How To Fail With Elizabeth Day - BONUS EPISODE! How to Fail: Tanya Reynolds

Episode Date: September 2, 2021

Today, to mark the publication of my new novel Magpie, I bring you an EXTRA-SPECIAL TREAT in the form of the wonderful Tanya Reynolds.Tanya is a brilliant actress who plays Lily in the hit Netflix show Sex Education and was recently seen on our screens as Mrs Elton in the remake of Emma, starring Anya Taylor-Joy. She's ridiculously talented, an all-round legend and also, as my tremendous good luck would have it, the audiobook narrator for Magpie - this episode even includes an exclusive chapter.Tanya joins me to talk about her failure to get into drama school, her failure to make decisions, the life-changing art of improv and her failure to 'spend her time wisely'. Highly relatable and hilarious. Enjoy!---If this episode whetted your appetite, you can buy the rest of Magpie on audiobook hereYou can also order it in other formats here---How To Fail With Elizabeth Day is hosted by Elizabeth Day, produced by Naomi Mantin and Chris Sharp. We love hearing from you. To contact us, email [e-mail]---Social Media:Tanya Reynolds @tanyaloureynoldsElizabeth Day @elizabdayHow To Fail @howtofailpod        Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Let's go seize the night. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Visit amex.ca slash yamex. Benefits vary by card. Other conditions apply. Hello and welcome to this special bonus episode of How to Fail. I know I've just played with your minds, haven't I? Because we started the new season yesterday and this one's coming out hot on its heels. And normally a How to Fail bonus episode is mid-season or after the season ends but I like to keep you on your toes what can I say the reason this episode is special is because I have a fantastic guest and also because there is

no sponsor trail there is just me an author looking for a reader to love her and pathetically asking you if you wouldn't, ordering a copy of my new novel Magpie, which is out today. You can order it in any format, ebook, audio, or a good old fashioned copy bound paper with writing that gives you a tactile experience of turning the pages from your local bookshop. I will put a link in the show notes to where you can buy it. But now, without further ado, on with the episode and keep tuned to the very end because there is an extra special surprise for you. Thank you very much and enjoy the episode. Hello and welcome to How to Fail with Elizabeth Day,

the podcast that celebrates the things that haven't gone right. This is a podcast about learning from our mistakes and understanding that why we fail ultimately makes us stronger. Because learning how to fail in life actually means learning how to succeed better. I'm your host, author and journalist Elizabeth Day, and every week I'll be asking a new interviewee what they've learned from failure. If you, like me, are obsessed with the Netflix show Sex Education, and if you, like me, have a particular love for the character of Lily Englehart, the sci-fi sex-obsessed teenager with a penchant for alien erotica, then you will be utterly delighted to learn that my guest today is the actress who

plays her, Tanya Reynolds. Reynolds was born and raised in Hemel Hempstead. Her mother was a painter and her father a builder, and Reynolds's first experience of acting was in a school nativity. At home, she played out scenes from the film Grease in the family living room, and the stage was clearly where she wanted to be. At the age of eight, she also auditioned for the kids' version of Stars in Their Eyes as Shania Twain. Despite performing a medley of You're Still the One and Man, I Feel Like a Woman, she failed to make it onto the show. An outrage. But later, she won a fully funded scholarship to attend the Oxford School of Drama and since then has become a memorable presence on our screens.

and since then has become a memorable presence on our screens. She was Mrs Elton in the recent remake of Emma, starring opposite Anya Taylor-Joy, and is currently filming the third season of Sex Education. Her characters are, by her own admission, not usually the heroine, but more often strong, quirky, and single-mindedly self-confident. Off screen, Reynolds is a talented photographer and voracious reader, which brings us to, for me, the most exciting part of her career, which is that she's also

the audiobook narrator of my new novel Magpie, which is out today. I could not have been more excited when I learned that Tanya had said yes to lending her inimitable talents to the world of my characters. And you can listen to an exclusive extract of that audiobook at the end of this episode. For all that she can give voice to fiction, Reynolds said in a recent interview, I find small talk really hard. I just need to go straight into the deep Tanya Reynolds you've come to the right place welcome to how to fail oh thanks that was so nice it's so nice to be here I love that fact about you auditioning for stars in their eyes the kids version I'm actually amazed I can't remember ever saying that that was a really pleasant prize to hear you say that but

yeah I did Shania I haven't seen the footage sadly so I'm not gonna jump that on you. Neither have I my friends are desperate to find that audition tape desperate. I'm also especially touched you're here today because you've just told me that you have Covid so I mean obviously we're doing this remotely but I cannot believe what a trooper you are that you're still doing this interview. And I'm extremely grateful. And I've offered you the chance to back out and you're still good to go. So thank you so, so much. I'm good. I'm feeling OK. I'm feeling OK. This is one of the better days. Poor you. Tell us why you think people love Lily and love sex education so much well I think the show is

just so I don't know what is not to love about it it's just so well written the characters are all so interesting and just so well-rounded and genuinely funny it's very unique, but at the same time, it's just so relatable. And it's good for literally all ages. And obviously, like, it's really popular with teenagers, but it's really popular with everyone. People in their 60s and 70s are loving it as well, I think, because the writing's just so good. The writing's amazing, because there's a lightness of touch to it that belies the really serious, profound topics that the show covers. And I'm not sure how Laurie Nunn does it, but I'm in awe of her for doing it. Yeah, she's extraordinary. I mean, the whole, everyone is extraordinary on this job.

It's such a treat to be a part of it. And are you genuinely friends when the cameras turn off? I should say here that Shooty Gatworth, I absolutely love and adore. And he was my first ever guest at a How to Fail live show. So I have a very special bond with him. But are you guys all friends in real life too? Yeah, I mean, it's literally no one is a dickhead.

