How To Fail With Elizabeth Day - Celeste Barber: the FUNNIEST woman on the internet

Episode Date: April 30, 2025

My guest today has been an integral part of my feminist awakening. Celeste Barber’s instagram posts - which parody the unattainable standards of the fashion and beauty industry - are both hilarious and revolutionary. Her work has helped a generation of women to feel better about their bodies - and made her a star in the process. (Plus she’s been blocked by a few celebrities. Lol.) Barber began her account in 2015 as a jobbing actor. She now has almost 10 million followers, including Reese Witherspoon, Chelsea Handler and designer Tom Ford who ended up hiring her for a fashion campaign. We talk about imposter syndrome, ADHD, standing up to bullies and her Janet Jackson obsession. Toxic relationships, dealing with a narcissist and how to come back from ‘rock bottom’ - Elizabeth and Celeste answer YOUR questions in our subscriber series, Failing with Friends. Join our community of subscribers here: https://howtofail.supportingcast.fm/#content Have something to share of your own? I'd love to hear from you! Click here to get in touch: howtofailpod.com 🌎 Get an exclusive 15% discount on your first Saily data plans! Use code [howtofail] at checkout. Download Saily app or go to to https://saily.com/howtofail ⛵ Production & Post Production Coordinator: Eric Ryan Mix Engineer: Richie Lee Producer: Hannah Talbot Executive Producer: Carly Maile Head of Marketing: Kieran Lancini How to Fail is an Elizabeth Day and Sony Music Entertainment Production. Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts To bring your brand to life in this podcast, email [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello there. Did you know that you can hear all of the things that my guests might have failed to divulge in the main episode by joining us in our subscriber community, Failing With Friends? It's where you will hear really riveting pieces of information like Olivia Atwood's dream date location or Miranda Hart's advice on performing bodily functions in front of your partner. Just follow the link in the podcast notes and we will see you there. Welcome to How To Fail. This is the podcast where I ask my guests three times they've failed in life and what, if anything, they've learned along the way. I'm not someone who's like, oh god, I shouldn't be here.

I'm like, why hasn't this happened quicker? Why didn't, why, why not me? And now we're going to move on because I'll cry. Do you know what I feel like next Super Bowl should be Janet Jackson with you as her backup dancer? Stop! Let's manifest it. If you don't know about flyer deals on Instacart, this message is for you. Flyer deals are like strolling through your favorite store looking for deals, but you're

scrolling your phone. And maybe you're in bed. Because getting delivery doesn't mean you have to miss deals like you'd get at the store, like the one creamer that doesn't make your stomach hurt, or the pasta sauce you can't not buy when it's on sale. So download the Instacart app, shop flyers and never miss a deal on one of your favorites. Plus get delivery in as fast as 30 minutes. Instacart, we're here. Although she doesn't yet know it, my guest today has been an integral part of my feminist

awakening. I was first introduced to the work of Celeste Barber by my cousin who said she was quote, the funniest woman on the internet. And it's certainly trueeste Barber by my cousin who said she was, quote, the funniest woman on the internet. And it's certainly true that Barber's Instagram posts are utterly hilarious, but they're also quietly radical and have encouraged a generation of women to feel better about their bodies. Barber began her account in 2015 when, as a jobbing actor, she started recreating celebrity and fashion shoots, skewering unobtainable beauty standards in a series of parody posts. She now has almost 10 million followers including Reese Witherspoon, Chelsea Handler and the designer Tom Ford, who ended

up hiring her for a fashion campaign. Barbara grew up in the small coastal area of Tweedheads in Australia and caught the bug for performing in a local dance concert aged three. She trained in drama at the University of Western Sydney, later finding a talent for comedy. Since Instagram made her globally famous, Barbara has starred in Netflix dramas, written books, and toured one-woman shows across the world. Now she returns with Backup Dancer, her latest live tour, and has also found the time to set up a beauty brand, Bui, which aims to celebrate the best version of you

and continues Barbara's mission to challenge unrealistic beauty standards, instead portraying the messy, inclusive glory of real life. It is by any metric an impressive journey for someone who once had a bit part in Home and Away. I believe your career is defined by what you say no to, Barbara says, but that's also quite a smug thing for me to say because I have become quite successful. Celeste, Barbara, welcome to How to Fail. I've become quite successful. Celeste Barber, welcome

to How to Fail. I've got a little emotional. Did you? Hearing that, it's like, oh, she's done a lot. She sounds nice. She is nice. Forget that it's me. She has done a lot. And thank you for what you've done for me personally. It's really, really important what you do. And I know it's funny too, but I'm so glad

that I got a chance to say that, so thank you. I appreciate that, I really do. It means the world to me when women come up to me and say that, because you're right, it's not just funny. There's a definite meaning behind it and purpose. What are some of the things that you've said no to? Yeah, I don't remember when I wrote that because it sounds like I'm getting offered just, you know, a plethora of roles and I just keep saying no to them.

