How to Be a Better Human - How creating space for joy can build resilience (with Miracle Jones)
Episode Date: December 13, 2021With all the terrible things happening in the world lately, does the idea of maintaining a spark of joy in your day to day feel unrealistic? Or even inappropriate? Today’s guest, Miracle Jones, beli...eves that all the collective tragedy makes the role of joy in our routines even more crucial. She is a community organizer and queer activist who currently serves as the director of policy and advocacy at 1Hood Media. In today’s episode, Miracle meditates on the importance of joy as a catalyst for resilience, growth, and collective action, and shares how we can cultivate its practice even (and perhaps especially) in the darkest of times. You can learn more about Miracle’s work at 1hood.org. To learn more about "How to Be a Better Human," host Chris Duffy, or find footnotes and additional resources, please visit: go.ted.com/betterhuman Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
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You're listening to How to Be a Better Human.
I'm your host, Chris Duffy.
When I was growing up, my dad worked in the World Trade Center.
So that means that he was there for the bombing in 1993, and he just barely missed the last subway to make it
into the Twin Towers on September 11th. I remember in 1993 on the night of the bomb,
when my dad finally came home, he was standing in the doorway. His face was jet black with soot.
His suit was covered in ash. He looked so preposterous standing there. He looked like
a kind of overdressed chimney sweep.
And we burst into laughter as we ran in relief to hug him.
Years later, after I graduated college, I moved to Cambridge, Massachusetts, and I was
teaching fifth grade during the day and performing comedy at night.
And I was in Boston on the day of the marathon bombings.
And that night we sheltered in place as we heard sirens in the street and helicopters overhead.
It's probably the only time I've ever thought
that I was doing something brave
by eating an entire pot of spaghetti
while sitting on the floor in my underwear.
You know, as a comedian,
my first instinct is to want to make jokes about things.
But when terrible things happen in the world,
sometimes comedy feels irrelevant or even inappropriate.
Really, how can I go out and make jokes when there's blood on the ground?
Ignoring that kind of naked human suffering, it feels offensive.
To try and make people laugh, it feels wrong.
I'm not sure that words can ever really do justice to the horrors of violence or oppression
or a pandemic.
But I do think that one of the most important functions of art more broadly is to communicate
what we can't express otherwise.
And the more that I think about and live through acts of terror and moments of tragedy, the
more that I do think that laughter and joy in their wake, they aren't inappropriate.
They're actually necessary.
In response to those who would create fear and terror, joy can be a political act.
It's not about toxic positivity or ignoring the difficulties and challenges of life,
but instead finding that joy and pain, that those two things can exist at the same time.
And today's guest, Miracle Jones,
she is a community organizer who has done a lot of deep
thinking about exactly that. Here's a clip from her talk, and this is about the role of joy as a
form of radical resistance, survival, and protection for Black folks in the U.S. and across the world.
Here's that clip. Imagine feeling guilty just because you experience joy in your life. Many seem to forget that existing
and thriving in a world that was predicated upon your destruction is in itself a reason to celebrate. So we take up space as ours has been stolen and gentrified from us.
We dance in the middle of the street as we show up for each other
and remember our hope for the future. We celebrate together because we are a community of people bonded together in joy and pain
who refuse, refuse to leave each other.
We fight together because we have no other choice.
Okay, we are going to be back with more from Miracle Jones after this quick break.
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they've got everything you need to keep knocking down your goals.
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Just workouts and classes to strengthen who you are.
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And we are back. We're talking about joy with Miracle Jones.
Hi, my name is Miracle Jones. I'm the director of policy and advocacy here at One Hood Media,
and I'm so thankful to talk to you about finding joy today.
Why is joy important in your life?
as many dumpster fires as that's going on and as many negative things is happening it's reminded that there's still some positive good things in the world and there's still something to fight
for there's still something to like enjoy to take the moment and be thankful for and find gratitude
in and so for me joy is like so important because it took me a long time to be able to have it and to find it and to keep it
and to hold on to it. So I always try to make sure there's something that I can be happy about,
no matter what's going on. So I know I referenced it a little bit in my talk,
but when my dad went to jail, that really changed the trajectory of my whole family. We,
for lack of better words, were like homeless as a result of that. And
it took years to like rebuild and to be able to like have stable housing. And then as soon as we
got stable housing, I was diagnosed with an autoimmune disorder and spent like my whole
entire high school and the first two years of college, like really, really sick and out of hospitals. And so it took me a long time to be able to just be able to laugh and be able to enjoy life and
enjoy moments without pain and frustration. And so for me, I always try to make sure that I'm
taking time out of my day, of my week, no matter what's going on, just to laugh, to catch up with friends, to relax,
to find a movie that I've never watched before or find organizers that I've never worked with
before to build relationships to keep that joy flowing. It's interesting because I think that
sometimes people have this idea that joy is the opposite of pain or struggle, right?
