How To Destroy Everything - 107A - Interregnum: How to Destroy an HOA

Episode Date: November 19, 2024

Wherein Danny and Darren tell the traumatizing conclusion to Danny's epic battle with the evil construction company wreaking havoc on his home. Additionally, our intrepid hosts delve deeper into their interview with Barbara (the woman who spent nine years in court trying to take Richard down), and Sandy gives an update on her thereupeutic journey. Listen to HTDE on Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. If you would like to support this podcast, please consider becoming a patron at www.patreon.com/HowToDestroyEverything. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello everyone and welcome. This is Darren Grotsky. And this is Danny Jacobs. And this is another episode of How to Destroy Everything. Yes. This week we are doing another one of these episodes where we're talking about things that are going on in the present day as a result of the unearthing of all this information from the past. What is this podcast about though that we're unearthing. Oh, thank you, Darren. It's about my malignant narcissist father who died in 2015 and sewed paths of destruction that were kind of unbelievable. And based on the Your Turn of Voice, just a joyful experience all around. A couple things though before we get started.

First of all, just a reminder, if you like this podcast, if you love this podcast, please tell a bunch of your friends about it. Share it with people that you care about. Yes. We're trying to build this audience and this community and any help we can get in that regard would be amazing. Speaking of, by the way, as you may recall, we took a rather long hiatus, which we understand

annoyed some of you to the point where there were some low ratings that were given to our podcast. People were mad. Understandably, low ratings that were given to our podcast. People were mad. Understandably, I think I- We don't read them. Good Lord, no. What, spending time reading reviews? I could sense that there were some vibes, some bad ratings.

Here's the thing we want to say though. If we came back and you suddenly were like, oh yeah, this podcast is great again, you can change that rating. You can. Hint to hint. And if we came back You said this is no good and your instinct is to make it lower Maybe just don't maybe don't because the higher ratings apparently help they help they help more people discover the podcast

Yeah, okay. Let's get into it. Yeah, so Danny a few weeks ago We had a conversation about a saga that you had with a construction company doing some repairs in your home. And I have to say I've heard from people about many things that we've talked about, but this story in particular seems to have struck a chord with folks. And the thing that I've heard more than anything else is people asking me what happened. What was the resolution? Did the room get fixed, et cetera, et cetera?

We kind of left them hanging a little bit. And part of the reason, by the way, is that there is a third act to this saga, which we did record and discuss, but we honestly felt like it just was going on and on. It was a long Lord of the Rings-esque saga. You're like, it's enough, it's enough. But apparently it wasn't.

Apparently they want to hear more. Yeah, and there is some important stuff in there. So we're going to play that for you. But first, let's just sort of just remind everybody kind of the Cliff Notes version of what happened, which is basically there was a construction company that got hired by my HOA to handle some leaks in my children's

bedroom. The construction company, which I call the Evil Construction Corp, was very rude. They delayed things for months. They blamed my children for the tapioca pudding we found in my kids' room. And then they left on the last day of their work without finishing because I complained to the big boss. It was a big mess, and Danny may have lost his cool

temporarily, temporary insanity. So let's pick up with where we left off and take a listen to what happened next. Okay, now let's talk about the final chapter of this saga. You know what I love is that there's another chapter. Oh, yeah. There's another chapter. You think that that was the climax. I just got emotional.

Yeah, again, narratively. Hopefully it'll work. No, there's one more. So, all right, so now... Yeah, because the work's not done. I forgot, my God, here we have this day of work left. So I contact the HOA representative and I explain what has happened. And they know, like I've been sending them my HOA rep emails over the last seven months being like, these guys are terrible.

They're not, you know, responding. Can I interject for one second just to say that I really do not like HOAs. I have an HOA in my townhouse as well and I could do without them. How did that happen? How did we wind up with HOAs? A lot of bad choices. Let's get back to what you were saying. I just wanted to throw that on the record. So I wanted several things. So number one, I wanted them to try to find somebody new ASAP. Right. And number two, I also wanted to check for the furniture that was broken from this construction company, this evil construction company. And so the HOA rep was going to check on the check, getting money.

And then they were also going to go look into to try to find somebody to fix this, do this work. So already we've got a delay of weeks because the HOA has to get several companies in to do several bids and then try to figure out who's the cheapest. In the meantime, the evil construction company comes back and is like, apparently they're like, okay, we're going to send, we'll give, we'll pay for the broken furniture, but we want Danny to sign this piece of paper.

And this piece of paper says, um, we are of paper says, we were not responsible for the breaking of the furniture, but out of a goodness of our heart, essentially, because we work with the HOA, we're willing to do it. But by signing this, Danny admits that we had nothing to do with the breaking of the furniture. God, so it's like a legal settlement. We did no wrong, but we will settle with you for this amount of money.

