How to Be a Better Human - Why your brain is an unreliable narrator (w/ Aparna Nancherla)

Episode Date: August 21, 2023

Impostor syndrome is one of many therapy-speak words that have gone mainstream in the past few years — but what is it, really? Aparna Nancherla knows all about it. Aparna is a comedian and the author of Unreliable Narrator: Me, Myself, and Impostor Syndrome. Despite her success as a performer, she isn’t immune to self-doubt. In this episode, she talks about the ways she’s learned to deal with impostor syndrome: like creating a resume listing all her failures, or making up words at parties to gauge other people’s reactions. She also shares how she learned to put less stock in success and what to do when your mind isn’t telling you the truth. For the full text transcript, visit go.ted.com/BHTranscripts Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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my head starts to spin. Like who am I to host this show or to host any show for that matter? Why on earth would I think that people should listen to me ask questions about being a better human? And why would these successful, intelligent guests agree to an interview? It's easy to start feeling like this whole thing is a fraud and I'm about to be found out and kicked out and that I'll never work again. I want to say, but of course that's not the case. That's like what would make sense

to say here, but of course that's not the case. But if I'm being honest, I don't know that I really believe that that's not the case. Sometimes I really wonder. I hope that these feelings of insecurity are wrong and inaccurate, but I can't say that I know for sure. And I think that almost all of us have those doubts sometimes where we question ourselves and feel like we're faking it. But for some people, those feelings can be constant, intense, and powerful. Imposter syndrome.

Today's guest, Aparna Nancherla, writes intense, and powerful. Imposter syndrome. Today's guest, Aparna Nancherla, writes about her own experiences with imposter syndrome and other mental health challenges in her book, Unreliable Narrator, which comes out September 19th. Amy Poehler described Aparna's book as a deeply honest and funny look at how exhausting it can be to live a human life. And here's a clip from the audiobook, courtesy of Penguin Random House Audio. I wanted to write a book about imposter syndrome because it's an identity I've embraced without question my entire life. Like being a Leo.

I'm right on the cusp, but it's the more fun, flamboyant one. My pragmatic Virgo heart unenthusiastically understands. Or having brown eyes. I used to think they were black. You know, like Amircats. But there's no wiggle room on this one, as fun as a wiggle room sounds. My scammer-identifying roots go way back. On my mother's telling, I was born with jaundice and suctioned out via vacuum, so I showed up unwillingly with a cone head and yellow eyes, perfectly styled for my National Enquirer cover photo shoot. Even then, I arrived in the manner

of someone who wants everybody else to understand I wasn't thrilled about my whole deal either. We're going to have a lot more from Aparna, an undeniably successful amount of conversation, in just a moment. But first, a few podcast ads. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping.

And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series X. Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone Xs are later required. Charge time and actual results will vary. And we are back. On today's episode, we're talking about imposter syndrome with Aparna Nancherla. Hi there, I'm Aparna Nancherla.

I'm a comedian and the author of Unreliable Narrator, Me, Myself, and Imposter Syndrome. Aparna, you wrote a book about imposter syndrome, but what is imposter syndrome? So imposter syndrome, as I learned in writing the book, the technical definition is the feeling that you are just a fraud or just undeserving of any success or things you've accomplished. And it's all due to kind of luck or chance and not any skill you possess. And you kind of this just persistent feeling that you're going to be found out by, you know, your peers or those around you for not having the capability that they think you do. And you talk about in the book how it's caused some like very real issues and mental struggles for you.

