How To Fail With Elizabeth Day - Danny Dyer - 'I’m a f**king legend or I’m a f**king disgrace. I suppose I divide people'

Episode Date: July 10, 2024

We bonded over swearing. And, although I’m not one to brag: Danny Dyer said it suits me. DANNY F***ING DYER! I mean. I know this is a podcast about failure, but surely that’s a major life achievement? Anyway, I digress… Today’s guest was born in East London and had a challenging childhood - his parents split when he was nine after his mother discovered Danny’s father had a secret family. Acting was, in many ways, his escape from everyday life. He started in his teens, and was soon acting alongside luminaries such as Helen Mirren, Mark Rylance, Daniel Craig and Derek Jacobi. In his 20s, his mentor was the playwright Harold Pinter - someone Danny considers a father figure in his life, and who he has as the screensaver on his phone. We talk about what he learned from his drug addiction and his subsequent rehab, including one panic-inducing story about being on stage and forgetting his lines after spending the night before smoking crack in New York. It’s an extraordinary tale of resilience and self-growth and I really appreciate Danny’s honesty in telling it. We also talk about what psychics say to him, his concerns over his daughter becoming famous, his royal heritage and why he might have got the wrong dog. Danny’s show Mr Bigstuff is out on Sky - Wednesday 17th July How to Fail is going on a live tour in Spring 2025, presented by Hayu! Tickets are on sale now at www.fane.co.uk/how-to-fail Have something to share of your own? I'd love to hear from you! Click here to get in touch: howtofailpod.com Production & Post Production Manager: Lily Hambly Studio and Mix Engineer: Josh Gibbs Senior Producer: Selina Ream Executive Producer: Carly Maile Head of Marketing: Kieran Lancini How to Fail is an Elizabeth Day and Sony Music Entertainment Production. Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts To bring your brand to life in this podcast, email [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Make your nights unforgettable with American Express. Unmissable show coming up? Good news. We've got access to pre-sale tickets so you don't miss it. Meeting with friends before the show? We can book your reservation. And when you get to the main event, skip to the good bit using the card member entrance. Let's go seize the night. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Visit amex.ca slash y amex. Benefits vary by card, other conditions apply. S1 So just a heads up before we start this episode, if you know Danny Dyer in any way,

shape or form, you will also know that some of the language on this week's episode of How to Fail will be on the on the ripe side. So just a heads up that if you're not up for that, or if there are any children in the room, maybe approach with caution. Welcome to How To Fail, the podcast that treats all failure as data acquisition on our path to success. I've got some very exciting news to share with you. For the first time ever, How to Fail is going on tour and will be presented by HeyU, the home of reality TV.

Each show, I'll have a very special guest sharing their three failures, so you can expect the usual uplifting, hilarious and moving conversations. Tickets go on general sale on Friday the 12th July at 10am. Head to fane.co.uk or just follow the link in the show notes. And if you are a subscriber to How To Fail, you can get free access to 24-hour priority booking on Thursday the 11th of July at 10am. I cannot wait to see you on tour. Before we begin, I just wanted to remind you about my subscriber series Failing With Friends, where Danny and I look at your questions and give our advice. To everyone out there, here's a taster. I'll put a little bit of tinted moisturiser on.

Okay. Just give me a little bit of fucking glow in the morning, I suppose. Are you wearing tinted moisturiser? Just a little drop. I don't go mad. Love it. And never have the fucking shimmer. Okay. You know, you don't want to be shimmering as a, you know, a proper geyser. It's the last

thing you fucking need. The actor Danny Dyer played the part of Mick Carter for eight years in the BBC soap East Enders. His performance won him several awards and his storylines as Mick included finding out his sister was actually his mother and being wrongfully framed for murder by a friend. But if anything, Dyer's real life is even more extraordinary. Born in Custom House East London, his parents split when he was nine after his mother discovered Dyer's father had a secret family. He began acting as a teen but was bullied for it, before winning a part in Prime Suspect at the age of sixteen. In his twenties, his mentor was the playwright Harold Pinter, who saw much of his younger self in Dire. He acted in three Pinter plays, as well as several films, including Human Traffic and

The Football Factory, which earned him a reputation for being an on-screen hard man and all-round geezer. But he also, incidentally, appeared in Andrea Arnold's short film Wasp, which won an Oscar in 2003. That's one for any pub trivia enthusiasts among you. In truth, Dyer has barely been out of work since he started auditioning. Recently he presented a documentary on Channel 4 on how to be a man and is soon to star in the hotly anticipated Disney Plus adaptation of Jilly Cooper's Rivals. But probably my favourite Danny Dyer fact is not that his daughter, also called Danny,

won Love Island in 2018, or that he once labelled David Cameron a twat on live TV. It's that he is the 22 times great-grandson of Edward III and a descendant of Thomas Cromwell as revealed when he took part in the BBC Genie Energy show Who Do You Think You Are? Do not let where you've come from define where you're going in life, Dyer has said. You can be whoever you want to be. Danny Dyer, welcome to How to Fail. What a lovely introduction. That's a nice reaction. That was really cute, really sweet.

I've been around a long time now. My career started sort of in the 90s and there's a whole generation of young people now that are so fascinated by the idea of the 90s. You know that? Yeah. I've got a 16 year old daughter and she's like, Oh my god, what was the 90s like, you know? It wasn't that long ago in my head. I know. It's actually scary thinking that something that was 1995 is like 30 years ago. In the same way that when we were younger, the 1960s was 30 years ago. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It seems completely unhinged. And I suppose we were quite fascinated by the 60s.

