How To Destroy Everything - How To Destroy Everything Presents: Toughen Up - Episode 10: Assisted So-Called Living, Something's Gotta Get Ya and The Punchline

Episode Date: June 24, 2025

In the season finale, unable to carry on alone, Eugene finally surrenders and moves into an Assisted Living facility. He’s not there long before he is hospitalized and enters into a steep decline. Before he passes away, Stephen’s father finds his version of peace with “All we’ve been through as a family…” Danny and Darren then agree that Toughen Up is ultimately a story of forgiveness, with Stephen describing it as a love letter to his family. If you would like to support this podcast, please consider becoming a patron at www.patreon.com/HowToDestroyEverything and please don't forget to share, rate, and review! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Toughen Up. Written and performed by Stephen Caron. Episode 10. Assisted so-called living. Something's gotta get ya. And the punchline. The time had come for the family to stare straight down the barrel of a spine-chilling scenario, moving my father out of his home. After a good deal of research and some straight-up threats, he agreed to move into an assisted living facility in Lancaster, California that was within a two-mile radius of my brother's cousin's and an In-N-Out burger. My father was a man who didn't think he needed assistance with anything, let alone living, but I think he saw it as just a temporary setback until he could claw his

way back into the house and get that god damn driver's license back. Something he vowed he was going to train for after having failed his driver's test, sticking the landing by re-entering the lot to the DMV at 75 miles an hour, among other things. He shared with us that what he hated most about his new living quarters was that it was filled with old people. He spoke with open contempt about those biddies chirping over near the elevator. There was a pool table upstairs that he only used once, he told us, to teach a blind woman how to play.

But the old shark took pity on the other residents and stayed clear of it after that. I don't want to take their money, he whispered. His mood darkened and hit a new low the day he turned to me on the way to the dentist and with the Irish pipes moaning low sneered, "'Why are they pulling teeth out of the head of a dead man?' His only true solace during that time was baseball. Blessed baseball. Thank time was baseball. Blessed baseball.

Thank God for baseball, that's all I can say, because my father lived for the game. The weeks that made up the offseason were considered the dark months in our family. Dad swore that when the Dodgers won the pennant in 59, traffic stopped on Ventura Boulevard. He got out of his car and hugged a stranger. My father thought nothing of bringing his seven-year-old son into a bar he frequented because it was owned by the Dodger pitching phenom Don Drysdale. I was warmly welcomed at Don Drysdale's dugout in Van Nuys, just around the corner from my elementary school, and probably could have ordered a shot if I brought my glove and could have reached the bar.

But I had long since left the Dodger Blue Church of my childhood and found God in the orange and black of your San Francisco Giants. The sworn blood enemies of my father's team. A rivalry that began when both clubs were in New York, and the legend goes that the hate ran so deep between the two that when they played each other, workers had to nail the clubhouse door between them shut so the players couldn't get at each other. Dad was only able to grudgingly forgive me because at least the Giants were a National League team.

My father refused to even acknowledge the American League, saying, I'm not sure what they're playing over there, but it isn't baseball. The same game he taught me as a little boy was the same game we shared when he was an old man. We would listen to Vin Scully and watch the Dodgers in his room, and he would shake his head in wonder at least once a game and say like he always did, Just when you thought you'd seen it all. Most visits with my father ended with something like, I wake up in the night and I reach for

her and she's not there. What was there was a stuffed version of the star of the television show, Alf, which Dad positioned thoughtfully on his pillow after completing military corners on his bed each morning. No one really knew why he held this program in such high regard, or how this small, dragon-like plush toy had cast a spell over our father. But it was something about how real Alf seemed to him. He described the puppeteering as powerful, and once said to me with full sincerity, It's like that god damn thing was alive, Steven.

Within three months, they found a blockage in my father's intestines and had to perform emergency surgery. They thought the operation was successful, but while he was in the hospital, he developed pneumonia and a blood infection. Our least favorite doctor was His Majesty, the lead surgeon in his royal court, who once responded to my sister's question about my father's condition by asking her if she was a doctor, which led us to question whether he was a human being. Our favorite doctor, however, was Dad's nine-foot-tall Scottish pulmonologist,

who I would lovingly impersonate by standing at the end of my father's bed and proclaim, Mr. Keren, your lungs are filled of mucus. Which would cause Dad to laugh and cough up more mucus. In most cases, when any doctor left the room, Dad would usually shake his head and mutter, That was a five dollar speech. That was a five-dollar speech. As he got sicker, our father started to talk about the wars and combat and death. He described a sky filled with enemy fire and how it felt to hang helplessly under a parachute, hearing the sounds of other soldiers dying in their harnesses. He talked about jumping in an ice storm and landing on frozen snow that was harder than concrete.