At this point though, I'm like, I just want, I just, I want this done. I want, I mean, if I'm going to get the money, great. So I agree with one little tweak to it. I agree to sign the paper and the tweak was this is getting into the weeds, but they were like, it was not clear that it was just like four services rendered because this is the emergency repair company that the HOA uses. So there's a possibility that in the future-

This company could come back? This company could come back. The evil company. The evil company could come back in the future. This experience hasn't soured your HOA on working with them in the future? Well, this is what this last chapter is about. Exactly what you just said you're gonna see.

Oh, oh boy. So I signed this, which is, I'm like, fine. I sign it- That's progress, by the way, that you admitted that they did gonna see. Oh, oh boy. So I sign this, which is, I'm like, fine. I sign it. That's progress by the way, that you admitted that they did know wrong. That's right. Until you made a podcast in which you said that they did do wrong.

It's like, they didn't say, it was not an NDA. That's true, that's true. Okay, so then they get, the HOA finally weeks later, and so this is weeks in which I'm just like, self-flagellating because I'm just like, this could have all been over and now it's like weeks of more delay. The HOA gets another estimate from another company.

The estimate is, it comes out to $275 more than the estimate from Evil Construction Company. By the way, as a side note, everybody should have known that a company called Evil Construction Company was not the way to go. Yeah, so I get an email from the HOA rep that essentially says, because you decided you weren't gonna work

with Evil Construction Company anymore, and we had to go find another company, you were responsible for the $275 difference. What? And this, whatever fury I felt before came flooding back. Well, I can understand that. Flooding back. I was like, are you kidding me?

So, cause like the other thing about the HOA, both the board and the HOA rep is that I had been trying to get somebody on the phone to talk through exactly what I had. From the HOA. Yeah, somebody from the HOA on the phone to talk through everything that had gone wrong so they could understand it.

But nobody would call me back. They wouldn't, there would be no phone calls. Aren't there only seven units in your job? There is. And there's only one HOA rep whose job it is, who works for Allstate, I think, whose job is to handle this. So like, she was not calling me back. That was very frustrating.

So I got this email and I was like, first of all, I didn't choose to stop working for them. They stopped working for me. I choose to highlight the pudding as unacceptable. That's all I did. That's what I did. Now I did say, well, we'll get to it in a second. So then they sent an email back being like,

well, your version of events is very different than theirs. And frankly, we've never had a problem with them before in all the work we've done with them. And they're very nice and they're willing to pay for the furniture and for the work that they started to do the last day and didn't complete. And so it was very much basically saying, we hear you, we believe them.

We believe you. We think you're the asshole. Yes, which as we said at the end of chapter one of this with my wife, that that is a huge fear of mine. But now it's writ large, because now it's not just my wife, but the world in general is the substitute for this HOA board and the HOA. And I'm starting to realize as this is going on

that this is my biggest fear with the podcast. Which is that I tell the world about my dad and then the world says, I think it's you. You're the asshole. We're siding with him and I think it's you. It's less that like, oh, I'm gonna realize that I'm much more like my dad than I thought. I don't think that that's true,

but it's that I'm gonna, it's that, it's that, right? Like they're not gonna believe you. They're not gonna believe me, and that's what's happening. And what happens a lot with people like my dad is that like, and frankly, the people like Evil Construction Corp, is that like, they're triggering me. I realize that I'm reacting in an outsized manner,

that from the outside seems like, oh my God, this guy's unhinged. And then behind the scenes, this guy's unhinged. And then behind the scenes, this guy's probably talking to the HOA rep being like, yeah. Can you imagine this guy? It was just really bad. And he almost assaulted our construction guy, grabbing his phone, whatever they're saying.

Of course. And the HOA is like, oh God, yeah. We've never had a problem with you before. And so who's the- It's a classic like this school bully, there was a first punch, nobody sees it, and then you react with a punch, and everybody sees you going crazy on that person.

I think it's you. I emailed the HOA back and I said, well, it's strange to me that our version of events is different because no one's ever talked to me to hear my version of events. And I said, also, I went to their Yelp thing, and I put a scathing review on the Yelp. And it's like, on their Yelp- I'd love to read that, by the way. On their Yelp page, every time there's like a scathing review on the Yelp and it's like on their Yelp I'd love to read that. On their Yelp page every time there's like a

scathing review because one of the things I realized is oh there's a ton of one-star reviews and they're all saying same things about this guy, about being rude, about always having an excuse, about delays, about everything and that every time there's a scathing review this company writes back basically being like you're crazy like this is what really happened. And so, but what I did was I copy and pasted a bunch of these Yelp reviews into this email to the board and to the HOA being like,

hey, here's a sample of what's on there. I encourage you to go look. Love it. And then eventually they- You brought receipts. Yeah, but they wrote back and they were like, oh, well you sent an email to us dated July 8th and July 12th being like,

and this is true, where I said like, just an FYI, like my family and I do not feel comfortable with anyone from this company ever being in our house again as sort of proof that like, oh, I had ended this relationship. But what really happened was I was sort of saying like, oh, you can't dump me, I'm gonna dump you. Like they had already left, they had already decided.

