How I Built This with Guy Raz - How I Built Resilience: Father Gregory Boyle of Homeboy Industries

Episode Date: November 19, 2020

Father Gregory Boyle is the founder of Homeboy Industries, one of the largest gang-intervention, rehabilitation and re-entry programs in the world. He speaks with Guy about how the Los Angeles based organization has adapted to continue training and employing people during the pandemic. These conversations are excerpts from our How I Built Resilience series, where Guy talks online with founders and entrepreneurs about how they're navigating turbulent times.Order the How I Built This book at:https://smarturl.it/HowIBuiltThisSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace. I talk to entrepreneurs all the time who are looking for a way to upgrade their digital footprint. Well, whether you're just starting out or you're scaling your business, Squarespace is the easiest way to build a great website that stands out. It's an all-in-one website platform that gives you everything you need to claim your domain, showcase your products, and get paid. Anyone can use Squarespace's cutting-edge design tools to build an online presence that truly reflects what makes your business special. There are templates, intuitive drag-and-drop editing, and even an AI-enhanced website builder. Then, Squarespace's built-in analytics tools help you make smarter business decisions. Review website traffic, learn where to focus engagement, and track revenue all in one place.

Looking to grow your business? Squarespace even offers fast, easy business financing through Squarespace capital. Go to Squarespace.com slash built for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, use offer code built to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Loans issued by Celtic Bank and serviced by Stripe. All loans subject to credit approval. This show is in partnership with Airbnb. This past summer I took my family to Vienna, and it was incredible. We spent our days wandering the old streets, stopping for coffee and pastries, visiting museums,

and just soaking up the history of one of the most beautiful cities in the world. And one of the things that made the trip so special was the whole. home we booked on Airbnb. It had tall windows, beautiful old details, and plenty of space for all of us. And being in that home on Airbnb, right in the middle of Vienna, walking distance from so much of the city made it feel less like a visit and more like we were actually living there. Plus, taking a trip is the perfect time to host your space on Airbnb. Your place, with all of its personal touches and its amazing location, could make someone else's vacation even better. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at

Airbnb.ca.ca.com. Hey, really quick before we start the show, the How I Built This Book is now a New York Times and Wall Street Journal bestseller. So thank you to all of you who ordered it and for your support of this show. If you haven't picked it up and you want to learn the secrets of how to develop an entrepreneurial mindset, how I built this, the book is for you. It's now available wherever books are sold and in most countries around the world, or by visiting how I Built This.com or Guy Raz.com. And thanks. Hey, everyone, and welcome to How I Built This Resilience Edition from NPR. On these episodes, we talk with entrepreneurs and change makers about how they're meeting today's challenges with new strategies and ideas. And today, we're

going to hear from Father Gregory Boyle. He's the founder of Homeboy Industries. Father Greg founded Homeboy Industries after years of serving as a Jesuit priest and later as a pastor at Dolores Mission Church in East L.A., where he saw the devastating effects of gang-related violence on his community. After operating for over 30 years, Homeboy Industries has become one of the largest gang intervention, rehabilitation, and re-entry programs in the world. about 15,000 folks a year walked through our doors trying to reimagine their lives. We were begun in 1988, just in my parish, which was the poorest in the city, but it had the highest concentration of gang activity. We had eight gangs at war with each other, and I started to bury kids. I buried my 283rd last week. Not all from that community, obviously, but I know a lot of gang members, so I get asked.

And so we just started things. We started a school. Then we started the jobs program, trying to find felony friendly employees. And then that was not so forthcoming. So we started businesses. Homeboy Bakery was the first in 92. And now we have nine social enterprises. But it's also a program of healing.

