How I Built This with Guy Raz - Advice Line: Playing to Your Strengths

Episode Date: September 4, 2025

This week, Guy is joined by Lady Gaga’s former manager Troy Carter, Joe Gebbia of Airbnb, and Sadie Lincoln of barre3 in a special mashup episode of the Advice Line about playing to your business’s strengths.First, Honor from Australia wants to partner with a celebrity in a way that actually boosts her pill organizer brand. Then, Arvy from Johannesburg digs into what makes his sporting and outdoor optics company special. And finally, Genevieve from Montana discovers all the different ways her customers can help her sailing instruction business grow.Thank you to the founders of Dosey, ProltUp Optics, and Go Sail Virgin Islands and Flathead Lake for coming on the show.If you’d like to be featured on a future Advice Line episode, leave us a one-minute message that tells us about your business and a specific question you’d like answered. Send a voice memo to [e-mail] or call 1-800-433-1298.This episode was produced by Noor Gill and Alex Cheng with music by Ramtin Arablouei. It was edited by Andrea Bruce. Our audio engineers were James Willetts and Maggie Luthar.You can follow HIBT on X & Instagram and sign up for Guy's free newsletter at guyraz.com or on Substack.To hear our returning guests’ previous episodes:Lady Gaga & Atom Factory: Troy Carter | Advice Line with Troy CarterAirbnb: Joe Gebbia | Advice Line with Joe GebbiaBarre3: Sadie Lincoln | Advice Line with Sadie LincolnSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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It had tall windows, beautiful old details, and plenty of space for all of us. And being in that home on Airbnb, right in the middle of Vienna, walking distance from so much of the city, made it feel less like a visit and more like we were actually living there. Plus, taking a trip is the perfect time to host your space on Airbnb. Your place with all of its personal touches and its amazing location could make someone else's vacation even better. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.ca slash host. Hello and welcome to the advice line on how I built this lab.

I'm Guy Raz. This is the place where we help try to solve your business challenges. Each week, I'm joined by a legendary founder, a former guest on this show who will help me try to help you. And this week we have a special episode. It's a bit of a mashup, three callers and three different former guests, but all three conversations find their way to a challenge all founders face, which is, how do I play to my strengths? By the way, if you're building something and you need advice, give us a call,

and you just might be the next guest on the show. Our number is 1-800-433-1298. Send us a one-minute message that tells us about your business and the issues or questions that you'd like help with. And you can also send us a voice memo, at H-I-B-T at ID.Wondry.com and make sure to tell us how to reach you. And also, don't forget to sign up for my newsletter. It's full of insights and ideas from some of the world's greatest entrepreneurs.

You can sign up for free at guyraz.com or on Substack. And we'll put all of this info in the podcast description. All right, let's get to it. Our first guest today is Troy Carter, the founder of Adam Factory, which managed stars like Lady Gaga and John Legend. And Troy was first on how he built this back in 2018. He told us about how he got a star working for the fresh prints in West Philadelphia and how he eventually went from there all the way to the top of the music business in L.A.

It's an amazing story and we'll put a link to it in the show notes to check it out. Of course, Troy has a lot of experience managing celebrities, but he cautioned our callers on the advice line to be careful with big names and influencers. It's not enough for you to be excited about a celebrity partner. the celebrity needs to be excited about your brand as well. Welcome to the advice line. You're on with me and Troy Carter. Tell us your name and where you're calling from and just one line about your business, please.

