How To Destroy Everything - Episode 8: How to Destroy a Divorce Part 1

Episode Date: November 26, 2024

Wherein Danny and Darren take listeners into a new chapter in Richard's life, a chapter in which he begins to focus his rage on his ex-wife. Sandy recounts the times Richard broke into her apartment, destroyed her dream job, and filled Danny's every day elementary-school existence with dread. Listen to HTDE on Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. If you would like to support this podcast, please consider becoming a patron at www.patreon.com/HowToDestroyEverything. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

These M&Ms are really good. It's nice of you to provide them for us, Doc. You're very welcome, Richard. Sandy, is there something you'd like to share with Richard? You know, I think, um, okay, Richard, Richard, um, I feel like I can't trust you. You do things that aren't right. And aren't right. No, they're not. And they just don't seem honest. Let's stick with I statements here. Okay. I, I think that what he does is

not right. Not honest. Come on, come on. I told you, like the whole thing. I feel, I feel. Okay, how about, Richard, the deed to the house. Okay, okay, okay. I told you that that is just because I need to protect my privacy. I know.

Can we take a step back here? Yeah. What is this about the house? The deed, the deed to our house, it's not in my name. Well, guess what? It's not in my name either. I know that. I put it in my friend's name, see, because I prefer for people not to know where we live. Why is that, Richard? I don't want people to know where I live. It's pretty simple. Okay, just I just find

it. I find it hard. And I want you to feel safe, so that's not what this is. I just find it hard to fathom that you don't trust me enough, right? Why can't my name be included? I live there. Right. So Sandy, you feel Richard not putting your name on the deed. It feels... It's upsetting.

It hurts my feelings. Richard, did you hear that? Okay. I'll do it. You... wait, Richard, really? Yeah, yeah, I'm absolutely going to do it. What? I want you to feel like you're included. So let's put the house in both our names.

What do you say? Yes. I mean, are we a team or what? I'm sorry. I didn't see how important this was to you. That's okay. I probably didn't do a good job at explaining it. No. I did not expect this. That Richard, that would be great. Thank you.

Yeah. I'll go to the bank on Monday, switch it over and heck, you know what? I'll even bring the deed to our next session. Oh, how does that sound? Wow. You know what? I'll even bring the deed to our next session. How does that sound? Wow. That's a, wow, that sounds up. And how does this make you feel Sandy?

Well, I have just designed myself. I'm just pretty surprised. I didn't expect it, but you know what though, for the first time in a truly a really long time, I think that maybe everything will be okay. Wow. As someone who's been going to therapy for more than 15 years, I have to say, I find it almost impossible to fathom that my dad actually agreed to go to an honest-to-God

counselor. Like, you're telling me that Richard Jacobs, the man who once argued with a grocer for over an hour when he insisted on weighing the salad bar container separately so he would only pay for the food itself, that that man is like sitting on a little office couch taking criticism from an actual professional? It's insane. But I think what happened was this. When my mom left my dad, it left him on the brink of a real psychic break.

And on that precipice, he was willing to do even the unfathomable to get back to safety. And that meant getting her back no matter what. Because in his mind, if he could do that, the Richard Jacobs of old could come roaring back to life. My name is Danny Jacobs, and this is How to Destroy Everything, a podcast about how one narcissist, my dad, destroyed his family, his neighborhood, and his community. This is episode eight, How to Destroy a Separation. And now, once again, here with me in studio, I present to you, ladies and gents, a man

who's been like a therapist to me for way longer than my actual therapist, Mr. Darren Grudsky. Hey everybody, I'm buoyant at the truth. I mean, dude, for your nonstop freak outs over like potential medical conditions alone, I should probably send you a bill. Well, I would demand my money back in that circumstance, Darren, because it's been almost four decades

and you have solved none of my problems. You're still here, aren't you? You're still alive. I sure am. Listen, I play the long game, okay? You gotta be patient to be my patient. Is that what you're saying? That's how this goes.

That's how this goes. That's what we're doing here. Listen, anyway, our listeners don't wanna hear this bickering back and forth like an old married couple. Don't they? Do they? I think that's why they're here. You think that's what the show's really become about now?

Deep down, yeah. Wow. They might not wanna admit it, but that's really why they're here. I think that they want to know what happened when your mom left your dad. Well, that is very fitting because that's exactly what our plan is

over the next few episodes. You are right, sir. We are nothing if not Pandarers. Give them what they want, that's my tagline. That is your tagline. You are Danny Jacobs, give them what they want. Sitcom of my life, that would be the meme. The name of your autobiography? Yeah. The ep Danny Jacobs. Give them what they want. Sitcom of my life, that would be the meme. The name of your autobiography?

Yeah. The epitaph. Danny Jacobs. Give them what they want. The Danny Jacobs story. He gave them what they wanted. Yes, he did. Didn't turn out well for him, but he gave them what they wanted.

Well, because it's really a terrible advice, actually. Give them what they want. Anyway, today what we're going to focus on is the first few years after your mom left your dad, when your parents were separated, but they were not yet divorced. Yeah, years, by the way, that represent a real black hole in my memory bank.