You know, so there's tattoo removal. There's therapy, case management classes. It's an amazing series of programs. And as you mentioned, I mean, things like tattoo removal or just helping people kind of reenter society after being in gangs or being incarcerated, obviously, while it's changing, many employers are still reluctant to hire people with felony records. And I know in response to that, you created your own businesses. Aside from the bakery, which is probably the best known because it has locations in Los Angeles, tell me a little bit more about some of the other social

enterprises that Homeboy Industries has launched. So at our headquarters, we have Homeboy bakery, Homegirl Cafe, and Homeboy Home Girl merchandise. And then we have the restaurant at the airport, the City Hall. We have Homeboy Diner, the only place to get food at City Hall. We have a thing called Homeboy Grocery, where we sell chips, salsa, and guacamole, and a variety of grocery stores. Homeboy recycling, which is a recycling e-waste, which is quite an extensive business and growing. Homeboy silk screen and embroidered.

That's been around for like 27 years. Wow. It's supposed to be nine in there, so I don't know how many of that. That's a lot. That's a lot. You know, I was telling you earlier before we went live that I first saw you profile in 60 minutes, and I think in the late 80s or early 90s. And I grew up in Los Angeles.

You're such a legendary figure there. You've been awarded the California Peace Prize. And, you know, I mean, you're a priest. At the end of the day, like, you're a priest. You still do mass, obviously socially distant for people who are incarcerated. but you're also an entrepreneur. Did you consider yourself as an entrepreneur when you founded this organization? Do you think of yourself that way now?

My board would never co-sign on a notion that I know anything about business. So I don't really see it that way. But we were always responding. If tattoos had become an obstacle and gang members wanted them off, we started that. Even in terms of our businesses, they were all kind of haphazard. You know, there was no business plan. there was an abandoned bakery across the street from our school, our parochial school, and a movie producer named Ray Stark after the unrest in 92 wanted to help.

And I said, well, okay, I don't know, buy this bakery. It has ovens. They don't work. You could fix them. We could put hair nets on enemy rival gang members. Well, that was the entirety of my business plan. So I think everything else kind of operated in the same way. There was a couple from the parish who wanted to.

start Rodriguez silk screening. And I said, well, don't start homeboy silk screening. And so that's how that was born. So, you know, it wasn't like some big master plan. And it was all kind of accidental. You know, we have a thing called the global homeboy network, which is, you know, 300 programs in the country and outside kind of modeled on our methodology. You know, and they all want to start a social enterprise and they all want to do food, which I always say don't. But, you know, because food is hard. Restaurants are really hard, but there's a sexiness to a bakery and a cafe and it's hard to talk people out of this. But I always tell them, do silk screening. That's recession proof. Everybody wants a T-shirt or their family reunion or their 5K race. And they'll go with you, even if it's more

expensive because it's kind of the Paul Newman feel good. You know, it's like, yeah, it costs more, but it helps employ felons, you know, so. And, I mean, you literally have rival gang members, formerly rival gang members working together baking baked goods. Yeah. I mean, that's kind of the byproduct of the whole thing. You know, it's like we'll hire you in our 18-month training program, but you're going to have to stand next to a guy you used to shoot at as you make croissants in the bakery. So it's like a three-fer.

You know, it's money in your pocket. You can feel good about yourself. And you cannot demonize people you know. And so you get to know people. And does that always work? Yes, always. I can't think of a single exception in 32 years. Wow.

Father Greg, you mentioned Paul Newman. And, you know, that really wasn't early social enterprise. Newman's own, which is still a little. around. I think they donate 100% of their proceeds to charity, and that was how they operated. It was an incredible business that continues to be. You started social enterprises before lots of people talked about them. Now, you know, many, many for-profit businesses describe themselves as social enterprises. Many of them are actually social enterprises. Do you think that it's easier in a sense to make that kind of business work when it's about mission rather than profit motive? Yeah, I

think so, although, you know, the caveat, like with Newman's own is it has to be high quality. Nobody's going to buy something that doesn't taste good. Yeah. And they'll pay more if they know that, in that case, all the proceeds go to help people. And the same is true with us. You know, people will come to us and say, I want to print up shirts, for example. You know, we give them a price and they go, whoa, I can get this for three cents a shirt. Well, go do it. But this is who we are. We pay a living wage and people are trying to get on with their lives. Give us your business or don't. But in the end, people like to feel good about what they're doing. And they'd be willing to pay as long as the quality is high and it's reasonably price. They're willing to pay more