There is not a single dickhead. So rare. It really is rare. But everyone is not only lovely, but it's a group of really interesting, bright, funny people. Like, I'm genuinely a bit obsessed with pretty much everyone on the cast because everyone's just brilliant and it goes beyond loveliness they're just good people so I mean yeah everyone gets on with everyone and it's just

a little dream team really. But you were worried initially that you wouldn't get the part of Lily weren't you? Yeah bloody hell it was excruciating because when I first had the audition through, I didn't think for a second I would get it because I was 26 at the time and this was to play a 16 year old and I didn't get sent the scripts, but I got sent the, there were two scenes of Lily, one where she tries to have sex with Eric and one where she tries to have sex with Otis and I read the scenes and I thought that she was the funniest character I'd read in maybe ever and I loved it but I didn't think for a second I would get it because I just thought I was way too old and I went to the audition and I kind of wasn't nervous because I just didn't think I would get it there were no I just was like oh I'm

just gonna go and have fun because this is such a fun part. I wasn't attached to any outcome because I thought there was only one outcome. And then the first audition went really well. The casting assistant was laughing so much he had to hide his face behind his script. I was quite confused by that reaction because I'd never had that reaction in an audition before. And then I had a callback and then I had another callback and then I had another callback and I think I auditioned like four times and I had to wait for ages and it was excruciating I just didn't think I'd got it and I was offered another job at the same time for a play and I couldn't do them both and I didn't accept the play for ages because I was waiting to hear about sex education and then it got down to the wire and the play were like we need to know if you're going to do the play or are you going to wait and find out about this Netflix show which seemed so unlikely

because I hadn't heard anything and like weeks had passed and I knew that they'd started filming I thought I hadn't got it but I turned down the play because I was like no I'm gonna hold out for this Netflix show and then I found out I got it three days before I started shooting and it was just ludicrous I read so I don't know who your best friend is but they sound amazing because they gave you incredible advice because you said in this interview that I read that you were sort of spiraling and you're like oh my gosh what if they sack me what if I'm terrible at this job and then you spoke to your friend and what did your friend say to you oh yeah Ross I called him the night before my first day from the hotel and I was really panicking and I got it into my head that I was like a last resort for the role because I was cast so late and so I was obviously

my first day is going to be like another audition and if I'm shit they're just going to sack me and I just the pressure was so much in my head and my dear sweet friend Ross said in order for there to be a universe in which you are shit and they sack you there also has to be a universe in which you do a really good job and they don't sack you and you do the job and he was like you have kind of no control over whatever happens just which reality would you rather live in and I was like that's fucking genius man who's Ross is he a Buddhist monk how is he this enlightened he's so wise he's very very enlightened but just genius and I think about that a lot when I'm spiraling about various things I think well especially when it's something you don't have any control over it's like well I can worry about this

turning out really bad but it might not turn out. And why would I put myself in that reality before it's even a reality? Why don't I just try and live in a reality in my head where good things happen or, you know, which is easier said than done. It's good advice. Yeah, it's great advice. I quoted this line in the introduction where you said, I'm not a heroine and I've known that from an early age. What do you mean by that? When I was younger, when I was at school and I would audition for like school plays and stuff, I would always audition for like the lead because in my head as a child, I thought the bigger the part, the better the actor you were and the more serious you were about it. And I never got the

lead parts ever. And I always got what now are really great I don't know how I feel about the term character roles but kind of character roles I just don't seem to have like that romantic lead kind of vibe I don't know I just always get these roles that are just a bit odder which doesn't bother me at all like I really like it so it doesn't bother you now did it ever bother? Or have you always had that kind of inner self-confidence that you're like, no, this is a more interesting character? Definitely when I was younger, I would get really bummed out. I remember at school auditioning for Bugsy Malone, and I really wanted the part of Tallulah purely because she was the lead female

role, despite the fact that I couldn't sing or dance. I wanted that role because she was the lead female role despite the fact that I couldn't sing or dance I wanted that role because she was the main role for a girl and I didn't get it and I got the part of Knuckles who's one of like Fat Sam's henchmen and now I look at that role as absolute gold dust like that's such a great role but at the, I was so annoyed about it because it wasn't a big role. And it was also a boy's part. And I must have been, I don't know, 12 or something. I was a kid. I was really annoyed about it and really stroppy about it, which today obviously wouldn't happen. Now I see those roles as like, oh, they're the best ones. They're so much fun. Whereas when I was younger, it was all about getting the biggest role with the most words and it's taken a lot of learning and training and introspection

and observation to realize oh no that's not how it works actually the best roles sometimes can be the smallest ones and this is going to sound like a superficial question, but it isn't. Does it translate into how you feel about your looks? Because repeatedly, I read comments in interviews with you, which are like, oh, and you've got very unique looks. Now, you are a phenomenally beautiful woman. And conventionally so, as well as uniquely so at the same time, that you've got this extraordinary look, which can transform itself by any metric I think you're really beautiful and I find it weird then that people are like and she's just so she's got this kind of striking and I think people confuse how good you are at embodying a character with who you are and I just wonder what that does to your own sense of self as a woman big question but you say you didn't like small talk so I'm taking you at your word I appreciate it really

don't like small talk it's a weird one because I've always felt not pretty when I was younger especially I felt like I was probably quite ugly then as got older, I didn't mind that so much. I'm fine. There's nothing bizarre going on here. Honestly, I think I can look also like so many different things. I think I can look really lovely, but I can also look really not. It's the acting that you're doing. That's what's so genius about it.

What I'm getting at is you seem unpretious about how you're doing that's what's so genius about it what I'm getting at is you seem unpretious about how you're viewed and I think that that's an amazing way to be and for many women it's like the work of a lifetime to get to that point yeah I guess it's been a bit of a journey because it never bothered me how I looked when it came to acting because I just don't want to think about what I look like when I'm working but then I definitely had a moment as I think all women do where and this has been kind of recently actually where I've just gone like oh god am I really gross am I aging really badly am I you know and I suddenly became very self-conscious which I think is part and parcel

of being on telly, just having people look at you and having your photograph taken and things like that have just made me become a bit more self-conscious than I was before. Because when I was younger, yeah, I was very insecure about the way I looked, but then I just sort of got over it quite quickly. And I tried to like embrace all the things I didn't like about myself. I just tried to really embrace. And then I just wasn't really insecure about myself. But then as I've got older, the insecurities have come back just from being looked at, I think. But I think it's an ever going process.

And I'm trying to like now, especially as I'm getting older, I don't really want to be insecure about the way I look. I don't want to care. I just want to do my job. And I don't want to like, worry about the fact that people might say like, oh, she's aging. The fact that other people can think that they have any ownership over your looks and can say like, oh, she looks different this series or, oh, she's put on weight or, oh, she's lost weight or, oh, she's this. You can get wrapped up in all that. Especially if you're playing a 16, 17, 18-year-old. But can I just confirm objectively that you are barely ageing at all? You are an unbelievably young-looking, beautiful woman.

Not that we care, not that that matters. Your job is much more important. But just let me tell you that. Is that partly why, this is my seamless link you enjoy doing audiobooks because you don't have to think about what you look like oh man I love doing audiobooks because I just love to read and it's just a pretty cushy job I mean it's hard don't get me wrong but I mean just to sit and read a book and be paid for it that's lovely it's less pressure I mean I know that hard, don't get me wrong, but I mean, just to sit and read a book and be paid for it. That's lovely. It's less pressure.

