How To Fail With Elizabeth Day - AJ Tracey - ‘Buying my mum a house will always be my proudest achievement’

Episode Date: June 18, 2025

Rapping phenomenon and Tottenham Hotspur superfan AJ Tracey joins us this week to talk about supporting his mum through her cancer journey, the pressures of staying an independent artist and what football has taught him about failure. AJ Tracey has been rapping since the age of four. He dropped out of his Criminology degree at London Metropolitan University and started uploading tracks to SoundCloud in 2011, achieving five Platinum singles and over two billion Spotify plays as an independent artist. His first studio album debuted at number three in the UK Albums chart and his breakthrough hit, Ladbroke Grove, became the unofficial summer anthem of 2019. Now, after a three-year hiatus, marked by leaked songs and pandemic delays, Tracey has just released his third album, Don't Die Before You're Dead. It’s his most vulnerable and personal work yet and as well as being a love letter to the UK, the album fuses grime, garage, and R&B with themes of trauma, mental health, faith and love. Elizabeth and AJ answer YOUR questions in our subscriber series, Failing with Friends. Join our community of subscribers here: https://howtofail.supportingcast.fm/#content Have a failure you’re trying to work through for Elizabeth to discuss? Click here to get in touch: howtofailpod.com All episodes in June are brought to you by @arlalactoFREE - all the taste, easier to digest. Listen to our bonus episode brought to by ArlaLactoFREE with Vicky Pattison here: https://link.chtbl.com/VickyPattison 🌎 Get an exclusive 15% discount on your first Saily data plans! Use code [howtofail] at checkout. Download Saily app or go to to https://saily.com/howtofail ⛵ Production & Post Production Coordinator: Eric Ryan Mix Engineer: Matias Torres Studio Engineer: Gulliver Tickell Assistant Producer: Suhaar Ali Senior Producer: Hannah Talbot Executive Producer: Carly Maile How to Fail is an Elizabeth Day and Sony Music Entertainment Production. Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts To bring your brand to life in this podcast, email [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As someone who loves a trip away, being connected to home and the rest of the world when I'm overseas is an absolute must. I mean, I need to have my daily FaceTime check-ins with my cat Huxley and, yeah, I guess catch up on work emails and stuff. Now, something that can make this all possible is Salie, a new eSIM service app that allows you to choose from several affordable eSIM plans in over 190 countries, so that with SAILI eSIM, you'll always have a connection when needed. I hate the idea of getting lost abroad and not having access to maps on my phone when there's no WiFi spot in sight. It's so stressful. So why not remove that stress completely with a local SIM

card that saves you money on roaming fees. It's super simple to use, you only have to install it once and it's much more affordable than roaming. You can also activate Salie's security features and browse more confidently. Download the Salie app in your app store. Use code HOWTOFAIL at checkout to get 15% off your first purchase. HOWTOFAIL is proudly partnering with Aala Lacto Free through June. Delicious dairy with all the taste, none of the lactose. Hello and welcome to How to Fail.

If you haven't joined us before, then this is the podcast that sees failure as a nudge from the universe in a different kind of direction. Every week, I ask a new guest about three times they've failed in their life and what, if anything, they learned along the way. So any teachers that are listening,

please tell your students they can achieve something because it really has a massive ripple effect, actually. That's my worst nightmare. Police coming to my mom's door was literally my worst nightmare. That's like my love language looking after people is my love language I'll be honest. My guest today was born in South London, grew up in Ladbroke Grove and has been rapping since the age of four. He and his siblings were raised by a single mother

who was a youth worker and a pirate radio DJ, instilling in her children both a moral conscience and a love of music. Perhaps then it's no surprise that AJ Tracy was drawn to this particular career. He dropped out of his criminology degree at London Metropolitan University and started uploading tracks to SoundCloud in 2011. He went on to achieve five platinum singles and over two billion Spotify plays as an independent artist. His debut studio album debuted at number three in the UK albums chart and his breakthrough hit Labrack Grove became the unofficial summer anthem of 2019. His second album, Flu Game, was inspired by the legendary basketball player Michael Jordan and entered the UK charts at number two. Now

after a three-year hiatus marked by leaked songs and pandemic delays, Tracy has just released his third album, Don't Die Before You're Dead. It's his most vulnerable and personal work yet. As well as being a love letter to the UK, the album fuses grime, garage and R&B with themes of trauma, mental health, faith and love. Reflecting on the journey he took with his latest music, Tracy says, I've experienced vulnerability. I've gained maturity. I've leveled up. AJ Tracy, welcome to Hats and Fail. That was a great intro. That was an amazing intro.

Thank you. You sound like larger than life. You are. I'm so happy to have you in the Hats and Fail studio. And I'm also so intrigued to hear about how vulnerability fed into your new album. Because when I was doing the research for this interview, it struck me that your childhood didn't necessarily always allow you to be vulnerable. Yeah, yeah. I think that's fair to say. How has that journey been for you in terms of embracing that softer side? It's a good question. I think when you're young and you have a single mum you kind of feel

like as a male you feel like you have to look after your mum. Obviously my mum was looking after me but you feel like you have to look after your mum. You know showing weakness quote unquote in the form of like being vulnerable. Of course being vulnerable is not a weakness but it seems like a weakness at a time. You just feel like other people are gonna take advantage and it kind of puts you at a disadvantage in terms of the area you live in and growing up in quite a hard area. It's nice to feel like no trouble

is gonna approach your doorstep. I have a younger brother and he obviously, he wasn't outside too much. He was kind of at home playing on his computer and I kept him away from kind of the things that happen outside the house. So being vulnerable wasn't something that I was able to do for a long time.

But as you get older, obviously, I'm 31 now, you learn to open up a little bit, wear your heart on your sleeve a little bit. And it's nice, it's nice to talk about your feelings. It's nice to hear that other people relate and they've been through similar things. And yeah, it's just a nice experience to be honest. How much do you think you've been inspired

by the younger generation to be more open about your feelings? Yeah, quite a lot actually. I think the younger generation are a lot better at expressing their feelings. I think they have less weight on their shoulders in terms of social norms. I think they just do what they want to do, which is really cool. It's quite inspiring to be honest. And I hope that if I have kids one day, they act the same. When you put on like a hard exterior, people can't relate to you. So you don't really form connections like that

But when you actually become yourself and just open up a little bit you form really meaningful connections I completely agree with you that vulnerability is what helps people connect You mentioned that you're 31. I am you said in a previous interview that you plan to retire from rapping Actually did say that how's that retirement plan going AJ? You know what it is, as you're young the years just get like they look so far away and they slowly like just creep up on you so I did say that that was a lie I don't know why I said that. Okay. Retirement's not anytime soon I don't think. Okay well as long as people are listening I'll be making music. Your fans are relieved to hear it. There's something very cool happening with your new album. Tell us about the Deliveroo thing. Okay, yeah. So I had this idea, I thought,

I spend a lot of money on Deliveroo. I'm just gonna start by saying that. It's very convenient. So I do end up like, oh, look, I could cook or I could just get a takeaway. But yeah, I just thought, why don't I put my music on Deliveroo? So we hit them up and said, is that a thing?