if they know it's going to make a difference in the world. And so, you know, that's kind of the principle. I think that's a really important point, right? Because I've been to the bakery. It's terrific. It's a really high quality baked goods, so you can tell that high quality ingredients are being used. But then there's the story there. And so you actually get much more out of it than just the food. And has that been an important part of, I hesitate to use the word strategy, but the strategy in making these businesses sustainable? Yeah, all our strategy is an evolving thing. You're always backing your way into strategy. And yet if the driving force is to become, successful, then I think that you're doomed. And I kind of agree with Mother Teresa

says, we're not called to be successful. We're called to be faithful. And so at Homeboy, we just keep our heads down and we do the thing that we believe is good and true and right and just and oh well, you know, whatever happens happens. Now, you know, I think we've also been successful, but that isn't the engine. You know, the engine really is, let's do the right. and good and just thing. And somehow it's worked out. And whereas we're 32 years old, the first 10 years were marked by death threats, bomb threats, and hate mail. And so not from gang members, of course, but from people who had demonized gang members. So why are you helping the enemy, basically? And so we had to change that before people would, you know, send us money or buy our products.

And so, you know, we still have a long way to go. I just got a text message. from, we're an 18-month program. So they finish our program, and then we find them employment. And we found this guy really a good job at a Walmart warehouse. And he just said, they just escorted me out because there's a secondary process where you check people's records and stuff. And he was approved. He was given the job.

A wonderful guy, just a wonderful guy. And you're lucky to have them as an employee for some reason this morning the badge went off and he had to be escorted because they did a secondary review of his record. Yeah, well, like all of us, he's a whole lot more than the worst thing he's ever done. And it's like, how are we going to make progress? If somebody has given a life sentence, even though they only did five years in prison. You know, it's like I said, come back to us. I don't know what to do. But it's just we're not there yet. But better than we were 25 years ago.

Yeah. You know, I know that you are a Jesuit priest, so talking about profit or financial models is not part of your clerical training. But this is a business show, so I want to ask you a business question, and I hope you'll indulge me. I know you've got about 175 staff members. You've an annual budget about $19 million. Can you kind of walk us through how Homeboy Industries is structured and how the organization brings in revenue to to remain sustainable?

Yeah, we're like $22 million. Oh, wow. And so about half of that comes from our businesses. And the other half, we have to raise, which is a heavy lift by any means. You know, so as soon as we've raised $10 million, we have to go back and raise it all over again. So we have senior staff, and we have core workers, our homies who have gone through the program.

You know, they're good bakers. and they can teach the newer folks. And so we have all our trainees. Then we have all our part-timers who are kids released from probation camps who are working part-time and many of them are in our school. So, yeah, it's a heavy lift, you know, but it's a training program. So nobody has any illusions that somehow we won't have to raise money. Right.

But that's not a failing of the businesses. some are more profitable than others. And we hope at some point to have just a straight out profitable business that will pump more money into the nonprofit piece, you know, the training piece. And training people to go off and start their own businesses and their own enterprises, which I know people who have been through the program have gone on to do. One of the ideas you had, and you talked about this in a TED talk you gave, was Homeboy Plumbing, a plumbing service, which was not.

successful, it did not work out, which is important. You've got to try things and they may fail. How do you, how do you evaluate which social enterprises to pursue? Like if you're thinking about a new idea now, what do you look for? Yeah, that was a tough one because, you know, people come to us. And so two great guys who were starting their own business, you know, Lopez plumbing. And they were graduates of Loyal and Marymount University. So there was a kind of a Jesuit connection there. And so it was homeboy plumbing, you know, But who knew people didn't want gang members in their homes, you know, so it was not very successful. And it became a black hole. And so at some point, the board went, oh, no, no, no, we got to stop this. So that happens. You know, you back into things. You know, people will say, this seems like a good idea. What's the worst that could happen?

