops down and it almost becomes a john.

Hugh's movie for a little while. Except she never goes on the slide. That's what I was about to say. That he gets down there, Lloyd, and he looks up and she's rapturously watching Joan of Arc. And the rest of the movie is her becoming Joan of Arc. And then they burn an effigy of her at the end. And I was like, this is cinema.

It's crazy. But all I could think of while there was a powerful moment was all those local artisans, all their work destroyed. All those adults? All those adults being harmed? I think that I look, everything I know about Mr. Piat,

all I think about Mr. Piat is that he is using the local youth art scene to his advantage. Those are great kids. That's a young shepherd fairy out there who got abused by Mr. Piot. Yeah, he's going to rape you one way or the other. And that's true because that's, no, no, no, because that was why.

That is not a pull quote you want out there. Yes, but he is right. Right, and that's what's so sophisticated about the movie, is that he's not a mustache twirly villain. He is... He does have a mustache, but he is victimizing this young woman and then making money off of her image. It's so fast.

I'll be thinking about it for a long time. I loved all of... This is so... And I know I'm a broken record apologies, but I love how much the movie exists just from the children's point of view, including when they make the videotape, they send like a five-year-old into the police station.

My favorite moment. And by the way, though. And then he watches it with them. I was like, fuck, yes. But didn't you feel like when they said, didn't you feel like when they said who gave this to you, that he just, he knew, but he wasn't going to tell them. And that was, that kid's a great actor.

Everything. Because they all hang out at the headquarters of the Billie Jean Underground Railroad. I didn't know what that. place was, but I loved it regardless. I love it. I want to watch her tape. This is her video. Great. Here we go. So hot.

I'm Billy Gene Davy. Can you pause? Can you pause? This is just a wet suit. She cut the sleeves off of the single dangly earring. This is actual sexuality right here. This is my mind exploding as a As you're saying it, I'm seeing it, but I thought that was a pair of glasses that she fashioned into an earring.

No. I thought she popped out the lenses and she's like, earring. I'm assuming the armband is what is the sleeve that she cut off? I'm not sure, but it's the color match. The only thing I was upset by, because I was so taken with this too, but then I was like, did Katie Perry, like, model her entire brand and look off of this? I could get lost in Helen Slater's eyes. Those beautiful pools of green. I, aye, aye, aye.

I do feel bad because Helen Slater is great and she had Supergirl, which we did on the show, and this. And I'm like... My favorite performance, and she means a lot to me from City Slickers. Yes. Thank you.

That is such a beautiful performance. Recently just got her doctorate in mythology. No surprise. but let's just watch the tape because I do have a couple of questions. And Helen Slater and Christian Slater, unrelated. Unrelated. Unrelated. Christian Slater thought it would be so cool to marry her because then they wouldn't have to change names.

Okay. Well, also because she's absolutely gorgeous. Sure. I'm not a liar. I'm not a thief. And neither is my brother. Hello, Mom. Sorry, that's him.

Mom. I don't know one will be coming home. But we love you. I know people are making up stories about us. Don't you believe them? As for you, Mr. Piant, you are so sleazy. Yay! You think that you can do anything you want and then lie about it,

and we just have to take it, because what are we? Just a bunch of kids. Well, not this time. From now while we're doing this our way. I want to pause it for one second. I guess the thing that was frustrating to me is I'm going through the kid point of view. You're mad, you've been wronged, you're on the run,

this motherfucker at a gas station saying that you rob him. You didn't fucking rob him. Right, so that's fine. But why is she respecting Mr. Piet, whatever the fuck his name is, by not saying, this guy tried to rape me. Why do we hide that away? I'm like, just say it.

Say it so everyone hears it. It's so like under the table. I think it was maybe it was that. Like, we never is fully said out loud. And it's like, why are you protecting this month? She says it at the end. She says it at the end. She says it at the end in front of everybody.

Right. She does, she calls him sleazy in this. Right. She does not say it in the video. But here's on saying, you want to get an army. You say this guy tried to rape me and he did. I don't know if you get an army. I don't think if you're from the, in the trailer park in 1980, whatever.

My reading of it is just that she's, it's not even, that's not even available to her. To say that. To say that because she's not worried about her own needs in that way. So I go back to her as a caretie. because she is trying to get her brother's bike. Right. So she, this may, this might have happened to her numerous times. Like, or like she might have had a lot of creepy guys. So that's like not the lead story.

The lead story is that, yeah, this guy got shot because. And at the beginning, they do a, I mean, the bare minimum of a little bit of work where Hughby and his friends are multiple times bullying and harassing them. Right. Yeah, there's a lot. There's a reading to say that like when maybe in that harassment that he may have died. It could be a Jacob's Ladder situation. all through Blinks.

Wait, who could have died? Blinks. Binks. Binks. Wait, who's blinks? Jar Jar Blinks? Jar Jarlenex? Jor Jolns.

