How To Fail With Elizabeth Day - BONUS EPISODE How to Fail: Dr Alex George

Episode Date: May 12, 2021

TW: discussions about suicideFor Mental Health Awareness Week, we have a very special bonus episode with Dr Alex George. A former Love Island contestant who after exiting the villa, returned to his job as an A&E doctor. Throughout the Covid-19 pandemic, he’s been hard at work on the frontline. Behind the scenes, he has had to cope with devastating personal tragedy - his younger brother, Llyr, died by suicide in July 2020. Alex’s openness about his own mental health has been a comfort for many, and in February he was appointed the UK’s Youth Mental Health Ambassador.  This week marks the publication of his first book, Live Well Every Day.Alex joins me to talk openly about everything he’s been through - from failing to get the grades for med school to getting sunburned on Love Island. We talk about mental health, resilience, fear, depression, introversion - and why he loves bath bombs. We also talk about his brother’s death at the age of 19, the guilt Alex feels at not having known Llyr was struggling and the lifelong pain his absence has left behind. Thank you Alex, for all that you do and for trusting me with your story.*This special episode is sponsored by Jo Malone London *If you've been affected by any of the issues discussed, Samaritans are here to help. Call them for free on 116 123 or email [e-mail]*Alex's book Live Well Every Day is out now and available to order here.*How To Fail With Elizabeth Day is hosted by Elizabeth Day and produced by Naomi Mantin and Chris Sharp. We love hearing from you! To contact us, email [e-mail]*Social Media:Dr Alex George @dralexgeorgeElizabeth Day @elizabdayHow To Fail @howtofailpod Jo Malone London @jomalonelondon  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Make your nights unforgettable with American Express. Unmissable show coming up? Good news. We've got access to pre-sale tickets so you don't miss it. Meeting with friends before the show? We can book your reservation. And when you get to the main event, skip to the good bit using the card member entrance.

Let's go seize the night. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Visit amex.ca slash yamex. Benefits vary by card. Other conditions apply. This How to Fail Mental Health Awareness Week podcast special is sponsored by Jo Malone London. Jo Malone London is proud to shine a light on mental health today and every day. They are committed to funding all stages and aspects of mental health, focusing on awareness, prevention, support, and treatment. They've created four delicious smelling charity home candles designed to stamp out stigmas one step and candle at a time. 75% of each sale of one of these candles goes directly to supporting mental

health projects and inspirational charities who help individuals and families affected by mental health problems. Through their charity candle collection to date, Jo Malone London has given over 2.5 million pounds to their 11 mental health charity partners, helping to raise awareness and stamp out taboo, providing support, to raise awareness and stamp out taboo, providing support, empowering people to recover, to reconnect and to grow. So this Mental Health Awareness Week, why not make your home smell absolutely delightful and contribute to mental health charities by going to www.jomalone.co.uk forward slash how to fail. You can discover the Jo Malone London charity candle collection for yourself at www.joemalone.co.uk forward slash how to fail. Thank you very much to Jo Malone London. Hello and welcome to How to Fail with Elizabeth Day,

the podcast that celebrates the things that haven't gone right. This is a podcast about learning from our mistakes and understanding that why we fail ultimately makes us stronger. Because learning how to fail in life actually means learning how to succeed better. I'm your host, author and journalist Elizabeth Day, and every week I'll be asking a new interviewee what they've learned from failure. The last time I interviewed Dr Alex George it was 2018 and he had just come out of the Love Island villa. He taught me how to smoulder for the newspaper photos and we talked about what it meant to be a peng sort. Fast forward two and a bit years and Dr Alex has transformed himself

from former reality TV contestant into national treasure. After Love Island, he returned to work as an A&E doctor. Throughout the COVID-19 pandemic, he has been at the front line in Lewisham Hospital, South London, dealing with unimaginable pressure on a daily basis. On Instagram, he shares both his good and bad days and is an honest, informative and calming presence. You get the real sense that he genuinely wants to make people feel better. In February, he was appointed the UK's Youth Mental Health Ambassador. It is an area with deeply personal resonance for Alex. In July 2020, his youngest brother died by suicide. A tragedy, Alex says, that he will never

get over. Alex grew up in a village in Carmarthenshire in Wales, the oldest of three boys. He knew he wanted to be a doctor from the age of 12 and went on to study medicine at the University of Exeter, graduating with distinction. When he was 27, producers from Love Island spotted his dating profile on Bumble and asked him to reply to the show. He did, and has, he says, no regrets. Well, perhaps just the one, but we'll come on to that later. Today, Dr Alex is one of the hardest working men in the country. As well as his A&E shifts, he has his own successful podcast, The Waiting Room, is a regular TV presenter, and has

just published his first book, Live Well Every Day, which promises seven steps to a healthier life. With all that going on, I don't quite know how he's found the time to come on this How to Fail Mental Health Week special, but I'm truly delighted that he has. Dr. Alex George, welcome to How to Fail. Well, thank you so much, first of all, for having me. And actually, to be honest, it's an honour coming on to this podcast. Now, you did catch me out just before starting this. There is an episode I've missed, which I'll have to catch up on. But I would say that I'm an avid listener of this show.

is an episode I've missed, which I'll have to catch up on. But I would say that I'm an avid listener of this show. And actually, I've found a lot of comfort, a lot of inspiration hearing your conversations with your guests. So honestly, the honour really is all mine. Oh, you're so lovely. Thank you, Alex. And just researching for this interview and writing that introduction really brought it home to me, the pace of change in your life from 2018, when you came out of Love Island to now which has just been two and a half years but I know that it has probably felt like many many lifetimes in one has it felt like that for you? It has it's strange I feel that the memories of the villa if you like and being on that show to me it feels like a decade ago at least that I honestly it's unimaginable in

a way and I find it odd to look at the numbers and see that it's only really been a couple of years and you know the last time you you interviewed me actually was my first big interview after the show I've been quite nervous and you were very kind actually to me you were very gentle I think that's fair to say and I just find it strange to think about how much has happened what's changed I think when we spoke last I was probably a little bit lost after the show I came out and you know I didn't have any grand plans going on that show I was basically being forced to go on it by my consultant and good friend of mine who's a massive fan of the show and said well you've got to go on there and then the next thing I know come out with all these followers and I was a little bit lost I think but the best decision I made was going back to A&E without a shadow of a doubt and I stuck to

my guns I kind of sat down and thought what do I care about in life and what are the issues that matter to me and mental health and well-being and being a voice of these kind of issues was very important to me and I followed that throughout and it's kept me in good stead I think. It was very impressive you know when I met you in 2018 that was for a newspaper interview and I remember you saying I'm going to go back to work and I believed you but I was like is that really going to happen at the same time I was like how is that going to work back to work and I believed you but I was like is that really going to happen at the same time I was like how is that going to work because you were actually an incredibly famous figure then for something totally different and yet you have made it work in a way that I really

truly admire and I think that you're possibly one of the only Love Island alumni who has done that who has returned to their former life but it does make me worry about your diary because are you a workaholic yes I think there's no hiding away from that and I think when you look inwards and think about you know your strength and your weaknesses it's strange because my workaholicness if you like is both one of my greatest strengths but also one of my biggest weaknesses as well. And I think I've always been that way. I look back to when I was younger and decided I wanted to be a doctor. I was relentless in the pursuit of that.

