How I Built This with Guy Raz - The art of letting go with Vincent and Andrew Kitirattragarn of Dang Foods

Episode Date: November 2, 2023

How does a brand live on after its founders leave the company – especially one that was inspired by their family and their culture? That’s the question Vincent and Andrew Kitirattragarn have had to answer since their original appearance on How I Built This in January 2022. This week on How I Built This Lab, Vincent and Andrew share their aspirations for Dang Foods after a difficult and heartfelt departure. Plus, how they navigated changes in consumer demand post-pandemic and the resources that helped buoy their mental health in the face of consequential entrepreneurial decisions.This episode was produced by Carla Esteves with music by Ramtin Arablouei.It was edited by John Isabella with research by Carla Esteves. Our audio engineer was Neal Rauch.This episode is brought to you in part by Canva, the easy-to-use online design platform for presentations, social posts, videos, websites, and more. Start designing today at Canva – the home for every brand.You can follow HIBT on X & Instagram, and email us at [e-mail] Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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you guys are the best. Hello everyone and welcome to How I Built This Lab. I'm Guy Raz. So as you all know, how I built this is a show that celebrates mistakes. In fact, I think of this show as a kind of a yellow page, as a directory of mistakes.

And the idea is that by listening to the amazing stories of founders and some of the mistakes they made along the way, you can learn how to avoid them yourself. Well, back in January, 2022, we did an episode on a brand called Dang Foods.

It was started by two brothers, Vincent and Andrew Kitteratrigarn. And if you haven't heard it, it's worth your time. You can scroll back in the podcast queue to find it or just search Dang Foods in your podcast app. Anyway, Vincent and Andrew have family roots in Thailand and they want to bring Asian-inspired snacks to grocery stores. They built Dang into a pretty impressive brand to a point where you could find their rice crackers and energy bars

and coconut chips at Whole Foods and Target and Walmart. But unfortunately, the business ran into trouble, and a lot of it had to do with the pandemic. The brothers were faced with a series of difficult choices, try to sell it, try to save it, or declare bankruptcy. Both Vincent and Andrew agreed to come back onto the show to talk about what happened and why. It was a really courageous thing to do. Most of us don't like talking about failure or setbacks. But when we do, we can help ourselves and help others understand the value and lessons of those setbacks. When the pandemic hit, Vincent and Andrew had to navigate huge changes in consumer demand, and then a global supply chain crisis.

I remember thinking with Andrew, like, we really came to the conclusion that it was an essential crisis for the business. Yeah. Because two of our three product lines are imported from Thailand. And so when your cost of goods, the freight goes from 5% to 30%. That's a big increase. Wow. And what, I mean, and this was all COVID-related? It was just the backlog of shipping.

Is that how it was explained to you? My understanding it was a supply and demand issue. So people were staying at home and they wanted to buy stuff for their house. And so demand for imported goods increased dramatically. And there wasn't enough containers to go around. I remember when we had you on the show, and everybody should listen. This should go back and listen to it because it is an awesome story about how you guys started this company and you guys were cooking and kitchens. Anyway, even when you were on the show, you were not a massive company, but you had managed to create a pretty significant brand. If you went into any whole foods, you would see dang, you would see that label on coconut chips and on rice. crackers, and you still do in many Whole Foods. But at the time we spoke, there were challenges. You were not just the shipping challenges, but you guys started to see some challenges with the

business. What was happening at the time? Yeah, so going back to 2019, I remember we had just launched our Dang Bar. It was a keto bar with Asian flavors and ingredients. And we had launched it with Whole Foods in 2019. The first full year. It was great. It became our number one product line really quickly. And keto, just to be clear, that was a smart move. I mean, this is a hot, it's not even a trend. I mean, it's a hot diet, right? I mean, you've got bulletproof this and all these different brands that are doing keto. So this seemed like a probably like a no-brainer. At the time, there were no keto bars on the market where like, wow, this is such a big opportunity.

So we race to develop it and partnered with Whole Foods to launch it nationwide. And it did great. It was going to be our driver of growth in 2020 and beyond. But when COVID hit and people were sheltering in place, they stopped buying energy bars as much because it's a good on-the-go snack. And when you're staying at home, you just don't buy bars as much. So that line took a hit pretty immediately. But was there an initial surge? I mean, I know it was like Cliff Bar, for example, they were flying off the shelf.

when COVID hit because people are stockpiling food. So was there an initial spike? There was a small initial spike as people were panic buying. But, you know, as people settled into their new routines of staying at home and not going out to shop at grocery stores, we did see a huge impact on all of our products. Because you were doing coconut chips, which you had a few flavors, rice crackers, and you had a few flavors. And the energy bar showed incredible promise in 2019. It seemed like there was a world where that could dominate your sales in the future.

