How To Destroy Everything - Interregnum: How to Destroy a Dating Profile

Episode Date: February 11, 2025

Wherein Danny and Darren dive deeper into Beth's relationship with Richard, which includes a shocking revelation that Danny's dad had been operating dating profiles on his sons' behalf. Additionally, Sandy discusses her dating life beyond Richard, and Darren checks in with Danny about his anger. For tickets to Danny's improv show at the Groundlings, head to www.groundlings.com/shows/theunderstudies. And if you would like to support this podcast, please consider becoming a patron at www.patreon.com/HowToDestroyEverything. Listen to HTDE on Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello! Wow. Too much. Good. Too much energy. Gracious. I was too excited, Darren. Too excited to start this interregnum.

Well, apparently, when you bring the energy, you deafen me. I need to, like, lower the volumes. And it wasn't even a word. It was like, hello! Yeah, hello is a word, actually. It was a word. So it's 100% a word. But it was said in such a way that it was indecipherable.

Anyway, hi everybody. Hi. Welcome to the Interregnum of How to Destroy Everything. Danny, why don't you tell them a little bit about this podcast they're listening to. I'd love to. Well, I'm sitting here opposite my best friend, Darren Gradsky, as we're going through the past and present of what

it was like to grow up with a malignant narcissist like my father, Mr. Richard Jacobs. That's right. And you, of course, are Danny Jacobs. Yes, I am Danny Jacobs, and you are Darren Gronsky. That's the second time you've mentioned my name, but that's fine. That's fine.

Let's front me in this story. But here we are. Last week, our listeners got to hear what you and I affectionately call the wives episode. Yes, yes, we did. As we spoke to your wife Katie and your brother's wife Beth. Now before we get into a little bit into that, which we are gonna get more of into it, more of into it to just throw a lot of prepositions at it. You're a real wordsmith. Just you know, if you're ever in doubt about what to do with your

language just add more prepositions. More prepositions. Just a couple of housekeeping things, as they say. Number one, we want to give a special shout out to two folks who are in our highest tier on our Patreon community, the Sendinistas Tour. Tier. Tier. Tier. You're on fire today.

By the way, patreon.com slash howtodestroyeverything. Join us there, won't you? Please. It's really helping us keep the lights on here and keep these episodes coming. The two people I want to give a shout out to are Julie Keating and Joe Dee, who are both on our highest tier on Patreon. Thank you a million times.

And just to be clear, that's someone named Joe, last initial D. You didn't just sort of dramatically throw a Joe Dee at him. I'm just trying to make sure I understand. Yes, thank you so, so much. And then I just sort of dramatically throw a Jodi at. No, no, no. I'm just trying to make sure I understand. Yeah. Yes. Thank you so, so much.

And then I believe we have another piece of housekeeping, Darren. We sure do. It's important for people to know. So this is a big deal, guys. We've been on this journey with you for quite some time, tracking through the story that is Richard Jacobs, this man here, Danny Jacobs.

There's your name, second time. Two to two. And the thing is is that you may have noticed that we've essentially caught up to the present day in terms of our main episodes. Which means that we are soon to be coming to the end of the first season of this podcast, How to Destroy Everything.

I mean, you know, in theory we could go on forever because the stories of Richard Jacobs are seemingly infinite. Yeah. But I'm pretty tired of you, Danny. I don't know how much longer, really, you know, I want to hear about you. That's fair. And so we just want everybody to know

that the final episode of season one of How to Destroy Everything is going to be coming with episode 16. That's right. So last week's episode was episode 12. That's right. So it gives you just some sense of what we're moving towards here. We're really excited about the rest of the season. Oh, yeah.

And I think it's gonna be a really satisfying kind of end to this chapter. Don't tell them how to feel. I wouldn't dare. Let them feel how they're gonna feel. All right. So what we wanna do next in this interregnum, before we talk to Sandy, we'll be speaking with Sandy

a little bit later. But last week in the Wives episode, speaking of endless stories of Richard Jacobs, we talked to your sister-in-law, Beth. And she had just an absolute treasure trove of- Plethora. Myriad. With at two in.

Prepositions. Of... Myriad. With at two in. Prepositions. Stories about Richard Jacobs. And we simply could not fit them all into the episode. And there are a few that I think are extra special that we wanted to share with you all here in this interregnum. Yep. So without further ado...

Let's do it. Dive back into Beth. Maybe that time or another time, I went into his house, which was like a whole experience. Yeah, tell us about that. So I'm not sure if it was this trip or a different trip, but he brought us in. And as you remember,

you kind of have to like step over garbage and we're talking like whatever, TLC hoarders house level garbage. And there's kind of just like a pathway through the house. And I had heard about the aquarium that never worked and he had done, and he had done all these actually kind of like cool little things for like the eighties. Like you could set the temperature on the shower.

