How To Fail With Elizabeth Day - Alex Hassell - Rivals, Rejection and Taking Acid at Alton Towers

Episode Date: December 10, 2025

You might know the star of Rivals for his revealing role in the hit Disney+ show, but did you know about his dramatic allium allergy?! I thought not. Alex Hassell might be best known for his portrayal of the dashing bounder, Rupert Campbell-Black in the Emmy-Award winning TV adaptation of Jilly Cooper’s Rivals but his career spans the Royal Shakespeare Company, a leading role opposite Anya Taylor-Joy in The Miniaturist, HBO’s His Dark Materials and co-founding the pioneering Factory Theatre Company. In this conversation, Alex reflects on the role therapy and his marriage have played in weathering early-career rejection. We talk about his struggle with self-confidence, his unlikely ’failure’ to get into trouble and the rebellious streak that defined his youth - including that time he took acid at Alton Towers. Plus: having to spray tan his own private parts. This episode was recorded live at the Barbican earlier this year. ✨ IN THIS EPISODE: 00:00 Intro 03:17 Season Two of Rivals 04:35 The Challenges of Acting 05:28 Therapy and Self-Reflection 11:17 Overcoming Self-Doubt 13:31 School Experiences and Bullying 20:13 The Factory Theater Company 23:31 Reflecting on Early Career Challenges 23:57 The Onion Allergy Struggle 28:16 Balancing Historical Accuracy and Sensitivity in 'Rivals' 29:30 The Pressure to Be Good 33:12 Family Influence and Personal Growth 40:57 The Actor's Vulnerability and Connection 💬 QUOTES TO REMEMBER: To withstand being an actor, you have to have very, very thick skin. I am really drawn - for some perverse reason - to parts that intimidate me and that I think I'm probably not capable of playing. I think that acting sometimes can be a bit like being in an abusive relationship in that you feel like the most important and the best... And then it's just taken away and no one wants you and they're not interested and it's like you're a piece of shit. 🔗 LINKS + MENTIONS: Join the How To Fail community: https://howtofail.supportingcast.fm/#content Elizabeth’s Substack: https://theelizabethday.substack.com/ Head shot credit: Morgan Robins 📚 WANT MORE? Dame Jilly Cooper - on bonking, class, adoption and the real-life inspiration for Rupert Campbell-Black https://link.chtbl.com/rjl6Slav Andrew Scott - on bad auditions and his failure to be heteronormative https://link.chtbl.com/18dVhMb_ Sharon Horgan - on the impact of divorce and the liberation of being in your 50s https://link.chtbl.com/hR7kycoN 💌 LOVE THIS EPISODE? Subscribe on Spotify, Apple or wherever you get your podcasts Leave a 5⭐ review – it helps more people discover these stories 👋 Follow How To Fail & Elizabeth: Instagram: @elizabday TikTok: @howtofailpod Podcast Instagram: @howtofailpod Website: www.elizabethday.org Elizabeth and Alex answer live audience questions in our subscriber series, Failing with Friends. Join our community of subscribers here: https://howtofail.supportingcast.fm/#content Have a failure you’re trying to work through for Elizabeth to discuss? Click here to get in touch: howtofailpod.com Production & Post Production Coordinator: Eric Ryan Engineer: Matias Torres Assistant Producer: Suhaar Ali Senior Producer: Hannah Talbot Executive Producer: Alex Lawless How to Fail is an Elizabeth Day and Sony Music Entertainment Production. Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts To bring your brand to life in this podcast, email [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Genuinely, I think the tennis court scene, taking all of my clothes off and literally having nothing to hide behind, it's like either I am Rupert or I'm not. Hello and welcome to How to Fail. This is the podcast where each week I ask a guest about three times they failed in life and what it taught them about doing things better. This week we have the actor Alex Hassel on the podcast. Now, many of you might know him as Rupert Campbell Black. from the Disney Plus TV series Rivals, the adaptation of the terrific Jilly Cooper novel. He did me the honour of sitting down opposite me in front of a live audience at London's Barbican. And we spoke about three of his failures in life.

Spoiler, it involves being allergic to onions. I hope you really, really enjoy it. I am so excited about the news that the second season of Rivals is currently being filmed. I can't wait. This episode is brought to you by Squarespace. Now, I know a little bit about building a website because I was pretty hands-on when I launched my own production company and its own website. And I wish Squarespace had been around then because it ultimately makes your life so much easier

by providing built-in solutions all with their best in-class design. And I'm not the only one who feels this, Hackney moves who run the iconic Hackney Marathon and the dusty knuckle bakery and cafe also both use Squarespace. Some of my favourite things about Squarespace include the fact that they make it easier for your customers. Checkout is seamless. Invoicing is easy. You can sell exclusive content on your site by adding a paywall to sell memberships or courses. And you can create a bespoke online presence that perfectly fits your brand. Head to Squarespace. for a free trial and when you're ready to launch, use offer code fail 10 to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. If you know me and my podcast, you'll know that I'm a big

