How I Built This with Guy Raz - How I Built Resilience: Live with Troy Carter

Episode Date: June 6, 2020

Troy Carter, the founder of Q&A and Atom Factory, speaks to Guy about the painful events of the past few months—and especially the past two weeks—and how they've affected the music industry and him personally. These conversations are excerpts from our How I Built Resilience series, where Guy talks online with founders and entrepreneurs about how they're navigating turbulent times. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Airbnb.ca.ca. slash host. Hey, everyone. So as many of you know, we launched this special series back in March to talk about how businesses are building resilience during this really challenging time. We've had some amazing conversations, and I hope they've been helpful. And this week, we plan to have conversations with lots of people from the entertainment industry to find out how they're dealing with the global health and economic crisis. But we decided to take a pause. We didn't want to take any attention away from a much, much more important conversation happening in America right now over racial injustice. So we postponed most of those conversations, except for two, including this one you're about to hear with Troy Carter. We first profiled Troy

Troy back in May of 2017 on the podcast, how we grew up in West Philadelphia with no money or connections and rose to become one of the most influential people in the music industry. And I would add to that, one of the kindest as well. Troy's managed everyone from Lady Gaga to John Legend and also founded several of his own media and music companies. We were originally meant to talk entirely about how the pandemic has disrupted the music industry, which we did, as you will hear later. But of course, the more pressing story about the demonstrations and protest demanding justice was something we wanted to talk about first. How are you doing? You know, I can't even lie and say I'm doing well

right now. I'm probably where a lot of people are right now. Just, you know, I think already dealing with the global health crisis and then to sort of have the events that unfolded over the last few weeks and the aftershocks of those events happen as well, I think it's been a lot. just unpacking things emotionally and, but also intellectually and strategically and just getting to work on somebody's issues. How are you talking to your kids about it? You know what? My 17-year-old daughter, she was actually at the protest in L.A.

right before, like, things got crazy on Saturday. For me, as scary as it is, you know, to have her at one of these protests, to be honest, which is just as scary to be black in America, but not wanting to stop her from expressing her feelings and exercising her rights as an American citizen. And, you know, on the phone with my 24-year-old son as, you know, you got protesters going throughout the neighborhood that he lives. just making sure that he's physically safe. So, you know, I think where I think is an eye-opening moment for a lot of people in America, just to be honest, this is like everyday life for a lot of African-Americans in our country. And, you know, recently I was on a trip probably five months ago with my YPO forum, which is, you know, Young President's organization.

and we did a retreat to Mexico City and it's 10 of us, we get out of our SUV to pull up to the hotel, all of the guys go in the back to get their bags. And the moment I go in the back to get my bag, I get attacked by security, like physically attacked by security. Yeah. You know, and I'm the only black guy in my YPO forum,

but it was a crazy moment because, you know, they've heard me talk about this before, but to actually see. see this in action is just as biased that's kind of built in. But I'm glad this is being addressed. And now it becomes a real conversation. Yeah, I mean, as a parent, Troy, like, I'm sure you struggle, right? Because on the one hand, I mean, your kids are independent adults, right? And they want to be there and express their anger. And you want to support that. But also, as a parent, you're worried about their safety. And I'm sure that must have been a kind of an anguishing thing for you to

to go to kind of think about. Yeah, absolutely. And it's the reality of what we have to deal with, though. One of my sons is in the music industry, and I worry about him traveling. These are things that I genuinely worry about. I was on the phone with my best friend and co-founder, Jay Irvin, the other day. And I have this airstream, and he called up asking a bar to Airstream to drive from L.A. to North Carolina. where his mother lives.

And his mother called him from North Carolina and said, I'm worried about you driving down here because, you know, the South is still the South. When he and I spoke, it's like, this is like a conversation that a mother would have with her son in the 50s or 60s during the civil rights movement. And the fact that we still have to worry about our lives

as we drive across the country to do a road trip, It's just a different set of concerns that we still live with as parents and as citizens. And it's hard for people to really understand it. And especially like somebody made a comment in a chat room I was in the other night about how money could change it. And I'm like, money doesn't matter. And power doesn't matter. It's just this bias that that's sort of baked in and the recipe. of America that we've had to live with.