Can we do that? And they were like, yeah, we'd love to do that. So we put the album on Deliveroo. It's the first ever record store on Deliveroo and I'm delivering albums so when people order album there's a chance that I myself will get geared up and go and deliver them the album. That's so cool, it turns up as a vinyl. Yeah it turns up as a physical vinyl or a CD but if you're lucky I'll knock on the door and hand you the vinyl. That is so exciting.. Yeah, it's quite cool. It's quite cool.

Tell me more about the album because you recorded it on a farm in Oxfordshire. Is that right? Yeah, I did. I did. How did that play in your notes are amazing, by the way. Yeah, I like to over prep. No, great notes. Yeah, we recorded on a farm called Angelic Studios. It's in Banbury, if you know where that is. And it's just a beautiful area.

It's somewhere you can just step out of London, clear your have your friends and family around pet the horses if you want to And it's Jamiroquai studio actually so yeah, we recorded an album there And it just allowed me to just I felt like unchanged you know you can just kind of say whatever you want in the studio and it allowed me to make some music that I have never really made before like talking about my mom and The illnesses she's had and what she's been through. And I think if I was in London,

I wouldn't really be able to make that music. A lot of people, my family always say to me, when I'm outside of London, I look the happiest. That's probably because London's quite competitive. It's quite toxic. It's fast. I love London, but it is all these things as well. It's fast paced.

It's a little bit dangerous. So sometimes you can't fully open up and be vulnerable in London. We're going to go on to talk about your mum in a bit but I wonder the album is very British, deliberately so. Do you consider yourself more of a Londoner or more of a British person? Definitely a Londoner, definitely. Yeah, yeah. Born and raised West London and I feel like West London, I was in such close proximity to Oxford Street and Soho that kind of my local area is central London. So I just felt inherently like a Londoner.

I used to be very like focused on where I'm going. You know, you bump into someone, you might say sorry, you might not. And yeah, just, I think London is beautiful. And I think being British is beautiful. And I think it was important for me, especially as a mixed race person, to stamp how much I love being British and to show people like we don't have to look elsewhere for influence we can you know look at home and enjoy what we have and it's not all tea and crumpets you know. Although I do love a crumpet. So do I, I love tea as well to be honest. That idea of little AJ although I know that you weren't called that then rapping at the age of four and writing lyrics at the age of six.

Talk to me a little bit about what you were like as a kid. What was I like as a kid? Maybe wise beyond my ears I think actually. My mum used to always say I was like an old man because I kind of understood what was going on you know and I think starting to rap is like it gave me an outlet, a creative outlet so obviously when you're four and when you're six, you're not writing, you know coherent lyrics But you just write in rhymes or just saying rhymes and my dad used to be a rapper So he kind of I don't think he wanted me to be a rapper to be honest But being around him and being around his friends and being around the vinyls and whatnot it kind of influenced me I was like, oh, this is cool. Like if my dad thinks it's cool You will think our dads are like our heroes or moms are heroes. My mom was a DJ

That's a rapper. Music was inevitable to be honest. But little AJ, yeah man, just running around very happy to run a stress free until I think I became sentient. And then I was like, oh, life's a little bit hard, innit? So yeah. What was school like?

School was amazing, I loved school. Primary school, I went to a school called Middle Row. It's in a Golden Road, which is Labyrinth Grove. Amazing school, amazing school. Really good teachers, they cared a lot, I went to a school called Middle Row. It's in a Golden Road, which is Lava Grove. Amazing school, amazing school. Really good teachers. They cared a lot, I think, which is really important. The ethnic diversity of my school was really cool as well. Black kids, white kids.

We had a lot of Mongolian kids, Moroccan kids. My area has a large Moroccan population. So it's nice from a young age, I got to learn about other people's cultures and what's important to them, you know, how they live their life. And it's cool to learn that, because as you grow up, it takes a lot of,

you know, stereotypes away from you. You stop thinking about, oh, maybe X, Y, Z, because you've already learned, oh, it's not like that. You know, secondary school, I went to Holland Park, which is a very famous school, actually. When I went there, when I first went there, it was a little bit rough, but as I moved through the years,

they, you know, started making it a little little bit better I would say now it's a really like kind of poor school to be honest but at the time it wasn't it was like no uniform fighting graffiti whatever yeah but I really enjoyed school my RE teacher and my history teachers those two in specific really helped mold me into who I am because I didn't really care for the other teachers they didn't really understand I'm ADHD and I didn't really get like why is this kid like not concentrating and My already teacher miss Khan and miss mock my history teacher really looked after me like they understood. Okay, cool He might be a little bit distracted by he's actually intelligent and we should try and harness what he has to offer

Have you been back to that school? I have been back to school But it's funny because okay So I'm actually banned from the school because in one of my lyrics I said F the head teacher because I didn't like him so I'm banned but I came outside the school recently just to like see the kids and say hi and just like gas them up a little bit so that was cool and one of the one of the like head teachers came up to me and he's like look it's really nice to see you I think you know you're not allowed to be here but it's nice to see you so thanks for coming but you're gonna allowed to be here, but it's nice to see you, so thanks for coming,

but you're gonna have to vacate, so yeah. I'm literally banned, by the way, actually. When kids have prom in Holland Park, they're not allowed to play my music. That's a fact, that's actually a fact. Is that because the same head teacher is still in charge? He's left now, so maybe I'm unbanned now. Maybe it's, but when did he leave, a couple years ago?

I mean, if you're listening, head teacher of Holland Park, you need to unban AJ Tracer. I don't know who the current head teacher is, so hopefully, yeah, let me come and talk to the kids. Final question before we get onto your failures. That Britishness that you have so eloquently encapsulated, talking about your upbringing, how do you translate that into your sound on this album? That's a good question. It's a great question.

I think some music is just inherently British. I think UK Garage, not to be confused with Garage, because Garage is American, but UK Garage is ours. And I think that sound is very, it just sounds like your upbringing. Even if you didn't listen to Garage, you heard it in passing, you know? Grime, of course, is a British sound.

We invented it here. I think rock music, indie music, punk music. My mum used to love the Sex Pistols, great band. I think for me having all these different types of genres available to me and being brought to my attention is what kind of shaped my idea of a British soundscape. And I wish I had to put a little bit of everything into it. That is so impressive.