Do you, I don't know if you remember that. Oh yeah, oh, I remember that for sure. And he did it all, like he did it all himself. And he had like a bunch of- This is like before you could buy stuff like that. Yeah, oh, I remember that for sure. And he did it all, like he did it all himself. And he had like a bunch of- This is like before you could buy stuff like that. Yeah, yeah, I mean, it was quite sophisticated for the eighties when he did it. And essentially, as there was one room in the house

at the time that was functional, and that was the living room with like the classic 70s, like orange or turquoise carpet, something like that. I remember that. And he walked me in and he was like showing me this room and we sat down and I think the chair, like the seat of the chair was completely busted. So like you couldn't even sit on a chair

and you felt like you were walking into just this time capsule of like a seventies, eighties room that just had not been touched and it's just covered in newspaper. Wow that's amazing that it didn't occur to me that like yeah I remember that vividly from the 90s but here you are you know a decade later in the in the aughts and he never updated the carpet he never updated any of it. No no nothing and this is the first time I was at his house and he walks over to the fireplace and I I think this was in the summer, okay?

I remember it was warm out. This was in the summer and he walks to the fireplace and he has a bunch of like holiday gifts that he had bought and was sitting there that basically people wouldn't accept from him. And so he's like, and these are the holiday gifts that I got from my mother, but she won't accept them from me. Like, you know, the subtext is, isn't that sad?

Yeah. Yeah. That is, that is such a great detail. First of all, that, that, that would be one of the first things that he would want to talk to you about it. Yes. That's a great point. And that, and that he, he sort of had it displayed because I remember that too.

Like, and that wasn't just for you. Like he would have those unaccepted gifts, just on permanent display over the mantle forever. And it's just like, what a weird thing to kind of want always a reminder of, that like, oh yeah, my mom wouldn't accept a holiday gift from me. And are you thinking, when you're going,

I mean, I know you were prepped, but when you're sort of going through this house like this, I mean, is it worse than you had imagined? Is it like, how are you feeling about it? I mean, I have a lot of complex emotions about your dad. I think he, in a lot of ways was incredibly charming. He was clearly bright and exceedingly intelligent, but also very sad.

And I knew he was mentally ill and I knew he was having health struggles that we never understood the full extent of. Like he would just hide things like his hospitalizations and medical things, or he would use them when it was convenient, when he needed to drum up sympathy or worry or upset, like feeling upset to get attention.

Yeah. So to answer your question, it was worse than I thought. And the other thing is he clearly was having some worsening health things than I thought. Like the whole thing, the whole place smelled like pee. And so he was clearly having issues with that. And I walked in and you know, there's also parallels because my dad also had like uncontrolled diabetes and all these health issues. So I walked into his house and I was like,

oh my God, this is dirty. He's gonna get an infected foot ulcer. He's gonna fall. Like how can we optimize? Obviously you can't fix the house. It was, you know, ultimately it had to be torn down from the bare bones. But I was like, what can we do to like,

make it like to minimize the harm to him? And it surprised me that he was living like that. Beth, I remember you were gonna, I think you were gonna tell the story of my grandma's funeral with the food. Oh, gosh. Yeah. I'm trying to think, did you guys already talk about, like, a similar behavior that Darren's parents had experienced?

We did. Yes. At Darren's Shiva. There was no big argument. It was just, we realized that he was, he was just there for the food and was there for the entirety of the Shiva. Like several days worth, yeah. So when, you know, your grandmother got sick and she had a stroke and she was like,

basically your dad went to the hospital and at some point, like him and his sister got into it and they got into like a physical altercation at the hospital where security was called. Oh my God. Wow. Like he had a newspaper, he accused her of stealing it, he was trying to get into her purse,

she like, like there was like a whole thing. Jesus. And so they were already not on great terms. And this is kind of what happened right on the cusp of her being in the hospital and eventually dying. And then for the Shiva, your aunt kind of took care of everything and she came and was like putting the food in bags.

Yeah. I remember this. To take home for himself. To take home, yeah, because he wanted the roast beef in the lots. Kind of tilting these big plates of food and just letting it all fall into a bag, yeah. Yeah.

Wait, now was this in the middle of the Shiva or is it at the end of the day? Yes. It's in the middle, it's like people are sitting around. I remember, I think it was in the middle, right? Yeah, because she's like, I'm not gonna have enough, like, you know, like you can't take all this.

He's like, you have enough. And I was not there. I was there. Yeah, I was working. And so, you know, your brother kind of went, said goodbye to her. And I think it was all quickly, right? Like it was just like, we thought something was happening.