So my real hope for this episode is that by going back to that period of time, I'll finally understand where all my trauma began. Ooh, that sounds like a moment for, like, sensitivity. Thanks. I don't have any of that. So let's just dive in. Come with me, listeners and Danny, as we go back in time.

It's the summer of 1984. I'm five and my brother is eight. It's morning again in America, according to Ronald Reagan. The Olympics are in full swing in Los Angeles, California. Ghostbusters and gremlins are lighting up the summer box office. And meanwhile, back in St. Louis, Sandy Jacobs has just broken off her marriage.

Yeah, but remarkably, she was not yet set on divorce. She was holding off for some reason. I don't think that's that remarkable. I mean, I understand that. You do? I don't know that I do. You don't? No.

Have you listened to this podcast? No, in fact, not once. Well, it's evident. I mean, everything that we've talked about, I think it makes sense why she wouldn't rush into divorce. And by the way, not to mention the fact that she had no money, she had no real job, and she was facing the prospect of being a single mom

in the 80s in St. Louis. You know, only a few years earlier, she would have needed a man's signature to get a credit card. Yeah, okay. I see, and you know, and also right off the bat, my dad was paying for my mom's apartment. Exactly. That was probably a pretty significant lifeline.

And, and, and, what was her income at this point? Her job was working for your grandpa, Sydney, your dad's dad, right? So, like, she's completely enmeshed in her husband's life and family. How are you gonna have a clean break? True, true. And also, now that I think about it, you know, I bet my mom's kind of relentless positivity have a clean break? True, true. And also, now that I think about it, I bet my mom's kind of relentless positivity

was at play here. Exactly. I think despite everything, she honestly wanted to try to make things work somehow. Which is remarkable when you consider the fact that during this time, according to court documents, Richard was apparently draining her bank account slowly. This bank account that he had set up for her, I guess, I don't know, to kind of force her back into the fold.

Yeah, and according to my mom, as she was trying to figure out what to do about that, my grandpa suggested she just take my dad to court to get the money back from him. Okay, I just have to flag that for a second, because what you're saying is, Richard's own father recommended that Sandy sue his own son while they're separated, but essentially trying to reconcile.

That is something else. Well, I mean, my guess is that my grandparents, you know, had been dealing with my dad his whole life and knowing how difficult- That's not a guess. That's true. They had been dealing with him his whole life. Yeah, but what I'm saying is that knowing how difficult he was, they basically threw their hands up and were like,

you know what, just go with God. We don't know how to handle him. But the other thing I think I want to just flag that I think is really up and were like, you know what, just go with God. We don't know how to handle him. But the other thing I think I want to just flag that I think is really interesting is that this all this subterfuge is happening during this period of time when there's an honest reconciliation that's trying to be made. Ostensibly.

Ostensibly be made. You know what I mean? Like, this is nuts. We're not starting off on a good foot. No, no. Well, that makes me think of the most insane thing that happened during this period of reconciliation, which happened when, well, you know what?

Let's just let your mom tell this story. So when I first moved to the apartment, Richard said he'd pay for it. And so he was paying for it. And then one day, I noticed that there was something kind of off when I was trying to lock the door to go to work at Sid's office. And I had to leave the door unlocked because the lock was not working. It was like gummed up or something. So while I was at work, I started getting worried that maybe a crook was trying to... That was a way that a crook would it's lock up my, you know,

make my door so I couldn't lock it. And then maybe some crook would come in and steal stuff from there. So I went home in the middle of the, you know, and I only worked like half a day during that time. And I wore, and I went home like, like an hour later, I called the police before I went home and I had the police meet me at my apartment. And sure enough, there was Richard sitting on the floor, taking, you know, in front of the house, taking apart the lock. So I caught him, but they couldn't,

because he was on the lease, they couldn't prosecute him. Ben MGM is an official sports betting partner of the National Hockey League and has your back all season long. From puck drop to the final shot,. the best football game that every fan is going to love about bad MGM download the app today and discover why bad MGM is your hockey home for the season. Raise your game to the next level this

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please contact Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. Bet MGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. After decades of shaky hands caused by debilitating tremors, Sunnybrook was the only hospital in Canada who could provide Andy with something special. Three neurosurgeons, two scientists, one movement disorders coordinator, 58 answered questions, two focused ultrasound procedures, one specially developed helmet, thousands of high intensity focused ultrasound waves, zero incisions, and that very same day, two steady hands. From innovation to action, Sunnybrook is special. Learn more at sunnybrook.ca slash special. You know, I feel obliged to point out here that if your goal is to win your wife back,

it might not be the best idea to break into her apartment. I mean, what the fuck? Oh my God. I know. I know. I mean, the thing that gets me about it too, is just to make this about me. A narcissist. Yeah, which is that I have a pretty serious

generalized anxiety, right? Wait, what? Yeah, I know. Danny Jacobs has generalized anxiety? I'm usually so zen. Living your life clenched at all times? But like, I hear a story like that, and I'm like, of course I do.

Of course I have a generalized anxiety. It makes perfect sense. And not to add to it, by the way, but I guess that's sort of what I do here. It reminds me of something I read about in some of the court documents related to your parents' divorce, which is about the time that your mom tried to call you and your brother when you guys were staying

at your dad's. And he had apparently changed his phone number so that Sandy couldn't reach you. Yeah, and here's the kicker. Later, he had the gall to tell her that he had to change his number because he said my mom had given it out to too many people. Like, it was her fault. Like, honestly, it fucking pisses me off.

