How To Fail With Elizabeth Day - Dannii Minogue - ‘I hit low points where I thought: “I just can’t take this any more.”

Episode Date: May 28, 2025

In her most revealing interview to date, Dannii Minogue talks openly about the pressures of fame, the relentless comparisons with her sister, Kylie, and navigating a divorce that left her broke. It’s an extraordinary conversation with a woman who found fame as a 10-year-old in her native Australia. As a  teenager Dannii, signed a record deal and acted in Home and Away. In her early 20s her debut album went Gold in the UK, and she went on to have 9 top 10 singles. Over the course of her music career she has spent over 200 weeks in the official UK chart, sold in excess of seven million records worldwide, and scored a record-breaking 19 Number One dance singles. After a four year stint on The X Factor UK, she now hosts her own queer dating shows ‘I Kissed a Girl’ and ‘I Kissed a Boy’, on BBC3 and iPlayer. How to recover a broken heart - Elizabeth and Dannii answer YOUR questions in our subscriber series, Failing with Friends. Join our community of subscribers here: https://howtofail.supportingcast.fm/#content Have something to share of your own? I'd love to hear from you! Click here to get in touch: howtofailpod.com 🌎 Get an exclusive 15% discount on your first Saily data plans! Use code [howtofail] at checkout. Download Saily app or go to to https://saily.com/howtofail ⛵ Production & Post Production Coordinator: Eric Ryan Mix Engineer: Josh Gibbs Studio Engineer: Mathias Torres Producer: Hannah Talbot Executive Producer: Carly Maile How to Fail is an Elizabeth Day and Sony Music Entertainment Production. Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts To bring your brand to life in this podcast, email [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices 1x Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello there. Did you know that you can hear all of the things that my guests might have failed to divulge in the main episode by joining us in our subscriber community, Failing With Friends? It's where you will hear really riveting pieces of information like Olivia Atwood's dream date location or Miranda Hart's advice on performing bodily functions in front of your partner. Just follow the link in the podcast notes and we will see you there. As someone who loves a trip away, being connected to home and the rest of the world when I'm overseas is an absolute must. I mean, I need to have my daily FaceTime check-ins with my cat Huxley and, yeah, I guess catch up on work emails and stuff. Now, something that can make this all possible is Salie, a new eSIM service app

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Download the Salie app in your app store. Use code HOWTOFAIL at checkout to get 15% off your first purchase. Welcome to How to Fail, the podcast where every week I ask a new guest about three times they failed and what they might have learnt along the way. I've thought about packing it in many times. You fail at having good judgement, you've failed at marriage, I've failed at being able to financially support myself. It was just, it was one thing on top of the other.

My guest today has spent four decades in the public eye. Born and raised in Melbourne, the youngest of three children, she became obsessed with the idea of performing after seeing the movie Grease. By ten, she had joined the cast of the Australian TV show Young Talent Time. As a teenager, she signed a record deal and acted on Home and Away. In her early 20s, her debut album went gold in the UK. She went on to have nine top ten singles, including Jump to the Beat and This Is It. Over the course of her music career, she spent over 200 weeks on the official UK chart, sold in excess of seven million records worldwide, and scored a record-breaking 19 number one dance singles.

She was also one of the first bona fide pop stars to perform at London's GAY nightclub, and after a four-year stint as a judge on The X Factor UK, she now hosts her own queer dating shows, I Kissed A Boy and I Kissed A Girl, both on BBC3 and iPlayer. She is, of course, Dani Minogue, a woman The Guardian dubbed Queen of the Gays for her years of LGBTQIA-plus allyship. When she performed jointly with her older sister Kylie at Sydney's Mardi Gras in 2023, The Independent called it the equivalent of a solar eclipse for Aussies. Asked in a recent interview with Diva magazine what makes a good ally, Minogue replied, listening is the start. Let somebody tell their story.

Dani Minogue, welcome to How to Fail. Hi. It's so wild to be here. I'm so happy to have you here, queen of the gays. I'm not sure about that, but I'll take it. I wanted to end on that quote because listening is so important, also for what I do. I think that to be a true and genuine listener, you have to start from a place of no judgment. I wonder whether part of your ability to listen and show up as an ally comes from knowing what it is to be judged yourself?

