How to Be a Better Human - How to make language fun— and create a more inclusive world (with Juli Delgado Lopera)

Episode Date: June 14, 2021

Do you remember the first time you used “Google” as a verb? Or a time before there were “selfies”? Language is constantly evolving, and as a result provides limitless opportunities to change how we see the world. Juli Delgado Lopera is the author of the acclaimed novel “Fiebre Tropical” (Feminist Press 2020), which was recently awarded the LAMBDA Literary Award for Lesbian Fiction. A Colombian now living in the U.S., Juli breaks down boundaries of English and Spanish in their work by de-stabilizing our notions of language, gender, and geography. In today’s episode, they explain the benefits of bending the rigid structures that language upholds and suggest exercises that can help us appreciate and find joy in words. “Fiebre Tropical” was a finalist of the 2020 Kirkus Prize in Fiction and the 2021 Aspen Literary Prize. Juli is also the author of “¡Cuéntamelo!” (Aunt Lute 2017), an illustrated bilingual collection of oral histories by LGBT Latinx immigrants. Their work has been nominated for a Pushcart Prize and has appeared in places such as Teen Vogue, The Kenyon Review, McSweeney's, The Rumpus, The White Review, LALT, Four Way Review, Broadly, and TimeOut Mag. They are the former executive director of RADAR Productions, a queer literary non-profit in San Francisco. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Peloton. Visit Peloton at onepeloton.ca. I am Chris Duffy, and this is How to Be a Better Human. So on today's episode, we're going to be talking about communicating across and between languages. I love learning languages. It's one of my favorite things. One of my favorite parts about learning a new language is getting to know the idioms and the proverbs. They make me so happy. For example, in Senegalese Wolof, if you want to say good things take time, you say, which literally means slowly slowly, slowly,

one catches the monkey in the forest. Or in Swedish, if they want to say that someone is born wealthy, instead of saying he was born with a silver spoon in his mouth, they say, he slid in on a shrimp sandwich. And oh my god, I love that. That is absolutely incredible imagery God, I love that. That is absolutely incredible imagery and a dream way of entering a room. And look, my point here is less about shellfish-based transportation methods and more about the idea

that there are almost limitless potentials to language. And it can be so joyful to experiment and creatively play around with how we describe the world around us. The way that we use language, it can change the way that we use language, it can change the way that we understand ourselves. And by breaking down some of these rigid structures that we've put up around language, we can find freedom and liberation. Today's guest is an author and

speaker who beautifully breaks down boundaries in their work and challenges their readers to think more deeply about language, gender, and location. Juli Delgado Lopera just won the Lambda Literary Award for Lesbian Fiction for their fantastic novel, Fiebre Tropical, which is written in both English and Spanish. And here is Juli at TEDxSoma talking about the way that they see language and the reason they reject the idea of writing work only in English or only in Spanish. We tend to think of language, in this case English, as a closed circle where all of us English speakers exist. A closed circle where correct English is elevated at the center. When someone says something in another language, we know it is

outside of that circle. When someone speaks English with an accent or without proper grammar, we know it is inside the circle, but not correct, not at the center. So we push both the language and the people who speak it to the margins. We really don't consider how looking at language as a closed circle with a solid center excludes so many people, so many ways of speaking and making sense of the world. How this in turn creates a hierarchy of language. So many people, so many ways of speaking and making sense of the world. How this in turn creates a hierarchy of language. My abilities as a student, a worker, my value as a human being has been questioned over and over again. And yet, there's beauty and connection in these marginal spaces.

For people in the margins, language creates cohesion between us. That different way of speaking is a secret door only some of us have access to. A door to an underworld of language freedom. We're going to have much more from Huli in just a second. But first, an ad. Whether you're in your running era, Pilates era, or yoga era, dive into Peloton workouts that work with you. From meditating at your kid's game to mastering a strength program,

they've got everything you need to keep knocking down your goals. No pressure to be who you're not. Just workouts and classes to strengthen who you are. So no matter your era, make it your best with Peloton. Find your push. Find your power. Peloton. Visit Peloton at onepeloton.ca. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever.