He described his commanding officer taking a direct hit from a mortar shell and disappearing right before his eyes. He's gone, he's gone, he's gone, he's gone, he said one day, sitting up and pointing in all directions. Why am I still here? He's gone, he's gone, he's gone, he's gone, he said one day, sitting up and pointing in all directions. Why am I still here? I channeled the wisdom of the ages as I answered him. I...

I don't know. After he contracted the blood infection, it required all of us to wear paper jumpsuits, hats, booties, and masks. Dad was struggling with a fever one day and was drifting in and out a bit. In his delirium, and with only my eyes showing, he mistook me for the barber back on the army base in World War II. He told me to cut his hair before he headed over to the mess hall, and then leaned in and said, Let me tell you about my son, and proceeded to lovingly tell me about me.

This went on for a few minutes until the fever passed, and with it, all memory of my father telling me to my face what he could never tell me to my face. This episode is brought to you by Mint Mobile. Guys, you know what I'm not interested in this summer? Hmm, what's that, David? I'm not interested in getting burned by my old wireless bill Yeah, you know I got we're gonna be going to the beach we got some barbecues we got some trips and The last thing that I want is for my wireless bill to be holding me back And that's why I made this switch to mint mobile because they have these plans That are starting at just 15 bucks a month and they give you premium wireless on the nation's largest 5G network.

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Upfront payment of $45 for three month five gigabyte plan required, equivalent to $15 a month. New customer offer for first three months only, then full price plan options available. Taxes and fees extra. See MintMobile for details. See Mint Mobile for details. One morning, as we were touching upon some light Irish Catholic fare, like the divorce and hell,

because that's exactly where Dad thought he was going because of the divorce, I threw a Hail Mary and asked him if he believed in heaven. He took a long time to answer me, but he finally said, I don't know, but I guess being born is a miracle in itself. My father didn't say things like that. My father didn't say things like that. My father didn't talk like that. My father said things like, in reference to my marriage after my wife left the room the night prior, and he pinned my arm to the blankets, quote, Don't fuck that up.

The following day, he looked up at me from the hospital bed, shrugged and said, Well, I guess something's gotta get you. And then he worked his hand out from under the blankets and shook my hand. How are you? He asked me. How are you?" he asked me. How are you today? How am I today? Later I watched him ask other people the same question. After my father died, I stood over his body and looked at the scar on his chin that he always referred to as the night I quit drinking.

I remember looking down and noticing his drawing hand, so still now, just resting on the blanket. Good job, Eugene. Two wars. one divorce, no therapy. I guess this would have been the time to salute him, but I knew that wasn't allowed. Not by me. Not even close. He's been dead for over ten years now, and we're still not sure he's retired. We always half expect to find a bleached claw clutching blueprints at the base of the headstone.

His last service position in World War II was that of a military escort. He escorted the bodies of forty-seven soldiers back home out of the hub in Chicago. 47. The exact same number of jumps he made out of an airplane too, he told me once. Because of his escort experience, my mother once said, Your father and I don't see eye to eye on too many things, but when someone dies, there's only one guy to call. And now it felt like there was no one to call.

Years prior, when the advice columnist Dear Abby died, I remember Dad putting the obituary page down on his knee, raising his head and saying, Well, it looks like we're on our own now. And I knew what he meant. When both your parents are gone, there's a distinct feeling of being marooned. But every time I see a priest kidnapping a family or a nun headed straight to hell, every time I see a small boy being lowered into a hole with his little arms full of dynamite.

Or the parachutes filling the skies over France. Every time I witness the artistry of skate dancing, or the mystery of night vacuuming, or the majesty of comic diving. Every time I think I'm having a myocardial infarction, or my lungs are filled with mucus, or I see someone dead at their drawing table, or hit by a fucking truck. Every time I see some dish towels at the supermarket, just sitting there with no one around, or the shroud of Turin, or I pass the stadium light stanchions of Mission Viejo High School. Every time I sit with my palms facing upwards toward the sky, and I'm reminded that being born is a miracle in itself.