The senator from Nabilu? Here's what I... Admiral Piot from Star Wars? It's a trap. I wanted to know more about what happened to the dad. Did what... We just know what we know. We don't ask those questions on the Texas Riviera.

He went out to mine oil on a deep-seat... He was a man. He was a landman. He's a land man out in Texas. But that's a part of why I think it goes back to your question of like, why didn't she saying anything about this guy? Because it seemed to me from everything, the way she's been interacting with the teenage boys, the way she's been interacting with like the lore around her father seems like

a dead beat, that men are, it's not even to be dealt with. They are who they are. And she has her head down and is trying to live her life. I think that's true. I think another reading on it is, I think all of the children in this movie operate from the point of view of we will not be believed. Like our stories will not be,

adults control our lives and we will not be, justice will not be happening for us. And how cool would it have been in the final scene for that dude with the fucking belt, the child abuser, to be like, and I got one final belt weapon coming up for you. And he fucking. gets in there for a final scene.

To who? To who? To the man, to Mr. Piac. Not her. I'm not a fucking sick old crazy person. I'm just saying, I'm just saying. They all, you've primed them. I know.

To think that that's what you want. No, no, no, no. What I wanted to be? How great would it have been if finally belt guy gets to punish Billy G. I would have like, I would have like. Because finally someone's got to keep these kids in line. Why not belt dad? I would have like this.

I would have. Pro Belt Dad, and you are ending pro belt dad. I would have liked Belt Dad to be like this. Watching that video on TV, he's like, yeah. Fuck, yeah, Billy Jean. And then he goes, I'm going to find, I'm going to go to that beach, and I'm going to now be a part of the Army. I'm not a child anymore, but maybe I'm acting like a child

because I don't know how to actually verbalize how to treat a child, so I'm not an adult, so I'm fucking, I got to take out my anger on an adult. I'm so mad at my job. and then he goes there. You think Belk Dad has a job? He's off the job because his wife left him and he's taking it all out of his son. He's taking it all out of his son

because his wife is fucking some guy at the bar that she works out. So it's the woman's problem? No. He's a single dad. He doesn't have the tools. When Gus and I were watching this part with Belts guy, we were screaming at the TV,

kill him, kill him. Oh, I loved when the day dad first starts yelling at Billy Jean. Then he looks and all the kids are in the window. Right? It's an amazing. It's amazing. It's like weapons.

It was like, whoa, shit, the kids are here. Let's go to the audience because I know they probably all agree with me. No, all right, everybody, welcome to the part where you remember, you know, this is a show. You don't have to attack me. But we're going to talk about, we're going to talk about Billy Jean. We're going to ask you or answer your questions. I go, let's see what we got here. Hi, I have a question all the way back here.

What's your name? I'm Kristen. First, I want to let June know. The reason that Binks' dad is not there is because they mentioned he's dead. They got the bike from the insurance. It's a very throwaway line in that. But my question is, why did they, when they were announcing what the car they were in? Why did no one ever mention, hey, we're looking for a car that has a giant trailer park.

Yes. Yeah. I did wonder about that. The car is so identifying, and they don't seem to be going far from Corpus, Christy at all. They seem to be, they really do seem to be, one of the things I did love about it, and like, I love that kid logic of it. There's a scene where they go, they're in a late model sedan, and she's like,

late model my ass. It's like, I didn't know what, yeah, the station wagon is. I love, and we talked about it a little bit in the part where they do the car chase, and then it goes straight into putter getting her period. The same thing is, like, they shoot Mr. Rapist guy, they jump in the car, they go away, and she immediately pulls into a gas station, because she's got to get gas or her dad's going to be mad?

And I was like, yes, this is kid logic. It's like, what, fuck, we just shot somebody, but my dad's going to be mad if I don't get gas. Go, go, go, go, go. All right, your name of your question. Evan, and if the whole point of the revolution is to kind of revolt against the rapist actions, then why are they buying T-shirts from him?

They don't know. They don't know. They don't know. The people buying the merch didn't know that he was the villain. Right. When Billy G- that is the culmination. But what do they think he is?

Because that's the question that I have. What could he have been? He was shot, so he's like, I'm profiteering off of her. Like, what is his point of view? He's like, get her, but also buy this merch. I don't get what, like, where the connection is. Like, you're buying it from the victim who is using the person who heard. It's a weird.

Does anybody out here want to get Paul while he's out there? But I mean, but I do. I mean, the lot, I get the idea of like, he's profited. He's the victim. He's the victim. That's really interesting. No, no, no, no, no. Hold on. To everybody in, we can all agree that everybody sees him as the victim.

He was shot by this person. But yet, his store is packed. He's selling tons of merch. Well, maybe it's, maybe it's sort of sending up, like, consumer's culture and how we just, we will buy. So it's a rhetorical take. I do think the point is valid. John Wilkes booth selling Lincoln hats. They do know.

