How I Built This with Guy Raz - How I Built Resilience: Live with Deval Patrick

Episode Date: June 25, 2020

Former Massachusetts Governor Deval Patrick talks to Guy about how the protests for racial justice have resonated with him personally, and how this moment can spark meaningful change for African Americans — in the world of business and beyond. These conversations are excerpts from our How I Built Resilience series, where Guy talks online with founders and entrepreneurs about how they're navigating turbulent times.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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made it feel less like a visit and more like we were actually living there. Plus, taking a trip is the perfect time to host your space on Airbnb. Your place with all of its personal touches and its amazing location could make someone else's vacation even better. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.ca.ca. Hey, everyone, and welcome to how I built this resilience edition. This is where we've been talking with entrepreneurs about how to think creatively during this moment of economic instability. A few days ago, we invited Deval Patrick, the former gun. Governor of Massachusetts to join us. Governor Patrick is now an entrepreneur, investor, and mentor to younger business leaders.

And he recently wrote a deeply personal article about his own experiences with racism. Governor Patrick, one of the reasons why we really want to talk to you today, not only because I've interviewed you before in the past and you're just so thoughtful, but you also recently wrote an article and you posted on Medium. It's called America's Awakening to What It Means to Be Black. I mean, I just want to quote a couple things that you wrote in the that piece. We hear from the famous and the accomplished how their fame and accomplishment has not immunized them from the presumption of dangerousness by police. I gave up going to baseball or

football games long ago because I got tired of having to overhear drunken fans at Fenway Park or Gillette Stadium shout out epithets at players on the field. You write, like every other black trial lawyer, I know you were a trial lawyer, I've been mistaken for a defendant awaiting trial and directed elsewhere when I came to sit with other attorneys near the bench. The cut of my suit or the quality of my briefcase never mattered. I mean, I read your memoir. This is one of the most personal things I've ever seen you write. Tell me about writing it.

Well, you know, we've all been, or at least so many of my friends and I have been contacted by our friends, white and black and every other kind, asking how we're doing, you know, in the wake of the videotaped killing of George Floyd and of the shooting of Ahmad Arbery. And that astonishing Central Park video of Amy Cooper reacting to being told to leash her dog. So my black friends and I, we've been exchanging with each other some of the things that we have written and some of the things that we have read that really are a longer form, a more complete form. form of answer to the question, how are you doing? Because it's not simple. We're not doing well. In a way, especially for those who have been as blessed as I and some of my professional friends to have lived very much the American dream, we are reminded that that dream has been elusive for so many

other young men and women just as creative, just as ambitious, because of structural barriers that only a few of us have been able to overcome. We're reminded of what my what my wife calls the indignities du jour. You know, it's the sort of thing we talk about all over the dinner table, but you find in order to function in the larger world, you have to tamp down and even, you know, try to put out of your mind. I hadn't remembered guy until a young, then young, now less so, aid of mine in the campaign and in the governor's office reminded me that in the, early days of being governor, maybe in the early months of being governor, I was in the front seat of a black sedan official car in the passenger seat being driven by a black state trooper in

plane clothes. And we were pulled over by a marked state trooper car. You know, just why? It was even more ironic is we had lights on our car as well. And when we put them on, he still wouldn't back off. And he just, I think he was new. He just couldn't process that there was a, you know, a trooper who identified himself as a trooper who was black and plain clothes and a governor who identified himself as a governor in a suit sitting in the front seat. The fact that it happened in some ways is less significant in the point I'm making than the fact that I had forgotten it because you push this stuff down so you can keep going and do what you need to do. You know, I wonder whether, because I think that. There was a line in that article you wrote about everyone I know who is African American in America suppresses rage all the time just to function, just to get through the day. And I imagine that watching these mass demonstrations and these conversations about racial injustice and also a racial reawakening, reading that article, it seemed like kind of the words in that article just flowed out of you.

Well, there was more. I cut it down. But, you know, it's, I share the rage. I also, I also share the optimism. You know, this, this country's been good to me, but I have never, I've never forgotten it has not been good to everyone. And I think that there have been all kinds of situations that I and others are, are recalling where the, and by the way, none of my experience amounts to what happened to George Floyd. I'm not trying to. equate them. I'm talking about the through line of devaluing black life, black talent, black ambition, you know, that is an experience for all of us and that we are so often in interactions with our white colleagues and friends or with others reluctant to bring up because we don't want to have to, number one, do the additional work of just making them feel comfortable before we bring them up. And secondly, having to persuade them that it happened. You know, there is a kind of a curse, I describe it to being black, which is that you're always asking yourself in this country whether the thing that went sideways in your life was on account

of race. It isn't always, but sometimes it is. Yeah. And the way you know isn't entirely to do with whether it, you know, is peppered with the N-word. And if you look at the, you look at the stats, You can see it's an awful lot of what we've been doing in this country and how and whom we've been leaving behind that is the result of policies or practices that have their roots in racially motivated decisions. Yeah. You have worked in major corporate environments, Coca-Cola, Texaco, investment firms. And now I'm sure you're noticing a lot of big companies, Fortune 500 companies, are speaking up about their support for racial justice. What do you make of it? I mean, do you think it's authentic? I mean, do you think businesses will or could actually lead the way towards a more equitable and just country? Or is it an illusion?

