How To Destroy Everything - How To Destroy Everything Presents: Toughen Up - Episode 4: The Road to 333

Episode Date: May 13, 2025

After losing their suburban home, Maureen moves with Stephen and Sheila into a Travelodge, only to dispatch her children on an epic road trip with their fugitive sister Lisa. Heading north, the three siblings experience a shared moment of grace on a rainy night, outside of a Canadian liquor store. Then Danny and Darren push in on the fear and loneliness of the children being left to fend for themselves. Danny speaks of The Triumph of Small Things, while Darren reminds us we are all members, to some degree, of “The Destruction Community.” If you would like to support this podcast, please consider becoming a patron at www.patreon.com/HowToDestroyEverything and please don't forget to share, rate, and review! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Toughen Up Toughen Up Written and performed by Stephen Caron Episode 4 The Road to 333 It was about this time that our freshly divorced parents decided to sell the house, and our mother decided that it was a good idea to take our few furniture pieces and put them into mini storage so that we could move into the travel lodge until she could figure out what was next. Mom, Sheila and I lived in the Travel Lodge for about two days when our fugitive sister

Lisa showed up seemingly out of nowhere and instead of driving a Bentley, she pulled up in the green Datsun with the hammer dent in the hood. Mom wouldn't allow her inside, so Lisa stood in the parking lot and told us that tomorrow morning she was taking Sheila and me on a surprise summer road trip. Surprise! We were told to pack light and bring our sleeping bags, and that she would be back to get us tomorrow really, really early in the morning. Like real early. All of this was somehow no surprise to our

mother and she stopped just short of saying, don't let the motel door hit you two in the ass on the way out. Honestly, I think mom was looking forward to some alone time with a certain someone in wet Long Johns. After all, as my father's skate-dancing pass can attest to, she had a soft spot for show people. I'm not sure what qualifies for pre-pre-dawn, but that's what time Lisa pulled up the next day. We stumbled out into the darkness. I got in the back seat of the Datsun, and the girls literally packed around me. It went like suitcase, suitcase, ice chest, steven, sleeping bag, pillow, suitcase.

I was essentially live cargo back there, whose primary role was to keep the load from shifting. We drove through the wide, deserted suburban streets of Mission Viejo, past the empty tennis courts, the vacant soccer fields, and the hushed pools of the Holy Naradore swimming monastery, down to the freeway, and then up to Los Angeles. And it still wasn't quite light out when we met my father on Van Nuys Boulevard at a place called Otto's Pink Pig, which was open because it had not closed from the night before. And we were meeting him on the lounge side of the restaurant, where you could order a

cocktail with your omelette. And we sat there eating with our sad father, and at one point I remember him taking out a wad of money and pushing it across the table to Lisa and saying, go to John. My father had a lot of brothers. Sid, Jim, Mike, Dick, the Dead Twins, but his favorite brother was John. John was also the brother that would show up at your house at midnight in a rainstorm and with lightning flashing on one side of his wet face say something like... I need to lay low here for a couple of days.

Uncle John lived up in Washington State, way up at the top, in Port Townsend. You know, near the border. The sun was finally coming up when we said goodbye to our father and pulled out of Otto's pink pig parking lot, heading off on the first leg of our tour de surprise. Dad left us with the sage advice that should the car start to make any strange noises, just turn the radio up. That's what it's there for," he said.

My two sisters and I, with a stashed wad of bills in a dented little Dotson, first drove west to Santa Monica, then headed north up the coast. To visitors of the Golden State, the Pacific Coast Highway, lovingly PCH for short, conjures images of a romantic panoramic strip of two-lane heaven, all savored at the gentlest, most humane pace you could imagine. And to be fair, large southern stretches of the coast highway are as idyllic as a retro postcard would have you believe. But push north and you become increasingly aware of the prelude to the Vertigo soundtrack pouring out of your dashboard. And should you make it as far as Big Sur, the party is now officially over.