I mean, I know that I am an actor and so it is my job to be looked at, but I have a lot of anxiety with being looked at. It's odd. So it is. Yeah, it's nice to just sit in a booth with a book and a lovely sound engineer and just read. sound engineer and just read. It's also so interesting and such an honour for me to be talking to you because out of anyone in my life, you've probably spent more time in my head as an author and sort of really analysing the words that I use and how you're going to bring life to them than anyone else has. I wonder, do you feel like you know me in a way now oh that's interesting I feel like I know you but for like so many reasons I mean obviously I've read your book back to back several times but from listening to this podcast for so long and reading your other books I do feel like I know you like as soon as this call started and I was

like, hey Liz. And I was like, I can't call her Liz. I don't know if that's okay. Oh, that's so lovely of you. And do you genuinely read a book several times before you narrate it? Well, I definitely read it beforehand once. So your book I read once before and then obviously when I was recording it you're just reading it once but you're obviously going back over sections a lot usually I will give myself two weeks to read it before I record it but with yours I just like trust it I just knew that I was gonna love it and that it was gonna be be really easy to read. So I left it, I don't know if it was the week of, maybe the week before the recording and I read it in three days. Oh, that makes me so happy. Three days. Also, I can't read off a screen.

I was reading it off my laptop and then I immediately went into recording it straight after. So I just felt like I knew it so well but also the second time I was recording it there were so many more things I was finding oh I loved it I loved reading it twice often you don't want to read a book twice you know but yours I just loved it the second time I was like oh god so many more easter eggs oh you're so thank you thank you for reading it I haven't heard it yet I'm super excited because I have heard you narrate other books and you're so, thank you. Thank you for reading it. I haven't heard it yet. I'm super excited because I have heard you narrate other books and you're genius at it. Let's get on to your failures. Your first failure is your failure to get into drama school. So tell us what happened

there. When I was in my last year of university, I didn't really know what to do. I obviously knew I wanted to be an actor. I'd always wanted to be an actor, but I didn't really know how to go about it. And then towards the end of my third year, I was a bit depressed and I just didn't know what to do. I'd spent three years just trying to make sure I got a first at uni and then I did and then I didn't. And then it was like, oh, OK, what do I do now? All my friends and my boyfriend at the time, everyone was applying for drama school. Because you studied theatre at university, didn't you? Yeah, I studied drama, yeah, and theatre. And I did love it, but it was quite hard to know where to go from that. And I think that

at the time, I wasn't aware of this and I wouldn't have been able to articulate it at the time. All my friends that were applying to drama school, something in me just didn't want to go, which I wouldn't have known at the time because it didn't make any sense because I wanted to be an actor. So surely I should want to go to drama school like what all my friends were applying to do. Something in me was like, I'm just not ready. I just don't want to. I just kind of want to go home. But I wasn't aware of that. So I copied all my friends. They all applied to a bunch of schools. So I just did the same. But I was doing it for the wrong reasons. I wasn't applying to drama school because I wanted to train to become a better actor. I was kind of

applying because I wanted the validation of getting in because all my friends were doing it and I also wanted to be part of that and I didn't know what else to do I applied for the wrong reasons really and so in all of my auditions I was awful because I wasn't there for the right reasons and I wasn't ready I was also I was very young yeah it was awful in all my auditions and I didn't get in anywhere and all of my friends got in somewhere which was great but it just was for me I was like the only person out of my friendship group who just kind of had nothing to go on to and all my friends were like talking about their year ahead with their masters and where they were going to live and all this training

they were going to do and I just yeah I didn't get anywhere and it was it was horrible because I took it as an absolute rejection I took it as like oh this means I'm not a good actor and it means I shouldn't act and it means that I can't be an actor and I took it really badly and so I went home to my mom and dad's and I got a job in a pub. I was really depressed about it because I just didn't know how else to do it. I didn't know how to be an actor without drama school. And I couldn't reconcile this feeling in my stomach that I just didn't want to go. I didn't know what that was. And it was just very hard to watch all of my friends go off and go to these schools that had rejected me and really hard how did your parents respond because I know it's not like you come from

a dynasty of acting what did they say were they saying maybe you should look for something else did you feel you might have to give up that dream? My parents never told me to look at anything else. Also drama school wasn't, it's not a world that any of us really understood because they're not in the industry at all. Like no one in my family is. So it wasn't a world that we really understood. It was just a case of, oh, it's fine. We'll try another way. There'll be another way in. I'm'm so glad now so glad that I didn't get in and that I kind of had that slump and I'm so glad I had those rejections because like I said I moved home and I got a job in a pub and I just kind of thought I'm not having this I'm not like I'm not taking this I'm not just like gonna stop now this isn This isn't how it's going to go. And I just spent

the year just trying to improve myself as an actor as much as I could on my own. Because in the drama school auditions, I was so bad at them. So bad because I just didn't have the confidence. Drama school auditions are really hard. Like you're often in massive groups and you have to do lots of improv. I mean, I am so so shy and at the time I had no experience with improv and I was so like just wanted to melt away into the background I didn't put myself out there I didn't push myself to the front of the room or anything I just was very forgettable and you know dull I'm like no you weren't yeah I was I was bad. So I was like, right, I'm going to learn improv because I was really bad in all the improv auditions. So I'm going to take up improv classes. And I started

doing improv, which turned out to be one of the best things that I've ever done. And then I applied to do loads of new writing nights. I got involved with like the Almeida Theatre's Young Company. I just did a lot of stuff on my own. And it was through doing little things like this that I managed to get an agent because I just wrote to a bunch of agents. I didn't even have a headshot. I just had a picture of myself like that was black and white.