They do know. They don't know he's a rapist, but they do know he was shot by them. Right. Right. And so. But we're rallying around her. So if we're rallying around her, he is bad. Yeah.

I, I'm sorry. I think that he is profiting off of her because he is saying this person shot me. All right. That's the thing. I think he's kind of changed his narrative. And we see it in the moment where he's trying to upsell those posters. Like he is, he will tell them whatever they want to hear. And he's excited to be a part of the story.

I don't think people think like, oh, he's trying to get her. I don't think kids, teenagers buying the shirt think they're financing a rapist. Well, we know that they don't. Right. But we are excited that he was shot for reasons. We the audience are. Yes. Right.

Well, no. I'm going to say Texas. Like, Texas, based on the radio reports and stuff like that, story is, man is shot by a woman. She's a hero. Like, there's no more to the story. I'm just like, I'm not even trying to be funny on this. I'm like, really like, that is like the narrative of the movie. Right?

Wrong. Wait, wait. Tell me how. Wait, tell me how. I don't know. Just wrong. Tell me how. This guy over here's got it.

Where, right. Yeah, just wrong. Oh, it's Tim. All right, tell you. Well, I trust Tim. Tim's got it. Guys, everybody can realize. Tim's going to school, Paul.

I would love it. I'm just like saying this. The logic of the movie states that all the people know is that she shot this person for no reason. Well, they don't know that it's for no reason. The reason, it's not just he shot her. There's a whole conspiracy. He comes downstairs and says, these kids had this whole plan to rob me. It was her job to get me upstairs and distract me

while the two of them opened the register. Okay. But the reason why it's not like, yay, she's a hero. It's more like a Bonnie and Clyde situation. Like these kids are on the run for shooting an adult. Cool. But like in a bonnie Clyde. Okay, so I like that.

So it's like natural born killers. Now this is big. Again, it's kid logic. It's kids versus adults. Now, by the way, this is, we'll talk about this in a little bit. It is based on a true story. And what I think is interesting is the majority of the kids that are in the movie are young kids.

It's not like it's a bunch of 19 years old. It's not like Rivers Edge. Let me go back to Tim just because I don't want to say something and walk away from me and say, but would you buy, in the Bonnie and Clyde situation, you would be supporting the person robbed. Kind of.

Okay. All right. I mean, I guess, well, that's where. I don't think supporting the person robbed? Well, yeah, because that's what they're doing, right? Also, by the way, but I think you're putting the lens of like, This moment we're in right now where we feel powerless as is just citizens. And so buying things intentionally from people we think are good and want to support is even a concept.

I guess in a way, when Trump gets shot in the face, we are buying those fucking coins with them getting shot in the face. But we're not buying it. I don't think that was. You mean we're buying those coins? But it would be. When you say we're buying those coins, the we I'm assuming is you in June? You never know what's going to go up in value. Funko pops, trump coins.

No, but I guess it would be like, I just have never seen, I get it. I mean, I get it, I get. You are, it's interesting for this movie, you are unwilling to suspend disbelief for certain logical elements. This movie is supposed to be straight and narrowed. This could have happened. Why? It's not fantasy.

What? It's not fantasy, this movie. How is this different from Pump Up the Volume? Oh, that's a good question. Oh, well, Pump Up the Volume. The volume does have some real world stakes where they come and they kind of break in the house with the... How is this different? Like, we're rooting for Christian Slater in that.

Well, because Christian Slater is running a pirate radio station. He's not like running around shooting people. I mean, like, he's not running around shot. He's like, hey, everybody, listen to Sonic Youth. It's like, well, yeah, sure. I mean, it's like, cool, but I'm not... Breaking the law is breaking the law, maybe. All right, I guess.

Yeah, he's on the FCC. I love that movie. Anyway, I haven't rewatched it in years. All right, hi. name what's a question. I'd love to do that. Are we going to start doing good movies now? I guess so. I guess so. We got to do seven minutes in heaven. Yes.

Hi. Hi. David. So the mall scene. Why did the cops, like the whole Billie Jean task force is there? And then the shop owner and son decide to jump in and chase, like, why is that point? He wants revenge. Wait, you're not on our side here. This is another moment I had where all adults are dumb. And like at that moment, you go, Peter Coyote has to be like, we got to fucking cut this guy loose.

Like, I mean, because that, like, he does basically. Right. Because he, he always thinks he's a bad guy. And then. But what was the plan? Why didn't he need to bring his son in there to tackle her when it was full of cops? He's on the news later saying, I didn't trust the cops. I wanted to do it my way, basically.

He says, literally on the news. They should have all worn cups. It's a lot. She becomes a legend because of. basically pretty privilege that that creepy guy taking all the photos if there hadn't been the hot photo of her coming out of the water

like Phoebe Cates and Fast Times they wouldn't care about her being a hero. That's what it was. Now we're talking some truth. Sure, sure. No, it was a really important photo. Yeah. Hi, your name is your question. Hi. I'm Jane.