It's also a term that I think a lot of people use kind of very casually, like, oh, I have imposter syndrome. So why do you think that is? I mean, I think that goes along with kind of a lot of things like kind of therapy speak has become increasingly, for lack of a better word, gentrified in our culture in that they just have become more shorthand for a bigger like umbrella things. Like if you're feeling sad, you're like, oh, I'm depressed today or something, you know, like it's just become a little diluted. And I think so imposter syndrome has kind of, I think, become

an umbrella term for anything where you kind of feel out of place, maybe, or like you don't fit in or people are undervaluing you. And I think it is targeted towards, you know, women and minorities. So in that sense, maybe it's like a term that can cover a lot of feelings of maybe not quite knowing how you fit in. And you talk about in the book, a joke that you love from the comedian Joshua Benowitz about how cool people have gentrified the word awkward so that like actual awkward people like him no longer have something to use because like they call things awkward that are not awkward at all. He put it like beautifully because I do think these words get co-opted. And then, I mean, I think it's very much a good thing that certain terms get pulled into the mainstream in terms of just being able to have, you know, more open conversations about mental illness and feelings that are typically associated with like shame or

things we don't want to air in public. But yeah, I do think the other the flip side of that is just once you bring something into like a broader spectrum, then the term itself becomes a little bit distorted from the original meaning like it like now, if you say imposter syndrome, it might not always mean the technical definition when people are using it. I really love the book. I think it's so good. You walk a kind of a really difficult line in the book, which is you write about some really serious stuff and you talk about it without undercutting its seriousness, but then you also have moments of pure silliness. And you talk about the kind of meta-ness of writing a book about feeling like you're an

imposter, which is a thing that is a role that normally an expert would do, right? To like write it in. And so in some ways you're like, of course you are an expert in this and you have so many things to say, but there's these feelings that get brought up by the very nature of writing a book about it that make you feel that imposter syndrome or Achilles. And you talk about that in the book. I like my full time job as a comedian and like not taking layman's background in doing a little bit of research and like reading an article and letting that inform me. So I think I really leaned into any, you know, tiny background I have in the like, scientific inquiry process and was like, I'm going to figure this out. So when you think about like the way that imposter syndrome intersects with your life and your work as a standup, you talk about in the book, a lot of different places. And one of them

is how you look and your sense about your appearance and fitting in. And you write about how you haven't really felt like you conformed. You used to have a joke that you used to start sets with. That was something along the lines of like, I know, I'm also surprised that I'm a comedian. Yeah, I mean, I think part of it is just the, you know, luck or privilege of having gotten to do this as a career and kind of made a little bit more of a name for myself.

But then I think on the other hand, I was just like, I don't, I'm a little bit also doing myself a disservice by being like, yeah, I also am like, what the heck am I doing here? You know, like, it is a way of kind of front and center airing your imposter syndrome out loud. But then I was like, am I in a way kind of setting the audience up to be like, prove yourself in a way that I don't need to be. It's a joke that worked for you with audiences, worked in the sense that they laughed. Yes. But that like, if I was to walk out on stage and say that joke, it wouldn't have worked

because I think people wouldn't have been like they would have been like, why are we surprised that you're a comedian? You look exactly like 900 percent of comedians. Like that's not the thing. And so it's interesting to think in the chapter about your appearance, how you felt like you didn't conform to people's ideas, which often were like straight, heterosexual, white. It did feel like a joke about external identity and stuff that, you know, you, not being like this loud, like boisterous, maybe a certain type of comedian energy that I was also kind of commenting on in saying that. So I have thought in the past,

like, oh, I wonder if I was like my identity, but you know, maybe a more extroverted, like, gregarious, bubbly kind of person with that joke have worked as well? Like sometimes I think it's like, yeah, more than just the external factors to have you come up with some new way of explaining that sense of like, maybe I don't always feel like I'm supposed to be here. But that feels more cohesive to who you are as a as a whole. Yeah, I mean, I have a joke I do now where I'm like, a lot of comedians like to break the fourth wall where they kind of like really get with the audience. And I kind of pre-established that I'm like pretty uncomfortable with the audience leading up to the joke I say, which is like, I'm actually working on breaking the fifth wall, which

is just that I abruptly stop talking and go home. that I abruptly stop talking and go home. So like, I sort of frame that I'm like, yeah, I have a lot of, you know, ambivalence about being here too. And, and in that way, like commenting, not only on like, if they feel weird that I'm a comedian, but I'm like, I also am like, what is this? Like, this is so weird in a way that's more personal to me. So if someone's listening and they're not a comedian, but they are dealing with these feelings of like being a fraud and really struggling with like the sense of belonging, what are some things that you found in your research or in your own life that they can do to help themselves to deal with imposter syndrome? Yeah. I mean, I think one big thing for me is just like talking about it with other people.