And I sent it to all these agencies and most of them didn't even reply but I got you know one reply from one agent who said oh okay yeah send us a tape of you doing a monologue and then come in and meet us and then I went and met them and then they offered to represent me for six months to see how it went and then I had an agent and I did a bunch of commercials and stuff with them and some like student short films and stuff to just try and build up a show reel and then it was doing one of the student short films that I realized that I really wanted to train actually because in the

short I had to read some Shakespeare and I just didn't know how to do it and I realized I need certain tools that I don't have. I really want to train. And so I had the need to want to train, which I didn't have when I was at university, when I just wanted to train because everyone else was and because I wanted the validation of it. Whereas now I actually wanted it. And so I applied again for drama school,

but I didn't know much about the money aspect of it. Drama school is so expensive. It's ridiculous. And I just sort of applied to wherever my friends were applying and just hope for the best. And then I had to watch like my friends, some of the tuition fees were like 18,000 pounds for like a year of training. And my friends had to get out loans and their parents had to remortgage houses and they emptied their savings and all this stuff and I was so glad I didn't get in because my parents didn't have the money to do that no one I knew had that kind of money and I didn't want to take out a loan I'd kind of reconciled myself to not going to drama school at all because I just didn't think I'd be able to get the money together but then I really did my research and I found the Oxford School of Drama

was at the time the only school that offered scholarships to postgraduate students and I applied there and got in and then I got the full scholarship it was a great turn of events when I think about how devastated I was to not get in the first time and how I thought that meant that I was never going to be an actor and that I was not good at it and that my friends were good at it because they all got in and I wasn't because I didn't get in. And I just remember feeling like moving back into my mom and dad's house and just thinking, how the hell am I going to do this? Realistically, how am I going to be an actor? I don't have any connections. I haven't got into drama school. Like, what the fuck am I going to be an actor I don't have any connections I haven't got into drama school like what the fuck am I going to do and just really feeling like it was the most impossible thing in the world to then getting into a great drama school and having all of the tuition paid for and also feeling like emotionally ready for it where I wasn't a year earlier. And there must have been points within that I imagine. Did you ever feel like I know I'm hopeful and I know there's something instinctively

that's pushing me to do this but am I also deluding myself or was there just like a cast iron feeling that this was in your future? I think that I always had this cast iron certainty in my stomach that I would make a living as an actor. I just always had it in my gut and I just knew it forever from a very young age. But then that certainty has been threatened numerous times, more so as I've gotten older. And I think that was probably the first time that it was wobbly. It was getting home. It was getting home into my old bedroom at my parents' house and just going, actually, Tanya, are you going to do this? Are you really? Because how? How are we going to get there? I think people don't talk enough about the emotional resilience required in the acting

profession specifically because the amount of yourself and your emotion that you have to put into each part let alone auditions for each part and then being rejected and being told you can't take it personally but how else can you take it and the fact that you're often out of work that you have to sort of see yourself through those lean patches I mean it really does blow my mind you said there while you were telling that story that improv was profoundly important for you why is that? Yeah because I remember being at university and we had this great improv troupe and they were so funny and I used to go and watch their gigs and I really wanted to join them but I never would and my boyfriend at the

time would be like oh you should join and I would be like absolutely not I'm not funny they're all boys they're all really funny boys I couldn't going on stage with nothing prepared are you joking that is the most terrifying like I feel sick just thinking about it obviously I'm never gonna do it I'm just gonna always watch from afar and wish that I could do it and then training in it was like it just is the most liberating thing when I did my improv training there was one lesson that I had when I first did improv I did it with this company called the spontaneity shop that they teach improv for absolute beginners and the great thing about it is it's not like actors it's like I think I was one of maybe two actors in my class

like it's people from loads of different professions who just want to learn how to be better public speakers or just want to learn some more like confidence which was just a great environment to be in and I remember doing one class where we had to like open a door obviously an imaginary door and show someone a house as if we were estate agents so we had to go around this imaginary house and introduce like all the different furnishings or whatever and they could be as absurd or as regular as possible it was my turn and I was stood there with my hand on the imaginary door handle the teacher was like okay so just open the door and go and I was like okay just give me a second and I was stood there like trying to think of something to do like something to say like trying to prepare something and he was like Tanya just open the door and I was like no no I can't I don't have it I don't

have anything I don't have anything I can't open the door there's nothing in my brain and he was like just open the door just he was like there's not supposed to be anything in your brain just open the door everything in my body was rejecting that because I was like I can't possibly open this imaginary door when I have nothing in my head like it's going to was like I can't possibly open this imaginary door when I have nothing in my head like it's going to be embarrassing I'm going to be so humiliated I'll have nothing funny to say nothing interesting like it will be so boring and I'll feel crap and he was like just lead with your hand just open the fucking door and I did and it was one of the funniest scenes that I'd ever done and there was was nothing in my head. Like it was empty.

And I just trusted and just opened this door and went into this house and just started speaking. And it was such a great lesson. And if you don't have anything planned, then actually nothing can go wrong. And you can find things that you never in a million years would have planned. That's so deep yes isn't it but it's so right and I feel this with so many things you can plan and plan and plan something but it won't necessarily be as funny or beautiful or interesting as something that just comes to you in the moment. And that's just been such a life lesson for me. I mean, it's such a life lesson in failure as well, because so often we feel like failure is

because life hasn't gone according to plan. But if you don't have a plan or you rip up the plan, or I mean, I'm not talking about pensions here, but just generally generally speaking you're so right that when life forces you to rethink or to not to think and simply to trust that's where some of the best stuff lies yeah and that thing about not being afraid to make a mistake is it true this is another thing I read during my extensive research into my Tanya Reynolds PhD you um you take a red nose a red clown nose with you wherever you go to remind yourself that you're allowed to be silly and make mistakes I used to I had you know I lost my nose so I haven't done this in a while I used to because similarly with how I felt with improv thinking that I could never ever do it and then doing it and loving it and used to think that you know the thought of going on stage with nothing planned was

terrifying whereas now I find that really exciting and less stressful than going on stage with something planned I felt the same with clowning at drama school when I got to drama school and found out we had to do clowning once a week I thought that was absurd and I was like imagining like party clowns and I was like what I'm here to train to be a serious actor I don't want to like throw pies in my face and I very quickly and I mean within like one lesson found that I am a massive clown and that clowning is one of the most glorious things that you can do as a performer. Because it just taught me to play and to just let things go tits up. And that's the joy of it. We all had to wear these red noses. When you put the red nose on, it was a bit like anything goes and you can't sense yourself you

know you're just playing and it just was so freeing and both clowning and improv was such tools for me to get a hold of my self-consciousness and I'm a very self-conscious person I'm trying to be less of it but I have to remind myself sometimes and especially when I first started working and I was carrying my nose around with me if I was taking it a bit too seriously I would go into my trailer or whatever and put the nose on and just like dick around a bit to remind myself like it's playing that's all acting is because also with acting you can take it too seriously and I know I certainly do it just becomes life and death I have to be incredible in this scene otherwise

what's the point of life and I have to get this job otherwise I'm a failure and sometimes I just have to remind myself it's playing it's literally pretending to be other people and playing like just play let it be fun again I love that but you wait you've lost your nose now I've lost it yeah I'm gonna send you a new one you have to have a red nose I love that image of you just going to your trailer and putting your nose on yeah like reminding yourself it's so good because when I was on my first job it was a very very serious period drama like very dramatic so I would like be on set covered in mud with like blood stains all over me and then I would go into my trailer and put on this nose just to be like it's fine we're playing we're playing at being stabbed in the back put on the

nose and just open the door on my mattress from episode. Let's move on to your second failure, which is, in your words, a near catastrophic failure to make decisions. Oh my God, yeah. Did you agonise over deciding which failures to choose? I mean, yeah, yeah. I agonised about, I mean, I agonised about everything, about everything. My decision making is bizarre. It's devastating devastating I'm trying to get better at it because it's got to a point now where I can't be this bad at decision making anymore I'm 30 this year can you maybe I can maybe there we go that would be three weeks of me pulling my hair out. Sorry, you're 30 this year.