Hello, I am Honor and I'm an Aussie. And my brand is Dozy and we make beautiful pill organizers because pill takers deserve pretty things too. All right, pill organizers. Welcome to the show, Honor. Thank you for joining us. So the company's called Dozy and you make organizers for people. pills. Like, you know, you go to like CVS and get a plastic case with a Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday on it. But yours are nicer. They're more elegant. Yeah, they're pretty. That was the

whole thing when I wanted to create the brand because I'm a pill taker and I just wanted something that was aesthetic and it was felt more like me than just one of those sort of cheap plastic ones that you find. Yeah. It's interesting, interesting because this feels like a place ripe for disruption. Okay. How did you get into this business? What were you doing? Were you in consumer goods? before? I was in radio, in Australia. I worked in radio for 15 years, getting up at 4 a.m. and doing all the fun things for radio and all the creativity that I was putting into that career. I just sort of got to a point where I was like, I want to sort of do my own thing and I want to create my own creative thing and sort of channel my energy into that. And as I said, I'm a pill taker. So I sort of was

looking around at products that I could sort of reinvent. And yeah, it was the good old pill organizer that I finally stumbled on. It's a cool idea. I'm looking at it now. I'm looking at your website and seeing the different like pill cases because when I travel, honestly, I take like supplements, you know, vitamins and fish oil. And I just throw them a Ziploc bag. Yeah, I was sitting there. I was literally sitting in a hotel one time and I had my pills in this Ziploc bag. And, you know, I had this beautiful beauty case. I had a beautiful suitcase. I had all this beauty.

And then I had these pills in this Ziploc bag. And I was just like, what is that about? You know, this is something I need to take for my health every, you know, like a few times a day. And it's not pretty. Yeah. So you decided to go in this direction. Smart move, by the way. I'm always in favor of people leaving mainstream journalism, media organizations and starting on their own as I did.

Honor, are you based in Australia still? No. So I launched the brand. in Australia from my spare bedroom, did the whole side hustle thing. The brand went viral on TikTok after about six months and I was getting so much demand from the American market that I just thought, okay, well, I'll do that. And I launched it in America after six months, still just me, just by myself. You're now based here in the US? Yeah. Now I'm based in America and it's an American company and we have an American warehouse and it's all very American. Awesome. Awesome.

Tell me a little bit about what you're, what you project for sales this year in 2025. Yeah, so 2025, we're looking at $3.5 million. In sales. In sales, yeah, profitably too. That's great. So we kept everything super lean and tried to keep it as streamlined as possible and just sell as many as we can. All right. So you've got a nice business going and you've got some profit on that, on those sales.

Tell me before we dive in further. What's the question you have? for us. Well, I wanted to talk, Troy, to you about celebrities. We're sort of at that point where it'd be great to do some partnerships. But then you see these bigger brands like road selling for a billion dollars or there was this a glitter freckle brand that sent their stuff to Taylor Swift and she put it on and they went ballistic. I just, how do you make a brand and a celebrity come together and it actually work? And then even equity share, because it's not like we have billions of dollars to throw at a celebrity.

Yeah, it's a great question. Troy, I want to bring you in, Troy Carter. Before we answer her question, do you have any questions for honor? No, it sounds like an amazing business. I got a chance to take a look at the product, too. A very beautiful and elegant product. Thank you. Definitely different from the ones that we see at Walgreens. Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

So, Troy, what do you think? I mean, if there's a product like this, you know, you want to get a celebrity involved because the idea is that they're going to, you know, help sales. What's the approach? The way I would look at it is who would be my ideal person slash partner for this? And because this is a very specific category, it has to be directly related to being part of that person's lifestyle, essentially. So one, you know, that's probably a narrow list.

and being able to sort of, from that list, kind of look at, does the brand values align? Is there any sort of reputational risk? How many other partnerships do they have and how have they performed in those other partnerships? And what type of commitment will they give to the brand? Because there's certain things that happen sort of in front of the camera. but a lot of times there's more important things that happen behind the camera. You know, so in terms of are they going to meet with the head of sales for your largest distributor or show up at certain events that might not be publicized, but like how can you get the most

out of that partnership and create mutual value? You know, John Legend is a really good example of somebody who is a great partner for a brand. And I'm not saying your specific brand. I'm just saying where John is a guy who behind the scenes, John can meet with any president, CEO of any company, and clearly articulate the vision of the company because he's done an incredible amount of diligence before even the first meeting. And so by the time he says, yes, he's knowledgeable and a real commitment around it. And that's the type of partner that you would want.