It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series 10, available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations,

iPhone Xs are later required. Charge time and actual results will vary. And we are back. Hi, everybody. My name is Julia Delgado Lopera and I am a Colombian writer and historian currently living in San Francisco. Well, I have to admit, I genuinely am a little like starstruck talking to you because

I just finished Fiebre Tropical and it was so beautiful and powerful and funny and sad and moving. I mean, it was so many things all at once. It's such an honor to get to talk to you after having read such a beautiful work. Oh, thank you. It means a lot. Thank you for all of that. Yeah. So I'm curious, in a book like Fiebre Tropical, that's your voice is so powerful and very unique. What do you do to maintain that? How do you fight to not sound like other people? That's a really good question. I think that the voice really came from wanting to have a lot of like linguistic legitimacy for myself. And so that is where a lot of the mix of languages comes from. I'm also very drawn to the kind of like sassy humor creativity that I grew up with growing up with a lot of women and also the kind of like humor that is allowed in Spanglish and so this character specifically she moves from Bogota to

Miami and she's just like this teenager who's done with everybody and like a good teenager you know she hates everything she's commenting on everything she's sassy I wanted to just you know, she hates everything. She's commenting on everything. She's sassy. I wanted to just, you know, be able to have this kind of like layer consciousness and to be able to showcase all the different parts that are constantly happening, especially for a teenager, right? Like you have your own internal chatter and then there's your mom telling you what to do and then there's a church and then there's like all the cultural expectations. And so I am very drawn by spoken word and I am very drawn specifically by the way that Spanish speaking immigrants have blended languages. And that is kind of like the craft of the voice. I've heard you talk before about the

difference in how you understood yourself and your family between when you were living in Colombia and after having moved to the United States, what role did language play in that? Well, it's huge. I mean, I think that I didn't see the role of language so much until I moved to the States. But when I was a kid, my family, so I grew up in Bogota, which is at the center, is the capital of the cities up in the mountains. And then my family is from the coast, the Caribbean coast. My grandmother is from there.

And so my, and I grew up around, I made Turkey five. My mom has five sisters. My grandmother is from there. And so my, my, and I grew up around a major key five. My mom has five sisters. My grandmother has five sisters. And so there's a lot of conversation. There's a lot of like made up words. There's a lot of rhythms. And I, I was fascinated by the way my aunties talk, all my tias talked. And since I was a kid, they all, they all remember me writing stuff down and just like marveling at them making that stuff. And so, you know, I was very drawn to language. I was writing a little bit when I was there. It was definitely when I moved to the States that language became so much more stark and vivid because all of a sudden I had to learn to speak in a new language.

All of a sudden my whole family was viewed differently. My mom used to have, you know, like a good job in Colombia. And then we came here and I would see how people would look down on her at the grocery store. People were condescending to her and she would just get really upset. I remember being in high school and having to be so anxious about having to read out loud because people would make fun of my accent. I used to write all my essays phonetically in Spanish. So like when I would go up, I would just read them. And I would have to figure out how to say things in English because phonetics in English work very differently than in Spanish. In English, you kind of have to

memorize the words. And so it was like very different. But what was what was really appealing to me, what really attracted me, similar to you in Bogota, was just this language that was developing inside my house, this blend of English and Spanish, this way my mom and my aunts were trying to figure out how to like say words that they need to know. And also the language that I was listening to on the streets of Miami and the grocery store. So like, you know, Cuban people basically built Miami since the 60s. And so there's a lot of Spanish and there's a lot of Spanglish. And they say things like la pinabora, te llamo patras, Thanksgiving, like all those things. And that seemed to me so much more closer to how I was experiencing the world. I would go to the school and I would be taught standard English, which, you know, is just another word to me to white English because, you know, language is extremely racialized.

