How I Built This with Guy Raz - How I Built Resilience: Taha Bawa of Goodwall

Episode Date: July 30, 2020

As COVID-19 continues to affect the global economy, college graduates are entering a job market reminiscent of the 2008 financial crisis. Taha Bawa is hoping to help with Goodwall, the social networking site he co-founded that links students to jobs and opportunities all around the world. These conversations are excerpts from our How I Built Resilience series, where Guy talks online with founders and entrepreneurs about how they're navigating turbulent times.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Goodwall is a social network that connects high school and college graduates with jobs and scholarships. Today, Goodwall has raised over $16 million with more than a million users on the platform. I spoke with Taha from his company headquarters in Switzerland, where he gave me a rundown of Goodwall's mission. For people who've never heard of Goodwall, just kind of tell us how does it work? It's essentially a mobile first platform that's designed for the next generation. We started off with high school students, helping them build up their first profile, showcase themselves in a way that accentuates their extracurricular activities in particular, connect them to opportunities, mostly scholarships and colleges, and then all of this happens

within a positive and supportive community. And over time, we've grown with our members into the college and young professional space. Our whole goal is to level the playing field and maximize the potential of as many people. people as possible. So it's been compared to LinkedIn. Is that a fair comparison? I think there are similarities. However, we're really focused on our part, which is this next generation, starting as early as 16, and guiding them through, almost shirphing them through the future of earning and learning and those opportunities. I think there are various features that we have that they don't, and we're really focused from a user experience perspective. And then from a community perspective,

it's very different. Post that you would see on LinkedIn just don't work here. You wouldn't find, students talking about being on the chess team, being on the robotics team, being on etc., etc., on Goodwall. I mean, if you are, let's say, 18 years old and you're interested in applying to college, what does it look like? You go to Goodwall, you create a profile for yourself, and then what? Yeah, you go on to Goodwall, you create a profile for yourself. Our initial early adopters were mostly international school students who maybe didn't have as

much guidance as others or students based out of the U.S. who maybe didn't have as much guidance from their parents or from college counselors, they'd come on here, see what other people are doing. They would be matched with colleges and universities and also with scholarships based on their data and their profiles. And then they'd be able to connect with like-minded youth. So, for example, we had this girl based out of Jordan who was really into robotics and science. And unfortunately, there's no one really around her who had those similar interests.

And she was able to find others like her in the U.S., connected. intern at NASA, did incredible things afterwards. Actually, many of our students have gone and found exclusive opportunities at universities like Oxford and others that we've partnered with. And it's super fulfilling from that perspective. Yeah, it's really cool. I was checking it out last night. And it's a little bit like if you didn't have a mentor or a guidance counselor,

like, here you go. Yeah, definitely. I think a lot of our early adopters were privileged in the sense that they had a lot of ambition and maybe they went to good schools. But over time, especially over the last year, we've really put a lot of effort and a lot of energy towards helping youth who are maybe a little underprivileged. And that privilege is actually not necessarily 100% linked to financial situation, but it can be. For example, what we're doing now with UNICEF and other organizations in Africa, for example, is we're running programs there and we're really helping youth, bring out their ideas, build up their confidence, show who they are and connect to opportunities. And it's been really, really fulfilling.

and we expect to do more underrepresented communities in the U.S., for example. We're doing more and more there. And that's where the biggest room for impact is. At the end of the day, we are a social enterprise, and it's very fulfilling to help youth who go to elite schools and connect them to elite universities and colleges. But it's even more fulfilling and even more important for us to step in where the, I'd say the impact delta is the biggest, for example,

youth in Africa who in certain African countries that just don't have any exposure, don't have opportunity, don't have that guidance, but do have access to a phone. and can as a result go through it. So we're really trying to do more there in particular. I know you started this company in 2014 with your brother. Where did the idea come from? Yeah, so it was my brother's idea.

