How To Destroy Everything - How To Destroy Everything Presents: Toughen Up - Episode 7: Driving School, Dad's Big Surprise and Blowing the Hatch

Episode Date: June 3, 2025

In this seventh chapter, we find a mid-life Maureen facing her fears and calling upon her brother, Jimmy, to finally teach her how to drive. Then, Eugene shocks the family with a surprise marriage announcement. After Sheila leaves the nest for college, Stephen is left at home with his mother, doing his best to fill the role of "Man of the House." Then Danny relates to the role reversal that took place between Stephen and his mother and Darren makes an observation about the sheer resiliency of this family.  If you would like to support this podcast, please consider becoming a patron at www.patreon.com/HowToDestroyEverything and please don't forget to share, rate, and review! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Tuffin' Up, written and performed by Stephen Caron. Episode 7, Driving School, Dad's Big Surprise and Blowing the Hatch. It was about this time that my mother decided she was going to learn how to drive. She was almost 50 by now and had waited long enough. I want to learn how to drive and I want Jimmy to teach me. My mom's brother, Jimmy Devlin, was Uncle Jimmy to us. Little Jimmy had grown into our giant Uncle Jimmy, my first comic influence, and the funniest man in the world. Uncle Jimmy was built like a beer truck and had an ivory pompadour and pink skin, super white eyelashes and eyebrows, and was just this side of a brawny albino.

He had big, yoked forearms that were covered in green Navy tats and frosted with fine hair that looked like snow. Uncle Jimmy, who was a teenager, would take cars up into the canyons above Los Angeles, wedge a cinder block down in the accelerator, and jump out to collect the insurance. Uncle Jimmy, who was still driving the Chevy Malibu, the butter yellow Chevy Malibu that their mother had killed herself in on Christmas morning. Fuck it, what better car to teach my mother how to drive in? Not to mention that Uncle Jimmy was still operating an automobile after being diagnosed with ataxia, which is a neurological disorder, which caused him to lose his motor skills in more ways than one,

and experience violent, unpredictable muscle tremors, subjecting any passengers in the Chevy Malibu to savage bursts of acceleration, homicidal lane changes, and brutal spasmodic braking. We just thought that's how our cool and lawless Uncle Jimmy drove. So that's how Mom learned to drive. It was no surprise then that Mom, after finally getting her license, borrowed my first car and immediately totaled it. It was a gold Chevy Vega with a black racing stripe and an aluminum engine block so you

could argue that she had done me a big favor. Mom had executed a halting and lurching left turn just like Uncle Jimmy had taught her, only unfortunately it was directly in the path of an oncoming dialer ride, filled with terrified young school children. They T-boned my mother on the corner of La Paz Road and Crisanta Drive during the Christmas season, spinning her around and depositing her on the sidewalk in front of the charming Santa's workshop that was erected every December.

Mom came within inches of taking out Chris Kringle's big red mailbox and blasting the wishes of good little girls and boys all over the busy intersection. She had been coming to pick me up from high school, and after waiting for her a while, my friend pulled up and took me to the corner where the accident was. I found my mother unscathed in the back of a paramedics truck with an oxygen mask on, holding an unlit cigarette between her trembling fingers and clutching a lighter in her other hand. As I walked up, she took the oxygen off her face and with a jersey deadpan said, Don't kill me.

My car was totaled, but I still drove it. So what if the passenger's side door touched my hip? So what if the plastic that now kept the rain out made my car sound like I was competing in a regatta? So what? Turn the radio up. So what if totally out of the blue our dad told us that he was going to be getting married again? To our aunt, to his dead brother's wife, so that

my aunt Helen was now going to be my stepmother and all my cousins were now going to be my stepbrothers and stepsister. So what? So now suddenly I had four cousin brothers, and a sister cousin, and an aunt mom. And instead of three of us kids, there were now eight of us, and our dad was now their dad too. And now he lived in a house, instead in his office with a pistol and instead of opening christmas gifts next to a blueprint machine that left us smelling like ammonia we actually went to celebrate holidays in his home a home with multiple hot rods in the driveway tables laid end to end, groaning under the weight of food, and where the phrase, Loud enough to wake the dead, was born.

Holidays at Dad's were wall to wall. It was raucous. A decibel level one might be subjected to in a major sports arena now compressed down into a two-story tract home in Northridge, California. One Thanksgiving, I found my father in the garage, smoldering near the recycling bin. I asked him if he was okay, and he answered with, There are so many people in my god damned kitchen right now! The holidays at Dad's always followed the predictable pattern of a feast that devolved into a dessert

orgy that inevitably ended in a death match disguised as the board game. Trivial pursuit. A perverse tabletop tradition seemingly designed to tear at the very fabric of the American family. One year, the very last question that would lead his team to victory was asked of my father, who, having never attended Sunday School apparently, had no freaking idea whose image adorns the shroud of Turin. But in his growing frustration, at the increasing volume building in the room as the last grains of sand slipped through the tiny hourglass, muttered under his breath, Jesus Christ. And he, completely confused as to why, was hoisted up in his chair like a pharaoh. It was around this time that Sheila went off to college, leaving just me and my mom in

the condo next to the crooked ditch on the far edge of town. I remember a few things about this time. Mom was taking a break from driving, so I drove her around everywhere in the bombed-out Vega. She sat in the back seat because the passenger seat was now home to a large portion of the right side of the vehicle. She would peek her head around my shoulder and scream over the thundering of the thrashing plastic. We need to stop and buy cigarettes.

A couple of years passed this way. I remember watching Monday Night Football together, including the night Howard Cosell announced the death of John Lennon live on the air. I remember going out some nights to be with my friends, and she always wanted me to feel just a little bad. Or a lot. Like go ahead, go out with your friends, and I hope when you do, while I'm here, home, alone in our living room, that I'm hit by a fucking truck.