I may still feel marooned, but I could swear I can almost make them out, just offshore. Neither of my parents were angels. I like to think they showed more range. were angels. I like to think they showed more range. Whenever my father said, with all we've been through as a family, I can't believe how great you kids came out. Lisa, Sheila, and I always whispered the same punchline. This episode is brought to you by Quince. So guys, listen, when it comes to clothes, I only have two things that I really, really want. Oh, right. I want them to feel good and cozy, and I want them to last.

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Stephen Kieran. That was a beautifully written episode, Stephen. Yes. They all are, but that you really, you stuck the landing there and brought it home. I was a lot I wanna talk about, but just before we even get into that, just as a writer, I had a great appreciation

for the ending in particular is elegant and satisfying and funny and it gets me every time I hear it and well done sir. Thank you, thank you very much. So you, I guess one big question I have just broadly about this whole thing is, you know, you've mentioned that this is a love letter to your parents, which I think is very evident. Do you think you're also trying to tell yourself something through this? And if so, what is that? I guess that it's okay in a way, like that everything is okay now. Yeah. You know, it's always been okay. I mean, really.

Yeah. Underneath it all, right? But that's an interesting question. I hadn't thought about it, but through sort of that last little montage that is just so absurd to go back also and to be picking like which images to use, even what music to use to counter it. I had to be really careful there to be sure to balance that. I would say, yeah, that's the best answer I can come up with. It's not very spectacular.

Jared I wasn't sure that there was, maybe the answer could have been nothing, you know, I don't, I didn't expect any particular answer. I was just curious. Pete Thank God for baseball. Let me just say that Danny and I are 100% with you on that sentiment. The dark weeks of the offseason. The dark weeks of the offseason. Also, I just wanted to say that, kudos to your dad for finding a silver lining and you becoming a Giants fan. Oh my God, I had the same thought. You know, as a St. Louis Cardinals fan, if either of my children becomes Cubs fans, I'm

not going to be like, well, at least they're in the National League. Darren and I have been just very overtly trying to, I think one of the most important things about our parent experience is forcing our children into being Cardinals fans. No easy task in Los Angeles where the Dodgers are the behemoth of the major leagues at this point. Yeah, they're morbidly obese, I would say with their latest acquisitions. But I was raised as a Dodger fan and the infield didn't change for nine years, I think it was. And then when I saw one of our infielders

in another uniform, I, it broke me. So they broke my heart. And so I felt so betrayed that I, I went to drift for a while and then I happened to be living in San Francisco when the stadium was built, the new stadium, It's incredible. And say what you will about Barry Bonds to see him play. Oh my God.

I've never seen anyone better. Yep. Truly. So that to me, that- With a bigger forehead. Uh-huh, okay. But in seriousness though, it was another reminder of this sort of Americana of this story.

Yes. Right. This bond that you and your aging father had, you know, which you also had had when he was young and you were young, baseball, right? It's baseball, Ray. Right? It's what holds it all together. I mean, here in the finale, you're kind of ending on one of the most classically American of American images. It was our way in. It was our way in too. We, we, that's how we spoke to each other. That was a way into intimacy with my dad. Yes. It was just like we could start there or just share that time together. When he thought you were the barber and asked for a haircut and then told you about you,

what did he say? Oh, yes. I had the same question. He said how proud he was of me. This is very absurd that he picked it out. He goes, do you know something? My son works with Jack Black. Because it was during the Kung Fu Panda years. Yeah, you did some dubbing and some... I was the reader. Yes. So also played characters, but I played off of Jack and everyone else as the reader in the scenes. And one thing that Jack really, I always loved about when I said,

you know, Jack, if you ever doubt your demographic, my 85 year old father, it's like, he can't get enough of you. And I remember, I remember Jack was like, what? And I go, yeah, he just like, he totally loves you. Another weird thing is my dad always loved Cheech and Chong. Oh man, that's so funny. For some reason my dad, there were just some things that just got to him.