So I crafted another big long email where again, there's another part to this where there's like, there's an insurance claim going on that they wanted me to do. And part of this email, I was like, you want me to do this insurance claim? Well, you should pay this $275. Like if you want me to make any effort

to do this insurance claim. But I didn't send the email. I wrote this long email. Then I called my brother, who is a lawyer, just to get his advice. And then he was like, I would just put in the following, something like, can you please forward me the relevant section from the HOA governing document that says, if a contractor refuses service on an apartment or a condo, that that condo is responsible for any costs. Let me just quickly interject here to say how remarkable it is that your brother, the lawyer and you, the two sons of Richard Jacobs, are here, we're conspiring together on how to deal indignantly with this injustice.

What's also really interesting is that we're the two sides of my dad. My brother is the kind of legal perspective, that aspect of how my dad viewed the world. And I am the rage. Yes, yes, you're right. In this scenario, I am the rage. I am the id. Which is just as hard for me to wrap my brain around.

My brother had me put that line in, which I thought was really smart. And he was like, so that I can talk about it with my lawyer, is what he said I should write. He's like, you can give it a shot. So I did that. And then they came. And he was like, so that I can talk about it with my lawyer is what he said I should write. He's like, you can give it a shot. So I did that. And then they came back and they're like,

all right, we're gonna pay the $275 fee. And it all- This is the power of the law, man. And it got all worked out. And now the work is done. My kids are in two separate bedrooms, except, well, there's one other problem, but it's not relevant to this.

But that's the last part of this. And I realized again, that the big thing for me was the world here is not believing me. And that's the other huge thing that is so hard for me to deal with. Yeah. I'll tell you what, I'm not sure that I believe you now. What if you lose me in this podcast?

Oh man, I'm going to end up in a dark place if that happens. I was suddenly on Richard's side. I'm like, I don't know, Danny, you might be the asshole. I mean, yeah, like the, I think the, the insight though, that you had in terms of you not being believed and you being the asshole yeah is is really something because it speaks to this fear that I can tell is so primal for you going back to your childhood with your dad yeah and it's it's like well your dad did so many crazy things as our listeners are starting to our as our listeners are starting to, as our listeners know,

that it almost, when you tell people about this, it makes you sound crazy. It couldn't possibly. Well, and then remember what my mom has said, which is that she also has this fear that she's not gonna be believed, and she wasn't believed at some point. That's right, that was in episode four.

That is one of the weird consequences to this relationship with my dad, this fear. Well, this is something, I guess, that you hear about in the world and in culture, right? Which is that, like, you are made to feel like you're the crazy one. Yeah. And people look at you like you're the crazy one

when you're actually like, no, no, no, guys, this is what's happening. Yeah. I think that's a feeling that we all have at times. This episode is sponsored by HelloFresh. Darren, the holiday season is nigh. Jingle bells, baby. Oh, boy.

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That's 10 free HelloFresh meals. Just go to HelloFresh.com slash free destroy. HelloFresh, America's number one meal kit. Okay, so next up, Danny, last week in our episode, we spoke with this woman, Barbara, who had this remarkable endless saga with your father. And that was sort of the main subject

from her interview that we used last week. However, the interview got into a lot more than that. And it kind of opened our eyes to the fact that even though we've been spending so much time investigating your dad and all that he did, there's still so much more that we are only now becoming aware of and frankly don't know. Yeah.

And so what we thought we might do is play some more of that interview with a lot of the other things that she talked about. Yeah, now we should say by the way that there's some stuff in there that we really simply cannot corroborate. So we're not going to include everything because some of the things that she's are so outlandish, so crazy that that we just we didn't feel like it was responsible to include them right now. We're still working on trying to find out if if any of this stuff has validity and if so we will obviously share it with you. But there still was other stuff that we do want to share because it just

kind of paints this picture of like there's so much more going on with Richard than we even realize. So you're going to hear a little bit more from her as well as her lawyer and the private investigator Patrick McCarthy who we also heard from in last episode. But, I mean, I've heard some things about Mr. Jacobs that I don't even know if they're true. That's why I was so nervous, because I think for the last two hours, I've been just thinking about everything I knew or heard about Mr. Jacobs, and then I started getting scared.

Well, what if you're like your father? Mm-hmm. Yeah. I hear you. Yeah. Wow, when you said that... What if you're walking into another situation where now you're gonna be dealing with another Jacobs? I have to say, you know, when you said that, my heart leapt.

I mean, it is my deep fear and great shame in my life that I am, that what he had is associated with me. You know what I mean? And though I totally understand your fear, it is a triggering thing for me because it is the thing that I most fear in my life, that people are going to make that assumption that I am like him or that I have what he had.

You know what I mean? I can say this to you, Danny, because you understand trauma. I had complex PTSD, so I've gone through, know your father helped contribute to that. But yeah I've had it's like opening old wounds that you thought were dead and you'd never have to open again. I mean I you are going through this and this is kind of why I'm journeying this and I'm giving you this to help you.

