How I Built This with Guy Raz - Advice Line with Isaac Larian of MGA Entertainment

Episode Date: July 31, 2025

Isaac Larian is the founder of MGA Entertainment, the company behind Bratz and LOL Surprise dolls. This week, he joins Guy on Advice Line to answer questions from three early-stage entrepreneurs. Plus, Isaac talks about the effects of tariffs on the toy industry. First, we meet Meghan from Nashville, who finds that the customer for her educational toys may not be who she thought. Then, Libie from New York wants to grow her orthopedic cork insole business and to expand her customer base. And finally, Robin from Steamboat Springs gets advice about first impressions for her kid-exclusive outdoor apparel company.Thank you to the founders of T is for Tot, Fulton, and Town Hall Outdoor Co. for being a part of our show.If you’d like to be featured on a future Advice Line episode, leave us a one-minute message that tells us about your business and a specific question you’d like answered. Send a voice memo to [e-mail] or call 1-800-433-1298.And be sure to listen to Isaac tell the story of how MGA Entertainment was founded during his first visit to the show back in 2024.This episode was produced by J.C. Howard with music by Ramtin Arablouei. It was edited by Andrea Bruce. Our audio engineer was Jimmy Keeley.You can follow HIBT on Twitter & Instagram and sign up for Guy's free newsletter at guyraz.com and on Substack.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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tall windows, beautiful old details, and plenty of space for all of us. And being in that home on Airbnb, right in the middle of Vienna, walking distance from so much of the city made it feel less like a visit and more like we were actually living there. Plus, taking a trip is the perfect time to host your space on Airbnb. Your place with a place with a all of its personal touches and its amazing location could make someone else's vacation even better. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.ca.com Hello and welcome to the advice line on how I built this lab. I'm Guy Raz. This is the place where we help try to solve your business challenges. Each week, I'm joined by a legendary founder, a former guest on the show who will help me try to help you.

help you. And if you're building something and you need advice, give us a call and you just might be the next guest on the show. Our number is 1-800-433-1298. Send us a one-minute message that tells us about your business and the issues or questions that you'd like help with. You can also send us a voice memo at hibt at id.wondry.com and make sure to tell us how to reach you. And also don't forget to sign up for my newsletter, it's full of insights and ideas from the world's greatest entrepreneurs. You can sign up for free at gairoze.com. And we'll put all this info in the podcast description. All right. Let's get to it. Joining me today is Isaac Larian, founder and CEO of MGA Entertainment, the toy company behind Bratz Dolls and LOL Surprise. Isaac, welcome back to the show. Thank you, guys. Thanks for having me again. It's great to have you back on. So we first had you on in 2020. And you told us the amazing story about how you moved from Iran to the U.S. when you were just 17 years old.

He had a couple hundred bucks. You spoke almost no English. And then you would go on to build one of the largest privately owned toy companies in the world. It is an amazing story. And if you guys haven't heard this one, you've got to check it. We'll put a link to it in the podcast description. Before we bring it on our callers today, I want to ask you a couple questions. And first and foremost, I want to talk to you about something that I know is to be.

top of mind for you because you've been all over the media talking about it, and that's tariffs. Obviously, a lot of what you do is imported. You make dolls, toys for kids, and this is your business. Yes, sir, guys, tariffs are basically tax in the toy industries, tax on children. And these tariffs are not going to be paid by the toy companies or any company. they're not going to be paid by retailers, they're going to be paid by the consumers. We MGA owns the largest toy factory in America. In Hudson, Ohio, we employ 700 workers. Wow.

And you cannot make everything in America. Right, you've got to import components and parts, right? Yeah, right. Yeah, exactly. And Milton Friedman said this 40, 50 years ago. He used a pencil as an example. where the wood is made in America, the lead is made in South Africa, the eraser is made somewhere else. So that's the way it is. Yeah. And so it sounds like what you're saying,

Isaac, is that in principle, you're not opposed to targeted tariffs, let's say on steel or, you know, or energy or other things, but it's it's on consumer products like toys where obviously you have an interest in it. It's really hurting your business and hurting the industry. Yeah, it is. And I think there has to be a moderation. Yeah. All right. Well, let's turn to some other issues now because I know that you have had some major viral hit toys, right? Beyond Brats. Yes. A lull surprise, for example. I'm sure a lot of our callers today are going to be curious, you know, to know if there's any secrets or insights that you can share. Like, how do you get a product to go viral? Is there a lot of. a formula that you have, how do you make a product really break out into the mainstream?