She died. And then the Shiva's like all within several days. Yes, exactly. And then, oh God, I don't know if you remember this. So then at the funeral, you throw flowers and everyone puts like a handful of dirt is my understanding. Yes, onto the casket. And so everyone in like the main family will get a flower. But we like roll up and your aunt has a dozen red roses and your dad

had a dozen white roses. And they were like fighting over what color rose the family was going to do. Okay. It's the war of the roses. It's the war of the roses. And the thing is, is like, your aunt had organized this to the extent, financed it, planned it, got all these ducks in a row. And he comes and like, you know, physically accosts her in the hospital, takes her roast beef, and then tries to knock her out of her plan

to like do the white rose. And they're like, they're both trying to like hand me these roses. To like, no, you're, you know. Dueling roses during the funeral, that is just. Which rose do you take? Oh my God, yeah, it's the bachelor. It's a death bachelor.

Oh my God, it's the worst version of the bachelor. You know, look, the only thing I'll say is in my dad's defense, in all that, is... I mean, you know, like, people also do weird shit when their parents die. And there's, you know, I'm sure that he and my aunt were dealing with all kinds of crazy emotions. And I wonder, deep, deep down, if there was something helpful. This is gonna be a weird thing to say,

but helpful about even for these brief moments when they're fighting, not having to think about how their mom just died. Yeah, interesting. That like, you know, there's something probably, they're continuing a cycle that they had since they were kids. Yeah.

And there's something deeply, you know, deep, way deep, deep down sort of comforting about that. Yeah, it's kind of, yeah, they're on their autopilot behaviors, so they don't have to really think about it. I mean, your dad was just like the perfect villain. I mean, like, you know, and like, I appreciate that. I don't think people had heart to heart-heart conversations about like the emotional turmoil that being

adjacent to him caused in one's life. But like we talked about it a lot because I mean that stuff was crazy. How to Destroy Everything is brought to you by Rocket Money. Danny, I'm a recent joiner of Rocket Money. I have to tell you about a crazy experience. Oh please. So on the Rocket Money platform, it told me that I am paying too much for my internet. That was nice of it. Extremely nice and informative. So I called my internet service provider and I said, hey, I think I'm paying too much for my internet.

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Rocketmoney.com slash destroy. Are there any other stories, Beth, that you can think of that... I mean there's... Okay. mean, there's so many. So I ended up being induced with my first kid, and we were just totally mouth closed about the due date, about the plan, about anything. And he pushed and he prodded and he asked and just kind of like, nope, nope, we're not talking about that. that's not your business, nope, sorry, sorry, sorry.

And so I was in labor and like progressing, like almost ready to start pushing. And the other context of this is like, I delivered where I trained. And so all these nurses and doctors and people at the hospital had been hearing stories about, oh my gosh, like what happened when you went to St. Louis? Oh my God, like what happened at your wedding?

What happened when you got engaged? And so everyone was kind of like anticipating potential shenanigans. And so my nurse, who was of course like, you know, like a friend and colleague that I've had for years came in and she's like, Beth, we have a phone call from your doctor. And I was like, what?

And she starts like giggling and she's like, we have a phone call. We just got a phone call in from Dr. Crown and he's wondering if he can get an update on your like labor status. Dr. Crown. Dr. Crown. Oh my God. That is amazing. And you knew right away. Oh yeah Dr. Crown. Oh my God.

That is amazing. And you knew right away. Oh yeah, oh yeah. Like we're all like half laughing, but it also was like a little invasive. Like, you know, you're a little vulnerable, like giving birth and you know, he's calling to get updates.

And this is the thing, right? It's just like, we were so careful. We were so direct. We held these boundaries and it didn't matter. It didn't matter, he still got the information. I know, that's the thing, he still finds a way. And this is health information. This is health information,

which is like, it's against the law to share it. There's literally laws to protect this information from getting into other people's hands. And he still managed to like, you know, manipulate whoever to get the information, to get the phone number, to know what we were in. people's hands. And he still managed to like, you know, manipulate whoever to get the information, to get the phone number, to know what we were in. That's what's so fascinating is like, what were the steps he took?

Who was he calling? Who was he pretending to be? How did he get that information? Oh, so speaking of, so I listened to your podcast and it totally reminded me, you guys were talking about his little command center and like, I don't remember if you walked through the house, but do you remember above the garage,

how he had that area that like wasn't quote livable because he didn't want to get taxed on it. But like he basically- The unfinished room? The unfinished room that he never finished because then it would be considered part of his square footage and his taxes would go up. Oh, I didn't know that's why he didn't finish it.