And I hope someday, someone does it for me. Yeah. I'm sorry. No, don't apologize. I hope that for you too. And I appreciate the generosity of you doing this for Danny. Putting that out in the universe

that you're doing this for someone, certainly it gives me hope that maybe someone will do it for you as well. Maybe this podcast can inspire that for some people. I have that sort of hope as well. Well, I think a couple more people need to expire before we can do that. Fair enough.

Fair enough. Fair enough. I couldn't. Darren and I talked a lot about how this podcast would not exist when my dad was alive for obvious reasons. You can imagine. You can imagine. There was no way we could do this my dad was alive for obvious reasons. You can imagine, you can imagine. There's no way we could do this when he was alive.

He would have sued me into oblivion. So it is what it is. So let's go back to, OK, so you were working at this firm or you were working for Daniel B. Hayes. And he's the one who told you Richard was disbarred and this was later. This was not during the three meetings with the prosecutor. This was like no Yes, it was actually Dan would tell me little things but Dan was a very gracious man He never said Daniel never said an ill word about anyone if he was one of the greatest men I know.

But anyway, he would just very diplomatically tell me different things about Richard had once thrown a typewriter out the window and it hit someone or almost hit someone. Oh my God, wow. Yeah, and I mean, can you imagine? Cause there's like even from the third floor that would be, even the the second floor that'd be traumatic

but But that hitting someone and that's actually that very story right there is what got me a mistrial during the prosecutors case That's when your dad. That's when your dad yelled mistrial because I did not know that you can't bring up someone's prior history into court. You know, I had not been trained. I was very naive. I didn't know what I could say and couldn't say. And I'm like, this man goes around Ladoo suing little old people. Well, that was grounds for mistrial. I said, we all know because, you know, I'm now in a room full of peers who didn't tell me how to respond in trial, of course. We all know that Mr. Jacobs assaults people and he threw a typewriter out the window for

heaven's sakes. He stands in the Galleria Mall just looking for elderly folks to assault. I mean, I knew that that was his MO. That either he'd get a, he would look for a way to get into a case where he could represent himself because he could not represent other people. When you're disbarred, you can no longer represent others, but you have free will to represent yourself. Yeah. So when you said that on the stand, he yelled out, mistrial? That is correct. And he yelled it. And judge says, mistrial, because he was right. I mean, I had no liberty and the prosecutor was young.

So I don't know a lot about... I'm not a lawyer either. Why the fact that my dad's past record was set in court. Like, couldn't the judge have just not considered that when he was making the determination of guilt or innocence? Okay, number one, you're talking about

Mr. Jacobs who inundates people with paperwork, phone calls. Your father was pushed, given what he Mr. Jacobs, who inundates people with paperwork, phone calls. Your father was pushed given what he wanted and pushed away as fast as he could be. Right. Does that make sense? Oh, a hundred percent.

Yeah, because he never went full force on us until he was able to civilly sue me. And he'd come up with this RICO law. And nothing with your father was ever normal, Danny. I don't have to tell you that, but I can, if you have, and Clayton is very corrupt, and I don't mind saying this, and I would put my own, my name that you know behind that. If you look up

the case, 30 judges recuse themselves, for instance, from family court at a particular case. Your father helped to open my eyes to things that I could have never imagined happen in Clayton and are allowed to happen. When you said 30 judges recused themselves, is that with this case or are you talking about a different case? No, it's a different case in St. Louis County, but you can find it on YouTube. How did my dad open your eyes to the corruption in Clayton? Because he was allowed to just to perform it.

And while- I see. There was like, I don't know if I told you this, but there was a Senator who showed up to our trial in Hillsboro, Missouri, a retired Senator. And I don't want to be unkind to you or to her. It's not about you, but it's about your dad. I mean, they would, judges, people would call my lawyer and say, hang that bastard. So, okay, so, so who, so when, when your dad,

when my dad, when my dad sues you for Rico, in this Rico case, who was representing you then? Patrick McCarthy. So, do you then? Patrick McCarthy. So, and you don't remember what your lawyers were saying about what Patrick was saying about the case? Okay, so Patrick was also a special investigator, a private investigator. And he's the one who found out that your father had 15 social security numbers.

He's the one who helped me speak to an agent who told me a lot more stuff about your dad that I've yet to hear you say. I was also told that he successfully hacked into the Department of Defense computer systems. The Department of Defense computer systems. I thought I heard you say something about he hacked into something, but it wasn't. I was told specifically it was the DOD. And this was like in the, I guess the 80s. I don't know what happened to Mr. Jacobs in the 80s, but I think he had a very nefarious time in the 80s.