The main thing that I say no to is, I always say no to, is campaigns that make women feel shit about themselves. I have this thing when, whenever it comes, you know, across my team's desk, I always say, I don't support any products that make women feel they need to look a certain way to feel a certain way. I don't have any interest in that. And I cannot begin to tell you the amount of people that come to me to promote the most absurd things. And I'm like, you're not at all aligned with what I do. Like do you look at my Instagram account? But I absolutely not. Go away, detox tea, go away.

I don't wanna work with you. Slimming shakes, go away. I mean, I'd be too much richer if I said yes to those things, but I just have no interest in it. What made the Tom Ford campaign different? Well, when he, I mean, well, it's Tom Ford. I mean, that's enough of an answer. When he reached out, it was, I mean, he's the king and the queen of the industry, of the fashion

industry. And when they reached out to me, I instantly thought, oh, you've got a sense of humor. You get it. You get what I'm doing. So when he reached out, I shat myself. I mean, are you kidding? You know, the sound an email makes when it comes in to your inbox, that hadn't even finished that sound. And I was like, reply all and like cc'd all the girls that bullied me at school. I was like, yes, when, how, and let's make it happen. And then when we worked together, it was still to this day, one of the greatest creative experiences of my life because we fully collaborated in every sense of the word.

And him understanding me taking the piss out of the industry is an important thing. That's why I jumped on board 100%. Do you still text him? Do you have a little... We're still in contact. He's the most delicious human being. I cannot speak highly enough. Now for anyone who I don't know where they've been, but maybe they haven't seen your amazing Instagram content, I would love you to describe the process of how you go about making one of your videos and what it actually is. And there was one recently that I found hilarious and it's this

sort of beautiful fitness model doing yoga stretches in a wooden Japanese tar bar. Oh yes, in a tub. Yes, which you then parody in a hilarious way in something that looks like a freezer. It's a freezer. It's an icebox that we have in our garage. Okay. Yeah. Can you just talk us through the process of doing it and what you're trying to achieve

by doing it? I mean, it varies depending on the post. Sometimes I will just see it and within 10 minutes of seeing it, I've parodied it and I've posted it. Like it's just, it's that simple. It comes to me, it's super easy. Other times there's a lot more involved. The whole reason behind it is to make people laugh and to make us women who don't feel seen or appreciated because we aren't a size zero or because we don't fit a

particular beauty standard, it's to make us feel seen and to have a laugh and to realize that the fashion and the beauty industry can be very dangerous. And I want to come in and I have come in and make it fun again because that's all it needs to be. They're not actually breaking news, they're not curing cancer by putting a nice pair of pants on someone. It's not that deep. With social media, it's always on so you can't turn it off and it gets into your psyche at 2am when you can't breastfeed just because they won't sleep. I just wanted to cut through that, but first and foremost, by making people laugh because I think comedy humor is the greatest equalizer. You laugh and you all then come back to the same level and you then take it from there. So I have a lot to say, but I know myself I don I like being preached to and my currency is my sense of

humour. You know, I don't have the currency of looking banging at all times and that's important to me. So well put and that particular post where it's the model in the bath and then you are doing the same thing in your ice box, I think it illuminates so much of what you've just said and what makes you so brilliant to watch because it's the juxtaposition of the unobtainable with the everyday. Do you consider what you do brave? And is it annoying when people ask that? Early on, I got that a lot. It's so brave what you do. It's so brave that you're putting your size 14 body in a bikini next to a woman who's

a size zero. That is brave of you. That is empowering. I mean, I never got the empowering to start with. I got the brave to start with. Whereas the people I would parody, it would be, you know, they're so empowering to women to just, you know, own your body and get out there and I'm all for that. But then I was so, wow, that's brave of her. I don't know how you're doing that. So I have an

interesting relationship with that word because I also, I am a brave person, not just because I put this body in a thong and put it next to a bikini model, but because I've done a plethora of other things that I'm really proud of. And has everything that you've gone through in the last 10 years, has it changed your relationship with how you feel about yourself? Yeah, I think so. I'm really proud of what I've achieved. I'm really proud that I backed myself and have gotten to where I am by completely staying true to who I am. I think because it's on such a bigger level now than what I have experienced, you know,

over time, I do have to kind of still lean into that and go, no, just like, you don't just take stock, stay who you are, stay true to who you are and keep, and keep moving along. It's weird. Cause, um, I, you know, people talk about imposter syndrome. I don't have it. I really don't, because I feel as though I'm not someone who's like, Oh God, why shouldn't be here? I'm like, why hasn't this happened quicker?

Why didn't, why, why not me? Why wouldn't it be me? Why wouldn't it be me? Why wouldn't it be or whoever it is? I, so I don't know if that's a, it's kind of a weird way to look at it, but I've never kind of thought, Oh no, I, I, I don't earn this place in, in with my success. I've, I've always been like, well, yeah, come on. I'm annoyed that it didn't happen when I was 20. Well, I had to wait till I was in my late thirties, early forties to get success. I was like, come on, I'm annoyed that it didn't happen when I was 20. Well, I had to wait till I was in my late 30s, early 40s to get success.