That was the plan, right. And so with the energy bar market being as big as it was, we're like, hey, you know, we created this nice niche. We should continue growing it. And so it was kind of heartbreaking to, you know, face reality when COVID hit. and notice that it's not going to grow into what we had hoped. And so that was just the first kind of multiple waves of challenges, I would say, the immediate impacts of COVID on purchasing habits of snacks and bars.

And then the second wave was this supply chain crisis that caused huge spikes in container prices. So all right, so all of a sudden, Andrew, freight cost. skyrocket. The cost to ship your goods dramatically increase. So, I mean, presumably you had to raise prices, right? We did raise prices. There's just so much that you can raise. So with the container prices going up from 5K to 22K in one month, you can't increase your price on shelf by 400%. Yeah. You just can't do it.

Like it's just you just need a stomach through it. So let me just acknowledge. I know that this is still recent what has happened today. And I really appreciate you guys coming on to talk about it. I think it's really courageous. And I think it's also important because as you know, this show is about, you know, it's designed to be free business school master class for. for anybody who wants to start a business or is thinking about it or is just inspired by it. And

you guys built an inspiring business and brand. You know, and it's a great story of how you did it. But of course, great businesses. I mean, even ones that we've had on the show don't always make it for a variety of reasons. COVID was, you know, a black swan event and had a huge impact on your business. I mean, you had to really cut cost, right, to just just to stay in business, just to make sure that you could survive because you could only raise prices a certain amount before people would stop buying your product. But in order to stay alive, you had to probably do things like cut back on expenses, I gather. Guy, it was a matter of survival, right? And it was definitely one of the hardest things we had to do. the cuts to the marketing and the spend were easier. The layoffs were a lot harder.

And we needed to do it because we didn't have control in the near future over the revenue side. Yeah, when you, you know, when you're not profitable and not growing, it's tough. I mean, the only options are to fundraise, right, or look for acquirers. So, you know, we look for fundraising, but it wasn't coming. and we had to pivot to look for people to, people would be interested in merging us with another business or acquiring the business. So I guess around March of 2022, you really started to look at your options with a sort of a more urgent lens, right? So one option would be, can we find investors? So you, and did you guys go out and see if you could raise money?

Yeah, we went to, I want to say, five or six dozen potential investors. Wow. And spoke to them about, you know, the situation that we were in, that it was a, you know, that cost that skyrocketed and that we thought it was going to be a short-term thing. And that cost would come back down and then we would end up being more profitable. But it's tough to fundraise when you're not growing and not profitable. And, yeah, it wasn't an easy sell. Yeah. That must have been hard.

That must have been really hard to do that, to really go from place to place and hear or no or thank you or we'll get back to you. Guy, it was extremely hard. I remember talking with Vincent and we were discussing whether or not. We wanted to approach our friends and like our colleagues about potentially putting in some money. And I told Vincent that I didn't want to go to my friends to do that. Like I felt like the market was telling me something and I felt like it would be misleading in my heart to ask them to put in more money when I maybe started to not believe. Yeah, I bet. And so when that didn't work, one other option is, of course, could you sell?

Could you find a buyer for the company? And what did you guys try to do? Yeah, we collectively got together with their board at meetings and came out with a list of people that we're going to go after and who's going to talk to them. You know, brands and or, you know, organizations that would be interested in acquiring us. But the idea is that, you know, we might not make sense as. a standalone entity, but it does make sense as an add-on. We spent 10 years building this brand that people understand and know and go back and look for.

And, you know, if you already have a group that's operating a business, you can tack this on to it. And, you know, we had talked with probably another close to 100 brands. Wow. And a lot of them, you know, were interested. Some of them were worried about supply chain issues. And we actually ended up, you know, getting an offer. some offers from, interestingly, these, do you remember the kind of SPAC craze?

Oh, yes. There is like a whole craze of, you know, these public companies that would basically entities that would go public and then look for an acquisition later on. And so there were quite a few of these in our space and we talked with them. But in looking closely at those businesses, we were, it just didn't feel like a right fit. Yeah. And nothing ended up making it past the finish line. And you guys, what was your objective? I mean, you could have just wound down the business and, you know, declared bankruptcy. There's lots of things you could have done. I mean, you had raised money. I think you'd raised, I think about $10 million. But was your objective to at least try to get some money back to the original investors? Yeah, so the, you know, we had raised a little above 10 million, and the goal was, you know, to try to make them whole or have that equity roll over into another entity.