It could fail. You know, so big deal. I'm personally not very big on, let's plot this one out. you go with your gut, but I'm not the CEO of Homeboy anymore, so I have a wonderful business person who has lots of experience. You know, his gut is better than mine. So we're always exploring new ventures because God knows the demand is high. Yeah. And people, especially right now, you know, they're releasing all sorts of prisoners from state prisons.

and they just released 5,000 from the L.A. County jail. And they all come to Homeboy. Wow. When we come back in just a moment, more of my conversation with Father Gregory Boyle and how Homeboy Industries has handled an influx of inmates being released during the pandemic. Stay with us. I'm Guy Raz, and you're listening to How I Built This Resilience Edition from NPR. And one more thing. The New York Times bestselling book How I Built This is now a new.

available. It's a great read and a great gift for anyone looking for ideas, inspiration, wisdom, and encouragement to have the courage to put out an idea into the world. It's filled with tons of stories you haven't heard about how some of the greatest entrepreneurs you know and respect started out at the very bottom. Check out how I built this, the book, available wherever you buy your books. Hey, welcome back to how I built this resilience edition. And I'm talking with Father Gregory Boyle, he's the founder of Homeboy Industries. With California releasing thousands of incarcerated people to prevent the spread of COVID-19, I asked Father Greg how Homeboy Industries has been impacted. Are you finding, you know, just swelling numbers of people who are looking

to become part of the organization and to work? That has not relaxed in any way at all. So we're still inundated because there were kind of the only game in town. you know, where people come wanting to reimagine their lives. To say nothing of the fact that it looks like we'll be at 300 homicides in L.A. come the end of the year, and we haven't had that since 2009. But it's a rise. And again, it's if our diagnosis is steady, which is this is about a lethal absence of hope. And obviously, you know, the economy and the virus have impacted that hope or lack thereof.

So, you know, we need to infuse hope where hope is foreign, and that will go a long way to make the streets safer. But I've buried a lot of homies killed during this time of pandemic, which wasn't so much true before it. Well, all right, let's talk about the pandemic. You know, so much of what you do is around food and food service. When you realized in March that this thing was going to be real and was probably going to shut things down for some time, what were some of the decisions that you had to make, your organization had to make to weather the storm, to be able to continue to support all of these people who are in this program and depend on it? Well, as I mentioned before to you, the Homeboy Bakery and Cafe at LAX Terminal 4 has just reopened.

I think it was last week. Wow. And that's after all these many months. The Homeboy Diner at City Hall has yet to open. But we were so fortunate because our pivot was immediate in the HomeGroar Cafe and catering and the bakery. So we were immediately got these contracts with. the city, county, and with the World Central Kitchen, which was started by Jose Andres. And so now, you know, we're 17,000 meals a week, which is just, I think we're up to like

200,000 meals so far. And, you know, that's really kept us alive. And we haven't laid off anybody, which is kind of remarkable. So it's not just preparing the meals. It's this mechanism of delivery to homeless and addressing food insecurity in our county, seniors, shut-ins. So it's been kind of a remarkable turn, and we've been fortunate to be able to make that pivot so successfully. As you know very well, I mean, the pandemic has particularly hit communities of color hard. A lot of Latino communities in Los Angeles have been hit harder than other communities. What's been happening with folks who've been through your program that are involved in in Homeboy Industries? How have you been able to support or even maybe even protect them during this time?

Well, like everybody, we were probably shut down for the first two months maybe, but we've been open since then where we've been designated by the mayor as an essential organization. So our protocols are quite strict. They take the temperature. There's a series of questions. Everybody has to wear a mask and everybody is distant. So the only thing we haven't done in our headquarters, we haven't yet figured out how to do tattoo removal because it's such a small space and they haven't figured it out, but they will. But, you know, I've done two double funerals from COVID, a homie and his father and then a homie's mom and grandmother.

And it's not every day that you do double funerals. You know, I mean, it's kind of a remarkable thing. And I just know countless folks who, because they're disproportionately impacted by the virus, because they're in these essential worker positions. And so the risk level gets higher. And what about you? I know that you had some help challenges and how are you keeping yourself safe? Well, you know, I'm fine.