I was like, come on, hurry up. Well, on that point, actually, let's talk about Bui, which I absolutely love the branding of it and what you've done with it, because it's very much like, we know that you're really busy, so just slap this on. And it works and it does what you need it to. And there was this brilliant advertising campaign, which was an unflattering school photo of

you and the strapline was, not everyone wants to look younger, which I thought was so brilliant. Talk to me a bit about your core values in Bowie and also the kind of empowerment of age that you feel and the fact that you did experience success slightly older on a global scale, whether you felt that, sorry, it's so many questions in one, whether you felt that success is sort of more, even better because you know yourself. Absolutely. And because I earned it. I was even with Instagram when that all started kicking off

for me. As soon as that started taking off, I instantly booked a theater space three months time to do a live show. That's amazing. Because I wanted to earn my stripes. I wanted to earn my keep. Anyone can be famous online. Anyone. You have a cat that has a limp? Great. You go to the Oscars. Like, do you know what I mean? That lady who taught us all how to fold our undies, she went to the Oscars. Anyone can be famous. I don't have any interest in that. I want to earn my keep in this industry. I love being in the entertainment industry. I love working. I want to earn the cream risers to the top, I believe. So I wanted to earn my keep. I think it's the best thing in the world that I got success later in life.

Because earning it, I wanted to earn my place. If I got this success at 20, fucking monster. I just, absolutely not. I wouldn't have known what I was doing or why I was doing it. I would have been quite bratty. It would have been fun, but it would have been shit as well. And now with Bui that I've started, it's the same thing with what I do. It's cutting through bullshit. The beauty industry has become so elitist. It's so, you need to watch a 75 minute makeup tutorial to learn how to do your mascara. And if you don't know how to contour or buy these exorbitantly priced products well then it's kind of a status thing and

I'm like no I love makeup. Makeup's really really fun. I did a makeup course when I was younger when I used to dance and I've always loved makeup. I think mainly because I have a face for makeup. I'm alright without makeup but when I put makeup on I'm banging. But I, and I wanted to create something specifically for my audience, for me, for my girls over the age of 35, because I found that majority of things in the makeup space that were targeted to women over 35 were very specifically like anti-aging serum or anti-aging cream or these new concealers to cover up those lines because don't you dare age.

And I thought, well, we are fucking aging and get work done, don't get work done, whatever. We are aging. And I want to celebrate that. And that's why I created Booey. It's five products to get you out the door and to bring out the best version of you. That's all I'm interested in is the best version of myself and the best version of my excellent audience who I love. So well put. My schedule has been so hectic recently, running around trying to keep on top of my writing

days, my podcast recordings, there are live shows coming up. It's super exciting, but that's just work. Amongst all of this, I'm conscious of making time for my husband, my wider family and my friends. And I need all the help I can get coordinating everyone's schedules to make sure we all have time to meet up. That's where the Life360 app comes in. It's a location sharing app that makes coordinating your family's daily routines and activities so much smoother. You can just open up the app to see real-time locations for everyone in your family, eliminating the stress of wondering where everyone is, and saving you from constantly asking where they are. It means I'm not messaging my husband

all the time asking where he is or how long it is until he gets home. I don't have to bother him with the extra admin. Get peace of mind knowing where everyone in your family is at any given time. Life360 keeps you connected and works whether you're on iPhone or Android. Download the app today and family-proof your family with Life360. Hey everybody, it's Hoda Kotb and I would love for you to join me for new episodes of my podcast, Making Space. Each week I'm having conversations with authors, actors, speakers, and dear friends of mine, folks who are seeking the truth, compassion and self-discovery. I promise you will leave these talks stronger and inspired to make space in your own life for growth and change. To start listening, just search Making Space wherever you get your podcasts

and follow for new episodes every Wednesday. Let's get on to your failures because your first failure is your failure to sit still, as you put it. And you mentioned your ADHD in this context. So tell me a little bit about young Celeste at school. What was that like for you? Shit. And now we're going to move on because I'll cry. No, no. Oh, I'm sorry. No, no, no. Not at all. Not at all. It was just tough. Like a lot of people who now later in life have realized that, you know, been diagnosed with ADHD, it's really just tough. Like a lot of people who now later in life have realized that, you know, been diagnosed with ADHD, it's really fucking tough. It's tough as an adult. It's tough as a kid.

And like I was diagnosed at 16. So that was in the 90s. And it was really tricky because back then, ADHD, people are like, Oh, you got ADHD? Oh, no, it was just ADD back then ADHD, people are like, oh you got ADHD? Oh no it was just ADD back then, like I used to got teased all the time because I was a lot full on, I'm loud, I'm really funny and it just seems attention seeking. So you know that's a lot for kids to handle. So it's all, it was always an insult, you know an ADD, you get ADD. And then when I got diagnosed, because there was so little known about it, so kids would tease me and be like, you're ADHD, and you're like, oh that means you're dumb, you're stupid, you're an idiot, you're attention seeking, you're a loser, you're loud. And then you get the official diagnosis in the 90s and they pretty much double down and go,

yeah, it is all those things. Symptoms of having ADHD are you're loud, you're annoying. So since the age of 16, that's just been put into my head. They're like, well, you are officially all these annoying things, so we're going to give you drugs to quieten you the fuck down." So that was really hard to kind of grapple with because I was officially told that I was all those things. Now, what a magical wonderland it is for people. So many women in their 40s are going, oh my God, I've got so many answers now because I've actually been diagnosed and people say that they find it a superpower. That is not me. I have a hate-hate relationship with it. I hate it. I hate having it. I think it holds me back. I struggle a lot with it. What do you hate about it? I can't dive in fully to an idea, a creative idea. I have so many excellent things that I want to do.