Now, as we all got a little older, Lisa, Sheila and I would sometimes wonder aloud exactly how much it would cost to rent a truck. I remember one night. I was eighteen years old. My mother woke me up from a dead sleep. I could smell a cigarette and Chanel number five as she was shaking me awake. I could also feel that the heat was on oppressively high and all the windows were open, which is how mom did winter. Steven, Steven, wake up.

She whispered. There's something on the kitchen floor. I need you to wake up and kill it. So I woke up and I staggered down the stairs, stumbling over to where the kitchen was, and my mom is hanging back, leaning out over the edge of the stair railing, motioning. It's over there. It's on the kitchen floor. Kill it. I'm barely awake, rubbing my eyes and looking at the bare linoleum, and I say, Mom, I don't see anything. I mean, whatever was here, it's gone now." And she said,

"...Find it." It's at this point that my eye catches something moving slowly along the carpeting over near the door leading into the garage. And because the carpet was dark, I couldn't tell exactly what it was. So I got down there a little lower, a little closer, and when I got real close, I was met by two little claws and a barbed tail that whipped over the top of this thing and I say, oh, oh, it's a scorpion. And I suddenly hear, like, coming And I suddenly hear, like, coming from where my mom used to be, like, I expected to look over and see bobby pins hanging in the air like that witch on Bugs Bunny. Because my mom was just gone. And I'm thinking, okay, it's a scorpion that got in from the creek somehow, you know, so

I go to the pantry and I'm keeping one eye on the scorpion and I'm looking for an empty mayonnaise jar of some sort with a lid to put on it and I hear my mother is now slowly coming down the stairs. So I look around the corner and she leans way out over the railing and very calmly says, It's okay, honey. I called the police. Which I guess is just what you do

when you're from New Jersey and your son won't kill a scorpion in your kitchen. You call the cops and let them come and shoot it. So the police came and one said, I'll be damned, it really is a scorpion. But they didn't kill it. They took that mayonnaise jar that I had found and and one officer took his billy club and blink, sort of flicks the scorpion inside, while the other cop was looking me up and down in

my pajamas, obviously thinking, well done, man of the house. This episode is brought to you by Bubbly Cleaning. Guys, do you have a moment? Sure, buddy. Sure. What's going on, Kieran? I just have to tell you something. Look, I passed out the other day. I was cleaning our condominium and I over cleaned.

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only $19. When it finally came time for me to move out, there wasn't a fucking truck big enough that should have come and run over my mother. At least in her mind. But she knew it had to be. Two high school friends, Jay and Michael, using explosives packed with Russian literature and the banned Joy Division, had blown a big hole in the side of the suburbs, and as they were escaping, looked back and asked me, You coming? And we all went away to college up the coast in Santa Barbara.

Eventually I moved farther north to San Francisco, which I only knew to be the town where your sister socks you in the mouth if you start crying in a fogged up phone booth. But I was willing to give it a second chance. Okay. Oh, boy, oh, boy, oh, boy. In the studio now with Danny Jacobs, Darren Gronski and Stephen Kiernan. Hello everybody. Hello everybody. Talking about Tuffin' Up.

So one thing that I wanted to throw out first of all in listening to this, Stephen, is the parent-child relationship really hit home for me, the reversal of it in a lot of ways, in several areas here in this episode. Number one, how the typical thing we would imagine with teenagers that they're the one, obviously, to total the car and, you know, and here it's your mom and your mom is actually taking, you know, trying to- Don't kill me. Trying to line, yeah.

Yeah, it sounds like what the line the teenager would say. Exactly. And then later on with the waking you up to say, hey, kill this scorpion. There's, with the waking you up to say, hey, kill this scorpion. And that is a dynamic in terms of that role reversal that I hadn't really heard before in this story. I wonder what you have to say to that. Pete Yeah. We used to say, like, we were raising mom sometimes, you know, we were raising our mom. And the mom, you know, was, there were certain childlike qualities that my mom had. Like she never grew up in some ways.

Not that I blame her. Right. Yeah. But my mom did feel a lot of times like a teenager. And so much so that when she worked at places, the young people would always scoop my mom up and like take her on trips. And I remember she told us once, I'm going water skiing. What?

We're like, what? But my mom would relate more to like the teenagers. Oh, so interesting. Wow. So she was sort of in some ways kind of locked in time. I have a friend who used to refer to her mom. Her mom's name was Terry, and she would call her Team Terry, that her mom never really grew out of that phase. And I think mom could do that. She could kind of hang on the street corner, you know, and just like next to a burning, you know, trash can and just kind of hang that way. We used to do shit like that all the time.

Was that was what she was telling us when we watched American Graffiti. So I think my mom had that side of her, never learned to drive. And then she just torched my car, like right out of the gate. Yeah. Yep.

I love the image also of you driving her around later, which is another role reversal where you're the parent and of you driving her around later, which another is another role reversal where you're the parent and she's in the back seat like a kid is. At first I heard that, I was thinking driving Miss Daisy, but then I had the same thought, Dan. I was like, no, no, no, she's like the kid there. She's the kid. And you're driving her, you're letting her pick up her cigarettes. Now in, in, in relation to, in terms of my own relationship with my mother, that is,

in terms of my own relationship with my mother, that is, I experienced that same real reversal and was a big part of the anger and frustration that I had with her. But it doesn't sound like that was a thing for you. No, it was. I mean, it was sort of a pain. I mean, Sheila and I, when mom worked at a donut shop, she had to get up at three and we had to drive her there.

And then Sheila left. Sheila left, you know, and so then Sheila was like, too bad, you know? Wow. So you would get up at three in the morning and drive your mom to the donut shop? For a little while and then she got other jobs. I hope you got free donuts at the very least. Yeah, at the very least. But that was like, but you'd have to set your alarm and be up at all hours and take her to places. Cause my mom.

I mean, no wonder, by the way, also, I'm sorry to interrupt you that, you know, you start not doing as well in school. I mean, I don't know how you do well in school when you're, you were up at three in the morning. That's a great point. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I just was like really, I don't know.