That's an interesting example of John Legend. Let me ask you a question on her. Do you have a specific celebrity or specific types of celebrities in mind that you'd want to work with? It's a tricky one. Like I get it because you need them to be sort of in that wellness space, I guess. I mean, I'd love Selena Gomez. She's definitely in that space. So people, you know, there's that sort of thing.

One of the things that I would say, and you know, when I look at, you know, we invested in a company called Thrive Market. And when they first started, they found mom influencers and health influencers. And you could hear the episode on how I built this with Nick Green. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I love those guys. But what worked really well, and we've seen a lot of other companies replicate it, is when you're dealing with social influencers, they are used to promoting things and is built into their lifestyle with celebrities.

a lot of times, they're going to look at the contract and it's going to say you got to make four social posts, you got to show up to it an event. You got to, you know, it's very rigid, right? So you want to make sure that whoever you're bringing into your company, they're going to do the work in terms of promoting a brand and but also do things that live outside of the contract. But influencers, you know, they call them influences for a reason. They have, you know, a lot of influence. And so if you can find ones that are super authentic to your calls, it could be a great marriage.

And in that way, it doesn't have to be just one. You can figure out, okay, let me pick three or four people that I feel like I have brand alignment with and use that as a platform. Yeah, I want to throw out an idea for you, Honor, because I think one of the challenges right now is I'm thinking about who would endorse this product, right? when you think about a pill case, you think about medication, right? And medication is very personal, right? If somebody's taking antidepressants or medication for, you know, heart issues, like it's very, people don't necessarily want to talk about that openly. But I think one of the things that that is interesting is probably a lot of people using your product. They're using it for supplements, fish oil or that's exactly what I was thinking. meadow or, you know, vitamins, multivitamins. The one thing I don't see on your site is a product that would appeal to men. This is still a very, it's beautiful. It's very feminine. And guys travel. And, you know, they might be taking creatine and vitamin D and vitamin multivitamin and fish oil and, you know, all these supplements, right? And so to me, it seems like there's an opportunity to

create a case for the male traveler too. Because I think a lot of people think a pill case. I think of old people who are infirm and sick and they have dementia and they can't remember to take their medication. What you're doing is something different. It's like, hey, you're a traveler, you're dynamic, you're busy, you're on the road, and here's a great way to organize your supplements. And the thing is, too, guy, whether you're taking supplements or you're taking medication, you don't want to seem like the senior citizen pulling out that case or whatever, right? And when you think about, you know, the health influencers like Huberman and like, you know, it's like people with really large followings that are also recommending these supplements or whatever, it seems like that would be a great partnership. So like great idea, guy. Yeah, I would look into that. And then I would start with micro influencers. People with, you know, 50,000 followers are cheaper. You can find people who've got their tribe and start there. But I would really think about positioning, creating a, another design that maybe might appeal to men or that's more active looking in a sense. Does that make

sense? Yeah, absolutely. No, no, I do, we do get that feedback. Like, we're the ones for the boys. It's just a slow process with molding and, you know, production. And we sell out all the time and we're just constantly trying to keep up. So it's just, it's one of those small business things where you just got money stuck in product on boats and in, you know, warehouses and all the rest of it. Also, one last thing I would try, which is, and I hope I'm not encouraging listeners to do this, please don't do it. But they'll do it anyway. I get sent a lot of stuff. Okay.

My mailing address is on my website's public. I get sent endless amounts of stuff. I don't see it all. And I appreciate it's really nice. And when I can try it, I will. But I do think it's worth it identifying, you know, five or ten people that you do want to work with. You know, yeah, Selena Gomez, but maybe there are people who are not as high profile. who don't receive that much stuff, right, that you think could be interesting.