Yes. And the idea of that era, you know, when things changed. Yeah. Tell me a bit about that idea of not letting where you've come from define who you become, because you have had this extraordinary journey and I wonder how much classism, because there's so much classism in this country, has impacted you along the way. Well, there's a lot classism in this country, has impacted you along the way? Well there's a lot of isms, isn't there? I suppose with racism and I suppose especially

with black people, they get judged on the colour of their skin immediately, so I sort of get past that first barrier, you know, because I'm a white person, so therefore I don't get judged on the colour of my skin, but then I open my mouth and then the classism gets involved. Obviously I'm not very articulate, you know, obviously come from a family of, you know, of some sort of criminal fraternity. I really started to really feel that when I went into the theater world. Wasn't so much with the TV world, but definitely when I started to, you know,

be around theater gnats, as you'd like to call them. I was well out of my depth with just dialogue in general, especially when you do a play and then afterwards you come off stage and then you got sort of people in the bar waiting. I didn't quite know what to say to these people really. And I felt that there was always a class thing going on, but it gives me a drive and an ambition really.

I've never been to drama school. I don't want to lose who I am, the essence of who I am, because my theory on acting is that my toolbox is me and my traumas and my, you know, my truth. And so I have to dig into my box to find certain emotions and feelings. And and so I won't want to become a blank canvas, which is what you're taught at drama school, lose the accent. And then going back to the Pinter thing, that's what happened with Harold.

Harold was from East London, but Harold was told, I suppose he was an actor during the fifties and the sixties, so therefore, you know, working class people shouldn't really be on the television. Interestingly, I've just heard a stat that in the arts at the moment, there is 6% of working class people. Wow. It's at the lowest it's ever been. Something that needs to change, I feel.

Tell me a bit about your childhood and that idea of being rooted in where you come from, but not forever defined by it. You were raised by strong women, weren't you? Yeah, I was raised by strong women, absolutely. My dad left when I was quite young, so I had no real role model or father figure around me. I mean, my mother brought up three children on her own on a council estate and always did it with a smile and always had a cuddle. And that's what art as children, actually, it didn't matter that we had fuck all. It was about our currency as children.

And I noticed from having children myself, quite privileged kids, is affection and love and security. You know, so I didn't have my father for that, but I did my mother was always there. She was a great talker, a great listener. I had a matriarch in my nan, Nanny Polly, who said a lot, right? So this was a word that was around me a lot. Again, going back to the classes and things, I was only later on when I was at dinner parties and I'd use

that word. I realized that maybe if you look at the broader society, it's quite rare, that word in particular. But I always felt safe around my nan. Do you remember that moment when your mum found out that your dad had been having this affair and had another family? Yeah, I do, because she was on the phone. She got a phone call from the woman that my dad was having an affair with and she just sort of dropped to her knees crying and she had my sister in her arms. I think she knew anyway but you know it was like this really dramatic moment of you know it's a tricky one with me dad because obviously

I just made a documentary and I was worried about maybe getting a bit of backlash from maybe women's groups and stuff because I felt that the timing of trying to make a documentary about how men are struggling is probably bad timing because everybody's struggling. Anyway, I upset my dad because he googled me name and he hadn't watched the documentary yet and the press had said that I said that he was a violent man, he was never a violent man, he was just a bit shit. And it was my brother's truth, you know, it really affected me when he left. My brother not so much, he was a bit more, you know, logical about the whole situation. And even though he was younger than me, he realized that dad not being around me, and it was going to be a calmer, happy house. Whereas I just wanted my dad about, you know, I didn't understand why he wasn't there. And I sort of blame my mother for it,

because she was in front of me. Yeah. But all these traumas that I had as a kid, I think it just defines you as a human being. I wouldn't go back and change anything. I suppose this was the way it was meant to be. And I think it shaped me as a father myself, trying to do the right thing. And I did speak about my dad's upbringing in the 50s, which was really difficult for him. He was born in 55, and it was a very strict upbringing.

And so he didn't quite know how to be affectionate with his own kids. There was one moment when he was going to cross the road and he said, no, I went to hold his hand. He went, no, we don't do that anymore, boy. For some reason that stuck with me. You are very warm. Kindness kind of emanates when you meet you. That's my experience as a woman. So how did you learn how to do that? I broke the mould in a sense of I thought, well, I'm not going to do, I'm not going to be the way my dad is. I'm going to change it up a little bit and I'm going to actually probably go over

the top with affection and love. And I think because my mother was so cuddly, I was brought up with it. So I've made sure that I cuddle my son a lot because I know it makes you feel inside, it's important. And I think it's okay to be a very masculine man, but also let people feel safe around you. I'm really glad I've got my mum's sensitive side, do you know what I mean? Yeah. Quite happy to cry and stuff, I will do it. Now, annoyingly, you can't say that much about Rivals, the Disney adaptation. No, I'm desperate to start, you know, spitting loads of dialogue out about it, but I'm not allowed yet.

Can you tell us who you play? I play a character called Freddie Jones. Freddie Jones being the richest one in it, but also the most working class, because that's a lot of classes and rivals, and it's all about power and money. It's something different for me. I speak Japanese in it as well. Do you? Yeah.