Again, that's an interesting question. I think, I always thought that my schoolwork started to fall apart as my self-esteem was just going down. I didn't think I was very smart. I never did. I think I was sort of told that too, that I was, just because I didn't learn in a direct way. Yeah. So, But I mean, you also might have been, you were probably, you were definitely

emotionally exhausted and very well physically exhausted as well. Yeah, that's true. So that, that, that kind of hampers learning. Yes. So they say. Yeah. One just side question I have, uh, um, about you at this time is obviously you were having your struggles at school.

Were you reading a lot on your own or, or not yet? Cause you strike me now as someone who is well read, erudite. obviously you were having your struggles at school. Were you reading a lot on your own or not yet? Because you strike me now as someone who is well read, erudite, you've read things now, but what about then? Not then, but when I went to college, it was a vertical takeoff because I majored in literature at a very unusual college on the campus of UC Santa Barbara that was very, it was the College of Creative Studies, it's still there. You have to get accepted to UC Santa Barbara and then you

have to get accepted separately to the College of Creative Studies. Once you're there, there are no grades. You are awarded units by how much work you produced because that's the only way you learn your craft according to Marvin Mudrick who I reference in another. Yeah, your writing mentor. That's fascinating. And there's seven disciplines, arts and sciences that he wanted to influence each other. So the chemists were hanging out with the sculptors and the painters were hanging out with the mathematicians. That's what he wanted. I mean, it's interesting that you kind of, you say a vertical takeoff, you kind of found yourself intellectually, academically, once you left the chaos.

Well, it was also Michael and Jay. I had met Michael and Jay in high school and they were machines. I mean, they're geniuses. To this day, they're both super geniuses. What do they do? Jay is one of the biggest namers in the world. He names rockets and, uh, he names things.

He names like drugs and missiles. I'd like to be a namer. Maybe I didn't even know that existed. He's just an absolute machine. Like, he names drugs and, and yes, I've always been confused by the naming industry of drugs. Pete Slauson I think we should get Jay on this podcast.

Jared Slauson Honestly, every time a name comes up for a drug, I'm like, why? I don't understand why, I know, listen, I'm sorry, we're going off topic here. Pete Slauson This is important stuff. Jared Slauson I don't understand why the names of drugs do not play into what they actually are. It's from a branding perspective, it seems like you're setting yourself way back.

They used to name them great, you know, cocaine. That's a great name. Right? Aspirin. Come on. I get it. Aleve. I mean, Aleve. Aleve is a good one because it's like, oh, it aleves my pain. I get that. But then Brechtarvy or whatever, you know, it's like, what is that? You're setting yourself back from a branding professional. I know the guy who could completely rock your world. Anyway.

So Michael and Jay, they were reading Russian literature and they were reading and listening to unbelievable music. And so they were a huge influence and they did blow a hole in the suburbs. Jay went first to the College of Creative Studies. Michael and I stayed back and worked at Jay's father's factory at Laminades. And we worked, cause his dad was an inventor. And so, and then, and then- These people, they're inventors and namers of things. This is incredible. Oh my God. These, I mean, again, had I not met Michael and Jay,

and we were writing too. We were writing and putting up shows as seniors. And we were- Like plays you were writing? Yes, we were writing plays and parodies and of, you know, Greek plays. We were, you know, flipping the genders. I see. So you really, you were coming into your own you know, flipping the genders. I see. So you really, you were coming into your own with them

right at the end of high school. And I could not believe that they were hanging out with me because I was dumb and a cartoon. I was a dumb cartoon kid. I couldn't believe, what do these two super geniuses want with me? Like, am I, I felt like the normal girl on the Munsters. You know?

So it was like, I, I felt like the normal girl on the Munsters. You know? So it was like, I was, I was just so amazed and still am to this day. Whenever Michael or Jay, I don't know, praises me or sees a show or something, I'm always like super flattered because those guys are into my book. You still have that same relationship. Wow.

Complete, total utter respect for them. Yeah. And they're as artists. That's amazing, you know, they're just incredible. Wow. I have a couple logistical questions that occurred to me after, or while listening to this. So first of all, your dad and getting remarried. So like we've last talked about your dad for several years now sleeping, you know, in his office.

Next to the blueprint machine. Off of Woodman Avenue. Off of Woodman Avenue. Yeah. The gun and the gun and the- Pistol in the bottom drawer. All you need. And obviously that's where he's been since the skate park, essentially, right? And-

Yes. Yeah. essentially, right? And, yeah. And so how, and, and, and for, for who he is and what he does, which is work, it seemed like he was in a, he'd reached a stasis. And then I love the way you do it in the episode, like, you know, so what if your dad announces he's remarrying, right? His, his brother's ex-wife. My question is, how does that happen? Like how, how does he go from- I was wondering the same thing. From the office to now he's got a house and a family and holidays? This is how it went down in the lore of the family.

I mean, I even just said it in the one man show that I think you guys saw, which you did see, but this story was in there. Basically when my dad's brother died, my dad was living at the office at the time. And naturally, they were struggling. The family now had no income and they were- All these kids. The kids. And so they were sort of scrambling and my dad sort of stepped in to help. And we say that my dad went to the help at the garage sale and just never left the garage sale. You know, that's, I don't know when it happened between him and Helen, but something sparked there.

But I mean, he stepped into help. How about stepping into help with you guys? Well, that's something that's brought up. Yeah. My sisters, my sisters do bring that up. And I was just glad that my dad was happy. And it was complicated at first. And but it was, that's right, Danny.