Yeah, that's a great question. I think innovation is the mother of all successes. And, you know, first of all, I want to take a step back. In order to be successes as an entrepreneur, you must embrace failure. And for every success that we have had, we have had, we have had 10 failures. I love that. So you have to embrace failure. So the first thing is to have that mindset. I'm going to try, I'm going to fail, and I'm going to try again, I'm going to fail, I'm going to try again until one hit the chances are it will hit.

We have a record of that. Once you have a great product, then you have great marketing teams who market the product. And marketing in toys changes every day. I mean, there was a time when we put brats on the Nickelodeon, and that's how it became successful. Yes, I remember that story you told me, yeah. Yeah, and today, no more Nickelodeon. It was YouTube, now YouTube has gone to TikTok.

God knows what's going to come next. So you're going to be on the lookout for it all the time and change. Be a chameleon. All right, Isaac, you ready for our first caller? Yes, please. All right, let's bring them on. Welcome to the advice line you're on with Isaac Larian, founder of MGA Entertainment. Please tell us your name where you're calling from.

Just one line about your business, please. Hi, Guy. Hi, Isaac. My name is Megan, and I'm calling from Hendersonville, Tennessee. My company is T is for taught, and we create learning play kits for kids for kids ages 3 to 6. Nice. We ship these educational kits all over the country. and our kits are designed to support early learning through play-based hands-on activities.

Welcome to the show, Megan. Thanks for calling. So T's for T's for this is a subscription box, basically, for three to six-year-olds. Yes, it is. And they're thematic or they're based around like different themes each month that they get a box? Exactly, yes. Every single month, there's a new educational theme. There's about 12 activities in every single kit. So for instance, for June's kit, we have ice cream scientist, and the kids actually get to become an ice cream scientist. There's math, there's five motor skills, a lot of play-based education. 90% of a child's brain is developed by the age of five. So we want to make learning fun, and we want to give them a strong foundation before they start kindergarten. When did you found the business?

It was actually back in 2020, the day before I had my second son. And tell me the inspiration, the idea behind it. Why did you want to do this business? Yeah. So prior to being a stay-at-home mom, I was a teacher, a kindergarten teacher in Nashville, Tennessee, for close to a decade. And when 2020 came, I decided this was a great time for me to stay home for my two boys. And I wanted to start a business that was always in the back of my mind. And by the time my kids started school, I wanted this to be a full-fledged business. So that's where we're at now. My second sign is about to start kindergarten. Wow. Okay. Awesome. And what's your question for us? Yeah. So with T.S. for Todd, we built something that parents and kids really love. But how do I break through the noise and get real traction with PR brand visibility without having to hire a full service PR agency? I've tried some DIY outreach and influencer gifting with very limited

success. So I'm looking for an effective budget-friendly approach. All right. Still, lots of questions. for you, Megan. I want to bring in Isaac, Larry and Isaac, before we answer Megan's questions, any questions for her? No, that's a great niche, Megan. And if you tweak it and do it right, I think it would become a major, major success.

I have five grandchildren and my daughter-in-law and everybody's talking about having toys that bring learning, safe learning to their kids before they go to kindergarten. So it's a great niche. Thank you. Megan, I had curiosity, I mean, it's a, as you say, it's, you know, you are small. You don't have a huge marketing budget. How are you doing? I mean, is the business sustainable yet? Are you profitable? Are you, is it, you know, overall, how are things doing? So we are cash flow positive. Everything is being, we don't have any investors or anything. We've grown 250% from 23 to 24. And we're well into the six figures on track for next year to do seven figures. figures. Wow. So you're, that's great. Well, congrats on that. So your issue is how do you get more, more visibility? And I would say, I mean, let's just, we're talking to Isaac as a toy expert.