There are two things that generally come up when you tell people that you're about to interview Danny Dyer. One is that you have, I don't know if you still have one giant testicle. Wow. Yeah, no, I've still got a big bollock. Have you? Why is it? Is this, yeah, I suppose I spoke about it a lot. Yeah. You mentioned it on celebrity juice. Well, I got it out. Yeah, you were meant to have it drained, I believe. Yeah. Well, it's called a hydrocell. Yeah. You mentioned it on celebrity juice. Well, I got it out. Yeah. You were meant to have it drained, I believe. Yeah. Well, it's called a hydro cell. Yeah. That's just a big bollock basically. Cause when I went to the doctors, obviously they just said, not in these words, but they just said, you've got a big bollock. You're like, I knew that

already makes sense. Well, it's cosmetic surgery whether I want to have it done or not, but okay. Yeah. It's a big nut, you know. The second thing is. Amazing. Out of all my body of work, you talk about me big bollock. Okay, good. The second thing is... Amazing. Out of all my body of work, you talk about me big bollock. Okay, good. The second thing is who do you think you are? Yeah. One of the best episodes of that program ever. Such a mad job because, you know, they offer you the job or they go, look, we'd really like to do something on you and you go, okay, fine. And then you sort of give

them some information about what you know, which is usually generally fuck all. And then they go away and they disappear and you don't need nothing for three months. And then, and I know people that they've done that with and come back and gone, yeah, sorry, we're not gonna be able to, we didn't find anything. They came back to me shaking. There was an energy and I was like, oh, okay.

Yeah, okay, so we're gonna start shooting in three weeks. And I was like, what is this? What, okay. So we're gonna start shooting in three weeks and I was like, oh, what's going on here? I never I never quite knew and the thing is you don't know what's coming So you wake up in the morning, you know, they're picking you up at nine o'clock You don't where you're going. You don't know who you're talking to you can't be playing the day in your head and They keep you in a cafe around the corner They put the mic on you and then you go around the corner and you go and meet somebody and it all plays out Live on the camera so that they don't give you no inkling of anything so who knew

you know what i've had a few professors and stuff piss on my parade since i mean if you put the article in the daily mail the daily fucking foul and then of course they encourage people to comment on it then most people will go well everyone's related to King Edward III everybody so and I go well hold on a minute because I think I was in series 10 and no and they'd never found any trail to what was it's never come up before it goes back to classes and thing how can someone like me you know potentially win the first BAFTA for who do you think you are as well although I didn't get a fucking BAFTA for it, which is weird. I stood in the queue and all the producers and the director got one, I went where's fucking mine? Come on, it's my family.

How did it make you feel about yourself and inhabiting your own skin? Did it make you feel... It gave me some sort of validation in the sense of not really the royalty thing, I couldn't give a fuck about that, more the Thomas Cromwell thing. Because I'd heard a lot about Wolf Hall and I'd worked with Mark Rylance when I was a child. He was my drama school. He was somebody that I really learned from. I worked with him when I was 17 years of age and I never come across anybody who was so unassuming and boring and shy and a bit sort of socially shit. And then when you said action, he was the most powerful fucker in the room. This presence. And I was like, Oh, I've never seen this before. Like

all my scenes were with him. Couldn't quite talk to him away from the job. Tried my artist, didn't really want to know. But then I would watch this man come alive. He had a little dictaphone and he would walk around and he would because he'd obviously give himself notes and again I've never seen any of this so it was like I could hear him like listen to this thing but the presence of between action and cut and I thought oh I love it I could see his little idiosyncrasies or the way his posture would change. And it was just a real lesson for me, seven weeks being wrapped around this man. He was my complete drama school, I would say. The Thomas Cromwell thing though,

because he's so parallel. So he then played him, right, in Wolf Hall. So I hadn't watched Wolf Hall until after I learned that he was my grandfather. 15 times great grandfather and the reason this is the beautiful thing about the whole thing is that his last act before he got his nut chopped off was he made sure that his son my 14 times great grandfather married Elizabeth Seymour sister of Jane Jane, who Henry VIII loved with all his heart, so he didn't kill his son. Otherwise he would have killed Gregory as

well and I wouldn't be here. So the fact that he kept that line going meant that then Gregory had a son and then they had a son and then they had a son and then fuck knows went wrong why I ended up on a council estate, you know what I mean? But you know, if he hadn't have done that before he was killed, then my bloodline, I wouldn't be here. It's amazing. It's totally extraordinary, especially given what we're talking about, about fathers and sons, abandonment, identity.

Like actually, this is the reason you're here. That's wild. Yeah, and then also he was from Putney. He was a working class kid, and then he went to Florence and he studied there and he learned languages and he was, you know, he was almost like, so going back to the classes and thing, I suppose, uh, it's the same thing with me. I suppose I was in a world I shouldn't have been in. I knew nothing about, but I obviously had a talent, you know,

I wasn't very good with the socializing aspect, but you know, put me on a stage and I'll stand up and I was the bravest fucker in the room. You know what I mean? I could never quite understand when I was sitting around the table, you know, doing the rehearsals and everyone's talking about subtext and shit and writing stuff down. They got journals and I was just sitting there, I'd learnt me lines. I wasn't very good at breaking down why my character's saying it because actually it's all about performance and just, you know, selling the line. So that when I was sitting with some actors, I won't name them, that were really good at writing about it and being quite dismissive of me, when they stood up, they were a bit

shit. I was like, Oh, what? So you understand what you say in the line and why it's so loaded, but yet you fucking can't deliver it. And so I would sort of quietly just sit back in my seat and go, I can't wait to get up and start playing with it and really start blocking it because that's when I can come alive. So I suppose there's similarities in a sense of, you know, Cromwell's rise and to where he got and ultimately that's what got him killed because obviously the other aristocrats around Henry hated the fact that this kid from Putney had rose and become so powerful and so they got in Henry's nut and he killed him. I've got two more questions before we get on to your failures. Have you ever been to a psychic and tried to communicate with your ancestors? Interestingly, I'm quite a spiritual person and I've had messages off of spiritualists