Like I know that's probably well-trod advice in a lot of areas, but I do think with a lot of feelings around imposter syndrome, whether that's shame or like doubting yourself, like it is, you kind of can create a vacuum where you're just like so convinced of your own incompetence, you just start like seeking evidence of it, and it becomes a little bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy. So I think the more you can get out of your head and like talk to other people and realize that a lot of people are either experiencing the same feelings or don't feel that way about you, it can be really helpful like reminders or just reframing of your own perspective. And, you know, therapy is always

a great thing. I also think now imposter syndrome has been like, there's been more pushback against it. I think the term has proliferated in terms of just its usage and the way it's marketed as like some, like the newest thing you can like fix about yourself. And I do think some of it maybe is more just like an institution not doing enough to like support who's there and like people who might not conform to who's been there in the past. So also remembering it might not just be an individual level problem at all is like really important in terms of like more systemic change. Yeah, you talk in the book, you have this moment where you're talking about being on a panel show, basically, where you're just chatting, you're not actually doing stand up. And you mentioned

struggling with imposter syndrome. And then one of the hosts of the show just kind of lists off all of the reasons why you are a successful performer and comedian. And that it kind of blows your mind in a way. Yeah. I mean, I would say the experience in the moment was horrifying. Like someone just like reads your resume out loud uh during an interview it is kind of excruciating though i'm sure there is like a personality type out there that would love that but not me but yeah i think it was like if you are having like an actual debate with someone about your you you know, is Aparna an imposter or not? And then they, their side presents like, well, you've done this and this and this and this. It is like,

it does feel like my brain's rebuttal would be like, yeah, but she still sucks. You know, like, like it doesn't, it's quite not as strong an argument like out outside sometimes as it is in, in the confines of your brain. Yeah, I think about this a lot in the sense that like, even though I know it, it's hard to believe it, that it's so easy to see other people more accurately than it is to see myself. Like when I see a friend, I'm like, the fact that you got rejected from one thing, that doesn't mean anything.

You're going to be successful. And then when it's me, I'm like, they finally found me out. All the rejections from here on out, there never will be another acceptance. And like, that feels real internally, even though I know when I talk to a friend who's going through that, I'm like, of course, that's not what that means. I think it's just because the way we relate to ourselves is so intuitive and like instinctive that we never think that like, you know, some impulse we have on how we read ourselves could ever be like incorrect or distorted because we're like, but it feels so real or it feels like beyond the intellectual, like rational side of things. You also talk in the book about this idea of a failure resume. And you write one. Can you explain that?

Yeah. So I did this failure resume. I actually had this idea. I was like, what if I just make a resume of all the ways that I've like failed, but kind of like brag about in the way a resume does. But then I looked it up on the internet. And of course, someone had already done it before. But it was like in more in the academic sphere, like someone had written a CV of like, you know, all the research grants they didn't get and all the yeah, all the their failures

as a scientist. And so I was like, well, I guess I'm in a different field, I can do it and it will be different enough. And the funny thing is, I cite the person who had done it previously in the science world. And then I listened to a podcast recently, and someone cited the failure CB and it was someone else who did it. So I feel like it just that there's like become now a meta level of like everyone kind of doing this failure CV, but then maybe not crediting other people for it, which it just creates a whole nother level of failure. Yeah, to have failed at doing it, failed at doing the failure CV properly is a really great