That like you have to,
you can't have them both at the same time.
And I think something that's really interesting
about your talk and your work
is that you've really,
you kind of make the case that
you can be fighting to make the world a better place.
You can be going through really difficult things
in your personal life
and you still can have joy.
In fact, not only can you have it, but it's actually really important.
It is very important.
And again, a lot of times when you come out to some of the protests, you see people dancing,
you see people laughing, you see people hugging.
Some of the chants are about the freedoms in the future and there's envisioning sessions
because joy is a part of protest.
Joy is a part of protest. Joy is a part of pain.
You know, we don't live in these siloed lives where we pick either or other.
And it's so interesting that with joy, we try to like shame and guilt people for finding
happiness and silver linings of what's going on in the world and things that are beyond
our control.
But you have to have joy, no matter how minuscule it might be to you, because joy is how we are able to engage and strengthen and support each other. We can't get free and we can't move on to the next level if we don't have joy, because then you're just going to have a bunch of miserable, hurt people being forced together in closed spaces, and that creates trauma and drama. And so that's why joy and happiness
is infused into like revolutionary work.
It makes me think also of how so often
the strongest relationships,
whether they be friendships or romantic relationships
or even family relationships,
they're strong not because we've never
gone through something difficult together,
but precisely because that,
because we know that when things are hard, this person is there. Yeah. And a real friend knows how to like crack
jokes at that right time. You know, I remember being at my dad's funeral and we were laughing
and talking about different things that had happened because, you know, in that sadness,
we still found joy in the memories. We still found joy in community bonding and sharing our experiences.
I think a lot of times people conflate joy with toxic positivity, which is like,
I think it's like the meme where the person's like sitting, the dog is sitting in the house.
It's fine. Everything is fine. It's not fine. It's okay to say this is not fine. This is not okay.
It's okay to say this is not fine. This is not okay. But like, I'm going to maybe laugh today, instead of cry, I'm going to sit there and crack jokes, as I put this fire out or be mindful of what this next phase of my life could be. I'm not just going to remember the hard times or the sad times. I think that's what the difference is. A lot of times people try to like push like happiness and tea and, you know, crystals and meditation,
all this stuff, like pretend the world isn't a bad place. No, the world is a bad place. Like we're in it, we're living through it. And we have to face that reality. You can't pretend
that people are just these machines where they just go through negative
stuff and never take a moment for themselves to just be thankful for who they are and what
they've been through and to acknowledge that there is some type of good in this world.
You know, in comedy, we often say that comedy is tragedy plus time.
Yes.
And I feel like there's some truth to that, right?
Like often the funniest things are the things that are the most painful.
And then you look back on them and you go like, okay, well, there was something really,
and it's not to, it's never to say like that was okay at the moment.
It's just to say that we can laugh at the human experience of having this thing and
find joy in that, which I don't know what you're saying really resonates with me, that
idea.
this thing and find joy in that, which I don't know what you're saying really resonates with me,
that idea. But it's also a reality that sometimes you just need to tell a joke to get through the day or to tell a story or to share an experience because you do have to laugh to keep from crying
sometimes. But I'm not talking about avoiding what's going on in your life. I'm talking about
taking a moment, even in the darkest of times, to sit there and
say, I deserve to be happy. I deserve to be okay. I deserve to have a laugh. I deserve
to have peace of mind. I deserve it. And I'm a claimant and not feel guilty about it.
Is there a person in your personal life or could even be in the public sphere who's a model for you on how to practice that kind of joy? It's my siblings. My siblings and I, we are very fortunate that we have a close
relationship. So no matter what happens in the world, we can always crack jokes. We can always
fall back on each other when we're having a bad bad day. My siblings have been like my rock,
my strength, my crutch, no matter what I was going through, because we were going through
all this stuff together. Our experiences were, of course, were vastly different.