The spectacular views, combined with depraved hairpin turns and an utter lack of human decency practiced by almost every other driver on the road, have earned it the well-deserved title of the Ribbon of Death. Being passed on a blind corner can give new meaning to breathtaking vistas. While taking in the natural wonders, one might ask, is there a god that made all of this? A question quickly followed by, and might we be meeting him in a moment? Rocks the size of shopping malls, shearing off hundreds of feet of roadway on their way into the Pacific, were something to look forward to on a stretch of the highway aptly named Devil's Slide

and guardrails Guardrails bedammed Hour after hour, our 18 year old big sister outpaced the angel of death in our little four-speed, and needless to say, after a day of staring into our open graves, we were exhausted, and only got as far as Carmel. I remember Sheila got sick to her stomach that first night in a little motel, and I asked Lisa what was wrong. She said, it's okay, she's just homesick.

I said, homesick? That doesn't make you vomit. But Lisa said Sheila was homesick enough to vomit. The next day, it was raining so hard, we only got as far north as San Francisco, and I remember all of us crammed into a fogged up phone booth. Lisa was looking through the yellow pages and calling to try and see if they had a vacancy at a particular motel and to get directions. I remember feeling scared and I started to cry, and I recall Lisa calmly resting the

phone receiver down on her shoulder, collecting herself, then punching me in the face, causing me to dramatically slide down the foggy glass. And looking back, I think she totally made the right call. This episode is brought to you by Lucy. So Kieran, have you heard of Lucy? Uh, yes, yes, a friend of mine uses Lucy. Oh, excellent. So then you know that what Lucy is, Lucy Breakers are these really fascinating nicotine pouches that have this extra surprise in them, which is that each pouch holds a capsule that can

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Nicotine is an addictive chemical. Up, up, up we went, through California, into Oregon, crossing the great Columbia River into Washington, and up through all the way, stopping at the top, in Port Townsend. We were met by our warm and loving Aunt May, and the mercurial and mysterious Uncle John. Standing behind her, radiating secrets. I learned that I would be sharing a bed with my expressionless and newly down on his luck Uncle Mike, who had famously lived in a prefabricated Quonset hut for years in Los Angeles. I was also informed that I soon would be joining Uncle John's construction crew, which nearly paralyzed me with waves of sheer dread. As if sensing this, Lisa tactically

suggested that before we get settled in, we should probably go to Canada. Before we knew it, the three of us were floating over the border on a ferry, arriving in a stormy Victoria, British Columbia. As if this wasn't surreal enough, we suddenly found ourselves drinking afternoon tea in the lobby lounge of the famed Empress Hotel. I remember half expecting Royal Guards to burst in and point at us screaming, Seize them! Seize the homeless intruder children! But somehow, they allowed us to drink our tea and knock a few dainty pastries into Lisa's purse, like Mom would have instructed

us to. The staff took further pity on us and allowed a tour of the Empress Rose Gardens in a horse and carriage. A carriage that would eventually turn into a green Datsun 1200, and then a proper pumpkin the moment we later pulled up to the youth hostel across town, where we would be spending the night. I didn't know what a youth hostel was, but I sure knew what a hippie looked like, and there were lots of hippies there.

And they welcomed us in and said, bring de bring, dinners in an hour, bring to bring. And they told us that the women's dorm is on that side, and the men's dorm is on that side. And so my sisters stood there and said, it's okay, just go find a bed. Just get a bed and remember, dinners in an hour. And so I watched my two sisters disappear into their dorm, and I took my little red zippered houndstooth patterned luggage and my thin green cloth bedroll, and I walked around the corner into what looked like a giant gymnasium, and it was almost dark, almost

completely dark inside. And I had to sort of feel my way along the wall until my eyes adjusted a little, passing menacing man shadows along the way. And I found a bunk bed, and I climbed up the outside railing onto the top bunk with my stuff. And I rolled out my bedroll and leaned against the wall, and my back was up against a giant, tinned sign that read,

No Smoking. But out there, in the gray darkness of the giant hangar, I saw little floating amber lights that would come and go. People were clearly smoking. All sorts of things. If they were capable of that, mocking a posted rule that was so big and direct and unambiguous, what else were they capable of? So I climbed down from the bunk and felt along the shadow wall,

past the man's shadows, until I found the hallway where I vomited from homesickness. And the hippies came and they said, Bum, bu-bum, bu-bum, bu-bum, bu-bum, get his sisters, get his sisters. Beep, beep, beep, boom, beep, boom, beep, boom, beep. And my sisters came, and they were mortified, and the hippies assured them, glean, glean, that's okay, we'll clean it up, glean, glean. And so Lisa and Sheila took me and helped me brush my teeth, wrapped me in swaddling, and smuggled me into the girls' side, and laid me down on a little cot. They sat on either side of me until I felt safe enough to fall asleep.