I didn't know how I didn't know a lot of things. I didn't know how to conjugate. And then I would come home and like, you know, listen to my grandmother say things phonetically in Spanish and like made up words. For instance, she would call Peiles Pebles and Walmart Woma. I would just be laughing, but I would always be writing stuff down. And I didn't know that it was for anything.

I was just really attracted to that. And that I was kind of like nourishing that storyteller just by listening to the people around me and taking notes at the grocery store. I love the just clear passion for language and the playfulness around words and making things up. I mean, I completely relate to that, right, as a writer and just as a person. But I mean, when I was in third grade, the thing that I asked for for my birthday was like, will you give me a thesaurus and a dictionary and a bunch of books that are like word lovers dictionary? And I was just,

me a thesaurus and a dictionary and a bunch of books that are like word lovers dictionary. And I was just, I remember the pure joy of me learning the word defenestration and being like, there's a word for throwing someone out the window. That's my favorite word in the whole world. That's amazing. I'm curious, do you have a favorite word in English or Spanish or even a made up word? Oh my God, I have so many favorite words. Let's see. I was actually just writing. I'm writing stuff on Spanglish right now. There's a word that I really like.

It's called tumbao, which is kind of like the flavor and the swag that you have. I just love because, again, like the so you should say tumbado. But because it's spoken from the coast, you eat the D. In Spanglish, I really love cuina, which is the marriage of queen and reina, because it just like exemplifies so much of my existence and a lot of the queens that exist around me. Those are two big ones. I love tumbao, definitely. I use it a lot in my writing. If people know, I probably put it in every single thing that I write. I was going to say, I definitely recognize that from this book. There's no doubt. Yeah.

Well, one of the things that you talk about in your talk is you discuss the difference between a closed circle understanding of language and an open circle. I basically speak about how we look at language as a closed circle. So with a solid center. So what that means is that when somebody says something in another language, we know it is outside of that circle, right? So we look at English as solid. And then if somebody says something in French, it is outside.

We also see that there's a very solid center and the solid center is where the proper English comes from. And so anybody who has an accent or everybody who doesn't speak proper English, and this includes other communities like, you know, Black English, then that gets pushed aside into the margins. That doesn't make it to the center. The center gets regulated by, you know, how we institutionalize language. So for instance, the language that you see in journalism and politics, all of that stuff.

What I'm suggesting in the talk is that instead of looking at language as this solid circle, we look at it as like open circles that are touching each other. And so, you know, with no solid center. And so Spanish and English don't have real boundaries. They're just there. And they're there for us to be able to like maneuver in and out. So that's a little bit of what I mean by that. It's like we assume that we know when something is outside of that circle. And because we are so trained to believe that there's a solid center and there's a proper way of speaking, anybody who doesn't speak like that, we kind of push those people and those ways of speaking into the margins. And that creates very

real consequences for those communities and those people. You know, access to resources, your own self-esteem, your own livelihood, people think you're inferior. So all sorts of things happen because of this hierarchy of language, basically. Since people can't see you while you're talking, I also want to say that you very much put proper English in quotes, right? That's not your sense of it. It's interesting because I think that for many people who are born into families where English is the mother language and also everyone around you speaks English, sometimes one of the ways that this comes up is with the idea of an accent.

And people will say, like, you have an accent with the idea is with the idea of an accent. And people will say, you have an accent with the idea that they don't have an accent. Of course, my accent is non-accent. It's just the world around. And yet, when you think about it logically, everyone has an accent. There's an accent to everything you speak. And I think that this concept that you're bringing up of the idea that language is not proper and improper, but is constantly evolving and is something to be played with. You know, we realize that like words are invented every year and they are created and we start to use them. When you start thinking about like who is right and who is wrong, and maybe we could

lose that, you get a lot more creativity and joy in the language, which I think is really, it's a beautiful idea. It's also challenging, I think, for, it's a beautiful idea. It's also challenging, I think, for some people. How does language shape our identity? I know that's a big question, but I feel like that's kind of what we're getting at here. Yeah, I mean, I, wow, that's, I mean, it's a huge question because the way that each one of us uses language and our word choice or the way that we punctuate the words that we use that really speaks to our background. Right. Our access to education or immigration status or ethnicity.