I guess so. But I'm also just very interested in the people and their stories. There's a lot of fun, a lot of camp, a lot of craziness, a lot of things I'm just really attracted to. But then there are parts where I feel like we could all be an ally and create a space where some heartbreak and hurt could be relieved. Yes. And that's why I Kissed A Boy, which is just coming back for its new season, is so important because it is so camp and frothy and fun and brilliant. But there's this- I know you love reality. You know I love it. Yes. And it was such a perfect fusion of all the reality TV I love, because there is also this

really profound undercurrent, because we are aware as viewers how far the journey has come and how far there is yet to go, and also so much of the personal experiences that those contestants have been through to get there. What's it like for you being the host? It's a joy and an honor. It honestly is. There's so many of my friends that would literally push me down the stairs to be able to do this.

So it's great. And just to enjoy celebrating these people, which I feel hasn't happened enough on TV. So I felt like there was distinct lack of these people being celebrated or having a chance to explore or pursue love. I'd seen so many dating shows for so many different other people. And my friends had always said how representation on television is so important to be seen and how different their lives would have been if they'd seen themselves on TV growing up. It's also revolutionary. And I wonder if there's part of you that has always felt that instinct for rebellion, would we call it that?

I'm not afraid to stand up when it's needed. I'm not afraid to say something and that's just always how I felt. Performing at GAY years ago, being the first performer and the last one to close their original venue was an act of rebellion to everybody in the industry who had said, don't do that, it's gonna be damaging to your career. And my career was all I had.

I wasn't in a relationship, I'm on the other side of the world for my career was all I had. I wasn't in a relationship. I'm on the other side of the world for my career. But I just thought, I know who I am and that's how I've always stepped forward. Just because somebody says something about you, it doesn't mean it's true. Performing at GAY was going to… I was warned that it would have a very bad effect on my career because things would be said by journalists or inferred that I wouldn't be able to come back from because it was a different landscape of journalism back then and there was no social media, no right of reply. And you couldn't ever say that what a journalist had said was wrong. You could say

it wasn't true and nobody would listen to you, but you weren't allowed to say anything about a journalist or a publication. So it was like you were really backed into a corner. But DIY is a place that I would like to hang out with people that I want to hang out with, listening to music that we all want to listen to and dance to. It was about this celebration and being yourself. What we say through I Kissed a Boy and I Kissed a Girl is be who you want to be and love who you want to love. We've said that since season one. It's at the start of every show and we say it to the cast on and off camera and it's the most important thing, but that's definitely been the theme that's run through my life.

Yes, and because we're living through such a dark and challenging time now for the queer community, especially trans women and men, do you feel that it's an increasingly important part of your purpose in a way to do this show and to keep showing up in the ways that you do? There's a lot of focus on things that are bad, hard, and frightening. And I think there needs to be a lot more space for celebration, for fun, for joy, and for love. I always think, what can I possibly do? I'm just one person. What could I do that can be helpful great answer. It is so important. It's a joy to watch for all of those reasons and more. Now, you are one of those very generous

guests who has not just given me three failures, you've given me, I think, five and a half. Well, I thought you could choose your favourite. It's so sweet and generous of you. And actually, one of the things that you said to me was you put it as one of your failures, but I beg to differ, failing to be interesting on how to fail. I do listen to your podcast and the guests are incredible. You're incredible, your amount of research and the conversations flow. And then I had I had all these flutters of nerves like, what if I don't fail hard enough or good enough or I'm not interesting enough?

Well, I can tell how much thought you've put into your failures. Before we get on- I am a nerd. I love that. Nerd game recognizes nerd game. Yes. Research sticky notes, labels, the whole thing. Before we get onto your failures, I just want to ask you a bit about that point you made

about knowing yourself. Knowing yourself first being the most important thing really, so that you can identify the truth of who you are as opposed to what people might be saying about you. Where did that come from? Did that come from your parents and your upbringing? My mum was always really adamant that we speak up if there was something that wasn't right. I think that's been really great for me in life. And especially as a girl, I was sometimes in situations where you're told to be nice or be quiet and I wouldn't. That was something that has really given me strength. And I think the rest is through experience. Your first failure is failing to be a bimbo.