Both of us were born in Switzerland. We lived in Pakistan, Iran, the U.S., came back to Switzerland. Our parents used to work in the humanitarian sector. So my father worked for or served refugees for around 30 years. And we experienced a lot growing up. It was quite a contradiction going skiing on the weekend in a very affluent or privileged little bubble in Switzerland, whereas at the same time we'd go on summer vacation and give candy out to refugee kids who were our age, 10, 11. And that really did shake us quite a bit. And throughout our upbringing, we realized that we are where we are.

I'm here not because I'm smart, but because I was lucky. I was born. I could have been born two doors down and that my life would have been very different. And I'm confident because of the experiences I had rather than because I'm innately able to do so. And that's really what pushed us to say, you know, we were lucky in this sense. what would happen if we were able to give those opportunities in terms of particularly experiences? So education is one thing, or traditional education is one thing, but particularly experiences to millions of youth around the world. What would happen? How could we change things? And that's where we thought, okay, it has to be mobile first, or it has to be a digital solution, and it has to be able to tackle millions. And we wanted to go a step further. We said it's good to maximize one's

potential, but hopefully we can do that in a way, and we're very idealistic in that sense, in a way that it maximizes or improves society as well. or impact society positively, which is our mission statement, that if we have enough people that are exposed to not only improving themselves, but so often it's a form of education, knowing what's out there. If I hadn't gone to those refugee camps or if I didn't have the background where my parents are originally from Sri Lanka, would I really be so inclined to have this positive impact? Who knows? But I did have that chance. And I view that as an opportunity. So if we can give those opportunities and showcase through volunteering, through being aware, through connecting to people from different backgrounds, you know, hopefully we can move the

world forward. I think it's needed now more than ever, right? Yeah, for sure. Tile, let's talk, let's talk business for a second. I think you've got around 50 employees around the world. You've got offices in, obviously, Switzerland, the U.S., Germany, Serbia, the Philippines. I mean, you're growing. You've got presumably some cash runway. But these are tough economic times. I mean, LinkedIn just laid off 1,000 people. There are record numbers of people in the U.S. filing for unemployment. So first of all, how has your revenue been in your business been impacted by the global economic slowdown. Yeah, I mean, when it happened, I think the first week where we started notice it was getting really serious. I remember it. The first thing we did was we had a board meeting

and we talked about, okay, what's our cash situation and let's make sure we get through this, however long that may be, while maintaining the team for two reasons. One is like you don't want to be on that downward death spiral, but also because we have, you know, the opportunity to have real impact in this time if we make the changes and adapt effectively, but we won't be able to do so if we don't have the team to do it. So we've actually hired over the past few months. And we've actually grown over the past few months. And we've adapted to do so.

But the first week was really about scenario planning and getting through that. After that, we assume the worst. But we ourselves decided, well, there's definitely going to be less demand for recruitment. There's definitely less hires, which hurts us, which hurts our users or our members. And we said, okay, how can we help? Because if they come on and they're no jobs, well, it's a, it's a very bad experience. But it's also, it's hurting us. So what we did was we put together this program.

better together and other challenges where youth can really develop work experience. At the end of it, they get certificates that show that they've accomplished these different challenges, participated in it, and at the end, it can be used as work experience towards all of our partner companies. So it's actually giving them something to do, some hope. And at the same time, this is generating revenue for us. There's one example of generating revenue for us. Another example is just before the crisis, part of our model is we work with large partners. And a couple of these large partnerships, So, you know, like leading recruitment and leading education groups stopped or came to a halt. And then I don't know if this is despite COVID or because of COVID, other opportunities came about.

We've now partnered over the course of COVID with market leaders in markets that we are not present in or we're very marginally present in. And it's actually allowing us to take up extra market share and grow in a more significant way September onwards. Yeah. Let me ask you about the demographic that you target, right? I mean, and I'm going to use this term, Gen Z, which I always cringe when I say it, because I remember, like, when I was in my 20s and people talked about Gen X and their slackers, and I would just cringe and just hear older people talk about Gen Xers, and I was like, what are you talking about? But just to make this kind of simple, we'll just say Gen Z. So if you're Gen Z, I'm sorry, it's annoying, I know. This is a really challenging economic moment. If you are in high school now and you're going into college or if you're in college, there's a pretty good chance you're going to graduate into a world with very few jobs.