But now I think what we've seen that's different with these protests, this is what I consider just a merger of the left behind. These are white, black, Asian, Hispanic, people that have been, you know, saddled with student debt, people who can't pursue an American dream because of just the way that the economic divide right now, people who feel like, you know, they're not going to have their shot. And what we're seeing in the streets right now is just a merger of all of this built up frustration.

You know, Troy, I, in this past decade, you know, we've had Trayvon Martin. We've had so many examples. But, I mean, it's strange because already 10 years ago, I feel like we started to have these conversations and nothing has changed. And it's, it's just very, very depressing. I don't know, I don't know any other word to use. Yeah, I wrote a letter to my staff yesterday, because it took me a while just to kind of even really talk openly about this. And I referenced Rodney King, right? You know, we had technology at that point, which was like the camcorder. You know, within the till, you didn't have technology to sort of address that, right? And then when we saw the incident with Karen and the birdwatcher in Central Park, and we saw a, you know, a white woman weaponize her privilege.

And actually, it was fascinating to me to actually watch the process. And the octave go up in her voice with fear. That octave was a dog whistle that people who could hear it knew what that note was. And to see the process of privilege and action, I think hit a nerve with people. because people aren't used to actually seeing that and then seeing an innocent person on the other end. What kind of pissed me off with it, though, you know, in the news the next day, you know, I'm reading the New York Post and everything and it's talking about, you know, the guy had a Harvard degree. You know, he was a birdwatcher. He's on the board of this, you know, society and these things. Who cares? We shouldn't have to justify any of those facts. He shouldn't have to have a Harvard degree or be a birdwatch.

to be an innocent person being accused of something like that. That could have ended up in him being arrested or his death. And I think within this truncated period of time, people have been able to see these things all back to back on camera within a matter of a few weeks at a time when people have had this pent-up frustration from being in their homes, being away from their friends, being away.

And so people are just bursting at the scenes right now and all of this frustration. What I hope is that this isn't a moment, that this isn't just a blip on our historical radar, that this can be a catalyst for change. Because if this is just a moment, shame on America. You know, Troy, I lived in Germany for two and a half years as a reporter. And what really struck me about Germany, and Germany is an imperfect country. There's racism. There's anti-Semitism.

but they embarked on a decades-long experiment to reckon with their past. It's not perfect, but they have become a healthier society and a stronger society and really a more peaceful society because they have made a collective national attempt to reckon with their past. The United States has never done that. And it sort of occurs to me, I think, to many people that were sort of reaping what we sowed as a country, you know, for our failure to reckon with 400 years. of slavery and oppression. So, so like in America, you still have statues of oppressors, you know, with like only five years ago, we were managed a Megan Trainor and we went on this concert tour of state fairs. And this was our first time doing it.

So I decided to take my wife and my two daughters. We're on a tour bus and we get to Troy, Pennsylvania. ironically, we got off the bus. And I remember my daughter who's six now was one. So she was just starting to walk. And me and my daughter who's 17 now were walking through the fair. And it's all these merch stands with Confederate flags at one after another. And a guy walked up to me and, you know, basically said, like, you know, what are you doing here? Like, you know, are you or dancer, like, you know, what are you doing here? And this is Pennsylvania. I grew up in Philadelphia. So you would have never, and then we went to Ohio after. And on stage, it was a