I really, really wanted to get into medical school and follow my dreams. And, you know, now since everything's been happening, I mean, during the pandemic, you know, to be honest, I was working every hour that I was awake for a lot of it. You know, doing kind of five shifts a week plus getting up at six in the morning to do interviews and media and create because, you know, I felt real responsibility during the pandemic to be a source of really good information and a place that people can turn to for advice and guidance. And that was hard because it meant that I was burning the candle actually, and, you know, working long hours. And there was a real battle inwardly, because I know myself how important self care is. And I was doing real battle inwardly because I know in myself how important

self-care is, and I was doing my very best to do that. But also that I was being pulled by sense of responsibility and this inward natural workaholicness that's a part of my character. And finding that balance is always a challenge for me, I think. And it's something I continue to struggle with, really. I mean, I'm not an A&E doctor but I really relate to that mindset where for me during the pandemic my coping mechanism was my work so my work expanded to fill all available space and it's only relatively recently that I've realized oh I was using that as a way to feel less scared in a way like if I'm doing something then it's a distraction from what I'm feeling about something I think it's a lot of people do that I noticed that from your Instagram as well and I

noticed that a lot of people my friends people have different ways of coping with things and we're all individual people which is partly why the world's so amazing but we're all different and we react to things in different ways but certainly I was doing the same you know if you particularly look at the time when the pandemic started I was on my own in London I was away from my family a girlfriend at the time was away from me as well so I just worked and worked and worked so that I didn't worry that I didn't overthink things and a big part of the last few months and last year I think for a lot of people has been trying to find that balance between keeping busy and keeping focused but also not burning out and I've been really working on that in the last year to find that right balance of self-care of time of quiet reflection but also keeping busy

like I enjoy work I'm passionate about all the things I do I love it but I also have to think well this is great but if you burn yourself out you're not able to keep up with the commitments and the things that you want to do then that's not good either and I think that's why I talk a lot about self-care on my platform because it's actually something I'm going through like no one's perfect today I didn't go out and get fresh air I didn't actually go for a walk and I didn't actually do my exercise and then you know you go go the whole world's fall apart you reflect and go right actually tomorrow I'm gonna take more time I'm gonna go for that walk at lunch I'm gonna get my exercise in and life is like that it's a constant learning process't it? I know you talk about this on your podcast too, but how do you, as a medical professional,

cope with the emotional impact of what you were seeing every day, especially during the early days of the pandemic, when it was a very frightening unknown virus. How did you cope with that? With difficulty, I think. I think most medics would agree that we'll carry scars from the pandemic that will last a lifetime. And it's learning to live with those scars rather than trying to heal the wounds entirely. Because, you know, at the start of this pandemic, we were going into a situation where we didn't know whether we'd die and catch the virus. I didn't know when we were going in, you know, especially South East London, Lewisham, I believe we admitted the first patient. We also had some of the highest numbers and the kind of fastest growing numbers, if you like, of cases. I didn't know what I was going into. I was working in recess all day. So the area of the department

where patients are the sickest, if you like, and we didn't know what would happen. I had colleagues who ended up being admitted to the hospital, some to intensive care. Thankfully, we didn't lose anyone, but we were very close with a few people. And I would say that fear, plus obviously what we're seeing and the immense loss of life is tough because, you know, we work in A&E, you know, death is a part of my job. Death is a part of life, actually, for everyone. They talk about the certainties in life, and one of those things is death, and that's part of the process. But it's hard when you're seeing on the scale that we're seeing you know even recently you know the winter it was scary and actually at one point this winter I would say was the scariest because we were in a position where we'd run out of ventilators really pretty much I mean I saw a patient one day

and I gave the patient the last ventilator at that point which is a very scary thing to do when you start getting to the point where you know you probably heard and saw the news like a major incident being declared in London. And obviously, there's more complexities into what that really means. But for us as doctors in the front line, what that really means is that we have to make decisions based on service provision. You know, we're not in the luxury of having an infinite number of beds and ventilators. So we've put us in a position where we would have to make very difficult decisions about who got the ventilator and who didn't. And I think that is a really, really horrible place to be. As doctors, we want to help everyone. You know, we want to help, like that's why I am a doctor. And those were very, very challenging times and times that I think I'll carry for my life, I think.

I can't thank you enough for what you do for the rest of us how important is a sense of humor in these situations because I know that when you first started wearing PPE you taped a topless shot of you from Love Island is that right on your PPE so that people could recognize you yeah I did it as a bit of a tongue-in-cheek I didn't see patients with it on it was a bit of a tongue-in-cheek for social media just to make people smile really because you know people ask you know how do you have humor and stuff in working in A&E and honestly without it what would we do you know you have to have a sense of humor and try and lift the spirits of people around you have that camaraderie that teamwork because it can be really stressful a lot of the time so we had a bit of a giggle and stuff

but yeah I undoubtedly enjoy working with my colleagues and one of the time so we had a bit of a giggle and stuff but yeah I undoubtedly enjoy working with my colleagues and one of the things I would say is that obviously at the start of the pandemic everyone was locked at home actually in some sense it was a comfort for me going to A&E because I was around my family basically you know I've known these guys for years now and I feel very close with them so we have great camaraderie have a laugh and even in the darkest of times we try and make each other smile because we talked about this actually during the time we said you know if you let every patient get to you and every case made you cry or break down or you you struggled with every patient you saw you wouldn't be able to do your job effectively you've got to be able to have an element of that

barrier now i'm not saying that decompressing that being emotional or having these things affect you isn't important because it doesn't. And it's part of who we are. But also being able to have a level of making that separation is important, too. And that's what we do. We separate. We have to. Do you have therapy or do you just work this out yourself? Actually, after Love Island, I actually had therapy myself just to deal with the change I think when you talk about mental health and well-being and you know risk factors for worsening or ill health change is one of the biggest ones so we talk about transition points you talk about transitioning from primary to secondary school we talk about transitioning from school to university or work or the work life and if you look at what I was going through at the time it was a transitional

period leaving Love Island and I had to get used to it. With regards to the pandemic, I will definitely be getting therapy in time. At the moment, I still feel that we're a little bit in the bunkers. We're only in the process of exiting the battlefield at the moment. And there's that idea that you almost need to separate from the trauma before you deal with that. And everyone's different. Some people have had therapy ongoing throughout. But for me, I kind of want to feel a sense of separation and then, you know, in time. And then I will start to deal with a lot of this stuff. Because, I mean, look, you know, with my brother, I mean, I haven't had time to grieve. I mean, I've been away from my family since the last time I saw them was the end of the summer.