Yeah. There is a specific context to this. Yeah. Tell us about it. So I auditioned for Home and Away and I was given this scene of a character, Marilyn, who's become such a big part of the show. Emily Simons ended up playing Marilyn and I cannot imagine anyone else playing Marilyn. I failed so hard.

I couldn't even convince myself, I couldn't act and so then I was thinking I'm such a shit actor. But when I stepped back, I felt like it just wasn't right, it wasn't meant to be. I went away thinking, I've messed it up so badly. I have failed. I probably won't ever get a chance to audition again. And they came back to me and they said, we would like to write a character for you. And it was very interesting to me at the time because of what I was coming out of, being on a family show,

everything was squeaky clean and all smiles. And it was that place, that TV show that people turned on to escape everything. And it was just about joy. Then I was given this character, Emma Jackson, who would just say the most horrible things, throw things at people, get into fights. I had no idea how to have a physical fight with someone,

but I loved it all. It was just like coming out of this family show and just being the bad girl. So the show that you're referring to pre Home and Away is the Young Talent Time, which is Australia's equivalent of the Mickey Mouse Club, would you put it like that? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So do you think the people who auditioned you for Home and Away saw something in you

that you didn't see in yourself or did you know that that? I just think we all walked away and thought that was terrible. And then somebody must have got creative and thought, I know how we can really make an impact here. Because within Australia, if we take this girl, nobody will have ever seen her like this. I was 17. I'd never lived away from home and you've been to Australia. So I moved from Melbourne to Sydney.

I had to get my driver's license, a car, an apartment and work out how to get to work on two different locations with the Gregory's, which is an A to Z. Because there were no navigation tools or anything. And you were living on your own? It was wild. I lived with another girl because my parents were like, you're not going to Sydney at 17 and living on your own. And the schedule was brutal. Like leaving home at six o'clock in the morning, getting home at nine, ten at night and then learning more scripts. I read somewhere that you can't really remember a time before you were famous. Is that right?

So I was famous all around Australia at 10 because I'd stepped into this show. I'd done other work before then. So from seven to 10, I'd worked. There were only around eight kids on the show at one time and you stayed on the show for six years. There were only, I think, four channels back then. There was nothing else and it was the biggest Saturday night show. So it was the equivalent of what X Factor was or a Dancing with the Stars, you know, like something so super huge. And so once you stepped into that, everyone knew who you were and you're famous. It's weird. Fame was obviously different then. No social media. Thank God. And we didn't have paparazzi in Australia, so I could walk to school even

though I was like on this biggest TV show. Did you enjoy it then? Did you enjoy being well known? I had great interactions with people. We got lots of fan mail and I still love the fan mail and I would reply. Now social media, you might DM someone or respond to something, but it was this beautiful interaction with people and I've always enjoyed that. I felt the camera like a very friendly place, like I could just look down into it. And from the fan mail, I could picture who was at the other side of that. Do you still feel the camera is a friendly place?

Yeah. Yes. side of that. Do you still feel the Amazon Music app for free or go to amazon.com slash ad free podcasts. That's amazon.com slash ad free podcasts to catch up on the latest episodes without the ads. Your second failure, we're fast forwarding somewhat in terms of years and chronology, but your second failure is failed marriage. You and I both, by the way, also a divorcee, but very grateful for that fact. I'm a big believer that relationships aren't failures simply because they end, because they teach you something. I'm so interested to hear about your experience of your failed marriage. Now, I don't think it's a failure, but at the time that it ended,

my world was very dark and bleak and I just couldn't get over how wrong I'd got this. That I was a bad judge of character. Probably a couple of years after that was when I was really well aware of most people saw that coming and I didn't. So I was 23. I'd obviously lived a big full life and I'd met a lot of people and I thought I'm pretty good at judging people, but love sweeps you off your feet and it's an incredible feeling. And I really got swept away and did not see what it actually was. It should have just been something that was fun. But when to get married for me meant everything because my parents have had this long, full, happy marriage and that's what I wanted and that's what I thought I was going to get.