But I remember one time when I was going in for surgery, my brother was like, well,
if you die, I guess I get your ring collection. So it's a win for me either way.
It was just like, true, Right. It would, you know,
of course he was worried and stuff, but it's like,
I should just like doing it's like us doing jokes or remembering like the
positive and negative at the same time.
But that's just how we always go through and like show up for each other.
And we've always been able to do that, you know,
and that's kind of how like my worldview has always been since that time.
So I wonder, how do you deal with the tragic, broken parts of our society and the world
while not letting them define you?
I deal with it by keep going, going. I'm thinking of like the go-go protests in D.C.
when people were like, we don't want to hear this music.
We really do not want to see Black people in the middle of the streets. And you had, people had to
come together and organize and push back. And that's really how you deal with this broken system,
the systems of oppression, is that you build community relationships with other organizers,
other groups. So when things happen, you have a coalition of
people who come together to respond, to fight back, to strategize, to uplift and amplify
arguments and messaging. And that's, you know, in itself very amazing and happy to see when you do
a call to action and hundreds of people show up. But sometimes the reality is when you're organizing in those first few weeks,
it's maybe like five to 10 people who are showing up. Right.
And so that's finding joy in the fact that like people hear what's going on.
They care about making the change and they're using their time,
their bodies, their money, their finances,
and their whatever resources at their disposal to help you push and fight back.
I imagine that there's people who are listening to this who are thinking like,
I don't think of dealing with police violence. I don't think people associate with like,
well, that sounds joyful. So how do you incorporate joy into these really serious
topics that you deal with? One, you celebrate the wins. You
celebrate when things go right. And you share that information.
Like, yes, this is what we were looking for.
This is what we're fighting for.
Two, you balance the type of work that you do.
So for instance, there are projects that I'm working on
where I know the results won't happen
for another five to 10 years.
So trying to change systems and trying to get people
to think a different way about violence, I know that's not going to happen overnight. So I have
long-term projects. I also have short-term projects, things that I know I can get a result in
within days. And I also do direct outreach. So when you're able to talk to someone about different tools and resources that they didn't
need that were at their disposal, and you're able to have someone say, you're the first
time someone's talked to me like I've been a human being in weeks or months, that brings
joy, but it also brings sadness.
And it gives me strength to keep going on and keep fighting and keep forging ahead because
I know I'm making a difference. And even if I'm not going to be able to see the end results right now, or in my lifetime,
I know I'm laying the groundwork so other people are not going to have to go through the same pain
and struggles and hardships in the future. And so that's one of the ways that I look forward for, like future joy to sustain the work.
But some of the things I also do is try to turn my email notifications off at some point.
It's so hard, like stop working.
But to turn my email notifications off, we will now put in rest days on the calendar.
This is a day of rest, right?
This is a day where we're not going to work.
We're going to sit there and we're going to watch like films and documentaries of organizers who have won.
We're going to listen to elders.
We're going to read books of different organizers and we're going to get information and to
be motivated to continue on that type of way.
So there's different ways that you're able to connect joy and struggle
and revolution and organizing together to keep working and to do work that's really, really
tough and really, really heavy. I'd love to know what are some of the other little daily practices
that you keep up to keep these things moving in your life? I look at art a lot. I love art. You know, one of the organizations here at
Cadby, they just did a art show and the majority of the art were for people who've been incarcerated
and local Pennsylvania prison. So they submitted art and they released it. So that was pretty cool.
So I look at art. People laugh at me all the time when I tell them this but i am a sucker for like good romance
cheesy romance dramas like i love kdramas i love hallmark i love that this whole like
countdown to christmas thing it brings me so much happiness i know it's the cheesiest thing ever
but you know sometimes i'll look at the little trailers for the, when the movies come out, um, I'm going home for the fall holidays. So I've already told my sister, like Saturday night,
we're doing like two movies back to back. So pick the movies we've got to watch,
you know, making hot chocolate, but on a daily basis, you know, I listened to like interviews
with James Baldwin to Audre Lorde. I'm like, yes, they got it. They got it. And that
fills me. And then one thing I do at the end of the day, I tell myself like, what good thing
happened today? What bad thing happened today? And what thing can I work to change the next day?