You know, and since then, it's been his birthday, my dad's birthday, Christmas, my birthday and my mum's birthday. So we haven't had a chance to move forward. So I think there'll be a lot of processing to come, I think, in the next 12 months or even longer. I'm so sorry for what you and your family are going through. I really am. We will, as you say, come on to that because you very generously have chosen to speak about it

as one of your failures. Before we do, I have a couple of questions for you. One is, what's the obsession with bath bombs do you know what so I've always kind of liked bath bombs there's a nurse at the hospital who's kind of like a really big sister to me and she's amazing called Amanda she's a fantastic nurse as well she really is and she said to me one day a month or so after the pandemic has started and said Alex you look tired you're working ridiculous hours like I know what you're doing behind the scenes as well you're working hard you need to like you know chill out a bit you love the bath

bombs and one day she brought me in a bath bomb and said look go home tonight you know I was finishing shift at 11 o'clock and she said look just have half an hour before we get to bed to unwind because you're wired anyway we've had a crazy shift and so I jumped in the bath and oh god this is quite nice actually I quite like this and then all of a sudden we from that we all started buying each other bath bombs and it was a way of lifting each other so we'd order different ones and bring them in and surprise each other and then from then one day I sat there and thought I'm actually going to launch my own company and I was like oh my gosh what you do because I'm that person that always has ideas I'm like right I've got a great idea you know let's do

this and so I came up with this idea about the bath bomb and months down the line I've got prescribed as born and we can't stock them fast enough so people quite like the bath bombs I need to send you some actually oh I would love one thank you I love a bath I mean honestly talking about mental health like yeah a bath is key for me but what is it about a bath bomb that you love more than say bubble bath is it the kind of sense of occasion I think it's a sense of occasion I do this whistle technique as you throw it in so it's a specific technique and anyone who follows my stories will know and people are copying it as well because actually if you do it right and you whistle correctly the bath is better so you know there's a bit of belief in that you've got

to believe in the process but it's a sense of occasion you put the bath bomb in it's the smell and you jump in and you relax I put a bit of Elizabeth Bay on the podcast you know and chill out and relax and for me you know like you said there really it's for my mental health you know if I come home wired I'm not going to go straight to sleep whereas if I get in the bath put my phone down and chill out some candles on that is wonders for me to unwind. That's a big part of my self-care. Alex, there is such a sweetness to you. There really is. It's such a gorgeous thing to witness because it's so rare in this life. And it's especially rare when you've had the kind of fame and social media presence that you have to retain that sweetness please never

change that is just adorable the second of the two questions I wanted to ask you before we get onto your failures is a more serious one but I know that you have very interesting things to say about this what for you is quote-unquote mental health what does it represent and what does it encompass I think this is a very good question because I think the word mental health is probably thrown around quite a bit and it means different things, different people. And perhaps the way I'll explain it is slightly different. I think that A, everyone has mental health. And I think that you can look at it in some way, slightly oversimplified, but in comparison to almost like a PlayStation game. So if you imagine you're playing a game and you've got your life bar

on there, your 100% life bar, and you've got your life bar on there you're 100% life bar and you've got your zero and if you hit zero you get kicked out and start the game again most people aren't at 100% all the time a lot of people most people aren't at zero either and we actually fluctuate in between that zero to 100 for different reasons some might be environmental factors some genetic sometimes it's situational what's going on there's so much complexity that goes into that but most of us will go up and down in life in between you know that zero and that hundred and a big part I think around connecting mental health with self-care and taking care of your well-being is having a routine and consistently doing the things that keep you as high up that

percentage as possible and when you're 80 making sure you keep doing it then, just as important as maybe when you're at 40%, because it's about keeping yourself there. And when that percentage drops, knowing what to do, knowing how to react, where to go, who to speak to, and how to try and get that percentage higher again. So I think mental health is all-encompassing. There's good, there's bad, and there's in-between.

That, for me, is what it is. Mental illness is a separate thing. Yeah, and that's a great point about doing it at 80 as well as doing it at 40 rather than thinking i'm i've got it sorted now and i'm fine i know you talk about this a lot just to extend the metaphor and really like squeeze it till the pipsqueak to extend it like in a way that computer game and that life bar you acquire skills as you carry on playing don't you so you require resilience the more that that bar fluctuates so tell us about resilience yeah and that's a really important point is that throughout life we learn and we develop these skills part of these skills are developed through learning to fail and learning from our failures and I always say that in life I think you learn far more from

your failures than you do your successes and when it comes down to resilience it's learning well actually if something goes wrong in my life and I drink loads of alcohol I don't sleep well and I eat terribly actually I feel worse and therefore you know next time that happens you learn from that and go well actually maybe I won't drink I'll avoid the drink if something bad's happened I'll exercise a bit more and I'll talk to people so it's learning that process and I think resilience is bringing those lessons together and learning from them it's also what we teach people and that's why I talk about in my role in youth mental health I think it's giving young people from a young age the tools they need to develop their own resilience we can't prevent

bad things happening in life and you talk very honestly elizabeth about your experiences and obstacles and things that you've faced you can't prevent them happening the pandemic what can we do to stop that happening it's not something you can control but you can control things in your sphere of influence so if we give children the tools and they understand about nutrition about exercise about sports about communication you we de-stigmatize mental health we'll give them those tools that develop that resilience and part of resilience as well and i'm very important i think we touch on this resilience doesn't mean being stoic it's not about going there's nothing wrong i'm fine or

i'm now invincible i think a big part of resilience is inward recognition it's being able to go actually i am under pressure at the moment or or something's happened, or I'm not feeling good. And part of that resilience is being able to have the strength to reach out and talk to people and get people involved to support you. So it's not about being alone or singular or stoic. It's actually about that awareness and self-awareness. So actually, you're resilient because you bring people in to support you, to get you back to yourself again. Oh, you are so speaking my language. I love that. Resilience is a form of inward recognition as well. That's brilliant. Just tell me quickly, what was it like meeting Boris Johnson? It's one of those moments in life you don't really expect. When I launched the campaign

and I put everything together online and I'd spent months speaking to experts in mental health and put together a lot of their ideas about what we need to do and I launched that campaign I never thought I'd end up sat there opposite the prime minister you know let's be honest the busiest man in the UK at the moment it was in Margaret Thatcher's old room and there's a painting of her behind his head actually while I was talking to him which was slightly off-putting it was incredible I mean it's a really good thing whatever we say about different things and I think you know the mental health has sadly been ignored for many many years and I think that issue is much deeper than I think just politics it's a cultural thing to be sat there with a prime minister in the middle of a very busy time and talking about mental health was a really

incredible thing I thought you know what if we can carry this and we can do something good with this then let's make a big change so I feel really positive about it it's not easy it was a scary day and it's been scary every day since but we'll get there what was his hair like messy I actually really wanted to bring a comb with me but I thought if I do that it's not a good start to the role is it if I bring a comb along and start tidying his hair up but he was like we need to be to the day and he said they asked him about when his haircut was booked he said I don't know about that but I'm booked in for a pint on the 12th so maybe you can see the priorities there priorities I've had my haircut today actually so I feel happy I feel happy I've got mine but for Friday just for context because you'll be listening to this in May but

we're talking in April and the first phase of lockdown appears to be over. But if your bath bomb range ever extends to hair care, you can send him some. So there we go. Good idea. Thank you so much for these failures, Alex. Your first failure is failing to get the grades for med school. So tell us about that. So I think from quite a young age, I decided I wanted to be a doctor.

