How I Built This with Guy Raz - Hexclad: Danny Winer

Episode Date: April 28, 2025

Cookware is a $73 billion global industry - awash in all kinds of pots and pans. Like, if you’ve ever cooked scrambled eggs, you've probably used a non-stick frying pan. They’re inexpensive and everywhere. But they’ve been dogged by complaints: many can’t handle high heat, like broiling or searing, and they scratch easily. So, when Danny Winer came across a new non-stick technology at a trade show overseas, he jumped on it, co-founding Hexclad with a buddy. Danny was convinced it could be adapted to the U.S. market - and be a hit. He was right! In just under ten years, Hexclad grew into a $500 million company.This episode was produced by Kerry Thompson, with music by Ramtin Arablouei. It was edited by Andrea Bruce, with research help from Katherine Sypher. Our engineers were Jimmy Keeley and Gilly Moon. You can follow HIBT on Twitter & Instagram, and email us at [e-mail]. Sign up for Guy’s free newsletter at guyraz.com or on Substack.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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It had tall windows, beautiful old details, and plenty of space for all of us. And being in that home on Airbnb, right in the middle of Vienna, walking distance from so much of the city, made it feel less like a visit and more like we were actually living there. Plus, taking a trip is the perfect time to host your space on Airbnb. Your place with all of its personal touches and its amazing location could make someone else's vacation even better. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.ca.ca. We would literally line up boxes in Cole's backyard and we'd run down a line and I'd be like 12 inch pants, 12 inch pants, 12 inch pants.

Hand packaging them to save money. And then we'd be like taping them close. and we had so many paper cuts on our fingers that there sometimes would be little blood spots on the box, and we would have to take Windex and go back and clean the blood off the top of the box, and we would drive them to the Costco to sell them. Welcome to How I Built This, a show about innovators, entrepreneurs, idealists, and the stories behind the movements they built. I'm Guy Raz, and on the show today, how Danny Weiner grew hex-clad from a backyard business into a

$500 million cookware company in just under 10 years. Anything you use to cook food, pots, pans, Dutch ovens, they're part of a $73 billion global industry known as cookware. Everyone has to cook, right? But surprisingly, at least in the U.S., there aren't that many brands that people know. Sure, you might recognize All-Claid or Lodge or even Le Crosay. But for the most part, people tend to buy whatever's cheapest at Target or Walmart. And that's opened the doors to a bunch of new upstart brands over the past few years. One of these brands is called Hexclad.

It was launched about a decade ago by two guys who previously worked as sales reps for another cookware company that's no longer in business. Danny Weiner, one of the founders, discovered the pans at a trade show in China back in 2015. He was instantly intrigued by the Pan's non-stituary. features and its hexagon-like pattern on the surface. Danny would end up teaming with the inventor in Korea, rebranding the product as hexclad and coming up with a whole new line of cookware with that same surface. In 2024, barely a decade after its founding, hexclad sold over $500 million worth of its products. Now, when Danny first came across this technology, he and his

co-founder Cole McCray were running low on cash. Their previous business, which was selling high-end home juicers, was about to collapse. Danny went to that trade show in China as a kind of Hail Mary move, hoping for a miracle. Even more remarkable is that he never intended to become an entrepreneur, let alone an expert in cookware. Danny wanted to become an actor. He grew up in Buffalo, New York and studied film and theater at NYU. After graduating, he moved to Los Angeles where he hit round after round of auditions and cattle calls. I don't think I ever wanted to be a Brad Pitt level star.

I think what I wanted was just enough of it that I could like maybe go back to New York and call my shots in the theater, you know, and things like that and bounce back and forth and make a good living, but I didn't have to be worth hundreds of millions of dollars and, you know, be a Harrison Ford. And you could have. I mean, I'm looking at you. I mean, I could see you in Goodfellas or, you know, you could be, you know, sort of a, you could play an Italian guy or a Jewish guy or, you know, you play like a New York kind of character act type. Yeah. You know, listen, you, you, you wonder why these things don't work out for you at a given time. Yeah. You know, I always wonder, you know, does the universe give you success when you're ready to handle it?

I don't know. Could I've gone down, you know, the wrong path if it had been easy? So you get to L.A. And what did you do? Did you start to go on auditions? I started going on auditions. You know, it was so different than New York because I remember the first audition I went to. I showed up, you know, gave my resume, my headshot.

and they lined me up and they were looking at my height and then they go okay thanks for coming in and I'm like wait do I get to read or act no I'm the wrong height and I'm like how about a courtesy because like I might be wrong for this but you know I found out I think they they'd hired the girl who was going to be in it she was like 5-1 so they kind of wanted a guy who was like 5-8 now I'm 5-11 it was It was a very disrespectful process at the time I found. So this is a period of like roughly three years where you're sort of going back and forth in and out of auditions.

And did you ever land? I mean, you must have landed some things. It's funny. The things that you land that get you going and like I don't even have access to this, but a couple of like short films that never really got anywhere. Maybe they played in a festival, but it was a really good role type of thing. And I can't even go into detail because I just barely remember them. But then I get like a couple commercials.

And sometimes you have a line and sometimes you don't. Sometimes it's music and you're just on the beach and you're running around and, you know, and you and a girl are running down the sand. And, you know, and that's the commercial. And you're like, well, I guess it's acting in a way. Do you remember feeling anxious at that time, just feeling a lot of anxiety about the future and about life? There is a little bit, but I think in a way you still. I would say, you know, now I'm like, I'm probably about 27-ish.

I'm still dumb enough to think like that, oh, you know, it's not me, it's them. And they're going to see and people are going to want to hire me. But I think what started creeping in was I don't like failing at things. And I was beginning to feel like a failure. And the thing is when you fail, like look, you know, eventually at the end of the fourth quarter, right, they blow the whistle and the game's over. And there's no like, oh, I don't want to feel like a foul. Well, you did fail.

Today you failed. So now you have to, you know, dust yourself off and decide how do I win next time, whatever that looks like. And I think that feeling was beginning to creep into my mind. That one, I don't want to be seen as a failure. I don't like looking at myself in the mirror when I'm failing. Nobody, nobody does. Yeah.

Yeah. I guess around 1994 you get in a car accident, a bad one. Yes, very bad. And you ended up like having to go through rehab and like we were walking with a cane for like a long time, many months, back brace. What, what happened? I mean, were you just, I mean, yeah, I mean, what happened? Well, you know, this, it's obviously one of these life-changing moments. And, you know, it was a bad accident.

I shattered my right leg. I broke vertebrae in my back. And I had to get better. But, and obviously when you're young and broke, now you're even broker, but you're not younger. So, and during that period, I said, number one focus is I have to make money. I don't know what that looks like. I'd never been so poor.