You met your ex-husband on the set of Home and Away. Yeah. He was hunky and charming and always a big energy walking into a room and made me feel fantastic until he didn't. I hadn't realized this, but he was also someone who was incredibly well connected with the sort of Australian elite politically. Yes, his father was prime minister. Yeah. Yeah. But I knew him as an actor on Home and Away. So I didn't meet him in that world. I wasn't exposed to that world. I'm still not. It's not she thought that I was wanting to be part of that

world, whatever it was that I was going to take, take, take from them. And it was the furthest thing from the truth and not what I wanted at all. So she made it very clear that I was not to be around and she didn't want me a part of anything. Yet Julian wanted me to be his wife and I knew that their relationship, there was a lot had gone on and he loved and adored her, but they were not close in many ways. So it was a wild time. I mean, it was a lot to take on and that's how swept off my feet I was and thought that it could still work. And so what did go wrong from your perspective? KATE Julian wanted to go to America and work. My work

was in London and so I helped him set up in New York. He got on a soap opera there and I committed to traveling back and forth because we were married. And each time I came back, there was just something not right. Things I saw in the apartment, how I felt, there were all people around that I didn't know and he was just very, very distant until the point that he called it off. But in the meantime, we'd run through all my money. And I still don't know if that's sort of what made him just say, all right, I'm out of here. I'm onto something else. I honestly don't know. He has never explained to me. But he knew what situation I was in. So he was financially on his feet, earning all of his money, keeping his money, and I was paying for everything. So I was not only personally absolutely broken hearted, but I was broke. I had no money in the bank. My family helped me out. And then that was my job to heal my heart, to find some confidence in myself, not being

so stupid at choosing people around me that were not there to support me and trying to get financially secure again. And being on the other side of the world from my family, that was really super hard. So they were taking phone calls from me and it was just bleak. I was crying all the time, just absolutely devastated. But I can say now, I think we're two very different people. It wasn't right. I wish I had have seen that. So I will take responsibility for my part of that. I really wish I had seen that. sounds so devastating, especially because you're still only in your mid-20s at this stage, I'm guessing. Yeah.

And I completely relate to that feeling of, oh, do I not have good judgment? It's awful. Yeah, you fail at having good judgment. You've failed at marriage. I've failed at being able to financially support myself. It was just, it was one thing on top of the other. And you were in London then pursuing your music career, is that right? Аnна С. Yeah. Аnна С. Okay. Аnна С. And TV, like I was doing. Аnна С. And how long were you married for?

Аnна С. It was like a year and a half together and then it's a while after that before it's actually finalized legally. Yeah. So it wasn't long. We were both young, but we'd both lived big lives. So I think we thought we knew what we were doing. At least I can say that for me. Yes. Do you think it was harder for you to forgive him or to forgive yourself? Harder to forgive myself because I feel like I not only embarrass myself, but I embarrass my family as well. And now they had to look after me and that's not how I want our relationship to be. I want us to support each other, but not have to look after me and pick up the pieces. And I knew how hard that was for my parents being on the other side of the world.

Yes. And how's that part healed now? Do you feel more self-compassion and less humiliation? Yeah, I feel like it gave me the tools. It gives you a toolbox. I don't want to be that person that makes those mistakes. I will really try to look out for those things. Yes. Did it make it harder for you to trust future romantic partners? Oh, yeah. Ditto. I mean, I, post-divorce, had to go through a few like, tough ones before finally learning the lesson. Yeah, it takes some time, but it's nice to be able to look back now. I'm with a gorgeous partner and I absolutely love him.