advocate of therapy and have done a lot of work on myself over the years. But something I always found difficult was finding the right therapist for me. I know firsthand how hard it is to find someone you click with who has availability at a convenient time for you. And I wish I'd known about at Ruler, the healthcare company back then. Ruler is on a mission to make high-quality mental health care easy and affordable for everyone. They take most major insurance plans and the average co-pay is only $15 per session. You can now get the quality care you need, when you need it, at a price you can afford. Thousands have already trusted Ruler to support them on their journey toward improved mental

health and overall well-being. Head on over to Ruler.com slash HTF to get started to day. After you sign up, they ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them that our show sent you. Go to ruler.com. That's rula.com slash ht F and take the first step towards better mental health today. You deserve quality care from someone who cares. So my guest tonight is the actor Alex Hassel. Yes. And he is thoroughly deserving of those whoops. You'll have seen him most recently in the smash-hit TV adaptation of Jiddy Cooper's rivals. And when I say, seen him, I really mean you will have seen him, all of him.

Hassel played the irrepressibly attractive founder, Rupert Campbell Black, and managed to give that somewhat dastedly character a soulful quality that left both taggy and a legion of viewers, absolute putty in his strong. spray-tanned hands. Hassel's own life is a far cry from Rupert's debauchery. He was born in South End on Sea in Essex, the son of a, yes, big up the Essex massive, the son of a vicar and a nurse who had four children and fostered more. Hassel was 12 when he went to watch a local musical and realized acting was his future. After school in Chelmsford, he studied at Central School of Speech and Drama, where he met

his wife, the actress Emma King. Before rivals, Hassel appeared in a number of theatre roles, including Henry V for the Royal Shakespeare Company, in the next-door Barbican Theatre 10 years ago. He was also in the TV adaptation of The Miniaturist alongside Anya Taylor Joy and the BBC HBO fantasy series, His Dark Materials. His recent film roles include Young Woman in the Sea with Daisy Ridley, and he is the co-founder of the Factory Theatre Company, which he set up partly to be able to act when the roles weren't coming in. Rejection is, of course, a given in any actor's life. When asked recently how he coached with it, Hassel replied,

therapy and a really good marriage. London, please welcome to the stage, Alex Hassel. Oh, Alex. Are you sick of people objectifying you? No. Okay. Good. Good. I'm glad to hear it. So, Alex Hassel, tell us about season two of rivals, which has just been commissioned. We're very, very excited. Well, unfortunately, Rupert dies in the first episode.

No, no, he doesn't. We, there's not much I can tell you, probably because I actually don't know anything. Because they won't tell us because they don't trust actors. to keep secrets. But I'll probably be on a horse. I'll probably take my clothes off again. I don't know how many or how much. We haven't had those conversations. But yes, I believe most of the cast

without spoiling anything are back. Some of them may not be, who knows. But, yeah, just very, very much excited about doing it. How many spray tans did you have to have for season one? I smelt like biscuits for seven months. I mean weekly spray tans I got to know my makeup artist extremely well

she would have to spray time the only time the only bit that she wouldn't spray was when we did the tennis court scene so I had to spray myself but I've never done a spray tan before so I don't know how much one should do so there was a fear that I might

be too dark or too light I wasn't sure about I think we got away with it depends on the surface area exactly exactly now I wanted to end on that quote about therapy and a really good marriage, because your wife is also an actor

and I wonder if it helps being married to someone who gets it, who understands the pressures. Yes, obviously I don't know different, but I would feel that it does, yes. I mean, it is a very at times, obviously wonderful and can be extremely glamorous life, but

it's a very unusual odd one. You're away from home, a great deal of time. You know, I had to pretend to have sex with lots of people. So there are, yes, there are very sort of individual sort of challenges and peculiarities about the gig. And I think it definitely helps to be with someone who understands this, yes, the, what your mindset, I guess, and also understands that you'll have to go away and that kind of, you know, we're kind of used to it, I suppose. And does therapy make you a better actor?

Oh, that's a really good question. Yeah, well, there are two aspects of acting. there's acting and then there's being an actor which are I think often diametrically opposed to be a good actor I think you have to have a very very thin skin and to withstand being an actor you have to have a very very thick skin so definitely therapy has helped me be able to be an actor and also I am very inquisitive into myself

and the way that I think and the way that the relationships I'm in work and that can only help empathy and sort of understanding the human condition in the ways that brains work and emotions work. So yes, I think I might have stopped acting had it not have been for my therapist. So I'm very grateful to him if he's listening. That's such a sophisticated and interesting answer

and I relate to that idea of having a thin enough skin to let the world in and to feel empathetic, but a thick enough skin to withstand. the exposure and it's almost like we need something breathable but protective like Gorex like that's the idea of kind of skin for anyone I think I've said before that I think that acting sometimes can be a bit like being in an abusive relationship in that you can sometimes get this light shined upon you very very brightly and you feel like the most important and the best and the most sort of seen and loved and witnessed like every part of you can be witnessed