I love the idea of science I love adrenaline I I like the idea of learning and I like teamwork so it's like perfect career for me really I'd watched the early versions of City Hospital and 24 Hours of A&E those in those days and this is the career for me you know I've worked so hard and actually me myself and my best friend were due to go to Liverpool to study he had a place at the dental school I'd had my place at Liverpool Medical School for context now the school I went to it was a nice school but I think it's fair to say it was not common that people went to medical school it'd been a few years and there was a lot of pressure on me I think to get those grades and everyone was very interested in seeing that I got the place and it came to the day and you know it's it's one of those things your family turned up

everyone there you know a lot of my friends they were waiting to see if I got the grades and I went in and I sat down with the deputy head and he said I'm really sorry your chemistry coursework's been dropped it's been reviewed or whatever and it's been dropped the marks and even though you got your A's in the chemistry exams it means you missed out by your A grade by two marks and in context of the 600 marks available two marks and after that the head teacher was really upset and rung the Liverpool Medical School and said listen Alex is a you know this is what he's just saying I'm not being myself she said look Alex can be a great med student he will be a brilliant doctor don't miss out on having him there because

of two marks like just trust me and they wouldn't give me the mark they wouldn't give me the place they said no so I had to watch my best friend who I've known all my life go off to Liverpool and I had to accept not having those grades and I went home that night and I sat down with my mum and she was crying you know you're upset what's upsetting you so much and she said I'm just upset because you've worked so hard and you wanted this and you really deserved it and I said mum I remember it now she sat up so I said mum don't worry this has been painful but I've learned how painful this is and I'm never going to let this happen again so I'm going to get my grades I'll reapply I'll do this flipping UK test again I'll get the interview and I'll get another place and I'll never let it

happen again and actually because of that failure I had a fantastic year I went out to South Africa to see my granddad who passed a year or so afterwards so I had a valuable time with him I'd really learned from that failure and I got my place you know at Exeter and I went to Exeter and you know what I got distinction I did really well because I learned I'm not having that taste of defeat again that was horrible and I really learned from that failure. And where does that chutzpah come from? That you've been told this, at that time, contextually quite devastating news, and your mum is crying, but you're able to find that resilience within yourself. Where does that come from? Are you just born with it?

I think it's a mixture of things I think you can develop resilience from outside factors and I think a lot of it comes from my mum I think my mum instilled in me this kind of idea I mean she used to say every night when I went to bed I used to go to my teenage years I get really annoyed but every time I went to bed she said Alex you can achieve anything you want in life as long as you put your mind to it and she said that every day and imagine that every day in your life eventually like mum stop saying that like stop saying but that was the kind of environment I grew up in and she always talked about failures and learning from mistakes and learning from that and my dad had that same kind of sense of you've got to just

accept that sometimes in life things don't go your way but the way that you judge yourself really is how you react to a situation but yeah I think some of it's internal I think I've definitely had my knockbacks a lot of knockbacks in life you know I've had a lot of luck and good luck and things as well but there have been moments and that was one of the biggest moments the thing is when I went to med school then and I was there I noticed there's people around me who maybe had went to schools that were private schools and maybe had slightly easier journeys into their place than I had you know again I'm not doing this for comparison's sake and I think everyone has their own battles but in this sense they may have had slightly easier journeys into that place but when I got

there I valued that place so much and I thought I'm going to make the most of this because I know how much pain I went through to get here and I made sure I did well and it really really helped me because you know if you think about it you when you're at medical school, each year, around 5-10% of people have to reset per year. So there's a good chance that in the five years, you're probably gonna have to reset. I didn't. And I came out with my ideal grades and ends up with my ideal job, working in King's, which actually was my dream job ever to work in King's College Hospital in London. I got that job and it was all down to that failure that me missing out on those grades taught me an invaluable lesson. And I think that's why when

I talk about instilling the tools in children, it's not about wrapping them in cotton wool, because life isn't like that. And still, you know, look what happened with my brother. I know we're going to come on to that. You know, you cannot prevent some things happening in life. Bad things happen. It's how you deal with it that really matters how did you find the social side of university when I first arrived at university I found it quite different because I you know from as you mentioned Carmarthenshire in Wales you know in a quite a rural quiet area I'm an introvert naturally and it took me time to settle in but I made a good group of friends a really solid group of friends and they were invaluable to me and you, you know, one of the other things, I think, that happened in my earlier years,

I guess in my 20s, it was defining for me, is that one of my closest friends, Freya, got leukemia from blood cancer. She was an incredible individual. I mean, really, really amazing. And actually she ran, I think, two or three charities.

She'd set up herself. She spent her summers in Africa. I mean, she was like, you know, like people in life, you're like, they're really good people. They make you feel bad. I was like, she is like a really good person. And as well, she's amazing at sport and everything. She's quite summers in Africa. I mean, she was like, you know, like people in life, you're like, they're really good people. They make you feel bad. I was like, she is like a really good person. And as well, she's amazing at sport and everything.

She's quite annoying, actually. She's really good. And anyway, we were really good friends. I would actually said to her, I'm worried you've got bruising on your arms and things. And you should check that out. And she went to the doctor and she was called in and told that she had leukemia.