And how difficult was it for you to become financially stable again? Was it for you to become financially stable again? Well, I was lucky because my family loaned me money until I got back on my feet. The hard thing for me was that I'd worked for so many years already. I should have been at that position where I could pick and choose stuff. Now I couldn't with anything. So that was difficult, but I'm one of the lucky ones that I was able to have family that could help me out until I could get back on my feet. I know your parents are really private, so I don't want to be intrusive, but I'd love

to know a little bit more about them and how they are as parents. Having created this extraordinary family of Minoges, who are they and how are they? They're very shy. They don't like media or spotlight. My brother's the same. They're very supportive and very grounding. I think we're very honest with each other and whether you call on each other's support every day, but knowing it's there is such a huge thing. Do they think it's quite weird that you and your sister are global superstars? global superstars? They, I think, probably initially tried to talk us out of it. And we're very scared of it, and rightly so. It's a lot.

And I think what we didn't see, because we were so young, is that it affects the whole family, especially what I did. When Kylie really started working neighbors, she was that bit older. When I started, I was so young and we didn't have any of the support like the American kids in Mickey Mouse Club had. We didn't have people looking after us to drive us to school. We didn't have people looking after us to help us to school. We didn't have people looking after us to help us with our homework. That was all on our parents. So my parents with three kids and our workload was five days a week at rehearsals after school and then all day Saturday from like nine till nine. That's a lot. Yeah. I think of it now as, as a mom

of one son and I'm driving him to all of his basketball stuff. And I just think, I don't even know where you, when you cooked meals or did that because we were always like in a car traveling to some rehearsal that we had to do. But they did it. Even if they didn't understand it, they did it. They did it. They're, they're so supportive. Yeah. Have you ever run into your ex-husband or his family since divorcing?

No, I haven't. No, we've never had a conversation about it. Would you like to? a conversation about it. ALICE Would you like to? JANET I don't know how helpful it would be because I don't trust how truthful what I hear will be. Maybe it is, but I've done the work on myself and I'm in a place where I'm happy and I just don't know how helpful it would be. Yeah. It's so interesting, isn't it? Because I look back on my first marriage with my ex-husband and it feels like it belongs to a totally different lifetime.

Different person. Yes. Yes. I'm so grateful that that's not me anymore. Yes. And I guess you need that experience to move on to what, you know, who you're going to become. Yes. It's an important experience, but tough. Yeah. So normally at this stage, I would say your final failure, but it's not with you

because of such a generous guest, but it's a big one. And I'm so, so grateful that you're going to talk about it. And as you put it, it's failing at living up to expectations, specifically where your sister is concerned or where the media perception of your relationship with your sister is concerned. So please tell us about this and from your perspective and why you chose to talk about it. Enough time has passed and the times have changed. So like I was saying before, you could never complain about anything back in the day and things that were written that weren't true and nobody would listen to you if you said that it wasn't true or that it was stressing you out or hurting you. There were no conversations about mental health

stressing you out or hurting you. There were no conversations about mental health and there was certainly, if you were in entertainment, you couldn't say anything about it because you're lucky to do what you do and why are you complaining about that. But times have changed now. I think with social media, everybody's a part of this because everything you do gets commented on. So it was definitely hard. I moved to London in 1991. Kylie was so famous here from Neighbours to all of her music with PWL. We were watching news articles back in Australia and it was like The Beatles. It was like these cars surrounded by screaming fans and it was wild. And she would come home and we would be like, oh my gosh,, what's London like? And it just was absolutely crazy. And I moved over. Obviously, the audience knew me in England as Kylie's sister, sure, and coming from a soap opera,

so didn't know that I've spent my whole life singing and dancing on a TV show in Australia. So there was comparisons to my sister, very unfavorable for me. And there was so many comments pitting us against each other because that's what was done back then. You'd pit women against women because it sold newspapers. And then there were so many comments that were just like, you've started singing because your sister sings. And it didn't matter how many times I answered this question saying, no, I've actually done and people didn't even want to hear the answer. So it was tough coming from this childhood of being celebrated for who I was, to being in teenage years, because I was 19 when I came over,

and trying to be comfortable with myself and my body and what lots of kids talk about on social media now. But the headlines were absolutely brutal. But if I looked at what I was doing, it was like I'm living this exciting life. I'm in London. I'm doing what I want to do and I feel like if we're not comparing these sisters, I'm having a pretty successful career. And I don't know where it's going to go from here, but every day I had to wake up to all of these comments. And I definitely

know now that if I hadn't been as strong as I was, it would have been very bad. In what way? I just, I hit low points where I just thought I can't take this anymore. It's just horrible. It's just so horrible, the comments. And I felt like I couldn't say anything and I was just so trapped. Part of me wanted to run back to Australia, but the other part of me didn't. I loved being in London. This is where I wanted to be. I never saw that things would ever change. It was just so many things back then. It was like you never saw women who were older releasing music and celebrated in film and TV.