I also have a line of toys with my, I do a kids podcast called Wow in the World and we, we sell our toys or science kits, basically. So, Isaac, we're not competing against you. We're selling like volcanoes, kits and stuff. Competition is good. We're going after you, Isaac. No, we sell them at, you know, through Amazon and and at Target and Walmart. And so it's tough, right? It's really tough to break. I mean, Isaac mentioned this, I think is really critical, is you've got to have like

several failures before you get a hit. And so, you know, there's a challenge. How do you get, how do you get people to not only become aware of it, but interested in it? And I wonder what kind of things have you done that so far that you've tried that don't seem to have worked? So what has worked has been meta ads. and I honestly, I've tried to do some gifting on influencers. Honestly, there's been like no traction with that one.

The only thing that's really working is just meta ads. So that's about all we've been able to accomplish. I've reached out. I've done a lot of PR as far as like there's been, you know, a lot of emails sent, but not much has I've gotten from it. Isaac, let's say you're doing $7,800,000 in sales a year. Right. How much of that would you, and that's not your profit, right?

That's your sales. How much of that would you devote to marketing? Yeah, it's a great question. So before I answered that, I need to know what kind of margins you're making. Because you need to have enough money for marketing. If you sell something too cheap, then you have no marketing. And it's a vicious cycle. So is it to 60, 70 percent?

What's your gross margin? We are making about 40% of every kit at the moment, and that's including CAC and some other stuff as well, customer acquisition. Okay, and what price are you selling them at? They start at 3895, and they go to 42.95, and then the individual kits are $48. Okay, my first advice for you is raise prices. There is no difference between 38 and 49. So trust me, nothing will change. Actually, sometimes psychoanalysis, actually sometimes psychoanalysis. logically, when you sell something a little bit more expensive, you sell more of them. Because people think, oh, that's a great thing.

That will give you more marketing muscle. And then I am not a fan of PR agencies. You've got to do it on your own. You've got to think outside the box. The meta is fine. But you're going to go to TikTok for your product, the core customer. Who do you think is your core customer? Moms.

I disagree. You see, it's not. It's the grandparents, is the gift givers. So you need to start marketing to grandparents. Once you start marketing to grandparents, because they want to take care of our gift givers. They want to take care of their children or grandchildren, and they have a lot more disposable income. So I think I would change and market to grandparents. And you can look them up and see there are different group, grandparents, groups out there. And you should start marketing to them. As far as the influencers are concerned, they get overwhelmed with everything. And they like free things. And they get them and they don't do much with it. So it has to be really viral. I mean, somebody has to get by, actually.

A famous parent should buy one of your products, and they talk about it on social media. Once they do that, you get a big break. I love that idea because it really does kind of force you, I think, Megan, to think more deeply about pushing this towards that specific audience. I mean, it's worth trying out, you know, your own sort of videos. where it's specifically designed for grandparents. Just try that.

I mean, in addition to, you know, videos for moms, because you are thinking about people like you buying it, right? Which we all do. We're all like, oh, people like me are going to buy this. But actually, I think Isaac's onto something. I think that's exactly right, Isaac. It's that it's grandparents sending their grandkids as a subscription knowing that, you know,

they're going to help make their grandkids smarter. Yes, exactly. And Megan, when you do that, do the videos, you've got to think outside the box. I mean, the biggest happiness for anyone, you have two kids you see it, is a laughter of a child. Nothing replaces that. So you're going to shoot videos where kids are just on their own playing with your product. And then edit that and put that on. That's how it becomes viral. Okay. That's awesome advice. Thank you so much. Yeah, I love it. The brand is called T.S for Todd. Megan Foster. Thank you for calling in.

Thank you. I'm a huge fan. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks. Good luck. Thank you. Isaac, how much of your disposable income do you spend on your grandkids? Oh, God. If I could and my kids will let me, I would spend all of it on them. Because they are, you know, I say grandkids are much better than children. Yeah.

I joke and I say, God gives you grandkids. as a reward for not killing your children when they were growing up. We're going to take a quick break, but when we come back, another caller, another question, and another round of advice. I'm Guy Raz. Stick around. You're listening to the advice line on how I built this lab. Welcome back to the advice line on how I built this lab. I'm Guy Raz. And my guest today is Isaac Larian, founder and CEO of the toy company, MGA Entertainment. We are taking your calls. And let's bring in our next caller. Hello.