that say to me that they get contacted from my ancestors and the way they do it is from the time. So at least three times a day, I will randomly look at my work on my clock, and it will be 1212. Or it will be 1313. Or I did it today at 10 past 10. I just looked at the clock and it was 10 past 10. So it gives me a comfort that I feel that my ancestors are maybe looking out for me a higher power if you will and I feel what I know I'd

like to think that one of my high powers is Harold Pinter and that's why he's a screen saver on me phone. Is he? I just like having him around me you know what I mean I just I just feel that he's he was really good for me and I went off the rails when he died so there's a connection there. Yeah. But yeah I do think that they are maybe looking out for me and you know because I've got some

nutty blood I'm related to a saint as well. Are you? Which saint? Saint Louis the ninth was it? I went to France I did a follow-on from who do you think you are it's called Danny dies right world family and then we go right back to William the Conqueror and Rollo the Viking who's my last relative that they can trace me back to in 900 whatever. Amazing. We're going to talk more about Harold Pinter as one of your failures but before we get onto that Helen Mirren. So you got this part in Prime Suspect when you were 16. What was she like? She was amazing. I mean what a woman. You know I was very attracted to her. Then and now. I mean

I was 14 when I got that part and I just And one of my first ever scenes was with her. And I got thrown straight in the mix and I loved it and I never felt out of place. She said I was a really good actor and she was really kind to me. And then I did a film, I did a film, it was about 15 years later and she remembered me, a film called Green Fingers. And she went, here he is, my boy, and gave me a big cuddle and I was like, ah and she remembered me, a film called Green Fingers. And she went, here he is, my boy, and gave me a big cuddle and I was like, ah, she remembered me.

You know, and I was a grown man by then. Again, that's been my drama school. Working on people like Daniel Craig I worked with when I was really young as well, and Ben Wishow I worked with when I was really young. And I remember I did a film called The Trench, William Boyd film, and Killian Murphy was like an extra and he had a small little part. and I remember looking at him and going,

wow, he looks great, he's really good. He only had about three lines in it. And same with Ben, I remember him, I thought, wow, sometimes you come across these people, especially Daniel Craig, it's like you go, you just take little bits, you know what I mean? And that's what I've tried to do, I suppose. So your first failure is that you haven't been able to give up smoking? Yeah, yeah, shit. When did you start smoking?

About 13 and then I started smoking drugs as well. There's something about nostalgia with smoking and all because if any sort of pictures of me when I was a baby or a kid there's always an ashtray next to my head or a cigarette burning or it's something about the idea of you know used to go up the hospital and pay it'll be smoking in an hospital or on a bus or on a train or I mean when I first had a fag in front of me dad I was actually doing a thing called brother cad file and I needed a chaperone with Derek Jacobin we flew to Hungary and I remember me dad bought me in my first box Cadfile and I needed a chaperone with Derek Jacobin. We flew to Hungary

and I remember my dad bought me my first box of fags and I could smoke on the plane with him and I remember and the smoking the smoking bit was just like a curtain, wasn't it? So whether you smoked or not you was going to get a mouthful of smoke in your lungs. It's weird though I think that you know as human beings why we didn't know smoking was shit back then, you know, like in the in the 60s and that they, you'd have big billboards of doctors going smoke Rothmans or it's good for you. You know, what was the matter with our brain then that we realized this thing wasn't wasn't good for us? You know what I mean? It's only now that you go, Oh my God. And I remember when the first band came in, you know, you're not gonna be like smoking pubs

and everyone's like, yes, if that's gonna work, no one's gonna do it. Everyone done it. You know, and now it's a thing where if you do light up a fag, you really, people really do because everyone's vaping now as well. The thing about me is I vape as well.

Do you? But it's something that I need to give up. I mean, I just think every time I light one up, I go, what the fuck are you doing? Do you know what I mean? You're killing yourself. So how many do you smoke a day, I just think every time I light one up, I go, the fuck are you doing? Do you know what I mean? You're killing yourself. So how many do you smoke a day, do you think? Oh, in about 15 a day.

And what do you make, because you strike me as someone who, you believe in civil liberties, like you believe in the power of the individual to do what they want. So what do you make of kind of government initiatives to try and phase out smoking altogether? It's fucking ridiculous. I mean, none of it makes sense anyway because it doesn't work,

does it? So have you tried to give up smoking? I did a couple of times and I tried to replace it with vaping and then as soon as the vape broke I went and bought cigarettes immediately. I mean, I don't know if this is getting too deep and psychoanalytical, but I wonder if there's part of it with smoking for you, that is your connection to your past. It's part of your kind of rootedness. It's part of remembering where you're from and those interactions with your dad, because so much of your life has changed in

the most unanticipated way. Maybe it's something that's important for you in that sense. I don't know. I don't know. Maybe. It's so frustrating to me. I've lived a life. I've took a lot of drugs. I've drunk a lot. I've really lived a life and I've really fucking lived it to the full. I think it stems from just having that personality, but also the film that made me famous was a film called Human Traffic, which was all about hedonism. And I was the nuttiest fucker in it. The character that Moff was the one that everybody loved just because he was the loon. And there's a saying, nice one bruv, nice one brother, that is still going on now. It's still 20 years later, they shout at festivals through tents.