You know, a world that we haven't seen certainly since 2008, 9 and 10, but maybe far, far more challenging than that. What's your sense? I mean, what do you think? I mean, do you think that's actually true that is likely to be the case for the next three, four, five years or more? Yeah, I think whether or not we go through a deep recession with mass unemployment, particularly for the youth, or the next three, four, five years, it's a very probable that youth, at least in the short run, are to suffer. They're normally the last to be hired, the first to be fired. And that's justified for various reasons, including ethical. Oh, they have less commitments than,

for example, someone with a few kids. But it is incredibly difficult. And the mental toil of, let's say, an 18-year-old who doesn't know what's coming up next, we need to be able to be resilient. and we need to be able to learn how to learn and adapt because we just don't know what's going to happen. So there could be a second downturn, there could be a third downturn, it could be sustained downturns. And us across society, but in particular for the youth,

we have an opportunity, they have an opportunity to take this and say, okay, it doesn't kill me, it might make me stronger. And I can learn from this and develop that resilience that five, six, ten years from now I'm able to deal with the next crisis in a more, in a stronger way, because I'm going to have to do that. Some of the skills that need to be developed, in my opinion, are entrepreneurial thinking,

that ability to be flexible and resilient. We need to do more, though. Beyond just these massive stimulus packages and the government is trying to do whatever they can, for sure this generation needs, the government needs to intervene to be able to, or organizations need to be able to intervene to support them to the best of their abilities in terms of developing these skills and being able to be resilient. When we come back in just a moment, I'll talk with Taha about college graduates, who will probably face a shrinking job market over the next few years.

Stay with us. I'm Guy Raz, and you're listening to How I Built This Resilience Edition from NPR. Hey, welcome back to how I built this resilience edition. Despite the economic slowdown, Taha and his company Goodwall have been able to grow their team and stay afloat. But as jobs are drying up across the globe, many college graduates are looking for opportunities and can't find any. If you're like in your early 20s now and you're looking for an opportunity and you can't find one, what would you recommend a young person do who's graduating college or is just entering the workforce and is kind of trying out different potential career paths? I mean, is it a good time to just steer clear the workforce for a while and get some more education, which in the U.S. means more debt? What do you think? Yeah, I think definitely trying is important.

might just be an opportunity to start your own thing. You know, a lot of great companies came out of the last crisis because they just couldn't find jobs or that opportunity just wasn't there for a year. So maybe start one's own thing. It's never been easier to start a business. It's never been easier to try something new. So even if it doesn't work, that's incredible work experience. You know, when we talk to CHROs of some of the leading companies in the world, what are they looking for? Or what were they looking for before the crisis and definitely after is that ability to be entrepreneurial, even if you're working for a Fortune 500. So, it can't hurt. Best case scenario, you build something amazing. Worst case scenario, you fail and you

take those skills and you leverage those skills and you keep your mind active. It's so important from a mental health perspective. Keep your mind active and then apply them when the market comes back, which it will at one point. Another opportunity, if maybe starting yourself isn't it, join some friends or join or reach out to small startups. Definitely, volunteer is an opportunity. There are a lot of NGOs, there are a lot of nonprofits that need help or need support right now. build up your work experience, gain some experience like concrete, tangible work experience that differentiates you further, rather than just having eight, 12 months in your resume, which are empty. Unfortunately, it might not help on the financial side. And that's where one has to be creative.

And it's just really tough. And that's where what is the government intervention on that front need to be, because there's some that just can't afford to do what I just said, which is volunteer or build your own company because they don't have that safety net. They don't have that opportunity in. And unfortunately, there, we're almost out of ideas because, okay, you go back to college, you just talked about extra debt, but for some, unfortunately, they're going to have to do it. And that leads to a more, a more philosophical discussion on why is there so much debt attached to a college education, where, you know, in Switzerland, for example, I paid for my undergraduate, I paid around $1,000 a year. It's a leading education. I mean, it's like, you know, one of the top universities. And so,