There's so many scripts I want to write, so many films I want to do. There's so many books, so many more books I want to write. I can't do it. My brain will not let me. And when I wrote my book, me. And when I wrote my book, I still feel as though I only just scraped the surface of every chapter because it's like, get it done, get it done, can't sit still, get it done. There's always something better coming. I can never just sit in something and enjoy the success of it. That infuriates me no end because I really think I've only scratched the surface of what I'm capable of but because of how my brain works. That's all I'll ever know is the surface of it. Is that partly why you think Instagram has been a really great platform for you because

you can do it, it's done, you put it out. 100%. Yeah. Yeah. Do it, it's done, put it out. Post-ghost, post-ghost, then you just, yeah. How difficult does that make working in terms of managing your energy levels? Because we're talking, you're on tour, you toured relentlessly for the last few years. And I imagine that that's very energy sapping and leads to burnout

if you're not careful. Absolutely. Touring is very tough. I find it very tough. I remember hearing Pink, you know, the singer Pink, in an interview or something. And she said, touring is, you know, it's really tough. And she said, there's a reason why you don't see many mothers on tour, because we can't fucking do it. It's too, it's too much why you don't see many mothers on tour because we can't fucking do it. It's too much. So, you know, I live on the other side of the world, but most of my touring now is,

I became pitbull, I missed it worldwide all of a sudden, fucking everywhere. And I just have to drag my kids with me because I can't be away from them. I'm on tour now for six weeks. I cannot be away from them for that long. So there's that, but then there's managing me. And I find that really hard because I love my work. I really love my work and I'm really grateful that I get to have my little chickens coming along as well. But the thing is if I stop when I'm touring, I'm fucked. Like we even got, I was saying to you,

we got to London a week ago and we've had such a beautiful time. I've only done one show, but even now, just trying to, you know, just doing a few things here and there, I'm starting to get sick. And it's that thing if I need to go like the clappers or I'll get sick. And I know that at the end of this tour, when I get home, Jamie, like my team

have blocked out the diary, nothing. I need to lie face down because if that isn't put in my diary, I won't do it. I'll be like, what else should I be doing? I can't sit still. and I find that as part of ADHD really hard because I don't let myself enjoy my success. Yes, very hard. And also so much of it is wrapped up, I imagine, in drive. It's what drives you, what motivates you, what creates the success. I don't have ADHD, but I do have experience of being bullied at school. And that's part of what my relentless drive is, is proving them wrong still.

Yeah, wow. Age 46. Wow. But I sometimes ask myself if I'll ever be at a point where I feel I've made it or it's enough or I can just rest. And do you think you will? No. Do you think you will? No. I look at it as purpose though.

Yes. Yes. I love that. Say more. I really, really do. I am like, I'm so fully on purpose doing what I'm doing. I have no interest in stopping. I have a lot of interest in managing it better, so I can do it for the next hundred years, but I don't want to stop. It makes up who I am, what I do. And now having an audience and having my ladies, it just is tenfold. It's something that it just is tenfold. It's something that energizes me. It absolutely does. I have two stepdaughters who are now 23 and 25. I've been in their lives since they were two and four, so forever. And I remember when they were in high school and I was like, all right, cool. So I'm that mom, I'm that auntie, I'm that step

mom. He's like, what are we all doing? What are we doing in life? Like what are we interested in? What do we want to do? And I remember Kai, my oldest stepdaughter, who's actually on tour with us at the moment, whole little sausage, she was maybe 15 and she just looked at me with tears and she goes, I don't know. I don't know what I want to do. She goes, you were lucky. You did. You knew what you wanted to do since the age of three. And I will never, I will always want to be able to have that. And I don't have that. So I don't know. And I'll never forget that conversation with her.

And since then I'm like, fuck, I am lucky that I knew what I wanted to do. I think it saved my life a hundred percent with all the bullshit through school and. You know, the self-hatred with the lack of dopamine and all that stuff. I think having purpose and knowing what I wanted to do has absolutely saved my life. That's very dramatic. No, it makes total sense. There was an interview that I read where your sister was quoted saying that your experience at school almost demolished your sense of self. Oh, yeah.

Which is a strong thing and very moving to hear from your own sister, I imagine. My big sister, yeah. Yeah. Do you think you had to rebuild your sense of self after school? Absolutely. Not even rebuild, just find it. I don't think I ever had a sense of self. I don't really know if you do as a kid, all arms and legs. But no, it's interesting, isn't it? Because I knew what I wanted to do, but I didn't know who I was. When you go through it when you're younger, you're kind of like, I just know it's made me really, really resilient. I'm a very resilient person.