In answer to your question about why she didn't say in the tape he tried to rape me, because it's not her responsibility. Thank you. Are you asking why women don't come forward more? Thank you so much. No, no, no, and I... Thank you so much for saying that.

Do you want to sit here for two hours to listen to an earnest discussion of this movie? I'm providing a point of view that's necessary for the show. Now, here's the thing. What I was going to say was that... But I did feel at that point, as this guy is growing in this world, why be coy, why protect that guy?

And I understand your point of view, that she doesn't have to do it. She's not protecting him. She's not protecting him. No, I think, you know. She's protecting herself. She's a kid. He's an adult.

He has all the power she has none. But yet she does it in front of everybody at the end. Well, same question. Yeah. But then I realized that I was like playing into that whole, like, victim shaming. Right. So, yeah. She could do with her story of what happened in that attic,

annex, whatever she cares to do with it. She can never speak about it again. She can speak about it as every day. She can do with it whatever she pleases. That's it, Paul. Guys, I'm trying to keep it like. This is not a... I know.

I know you want to, but you keep on walking us right there. All right, yeah. Hey, what's your name? What's your question? Hey, my name's Chris. I may have to rethink the way I saw this movie if this doesn't land, but did anyone else think that the Slaters were dating in the first

10 minutes? Yeah. Everybody did. Everybody did. Well, I just, I thought Zooks would bring it up. No, he can't. You thought I would bring up that? He's locked himself into this position. Oh, no, because I saw this at such a young age and it imprinted on me is that they are just brother and sister.

Before you know that they're brother and sister. But that scene where they're going swimming. I hear you, man. I hear you. She's playing around in the water with her finger. I hear you. But you do know that when the... Yes, I thought it was hot, Zooks. Yes.

Thank you. Finally, one person just a little bit. I'm fucking alone out here. Can I tell you, though? Check out that guy's Google search history. Can I tell you? I actually thought it was a yet another breathtakingly beautiful scene

when he thinks she's been eaten by an alligator. Yes. And the length of time they spent with that and the fear. And you see. he's a little kid and she's his protector and he doesn't know what life is in the thing like. And I thought it was breathtakingly beautiful

that she wasn't wearing a bra and was swimming in a crop top. The movie can be read so many and received so many ways. All right. What's your name? What's your question? I'm Jill. I just want to comment,

Jason, I squealed when you mentioned this movie the other day on the show. I remember I watch this with my mom as a teenager. And when it was over, she's like, I think we need to watch this again. Yes. It was so awesome.

It's just such an important, nice movie. It is wild. Wild to me that this movie was made and got as far as it did because there's so many different things. Like even in that scene, I know we haven't talked about it too much, but that, I don't want to call it a sex scene, but the scene inside the last hole. Like I think that that's a really powerful moment. Like when he's like... When she says, I don't know who I am. Yes.

And he goes. you are Billy G. I felt that like a really like for that for again, this movie is very subtle in so many ways. Like what it is to be a teenager who becomes an icon just trying to do the right thing. And what is kind of even more interesting about it to a certain extent is how it was hated. This movie was hated when it came out. Like like ripped apart in reviews and just like destroyed.

And it's so interesting that like in a time where this is. 80, whatever it is. 85, it's Back to the Future, it's Indiana Jones, like, all so many things. This is a kind of this lost movie, but it is it does feel like one of those movies that like collectively we're like, nope, not ready for this

story. Well, it's also, it's interesting because the framework of it could look like you mentioned natural born. Killers earlier Badlands as an example. Bonnie and Clyde was mentioned. It could be a that, but it's not. They are not on a gleeful shooting spree. They are not

holding up places. They are being framed for and represented as if that's what they are, but they are always trying to just end this by getting justice. I would argue in a way by having her not shoot him, it's a more powerful movie because it actually makes it more complicated in an interesting way. Like, she is just protecting her brother who did commit the crime. And even though people don't know the exact relationship of all that sort of stuff, I mean, that's just a more complicated choice. Yes, this is why the fact that she is not extraordinary, to extract Kenny from that home,

which is a detour the movie kind of takes, there is nothing extraordinary about that act. Those fucking kids, they're all hanging around, listening to this kid getting beaten. They're like, we're not going to do anything. Because that is what she inspires.

That is what she inspires, that we're stronger together, that they become the threat. Oh, those little kids are hanging out on the tree. That's what kids used to do. You used to be out in the street. together running around. That's what it was.

There was just kids in the streets. Not on phones, not being watched. Scuters without helmets. Okay, hi, what's your name? What's your question? My name is Daniel. I think the movie also posits that the people buying all the stuff

are not the real ones. The real ones are out there cutting the sleeves off of their wetsuits and supporting her. Also, I had that exact scooter growing up and it was straight bitching. Wow. But can I, let me ask you a question.