Hi, Guy. Isaac. My name is Libby Mochan. and I'm calling in from New York City. I am the co-founder of Fulton. Fulton is a modern brand of arch support. We offer comfortable, supportive, and sustainable insoles that mold to your arch to provide customized support and relieve pain at a fraction of the price of custom orthotics. Cool. So these are insoles that are designed to relieve, to help with arch support, which I love because

I wear Birkenstock shoes. I wear Birkenstock slippers. I'm wearing Birkenstock slippers right now because of the arch support, that cork that you get with a Birkenstocks. I was a big fan of arch support. Yeah. These are also made of cork. Cool. A lot of people have collapsed arches. And so tell me how you came up with this idea, because it seems like a category ripe for disruption. Yeah, that's exactly right. I mean, I was experiencing back pain. I was treating it very reactively doing things like taking painkillers and getting massages. And then I went to a chiropractor and he explained to me

that those shoes don't have proper art support, and that causes misalignment and pain throughout your body, not just in your feet, but also in your knees, your hips, and your back. But the customer orthotics that he was offering were $500. And at the time, my health insurance didn't cover it. And it just felt like a very high price point to pay for what, to me, was just an achy back.

So instead, I went to the drugstore, and I found myself looking at this wall of brands of insults. The Dr. Scholes and the Super Souls. And yeah, whatever they're called super speed or whatever. Yeah. Very confusing. All these words I didn't know and also materials that were more like gels and foams that didn't really provide support, more just fishinging. I thought there must be something else out there.

And yeah, there wasn't. So it decided to build it. Wow, that's awesome. And so these are made out of cork now, your insoles. They're hard. They're not like gel. Yeah. The base of them is cork, which is a great material.

It molds to your feet as you walk, similar to Birkenstocks. And it's incredibly sustainable. it's actually the bark of a tree. And then we line it with a layer of natural foam. And then on top is a layer of vegan leather that's made of cactus. So totally sustainable. They're actually carbon negative to manufacture. And they have a sort of a combination of comfort and support with the cork and the foam.

Tell me, tell us a little bit about how the business is doing so far. You launched in 2021, you said? Yeah, we launched in 2021. Last year we did high seven figures. and we've been growing really quickly. It's been a great process. I've been working on it full time, and I have been working on it full time since we launched. But yeah, with this growth comes some growing pains. Yes. All right. So what's your question for today? Yeah. So Fulton has grown very quickly over the last few years, but we're now feeling the effects of this growth on our resources

and on our cash flow. Given the current macro instability, the tariffs, and also our lack of resources, how should we think about growth moving forward? All right, Isaac Larian, in Seoul's cool, cool category, lots of growth, but now there's the growing pains. Right. Are you making your product in the USA? Where are you making them? They're manufactured in Portugal.

That's where most of the world's cork is harvested. Oh, good. So you only pay 10% duty. For now, yeah. Yes. Don't say it too loud. I don't think he will change that. So that's, yeah.

Yeah. So that's the good news. how much money you think you're going to need to grow your business? Well, I think that's a good question. It depends on how quickly we decide to grow. If we sort of want to stay in like single digits or low double digits growth, we could probably grow without like raising any capital. But if we wanted to grow significantly, I think that would require more capital.

We are planning on launching into a new category, which is like slippers for at home. So we are considering either doing like a pre-order to help with cash flow. or alternatively could try and raise capital. But honestly, that's something that we want to avoid. So you've not raised anything yet. It's been entirely self-funded. No, no, we did a small, like, angel and friends and family round when we first launched, but have not raised since we're not venture backed.

How big is this market? I think it's about $1.5 billion. So we have less than 1% of it. So there's definitely a lot of opportunity, we believe. Yeah, so I am against giving a portion of my company to a stranger unless it's absolutely needed. That partner should bring something to the table. And that is not just the money. Maybe they have operation experience.

Maybe they have distribution and retail experience. And it's a tough market now, but there are people who are lending or investing. If you have a great business plan, I would do a great business plan. I would show that this is an industry, this is $1.5 billion. I've been growing a double digit for the past few years, and that's where the sky is. And then look for investors. You should have that in order to do this. But again, I would hire what I call or partner with somebody who can bring something else to the market.