I don't, I just don't know. Well what we know is that in the 70s, he worked for the SEC, for the Securities and Exchange Commission and while he was working there, he was fired for accessing a classified database there now We didn't know that anything about Department of Defense if that was if it was a DOD database Or if this is something that's separate that maybe happened later that we do not know Yeah, I was told and I did find some of this information on your site that He would steal the circuit clerk's notary stamps. Yeah, yeah. And he would go to the mall and a cost, like say an

elderly couple, keep them in court until they expired and then take their family through court and in doing so would get their homes. To that end, Barbara, I don't know about the accosting people at malls, but we do know of at least one person who he represented this older woman in her divorce hearing and in the barrage of documents that he would have her sign, one of them was basically, I forgot what it was called exactly, like a quick deed or something that-

Quick claim deed. Put his name on the deed of the house, the quick claim. Yeah, and like that sort of, it was an attempt for him to take this house, take control of this house. So what you're saying, we haven't heard that specifically, but it certainly doesn't seem completely Out of left field based on some things that we do know. Well, I can tell you that this has helped me a great deal

Barbara and and I hope that it's helped that's been okay for you this talk that it hasn't been as scary as that You were worried. It was gonna be well, it about you. And I really want to help you. And as long as you're OK, I'm sure it'll be fine. I didn't mention too many names. I mentioned a couple. But I wanted you to put this name down, gentlemen. This is a lawyer that represented me in the Rico case with your father. His name is Patrick J. McCarthy.

This man cried to himself on passing the bar being drunk. My name is Patrick J. McCarthy. I'm an attorney in St. Louis. How I met across Mr. Jacobs, although I was aware of him for some of his past stunts, I actually tried to case against the Don Jefferson County and some years ago I forgot what it was, something like 2008 or something.

Let's, let's, I'm going to give you my recollection of the events so this makes more sense, particularly to Danny, is that there were some incidents that occurred at the airport where upon this Caused the quinty allegations caused Jacobs to be arrested and he was then prosecuted in a criminal matter Not a civil matter now what she said on the stand or what happened in the criminal matter I don't know the only matter of record was that he was found not guilty as far as I know but any case, one of the elements in Missouri of the malicious prosecution is that a prosecution was initiated without a good basis, probable cause, reasonable suspicion, whatever it might be. And the prosecution,

the initial underlying prosecution terminated in the favor of, in your case, your father. I see. Who was the defendant at the criminal trial, he's the plaintiff in the civil trial. Well I guess I'm just wondering like whether or not you, with your understanding of what had sparked this whole thing, what happened at the St. Louis Airport, is if you had a judgment about whether or not it was malicious prosecution or not. You know, I spent 20 years as a sergeant of police

in the Metropolitan Police Department. I made a lot of arrests, and I know what constitutes a good arrest and what doesn't. I never had enough facts about the case. What we had there was about, in the civil trial against Jacobs versus B-, he made an allegation that the arrest was caused by Ms. B- without probable cause or good faith basis.

The underlying facts I don't know, because I don't think we got that deep into it. Yeah. Now, you said that you had brought my grandparents into this trial, is that right? I think your grandfather, if I recall, and mind you, this is gonna be two decades ago, but I do remember that I was trying to get some information

and your father had a trust set up. Every device known to mankind he would use, with which I was familiar, get some information and your father had a trust set up. Every device known to mankind he would use, with which I was familiar, including mail drops, aliases, black phones, black fax machines, and some of his assets were in a trust, which if I recall correctly, and I'm not only bound by this,

but if I recall correctly, the trustee of that trust was your grandfather. Yes, I think that's right. And when I was trying to get, that's the reason I was trying to do it, but the judge wouldn't let me inquire into the assets of the trust,

and he had hired an old friend of mine, Art Slotem, but he being your grandfather, hired Art Slotem to defend the trust in his role as trustee. That I do recall. I see. So it was trying to just keep these assets protected, basically. At least not discovered by me.

I see. I do know that when I did a background investigation on him, he had some relationship or some cover story on Las Vegas. That part I do remember. It was either an associate of alias, which I forget what it was, on Las Vegas. Did you say, sorry, it was either a what or an alias? An associate. It was either an associate of his or an alias he was using.

And if it was an associate in Vegas, what does that even mean? Like what would that even mean? What would he be using that associate for? Well, what we do background investigation and special services, a lot of the resources we have will indicate the associate's who would be associated

with it. Right. I see. So there was somebody either that my dad knew in Las Vegas or an alias that he was using in Las Vegas. And you're not sure if it was an associate what the purpose of that association would be or what the nature of that association would be. I wouldn't surmise the purpose of that is to get an altered ego somewhere, somewhere else.

Right. Now, why you get an altered ego, I don't know, but that's, that was kind of the impression I was left with. It was actually an altered ego of his. What are you trying to find out? Everything, as much as we can. I mean, this is, this podcast is very much about my own journey towards trying to understand who my dad was, who was very secretive and obviously had a very, as you can imagine, a tumultuous kind of childhood.

So we're just trying to learn as much as we can hear about who he was and what he was up to. And as I'm sort of, I've become a father in the last few years and as I'm sort of exploring what that means to me and who my dad was to me and all that sort of stuff. Man, just hearing all that it's just again yeah it's a reminder of just how many unanswered questions there are still. It's an endless well. And it's like you know help us I know Richard Jacobs at gmail.com if anybody knows anything because we were...