even the sort of grubby, shameful feeling bits, depending on the part you're playing. And then it's just taken away, and no one wants you, and they're not interested, and it's like you're a piece of shit. So trying to weather that and sort of take, undo one's sense of self from that has been a real task. And I think I'm a great deal better at it now. And I think also somehow being better at it

has allowed me to find greater levels of a career and stuff like that, weirdly. I'm going to talk more about your role as Rupert Campbell Black as it pertains to one of your failures but I just wonder if you could tell me a bit about the filming of rivals and how much fun it looks like it was. Was it that fun? I think it was more fun. Yeah, we genuinely all got on so incredibly well. The producers, and all producers say this but it was really true.

They phoned four or five people that every one of us had worked with before to make sure that we were nice people and good to work with. And it really worked. I mean, they always say that if there's no assholes on set, you're the asshole. But I hope that's not true. We just had such a laugh. And as you can see the cast list and guests, everyone has got a filthy sense of humour,

which really helps in a show like that. And it's very game and really supportive and really kind and really funny. And we just had an absolute blast, yeah. And also we're in absolutely beautiful places, getting to pretend to be in the 80s in those sorts of costumes and, you know, riding horses and it was a real wish-fulfillment kind of, yeah. I genuinely, I'm so excited to go back and do the second season, yeah.

What was it like the first time we met Dame Jilly Cooper? I was really nervous. I knew that she had approved my casting and everything, but actually I'd forgotten this is the first time I met her. So we had this read-through. You do it like a table read, which is when you sit around and as many of you, there is possible when you read the script.

I think we've read three scripts or something. And I had just come back from Mexico where I caught a terrible stomach bug and had been in hospital off the plane. I got wheelchair off the plane. So I was like this grey husk of a man turning up. And I already was quite nervous about being Rupert. So I was sort of for quite a while,

slightly wanted to avoid her in case I could see in her eyes that she disapproved with my casting. But after a while, I really felt endorsed by her. But you didn't choose to audition for it, did you? You didn't think you'd get it. Yes, in this instance, I got sent. I think just some scenes, one of them being the post-Concord shag scene.

Which, if anyone hasn't seen Wivals, opens the entire show. Yeah, spoiler alert, there is shagging. And I think maybe the tennis court scene, actually. I kept my clothes on. And I just read it and thought, I'm never going to get that part. It said blonde hair and blue eyes and all of that sort of thing. But also I just, as I'm sure we will talk about, I don't feel like that kind of person at all.

And I felt that I would not get the job. There was no way that they would choose me to get the job. I understood that lots of people would be trying to get this job, and it was a cool thing. And I just thought it wasn't worth it because I thought I won't get it. And I also thought, if I got it, I would feel so ill at ease that I wouldn't be able to pull it off

so I said no I didn't want an audition for it and my agent said shut up we've talked to the casting director and she thinks she'd be really good and just do it so I did it and didn't hear anything for four months I didn't expect to hear anything didn't hear anything for four months or something while they saw every other actor in the world

and then got a call to go and do those scenes with the producers and then with Bella as a chemistry read who plays taggy she'd already been cast and then it was quite quick from there but um and then i had to sort of get my head around it which has took most of season one your agents here tonight yes she is yes so i just want to say a massive thank you um to i would also like to say a massive thank you yes thank you on behalf of all 1,900 of us here tonight your first failure which follows on so seamlessly from this discussion is a failure of self-confidence So when you did get to play Rupert,

how much of a struggle was that to inhabit someone who is so arrogant in many ways? I mean, I really wish this wasn't the case and it feels very kind of masturbatory to talk about it. But I did, which is appropriate in some ways, but I did find it very intimidating. I did question my wife, will know very clearly, I spent a long time really questioning myself

whether I was, you know, acting is vulnerable, for me anyway, it is a vulnerable thing and I am really drawn for some perverse reasons and two parts that intimidate me and that I think I'm probably not capable of playing. And so there is a, you know, you do live in a, I do anyway, for certain roles and for certain amounts of time,

live in a very vulnerable place and you fear that the people that have employed you are regretting, regretting, employing you. Genuinely, I think the tennis court scene, taking all of my clothes off and literally having nothing to hide behind, it's like either I am Rupert or I'm not. Like, this is it, this is what I am and who I am. And, you know, it was sort of freeing, actually, to, from then I felt more easy about it somehow.