Yeah, you sound upset. Yeah, you're damn right I'm upset. I mean, okay, it is clever, okay, fine. But it's also, I mean, I was a little kid and I wasn't allowed to talk to my mom. I was kept away from my own goddamn mother. I mean, and look, I honestly, like, I think I'm having this reaction right now,

this anger-fueled reaction. I don't think I would have had that reaction at the beginning of our podcast. Like, honestly, like, I think that, like, I would have had that reaction if it, at the beginning of our podcast, like honestly, like I think that like, I would have probably laughed this fact off and buried it. But now I can see this little kid there and see the cruelty in this. We talked about this buddy. This podcast, I think this is good, is giving you access to emotions that you never had access to before. And that is also a stark reminder to me, like

you said, that there was this kid there. I think we forget about that sometimes. There's souls at stake. Absolutely. Yours, your brother's. The shenanigans of your dad are fun and funny. But we can't forget that there were these kids. It's heartbreaking to me.

And by the way, as an adult now learning all of this, it's also shocking because I knew you during this period. This was like, you know, kindergarten, first grade, that's when we met and first started hanging out. And I remember you, but I don't remember any of this whatsoever. Huh, that's interesting. I mean, I think I probably hit it well because school was kind of a refuge for me. Yeah, I mean, that's what I thought too. But at the same time, I was pretty blown away when we discovered how much was going on in and around our elementary school during this period. Um, Principal Russell?

Hey, man. Something wrong? Yeah, I'm so sorry to bother you, but it seems that Mr. Jacobs, uh, well, he's, um, he's outside and he's hiding in the bushes. Excuse me? Um, the kids are in P.E. and he's out there just sitting on top of those bushes that we all just planted and, um, and he's just... What the heck? I know, I know. And he's watching, uh, and it's really obvious. Okay, wait, wait, stop.

Okay. So, uh, what do you mean, he's watching? What does that mean? Um, yeah, well, he's watching Danny in his P.E. class. Oh my god. that is so creepy. I know, I know. Well, he can't do that. Can he? Can he do that?

I don't know. I don't know. That's why I came to you. Oh my god. So any advice that you have? I'm telling you, I find this guy so irritating. I know. I'm gonna, I'm sick of it.

And I'm calling the police. Oh. I'm gonna do I'm sick of it and I'm calling the police. Oh. I'm gonna do it right now. Okay. Listen, Ken, I don't want to get into any hot water here, you know, if he, if he sues. Would you mind not mentioning me? Jesus, you know, sometimes even though I am steeped in all the stories about your dad

in this podcast, I still get like overwhelmed by just the sheer relentlessness and insanity of all of it. Yeah, I welcome to my childhood, Darren. I don't know what to say. I mean, dude, did you know about this? Like at the time, were you aware that your dad came to Bellevue and and asked to sit in the bushes and spy it on you? God, no, no, I didn't. I mean, not until our second grade teacher

and our principal told us the story. We were sure what he was looking for. However, we didn't question him either because of his unnatural behaviors. We watched everything we said very carefully around him. We never knew what he was going to say actually, or how he was going to react to something that we would say. Most of the teachers who had contacts with your dad were frightened of him.

I mean, I can't say I'm surprised because that story about the bushes is nothing compared to what my dad would do with the buses. So, and this is actually a memory that I have from this time period. It was traumatic enough that it's really stuck in there. When my parents got separated, they decided on a schedule, right, of when my brother and I would be with whom. And of course, that was just mere suggestion to my dad from his perspective. So, there would be these times when he would want to be with my brother and I, wouldn't be on the schedule, but he wouldn't care, so he would work it out

with my brother ahead of time, okay? And we would be on the buses heading to my mom's apartment. But before we could get to the stop, my dad would zoom out from nowhere into the street in his car and cut off the school bus. No. Hey, hey, what are you doing car and cut off the school bus. No. Hey, hey, what are you doing? You can't block the bus! Open the door, sir. Sir, open the door. Get out of the way!

Sir, I need you to open the door. I will get out of the way when you open the door. I, look, I remember this because I just remember what it would feel like. My heart would sink. Dude, that's crazy. Move! Until you open's crazy. Move! Until you open this door. Boys, boys, come on now. Boys, come on up now.

And then my brother again, who had been told about this ahead of time and knew what was supposed to happen, which is we were supposed to get off the bus. He would get up and I would just like sink in my seat and he would come up to me as everybody's like freaking out on this bus and he would say,

Come on, we're getting off. But I don't think we're supposed to. It's not Dad's day. He's like freaking out on this bus and and he would say come on. We're getting off but I don't think we're supposed to it's not dad's day. Please let them off boys boys come on Danny Let's go open the door to let my son move your car off the street boys boys come on now boys Danny I'm scared My god even something as simple as going home on the school bus could turn into this intense, dangerous, dramatic scene. Right. And also, like, let's remember, like,

this should be easy, this period. I know it's a separation and that's, that's, you know, intense and dramatic, but like, people separate, they make a schedule, they follow the schedule, and they see if they can reconcile. Instead, my dad made it into a war zone. Oh, God. Let me ask you something.