You know, I had this moment. In fact, this is one of the, a pivotal moment in my life. And I don't know if I've ever told it publicly. I've told a few friends, but I was on crutches still. So I'd had like pins taken out of my leg, but I had to walk with crutches just because my legs weren't strong enough. And we lived, my buddy and I had a house in Eagle Rock, California. and we lived kind of on the side of the hill and I had no money and I you know at home I couldn't

work yet so I'd be up until he came home from work I'd be sitting in this house and you know we didn't have cell phones then you know I don't think we even had to internet then and the movie braveheart came out and I remember I had a free movie pass to the Glendale movie theater so I'm like I'm going to go see this movie to cheer me up And I crutch down the hill. And I go to the bus stop. You know, I have no car now. And I take the bus.

I see Braveheart. You know, it inspires me. And I come back. And I see there on the side of the road this, this gentleman who's standing there with bags of oranges. And I'm like, look, this poor guy's got to stand out here. I go, how much of the bag of oranges? He's like, $2.

I have $2 left after the movie thing. So I buy the bag of, oranges and he puts him in like a plastic shopping bag and you know I'm crutching up the hill and I get almost to the top of the hill and I'm exhausted and the bottom of the garbage bag rips and all my oranges start tumbling out and they're rolling all the way down the hill and I just I can't chase them I'm not physically able to chase them and I look down the hill and I start to cry And the thing is I'm not a, I don't cry often. And I start crying.

And I'm like, I can't believe I'm going through all this. And I had that moment of self pity. And then somehow I saw myself like in the third person, you know, on the hill with these crutches, with a torn plastic bag. And I just started laughing. And I'm like, I can't believe this is what I'm going through right now. But it was a pivotal moment for me. So, all right, so you go through this sort of traumatic accident and you are unable to work and clearly you haven't really managed to get any kind of traction as an actor. And I guess around this time, you had a friend who somebody you actually knew from NYU.

Yes. Who was, he was like selling cookware at trade shows. Mm-hmm. And I said, hey, do you want to help me out? Is that what happened around that time? That's exactly what happened. I hadn't worked yet. So I was just getting off my cane at that point.

Yeah. But I had to work. I had no money. And he said, listen, you know, you want to come to this convention center? We saw cookware. I'm like, cookware. He goes, yeah, he goes, I need somebody to help run the credit cards and stuff. He goes, I'll give you $500.

And I'm like, 500 bucks. Sweet. I'm there. And I went and helped him. And it was hard because it's 10 hours on your feet. And I'm like, I'm like, I was in a lot of pain, you know. So, but, you know, I saw him do well. And he's like, I go, if you need help again, let me know.

And he goes, well, I'm doing another one of these in, I don't know, a week or two. Do you want to help me? I'm like, yeah. And I'm like, whenever you need the help because at that point, I'm like, oh, I do have my days free. I can still go to an audition if I get. one and I can work these Friday, Saturday, Saturdays, and Sundays with him. And then I got good enough at it on my own that the company offered me to do my own events. And that's the first time where I go, I don't want to do this, but this makes sense because I can make money. I can make it quickly.

I can don't have to completely kill my dream yet. But I can get a lot of bang for my bucket. and I'm getting better and better at this. So this was, okay, your friend, he was for anybody. And what kind of cookware were they selling? Pans and pots and pans? Yep, pots and pans. And it was like a restaurant line of cookware. So you basically get a job as a sort of a commission-based sales rep for them.

And did they, I mean, did they put you through like sales training first before you started to go out and pitch? So essentially what wound up happening in my case. case was I had worked for months with my friend. Like once I started generating income for him as well, he's like, here, I'll pay you more because you're really valuable to me. I can go grab lunch and I come back and you made sales. So by the time I was offered this, you know, this spot, I was very good. Like, I was very trained. I knew the cookware space. So you're still, and so then you become a sales rep for this company. Yes. But, But you still had one foot in entertainment, right?

You were still kind of going to some auditions now and again, still thinking this was going to just pay the bills. Yes. And you may be overly generous saying a foot. It may have been my big toe in at that point. But you know what? There was the point where you're kind of done. And I remember I think I had a 9 a.m. audition. And the alarm went and I looked.

And I hit snooze and I went back to sleep. And I knew that day. At that point, I needed to do this. It was producing a very good income at this point. You saw this as something that, you know, and I think you are admitting us now in hindsight, but at the time you kind of felt like that it was not really what you had planned to do with your life. No. And look, the fact is very few people.

are on that, you know, on the plan they set for themselves lying on their bunk bed when they were 12 years old, you know. So, you know, identifying what I was good at and removing ego. I mean, I have a healthy ego like a lot of people do. And you know what was kind of interesting as I felt like, oh, I'm a friggin salesman, but I was making a good living. And I had a really good friend in another NYU buddy, who was a lawyer. And he was seeing me like work these weekends and then have the days off. And he's working his ass off. And here are you, you know, he's got law school loans.

And he's like, listen, is there any chance I could get one of these cookware jobs? And I'm like, buddy, you're a lawyer, you know? Yeah. He's like, it sucks being a lawyer. Yeah. It's a grind. It's a grind. It's a grind.

So this really is sort of now you're full on into this career and eventually you get promoted. and National Sales Manager, VP of Sales. And while you're there, you meet another, I mean, you become friends with people. One of them would become critical in the future, which will get to. But this is a guy named Cole McCray. Tell me a little bit about Cole. Cole is one of the most interesting guys I know, because I met him right before I went into the office. So at this point, we're both salesmen when I meet him.

And he just, you know, we have similar senses of humor. Like we like dark humor. We like saying, you know, stuff that other people won't say. So we kind of became friendly. And then when I became his boss, you know, he quickly became the top salesman. He was very, very good. And so he was like my main guy. But Cole is also, he does not mince words about stuff.

So now just, I'm in the office a couple of years now. And I think I just got made VP of sales. And he'll come in the office. And I'm his boss. He goes, he walks in and he sees me sitting there. He goes like this. Well, somebody's getting fat. Like, I'm not getting fat.

You know, I mean, maybe I put a few pounds. I'm at a desk for the first time. He goes, you're fat. Five o'clock, you're coming to the gym with me. Okay? I'm like, fine. I'll go to the gym with you. And then he and I started working out.

Like if he wasn't off traveling for a show, we worked out, you know, four or five nights a week, which eventually is where the idea during our workouts of starting our own company came. All right. We'll get there. But for now, I mean, you and Cole are kind of killing it, right? In the mid-90s into the 2000s, you become VP of sales. He's your top sales guy. But I guess around 2009-10, right, business starts to shrink. I mean, the financial crisis has happened.

And I guess around that time, I read that you started to sort of look at e-commerce, right, to help try to boost sales. And that was, e-commerce was pretty new, right? I mean, e-commerce was relatively new. It was just catching on. I mean, by that point, was the company even selling anything online? Technically, yes, but not really. So at this point in our area, in say, the kitchenware space, your website and the ability to purchase online was looked at as just a tool to help you sell in person. You don't buy cookware that way. You know, it's kind of like people weren't quite yet. They were just beginning to buy clothes online that way.