You've spoken also very humorously about the fact that everyone else on set was told to treat you as a certain physical specimen, which obviously you are, but did that help your confidence? Yeah. It was going home was slightly difficult sometimes afterwards. Yes, it was extremely

helpful. I really hoped that when we finished season one, a bit of Rupert would rub off on me and I'd be like strutting around, but unfortunately that hasn't quite happened, but maybe two seasons. Yes. We just have to keep recommissioning it until you get your confidence. Until my ego is enormous. Tell me where you.

you feel this lack of self-confidence started, when is the first time that you can remember feeling it? Yes. Well, I was picked on at school. That was, I think, a big part, a really big part of it, I think. You know, unfortunately, I think they got into my head about my sense of self and, like, my sexuality and things like that, in a way that I just thought that I was just a piece of shit in that sort of way and that and also I was really quite in some ways very confident when I was young and came out of drama school and I think as lots of people do expected to sort of stroll into work and like high profile work and it just didn't happen it's been a very I talk about it as being a and also I want to caveat this by saying

one's career and how you feel about it is very much an individual thing I'm sure people would look at my career and think I should fuck off in saying this, if you know what I mean. But it feels like a slow drag up a steep hill, if you know, it hasn't sort of, this is like a really big thing for me to be here and, you know, people know who I am and that kind of thing. I think I thought I was going to just sort of stroll into being successful and it just didn't happen. And I got jobs and stuff. And every time I get a job that I would think would, like, cross over some line and get me somewhere else, it just sort of didn't. Or it did in a much slower way than I think it did ultimately

but in a much slower way than was palpable and one starts to question what's wrong with me like why can't I get jobs am I crap am I not do not look right or is there something uncharismatic or you know like it it's difficult not to turn in on yourself

in that aspect thank you for talking so openly about something that so many of us will relate to that so many of us probably struggle to articulate and to hear someone like you say it who we have all seen on screen embodied this confident nature. We wouldn't necessarily expect that, but I think what it gave you was

this soulful quality to Rupert. Yeah, I wondered that that is true. I actually think potentially, I don't know that when I got the job, they were like, we gave you the job because you were so confident. I was like, I was auditioning for you. Of course I was pretending to be confident. But I do think that they actually probably made a really good, maybe unconscious choice of casting someone who is very, very far from Rupert Campbell-Black

because you get the potentially the finer, more hard-to-express aspects, I suppose, because that's where I sort of am and live more. And I had to work to do the other side of it, whereas if you car someone maybe who was more like that, it might have been harder potentially for them to have found the other stuff, I guess. I don't know. The school experience, what do you think it was that was being picked on? as someone who also was picked on at school

when I was at school in Belfast, obviously I don't have the accent, so I didn't fit in. Right. But what do you think it was about you that made you this target? Yeah, it's a good question. I mean, now I think maybe it actually was because I did have lots of good qualities

and I didn't fucking care about what they wanted me to be. Like I didn't, I hated being at school in Essex didn't, sorry for those who shouted out about South Ed there. It wasn't South End. You don't hate Essex. I felt very much a fish out of water. I felt, I guess, very artistic

and sort of vulnerable and fine spirited, I suppose, and that, you know, at school in Essex can be blunted out of you a bit. Or in the 90s, anyway, but that's definitely not how I felt at the time. I thought there was something deficient in me that they were picking up on. Like so many people, like my whole year,

like almost, it was sort of, Well, that's what happens with kids, isn't it? They can jump on a bandwagon about that because it's easier. And I understand that. And I'm forgiving of that. But it wasn't a great experience. I'm so sorry you went through that. I wonder if any of those school bullies have been in touch since you played Rupert Campbell Black.

I've got some. I mean, one amazing thing that happened is when I think also partly because people that know me know that I'm not like that. And know that I've been working really hard to try and, you know, get somewhere. And I got so many incredibly lovely messages that make me want to tear up. It was so gratifying, and it means so much. But it's so fascinating. It's, you know, really a big impact

in that, apart from Rupert Campbell Black, most of the characters I play are evil, horrible, violent murderers. And I think there is a desire to say, I would fucking kill you if you, like, came near me again. Like, unconsciously, obviously, I wouldn't. I would be able to punch them very close to the face. Yes. But not in the face.

In and of itself a skill, not everyone. But I agree with you that I think fuel is fuel. And sometimes what drives us is wanting to prove people wrong. Yeah, I do think that's a massive part of it, definitely, yeah. Yeah, definitely. I think that drives me hugely, I think, wanting to prove them wrong and prove myself wrong, I think. And in therapy the other day, my therapist said something. I was talking about feeling, I was talking about what I would talk about here.

and I talk about failures and stuff and I was talking about confidence and he was saying that obviously I do actually have a really massive sense of confidence otherwise I wouldn't be sitting here talking about my failures in front of all, I wouldn't be taking all of my clothes off in front of everyone I wouldn't be being an actor

I obviously believe that I could do it and can do it so there is that and I want to get more in contact with that part of me because and it's not like I'm a massive nervous record at the time that it's definitely not you know I'm capable of working I'm capable of like please employ me if you are a director and here I'm not that much of a mess.