Are you sure that we are unearthing things here that maybe ought to stay buried? I mean, you've asked me that in almost every episode at this point. That's true. That's fair. I kind of think that's my job, though. I mean, you've asked me that in almost every episode at this point. That's true, that's fair. That's fair. I kind of think that's my job though,

is to check in. Check in in, I mean, I do think that this is maybe a little bit different. Like it's one thing to go back in time to your dad's childhood or your parents' relationship, your mom's childhood and so forth, but this feels big. This is kind of like the house when we discovered stuff. And I just want to make sure, you know, we're finding out that you're being

spied on or you're, I'm sorry, I'm still stuck on this bus that your dad is swerving through traffic to cut off a school bus. Like, why do you need to be reliving and reminded of these things? Um, well, I guess because I think if, if I'm going to do this, okay, I don't get to pick and choose the things that I remember, right? Like, I don't get to just ignore the things that are most painful. In fact, I think that it's, it's actually those things that I need to focus on. Like I need to sit in the discomfort of the most painful things so that

I can move on, you know? Yeah. Yeah, no, that makes sense. Well, then why don't you and I take a deep swim in that discomfort by talking about one of the more bizarre aspects of this time in your life, which involves a character who we have met before in the podcast, but now takes on a more central role, and that is your dog. Oh, poor Socrates Jacobs.

Hey, we first met Saki, Saki, right? That's what you called her. Yeah, that's what I called her. Back in episode three, when she was getting to know a neighbor's dog in the biblical sense. Oh, you gotta be kidding me. Hey, hey, hey, get, get your dog off! God, no! Yeah, and by the way, from that experience,

she would go on to have a puppy. As one does. Who we named Plato. And by the way, the names always get me, Socrates and Plato, like it makes it sound like your dad was, I don't know, super into Greek philosophy, but he- Never, never, not at all. I mean, this was purely, you know,

performative pseudo-intelligence. Yes, that's exactly right. You know what it was like? It's like the Mensapin. Oh God, which he wore all the time. Yes, and would bring up in conversation, blah, blah, blah. Anyway, Socrates became a big point of contention in this, like, trial separation period,

because the plan was for the dark to go back and forth between your mom and dads, along with you and your brother. Yes. Richard was constantly criticizing me when I would return the dog because it wasn't, I don't know, it wasn't brushed or it wasn't, or there was something wrong. And then it came to where he would say to R. I said I wasn't going to take the dog. And then that's how the whole thing with R**k started. Because he said, R**k's not going to come unless you take the dog.

And I think I tried it, taking it. Every time I took the dog, there was fights with Richard about the dog. And so I just couldn't do it anymore. any knees or? The Scorebet, trusted sports content, seamless sports betting. Download today. 19 plus, Ontario only. If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or the gambling of someone close to you, please go to ConnixOntario.ca.

Light up Black Friday with Freedom Mobile and get 50 gigs to use in Canada, the US, and Mexico for just $35 a month for 18 months. Plus, get a one-time gift of five gigs of Roam Beyond Data. Condition supply details at freedommobile.ca. So your mom would sometimes kennel the dog and other times she didn't want to take Socrates at all. Yeah, and that's actually partly because her,

when Saki had her puppy, my mom's apartment complex wouldn't even allow more than one dog, so she had no choice. Right, and then this turned into a major sticking point for you and your brother. Yeah. Well, we were apparently mad about going to my mom's house because we couldn't be with the dog. So... Right. But, you know, isn't it possible that that anger about the dog was maybe being fueled by your dad? Interesting. I mean, let me say that I don't exactly remember any of this. So there's that. But I will say that based on some of the court documents that I've read,

I think you're 100% right. Do you think, Sandy, that that was his plan with that dog thing all along? Was that like he, could he have been making the dog thing this big issue in the hopes that you would not want the dog so that he could then say mom won't take the dog I think yes yeah I think it was yeah look at this I were eight episodes in Danny and you've you got me thinking now like you I'm looking for the'm looking for the deep state conspiracy theory of what your dad was up to.

Yeah. Now, while all of this is going on with the separation and the daily drama, your mom is still trying to, you know, like, live her life. Yeah, I mean, she was actually painting a lot during this time, trying to express herself creatively. Not to mention the fact that in addition to the couple therapy she was going to with your

dad, she was working on herself also. She was going to a separate counseling group. Yeah, and in fact, those two things collided when a woman in that group who worked in advertising saw one of my mom's paintings and was so impressed, she actually offered her a job. This is pretty amazing. Yeah. And in fact, to understand just how amazing this is for your mom in particular, I think there's a story we need to go back in time to hear.

Was there ever a time when you wanted to be a cartoonist? Yes. Can you tell us about that? Okay, so when I was in seventh grade, they had an art class at the Kansas City Art Institute. It was for people in high school. I was younger, but I was still able to get in and take it. And it was a drawing class.

And I just couldn't really draw. We had a book we were supposed to copy out of it. I couldn't really draw anything to look really like what the thing looked like in the book. Everything I drew kind of turned out to look like a cartoon. So the teacher just told me, don't worry about it, just draw cartoons. And so I drew cartoons in the class and everybody else was drawing these realistic things. So one day, Walt Disney was visiting at the Kansas City Art Institute because he used to go there.