So did you ever go to your boss, to the owner of the company, and say, hey, we should really, we should get on to these like platforms or Facebook or we should really be doing like, you know, let's go build a Facebook community and, you know, try to try to see if we, if that helps sales. So that's exactly what happened. I got excited. One thing I'd noticed at this point was I'd read an article about the, about decline in cookbook sales. and um which would totally go the opposite way like few years later because then they would just skyrocket but yes keep going well and you know why is this well I'm like well there's a ton of

great recipes online people now like say people love cookbooks again you know and but at this point they're like oh wait a minute I don't have to spend $30 to buy to get all these recipes that I don't really like and the 20 that I do like so they're starting to die digest content online. And I became very aware of this. And I'm seeing the food network exploding. And I'm like, this is a big deal. And we need to create a community here.

And I went to the CEO of the company. And I had Facebook up. And I go, I want to tell you my idea. I go, I don't have it completely fleshed out yet. But I go, this is where we need to be. I pointed at the screen. I'm like, we got to create a community. And then we own the experience with our customer.

and this is going to lead to sales. And he quite literally did hand to the face to me. And he goes, listen, kid, this Facebook thing, it's never going to last. And that was the moment. That was what I walked out and I'm like, I got to start my own company. I mean, to be fair at that time, right, 2010, 11, wasn't uncommon for somebody, especially somebody from, you know, older to feel. that way that this is just a fad or this is just to post your books and your likes and your

music you're listening to your vacation pictures right like i think that because this is around the time when like Cheryl sandberg just joins company so facebook is about to transform into a massive advertising platform yes but um but you feel like if they don't change um you might not have a job like the company might not live, might not survive. Exactly, because let's face it, you know, people are terrified of change, right? Because the future is scary often. You know, I was scared to say, let's pivot slightly and, you know, really embrace social media. But when I look at it very analytically, I didn't see a downside.

And eventually the company, it doesn't exist anymore, right? Yeah. It, they wound up fading out. But at that point, I was, I was gone at that point. I think, you know, they locked the doors around sometime around 17 or so. All right. You and Cole had been talking about maybe doing something together one day. Like, if you were to start a business, you were brainstorming ideas around things that you would use in the kitchen.

Yes. Absolutely. And you're, and I guess you start to, you start to look for what that product could be, right? You're still working for the cookware company. But how did you start to go search for this next thing that you wanted to do? So as we played around with what this could look like, you know, it started at the gym. We talk about ideas. Now that he had got me back working out, we were both very, very health conscious at this point.

And we had both become big juicing fans, you know, green juice. And, you know, it was like becoming. huge at that point. We were reading about like new advances and making cold press juice at home with a couple of Korean companies, but they hadn't really like the big juicer was like the Jack La Lane juicer at the time. Right. And that's and just for people who like, that's a juicer where you put the carrot in and it

grinds it up and it basically is heating the fruits or vegetables. And so you lose some of the vitamin content. But cold press just slowly. presses it down and then the thinking is that juice retains the vitamin content because it's not heated. But generally, you can't do that at home. You'd have to buy, like you could buy cold press juices. And you were starting to see that there were home versions of this being created. Yes. So we were doing our research and we thought, um, this, the health benefits are huge. Like we had seen like Vitamix like cornered the smoothie market. But quite frankly, still, like,

smoothies are not as good as vegetable juice. You were looking for something cool to sell. Yes. And eventually you found a juicer. We did. That you liked. And we thought we found the Holy Grail because what was interesting, it was a cold-pressed juicer.

It had been invented in Korea. And what was great about it was it only had one part to clean. You popped out the center, like it was like a giant screw. And you just washed it all off. So it was like, wow, this is easy. to clean. This is the holy grail. So, you know, we were very excited about bringing that to market. And how much, how much were these going to retail for? These were going to retail for about 400 U.S. dollars. Got it. Okay. So you have this idea. You go back and you and Cole agree that this is what

you're going to do. And so I'm assuming you both at this point leave the company to start your own company. So by the time, I think I left, it took all of 13 into 14 until we were ready to sell this product. So once the product was ready to be sold, that's right about when I left the company. Yeah, in terms of negotiating it, I mean, you had to make a deal presumably where you would be the exclusive distributor in the United States. Exactly. And how much, I mean, did you have to have a lot of money up front to make this happen? I mean, because obviously you were making good salary. Cole was probably making good salary, but I mean, I can't imagine you had millions and millions of dollars to put down. No, for this, well, there were a couple things.

One, there was a level of ignorance on our part about exactly everything we would need. But our goal at the time was to really do this slowly and judiciously. So, you know, spending the money, you know, we felt like we could do it carefully and we'd be able to sell fund at that point. And then kind of reinvest the profits. So it was pretty much ready to sell, which was great. And what was it, what was it called? It was called Juice Presso. Juice Press.

Okay. like. And so the idea was you were going to sell these. I mean, you have this idea of direct consumer, right? Yes. And was that what you were going to do here? Well, it was because we also felt that direct consumer tied in quite nicely with demonstration sales. Because in a way, I can deliver this little demo to one of two ways. I can deliver it to you in person or I can deliver it to you in 30, 60 seconds. With a video. With a video on Facebook. Facebook. And if it's good enough, you'll watch the whole video on Facebook. And that was your strategy. Let's just go in on Facebook with videos. Yes. And it's also like, you know, very quickly,

we thought also this is great. As soon as you're on there, we want you to start sharing your recipes. We want you to start sharing your videos. Now, the thing is, you know, you hope you get the participation quickly because we don't have money. There were no paid influencers. at this point either. Right. Did you guys see the juicer as sort of the first product that would become part of a larger constellation of products? Yes, that was it.

Like we thought, I never thought we were going to sell $100 million worth of juices. But I thought, you know, if we could get a suite of products that are complementary in the kitchen space, maybe we have five, six, seven of them. And, you know, my goal was, can we get each one to generate about 10 million in revenue? And if we can, we got a business. Yeah, sure. Where were you selling them, by the way, mainly online? So at that point, we were selling some online, some at trade shows. We try to find, like, kind of health and wellness and gourmet shows, ones that kind of lend

themselves to a higher price point. And we had started selling them with Costco in their roadshow program as well. What we were never expecting was in 15 that Whole Foods makes an announcement that we're putting a juice bar in every whole foods, fresh squeeze, cold press juice, that, you know, all of a sudden creation and jamba juice, they're going to even make real juice, not just delicious sugar, you know, juice. You know, we were holding hope that people aren't going to pay 10 bucks for a juice. And this was, I've said it before, never underestimate the laziness of the American public

because we want it now, we want it easy. And there's a juice place in L.A. called the Beverly Hills Juice Club. And I think that's the one I was in where I saw a girl order a juice. And she didn't have enough money on her credit card to put it all on one card, I think. And I'm like, wait a minute. That was quite an aha moment. She doesn't have $8 or $7, but she won't make it at home.