And you know what? Actually, if we have any listeners that are private investigators that want to lend their services to us on this podcast, we would be so grateful because I just feel like even though we've gone deep, there is clearly so much more there to discover. And us going deep. I mean, we're not private investigators. Certainly not. Us going deep is sort of laughable. It's like we make a few phone calls,

do a few Google searches. Yep. No, that didn't turn out anything. I guess we're screwed. We do the best we can. Anyway, I think it's about that time, Danny, when we should bring your mom on. We should have like, she should get some theme music.

Sandy music. Yeah, the Sandy theme. Let's get John Williams to compose the Sandy theme. Well, we can't afford that. So let's just, we'll just have something that was from a long time ago that requires less licensing fees. How about no licensing fees? Hey, Mom, how are you?

I'm here. You're here? Well, that's good. That's something. We're all here. You're still here. I'm still here. Carrying on as best we can.

So, Mom, you edit, you look like you're in a movie. I'm in a movie. I'm in a movie. I'm in a movie. I, that's good. That's something. We're all here. You're still here. Carrying on as best we can. So, Mom, you listened to our last episode, which is called How to Destroy a Career, Part Two, and all about Dad's... the second half of his illustrious career. I would just say more shenanigans, really. The second part of his career was mostly shenanigans.

What were your thoughts? Okay, I think I texted you, we're gonna have to start over because, what you're gonna have to do is ask me more specific questions and not just what are your thoughts. What did you think about the fact that Richard went into the, that he forged documents? Mom, what did you think about the fact that Richard went into the and forged documents? What did I think about that?

I thought, I remember him doing that and I remember one time I saw him over at the photocopy place fixing documents, you know, pasting in things. And what he was doing was it was a hearing that was coming up that he was trying to find out. Richard was trying to get me to pay medical bills. He had a PhD that was in another city and he was kind of... The doctor did? Supposedly the doctor.

And he had a bunch of bills that were from the doctor. So we went to court and he presented all these bills, but I could never get a hold of the doctor. I tried calling, it just was an answering machine. It was too much like Richard had done before with having one phone call go to another, although I called an office that was in the town, but there was no resolving that. I couldn't get past that. You couldn't get to a live human being. Yes, there was no secretary, there was no resolving that. I couldn't get past that. You couldn't get to like a live human being. It was all like messages and whatnot. Yes, there was no secretary, there was nothing.

Okay. Yeah. And so you suspected that Richard had fabricated all of this. To get money from you? Yes. Just to get money from you? Yes.

So that you would pay these like supposed medical bills? Right, and so he came, yeah. So he came in with all these medical bills and in court. And Mr. Patton was the one who was- Representing you? Representing me. Your attorney, Lee Patton.

And at that time. And he tried to enter all this into evidence. And no matter what he did, he couldn't get them entered into evidence. So he was doing something wrong or there was something wrong with the bills themselves. And it was- What do you mean?

Like they knew that something was off about the bills? Okay, what I think, I mean, I'm not a lawyer, but what I think happened is he didn't have an affidavit from the doctor with it to show that this was actually medical bills of the doctor. I see. So he didn't have the corroborating evidence

that he would needed to make this say like, hey, this is a real thing. Yeah, because I didn't think there was any doctor at all. Right. I didn't think there was anybody. Now, wait, Sandy, did you lead this story off by saying that you saw Richard at the copy place making documents?

Yes, yes. Like at a Kinko's or something? Yes, yeah, he was that you saw Richard at the copy place making documents? Yes. Like at Kinko's or something? Yes, I saw him at Kinko's. You just happened to come across him at Kinko's? Did you see the documents that he was forging or you just saw that he was at the photocopying machine? I saw he was at the photocopying machine

and then putting documents in and then doing something and then putting another one in and then he was working. That does make me, I mean, I do remember, my dad spent a lot of time at Kinko's. It's just making me think of Kinko's, which I have not thought of for quite some time. Yeah, there was a Kinko's on Olive Street Road near Ballas and it's no longer there, but he would go all the time

and all kinds of stuff with the copy machines and it's just sort of flooding back to me now. So you saw him at Kinko's and making documents and then this was happening simultaneously or thereafter where all of a sudden there was this fake doctor and you were like maybe that's what he was doing there. Yes, that's what I thought. He was making fake documents and then he couldn't enter into evidence and so we ended up getting it all dismissed.

It was dismissed. Wow. Wow. In that dismissed. It was dismissed. Oh. In that motion. That's amazing. Well, one thing that's on my mind now, a big chunk of the middle of the episode is on this whole saga with this woman, Barbara,

and this woman who had the incident with Richard at the airport in the mid-90s. First question is, do you know anything about that? Do you remember any of that story while it was happening? No. I don't really know about that story. But I do know after listening to it, it sounded awful lot like what went on with Marilyn Corley. It was the same kind of stuff, you know, that went on with Marilyn Corley. It went on for years, 10 years, I think. Tell us more about that. What was the story with Marilyn Corley. Marilyn Corley, it went on for years, 10 years, I think. Tell us more about that.