You know it's funny, I get sometimes people online say like, oh, AJ says he's British, he's not British, he's black. But my mum's from Cardiff and her dad is English. So I'm literally British by blood, unfortunately for the people who don't want me to be. My dad's from Trinidad and anyone who knows the history of the Caribbean, the Caribbean people were invited over to the UK to become British. So whichever way you flip it, I'm British, yeah. You still get people saying that to you?

Yeah, I do actually, I do. But I don't think it's not, obviously it's not anyone who, no offence, has any intelligence, of course. But some people people just ignorant and I hope they get some education. Yeah, hopefully This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace Now if you're an entrepreneur like me or living the creative freelance life Then Squarespace is the all-in-one platform to help you stand out and succeed online Whether you're just getting started or nurturing a growing brand, Squarespace makes it easy to create a stunning website and engage with your audience. My website was designed on Squarespace and I found it so user-friendly and easy. And trust me,

I am not techy at all. Squarespace supports a design-orientated ethos, so the options are chic and there's plenty of templates to choose from. I felt totally supported as an entrepreneur, and it made it even easier for me to help nurture my community too. Other amazing features include SEO tools so your site can be found easily, help with payments, and an AI-enhanced website builder. It helps you do you without any hassle. Head to squarespace.com forward slash fail 10 for a free trial.

And when you're ready to launch, use offer code fail 10 to save 10% off your first purchase of a website and domain. If you run a business and needed to hire someone yesterday, I have the solution for you. Just use Indeed. Indeed sponsored jobs help you stand out and hire fast. With sponsored jobs, your post jumps to the top of the page for your relevant candidates so you can reach the people you want faster. And it makes a huge difference.

According to Indeed data, sponsored jobs posted directly on Indeed have 45% more applications than non-sponsored jobs. I've been in a position to hire a handful of people in the past and it can be a slow and overwhelming process. I wish I'd known about Indeed then. There's no need to wait any longer. Speed up your hiring right now with Indeed. And listeners of this show will get a £100 sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility at indeed.com slash how to fail. Just go to indeed.com slash how to fail right now

and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.com slash how to fail terms and conditions apply hiring Indeed is all you need. Your first failure is about being an independent artist. Yes, yes it is. So talk to me about that because it strikes me that you've made a massive success of it, but maybe it was really hard along the way.

Yeah, I appreciate you saying that. It's definitely been a success and it's lovely to look back in hindsight and be like, oh wow, I managed to do all this, but it was definitely very difficult. And there were some paths that may have been easier to take, maybe not as rewarding, but definitely easier to take. So when you're a young artist, the first thing that people tell you is like, you want to get a record deal because it just equals money and it means like stability and you're able to put your music out and you've got a big machine behind you to help you

put your music out but being independent is like the dark root the root that people don't really speak about what they do now it's a cool thing to be independent now but at the time it was pretty hard and me being independent meant that every win that I managed to achieve is a bigger win because it's just me on my own well obviously my team Joss you've met big up on my team but you know when you're part of a label it's like it's not really your win like you would have maybe won regardless of what the music sounds like because the machine are kind of just churning you up so when you're

independent it's like cool if I pay 50 grand for this music video and I don't make 50 grand back it's just my loss it comes out my pocket and I've lost it if you have the labels kind of like they're gonna spend the money doesn't matter if you lose or not so there are pros and cons, but when you do manage to succeed being independent, it's kind of like, if I wanna make a song tomorrow, if me and you went to the studio today and made a song, I could just drop it tomorrow.

There's no one who could tell me you can't, or wait for this, there's no any like that, I'll just drop my song, which is amazing. It gives a lot of freedom and control to the artist, which I think is beautiful. Also I own all my masters, which is something that I think a lot of artists can't say which is a little bit sad because owning your masters is power honestly because when I make a song I own the song so you can use the song, you

can borrow the song, enjoy the song but it's my song at the end of the day. If I want to sell the rights to it I can. If I wanted to go and sell my catalogue tomorrow and stop making music I could and you'd never hear of me again and I'll live in the Bahamas. I think being independent just means that the fight is a little bit harder, but a reward is much greater But that is difficult. I'll be honest. There's a lot of trial and error there's a lot of spending money and not making money back of course and sometimes you look at the coffers and you're like, hmm, I Don't know if I can take this risk right now because I have a family, you know, I have My missus my mom my brother my friends

I'm trying to like look after everyone. And if I make a wrong step here, it could really affect everyone. So you've got to kind of wear everything up. That's so much pressure. It is a lot of pressure, I'll be honest. It's a lot of pressure, but I also, I'm conscious that if I succeed independently,

then other kids who want to be independent are going to look at that, the blueprint, and be able to use it and be able to make something of themselves because of the seeds that I've planted, which is amazing. So it is like a little bit of a community thing. You get this sense of justice where you're actually giving people access to becoming whichever artist they wanna be on their own

without thinking, oh, I need this label, I have to sign this. And a lot of the time labels will come into an impoverished area, get a really talented kid and be like, I'm just gonna give you 20k and make millions off you and just kind of turn you up and spit you out which does happen a lot not every label of course but a lot of them do do that I also think just hearing you explain it that way there is such a social justice element to it that definitely is yeah

because you're going a route that has no gatekeepers and historically gatekeepers are like white privileged men Not always but yeah most of the time. So how were you of that element when you started out? Was this always the plan? You know what it wasn't the plan. When I initially first started I really wanted to sign a record or just because I didn't really understand the implications of being signed and the rewards that can come from being independent but as soon as I kind of understood, I got over my manager Andy, and when I was really early on in my music and he was kind of like, look, we can just do this.