And after an hour, we got up, and we went into the dining hall for dinner? The main course was straight off the menu of an Oliver Twist themed restaurant. A bowl of hot water with a cabbage leaf floating in it, and a side of rock bread. Lisa said, I know, I know, but if you eat this, I promise I'll take us out for cokes and candy bars. And so we forced down the food of the flower children, and true to her word, Lisa said, come on. And we walked out into the dark night, into a steady rain, in freaking Canada, and Lisa

found a liquor store, and we went in, and we got cokes, and we got candy bars, and we put them up on the counter, and the man rang them up, and he looked at us, and he said, in a thick French accent. 333. You're totally 333. And for some reason, this seemed to split the night open. And something akin to grace came pouring down. And everything we've been holding in all this time,

we couldn't hold back anymore. And Lisa paid the French man and we took our cokes and our candy bars and we ran out into the rain. And we laughed and shouted and danced around like a gang of monkeys. We all somehow got the same lucky number that night. In the same moment. in the same way. And any time to this day that we see those three numbers together, we'll point them out, or text, or call each other. And it's always a little bit of the same feeling we shared that night.

Feeling as if, even though we were far, far away from what we used to call home, something was with us somehow, not against us, all contained in that sequence of 333. Danny, I am losing sleep. Oh no! Kieran? No, I am losing sleep. Oh no! Kieran? No, I am. What happened? Trying to deliver these episodes on time is just wreaking havoc with my sleep cycle.

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Go to shopbeam.com slash destroy and use code DESTROY at checkout. That's shopbeam.com slash destroy and use code DESTROY for up to 40% off. Because better sleep? That's the kind of mystery you can solve. Wow. Oh, I love that episode so much. What an episode. Danny Jacobs here in studio.

Danny Darren Kroatsky alongside you. The man of the hour, Mr. Stephen Kieran. Boy, that episode really gets me. When we were just listening to it, you had stopped us, Kieran, at one point, or made a note about that segment in the middle when you guys are in the, when you're talking about the PCH. And just as a, I just like, just to fan out for a second as a storyteller, like what I think is so great about that section, which seems like a diversion or a tangent, I should say.

You're talking about the perilous aspects of the PCH at that moment. Yes. But it's like to me, first of all, it's sort of, there's something very thematically relevant so much about the journey itself. The status of your life at this point, which is feeling like on a knife's edge of danger. And also to kind of as an audience member sort of take me away from for a moment,

like I'm not thinking about that, I'm just thinking about this, the picturesque PCH and then so that at the end, when it sort of comes back to the three of you and what's actually going on in your life, it just is so impactful. I just love it. So the whole thing is just beautiful storytelling.

I know it's real life and happened to you and not to make light of your life story and you can just as this like crafted story. Yeah. This episode is really something I love even that the, um, and I mean, again, this is from the truth, but the Datsun, the Datsun comes back with the hammer, you know, the, the, the

hammer dent on the hood. It's wonderful. So I have a few questions logistically. Yeah. Um, about, I'm curious about. Danny with the logistics. Yep's wonderful. So I have a few questions logistically. Yeah. That I'm curious about. Here comes Danny with the logistics. Yep. Always logistics. Oh, God.

So you kind of hint that your mom knew that this trip was going to happen, right? Yeah. And so was this Lisa's idea? Well, I don't know if it was Lisa's idea. I think it was probably What's better than a well-marbled ribeye sizzling on the barbecue? A well-marbled ribeye sizzling on the barbecue that was carefully selected by an Instacart shopper and delivered to your door. A well-marbled ribeye you ordered without even leaving the kiddie pool.

Whatever groceries your summer calls for, Instacart has you covered. Download the Instacart app and enjoy $0 delivery fees on your first three orders. Service fees, exclusions, and terms apply. Instacart, groceries that over-deliver. My dad's idea more than anyone's because the idea was, can you go live with your father? Can you guys, you know, cause we had lost the house. So we're living in the travel lodge. And your dad's staying in his office. My dad is living in his office off of Woodman Avenue. Yes.

On a cot with army blankets and a 22 pistol in the bottom drawer of the filing cabinet. It's all you need. It's all you need. So my dad has nowhere to live basically, and he couldn't take us. He couldn't, he didn't feel like he didn't have the means to take us.