So you see, I mean, you have this amazing year in 2015, but it's not, you start to feel like this is not going to be representative. This is just a blip. You know, again, we were starting to see like the first half of 15 was going well. Yeah. We were cautiously optimistic. But then we were seeing a little bit of a plateau. And this is as we're seeing more and more juice shops pop up. I'm like grudgingly becoming to grips with.

with the fact that this may not have legs. I want to point something out here, which I think is really important and critical, which is you left your safe job as you were getting close to 50. I mean, you were, you had a very good career, a good salary. I mean, you really started this business when you were like 49. And a lot of people think, oh, God, that's late. I mean, in fact, it's not.

But the other thing is that, and I've said this in the show, there's a lot of evidence to show that late sort of entrepreneurs who are older, not late, but older, have a much higher rate of success because they come to the table with a lot of experience. But it is scary because the stakes are somewhat higher. Like if you fail at 49 or 50, it's just harder to recover than if you're 25. You know, I'm so glad you brought that up because it really, it's very important because the fact is there's something about this country that is both amazing and challenging, which is we love an underdog story. We love a rags to riches story. But also, there is this level in our country where we want to knock people down when they hit a level of success. We celebrate the 25-year-olds who fail. we pity the 50-year-olds who fail.

Yeah. Were you nervous about doing that in your 50s and your late 40s? I mean, was any part of you like, God, this is, I'm nervous, it's scary? There's a level of terror to it. Luckily, I think very often ignorance is bliss, right? So what you don't know can't really hurt you, so to speak. So there were certain areas where I've said it a couple times, I was naive, especially she's starting with Juice Presso.

And maybe this overconfidence that because I was a good salesman and I really believed in the product, I could convince you that this was in your best interest to buy this. And we saw that business drop month by month by month. And the thing is, this is the hardest thing I've ever had to do in my life. And it was one of the smartest things because I had to look, I had to look very closely at this. and go, this business is not salvageable. And my ego wanted to fix it. But the thing is, sometimes you got to pull the plug, right?

And sometimes you need somebody else to tell you that. It's very hard looking in the mirror sometimes. You know, very often we're looking all over the place for the reason why we're not doing well. And then we skip the mirror. In this place, I played a role, but I misjudged the market. That's what I did wrong. I don't think the way I brought the product to market, the way we, We tried to sell it.

I think we did the right thing there. I misjudged the market and shame on me, you know. And we were in the juicer business like on a Tuesday night at 5 p.m. And the next morning at 9 a.m., we were not in the juicer business anymore. When we come back in just a moment, how trying to avoid Chinese premier Xi Jinping led Danny to start hex clad. Stay with us. I'm Guy Raz, and you're listening to how I built this. Hey, welcome back to how I built this. I'm Guy Raz. So it's 2015, and even though Juice Presso made about $5 million, Danny and Cole know the business doesn't have legs. So they amp up their search for new products, and Danny even heads overseas to check out some Asian trade shows. And there, in the basement at the Canton Fair, Danny finds it. A new non-stick technology he believes he can turn into a cookware success.

thanks in part to one very important man. I think one time somebody asked me, well, who do you owe it all to? And I go in a way, I owe it to Xi Jinping because he showed up at the Canton Fair this day to cut like the opening day ribbon or something. And I'd been at the preview day the night before. And I met somebody, I don't even remember what it was. He had some interesting product. And I said, okay, I'm going to meet you tomorrow at noon. And I go to show up to walk into this hall.

and there's just 30 Chinese soldiers there. And they've got their guns there and they won't let me in. And apparently I'm being directed. I got to go down three flights of steps into the basement, walk all the way and come back up on the other end. And I'm like, I'm looking at my watch. And I'm like, damn, Xi Jinping, you're making me late to my meeting. And so I head down into this basement area.

And I think for anybody who's ever been to a trade show like this, they'll sell every last bit of real estate they can get somebody to set up a booth in and I'm walking down there and this is another one of the moments of my life where I'm like I'm not on my phone I'm not looking right I'm looking left and I look and I see this round plate steel plate with hexagons all over it and I go hmm that's interesting so I walk over and immediately you know they most these booths they hire like young college students because they can speak some English. And this girl comes up. She goes, oh, do you like that? She's like, yes, we invented that. That's the line everybody says, it could be 10 booths selling the same tea kettle. And they'll all be like, oh, we invented this.

We invented. You know, they're all claiming ownership. And I'm like, okay, sure you did. I go, this is interesting. Have you ever made a frying pan with it? And they go, oh, yeah, we're experimenting with them right now. And I go inside their booth and they show me one, hand and I'm like, well, this would never sell in America. And a gentleman walks up and he spoke English. So we started talking. He was, yes, we're really developing, you know, the frying pans and that. And I go, oh, I used to be in the cookware business. And he goes, oh, we're like, well, so where do you sell in the U.S.? And I started saying, well, you know, we've sold all over. And then I get to. And I've also done a good amount of business with Costco. And his eyes lit up.

he's at Costco, oh, we would love to do business with Costco. So I kind of jumped on that. And I'm like, well, you know, I know them very well. And but I go, I think I've seen this tech. I've lied. I'm like, I've seen this all over the Canton Fair. He goes, no, no, this is ours. I go, no, come on, tell me the truth.

And he goes and gets a book. And in the book, he's just got page after page of global patents. And I'm like, did I actually run into the real. real deal. Like the guy who actually did invent this and has the patents to prove it, because I've never seen anybody pull out a book with patents before. Yeah. And oftentimes you go to these trade shows and there's like 40 of the same version of the same product. But this was, he's basically saying, no, no, I'm the inventor. This is our product. Can you can you explain what it was about it that appeal to you right away? I mean, it's a nonstick pan with these like hexagon

shapes on the, you know, on the lining of the pan. Why did it, why was that intriguing to you? Why was that interesting to you? Well, for a couple, a couple reasons. So to say, essentially what they do is they laser etch these hexagons. So the nonstick is sitting in the removed portion of metal. So it sits slightly recessed. So one of the biggest problems with nonstick pans with people, you scratch them with a metal

spatula. And then they wind up peeling and flaking and they get. They get into your food. They last three months. Yeah, exactly. And also, they don't sear very well. You know, you essentially to get a good sear on a stainless or on a nonstick pan, you have to overheat the pan.