Someone sent me a video, Glastonbury last year, and people were going, nice one brother, nice one brother. And that's my saying, you know, I have lived a life. Do you think you have to live up to the idea of Danny Dyer? Maybe. Yeah. Maybe there's been a bit of that. I think with fame, you can't prepare yourself for it. There's different levels of fame. You know, I've been famous a long time now

and that's why I had a lot of fear around my daughter becoming famous because there was a while when she was more famous than me when she won Love Island, like, and I was like, was like oh god you know she's got a role with this now because you can't turn it off like a fucking tap but I feel that maybe my fame is I'm accessible to people I'm honest there's no TV fucking version of me I think you and that's why I think maybe I divide people as well because there's people out there that hate me fucking guts. I suppose anyone with fame, you're going to get that. But either I'm a fucking legend and a hero or I'm a fucking

disgrace. I suppose I divide people, but that might just be because of the nature of the way I speak or the way I present myself. I don't know. Most people that I know or that talk about you think you're a fucking legend. So I just want to say that to you. But I also want to ask whether you care. Do you care if people don't like you? I used to care, yeah. Well, it's human nature, isn't it? I think I became famous and then the social media thing came in. And then, you know, the whole Twitter thing when people could just say the most horrendous

things to you and I suppose coming from the whole Twitter thing, when people could just say the most horrendous things to you. And I suppose coming from the background I come from, I thought I'm not having it. And so, and of course they call it fishing, don't they? So they're, they're for, if you reply to someone being really nasty to you, then they've, they've won anyway, cause they put the hook out and you bit.

I never understood that. It's as I've got older, I've actually realized, and gone how much do I give a fuck about what people think about me, I'm never going to meet. And also how arrogant I might have think that everyone's got to love me. I mean, you know, if you come into this industry, you have to accept that people are not going to get it. You know what I mean?

They really go for the fucking jugular some people. And why? I suppose because they can. There's nothing social about social media. I don't think, you know, it's it's really Brought out the worst in human beings I feel And it's fucking dangerous and divisive. I mean look what's going on in the world at the moment with the atrocities and you're on one Side or the other It's always one side or the other what fucking side you're gonna pick when the fuck is you man

Are you gonna come together and we start looking after each other because we're fucking destroying the planet as well. Maybe fucking as a human race we've come as far as we're meant to come and we're all fucking just destroying ourselves now because where's the love gone? Where the fuck is the love gone? Yeah. And someone's default position being thinking the best and thinking with love rather than the default being hate and you're wrong. You're doing better than me. I hate your fucking guts and I'm going to tell you how much I

hate you. And not only do I hate you, I hate your family, I hate everything about you. Can you stop pointing at me when you say that? I'm sorry. It was like being in a Danny Guy acting masterclass. It's like that's what it's like, isn't it? With social media, it's like people pointing at you going, oh, fuck you, you're horrible. you hate what you do you're shit you know and so i don't i don't entertain it now i just don't look anymore really i think um you know i don't really give a fuck anymore i think of the people that matter directors producers they hire me so they must know what they're talking about talking about. It's Kathy Burke here. Can I ask you something? How do you want to die? Is that a bit forward?

Well you clearly haven't been listening to our podcast. Where there's a will there's a wake. Every week I have an add to some of our favourite people about their fantasy funeral and my god we've had some fabulous guests through my deathly doors, including Danny Dyer, Dawn French, and Sir Steve McQueen from Sony Music Entertainment. Where there's a will, there's a wake. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Jesse Tyler Ferguson,

host of the podcast, Dinners on Me. I take some of my favorite people out to dinner, including, yes, my Modern Family co-stars, like Ed O'Neill. I had friends in Organized Cry. Sofia Vergara. Why do you want to be comfortable? Julie Bowen.

I used to be the crier. And Aubrey Anderson-Emmons. I was so down bad for the middle of Miranda when I was like 18. You can listen to Dinners on Me wherever you get your podcasts. Tell me about your daughter, Dani, because I remember vividly that season of Love Island that she won and she came across so beautifully and as such a warm hearted, honest soul. And

clearly, as you just said, you were really worried about the fact that she was going to be at this stratospheric level of fame. How has she done since then with the fame thing? Well, when she first, I was five for the fucking year. I mean, it was a revelation to me what a wonderful human being I brought up. Because I was watching it just like a viewer. They fuck off. And that's it. You watch it every night. There's no contact from anybody. And I just thought, is this gonna pan out for her? Cause I know she's got her own insecurities and I think that she was lost at the time.

She needed some sort of validation about who she was. She'd just come out of a relationship and she was really heartbroken. And I thought throwing her into the limelight is the last thing. And also she wanted to be an actor and I thought that was gonna affect all that. Anyway, I couldn't have wrote a better script for this kid. You know, she was so honest, vulnerable. She got on with the

girls. She got on with the boys. She wore a heart on her sleeve like I do. She's funny. She's witty. You know, she's got everything going for this kid. And so I think she needed, she needed validation of who she was. I don't think she ever thinks she was going to win it, but she did. And then of course she came out. It was interesting because people like Margot Robbie and Eddie Redmayne were speaking about her in interviews. And I was like, wow, like she's really, for some reason that particular series reached everybody in the country. It was during the summer, it was the World Cup 2018. There was a real energy and vibe. And so when she came out, everyone was loving her and celebrating

her, but I knew it was going to switch because it does turn. And it was when it turned and you got these fucking assholes, you know, and they would just assassinate, you know, Danny every week and it's, and then me as well, I'd get a little bit. With Danny, you were saying that she's got three kids now, like has she made a decision just to step back from it all? Well, she found the love of her life. Jared Bowen, who's amazing, you know, someone who adores her and worships her. That's all I want as a father. I just, you know, I want someone to worship the ground that my daughter walks on and get her on the level that I get her. And I finally got that, you know. So, and he plays for West Ham, which is, I can't tell you how that makes me feel.