And he came to our class and he walked through and looked at all the kids, their work. And when he came to mine, he really liked it and he signed it for me. He didn't sign anybody else's. And so I went home and I had it. I still have it today, that picture with the signature. How did that feel?

It felt really good. Yeah. I mean, I couldn't believe it. I just felt it was really exciting. And so my dad and my mom, they framed it real nicely. And I've had it ever since. And so you? It was at Richard's house. Yeah, I know. I ever since. And so you- It was at Richard's house.

Yeah, I know, I remember. Do you remember it? Yeah, and there was a question and you tried to get that back for years and years, right? Right, I didn't get it back till after he died. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I didn't realize that.

So all those years, it was at his house. Yeah, my dad refused to give it to her. Yeah. Yet another example, by the way, of something we talked about back in episode four, which is that your mom was really a dreamer at heart. And your dad was, sadly, a crusher of those dreams at every turn. Yeah, but this job opportunity, through her art, seemed to finally offer her a way out from under my dad's thumb.

Yes, it was something she could do from home, and it could offer her truly a path to independence. She bought me all the stuff to do this, like a desk, like all the kind of pencils you would need, you know, and then she said I could start coming into her office and she would start showing me how I do this kind of stuff. And I was really kind of excited about it. Richard was wanting to know who this woman was and why I was going there. But my dad did a lot more than ask questions about this lady of course. He started following her around and then she got freaked out and

told my mom that the job she offered her was not gonna happen. Man, that's just devastating. I mean especially thinking thinking about, you know, that Walt Disney story. Like, this job, this would have been a dream job for your mom. Yeah, and he destroyed that too. But I can't wrap my mind around why. Like, what was he doing? I mean, look, I'm not 100% sure. I'd say that I'm sure he was dealing with a bunch of simmering rage at the fact that my mom had left him. So it could be revenge. Or, like, it could have been that if my mom were to actually get financial independence from him, then it might be harder for him to win her back. She'd need him less. God, either way, that is dark.

Yeah, but here's the thing. It gets worse from my mom because the advertising lady then called their group counselor to complain about what had happened. The counselor called me and said that your husband is following people around, it's really scaring them, and so you have to, you're not to come back to the group and you're fired from the group. And I was really upset, I didn't know how to take this or what to do. And then, so like what people did in the group when they ended the group was to have like a party, like a graduation party.

So I wrote her a letter and I said, this is still touching me, this story. I said I really wanted to have like have a graduation. So here's some money for somebody to go buy a cake, and then I said, broke notes to each person in the group, like that's how they did it, and then I sent it, and I said I would like it on this day, okay, and then I didn't go, it was just for them to do,

for me. Now I wouldn't go because she refused to have, the counselor refused to have me, I had to send all this stuff to the counselor. You wanted a party in your honor that you were not allowed to go to. Yes, I was not allowed to go to it because the counselor forbid me to go and but to the group anymore because she she said I'm scared for my life and so are some other people in the group. You know, she made it out to be a big deal. Yeah. And so I said, um,

I want to have this party and I'll be thinking of you that day. Yeah. Like that you're having this party for me. Right. So the day passed and I called her up and I said, how did that go? And she said, I wasn't going to do that for you. She said, I told you that I was not going to have anything more to do with you or in this group. You know, so I was like freaking, I was really depressed. I had never felt like that before. Oh God, it's just unbelievably heartbreaking. It is. You can just hear the pain

in your mom's voice, the hurt. And then adding to the isolation she was feeling was that she reached out to your grandpa, Sydney, around this time to see if he could help, because your mom had, for a long time, seen him as a real ally during all her problems she was having with your dad. Yeah, and to her surprise, my grandpa refused to help, which served as this kind of fulcrum point, like a sea change in my mom's relationship to my grandparents.

I really kind of tried, like, I blamed Sid, and part of the problem I had was with Sid and Sylvia was I wanted so much to be in their family. I had a really hard time with that. I really loved Sid more than my own dad. I loved him and I trusted him. Sylvia not so much, but with Sid it was really, really hard. Were you still working for Sid at this point?

Yes, I was still working for Sid. So after this happened with that other counselor, then the divorce was going on and I thought I better go to another counselor. So I went to another counselor and I told him the problem about how I felt about Sid, you know, and how things seemed to be working in the divorce. It seems like Richard and Sid were trying to negotiate a settlement and a divorce with my attorney. And then when Sid would agree to something, Richard wouldn't.

And when Richard would agree to something, Sid wouldn't. And so nothing ever got done with settlement. And I remember going to this counselor about it and he said that they work together. He said there's you and then there's the Jacobs and because of their family dynamic they work together to defeat you. So Sid will say something and then it won't ever happen and Richard will say something and it won't ever happen you know and I just have to realize that because I was so close to Sid. Yeah. It was really hard. He

said I should stop being like that with Sid, stop trusting Sid or trying to get my emotional support from Sid. Yeah. Because his allegiances ultimately were not with you. Right, yeah. In fact, one time I went over there, I had to be dropping them off at events over at their house

and I couldn't even come in. And one time I went over there, it was a birthday, and I forgot whose it was, but I went over to this birthday party and I couldn't even come into the restaurant. And Sid was outside saying, you can't come in, just drop off the kid, or drop off Danny and then we'll take him home.