But, you know, ultimately, it's very tough to, I think, align incentives during mergers and these types of acquisitions. And so nothing really fit the bill. I think part of that, too, is, like, we wanted this thing to live on. Like somebody else take it and like keep going with what we made. It doesn't have to be huge, but just keep going with it. You know, we spent this 10 years building this. It's named after our mom. It's very personal to us.

Yeah. And to see it disappear, I mean, you know, it felt to me like it would be like almost the lost of a loved one. Like there was a definite grieving process when it came down to letting something like this go. We're going to take a quick break, but when we come to. back, how a chance encounter at a holiday party reinvigorated Vincent to get back into the business of, well, building a business. Stay with us, I'm Guy Raz, and you're listening to how I built this lab. If you're an entrepreneur growing your business, then you've probably

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NetSuite.com slash built. Hello and welcome back to how I built this lab. I'm Guy Raz. And my guest today are the first. founders of the Asian-inspired snack food brand, Dang Foods. So I guess you guys did decide in the summer of 2022 to do the wind-down option, right? What did that mean? What did that mean you were going to do?

Andrew? What we decided to do is, with the board's permission, we stopped ordering inventory because we didn't see a path forward and that the supply chain at that time was not being alleviated. So we decided that we were going to sell off our assets and have this time to try to sell the company while we sell off the inventory for nine months and ultimately return them on whatever cash is left to the creditors. And how much inventory did you guys have at that time in the U.S.? The thing about that Vincent didn't mention is not only were the freight rates up, but the average time in port also spiked during that time.

from 50 days to 100 days or seven weeks to 14 weeks. Wow. Just because there wasn't enough manpower to move it out quickly. Yes. So it flowed. It didn't flowed, but in parts of 2021, we were really, really short. And then because we had to over order it towards the end of that, we started getting a huge surplus. Right.

So by the beginning of 2022, we had like nine months. and we had a bunch of cash sitting in coconut chips and rice chips at our warehouse. I cannot imagine how difficult this time was. I'm sure it's still even raw now talking about it, you know, in late 2023. But how are you guys coping with it, you know, just personally, emotionally, you know, having to, for a variety of reasons, mainly because of. of the circumstances of the global pandemic having to wind down this brand and business that you'd worked on for over 10 years at that point. Yeah, I felt like I lost purpose.

I felt like I lost a loved one. I felt like I let my team down. I remember going to the park and crying. And then I also remember telling when I have to tell the team this, like just breaking down. I couldn't hold it together. and just crying as well. So for me, there were a lot of feelings of loss and grief. Yeah.

As if it were, you know, a part of my family. Andrew, how about for you? Guy, I think this is why my brother and I were such a good team. It's because we're so different. I felt a huge sense of relief, huge. And one of the reasons why is because, I felt like in the months leading up to the decision, including even on your show last time we were there, we had to wear somewhat of a mask in front of the public, in front of employees, in front of creditors, our friends and family. And in making this decision, I felt like we could start to take that mask off.

Yeah. And that you could start to move to the next chapter in your life, maybe. I'm wondering, Vincent, back to you, I'm feeling that sadness for sure. And I really empathize with that. And I wonder how you, what helped you just emotionally cope with it? how, what was helpful during that time? It was about, I'd say a three-month depression or depressed period. And I sought out of therapist during that time just to talk through these issues.

I had a support group of other entrepreneurs and, you know, they were able to lend some perspective on lows that they had went through as well. But I also leaned on Andrew. I mean, Andrew was my rock during that time. And he really helped, you know, keep things together and keep, and keep things together and keep a really positive perspective, you know, it kept reminding me that like, hey, this is just chapter one, you know, we learn so much from this, and we're just going to put our learnings to work to us in the next chapter. And, you know, hearing things like that would keep me motivated.

Yeah. I've been going to therapy for like 10 years. It's like, I've had much more time to process my feelings along the way, I think, than Vincent did. And that's why, I think that's why, emotionally, I think I was more ready. And I wasn't as swayed. And maybe I should have been. Maybe that's more human of Vincent. Like maybe I should have been like that. Maybe there's something missing.