What was the story with Marilyn Corley? Well, she went to Richard as a lawyer when he was already disbarred, and I think, or was close to it. And then she changed her mind. She went in just once, and I had to do with stocks, stocks and bonds, and she went in and talked to him. And then about a couple of days later,

she decided she was going to fire him because she just had a bad feeling. But when she called him to fire him, he said he already settled her case. And so she said, I didn't get, I didn't, he didn't call her to talk about settlement of the case. You know, he just said, I already settled your case. And then he put the money in some kind of trust account, and he wouldn't give it to her. So that's

what started the lawsuit. So she went, she went and had to sue him to try to get the money out of the, out of his client trust account. And it went on and on for years. He would win something, she would win something. He followed her around. He came around her house and poked around. All kinds of stuff. And he took a part of it.

If it got dismissed, he would go to the next court and file an appeal. And she had one appeal that she attempted to do herself, like a response to an appeal. And she did, I don't know what happened with that, but she worked on it. She had an attorney helping her. She tried to do it herself for a while. It. You know, it was a real big, it just lasted for years and it made her nuts. And Marilyn was the woman who invited you

to join the support group. The support group that was comprised of people that had been sued by my dad. Yeah, she was like the head of that. She was like the creator of it. Yeah. Which we are still looking for other members. Yeah, well I don't know if you're gonna find them

because they're all, they would be like 85 or 90. Well, you know, people live long lives. Listeners, if there's anyone out there who knows anything about the support group, I know Richard Jacobs at gmail.com. Please, please reach out. We're desperate. Another question I had not related to the last episode is, Mom, you had said that you were going to try to, that this podcast was inspiring you to explore your feelings more in therapy, and I'm wondering how that's going. Well, I only go every other week. So it's going, you know, I feel like I'm, you know,

working through, like, it's not really going with my being sad, you know, like we're crying or anything, but it's just being angrier. You're getting angrier? I'm getting angry at the thing when we start talking about things. When you and I and Darren are on the podcast start talking about things, you get angry? No, I get angry when I'm going through my past, my therapy, and then I get angry at the person that I'm talking about. What kind of things are you getting angry about?

The way your grandmother treated me at the time of the Bar Mitzvah. And then the things that did, oh, I shouldn't use it. That's okay, we can bleep it out. Okay. Trying to get me to be with them on Mother's Day, on holidays where I was supposed to be with Danny, with you, and... Wait, what was it that...

Sorry, what is it that you're referring to? She once called and left a message on my answering machine saying that it was supposed to be for you when she said, this message is for Danny. And then she said, I want you to know I'm having a brunch for Mother's Day for Sylvia, and I want you to know that your brother is going to be there. And then she... My dad, yeah. Yeah.

Wait, what? No, no, no, your brother is going to be there. Oh, my brother. So she was basically inviting you, not Sandy, to join your brother and your grandmother and presumably your father at this Mother's Day brunch. Excluding you, Sandy. Is that what I'm hearing? Yes. On Mother's Day. On Mother's Day.

Uh-huh. Oh, man. And that really got to me. What did we- That really hurt me. Did I go? Well, we talked about it. You felt like you wanted to go. And so, like you said, I'll stay with you as long as I can.

And then when we're finished, you drop me off. And so it didn't matter what time, you know, if we had to be completely finished, like the game plus pizza with them. And then I dropped you off. Oh, that's pretty good, Danny. I think you're trying to- Danny for the win one more time.

Come up with a solution. Yeah. Really trying to please everybody. Yeah. Well, that's the thing. Yeah. Um, so, so in therapy, you're talking about how you got angry at Karen for, for organizing that. Yes, because it's like she, and then sometimes I called her up.

One time I called her up and I remember I wanted to get pictures of your brother, and I, because Richard refused to give me any pictures. And as he was growing up, I didn't have anything. And, and so he, I asked her and she said, why don't you just ask him? And I thought that she knows better than that. I can't ask him. And so when we had the Bar Mitzvah, I couldn't even get pictures from the Bar Mitzvah. This is your brother's Bar Mitzvah. And I couldn't get pictures because Richard wouldn't give me any. So I called up the photographer and I asked him if I could

get some pictures and I'll pay for it. And he said, Richard had told him that if he gave me any pictures from M***** Bar Mitzvah, he was gonna sue the photographer. Wow. So I didn't. Can I make an observation, mom? Which is that, you know, it's interesting to me that as you're kind of coming more into focus in terms of your connection to your anger, that so far at least, it's all the people other than dad. That's true.

Like the main, it seems to me the most obvious direction, destination for your anger would be dad. But you're talking about all these other people. And I'm just wondering what you think about that. Yes, I am thinking about that. I don't, it's funny, I'm not really, I don't get mad at him. That's so interesting, mom. Is that because, yeah, go ahead.

He's, because he's mentally ill. I was just gonna say that. God, that's so. It's almost like you're like, mom. Is that because, yeah, go ahead. Because he's mentally ill. I was just gonna say that. My God, that's so- It's almost like you're like, he can't help it, but these other people, they could. That's right. And so I'm really mad at those other people, but not so much at dad.