Just send them one and send a handwritten note and say, hey, I admire you. I use this for my supplements. I know you travel a lot. You're on set. And tell me what you think. You know, I'd love to partner with yours. Whatever. Just try that.

It's not that hard to find them. And why is celebrity important to you? You know, I mean, I'm an Aussie. I'm in America. And it's all about celebrity. It feels like here. I just presume that they have that influence. and they have the power and they have the momentum behind them.

They can. Sometimes it depends. Troy, right? I mean, we've seen a lot of celebrity brands that just fizzle out. But I do think what Troy said earlier about finding that person with the authentic connection to it, a belief in it, is the key. Right, Troy? Yeah.

You know, it's most celebrity partnerships don't work. The majority don't work. The other piece that I find is. is when celebrities invest, they're more committed. That's what I, yeah, because that would be good. So where it's not just this sort of one-way transaction of you writing a check or, you know, or giving up equity, you know, but it's for them to have some skin in the game and really feel a part of it, you get more of a partnership out of it.

Yeah, I just listened to Hexclad and they got Gordon Ramsey. They did. I mean, oh, how's that? But it was hard, right? And it takes time. And whoop bans, the wristbands, you know, Will Ahmed send one to LeBron James's trainer, right? And so not to LeBron, but his trainer. So there are ways to do it.

It doesn't always work, but it does often work for the celebrity, especially if they're paid money. Ask Larry David, who got $10 million to an FTX commercial. Honor Elliott, the brand is called Dozy. Congrats. Good luck. Thank you so much. Awesome, awesome product. Thanks for calling in.

Thank you. I really actually appreciate that. You said, Troy, about celebrity partnerships. Most of the time they don't work. And I think that is so true. And I think a lot of people put too much faith in the power of celebrity. And the power of celebrity is vastly diminished today than it was 10, 15, 20, 30 years ago. It is.

And you can clearly see it through TikTok. Yeah. Like people who can actually move product and move the needle is not what it used to be where you could just put a famous face next to your product and people believe the famous face. Yeah, I mean, there are plenty of brands that just don't move. You know, they don't sell. If the person connected to them is not seen as somebody who's important or interesting in that space, right? If you have a product or a brand that is coming from somebody who really genuinely lives that way, it's different.

Yeah. We're going to take a quick break, but when we come back, Joe Jebby, a co-founder of Airbnb, joins me on the Advice Line. Stay with us. You are listening to a special mashup episode of The Advice Line on how I built this lab. Hey, welcome back to the advice line on how I built this lab. I'm Guy Raz. So our next return guest is Joe Jebia. He co-founded Airbnb, and Joe was one of our very first guests on the show back in 2016.

And we'll put a link to that episode in the podcast description. When Joe and his co-founders, including Brian Chesky, first launched Airbnb, it was a controversial idea. A lot of people thought, why would I ever open up my house to strangers from the Internet? But Joe and Brian and their other co-founder, Nate, stuck with it. And eventually, Airbnb became one of the most legendary unicorns in Silicon Valley. Anyway, Joe came back onto the show to help our callers figure out what makes their businesses stand out from the rest. All right, hello caller. Welcome to the advice line you are on with Joe Jebbya, co-founder of Airbnb.

Please tell us where you are calling from, the name of your business, and a little bit about it. Hey, God, I'm going, Joe. My name is R.V. Songway, and I'm calling from Johannesburg, South Africa. I'm the founder of ProDab Optics, a company specializing in manufacturing outdoor and sporting optical products. Of the past few years, we've built a strong reputation in the safari and outdoor market with partnerships in wildlife conservation and high-end safari lodges. My question is about scaling my business. I'd like to get guidance on how to approach major retail players,

and of course securing the necessary investment to expand into mass retail while staying true. to our core values. Awesome. RV, welcome to the show all the way from Johannesburg. Thank you for listening to the show and for calling in. Pro it up. Okay, tell me a little bit about what you sell. Like, what are your main products?