So then when the house, the house was lost, I think that's when he said, go to John, like that he must've talked to my mom and said, well, why don't we just get them to stay up there until we can figure out what to do next? Yeah, I see. Which is coming in the next episode. So we're basically homeless.

That's how I think of it. We had a roof over our head, but we had no real home. Yeah. We couldn't go to my dad. We couldn't, my mom, we're living in a motel at that point. Everything was falling away beneath our feet. We go up to Uncle John's and then Lisa takes us over into Canada for some magical experience

that we all kind of have, like almost shamanic, like the guy saying 333 was almost like a shaman, a French shaman. And we end up up there. But as far as who came up with it, I bet it was my mom and my dad. Now I will say this about Lisa. We found out later that Lisa was trying to get custody of us, but because she was too young. And Sheila and I probably two years ago sat opposite Lisa at a table. And Lisa doesn't like any sort of attention given to her. In any way, she doesn't like, if you compliment her, things like that.

That's just like Danny. Just like. Not. Much like you, Danny. Yeah, yeah. So Lisa, Sheila and I said, you saved our life. You saved our life. And she said, no. And we said, no, you did.

You did, you swept in and you took us on the road and she was 18 at the time. Wow. And can you imagine doing that at 18 years old and you took us on the road and she was 18 at the time. Wow. And can you imagine doing that at 18 years old or one of your kids today coming and grabbing and then also behind the scenes, desperately trying to get custody of us,

but because she was too young and had no real means at the time, that that was a non-starter. To even have that instinct though, as an 18 year old to be like, you know what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna put my life on hold and take custody of my two younger siblings. Like, wow.

I say what Lisa has, she's the first born, but Lisa has matriarchal heroic qualities, in my opinion. And to always know, I always thought of my sister Lisa as a lioness. Like she's like, and you know, in life, if you don't know someone's story, you don't know them. You don't know their full story. So even I'll even say to her kids sometimes, no, you don't understand.

Jared Yeah, let me tell you about your mom. Pete When I read this for all the kids, Jared Oh my God. Pete all the nieces and nephews, purposefully a few years back, when I finished the basic structure of it. And I remember looking on Zoom, I remember seeing like their mouths were agape. Cause they all knew kind of the lore. But when it came to, I wanted them both to know about their moms, plural, Sheila and Lisa. Yeah.

And I remember there were some questions afterwards. I'm sure. Wait, what? Like you did what? Yeah. When you guys were on the road, I mean, did you talk about what was going on with your parents? Or was that just, did you wanna get away from that?

We just, I don't think we had the tools to talk about it. Yeah, yeah. At least it was just like, let's just, I think the first night, I think we were in Pismo Beach, or somewhere we stayed at some shit motel, or no, no, the first night I think was in Carmel. Don't I say that? Yeah, you said Carmel.

But we stopped on the way in Pismo, which I believe is south of, I hope I'm getting this right. It is, actually it is. It's like north of. If you're not, the listeners will definitely correct us. And I have no idea. I believe it's Pismo is north of San Luis Obispo, but not, and Carmel is above that.

So. And it's all just south of Mexico. But I'm right, south of Mexico as we all know. So, but I remember we got out of the Datsun and we popped the trunk and we all wanted to just take a nap a little bit. And I had to lay in the trunk on top of everything that was in the trunk. So Sheila could, and Lisa could like recline the seats and sleep in the front because there was no way, there was so much shit in the back seat.

So they, so I couldn't, I just, in order to do anything close to lying down, I remember I'm in Pismo Beach and I'm lying like in a trunk that's open across everything that's packed into the trunk, which was not an even surface. And I just said, oh, this is just what we're doing now. And anyway. I think that is such, so emblematic of, I think, these kinds of childhoods that we're talking about, which is you just, you're in this really fantastical moment. I don't mean fantastical as in a fantasy. I mean just like way outside the norm. And you're like, oh, I guess this is just, as in the fantasy, I mean, just like way outside the

norm and you're like, oh, I guess this is just, this is what we're doing now is what is how you go through your whole childhood. It feels It's what was happening in the backseat when we were driving home from Skate Barn, which is I guess all families are like this. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Oh, they're not. It's like, I guess, well, I guess all families. This is the human experience. This is every so often you just kind of lose your parents. Kids take things at face value. Yeah.