Well, there was this very interesting quote that I read that you gave about loving difficulty. You said, I regret almost immediately that I'll take a job and I'm really drawn to something that I don't know how to do and I'm not sure I'm good enough to do then I get massively insecure about it along the way.

But is there a sort of creative aspect to that difficulty that you thrive on? I think I want to know how good an actor I am and find the edges of that out. I think I want to go, I don't think I, I just, I think maybe I could do that and I want to find out if I'm capable of doing it. I want to be in the mindset of someone else.

That doesn't exist, but like a different mindset of my own. I find that really interesting to explore. The idea that I could get through the other side. Yes. It means a lot to me, I suppose. And there's an exploration to the unknown, but the unknown in and of itself is quite theory, inducing a lot of the time I imagine but tell me about the factory group because I'm fascinated by

this because that speaks to what we're talking about yeah so that's some that is entirely about being put in the most terrifying acting situation so in a very very quick summary of the work we do I'll explain the first show that we did which was hamlet and because we didn't have any money and we didn't want to try and make and raise any money we didn't want to spend time doing that so that meant that we had to have a cast that shifted so we all learned a bunch of parts so I knew 13 parts in Hamlet by the end of it. We all worked really, really, really hard on the verse pattern, so there was a sort of structure

that would hold this chaos. If we were playing here, we would do maybe Act 1 on the stage, Act 2, we would put all of you on the stage, and we would be in the balcony, Act 3 would be in the bar, Act 4 would be in the road, and Act 5 would be on the roof. And we wouldn't have planned that.

Someone would have planned it, but none of us actors would have known. We didn't have any costume or set or props, and the audience would bring random objects, with them which we would then incorporate into the show. And also sometimes we would say, right, we'll start on the stage here and then the actors will just decide.

So you'd be playing Hamlet and like cajoling a thousand people into a different part of a building and stuff. It was so terrifying. It was so terrifying. But such an incredible crucible of learning. Like if you aren't sucking

in that environment, that means you are capable of something. being able to hold people's attention and I had some of the most revelatory sort of moments of connection to a text that I've ever had in those instances because it was all accidental. We didn't have any blocking either,

so we didn't know where we were going to go, obviously. So it was incredibly, we also was anti-interpretation. We weren't allowed to decide what our characters were like or what they felt about stuff or what they thought. You just, this night, this is what it's like. And it was wild, yeah. So we played in clubs to, you know, we played a festival at four in the morning when everyone, including us, were high as kites. And like we played in like the globe and we played in art galleries and it was kind of this underground thing for a while.

And didn't you use your baby nephew as a prop? Yeah, that's right. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. So people would bring like their dogs and like, like my dad was the ghost once and stuff like that, for example. And so Henry, my brother bought Henry, who was four weeks old. And we weren't allowed to plan like if you, you saw something in the audience that you thought you wanted to use, you weren't allowed to decide, like, early on, oh, I'm going to do that, because that would sort of kill the serendipitous feeling of it anyway. So I happened to pick him up for what a piece of work is man, how noble in reason, how infinite in faculty, in form and moving, how express and admirable, in action, how like an angel, in apprehension, how like a god, the beauty of the world, the paragon of

animals. And yet to me, what is this quintessence of dust? Man delights not me, no, no, or woman neither. And I burst into tears while saying, man, delights, not me. Because I was holding this incredibly innocent, well, I didn't really know why, but thinking about it afterwards, because I was holding this beautiful, innocent child full of promise and full of, and I just desperately didn't want him ever to feel like that, I suppose. And what was so wonderful about that is I couldn't have faked that, you know, I couldn't, that would have been bullshit. And it really communicated to me and to everyone in the room because it was totally accidental. Yeah, it was very scary.

I definitely think the experience of doing the factory really, really, really helped me in, you know, later jobs in terms of a feeling of a sense of self and a sense of, you know, I do have something to offer. Have you got an idea for a business in your head, but never felt like it's quite the right time to launch into it? Perhaps it's a design, craft or just this brilliant idea you've always wanted to develop but haven't yet gone for it. Well, January is the perfect time to grab the bull by the horns and finally launch and be your own boss. And you're not on your own. Shopify is here to help. Millions of entrepreneurs have already made this leap, from household names to first-time business owners just getting started. And massive brands like Heinz, Mattel and even Haley Bieber's brand. Road, all use Shopify. If Haley Bieber's doing it, I want it to. With Shopify's built-in

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This week on lipstick on the rim, we sat down with the one and only Rachel Zoe and wow. This episode is a ride. We talked about

everything. Motherhood, divorce, finding herself again, joining real housewives literally overnight. And then she said this. Can I tell you a true story?

In COVID, in the darkness of COVID, I had a cat eye. every single day where nobody saw me, not one soul. And when I had COVID, not even my ex-husband saw me or my children. And you know what I did? I went in to my bathroom. I did a black liquid liner put on lashes, black liner in the water line, a full lip, did my hair, and sat in my bed. And that is what I did. And I looked at myself and I said,

you are not a well person. I said, are you fucking okay? You have 104 fever. You are like, you are like contagion right now. If you love fashion, beauty or bravo, this Rachel Zoe episode is a must. It's out now.