But you know, it's, she's got stability in her life now and a man that, you know, really does cherish her. So that makes me very, very happy. But, you know, you've got to find, you've got to find that one, haven't you? You find your one, didn't you? Even though it wasn't always plain sailing. Well, I've been with the same woman since I was 13. It's a journey. It's so rare that yes, because if you think about who you was at 13 and who you are now to grow with somebody at the same time, at the same rate. And then you throw fame in the mix and what happened with me, which I, which I, she never wanted. And she came along for this ride with me, both from the same

council estate. She didn't really sign up for that. And then on a course it fucked my head up when I became really famous and I, and I didn't quite know what to do with it. And I suppose she stood by me for a lot of shit and had to be very patient with me. And so now we get to a stage where she's quite menopausal and now it's my turn to be very patient and accommodating and try and understand that.

I mean, I can tell what mood she's in by the way she walks down the stairs, you know, the creaking of the stairs of whether it's on me today or not. And of course, I do believe in the, you know, marriage, fouls and sickness in an elf, a bit of a worse. So I've spent it, you know, it's hard, you know, to stay in a relationship for that long with the press attention and with me being a prick for many years, because I was, I'd on my hands up. I lost the plot for many years.

I didn't quite know who I was. And I suppose she had to suffer all that on a national level. So yeah, we are still together. I love her with all my heart. She challenges me every day. She's kept me very grounded. I'll tell you that now. She came to watch me in a play once and I came off stage and she went, yeah, just

don't get carried away with yourself. I thought, that's what I need to hear. Talking of that brings us onto your second failure, which is in 2001 and you were on stage in New York in Pinter's celebration and your mind blanked. We'd done the play at the Almeida celebration. Fucking amazing piece of work. And that's how you met Harold Pinter in the first place, isn't it? Because you auditioned for that. And he felt that he discovered me as well. He used to tell everyone I used to, you know, and I'd been, I've been active for eight years up to that point, but anyway, it's a great part.

It's the part of a waiter. It's set in a restaurant and it's two tables. So it cuts from one table, quite vulgar people to another table with this couple that are on a date with Leah Williams and Keith Allen's in it and Lindsay Duncan and, and I'm the waiter. So I come on with plates of hot food,

but I interject into their conversation and I go I know these big monologues and then they'll look at me and go oh and then I have this massive speech about this absolute bullshit about how my grandfather was friends with these certain poets and writers and stuff but um anyway I'd never been to New York and so when we transferred from the Almeida to the Lincoln Center in New York, I got very excited. And I took a lot of drugs out there. And this is the other thing, I'd never dried. I take it very seriously in my work and I love it.

And I always strive to be better every night. And I'd never got in a situation, I'd heard about people that had dried on stage, because it's a massive thing and all that. And it had never happened to me anyway. I thought that I could sit up all night, smoking crack that had dried on stage, you know, because it's a massive thing and all that. And it had never happened to me. Anyway, I thought that I could sit up all night, smoking crack and then walk on stage. And of course you can't fucking do that.

It's a ridiculous idea. And I interjected like I'd done, you know, many, many nights before, you know, like I've done this play so much, matinees, and I just, I didn't have a clue what to say. And the worst thing was the other actors who knew I'd been out looking at me. I come behind their little bonkette thing and I interject

and they all turned to me. So their faces are away from the audience and it was just their horror as if to go come on in prick. And that made me worse. Because I thought, oh shit, actually. And I'm not just letting myself I'm letting all that I like because it must be horrible if you're in a scene with somebody and you're doing your bit and it's going well and they dry. Because then you fucked because because they're fucking you aren't they as well it's like okay how

do we get out of this situation but yeah I just remember thinking of being very aware of what I'm doing for the first time ever questioning it going oh my god what oh my god oh everyone's looking at me waiting for me to speak I'd never had that feeling before I loved showing off and then all of a sudden it's like so me lips started to go, cause I was gonna cry. Cause I thought, you know, obviously cause I hadn't been to bed,

felt really vulnerable. And then Andy Delatorre, shouted the line out, and I snapped into this, and I did it, and I said it, and then I have to go off stage, cause I have to come back on again in a bit, and I've come off stage again,

I can't go back on, I can't, and I just did a major panic attack. But I just had to get on with it. I thought fuck you, you put yourself in this situation now, get on with it. You know and even when Keith Allen's looking at you going fuck you now mate, you know you're in trouble. And then Harold came up to me after and he sort of gave me a cuddle and that made me worse, made me cry and I was like, and he went, if ever there's an ensemble piece, it's this Danny. And I was like, yeah, fuck me. I'm sorry. But it

was a wake up call and I've done many plays since that fears never left me since. I carried on, did the play, shat myself every night. I never really used to get fear. I used to just be a bit impatient waiting to come on. Now, if I wasn't the lead in the play, you know, you sort of come on and off and I did the homecoming. That was, I was like, I can't wait to get on and show off. Then I had this other thing of like, oh God, can I do it?

Is it going to go wrong? And that never left me. So I did No Man's Land after that. We went on tour with that for six months of Colin Redgrave and John Woods. Shacked myself every night. And then the last play I did was The Dumb Waiter with Martin Freeman.

And we did that and we closed the Pinter season at the Pinter theater and that's a two hander called the dumb way. So I never leave the stage at all. Shat myself every fucking night waiting to go on. And I think I think you know you need it because it makes you feel like you're not bulletproof. And it was mine. I inflicted it on myself, but it was a major fail.