That's so interesting. And it was Jack and everything. But that's one of the things- So you mentioned Jack Black. In the context of saying I'm proud of him for sticking with it. Wow. Which was, that's one of the last things he said

when he knew he was dying. he said, don't stop now. He said, keep tunneling. Yeah. He put it in the way, you know, sort of as a minor would. Yeah, exactly. Keep tunneling. Were you playing the barber? Did you play along in the character

or were you just silent? I was silent. I wasn't, you know, he was the one who was saying, just a little over here. Yeah. Maybe just a touch here. And he kept saying, I gotta get to the mess hall. Oh, man.

Yeah, before the child's over or something. He was saying that he was really there. He was really there. But I mean, it's so, there's something so interesting about, and I think you kind of said this in the episode, but that was the way that he could convey that information to you. It's crazy.

He was unable to just say it to you. Something in him knew to go that way. Yes, yes, yes. Through a hallucination. Yes, an unconscious part of him. An unconscious part of him somehow, somehow found a way to get through. That is such a gift that you received. Yeah.

There. One of my favorite quotes. From Stephen Kiernan. From me, yeah. Wonderful, wonderful me. The quote factory was, is when this one teacher I was studying talked about unexpected inner resources. Unexpected. So you don't expect to have this, you know, or even unrealized. Again, like watching crows near my house, watch the way when they chase

hawks, they chase falcons differently. Like no one teaches them that. But when they come together and they tag team hawks to get them out of the territory, but when falcons come around, it's like the whole murder of crows is in on it. It's like a gang, the whole gang shows up to just blow them out of the sky. But no one taught them that. So it's like, there's just these unexpected inner resources that are on board that we don't even know until called upon. Yeah. It's wild. I mean, it's, it's interesting because it's like your dad was a person and was of a

generation in which the resource you're talking about that now is more common to have the resource, the ability to, to speak your feelings, to talk about things that are emotional and honest and open. He didn't have that, that generation didn't have that. And yet, like you said, unexpected inner resources, he on some level needed it.

And it came out in this bizarre, fascinating hallucination. And using what he had, he had memories of the army. He had memories of the base. Cause my dad always said he loved the service. He hated war. Yes. Of the army. Right. He had memories of the base, because my dad always said he loved the service. He hated war. Yes. Yes. No one wins a war. He told me that was also one of the last things he ever said.

Never forget, no one ever wins a war, no matter what they say. But as far as being in the service, my dad loved the order of it. He goes, they tell you where to be, what to do, what is it, because it's like freedom. Yeah. When you're on the base. And so it used, like Krav Maga, you know, it used what was on hand. And that was memories and also a place that had meaning for my father, that he was able to sort of push through

and ride in on that. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Because he couldn't say, I love you. My dad could not say, I love you. He never said that to you? Not once. Did he say, not even in that context, in that moment, like that he loved his son? No. Yeah. He just couldn't do it. And again, if you said it to him, he would growl, that's a big word.

And we always said in our minds, we would think, not really. It's not that big. No, no. But you know. Maybe a scary word for some. Maybe so, yeah. And your dad also was opening up about his experience fighting. That was really hard, yeah.

Yeah, in a way that, because you've talked in the past episodes about how, how sort of closed off he was to really expressing that. Yeah, he just couldn't do it. But toward the end, I mean, things would, things would like, I remember whenever we would see someone on television, like skydiving, because remember my dad was Army airborne in both, he was a paratrooper in both World War II in Korea. My dad was army airborne in both. He was a paratrooper in both World War II in Korea. And my dad would always be like, like he'd be like muttering.

I'm like, what do you, what? And he goes, you try that with someone shooting at your ass. See if you're smiling. Cause everyone was, everyone's like, fuck yeah. You know, the same with, I made the mistake of asking him if he wanted to see Saving Private Ryan. Oh man. Oh wow.

Which was, I came out of my mouth. I remember his answer literally was, now why the hell do you think I would want to do something like that? Yeah, yeah. But I know other veterans that did. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah. Another thing for sure. Yeah.

Um, another thing that just sort of, just a sort of a parallel between, weird, a weird parallel between this story and my, my own dad is the, is here in this finale, there's this mention, you're talking about Dear Abby. And I was just, I was, I was thinking back to my dad's death video that he, that he referenced. And Landers. And Landers.

Yeah. Like. Were they sisters by the way? Were they? Were they like, there was something like that. Yes. Yeah. Which is.