This is just. Homelessness apparently is part of the deal. Like, is it? I don't know about that, but. You know, what was really interesting to me when we were just listening to that right now is I feel like in, when we were telling your story, Danny, it was really interesting to observe you, Danny, kind of re-experiencing or in some cases, like learning for the first time, um, things that

had happened to you. Yes. And as we've been going here week to week, Steven, I feel like I'm starting to not only listen to it, but also to watch you listening to this. In the corner. Yeah.

And it was interesting in this episode, uh, when the road trip started, you actually muttered out loud the words like it was yesterday. Um, you know, and so, and there were a few other times where it was, it was interesting to watch you because you were having, I think, well, I can't speak for you, but it appeared that you were having a real emotional experience. This especially, this, this, yeah, this especially, I believe I'm getting this right geographically. I'm all over the road, apparently, no planet.

Okay. But when we cross the Columbia river, which I believe is Oregon to Washington, I, the vastness and the overcast and the sort of the color, the gray blue of that water rushing and the violence of that, that really, I was absolutely petrified as we were crossing that bridge. And it was, I just thinking about this, I was like, Oh God, as we were cross, as we were heading north and north and I didn't know what to expect. And none of us did. And that's where it really, like, I just felt like things were getting thin. Yeah.

Yes. Yeah. Very thin. Like there's no visible means of support here. Yeah. Well, it's like we talked about last week when Danny asked if there was any part of you that was relieved that your parents were splitting and you were talking about, you know, no, because there was some certainty at least and they were together. That's gone. This is now, every moment that's passing, you are further from any tether that you had

known before. Yeah. In fact, yeah, I was just succumbing to it, which was the crying in the phone booth and Lisa said, we don't have fucking time for that. Hang on, let me punch my brother in the face to get him to shut up so I can find out where, she was trying to get directions to the motel. Right.

But again though, here's that, there's another moment here where you are being told by somebody else not to feel the things that you're feeling. That's interesting. That's true. I never thought about that. You know what I'm being told is to toughen up. Yeah.

Yes. In a different way. Oh yes, you are. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. I hadn't thought about that. And isn't it strange that there are times where you have to fucking toughen up? I mean, I'm sorry to say that.

No, it's true. And you said that in the, in the episode, you were like, she was sorry to say that. It's true. And you said that in the episode, you were like, she was right in doing that, is what you said. It was the right call. Yeah. I don't know where that lives. That's, you know, I don't know where that lives.

It's not like I'm saying. So just remember everyone, sometimes, you know. You gotta punch a kid in the face. Punch a kid in the face. Or allow yourself to get punched in the face. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I don't know where all of that lives, but that's really interesting. Yeah.

I also was thinking about something we started talking about last week in terms of there being a shift here in the last couple of episodes where I feel so in your perspective. And that's partially because you're aging into, um, an age when you would have more vivid memories. And the perspective of yours that I had in this episode, especially by the time we get to the,

the, the boys dormitory, uh, right. The boys section. The men's. Yeah. The man's shadows. Man's shadows. Um, is one of just incredible isolation. Loneliness. That's, that's what I was thinking too. Man's shadows. Is one of just incredible isolation. Loneliness, that's what I was thinking too.

Like, now you're being separated from your sisters. Separated from your sisters, separated from your family. Yeah. And I, it broke my heart to hear it because I just felt so alone with you, ironically. And your fear, like I was just imagining how scared I would be in that moment.

Oh my God. moment entering into this, the men's side of this hostel. I vomited from homesickness, but I really vomited from fear. I was like evacuating. My system was just like, evacuate, get, you know, fight, flight and, or freeze. In this case, it was just, oh my God, I really, that's a visceral memory.

I mean, is there any part of you I know that anger is kind of my thing. But, but like, there's, there's, well, you know, we were talking before about how the Lisa's matriarchal energy at the same time here is like, it's like, it's like, Jesus, can you all just go to a different place where there's not a separate men's and women's? I do feel, I have to say that, and I know why I have this perspective, but I do feel over and over again that you're not being protected in the way that I believe that you should be. Pete Slauson That's a good point, but I have to say, when I made it to the girls' side, it was like Technicolor.

On that side, it was like, da da da, da da da, da da da. I mean, it was like, there were just pretty girls everywhere. They were just like, hey, sure, you can borrow some of my lipstick. That was my impression. It was bright and it smelled great.

