How To Fail With Elizabeth Day - A How to Fail Miniseries: Yinka Bokinni

Episode Date: November 25, 2020

For the next four weeks, we'll be introducing you to four 'ordinary' people with four extraordinary stories as part of a one-off How To Fail miniseries in partnership with Grey Goose.First up: Yinka Bokinni, a radio DJ who grew up on the North Peckham Estate in South London. She was the childhood friend of Damilola Taylor, the 10-year-old schoolboy stabbed to death in a stairwell on his way back from the library in 2000. Yinka joins me to talk about how this experience shaped her, why Damilola was so much more than the 'tragic victim' the media portrayed him as and how her resilience and passion for justice has been forged as a result. She also talks about her Nigerian and Irish upbringing, her love of Judge Judy (a podcast first) and the importance of celebrating everyday moments of connection by living victoriously. Yinka is such a beacon of optimism and hope that this was a truly uplifting interview. I hope you enjoy it. *I have a new book out! Failosophy: A Handbook For When Things Go Wrong contains two-and-bit years worth of accumulated wisdom from my fantastic podcast guests. I'd love it if you bought a copy. Also: they make EXCELLENT gifts imho.*How To Fail With Elizabeth Day is hosted by Elizabeth Day, produced by Naomi Mantin and Chris Sharp. We love hearing from you! To contact us, email [e-mail] You can buy our fantastic PODCAST MERCH here.*Social Media:Elizabeth Day @elizabdayHow To Fail @howtofailpod Yinka Bokinni @yinkabokinni Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Let's go seize the night. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Visit amex.ca slash yamex. Benefits vary by card. Other conditions apply. This special one-off mini-series of How to Fail is sponsored by Grey Goose. Grey Goose believe in live victoriously because life, as we know, is full of moments, big and small, planned and spontaneous, and those moments need something worthy of the occasion. They deserve to be celebrated. Grey Goose does just this, a vodka of unique quality, expertly crafted for smoothness and exceptional taste, made with the finest

ingredients, single origin Picardy wheat and spring water from natural limestone. A distinctive vodka made without compromise to elevate any moment, Grey Goose brings fun and positivity whatever the occasion you're marking, because when you live victoriously, you transform those moments into lasting memories. Thank you very much to Grey Goose, and please drink responsibly. Hello, it's Elizabeth Day here, and welcome to this one-off special mini-series of How to Fail. Now, one of the things that you wonderful listeners have repeatedly asked me to do is to feature normal people as guests on the podcast. But of course, there's no such thing as a normal person. We are all unique and interesting and resilient and contradictory and loving and wise and funny and sad and experienced in our own particular ways. We all have our stories to

tell. So in the next four episodes, I'm doing something slightly different. You'll hear from people who aren't necessarily household names about who they are and the moments that shaped them. You'll hear from them about what it means to live victoriously. It's a different format from usual. We're not discussing three failures, but we are talking about resilience and what it means to live a fulfilled life. We're talking about difficulties that have been overcome, lessons that have been learned, gratitude that has been earned, and the joy of celebrating the everyday. This is How to Fail as you've never heard it before. Ordinary people, extraordinary stories, four weeks, four different lives. Because we can learn from everyone if we just listen carefully enough. Today's guest is Yinka Bukini. My name is Yinka Bukini. I am a 31-year-old

broadcaster from South London. Yinka, welcome to the podcast. It is such a pleasure to have you on. Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it. You said there that you grew up in South London and I would love to know what was your earliest childhood memory? My earliest childhood memory may be a fabrication, but I believe I was maybe four years old. And I remember my mum was moving furniture around in our living room, a sofa. I was sitting on it. She pushed it and I'm sure I fell off. So your mum was a pretty strong woman? Oh yeah, she was only maybe five foot two, but she had the strength of six men in those arms.