Yeah, because when you're looking at, like how much a house is worth, they look at like usable square footage. And so if he finished it by adding like, like heating and air conditioning, then that would increase this. I mean, that was a big room. It covered the entire garage. So it increases square footage of the house substantially,

which is why he never did it. I didn't know that that was the reason that makes Purples perfect sense. And purple sense. The family that lives there now, by the way, has finished it. And that's where we hung out and did that neighbor interview. And it is gorgeous. I'm sure.

It's a great space. It's a nice big space. It's very open. So your dad had that as his command center for all of his paperwork stuff. And so I don't know if you remember this, if this happened after you had left, but I was looking through stuff and I found a stamp that had the Missouri Secretary of State stamp.

Whoa. Wow. I'm like, this is his forgery center. I was telling you about it. I'm like, this is his forgery center set up. I had never been into that part of the house before. Like for as many times as we kind of went in and out, I had never seen that part of the house. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And he just had like all this equipment to like forge stuff. Yeah, I mean, I knew that he had stolen a notary stamp at some point and was using that, but that feels like he's using it to create official like government documents. He's creating official documents. You know, he had a social security, like he had using it to create official government documents. He's creating official documents. He had a social security, he had a driver's license that didn't have his picture

on it. So he had an official driver's license that didn't have a picture on it, which is against the rules of driver's license. But I think he probably went to enough DMVs with a letter from the secretary of state of Missouri being like, hey, give him a driver's license without a photo. Oh, wow.

So his actual driver's license did not have his photo on it. That's amazing. And his social security card, like for Medicare, did not have his social security number on it. Like somehow, he managed to convince these huge agencies that are very policy-oriented to drop certain policies. It's supposed to have, I think everyone's Medicare card has their social security number

on it. There was some number that he managed to get dropped off, and then he had an ID without his photo on it. Wow. Man, God. It's so impressive in a way. It's like, things that should be impossible, he was able to get done. Right, but like also it's cause he wasn't working.

I mean, he spent all his time. I mean, he was obsessed with this stuff. I was gonna say that was a funny thing. And then the other funny thing is when we're going through the house, I found like an old OkCupid profile of me, like printed out. Oh, yeah. And this was from like, you know, 15 years before

or something like that. And he had it like in his little computer room. And he, you know, I don't know if you're gonna talk about like the rogue J-Date accounts that were put up in you and your brother's names. Well, yeah, that was, I was just, wait a second. I was just, I just had a memory of my dad on like

various holidays would just keep gifting me a free JDate account. No way. He had a JDate account for your brother after we were dating for years. What? Wait, tell me about that. So I don't know all the details about this, but my understanding is that he opened a JD account on behalf of your brother, and it stayed active well into our relationship. Did he fill it out?

Did my dad fill it out? I think your dad was communicating with people. Whoa. It's like if he wanted to arrange a marriage, basically, he was gonna make sure that he found a good Jewish girl for his boys. Yeah. He probably had one for you, Dani.

He probably did. Yeah, I bet he did. Holy moly. Who knows how many, if there are any women out there who interacted with Dani Jacobs on JDay in the early 2000s, please reach us at I know Richard Jacobs at gml.com. Maybe no. That is wild.

Well, evidently Dani, hely, Danny, he was trying to get you this subscription there, and maybe he was going to present you with a bunch of options in that subscription, I should say, to JDate. Yeah. I mean, look, I obviously never took him up on his offer to use his subscription to JDate because I

guessed that that's what was going to be going on. But the fact that he would do it anyway is really surprising. Not surprising though. Disturbing. No, not surprising. Just disturbing. Yeah, it's interesting because I think if you're looking at the dichotomy between you and my husband of kind of accepting versus rejecting, you know, there's some like fringe benefits for having someone like that in your life.

You know, like, oh, I got a ticket. This is not fair. And like, he would, he was like a bulldog, you know, like he was like, he would not let things go and he would help you. I'm so glad that you mentioned that because, oh my God, wait, first of all, guys, I've been looking for old emails about JDate and I just found one from my dad on June 1st, 2020.

It says, hi, Danny, I may in quotes, be able to get a special promotional certificate offer for JDate for one year at 99.95. If you ever decide to like to join it. Wait, 2020 or 2000? 2010. 2010, okay. 2010.

If you ever just, I may be able to get you a special promotion certificate offer for JDate for one year at 99.95. If you ever decide you would like to join it, you know how grandma and I would like you to date Jewish girls. And it seems like the best Jewish dating set around. However, and the word however is in red, I am not going to go to the trouble to try to get one of these promotional J-Date offers unless, and unless is capitalized and in red, you indicate you want me to go ahead and try. Just thought I'd

let you know. And then, uh, and then, and he says love dad and the dad is in capitals and red and italicized. That sounds right. And the thing is, is dad. And the dad is in capitals and red and italicized. Yeah, that sounds right. And the thing is, he would also do that not in actual using markers and stuff. Right. Like before computers. He would do the same thing but with markers and highlighters.