ALICE And not only gave you resilience, I imagine, but it also gave you gave you resilience, I imagine, but it also gave you laser-like perception for bullies. And in a way, what you do is counteracting the bullying of a beauty industry that- 100%. Yeah. Absolutely. I see that in my audiences, like when I do shows and like little things, like when I do meet and greets with people, let's say I have 50 people come to a meet and greet. I reckon about 43 of those women, because you do a meet and greet, you say good day,

you say hi and it's a lovely moment and then a photo. 43 of them are like, no, I don't want to, I look horrible. I don't want to be in the photo. I was like, bitch, you paid this money. You look amazing. And they're like, no, I hate my neck. And I was like, oh my God, we have been just fucking pushed down. These women have flown seven hours to come and see me.

They've got all their girlfriends together. They've organized babysitters. They've spent way too much fucking money to come and meet me. And they don't want to get a photo because they're like no that that breaks my heart so that's also something else that gives me drive I'm like we're not doing this fuck this we're not doing this. I want to talk more about your family as it pertains to the second failure but before we move on I want to ask about that phrase that you use post and ghost so you post on Instagram and then you're off Instagram. Do you look at the comments? No, I try not to, but sometimes after a couple of wines I like to get in and

kick off. Sometimes I'm like, let's get into it. I have to say though, majority are lovely. And what about some of the celebrities that you have lampooned so effectively? Who's had a great reaction and who hasn't quite so much? No one has had a bad reaction. Everybody loves me in the industry and no one has ever said a bad word publicly about it. I'm loved far and wide. I mean that is basically true. I know you've been blocked in the past. Yes, I've been blocked. And look, that's fine. If people don't like it, I don't do it. It's don't hate the play, hate the game. And if people don't understand it or people don't have a sense of humor, again, that's okay. That's fine. But I kind of think if Cindy Crawford loves it, if Tom Ford is calling. And I also know I'm on the right side of it. I say that to my kids

a lot. If you're on the right side, you have to make sure you're on the right side of something. And I believe that I am. I think that the industry and the people that are massive in the industry, and some people who don't like what I do, that's fine. They have a multi-billion dollar industry behind them and backing them and supporting them and celebrating them. And this is part when they walk down the street. My girls don't. My ladies, my followers are over here going, I don't look like that in a bikini, but I still think that I kind of deserve nice things. And that's who I'm talking to, they're my girls. Your second failure is your failure to fit in, which we've heard I think

started at school and you also say you failed to make friends. Yeah, still. Yeah, I just have a handful of friends. That's enlightened though, that's the right way to do it. Yeah, I just have a handful of friends. I just- That's enlightened though. That's the right way to do it. Yeah. Well, it's the only kind of way I know how to do it. I like to keep it tight. It's important to me that I have people around me that are nice to me and who want the best for me because I'm a very, very grounded person too much. Like,

oh no, it should do it. Like I sometimes have to rally myself a little bit. So it's not as though, you need, I need people around me to keep my feet on the ground. I'm good. I'm a very, very generous person and I always look after people and I like to have that with me. And that's something that I've realized only in the past few years. Claire, actually my business partner with Bui, she's a brilliant example. She's so lovely to me. And I'll say something about makeup. Oh no, it doesn't matter. It's a stupid idea. And she's like, no, this is why you're brilliant.

You're so clever. We love stupid idea. And she's like, no, this is why you're brilliant. You're so clever. We love that idea. We love that idea of you putting your school photo on a wall all through major cities and poke it. That's so clever. And I, without having people like that around me, I wouldn't do much because I'm always like, no, it's probably just silly. You know, it's that self-hatred thing. Interesting. Cause you said you don't have imposter syndrome, but there's part of you that is undermining your own talent. Yeah. Oh, fuck. Do I have imposter syndrome then?

Maybe you just have an inner critic. Maybe you have an inner critic rather than... Massively. Yes. Yeah, I look at imposter syndrome of people kind of going, oh, I don't know, I don't belong here. This is crazy I mean, I don't know if that's the right interpretation of it But it's my understanding and I don't feel like that like I get asked in interviews a lot They're like, can you believe you're here? Yeah

Yeah, I mean I don't work as hard as a nurse no one does but absolutely I'm like Yeah, I why why wouldn't I be? Talk to me a bit more about failing to fit in and what that means to you and whether you feel it still. Yeah, I do still feel it's actually interesting. When I was a few days ago, Jamie and I were talking about it. Jamie's your? Jamie's my guy.

Jamie is my tour manager. Okay. Jamie's my guy. Jamie is my tour manager. There was like, I think some events and stuff that were going on. And I was said to Jamie, Oh, do we know that they were going on? Well, that's weird. And he was like, well, no, we didn't know that something was happening. And I went, Oh, and then that little girl in me is like, Oh, the cool girls were at that. And I didn't get invited. Yeah, I still am on the fringes of things." And he was like, you say no to fucking everything, everything. You tell us not to bring things to you. You say no to everything. If you wanted to go to that, they would have loved to have had you. But it's still that thing in me going, well, I'm over here doing this thing, but all the cool girls

are over there doing that and I just don't fit into it. That's all within me though, because then when I am in those situations, it's lovely. I think you're the coolest girl of all, partly because of that sense of outsidership, because that is what has given you the ability to skewer things. You could only do that from a position that actually sees the context rather than being embedded in it. Absolutely. I hold on to that even though I am in it now. My mentality is well now that I'm in, I'm going to blow it up from the inside. So I really do hold true to that.