I'm 30 this year. I need to start being more decisive. It's ridiculous. I mean, I'm indecisive about everything, like no matter how big or small. Recently, it's come to my attention, thanks to Glennon Doyle, actually. I read that untamed book last year and it's got a lot to answer for in terms of me getting really introspective. That kind of made me realise that one of the reasons I'd been so kind of miserable, I guess, one of the reasons that accounts for a lot of my misery is that so many of my decisions I was not making for the right reasons. And it goes all the way back to me auditioning for drama school that first time like sometimes the decisions I make they won't be mine they'll be like oh I'll

do this because I feel like I should do that or that person's doing that so I'll do that or they've said I should do this so I should do that and just basically ignoring my gut for as long as I can remember and it's just got to the point now where it's just wreaking havoc on my life. And I'm trying to actually make decisions based on what I actually want deep down and not what I think I should want or what other people want. I mean, if you're thinking like this in the year that you turn 30, you are so way ahead of me because this rings such a bell with me and I think a lot of women if I can just generalize horribly probably will relate to this was raised to make decisions taking into account what other people want yes and in my case

that went to an extreme of people pleasing, which actually ended up being kind of gross, where the boyfriend I'd be with at the time would be like, what do you want to eat for lunch? I'd be like, I don't know. What do you want? Because I don't want to say something wrong. Yeah. Oh, my God. Yeah. Oh, my God. I do that 100%. And now I'm trying to really counter that. So if he's like, what do you want to eat and I'm like oh whatever you want I'd like catch myself and go and then I pick something that I want to eat and I'm like we're having that and I tried to be like more assertive because I so desperately don't want to keep doing that because I'm exactly the same people pleasing to the point of nausea yeah and I also think there's something

about being in tune with your desire like there was a patch in my life that went on for years where I couldn't have told you what I would actually want to eat yeah because I got so used to it and just from a couple of things that you've said during the course of this chat I think you've got very strong and very good intuition and I think you just need to dial down everything else and really lean into that you had a really strong intuition that you were going to get the part of Lily and that turned out to be true and you had a strong intuition that you shouldn't have gone for drama school the first time and that there was something in you telling you not to and I just think that's what it's about like that will make you more decisive yeah I think so I think it's

about trusting that I think that I've always had a real problem with trusting my own opinions to the point where I will literally I'll have an opinion or a thought about something. If I read a script, for example, and I don't like it, there's a part of my brain that's like, oh, well, it's obviously good because I don't get it. Yeah, I don't get it. So it must be good. I mean, I have exactly the same thing where I'm like, I don't think I have an opinion because I'll think I think something opinion because I'll think I think something and then I'll read or listen to someone who has the opposite point of view. I'm like, actually, no, that's right. And then I'm just in this like pickle. And also I have this

thing as well, which I'm sure you will get, where if I say something, I don't know, on social media, for instance, or I write a book and someone criticizes it and says that didn't work my default is to think they're completely right and I'm stupid and shameful yeah and it's like insane because it's exactly that thing like we're both in the business of creating things and so all opinion is going to be subjective yeah and we need to trust our own most of all yeah exactly there's no question there just like ranting no you're just you're dead right I'm with you there 100% like sometimes I'll finish reading a book and before I've even like thought about my own opinion I will google it to see what other people are thinking about it

which I've stopped doing lately because I've realised that it's nuts. But I'm the same. I mean, it's like a cliche, but it just takes one person to criticise your work for you to be or to read one bad review. And you're like, well, that's the review that's obviously correct. I'm with you there. It's really interesting when you say that about reading books because I recently judged the women's prize for fiction and I have to say that was a very good exercise for me to there was no option but to trust my judgment because each of the judges had to do their reading independently and then upload a little google spreadsheet where we put our

comments and actually it was really heartening because the books that I loved another judge who I hadn't even met before would have the same take and would love it but maybe for a slightly different reason and that was very instructive for me so I've now got better so I'm not saying I mean maybe you should judge a drama competition that's gonna be your way out. But as I say, if you're thinking about it at 30, your street's ahead of me. And the last thing I'll say on this is that actually it's a really lovely characteristic

because you care about other people. And so that's also another way of looking at it. Yeah, I guess so. Maybe too much. Yeah. I'm aware that we are running short on time which is ironic because your third failure is your failure to spend your time wisely will be in any way organized or tidy or productive like an actual grown-up is your words yeah is this something you've always had no I didn't realize how much of a mess I am really

until like the last couple of years I always thought I was a very productive person and maybe I was very productive and now I'm less productive I don't know if I'm literally less productive or if my perception of productivity has changed and I don't know if that's also something to do with the social media age and constantly digesting other people doing incredible things all the time. And when you're laying there on the sofa watching cartoons, and you're like, oh, should I be doing something else on a Thursday afternoon? It's also my partner's incredibly productive and just spends time very, very wisely.

And I think comparing myself to that has just made me feel like a big, lazy slug. But yeah, I think, again, it's from observing other people and just going, oh, everyone else is doing loads of things and I'm not doing anything. If I have an afternoon free, I know that I should do a hundred things. I should do a wash. I should reply to my emails. I should read that script. I should do that. And yet I just want to do none of it and lay down. Is that normal? Yes, it is normal. And I'm going to tell you why.

Does that stuff get done though at some point you will do it I will do it but often I will do it like when it's too late with emails I will leave them until I get a very irritated follow-up email like excuse me can you reply to this and then and then I'll reply rather than not letting it get to that stage yeah I just I don't know what it is maybe it's like a reluctance into adulthood I don't know I think it's that you're you're a creative and this is your process like watching cartoons is part of your process and your inspiration like I'm sort of joking but I'm sort of deadly serious that actually you are someone who potentially needs a kind of space where you can play and and actually I think what you've done well here because I think I am a

productive focused person but I think I've a productive focused person, but I think I've learned how to be that. And so now if I don't want to reply to an email and I feel really overwhelmed, I'm letting someone's down because I've set that perception that I am an efficient, organized person. But I have friends, dear friends who are terrible at replying to texts or email, but they've always been like that and I know that it doesn't mean that they love me less I just know that that's who they are and so I think it's wise to just let people know who you are from the off yeah that's good that's a good shout I think I need to come with a caveat like probably won't reply to your email for a good couple of weeks.