So I replied, and then I just said, I do not and never will. Thanks. Love, Danny. You guys each ending these angry emails with love dad and love Danny is cracking me up right now. It's fantastic. There's so many things I want to do and see. Like redoing the basement without having to do it all myself. Or doing absolutely nothing with a spectacular waterfall view of course. So I starting here, investing with RBC.

When it comes to reaching your goals, personalized advice and performance matter. And now, you can get $300 when you invest with RBC. Offer ends March 3rd, 2025. Terms and conditions apply. Invest with RBC today. Oh, God. Back in the studio now. Oh, God, that was great. One of the reasons why I'm just listening back to those extra interviews just now that

I loved about it was that it brought back up some of the real OG Richard Jacobs stuff from the very beginning of this podcast. Oh yes, playing the hits. You're right. The forgery station, that extra room over the garage. Just reminding me about some of the insanity because it's hard to keep it all in your head. New stuff too, like the J-Date.

The fact that your dad was sitting in his house, probably in that bonus room in his house, operating J-Date accounts for both you and your brother and interacting with women on your behalf, that's crazy. Oh God, what a dream. Also the messages between you and your dad, these emails, like I'm really stuck on that. I wish I could just see a compilation of all of the emails. And I deleted so many from my... When my dad passed away, I was just like...

That's right. I just did a search and find and I deleted a ton of stuff. Yeah. You didn't know we'd be doing a podcast about it. I didn't know. I wish I knew. One other thing though that I wanted to talk about that I was thinking about while listening to that was, you know, there's that stuff in there where to talk about that I was thinking about while listening to that was,

there's that stuff in there where we talk about my grandma's funeral and the hospital when my grandma was dying and the physical fight that my aunt Karen and my dad got into and then the rose stuff. And one of the things that I thought was interesting is that I actually came to the defense of my dad in a way there. You did, you did. about how he was in mourning about the mother time? Yes

But what I was just thinking about now was a little bit more about My aunt about Karen and about how I don't know I guess I was thinking about how you know beyond just oh these are two siblings that are kind of trying to find comfort in something I beyond just, oh, these are two siblings that are kind of trying to find comfort in something. I also think there might be something to the idea that, you know, it probably was much easier for her to be angry at my dad than to feel sadness about the death of her mother, you know? And I just think that I was just thinking about how much she must have gone through in her life

to have... There must be so much pain there that she didn't want to touch, to just be like, OK, I'd rather just be so furious with my brother than to end a deal, than to touch this in any real way. And then I started, I'm starting to think now, I'm also thinking about, you know, what we've been talking about Karen in this podcast, about how she's been angry at me.

It's like, it's a similar thing. It's like, I wonder if her anger at me is, again, just another way of her not being so scared of... This is just my opinion, of course, but being so scared of what it would feel like to mourn something and to really think and feel the pain. Well, what's undeniable to me is that she went through so much growing up with Richard Jacobs.

Yeah. And that is with her at all times. That is what she brings to everything. And you're right, when you're saying that, like, and I'm thinking about that sequence of events that Beth talked about getting into a physical fight at the hospital, and then, you know, he's taking the food from the Shiva and this war of the roses. Like, here she is, her mother has died, and there it is again. Like just that man who has been a minute her whole life. I see what you're saying. And then the podcast, there he is again.

There he is again. Right, Jesus. You know, I am, I guess I'm, yeah, I'm feeling a little bit more empathy for her. Not in terms of the choices that she's made to lash out at me. Sure, yes. But at least a recognition of what she has gone through.

I mean. What I would say is that I don't condone the choices she's made to lash out at you, but I maybe do understand them a little bit. Yeah, I mean. What I would say is that I don't condone the choices she's made to lash out at you, but I maybe do understand them a little bit. Yeah, I do. I do, wow, that's interesting. You know, I'm thinking about, again, you know, we haven't talked about it in a while,

but how the last text that I sent to Karen ended with, you will die alone. We sure did talk about that, yes. And I haven't done anything with that since then, but I don't know, I kind of feel like maybe I should text her again. Not to restart anything, but to just make sure that that's not the last thing that I say to her. Wow. Maybe it's time that I do that, you know? Yes, I think that's great. Yeah, okay.

It makes me very anxious just thinking about doing that, but I think it needs to be done. So okay, well stay tuned for that, folks. Let me ask you one question with regard to Karen and what we were just talking about and thinking about the two different approaches to your dad between you and Karen. She has chosen to ignore your father, almost the existence of him, not talk about him. Right, that's why she's been so mad about this podcast. Exactly, because it makes it harder. Yeah, and then of course you have chosen to do the opposite.