I believe they were. Yeah. Um, but just it was bizarre cause in, I guess it was a different time in which they were much more, you know, front and center in American life. Yeah, yeah. The age of newspapers and they were in every newspaper across the land. Yeah. Anyway, just a little thought.

That's interesting. As we've arrived here at the end, Stephen Kieran, you know, one of the things that that has been a revelation for me and Danny in last season is the community of people that we have heard from, you know, who have seen themselves in Danny's story and now here even in your, in your own as well. Um, uh, I think I've jokingly called them the destruction community at one point or another.

Those of us in. Yeah. Yeah. jokingly called them the destruction community at one point or another. Those of us in. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Those of us. Or, uh. And, um, and I wonder if, you know, and maybe this is even that there's a triteness to even

this question, but I, knowing you, I know you will, you will, you're allergic to the trite. Uh, so I'll, I'll pose the question anyway. Okay. You're allergic to the trite. Uh, so I'll, I'll pose the question anyway. Why? Okay. Do you have any advice for people who are, you

know, and their experiences are such a wide range of experiences, but people who've gone through these various, these challenging upbringings as you sit here now, you know, I think you've given a lot of advice inadvertently over the course of these 10 weeks. Um, but is there anything that you maybe want to highlight now that you're thinking about after having gone through all of this? Boy, this is, yeah, running the risk, right, of falling through

the ice. Absolutely. Just know that everything that's happened to you can be used to help other people. Maybe if I say it faster like that, it's like I'm running over a bridge before it falls out from underneath me. Anyway, try and help me, boobish-yoo. I imagine that image of your mom with the scorpion. It's just you and your uncle. Where'd Akira go?

Yeah, yeah. Bobby pins hanging in the air. Yeah, I gotta say that not only are you not alone, and there are so many people that will understand, and so many people that can help you, and you are not as unique as you think in a way, but once you do, just know that whatever has happened to you can be used to, it can be of use.

It can be of use. Cause I think in the end, that's all we really, really want is to somehow see if you can be of some use. While we're here, I don't know whether that's the case with the podcast. That I don't know. Leave that, you know, it's not for me to say. But I will say that what appears to be the worst thing that ever happened to you can in some ways be the best

thing that ever happened to you. And that's, again, I'm quoting someone else. But don't be so sure. else. But don't be so sure. I would say watch your adjectives and see what grace might have in store for you. And again, you can, did the experience of making Toughen Up change any way in which you viewed your parents? Did you come out of it at the end with a different conception of who they were than what you did at the beginning? Yeah. Yeah. It was sort of, you know, the, at the beginning, just telling, wanting to tell it was like, yeah, just kind of shoot up the town, you know, because it's just spectacular stuff going on in places, other parts, not so much, but, but there were, you know, big, big ticket items, so to speak. But definitely over time, I just, I feel like I've, you know,

I've gotten older, but I just, I understand them more and I just love them more every day. I feel like I feel so close to my parents now and my family in general. I just love them. I love my parents and I'm so sorry, I feel like saying to them that things happened the way they did to you. I'm so sorry you had to go through that. I'm so sorry you had to go through that. I'm so sorry you didn't have enough help. I'm sorry, I'm so sorry you didn't know how to get help

or that there wasn't help available for you. So sorry you had to be so tough. I do feel a lot of times like I just feel for them. I feel for them. And I forgive them. You know, and it does, sometimes stuff comes back and it'll kick in again and say, why did you do that? You know, couldn't you have come up with a different plan?

Yeah. Under the stairs. Yeah, yeah, really? You know, couldn't I have been on the couch? You know, no, but stuff like that will come up, but it's more just, I don't know. No, but stuff like that will come up, but it's more just, I don't know. And I don't know whether it's sort of that, speaking of trite, that old war horse of, well, the more I learn to forgive and understand myself, boys. I don't know if that's it. Because I don't always believe that you have to forgive yourself if you're going to forgive

others. No, sometimes you can forgive others before you forgive yourself. Sometimes you can reach out to others before yourself. I don't always believe that that's true. But that would be my answer. I definitely understand them better and they say the automatic consequence of understanding is compassion. Jared Well, let me say that I feel like this has been so impactful for me because, you know, I feel like I'm on a journey of forgiveness that is a few chapters behind you, you know, and I can see you in the distance. And you know,