I mean, do you want to sell this to mass retailers? I think potentially, I mean, so far we've been focused really on our direct-to-consumer channel because that's where we know best and has been growing so quickly. But I definitely see an opportunity to get into Target and differentiate because that's the first place that I went when I was looking for insults. Yeah. Yeah, Target is best for it. But if you're going to invest with somebody, find somebody who can get you into Target,

somebody who has experienced to do that because they have 2,000 stores and all of a sudden you put two feet of one feet section, it eclipses direct to marketing. But you have to have a niche in your packaging and your product to not get lost in the clutter of other products. Yeah, you know, Isaac, while we've been talking, I've been looking at your site, Libby, and I went ahead and while we're talking, I ordered a pair of the classic insoles to because they look really cool. And there is a big opportunity here. Who, in terms of the person you're going after, are you going after people who are just walking and going to work?

Or are you also targeting, you know, athletes and runners, for example? Yeah. I mean, we do both. I mean, I think we sort of say anyone with pain is a great market. I'd say a lot of our customers are people who work for many hours of the day on their feet. So that could be a doctor or a professor or a bartender. And then, yeah, of course, people who are very active will often develop more issues related to unsupportive shoes. You know, Isaac, they're also doing something really interesting here. I think you're doing a lot of things right. So when I went to the checkout while we were talking, it offered me another deal.

And then I said, no, I don't want. And then it offered me another deal. And I was like, I thought about it. You know, you're offering. Do you want to order three more for this, you know, 40% off? And I think that's really smart. I looking at the way you're running your business, Libby, I'm going to go on a limb here, Isaac. I'm going to say they should keep doing what they're doing as long as they can and keep growing as much as they can for as long as they can before they go out and raise more money.

But you're right. When they do raise money, it's got to be somebody with strong CPG experience who has connections at Target and Walmart and who can really not just get you on the shelves there, but can get you. you maybe an N-cap or can get you, you know, like maybe a promotional, you know, partnership as well. Yeah, I agree with you 100%. You know, maybe as big as MGA is, we don't have a bank line. We don't have any investors in here because I did that previously. And the banks and the investors are for you when it's sunny, when it rains, they all run away. So I agree with Guy.

I think you should self-run it as much as possible and then get it into mass merchants. Yeah. Do you see this brand as like down the road as a target for acquisition by like a Dr. Scholes or one of these bigger brands? I think so. I mean, I think there's a lot of different brands that we could work with that can be great partners,

whether it's someone that offers existing insoles and wants to expand their category, or it could be a comfort footwear brand, or it could be something more in like the CPG category. I think there's a lot of great potential partners. And then down the road, do you see yourself potentially expanding into other categories, like actually like footwear? Yeah, it's definitely something they were considering. I mean, we very much listened to our customers, and that was why we started with slippers.

It felt it was the product that everyone asked for the most. They said, you know, we can put folded insoles in our shoes as we're walking around, but we can't wear them when we're home. There's no, they don't really have supportive slippers, so that's why we're starting. but I think that there's opportunity for another brand of supportive cork footwear. For sure. Isaac, final thoughts for Libby? Yeah, I think you're on the right track. I don't know how you market testimonials, authentic testimonials is the best way of marketing. Oh, I bought this. I had my back pain and it changed my life. I think word of mouth is the best form of marketing and that's something else I would do.

Especially with a park like this, Isaac, when people are like, oh my gosh, you know, it completely helped with my posture and maybe offer people incentives. Offer them, you know, 20, 25% off or a free, you know, free pair if they're, if they'll do that, if they'll post about their experience. And then post that on your website. Testimonials is testimonials are one of the best, best way of marketing ever. Ask Isaac, look at Loll Surprise dolls, right? Exactly. I mean, millions and millions of kids unpacking those dolls. Right.

Good luck to you. Good luck, Libby. The brand is called the Fulton. Yeah, thank you so much. Congrats. Congrats. Thanks for calling in. Thank you.

Great advice, Isaac. Yeah, thank you. You're pretty good at it. You're pretty good at what you do. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. I have a lot of scars. All right.

We're going to take another quick break, but we'll be right back with another caller. Stay with us. I'm Guy Raz, and you're listening to the advice line right here on how I built this. Welcome back to the device line on how I built this lab. I'm Guy Raz, and today I'm taking calls with Isaac Larian of MGA Entertainment. So let's bring in our final caller. Hello. Hey, Guy and Isaac. I'm a first-time caller, long-time listener.