Now, I said that you grew up in South London, but more specifically, you grew up on North Peckham Estate, which is a place that many of us will have heard of for negative reasons. It got a lot of negative media coverage. I'm very interested in the fact that you have very different recollections from the media perception. So talk to us about what your youth was like on the estate. I think you're so right. It definitely has got such a bad rep. And it's almost like a horror story in terms of where it is, what the people on North Peckham were supposed to be like

and the activities that took place there. But for me, I remember ice lollies and the sound of the ice cream van. I remember running along landings with my friends because everything that we kind of did was up on the landings, up on upper levels. So in our estate, we never had to leave. There was a school there, there was a laundrette, a chemist, a GP, there was even a library. So my memories are of riding bikes through those corridors. And

instead of building tree houses, we played in the ladders of the lift shaft. I know it might sound crazy if you're not part of that environment, but it was pretty, pretty fun for childhood Yinka. And you were living in a three bed flat, you're one of seven kids. And at one stage, I know that there were six of those kids under the age of 10. And you were raised by a single mom, which first of all, is just really impressive. Secondly, must have been kind of noisy. Christmas is an event. I'm talking, if you are with half of my siblings, you're public speaking. I grew up in the loudest place possible, the warmest and most inviting, but very, very loud. Do you think that helped you find your voice? Because part of what you do now, you're a radio DJ. And do you think that stems from having to speak up for yourself? I 100% think that. It's so crazy because if you don't speak up for yourself in my family you're gonna get forgotten about you know my sister's forgotten

to even set a place for me because I was asleep one time because there were so many of us but I also think that having so many ready-made best friends and so many ready-made number one fans and so many people and women because I've got four sisters rooting for me really helped me find my voice as well because even though it's loud it's chaotic it's also this support bubble because my siblings really are my best friends. So it sounds like there was a real sense of community both in your family and in the wider neighborhood is that right? It's definitely safe to say that it's definitely the village raising a child mentality everyone had an input into what

you were up to everyone kept an eye on you be that my older sister or the pleasant lady living on the second floor it was really a group effort. Your mum was Irish and your dad is Nigerian. Do you feel a strong connection with both or either of those cultures? You know, I get asked this quite a lot, especially in 2020. And with, you know, black people being so much more visible and encouraged to be louder than we ever have before. I've been asked how I identify. And for me, I have more of an affinity to my Nigerian side and that isn't because I don't know anything about my Irish side I mean I summered in Ireland I've got lots of family there and I definitely grew up around the the white side of my family but my mum because she knew that we weren't going to be able to go to Nigeria since there were so many of us because

we just couldn't afford it she really embraced Nigerian culture and she really just submerged us in that from our names to the people that we hung out with, to the way that we did our hair, to the language we spoke at home and the food we ate at home. She wanted to make sure that we knew as much about our Nigerian heritage as possible and I personally identify more with my Nigerian side I'd say. Is it annoying being asked that question by white people? No no I feel like the right answer that question is yes because it definitely isn't my responsibility to educate anybody on what cultural identity means but being perfectly honest it doesn't annoy me because a I get asked equally by white and by black people I think it's just really interesting for people because I am of

mixed heritage but b I am so proud of where I'm from and I love being Irish I love being Nigerian it just so happens that I identify and I have experienced the world through the eyes and just the actions of a black woman, a lighter skinned black woman, but for a black woman. You've spoken in the past about your similarities as a person with the place that you grew up, Peckham. Can you tell me a bit more about that? Well, for me, you know, Peckham really has made me who I am I think that there's something in the soil of being from a place that requires you to look after yourself and requires you to be a bit thick-skinned that really does breed a sense of strength and I think that when I look at you know people who have come from Peckham people have come before me people who are still living because I

don't live in Peckham anymore so people who are still living there now who have come from Peckham, people who have come before me, people who are still living, because I don't live in Peckham anymore, so people who are still living there now, who have grown up there, it's like there is something that runs through us and there's something, there's just a creativity and a resilience that people who don't have necessarily the easiest start in life that they all share. What does resilience mean to you now? What resilience to me now is just the gusto that get up and go I think for me resilience is not backing down is definitely faking it until I make it there's so many times when I don't feel like I'm deserved of being in a room because I'm like oh my gosh they're going to realize where I'm from and that I'm not qualified to do this or you know resilience to me is fighting to do the best or

the biggest even though I start on the back foot it's existing in a place that wasn't necessarily built for somebody like me and doing it well and doing it as good as or better than others amazing answer I also love the word gusto I think it's really underused so I salute you for that. Thank you. We started off this interview talking about the media perception of the North Peckham estate and you recently made an incredibly powerful documentary about being the childhood friend of Damilola Taylor. For those listeners who might not be familiar with what happened to Damalola, who you knew as Dami, please could you tell us the story? Yeah, of course. Damalola Taylor was a 10-year-old boy who came to London to live with his mum and family in the summer of the year 2000.