And so, you know, language is very much, again, how we belong to certain circles and how we don't. And I will speak again, for instance, about queer people, queer people and LGBT people by that. I mean, LGBT people have created new language to represent our own realities, different bodies, different genders. So for instance, like, you know, I use they, them pronouns, and that wasn't around a while back. And it's because I am not either a man or a woman, but I identify as like neither. So queer people have been, you know, shaping language because it reflects our realities back. And that's a huge thing for anybody, you know,

a lot of communities that don't get their language legitimized. That's the way that we create a sense of self. And so, you know, it is through language that we understand each other and it's through language that we connect with one another. Anybody who's listening, you know, just think about your friends, think about your family. When you go to your family, your family is a special language and you do too. In a way, that's how you relate to each other, right? Like I speak only Spanish with my family, with my mom. And that's how we relate to one another. When I go with my friends, like there's certain words that we use, a lot of Spanglish. And that's how we relate to one another. When I go with my friends, like there's certain

words that we use a lot of Spanglish. And this is just a way that we build a sense of self. And in this way, we're also building kind of like different modes of being in the world that sometimes are not seen by the mainstream. Yeah. And I think that especially, I mean, you've said this several times because it's very true, right? Is the way that language can be so racialized, is so racialized in which like if this happens across languages, but it certainly happens within English too, the way that like white culture will appropriate black slang and then take it for its own and kind of strip it of its meaning in different ways. Thinking about that appropriation

piece, how do you in your head think about who should be using certain words and certain like Spanglish? What if you are not a Spanish speaker? Are there hard lines or is this something that people just have to constantly be feeling out? I do believe that people should just listen and be able to just have like non-judgment and be exposed to other ways of speaking, other cultures, listening to other music that is in another language and just kind of like sit with the discomfort of not having your reality reverberate back to you exactly as it is. For a lot of us who are in the margins of language and you are now bringing, you know, like Black English.

When I was going to school, a lot of, you know, a lot of the chastising was to immigrant kids, but it was also to Black children in the class who were also, quote unquote, not speaking proper English. And so there is many ways in which this, you know, when it gets appropriated, then like those communities are being kind of punished. But you know when it gets appropriated um then like those communities are being kind of punished but then like when it's appropriated by white people it just seems like like fun and it's a spectacle and so i do think that it is just definitely a conversation i love that people are learning spanish and that's amazing that i go to places and people can speak spanish to me you know if it comes from a place of generosity and what's the intention and how

much like exposure I've had to like that specific community, I do believe like it can land differently. But again, it just that depends on who's listening to you and who's saying it. My suggestion is just mostly to just listen and not be judgmental. That if people speak with an accent to not assume that they're inferior or that they have some sort of like lack of intelligence, that if people speak with an accent to not assume that they're inferior or that they have some sort of like lack of intelligence, that just people are speaking, you know, like with different grammar, just to be able to like sit back and let that take space, you know, and not have to like jump into it. I think that that's what I would suggest first as a first step to just like sit back and listen and just like let other modalities of

English and other modalities of language take up a lot of space and just see what happens. I'm not sure about like using it, but I'm definitely sure that the first step is just listening and like allowing for that to be allowing for that discomfort. You know, I think that it will be more comfortable to immediately be like, okay, well now I can use it, you know, I think that it will be more comfortable to immediately be like, OK, well, now I can use it, you know, but it's like let's just allow to be like uncomfortable with, you know, I don't know, like a Chinese person speaking to you and you're not understanding everything and just like just sit with a discomfort of that. I think that's beautifully put the idea that we don't have to immediately be comfortable in every moment, that it's not always about our comfort is a big thing. So I feel like some of these questions that I'm asking are coming from, obviously, my own experience. And I want to make sure that our audience is certainly not all white native English

speaker guys. So what about if for many of the people who are listening, who are around the world listening, your native language is not English and you're trying to communicate or trying to write in a different language. What advice do you have for people on how to use their other linguistic abilities and their experiences as a gift rather than to see it as like, oh, I'm not doing it proper again, quote unquote?