Like we don't need all these other people, we can actually just do this. And with the internet now, which is really cool for everyone who's younger than me, you can go on SoundCloud, upload a song, and tomorrow you're viral. Like just that easy, it's literally that easy. Obviously that doesn't happen for everyone,

but it can happen. And it means that instead of having to go, you know to go to a label meeting and go to an office and discuss how you're going to drop your song and the tactics behind it and whatever the business rollout, you can just upload on SoundCloud. People like it and then that's it. This is that easy. So it does empower people a lot. I think it's very empowering to be independent, but I'm going to just caveat that by saying

it's a lot of work and it is very stressful and it is possible that you know You're down to your last 50 grand you spend it wrong. You're done. You know, it can happen. It can happen So how do you cope with that pressure? What are your strategies? To be honest with you just staying with good friends staying around people who are gonna keep me grounded and tell me the truth If a song is not that great. I want my friends to say to me you've done better Like you can do better than this which I need is important Having my mom just always say to me like no matter what happens outside the house you know I love you you're good over here come to my house and I give you

a hug and we're all good that's very important I think that is the main reason I have so much confidence because even if everyone's fed up with me I'm gonna go see my mum and she'll love me and we're all good so that no genuinely though that's that's kind of like what instilled the confidence in me to be like no matter what happens outside the house We're good in the house I just think the pressure is easy to deal with if if you know, you know You know your worth you know what you can what you're capable of. You know what you can achieve Then I'm not gonna say easy

I take that back but it's easier to deal with the pressure as long as you're confident to be honest Have you always had that in a knowledge that you are capable of something great? I think so to be honest. I actually think so. I think when I was in school, thanks to the teachers that I mentioned, they kind of instilled in me like, yeah, cool, you know, you misbehave, you mess around, you might be a little bit naughty, but you're intelligent, you're a bright kid and you can definitely make something of yourself. And having your teachers tell you that is important, I think. So any teachers that are listening, please tell your students they can achieve something because it really has a massive ripple effect

actually and you know you can spiral downwards but some teachers were like really lifting up the kids which is really important and I attribute that to my mum and to the teachers that done their job. You explore your faith on this album too and I wonder how much your faith plays into that sense of mission almost. With the faith thing it's funny because I do feel that for me personally, I can't speak for everyone, but for me personally, I just believe if you're a good person, you live your life

trying to be a good person, trying to help other people. That's like the mission of life, right? That's the aim, that's the point of life, to help people who need help and do what you can do and build memories with people and try and leave a mark on the world. So for me, when we talk about faith, I just have

faith that the higher powers are going to just ensure that I can carry out my mission, which is just trying to be a good person, I'll be honest. There's surely going to be a couple of people who don't like me are going to say, oh, AJ is a horrible person or whatever. But you know, at the end of the day, I always do things with good intentions at the end of the day. And I think that's just the main point of everything. If you've got good intentions, then in my opinion, you're on the right side of God. Talk to me about the meaning of the album title. Okay the meaning of the album title basically means live your life that's what it means. Like a lot of my career I've spent like oh this song's gone number two and we're doing really well and look we've made this money and

we've got this big show and this is so fast and things turn over so quickly you don't really get to live it sometimes like you're just in it but you're not present does that make sense? Yes. So you have a big show you come off stage and everyone like all your mates are like wow like what a show like I did Glastonbury Pyramid stage and there was so many people and everyone was just like wow that was amazing but I didn't really feel it like I feel it like a week later when I'm at home and like maybe I'll see it back on YouTube and I'm like wow that's crazy but at the time I'm like I'm absent I'm not actually here which isn't great to be honest it's not a good way to live your life because eventually I'm like wow that's crazy but at the time I'm like I'm absent I'm not actually here which isn't great to be honest it's not a good way to live your life because eventually I'm gonna stop making music eventually I'll

get older and eventually I'll wish that I you know lived in the moment more and that's what I'm trying to do now I'm trying to live in the moment more and I think the title basically just says you know we're all gonna die at some point don't die now like be present live your life that's kind of the aim of the album. Do you think the pandemic helped you be more present? Definitely, for sure. Well, I was living with my missus during the pandemic and you know, we had a couple of arguments here and there, but you know, you're confined in the space of each other non-stop. You can't make any life experiences. I can't go outside the house,

have a day that she doesn't know about and then talk to her about it because we're just doing the same thing every day. So it's quite hard, but also bless her, we got through it, it was all good. And I think being locked in the house makes you grateful for when you can leave the house. Just going, when I go to Cardiff, I went to Cardiff the other day, I went to Cardiff and I got family there and experiencing Wales and just being able

to see a different culture from London is really valuable and it's important. I've been on thousands of flights to loads of countries and I go to Japan a lot, I go to East Asia a lot and being over there, being present, enjoying the moment and it's not all about make sure I get a good pic for Instagram, it's like make sure I make memories. You mentioned your missus there. Is it true that you once broke up with someone because they disrespected your mom?

I did indeed. I did definitely, definitely. That was crazy. So basically My missus at the time this is when I was way younger. She she went out drinking whatever She had a fun time with her friends and then I was at my mom's house and I would I lied I wasn't at my mom's house. I was wherever I was and she went and rang my mom's doorbell cuz I wasn't answering the phone She rang my mom's doorbell in the middle of the night and was like drunk and just like swearing over the intercom My mom called me like yeah, why is your girlfriend being abusive over the intercom? I said that was the end of that Yeah, that was it. I just took all that. I don't know what made you think you can do that. That's insane But disrespect to my mom that's done. Oh

Automatic done finished. So your partner now, I'm guessing she has a great relationship. Oh, yeah. Yeah, my mom loves her. Yeah Much better now Thank God and I like her mom. Her mom's lovely as well. So yeah. Talking family reminds me of Big Zoo, who has been a guest on this podcast. He is a legend. You being an independent artist, I guess, gave you the flexibility to explore TV with it. He's your cousin, have I said that? Yeah, yeah. He actually, you know what the TV thing, I kind of wasn't sure whether I wanted to do any TV and he just called me like, bro, you might as well just try it. Like I can give you the perfect, we call it a through ball in football. It means like

someone's standing in front of the goal, I'll pass the ball to you and you can score. So like he's like, bro, I'll give you the perfect through ball. We'll just go and make a TV show on Sky, which is obviously a lot of people's dream, but he's like, I can make that happen. So I was like, yeah, why not? We'll try it. And I had a lot of fun. I'll be honest, I had a lot of fun. What a BAFTA. Yeah. Zou's won two BAFTAs and he's been nominated for six. So he's doing very well, very well. Bless him. And he's a great musician as well. So he's kind of just going at everything going

on. Oh. Ladies, if you're watching, hit up Zou. Oh, is he single? I want him to get a nice partner. Yes. Okay. I would love him to have a nice missus to ground him, please. Come and ground my cousin.

How old is he? He is 29. Okay, so this is a PSA. This is a PSA, this is a PSA. I love it, I love matchmaking. He's about to be 30. Okay. So get in there while the getting's good.

Yeah. Okay, so we've mentioned your mum and I know that she is a huge and profound influence on you. Probably one of my biggest. And your second failure is about your mum and her health. Her health, exactly. When I was younger, my mum unfortunately got diagnosed with breast cancer and she, me and my younger brother, two completely different personalities, as I told you, he stayed in the house a lot, played on his computer, he's quite reserved and I was kind of outgoing outside playing out so

my mum told us she was ill she told me first and then I was like okay let me let me tell my brother because I feel like I can probably communicate about whatever I told him cool my mom said cool we're gonna get through it you know she went and had a therapy and whatnot and then it came back unfortunately when it came back the second time, my mom kind of said to me, because she's getting older, you know, she's like, I don't know if I can be bothered

to just keep doing this, you know, therapy and blah, blah, blah. It takes quite a toll, you know, obviously you can lose your hair, you get weaker and whatnot. And it's painful as well, to be honest. And she just said to me, like, I'm not sure if I want to do that.

