How I Built This with Guy Raz - Airbnb's Joe Gebbia At The HIBT Summit

Episode Date: December 6, 2018

Next in our series of episodes from the How I Built This Summit: Joe Gebbia, co-founder of Airbnb. Joe sat down with Guy Raz in front of a live audience in San Francisco, and talked about why he and his co-founders pursued their idea despite overwhelming feedback that it would never work. We're publishing another two episodes from the Summit – so keep checking your podcast feed every Thursday.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Airbnb.ca.ca. slash host. Hey, it's Guy here. Today, we've got another brand new episode from the How I Built This Summit in San Francisco that happened this past October. And this one is from my live interview with Joe Gebia, the co-founder of Airbnb. Now, I first talked with Joe back in October of 2016 for one of our very first episodes. And if you haven't heard about the wild roller coaster ride of starting Airbnb, you should definitely go back and give that episode a listen. Because Joe and his co-founders, they really went through major changes and pivots and disappointments and failures before they hit on the idea that today, we all recognize as one of the most iconic travel brands in the world. So when I sat down with Joe back in October, I wanted to spend time talking

with him about why they never gave up, even when lots of people were saying that idea was never going to work. Joe, Guy, it is, it is absolutely amazing that 10 years ago, no one in this room, no one listening, no one in the world could have imagined that people would be sleeping at the homes of random strangers. So, let's start with the idea. the beginnings of Airbnb, go back to 2008, really at this point, nobody wants to invest in this business. If you remember the podcast, they emailed 20 investors, 10 replied, five agreed to have coffee with them, none invested.

I mean, I'm not surprised that at the time people are telling you this is a stupid idea and it's not going to work, right? Because that's what you were hearing. We got that. I can tell you all the times and show you all the emails from really credible investors, like people that, they're investors that picked Google and PayPal and YouTube and Facebook and all of the kind of internet grades that came before us.

And so sitting in their offices, it was just demoralizing to be sitting across from somebody who has a good instinct for a good idea, apparently based on their portfolio, and to look at you and just say, this is never going to work. Or there was one investor that,

we'll go unnamed, who said, you should really focus on church groups and then he said, but you know what, church groups aren't a big, it's not a big market, so I'm going to pass on this. Because he couldn't get over the hump of how could you possibly build a company that's based on strangers posting pictures of the most intimate parts of their home, their bedroom, their kitchen, their bathroom on the internet, and people are going to pay to come stay in their home. Yeah.

Yeah, that's going to be big. But in their defense, Joe, like, I think most of us in this room, probably would have agreed with them 10 years ago. I mean, I think that it was a weird idea. It was so weird that it was kind of a dumb idea. All right. 40, 50 billion dollar company today, but let's put that aside. I mean, people were probably saying that to you over and over again. Like, this is just, like, move on. Do, try something else. Is that, was that happening? That was absolutely happening. And, you know, the truth is, if you made decisions based on what a spreadsheet tells you.

spreadsheet said, this is not going to work, get a job, or start something else. Like, it was highly irrational to keep going with our product. And I'll never forget when we went home, Brian, my co-founder and I, he went back to upstate New York. I went back to Georgia. So the holiday, we went home for Christmas, 2007. And you go home for the holidays and what do people ask? What are you up to? What are you doing? How's the year been going for you? And so, you know, neither of us really had a lot to say about the year, except this one time when people stayed in our apartment during a design conference. And one of two things happened.

Like, people were either like, oh, my God, tell me more. This is really interesting. Or people went, oh, my God, you're insane. Yeah. And they would leave the conversation. And there was something about that visceral reaction that it got out of people where Brian and I were like, maybe there's something here. Maybe this is, there's more to this than we think.

And there were enough people that wanted to hear more about it that said, yeah, I'd travel like that. Or, you know, when I was in college, I was traveling through, Europe and, you know, I'd get off the train station and a woman would be standing there, said, Pinsion with a sign, we'd go and stay in her place. Yeah. So, like, people started to tell stories about actually, you know, people are already traveling this way.

It's just not formalized. It's not easy. Yeah. But when so many smart people that you respect tell you you're wrong, tell you your idea is bad, when do you know that they're wrong? Did you think they were wrong or did a part of you think maybe they're right? this is the part where in your head as an entrepreneur, you go a little bit crazy because you bounce back and forth between like,

wow, that's a really smart person. They said this idea sucks. Are they right? And then you go home and you're like, no, I'm sticking with this. I'm going to make this happen. Like, they can't tell me this is wrong. And I think maybe it's a personality trait. For me, you know, that kind of stuff actually fuels me.