Well, so I'm going to say two things. First of all, we all have reason to be skeptical. But it is definitely a step in the right direction because frequently businesses stay out of things that are viewed as politically hot. or socially uncomfortable. You know, I guess I'd step back and say, I believe that we need to recapture a notion of community in this country, that we have a stake in our neighbor's dreams and struggles as well as our own. The way I understood community growing up on the south side of Chicago, you know,

and I think we may have talked about this, where every child was under the jurisdiction of every single adult on the block. Yeah. You messed up down the street in front of Ms. Jones. she'd go upside your head as if you were hers and then call home so you've got it two times. And I think what those adults are trying to teach us is that we belong to each other. That doesn't absolve anybody of personal responsibility. It doesn't negate the necessity for grit and determination and so forth,

but that a community does owe something to each other. And I think that is also true of the corporate community. and my work in the corporate community has been to that effect. They have been traditionally quite timid because they have customers and business relationships across the political spectrum. But it seems to me, you know, we could move a lot more away from right and left and in the direction of right and wrong. And businesses could do that without jeopardizing their commercial relationships.

So I am encouraged by what I have heard. but everybody needs to watch for what these companies do. And if I may, when I left my second term as governor, I founded and led an impact investing fund, a fund that was designed to make equity investments in going concerns, small and medium-sized businesses for both financial return and measurable social or environmental impact. And I did that at Bain Capital.

And I was proud to do it. And it's been a terrific success. And it goes on. When I saw the first internal statement that Bain Capital put out to its employees after, you know, in the last few weeks after the George Floyd videotape, it was appropriate and restrained and measured. And it, you know, there was nothing wrong with it, but it felt negotiated. It felt like what you would kind of expect. I'm glad there was one, no doubt about it. About 10 days later, the firm issued a different statement or a new statement, and it talked

about some of the things it was going to do. Interestingly, hiring and promotion was a part of it, but it's not where it started. It talked about taking the firm's resources and expertise, I think it was $100 million, and investing it alongside coaching in black business development and entrepreneurial growth in the greater Boston area. That's action. That's the kind of thing I'm looking for is the next step from corporate America. When we come back in just a moment, Governor Patrick offers some thoughts on how political leaders can respond to the protests.

Stay with us. I'm Guy Raz, and you're listening to How I Built This Resilience Edition from NPR. Hey, welcome back to how I built this resilience edition. And we're going to continue my conversation with Deval Patrick, the former governor of Massachusetts, now a managing director at Bain Capital. And as always, we got some great questions from people in the audience. We're getting a bunch of questions. This is from Alison Biggs. She asks, what concrete actions can elected officials at all levels of government take to answer the calls of protesters in cities and towns across the country? So it's a policy question.

It's a tricky, challenging question because I think if we had the answers, we would be able to give them. But what sort of actionable, measurable things could be implemented that could actually have, a significant impact very quickly. So I think it's really, really important that we not look for quick solutions. I mean, if they have avail themselves, great. But we got here by decades and decades of bad habits, and we're going to have to commit to undo those habits and stick to that, sustain that, so we get long-term results.

And I think in some ways it starts with a kind of philosophical question. we got to stop acting as if justice is this limited resource that gets apportioned in ways so that, you know, if you get a little bit more justice, I get a little less. That's not how it works, right? There is a notion. Much of it is instinctive, but that has practical implications about how we let the values of equality, opportunity, and fair play not be one-offs, but be central to every decision leaders made. So, concrete. If we start with policing, we've been asking the police, by the way, on this point, I think it's quite true of teachers as well. We've been asking the police to do a lot more of what used to be done in other parts of the community and through other services to communities, mental health services, domestic abuse services and supports. You know, poverty is sort of the underlying challenge of so many of the communities where police, policing is excess. But when I hear calls to defund the police, what I hear at their most constructive is to rethink the range of services and supports that enable people in community

to help themselves and to strengthen themselves. And that's going to be, you know, everything from education to some of the specific social services that I'm talking to health care, right? And then alongside that, you know, how you teach de-escalation as a first response by police. We could demilitarize the police. That's a path we've been on for some while now that President Obama halted, if not slowed down, and President Trump accelerated. So those are a couple of things. You move on up.