way to start your failure CV or failure resume. Yeah. But then it's funny because with the person, I guess, who originally did it, who I didn't even know about, they said it was like of all the things they had done in their career, that was the thing that got the most traction, which was just like a funny thing to realize that people because I in, you know, in writing the book, I did a bunch of research on failure and like how it impacts us and how we internalize it. And it is like, you know, when we fail, it is so threatening to our ego that we do kind of shut down and it does kind of impact our performance. But if we hear about other people's failures, or like learn from their mistakes, we actually take in quite a lot. And it like helps us quite a bit. So it's almost like an act of altruism to share your failures, because you're like helping

other people maybe even more than yourself. So is that why you did the failure CV for yourself? that why you did the failure CV for yourself? I did it for myself because I also was just like, I think there are some rejections I've had in the past that I really like felt like they really stuck with me in terms of like, oh, this really proves that you don't belong. And I was like, what if I just tell everyone about them? Like, I don't know if that'll make them less triggering to me, but at least then they won't be secrets. So I think that's kind of where the seeds started. Once I wrote them down, I was kind of like, oh, yeah, who cares? One of the interesting parts of a failure resume to me is that when I started to even think about what I would put down, I realized that the list was so kind of impossibly long.

But that actually made me realize like, oh, these things don't matter, right? Like, like, you can get rejected 100 times before you get one job. Yeah. And I think the reason they stick with us is because we maybe in some cases, are like, so convinced of like, if I got got this like my life would then go this way and I would be on this path and and I also try to remind myself when I have gotten the things that doesn't happen like I'm the same person with the same like doubts going into that job and I'm like scared about it or scared again that they're going to find out I don't deserve to be there. So it's like, I guess as I've gotten older, I just remember that like getting the thing is not going to necessarily like fix everything or even be what you wanted in the first place.

Something that I have found really changes goals for me and makes them feel more attainable is to focus on what's in my control rather than what is out of my control, which is often getting picked. Right. So like if I say like I'm going to get a new job, that's not actually totally in my control. But if I'm going to apply to a new job, that actually is in my control. And so I started at the beginning of the year when if I make like a list of goals for the year, I almost always include rejections. So like on my list right now for me personally is like, I'm gonna get 10 big rejections from places that publish articles.

Like I'm gonna submit articles to big places and they're gonna reject me. But if I get 10 rejections, that'll mean that I at least tried 10 times. Right. If I ever get my act together enough to make a list of goals, I'm going to do that. Yeah. Well, your first one can be your first goal could be fail at making a list of goals and then you can check that one off. But that's so smart because it's true. There's like there are definitely going to be rejections. So to, to kind of even anticipate them is so smart. I have the feeling of like, if someone wasn't a fraud, they would be getting

approached all the time. They wouldn't have to reach out. People would say like, will you do this exciting thing? Whereas I'm like begging, will you please let me do this thing? Like, will you let me write for you? Will you let me perform on your show? Will you let me do these things? And I, the narrative I have in my head, which I know is not true, is that like, that is the sign that you're a fraud. That like, if you were real, they would just ask you, you wouldn't have to ask them. And so if I flip it around and I'm like, well, I'm going to just embrace that a little bit. And I'm just going to get rejected from the things that a non-fraud would, would have gotten offered. Ah, got it. Yeah. And I think sometimes societally there,

we are so enraptured by the idea of like success after success or just the person who just keeps winning or, and I think it does create this idea that there's some people that are just like chosen, you know, like they're undeniable or they like worked harder than the next person. And I don't, I think there is so much randomness and chance that's always involved and that we don't fully acknowledge the myth of the

kind of like, they did it all themselves, or like they pushed a little harder than the next person. Like we just, I think, love that idea, especially as Americans. And I think it just doesn't account for what it is to actually live a human life. We're going to take a quick ad break here because that is how we live the podcast life. But we will be right back after this with more from Aparna. The Apple Watch Series 10 is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping.