Can I just say something? How do you do that much damage? Like, what were they doing to the scooter? Well, here's the thing that the scooter is such a charged object in this movie because they don't have a lot of money. And I remember the feeling of being a kid and wanting something so badly. And her knowing how important that thing was to him, it wasn't, and this is why Fair is fair.

It's not about the scooter. It's about his. sense of feeling he should have it and that he deserves to have the scooter. Not just that, but as we were just reminded, it was bought with the money that was a result of his father passing away. The scooter wasn't broken. A representation of his lost father. And the dad does talk like kit from Knight Rider sometimes in the scooter, which we don't

hear because it's not really part of the main. What's his name from saying elsewhere does the voice? Yes. Oh, make sure. No. Ouch. Ouch, ma'am, put me back. Bring me back to my son.

Yes, hi. That's good. Can we get our singers to come down to that corner? Yes, your name and your question. My name is Amy, and is this all just anti-capitalist propaganda? You know, this is so, I do believe that this movie is hiding some of these thoughts, because they're burning the merch. There's so much in this movie that's way ahead of its time.

It's no surprise to me that it wasn't received when it came out. critically because it's it is very progressive it is and that basic idea which by the way I feel like we could learn from right now that she doesn't have she's she doesn't resort to violence but she is not an extraordinary human being and she is very very average in a beautiful way because she just continues to show up and try to do the right thing and I want to talk just for a second say like Qie, you know, look, he gets a lot of grief. And listen. And sure, he fucked up the bike, but he's a kid.

Kids will be kids. And here's the thing. Hube what? Hube. No. No. Fair is fair. Fair.

You're right. And that's why we need to celebrate his artistry of light bulbs and shells. We didn't tell, like, he seems so like, yeah, he's a, I think, I got to be a with my dickhead friends, but I really like putting light bulbs and shells. And when we see him... He's a monster until the very end of the movie when he watches his dad spiral out and he kind of slinks away like the meme of Homer Simpson going into the bushes. But like even up until the end at the beach, he's like, it's her brother.

It's not her. He runs out. He's the one that gets him shot, basically. I think Hubey starts the movie a villain, ends the movie a villain. He is really nice. not redeemed until 40 years later during his Halloween. And then he really... Now, I've not seen Hubey Halloween,

but I'm assuming it's a sequel to this movie following the character of Hubey. All right, well, this is amazing. I love all the shirts. I love all the opinions. And, you know, I still think, that last scene with that belt guy comes in and fucking whips the shit out of Mr. Pia.

I would have liked to see a little guy on guy fight. too. Like, you know, why not? She, you know, she doesn't need to do it. So this movie... Who are you? So this movie didn't have enough guys getting one over on the gals for you.

I just would have liked to see these... You'd like to see the men win. No, I would like to see the men beg, uh, the men never learn. They're still... And because she goes, you shouldn't whip him. It's not about that. And then he's like, oh, and he's like, fuck. I can't catch a break. Man.

I am... impressed by your commitment to belt dad as your touchstone for this movie much like um um phoebe kates's mom was your touchstone for drop dead fred belt dad the we're all belt dad no no no we're not we're not all belt dad all right obviously some people have different opinion some people don't but uh now it is time for second opinions. Hi, my name is Sabrina. I'm Amanda.

I come home in the morning light, my brother says, come on, we gotta get back my bike. Oh, brother dear, we're not the fortunate ones. Girls just want to kick nuts. Oh, girls just want to kick nuts. We're on the run. In the middle of the night,

we got a hot hostage who won't put up a fight. Oh, brother dear, please put down that. damn gun girls just want a haircut oh girls just want a haircut that's all they really want want to kick nuts

oh girls just want to kick haircut need for second opinions oh Jason girls just want to kick nuts yes thank you both I have a question

I have a question how did I fuck up we wrote this before the show we didn't think you guys would have anything negative to say about it. We thought it shouldn't have been on the podcast.

But shouldn't you have changed it to Paul? You really fucked up? No. They're saying this is not a movie for this show. Oh, you're fucked up by picking it. My take isn't fucked up. It's just that the movie doesn't belong on the show. Aren't you happy we watch it?

Yes, yes, yes, yes. I mean, I feel really attacked. I'm sorry about that. Get used to it. All right, so, Legend of Billy Jean But can I just say all of those were amazing

Amazing That was incredible I thought for sure We would get all Pat Benatar's Yeah Or I'm shocked None Michael Jackson

Billy Jean I was hoping I also thought That would be what we had By the way After I thought it was about Billy Jean The tennis

Billy Jean King That is incredible Right But now watch Where I did the next split I worked in a video store and I was like, oh, this is a fucking Michael Jackson I'm over Michael Jackson. I don't want to watch

that. And so I had two Even though Helen Slater on the cover looking dread hot. I thought it was like, oh, the music of Michael Jackson with this, like, I, because it's like choosing that leather. I will say this. Had you seen this movie as a child, you would be obsessed with it the way that I am. I mean,

here's what I'm going to tell you, these are the movies that I loved as a kid, 100%. I just avoided it. because of the title. And I will say this. The director did try to change the title. He's like, that Michael Jackson song is pretty popular. Oh, yeah. Let's call it something like different than Billy Jean.