Also, probably will leave the washing up for a very long time. Yeah. I just do things when it's too late. But I think, yeah, I don't know. This is a thing that's come with age. I used to be very good. And now I'm just, I don't know. Well, I also think like turning 30 feels like it's a watershed,

even though it's not as big a deal as everyone makes it out to be. And you've been living through a global pandemic. And so potentially, maybe you have been harder on yourself because of that, because we've all spent time assessing our own productivity or lack of it and time on social media. And that's like all we've had in terms of human connection. I think that right you know even I mean even this week I mean I have COVID right now and I I spent like three days like I just couldn't get up and I felt so guilty I was like I need I should most people who would have this time off would be lying here writing their novels and all I could do was watch Modern Family on repeat. And I was eating ice lollies because that was all I could taste. Well, I couldn't really taste it, but it felt nice in my mouth. And I felt guilty

that I'd had this time. And I was like, I'm ill. I'm so ill that I can't get off the couch why am I giving myself grief over this yeah I also have a very good friend called Ross and um his nickname for me is Blitzkrieg Betty because he's like you just power on through like you don't let up on yourself and I'm the kind of person who'll be like it's fine it's just a little scratch after I emerge from a bomb crater and like get on with things and it sounds like you have an element of that where maybe the fact that you feel unproductive is just that you're putting yourself under ridiculous amount of pressure I actually can't believe that you're doing this interview with Covid and I feel really bad about that to be be honest, I do feel a bit brain foggy,

which I think has been why I've not been able to form many good sentences. So that's my excuse for my inarticulacy. Inarticulacy? You see, you've just got, you nailed the word. This is you with brain fog, but yes, you've been wonderful. You've made complete sense. I haven't noticed any brain fog whatsoever. Tanya Reynolds, you've been a joy and a delight. I'm so happy I have got to meet you in this slightly weird way where we haven't actually met,

but I feel like I know you so well. I'm so honoured that you narrated Magpie. And I'm just also incredibly flattered that you did this despite being really ill and now I prescribe you an afternoon of watching cartoons on the sofa and not doing your laundry okay thank you so much that's what I needed no thank you it's been such a pleasure I love I love this podcast and I love your book oh thank you so much and now an exclusive extract of magpie by elizabeth day read by tanya reynolds part one chapter one the house was perfect well perfect exactly, because houses never are, but at least the imperfections were livable with. The flooring, which had clearly been bought in bulk by the

developer, was a shade too light, the wood laminate a touch too smooth to pass for real. The plantation shutters were plastic and layered with thin spores of dust. Someone had made the odd decision to put a bathroom on the second floor, with doors that led out onto a roof terrace. Marissa stood on this terrace, her sandals shadowed on biscuit-coloured patio stones, and she looked down to the garden below, which had a strip of lawn lined with potted plants, the soil newly turned. She noticed the quiet, which was rare for London, especially when you were this close to a main road. When she commented on this, the woman who was showing her around nodded. Yes, it's got

a lovely sense of calm to it. It was this that ultimately persuaded her. Marissa's own childhood had been studded through with noise. In her memories, it was always the sound she remembered first. The discordant hesitations as her father attempted to play the piano. The slamming of an oven door, the jangle of an overloaded dishwasher shelf, the raised voices of her parents arguing, the shrill catawall of her newborn sisters crying. And then, when Marissa's mother had left, baby clamped to her, the house in the countryside had fallen silent. There had been no explanation. Her mother had hugged Marissa tightly before leaving, whispering into her ear that she would return for her just as soon as she had got back on her feet. Marissa can remember looking down at her mother's shoes and wondering what was wrong with them. They were a pair of penny loafers, the coin

glinting through the oxblood leather. She had tried, once, to winkle out the penny with stubby fingers, but it hadn't come loose. Looking at her mother's shoes, Marissa wanted to know why she needed time to get back on her feet when she was already on them. She wanted to know why her mother was going. Most of all, she wanted to know what was going to happen to her and why she was being left behind. She was seven. Her father had worn pyjamas and slippers for a succession of long, stuffy days, and his stubble had grown out into a patchy beard. In those sludgy, ill-defined weeks after her mother had left, Marissa tried to load the

dishwasher the way her mother had liked, rinsing off the plates and putting the knives in handle first. After a while, she grew tired of the domesticity and left the dirty crockery piled up in the sink. And then she had been sent to boarding school, and there had been a whole different set of noises to contend with. This house was the antidote to all of that she saw now. She had examined it online, zooming in to look at the grey front door and the steps leading up to it. The brick was the colour of toasted hazelnuts. The road was, in the parlance of estate agents, leafy, and in a prime catchment area for the local school, which had been rated outstanding by Ofsted. That was important, because they were going to get pregnant as soon as they moved in

together. That had been the plan, and thinking back to her discussions with Jake, she felt an unspooling of tension, as if a warm stone had been placed in the palm of her hand. Jake was her safety, her birth, her rock, her anchor. She had used all these words to describe him, albeit not to his face, as he wasn't given to shows of emotion. This was partly what had drawn her to him. He was unruffled by events, and his solidity was uncompromising. He showed her how much he loved her through the things that he did, rather than the words he said.

She knew Jake mistrusted overt displays of affection because he found them insincere. After Marissa's childhood experiences, where passion was deployed by her mother like heavy artillery in a battle with no clear end, she was relieved by Jake's undemonstrative nature. She was relieved by Jake's undemonstrative nature. When she visited the house, it felt right for them. A sanctuary of sorts, but light-filled and blank enough to furnish with their own character. The kitchen was in the basement, every possible dividing wall knocked out so that the room stretched outwards like a beach. There was a mid-century walnut table with eight spindly legged chairs and low slung lights with pale blue enamel shades over the island unit.