And so I did that. That must have been very hard. Yeah, but once I had that in my mind, then I had to do something in my mind to make myself do it. So I said in my mind, I'm not gonna ever call them. I had to stay away from them and then only talk to them when they called me

that I would not call them. So I did that for many years. And it seemed like it helped. And then eventually they had to deal with Richard on their own and that I had nothing to do with him anymore. And they had to just deal with them. Want to become up to 50% wealthier? Paying $0 in management fees with Quest Wealth Portfolios can help you get there. All you need to do is make a new deposit before December 31st, 2024 to pay $0 in management

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So join the more than 400,000 Canadian entrepreneurs who already count on us and contact Desjardins today. We'd love to talk business. I just have to pipe in here to say something. Hearing this about your grandpa is, even from my perspective, a little bit surprising because I always saw him when we were kids as- Diplomatic. Yes. And someone you counted on. Like, what is it like for you to hear these revelations about your grandpa? I mean, honestly, it doesn't...

It doesn't change anything for me because to me, like, I see, especially now as a parent, I see the real conflicted place that he must have been in, which is like, yeah, his son has some serious issues. But it is his son. But it is his son. I don't blame my grandfather for ultimately feeling like he's got to take his son's side and not his daughter-in-law who is divorcing or separated from his son.

Well, that's good. I feel like I wouldn't want this podcast to result in you hating your grandfather. Yeah. Yeah. was divorcing or separated from his son. You know what I mean? Well, that's good. I feel like I wouldn't want this podcast to result in you hating your grandfather. Yeah, yeah, I don't think so. And the fact that, yes, my mom was disappointed in this decision, but she, if you talk to my mom today, I mean, she still talks about how she loves him, loved him.

It didn't change her perspective on him either. I think the way that she handled this is kind of remarkable and kind of emblematic of who she is. You know, on the one hand She's you hear her talk about it and she's so lonely and it's so gut-wrenching. But on the other hand She is so strong. Yeah, like she yeah She decided that she needed to sever that bond with Sid and she did it Yeah she you know, she keeps surprising me throughout this podcast like and, and it actually, this time it actually reminded me

of the time she tried to go to that other counselor during their separation. Do you remember that? Oh yes, yes, absolutely. So this is the counselor that your parents went to before the one that we met at the top of the show. Yeah, there's a lot of counselors. So this is- It's the counselor episode.

This might be just pretty confusing, but we're now talking about the first one that my mom and dad found, okay? They did their initial session separately, then my dad went first, and then my mom. The first one, you're not gonna believe this, had a mental breakdown with me there. What?

Wait, what? I actually found this counselor. He said he wanted to go to this counselor. My dad said this. Yeah, and I said, okay. So I went to the counselor she seemed okay then I had another appointment with her and this time when I came into her office she started telling me all her problems and she said I can't tell difference between what was real and what wasn't. I mean it was just

freaking me out. I said oh well can you hold on a minute? I mean I have to leave. I'll be right back. I don't know what to do. So I went out and I went to on the third floor. I looked for other counselors. I went to the third floor and I said, can you help this counselor? She's having a mental breakdown. And he said, I'm not doing anything for her. She's an alcoholic. What an amazing scene that is. I know, right? So I came downstairs. I didn't know what to do. I was just going.

You went back? No, I didn't want to go back in that room with her. She was crazy. So I thought, but I was going to just leave. But then I happened to see a cop outside. So I went outside and I said, I flagged the cop down and I told him to come in that she was having a mental breakdown.

So he came in and he arranged for her to go into the hospital, you know, and she left and he took her away. Okay, so in the meantime, I'm sitting there with him and he kept thinking I was the doctor and she was... I know this thing is crazy. I don't tell this story because nobody would believe it. That's unbelievable. So then dad came in for his appointment,

which is supposed to be right after mine. And they just kept saying, now you need to go. You know, the counselor isn't here. But yet they were holding me, you know, for me to talk to them, you know. So finally I just said, no, I'm the patient. She's the counselor. And then I left. So then finally, so three days later, you're not gonna finally I just said, no, I'm the patient, she's the counselor, and then I left.

So then finally, so three days later, you're not gonna believe this, this is really funny, I got a phone call from the hospital, they can keep him for three days or something. They called me up and they said, do you think your patient is ready to leave the hospital? Oh my God. And I said, no, I don't think so.

You did? Yeah. Oh my God. I love that story so much. It's amazing. It's amazing. You know, sometimes it's like Sandy Jacobs has this hidden superpower. Totally. Little Sandy Jacobs has this remarkable strength to deal with things that would crush most

of us. Yeah. Yeah. And you don't see it on the surface as a thing, but it's there deep down. Yes, which is why, by the way, that conversation we had with her the other day, I think was so interesting. Yeah, I guess. It makes me kind of down.

Oh no. Why, why? I guess because it's like reminding me all this stuff, and I've not thought about, I mean, I put it all off. I didn't think about it for years. And then it all off. I didn't think about it for years. And then it makes me kind of down to think about it. What, why? But I mean, you're through it.