And the student's like, what? Are you kidding? We're bigger than Michael Jackson. And they did not change it. It is weird to have two Billy Jean things in current popular culture. All right. So 6,881 total reviews, 87% are 5%. are five star. Yeah.

Now, zero percent are one star. Now, normally you would say like, well, these can't be funny. Watch out. They're great. They are great. In 2011, P or T review wrote, having watched this twice already, I borrowed it from a friend. I loved it equally both times.

Definitely one that will be in my collection. As a pioneer for equality, This movie was ahead of its time, but my question is, why did Pat Benatar hate it, and why did it flop in theaters? Everyone seems to have an opinion about this film, some good, some bad, oh well, another film that critics didn't like for reasons that most audiences shouldn't care less about. Yes, I consider myself a freelance critic, but even... I'm not always right, but I am entitled to my opinion. even when others don't agree. Now I won't go into detail about the plot.

Everyone has done plenty of that. Suffice it to say, though hardly original, it's still well acted, especially by Ellen Slater, as Billy Jean, and enjoyable, and sends a message for people

who have been bullied or pushed around, or just want to stand up for themselves. Can't wait to own it. Five stars. Why did Pat Benatar hate this film? Jim Mason writes, This is one of my favorites. Maybe in all the history of the show.

Jim Mason writes in 2022. Title, love this movie for personal reasons. Because he usually likes movies for professional reasons. And Jim goes on to say, this film was shot in Corpus Christi, Texas, my favorite place in the world. My wife and I were 30 and 31 years old, working for a boat dealership.

Some of our boats were used for background items. It was the best time of my life. Sailing, racing, and fishing for a living, couldn't wait to get to work each morning. For almost 19 years, couldn't get to work fast enough. It was beyond beautiful. Five stars. I love when people leave in one of these reviews

like an autobiographical... So fast. diary entry about themselves. It's a review of a movie on Amazon. It's like, when I was 31 and my wife was, what? I mean, I'm happy. Good movie, bad movie. That's what we're doing here.

It's not about you. Yeah, I'm not looking for reviews of Corpus Christi. This is an odd one. One star. Max wrote this in 2018. Titles it Fair is Fair. This was strictly an Illuminati movie to encourage the single

androgynous male-female young person. Other things in this movie as well, such as the quasi-Satidinist candle ceremony at the creepy dudes mansion about at the halfway mark, yet still a cult classic. Also, the amount of times a male got racked in the nuts was to signify the taming and or destruction

of the white male penis. Strictly, a movie to promote an agenda from those who, grave power and debauchery. Still a cult classic. Five stars, fair is fair. Fair is fair.

Fair is fair. And finally, we'll end on Spock Jenkins, who writes, It was a movie. I watched it on my TV. Five stars. Title, a movie. I do want to say, even though,

because it was mentioned in those, and you mentioned it earlier, it is a shame that Pet Benetter said it was a bad movie. because, A, I think it's an incredible movie, and B, the song Invincible, the Pat Benet's song Invincible, not only is it so iconically used in the movie, it is teased throughout in an instrumental form,

and then the payoff of it starting to play was a fucking orgasm of audio beauty. It's a great song that is, like, threaded throughout, and then when it lands and it plays in full, unreal. Great. The whole soundtrack, Dynamite. Here's where I want to just give you some interesting side notes, right, about the film. The original writers of this movie, Mark Rosenthal and Lawrence Connor, are mad at this movie. Their script was taken by the director, Matthew Robbins, and Matthew Robbins took somebody who was a writer,

and I'm forgetting that writer's name, but went through like the McCarthy hearings, right? So he really blacklisted writer, took, and I think the way that Matthew Robbins describes, It really brought that into it, feeling an outcast, feeling like he didn't have power, feeling like he was in a system, but he couldn't act on a system. Then that was like this rewrite of the movie. Mark and Lawrence have written essays on how they...

What is the original... Are you going to tell it? Well, I'm going to tell you. Okay. So the original titles were Fair is Fair or Legend, and Legend was abandoned because Tom Cruise had a movie legend coming out. But it was an interesting thing because, I have it right here. The feminist themes were not there at all.

As a matter of fact, there were many gratuitous nudity scenes. There wasn't feminist themes in the two guys that wrote the movie? Yes. From the movie written by the two guys? But Matthew Robinson and the other man who wrote the movie, they were two men as well. Although Helen Slater has said that Matthew Robinson is very in touch with that side of himself and brought a lot from that. So it said it contained many scenes of female nudity.