She sat us down actually and said, look, this is what's happened. I need to start chemotherapy. And the type she had was very aggressive. She would have been dead within a matter of weeks if she hadn't started treatment. And from that point, she went into isolation. She was literally studying at medical school from a literal isolation hub in a hospital and spent the best part of six months in there, multiple rounds of chemo, sat end of year exams in there, had a bone marrow transplant and she came

out and she actually within months of having the transplant she then run a marathon to raise money for charity incredible person but very sadly she had a relapse of the cancer and died very quickly after being told and before she died when we sat down sorry i'm making this episode very depressing but i'm so sorry when we said when she sat down and she said to me alex i'm at the end of my life when i want to do all this stuff i'm so frustrated because i can't like do the things i want to do but she said to me live your life say yes to things put yourself in situations that are uncomfortable push yourself and enjoy your life because i can't now do that i want you to because you knew i was introverted i want you to live and live your life and that is the reason really I think that I've done a lot of the things

since including love and including this now because this is all miles out of my comfort zone really but because of what she said and what she instilled in me I think that was a big part of becoming who I am today here's to Freya what an amazing woman she was amazing yeah she was she was amazing. I'm getting chills. I really am. Thank you for sharing that. That was so beautiful. I'm very, very interested in introversion because, well, it probably won't surprise you because you're one yourself who successfully learned how to be in a world geared up for extroversion. I'm also an introvert. And so in a way, the podcast and everything that's come from it has been a completely unplanned, mind blowing thing for me, because I don't actually feel that comfortable a lot of the time broadcasting but I think that what you and I do which is different is that we

get our energy our kind of nurturing resource from connection and that's what I really value from you and I think that's what we're doing now where we and our introvert selves are able to have this moment of connection remotely we're not even seeing each other and there's something that feels very comfortable about that but how did you cope with love island I think you're right especially I think you know your comment around the world being geared up in many ways for extroverts I think that's very true and it comes down to where you draw your energy from doesn't it like I I draw energy you said, from connecting with people who are very like-minded, often other introverts as well, in smaller, quiet spaces, maybe just in smaller groups. I draw a lot of energy actually being on my own, you know, sat happily in my bath bomb filled bath, just sitting there and chilling or reading a book or something or going out for a ride or walking.

I mean, I walk so much. I'm on my own, really. You know, I'm in my own space and it helps a lot coping with everything i'd imagine i wonder what your kind of thoughts are on this but i see a lot of the things we do particularly being on tv or in elements that are really exposed as expending energy i have like as many tokens as i build up through having time in introverted space or in space of quiet and building my energy up and then I can spend these tokens on talks or being on tv but there's only so many tokens available at a time so I have to be careful with that because like otherwise you know you can easily become burnt out actually and sometimes I am exhausted sometimes if I have a busy day and I've been doing tv or whatever or

lots of radio I'm exhausted when I come home and a lot of times extroverts would actually be energised by that, but I find it tiring. I feel exactly the same. I think lockdown has given me a sense of clarity about the things that I find nourishing and the things that I don't. And I've often felt very guilty about the things that I don't find nourishing. For instance, going out in the evenings for social reasons should be really lovely, right? It should be great. And I love my friends more than anything, but I find that really draining. I've realized now that

I need to have more nights in with my Alex George bath bomb. I need to do that more. And I almost need to build that into my diary. Yeah I do the same I enjoy going out with my friends but I see them as an expenditure of those tokens again the same as you mean it's nothing against my friends I love them but it is an energy consuming process it's an important process and actually it's always a balance in life because if I didn't go out at all and didn't see my friends at all that would make me miserable and I'm sure you'd say the same so it's a balance isn't it and I think as you said the world is geared up for extroverts. So I think for introverts, you do actually have to make active choices to protect your time, your energy and make sure you're not

burning out really. So was there a safe space for introversion on reality television? Because sometimes I love a big party. And I think it's because I don't need to do the draining social performance I can sort of be on my own in a crowd and dancing to House of Pain and like I'm fine with that because no one's really demanding anything of me but in Love Island how did you cope with constantly being filmed? I don't think there was a space for introversion on Love Island, how did you cope with constantly being filmed? I don't think there was a space for introversion on Love Island. I don't think. I felt very tired and drained a lot of the time. The only space there was was when I was in bed.

I could close my eyes. I don't think there was a space for introversion because by nature of what they wanted, you want people to sit down and have conversations all day, be running around, be performing basically know for the whole duration so I was thoroughly exhausted at the end of that show were you allowed to take books in the villa no books no music I can't I just couldn't do it so no ways out really if you think of ways that I manage you know I go for walks you can't walk outside the villa and walking laps on the villa

I wouldn't count as that actually do you know what I did have one space and you know where it was because it's funny i always used to ask me about it i used to go in the swimming in the pool in the morning so i get up early in the morning i do 40 50 laps to the pool and the reason i did that is you could take your mic off you could swim you don't have to talk to anyone i was in my own space and i forget now i calculated how many laps i did like 50 laps a day for eight or nine weeks so i've done a lot of swimming and they said they asked me about it i said well actually the reason i do it is I need my space I need to have some space where I recharge so relatable but boy you used up a lot of tokens Alex I mean I salute you for it yeah I have I have but the thing is I think it's probably paid its toll a little bit now because

I think I took a week off a real week off and quite a quiet week last week because I'd burnt the candle so hard I think I was beginning to have an early potential signs of burnout so I the last couple of weeks I've actually had a real stop and reset and also I've looked at prioritizing time and thinking about how I'm spending time because you know you only have so many tokens and if you keep spending them out and you're taking from reserve tokens or reserve energy that can only last so long. I'm going to move on to your second failure now. And there is no easy way to bring this into our conversation because your second failure is that you say that you didn't spot signs of your brother struggling. So I want to just preface this whole section by saying how unbelievably sorry I and I

know everyone who is listening to this will be that you've had to go through this but please tell us why did you choose this as a failure I think when I was thinking about my failures well I think there's probably plenty more I could talk about but when I was thinking about my failures, and I think there's probably plenty more I could talk about, but when I was thinking about my failures for this podcast, I could not discuss this, I think, because it will always stay with me, I think, throughout my life as one of the things I'll feel that I failed in the biggest failure probably in my life. And it's interesting because it's not necessarily a failure that I probably could have done anything about. My brother was silent in the sense that he didn't say that he was struggling. He was definitely fed up of lockdown and he was anxious about his

exam results. He was waiting for results for his place at medical school, you know, due to go to the Southampton at the time. So understandable, he was quite anxious about that. But other than that, we really had no idea. And it was a phone call I had from my dad while I was out with some friends having some food. So this was in the summer, so we're in very difficult situations with restrictions. And, you know, my world ended that night. I mean, it was, you know, a part of me died that night. And I think you'll never get that back. I felt physical pain from the pain that I was experiencing.

It was strange. I went to places that I didn't think existed in the human mind, to be honest. And so, you know, that feeling for me forevermore that, that you know me and Cleo were 10 years and four days apart so I'm the big brother he looked up to me he wanted to go to medical school because I was there you know we dressed similar we both enjoyed our cars we were very similar people there's just age that separated us so the rest of my life I have to live in that knowledge of that and whether I could have done anything you know I here, they were back in Wales. I don't know. Would it have made any difference? I don't know.

I mean, ultimately, the only thing I could ever wish is that he'd have reached out and said, you know what, I'm struggling. Help me. And that would have given us the opportunity, I hope, to have done something. Of course, I'll live with regret. And my whole family does. My mum, my dad, my other brother, Elliot, will always live with that I think, it's impossible not to. Can I ask you what he was like? It's funny because the simple answer to that is like me I think, he was an introvert, he looked like me, he was even the same height as me by the time, he was obviously 19 at the time. at the time. He was very caring. He was very sensitive, just like I am. I'm a very sensitive individual. I think I've developed a thicker skin when I choose to, but I think underneath, I'm always that sensitive boy. And I think he is that same person as well.