And it was something that I really did learn from. I think you've really conveyed that sense of terror and shame incredibly well. It was awful. It sounds it. I've never felt that feeling before. And then having to just go back on stage and face the fear and do it anyway. What was your relationship with drugs after that moment? Did it change that?

It did for the duration of the play. I'm not doing that again. Of course, I'd have, you know, it's still quite tricky. You know, I had many years of it after that, you know, I mean, I went to rehab in 2016. It'll just become too much for me. I just lost the sense of who I was. And I think that I just needed I just knew I needed to change something in my life drastically. And so I took it upon myself. And I think most people that do go to rehab need to take it upon themselves to go and go I need a shift. Because if you're forced into it or there's an intervention doesn't necessarily work if you're forced to go to a place and be committed to a place, it's a psychiatric unit essentially, you know,

you need to be there when your own, because otherwise you'll just go back to doing what you were doing really. And I think that was a big moment for me, because I put everything into my work. I thought I was quite good at it, and how dare I be in New York on Broadway doing a play anyway, and then I thought, oh no, I fucked that up now.

I'm quite good at pressing the fuck it button for many years. And when I had a lot of therapy in rehab, I realized it did go back to abandonment issues of strong male figures in my life. Like my dad left, that fucked my head up. Then I became really close to my granddad who died of cancer when I was 16.

You know, like six months, he got prostate cancer and then I nursed him and he just fucking deteriorated. Big strong fucking man. So that done me and then and then Harold came into my life and then he died of cancer. And I think that I learned from, well, I thought I thought, well, I'm just going to fucking press the fuck it button before they die on me or, you know, I'll beat them to it. That's what I learned in therapy, a lot of therapy and

that's what I sort of, you know, was abandonment issues for males. Do you have an important male figure in your life now? Well, I'm very close to my dad now. You know, and I do love him very much. We've had a lot of chats about how shit he was really and how regretful he is at just not being very good at, you you know doing the paternal thing. It's not easy, it's a hard job, it's a hard job. It doesn't come naturally to you. Then it's a struggle. Do you think going to rehab in a way was you like re-parenting yourself?

It was me taking ownership of my life and going, you're going to fucking die. The fuck are you doing? You're doing stupid things. It's just, you just, you know, no, no, no. I obviously had a big hole inside of me of like, why, why am I doing this? And I suppose I had a really good capacity for drugs and I never really wanted to go to bed ever. Couldn't understand why people had enough after three days, you know, just sitting up talking shit, you know, but I think I needed to take ownership of it because I could see where it was going. And so I just remember just going, you've got to go somewhere. And I had a friend who had been to rehab and had

always said to me, I've got an issue and I never believed him. And they waited for me to turn around and reach out for him. And then, and they'd sorted it out for me. And they got me somewhere. I went to somewhere in South Africa. Cause I needed to get away from this country cause I was too famous. And I didn't want to go to the Priory, which is, and I'm not knocking the Priory.

I've never been there, but I know that it's all fresh bed linen and, you know, little candles next to your bed. And I needed to sit on a fucking dorm, you know, with other addicts and scrub toilets and, you know, because they break you down completely and get rid of all my ego bollocks that I had going on at that time. We got to recognize is when your ego I mean, we need an ego. It's important, you know, because it gives us drive and ambition and

all them things. But when it's your ego making the most of the decisions you fucked someone else's success is not your failure. And your your ego which mine was fucking out of control and I was playing up to this character of whatever I created I suppose. So how do you deal with your addiction day to day? Because it's a decision every day isn't it? It's an effort every day. Today how are you dealing with it? Well I had a lot of therapy and I grew up a lot and I started to feel very grateful for my family and who I am and what I've got around me. And that's what it was about,

really, gratitude and stop beating yourself up. And, you know, our default setting is to go, oh, you're shit. Do you know what I mean? I think we all do it. We don't naturally look at ourself and go, you're the bollocks. I learned a lot from therapy. And I fucked off a lot of people in my life that needed to be fucked off. That was the truth of it.

When I went through my phone and there was hardly anybody left, I quite liked letting people leech off me. Yeah, I don't mind as long as we're taking drugs together. You know? So it was,. Yeah, I don't mind as long as we're taking drugs together. So it was, I recognized it always about acknowledging it. And so that's what it's about for me. I do drink, I don't drink to excess but I do have a little booze now and again.

So it's about just getting the balance right in your life. And it just came at the right time for me. Don't get me wrong, it's fucking hard. Ferret B is hard. You gotta face up to a lot of shit. You need to recognize when you've got anxiety and don't get anxious about being anxious. You know what I mean?

You gotta learn to sit with it. And go, oh, I feel a bit anxious and I feel a bit odd and a bit weird. But it's fine, I'm gonna breathe through it. I did a lot of breath work. You know, just the idea, just breathing, just listening to your own breath. Such a fucking powerful thing. You know, it's hard to tell people about meditation because I ain't got enough time. No, I

ain't got time. That's what people say, 10 minutes a day I do. And I don't start the day with it, I end the day with it. And it just rounds the day off for me and then I'll get in bed. The Frankies were a picture-perfect influencer family, but everything wasn't as it seemed. Infamous is covering Ruby Frankie, the world of Mormonism, and a secret therapy group that ruined lives. Listen to Infamous wherever you get your podcasts. Are you ever minding your own business and start to wonder, is the Great Pacific garbage patch real? How do the Northern Lights happen? Why is weed not legal yet? I'm Jonathan Van Ness, and every week on Getting Curious, I sit down for a gorgeous conversation with a brilliant expert to learn all about something that makes me curious.