But I did emotionally feel prepared. I guess in the midst of this, Vincent, you had heard of an opportunity. And it was with a small brand that was working on or making and selling direct-to-consumer frozen soup dumplings, Chinese soup dumplings, and you connected with them and basically started working with them. Yeah, so I sometimes get investment opportunities sent to me, and I usually don't pay them much of mine, but one really caught my eye,

which was there's a restaurant in Seattle that had to shut down during COVID, and they lost almost all their revenue, and they pivoted to shipping frozen soup dumplings locally. And when word got out, you know, they got demand from other cities and started expanding to other cities. At the time, it was XEJ and now it's Mila. The name of the company is Mila. Mila, yeah. And when I studied abroad in Shanghai in college, you know, I had soup dumplings there. And when I tried these, I thought they tasted authentic, like exactly like I had in China. Yeah. And, you know, it was a unique product because, you know, it was, it came frozen raw and you had to steam it at home.

But the result is a restaurant quality dumpling. And I was just, I was, I had to get involved. So I actually wrote a check and invested in the company back in 2021. And then towards the middle of 2022, I got an update from the founders that, hey, you know, we're doing really well. we grew 500 percent. And next we're looking at going into retail. And so I connected with them about the retail piece because I had been doing that for the last 10 years. And I joined them at the end of 2022.

Wow. And up until the end of 2022, the idea was you would wind down the brand and sell the assets and then return as much as you could to the creditors. and that would be it. That would be the end of dang. That was basically where you guys were headed. Yes, from a very, from a paper perspective that made sense to set like the what you're describing makes sense. And Vincent and I also just wanted the brand to live on. So we say assets, but we were really selling the brand and everything so that that could live on with somebody else. So you were looking for somebody to take on the brand name. Yes. And maybe they could continue it.

But so far up until, you know, that time, you had no luck. You could not find anybody. Correct. But I guess eventually you did. Vincent, you met somebody at a party who just happened to be. Tell me the story. Yeah. So I went to a holiday party in December 2020.

And it was an 80s theme party. And so I was wearing an Adidas track suit. with, you know, a boombox in the style of Run DMC. And I saw someone else who had a similar outfit, also wearing an Adidas track suit. And so he started talking. We got around to, hey, what do we do? And I told them about dang.

And, you know, I told them, oh, you know, we're winding it down. And he said, don't wind it down. Like, it's a great brand. You know, maybe we'll buy it. And he happened to be the founder of Safecatch, which imports seafood from Thailand. And so the more we started talking, we're like, okay, this could work. He already imports products from Thailand.

He has a team over there. He knows our brand. He knows our customers. You know, let's flesh this out. So this company, essentially that you, this guy that you met at the party who's had a whole operation in Thailand, he took over the brand. He's now taken over the brand in the label. How are you able to work all that out? It ended up working out where he took over the operations, he bought the assets, and he's able to keep the brand going.

So I worked with him on retaining as much customer distribution as possible. So I had to call it Whole Foods and let him know what was happening and let him know, hey, there's going to be a gap in inventory, but we'll be back. And luckily, they were very, very cooperative and very, very, you know, generous about holding our space. And so Dang is still operating as the same, more or less the same brand with the same products, just now owned by somebody else. We're still on shelves at Whole Foods. We're still at Amazon. We have calls with them and advise them on customers and new products and even hires. And yeah, they're continuing to operate it. So I'm glad that our product, at least, is still available for those people that really. love it. And I'm really proud that, you know, we're still around. Yeah. And our baby faces and our signatures are still in the back of the packaging. And Vinnie, we should, you and I should have a discussion afterwards about the legality of that, but we could talk about that later.

We're going to take a quick break, but when we come back, more on the future of dang foods, and what's next for Andrew and Vincent. Stay with us. You're listening to How I Built This Lab. Hey, welcome back to How I Built This Lab. I'm Guy Raz. Here's more of my conversation with Vincent and Andrew Kicharachargarne of Dang Foods. It's interesting, Andrew. Obviously, Vincent is now fully in, you know, two feet in with Mila, trying to turn that into a bigger brand. And Andrew, from what I gather, you are doing some consulting work, helping, you know, particularly helping other startups that need to wind down their businesses for a variety of reasons, kind of helping walk them through that process. Yeah, it's interesting because when Vinnie asked me to join, Dang, I didn't have any food and beverage CPG experience.

I just did it because it was a cool opportunity. I'm trying to help my brother, and it was going to be cool to do something together. Yeah. Like, it could have been any industry that did better for the world. It could have been any industry. So I did a lot of thinking when I was there in my final years of dang. I was like, oh, like, I don't know if this is my industry. This is where my passion is.