Yes. And as part of that, I wanted to ask you about your family. So your hot husband, that's what you call him. Yes. Well, that's what the world calls him now. Yeah, that blew up. Well, you're both phenomenally hot and make a very hot couple. But I'm so interested in family units that are unconventional, partly because I'm also a stepmother, as we were chatting about before. And I'd just love you to tell us the story of your family and how you met your husband.

We've been together for 22 years, which is a really long time. And we met in a pub. I was working in a bar in Sydney, in Australia, and he walked in. And I've never ever been confident around boys or men. I've just never been like boy crazy. But something happened when I met my husband. I just saw him and I went, yep, lock it down. Like that works for me. And I just walked up to him and said,

you'll be coming home with me tonight. And he went, did you actually say that? I actually, I know. Can you fucking believe it? Wow. I just walked up to him and said it. I was 21. Yeah. Like, and I had the worst haircut of my fucking life. He still makes fun of me for it. It was when Halle Berry had that really short, when she won the Oscar. Yes. I was like, I could try that with this hair. Yeah. We have very similar hair. And you know what he said to me? He goes, later he said to me, Oh, I thought, Oh God, she must be confident because I have, I had that haircut. If you, you know, if you're going to pull off that haircut, she must be confident. It's been what a long-term relationship is when there's children involved,

stepchildren involved, long distance involved. Um, but we, we had a conversation very early on in our relationship that he knew that I'm an actor and I'm a comedian and I'm a performer and this is what I'm working toward. He knew that and he was like, I would love to like, let's make that happen and I'll have the kids. I'll do the, he's such a nurturer. So early on we had that conversation, but it's interesting now that, you know, the success is what it is. He gets such an audience of people going, God, you're so lucky to have him. And I'm like, absolutely. And they're like, you know, you're so good to her. She's so lucky to have you. And I absolutely am. But they think that he has given up his life for me. And I have so many female friends who have successful husbands.

And not once do they get that audience of going, wow, he's so lucky. And Arpi, my husband, even says that. He's like, it's weird. I'm sitting with all our groups of friends and these people say to him, God, she's so lucky to have you, what a man. And these women are there going, I've done the same thing over here with my husband, but there's no audience for it. It's so astonishing how far we've yet to go. 100%. Especially when it comes to looking at those sort of relationships. People genuinely think like I say, that he has given up so much for me. And sure he has, and I've given up for it. Like you do what you do, but it's not as though he was like, well, I did plan on, you know, flying a rocket to space three years ago, but I had to stop

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13 and and 11. Okay, so first of all, I want to ask you about being a stepparent. So your stepdaughters were two and four when they came into life, is that right? Yes. Yeah. Two and four. What do you think is the most important thing that being a stepparent has taught you? There's so many things. When you ask that, I instantly think of the girls, Kai and Sara, bang, when they were little. They're 25 and 23 now, but in my brain, they're little again. And I just think about, I was young when I got, I was 21 when we got the girl, when I got the girls. And I just think love, just you have to, whatever is going on up here with parents and co-parenting or lack there or whatever, that is all that matters. Now look, that's great in theory, but that's one thing that I have learned. We just have to make

sure that those little sausages are okay. Yeah. I think as a stepparent myself, one of the key realizations I had after many, many years was my job, my stepchildren are older, my job is actually not to parent because they have two really effective co-parents. My job is to be a support system for the parents in that situation. And that really, really helped me being a a support system to my partner and also it's a completely different situation because they don't live with us. And I think that part of my journey was about letting go of the dream of having my own children, which didn't happen for me. And there was part of me, I think that for years wanted to preempt the blendedness of our family unit. And I was just trying too hard to be parental rather than being myself. And sometimes when you decide to show up as yourself,

you do end up being parental. It's been an interesting, and it's such an interesting conversation because for obvious reasons we can't talk about it that much because it involves so many other people. So many people and so many different experiences and so many different, you know, perceptions of how it all went down and how it works. But I agree with you actually. I wanted it all to be one big happy family at all times, no matter what. And it doesn't work like that because as we just say, we're not the only ones in the situation. There are people that don't want to do that. They have different ideas for it. I think we did have very different experiences because I did have the girls a lot and it was hard. I was their next of kin. I was all of that. So it's like, I being their friend and

that's the number one rule when you're a stepparent, everywhere you read everything is like, don't parent them, just be your friend. I was like, well, they are two and four. That is impossible for me. And yeah, I think if I had my time again, I think about this a lot, it would be different. I'd do it differently. I think they are so incredibly lucky to have you as you are them. But what an amazing stepmother to have. Just someone who has redefined what it is to be a woman and made it acceptable just to be our authentic, imperfect selves and to celebrate that. You also have two sons. And I'm so intrigued to hear from you whether you perceive many differences

in terms of now that your sons are entering teenage years, the pressures societally that they face as someone who has done so much for women. It's very different from the girls to the boys for me. I think given the time that we're in in the world, I think I find it challenging to raise my boys, letting them know that they are the greatest kings that have ever lived and they're kind and they're funny and they're smart and they deserve everything and that most things in society are skewed toward them without them feeling like shit. That's hard. I'm such a feminist, my boys are feminists, I'm raising them as feminists. I find that very difficult to empower them to be the excellent rock stars that they are, but at the same time going, just so you know,

it's really fucking hard for women and men are trash. Not you, but men. No, not dad, but men are trash. No, not Poppy. Men suck. No, not Uncle Ben. Like it's that thing where you kind of, I have no filter around that sort of stuff with my kids, which I really think I should sometimes because I get myself into a bit of trouble with them. Yes. What's Arpi's take on it? We're aligned in that. We're aligned in, I mean, he'll be the one that sometimes goes, okay, mom, we get it because I'm like, and another fucking point, like another thing. Um, but no, he's absolutely the same.