Yeah. This is a weird question, because most of the time, we think what we do is right. But I guess I'll ask, do you think the choice that you've made is the right choice? Ha ha ha. Ha ha. Um, I mean, look, I would, I don't know.

I don't know. I don't know. I mean, what I'll say is, like, if, you know, if the goal is to kind of move beyond something, okay? I don't think that Karen has actually achieved that by ignoring my dad's existence. Like to me, the degree of anger that she has that is clearly in there, to me is a canary in the coal mine like that is coming out in other ways, whether you want it to or not. It reminds me of when we spoke with your therapist, who talked about how whether you knew all this stuff

or not, your body knew. And you felt it in your body, and like you're processing now through this podcast, all that happened in ways that hopefully will enable you to move on from it, so that you're not haunted by it. Yeah, I mean like for me that's that is what I'm trying to do. I feel like look I'm not gonna if she if Karen wants to handle things the way she works for her just like we've been talking about with my mom and how she doesn't you know for her

what could work and I think my therapist even mentioned that in the episode that she was in which is like, this depends on the person. But I think given that my goal is to kind of move through it and leave it behind, I think the only way to leave it behind, quote unquote, is to make a podcast about it. Is to make a podcast about it. So, mission accomplished. What have I done?

What have I wrought? Well, I think that's really great that you're going to text her. And I will be curious what you text her. And if there's any response. I don't expect that she's going to respond. I don't either. But stay tuned, listeners.

We'll check back in on this later. Speaking of different people processing things differently. What a weird and kind of good transition. You mentioned your mom and I think it's time for, look, let's be honest, what pretty much everyone's favorite part of this podcast is. When is Sandy Jacobs coming on? Shut up, YouTube. Bring on the star. Well, the answer is star Is now folks play the music because here she is the one and only Sandra Sandy Jacobs

Hi mom, hi Danny. How you doing? I'm doing quite well. Thanks. Hi Sandy. Hi Darren. How are you? I'm doing alright Thank you for asking great. So mom Thanks for coming on the pod. We've got a couple of things that I wanted to talk about. First is a subject somebody actually brought up, I think on Patreon, somebody asked a question about it. I was like, oh, that's maybe something for us to discuss, which is your dating life beyond dad, after dad.

Oh. What do you want to, what can you say about that? I dated Joe, a guy named Joe, for about five years afterwards. Five years? That's a long time. Yeah. I remember him. Yeah.

I remember not liking him at all. Oh, really? Why? I just remember having a deep dislike for him I don't know if it was you know, it's a typical thing of how could he live up to your father No, he but he was very honest and very nice Wait, but I mean, I mean didn't he like insert himself into a lot of the goings on with our family? Only once that I remember, and it was when Taryn was getting married over at Grandma and Grandpa's house, apartment.

And it happened to be a snowstorm. And I couldn't drive you over there. I was afraid. And so I called him and he came out all the way from where he lived, wherever it was. And then we all went in his truck and he took you to the wedding. They were so mad that they wanted you to come.

And I just, they wouldn't come and get you, but I was too scared to drive so that so that's what happened I thought it was very nice that he did that man deep down I have some something that was like man this guy is not a good dude let me ask you this Andy was he it's I think the answer is no but I just want to ask was was he at all like Richard? No. Hmm. The opposite, like if I ever thought he was lying to me, I would confront him and he wasn't bossy at all. And he figured out right away

that I didn't like talking on the phone very much. So I met him and then he started calling me and I just didn't like that, where somebody would call me all the time. So he would call me and make a date with me and then that would be it. And then we'd go out on a date and then we'd talk. Were you at all anxious about starting another relationship after the tumultuous one that you had gotten out of? Yeah, but that's why I thought he was a very good guy

down to earth. So what happened? So what happened in the relationship? After a while, I just figured, he didn't wanna get married and I really didn't either, but he talked about it like he just didn't, I asked him if he wanted to get married because it was five years of we dated.

And I thought that if he didn wanted to get married, because it was five years that we dated. And I thought that if he didn't want to get married, maybe I would go and start looking for somebody else. And he didn't want to get married, so I broke up with him. And then I would try with other guys, but nobody, I mean, I liked him more because he was so honest and down to earth and we did fun things and not confrontive. That's really interesting.