They had no idea on the other side was a fucking, it was like real bad. It might as well have been raining indoors on my side. I don't think they even knew like, why don't we go over and see? What you're pointing to is a good point. Like, well, hang on a minute. This is my little brother.

I'm gonna walk over there. He's already in a place of, we're already in this fucked up kind of situation. I just feel like I wish somebody had been, yeah, of course. I just wish there would have been a little bit more. I do also think to your sister's defense, and I always have to think about this,

that it was a very different time. Yes, true. And like now, it does seem absurd to me that you would have been 13, right, 13, something like that? No, younger. Younger than that, 11, 12. So still, whatever. I'm around 12.

Yeah, a very young kid today, going in there by himself. But also, and also Lisa is 18. She's a kid herself. So it's like, yes, it is not certainly not fair to put on any of that on top of her in that moment. Yes, she was 18, 19. Like closer to 19, I think it is, because she's seven years older than I, but a little overlap there, but I know, right?

It's of the time. I'm just feeling the frustration of a world that is not looking out for you. But what's wild is Lisa's reaction quite often to the stories when I tell them was like, was no one looking out for you? There's a story down the line that I'll share when it comes, which is pretty crazy when I'm 15, as I think you guys know the story. But she was like, I can't believe mom let that happen. So Lisa was like, to this day is outraged that no one was looking out for us.

Yeah, so. Yeah, and I just wanna say to Lisa directly, like, I love you, and please don't take, my frustration is in any way an indictment about you. I think she would agree, right? It's like, but how, she's only human, how could she? Yes, 100%. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, I think it's interesting, there's this narrative you hear today but how she's only human, how could she? Yes, 100%. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think it's interesting. There's this narrative you hear today about parenting in circa the modern parenting and how we can be too involved in our kids' lives or we hover too much, we don't let them do anything. And there certainly is, I'm sure, an element of truth to that.

But at the same time, when you hear stories like this, and you think about when- Of neglect. There's really no one looking out for you, you know, and obviously this is an extreme form of that, like neglect is the right word, but you see why we've shifted at least in the direction of like trying to protect kids a little bit more than kids on, even on average were protected in the seventies, let's say. Yeah, truly. And as the story evolves in the next episode, as homelessness goes, we had some protectors

that suddenly came on the scene. Not initially, but down where we settled in a way, which I hope I'm not giving anything away, but at this stage of the trip, we were just winging it. This was like bivvacking we were just winging it. This was like bivvacking. I think they call it. We were absolutely out there just with no map and, uh, and just kind of, kind of out there just winging it.

And then by the time we got to that dancing, uh, in the rain, I mean, that's too on the nose, right? It's like, you wouldn't let that in a script. It's like, nah, shut up, you know? Stranger than fiction. Stranger than fiction. But man, that night and the fact that the guy said that and it made us laugh so hard. And then, yeah, I got a head.

See, now Lisa also knew, look, just eat the rock bread and the cabbage. Yes, yes. She made that happen. She did make it happen. She just knew, okay, just get through this and we'll go out for a treat. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, and it was like such a small thing. Yes. Oh, but it's a beautiful moment. That's what I was thinking about, about the triumph of small things this episode. It's a great way to put it. It's like, man, when, when, how, how important those tiny things can mean when you're adrift. You know what I mean? Yeah, that's a great way to put it.

It's like a special, especially small little just, just rituals. A Coke and a candy bar. Coke and a candy bar. Coke and a candy bar. That to me, it was like, it was home in a way. Yeah. Yes. And it also, it sounds like from the aftermath of that, that it really kind of made concrete the three of your relationships.

Oh yeah. You was forged in that moment. Totally. Like the fellowship of the ring that moment. Totally. Like the fellowship of the ring. Yes. Yes. The candy bar and chocolate. Keep going, yeah, that's right.

In Canada. That's right. And again, to this day, that number is always somehow seems to show up at just the right time. That's beautiful. I love when the universe does things like that. Yeah.

It's incredible. Yeah. Yeah. I remember, I remember that number during any given day. Like what time is it right now? No, it's not. Okay. But I've woken up in the middle of the night and there it is for reasons I can't

explain and, uh, I love it. Wow. Yeah. Well, before we move to look ahead to the next week, I want to turn the attention on you for a second, Danny Jacobs. Oh boy. Um, cause this is, uh, we're, we're four

weeks into this, uh, toughen up story and, um, you know, four weeks in it's been four weeks plus since you once had the spotlight pointed at you. Right. And now the spotlight has been pointed over here at Mr. Stephen Kiran. Yes. And I'm just curious, two things.