And Putter and Ophelia are described as typical generic teen beauties. That's from the script. The early versions of the script opened with Billy Jean Topless in her bedroom. I mean, I'm not mad at it. Binks and her are skinny dipping. Billy Jean takes up her clothes

to go swim in in that pool. There's a lot of swimming nude in the movie. There's more sex scenes in the movie. But it was all based on this, which I thought was really interesting. This is based on Fuland Devi, an Indian icon. So after being married off at the age of 11

and being sexually abused by various people, she joined a gang of armed gang robbers, and those gang robbers, they robbed, like, rich villages and held up trains and vehicles, and then when she, and then she basically evaded capture, and then she became this

kind of Robin Hood figure and an eventual member of Indian Parliament. So that is, so it is based in some truth, I mean, very far, removed, in, you know, but it was at least based in this, this amazing, a fool and Devi. So

I thought that was really interesting. That's cool. All right. Final thoughts. Final thoughts. We didn't bring up anything. Would you recommend this movie? Boy, this, I mean, it's just like a 10 out of 10 for me. This is in the 15 years, 16 years we've been doing the show, there are certain movies face off, con air.

Movies that to me are not the movies we typically do because we're here being like this is a problem, that's a problem, this is a problem, that This is just a gangbusters absolute stone cold classic. I loved this. Top to bottom, would I recommend it? I would recommend everybody watch it once a year. Wow.

Yeah. I didn't know. What time of year? This is a summer movie, it's a summer movie, baby. It is. We're in a heat wave right now. Watch this movie. It's funny because I think that, yeah, I'm not taking the point of view tonight of

like, oh, this is a great movie for all the movies we watch. It's like, no, this is an important movie. I loved it so much. The other movie I felt this strongly about was Drop Dead Fresh. This is a really wonderful movie. I mean, I'm just thinking about the scene where she's talking to her mom through the video. And like that is, she's talking to her like mother to mother. There's no sense of like, oh, I know we're children and I'm away.

It's like mom, mom you, mom me, don't worry. We've got it. Like she has the energy of a single mom, which granted many young teens. each girls did at that time. But it was just, it was just so special. I loved it so much. And I don't know if part of my, like,

like, obsession and fascination with it is that it is a representation of contemporary for me being this age. But can I ask you a question, like, because this is, like, this is a time where I grew up in, like, movies like this, but I did not live a life like this. But yet it was like, that's what I should be doing.

Like, were you hanging out, like, in trees like that? as like in waiting for people that come by and scoop you up. In trees. Not, I wasn't waiting around in trees. You were writing, you were writing checks for different utilities. I was absolutely writing checks once I was a stock boy at age 12 at the village store. So like you wanted a bag of chips and like maybe some gum, that's a check. Putting a note in the note section chips.

Yeah. Oh, I'm out. these streets, I'm still writing checks. Wow. No, I truly like... Still got that condom. I want to... I want to host I want to host a screening of this movie.

I want to see it with an audience. Like, I want to watch it, you know, a couple times a year. I didn't know we were just going to watch our favorite movies because I guess Anne of Green Gables is next. I mean, we are kindred spirits. Thank you. That's an Anne of Green Gables

reference. It is a, yes. It is. We guys suck. We don't normally do this, but we do have a special guest tonight. Belt Dad, come on out. Belt Dad. And he's going to hit all, I'm going to give you all little taste. Why do I feel like, before I know it, somehow we're going to have a Belt Dad t-shirt? I'd rather have No Dad than Belt Dad or Belt Dad.

I'd rather have a Belt Dad than No Dad. No Dad better than No, Belt Dad? I don't know. Something in here. Well, I have a feeling because people have amazing merch already out there that there probably isn't Billie Jean merch. We will look and see where we can kind of figure out our own spot in this world. So we're not profiteering. Or we can maybe have a shirt just as Pat Benatar is wrong.

Yes. Oh, I love that. I personally go, I will be on Etsy tonight and I will be purchasing. I will be purchasing that T-shirt and probably the hat. Wait, did the, the duo of women who sang with the. Those Billie Jean shirts. Did you make or did you buy them? You made them.

Wow. Do you have an Etsy store? You're about to be rich. Maybe if Molly can get a picture of them, we can make you the artists of this shirt and then you'll get a cut of that profit. I mean, the reality is this movie, and I felt like this with Drop Dead Fred,

this movie is so genuinely fantastic. And I mean it when I say, I've had a long week, but I sobbed through so much of this movie. There is something about a movie that is about kids alone off on their own, trying to write the wrongs that adults are doing to them. That just hits me right in the heart. And I was sobbing throughout. From Underground Railroad until the end, I was like, game over.