I had always been under the assumption that dad ruined men for you, but that's not. He did, he did, but not, but in the, like he did in a way because after a while I felt more comfortable just not ever dating anybody. So you're saying there's still like a vestige of that old idea, you knew at that point that you needed to be with somebody,

you needed to be with a man, you needed to be married. And so that was still kind of like, maybe sort of running on fumes, but it was still sort of running as a thought. Yeah, and you know what I could, later on I thought about, I could have just kept dating him and then not just not ever get married. Right. You know, just dating him. And then, but then at the time I thought about, I could have just kept dating him and then just not ever get married.

Just dating him. But then at the time I was thinking, well, I'm getting older and maybe I should start dating other people. With the prospect of getting married. With the prospect of getting married. And then eventually after that, you're like, wait a second, why am I still kind of-

Yeah, why am I doing this? I feel like I'm more comfortable. I didn't like going to dances and things like that. I tried some of those things. And I did go out with another guy for a short time, but I didn't like him, so I stopped. And then I started feeling like, even though some of my friends says,

let's go to these dances, I would say, I'm kind of comfortable just the way I am. Do you think that if Joe had wanted to get married, you would have married him? No, I just, no, I probably wouldn't have. I mean, he was the best that I could find then, but I probably wouldn't have. Why not? He just wasn't everything I wanted, you know, I guess. I don't know. Is it possible that you didn't quite know what you wanted at that point?

I mean, your life had been torn asunder, you know what I mean? Yes, that's true. Yeah. But it feels like to me, the story that you're telling is sort of like... When you divorce dad, you kind of, at at first sort of fell back into the same grooves that you were familiar with in your single life prior to dad.

You're like, okay, now I'm single. This is what single women do of my generation. This is what the goal is, I'm married. It's like that all came back, flooding back to you. And then over time, you started to realize, wait a second, maybe these grooves are not the grooves that I wanna be in. The man, I mean looking for marriage.

Yeah. Yes. Or even being with a man at all. But if I had the right man, I probably could have. But you stopped looking. I know, yeah. I stopped looking, yeah. So something in you was like, this is not what I wanna do.

It seems like if you wanted to do it, you would have put effort into that. Yeah, and I know some people my age who are still wanting to meet somebody and get married. And how does that feel to you? I don't want it. That's how I feel, yeah. I mean, that's interesting though.

I think that a lot of people, they really, really want that companionship, someone to be with on a daily basis. I am afraid of that. Of what? Of having a companionship that's not working, and then I'm stuck with them. I am afraid. Having gone through Richard, that's that is sort of with you.

Right. And then I'm also afraid of meeting somebody and really liking them. And then I end up having to take care of them, you know, like for years and years and years. There was also a few things that you wanted to bring up, I believe. Some new insight that you had about grandma. Yeah. So all that, like I saw how much you loved grandma and how much you respected her and how she helped you. And so I started to think differently about her. Because you had a lot of anger towards her.

I had a lot of anger for her. Yeah. And I started to think differently about her. I thought, you know, she was trying to make up for stuff that was going on and help you. And I shouldn't really be so angry. You know, I don't think she was doing, when she did things to me,

she was really trying to help you, you know, I guess. So yeah, so, you know, I'm not really angry at her anymore. Wow. Wow. It just happened like that? Yes. And you actually, when you think about her now, you really don't feel that anger anymore?

Right. Wow. That's incredible. And actually I'm sort of jealous. I'm like, cause like, you know, I think there's, there's something that I've been thinking about as this podcast is moving on in terms of my relationship to anger, anger about my dad and wondering how that goes away or how do you just, what do I do with that anger?

And it's like, it's kind of remarkable. Well, with dad, it's kind of different with you. I mean, with me and Sylvia, once I understood what she was doing, and that was how she reacted. And I remember thinking like years ago, if I used to think about her and I used to think, if she didn't seem to understand how sick Richard was, and so she would always take his side. So she didn't seem to understand it. So I used to think, I used to hope that someday she would understand

it. Because I think she had a resentment with me. You wanted justice. You wanted her to see. Just for her to understand. But that's so interesting because my feeling about it is that I think she probably understood... Understood, is what she's looking for. ...understanded, yeah. Good Lord. That she probably understand even more intimately how sick Dad was.

Well, I didn't think she... And how does a mother not understand, you know, I mean, I guess you're saying that maybe she didn't want to understand, maybe she was a willful... Yes, yes. But I just sort of... Yeah, go ahead. One time she said to me, when we were trying to go to counseling and get back together, and then he did something, that thing that made me actually decide to divorce him, which

was signing over the house of somebody else and not being truthful about it, you know, in counseling. So I decided to file for divorce. And then she said to me, I don't know why you're doing this because he is trying so hard. No matter what he tries, this is what she said, no matter what he tries, it's not good enough for you.