I mean, that's right. Yeah, there's something there. One thing though, I mean, and again, I'm not, I'm just saying we had a house to go to, like in the holidays and I had brothers who are my brothers now. I mean, I don't call them my cousins or my cousin brothers and I have an incredible sister cousin who is my sister. So I have three sisters, you know? And my brothers, one has passed on, but my brothers are like, they are, I love them very much. And we grew up as cousins, but we definitely,

you know, think of ourselves as full blown brothers. And, you know, it was harder on Lisa because Lisa wasn't necessarily accepted into the family for different reasons. And, you know, Lisa was always like the renegade in our family. Yep. With that handwriting. First of all, with the handwriting.

But she's, you know, again, Lisa has, in our book, she has just heroic qualities and maybe that's just the price you pay. I don't know. Was there any talk at any point of you going and living at that house? That was going to be my next question. Was the sort of setup here where your mom maintained full- I did for eight months.

Oh, you did? After college. After college, I moved to the, I went from Santa Barbara, moved with my girlfriend up to Novato in Marin County, stayed there for a month as we were looking for jobs and looking for a place to live. And it was during that time that she said, look, I'm going to be gone for a month, just so you know, I'm going to help my mom move out from Florida. So it's going to be you and my aunt. And so I lived down, I lived in the house, my dad's house with me and my brother, Dave, everyone else had left and me and my dad and my stepmom and Dave, and the four of us lived in the house.

And I lived there just for eight months, but it was like, whoa, that was insane. That just felt really surreal. But earlier, when it first happened that he married her, there was never a, you were gonna stay with your mom. Yeah. Was that, was there like- To look after my mom.

To look after your mom, that's what I was gonna ask. Yeah, it was just you guys at that point. Yeah, it was hard enough to leave her. Yeah. Was that, was there like- To look after my mom. To look after your mom, that's what I was gonna ask. Yeah, it was just you guys at that point. Yeah, just, it was hard enough to leave her. Yeah. And I just knew that this, in fact, Sheila was gonna be, what are we gonna do? Yeah, yeah. Like, you gotta go to school, like, right?

And I didn't at first. I went to a junior college in town, Saddleback Junior College. And then the- So you, your plan, you had that, in moment where like, I guess I'm just going to stay here and... And work at a factory at Jay's dad's factory. Yeah.

Yes, for an indefinite time. But then Jay was the scout. He went to the College of Creative Studies first and came back and was like, guys. This is it. This is it. Oh, man. This place is made for us. Wow. And they, again, they had such an influence on me.

But so, so he says that to you essentially, and then I'm assuming though that that didn't mollify you totally in terms of your concerns about your mom. And leaving her. No, no, it did not. But my mom was the one that said, -"You gotta go." Totally. -"Oh, she did. Wow." In fact, I have a card...

Ah, man. I have a card that's a bookmark that I use that's from my mom of me leaving. And it's so full of love. And I believe in you and all this... Mm. full of love and I believe in you and all this. Yeah, I just, it's funny. I just found that recently. I just opened this old book. I'm rereading it now that I read. And so I opened it and there was, and it was like, you're off on your own for the first time. I remember she said, and I just, I want you to know, you know, I believe in you.

Yes, you're only an hour and a half from dad if stuff happens, but you know. I had to work, you know, I had to keep working up. I was, we didn't have money, but go. I was just gonna say coming from Miss, I hope I get hit by a truck, but go. To give you such a green light and I support you is a big deal, I feel like. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, it's so funny. Talk about grace. There's just some times where we just suddenly overcome ourselves with this shadow or whatever. There are times where there's a window of opportunity. It just opens up and we just step through it, I feel. And there were times where my parents either died to their old selves or by some act of grace or generosity. Look, at the bottom, at the core, my parents were very, very good people. They were broken. Their hearts were just shattered and broken

and traumatized. But at their core, that's really the thing, man. Stuff gets in the way. But I believe that was their true nature. And that was part the thing, man. Stuff gets in the way, but I believe that was their true nature. And that was part of the quote problem. Because when you're feeling all that and you have no, first your thinking is flawed and you're overtaken by it, then all the emotions that follow that, so that all these things that are not true, basically based on what happened to you, be it a war or abuse or suicide, but in the course of that, you can lose your way. But what's still there is what and who we are, I feel. And there are times where

that is just, you get a free sample. You get a free sample, like the clouds part, and you get a straight shot, even in this saying, in spite of ourselves. And I'm just talking about me. I'm talking about me, and I know that was true for them. And they just were such good people who were really armored, heavily armored up and armed against life.

And damaged, like you said. Terribly damaged. And yet they carried on. Yeah. How did they carry on? I'll never know. You know, it reminds me, and it reminds me, but it makes me think of your car,

which in a way is a metaphor for you and everyone in your family, because your car was totaled and yet you drove it on. You kept going. You and your mom and your dad, as people were in a sense totaled yet. Totaled. You kept driving.

Yeah, that's a good way to put it, man. And it didn't fix, the car wasn't fixed. I mean, it didn't look nice. No. There was the, the side of it is in the passenger seat, but yeah. I think that stands as a metaphor for metaphor for you and everyone in this story. That's, yeah.

Literature major. So another aspect of this episode that I wanted to touch on was Uncle Jimmy. Oh, yes. So I guess first of all, like, do you think that you, like how would you describe his sense of humor? Oh my God. Uncle Jimmy, how would I describe it? Funny as Mad Alive, Danny.

Funny as Mad Alive. But there's a lot of... There's the Jerry Lewis funny, there's the Woody Allen funny. I'm assuming he wasn't that. No, he wasn't. He was just more fascinated by riffing. He loved doing sound effects with me. Oh man, there it is again. Wow.

And he just, I loved making him laugh. I can't really compare him to anyone because it was during a time where I was coming up and he would just be like, this is crazy. I remember when we got this little tape recorder and we were suddenly recording ourselves. And at Thanksgiving, I remember once he said, the gravy was magnifique.

And so we don't know who that character was, but the gravy was so good, we had to say, oh, do that again, the gravy was so good, we had to say, oh, do that again. The gravy was magnifique-o. So I think he was more character driven. Uh-huh, I see, yeah. Also, he had a very dark sense of humor. He suffered from ataxia.