Yeah, but I didn't, I kind of put it all out of my mind. I didn't, you know, I haven't been thinking about it for years, you know? And then all of a sudden I'm thinking about it. Well, I think that's probably how you survived. By putting it out of my mind? Yeah. I think so. Now, how do I get out of thinking about it now?

Well, what is it that you're thinking? What is it that's troubling you? It's overwhelming. The whole thing is so overwhelming. I just, you know, it's like, it's like weighing down on me. And I, you know. Even today, even now. Right now, I feel it right now. Yeah, I feel it like overwhelmed. How are you gonna deal with that Richard lawsuit

that you got hanging over your head? You don't, Sandy. There's no lawsuit hanging over your head. Yeah, but Darren, I think, I think, I think it's really something to me that even now, after all these years, decades later, when there is no lawsuit, when there is no living, breathing body, that even just this little discussion

that my mom, that it has that weight still, I think it goes to a lot of what we're talking about in this podcast, which is this long tale of who my dad was and what he wrought and how it trickles into generations and decades and it's really something. It is. Yeah. It is. I'm sorry, Sandy.

I know. Well, I'll have to watch some movies tonight or something. I just feel, oh. Maybe the thing though to do is to not do what you've always done your whole life, which is to sit in it. I mean, that's what this podcast is for me partly is, is sitting in this stuff and seeing what happens when I do that. I mean, there used to be a real danger for you in sitting in it because you needed to do everything

humanly possible to just make the next day work. You know what I mean? But the danger isn't imminent anymore, so you don't need to do that anymore. So maybe the way to defang this cobra is to actually sit in it and realize that it's not as powerful as you think it is. Yeah, it's just that it's there.

I mean, I can feel it now. It's, yeah. Yeah. I guess what I'm saying though is it's there. And the longer that you can sit in it, this is easier said than done, but the longer that you can sit in it, this is easier said than done, but the longer that you can sit in it, the more you might realize that it being there,

that it doesn't have the power that you're giving it. Yeah. Well, then I have to still get out of it, have the feeling of sitting in it. Yeah. And you don't have the faith that that would happen naturally? It probably, once I hang up on this, and then I get on with maybe watching TV, watching the news, maybe I would feel better.

Well, sure. But that's, again, but that's again, that's sort of the opposite of what I'm suggesting. Yeah. No, I can't just sit in it. I've got to go on. You can't, you got to go on. Well, look, mom, I think that's your superpower.

I mean, that is, I think about everything that you went through and like what you just said, I can't, I've got to go on is the way that this, that you were able to actually live Any kind of semblance of a life? Yeah. Yeah. I mean there's an upbeat thought for you Sandy Which is that you endured what I think would have broken most people in part because of this thing that Danny just said that you you are able to Say I can't sit in it. I've got to just go on and you did and you are able to say, I can't sit in it,

I've got to just go on, and you did. And you are, and here you are. Yeah, so I think I have to do it again. I have to go on and not sit in it, and not to allow myself to feel depressed about being overwhelmed by it. Because it's so much. It's so much that's overwhelming.

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Visit connexontario.ca. Okay, so Danny, now here we are back in the studio and listening to that conversation. I'm curious where you're at with it now. I mean, I still think I'm right. I think she should probably spend some time thinking about all this rather than avoiding it. Yeah, I mean, it's interesting. It brings me back to what we're doing in this episode, kind of digging in to shed light

on this time in your life that you kind of blocked out and I'm realizing this whole debate, you know, like, do you sit in the muck or do you, you know, kind of avoid it? That's this podcast, really. And it's so interesting that you and your mom are on opposite sides of that debate, right? Your mom has this attitude, and I don't mean to be reductive about baby boomers, but it seems to be common among her generation to just kind of like sweep under the rug, buck up, you know, don't think about it. Very Midwestern too. True, true, but that certainly does not align with like today's approach to mental health. But then again, to turn back around, it did help her get through some unimaginably tough times. So I guess I just want to like push back a

little bit on you and ask, what if, I mean is it possible that maybe she is a little bit right? Yeah, it's a great question. I mean, I don't know. You know what, I'd love to know how an actual mental health professional might answer that. You know, we're doing a podcast here. I bet we could find... Oh, well you know what, Maybe we should just ask my therapist. Oh, that's a great idea. Well, I would say that it depends on the person. When I think about Danny as an individual,

I think to myself, for someone like him, being able to go back and reconstruct and understand what happened is incredibly helpful for him because he already feels it. He already knows it. Wow. Yeah. You know, he senses it. His body knows it in so many ways. And yet he has a hard time fully believing how traumatized he's been. Yeah.

And so I think for someone like you, Danny, I think it's incredibly powerful. But for someone like your mom, who might be in a way saying without saying it, you know, I'm okay. My life's okay without doing that. Like I'm functioning just fine. I'm okay to just kind of go and watch TV. I don't need to do that. I think that's okay for her. Yeah.

Well, what, what is ringing very true to me when, when, um, when you're talking about how I know it in my body, you know what I mean? Like, I think about my sort of nervous, like biting my nails and like how I emotionally eat a snack at night. Like, I actually think a lot of that is my body sort of crying out to me,

hey, you know, you gotta figure figure, you got to deal with this, you got to focus on this, or it's just going to come out in these other ways. Yeah, that's right. That's right. It's like, what we can't consciously think about, we often express in these sort of indirect or sideways ways or symptoms. Yeah. And so what can be thought about, then we don't necessarily have to do that anymore. It doesn't always relieve the symptoms, but sometimes it does.