So it was definitely an age where you knew you were going to be discarded. That was probably around 30. People talked about being 30 like your life is going to end if you are in entertainment. And so I felt like if I run away from this now, I don't have that much longer. This is my time to do this. Wow. Yeah. And you mentioned that waking up every single day to the comments and the headlines, you said in your email to me that it wasn't just about the comparison with music, it was also body comparisons too. And for anyone who didn't live through them, it's quite difficult to convey what

the 90s were like for women, let alone women in the public eye who have been compared to their sister. Yeah. So, magazines controlled what beauty was and that there was just a handful of models who were on magazines who are beautiful women. But nobody was celebrated if you were different from that. So there was that and then in the music industry there was a tight control on what artists would release music. You have to look like a pop star. And very, very nasty comparisons to two girls who were sisters who were born with very different body shapes. We've always just been different. My sister having a better career and being the exact shape of what is beauty and what can be on magazines and what

everyone can talk about as being beautiful and I'm not. And it's pretty full on when you're young and you're just being told this over and over and over again. And I just had to get up in the morning and say, am I happy with myself? If all of that wasn't there, if all that noise wasn't there, am I happy with myself? And the answer was always yes. But years later it really shook me. Once I'd got through kind of an awkward late teenage stage of my body changing shape. Then I was into being an adult, my weight had stabilized and my work was keeping my body in

this very tone shape because I was dancing and performing and doing gigs all the time. I was really nervous at photo shoots. They're the only cameras I've ever been scared of was still photography. Because I thought they can see into my eyes of how scared I am. I look at these photos now, there's not an inch of fat on me and I would be constantly asking,

but do I look fat in this? Is this okay? That angle, we can't shoot at that angle. I mean, I was like kind of a racehorse at the time. My body was so toned. You could shoot it from every angle. But it was this delayed thing in my brain that I was a very different size to what I was. It's really weird because I'm happy with my body at all different sizes and shapes. I'm happy with it now, but I think when I was at my most athletic, athletic, they were those pivotal years where I was really not confident, very, very scared of cameras. And the thing that turned it around was actually when I was pregnant and my body started to

change size, shape, I've got a baby bump and I loved everything about it and I'd never felt so beautiful. And that was really the turning around where I could look into a camera and just go, wow, look at what this body has done. And I feel like I've taken that confidence forward with me. I think for almost any woman I know who grew up in the 90s, came of age then, as much as we might like to project an image of body confidence, I think, and I include myself in this, all of us have a trigger point that provokes disordered thinking about eating. Even if it's not disordered eating, there's for so many of us just that thought process. And it's come up for me recently because of the

prevalence of weight loss jabs. And I know I am strong, I do not need weight loss jabs. And yet, because I came of age and this particular time, and I wasn't famous in any way, shape or form, I'm thinking I should be thinner. There's part of me that will always think that. And I'm ashamed of admitting that. And I just want to pay tribute to how resilient you clearly were during that time not to let it undo you. Yeah. I don't know how I did it with some kind of mental gymnastics. I think I have that but not through eating or wanting to be thinner, but definitely with clothing and dressing, I want it to be flattering.

It has to be flattering. Do you feel beautiful now? Such an awkward question, sorry. I mean, for the avoidance of doubt, you're utterly gorgeous, beautiful, all of those things, but do you feel it? I do most of the time. I can wake up feeling a wreck. I know that if I put in a bit of effort, I'm happier with myself. But I also love those days of just being ugly, feeling like a mess and being in the worst tracksuit and just really wallowing in that.