because it hasn't been that long ago that I sort of went back home and I wrote that letter to my dad and I told him that he did the best that he could. And that was my first sort of step into that. And to see you, you know, the anger is not there or fleeting and you have really, there's a real true deep understanding and empathy and forgiveness that feels so genuine and deep about your parents, to your parents. And it's a real, it's like a real northern light for me, honestly, of saying like, okay, I can see the next few chapters and where that could get me. And so that's just been amazing. I feel like, um, when Stephen tells stories about his parents, even some horrible things that, that happened, you can, I can feel the love that you have for them and Danny, when you would tell the story of, you know, I don't know,

the cork story from the pilot episode of last season, you know, or any story about your dad, you're amused by it. And I feel like a lot of times you're like, isn't this crazy? Can you believe he did this? But I very rarely would feel like the love you have for him. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Yeah, and I think that's it.

I was going to ask you, Danny, do you feel like going on this journey here has moved you? Well, before I answer that, can I just hear anything that you have to say, Kieran, about what I said? I will say this, and I do remember who said this. It's a story from Brene Brown. And you know, Brene Brown, I sometimes think, oh, fuck, Brene Brown.

There's McTherapy again, but it's not. Brene Brown has real game. And I'm just sort of teasing myself. fuck, Brene Brown. There's McTherapy again, but it's not. Brene Brown has real game. I'm just sort of teasing myself. But she told the story, the question was posed to her, do we really believe that people are doing the absolute best that they can at any one time, given what they have at that particular time? Do we really believe that? So the story goes that she asked her husband, who she trusts his opinion. And he didn't answer at first. He goes, let me go in and think about it.

So he came back and he said, do I really believe the question is, do I really believe that anyone in our life is doing the very best that they can, given this tools that they have at that time? Is that really true? given these tools that they have at that time, is that really true? He said, I don't know, but to believe that people are is a better way to live. So it's a choice to have mercy, basically.

Can we just have mercy on all of us? It's a fucking mess, man. Isn't it? on all of us. It's a fucking mess, man. Isn't it? Like look around, like look at ourselves, look at me. I mean, I'm- You're a fucking mess. I'm a fucking mess. I mean, the last-

Glad you said it. No, it's okay, it's okay. It's up for me, but now feel free to say it. But that's why the last line, that's why I leave, why I cut the story when I cut it off. We always whispered the same punchline. Yes. Yes. Yes.

I love that. Darren, you, you had a question now. I don't remember what it was. Oh, did something move me? Yeah. Like, do you feel having gone on this journey now as, I mean, obviously you're a participant, you're, you're kind of in my role where you're,

you're along for the ride. You're also kind of in our role where you're along for the ride. You're also kind of in our audience's role watching and listening. Has it moved you at all, do you think? I guess only in the sense of what's possible. It's moved my perception of what's possible. For astute listeners of this toughen up season, I think you will have heard me at multiple times ask Kieran about his anger at different moments. It's sort of, I would go back to it a lot. And I think, and that his answers were always, yes, yes, anger, yes, but, and there would be something more than that, or there'd be something beyond that. Yes, underneath that too, but beyond that is the most important

thing for me in this moment that I'm at. And so I guess it is, I don't know that it's moved me in terms of my own feelings and relationship to my dad, but it has moved me in terms of what I see as possible. Kieran, what do you think if your mom and dad heard you toughen up, what would they say about it? Pete I've thought about that before. I think they would have a real good laugh. I mean, I like to think that wherever they are, if there's consciousness, I have no clue, that if they were to hear it, they would feel the love. That I hope people fall in love with our family. And I really believe that, that they can get it

because like my mom said, I was crazy back then. That she had that awareness, all of us, my dad in his own way, something's gotta get you, you know, like this. Saying that, that was literally the day before he died. You know, and that it was like a shrug, like, you know, we did our best and, you know, tag, you're it, carry on and try and do a little better. I think they would, I would hope, you know,

I would, I really hope that they would feel loved. Yeah. And forgiven. Yeah. It's like, you know, and forgiven. I think they would. Yeah, I think that too. I think that is evident.

Oh, I think it's all over it. Oh, yeah. It's in the DNA of it. Makes me happy to hear that. It really does. Cause yeah, this is, you know, compelled to write this. Right? Yeah.