An industrial sized cooker that looked like it could be used to launch a rocket. A fridge buffed to a perfect metallic shine with an inbuilt water system that dispensed ice cubes when you slotted your glass into place. A vast television hung on the white wall, an inky black square with a dot of red light in the corner, as if it were a painting that had just been sold. The woman said she felt Marissa was just the right person to move into the house. Marissa smiled. These things can be so... Marissa searched for the right word. Instinctive, I guess. Instinctive, the woman nodded. Exactly. It was when the woman opened the glass doors into the garden, folding them back on themselves like origami, that the bird

flew in. It swooped in low and fast so that neither of them had a chance to stop it. Lewin. It swooped in low and fast so that neither of them had a chance to stop it. The woman ducked, shielding her head with her hand. Marissa winced. She hated birds, the flap of their wings, the sharpness of their beaks, the smallness of their dead pebble eyes. A magpie, black and white with petrol streak purple across its feathers. The bird flapped around, panicked by its sudden incarceration. It was large, almost the size of a crow. It darted right up into the corner of the ceiling,

farthest away from where they were standing. Shoo, the woman shouted, walking towards the bird, raising her arms up and down by her sides to scare it off. Shoo. I don't think, Marissa started. She had been going to say that she didn't think it was wise to scare it, but the bird shot off before she could finish the thought. The tip of its powerful wing crashed into a small, intricately painted vase on the top of the bookshelf. The vase teetered and then fell, splintering into pieces on the floor, shards of it gathering along the skirting board. Then, as if some spell had been broken, the bird seemed to understand where it was. It flew in a straight line out of the open

doors, passing so close to Marissa's face that she could feel the atomic weight of its movement in a gust of displaced breeze. It smelled mossy and slightly rotten. She imagined for a moment that she could sense the tickle of a feather, as if the magpie had grazed against her cheek in the mad flurry of flight. Good riddance, the woman shouted after it, sliding the door swiftly shut. The door slotted into place with a sucking sound, and the muted noises of faraway traffic were cut off. The woman and Marissa existed once again in the centrifugal force of their glass and concrete bubble, with the outside world of feathers and fury made instantaneously separate.

It felt peaceful, but also unnatural. I hope that didn't put you off, the woman said. No, Marissa smiled. Sorry about the vase, though. The woman waved her hand as if to show it was of no great significance. These things happen. They shook hands warmly, and Marissa told the woman she would have a think and then she would be in touch. In truth, she didn't need to think about it. Jake was happy to leave decisions like this to her. He was unfussy about where they lived, he said. He just wanted her to be happy and for there to be enough room to start a family as soon as they moved in. He saw it as her domain, and although

Marissa should have felt indignant at this retrograde parceling up of the domestic, although she should have questioned the underlying implication that home and babies were her sphere while earning the money to keep both afloat was his, she secretly liked it. On the street, she took out her phone to message him. Seen the house, love it, feels right. She did not add kisses. This was not their way. She wasn't sure if she'd hear back from him straight away as he was in meetings all day. Back to back, he had said, warning her there might be a delay and not to worry about it. Back to back, he had said, warning her there might be a delay and not to worry about it.

Jake worked for a consultancy firm in the city. Beyond that, Marissa had no clear idea of what he did, except she knew it was about making companies more streamlined and efficient, and there was a lot of travel involved, although not always to glamorous places. Recently, he had spent several weeks in Nottingham working for a pharmaceutical firm. Surprisingly good mid-century furniture shops, was all he had said. How were the books, he had asked, and she had tell him about the orders she had got that week via her website from doting parents or aunts or godmothers wanting personalised storybooks for their little darlings. Marissa had a range of seven

stories you could choose from online. There was The Sleeping Princess Story, The Dragon Slaying Prince, The Fearless Adventurer, The Naughty Jungle Monkey, and so on. You could type in the name of your child, upload a recent photograph, and provide some defining characteristics, and Marissa would illustrate each book accordingly. Her website was called Telling Tales, and when it had launched last year, it was featured in some of the major glossy magazines. The Instagram account had several thousand followers and a blue tick. Marissa enjoyed the work because it was repetitive enough not to have to think too much and yet creative enough to be stimulating it didn't make her a fortune despite what her carefully filtered Instagram tiles might have you believe and over the last few months orders

had slowed and she had struggled to pay her rent which was, when Jake suggested they move in together, she had jumped at the chance. That, and the fact she was in love with him, obviously. Whoa, Riz, where did you find him? Her friend Jazz had asked when she had first told her about Jake. Online, Marissa said. I know, I know. You don't need to say. It's a miracle. said. I know, I know, you don't need to say. It's a miracle. Jazz had been single for even longer than Marissa. They had spent lengthy evenings over consolatory glasses of Pinot Noir on Marissa's sofa, bemoaning the lack of decent men, and both of them had got a great deal of enjoyment from the cliched pose of being two women in their late 20s, drinking wine while bemoaning said lack of decent men. They had signed up to dating apps at around the same time, the ones named after imperative verbs

which were linked to pre-existing social media profiles and required Marissa to set about creating a personality for herself. There were lists of favourite films and music and food, endless questions to test compatibility over areas including religion and love and sexual predilection, polyamorous or gender-fluid or sapiosexual, which Marissa had to google to find out that it meant being turned on by intelligence, and whether you'd consider dating someone in debt and whether it was more romantic to go camping in the woods or be whisked away for a dinner in Paris. All the answers went into some mysterious algorithm that determined, down to the closest percentage, whether you were a match with Peter, the director of a graphic design company with a

nine-year-old son who meant the world to him, or Wes, a tennis coach from Crawley looking for a woman with warm eyes and a sexy smile. Marissa became numbed to the stream of men who posed shirtless with motorbikes or German shepherds, or who said they were six foot when they were actually five foot ten, or who took spooky selfies in hotel room mirrors so that the flash rebounded and illuminated the walls in dirty white like some budget horror movie. She was unmoved by Kevin, who posed with a young girl holding a teddy bear, and who had written in his potted biography, Girl is My Niece, while linking to his favourite Spotify tracks. He had Fleetwood Mac on there, like everyone else.

She messaged him anyway, and they went on a date, and it was, like all the others, disappointing. Not in a way that made it terrible, in a way that made it mediocre, and that was worse. She had texted him to say thank you for the date, and she had watched as the WhatsApp tip turned from single grey to double grey and then to double blue, the garishness of the jolt of colour pricking her eyes so that she realised she had been staring at the screen waiting for it to happen. He had read the message. She kept looking at her phone to see whether he would reply,

looking out for the telltale typing to appear. The ellipses a signal of optimistic intent, three dots suggesting continuation and open endings, but there had been nothing. After Kevin, she had told Jazz she was giving up the apps altogether. I hear you, babe, Jazz said, wincing as she recounted the evening. It's like they think I'm weird or too much or something, Marissa had said. I can see it in their eyes. You're reading too much into it, Jazz twiddled a small diamond hoop in her earlobe. Like I always say, it's maths.