And it just so happened that he landed and they moved into the North Peckham estate and he was one of my neighbours for the four months that he lived in Britain I saw him every day he was I think when you're 11 and those friendships that you build it was a lot closer than if I met somebody four months ago being 31 and then in November so yeah four months after he came to Britain of the year 2000 he was murdered on the way home from after school club by two brothers that also lived in our area the documentary that I made is just about revisiting my past and kind of trying to put these fractured memories and the reality of what Peckham was versus what everyone thinks is and what I think it is and see if they line up with each other and just to

try and tell his story and our story from a perspective that hasn't necessarily been shown as of yet. First of all I'm so sorry for what you must have gone through at that age and in the years afterwards and secondly I just want to pay tribute to the fact that you did such a good job of portraying Damolola Taylor as the child that he was rather than simply the tragic figure that he became what was he like as a friend thank you he was funny and aggressive and he was extremely loud you know he fit right in to be honest I think when you are 10 and a head taller than everybody else there's a possibility that you stick out like a sore thumb that maybe his boisterous nature would have settled well with the group but it just so happens that all of us were boisterous nature would have settled well with the group, but it just so happens that all of us were boisterous

and we were all rough around the edges and ready for our next adventure. And that's what we did. We played, we laughed, we swapped Pokemon cards and wrestled our way through the summer of the year 2000. And I just, I want people to know that I genuinely understand that he is a victim and that his life ended the way that it did. I just want people to know that in the understand that he is a victim and that his life ended the way that it did I just want people to know that in the same way that you know you've got children who are 10 or siblings who are 10 or neighbors or nephews and nieces that's what he was he was a 10

year old child who enjoyed himself and was so welcome and he had a crush on you right I'm so so embarrassing that I was like saying honestly I when I watched that footage back of myself smiling about Damilola Taylor having a crush on me I thought oh shut up Yinka what's going on you were so sweet so Yinka you're talking about this footage that was uncovered of a BBC documentary which was filmed when you were 11 are you 11 yeah yeah you and your brother are first of all so cute but so eloquent as well talking in the aftermath of this horrendous thing happening so I don't think you should be too hard on your younger self though you're very sweet thank you um I know this is a

massive question but how did you deal with it I don't think I did now that the documentary's been made and you know the first kind of reviews are in and people are saying what they think. And it's also been a little bit of distance since we conceived the idea to filming it. There have been a few months, you know, it's now ready and people are watching it. The one overriding sense of emotion that I have is that I really didn't deal with this until I decided to go back and relive it and confront it and especially when I do watch the archive footage of myself and it was maybe a week since he had been killed and the questions that you know an adult is asking an 11 year old

I realize just the way that the people viewed children who lived in North Peckham was as if we were adults we were really expected to get on with it we were expected to come to terms with it we were expected to accept it when I didn't even know what it was that I was supposed to be coming to terms with I know that I was extremely extremely traumatized and even looking at myself that how red my eyes are and the way I'm on the verge of tears every single question that man asks and he still keeps pressing and asking questions my heart breaks when I watch myself because I think where was the counselling where was the safeguarding instead we got a

reporter with a camera and a really long nose into our business and I know that you you say in the documentary that you really didn't talk about it with your friends at the time and that it has taken this long, 20 years to be able to open up about it. Was it cathartic for you having those conversations? And is it still cathartic? Are you still able now after the documentary to talk to your friends and reconnect with them? after the documentary to talk to your friends and reconnect with them? I think the conversations were definitely therapeutic for me. And even, I think I got just as much out of having the conversations as the very people that I was speaking to. You know, when I spoke to my childhood best friend and reconnected with Francesca, after not seeing her for the best part of 15 years and having a real conversation for the first time, it did so much for me for the first time it did so much for me and I know it did so much for her because we've reconnected properly and we're

still friends now I think that in terms of being comfortable having the conversations and whether or not we're going to be able to continue this vein of openness I'm not sure because it still is very painful and because we haven't especially in my family there are so many of us in my immediate family being one of seven and everybody has their own experiences and everybody has their own opinions and the same thing has affected us all in very different ways even you know in our family group chat when we were watching the doc everybody is so different it kind of is very overwhelming and I think maybe every day as it comes every conversation as it comes is the easiest way to go forward just simply because the more that I speak

about it and the more it's out there in the world the more real it feels yeah and the more you relive it definitely and I use the word confront a, like instead of revisiting or rehashing, it's confronting because it does feel like a very violent time, even though obviously I wasn't there when it happened or I do have good memories. It just feels like something that, yeah, it's quite dark. The estate was demolished subsequent to Damolola's death and you went on to study law why did you choose law simple answers because I'm Nigerian when when you've got strict West African parents I'm sure that so many people can relate even if your parent isn't Mr Bukini there are certain you know subjects that are seen as appropriate and those those are business, medicine, law.