Yeah, I mean, I love this question because it's like one of the things that pops up a lot when I've been doing interviews, a lot of immigrant kids, not only Latinos, but a lot of immigrant kids who are like, oh my God, like I've never been allowing myself to do that because I'm just scared that people are not going to take me seriously. The first thing I will say is just like have a notebook and write shit down. first thing I would say is just like, have a notebook and write shit down. Pay attention to the things that really call on you. And don't, it doesn't have to immediately be like an end product, right? Like, I think that we always think about like, things have to have an end product. But just let that come to you. And by that, I mean, you know, if you're walking around the street, and there's a sign that says something in two languages, wherever you are, then write it down.

If something comes up to you, if your aunties are talking about something and you love the way that they're structuring their sentences, just write it down. I think it's about paying attention to what you're interested in, paying attention to how a language shows up for you. And the way of paying attention is having some sort of awareness. So have your little notebook and just like write stuff down with like no, you know, no intention to do anything other just that, like knowing yourself. And I think that that's the best, the first step. And then the second step would just be to read other writers who have done something similar that you love.

You know, just that's another way of learning how to blend languages or do something that you want in your art, you know, and that's, it's for writers, but I mean, like for anybody who's doing artists, I just look at stuff that really resonates with you. It's like, oh my God, I really want to do both languages. Let me see how this person is doing and how they're structuring voice, but definitely paying attention to what calls onto you. And that way you learn to and that's that's I think, like going back to your first question, how you don't replicate other people is because you are just listening to yourself. And of course, you're influenced by

so many people and so many ways. But if you're just having your own awareness, it's yours. It's so interesting, because I wouldn't have thought of this as a similarity at all. And yet, as you're saying it, I'm like, this is exactly when people ask me, what do you do to become a comedian? My first piece of advice is always write down everything that you think is funny because you probably think of hundreds of things funny every week and you just lose them. And so the first step is just like with any art, right, whether it's visual or performance or writing is just keeping track of the things that you love and that tickle your brain in this particular way.

And then you figure out over time how to use that raw material. But if you don't have the raw material, it's really going to be hard to start and do any of it. Exactly. And it also takes you away from your phone. Just have your little notebook and just pay some attention and do. I mean, this is this is it's beautiful, but because it's like labor that you're doing for your own creative practice. Just like, you know, Instagram doesn't have all the answers. We're going to take a quick ad break, but we'll be right back in just a moment. Don't go anywhere.

Whether you're in your running era, Pilates era, or yoga era, dive into Peloton workouts that work with you. From meditating at your kid's game to mastering a strength program, they've got everything you need to keep knocking down your goals. No pressure to be who you're not. Just workouts and classes to strengthen who you are. So no matter your era, make it your best with Peloton. Find your push.

Find your power. Peloton. Visit Peloton at onepeloton.ca. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping.

And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes. And we are back. So as we continue this discussion about language and how to break away from what Hooli has called the closed circle idea of language, let's listen to another clip from their talk at TEDxSoma. Now, think of the ways that you speak, the words that you use. Think of it as if you have borrowed words from your parents, your friends. This is how you know you belong to the circles, right?

By echoing back that language. Wouldn't our world be that much more interesting? Wouldn't our notion of what it means to be human expand? What would happen if these different ways of using language, of mixing English with other languages, of making up words, were not considered less than, but instead manifestations of creative brilliance? People are, after all, inventing, creating, mixing.