What is that again? It attacks the central nervous system, and eventually he ended up in a wheelchair. And by the way, in case anyone is lost on who he is, uncle Jimmy was your mother's younger brother who was kidnapped along with your mother by this priest moved from New Jersey. How old was he roughly when that happened? Little. So his whole life he really remembered was being brought by the

priest from Jersey to California. He was a California kid. Yeah. So his whole life, he really remembered was being brought by the priest from Jersey to California. He was a California kid. Yeah. And he was in the Navy and he had big giant forearms with like frosted white. I mean, he was just this brawler and he just was, I just talk about feeling safe. When uncle Jimmy was around, life just seemed awesome.

Yeah. And uh. And what was his job? Before he got sick, he had worked for Sears for many years. He worked like- A place that your mom would not accept furniture from. Not furniture, exactly. But he worked for Sears for many years. I don't know what he did,

but then he also, I think he worked some factory job. But there was also this renegade energy to Uncle Jimmy that was like, you know, it wasn't like a dangerous, like Uncle, you know, some uncles, Uncle John. It was more like freewheeling. Like, yeah, every so often we'd push a car into the canyon. It's like, this is just what you do, you know? Cause Jimmy was just like bigger than life.

So was that real that he would, the insurance scam? Full on. Oh my God. Yeah, it was like, fuck it, don't, you know, relax. You know, here, drink, have one of these. It was just that sort of thing. Like, I'm like fucking getting caught You know that was did he ever did he have no?

No, it was there was just something like ah come on. You know don't be a little harmless. Yeah, don't be a wet blanket Yeah, come on. Let's go. Let's go fight some guys. You know it was just like an uncle Jimmy Just there was just something about uncle Jimmy. I swear it was like, he was like sunshine to me. Yeah. Yeah. And he had come from back East and there was just this barrel chested kind of energy to uncle Jimmy that at least growing up. And then when he started to lose his motor skills and then when he could not speak in a way that people could understand, I swear to God, I was the only person that could understand what he was saying. Wow.

And I don't know why. And he would just say things that were, you know, I remember he made a really terrible joke when my dad, you know, when dad married Helen, we're all together, you know, and he says to me in something that no one else can understand, he says to me, it's clear how attracted she is to you. This is speaking about my aunt, about like my dad's wife, she's really attracted to you. And I'm like, what are you doing? But the fact that he's free, it's like he's speaking another language. It's like he's speaking in a totally different language. There are people like, what did he just say? I'm like, I don't even know. That's so funny. And then I remember we were at a light. I'm about to, he's in the wheelchair. We're about,

the light turns green and he turns to the people in the exos and said, he's trying to kill me. He's going to push me into traffic. Oh my God, that's amazing. Help me please, please help me. And he's laughing really hard and they're like, ah, what is he saying? I'm like, and I'm like, I don't know. That is so great. No one knows. And I'm like, please stop me. he loved to embarrass me. Yeah. Yeah. But he's basically making this a joke

that only you would even know. Yes, that only I would know. And then we would go to the hockey games. He loved the Kings. And because he was in a wheelchair, we had these fucking crazy seats at the Forum. Yeah. Yeah. And Jerry Buss was seated just sort of behind us.

But we would go to hockey games and it was so perfect that Uncle Jimmy loved hockey. You know? And it was just, I don't know, I know I sort of idolized my Uncle Jimmy, but damn, that guy, formative. I love it. Again, I'm just trying to think about you, this little boy going through all this. And I love that you had an uncle to idolize. Yeah. You had, and all of this insanity, there was

somebody who, who didn't stare at you like he hated you, you know, who, who, who was kind of a buddy and a source of mischief. Yes. But like ultimately a positive relationship and experience. Yeah. And he was married to my aunt Emily who was

just wonderful. I mean, just so beautiful and wonderful as a kid. I remember she was so pretty, you know, and I was like, oh, aunt Emily is so pretty. And their family just seemed like they were rocking. And then my cousins, Chris and Kathy, there's a famous picture of me alone in the house as a baby looking out and they're all on the lawn looking up at me. They had left the baby alone in the house and I was

looking out alone. And I am sure that was Uncle Jimmy's idea. Like, let's leave the baby in the window and we'll go down into the, I'll try and bring, maybe I'll send you that picture because I do have that picture, but it was very typical uncle Jimmy. Yeah. Oh, that's great. One other observation before we end this episode that I just found interesting is that your father, as we talked about, ended up marrying

his late brother's wife. Yeah. And your mother and father only got together because originally she was supposed to go on a date with one of your dad's brothers. Oh yeah. That's a trip. There's just a weird parallel there of like mismatches, not mismatches, but like random

sort of like a almost, almost. Familial connections. Yeah, familial. Yeah. Wow. The one I'm avoiding is incestuous, but like that's kind of what's happening. Yeah. It's true. Yeah. That's really a trip, man. I didn't think of it that way, Darren. It's like,

you know, that's how my parents met. Take this bird flying, because all the Kieran brothers could fly, you know? And it's like, so it's like, I just sort of flipping my dad the keys to the little plane they all had. And then, sure enough, my dad steps in, which I believe is Shakespearean. There was a decree that if your brother dies, it is your duty and honor to actually, I forget where that's originating from, but that was your, you were called to do that. Well, there you go. And they were, they were indeed. I remember saying that to mom when she's like, uh-huh, it's a decree, huh? Says everything you need to know.

Exactly. Said some garage sale. Typical. Okay, so now we have a special treat here for this episode. We are going to bring on, I'm going to say the star of season one of How to Destroy Everything. The breakout star. The breakout star.

We've all been wondering what she's been up to, and we wanted to talk to her about this episode as well. Ladies and gentlemen, Sandy Jacobs. Woo-hoo! Cue the music! Cue the music! ["The Star-Spangled Banner"] Hi, Mom! Hi! Hi, Sandy!