You can probably get a bit of pharmacology in there, maybe, if you're lucky. And I've always been extremely academic. And I've always had my nose in books. And I've always done it really well at school. So it was that or medicine. And I really didn't want to be a doctor. So I just thought okay fine I'll just I'll just do law. Was there an underlying interest in justice? Definitely I have

an unyielding fascination with true crime as well and even though at uni it just so happened that I didn't focus on criminal law it wasn't the pathway that I ended up picking I would say that my interest in law and in common law and in the justice system I think it definitely boils down to my experiences I think I'd be a bit naive to say that it doesn't plus you love to judge Judy am I right oh listen judge Judy she's my idol. I adore Judy. Oh, Judith Steinman. I love her. She's a very calming person. I feel like she could massively just sort my life out. Oh, definitely. And probably make you feel really silly in the process. So how do you get from law to what you're doing now?

Well, you just kind of jump and hope that you land somewhere really. For me it's been a lot of trial and error. I really didn't know what I wanted to do and whilst I still feel, I don't think 31 is old, I think I'm still a baby, but getting into the career path of broadcasting and of presenting in journalism, I got into it quite late compared to some of my colleagues. I think I was 25 when I got my first radio show. And in the last six years, I've just worked really hard and known that I wanted to do it to the best level. But to be completely honest, you know, Superdrug have their own radio station.

And one day I was just in there shopping and I heard a presenter talk about Olly Murs and then it being two for one on Tresemme. And I thought I could do this. And at the time I was working in a bar. So I thought, let me try and be a presenter. And that's genuinely the day the penny dropped. But yeah, that's a bit ridiculous of a story.

What did your dad think? My degree is in his toilet. I didn't even go to my graduation. It didn't really interest me. It was literally just for him. So when I broke the news to him that I'd rather be a DJ than pursue a career in law he thought I was joking he's quite a liberal guy he isn't super duper traditional and I always say to him you know

if you wanted somebody whose core values were really intrinsically linked to Nigeria then you kind of should have had kids and brought them up there I was raised in Peckham so I'm going to be influenced by London and the things around me it took a while to convince him I asked him to give me a little bit of time to try and just pursue what I want to do because ultimately it's my life and he kind of said I didn't have to ask for permission I was just being polite I'd already started a capital extra when I broke it to him but he didn't understand what I did for a living until his friends started to listen to me on the radio and feed back to him so now of course he is extremely proud but this time last year I don't think he could have told you what I do I think that's so inspiring for people to hear that you

can do a degree and sort of tick that box but that you can also it's never too late to follow your true passion and that idea of like trial and error and taking a gamble on yourself I think is really inspiring I just think it's so important to believe in your own source so to speak I think for me you know when I first started on radio when I first started broadcasting I genuinely was rubbish at it I actually wasn't very good I struggled to articulate myself properly if you can believe that because I do chat a lot but it's just that thing of if you really want to do something you will do it and to whatever level you know obviously I'm not saying that every single person's gonna get the breakfast show of their dreams but you can exist in that world and be

very fulfilled it's about purpose for me and when I look back and I look at the person who you know studied law and did four years of a subject that doesn't interest them I don't even recognize that yin-yang because I do feel really fulfilled in my career. And I also think what you said there about the first attempts were a bit rubbish is very good to hear as well because you're not going to be brilliant the first time you do something as much as you want to do it and that doesn't mean that you're failing it just means that you need more practice of course like you know if you look at any artist's first picture if you look at any sprinters first run if you look at anybody's first it's not going to be them at their peak it's a muscle it's a talent that needs

nurturing and training that's the way the way I see it anyway. How do you think your childhood experiences of both happiness and trauma have contributed to how you live your life now in a kind of positive victorious celebratory way do you think that there's been an impact? Oh definitely I don't really think that I've changed a lot since I was a child of course I'm remarkably taller but I genuinely am the same person and I think that's a testament to my friends and the people around me have stayed constant throughout my life I would say that my childhood self is kind of like my inspiration it's the person that I want to do proud that gobby little girl the one with all the chat is the person that lives inside inspiration it's the person that I want to do proud that gobby little girl the one