So I said, even if not for me, for my little brother, I think you've got to give it a whack, you know? And how old are you at this stage? I was young. I can't remember how old I was, but I was young though. I was very young. I was like, I don't want to get the age wrong, but around 15-ish, something like that. I don't know. And I just said to my mom, I was like, look, even if not for me, because I'm quite emotionally stable, it's probably like the way I can't go and say to my little brother

that you don't want to go and Have therapy you just want to kind of see what happens I said I can't say that to my brother like if you want to say that to him I'll leave that for you to say to him because that's gonna shout at him you know i'm saying And obviously she fought about it and she's like no i'm gonna i'm gonna fight it fine like you know She summoned up the the strength and she She fought it and then it went and then it came back again When it came back again, my mom was just like i'm basically just not going to get rid of this thing

Which is you know horrible. I can't imagine what that feels like But thank god Luckily, my mom's all good now Perfectly fine now. She's super happy. She just told me the other day she can squat 20 kg now. So that's great but um that whole saga was very draining because every time I'm outside the house and trying to like achieve my dreams and make things happen and my brother's you know getting his education trying to make things happen at the back of our mind it's

like oh my mom might be dying so it's kind of like you know it's hard to chase your dreams when you're worried about what's going on at home and as I told you my mom made sure that our house is like you know a safe haven but it's a bit of a broken safe haven when your mom's not safe at home you see what I'm saying yes she's been good for years and she's thriving honestly I bought her a house she loves her house she's got a little garden with frogs in it great I'm so happy and relieved to hear that AJ I appreciate it thank you you write this amazing track on the album third time lucky yeah and one of the lyrics is about the house you bought.

Yeah. You say it's your proudest moment. It is for sure. It definitely is because we grew up in Lavigrove, you know, lovely area, beautiful community, but unfortunately, you know, there's some crimes that go on there and it's not the safest area. And my dream was always if I make some money from music, I'll buy my mum a house and you know, she'll be safe.

We've never had a garden, you know, we lived in a little flat in Liberovo and she has a massive garden now lovely house no she put us around decorating and what not she looks after her garden and what not so and it's just beautiful for me that she's got her own place and you don't have to worry about paying rent whatever you know the bills it's all sorted it's done so that is definitely my proudest achievement for sure even if I like crashed out of music and finished and I don't want to listen to me anymore the fact that I got my mum a place to live and she's safe is really like I've done what I needed to do you know. Did you do it as a surprise? How

did you tell her? Actually this is so funny so when I told my mum yeah like so I didn't tell her I'm buying a house what I told her is okay mum you've got to move like I don't want you to live anymore you know everyone knows where we live my note ofarized you know going upwards and it's not safe for you to live here she basically said no she's like no I'm not moving so I was like well you have to move no I'm not moving so so I said okay cool so I went and got my older brothers and I was like guys you're gonna have to come with me to my mom's house we're gonna have to sit her down and tell her like you know you are moving so we went we sat down and she just started crying she She's like, I'm not moving like I love the area

I love the community, you know, my mom's a youth worker so she knows all the local kids and she's been helping everyone out there for a while and Yeah, she basically said I'm not leaving and I said, okay cool So if you're not leaving what are we gonna do because it's gonna help me mom for you to leave But basically she said in the end look I'll leave if I can still Come back to the area and go on the Grenfell March and do these look, I'll leave if I can still come back to the area and go on the Grenfell March and do these things that I love doing. And I said, yeah, deal. No problem. We just won't move too far away. So I moved there. She's still in West London. And when

she got there, when she got to the house, she was like, oh, I actually love this house. Like I'm glad I moved. Hey everyone, it's Molly Sims from Lipstick on the Rim. You guys, I know I'm going to sound like a broken record here, but love, love, love. I'm in love with Violette's Beesoo Balm. You know, I've been using it, I don't know, six, seven, eight, nine, ten months. I think I've talked about this product in almost every Must Have episode we've ever done and at this point it's just so good and you guys keep asking me about it. It's basically a sheer matte lipstick meets balm that gives you the perfect flush of color. Violette's Beesoo balm, okay? You guys, Nimesha put me onto a new shade. Amore Fou, it's my new fave. It gives this stunning,

perfect reddish pink pop to your lips. It's really easy to apply. You don't even really need a mirror, which is a rarity when it comes to any sort of red lip. I love it. I'm obsessed with it. It was trending on TikToks as the ultimate fringe girl lip. And for a good reason, Violette's formulas are also vegan, clean, cruelty-free, and packaged sustainably. I know Violette, the founder, so I reached out to her and she's offering our listeners 15% off with code lipstick. She knows how much of a diehard fan we are and I love you and thank you for doing this for my listeners. You guys have to try the Beezoo Balm.

I promise you will become obsessed. Hey podcast listeners, have you heard you can listen to your favorite podcasts ad free? That's good news. With Amazon Music, you have access to the largest catalog of the great positive influences you had I'm also aware like reading in between what you're saying of the amount of responsibility that you also carried. Oh for sure, a lot of responsibility. Because your dad wasn't... He wasn't around, he wasn't around. He wasn't an absent dad so to speak. My mum and dad were together when I was younger they

broke up and they were kinda, I knew they were gonna break up because they were kinda arguing all the time. And then my mom tried to like hide it from me. But I said to my mom like, look, you and dad are gonna break up, innit? Because I can see it. Like I was young, I was really young.

I was like eight or something, but I could see, you know, they weren't getting on. And it wasn't how it used to be. So I was like, what's going on? My mom said, yeah, I think, you know, we just kinda might have to go separate paths. And then I thought it was gonna be like my dad and mom break up, but you know, half of the time my dad's, half of the, my mom said, yeah, I think, you know, we just kinda might have to go separate paths. And then I thought it was gonna be like my dad and mom break up, but you know, half of the time my dad

is half of the time my mom's, it wasn't really like that at all, it was kinda like, sometimes I'm at my dad, sometimes he can't be bothered to have us, honestly, like, you know, my mom was mostly taking care of us. We needed a new uniform, my mom had to do it, you know, everything, my mom had to do everything. And being a single mum is not easy. Obviously I've never experienced it,

but I can see from her experience, it's not easy. And kids are expensive, kids are noisy, and having two boys, you know, like we're quite boisterous, we used to fight and stuff, it's like, it's not easy, is it? So, but I think a lot of the time, me and my brother would like want to fight and just not fight, to just not stress my mum out, you know, like we just not do it.