And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you 8 hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series X. Available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone XS or later required, charge time and actual results will vary. Fast forward four decades, and on the heels of moderate success as a comedian, I still

only warily accept I've accomplished anything or that I ever could again. I'm relieved I don't consider my continual breathing itself a fluke. Eh, my lungs got lucky. There was an extra opening for oxygen intake. I'm aware that my self-image is distorted, but does it matter if I fully buy into it? Hello, fringe religions and small-batch cults. Sometimes it's almost like my imposter syndrome is the majority of me and the rest is my shadow. That was a clip from Aparna Nancherla's audiobook, Unreliable Narrator.

And as she discusses a lot in the book, even though Aparna has had a ton of documented career success, it doesn't always feel like that internally. So Aparna, something that I've always really admired about you is that rather than waiting for gatekeepers or to be selected as the featured comic at a club or something like that, you've built this career on your own terms, often outside of the traditional stand-up comedy world, right, by using the internet or by performing in places that aren't comedy clubs. And I think that's really wonderful that you've like blazed your own trail.

You know, I didn't quite feel like I fit what they wanted or were looking for. So I think I tended to, when I was coming up, you know, lean towards spaces that were kind of outside of that model. And I think I was lucky in that, you know, the internet kind of exploded as my comedy career progressed. And, you know, there were all these platforms where you could put up content. And I feel like I benefited from like early days of Twitter where I could like put a bunch of my jokes online and, and be, you know, noticed that way. And so I do think as I chose these sort of alternate venues, there became more opportunities. So I, again,

got a little lucky in that sense, but I decided like that model wasn't going to work for me or I just like didn't really understand the terms and how I could conform to them. So I was like, well, I guess I'll just do it a little differently and see what happens. Well, I think that the reason I bring it up is because it feels connected to imposter syndrome, because it's like, if you you're listening whatever your version of the comedy club is right like maybe it's like oh i'm supposed to go to this specific type of academic institution or i'm supposed to work at this prestigious company or i'm supposed to have this type of house or this type of partner you know whatever the box is that you're supposed to fit in

there's this sense where if the if you don't fit into that box or that box isn't working for you or you can't get in for any reason that then like, well, there's no way to have success. And so how do you in that moment be like, I'm going to just kind of do my own thing and it's going to it's going to be OK. Like, what do you tell yourself? I realized for me, like certain comedy show environments, like certain types of clubs and stuff, they just like made me feel bad more

than good. Like, I think you have to, at some point, just be able to take those risks and, and be okay with knowing that it might, you know, in the short term, or maybe even like in the foreseeable future, not necessarily be like assured great decision or like the right decision. But know that it kind of fits what your intuition is telling you. Well, I feel compelled to do this, because we're talking about imposter syndrome. And you wrote a book about imposter syndrome to just tell you that you're doing a really great job right now and this is a great interview and uh you are giving the advice that a uh wise and uh established expert would give which is who you are so if you're not feeling that it is actually true and happening from the outside just so you know internally oh no the oh no that's not what you wanted to hear huh yeah I'm so bad I'm still like practicing as

a human like learning to take a compliment or be like praised in sort of any kind of public format I'm just like well okay I guess you can say that like but no thank you that's very nice it'd be hilarious if you just ended this interview now. You're like, that's it. I'm out. Yeah. Walk out of the interview. They're like, interviewee walks out due to excessive praise.

Yeah. Was offended by being complimented. Walked out. This interview's over. You can't treat me like that. So there's some really serious parts of your book, obviously. But there's also some really funny parts where you talk about like ways that you've dealt with the idea of imposter syndrome and like the feeling that you're the only one who is making it up and is faking your way through it. And one that made me laugh a lot is you play a party game where when you're at a party, you try and drop a word that you made up and see if anyone will even say anything about it.