How you doing? Hi! Hey, Sandy! Oh, it's great to hear your voice. I've missed this. I did too. I missed you. And it's good to see you, to hear you, Stephen. Oh, thank you. It's good to hear you in person. This is, I'm a little starstruck, to be honest with you. Oh, I am too, actually. So, what do you think of the second season, Mom? I think it's really great.

And when I listened to it, when I really listened to it, I felt like I was, you know, like it was hard at first to understand, but then I felt like I was really into it. And then especially when you guys came in and talked about and kind of brought information out and how, you know, how everybody was, how everything was, what was happening and how it's not all jokes, you know what I mean? So that was, that part of it was hard, you was hard for me to grasp. And then finally when I heard all that, I felt like it was just wonderful. I felt like you guys are really helping him to get through this stuff just like you were

really helped Danny to get through everything. And it's just so great. I just wish that I hope you can keep doing this and helping people and then helping in the meantime, people who have to go through this stuff, helping them realize it. So you're saying you really liked it once your son. No, no, that wasn't it. I really liked it. Once I got, I, once I could kind of get through all the joking part, you know, that part was- Well, that's interesting.

Woody, why was that hard for you? Because I'm not, actually I'm not that good with like sarcasm and things like that. So you remember that, you know that about me. Oh, I know that. I enjoy that about you because I can literally get you to believe anything. I know. I know. So it was hard for me to listen to that because of all that sarcasm. I just didn't register, you know, basically. I'm curious, Mom, if there is anything

Mom, if there is anything that you've heard in Stephen's story so far that is in any way reminded you of things with Dad or I'm just curious if you if you felt any overlap at all. Yes. And one of the things that I really I felt the most, although He was much younger than you, but I felt like it was similar, was when He was traveling and with His sister, well, you're right here, so when you were traveling with your sister and family, and then you had to go into that dark room where all the men were sleeping and nobody really paid any attention to what was going to happen to you. That reminded me of when Danny, although Danny was a lot older, but still he was vulnerable,

you know, he was still like a young man, and he had to go, he went with Richard, and Richard just left him in Australia, and he had to find his whole way all by himself, you know, to figure it all out. Right. So that's what I got out of that, you know, I felt very strongly with that. Interesting. And I thought, man, at least Richard kind of held off until he was older. I mean, he could have done something just like that. Well, and you're right also Sandy, that there's there in both cases, there

is an abandonment that is happening. I mean, Danny, for you in Australia, Richard literally abandoned you there in Australia and Kieran for you, your parents had abandoned you back home. Uh, and your sisters had, and you had gone on this journey together and so I Think that's really a smart observation Sandy that they both at different times in life and in slightly different ways had been abandoned by You know a parent or in Stephen's case both parents. Yes. Yeah And my sisters. Oh, go ahead Danny. No, please please I was. And my sisters, oh, go ahead, Danny. No, no, please, please. I was going to say, my sisters inadvertently abandoned me because we were told, oh no,

that's the men's side, this is the women's side. That's right. It was radically different. I mean, their side was like bright lights and cold cream and hair up in towels. I mean, it was very sort of like a movie from the 60s, like saturated with color, and mine was something out of some medieval dungeon, you know. And they had no clue that that's what I had going on on my side, you know. The hippies knew, but the hippies, you know. Mom, are there any kind of updates that you have that you want to share about any further thoughts that you've, or work that you've put in about processing your own stuff and

dad and all of that stuff? Yes, I do. Okay, so. Okay. All right, so remember I sent you an email of some music that recently? Yes, a couple days ago you sent me a link, a YouTube link, apropos of nothing, with no context of a woman singing a song.

Because I was gonna talk to you about it. Yeah, well. Yeah, Dani, she was gonna talk to you about it. But you could have said, hey, here's something I will talk to you about later. You literally just sent an email with the said, hey, here's something I will talk to you about it later. You literally just sent an email with the link and I had to go, mom, what is this? Yeah, yeah.

And then you said, I'll talk to you about it. Yeah. I said, okay. Danny, just tell us what the link was without editorializing, please. It was a link to a woman singing a song and there was a violin accompaniment, and that's it. Okay, it was a French song that's it.

Okay, it was a French song that's played with the violin. I didn't know what the words meant. It was called. What is the song now? V-O-I-L-A. Voila. Yeah. And it was like, the first thing that happened when I listened to it, I thought it was so

beautiful and so I wanted to play it. And I didn't even know what it meant. I just thought it was so beautiful. So I told my teacher, she got me a copy of the music and so I started to play it. So I wrote a little thing about it down, which I'm going to read to you, after my thoughts about it. I wrote the music I heard on YouTube of the song Viola, which is in French, so I didn't understand it.

But the music was so beautiful, I wanted to play it on the violin. I listened to it as well, singers, people singing it, as well as the violin, and loved it truly. And it truly excited me how the music started and soft and pushed up to the chorus. And I can't really read my writing. And seeing it played with so much feeling, what did that mean? So, viola means look at me, and it's about someone who is opening up herself to the world, and she is also wanting to be believed and accepted. This brought all my feelings

out about my sharing about my life with Richard and how I shut up about him because no one would believe me. And I just wanted to be seen and believed so I could never seem to get out of that feeling that I needed to hide or to be quiet because I wasn't crazy or talented enough or smart enough. I always had a reason to put myself down where I wouldn't be seen. But the song builds up and as she opens up more her feelings are dark and she feels like there's nothing left. So she pleads with her friend to stay and not leave her alone. So then I kind of internalized that.

I said I had a big dream once and I needed someone who would believe in me. And I wish I could have overcome all this and had found someone to love, but I was too afraid. Wow. Wow. Wow. Yeah. I'm just sort of processing that. Yeah. So that's why, you know, you used to call me up and say, maybe you should go to a counselor because why aren't you dating anyone? You know.