There were times at studying design at RISD where professors would tell me something couldn't get done. and that was all I needed actually. I mean, I'm interested in this because not everyone's wired that way, and maybe you aren't either. Maybe sometimes you were, you did kind of give up.

Well, here's something that's very important to know about our story, is that if you look at Airbnb from 2008 onward, you're missing a big chunk that took place before Airbnb because I've worked on a lot of ideas that were really bad. You just haven't heard of them because they never went anywhere.

And so I think it really takes, you know, being what I would say in the gym of entrepreneurship, where you're just trying things. And it doesn't matter if it pans out or not. It's just about going through the process. I'll give you an example. I was working down the street here at Chronicle Books as a book designer when I first moved out to San Francisco. And every day I'd leave. And in the room, right where I was the exit was, there was this giant industrial-sized trash can,

one of those gray, big trash cans, overflowing with these white. books. And one day I went up and picked up the books and discovered they're completely blank. And I went to my manager at the time. I said, hey, what's going on with these books? He goes, oh, those are the proof books they do before they make a big run of a book? And I said, are they trash? He goes, yeah, they throw them away. And I go, can I have them? And he goes, sure. He looked to me really weird. Like, why do you want trash? I was like, these are perfect. These are like sketchbooks or journals or other things. And so I actually co-opted these books. I throw them in my bag. And for like a year and a half, I just gathered these books.

and I had the 2,000 of these books in my garage down the street that I collected. And the cool thing is everyone was different. No two were exactly the same. And then I came up with a rubber stamp. I gave it a brand, and I sold them online. I sold them at design fairs. And, you know, kind of a silly idea-ish. Didn't go anywhere.

But it was just like getting in the habit. You see something and you do something about it. Yeah. I mean, so we've done an episode about Slack, Stuart Butterfield. who's actually here in the audience. And really the story of Slack is a story of a completely different idea. It was supposed to be a game company called Glitch.

And that didn't work. That didn't work out. It was a beautifully designed. They kept at it. They kept going. They kept pushing forward. But eventually they had to give it up. And that was it.

That was going to be the sort of the end of the story. And Slack was kind of an accident because it was this internal messaging system that they created just so the engine, could talk to the marketing people, and it was this amazing serendipitous pivot. How did you guys know that you should just keep pushing forward? Were you talking about this? Was Brian saying, let's, we got to keep pushing forward.

Are you saying it? Here's where I go to when I think of that question. We had an experience that those investors didn't. We had three people stay in our home for five days. We knew exactly what that felt like. It was magical. I mean, getting to show them San Francisco, need to like really go from strangers to friends, but in such a short arc of time, for us was

like really inspiring. And one thing you just reminded me of is a piece of advice that Paul Graham, who started Y Combinator, gave us and gives all his startups, which is very simple. In a startup, do one thing, don't die. Keep going. Just figure out a way to keep going. I think your story about Stewart is so on point because it's just like keep going. You don't know like what. what you'll uncover or what other idea you'll stumble onto, you'll never get to idea C if you haven't tried A and B first. And if you get off on A, forget about it. And being mindful of folks in this audience who are early stage entrepreneurs,

there are times when it's better to kind of pack it in or pivot or give up on that idea and accept the failure and move on, right? Yes, probably. I think it's also worth remembering that the way that our service started, we thought the big, grand idea was airbeds for conferences. And we actually started, it was, it's very laughable, thank you. We thought that we were going to be an event website where conferences that sold out, people could inflate an airbed in their living room, and that was the big idea.

So our next iteration for South by Southwest in 2008 was literally a conference website. after the dud of that launch, we regrouped and listened to people's feedback, and then we launched again for the DNC, and that flopped. And then we watched a fourth time a year after that, and that's where the numbers finally started to click. The product and market actually had a fit. And so I think the important part there is that we were constantly listening and iterating. We got it wrong four times in a row.

And the good news, though, is that if you launch and it's a dud, you can launch again because nobody knew about the first one. So being an entrepreneur is not easy. That's why if it was easy, more people would do it. So there takes this kind of psychological strength to stick with it, even when there's no hope in sight and when spreadsheets tell you to do something else. But is that an inherent quality, or is that something that can be learned? I think it can absolutely be learned from my own experience.

I've looked back in my life, I've seen, I've recognized a pattern that whenever I've been uncomfortable with something, I tend, not all the time, but I tend to see that as an invitation to engage in it. So, for example, I was reminded recently, I was back on Rizzies campus a couple weeks ago for an alumni weekend, and I was walking around campus, and I remembered that how uncomfortable I was public speaking at that time in my life. I could not get in front of an audience. I was terrified, sweaty palms.