We're going on to your second failure, which is equally profound and philosophical in so many ways because your second failure is your failure to eat onions. Yeah. To be fair, it's onion, garlic, leeks, shallots, spring onions and chives. Allium. Allium, the Allium family. And you are all thinking, now, God, I love onion and garlic. Fuck you. That's what I'm thinking. And you're also thinking, but that's the first two ingredients in every single meal that you make.

And fuck you, again, that's too. Yeah, it's really a total bastard, yeah. When did you discover this failure? I think I had it. As a kid, I had operations on my stomach when I was a kid. and stuff. I had what my family would call a dog belly, which was like a massive distended belly 100% of the time till I was in my 30s. You can see it in early jobs I did and stuff in the bottom of a shot. I didn't know what it was. Food allergies weren't a thing when we were young. So later on, I was sort of shamed by a producer because I had this massive belly and decided to just stop eating everything and slowly reintroduce stuff and thankfully worked out what it was. And now if I do avoid them, I'm completely and utterly fine. But it's extremely.

difficult to avoid them and I'll roll around in pain for a week I'll projectile vomit and it's awful like the number of times and events that I ruined by puking on things and on people like when I was young yeah the one potentially the worst but it was a church fate when I was young and I like felt really really ill but we saw there's nothing to do about it and I was just like I'm going to puke so I thought I know what I'll do I'll go over to this side thing here and puke over that because that will be safe it was three flights up on a like stairway and it went into slow motion as I puked and it hit this old lady like full on her whole back and I had to go around and apologize to her and everything oh Alex that's that's low-key trauma yeah yeah yeah it is a bastard I missed two shows of Henry Sam who's here he went on as my understudy

um thank you Sam it's glib to talk about but it is it is actually of all sort of it's a bodily failure of course but out of benefit it's the most frequent thing that I'm in contact with all the time it's like every single meal I mean it sounds like it's very difficult to avoid yeah I just yeah yeah I get ill not that much but yeah too much really yeah so when you go to restaurants sorry to get

into the nitty gritty but are there many restaurants that cater for that well we often try and phone in advance and stuff but the number of times my wife and I have been like in a different city be like, oh, I will go to a restaurant. Wouldn't that be great? And then it's a bit too late.

We probably should have gone half an hour ago. And then we'll go find a restaurant. Be like, this looks great. And we'll sit down and it'll be like, this is lovely. And then they'll say, you cannot eat anything in this restaurant. Like in Paris, I said, I can't eat gluten either or onion and garlic. And he's like, why are you here? Like, why are you in Paris?

Yeah, exactly. And there's some people who are like, that Alex Hassel. What are Mariah Carey? I do often say, I often say, I can't eat gluten. I can't eat onion. It's not an affectation. Right. That's what you say. But it's so annoying because I have to, you know, I phone up in advance and then I say it when we order and then they bring it and I say it. And they're like, yes, definitely, 100%, 100%.

And then the other day we're in a restaurant and we're like, great, excellent, this is lovely. I ate it, put it down and they came over and went, oh, I'm so sorry. And it was like, oh, no. So I had to go home and drink salt water and put my fingers down my throat. And it's just absolute agony. Yeah. Woe is me. I'm so sorry. What's on-set catering like for you then? Well, I have to just, yeah.

I mean, they take it really seriously, but I have to just hound them all the time. I did get ill on a film set once, and the only thing that has worked, actually, so if anyone could, like, back black market, get me some of this, I'd really appreciate it. But gas and air worked. Okay.

I did the rest of the day totally off my tits, but I didn't, I wasn't puking. And actually, it was one of the best scenes in the film. What was the catering like on rivals? It was all right. Okay. Yeah, it was good, it was great. I think it'll be better in the second season.

Okay, got it, right? Just thinking about that, because we're of a similar generation, and when we were growing up, allergies were very much seen as not really real. And it sort of makes me think about rivals as well, because it is a period piece rival. but I imagine it was quite difficult sometimes to tread that line. There is a sexual assault half way through the season.

Well, there's a sexual assault in the second episode by me to the person who ends up being my love interest who is like 18 years younger than me. Was that awkward? Were you ever worried about treading that line? Really worried about that, yeah. And there were discussions about taking it out or not taking it out. And I think it's so important that they didn't. I think that is what happened to lots of people and still does happen to people. I think it was a really bold thing of them to do

and I think partly potentially what's connected with people is that it is a period piece so all of those things do happen in the show there's lots of smoking, there's lots of sex, there's casual misogyny and racism that it is not sanitised. It is not condoning any of those things. I think it's really clear to me that the show

is not condoning those actions but it is exploring how far we've come or not come by showing them, I think. Okay, your final failure, this is such a good one, I can't wait to get into it, is your failure to get in trouble? Yeah. So are you a very well-behaved man?