You know, we talked to, I mentioned health care briefly. We've had a lot of conversation about how to move to universal. care and there are a lot of great ideas about how to that we ought to get on with that and we ought to deal with the need for affordable housing and I mean you know I'm talking as if these are things unique to black people but more and more Americans everywhere are struggling with the very same kinds of limitations on their ability to reach for the American dream which I think speaks to this idea that when you begin to really reckon with racial injustice actually it benefits everyone. Yes, from a program point of view. But, you know, the other thing that's happening right now is we're having a lot of

conversations that are making some of our friends and colleagues and fellow members of our community uncomfortable. And we're going to have to get comfortable with being uncomfortable for a little while. We just have to have those conversations. By the way, that's what folks like me have had to learn, how to manage being uncomfortable. And frankly, I mean, I would say fortunately, I'm curious about people. I'm interested in people. I have learned through lots and lots of trial and error to open my heart and leave it open. And I have discovered, you know, alongside some occasional heartbreak that there are some remarkable, deep, intimate, loving and meaningful relationships that I've built across all kinds of, all kinds of differences. And I think those friends feel that way about me as well. But you had to be uncomfortable. You had to take a chance on that. You know what I'm saying? And I think we have to take a chance. on crossing the race line, as it were, if we're going to get to a place of better understanding. I want to go back to something you talked about with Bain and their initiative to support black entrepreneurs and ventures. It's a tricky question to ask because we're in the midst

of an economic crisis. But in a sense, is this a moment or an opportunity to revive and revitalize black entrepreneurship? Oh, Lord, I hope so. I think entrepreneurship is one of the ways that we're going to save the economy generally. And I think it's a terrific way to start to build generational wealth and create opportunity among black people. But, you know, usually, at least in my experience, guy, when this conversation comes up, we get to access to capital. And the conversation is really about working capital, about loans and not about equity. And that's different, as you know.

And I will tell you, even in my fund, when we were looking to invest alongside black entrepreneurs, there was unease, sometimes, and unfamiliarity often with the idea of having an equity partner come in and work alongside you. And I understand that, but some of that is exposure and coaching. And that's why I think, that part of what Bain Capital is doing, and I think there are going to be others who do it

is so important. It's not just money. It's exposure. I have got so many questions for you. Alison Biggs writes, your medium piece is beautiful, and she asks, are there other pieces of art or media that inspire or sustain you that you'd like more people to read or hear or see? Well, you know, this may this will surprise some of you, but I'm a great admirer. of Winston Churchill. And he was an unlikely leader in many respects without giving away all of his story, a deeply flawed person, but who had an openness to what ordinary people were experiencing and how to engage them so that they could surmount incredible challenges and expect more of themselves as well as of their leadership. And I've always admired his model.

of leadership. So I go back to, I think I've read just about everything that's ever been written about him. I go back to him over and over again, as I do to Lincoln, who I think also in crisis, grew and knew he was growing and evolving and stayed humble enough to be able to do so, which I think has always been a lesson for me. And then they're, you know, their poems and paintings I love as well. This is a question that several people have asked, including Claire Murashima. Hello, Claire. Do you think this moment, Governor, is different? I mean, because it seems like it is. It seems like there is a mass movement in this country now that is speaking loud and clear. I hope so. You know, we have a famously short attention span in America. You know, we tend to turn to the next flashy and shiny outrage and forget. what it is we were just focused on. I am feeling so grateful to the marchers who have stayed

out and on the streets overwhelmingly peaceful for as long as they have and who are insisting on more than, you know, kind and sympathetic comments, but are more and more coalescing around an action plan. So I'm just incredibly grateful for them. And I'm grateful for the many many others who have unrest in their heart but can't be out on the on the streets and are expressing themselves in ways that we see that that you know we got to start paying attention to justice again governor devalpatrick thank you so much thank you guy be well that's an excerpt for my conversation with deval patrick the former governor of massachusetts to see our full interview you can go to facebook dot com slash how i built this and if you want to see all of our

live interviews, you can find them there or at YouTube.com slash NPR. And if you want to find out more about the How I Built This Resilience series or other virtual NPR events, you can go to nprpresents.org. This episode was produced by Candice Lim, with help from John Isabella, Julia Carney, Gianna Capadona, Neva Grant, and Jeff Rogers. Thanks for listening. Stay safe and I'll see you in a few days. I'm Guy Raz, and you've been listening to How I Built This from NPR.