So it's not like a good thing, a bad thing, a better thing, but it's like, just be reflective and then move on.
I've struggled still with this whole like remote life
to like cut my brain off from working,
but I am trying to do that like a lot more now
in addition to like creating my own artwork
and things of that nature.
I know that One Hood is very arts focused as an organization.
So I have a question about how that ties in.
But before that, if someone's not familiar with One Hood, can you give us just the breakdown
of what it is?
Yes.
So we're a social justice arts organization.
We're founded in Pittsburgh in 2006 in response to gun violence that was happening in the area. So a lot of our founders
who also happen to be hip-hop artists and poets would walk around the neighborhoods doing
anti-violence outreach, bringing kids in to teach them about art, giving them something to do at
night as opposed to getting in trouble, trying to just let people know that there are different alternatives in the world.
And from that, we kind of branched out to doing media.
And so the Media Academy part came in because we started creating our own media.
We started teaching youth about how to analyze media, what stories are there.
teaching youth about how to analyze media, what stories are there.
And so we've branched out to do like a full on multimedia arts organization. We're very lucky that we've been able to do that.
It also feels like big picture.
This is very related to the, just the role of art, right?
Like what is the purpose of art in our lives?
Why does art matter?
Why do we have art across history and across culture?
That seems like a big piece of what One Hood is actually getting at.
Nina Simone said, the duty of an artist is to reflect the signs of the times.
But part of the reflection is giving people hope for the future,
allowing people the space to envision what a world looks like,
where all of our resources and needs are met and inviting people
to tell their own stories. A lot of times, a lot of the pain and trauma comes from, you know,
whether intentional accident, violence that occurs because people who are impacted
are not at the tables making executive decisions, not making policy decisions, you know, and so a part of art does is allows
anyone and everyone to be a part of the conversation. And you just have a moment to
envision the world, to tell your story, to share your struggle. I think art is like so important
and impactful in that mindset because of art, you know, whether it's cooking or making whipped coffee or learning tap dancing
or singing or watching media, watching movies and TV shows, that's all art. Watching performances,
that is all art. The plays, the virtual museums, that's all art. And that got us through the worst
parts of this pandemic. And so I think you cannot divorce art and joy
from any type of organizing,
any type of tech building,
any type of work that people do.
Yeah, it's also, I think about how with art,
so much of making art is deciding
what is in the frame, right?
What gets highlighted?
What is put in the foreground?
What's put in the background?
And that's exactly what One Hood is trying to do, too.
Right. Being like these stories about black people are damaging and they're not accurate.
And we can change the frame by media training.
We can change the frame by creating our own stories.
We can change that by shifting what's in the focus and what's out of focus.
And it feels to me like that is a big part of not just art,
but also joy too, right? Is like expanding the frame to include the parts that aren't just this
negative piece, this inaccurate, smaller piece too. Yeah. And it's also allowing people to tell
their own stories and understanding that people are the experts in their own lives. There are so many people doing amazing
things in this world. And so for us, we're like, who's doing the artwork? Who can we put out?
So if you look at our social media, we amplify artists on Mondays and visual artists on Fridays.
We're not just like amplifying our friends. We're literally just combing social media
and trying to find people whose voices that we can share
and whose work that we can share
because it's so important to us
that other people have space and opportunities
and abilities to be shared and showcased.
And we're really trying to do that
in very intentional ways.
So that's some of the things that we've been doing.
Like whose story can we tell?
We don't have to always get credit.
I like the work that we push out.
We don't get credit for it.
And it's by intention and design because we believe in people so much.
And that's what we want to see.
All right, don't go anywhere.
We're going to take a short break, but we'll be back with more from Miracle Jones in just a moment.
Whether you're in your running era, Pilates era, or yoga era,
dive into Peloton workouts that work with you.
From meditating at your kid's game to mastering a strength program,
they've got everything you need to keep knocking down your goals. No pressure to be who you're not. Just
workouts and classes to strengthen who you are. So no matter your era, make it your best with
Peloton. Find your push. Find your power. Peloton. Visit Peloton at onepeloton.ca.
Peloton at onepeloton.ca.
Okay, we are back.
It's something that we talked about a little bit, or you touched on earlier, is the idea of toxic positivity, right?
And I think it's interesting to balance your commitment to joy with not falling into this
kind of toxic trap where it's like you're not allowed to ever feel sad or angry and
you always need to find a bright side.