I'm so painfully worried about other people and they're, like, recently since rivals have come out, you know, have been invited to sort of sexy events. And I'm always the first person there. Like I forced my wife, she's like, we could leave a bit later. And I'm the first person there. And no one expects you to be there for like an hour and a half. because you're supposed to be cool, and I'm not cool.

So, yes, I am, you know, I'm very obedient. I want to be on time, and I want to be thought of as professional. I just worry about people and their feelings. I mean, obviously, that's good, but maybe a bit too much. Do you want people to like you? Yeah, I guess so, yeah. It's not that as much, really, as I don't want to make people feel uncomfortable. my dad was a vicar

I think that's probably part of it I was grown up to be responsible people would come around the house and you'd have to be sensitive and I didn't rebel against my parents really very much I've got older brothers and sisters and they'd sort of done everything in terms of getting in trouble and stuff but work and being good at my work

is really really really important to me and therefore I am sort of a bit obsessive with it and therefore you know when we were shooting rivals it's such an amazing group of people but I'd be like going to bed and getting up early and working out and like making sure my skin was good like all that kind of stuff

so yeah I'd love to be more rock and roll and like and more just feel less worried about that stuff I'm fascinated by your upbringing your dad was a vicar your mom ended up as a hospice nurse and they fostered children

before you came along so clearly incredibly decent people yeah yeah was there a pressure that you felt to be as good as them um not like they didn't sort of you know really they're really lovely down to earth you know loving people uh you know and my dad became a vicar when he'd already like really late on in life he'd already been an accountant he was a quaker in fact and um he had a calling essentially and two years later was training to be a vicar so he'd led a whole life and everything so it's not like he was super dogmatic or that sort of thing.

But I wonder weirdly that I've had like a Jesus complex in terms of like wanting to put my needs behind those around me and it's really important to me that when I'm working that other people enjoying the environment that we're in and feel comfortable and feel seen. I think I've realized recently that I think people feeling seen and me feeling seen and like the really, you know, partly why I wanted to come do this, I think.

to have the chance and the bravery to throw light on stuff that is quite vulnerable and difficult to talk about and maybe lots of people don't do it out loud. If I can play parts that people see aspects of themselves reflected and they feel a bit better about their experience or less alone or something like that, this is very highfaluting, I know, and I'm like in rivals, it's not like, like I think I want that for myself and therefore want to attempt to give it to other people and therefore I want to be on time

in case I fuck up this person's job whose job it was to do the timekeeping I want to hang my costume up at the end of the day so that they can go home as early as I can go home all of those sorts of things yeah and I wonder if I could talk a little bit about your mother and that experience of working in a hospice

do you think you learnt from her and from your dad about life and death and I know that's such a huge question but I'm so interested well I mean there are some things that in my family we just talked about all the time like at the dinner table you know yeah death was just

that was my mum's job and my dad's job I think actually my dad being a vicar has had a massive impact on my idea of me as an actor somehow. I remember really clearly that I realized at the factory, for example, we would do often in, like, church halls. It would be on a Sunday. It cost very, very little to come.

It was like really egalitarian. People could walk around. People could bring their kids. People could be involved, people. And essentially, I was filtering this, like, bigger idea and like this text that is this bigger text and trying to do it really rawly and openly. And I remember really clear that my dad,

when he would do sermons, would always use the same voice that he spoke to me at home in. He just had his John Hassel voice. He didn't like turn on a performance. So the idea of trying to talk to people as a human being, I think I learnt that and I think that was a really big. And I think empathy and the idea of accepting people as much as possible and a lot of that I think has come out in my work in some way.

So what do your family think of you as Rupert Campbell, Black? What have they said to you about rivals? They're really, really proud. They're so proud. I mean, yeah, I think it was quite weird for them to watch some of it. My mum was like, oh, it's fine. I saw, you know, I saw you when you were young. I looked exactly the same.

And, yeah, they really took it in their strides, actually, yeah. And I think they're so, you know, they've been alongside the difficult, slow drag up the hill and I think they feel very proud of that I've managed to sort of peek over the edge a little bit more. How old does your nephew Henry know? He's 17 now. Is he 17? I think he's 16 or 17 yeah. So has he seen rivals? Yeah he has yeah they all have yeah yeah they all have yeah and like show me TikToks of me and me and bella and stuff like that which is mind-bending yeah and like their friends you know I send their friends voice notes and things like that occasionally, yeah, it's nice.

Now, I don't want to say on Theresa May, but not a sentence I ever thought, I'd say. What's the naughtiest thing you've ever done? I ran through a wheat field once. Did you? Did you? In kitten heels. Yes. With Theresa May.