Even though we want to, we're just not gonna fight, because stressing my mum out wasn't an angle. And then the weight of financial burden started weighing down on my mum. She can't afford certain things, blah, blah, blah. She's working really hard. She had a good job, actually, as well. She was the head of youth work for a couple of boroughs,

and she was doing really well, but it still wasn't enough, you know what I'm saying? And I can't imagine how hard it must be to feel like what you're doing isn't enough. And what she was doing was enough actually. Just unfortunately, the person who should have been helping her out wasn't, you know? So the responsibility of being like the man in the house

kind of fell on me. And that's okay though. I took that with like open arms. I was cool to do that. I didn't mind. I feel my little brother needed a good role model and someone to look up to. And I hope I did that, you know? So it was fine.

I was actually happy to do that job, honestly. Cause if no one's gonna do it, I'm happy to like step up and do it. It's fine. We'll get it done. We did get it done. Yeah. Do you feel older than your years?

For sure, actually. Yeah. Yeah. It's weird cause like, I feel like now I feel old only because I don't go clubbing or anything anymore. I'm kind of like a granddad now. But when I was like 25, I already felt like 30, you know what I'm saying? So when I reached the age of 30, it didn't feel any different.

Cause I felt like the level of responsibility I've had all my life has been consistent to be honest, since I was like maybe like 20, like 18, 19, 20. From then I was like, I've got to be a man. I've got to bring some money in. I've got to be a man, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Do you look forward to a time when you don't have that amount of responsibility? Is that one of your goals? Kind of, no not really actually. I enjoy the responsibility because it gives you something to live for, it gives you something

to work towards. When you have people to look after, you constantly have to make sure that they're good and that's something I enjoy to be honest. I relish it actually, I like looking after people. That's like my love language, looking after people is my love language, I'll be honest. You're such a nice person. Thanks. You really are.

I appreciate it. I appreciate it. Thank you. One of the other lyrics from Third Time Lucky is about saying to your mum that you'd found money on the floor. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but it wasn't on the floor, no. It definitely was from selling drugs for sure. Okay. But like even that it's like when my mum found out what I was doing she was like distraught because obviously she's been working so hard to keep us away from all that stuff And then here I am just kind of just doing it

But it wasn't actually her fault as I say there should have been someone else helping my mama over all of this and because that Person wasn't there. I just took it upon myself to try and make things work But also I wasn't doing it for like, you know to be cool or to be whatever I did it because I needed some money needed to give my little brother some money help with a rent and at the end of the day It you know, I'm not here to advocate for what I did But it was a means to an end, you know It was a means to an end and as soon as I start making music and I had some money coming in I'll stop straight away like cut everything out police never ever came to my mom's door. Thank god

I did that's my worst nightmare police coming to my mom's door was literally my worst nightmare because like yeah she's a youth worker so you know she'll be like cool so I've helped all these other kids I couldn't even help my own kids didn't want it to feel like that and she never did so great perfect so one thing that comes across loud and clear is the amount of love that she gives you to this day and that's your bedrock for sure was she also strict no not all actually. She wasn't strict at all. She kind of just said to me, look, I don't want you to take drugs, but if you do, here are the side effects.

Here's how you're safe. Cause she's a youth worker. So she knows, if you tell your kid, whatever you do, don't smoke weed, then when you come across weeds, you're gonna be like, hmm, I want to try. Cause my mom said not to, so I should. But for me, it was more like,

I didn't smoke weed like majority of my life. I've smoked weed loads of times now. But at the time I didn't smoke at all. Until I was like 19, 20, I didn't even smoke weed once cause just didn't feel weed like majority of my life. I've smoked weed loads of times now, but like At the time I didn't smoke at all until I was like 19 20 I didn't even smoke weed once cuz just didn't feel the need to all my friends did but I was just like It's nothing special to me. I know what that does. I'm good, you know, and that's cuz my mom she she did well Cuz she said look, I don't want you to but if you do here's how to stay safe, which I think is a great way of pairing I'll be honest. So yeah, man, I think my mom was sick at pairing She'll tell you if she was here. she'd say I wasn't the best mom, but I think she was actually the best mom honestly because

Most of my morality and like how I feel about life and my sense of justice just comes from my mom Do you think she could tell how scared you were when she was ill? Yeah, definitely Yeah, she gets over for sure, but I kind of like held it together For my little brother because I think the most important thing is that because he's highly intelligent I just wanted him to make sure he could get all his grades done. And he's got a great job now, by the way, he's doing really well. So big on my little brother, but we just wanted to make sure that he had the best chance of achieving greatness. You know what I'm saying? So even for me, when I became a rapper, it was great for me because

it was like, I wanted to be a lawyer originally. I went to study criminology, criminology, as you know, but it kind of just wasn't clicking for me. And I was like, hmm, I don't want to be like the one in the family who, you know, my cousin is doing really well and everyone's doing great. And then I'm like the let down. I didn't want to be the failure. So it was great for me that, you know, people listen to my music. Thanks. Appreciate it.

You also had this moment which you've described in the past as like the heroin switch, the going cold turkey from your old life. Yes, yes. And that's when you changed your name professionally. It is indeed. I'd love to know more about that name change. You know some people say when they want a fresh start they cut their hair. Yes. It's like that, it's like it's just a fresh change. I changed my name and it was like I can let go of the old name, the connotations of the old name, whatever it is I did to make ends meet, I can just kind of move forward with being a professional adult, being a professional man and just doing things by the book

and making money and achieving things and being successful. I think the name change was needed to kind of start fresh, you know, clear the slate. And I moved out of Labrador Grove, I moved to Fulham and I like kind of just broke away from some of the bad influences that are around me. And yeah, and just allowed me to crack on with life and just be a be an adult do my own washing your mother named you Chae she did after Che Guevara exactly how big an influence has Che Guevara been on? Yeah big actually very big because you know his story is a great one, and I always believe in Standing up for the for the for the little guy. You know that's important I think that's a theme in my life that always tried to to do. And whenever I'm in a position of power,