And you will destroy the pan to get a sear. So I'm like, wait a minute, you got this steel, which can get a sear at a lower medium heat. I'd been selling cookware for 15 years at that point. I'm like, people complained about not getting a good, here. They complained about their non-stick peeling. And then they're like, oh, by the way, because of the design, it's also oven safe to at least 500 degrees. So just to be clear, I mean, most non-stick pans are and were aluminum pans. Right? The vast majority were, yes. There were some. I mean, I think scan pan was doing steel and a couple other. All clad was doing it for a while.

But the most part... It was aluminum with a coating of, you know, that Teflon-style coating. Yes. Right. Which still, you can still get them versus that. And this was different because it was steel, which conducts heat better. Well, aluminum does too, but steel is preferred by like serious cooks. And then, and it had this non-stick element, but it was different.

It wasn't like Teflon. It was these etched hexagons. Yes. that covered the whole surface of the pan. Yes. So you come across this brand. What's the guy's name, by the way? His name is Mr. Lee.

Okay. So you start to talk to him. And at that trade show, at that point, I can't imagine you were thinking, I want to sell these. Or were you thinking, I got to lock this up? I knew they had something special. It was not ready for the Western market. But I was excited about it.

So, you know, when I went back to my hotel room, I was alone and I called Cole, you know, and I'm like, this might be a winner. You know, we talked about it. And then essentially, I went back the next day. We talked more. They're like, look, we're going to make some new samples a little bit deeper because they were too shallow. And I go, great. I go, I'll help you. I know what'll sell in America.

So that was in the spring of 15. I wound up spending almost, I'd say, until around August 1 of 16. So we probably spent 16 months working on the pans together. Okay. I want a bunch of questions. So basically, once again, like with a juice preso, you've got to come up with a deal where you are going to be the exclusive distributor of this product, presumably for a country or territory, maybe more.

But this was different because it wasn't just that you were going to distribute his products. You were actually, you wanted him to design, to use his technology to design cookware, to design pans, pots, other things that you wanted to help him build because you had experience in that. How does that work? Well, I would say he was already working on cookware. He was thinking of the needs of the Korean market. which are slightly different than the needs of say the U.S. market. So I was giving him feedback of what I would need to make that product successful in the U.S.

And really this in the beginning was a handshake agreement. You know, there was a lot of faith on both parts. And I know this is strange, but we trusted each other. Like when I still see him, I'll fly over. once a year at least to see the factory. And he and I just look at each other and we kind of laugh and hug because there was a lot of trust in it. He's like, I'm not going to sell to anybody else in America.

And you're going to trust that I'm going to make the product great and not cut you out. And for that first year, we both openly said we're taking chances on each other because they were very small. He just had this great idea. And he had a factory to produce it. And I told them my plan and I said, you know, I want to be a direct-to-consumer cookware brand. I go, I want to sell online because I want to control the story. And by the way, this unique design needs it story told.

How many people did you have working for you? Was it just you and Cole? At that point, we were so bootstrapped. We were me and Cole and our assistant as full-time employees in the office. You were doing everything. And then you'd outsource things like maybe some. some sales and bookkeeping. So, yeah, so we used, yeah, we used, you know, we had a 3PL handling stuff for us.

We, you know, used outside bookkeeping. We had at that time, because we were still growing the roadshow at Costco. So maybe we only had about 15 employees there. But they were all on contract. Yes. How did you pay for the initial orders of, I mean, by this point, the, the, the pans and the pots are starting to be made and manufactured in Korea. Where did you have the cash to even pay for those first orders? So we'd gotten to the point that we were kind of, we were breaking even on the

juicer. So maybe a tiny bit of profit there in like, say, May-ish June. We placed our first cookware order at the end of July. We kind of had it perfected. We made the cookware. We could only afford one 20-foot container at the point because we, Cole and I had to come with the money out of, you know, our pockets. And we found a way, it was even, it was cheaper for us to send the cookware over unboxed so we could fit more in a container and then box it in Cole's backyard. Roughly, how much did that cost you? That first order wasn't that much because it was a small container. I think it was around $75,000 worth of product. And then once you sort of package it and sell it, probably would sell for at least twice that.

Yeah, probably more like three plus. And by the way, did you have a name for it yet? I mean, they had a name for what they came up with, but you were going to brand it as something different, right? So, yeah, we had to make the boxes. And Cole and I was 930 at night and we had to trademark something the next day, 9 a.m. And we're like, Cole's like, what about hexclad? I'm like, nah, I don't, I don't like it. hexagon and clad.

Like you think of like there's all clad. There's other cookware that's clad, yeah. So Cole's like coming up and I'm like, we can think of something better. And then finally like an hour later he's like, dude, come on. We got to call. All right. Hex clad. And people have always like, we love your name.

You know, your branding company that came up with it. They did great. Nah, Cole just came up with it at 9.30. And then we just, we had to go start making the boxes. the next day. And in fact, and we've gotten compliments on our logo, the Hexglad logo. We had no money to hire an artist or a company to design it. So I found a website that does these contests between artists all over the world. Yeah. So I put it up there like $299 to make the Hexclad logo. All right. So you've got a logo. You've got this initial order. But if you want to go big,

you need some serious money behind this to generate, you know, to, to, to, to, you know, to basically get some inventory produced. And so did you, I have to imagine, you thought, well, let's go out and raise money. I mean, this is 2016. I mean, this is the height of the, I mean, there's a lot of money going to DTC companies at that point. This was the start of it. So I went out, tried and raise money. And mostly in L.A. or New York or both? Most in L.A. and up north. And I may have had one meeting in New York. And I got this.

There were a couple things. Like, one, they didn't get the pan. And I'm like, am I not explaining this technology properly? But they were like, okay, it's different. I go, yeah, I go, this is a new advance in a tired, old business that hasn't known any innovation since Teflon came out essentially. And it's scratch proof. It's non-stick.

Well, I want to say scratch-resistant. If you dig in there with a knife, you can scratch it. But if you're cooking normally, you grab a metal spatula, metal spoons, whisks, it's fine. And these, they're like, okay, that's good. But, and they go, okay, well, listen, forget, let's just say everybody loves your idea. How are you going to get shelf space? And I went, aha.

I don't want shelf space. They're like, what? Yeah, I go, I don't need all clad shelf space at Bed Bath and Beyond. They're like, well, how then? I go, we're going to be the first direct-to-consumer cookware brand. We are going to take out the middleman. We're going to market to our customers and start a journey with them. And people were like, you cannot sell cookware that way.

People don't buy their cookware that way. You know, they looked at me like I was. out of my mind. So there wasn't a single investor you met with that was interested in? A few people mildly interested, but not really. And look, I didn't completely blame them. Part of me was like, you know, I'm like, I need to maybe do a better job of telling this story. But really what it is was consistently people were like, nobody's going to buy cookware this way. And it was, these were hard nose. They weren't like, let's go to committee. They were like hard nose. And so during, during 16 and 17, you know, we, I cashed out my 401k that I'd had. I, my return my Roth. I took all the money

out, paid penalties. Everything I'd had saved up. I had 90% of my life savings by the, by the time we hit tied up in the company. We applied for credit cards and we were paying one credit card with another credit card. You know, we may have even exaggerated a couple things to get another credit card. How much money did the two of you have to put in? I would say we were probably flirting with like around between the two of us like 800 grand, 900 grand that we had in. Yeah. You know, that's scary.