Jazz had read an article online about the fact that there were fewer men than women on dating apps and she cited it frequently and when you're a black woman it's even worse she said trust me hardly anyone swipes right on me racists marissa said yeah but honestly though her face was serious and Marissa felt bad. It's everywhere. I texted Kevin. Again? Jazz looked at her. In fact, Marissa had texted Kevin several times. At first, she simply wanted to tell him he owed her an explanation, but then she had got angry and accused him of being a misogynist prick. Her last WhatsApp had simply said, fuck off. misogynist prick. Her last WhatsApp had simply said, fuck off. He had stopped reading her messages. The ticks no longer went blue, or perhaps he had blocked her. That kind of thing had happened before. Marissa nodded, taking the bottle of wine from Jazz to fill up her glass. I just wanted to draw a line under it. Make sense, Jazz said.

wanted to draw a line under it. Make sense, Jazz said. Jake had been different from the start. For one thing, he always responded to her messages. They had met at a theme party, organized by the online agency she had signed up to, which prided itself on finding your perfect match. It was a dreary, fancy dress affair, and Marissa drank too much. She had chatted briefly to him at the bar, and he had insisted she take his number. She had woken up with a fuzzy head the next day, but there was already a text from Jake on her phone when she reached for it. He messaged her consistently for about two weeks before he asked whether she had liked to meet up for a date. Instead of drinks or dinner, Jake had suggested a cafe in the middle

of the day, which Marissa liked. It meant there would be no tipsy awkwardness at the end about whether to kiss or not. It was unthreatening and uncomplicated, a simple meeting to see whether they still gelled. He was already sitting at a table by the window when she got there, a cup of coffee in front of him with a small shortbread biscuit on the window when she got there, a cup of coffee in front of him with a small short red biscuit on the saucer in the shape of a star. His blonde brown hair was short and unfussy, swept into place with a moderate amount of gel. His clothes were freshly pressed and unexceptional, a grey t-shirt with no logo, chinos worn in at the knees, a dark belt with a burnished brass buckle, a watch with a dulled silver strap. When she walked into the cafe, Marissa felt a strange

sense of peace settle just underneath her breastbone, as though a bird's wings had stopped their fluttering. Hi. She wasn't sure how to greet him, so she held out her arm to shake his hand, which he did while looking her directly in the eyes. He made no motion to lean forward and graze her cheek, and she was relieved when he sat back down on his side of the table, and she took a chair opposite him with just the right amount of distance between them. He smelled of freshly washed laundry. No cologne. His face was uncomplicated, a defined chin and boyish cheeks, kind eyes, a smattering of sandy-coloured stubble. He had looks you could imagine ageing well, and at the same time you could see instantly what sort of a child he had been.

Underneath his t-shirt was a ripple of muscle, but it was muscle that didn't like to announce itself. It was not gym-obsessive muscle, but the understated strength of a man who could, if required, be counted on to push a car whose engine had given out. In the cafe, Jake took quiet charge. He asked Marissa what she'd like to order and then conveyed this desire to the waitress as if Marissa might find it too much bother to do it herself. She liked that. She could imagine Jazz rolling her eyes at her lack of feminist outrage. Her tea arrived in a glass pot on a wooden tray with a rectangular egg timer. I don't know if you've had our tea before, the waitress said. She had a tiny gold stud on the side of her nose. Marissa shook her head. Right, okay, so you need to let it brew for three minutes

to get the full flavor. The waitress turned the egg timer upside down. Inside, the fine black sand started to trickle down. Wow, Jake said as soon as the waitress had left them to it. That's a complicated cup of tea. Marissa laughed. I'm more of an English breakfast man myself, he said. Yes, I can see that, she replied, playful but not too much. After that, the conversation came easily, passing between them fluidly like the egg timer grains. They spoke about upbringings. He was the oldest of four, with three younger sisters, he told her. He was close to his mother, raised in Gloucestershire, and still a country boy at heart. Do you go in for all those country pursuits? He laughed. I don't think I've ever heard anyone

actually say country pursuits. I mean, outside the pages of a Victorian novel, that is. He looked at her, unblinking. It's very quaint, she flushed. Don't worry, it's charming. No, not really. I've been to the odd pheasant shoot, but fox hunting is not really my thing. I quite like foxes. He caught her eye, and Marissa was left with the distinct impression that he meant to refer to her when he spoke the word. He brought up the subject of children. It was unusual for a man to mention it, even more so on a first date, and given their age difference, Marissa was 28 and Jake 11 years older. But, you know, I want to be able to play football with my kids, he said. I don't want to be the only dad at the school gates getting his hips replaced. You're not that old, Marissa said. Well.

Jake stretched back, resting one arm on the table and placing the other on the back of his chair. He had an effortless capacity to inhabit a space. She liked the way he could have been carved out of blocks of wood. The cafe was beginning to fill with the thrum of the lunchtime rush. Mothers pushing buggies and businessmen in suits and young women in glasses and cropped jeans carrying laptops in rucksacks. Jake and Marissa had to raise their voices to hear each other over the clattering of chrome chairs and hissing of the espresso machine. To be honest, I've always wanted kids young, Marissa said. I think I told you, my mum was 21 when she had me and... She let the thought drift, annoyed with herself for having said something she did not particularly want to share.

annoyed with herself for having said something she did not particularly want to share. She couldn't remember what she had told him on their first meeting, and Marissa did not want to reveal too much. Her mind ballooned with an image of her beautiful but dishevelled mother, dungaree dress unbuttoned so that her breast could slip out to feed the mewling baby, and Marissa had to make a conscious effort to remove the memory so that she could return to the conversation in the cafe with Jake. Don't go there, she told herself. Come back. You are here, right now, with this man. Do not fuck this up like you have done before.

She took a breath and smiled and fiddled with her teaspoon. She took a breath and smiled and fiddled with her teaspoon. I just think it would be great. A couple of kids, a dog, Marissa said. And as she did so, she took a risk. She leaned forward casually and grazed his wrist with the tips of her fingers. She felt a crackle of energy, a fission of some sort, as if two molecules had collided and meshed and sparked into a new thing.

Jake looked surprised. She removed her hand quickly and carried on talking as if nothing had happened, while all the time suspecting that everything had. Later, he will tell her that he knew from the moment she reached across and touched his arm that Marissa was the one. She thought the phrase sounded like something she usually put in her hand-drawn fairy tales, but it turned out to be true. If you enjoyed this episode of How to Fail with Elizabeth Day, I would so appreciate it if you could rate, review and subscribe. Apparently, it helps other people know that we exist.