I'd be nervous, shaking. Which is a common feeling. Totally, right? And I knew that about myself. And so I purposefully signed up to be a tour guide on campus. Because I knew it would force me to be in front of people. To have to. Exposure therapy.

Is that what they called? Yeah, this was called. Yes. I didn't know this. Yeah. Okay. So that's one of a few examples. So you would force yourself to confront things that you were uncomfortable with.

And that's sort of how you practiced this kind of. Yeah. And I don't always do that. But there are times where there's something in front of me and I'm like, I don't want to do that. I don't want to talk to that person. I'm nervous. I'm intimidated.

They're more important to me. Like, whatever the excuses that goes on in your brain. Yeah. Like, I think an entrepreneur can reframe those things to say, oh, opportunity. Yeah. You really describe the emotional roller coaster of doing this. And something that so many founders experience and just kind of grind through it, even if it's difficult.

Let's put this in context for everybody. So over the years, so when you start, you do everything. So what do we do every role in the company? I remember in the earliest days, we realized, oh, wait, people are using our service now. We probably need a number for them to call if there's a problem. In a last-minute decision, I threw my number up on the website as customer service. And my phone almost immediately started ringing. and from that point for the next probably, gosh, I don't know, year and a half, I was very closely associated with customer service.

Eventually we hired a team, and they took it over and I got to get out of that a little bit. But people would call like in the middle of the night, hey, I'm trying to check into my place in Berlin and I can't find the host. How do I get the keys? And I have to like go scramble, get to my laptop, look up their account. It's like three in the morning in San Francisco. I'm just reminded of another story where I'm about to go to bed. It's 11 o'clock at night. I am just so tired.

And we're still working out of our apartment at this point. And I'm about to turn the computer off. And I go, I'll just check the Gmail inbox one more time. I'm about to close it out. I hit refresh, and sure enough, right at the top, there's a big bold black email subject line. It says, like, help with like 12 exclamation points. Oh, boy. So I click on it.

sure enough, it's this young couple in their 20s checking into the marina here in San Francisco. They're somewhere in the marina, their loss, their host isn't answering the phone, their phone doesn't work, they found Wi-Fi at a cafe nearby. They said we're standing at this intersection of like Laguna and something. And so I just jump in my Jeep. And I drive to the intersection and it's at night, it's 11 o'clock, it's dark, there's not a lot of streetlights, and I'm driving slow with the headlights on. And sure enough, on the corner, I see a couple with, you know, the big roller bags.

I'm like, I had to have a scarf. And, like, I just like, that's them. And so I pull up and I, like, wave in the window. And I had emailed them that I was coming, so it wasn't like this random guy in a car. I said, hey, it's Joe. I'm here. I made it. And at this point, I'm like, why don't you get in the car and we'll find a place for you? But I had no option.

to take them to, I'm just like, we're going to make this up as we go here. And so we start driving back to our apartment, and I'm talking to how is your trip. I'm really sorry about this. We'll get to the bottom of it. Don't worry. And as I'm driving back, I realize our friends had an apartment below us and they had an extra bedroom because the room it hadn't moved in yet. The only thing is it wasn't furnished.

I'm thinking to myself, okay, I've got a room. How do I get it furnished? The clock is ticking here. almost back to the apartment. They think I have a solution for them, but I don't. And I get them in the apartment. I bring it up to the living room, and I'm like, I get a beverage of some kind. And I said, just hang here for a minute. We're going to get the room ready for you. Meanwhile, I blitz down the hall, and I ripped the bed sheets off my bed, and I grab my mattress, and I drag it through the hallway. Thank God they couldn't see this part. And I'd

bring it downstairs. I'd been corresponding with my friend in the apartment, and I get in the room, and I go to make this bed quick. They make the bed. I run back upstairs to the couple. I say, your room will be ready in just a minute. And they end up staying in the room, and their stay in San Francisco went just fun. Amazing. Joe Gabia, co-founder of Airbnb, Joe, thank you so much. Thanks, everybody. Joe Gabbya joined me live on stage at the How I Built the Summit in San Francisco, which happened this past October at Yerba Buena Center for the Arts. We've got two more episodes from the summit coming up, so keep an eye on your podcast feed

and check out our Facebook page for a new bonus video from another summit speaker, Mora Aaron's Mealy. She's the author of the book, Hiding in the Bathroom, and she spoke at the summit about networking for introverts. And thanks for listening to today's episode. It was produced by Casey Herman with music composed by Rompin-Arablui. I'm Guy Raz, and you've been listening to How I've been listening to How I've built this from NPR.