I'm Robin Hall from Town Hall. See what we did there. We're based in Steamboat Springs, Colorado. Town Hall Outdoor Code designs durable, purpose-built outdoor apparel for adventurous kids using sustainable materials. Think snow jackets, snow pants, and gear for every season for every kid to love outside. Awesome. Welcome to the show, Robin.

Thanks for calling in. So Town Hall only for kids. This is not like a brand for adults. Correct. We dabble in some adult hats and hoodies and some adult puffy's limited quantity. But nope, this is where laser focused on kids. And you're in Steamboat Springs, which has winter and summer activities. I'm sure mountain biking, hiking, hiking in the summer, or horseback riding in the winter,

obviously skiing and snowboard. Skie Town USA. Yep. Yeah. By the way, when did you found the business or launch it? We were a COVID baby. So 2020, March. I was working away at an incredible career at a little brand

called SmartWool. They make merino wool, socks, and apparel. And their parent company moved them to Denver. And our family looked at each other and said, we can't leave this incredible community of Steamboat Springs. I want to raise our kids here. So we're staying. And so I've got to do something. So it kind of came together in this

little Venn diagram where we said, why are we staying in steamboat? It's the kids in community. What are we good at? Outdoor apparel. And what are we passionate about? It's the planet. And keeping our kids dry and happy to play outside longer. So those four things met in the middle and town hall was born. That's awesome. So you already, I mean, you were at Smartwell. You already had industry experience. And you figure, hey, I've got the connections. I have nohow. Let's do this. And did you raise capital? Is it totally self-funded? It is self-funded. We are approaching a funding raise because we need to, as you'll hear from some of our questions, we have been, as my pal, Missy Park from Title IX says, we've been hitting singles. And it's

been going great. We're growing, you know, steadily. But boy, we need to start stringing together some doubles here to really give this a go. We hired our first employee. I took my first salary last year. So good things are happening. We're in, you know, distribution in REI. We're partnering with Title IX on a jacket this fall. But really there's, you know, we see the opportunity. It's proven. we need to get some money in to really keep driving. Got it. Okay. And what's your question for us?

Yeah. My question is, Isaac, gosh, your grit and ability to take big risks is awesome, and I'm in awe. So we're wondering, what bold move would you make to help town hall break out and how do you know when it's worth the risk? All right. Great question. Isaac Larian. Robin, before I answered that question, I have a few questions. Please.

How big is your business? Yeah. We're hoping to do 300K this year. Okay. And what profit margins do you make? We're at about direct-to-consumer. We're at about 65-ish. And then, of course, we do.

We're in about 17 wholesale stores around the country. Okay. That's great. My last question is, why did you call your company Town Hall? My name is Robin Hall. So he needed to do something with my last name. It works well. And a town hall is a community gathering place

where everyone's welcome to share ideas, impart change, and come together. It's kind of the community hub, and that's what we like to be. Okay, I appreciate it. So sorry for being very direct, but it's great that you're using your last name in the business, but that name town hall doesn't resonate with the product you're selling. The first thing I would do is come up with the name that people can relate to, so they don't think about a town hall with President Trump or somebody else. But that's the first thing I would do.

It could be a division of the town hall, but change the name because names matter. And I'm going to give you one example. You know, when we came up with brats, we came with over 25, 30 different names. And we tested them. None of them resonated. it. And I wanted to have a five or six leather word for the brand. So, and Bratz with an S had a negative connotation with it. So we went with Brats. That was a gusty move to do. We changed this S to Z. And if you look at the Brat's logo, it has a halo on the top. That means that they're

angels. But the name by itself created newsworthy buzz. and was very important to change the company. As far as raising money, I don't like private equity. Bank loans are okay. I wouldn't give a portion of my business to somebody else. I would try to sustain the business I have, have a business plan, go to your local bank and get a loan and to fuel your company, to fuel your company.