What would happen if, for instance, we didn't see English and Spanish as mutually exclusive as two separate languages, but as open circles touching each other? Imagine legislation written in Spanglish or traffic signs written in queer slang. Men at work. I want to invite us to suspend the idea of a correct way of speaking, a correct way of using language, and let's allow for those rhythms, those incorrect words at the margins to rise up. Let's listen.

Recognize the glitter in each other's way of speaking. Activate that kid at the dining table who is in awe and curious about language and its world. Their endless possibility to bring surprise and magic through language. Let's dance pegadito with language. Let's tune into the ways that each one of us speaks. The many different ways that each one of us makes sense of the world.

Juli, I'd love to talk more about the ideas that you were discussing in that talk. I'm curious about the ways in which the language you're communicating affects not just how you communicate, but also what you communicate. you're communicating affects not just how you communicate, but also what you communicate. Like, do you find that you have a different personality in English versus in Spanish or maybe in your writing? Oh, my God. Yes. I love that question because I am completely different when I'm talking all in Spanish.

How so? Um, there's something there's a there's incredible playfulness that comes in because it just feels very like home. So I just spent a month in Miami visiting my mom. And when I came back, the first thing my girlfriend says is like, oh my God, every time you come back, you're like, you're so Colombian. And by that, it's just like, I'm just like bringing in all these idioms. I'm talking like my mom and I'm gesturing. And I just love for me, because I don't live in Colombia, the performance of the language feels amazing. You know, I just

perform like, you know, a little an older lady who's just very annoyed at things. And I just love being like embodying that. It just feels like very real. But yeah, I'm I'm I'm different. I'm a different person and I access kind of like different parts of myself. What do you wish people understood about language? I wish that people understood that it's limitless and that it's playful and that you can actually have a lot of fun with it. That, you know, language is always also a colonial tool and it's still a tool of like, you know, systems of power and of oppression. And at the same time, you know, if we take a step back and suspend our judgment of people who speak differently, suspend our judgment of people who

use language differently, and just pay attention and enjoy yourself and expose yourself to different ways and modalities of language, it can be actually really fun. I, you know, I ran a literary organization for four years, a queer literary organization. And part of the challenge to me was like, only writers come to readings. I think literature is amazing. Why isn't anybody coming to this? And I had to devise ways of creating programming around storytelling that was inviting to other people. So I did drag shows that build in storytelling, you know, video installations that run in storytelling, just to like, get people in relationship to language to have a connection with language, because I think

literature and language are amazing. And we don't exist in a culture where that's actually like fostered, when we actually like learn how to have an intimate and joyful relationship with language, right? Like most people, if you're a writer, you're really not reading, you're just consuming language through the television or marketing. And so that's like the way that you understand language and there's actually all this world if you just pay attention this incredible world uh where language is playful and joyful and you know like it's an invitation to just notice some of that if i'm someone listening and i have not really felt invited into this world i haven't felt like I identify with the ability to play with language. What are maybe three things that I can do to start playing around with it and start

feeling like I own it and can pull joy out of it? Yeah, there's something that Linda Barry, who's amazing, amazing, amazing cartoonist, she called the word bag. And so if you draw a bag in your little like notebook and it's like your word bag and, you know, just notice the words that you repeat a lot and start writing them down again, just like, you know, if you're reading the newspaper, somebody says something funny in the TV, just writing in your word bag and like, but actually draw a bag in it. And that's the one activity that you can do that it's going to start like pulling you into language differently. I also think that, you know, watching like foreign movies with subtitles is great, because sometimes the translations are so weird,

and they make no sense. And I love that. So you know, and like, by having like joy in that. And, you know, thirdly, just like the I mean, exposing yourself, like creating your own word bag and then just like celebrate the differences in language. You know, stop yourself if again, if you're at the grocery store and you don't understand what the cashier is saying because, you know, she may have a thick accent, you know, instead of like having this internal judgment, just kind of like breathing it out and like, you know, have joy with the fact that somebody's speaking differently. Somebody's saying, you know, tomato in a different way. Somebody's saying peanut butter instead of peanut butter. How fun is that? That peanut butter doesn't exist just like as one rigid, solid thing. It's just, it can be la peanut butter. You know, I think it has a lot to do with like, just like suspending the judgment. I feel like we've really covered a lot about the joy and the playfulness of language and the way that it is fluid in the best way and that you can find your own space, but also create your own space in language. How can people let go of the idea that there is a one proper way to speak a language?