Binoculars, range finders for golf, you know, the safari and outdoor space is mostly binoculars spotting scopes, which we supply to safari lodges throughout Africa. Got it. Okay. Tell me a little bit about your background. What gave you this idea to start this kind of business? You know, funny enough, we started specifically on the golf side and we thought we'd build like a really, really big business just particularly in golf. And what we got to learn very quickly is, you know, the market wasn't as big as we thought.

For range finders. For range finders, that is. And, you know, specifically in the southern hemisphere, because for a very long time, those markets have been dominated by international brands. And having come to college to the U.S., each time I went. back home, it was really hard to find specific batteries for these range finder devices. And I was like, well, this is very interesting. And that's kind of how I got into the space. And then obviously, like I said, we started in golf and we saw more opportunity on the outdoor

side. And that's where ProDup Optics was born. And so you, I'm assuming you came to the US to play golf? Yes. Yeah. I came on a golf scholarship from 2016. And so funny enough, this is such a massive full circle moment for me, because, you know, who's guy, I started listening to how I bought this, the first, basically the first year I moved

to the U.S. Oh, nice. Well, here you are. Now you're on it. Okay, well, so a couple questions, right? So you're looking to figure out how to scale, how to get into retail, and there's a lot to answer there. And I want to bring Joe, I want to bring Joe, I want to ring Joe Jebbya from Airbnb. Joe, questions for RV first. Oh, RV. It's great to meet you, and congratulations. I would ask a couple of things, you know, relative to other things on the market, if you want to get into, say, the northern hemisphere, what do you think your competitive advantages are? I think our biggest competitive advantage is the fact that we have a high-quality product just at an affordable price, right?

We're not too far off from your top-end brands in the market. And so definitely price point sets us apart. But I think a very important part of that is, you know, we're obsessed with Africa. we're obsessed with travel and I think a big part of that is we play a massive role in the conservation of wildlife and I think that's really

what sets us apart to any other optics player is not only do we speak the game of wildlife conservation but we're on the ground and we're wanting to do it RV I'm curious because I'm looking at your website now and so your binoculars the prices are in South African Rands but I think they're roughly about $220 right now That's correct. Roughly. So, I mean, $221, right? Seems like a good value. But again, I don't know because there are binoculars that are probably 50 bucks and some that are $5,000.

Sure. So how are you positioning or how can you position what you're selling to underscore the value proposition? Sure. We back all our products with a 10-year warranty. So regardless of the price point, we give you that peace of mind to know that, hey, if anything goes wrong with your optics, you send them back to us. No question. ask we replace them or we actually, you know, repair them ourselves. And I think that's been a big thing. And like I said earlier, you know, the African market in sporting optics has been dominated by international brands for the long time. But they're dominated by distributing brands, right? And what I mean by that is there's no actual brand presence in the country that these products are consumed. And I think where we had opportunity is to have that actual presence. You know, we're very proud to be one of Africa's first ever sporting optics companies. I think that's a great value

proposition, the durability and the robustness of your offering. I'm looking on the website right now, and I was trying to find where that showed up. I see it. It's at the bottom, and it's the fourth FAQ down at the bottom of the front of the homepage. I think it's a super valuable, interesting part of why you'd buy from ProDub. You may want to bring that up higher on the webpage. Okay. Yeah. I mean, so there's couple stories you're telling. You're telling a story about value, quality, guarantee. That's one story. And that's, you know, a good story to tell a lot of, and there's going to be a lot of businesses and brands that tell that story. But to me, the story that you're not telling here that I think you could really tell something you just refer to, which is this is a South African brand. I mean, people come to South Africa and Tanzania and Kenya from around the world to go on safari, right? It's like people come to California and, well, in South Africa. Africa too to drink wine or France, right? Sure.