Isaac, first of all, I appreciate your very, very, very honest feedback. And here's what I would say to you about that, Robin. We have had, I would say, more than you would imagine brands on this show that four, five years in changed their name. Poppy is a great example. Poppy, which was sold for $1.8 billion, did not start out as Poppy. Start out as like Mother's Earth or something like that. And they only changed it to Poppy in 2019, like, five. four years in. So it's not as sort of daunting as it sounds. I mean, you could still continue to call a town hall and continue to sell the apparel and disregard Isaac's advice. But if it's something that you did want to think about, it's very doable and it's very, it's a lot more common than you imagine. So it is a possibility and not to say you don't have to do it. You should do it or not, but I'm just saying it's a here. Here's what I would say about a bold move. One of the things that I've noticed, right, and I'm sure you know this, is that kids, especially, the target age you're talking about, they just get crazy for a certain kind of brand. Like,

especially, you know, I look at my boys now, they're all wearing Viori. I don't know why. All of a sudden, they are, we did Biori on the show a couple of years ago. They're all, they all want to wear Viori. Girls, Aviator Nation, the preteen girls all want to wear that sweatshirt. And so what is it that they're doing? I think it's worth exploring to see who is wearing that product and why and how do you identify those people? What kind of marketing have you been able to? Obviously, you're limited with your budget, but what kind of marketing have you seen that's maybe worked for you so far? Yeah, I mean, back to this kind of community notion. We did 84 days of events last year from everything from the Vale Kids Adventure Games to partnering with

REI, the Denver flagship and having an event outside and bringing kids into our local. farmers market. And those go really far. Having me, the founder, tell the story one-to-one, giving high-fives, handing out stickers and free frisbys to kiddos are great. That said, it's hitting singles. So that type of marketing is very low budget, a lot of hustle. Those are the areas we thrive on. But yes, that is one area where marketing is, we just need to raise our brand awareness, for sure. I think you're going to take a look at this and look at the bigger picture. You've got to think, okay, I'm going to sell my product all over the USA all over the world. So what is your niche? What's the difference between your product or somebody else's? It's our focus on kids and that

it's built and tested and designed for kids by kids. We do these things called Kids Sumer Insights, where we get kids on a blanket in the grass and we ask them a million questions about what they need out of a jacket, how they want to stay warm, what they think about colors, and then they inform everything we do. So we're not just doing that kind of shrink-it and pink-it notion that a lot of outdoor brands do for women and kids. We are really leaning into kids. And then parents love it. And they hand it. It's so durable. They get to hand it down, you know, to three or four kiddos in their family or community. Have you considered maybe talking to some of the parents, et cetera, who use your product and videotaping for them to praise your product and then put it on YouTube or Facebook or

other social media because I think that's one of the best ways for that market. That's a great call. Yep. And I think, you know, as much as I get daunted by that takes so much work or dollars, I think, honestly, the authenticity and it's very town hall just to have an iPhone and be doing quick interviews. So to your point, yes, noted, that's a good one. Yeah. I agree with that, Isaac. I mean, I think that the most authentic, your most authentic sales reps are parents who are like, because I'm looking at your site now and you click on a jacket and you've got this cool thing at the bottom, the burrometer, warm, warmer, warmest, the splashometer, dry, dry, or driest, which is super cool. So you want to hear the parent say, this jacket is the best

jacket I bought for my kid. Like, it's the only one that I've ever bought where my kids not whining about being cold, you know, and I think that that's something that you could do, you know, fairly low cost. I love that. I love that. And, you know, one of the challenges we have is where ages kind of five to 14. And so, gosh, when it comes to social media, we're really only talking to kiddos on that upper end. And so we're really successful in the five to ten, you know, small medium are our most successful sizes.

So to your point, it's hitting the parents because those kiddos don't have phones yet, and thankfully. And, you know, the parents are really the influencers there. So great call. Isaac, really quick back to you about Robin's question, about a bold move. You said, forget about private equity and loans and all these. And I guess I want to push back on that a little bit.

I mean, obviously the brand is still small. But if there was a partner who is, you know, experienced in the industry like Robin is, but who has capital and a good distribution network, why not come up with some kind of partnership or bring on some investor? I tell you, the devil is in the detail. Most of this, what I have seen, they write the contract the way it is all. in their favor because you need the money and they have the money. And they hardly lose money. They take over your business.

So you lose your business. If you have people who you trust is very important to be partner with you. That's the first thing. And secondly, get a good lawyer to make sure that you're protected down the road. Otherwise, I wouldn't do it. I mean, you can borrow money at the lower, a lower rate from a bank and they don't have ownership. I would go that route first and then I would go to get an investor

if I cannot get enough money from my bank and be very careful with the contract. You spend the money higher experience lawyer to read your contract so you're not taking advantage of. Great. I love that advice. Robin Hall, the brand is called Town Hall Outdoor Company. Thanks so much for calling in.