He's yeah, an excellent feminist. There was this lovely point during an interview with you that I read where your boys showed up and you asked them what the word of the day was and they said consent. Consent. Do you have a word of the day routine with them? That. That's the word that we say all the time. It's actually something that I stole from Chelsea Handler. Ah, clang. Just picked that one up.

She did a hilarious thing where, no, she posted it. Oh, okay, fine. Where she was with her nephews or something and they were like, they're teenage nephews and they were sitting in a hot tub, they were all holidaying together and she was like, I'm here with my nephews, boys, what's the word of the day? And they went concerned and like they're in a hot tub going like, go away. And it made me laugh. So I, I do it with my boys. And another thing I say to them is what do drugs do?

And they go rip families apart. Do it out at dinner. I'm like, boys, what's the word of the day? And they're like, mom, I'm like, watch the word. And they're like, consent. But I, I'm a big believer in a little less conversation, a little more action. But I realized I was saying that and the boys are like, consent. And they obviously know what it is. We talked a little about it, but how to

put that in practice, it's kind of null and void unless you kind of teach them. And I was saying, well, when we see our family friends and there's young girls there, you can always just as you walk at me, like, can I hug you or can I give you a hug? I said, that's consent in practice. So well done. Your final failure, there's no easy seamless link here, is that you failed to meet Janet Jackson. No. First time we've ever had this failure on How to Fail and I salute it.

I was so close. So you were obsessed with her for years. I love her. Not past tense, present. I am obsessed. That's why I've named my show Backup Dancer. I'm obsessed with her. I went to her 1998 Velvet Rope Tour

and it changed my life. Absolutely changed my life. I was like, well, I wanna be a backup dancer. This is what I wanna do. When I danced as a kid, so I did it. And I learned all of her, about all of her backup dancers, had all their photos on my wall. She had eight backup dancers at the time, four boys, four girls. I know all

their names and knew everything. And then I would like perform that concert at home alone. And my friends. That's super impressive. Really good. I got really good at it. Cause I was like, what if I run into her? Cause when you're 15, that's how it works. You just bump into Janet Jackson. You just bump more because that's fate. And then do her entire dance routine. Full blown quarry. And then last year was in Vegas and I saw Kylie Minogue's residency in Vegas, the ultimate showgirl, that woman. And I was backstage with Kylie because that's a sentence. And Janet was there. And I shit the bed. I fucked it. Like I completely fucked it.

Like monumentally, I had the opportunity to say hello to her and I completely froze. And all I knew, and it was just me and Kylie kind of standing there. And then, you know, she walks past backstage and she looked at me, but like into, like she saw me, you know, looked into my soul and she looked at me, but like into, like she saw me, you know, like looked into my soul and she must have known because I was like, and it was just Kylie and I standing there. So it's fucking Janet Jackson. Even if you're not a massive fan, it's Janet Jackson.

And I couldn't speak the speech that I had rehearsed for the past 20 years. I didn't know how to say it. And what I started to do was just full blown, Corrie. Are you joking? I just about launched into like, give me a B and throw. And the only reason I did it is because my husband grabbed me and went, you're going to regret this. Don't, don't do it.

How far away is Janet Jackson in this? Me to you. Okay. Very close. I've got goosebumps. She kind of looked at me as well, like, yeah, like, weirdo, like, either say something or stop staring at me like that. And I just was grabbing Kylie and I just, and I literally nearly went to just start dancing and thank God my husband was like, don't, don't, don't, don't, don't,

don't, don't, don't, don't. Even Even Kylie was like don't fucking dance. I absolutely like I ruined it and then she left and I fell into a heap on the ground and I was like that was Janet Jackson and Kylie's like oh great well I'm fucking chopped liver over here. I was like done you that was Janet Jackson and then a few weeks later I went and so I flew to Chicago to see her live and my team was gonna try and talk to her team to try and make it happen. And I was like, I can't, I can't do a meet and greet now. I can't, I just, I wanna dance with her.

Like I wanna, my dream is to go into a rehearsal room with her, up the back real quietly, and then pretend like I'm at Madison Square Garden and do it, and then I'm good. I'm just, it's, it's, it, obsession isn't the word, but going back to school and how shit that was, I had zero mates and it was kind of that thing where I was like, I'll just get through this six hours of school cause then I get to go home and do my two hour Janet concert. Like I'm talking, I did costume changes in the lounge room alone.