So you want to drink French or South African or Californian wine when you're there, right? So to me, there seems like there's an opportunity here to lean into, hey, this is an African brand. We know what you need on Safari. And so I feel like that story isn't being told on here. Joe, you know what I mean, Joe? I completely agree. It's like you do have a point of view that another binoculars company, that's not based there, they can't do it. That's actually a very unique selling point for you guys

from a storytelling standpoint. Yeah, I mean, I feel like, you know, you asked about how do you expand into retail or how you grow an international footprint? I feel like you have a little work to do on really developing the brand, especially if you're the only South African optics brand, binoculars, rangefinders, that to me just feels like a great opportunity to really lean into that. Maybe you kind of play around with a slight rebrand, nothing too extensive, but a rebrand where you kind of work on a new logo, you really lean into this being a brand from South Africa. No, absolutely. I think that's absolutely valuable. And, you know, a big part of the story retelling is how obsessed we are with Africa, how obsessed we are with the outdoors.

I think, guys, it brings up a great point. You know, you have the credibility to, you know, claim your space as a South African company or African company, you know, and like, and specifically it's about safari. It's about enjoying wildlife. I think you can double down on that more. And I think the visuals and the way you present on the website, right now it seems, it's like the product is in the consumer's hand, which maybe is fine because they're the end consumer. It's kind of like, I want to see this in the hands of somebody who's in the bush all day and night. You know, somebody who's like a real, they've got mud on their hands. And they've been sleeping in a tent for the last two weeks.

And they choose your product because it has the durability because they know if something breaks, they can send it back to you. It's got all the functionality they need in order to do what they need to do out in nature. I love that. RV, I'm going to give you one suggestion, okay, because you ask how do you get into retail outlets, expand internationally? I think it's a step-by-set process for you. There's an episode we did this show about Sunbum, Suntown Lotion. It's a huge brand in America. It's one of the top-10 brands, started by a guy named Tom Rinks.

And Tom very deliberately started his brand. But what he did was, initially he went to very few boutiques in Hawaii to hotel gift shops and boutiques in Hawaii, and he only sold SunBumb there because he knew that tourists from around the world go to Waikiki Beach in certain hotels in Hawaii, particularly wealthier tours from Asia and also wealthy tourists from the mainland of the U.S. By exposing them to this brand there, they would bring it back with them. And that's how he could start to expand the brand. And of course, he did eventually sell the brand to S.C. Johnson for hundreds of millions

of dollars. That could be an interesting model. You may already be doing this. Safari lodges. Are you selling the binoculars there in their gift shops? Are you selling them in hotels in South Africa? are you in touch with adventure shops in Europe and in the United States? And I think that's really how you do it.

You've got to go step by step very methodically before you can think about a bigger, more scaled plan. Right. So a big part of our model is going directly to the safari lodges. So we're servicing currently over 100 safari lodges throughout Africa, right? Great. And so I think our approach with that is we have a three-prong approach. We put it on their vehicles, put it in their in their, in their rooms and then we also offered it in their kuro shops.

So we take you through this, you know, entire experience where you tried, you have it in front of you and you buy it. That's great. And you know what? When you've got tourists like the Jebia family on Safari, I'm serious, you've got like people coming from around the world and to see it, that's where you're going to start to see traction. Sure. Arvi, good luck.

The brand is called Pro It Up. We will be, we're cheering you on, man. Good luck. Thank you so much, Guy, and appreciate you, Joe. Good luck, Harvey. Thank you. Awesome. Joe, I do not think you're a golfer. Have you been on Safari before? I went on with Safari in Kenya once.

Pretty cool, right? It was unbelievable. Yeah. Unbelievable. It was 6 a.m. and sure enough, you know, it's like there was a male lion crossing the road right in front of. It was like one of the first sites that we saw. And it looked like he had had a long night. He was going home from a long night out. Long night of eating other animals. We're going to take another quick break, but when we come back, Sadie Lincoln, founder of Bar 3, joins me right here on the advice line.