Yes, embrace it. I like all of the, like I love the heels and the getting dressed up. But that, I think if you can love yourself when you're a mess is when you really love yourself. And I truly say that I can. MS. Going back to this constant comparison that you had to withstand with Kylie in the 90s, all the tabloids, all over it, all the time, did you ever have a conversation with Kylie about it? Because I imagine it's very difficult as siblings who love each other, but are being

pitted against each other to have that kind of honest conversation. We did. Not a lot because we didn't want to bring in, we didn't want that to take up the time that we spent together. It was definitely acknowledged and yes, it needed to be voiced, but also, I highly couldn't do anything about it. And she loves me. I'm her little sister and she loves me. So definitely acknowledged and there was nothing we could do about it. Did it ever get into your head to an extent where you did feel jealous? I think that it was just the frustration of I have done my own things and nobody sees that. And even if I explain it, nobody cares. I didn't have to have what she had,

but I've always wanted to be recognised for what I have done. Yeah. Thank you for talking about that because although not everyone can relate to global superstardom, I think so many people can relate to the complexity of a sibling relationship that is founded on this extraordinary love and acceptance. But it's also a tricky thing to navigate sometimes. Yeah, yeah. It is really tricky to navigate. It's really hard in the public and really hard in the public. And it's, you know, we're just, we're so happy that times have changed that, you know, mental health is such a priority for everyone now and that it's talked about openly. So you can actually say it was hard. And so now felt like the time and the place to be here. The new BMO VI Porter MasterCard is your ticket to more.

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Visit bmo.com slash viporter to learn more. Onto the next one because it's kind of related. We were chatting before we started recording because I revisited some of the things that you went through at the height of your X-Factor fame, and I could not believe the savagery. Again, that was something that I witnessed as a viewer, and I didn't think to question it then in the way that I do now. So I want to preface this failure by saying, I'm so sorry that I didn't see it for what it was at the time, because I'm horrified by what we all accepted. Your fourth failure, as you have humorously

put it, is your failure to impress Noel Gallagher. Oh, now why did you choose this? How did you fail to impress him? Oh, when I was on X Factor, there were comments from a lot of people that were negative to me. What is she doing there? Why is she a part of this show?

And I'd always said from the beginning, I'm with you. I do not know what I'm doing here on this panel because I was happily watching this show at home, loving the judges. And I've had that moment like, how did I get here? But I really wanted to be a part of these people getting to audition and being a part of this industry. I felt like, hey, maybe I can offer something different rather than trying to be the same.

But Noel had thrown in some comments that were so incredibly nasty. And I remember thinking, I can't believe you even know who I am, that you even care enough to even say anything. The weird thing is he hasn't stopped. It's gone on and on. But still. Yes, since X Factor, he's brought it up about how talentless and sort of insignificant, all of this kind of, and I'm like, I don't know why that bothers you. Oh, I'll tell you why. It's projection. It's the sibling thing. It's he can't

cope being eclipsed by Liam, probably. I mean- I don't know. I just- It's funny that he fancies you. I felt like, I still don't know why, but it fascinates me. And then there was a pile on Sharon Osbourne, Graham Norton. This was the thing, sorry to interrupt, but this is what really shocked me, that I went back and rewatched the Graham Norton show with Sharon Osbourne. I'm so sorry, it was so awful. It is. And Graham sets it up.

He's really rude about you. And I just totally forgot that that even happened. I think the difference was it wasn't being rude. It was, there had to be production meetings to set up the things that they were doing on set in this show. And these huge personalities that I looked up to and just loved what they had done. I'd love Sharon Osbourne on X Factor. I'd love her on the Osbournes.