Join me every Wednesday as we set off on a stunning journey of curiosity on a new subject, and dive into the archive of more than 370 episodes. Listen to Getting Curious wherever you get your podcasts. Your final failure is you have a dog called Debbie. But you say you don't think you should have a dog. So I married somebody who is the love of me life, but somebody who doesn't understand why a human being would want to live with an animal. You know, I'm a dog lover. And this goes back to, I had a dog when I was a kid. It was just a dog that it didn't, wasn't a breed. Anyway,

a mutt. So my dad got me this dog when I was like six or seven now. This dog was Ginger. It was called Sam. And the reason it was called Sam is that, cause I got the name wrong, is that I used to watch a thing called Monkey, which is a thing called Monkey Magic, which was about this weird. It was like a Japanese weird thing. Anyway, there was a character and it called Sandy, but I couldn't say Sandy. So I called him Sam Sammy. Anyway, this dog was ginger and it had a white mark on it on the back of it, which was a question mark.

So we're not that near the dot on his head his head anyway it wouldn't go on a lead this dog brought up on a council estate so this dog would come out with me and it would walk with me it would walk me to school and then it would fuck off home and this was a time in the 80s where dogs you'd find feral dogs on council estates like you go to certain areas and there will be a dog you know there'd be a dog don't know where it lives who the owner is it just bowls around on its own. So my dog would go out on its own and it'd meet up with another dog.

Like I'd be out with my mates sometimes and I would see my dog on the other side of the road with an Arthur burger hanging out of his mouth. I'm going, where the fuck's he going? And I watched him get run over once, he had nine lives his dog. He got attacked by a pickball once, survived that. Then he started to learn zebra crossings.

So he would wait for someone to put, there was a show called The Littlest Hobo years ago, I don't remember it. It was about a dog that used to bowl into a town and save someone's life then fuck off again. I had a fight once and he come and help me. Oh, this is so sweet. This is so sweet. I just love that he walked you to school and then would walk back.

And he would walk me to school. No lead. But then he would just, I don't know and then he would go on and he lived to his like 15 anyway so I got one shot to get a dog because my Mrs. doesn't want animals in the house and I tried getting a dog before called her treacle she was a lovely little thing and then Joe got pregnant and so we had to get rid of the dog so my sister was breeding dogs she was selling bulldogs and then so I convinced my Joe that, can I just get a dog?

Just, I just want one shot having a dog in my life. And the kids want the dog, anyway. Bulldogs, you know, cause I wanna walk and all that. I live in Epping Forest, I wanna walk around. I've got images in my head of, you know, like my old dog, you know, walking around and dogs jumping over logs and you know, it's laughing and all that sort of stuff. But actually, bulldogs are fucking useless.

They can't breathe. I mean, when I take them for a walk, it's like walking a coffee table. They've got these weird square shapes, like they're Instagram dogs. So I can't give her any human food. Like my other dog, you could give a dog a Chinese sort of spare rib and they'd really enjoy it and chew around the bone. If I give this dog, Deb's, anything

slightly human in any way, shape or form, I have nuclear waste all on my carpet. Okay. I don't even know what comes out of her ass. It is the most horrendous thing. So we've had a real mission with this dog and I'm trying to bring a dog up under Joe's boundaries. If I'm going to have a dog, of course it can come on the city and snuggle up with me. Joe doesn't want the dog in the city. So it's one of them where I've been letting the dog in the city, but then when Joe comes home, the dog's not allowed on the city. So the dog's fucking confused, am I allowed in the city today or not? And so it's got to a point

where I thought probably the best thing to do is to probably not get the dog. And every time the dog has had an accident and shat in the house, it might as well have been me having a shit in the ass. It's almost like I've brought a child into the relationship with I've had with someone else, a little hairy sort of fat child. And I'm confronted with it every day of the guilt and the shame. The other thing is this dog doesn't want to shit in one place. This dog likes walking and shit in walking and shit in walking and shit in. So you have loads of little presence in the morning. Mind you, she hasn't shat in the

ass in about six months. But so anyway, now, so now she doesn't want to go for a walk anymore. You know, so I get the lead. She goes off for fuck's sake. I'll see her little face and I go, you know, when dogs get all about a lead and that, I don't get that with this dog. So then I have to take the dog out. I don't really want to go. She don't really want to go. A man and dog walking along, both not wanting to walk. So it's all sort of backfired on me. So yeah, it's a failure on my part really. But the kids love her. I love her. It's just a bit of a sad excuse for a dog really. But the kids love her, I love her. It's just a bit of a sad excuse for a dog really.

Well sometimes love comes in surprising packages. I have adored chatting to you Danny. What's this process been like for you? How have you felt talking about your failures? Well it's weird because it seems to be a recurring theme. I did Bake Off recently and my show Stop a Cake had to be my biggest failure for fuck's sake. I've watched Bake Off many times. No talk of failures. You know so it's all talking about a failure anyway but to fucking put it into a cake that was a kick out the bollocks. Yeah but I think what comes across loud and clear with you is that you're telling the truth about yourself and I think that's what people relate to and I

never want you to change so thank you so much. Oh God bless you. You've been kind. For coming on How To Fail. You've been brilliant. And you're now going to do Failing With Friends, where you get to give dispensed advice to the listeners. Yes. Bring it on, Elizabeth. Bring it on, baby. And remember to follow us to get new episodes as they land, wherever you get your podcasts, or on Spotify, Amazon Music or Apple podcasts. And please do share a link with everyone you know. This is an Elizabeth Day and Sony Music Entertainment original podcast. Thank you so much for listening.