I mean, because at this point, you know, being 50 over 50, saving that amount of money, you know, you're already thinking, okay, in 15 years I'm going to retire, I've got a, so to take four or 500,000 or $500,000 your whole life savings out, pay the penalties to put into this thing. And then if you're wiped out, that's not going to be good. Yeah, I'm probably going to be tending bargain or, you know, or sell it. Yeah. I'll tell you, guy, it was, that was terrifying. And this is the part where I, you know, I want to encourage entrepreneurs. But I would wake up panicked at 4 a.m. in 16 and 17. Because we, now we're all in. You know, still with the juicer, we'd started, you know, breaking even at least. We're not feeding the machine,

so to speak. And I still had money in the bank. But now this took more money to develop. up. And we were very good at stretching a dollar. But it was, it was frightening. Why were you so confident in this product? I mean, I mean, it's a kind of a rhetorical question, but you went to all these VCs and they looked at it. And what they're looking for is innovation. Right. Like an AI wired, you know, like an internet connected pan or something that is very different. And to most of them, they just saw Pan. that was a slight variation on Teflon to them, right? You're saying, no, no, this is totally different. It's relevant. But why did you, even after hearing all that pushback, why did you think that this was so special?

Well, you know, Cole and I had spent a good chunk of our adult life selling cookware. Yeah. We know that people buy it. People cook. People are cooking more. You know, I think I had mentioned. Now I'm also being.

validated by the explosion of Instagram chefs of food content producers. You know, and I got questioned by my boss and by other people. Now I've been proven right on this. And I was confident. And I knew this. I knew that I could sell that this was a great product. So we launched our website in November of 16. And I still have the email.

We sold a 10-inch pan. Why this person bought it, we started. you know, running Facebook ads. And I wanted to understand what people were reacting to. So as we hit that end of 16 and beginning of 17, I think I even booked a trade show. And I went there with hex clad. And nobody knew it yet. And I remember it was like all day Friday.

I didn't sell anything. And I'm like, I'm worried. I had one of my, one of my best friends came with me at the time. He's like, I'll help you out. We'll do it. You know, he was a good salesman. And we hadn't sold anything. And it was one o'clock on Saturday.

I'm like, oh, God, maybe I am wrong. Well, then one o'clock, I finally connected with somebody. And they're like, I'm going to get it. Okay, I'll take it. And then I kept demoing. I'm like one after another. and all of a sudden cut to three hours of me not talking like just talking nonstop and we'd sold 18 of our frying pan sets. And also I was realizing what was resonating with people and what wasn't.

What was working and what wasn't. What I'd realized was I found I was not only just promoting the benefits, but I was apologizing for the things that weren't as good about it. Like, for example, if you take a Teflon pan out of a box, the Teflon pan will clean up easier. Now, our pan's going to clean up much better than an aluminum or a stainless steel pan, but it's only going to clean up about 85% as well as a Teflon pan. But the benefit is you don't have to worry about metal and all those other things. And once I honed in on all that stuff, then we started connecting and people started buying. So what about, I mean, because it was.

was supposed to be direct to consumer. Were your Facebook ads? It doesn't sound like the Facebook ads were really moving product. Well, we had no money, first of all. So we were only, we could, we were spending like a thousand bucks a month at that, and 16. But also what this gave us an opportunity to do, as we did a couple of these shows, I was able to take my learnings and then tweak the Facebook ads a little bit. Right.

And then what happened was I decided to take a, chance to reach out to my Costco connection. All right. So you decided, I mean, you had this in at Costco with a juice press. Yes. And you and Cole say, let's try this again. Let's try to bring these pans to Costco. So I think about a year after you get your first shipping in, you get a chance to do an in store demo in Costco. It's November of 2017. Is it in one Costco or is it going to be in multiple caskos? What they do is they give you one test store with a couple of backup test stores. I mean, they, have the option that if it's completely disastrous, they could pull the plug, I guess.

But I think usually they're going to give you a few stores. And so where did you, did you go yourself to demonstrate it? I went there. I relied on one of my old reps from my old company who had needed, was looking for a new opportunity. And we've been talking. And he really liked the product. And he's like, I'll do it for you.

Wow. So really, if you get into Costco, it's not a guarantee that you're going to succeed. Like, there are products that did try Costco and don't exist anymore. Oh, yeah. Like, it can, because their margins are very slim. They, you know, they require, I mean, they demand a very low price. Yep. And you got to move product in order to make money there. Yes. You know, it's scary, but I also knew, I went back to me standing at the St. Louis food and whatever gourmet show when we had done it months earlier. And, And I just saw, like, I knew what people did in demonstration with this.

Like, it resonated. They liked it. What kind of food did you make, just omelets? Yeah. Like, oh, because they want to see an egg cook. And I think we did cheese. You know, then we make a cassidia for them, some sticky stuff. And then talk about the deal and show about the value props.

Like, you know, you make some dumb jokes. Like, ladies, this is husbandproof cookware. You can use the metal spatula, whatever it might. But when we got that opportunity, Fountain Valley, I remember we sold in the neighborhood of $5,000 worth of product that first day in one store. And is that, I mean, that sounds like a lot to me. Is that a lot? Sure.

Yeah, that's a lot. I guess if you're doing 20 grand a month, doing $5,000 in a day is pretty awesome. Yes. And in the road shows, your schedule, there are 10-day events. So I think when we finished, we were flirting with around $40,000 U.S. dollars in that 10-day period. And what was the goal? What did you, what was the metric that you had to hit in order to prove it out? I'm guessing we, we more than three-xed what they were hoping for. Wow. All right. So, so you prove this out. And now you are going, and what does that mean? Does that mean they, they come back to you and say, okay, well, let's go national?

Well, immediately, they're like great numbers. And we already had store two and three scheduled. So that means those are going to go through. In the couple days between the starting of stores two and, and three, they offer us two or three more stores. And we're like, yeah, let's do them. Well, now a store two goes equally as well. And we're like, we cannot afford to have inventory sitting around. So now we're running into inventory problems. And we were still at this point, like having product come in unpackaged because we couldn't afford.