Am I the only one that is angry at my dad? I just- No, I'm a little pissed at your dad. I'm a little bit pissed at your dad. I mean, speaking of him being mentally ill, in this episode last week, you heard that he was not like officially diagnosed, but he was evaluated and they said that he had all these traits that are consistent with narcissistic personality disorder. Like, you know, do you think that he was a narcissist? Do you believe that that is what he had? I think it's, um, when I asked that, that, uh, psychologists who happened to call in when I was working at the law office,

he said, he mentioned that there was a lot of things. It wasn't just one thing, you know, it wasn't just narcissistic personalities or he was also paranoid. You know, there was other things. I gotta go back to this, Mom. This is a guy who terrorized you for decades. I just, I don't understand how, maybe I'm just like not a magnanimous person,

but I don't understand how it's possible not to have anger towards someone for all that. I don't know why either, actually, because this is the first time I even thought of that. I know that I was very uptight and suffered a lot because of Richard's lawsuits and because of Richard and being afraid of him. I was that. Yeah. Were you ever angry at him?

No, I guess I just wasn't. Even in the midst of, even in the middle of this, he's breaking into your house, he's suing you for all your worth. Like even in that moment, you would have said, no, I'm not angry. I don't know, because I can't go back to that. Yeah, of course.

But you're basically saying that you think the answer is no. Right. God, that is amazing. That is really something. I don't know why. Do you think that's because I walked it out? No, look, I'm not saying that you have to have anger. I mean, on some level, I understand what you're saying. He's not capable, he wasn't capable of behaving in any way differently. On some level, I almost wish Danny could be like that, you know, to not feel that anger. Yeah, but then you would be mad at everybody else. I was very mad at Sylvia because of the way she acted towards me.

I wasn't mad so much at Sid because I think he really tried. Sylvia did not try. These are my dad's parents, yeah. Yeah, Sid really did try. He tried everything, you know, and nothing would work. But I was mad at Sylvia. I was mad at Karen, anybody who was like, who could do something and just refused or who was trying to take advantage of me

because I wasn't worth anything compared to them. That's how I felt. I wasn't worth anything compared to them. Right. Here you were on Mother's Day. Let Danny go to Mother's Day. Let Danny go there on Mother's Day. I'm not worth anything. So they were trying to... Karen called you up and was like, he doesn't need to spend the day with you. You can just come with us. Yes, that's right.

That's the idea. Yeah, yeah. And by the way, your brother is gonna be there. His brother is gonna be there. Like that's enticing. Right. Right, right, right. Yeah.

Right, right, right. Oh man. Yeah, I can- Now I'm saying I'm getting angry at the base. I can hear it. Yeah, I can hear it. But it's not at Richard. I have to, yeah, that's weird.

Yeah, it's really interesting. Yeah. We grade narcissists on a curve, it seems. They do, big mans, don't we? Don't we? Well, I mean, look, mom, maybe take up some boxing or something. Yeah. Well, I mean, look, Mom, maybe take up some boxing or something. Yeah.

Well, I've been doing it. And exercise, yeah. Okay, well, I think this has been another fantastic conversation. Yeah. Mom, I hope your continued therapy and exploration of your rage goes well. Yes, I hope you get angrier and angrier. Yes. Up to some cathrier and angrier. Yes. Up to some catharsis, obviously.

Yeah. And so why don't we let people hear a bit from next week's episode, in which we will be getting into my parents' insane divorce proceedings. Here's a sneak peek of next week's episode. One day, I noticed that there was something kind of off, you know, when I was trying to lock the door to go to work at Sid's office and I had to leave the door unlocked because

it was like the lock was not working. It was like gummed up or something. So while I was at work I started getting worried that maybe a crook was trying to, that was a way that a crook, it's lock up my, you know, make my door so I couldn't lock it. And then maybe some crook would come in and steal stuff from there. So I went home in the middle of the, you know, and I only worked like half a day during that time and I went home like an hour later.

I called the police before I went home and I had the police meet me at my apartment. And sure enough, there was Richard sitting on the floor, taking, you know, in front of the house, taking apart the lock. So I caught him, but they couldn't, because he was on the lease, they couldn't prosecute him. Check us out at Apple, Spotify, and wherever you get your podcasts. And if you have any stories to share about Richard Jacobs, you can reach us at iknowrichardjacobs.gmail.com.

Also I'm going to be honest with you guys, we need all the help we can get. So if you want to support this podcast, please consider joining our Patreon at patreon.com slash howtodestroyeverything. That's P-A-T-R-E-O-N. Yeah, we have all kinds of stuff we're gonna share. Pictures, videos, all kinds of special treats for our patrons. Also, please find us on our social,

specifically Instagram, at howtodestroyeverything. You can also find me personally there at Danny A. Jacobs. Special shout out to Spotify Studios for hosting us in this beautiful studio space in downtown Los Angeles