Loved it. I absolutely loved it. It's that whole world that was, I'd created for myself. And now that I'm, you know, this level that I'm at and I'm in rooms with her, like, oh, worlds are exploding for me. And what was it about Janet specifically? Was there something about her being a woman in still a very male dominated industry and male dominated family? Absolutely. And also her dancing. So sexy. And I was never that and just so confident

and just like the thought of being on stage and that whole world that they had was like an absolute paradise for me that I'd built up in my little 15 year old head at home in my lounge room. I dimmed the lights, I went nuts. How did she feel when you saw the Super Bowl performance with Justin Timberlake? Every year that Super Bowl performance, I call that justice for Janet. That appalling. Did you see her documentary? Yes.

How she was treated after that? Unbelievable. Just in Timberlake has a lot to answer for. With her, with Brittany in general. Even if it was real, it was meant to happen or not. What happened to her after that? She was invited to the Grammys, then uninvited to the Grammys and then instead he opened the Grammys straight after it. Appalling. No, I have a lot to say about that. And every Super Bowl, I'm like, the best thing that Kendrick could have done, I mean, Kendrick was amazing. I'm well versed in Super Bowl halftime performances, by the way. I love this.

It's my absolute thing. I can rate the four, I can tell you, I love it. Kendrick should have brought her out. That would have been incredible. I think- With Serena Williams. Someone should bring her out. They should, they also, they should just let her out. That would have been incredible. I think someone should bring her out. They should, they also, they should just let her do it again. Although I reckon she's a queen or she's like, no, I'm good.

Do you know what I feel like next Superbowl should be Janet Jackson with you as her backup dancer. Stop! Let's manifest it. I don't, I'm reading a book about manifesting at the moment and I'm scared. I think we can do it. The reason I partly say that, Celeste, and I don't know how to break this to you. What? I have met and interviewed Janet Jackson.

Are you kidding? No. How long have I been here? How long have I been sitting here? I've been saving it. Oh my God, did she talk about me? She, it was all we talked about actually. It was- How was, did she dance? Did she, what did she smell like? She was heaven. It was in 2018, so we're going back a while. It was for a solo album that she was doing. I flew to New York to interview her and she was so sweet and smart and strong. And fucking cool, right?

And so cool. I felt that I could ask her anything. And the other thing that I loved was that her publicist was an older woman who was just so motherly and like lovely with me. And that's not always the case with sort of A++++ Lister. And the publicist came in, I sat opposite Janet, then she left the room and we had a really lovely chat. Oh my god. And I wish I could give you that experience. I'm so happy for you.

Thank you. Not jealous at all. Like, no jealous. I'm so sorry, because it would have meant more to you. Maybe I'm like 50-50. 50% happy, 50% jealous. Maybe like 90% jealous. Maybe.

Oh my fucking god. She was great, but that's what I want to say to you. I got a tear rolling down my face. Oh, Celeste. Celeste! I've finally broken you. I love how you're so happy. I'm so happy. I'm so happy. I my fucking God. She was great. But that's what I want to say to you. I got a tear rolling down my face. I finally broken you. I love how much ADHD bullied at school. Who cares? Janet tears. Oh my God. I've heard that I have, we have mutual friends and they're like, she's a queen.

She knows what she's doing. She doesn't fuck around. She's like, she's a Jackson. Yes. Like she knows, this is her industry. The shit that that woman has gone through. Yeah. I feel it's going to happen for you. I do, please don't be disheartened. This is just the start.

I'm not, it's fine. I'm happy for everyone's success. It's great. But just quickly, Kylie, how come you got to be backstage with Kylie? You're friends with Kylie? Yes? You're friends with Kylie. Yes, I'm friends with Kylie. Are you?

I love Kylie. Oh yeah, well she's the best, chuck out the rest and burn them. She's magic. She is so amazing. Have you seen her live? I've actually never seen her live, but I've interviewed her.

Well, you should get up and do a show for you. Last year, because I was touring America, I saw Janet Live, Kylie, and Alan a show for you. Last year, because I was touring America, I saw Janet live, Kylie and Alanis Morissette. That's just my 80s and 90s dreams just right there. My whole world exploded. And I saw Adele as well. Wow. Yeah, what a year, right? But with those, I was like, we really do, we just get better,

girls. It was amazing. You're amazing. You're just getting better. I am so thrilled I got to meet you. This is my Janet Jackson moment. Oh, really? No, it's not. I've managed to stay relatively coherent. Oh, very good. Genuinely, I'm so grateful for you, for everything that you do,

but also for you giving the time today to come on How to Fail. It means so much to me. And even better, you're staying to answer listener failures and questions on Failing with Friends. I don't want to leave. You don't have to. Please just stay. Okay, great. I'll stay. Just stay. Yeah. I'll cancel all the other guests. You can just sit there. Amazing. Is Janet coming?

Yeah. We'll get Janet. We'll get Janet. If Janet comes, I'll leave. No problem. Thank you, Silas. Thank you, darling. Oh. Please do follow How to Fail to get new episodes as they land on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcasts. Please tell all your friends. This is an Elizabeth Day and Sony Music Entertainment original podcast.

Thank you so much for listening.