I'm just helping out my brother because he needs the help, and this is fun. And something happened the day in April that we made that decision to wind down. And it was a really tough day for Vincent, and it was a tough day when we had to tell the employees what was going on. and when I had to call the creditors, that was all tough. But I did feel all of a sudden rejuvenated and really engaged because I really wanted to tell people what was going on. And I really wanted to let him know what our plan was and ideally give our employees some severance

or give them a little package to stay with us or tell the investors who we hadn't been keeping in the loop what was going on. Let the creditors know that it's a tough situation that they might not get their money back, but we're trying everything we can. And hopefully in nine months we'll be able to give them back something. Yeah. I really liked being on the hot spot and doing it. And I don't know if it's a passion, but it's something that's engaging during this process.

And basically, I mean, you can take your experience and help people kind of navigate it. because I'm sure it's, for many people, it's traumatic. It's traumatic. Yeah. And it's traumatic. And I mean, I was, there's a couple of things that have to come to mind here. Vinnie, I remember when we were having a hard time in 2021, 2022. I was like, Vinnie, if we call this the dang foods company, it's going to be harder for us to make these decisions, especially as a fiduciary to the board.

So I want to call this the ABC company when things are going hard. I don't want to call this the Deng Foods Company, which was named after our mother. And I think others need help with that guidance. And remember, Vincent was the one to really create this. He was the real creator in this, and I came in to help scale it. And so what I learned from this and what I want to tell other people, too, is that I Dang Foods company, the entity, failed. We are not failures.

No question about it. I mean, here's a thing, right? Like how I built this as a show about brands and how they were built. And obviously, it's a show about successful brands. But failure is, I mean, it's a tricky word, right? Because it feels deflating. But it can also be immensely valuable, incredibly valuable as a tool to help. help you prepare for the next journey, right? And so, Vincent, I mean, I can't imagine how much

you learned. What, tell me, can you talk about some of the things that you've brought with you to your new company that, I don't know, let's start with the things that you did right. What are some of the things you did right at dang that worked and that you will continue to do? I would say, you know, focusing on the product at the very beginning is, is the most important. So making sure that you really understand your product and why people are buying it and who's buying it and when are they consuming it. And this is all kind of goes under this guise of product market fit. I think that's super important. And I think that's something that, you know, founders need to be obsessive about at the beginning because your success is ultimately going to depend on how much product market fit you have.

So I would say that's the number one thing. And then I think making sure that as a company, you're set up for that success. So now after 10 years, we understand that it's not just having a good product, but you actually have the operations team. You've got to have the finance team. You've got to have marketing team to really back it up. And so if you have one part that's working, but one part that isn't, it's not really going to add up. up. And so how about to you, Andrew? What are some of the things that you, you guys did well at Dang that you'll continue to kind of use, you know, in your sort of professional career? There's a concept that we labeled disagree and commit. So I felt like Vince and I were pretty aligned for most things. And there were certain things where we weren't aligned. And,

I think we fought pretty hard. One of them being the energy bars, the dang bars, that we launched in 2019. And ultimately it came time to make the decision. And Vincent was like, all right, I'm going to do this. We're going to do this. And this is why. And I know you're concerned, but just like trust me. And I did that.

And so the disagreement commitments, the disagreement happens behind closed doors. and then we come out on the other side, we're aligned publicly, and we move on, and you keep going like that with your partner. That's something I will take to the future. And what about things that you didn't quite do right, that now reflecting on it, you wouldn't do that again? I'd say spending too much on marketing or on demos too early. when you're really focused, should be focused on product market fit and that you have a really good core line in understanding what the consumers need and want and continuing to tinker without before spending that much money on marketing. I think that's a big lesson specifically for CPG. And did you, I mean, is that something that you guys probably spent too much on initially?