I haven't done this as of recent as much, but sometimes I'll just like slip in a word that I kind of made up that it's not like, it can't sound too silly, but it, you know, it sounds like SAT word adjacent or something. And, and then I just see if anyone kind of like asks like, or something. And, and then I just see if anyone kind of like asks like, Oh, what does that mean? Or, or is that a word or, and you know, no one ever challenges it. I think they're either like afraid to seem dumb or yeah, they're like, Oh, I guess everyone else knows what this word means. So I'm not going to say anything. And I've, I've been that person, you know, on the other side of things where everyone's like talking about a movie I haven't seen. And I've, I've been that person, you know, on the other side of things where everyone's like talking about a movie I haven't seen.

And I just, I'm like, oh yeah, that movie's great. You know, I fully don't know what anyone is talking about. So I think it is a little, just the micro social experiment of how we all are just trying to like, keep up with everyone else. Can you help us generate a few right now? So that, you know, people, if, if they're struggling to come up with their own word, like what are some good fake words that sound real that people can just like toss into conversation there i think the one in the book is furnicious furnicious yes it's a very

furnicious exercise and furnicious is great yeah it can't be like too silly because like if i try to think of one right now they're gonna be like too silly like i was thinking of like um brad aside yeah that feels like it actually i believe 100 that is the real act of killing a Now they're going to be like too silly. Like I was thinking of like Bradicide. Yeah, that feels like it actually. I believe 100% that is the real act of killing a brat. Yeah, I was thinking of like Plungent. Oh, Plungent's great. There's also words that are just created all the time by the media, you know, or like slacktivism or like there's always words being generated by the internet like every second so

you're just like maybe people are also now just like oh that's probably a word i just didn't read the latest like you know twitter storm or whatever it is yeah a way that this comes up for me a lot is i've read a word but i've never heard it said out loud and then I'm like oh maybe that's the thing like I remember being 100% sure thousand percent sure that m-a-c-a-b-r-e was pronounced macabre and then I heard someone say macabre and I was like macabre what is macabre I remember I had a friend now I can't remember who it was, but she had always pronounced misled, mizeled. That's really good. I don't know why. I was like, what?

Like, how could you? And she was just like, I don't know. That's how I read it. Yeah. I knew someone from my high school who was like, if not the top of the class, extremely close to the top of the class. Yeah. Very well read and he was

positive that the word prima donna was pre-madonna and he thought it was like it meant like you're a big diva because it's like before madonna like he had this whole explanation in his head for why i was like oh yeah she's a prima donna she's before Madonna. And then when he learned that it was not that, he was truly shocked. Wow. I kind of want that word to exist, though, as he imagined it. Like, it feels like a very incisive way to talk about pop history. Yeah. But, you know, it all goes back to this idea of, like, all in some ways trying to like look around and see, hey, does everyone else know what's going on here?

Totally. Do I fit in? Have I been saying this thing wrong the whole time? Have I been acting wrong? Am I been like living my whole life wrong to pivot a little bit here and to talk about something significantly more serious? little bit here and to talk about something significantly more serious. I think that, at least for me, when I first think about the concept of imposter syndrome, it mostly registers to me as being like professional success or like I don't belong in this. But I think you make a really compelling case in the book that that sense of being a fraud or of not belonging or of, you know, having somehow faked your way that it's not just professional. It can be about, you know, our body image. It can also be about illness. You know, you have a chapter where you talk about this sense of dealing with

really acute mental illness, but also having this weird feeling of like, oh, I'm not really a depressed person. Like I don't deserve to use the title of having depression because this isn't how a quote unquote depressed person would behave or this isn't how they would feel. you know, there are things like a constellation of terms that everyone might associate with like depression or anxiety or like bipolar disorder, like schizophrenia. But I, I do feel like everyone's experience of them on an individual level can still vary so much that it, it can be hard to, to know, like, if you're kind of completely fits the model of like what it's supposed to look like. So I think the tricky thing, especially with having like a anxious depressive brain is you're already like prone to kind of doubting yourself or undervaluing yourself or thinking like, your thoughts are maybe not as, you know, valid as compared to other people's. So then to then question your own mental illness kind of