When I was younger, yeah. Yeah, and I just couldn't, I never could get through that, through that problem. Yeah. Sandy, you are extraordinary. I just have to say, you found this piece of music, it spoke to you, you didn't quite know why, and then you did some research or some internal work,

and you came up with all of that. That's just incredible. I'm continually amazed by you and your, the work that you're doing to try to understand yourself. It's just so inspiring. Oh, thank you. And I feel like I've always kind of been this way. That's why I read books about different people

with different mental illnesses, like novels, just so I can understand what different people are, you know, what that's like, you know, what the different mental illnesses are like. Mom, what would the end, can you read the end of what you wrote again? So I say, okay, I had a big dream once. I needed someone who believed in me. I wished I could have overcome all this and all this stuff, you know, like that I was talking with Richard and found someone to love, but I was too afraid.

So I mean, other people opened up, you know, like I saw Darren, your mom, and she got remarried and, you know, and I just never, I just never, I just never did. Do you, and do you regret that? Well, I wish I could have. I wish I maybe could have, but the people that I met, I just didn't, I wasn't interested in. And then later on, I just kind of gave up. Well, it's interesting because in the past when you've talked about this subject, you've often talked about it in a way of, I've never heard you express the remorse over that lost opportunity before. You've always expressed it to me like, yeah, I like living alone and I like having my own

space and this is what I want. That's what I feel like. I feel like both. I feel like I wish that at the time that I was dating Joe, who you didn't like, you know, I felt like that was the time that maybe I could have found, I was ready and I could have found somebody. But it wasn't Joe. And then I found that I dated that guy who I thought maybe it would

work out, but then he had mental problems. Remember I told you about that? It was in one of the episodes. And I had to just not go out with him anymore because I don't want that for sure. And so, and then it seemed like that, after a while I just gave up. I mean, I would go to single things and they just weren't, nobody was what I wanted. So I don't know. Yeah.

When you write that you had a big dream once, is that dream love? Yes. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Well, you know, and do you think it's too late for you, Mom? Yes, because now it's like everybody, like when you think of how old I am, 77, and I'm pretty good health, but boy, people are just, you know, I mean, they're so old now, all the people, the men.

I just, I know, I think it's too late because I don't really want to, like, I would like to find, it would be nice to find a friend, but the men all want younger women and I'm, and my age would be, you know, 77 is pretty old for a guy, you know, and I feel like I'd have to end up taking care of them and I don't know, I just didn't want to go into that, you know, at my age. Yeah, that makes sense. Well, I do think that, first of all, you never know. Yeah, that's true, that's true.

You can be open to possibility without necessarily spending a lot of ton of energy and time seeking it out. But also that you do have, if your dream was love, I mean, you do have in a certain different kind of way, a lot of love in your life from me and my brother and your grandkids who love you deeply. Oh, I know. I know. I love you, Sandy. I know. I love you deeply. Oh, I know, I know.

I love you, Sandy. I know, I love you too, Darren. I'm in. I mean, I'm new to the party, but can I just say something quickly? It's small consolation, Sandy, but by you just sharing, I had a dream once, by you just sharing that experience and you being so vulnerable and honest, it does benefit other people somehow. It does.

People hear it and they relate at least and maybe are inspired or they understand. So there is this crazy thing that we're doing right now. This, right? That we've all wondered, huh, I'm not so sure about this. But I will say that the people that have reached out, and you guys can say the same about the original podcast, those people that do reach out are touched by the story that continues in your family. So it's a story of, you know, resiliency. My sister-in-law is a trauma specialist, and so she uses that word a lot, and it just means

the capacity to withstand or to recover from difficulties, you know, a certain flexibility. So but in that, here we are, you're able to talk about it. I think it does, it is of use to people somehow for what it's worth. Yeah, I think it is too. I think that's the main thing that was helping me get through all this, that it's helping other people too, not just myself and not just you, Danny, you know. Yeah. No, no, a hundred percent. Yeah.

Oh, well, mama, it does, it pains me to hear that you have this, this whole. This longing, yeah. Yeah, this longing that is as yet unfilled. And I just want you to know I love you very, very much. I love you too, yeah. Maybe though, Sandy, cause like Danny mentioned earlier, you never were able to articulate this longing

even to yourself. Maybe the fact now that this song kind of awoke this awareness of it in you, uh, doesn't mean that you're the longing will be fulfilled, but maybe there's been a hole that has been eating away at you without your knowledge. And just the fact of the awareness of it could possibly help in some way? That now you know what it is that you have been feeling without, you know, whereas previously it was a mystery? Yeah, and not only that, I think the fact that it's music and that I can play it and I can express, you know,

maybe I'll be better at expressing my feelings through the music, which I don't normally do because I'm so concentrated on getting the notes right. I took up playing the violin when I was like an adult. And so I didn't start as a kid. And so it's, you know, and then plus I had this thing where I can do things forward but not backwards. I can say the alphabet forwards but not backwards, and then I get lost with backwards directions. I mean, I don't know, it's some kind of learning disability that I've always had. And so how I had to cope with that with playing the

violin is I had to, I could read the notes going up, but backwards I had to play, I had to remember how my fingers, whether fingers were close or fingers were far away, I couldn't actually read the notes backwards. So I had to memorize them by my fingers, how my fingers are, you know, on the keyboard. Not the keyboard, but the, you know, the board that you put your fingers on the violin. Pete Slauson The bridge. Ruthie Larson Yeah, the bridge. Yeah. Jared Larson Well, if it's any consolation, I don't think

I could do the alphabet backwards. Pete Slauson I've been trying to do it since you said that and I got stuck in the TU area. So I might have the same condition that you have. Oh, I thought everybody could do that, and numbers backwards. No. I can't do that either.

No, listen, well, numbers backwards, at least. Well, I could count down, Holly, but directions backwards, I don't know that I've ever tried to do directions. Well, let's say you get- Unless you're just going back home. Well, Well, let's say you get directions going forward to somebody's house so you don't know where you're going. So you write them all down and then you drive there.