I think at the beginning we did things like go to consumer shows. there are these shows like Green Festival and Fit Expo, Women's Expo, that were meant to hit at a specific consumer. And we tried a lot of them without actually trying to pinpoint who the consumer was before that. I think we saw it as a way to spread, you know, word about the brand. But, you know, looking back, like, there were just too many different shows, too many different types of people. We should be more precise about who we're targeting. And then we ended up having to redesign our packaging multiple times because, you know, I think we were probably swayed at the time we had just raised some money. And so our investors had a perspective on, you know, what they thought we

were. But rather than dig down and say, okay, we are an Asian American snack company, you know, we kind of went in the direction of, oh, we're a healthy snack company. We're a natural food company, which to us wasn't differentiated when you really like picked it apart. You know, There's a lot of healthy snack companies, but what was unique to us is the fact that we're using, you know, an authentic recipe from Thai cuisine. And so leading into that later on was, it felt better and it felt more authentic to who we were. I will say that our family, or specifically our father, lent some money into the company. And it was not an immaterial amount. And he did get a payout.

with the creditors because he was a part of that class equal to everyone else but he was not made whole and I for a long time felt a lot of shame about that and Vincent I think you know we called him

and I remember him saying like it's cool I still love you guys and like I'm happy to have helped you have this experience with each other. Yeah, I mean, I think both of you guys are parents, right? I am. Yes. Yes. And so imagine if your child asked you for some help to start their business and didn't work out. Like, you'd still be super proud of them, right? Like, just think about your own kid. Yeah. I think,

you know, the fact that he, uh, I think he saw a lot of himself in what we were doing too. So he moved to the U.S. in 77 and started a candle business and he was importing candles from, from Thailand. Him and my mom also had a silk flower business. So, you know, we were, we actually grew up in those businesses and going to the trade shows. And so we learned a lot of the skills and the lingo from growing up around that. And the fact that we were doing a similar business model, but with coconut chips and rice chips, you know, I think he saw that, hey, he had influenced us.

And he was probably proud that he was able to influence us, you know, enough to start a business and have a run for 10 years. You know, obviously, Vincent, you're involved in this new company, and Andrew, you are doing consulting work. Do either of you imagine, with all that you've learned from dang, maybe starting something, either together or separately, starting something new again one day, a new business? I could definitely cease doing something. I don't think it would be in the exact same consumer product industry niche. So what I'm being. is that, you know, there's a lot of challenges with coming up with a consumer product, you know, bringing it to market, dealing with distribution and retailers. It's all the chips are stacked against you as a smaller player. And, you know, I don't think that it's, it's just not a, it's not a game that I want to play again necessarily. However, I think if you can find a niche or maybe a technological advantage, or be a part of the ecosystem in a different way, like, you know,

creating, say it's like AI for flavor innovation, something like that. Then I think that's super interesting because I can, you know, use what I've learned about this industry to my advantage and come at it with a different angle. But, I mean, as you guys say, I mean, the brand persists. And in 10, 15, 20 years time, even when you're far, far, removed from it, I mean, dang foods, dang products might be thriving. Yeah, I hope it's around until I'm no longer around. You know, it's nice to be able to walk around Whole Foods with my three-year-old and pick up a bag. And, you know, I think the baby picture on the back of being Andrew, I was about three years old, and Andrew was about one. And so when my daughter

sees that picture, she says, oh, that's me, because I look just like her. So, So it's pretty cool to be able to walk around and shower that. You know, it's cool to definitely see ourselves, or what we, what Vincent specifically created on shelf at Whole Foods, and it's still there. It might be there for the next 10 years might grow. There's another thing that I'm very proud of. There's a lot of other Asian-inspired brands now.

The names that I think of are Fly By Jing, Sanso, Om-Som. that I believe are following what we've done, and they're doing it with arguably a lot of authenticity in spreading Asian flavors, Asian culture from day one. And I'm really proud to see them doing really well in the space. And hopefully it leads to more Asian entrepreneurs in the future, taking a leap of faith.

Andrew Vincent, thank you so much. Thank you, guy. Thank you. I also want to say, us being able to be on your show is like one of the pinnacles of our time of day. Oh, thanks. That's so nice to hear.

Like, there's others that are like, oh, I think about the exit or I think about this, but yours is definitely up there if it's not like the number one thing that we look back on this experience. And we have like a freaking codified recording of like the highs and lows of all of it. And like what better honor to like share that with like millions of people

and for us to like have this with us for life. So I just, I personally want to thank you. That's Vincent and Andrew Kitturacharagarn, co-founders of Dang Foods. Hey, thanks so much for listening to How I Built This Lab this week. Please make sure to click the follow button on your podcast app so you never miss a new episode of the show. it's free. This episode was produced by Carla Estevez with editing by John Isabella. Our music was composed by Rumtin Eroblewe. Our audio engineer was Neil Rausch.

Our production team at How I Built This includes Alex Chung, Casey Herman, Chris Messini, J.C. Howard, Kerry Thompson, Malia Agudelo, and Sam Paulson. Neva Grant is our supervising editor. I'm Guy Raz, and you've been listening to How I Built This Lab.