And so I felt like she didn't understand, you know. How do you feel now? Now I think she didn't understand. How do you feel now? Now I think she didn't understand, and that was why she did it. But she did understand at the end because she had some problems with him. Yeah, he sued her. She had such great problems with him

that she didn't even wanna talk to him. Yeah, he sued her and then they didn't talk. I know. Then she understood. I also wonder though... He understood. Yeah, I also wonder though, if she actually did understand, even when she was saying that to you, but this was her son and she was his mother.

That's how I think. Oh, that could be. That's what I think. So I still, but either way... You know the other thing though, and I think is like, she always had my interests at heart. Like even if, you know, there was no time, and I think is like, she always had my interests at heart. Like even if, you know, there was no time, there would be, there was not a single moment

that I can recall where she would like take dad's perspective over mine. I mean, she was always looking out for me. Right. Well then why would she say that to me then? No matter what he tries, whether what he does is not good enough for you. I would say that she had, you know,

Danny was probably, and then your brother, she had you in, let's say, position one, but Richard was in position two, that is her son, and unfortunately, Sandy, my interpretation is that you were, you know, Way down the list. Yes, way down the list. And you know, you breaking up the family unit in her mind, you know, was bad for everyone.

And she probably saw the pain that it caused dad. She probably saw him getting worse. And she was angry at herself and wanted to blame somebody. You know what I mean? Yes. It's hard to blame your own son. I know. You know, you love him so son. I know. You love him so much.

I know. Yeah. But back to this, I mean, I just think that, yeah, like Dani, I think still has anger. And the fact that you were able to have this realization and the anger just sort of washed away. It just dissipated. Frankly, it's inspiring.

Yeah, it really is, mom. That this kind of progress can be made. It's incredible. So the last thing I wanted to mention, Mom, because I think it's just adorable, is that we've got our live show coming up back in St. Louis on February 13th, and we've been selling tickets. And you texted me and asked me

if you needed to buy a ticket to the live show. You did? Yeah. Oh. And I just think it's, I just wanted to say, because I just think it's wonderful, I mean, that you would consider that there would be some world in which you would not, you, there is,

this show probably doesn't exist without you. It does. And you're like, well, do I need to fork up, you know? You're the star of the show, Sandy. But actually, yes, that'll be $500. And we can't guarantee you a seat. Yeah. It is sold out, that's right. Yeah.

Well, I guess I thought it would save you some money. No. That you wouldn't be paying. You know how I do when I come in and I want to save you money? Yes, I do. For not paying. OK, well, that was, I thought, well, maybe I should buy the ticket and it would save you some money. Yes, I do. For not paying. Okay, well that was, I thought, well maybe I should buy the ticket

and it would save you some money. You are very, very sweet. That is so sweet. Sandy, you are an inspiration and the star of the podcast and you are simply the best. Now why don't you give the audience what they've been waiting for, a little sneak peek at next week's episode?

I don't know what it is. You could say something like, here's a sneak peek at next week's episode. I don't know what it is. You could say something like, here's a sneak peek at next week's episodes. Oh, I thought you wanted me to make some comment about the episode. Well, you haven't heard it yet, but you can speculate. Yeah, okay. What do you think next week's episode's gonna be about, Mom?

Your brother. That's right. Yep, that is right. Next week, we finally, finally sit down the Brothers Jacobs and have a conversation. So you want to, you want to tee up the clip? Here's a clip from next week's episode. Delightful. I mean, the reality is he is still a person.

Right. I mean, you know, whether he's a narcissist, whether he's, you know, schizotypal, whatever it is he had, you know, I believe that's a therapist, but I mean, you know, are those people still entitled to, you know, love or do they still not hurt? I mean, it's still, he's still a person and, you know, there is still some redeeming quality in him. I mean, at least I was able to see it, or at least I felt like I was.

But it sounds like you're almost more willing to accept the damage that he could do because he was someone that you believed could not control that damage. That like if it was somebody else who you felt maybe could control the kind of damage they did on the world or the people around them, it's here, it's sounding to me like you would be less forgiving of them. Is that true? Absolutely. Check us out at Apple, Spotify, and wherever you get your podcasts. And if you have any stories to share about Richard Jacobs, you can reach us at Iknowrichardjacobs at gmail.com.

Also, I'm gonna be honest with you guys, we need all the help we can get. So if you wanna support this podcast, please consider joining our Patreon at patreon.com slash howtodestroyeverything. That's P-A-T-R-E-O-N. Yeah, we have all kinds of stuff we're gonna share. Pictures, videos, all kinds of special treats

for our patrons. Also, please find us on our social, specifically Instagram, at How to Destroy Everything. You can also find me personally there at Danny A. Jacobs. Special shout out to Spotify Studios for hosting us in this beautiful studio space in downtown Los Angeles.