Stay with us, I'm Guy Raz, and you're listening to a special mashup episode of the advice line on how I built this lab. Welcome back to the advice line on how I built this lab. I'm Guy Raz. So our last return guest is Sadie Lincoln, and when Sadie first came onto the show back in 2018, she told us about how she launched her fitness company, Bar 3. Sadie and her husband gave up what seemed like the perfect life and sold basically everything they owned to pursue this idea. And that bet worked out pretty well. Today there are over 200 bar three studios across the U.S. And if you want to hear that story, we will put a link to it in the show notes.

Here on the advice line, Sadie reminded our callers that their customers can be their greatest strength, not just because they buy their products, but also because they want to see the businesses they love. succeed. Hello, welcome to the device line. You are on with Sadie Lincoln. Hi, Guy and Sadie. This is Captain Genevieve from GoSale Partners. I'm a solo funded CEO and founder of a sailing company. We offer premium learn-to-sale vacations in two locations right now on the Caribbean, the Virgin Islands and Western Montana Flathead Lake. All right. Well, thanks so much for calling in Genevieve. So you are, you've got a company that teaches sailing on vacation. And tell me where you're calling from.

I'm calling from Montana today. Montana, okay. So you run a sailing business, and is, I'm sorry to ask, is there sailing in Montana? I know, that's a common question I get. And actually, Montana has gorgeous sailing. It's a lake called Flathead, and it's the largest lake west of the Mississippi. It's 27 miles long, 17 miles wide. We get great wind. It's clear, beautiful water. It's awesome. Who knew? Right. Montana, the home of rural class. All right. So you have a business where you basically offer learn-to-sail vacation packages. And you can do it in Montana or in the Virgin Islands? Yep. In the British, the U.S. and the Spanish Virgin Islands, we offer week-long live-a-board sailing vacations for

people who are looking to bear boat charter, you know, learn how to sail boats that are 40, 50 feet long. Wow. And do you, do you own these boats? Well, I have one boat that I race pretty regularly, and I've had boats in past, but I've really learned the best policy is other people's boats. So I charter boats to use for the classes. You basically, you've got boats that you lease in these places, and then you've got people who you hire to then teach other people how to sail. Is that much? or less business? Yes, that's exactly what it is. We have eight captains that work for us and nine other fractional employees, and we will get a booking with someone who wants to go on a learn-to-sail vacation, and then we sign a captain, and they go on the scheduled trip and

learn how to operate that vessel during a week-long live-a-board class. Got it. Okay. And tell us what your question is. My question is really for you, Cady and Guy, is how to grow and scale and let go. I feel like I'm getting to the point with sales where I need to hire someone, but it's a very highly technical and knowledge-based sales position because of the sailing lingo, the places that we go and getting the right person that can convey that, you know, right now one of our best sales people is me because I say, Hi, I'm Captain Genevieve. Let me help you plan your vacation. Got it. Okay. Before we get to your

question, Sadie, any thoughts, questions? How many people are on your excursions when you go to learn to sales? Is it one-on-one? Is it groups? And also what kind of person? What type are person? Most of the people who take courses are in three categories. One, we have families who are multi-generation. So we have 70-year-olds that are taking sailing lessons with 10-year-olds. And that would be kind of a private group and up to six to eight students during the week, and it's modified and customized to the age groups that are there. And then the second main group that we have are sailing couples, so people who want to, you know, sell their business, cash out, go buy a boat and go live on it. And then our third main group is single people who are, you know, in retired

mode and they want to spend their retirement year sailing. And they are, you know, they are. are, let's say, 55 to 75, and they want to come and learn on the boat how to operate it because they're planning to rent a boat of this size, bring their family for vacations, cruise around the Caribbean, that kind of thing. Got it. Okay. And are you looking to do less, I mean, are you looking to be less hands-on with the business? Is that what you're hoping to do? Is that your challenge? Well, as we're growing, I'm starting to just become overwhelmed with the volume of calls and communications and sales leads. And I want to make sure that everything's getting followed through the correct way. So each customer gets the value, the quality, the connection, because we certify about three to 400 sailors a year. And it's just getting to be quite a volume. And I'd like to expand in some other locations. Genevieve, as an experience share, there's some similarities, right, of your business and mine. I started out teaching bar three. I taught 19 classes a week. Wow. And I had that awkward moment where I was like, how do I pull out of this and hire people to help me?