There's always a silver lining to everything. And sometimes there isn't. So how do
you balance that commitment to joy with not falling into toxic positivity? I practice realism a lot.
And I'm trying to keep this very PG. Why cuss like a sailor sometimes when things do not go wrong.
That's a good way to, honestly, that's a great way to solve problems. Sometimes you need a curse.
Sometimes you have to curse. Sometimes you have to yell. But I'm very much trying to be present
in the present and like feel my feelings. And I know it just sounds like I'm like copying,
pasting words, but like when something goes bad, I'm like, this is bad.
This is messed up.
I'm not happy about this.
Like, what am I going to do?
What are the next steps?
I usually, because I don't like jail or prison personally, so I have to take a moment and think about like what's happening, right?
You know, be angry, but be strategic.
about like what's happening, right?
You know, be angry, but be strategic.
So I know there's been a lot of trials going on right now just about different murders and racial violence
that has happened in the past couple of years.
And I watch these things, I hear some of these arguments
and I'm like, this is really messed up.
Again, I'm usually cussing when I'm talking about that.
Yeah, messed up.
We all understand what it actually
means. You know, the autocorrect version and, um, and I feel it and I allow myself to feel it and I
process it. Um, and then I try to be like, okay, what can I do to fix it? And if I can't fix it,
can I just sit and cry? There are days where I will just like sit
and cry. I'm like, this is like very sad and I feel helpless and I can't do anything about it.
And then, you know, I'm like, okay, I felt it. Let me figure out where I can be of support,
where I can be of action and where I can change. Let me focus on that. And that's how I deal with things.
Am I able to hop on a plane and stop, you know, conflict from happening around the world? No.
Can I talk to my elected officials about not supporting war? Can I talk to corporations?
Can I talk to different people? Yes, I can do that. I can make that change that way. You know,
can I help support people who are resettled
in my area? Can I advocate that my social work programs talks about violence and anti-Blackness?
Can I do those things? Yes. And so that's how I navigate when things get too heavy,
which is figuring out where I can bloom, where I plant and where I can make a difference. So if someone is listening and they are, you know, they're going through an eviction or
they're going through a diagnosis with chronic disease, these things that are, you know,
that you've experienced and that are challenging for sure, really challenging.
Maybe I imagine that there's some people who are have a lot of difficulty in finding
the joy in those moments.
What would you say to someone who's going through that, who's in the heart of it right now?
How can they find a way to see something other than just the struggle at the moment?
I understand that.
And I want to be very clear.
The eviction, the illness, the surviving trauma and violence, that's not joyful. For me, what's joyful is being able to
look forward to the future. What was joyful was being able to reflect on the positive things
that happened. And what's joyful is being able to make a plan of action to make next steps.
And if that means going raging at political leaders because the supports weren't there, then do that. If that means building up a community of mutual aid, then so be it. Do that. But I want to be very clear.
I personally made when I navigated life's ups and downs and challenges.
And I think that other people can do this as well.
You understand that the negative things that happen in the world,
the violent things that you're going through doesn't stop you and preclude you from laughing,
from finding peace, from creating community.
That's what I would say. It almost sounds to me like, tell me, correct me if this is wrong, please.
But it sounds to me like part of your joy is the joy of resilience, right?
Is like that you were able to get through that, that you find a joy in having gotten
through these things that seemed really like almost impossible at the time.
Yeah.
And it's also understanding that some of those things shouldn't happen.
But it's like, yeah, I'm happy.
I'm proud of myself, you know, for going through it.
When I was going through things, I was like, yeah, this sucks.
This is not okay.
This is not right.
This is not fair.
And for me, it's like, oh, okay.
But I also had a community with my siblings, right? So like I had this built-in
support system. So even when my parents were going through their things, my siblings and I
were always going to look out for each other. We're always going to support each other.
We were always going to be cracking jokes when we were staying in an efficiency. We were like,
okay, we're going to build a fort and we're going to play. So my little sister isn't super scared about what's
happening right now. There are things that we did. And for me, I always found joy in my siblings.
So I always knew that there was going to be something better for us, even when things were
getting worse because I had each other, you know, we have separate, you know, beliefs and views, but my family and I, we've always
been able to support each other, even when we weren't always talking or always getting
along.