So we would literally line up boxes in Cole's backyard. And we'd run down a line and I'd be like 12. inch pan, 12 inch pan, 12 inch pan, 10 inch pan, 10 inch pan. Hand packaging them to save money. And then we'd be like taping them closed. And we had, we had so many paper cuts on our fingers that there sometimes would be little blood spots on the, on the box. And we would have to take windex and go back and clean the blood off the top of the box. And we would drive them to the Costco to sell, to sell them. Yeah, it was, it was, it was scary and exhilarating at the same. time. When we come back in just a moment, how Danny and Cole turn this backyard business into a

$500 million company in under 10 years. Stay with us. I'm Guy Raz and you're listening to How I Built This. Hey, welcome back to How I Built This. I'm Guy Raz. So 2017 to 2018 is a pivotal time for Danny and Cole. Costco puts Hexclad into more and more stores and sales grow. And the guy figure out how to make ads work for them on Facebook and really connect with customers. So essentially what was happening in the first half of 18 was we were, I would say, putting almost 100% of the money back into the company. There was no taking salaries. There was no, you know, there was none of that.

I remember, like, finally, the first time Cole and I took a paycheck in July of 18, And we were each able to take, I think, $10,000. And that was like, we were like $10,000. We made it. So, all right. So 2019, the direct-to-consumer side of the business really takes off. And do you remember roughly what you got? I mean, 10 million in sales in 2018.

Mm-hmm. Do you remember what you guys did in 2019? We almost doubled that. So we were up in the 18, 19 range. And yeah. And by the way, and profitable. And profitable. So really, we were profitable by the middle of 18. But you had to be, you still had to be somewhat nervous because you had seen with the juice press awesome sales and then the whole thing just fall apart. Yes. I mean, you're always going to be a little nervous. And I guess if you're not nervous, you're not doing your job properly, right? You should always be concerned. Because, of course, then you hit 2020, which is the COVID year. And now all of a sudden,

all eyes turned to, really, to computers and phones, everyone stuck inside. And a lot of direct to consumer businesses, Peloton and others, just went crazy. And did it also have that same effect on sales for you guys? Were people just ordering cookware because they were stuck at home now? Well, there were a couple things. And what was interesting about that was as we're selling right along with the production capacity of our factory, Costco shut down the Costco Roadshow. Right, because of the pandemic. In March, they became groceries only. And if it wasn't groceries, they weren't selling it. So now we had all this additional. product that we paid for. So essentially now you were expecting to sell X, not X plus Y. But Cole and I,

you know, now we're heading into April 1, we're like, we don't know quite yet that people, how long they're going to be locked up and how long they're going to be shopping. We're still doing pretty well online. This is before nobody, no one was talking about a payroll protection plan yet. This was just, that was a couple months away. And then we also went, well, we got all this cookware. How much money do we have in the bank? And I remember we had a million bucks. And we just looked at each other and we're like, let's blow the whole million on advertising on meta.

And we spent a million bucks in April. And I think in February we had, we were doing a million a month online. And we sold $5 million in April online. Wow. And we're like, so we go, I would probably be able to start taking a salary in May. I guess that summer, summer of 2020, somebody on your team, because I, because you'd staffed up and you had to staff up, right? And you had somebody who noticed that Gordon Ramsey had been following you guys on Instagram. Yes.

And so obviously, you chouch him with probably the most, probably the most famous chef on the planet. I guess initially to give him pans, right? Yeah. To send him some gifts. You know, it's been such a strange journey. And even that's like one of them. You know, I mean, Gordon Ramsey is the biggest chef on the planet. And they know him everywhere.

And to see that he was following us on Instagram was like, wow. And I, you know, what I learned later was somebody gifted him a pan, I think, during the pandemic. And he was home like everybody else. cooking every day for his kids. And so we did reach out and we're like, can we send you some more pens? And whoever answered on his team said, sure. And then we also just said, does, you know, Gordon involved with the cookware company? And they were like, I don't think so.

And that led to her like, well, we'd love to talk. And I don't know, a few days later, I was on a call with Gordon's business manager. and, you know, we're discussing, you know, what could this look like? I mean, it's a bit surreal. And initially they were thinking, okay, maybe a commercial, right, that you wanted him to do a commercial? He threw out the options. He's like, you know, Gordon, like if he likes your product, you know, he'd do a commercial. It's expensive.

But he also probably like a million bucks. I would guess. At least. You know, yeah. He never gave me an exact number. But I knew it was a lot. And then, you know, and it's short term, unless you. keep buying it. But then he said, but Gordon likes your product. You know, he'd, Gordon's

by the way, a very, very shrewd businessman. And he's like, he likes your product. And I think he'd love to participate. And I'm like, well, let's see what that looks like. And, and the idea would be, hey, maybe he actually becomes an owner, part owner. Yeah, that's what we were, that's what we were looking at. I mean, really, we wanted to say, like, were we a good fit? What are our goals? How do they fit ethically together in a way? Like that's one thing I think that's that Gordon and I have in common. Like we're both very hardworking.

We don't want to half ass anything. Like my product is a great product. It's well made. It performs well. And I won't sell something that way. And Gordon's the same way. And we kind of saw that in each other. And Gordon's very enthusiastic, and he's got great ideas, like ways you can market stuff.

And so we got on this call, and I was intimidating. You know, I just go on the screen. It's like we're on right now, but there's the biggest chef in the world on the other side. And we start talking. And I had 20 minutes scheduled for the call. And Gordon and I talked for an hour in 20 minutes. And we just talked about everything we could do. And I think when we got off the call, everybody involved was like, yeah, this makes sense.

You know? Then you just had to get the lawyers. What it actually would mean. And so, of course, we know, I mean, people who know HexClaug know, you made it, you came to an agreement with him. And what did that mean? I mean, it meant that he would post on social media. You would film videos of him using it. What was it going to mean to have him as a brand ambassador and an equity holder?

You know, we had put faith in our relationship with Mr. Lee early on with your hopes that there's a follow. through with everything. Yes, there's a contract that has X, Y, and Z deliverables. If that was the way we approach this relationship, I would say, I don't even know if we would still have a relationship with Gordon because it's been like a very fluid type of relationship. Like, yes, we're going to do a certain amount of content every year. And Gordon's going to collab on some posts with us. And, And, you know, and he's like, I want to use the cookware in a lot of my restaurants. And that was all good. But what he didn't need to do, and it's not in any contract, was I'm going to put it on

my TV shows. So, you know, he started doing that. And like, they called me and he's like, you know, I know we've been talking about doing something in Canada. He goes, I'm going to be in Vancouver at the end of February. Why don't we do an event? He didn't have to just offer that. It's like he does stuff like he's always.

always thinking like, what can we do to take this to the next level and the next level and the next level? Yeah. I mean, he is a very good, I mean, he's probably easily the best, the best sort of food entrepreneur on the planet. I mean, in part, I mean, he's a great chef. He's got a Michelin three-star restaurant, but he's also a personality that's managed to become so much bigger than his restaurants. And, you know, I imagine that, I mean, how. Having him again, you know, it actually reminds me a lot of a story we did on the show a year two ago about On Shoes. A brand that was founded by, you know, three Swiss guys, not very well known. They scaled it on their own. They turned it into a real powerhouse. And then Roger Federer became really interested in doing something with him. He's Swiss.