Because there was nobody else teaching bar three or bar in all of Portland. And so my first best team members were clients who loved the product, who learned the product with me. and enjoyed Bar 3 authentically and came from a background of sales, operations, marketing, finance, those areas that I didn't have the time, nor really the desire to drill down into. So I pulled my first team right from my very first clients. So that's one suggestion if you haven't already is to really tap into all those people who have already experienced this with you. If they can't work for you, do they know someone who could? I'm guessing the kind of caliber of person who can take the time and resources to do something like that

probably has a pretty strong Rolodex and community. I agree. I think that's good advice. I've actually thought about reaching out to other American sailing instructors that I've worked with in the past to see if they'd be interested in spending a little less time on the boats and maybe helping out with the sails. Well, I was actually wondering about not necessarily your instructors, but the people who are learning to sail with you. Just even having a casual conversation with them on the boat and training your instructors to have this conversation with them. Hey, we're looking for a videographer to market our programs better. Do you happen to know someone who would be interested in this?

I agree. I think that that's a great idea. And I think we can definitely reach out to some of those. And they probably want you to be successful. Yes. They want you to keep going. They're rooting for you. Yeah, they really do.

Yeah, it's really cool. It's really special. And Genevieve, tell me what's the sort of the broad ambition for, you know, like in five or ten years from now. What do you want this to look like? I can see that we would be in five to ten years in more locations. We've put together a very succinct model that allows people of a lot of different age groups to be able to come and do these classes. So we have a trail that all of our students are typically going on, and I can see that this is a system that works and is differentiated from other sailing schools because the boats that other schools use are older. They don't have as much communication. They don't have as much availability. They don't have as experienced of instructors. And so I've got a model of a franchise potentially.

That's what really inspired me about your story, Sadie. it was hiring your customers to then be instructors and then take on, you know, their own studio and their own space. And then in their own sailing community, they can really use the backbone and the foundation of what you developed in order to make it their own. Right. You have the template and you've proven it out as well. Yeah. Genevieve Evans, the brand is called GoSale Virgin Islands. Congrats. Thanks so much for calling in. Thank you. Good luck. Bye. I could use a sailing vacation right now, Sadie. Let's do it.

Hey, thanks so much for listening to this special mashup edition of the advice line on how I built this lab. And special thanks to Troy Carter of Adam Factory, Jogebia of Airbnb, and Sadie Lincoln of Bar 3 for joining me on the show. Again, if you haven't heard their original episodes or their full episodes of Advice Line, you'll definitely want to check them out. We will put links to them in the show notes. By the way, please make sure to check out my newsletter. You can sign up for it for free at gairoze.com. or on Substack. And of course, if you are working on a business and you'd like to be on this show,

send us a one-minute message that tells us a little bit about your business and the questions or issues that you're currently facing, because we would love to try and help you solve them. You can send us a voice memo at hibt at ID.wondry.com or call us at 1-800-433-1298. Leave a message there and make sure to tell us how to reach you and we'll put all of this information in the podcast description as well. This episode was produced by Nora Gill and Alex Chung with music composed by Rumtine Arablewey.

It was edited by Andrea Bruce. Our engineers were James Willets and Maggie Luthar. Our production staff also includes Casey Herman, Sam Paulson, Carla Estevez, Carrie Thompson, Catherine Seifer, Rameauvel Wood, Neva Grant, and Elaine Coates. I'm Guy Raz, and you've been listening to The Advice Line right here on How I Built This Lab.