And so when you're raised, where you're being traumatized, first of all, you were raised in an environment where, it was just, it was explicitly denied. And you're also having to sort of deny it yourself because the reality is just too painful and scary. Yeah. And so, yes, you do have to kind of push it down.

Yeah. And yet all the same, you still are knowing it. You know, I feel like we keep doubting ourselves that this podcast is a good idea, but it keeps proving itself over and over again to in fact be a good idea. You're right, you're right. And that's good, right?

I mean, we do keep coming back around to the positive. And speaking of coming back around, bringing your therapist in kind of takes us back to where we started this episode, which was in therapy with your mom and dad. Yeah, if you remember, my dad had actually agreed to add my mom's name to the deed of the house and he followed through. He brought it to their next therapy session. So progress, right? Yeah, no.

Not with my dad. So progress, right? Yeah, no. Not with my dad. Then he gave me the wrong address of the house. That's what it is. I'm totally confused. Because nobody knew the address of this house, he gave me the neighbor's house, and then we went to the counselor,

and I said, I'm not willing to go back with you you know with you unless you put the house back under both of our names. So he presents you, am I getting this right, he presents you with a piece of paper that has a house on it but it is not your house. That's right. Is it a fake document? No, you can file a quick claim deed and and he put somebody else's address on it and then he had it that he was transferring whatever he owns in that house to the two of us together. Which is nothing. Which is nothing.

Which is nothing. Which is nothing. Which is nothing. Which is nothing. Which is nothing. Which is nothing. Which is nothing. Which is nothing.

Which is nothing. Which is nothing. Which is nothing. Which is own in Danny's house, which is nothing. So it's an empty gesture. Yeah, I don't know if they can do that now. And his hope was that because you didn't, because you never used the address of your actual house. I didn't know it. And you didn't know your own address.

Yes. You would not recognize that this address was not your house. Right. God, that's amazing. It is amazing. So at some point you found out that he had done this and lied and then you're like, okay, well that's my...

So that was the last straw. That was the turning point. Then you were like, you're gonna get a divorce. Yeah. Motherfucker. God damn it, Richard. God damn it. I mean, I just wanna linger for a second on this.

The fact that your dad made a fake deed in therapy. Yeah, in therapy. The sacred space. Absolute atrocity. I mean, it's Bond villain-esque, I dare say. It is. It is. It's remarkable.

Like a white collar Bond villain of some sort. It's just insane. And you know, this, so this, by the way, is the final straw. This is the moment from which there was no return and there would be no reconciliation. Yeah, my mom served him with divorce papers and the die as they say was cast. Which leads to a remarkable divorce and custody battle that will last, as I'm sure you're not surprised to hear dear listeners, this is Richard Jacobs after all, it will last far longer than it should have.

And things will escalate. Things will get out of control. Oh, yes. And we're going to explore all of that through thousands of pages of court documents we've got. We are going into the courtroom. All right, Mr. Jacobs, let's talk about that quick claim deed.

Tell the circumstances under which you issued or caused to issue this less than correct quick claim deed. All right. At the time, for some time, money had been missing from my cash. I had great reason to suspect for a period of time that Sandy was just taking money. I didn't know why. Just didn't have the courage to confront her with it. When we were in marriage counseling, she admitted that she had been the one that was taking money

from my cash, so I thought it was only right that I- Let me interrupt you right here. Did Mrs. Jacobs ask that you deed the house over to joint tenancy? Yes, she did. And when she asked you and made that request of you, did you want the marriage to work? Very much. Did you at that time fear that this was a less than honest request on her part with the intent of filing for a divorce?

I had that fear, yes. Was it your intention, however misguided, to give her a document to see how honest her intentions were. Yes. So that is just a taste of what's to come in... Darren, that's your cue. You're not gonna do it? Do what? Interrupt me with the name of the show like you always do. What? No, that's... Why would I do that?

That's super rude, dude. Please proceed. Okay, great. Well, in that case- How to Destroy Everything. God damn it. I love you. ["How to Destroy Everything"] How to Destroy Everything is written, directed, and created by Danny Jacobs and Darren Grotsky.

Executive produced by Michael Grant Terry Terry and edited, sound designed, and music supervised by Dashiell Reinhardt and Robert Grigsby Wilson. Original music by Jesse Terry, starring in alphabetical order, Jonathan Kaplan, Peter McKenzie, Camille Manna, Katie Parker, Emily Pendergrast, Kelsey Roberts, Harry Wexler, and Hartley Wexler. If you knew Richard Jacobs and have a story to tell, please reach out to us at Iknowrichardjacobs at gmail.com. Additionally, if you would like to support this podcast, please consider becoming a patron at www.patreon.com slash how to destroy everything. And of course, you can find us on Instagram and Twitter as well. How to destroy everything is available on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. You gotta feel good about that, ma. Yes. Nailed it.

Special shout out to Spotify Studios for hosting us in this beautiful studio space in downtown Los Angeles.