Confederate flag right behind the stage. And Charlie Puth refused to go on for his sound chat until they took that flag down. This is five years ago. So we're still reminded of our place in this country. So you'll never get to reconciliation. We all know the truth, but we'll never get the reconciliation. That's Troy Carter. When we come back in just a moment, we'll switch gears a little bit. I'll ask Troy about how the music industry can play a role and what it still has to learn in this very difficult moment. Stay with us. I'm Guy Raz, and you're listening to How I Built This from NPR. Hey, welcome back to How I Built This, Resilience Edition. Troy Carter has built an amazing career in the music industry. And in the early days, he relied on live performances and

world tours to grow his client's fan base. But with concerts canceled for the year and possibly next, and fans stuck at home, I asked Troy, what will the music industry look like in the next year or so? It's such a weird moment to talk about the entertainment industry or anything, really, because I think my mind and the minds of so many people watching is focused on this really just overwhelming conversation, the events that are happening. But we're also in the midst of an economic crisis and a global health crisis. How is the overall situation affecting the production of music, recording music, recording albums, collaborations? Obviously, live concerts too, but how is it affecting the industry right now? The good thing with the music industry, our product on the record side is mostly digital.

So, you know, we had the luxury of not having to rely on manufacturing plants or trucking and all of those things to get our product, you know, from here to there. And if we were still in the CD business, we'd be really screwed, you know, if people had to actually go to a store to buy the product. So I think on that side, we're fine. on the touring side is catastrophic. And the reality is we probably won't see this look normal until 20, 22, in my opinion. You know, just because I think you have one, still the social distancing. You think about economically whether people are going to be able to afford tickets. But on a positive side, I think it's going to accelerate technology in terms of finding better options around live streaming.

Yeah. I was just telling a friend. recently, like the live concert experience is good in one sense, terrible in another sense, because only a small percentage of people have really good seats, because some of the seat is just terrible, like where you don't see the details. And artists work so hard on like these details and the nuance with lighting and all of these things. And I think technology can provide everybody with a much better seat and a much better experience. So I don't think live would go completely away, but I do think technology can provide a very rich experience. And if I'm over

the age of 65, I'm sorry, but I'm not going to a U-2 or Eagles concert with 100,000 people in the audience, right? So I think, you know, seeing some of these legacy bands is going to be tough, you know, just because, you know, sort of short of a vaccine and all of these things, I don't think people are really going to take that risk. But I do think this is going to provide a good opportunity. I want to ask, we're actually getting some questions. And this is from Andrea. She's asking, she says, it doesn't feel right to me to be all over social media with anything other than Black Lives Matter content or even to release non-political music right now. What are your thoughts on releasing music in the coming weeks? Music is a healer. You know, I think at the end of the day,

we still need things that are going to make us smile, bring people to. together, I think there's going to be a lot of politically and socially driven music that's born out of this moment. But I do think where I do agree is, we can't walk away from the subject. We can't pretend that this moment didn't happen. I don't think people should be tone deaf in this moment and not address it. But the way I feel like last night, I got sick of watching the news. And I just needed some Netflix for a second just to take my mind off of it. So hopefully people are still releasing content where we can step away and sort of refresh and have a moment where it just doesn't break us down completely. This is a question from Will Plays.

Do you think that the music industry is suffering right now? I mean, you can't physically promote music. You can't perform live. I mean, is the industry taking a hit right now? Funny enough, I think it's taking a hit in two ways, right? So I think both crises is showing the vulnerability of the music business. You know, I think with the pandemic, you know, we talked about the fragility of the touring business, promotion business, even down to going out to visit radio stations and promote the

records and doing late night shows and all of that stuff. You know, you sort of see what a fragility is. So that's COVID-related. Where we're seeing with the sort of racial crisis that's going on, people, talk about how the NFL only has, you know, three or four black coaches and no African-Americans in the front office, that music industry is much, much worse than the NFL. What black music has contributed financially to the music industry, what black culture is contributed, you know, financially to the music industry. And when you look at the ratio of actual black executives in the

music industry. It's appalling. You actually, believe it or not, have white people that are the heads of black music with a title at some of these companies. And literally, you have qualified black executives in the company, but actual white people with a title, the head of black music, is like, it's crazy. And so, like, the fact that the music industry that prides itself on being progressive and providing opportunities still has these structures in place. And I think the last couple of weeks has sort of brought this part of the conversation to a head as well. And it sounds like if ever there was going to be a kick in the butt, now would be that moment. He would hope.