Oh my gosh. Were you fully clothed or... The image, I know, sorry. It's eradicate that. I mean, I mean, that, I think that's probably too personal. Is it? Is it? I mean, you know, I did a bunch of, like, drugs and stuff.

Okay. Like, you know, I did acid at Alton Towers. That was really interesting. What? Yeah. When I was 16 or 17, yeah. Mom, if you're listening. I think she knows this, has she?

Yeah. And we went in, like, the 3D cinema and on, like, roller coasters. It was nuts. Wow. Yeah, it was nuts. I bet it was. I was much cooler and naughtier when I was young. I think that's the issue.

The failure, what I felt of as massive, glaring, painful, you're, like, obviously not where you think you are, painful in my 20s, like, really transformed the way that I saw myself in a way that I'm still trying to get over now. And I'm really trying, and I really want to take this and the success of rivals and what people think of rivals as being like, come on, Alice, get over yourself, for God's sake. like enjoy your whatever you cut through the world being or are or whatever and it has really

really helped i mean i'm so it meant so much to me that people didn't think i was shit and gross and you know had a tiny penis in um like it has meant an enormous amount to me that it's that a part about which i felt so vulnerable you couldn't see that i felt that vulnerable i think that has really hopefully is sort of tectonically changing aspects of myself yeah well i always often think that the art of pretending to be confident is a really important muscle to flex in order to get to be confident. And I have this realization in my 30s where I felt a neurotic mess of insecurity and still too. But I wrote a male character in a novel who was incredibly bombastic and never questioned his decisions. And I thought, and I had great fun writing that character. And I thought,

well, if I can write that character and imagine what it is to be him, surely that lies within me. And if I could be just sort of 2% more him, maybe that would help. And so I wonder, not only Rupert Camel Black, but are there other roles that have helped you flex that muscle of confidence?

Henry V for instance. Yeah, I mean, I guess things have helped me flex a thing of confidence in terms of that, in terms of feeling like people appreciated my work in complex roles. But also, what I think is really important, and again, thank you, my therapist, said that he thinks, and as soon as he said it, like, of course that's true, that what if I am, if I have anything to offer as an actor, what that is, is because of all of these things that I struggle with, it's the stuff, it's my vulnerability, it's the fineness, it's the sensitivity, it's, you know, all of those, the things that I wish I didn't have so I could feel stronger to be an actor are potentially what helped me to be a, hopefully a good actor. Is there a dream role that you have that you are aspiring to play one day?

I'd really like to play the Scottish King. I mean, I'm not, I'm not, you know, superstitious, but it feels, I shouldn't say it. We shouldn't say the name on stage. Yes, the Scottish king of Shakespeare. Okay. Rhymes with Megadeth. Yeah.

That was such a bad rhyme. Wait, tell me, you told me before we came on stage because I love my facts and my trivia. You know the story behind why actors say break a leg before they go on stage. That's right. So why you don't say good luck you say break a leg is that it's got nothing to do with your legs, I believe.

In the old days, you would have these massive, heavy red curtains and if the play had gone really, really well, you'd get to do loads of bows, and that would mean that they would bounce the curtain, which you'd bow, they'd bounce the curtain, they'd bring it up, they'd bounce again. and the piece of wood on the crank for the curtain was called a leg so if the play went so well you had to bow so many times

they had bounced the curtain so much that it would break the leg I mean it's just a great fact well so why you don't say the name of the Scottish the Scottish King is nothing to do with the witches and all of that it's actually that it was in the olden days the unspecified olden days it was the most successful play in any rep anywhere. So if you had a play, you'd have a rep where you'd do a bunch of plays. If you put on a

play and it was failing and was a massive turkey and no one wanted to come to see it, you'd whip it off quickly and put that play on. So the reason that you don't say it is because you're damning your production to fail. Oh my gosh, that is just the most perfect thing to draw this segment of tonight to a close. But I want to ask you before I do that, what this has felt like for you? it's been really really great really interesting I'm very in touch as you can probably tell with my sense of failure and like attempting to you know like move past it and all that kind of thing

so I it's vulnerable to talk you know openly about these sorts of things in front of lots of people but I also think partly for me I think that's part of the job of the actor not necessarily to talk about it but to be someone who goes I will get up in front of all of you and do the stuff that maybe other people can't show in front of loads of people or don't have, you know, that is usually confined to closed doors. I think that's part of it. Yeah, there is this quality of you that is very present and I really appreciate it and I want to thank you so much for sharing it. Not only

tonight because I do really believe that vulnerability is the point of all connection. It is how we understand what makes us human and it is what helps us reach out to someone else. And this has been such a beautiful example of that on stage night, but also in the way that you play your roles. But for now, please show your appreciation for the amazing Alex Hassel. Thank you very much. Please do follow How to Fail to get new episodes as they land on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon music or wherever you get your podcasts, please tell all your friends. This is an Elizabeth Day and Sony Music Entertainment original podcast. Thank you so much for listening.