Same. I was doing, I was going, yes. I was standing. I'm 53 years. By the way, by the way, speaking of the Underground Railroad, like I didn't understand where she was going. It seemed like maybe she was going in a circle. I think she was.

I feel like she never got more than 25 miles away from where the movie starts. I was fine at that. I think that's absolutely right. Totally fine of that. I think she never leaves Corpus Christi. No. The greater Corpus Christi area. Fine by me.

And by the way, if you'll notice. She's in that mini golf fucking place for the majority of the, like, her home base is the mini golf place. Yes. Which I also loved as a where the kids would go, the abandoned mini golf place. And if you want to go visit it, it's now an aquarium. Oh, is it really? Oh, that's funny.

I didn't take a single note. Maybe I took two. I did walk by you when you were watching it and I just saw the notebook far away from you. I closed it and I put it down and I just watched it. I did that for a long time. Yeah, I just was like, I caught myself and I was like, I haven't taken a note in a while because I'm just loving this. Yeah, I just have to enjoy this. My only disappointment in.

My only disappointment in you, the audience, is that no one showed up with a Billy Jean haircut. I really was sure somebody was going to be like, I did it. And I will say I'm proud of you. I would have proposed. Well, June, Jason, anything you want to promote June? Well, Elle is on Prime Video. All the episodes are streaming. It's a really sweet show.

I love that. Now, do you think that your character would have watched Billy Jean, the legend of Billy Jean? Oh, that's a great question. Yeah, but I don't know that she would have liked it as much as, yeah. She would have been on that other side. She would have been on your side. Felt that side. Yeah, no, no, no, no, no, no.

I don't think she would have felt as strongly as I do. Okay. Jason, anything we want to promote? I'll promote this summer we did a 10th anniversary of the Chris Getherd one man's trash episode. that I believe is going to be released somehow soon. It is being edited right now. Yeah, I think it's being edited right now. But if you've never seen it, it's on YouTube.

Paul and I are guests on the Chris Getherd show. It is one of the best episodes of television ever, I think. So go watch that. And I'm still promoting Taskmaster Season 19 just because I'm locked in, everybody. I'm locked in. I want to let everybody know that I am going to be on Who Wants to Be a Millionaire. with Rob Hewbel. And it's...

Wait, is it team? It's team now. It's team now. So it's like Larry David and Cassie David. And it was... Everybody is really fun pairs. Rob and I, of course, have Dark Web every Monday on YouTube.

Check it out if you've not check it out yet. All right. So this is a thank God it got made. Thank you everybody for coming out here to Largo. Thank you to our amazing staff. We love being at Largo. Our producer, Scott Sani, and Molly, Our entire production team for putting this show together.

Eat shit. Okay, whether you are team Billy Jean or Team Beltad, the only team to be, thank you so much for listening. We're doing something special this week. We have two specialty shirts for this episode that were designed by one of our second opinion song singers. That's right. Sabrina designed one that says Billy Jean, and the other one says Pat Benatar was wrong.

Now, you can snag both of these shirts by clicking. the merch link at hdtgm.com and all proceeds from these shirts will go to sabrina now if you're in los angeles in october and want to see june and i live doing a improvised multicam sitcom created by martha coffman the creator of friends uh we have tickets available for you at that same link hdtgm dot com just click there and tell us what dates you can come see the show it is going to be an absolute blast dinosaur or improv will be back at Largo on September 11th. And if you are a fan of trivia, check me and Rob Hewbel out on Who Wants to Be a Millionaire on Hulu. And you can watch the 10th anniversary of Chris Gethird's one-man trash anniversary show that Jason and I did in New York just a few months ago,

also on YouTube. And if you're on YouTube, why you check out the dark web? We have so many good things. But you know what? We know that you are superfan and you have a lot to say. So if you have a correction and omission from this episode about Billy Jean. You can leave us a voicemail by going to speakpipe.com slash HDTGM or write to us on our Discord at discord.g.g.m. We are also still accepting corrections and omissions for our triple X episode as we get ready to launch a supersized last looks. We love being at Largo. Our pals, Flanny, Griffey, and skills in the booth are just the best. If you're ever in L.A., come support Largo. And a big thank you to our recording engineer, Rich Garcia,

who's coming out to do these live shows with us. Remember, if you listen to us on Apple, podcast, or Spotify, please make sure you are subscribed into our feed and have automatic downloads turned on in the show settings. It helps us. And we appreciate it. Always make sure you're telling people about the show and check out our Instagram page where you can watch videos from our live show.

And lastly, I have to give a huge thank you to our behind-the-scenes team. I'm talking about our producer, Scott Sondi. and Molly Reynolds, our engineer Casey Holford, and our social media manager, Zoe Applebaum, as well as our intern Emily Galbard. We will forever be thankful to the one and only April Haley. And you know what, people, that's all I got. I'll see you next week on Last Looks. Bye for now.