You know, I have leukemia, but I've been battling it for a lot of years. and I've been really fortunate not to have to battle it since March. So, and the last treatments I got were radiation. And so far so good. But, you know, the homies are kind of, I just go with it. I surrender to it. You know, they put me in a kind of a tent, a little Casbah that's in the parking lot because they refuse to let me in the building.

It's a tent that's very airy and it's like being outside. They're more protective of me than I would be. but I'm just going with it. Father Greg, I want to bring in some questions from our audience. This is from Rohan Shah via Facebook and Rohans in North Carolina and asks, do you think some of the training programs that you're engaged in could actually begin in prison? Yeah, they could. I mean, prisons, you know, should shift from punishment to be more restorative for sure.

We've been invited in once there was a warden who was very progressive who wanted. to give Homeboy Industries a whole pod of the prison. But we kind of feel like it's a little bit like rehab. You know, if you force people into rehab, it doesn't really work. So we always say, you know, walk through our doors and we got you. But you kind of have to walk through our doors. Our program is not for those who need it. It's only for those who want it.

Certainly prisons could do better than they're doing. Instead of just warehousing, they could be helpful. But, you know, there's something about, you know, kind of walking through the door and choosing that, that's fuller and more whole. I heard you talk about this concept of radical kinship in a TED talk you gave, finding connection and common ground with strangers. How does that idea steer your leadership? Well, kinship is the whole goal, you know, if I could get sort of biblical here. You know, Jesus says that you may be one and that we belong to each other.

So you want to create a community of beloved belonging. You know, the great John Lewis says, we all live in the same house. That's not an aspiration. It's not one day we might. Or some people live in the basement and some people live on the third floor. No, we all live in the same house. So Homeboy tries to be the front porch of the house. Everybody wants to live in a place of radical.

kinship of exquisite mutuality where there is no us and them. That's the whole goal. Even in terms of our own country's belief, you know, a more perfect union, that's what it's about. So that's always the goal. And Homeboy is a solution, I guess, but it's also a sign. It doesn't want to point stuff out. It wants to point to something. It wants to point to what if we really believe that we belong to each other? And that's a game changer once we believe it. Father Greg, this year has been a year filled with grief for so many people. You mentioned all the funerals that you have presided over.

How do you counsel people to deal with grief when people are grieving and when people are also under incredible emotional pressure? from everything that they have been going through this year, what are ways that you have found work to help people cope? Well, you want to put everything in its place. You want to live as though the truth were true, and you want to put first things recognizably first. So in terms of death, you know, if death is the worst thing that can happen to you, then you're going to be toppled by life itself. So you want to be able to put it in its place, you know. But with grief, you know, our lives are disrupted, but our entire identities in many ways are torpedoed. So you have to lean into the grief and you have to find yourself curious about it. And then pretty soon you're savoring and then you're relishing and then all of a sudden

you're being led to joy. That really happens if you do those things. Because then you're anchored in the present moment in the here and now and you're delighting and who's right in front of you. And that's the whole goal, if I could get biblical, you know, my joy, yours, your joy complete. That's the whole ballgame. And related to the earlier thing about kinship, that's where the joy is.

So we're always trying to get to joy. And like the marriage vows, you know, in good times and in bad, in sickness and in health, it's joy in all those circumstances. So it doesn't really matter how things turn out. Joy is possible right here and now no matter what's happening. That's an excerpt for my conversation with Father Gregory Boyle, the founder of Homeboy Industries. To see our full interview, you can go to Facebook.com slash how I built this.

And if you want to see all of our past live interviews, you can find them there or at YouTube.com slash NPR. If you want to find out more about the How I Built This Resilience series or other virtual NPR events, you can go to nprpresents.org. This episode was produced by Liz Metzker with help from J.C. Howard, Will Mitchell, Bruce Grant, Matt Adams, El Manion, Gianna Capadona, John Isabella, Julia Carney, Neva Grant, and Jeff Rogers. Our intern is Farah Safari. Thanks for listening. Stay safe, and I'll see you back here in a few days. I'm Guy Raz, and you've been listening to How I Built This Resilience Edition from NPR.