They were Swiss. And, you know, and Roger Federer's involvement helped take on to the next level. You know, all of a sudden it wasn't just a really popular shoe brand. It's like now one of the most popular running brands on the planet, and it was started in 2012. So there's a lot of parallels there, right? Like, you guys got it to a pretty great point. Yeah. But then Gordon Ramsey is interested, and he can help you really supercharging.

Exactly. I mean, I think we would have continued to scale. And he'll sometimes, you know, poke fun with me when we talk. It'll be like, oh, you know, thank God you got me. and I'll joke. I'm like, thank God you got me too. And we're a good team. But yes, like, look, Gordon, Gordon brings you eyeballs.

And that's what this business is about, right? You want eyeballs. Because if you have a good product and you get the consumer's attention, when they're ready to purchase, they're going to consider you. So Gordon gets a lot of people to consider our product. Maybe that didn't know about us. I mean, in the first full year that he was a partner, I read that your revenue is $170 million. And there's no question that that was a huge help.

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. You know, it was huge. You know, maybe we scale that year. Maybe we do get it. We do 100% again and we go to around 100. You know, it's always hard to guess. But I know this.

When you get somebody like Gordon who's passionate, you know, you have to. that all together is just a recipe for growth. Yeah, no question about it. Yeah. But I mean, this is now expanded into like if you go to the hexclad website, you know, his signatures on there, and it's not just pans and pots. I mean, it's like you guys are doing knives and you're doing cutting boards and aprons and other tools. I mean, there is like a, this is like a bunch of different things that you are now. You've really expanded out into a bunch of different places. So like we do want to kind of own the kitchen. And that was when like when I met with Gordon,

I talked about this. Like I, this is what I want. I go, I want to innovate in every kitchen category. So when we can innovate, bring something new, a better mouse trap, we're gonna do it. If we can't totally innovate, I wanna make something that's of the finest quality that just looks sexy as hell.

It's amazing because you know, in a, I mean, of course it was a long, I'm sure it's felt like a very long journey, but right, 2017 to 2025. And, you know, you probably, you know, you might hit 700, 800 million this year. Who knows. And how many people now work for Hexclad? How many employees do you have around the world? We have in the neighborhood of, and by that, I should know the exact number, but we are hiring pretty regularly. still. Globally, I'd say we're around 235, 240. So pretty efficient for the amount of revenue you're bringing in. And everything is still made in Korea or has had to build second factories in other Asian countries? So we make different things in different places. Like I told you, like our steel is manufactured in Japan for that. The cookware, most of the cookware is made in in China, actually. Our wood products are made in Slovenia, our eco-friendly aprons here in L.A. So we do have a lot of global locations where we do manufacture. And we're looking to expand that and diversify further in the next year or two. So, Danny, here you are, 60 years old.

59. Still, I'm, look, I'm clear. 59. Okay. But this is your 60? No, I mean, I think this you should be immensely proud. You know, you're hitting your 60th year and you start a business at 50. You know, that's a big risk. And it was a while before you saw any money. And now you are, you know, a majority owner here. You have no investor still. I mean, Gordon Ramsey's an equity holder, but no outside investors still.

We got one outside investor last year. We did release that. Oh, that's right, right, right. 100, Gordon Ramsey's Fox, a partnership of Fox and Studio Ramsey Global. They put in a hundred million, right?

Yeah. No, I mean, it's, it really is an amazing gamble slash sacrifice to make and then to see it pay off is, I mean, it just must be an incredibly fulfilling, feeling, you know, just this like gratifying.

That's what I was looking for. To be able to sit there and be like, we did this, we made it. This worked. You know, it is. And I hope, like, you know, I hope people, if they get one thing, and I love that you brought up my age

multiple times because we are taught like, you know, you know, there is a fear. If you're gambling your livelihood, you got a husband or a wife and you got kids. You got like, I didn't have that. So it was easier. So, you know, I'm not as brave, right. I was only screwing over my, myself if if if if if I failed really yeah it's still something it absolutely is and it is it is terrifying but I think that if you see a hole in the marketplace if you think you have a better mouse trap I don't go to the roulette table but you know kind of but take measured risks on yourself and on the fact that you have something that the market wants because that's how great stuff happens that's how we get innovation and I applaud it even for people that that failed

with it. I mean, you know, failure's been one of the best things to ever happen to me. If Jukepresso hadn't failed, HexCloud would not be as successful. When you think about the journey you took, you know, and where you are now, how much of where you got to do you attribute to the grind and the work you put it? And how much do you attribute to luck and timing, you know, just people just watching social media and getting into cooking and I don't know. What do you think? I mean, look, that's a really good question.

Is there luck involved? There is chance, whatever we want to call it, luck chance. Did a pandemic help? Yes. Do I think we were already wildly successful? Yes, we were. You know, there's stuff I can control. I can't control a pandemic, right?

I can't control, you know, a boom or a recession. I can control my work ethic, you know, that I can control. I can control me knowing that I have turned over every rock to make sure this is the best product, that I've looked at every marketing plan to know that this is one that's going to bring us a set level of revenue next year. I can control that. And it's kind of like, you know, being kind of out in rough seas, you know, I can man the tiller, right?

I can stay there and I can forego sleep. I can't control which wave is coming when. If I'm controlling the tiller, I have the best chance of us getting to our place successfully. And so I think that's what I try to do in my life and in my business is be the best guy at the helm to be able to control any storm that happens. Because it's going to come, right? It's just a matter of time.

Danny, thanks. Guy, thank you. This is fun. That's Danny Weiner, CEO and co-founder of Hexclad Cookware. By the way, during his time trying to break into Hollywood, Danny landed a few background parts and commercials, but his potential big break, he got a role in a film called Rising Sun, starring Sean Connery and Wesley Snipes. It wasn't even a bit part.

It was like, I was a cop. two, like a couple cops show up, and you can't even see me in it, which was so disappointing because originally I had a line, and it was short. And I don't know. It was like one of these, like, just the facts, please, even though I did get to meet Sean Connery. Thanks so much for listening to the show this week. Please make sure to click the follow button on your podcast app so you never miss a new episode of the show. And if you're interested in insights, ideas, and lessons from some of the world's greatest entrepreneurs, please sign up for my newsletter at guyraise.com or on Substack. This episode,

episode was produced by Carrie Thompson with music composed by Rumtin Arablewe. It was edited by Andrea Bruce with research help from Catherine Seifer. Our engineers were Gilly Moon and Jimmy Keely. Our production staff also includes Alex Chung, J.C. Howard, Chris Messini, Sam Paulson, John Isabella, Iman Ma'an, and Elaine Coates. I'm Guy Raz, and you've been listening to How I Built This.