Yeah. How's that been for you? Yeah. And just how are you feeling, you know, in general? In general. Well, first of all, it's been, I've, on one level, it's great. Because, because it's, it's not about me. Uh, and it's been about me for long enough, I'd say.

Um, um, and, and, but it's also, it's, um, you know, this, this whole podcast experience, I think has been, and the, and the telling of how to destroy everything has been not by my intention, but by its effect of making me feel less alone. And I think that doing this with Stephen is sort of amplified that because there's, it's obviously a totally different story, but there are parallels and there are moments that I can recognize that I think that are just, again, it's making me feel like when you said in that last episode, oh, I forgot, I'm paraphrasing, but like, every family was like this, or I guess every family was like this.

Like in a way, that's actually true. Yeah. You know, that it's all, they're all not at all like this, but also like this. Yes. And that's one of the things that I'm taking from this. You are part of the larger destruction community. Yeah. Of which we all, you know, at least indirectly belong.

Yeah. Varying degrees are a part of. Yeah. So that's what I would say about that. Yeah. Yeah. Was there another part of your question? Oh, how am I doing in general? Yeah. Oh, I'm doing pretty well. Thanks, Darren. Yeah. Any lingering effects from having gone on this journey, good, bad, otherwise? Things continue to evolve in my family. I'm like, my brother and I still haven't had a chance

to sit down and have a full conversation about everything offline, though we've tried. But we've had had little conversations here and there that have continued to evolve our relationship. And I've been having conversations with my cousin. And so those conversations are continuing to happen. It hasn't stopped because the podcast has stopped. Right.

And so our relationships have continued to evolve, which is nice. There was a fear that I had that, oh, once there's not the ever present need to create content. You would it all go away. It would all go away. Is it all just for the content? Right, but it hasn't and it still seems like it has some

propulsion to it. So that feels good. Yeah. Yeah. That's great. Well, I'll continue to do these check-ins periodically. Yeah, for sure. Inquiring minds want to know. But I think now we can look ahead to next week's episode. Yes. Episode five.

Episode five, which is called, episode five, which is called- We are professionals. Oh, go ahead. Yes, chapter five, homeless and the edges of town. Homeless and the edges of town. What are we talking about here, Kier? Well, we're going to push into where we eventually do land after this mini adventure within the larger adventure. And then what it was like when my mother has some real challenges in her life, but then circles back around and we all sort of

try for a new start together on the edge, edges, plural of town. All right. So why don't we take a listen to a little clip of, of, of episode five homeless and the edges of town. After a short stint in Galveston, we learned that our mother had a reservation for the flight deck at UCLA. She was going to be staying there for a while, and we were told she'd be working with a psychologist named Shirley, who would eventually teach my mom how to say, I'm terrific. I like me. I'm good people.

We would go and visit mom where she was staying in a campus dorm room while she was in treatment, double majoring in shame and low self-esteem. She would sit on the edge of the bed in her little cell, feet not touching the floor, and insist, I'm terrific. I like me. I'm good people. How to Destroy Everything presents Toughen Up is written, performed, and created by Stephen Kieran. Executive produced by Darren Grotsky and Danny Jacobs in partnership with Eastman Productions

and 333 Productions. Story editing by Lisa Blair and Sheila Stevens. Music mixing and mastering by Arlo Sanders. Audio engineering by Glenn Eastman. Original theme music by Alan Simpson. Original artwork by Derek Yee. Kitchen pep talk by Joyce Kieran, thanks to Helen, Diane and Steve, Bob and Carla, Art and Joyce, Dave, Sean, and the

DeTye family. Special thanks to Mom, Dad, Lisa, Sheila, and Joe. For questions, feedback, and of course any stories about Danny's dad, we can be reached at Inowrichardjacobs.gmail.com. If you would like to support this podcast, please consider becoming a patron at www.patreon.com forward slash howtodestroyeverything and of course you can find us on Instagram and Blue Sky as well. How to Destroy Everything Presents Toughen Up is available on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Special thanks to Spotify Studios for the use of their beautiful recording space in

downtown Los Angeles.