And I'm specifically wondering, like, what would you say to more traditional institutions? I mean, I would say, well, one is just looking also at the history of language. The Real Esca de Mi Española knows that Spanish is full of Arabic words. And the way that they got them is because of the evolution of language. They also have like Catalan there. that they got them is because of the evolution of language. They also have like Catalan there. And they also, so, you know, like they know that they're also like understanding how, you know, there used to be, and there still are a lot of indigenous languages spoken in

the U.S. And English was brought here through a colonization project, and it was actually imposed as part of the colonization project, and it was actually imposed as part of the colonization project. And so I think that what I would say is this, you know, read more about like, you know, listen to this podcast is a great start. And just like, kind of like starting to understand the way that language has been institutionalized. So we believe that it's like one thing. But if you actually, you know, if you live in a city, just walk around your city and like, hear people hear the way that people are actually communicating. And if you don't, and if you're, you know, you're an older person, like listen to the way your

grandchildren speak, you do not speak the same way as they do. And so even if it's not a mixture of two languages, it is the evolution of slang, right? And so like probably if you're 80, you did not grow up saying selfie. But if you have a 13 year old, they did. And they have all this language around technology. And so that's very similar. You know, there's language that is being generated to represent a reality which we currently exist in. And so these are just other modalities in which language is evolving. And so, you know, paying attention and again, you know, against suspending judgment, I think that's really hard sometimes. But it's also understanding that some of this stuff comes tied to racism and xenophobia,

that a lot of the ways that people are scared of, you know, how immigrants talk has to do with like, you know, the way that Spanish has been seen as inferior in this country because it's tied to immigration and that's tied to immigration policy. And the same with, for instance, with like Black English, which is tied to like Black people, which is tied to racism. And so I think that, you know, both in a systemic way, you can look at it and also just in a historical way, just like understanding the way that languages have evolved differently. But yeah, I mean, looking at history, if you're older, looking at younger people, how they're using language, and even if you, you know, do not like it, selfie made it into the dictionary. Like it or not, selfie's a word now. Selfie's a word. And it's a word because a lot of people have been using it.

You know, that's just like an example. And all of that is just like blending languages. So just like paying attention and like looking at the way that other communities are doing it. I think that just, you know, either history or looking at your younger grandchildren or children. What is one way in which you personally are trying to be a better human right now? I meditate a lot. I pause every single day. Every single morning, I take 15 minutes to just like sit in silence and like just focus on my breathing and focus on trying to be like kind and generous to people around me, especially if I don't understand.

And so that's how I'm trying to be a better human. Well, Juli, thank you so much for being here on the show. It was a real honor to talk to you. Thank you for having me. This was wonderful. It was such a wonderful conversation. Really appreciate it. That is it for today's episode. I am your host, Chris Duffy, and this has been How to Be a Better Human. Thank you so much to our guest, Julio Delgado Lopera. Their award-winning novel, Fiebre Tropicale, is available in bookstores now. On the TED side, this show is brought to you by Impressive Noun, Abimanyu Das, Positive Adjective, Daniela Balarezo,

Playful Gerund, Frederica Elizabeth Yosefov. Complimentary adverb, Ann Powers. And action verb, Kara Newman. And from PRX Productions, How to Be a Better Human is brought to you by Jocelyn Gonzalez, who confidently uses both similes and metaphors. And Sandra Lopez-Monsalve, who generously said, that is pretty close, when I asked if I was pronouncing the Colombian Spanish correctly. Thank you for listening, and remember, you gotta go slow if you want to catch a monkey.

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