When I look back on why he did what he did, I suspect the pandemic was a huge factor. Before that, he was really looking forward to the next steps in his life I think he was future planning and I suspect the pandemic the stress the worry because he was a warrior I think all of that took its toll and I think when we look at the pandemic it's not just the damage it's done in terms of COVID and things related to that it's the mental health that's been huge and suicide is obviously the sharp end of that but then there's a huge number of people that will experience ongoing difficulties because of mental health because of the pandemic themselves i mean if you look at children and young people's coalition who do a lot of the

forecasting for statistics and forecasting for what happened in terms of trends in mental health they're looking at you know 1.5 million children in the UK either having a knee or worsening mental health because of the pandemic I mean I can't even get my head around those numbers so you know clear I think was one of those people that really was affected by it but yeah for me how can you as an advocate for mental health as a doctor as an older brother how can you not feel a sense of failure so this is a really sensitive young man with so much ahead of him and it's not someone if i'm hearing you right who had frequent episodes of depression this wasn't something it was completely unexpected although he was quiet he had a good group of friends he's very active he's very

sporty very athletic there was nothing really to suggest this was coming I don't think it was very much out of the blue that's why it's such a big shock you know in fact he was supposed to come to London a few days later to spend a week with me because obviously the restrictions had changed in the summer and I was going to spend time with him it'd been so long since we had so if you imagine it's just like a phone call you just don't expect you know I it was the strangest thing to hear. I mean, when I first had the phone call, I thought he'd had a heart attack or an accident or something.

It would be the last thing I'd have expected. I'm just so sorry. That's so horrendous. It's all fun. We drove back and Elliot, my middle brother, he picked me up and we drove back, you know,

as soon as I found out the news and was five hour journey and we sat in silence, but that five hours felt like, that's why I I say, like, life before and life after is weird, because that journey felt like 10 years in that car. I can't explain it. It almost went into, like, a trance. It was very strange. It's weird. I think it's trauma, and I think psychologists talk about that, like, separation and trauma and what that does to the human brain. But it certainly changes you, and I think I have changed a bit.

And I think, I don't think I'll ever be exactly the same person as I was before. I don't think that's possible. If you have a life-changing event, how can you stay the same? Yeah, I think that's so true because life can't go on. Your life as it was ended when your brother's life ended. And you're living a new life now with the knowledge that this can happen and with the grief that you're carrying, which

will shape you forever. And in some ways it will shape you amazingly and enable you to grow in ways that you could never have imagined. And in other ways, it is the heaviest burden you will ever feel. Yeah, I talk about this idea of a black box. And I think that I've got a black box in my head that sits there. And when it happened, it was open. And I was just staring into this box the whole time. And as time goes on, you're able to close the box that sat on the kitchen table, but it's always there. And then, you know, as more time goes on, you're

able to put it on the shelf in the kitchen and maybe put some books in front of it and hide it, but it's always there. It will always be part of who you are. I say this in a certain sense, not positives, but there's certain elements of good changes that's happened within me in the sense that I now, you know, I think I value life pretty well. I also realize that life is actually quite fragile and that some things really don't matter and the things that really do matter in life. And I certainly also want to live as much as I can. You know, I think we often in today's society, in the way that we structuralize, we go to school, we learn all these things in academia to go to work, to pay a mortgage mortgage to have a family to

get older and everything it sounds very much i'm not sounding very positive sorry people but you know actually in a different sense you can look at it actually you know seize life take opportunities make the most feel less push yourself experience life you know i intend to live you know after this you know i'm really do intend to travel more spend more time with people that i care about spend less time with people that i don't care as much about and just make the most of things because you never know what's going to happen you never know what's around the corner I think how do you deal with the what-if-ness of this profound failure that you perceive it as a failure that you didn't spot signs how How do you deal with that?

I know how I think I might deal with it, but I'm very interested in how you do. I don't really know is the honest answer. And I think I'm still learning that. And I think I'll probably be learning it all my life. At the moment, I've tried to channel that energy into what I'm doing. And I think when you go back to dealing with things and we talked about it right at the start of this episode it was around working and the first thing I did was worked you know I took I think a couple of weeks off when he passed and then I went back to working unbelievable hours I mean just absolutely ridiculous hours more than daylight hours and I think that I put my energy into that and there's a balance again it goes back to as part of it's about healing,

allowing grieving to happen. And part of it's about keeping busy and keeping positive. And I always try and be positive in life. And I think that's what I'll try and do. And I feel a real role and sense of responsibility to my family. I've got a younger brother I need to look after. I've got my parents who,

if you think of the suffering I've had, imagine the suffering they went through. I mean, it's unimaginable. Even for me to compare to that, it's really hard to understand what they've gone through so caring for them is a big part of I think handling it but yeah I'd be interested to hear what you think really I mean from an outside perspective in a scenario what you think I feel and I realize that I speak from a position where I've just never had to go through what you've been through. So this, I don't know how helpful it is or not,

but I think that the way that I have dealt with traumatic periods in my life is to believe that the universe is unfolding as is intended. Now that's not to say that meaningless things have meaning. It's not to say that trauma is meant to happen. Not that at all. It's simply to release the obligation that I think humans sometimes feel to exert control over the uncontrollable. And also to realize that whatever happens in one's life, the unimaginable tragedy of losing your brother to suicide is on a level of pain I can't possibly fathom and in the fullness of time it will teach you us something so even the most painful

meaningless thing I believe in the fullness of time I will be taught something that was necessary for me to know and that's how I cope I think. I think that's sound advice I think we learn from every failure don't we and everything that happens and you know the way I see things if I can save x number of lives off the back of loss of his life and there's some comfort in that I think even now you know if you think the fact that I'm in this role which would never have happened under any other government the fact that I managed to get the Prime Minister to sit down and speak to young people in a video that was aired to everyone about mental health that's never happened before these things could potentially save lives and if we can get funding if we can make changes we can destigmatize how many lives

could we save hopefully quite a lot and I think that gives me a real sense of comfort that if I can prevent other families going through what we go through honestly when you talk about and your worst enemy I wouldn't to the worst person in the world I wouldn't wish this I wouldn't wish it on anyone it's just it's the feeling of lack of control you're talking about control when you have an argument with someone right and you have a fight with your best friend this awful fight or even if you do something really bad really really bad there's an element of repent you can actually fix most situations in life there's no fixing this that's why i really found hard there was no ability to unwind to make

a phone call to go and make amends to change anything there is no going back and i think that is the most frustrating because we all like to have control we talk about that and have an element of things being in our even if we feel that we're out of control, there is still some way and some element you can exert some kind of control in most situations. No controlling the situation. So that is what I found incredibly difficult. And as someone who was a workaholic, who was type A,

who really likes to be in control, it's just the most difficult scenario. There's no trap door out. There's no waking up from this. Yeah. No, until recently. I think it's only stopped in the last couple of months maybe a month so I wake up every morning remember you know because you go to sleep and you wake up I'd forget every day so I almost have to remember every day what happened

because it's so unbelievable your brain can't accept it I'd wake up and remember that is the I used to hate going to sleep because tomorrow I remember again oh Alex it's a bit difficult to go through that but I wouldn't wish on anyone. And if I have to carry it, then I will. And I'm strong enough to get through it. If I've got through the first few months, I'm here now. So we'll get there.