I love what Graham Norton was doing. And here were these people just tearing me to pieces. That show would never be made today. No. At the time, people didn't realize how wild it was. And I remember going home and having to sit and watch it so that I knew what had happened and I could not believe my eyes. It's not just the people who are in front of the camera, it's the people who are behind the cameras, everyone that worked to create that. It is absolutely wild. So there was definitely, I think, something that had been building from me moving to England and like, you're Kylie Sisler, but you're not

as good. And just like, it is so free for all and everybody can just pile on her because that's just she's easy target. This is so easy and we will eventually win. And there was a moment in X Factor where I just felt so crushed by the industry. So I could even not just be pinning it on certain people, just the industry. I was just like, I burst into tears on the show. I knew that I was just going to have to walk off set. And all these things are going through my mind. Like you have worked so many years, you've been through so many incredibly hard things, but this has got you. And I didn't want to let down the people that I was mentoring and working with, but everyone's got their breaking point. And so I just was like, I just thank you everyone. Good night. You've all won. You've all won.

And there was some seismic shift that happened where I feel like the viewer was like waking up to what was happening. Cause just to put it into context, if you weren't around or if you can't remember it or if like me, you maybe blanked it out and you'll be appalled what you put up with when that was deemed light entertainment, you were bullied on a national scale. Your appearance was denigrated, your talent was undermined, you were insulted and it was seen as- And then that was backed up by the industry.

Tabloids and- Yeah. Yeah. So during that time, did you have any protection? Was anyone? My close friends and management and publicist, when I eventually was like, I need to have someone to look after me. And that's been fantastic. That's been a game changer.

And I think there's been enough time and space that we can all look at it and say, isn't it great we've moved on from there that it's not like that anymore? And hopefully a lot of people have learned from that. I do feel like it is so great to be a part of change in TV. And this is why I'm so passionate about the show that I'm doing now. Always keep learning. I'm always learning all the time. Like I'm not saying I know everything, but at least try. Have any of those individuals ever apologized to you? None of them. No. Well, it is a testament to your strength that you are sitting here.

I think there's a common theme that nobody's- Nobody's apologized to Danny Minogue. Maybe it's because, well, he wants to give them credit, but it's like, I think your strength is so apparent that maybe it's intimidating. I'm probably not intimidating. Probably people think it wasn't as bad as it was or it didn't affect her. It did. Yeah.

But yeah, there was definitely a point where I thought I'm stepping off this train. And you won with Matt Cardle who beat One Direction. Let's not forget that year. What would you say if your son Ethan, who is now 13, 14, if he said, I want to go into TV, I want to act and sing? Maybe he has said it. No. No, he hasn't. I honestly don't know how I feel. At the moment,

he's looking from the peripheral. I mean, it's been so much he's learned from being a kid being chased by paparazzi, not knowing who these scary men were as we're trying to get to school up until now sort of understanding so much more about it. It may happen. I just think that's not something that he wants to pursue. Looking back over your failures and your learnings, what do you think success means to you now? How would you define it? Happiness, really being clear about what happiness is to you and in the different stages of you. So like we were saying, like we look back on, you know, when we were married, like it can feel like a different person, just being true to what brings you joy and stepping into that and away from stuff that doesn't.

Final question. Do you ever do karaoke with Kylie Minogue? The two of you, the Minogue sisters? No, we don't do karaoke. I mean, we still jump around and sing to things at home, but not go to a karaoke place. I think you should. Do you think we should? Oh, I think you totally should.

And I think you should do exclusively Monogue Sister songs. Really? Yes. It would be so fun. Do you do karaoke? I love karaoke. What's your song? And I can't sing.

So my song is actually a rap track. It's Sceelos, I Wish. Oh, wow. But, oh, actually the one track I do like to sing because I think it's in my range is Cried at House, Fall at Your Feet. It's another Australian. Well, I think when you come do your next show in Australia, I think everybody would love to see you perform that.

I thought you were going to say, I will invite you to do karaoke with my sister. And I'd be like, yes, 100%. Oh, okay. I can probably make that happen too. Oh my gosh. Thank you. Thank you so much. No, but in all seriousness, thank you so much on so many levels. Thank you for giving what you give. Thanks for having so many fails. No, they're learnings. It's data acquisition. Thank you for giving so much to this podcast. I really appreciate your honesty and your vulnerability, and it has just been such a

joy talking to you. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Please do follow How To Fail to get new episodes as they land on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcasts. Please tell all your friends. This is an Elizabeth Day and Sony Music Entertainment original podcast. Thank you so much for listening.