with all the chat is the person that lives inside me that's the fire that keeps me going and even when it comes to the trauma that I've experienced in my life and the loss and the painful memories I do use those as just fuel to keep going because ultimately I know that doing myself proud and being able to make something of myself because of where I'm from not in spite of where I'm from because of where I'm from to be able to do my area and my friends and little me proud is like the biggest reward. And do you think that losing a friend and a neighbor at that young age and I know that you subsequently lost your mother and I'm so sorry for that grief you must have felt too do you think that means that you never take life for granted definitely I think if you speak to anybody who knows me

they know how much I live my life like it's so crazy because every second of my life is spent really enjoying myself. And that's enjoying the people around me. I'm the person that, you know, buys you a gift because it's Wednesday. I throw parties for my siblings when they've been at their job for two years because I'm like, this is a celebration. We need to congratulate each other. It's not the fear of losing people, but it's knowing the value of people and knowing that at any moment this normality may not exist. So reveling in that and just making sure that people know how much I love them and how much I appreciate them. Honestly, my friends, like if they don't answer the phone when I call them once, I just call them 16 more times. I'm a very intense person. do everything like right and properly and everything I do is the biggest because I do believe in grasping life

with both hands and firmly and literally just being everything that I can be as much as I can be all the time I want you to get me a present just because it's a Wednesday you sound like the loveliest friend ever I'm like happy half birthday and they're like that's not a thing are you good at celebrating yourself like no no no no no no no no no I don't I find it really cringe even with the film that we just made has got really good reviews and even now I'm having arguments in my family group chat about whether or not I should publicly say it has and I'm like well if people want to know even when I got the breakfast show at Capital Extra I'm like well I've already been on radio for ages people won't care and my siblings are like well you got me a

present when I got a job and I'm like yeah but that's you I think my love language is giving it isn't receiving. Is it strange for you being interviewed? Yeah yeah I'm so used to being the person that asks the questions that being on the receiving end of it, I really want to do a good job for whoever's asking them because I know how annoying it is when you ask someone a question. They just say, yes, I want to be a good interviewee. You are an amazing interviewee. You're making my job an absolute dream. So thank you for that. You said you no longer live in Peckham. Do you still live in London? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I thought i heard seagulls earlier oh no there are seagulls but i just live next to a fish market like it's not glamorous or anything i literally only moved a couple of years ago and that's because i moved in with my partner and it was just easy for us to live here we both work on this side of the river i'm always in peckham whenever I'm able to go restrictions and stuff

allowing to see my siblings and stuff but yeah I moved out it's so weird I thought I'd live there forever yeah it must be strange given it's so much part of your identity but I often think it becomes more of your identity when you move away from somewhere oh yeah because then you can fly the flag and you're one flying it as opposed to flying a flag and everyone's looking at you like we know we're here with you so Peckham has changed an enormous amount in your lifetime can you still find the Peckham that you remember from your childhood when you go back there the Peckham that I grew up in in the 90s and noughties doesn't exist anymore I don't think that that community type of spirit can thrive and can exist without the shadow that comes with it without the other side of the

coin I do find my old Peckham in the faces of the people that have always existed in Peckham you know I find it in my local pub where my aunt still works, or I find it in Sunday dinner at my sister's house or with a neighbour who we've lived next to for the last 19 years. Not necessarily physically, like some of the buildings still exist, but it isn't the same. But definitely the feeling and that sense of warmth can be found just within the people that still exist in the area. I love that answer so, so much. So my final question is actually a very annoying interviewer question, which is that because you're a DJ, I wanted to know,

if you were a song, what song would you be, Yinka? Oh my gosh. Okay. If I was a song. Oh, okay. I would be Elton John, your song. Oh, that's a lovely one. Yeah, and I don't mean it because I'm the subject of it,

but I always sing it to my nieces and nephews. So I think that's the song that people will know me for. So I think that's, yeah. And it's such a soulful, kind, generous and melodic song. And you are all of those things. And I cannot thank you enough for coming on the podcast. Thank you, Yinka Bikini. Thank you so much for having me.

This has been such a pleasure. If you enjoyed this episode of How to Fail with Elizabeth Day, I would so appreciate it if you could rate, review and subscribe. Apparently, it helps other people know that we exist.