When I'm going home, I can't look at the directions that are forward and figure out how to make it go, how to do it backwards because it's not the same. You know what? Now that everybody has GPS, I don't think anybody can do it. That's an old school skill. When you said that, now it didn't even occur to me that that's what people used to have to do. You write the directions down.

Yeah, that's what I used to do. And you have to reverse them in your head. Yeah, I remember that. Oh yeah, I remember doing that when I was young. God, that's so wild. Yeah, I mean, I did that all the time because I could, and then I had to actually write out all the directions backwards

in order to figure it out to be able to do it because I couldn't just do it like other people could. So yeah. Where are you at now with learning this piece of music? You need to get the music and then you're going to practice it. I have the music and I'm going to practice it. So I mean I have it. I just got it.

You know, so. Boy, oh boy. I mean, we may have to record you performing this song. No, no, I'm not that good though. Not yet, not yet. But mom, it's not a, listen, isn't that the same thing that you were just saying before about all these excuses about I'm not smart enough, I'm not, you know, blah blah blah?

That's right. Like, the reality is, it's not about good or bad. It's about you expressing your voice. Yes, that's true. It would be wonderful. Don't you think it might be... Go ahead. It would be wonderful, I feel like, if I could do that, if I could actually play a piece

where I'm not... where I don't... you know, where I can play it without thinking about how I'm sounding to other people or, you know. I don't know. It's like it stops. I had one time I was going to play Schindler's List and I practiced and practiced it and it was in front of a bunch of people. And so I went to, you know, I had a friend that was playing the piano when somebody was going to play and I was going to play Schindler's List.

Well, I ended up like going there, I took my violin out and then somebody put a mic like right in front of my nose. And that freaked me out. And it freaked me out so much that I couldn't even remember how to start it, how to read the music or anything. And I just had to give up. So I get kind of scared of that that's going to happen. You know? Right. So. Well, maybe we can figure out a way that will not be an

intimidating environment. Yeah. Because I certainly want to hear you perform this piece when you're ready. Same here. Okay. And I bet a lot of people would. Okay. All right. Is it legal to do that without getting permission from the? Well, that's a good point. There are copyright issues we'll have to figure out, but maybe we'll put it on Patreon, I don't know. Okay, yeah. All right, mom.

Well, thank you for coming on and sharing that really powerful update. I really appreciate it. Thank you, Sandy, and nice to meet you. Nice to meet you too. Oh, it's so it. Thank you, Sandy. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you too. Oh, it's so nice. All right, bye-bye. Bye.

Bye. Bye. Wow, your mom, Dani. Yeah. Like, don't underestimate anyone. People are vast. Rafe Chase said that. People are vast.

Yeah, yeah, it's true. She just, but I feel like I keep on doing it in a way. I keep on being surprised by her. She keeps on revealing more of, more depth, you know, every time I talk to her, it's just nuts. That's wild, Danny, to me. I mean, in this, again, this dodgy enterprise we've set out upon with our families, that that's part of what has come out of this is your, how you see your mother. Oh, for sure.

Oh, for sure. That's a huge, huge part of it. That has changed so much from this process. But you're right though that we continue to underestimate her. I mean, like we can go within five minutes from chuckling at her technical shock of prowess, you know, but also how narrow-minded of us to associate technical prowess with meaning anything,

really other than technical prowess. A 77 year old's inability to handle, you know, microphones and links and you know, all that stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You being like, mom, you being like, mom you don't know how to check your email and you're just saying it with such judgment. I know, I know, such frustration.

She's like, okay, well I may not have had to do that, but I can look inward. That's right, I can level you with this insight that I had upon listening to a piece of music. Yeah, that's unbelievable. So next week we're moving on to episode eight, Albertson's Aspirin and Telling the Truth. You want to give us a little taste of what this is going to be? Yeah, I know this is a big one.

This is a big one, yeah. It's where my mom gets sort of the sweetest job of all. She lands a job at Albertson's. And then over the course of her time there, my mom gets sick. And yeah, we go from there. Yeah. Yeah. All right, so with that, let's listen to a clip of next week's episode.

Pete Lisa was married with kids by this time. Sheila was married too, and her firstborn Corey was going to be christened. So, we gathered up our mother and took her down to Mission San Luis Rey near Oceanside. She opted to wear a peach-colored calf-length dress with a matching floppy oversized bridesmaids hat. Dad was going to be at the ceremony, and mom joked that this was her last best chance to finally win him back. I remember one of the older women saying,

you already have. And everyone went, hmm, hmm, hmm, hmm, and nodded at the wisdom of this. But upon reflection, not only did this not make any sense, but the very idea of our parents being reunited made our blood run cold. Lest we forget, mom's doctors had allegedly equated

winning my father back with a literal death sentence and we all had had quite enough of that term lately. Thank you. How to Destroy Everything presents Toughen Up is written, performed and created by Stephen Kieran. Executive produced by Darren Grodzki and Danny Jacobs. In partnership with Eastman Productions and 333 Productions. Story editing by Lisa Blair and Sheila Stevens. Music mixing and mastering by Arlo Sanders.

Audio engineering by Glenn Eastman. Original theme music by Alan Simpson Original Artwork by Derek Yee Kitchen Pep Talk by Joyce Kieran Thanks to Helen, Diane and Steve, Bob and Carla, Art and Joyce, Dave, Sean and the DeTye family Special thanks to Mom, Dad, Lisa, Sheila and Joe For questions, feedback and of course any stories about Danny's dad, we can be reached at iknowrichardjacobs at gmail.com.

If you would like to support this podcast, please consider becoming a patron at www.patreon.com forward slash howtodestroyeverything and of course you can find us on Instagram and blue sky as well. How to Destroy Everything Presents Toughen Up is available on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Special thanks to Spotify Studios for the use of their beautiful recording space in downtown Los Angeles.