I try to speak up for people who don't have a voice. So I think a massive influence, I'm big up my mom because she basically said, I named you Trey so that you couldn't ever be a far right politician. Do you know what I'm saying? You have to be some sort of, at least, if not left, like left leaning,

because your name's Trey Guevara, so you're not gonna really get away from it. She did well, I'll be honest. Why did you choose AJ Tracy? Good question so I chose AJ Tracy because one it sounds like an actual name rather than like a street tag you know so it's easier to sell records as AJ Tracy than as if your name was like I don't know whatever you know something a bit more hood it's easier to sell records and I just thought this is going to give me the best chance of selling a product legitimately. Like if I want to sell music to kids, it's not going to be the kids buying it, it's their

parents buying it. So as long as it sounds like someone, they could be buying their kids music, you know, AJ Tracy doesn't sound the same as 50 cent or whatever. It just sounds a bit more, you know, you know what I'm trying to say? So that's, that's kind of why I did it. And I think actually it did help a lot. It helped a lot because when people meet me it's like there's no connotation They don't think of anything negative when they hear my name. It just sounds like a name

It could be anything, you know, but that's kind of why I changed my name. It's got a good rhythm to it It does. Yeah, so nice amount of syllable. Yeah, I agree So do you think there's a a separation between and AJ? So at home are you Che? Yeah, at home I'm just Che, honestly. I'm just Che at home. When I walk into my door, I don't wanna talk about music, I don't wanna talk about shows, I don't wanna talk about jewelry, cars, nothing.

I wanna talk about life and just be normal. And it's nice for me, because I can take the mask off and just be myself. And I think it's very important that artists have a separation between their stage name and their actual name because At the end of the day when I go out in public I'm gonna have to be AJ Tracy because that's what people know me as and they don't know me as Che but amongst my family And friends I can still just be Che and they don't have to feel any pressure of treating me like AJ Tracy

Which is great because I'd hate to be treated like yeah any difference anyone else amongst my friends and family So when you go on stage, do you adopt the AJ? Yeah, it's a mask. It's honestly, it's a mask. Before I get on stage, I kind of like, not meditate, but you know, I calm down, do some breathing and I'm like, cool. I'm AJ because if I'm having a bad day, imagine I'm having a horrible day. I could just, you know, argument with the missus, whatever. My little brother's annoying me, whatever. Um, I don't want to take that on stage. That's, that's, I shouldn't bring that into the music

wrong because people who came and paid for a ticket to see me, they don't want to know about what I've got going on at home and who I'm arguing with and they don't want to buy that actually. They want to see, they came to see a good show, they came to enjoy and a lot of people who are in that crowd, you know, it could be their first ever show, could be their last ever show, you never know, you know. So it's important for me to put my best foot forward and I used to, when I was younger, I used to drink before I go on stage for a bit of confidence. I'm quite an anxious person, but obviously I grew into it.

I don't drink before stage anymore because it's a bit unprofessional. I don't want to be drunk and forget my lyrics. I want to give the best performance I can and then I can get drunk after if I want to. You're quite an anxious person. I am, I'm quite an anxious person. I just get anxious over everything to be honest.

Do you think that's partly because you're a perfectionist? Or do you think? Partly, partly because of that. Also partly because of where I grew up and it's just like When you get news, it's usually bad news. So they say, you know, no news is good news. So any news I get usually I'm just a bit like, ah, what now? You know? And do you get any help for that? I don't. I probably should get some help to be honest, but no, I don't. I don't. I think I mostly manage it. I mostly manage it. I think even when I'm anxious I'm quite a logical person. I live my life based on logic.

I'm very aware that you mentioned your mum not wanting to move from the area because she wanted to go on Grenfell Marches. That was one of the things. Very important to her. I'm not surprised. It must have been such a traumatic and defining tragedy in all of your lives because that's just around the corner. And all of us in the area that's just around the corner. All of us in the area, for everyone, you know, everyone who lives in Labrador from the super affluent

to, you know, the unfortunately impoverished people, we all have to deal with it. And at the end of the day, from my mum's front room window, we used to live on Cambridge Gardens in Labrador, which is right by the train station. I don't know if you've been to Labrador. I know exactly where that is. You know where that is? Perfect.

So out of my mum's back window, we have, you we have the flyover and behind the flyover you can see Grenfell. So my whole life that's been the backdrop of my life. So when it was on fire unfortunately my mum could see it. She could see it on fire from the window so it's inescapable. And unfortunately I lost a friend in the fire. I'm so sorry. Thank you.

A lot of people in the area lost friends and family in a fire and it was avoidable. This is what really makes everyone upset because it was avoidable. If it's unavoidable, it's easier to get past something, it's easier to grieve and accept something when it's unavoidable because there's nothing you can do about it. But when there was something you can do about it, this is when obviously the pain comes because it's like, why didn't we do something about it? And I think not to make everything about, you know, social economics and race, but it is partially about that. And I think if the block was full of rich white people, that probably would have never

happened. But unfortunately, because it's full of, you know, immigrants and impoverished people, then people don't care too much as are the claddings flammable? We don't care. Let's save some money, cut corners. I guess it's an impossible question to answer because people lost their lives and so there can be no retribution for that, there can be no peace. But what would help rectify the situation? First of all taking that cladding off any building that is on in the UK and probably in Europe because there are

other buildings that have the same cladding. Second of all someone needs to be held accountable I think it's very important someone or a group of people or an entity needs to be held accountable because how is no one just like no one's been in trouble for that it just doesn't even make sense. How has no one been held accountable it makes really no sense and then you know we have the inquiry into what's going on and if you want my honest opinion obviously nothing was ever gonna come of that of course like you know if me and you are mates and you've done something wrong and someone tells me yeah tell her off of course I'm not gonna do so it's just like you know you're not gonna tell are mates and you've done something wrong and someone tells me, yeah, tell her off, of course I'm not gonna do it. So it's just like, you know,

you're not gonna tell your mates off, are you? So I just, nothing was gonna come of that. I just think it's really nice that people still go on the march, it's nice that people still bring attention to it and that we don't forget about it. And I think the best of a bad situation is just making sure that it never happens again, to be honest. Hello everyone, we're Jamie and Sophie.

You may remember us from nearly-ds and then Newly Wedds. But now guys, things are about to get even wilder as we take on our biggest adventure yet, becoming parents. Yeah, that's right. Newly Wedds is now Nearly Parents and we're bringing you the same honest, heartwarming takes on our journey to parenthood, I guess. Join us as we find out what it really means to become a family while trying not to kill each other. Get ready for Nearly Parents, your favourite new podcast. Before we get onto your final failure I want to ask you about when you played your mum third time lucky

for the first time. What happened? Oh man okay so I was wondering how to do this and basically I didn't want I wanted her to experience it with everyone else that's initially how I felt. I wanted her to hear it as it comes up I don't didn't want to let her know that I was making the song But then I felt like cuz my mom's also a little bit anxious Let me give her a little bit of a heads up and I sent it to her just before it came out a couple hours before She might argue me and say it's an hour before but I'm sure it's more than an hour before So she watched it and then I called her and she was like look I like the message of the song but I feel a little bit ambushed because

obviously my life's kind of just out there now and I said look as I told you I'm a very logical guy and I said so look mama I love you but I know that you can you confirm this you'll be alright and it's gonna help loads of people this song will help a lot of people a lot of people will be able to relate and it might give them some power to be hopeful and I really think that there's more pros than cons to releasing this song. And she just had to sit with it for a bit because the next day she came to my house, she gave me a hug and she was like, yeah, I love the song, thank you. So she's alright now.