you know, that's, that's another discussion. Yeah. You know, I agree with you. I think that this is a moment to be entrepreneurial. And it's challenging because you're right. I mean, not everybody can do that. From an employer's perspective, you mentioned human resource officers. And by the way, you're right. I mean, a human resource officer is very attracted to an applicant who started a business or tried to start up and it failed. You know, it's because as you say, that's incredible life and work experience. What are some of the characteristics and sort of ways that, quote unquote, Gen Z works that might be different from previous generations. Maybe their expectations, for example. Yeah, it's something that comes up quite often. The expectations are huge. I think even if we look

at the generation before, part of it is there needs to be, and there always has been this need for grit, for determination. I think post-COVID, we're going to have very likely an incredibly resilient and determined generation. I think it's really great for, I mean, it's very tough. A lot are going to suffer, and I hope it will be as few as possible. But coming out of this, generally, on the whole, there's good reason to believe that this generation is going to be really conscious, a bit like after World War II, really conscious of financials, very conscious of how lucky they are, how privilege, how quickly things can change, how precarious the society within which we live is, actually. It's a disease that, yes, it's serious, but it could have been a lot worse. It could have been

10x worse. It could have been 100x worse. And it's brought our global economy to its needs. And we feel like we're often the masters of the universe. And that's not just Gen Z, but across demographics. And we clearly aren't. And I think a little bit of humility goes a long way. I mean, I love the energy of younger people coming in because their ideas are just so radically different from the way people in my business have seen their profession. What is your advice for employers looking to harness the intellectual power of Gen Z? Yeah, no, it's a really good question. There are basics of management that have been the same for every demographic and every niche within that demographic. It's look at maximizing the potential of the particular individual,

right? So different people react differently to different forms of management. You know, within this, we can talk about trends, but the ability to give them that chance to express themselves. The need for trust, it's always been there. Now definitely so. I mean, even more so, because they know what they're capable of. But then also must not forget, they are still with very few years of experience and being able to be there to give feedback, to tell them what they're doing right, tell them what they're doing wrong. Both sides is critical. So just leaving someone out there in the wilderness is not going to necessarily need to great results either. But giving that safe space, giving that trust and creating an environment of being, okay, I'm here to maximize

your potential. And the order, the direct order may have worked or they may have been able to get away with it in the past. But, you know, there's some people that might still be okay with it. But generally speaking, that's especially for youth with a lot of potential, that's just not conducive for maximizing their potential. Where do you see your business and what you're doing in five years from now? What do you want it to look like? Yeah, I think for us, it's always been about really helping as many youth as possible, be as inclusive as we can. And so we're already serving youth in 150 countries. We'd like to go deeper in certain areas through our partnerships or alone.

Serve more youth in a more significant way. provide more opportunities, just really the best experience. That's probably what's most important. I think that's where we can make our contribution towards society. That's what we're good at. And now it's just about going to that next level. Yes, it's a challenging period, but we're going to be okay. We're going to get out of this. And then it's about, okay, really taking this opportunity and doing the best we can because we are in a privileged situation. If we were, if we were unlucky, which has been the case for many other startups, you know, I have friends who had term sheets for massive rounds of financing, just evaporates. and we hear the stories. And then they're just unlucky.

So we're in this lucky position to be able to operate and to be able to do what we're doing. Let's make the most out of it. And I think that's our, that's kind of our duty. And I think that's, yeah. Taha Bawa, co-founder of Goodwall, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you.

That's an excerpt for my conversation with Taha Bawa, co-founder of Goodwall. To see our full interview, you can go to facebook.com slash how I built this. And if you want to see all of our past live interviews, you can find them there or at YouTube.com slash NPR. And if you want to find out more about the How I Built This Resilience series

or other virtual NPR events, you can go to nprpresents.org. This episode was produced by Candace Limb, with help from Will Mitchell, Tyra Lockhart, Matt Adams, Ali Prescott, Gianna Cappadona, John Isabella, Julia Carney, Neva Grant, and Jeff Rogers. Thanks for listening. Stay safe, and I'll see you back here in a few days. I'm Guy Raz, and you've been listening to How I Built This for me. and PR.