feels like, of course you would. But it is, yeah, it is interesting to me that like the scales of depression in our society, it's like you have to kind of be the person who can't get out of bed to be considered like an actual depressed person. Whereas I feel like a lot of my depression has been me living a life, but just like having a really hard time internally for a lot of it. There's this interesting kind of paradox where you talk about like, on the one hand, you have to trust your own emotions and your own thoughts. But on the other hand, when you are in a really bad mental space, you have to question those thoughts to to be like what my brain is telling me about myself isn't true. So you both

have to like push back and believe and that's gonna be a really difficult balance to strike. Yeah. And I think especially with things like depression or anxiety, it's like you, just as a human, your moods are going to fluctuate. So it's like, even if you're a well-balanced, like healthy person, you're going to have days where you feel a little more down compared to, you know, another day where you're feeling a little more upbeat. Like sometimes when I, you know, have had my meds working and things are pretty stable and like, I feel like I'm able to function pretty well. Then if I suddenly have a day where I'm feeling down, I, instead of just being like, oh, you're just having like a day

where you're a little bit in the blues. Like, I'm just like, oh my God, is the depression coming back? Like it does make you question yourself sometimes a little more internally. And I think, yeah, that leads back to those self-doubt feelings. What kind of progress have you made on your own imposter syndrome over the course of this book? And also just, you know, the years that you between when you started it and now? Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't say it's gone or fixed, but I do think I've just come to understand it more as a part of myself rather than all of myself. And kind of it has its own role of what it wants to play in terms of like, I think maybe keeping me small or like trying to make sure I stack up with everyone else is a very human,

you know, desire to just like fit in stack up with everyone else is a very human, you know, desire to just like fit in and know what everyone else is doing. So I just try to remember that it is coming from like a healthier self-preserving place. And then it just, you know, is a bit of a like control freak or like a micromanager in that it wants to take over everything and be like, actually, you don't know what you're doing and you should really like go away or whatever it is. I try to remember it is like a piece of me, but it sometimes has some like ideas that maybe aren't great. I feel like the title of your book is the perfect summary of that, right?

It's an unreliable narrator. Yes, yes. Well, I genuinely felt like this was such a helpful book and so funny and really meaningful. And I know that people are going to really get a lot from it. So it's really it's fantastic. Oh, thanks, Chris. Well, it's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much for doing this.

It's been great talking to you. Thanks for having me. Thanks for reading the book. It's been great talking to you. Thanks for having me. Thanks for reading the book. That is it for today's episode of How to Be a Better Human. Thank you so much to today's guest, Aparna Nancherla.

Her book, Unreliable Narrator, Me, Myself, and Imposter Syndrome, is available for pre-order now. Special thanks to Penguin Random House Audio for the clips from Aparna's audiobook. I am your host, Chris Duffy, and you can find more from me, including my weekly newsletter and upcoming live shows at chrisduffycomedy.com. How to Be a Better Human is brought to you on the TED side by Daniela Bellarezzo, Chloe Shasha Brooks, and Ban Ban Cheng, a team so impressive that even when I doubt myself, I never doubt them. Every episode of our show is professionally fact-checked,

and you can trust that that means today you had a fully reliable narrator. That is thanks to Julia Dickerson and Mateus Salas. On the PRX side, our show is put together by a group of people so absurdly talented that I would actually completely believe it if you told me that they had been assembled solely for the purpose of pranking me. Because how else could you assemble a dream team this incredible? Morgan Flannery, Nor Gil, Patrick Grant, and Jocelyn Gonzalez. purpose of pranking me. Because how else could you assemble a dream team this incredible? Morgan Flannery, Nora Gill, Patrick Grant, and Jocelyn Gonzalez. And of course, thanks to you for listening to our show and making this all possible. If you are listening on Apple, please leave us a five-star rating and review. And if you're listening on the Spotify app, answer the discussion

question that we've put up there. We would love to hear your thoughts. We will be back next week with even more How to Be a Better Human. Thanks again for listening. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you 8 hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series X, available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone XS or later required, charge time and actual results will vary.