But of course, you know, it's her private life and it's out in the public now. So yeah, it's not easy, but it's my lived experience as well as hers, you know. Just quickly, where are you at with your dad now? Yeah, he's cool. We're cool. We're cool. A couple of years ago, I just called him and we reconciled. I just said to him, look, you're getting older.

I'm getting older. There's no point in harbouring any hatred or anything. I love you. At the end of the day, it's not easy being a parent. I've never been a parent, so I don't know how it feels to be a parent. And I'm 31. My dad had me when he was 23. So obviously, I'm way past the age that he was at when I was 23 I was still quite immature so I just said to him like I forgive you you know I'm saying just you know let's

have a good relationship going forward and yeah we're all good now. Do you want to be a parent? Do I want to be a parent? Yeah I'd love to be a parent actually obviously work I always dreaded the thought of like having a kid and then having to like there's nothing wrong with a nanny I'd have no problem having a nanny you know for some occasions but I want to be a present parent and I think that it will be quite hard for me to be present if I have to tour all the time and I also wouldn't

want to make my partner just you know have to deal with a kid all the time that's not fair either so I kind of just wanted to wait until my schedule frees up a bit which then again could be never it could be never but yeah hopefully sometime soonish I hope it's not only up to me, obviously, there's two people in that decision, but yeah, at some point. I think you'd be an amazing parent. I appreciate that, thank you.

I think you already are such a big brother figure for so many people, not just your actual big brother. I hope so, I hope so. Yeah, I hope so. Yeah. For me, the whole point of being a musician and having this kind of platform is that you change people's lives, honestly.

Some people would say to me, that bro, you're a rapper, why do you think you, but I do actually change people's lives. People message me saying like, I really appreciate that you've done that song or your music got me through a hard time. I've had like soldiers in the army, like in the military message me and say, oh, you know, when I'm on tour, like I'm listening to your song

where it keeps me like reminds me of home, keeps me grounded. And that makes me feel really good. Honestly, it makes me feel amazing that like, cool. It's great making money. It's great, you know, doing shows or whatever. I've been on TV, but when people are telling you it's changing their lives, like that's very valuable. And it means that you cool. It's great making money. It's great, you know doing shows or whatever I've been on TV But when people are telling you it's changing their lives like that's very valuable and it means that you're leaving a mark on the planet So yeah, man amazing. So your final failure is football and failure

It is what I love about this is I'm able to now speak about my football team and the failures that we've had in a positive Like yes great for me. This is great. It's the best time for me to do this great So I support Tottenham my whole life My dad grew up in Tottenham. So it makes perfect sense. Before anyone says, oh, you're from West London. Cause Labrador Grove is right next to Chelsea and Coupy Art. So why do I not support Chelsea and Coupy Art?

Because you unfortunately support whoever your mom and dad support. They just tell you, this is your team. You have no choice. I don't think I could even speak when he put a Tottenham top on me. So I couldn't say no. I wish I said no.

No, I don't wish I said no. I love Tottenham. But basically Tottenham has been through some hardship. I'll't say no. I wish I said no. No, I don't wish I said I love them. But basically Tottenham's been through some hardship. I'll say that we haven't won a trophy in 17 years, but before obviously I'm 31 So that's most of my good portion of my life My dad though, however, when he supported on him when he was younger, I thought they were doing really well They used to win the FA Cup all the time had amazing players played really good football A lot of the England team were from Tottenham amazing yeah so he kind of said cool I'm gonna

give my son this you know this life path unfortunately for me that's when it got bad so I was like okay great I'm stuck but football's funny because you know it's quite tribal and once you're with a team that's your team and when they lose you lose you feel bad when they win you feel good and you shouldn't let it affect your mood but it does it just is how it is. I'm a season ticket holder I get down to Tottenham every weekend every other weekend with my little brother and that's like our bonding time because he's busy working he's an important guy now in his job so I barely see him but I do see him at football and you know we have a beer together and we hang out it's really nice. The thing that I could wish for the most

out of my whole football journey of Tottenham is like I just want to see Tottenham lift the trophy with my little brother and I'm glad to say I've now done that which is amazing So my little brother said to me we might be up for a trophy this year because Europa is possible for us to win The path was that quite easy. So he's like I'm gonna book my ticket to Spain at my hotel I don't have a ticket, but we'll see what happens. So zoos water company drip sponsors the Tottenham women team So zoos able to get a few tickets here and there So my little brother said to Zoo if you could sort me out and he did he sorted him out We went to Ville Bale, watched the final, we won amazing, real tears came out my eyes The real tears and yeah celebrated with my brother had a great time and I was middle of tour as well

So what do you think that experience and football generally has taught you about failure? A lot actually it's actually taught me that no matter how far-fetched it seems that you're going to win, you can always win. There's always a chance you can win. And when you do win, it's just pure elation, you know, it's euphoric. Like you win and you're like, great, this moment's actually come. And now none of my Arsenal friends can banter me anymore because they haven't won a European trophy ever and we've got three of them. So when you have your child,

will you make them into Tottenham fans? Yeah, they've got no choice, unfortunately. If it's a girl, I can't wait for her to play for the women's team, if it's a boy, I can't wait for him to play for the men's team. Yeah. Oh, AJ Tracy, I've so loved meeting you. I've really enjoyed it, thank you.

Great questions, great questions. Oh, thank you. And the pink microphones, amazing. They go with your Tottenham kit. They do, they do. It's your Tottenham kit. They do. It's like it's very complimentary. I think you're so brilliant and so smart and talented and inspiring. And...

Pilot on, pilot on. I'm... Yeah, I could keep going. No, thank you. I'm a mega gusher. Thank you. But I really sincerely mean it. Thank you so much for coming on How To Fail.

Thanks for having me. Appreciate it. Thanks so much for listening and watching. This June on How To Fail, we're all about celebrating wellness from the inside. If you'd like to hear more on this, go and listen to my episode with Vicky Patterson, brought to you by Ala Lacto Free. The link is in the episode description. Please do follow How To Fail to get new episodes as they land on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. Please tell all your friends. This is an Elizabeth Day and Sony Music Entertainment

original podcast. Thank you so much for listening.