It's about being fair, guy. When we think about fairness, I'm going to rephrase that because I want to be very, very, very, very frank. A lot of people are under the impression that it's like, okay, everybody has a shot. We live in a country where everybody has a shot. But when you look at the education system, you look at where people actually start from, I know for a fact, my personal journey was incredibly difficult. And I know how much luck was on my side. I know how much. I know how much Things just had to go completely right at any given moment for things to go well. But I had to get very, very lucky to get where I am today.

And we don't want handouts. That's the thing, like where I had to explain to somebody this weekend, you know, they're like, okay, we want to do a foundation for black businesses. And I'm like, no, it's not a foundation. Like those black businesses should be held to the same standard of return on capital. It's just the opportunity to have access to that capital, have access to the support and training that why combinator companies may get or that, you know, first round capital companies may get. Like it's just a matter of access. And even when in places where certain individuals may fall short because they may be.

I have the background, let's lean in a little bit more understanding that there may be a little bit more of a learning curve, but giving them the ability to catch up. That's the part that's challenging. I went through something a couple years ago, like a dispute, and what I was explaining to the person on the other side of the dispute, I made a statement along the lines of, I said, as a black executive, is a lot of other black executives behind me. So you hurting me isn't just hurting me. It's hurting a lot of black executives behind me. And the person said, they actually said it to TMZ.

They said, Troy Carter uses the race card. I said the race card. I'm like, you're born with the deck of cards. You use that deck every single day. So the fact I have to educate you on the impact of what you're doing and how it impacts other people, the results are different. If we watch this video in five or ten years from now and you could imagine how this moment will change things or impact things, what do you think could happen? I mean, I don't want to ask if you're hopeful because I hate that question, but it's sort of a version of that question. You know, are you, do you think that this moment can really actually change things and move the needle in a significant way that other moments haven't?

If American history teaches us anything, the answer would be no. But as an entrepreneur and somebody who is just crazily optimistic about everything, I am optimistic that this is going to have an impact on this generation who may, may not put up with what they're seeing right now because it impacts them on a personal level as well. So where race may not impact you, but I can promise you the lack of economic opportunity is going to impact a lot of people. That's going to be the bigger impact guy. And that's the part that nobody's talking about right now. Where we have a lot in common in terms of across every single race and ethnicity and gender and religion is economic divide. And with economic divide, that's when we're going to see opportunities go away. And so if we're looking in 10 years,

we're going to see the impact that technology is going to have on the workforce and how many jobs are going to go away. And when we look at where education is right now, education won't keep up with technology. So we need to have a lot more empathy right now. I just beg people, just be empathetic. Look at what happens in communities in our country. Look at like when people talk about black on black crime, people talk about what's happened in family structures,

look at the psychological impact that slavery has had on families where I couldn't imagine my, My kids being torn out of my arms. I can't imagine all of these things. And so just have some empathy around this issue. Let's just admit that we got it wrong as a country and take a step back and try to fix this moving forward. Let's have some empathy right now. Troy Carter, thank you for joining us.

Thank you for being here and your wisdom. And I hope to see you when we're all able to see each other face to face again. Yes, and thank you, Guy, and thank you for giving us this platform. We appreciate it. Thanks. That was my conversation with Troy Carter, the founder of Q&A, a music and technology company. To see our full interview, you can go to Facebook.com slash how I built this. And if you want to see all of our past live interviews, you can find them there or at YouTube.com slash NPR.

And if you want to find out more about the How I Built This Resilience series or other virtual NPR events, you can go to NPRPresents.org. and of course you can check your feed every Monday for a brand new full-length episode of How I Built This. This episode was produced by Candace Lim with help from John Isabella, Julia Carney, Gianna Capadona, Neva Grant, and Jeff Rogers. Thanks for listening. Stay safe and I'll be back with you in just a couple of days. I'm Guy Raz and you've been listening to How I Built This from NPR.