You're doing amazing. You're doing an amazing job. How are your parents? They're getting there. Well, they're getting there. By the time this episode goes out, we've got a little puppy. They're going to have a little dog,

which is going to be fantastic. It's weird life happens one of my closest friends i went to primary and secondary school we've had the dog who's ended up having some puppies and said look can you take one we've got so many puppies that are coming and this is the plan for and we said absolutely you know a dog a new life they come into the house and they bring this warmth and energy and i think that is going to be really, really good for them. And something to focus on moving forward. Again, they'll never get over it, but I want them to have a life before and a life after, but have a life after that still has meaning.

What's the puppy going to be called? Paddington. I've named him straight away. He's a brown cocker spaniel and he looks like a little Paddington. So that was his name paddington bear can i close this failure by asking you to remember something really happy about you and your brother like a happy memory that you have of him we loved our cars we absolutely loved our cars and when i bought my first kind of sports car a few years ago well flashy car but it felt

like a the roof went down so it felt like a sports car and we went out for a drive together and he was just beaming like ear to ear and really enjoying that and we went for a spin and I thought you know I just want to work hard in life and make sure that my family can enjoy and be happy and that he can experience these amazing things and it was just the most amazing moment just us out laughing playing music driving the car so I think of him in that way and I know when I go out for drives now and I enjoy my cars he would I know he'd share that with me you know he'd be smiling away say his name one more time for me clear okay so the only reason I haven't been using your lovely youngest brother's name is because I don't want to do him a disservice by mispronouncing it but you say it beautifully

yeah we joke with him and he accepted that if he came to Stampton med school he'd have to be called Lloyd which is actually his middle name but he kind of accepted that mostly you know I named him see so when I was little I was 10 years old my parents said look we need to choose a Welsh name you're Alex you're Elliot middle, and we haven't got any Welsh names and we are all Welsh. So I said, well, let's call him Clear. And there it was. What does it mean? I don't know, actually. I don't know why I called him that. A friend called Clear at school. I thought it was quite cool.

Here's to Clear, Lloyd George. Here's to Clear. That was good. That was good. Thank you. I imagine that he was super proud of you on Love Island and that brings us on to our third failure which is and I remember this so well your third failure is getting so sunburnt on Love Island yeah yeah that wasn't any fun it's real failure I was listening it's funny because I was listening to I can't remember the name right now you might remember it there's a song and that guy talks about um yes you must wear sunscreen yeah the Baz Luhrmann sunscreen sunscreen yes and it's

fantastic and I listened to that if anyone hasn't heard that listen to that because there's some fantastic life lessons and the number one thing he says is to wear sunscreen and I was thinking I was listening the other day I was like god I need and to be fair though I will say and caveat that I did wear factor 50 throughout but unfortunately I've always suffered in my life with acne and I was taking isotretinoin which is a form of treatment people know as racotane commonly for my skin and unfortunately racotane makes your skin incredibly sensitive to sunlight so while I was sat out there in 40 degrees sunlight even with factor 50 unfortunately I was very very pink in the sun but it was definitely a regret of mine and a definite failure so I wear factor 50 everywhere I go now that's why you've got such good skin because

you're just constantly wearing SPF I'm careful you know my mum actually taught me that and I think she when I was on the show she was just like oh no he needs you know what's going on it was really frustrating for me because obviously everyone outside's going oh my god this doctor's been so stupid I was like I'm literally in fact 50 and the thing was there's no shade there but if you think about the villa it's just an open area and it's like 40 degrees and let's be honest I am a very fair-skinned individual you've got people that can tan fantastically and don't have the same issue but But let's be honest, I am very fair-skinned. I didn't fear very well.

Your mum, by the way, sounds absolutely amazing. She sounds like a kind of motivational speaker wrapped up in like a really great parent. Yeah, she's brilliant. She's brilliant. I think that at one point there was a Twitter petition to get you some aloe vera. Did they help you with the after sun? They did. And I said, said look let me just sit in the shade eventually i got an agreement that's why my skin it got much better at one point because i had an agreement where i would sit in the shade they put an umbrella up and let me sit at the umbrella and i said this is ridiculous the thing was though do you know what was funny i wasn't actually that

burnt the camera made it look way way worse and secondly you get a redness when you get exposed to the sun on this medication it isn't so much burnt if that makes sense so I was like just really pink like because the skin just gets really flush it was really weird but obviously to anyone looking on the camera they're like oh my god he's burnt so badly but I was literally wearing kid sun cream I really want to come on to ask you more about Love Island but I also just want to acknowledge something that has become an elephant in the room when we talk about this program so I loved watching Love Island and I've also had to acknowledge the fact that potentially the exposure around that program has triggered mental health issues that might well have been pre-existing or in the people who've been on it and not only that but Caroline Flack the beloved former presenter is

no longer with us have those issues in any way tarnished your memory of that and do you think that there is an association I think first of first of all, it definitely does, of course, tarnish it. Because, you know, like, Karen and I didn't know her very long, but she'd definitely become a friend to me. And she actually used to message me after the show, asking me medical questions, as everyone does. Really? Like, what do I do with my ingrowing toenail? Yeah, classic stuff like that, really.