So I've always been able to find a moment of joy and peace in those situations.
And so that's where my worldview was developed and where I came from.
And it's very funny. My first speaking engagement, it happened just because I showed up.
It wasn't that I set out to do it. It wasn't that I had like a life plan. It was that I would tell
things and it would resonate with people. And sometimes I would feel bad because I would make
people cry. And I was like, it's not what I I wanted to do I was just trying to share like what my my stories were and and try to maybe talk about things we need to do
to change and then I had people just like crying and sobbing in front of me and I was like okay
well maybe I need to tell my story less no go tell more people okay and so that's how it happened so
it's kind of it's I'm thankful that you said that. But yeah, it's been, even with that,
it's just been like a journey because I'm learning to be like more vulnerable
because I'm usually like, nobody cares. Nobody cares.
So that's why I think I have to hear people like, Oh, this is cool.
You should share it. I'm very grateful for this opportunity.
And I hope it can help people be better humans.
I'm not taking responsibility if they don't,
but I hope it could help somebody somewhere.
Yeah, I'm gonna put that same disclaimer
on everything that I said in every episode of this show,
which is I'm not taking it on
if you don't become a better human.
You're supposed to be the one, you're the guest.
You're supposed to be making them a better human, not me.
So if you don't take it on, I definitely not taking it on.
I just put the call to action out there. I just give you some tips and you can decide whether
or not you want to be better. There you go. That's the world. Well, I also love the idea of you,
you know, you saying your truth and it being so powerful that people literally are brought to
tears. And then you being like, oh, I probably should not do this as much. That's like, no,
that's the most unique,
incredible ability of all,
to be able to touch other people.
Yeah, I think it's an honor,
but I think sometimes I always like wanna take people on
and like save them and hold them and hug them.
Obviously you can't because of like COVID,
but then obviously, you know,
people have to do like their own healing
and impact their own trauma.
And so I wasn't prepared for people to be like receptive to my story.
So like when I first did the TED Talk, I was like, are you sure?
Because I can get all these other people, their orders, their great people.
No, we like you.
I was like, are you sure you want to talk to me?
And they're like, yes.
I was like, are you sure you want to talk to me? And they're like, yes. I was like, okay. You know, and so, you know, it just took a little bit of time and support and persistence. I was like, okay, I'm gonna do this. And I had, it's kind of funny because I had talked to my mom, my siblings, I'm like, I would like to talk about the worst times in our lives. Is this okay? But even having those conversations, it was cool because we did as a family get to
re-talk about our trauma and our pain and what we hoped our lives would be and what our lives
are like now. And so I think that reflection is also a way to find joy because we get to see how
far we've gone or even how far we strayed and figure out what we want our lives to look like and work towards those goals, too.
What is one idea that has made you a better human?
One idea that has made me a better human is to bloom where you are planted.
as basically to be okay with where you are at and work in the places that you are at. Don't always try, you know, to take on too much or to wait for when the time is right, but just do what you can
now. If you're, you know, a singer, sing about things that you care about. If you're a gardener,
you know, tend to the universe and the environment where you are. Don't always
try to do stuff outside of your comfort zone. Don't take on too much. Just be who you are and
work in the skill sets that you have to make a difference. That's one thing that, you know,
has helped. Well, Miracle Jones, thank you so much for being on the show. It's such a pleasure
to get to talk to you. Thank you. Thank you so much, Chris. I'm very honored and excited and
just thank you for the opportunity.
That is it for today's episode. I am your host, Chris Duffy, and this has been How to Be a Better
Human. Thank you so much to our guest, Miracle Jones. Her organization is called One Hood.
That's the number one, H-O-O-D.org. On the TED side, this show is brought to you by
the bright side of Abimanyu Das, the silver lining of Daniela Balarezo, Frederica Elizabeth
Yosefov's half full glass, Ann Powers' blue sky, and the upside of Kara Newman. From PRX Productions,
How to Be a Better Human is brought to you by the overjoyed Jocelyn Gonzalez, the underjoyed
Pedro Rafael Rosado, and the exactly right amount of joyed Sandra Lopez-Monsalve. Thank you so much to everyone who has worked
on this show behind the scenes over the year. I am so grateful for your effort and your thought
and your care. And I am so grateful to all of you listeners for listening and supporting this show.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. If you have been enjoying the work that we're making for you,
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