You do it and you have to, I just knew that if I didn't learn how to forgive and learn how to get past the anger, I couldn't really live. Yeah. Maybe even physically, I would find, you know, maybe a darker path, but I couldn't really live. Maybe even physically I would find, you know, maybe a darker path, but I didn't really, I don't, I honestly feel like I don't have a choice when it comes to how we came up. Yeah. What do you mean?

If you, if I want to live, if I want to live and contribute in some way to this life, I didn't have a choice. I had to look at it. Right. I had to do something. I had to live and contribute in some way to this life, I didn't have a choice. I had to look at it. Right. I had to do something. I had to at least look at it. Would I address it, reckon with it, come to terms, however you want to? Here I go again. But that's one thing, but I at least had to see it for what it definitely for what it

is and was. I feel the same way. My, my, my, my, some of my family will, has asked me about the first season of this show. Like, I get that they'll say something like, I get that, but why in a public forum? What's your answer to that? Pete I don't know. Jared Yeah. Pete Well, part of it is it's what we do that? I don't know. Yeah. Well, part of it is it's what we do. Yeah.

Yeah. You know? Yeah. For me, I think it's only possible in a public forum because it's so scary. For me, it was, that it gave me courage to try to do it. I wouldn't have done it if it was on my own, if it was just my own sort of exploration of it. Yeah. And I also felt like, again, mine came out of defiance.

Yes. Because it's like, you know what? Okay, apparently doing other people's stories isn't working. Yeah. But I'm also feel like we have a job to do. Yeah. We've been given certain skills.

So it was like, fuck that, man. Yeah. I really, I mean, I threw down the first time I wrote all of this out. The first time I was like, well, I've got this, I've got my story and I can tell it and they say, write what you know, well, I fucking know this. So it's like, that's where it came out of for me. It wasn't like, wondering if I can somehow parlay my family's pain and do a paycheck. It's like, no, I wasn't doing that. Or like, or the need to be seen. Right.

It's like, no, no, no. That's crazy to think that, you know, all actors and performers, they have a need to be seen. It's like, fuck off, man. Right. No, no. What am I supposed to do? Yeah.

Sit on my talents? Anyone? Yeah. Anybody. That's right. Whatever you do. You're supposed to just sit on that? No. Yeah. You just, I feel like we have a job to do. Yeah. I think that's right. Why don't you do your part. Totally. And maybe this is our part. Yeah. Yeah. I think that that's absolutely true. Well, okay. I think that wraps up this Okay, I think that wraps up this exciting journey of how to destroy everything presents Toughen Up. Stephen, thank you so much for doing this, for coming along, for sharing yourself with us.

I remember when you were on last season as we were wrapping up, you told Danny that you loved him and you said to me, I like you so much and I'm sure I will love you. And let me just say that I love you now, having gone on this journey. I can't thank you enough and it's been incredible. Pete I love you too, Dan. And I love you, Danny. And I'm so grateful. Thank you for saying that. And I just want to say, I'm so grateful that you guys invited me to do this. Oh my gosh. It is our pleasure.

Absolutely our pleasure. Honestly, I think that your story is so specific and like mine, so specific and universal simultaneously, and I think it's really amazing to hear it. So, do you want to give us one more inhale of a cigarette and an exhale to go out? My pleasure. Okay, before we wrap this episode, we just wanted to let you know, stay tuned. In two weeks we will be releasing a bonus episode of How to Destroy Everything Presents Toughen Up, in which we will be interviewing Lisa and Sheila, Stephen's two sisters. It's a fantastic conversation and we can't wait to share it with you.

Thanks for listening everybody. How to Destroy Everything presents Toughen Up is written, performed and created by Stephen Kieran. Executive produced by Darren Grotsky and Danny Jacobs. In partnership with Eastman Productions and 333 Productions. Story editing by Lisa Blair and Sheila Stevens. Music mixing and mastering by Arlo Sanders. Audio engineering by Glenn Eastman. Original theme music by Alan Simpson. Original artwork by Derek Yee. For questions, feedback, and of course any stories about Danny's dad, we

can be reached at I know Richard Jacobs at gmail.com. If you would like to support this podcast, please consider becoming a patron at www.patreon.com forward slash how to destroy everything and of course you can find us on Instagram and blue sky as well. How to Destroy Everything Presents Toughen Up is available on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Special thanks to Spotify Studios for the use of their beautiful recording space in downtown Los Angeles.