Change the name, Robin. All right, I'll let you know. I'll keep you posted. Appreciate you guys so much. Thank you, Robin. All right, thanks. You know, what, we had, we did an episode of our show with Simon Cowell, you know, from America's talent, right? Yes. And I asked him, I said, you know, you're mean to people. And he said, no, I'm not mean. I'm honest. When I say to somebody, don't pursue singing because you're not going to make a living off of it. I'm not trying to be mean. I'm trying to help them think about other ways for them to live their life.

lives. You know, and I'm taking some inspiration from him. When you say to somebody, hey, change your name, I think that's, you know, it's, you're being honest. You feel like they have potential. And one of the ways that they could maybe improve what they're doing is by changing the name. Yeah, exactly. But also the other thing is, you know, I teach entrepreneurship once in a while at UCLA and Calcid, L.A. And there was one guy in one of the classes that it's been great. going to school for the past 25 years. And I said, what do you want to do? He says, I want to be an entrepreneur.

I said, you know, entrepreneurship is not for everybody. It looks like you're a professional student. And at the beginning, he got a little offended. But later on, he sent me a note and says, thank you so much, nobody ever there to give me that advice. And you're right. And now I'm going into teaching rather than a student. starting your business. I love it. That's awesome. It's awesome. Isaac, before I let you go,

a question for you that I ask every guest who comes on to join me on the advice line, which is now with all of your experience, you know, you've offered a lot of advice now today to people. If you could go back to you when you were, you know, in your early 20s, still just trying to figure out what to do with your life. And what advice would you give to yourself back then? I would not change anything to guy. You know, I, As you know, I washed dishes and waited restaurants until I got my civil engineering degree. And my graduation day was the most depressing day in my life because I said, my God, what am I going to do with this? Go work for California Highway Patrol and make $60,000 a year.

That's not what I wanted to do. But, you know, my kids, as they were growing up, they asked me, Dad, when you're going to, at a civil engineering degree, what did you do with it? You never worked at a civil engineering. Why go to school? And my answer to them is engineering teaches you how to solve problem. And when you run a business, you have to solve problems on a daily basis. So it's like a brain muscle. So I would not change anything. I would not change anything, really. I love it. That's Isaac Larian, founder and CEO of MGA Entertainment, the brand behind Brett's dolls and Lull Surprise and so many others, Isaac,

thank you so much for coming back onto the show. Guy, thank you for having me. I appreciate it. And by the way, if you haven't heard the story of MGA Entertainment, Isaac's episode, you've got to go back and check it. I know I say this every time, but please do it. It is a fantastic episode. I actually just made a social media clip about the power of no

and how Isaac really learned that the word no is not the end, but the beginning of a conversation. So go check out that episode. and here is one of my favorite moments. I went to a guy named Ron Stover, who was the buyer at Walmart. Very tough to sell products to. I came to the next doll.

He said, no. One day he took me to Walmart and showed me this 98 feet of Barbie products. He says, Isaac, you see this? They own 90% market share. They sell, and I make my bonuses every year. I said, Ron, What if I came up with something better than Barbie and you didn't buy it?

You're going to feel it after that. So I came back and told my design team, give me something that competes with Barbie. Hey, thanks so much for listening to the show this week. And by the way, please make sure to check out my newsletter. You can sign up for it for free at gairoze.com or on Substack. And of course, if you're working on a business and you like to be on this show, send us a one minute message that tells us. us a little bit about your business and the questions or issues you are currently facing because

we would love to try and help you solve them. You can send us a voice memo at hibt at id.wondery.com or call us at 1-800-433-1298. You can leave a message there and make sure to tell us how to reach you. And by the way, we'll put all of this in the podcast description as well. This episode was produced by J.C. Howard with music composed by Ramtin Arablewe. It was edited by Andrea Bruce. Our audio engineer was Jimmy Keely. Our production team also includes Alex Chung, Carla Estevez, Casey Herman, Elaine Coates, Chris Messini, Catherine Seifer, Carrie Thompson, Sam Paulson, and Neva Grant. I'm Guy Raz, and you've been listening to The Advice Line on how I built this lab.