Or like, you know, what vaccine do I need for this country? Or whatever. It's just funny. She was fantastic. And Mike, of course, as well, important to mention him it's somewhat tarnished that show it's difficult because there's so many elements to this it's very complex and you know I actually sit on the board now of ITV's mental health group along with many of the charities and of course representatives from ITV and one of the things I want to look at moving forward is that we a make sure that what we're showing on TV actually is representative of real life that we're not causing body image

issues and trying to create this perfect image of what our life is and also that we're picking contestants that go on these shows that are actually able to cope with what happens afterwards because i think people think oh i go on love island it'll be really famous and rich and everything's great and i'm going to go to all these parties and people can pay me to be there and all this stuff and the reality of it isn't true most people go on love island don't become famous they don't actually have sustained careers there's not being mean at all it's just the reality and actually it's pretty stressful people knowing who you are all the time is actually quite a burden as well there's no privacy you know and i'm not sitting there going you know with a violin i've made my choices but

i think people need to make informed decisions to understand that with every good point there's a bad point and i believe in yin and yang in life entirely i believe in energy and in one direction has an opposing force and opposing energy and and i believe that the good things that come with being famous of which there are plenty there are equally as many bad things and you know if you're not in a situation mentally you know within yourself or within you know the scenario you're in to be able to cope with i don't think you should go on a show like that i think the responsibility lies with the show as well as the individual and also i would also say i'd caveat as well that regardless of people's strengths or whatever or ability to resilience or whatever we also need to make

sure the aftercare is good after these shows I think that's very important so yeah it's a difficult one I still will I watch Love Island again yes I will do I hope that we've learned some lessons from the past absolutely what was it like for your body image we've spoken there about the redness and the slight sunburn but did it go deeper than that for you as well was it difficult yeah I think particularly before the show as I said I'd have replied that it wasn't really it came out very left field for me so if you think the show started being recorded forgive me I think it was like May or something around then I found it in February so I went from being you know I was fit and healthy I was cycling and I was absolutely healthy and normal but from feeling oh my gosh like I'm not in the shape of these six-pack ripped guys to working out so hard

and like really restricting my life hugely to be in this shape and actually when I was on that show I wouldn't say I was healthy I might have had abs and whatever but I wouldn't say I was healthy you know I think it was quite damaging so much healthier now like show, I wouldn't say I was healthy. I might have had abs and whatever, but I wouldn't say I was healthy. You know, I think it was quite damaging. So much healthier now. Like, I mean, I don't have six pack now, but I can run. I can move. I'm able physically and mentally. I feel comfortable in my skin.

I think that's very important. And that is why I think that representation on the show is so important. You know, there's nothing wrong with putting people on those six packs because people are like that. But let's not put on every person to look a certain stereotypical way let's represent every person in society because i mean look people appreciate people who are real and i'm not saying that people aren't i'm just saying having people on there who are real people appreciate look who won the show when i was on there was jack yeah yes he's a good looking jack but he and he doesn't mind me saying this because i you know i know he doesn't know he's my friend

he either wasn't there with a ripped six pack you but he, and he doesn't mind me saying this because I know he doesn't. And he's my friend. He either wasn't there with a ripped six pack, you know, he wasn't there with like defined toned muscles and he won the show. So I don't think you need to be like that to be on those shows. I think we need to actively make sure we represent better.

And also the other thing that everyone always slings at Love Island is that it's just an excuse for us all to watch sex on TV. And Jack and Danny didn't have sex the entirety of the show and they won. So just like to say that the haters yeah no i don't yeah i don't i can understand the other points are very valid but yeah i don't quite quite understand so you're still in touch with jack are you in touch with anyone else from your season yeah so still chat with like laura anderson

samir and things as well i mean i have gone in a very different probably quite a odd well different route to a lot of people and my life is probably very different to a lot of people and particularly in the last year I haven't really seen anyone so less so probably than previous but that's how life is you know we all I think it's important to realize that it's something I've learned throughout my 20s now that I've just turned 30 that I think life you have friends that are there for your whole life you've got people who come and go life goes in different directions and I think just accepting that change is a part of life is an important thing things are always evolving and changing and you just have to go with the flow you're so right but I am going to ask you this question which is have you found love yet no I haven't found love

you know with everything that's happened you know my focus has been very much about the pandemic and getting through this time and particularly what's happened post. And there will be a lot of healing and things for me to do in the next period of time. I think sometimes I'm not saying I'm not open to scenarios and things happening. I probably do things very differently now. I'd rather be out of the public eye with the relationship. But I think, you know, I am very inwardly focused at the moment on that kind kind of healing and getting through the times because you went through a breakup during lockdown as well I mean you really have had an unbelievably tough pandemic yeah it's not been the most ideal I mean yeah I've been on my own for a huge amount of time so going through the kind of being separated from your partner

then having a breakup then that happening it's been a bit of a and obviously working in it as well I wouldn't say it's probably been the highlight years of my life but they've definitely been shall we say character building so yeah I mean look the way I see it if I've got through this I can get through anything you have to find some positives and the negatives and again we learn from our failures right that's the whole point so I'll carry forward these lessons and you're still so bloody young that you're going to emerge from this like the world's most eligible bachelor so I'm not worried about you at all I don't feel that young I feel I said to the start I feel like I've aged so much I mean I don't know if it's just in my head or not but I definitely I think 30 is hitting me like a brick

I think so we'll see hopefully it slows down a bit now I think you've been delivered a bath bomb of wisdom over this last year that probably makes you feel like a wise old soul but you don't look it before we bring this to a close Alex if someone is listening to this podcast now and they might be struggling and they might feel lonely or they might feel I don't know what to do with my mental health issues or my anxiety what one piece of advice would you like to give them right now well I think you know one thing I wish I could still do my brother is to tell people how you feel and reach out I know there's a lot of talk around well you know is the support there if you are reaching out but the only way to find out is doing so. And the only way that you can get better is by trying.

So please don't suffer in silence. I think particularly this pandemic has taught everyone that we all have mental health. We've all had ups and downs. I think the conversation around mental health has been more open than ever. And I will be working hard to make sure the resources and the support is even better than ever.

But please do reach out, tell a loved one. I always say, think of it in this way, speak to to someone in your family speak to someone at work if you can and speak to a health professional you know so that way you've got different circles of people who can support you and get you through this tough time but don't sit there and suffer in silence because that's one certain way I think of things not getting better speak about things reach out it's great advice and I will put relevant numbers in the show notes for those health professionals that you speak of. But Dr. Alex George, I can't tell you how much I have loved reconnecting with you, how much I have admired what you've done with your

profile, and how in awe I am of the way that you speak and the courage that you show. And I just want to thank you for being the person that you are and for coming on How To Fail. Thank you, Alex. This How To Fail Mental Health Awareness Week podcast special is sponsored by Jo Malone London. Jo Malone London is proud to shine a light on mental health today and every day. They are committed to funding all stages and aspects of mental health, focusing on awareness, prevention, support and treatment. They've created four delicious smelling charity home candles designed to stamp out stigmas one step and candle at a time.

75% of each sale of one of these candles goes directly to supporting mental health projects and inspirational charities who help individuals and families affected by mental health problems. health problems. Through their charity candle collection to date, Jo Malone London has given over £2.5 million to their 11 mental health charity partners, helping to raise awareness and stamp out taboo, providing support, empowering people to recover, to reconnect and to grow. So this Mental Health Awareness Week, why not make your home smell absolutely delightful and contribute to mental health charities by going to www.jomalone.co.uk forward slash how to fail. You can discover the Jo Malone London charity candle collection for yourself at www.jomalone.co.uk forward slash how to fail. Thank you very much to Jo Malone London. If you enjoyed this episode of How to Fail with Elizabeth Day, I would so appreciate it if you

could rate, review and subscribe. Apparently it helps other people know that we exist.